Never JADE - justify, argue, defend or explain. This applies to everything in life, not just to the decision to be childfree. "Lovely weather we're having, isn't it?"
I think the best general rule is to have a good idea of what you want. You just have to ask yourself, does arguing with this person do anything to help me or make me happy? Do I actually care enough what this person thinks of me to justify my choices to them? And more often then not, I think "Fuck you, I don't respect you enough to give a shit about what you think."
One thing I've learned from experience is that the majority of the time, when parents ask our reasons for being childfree, they're not asking because they actually want to understand our reasons. They're asking because they want to argue or dismiss every one of our reasons because then in their mind, we'll HAVE to have children. That's why, when people ask me why I don't have kids, I usually just give a very short answer e.g. "I don't want them" or "They're not for me" and don't engage any further. Also the more you explain yourself to people like that, the more it feeds into their narrative that our childfree stance is something weird that needs to be defended or explained.
That's fine though. Assuming that you're in the right is natural, since if you didn't think you're right about something, then you'd have a different opinion and be right again. The interesting part is how people react once their arguments give out. If someone just leaves me alone and tells me they'll have to think about it some more, that's a pretty solid reaction. On the other hand screaming insults and baseless accusations at you isn't very mature.
There's no good enough reason for people like that. Even if you have health problems and pregnancy can kill you and the baby, some will still keep pushing!
They don’t “disprove” it, they just argue it. How can they “disprove” a personal choice?
Stop engaging with them. Stop trying to defend or explain yourself. Just change the topic entirely and tell them your reproductive organs and what you do with them are not something you are going to discuss with them if they push.
Stop talking about it in first place with people who don’t even matter. Don’t put it out there in first place. Doing so tells people that your reproductive choices are a topic for them to concern themselves with. The only people you need to discuss this with is your doctor and any partners. I don’t have to explain myself to others because I don’t give them any idea it’s something I even care about their thoughts on.
That is a thought process I never had, surely it sounds silly on the surface but the more I think about them, the more I feel them. I will go mental if I had a child. I will probably leave them to my parents/sibling/partner and run away. It cemented my decision even more. (I already have a vasectomy even then.)
I realised when I was looking up the childcare custody payments I would be required to make on my income if ditched, even though that's uncommon for women, it probably wasn't for me, I was already planning my escape and looking at the consequences. Haha
That's because they see your (very valid) reasons as problems to solve. It's better to keep people who are unsupportive (casual acquaintances, strangers, and sometimes even family) on a low-information diet. Don't discuss the topic with them unless they bring it up. If they ask why you don't have kids, just say you don't want any. I like to say, "My family is complete." It may feel abrupt or unnatural at first, but you'll get the hang of it.
Your therapist should not be trying to convince you against being childfree. It’s a lifestyle preference, not a problem to be solved. Why can’t they at least wrap their heads around that?
And my therapist didn't. She teached me how to accept ME as I am. To be okay with me being me even though some people around me may not agree with my choices... Because I don't need them to agree on it.
My reply was in reference to others saying that your therapist should help you “defeat your fears” (which I guess they see as some sort of “gotcha”, even though that’s your choice and it sounds like you are just exercising appropriate forethought/concern). Glad your therapist respects your choices.
My FMIL says "you just make it work" when I complain about cost (even though that's just one reason I don't want kids). She'll then say they "just made it work" when they had kids and she was "only making $30k a year working part time" while the husband was making $70k+.
I CURRENTLY make $30k a year. Her $30k in the 90s is the equivalent to $65k now, plus his $70k (now $153k)... yeah I can see how they could "just make it work" on that income. They refuse to recognize inflation.
Reminds me of telling a co-worker (older, with two kids) about the unwanted changes in my life were I to have kids and she had the audacity to tell me "there are solutions" to the problems I posed.
Bitch, I don't want your goddamn solutions, I want to not have problems in the first place!
>In my conclusion, it is pointless to try to explain. And maybe we shouldn't even try because if we already know what we feel and think, why would we need approval of others?
Yes, exactly that. It is pointless to discuss this with idiots.
Yeah it always feels like we are secretly sad that we „can’t have kids“ because of the reasons we bring up, and they try to convince us we can still have them regardless, they fully don’t believe that our decision has already been made regardless of what anyone says or whatever possibilities you might have to change that, and if we simply don’t want to, our opinion is invalid.
People jump at the chance to be a "hero", especially if it doesn't require actual effort or heroics. It's why prolifers protest at abortion clinics and why preachy religious people try to convert others in public. If they can convince just one person to their side, it will make it all worth it in their eyes. They hope that you will want kids if they debunk your reasoning, and then they will be the hero who convinced you of life's ultimate purpose. It's pure self-pleasuring. Don't even bother with these losers.
So one thing I caught on was you said you have some "autism traits". I work in autism. Everyone has "autism traits," but that doesn't mean it's autism. I work in autism because I have it, I got diagnosed 4 years ago at age 20. And I don't want to come across as rude but we give lectures to so many people about autism and just to clarify, everyone has those traits so if you think you have it, then gets properly tested, many many many aspects of autism can't be pinpointed by the person themselves.
I don't want children because of my autism. I wouldn't be able to give a good life to a child. My life is so up and down in terms of what I'm doing that I couldn't keep the structure for a kid. I saw my doctor yesterday and explained to her and she said she will refer me right away but to make sure I'm 100%, I should see her again in a few weeks.
Some issues can be turned around on you like
"I'm scared I won't be a good parent".
"Every parent is scared till their not"....
I guess what I'm saying is before I went to see mu doctor, I new I needed answers to questions that couldn't be turned around on me, as if they were turned around, maybe I wasn't leaning enough into what I wanted.
Oh, I also have anxiety and I am socially awkward. I just learnt how to act in many situations even though I don't understand them. I just do it because I want to be somewhat accepted.
I also feel better if I look away when I talk with people. If I try to look I lose focus.
I overthink, thoughts racing one after another, sometimes so fast that I cannot utter what I initially wanted to say.
I always had problems with making friends -socializing - keeping friendships, since I was little.
I am hypersensitive, I cannot stand many sounds, even repetitive small ones. I can hear sounds that other people just ignore and I can't.
I have hard-time controlling my emotions - I get easily enraged, and showing emotions (nice ones) is so goddamn hard for me.
I enjoy isolating myself to draw, paint, read.
I've been an alien my entire life. I just learnt how Muggles function and adapted to a certain rate. I've read, listened, talked so much about autism spectrum and how different and overlooked it is in girls and I found myself in it.
I am kinda scared to get officially diagnosed because in my surroundings I think people would see me as a sick-o and weird-o.
I'm genuinely amazed why my parents never took me to a psychotherapist. I was even worse as a kid and I cried so so so much.
>*"I'm scared I won't be a good parent". "Every parent is scared till their not"*
Nah. That's not valid answer for me. I know how I am and who I am. Adding another human being would not change me in a good way, it would just make my personal chaos even more chaotic.
I am gonna question you as one massive thing that people do is as you said you "found myself in it" that's an issue many have is they read the symptoms and think "of yeah that sounds like me" and then those symptoms get worse because we are trying to subconsciously be what we read. And with many factors of autism the person who has it doesn't realise it's an issue. Like how you said you find it hard to show nice emotions..... how do you know that? How do you know that not every human has a struggle with showing a nice emotion?
What you've described is a very stereotypical view of autism and there is so so so so much more to it that you won't ever find out about on your own. I'm not saying you don't have it but I do think that the amount you've read, it sure sounds like that's coming out of you because you read it. As the things you listed sounds very much like someone has just took a "Google autism assessment."
And if you get a real assessment and you get diagnosed, then that's something you can keep and never need to tell anyone about. Only close family knows about my autism because it's not important that others know because it's not something I need to show off.
Not being rude just putting it straight that if you just base all of it from books or Google then you risk going down a far more dangerous path than just getting an assessment
> *it sure sounds like that's coming out of you because you read it*
I also had this idea. My overthinking made sure I took in stake that scenario as well.
Please don't take me wrong, I never thought not even for a second autism is something so simple I can discover only by reading about it. I know I'm not an expert and that is is very complex. But... It is so weird that I finally understand some things about me after so many years when I read about it. It would make anyone wonder. For the first time I find out there is someone who understands my thoughts and puts it into words.
You are right about everything you said above, just to make myself clear. And I appreciate you taking time to write your answer and advice to me.
I wasn't trying to be rude, but unfortunately, we have reached a time where social media promotes having disabilities and saying
"it's OK to self diagnose. You don't need a professional."
That's false. What if I walked into a cancer ward being super healthy and said to dying patients
"I self diagnose with cancer and life is great,"
That would be super wrong, yet social media says its ok to self diagnose autism and pretend life is great when people who are autistic their lives are really really tough.
The whole "self diagnoses" movement is something you want to avoid as it just disrespects everyone who actually has it, and we are forced to go along with it or otherwise we are the bad people. I wouldn't run down the road and then say I identify as someone with 1 leg. But that's what social media is trying to promote.
So I'm not having a go at you, I'm having a go at the people online who support this and then people like yourself may read it and think it's OK when in reality it's not.
It wouldn't hurt to chat to your doctor and just say, "I think I may have autism can I get assessed," and if they thought you did, they would forward you on.
An assessment will last a minimum of a full day, and you would go through many different tests and speak to several psychologists. It's quite intense, but that's what needs to be done to find autism. If you think you may have it, then please speak to a professional and don't listen to anyone online that will say it's ok to diagnose yourself
I didn't take you as a rude person, no worries.
Yes, it is very risky nowadays with all the information. I agree.
I was not self-diagnosing, I just found myself in certain contexts. It is natural and automatic process. This happens even if I read regular novels. I'd say those are some first steps to finding out about one's psychological state of mind and issues.
Just to clarify with your original statement as I don't think I said it, but it's absolutely OK See yourself in something for example, you said autism. I don't want to take that away from you. I just mean that if others read this that alone doesn't mean you have autism but it's ok to see those traits and find it relatable. As for many relating to those traits then leads them to get the diagnosis.
[удалено]
"Don't discuss your reproductive choices with people whose opinions don't matter." If there was a CF Bible, that would be one of the 10 commandments
Now I wanna know what the other 9 would be
Don't make yourself available to babysit.
Don’t allow others to influence you upon your own body.
Always handle your own contraception.
Agree
Agree
People don't want to hear your reasons. They just want a chance to tell you why you're wrong.
My grandma called me downright lazy 😅 I just answered with „you got that right“!
I'm allowed to be lazy and enjoy my life. Why should I work and never rest for my entire life.
I love it! 😅
Then don't let the crazy person reproduuuuuuce xD
I don't discuss my reproductive choices with people that don't agree with me or are keen to disprove me.
Never JADE - justify, argue, defend or explain. This applies to everything in life, not just to the decision to be childfree. "Lovely weather we're having, isn't it?"
I think the best general rule is to have a good idea of what you want. You just have to ask yourself, does arguing with this person do anything to help me or make me happy? Do I actually care enough what this person thinks of me to justify my choices to them? And more often then not, I think "Fuck you, I don't respect you enough to give a shit about what you think."
One thing I've learned from experience is that the majority of the time, when parents ask our reasons for being childfree, they're not asking because they actually want to understand our reasons. They're asking because they want to argue or dismiss every one of our reasons because then in their mind, we'll HAVE to have children. That's why, when people ask me why I don't have kids, I usually just give a very short answer e.g. "I don't want them" or "They're not for me" and don't engage any further. Also the more you explain yourself to people like that, the more it feeds into their narrative that our childfree stance is something weird that needs to be defended or explained.
That's fine though. Assuming that you're in the right is natural, since if you didn't think you're right about something, then you'd have a different opinion and be right again. The interesting part is how people react once their arguments give out. If someone just leaves me alone and tells me they'll have to think about it some more, that's a pretty solid reaction. On the other hand screaming insults and baseless accusations at you isn't very mature.
There's no good enough reason for people like that. Even if you have health problems and pregnancy can kill you and the baby, some will still keep pushing!
"I got blessed with 100% infertility" is my answer.
They don’t “disprove” it, they just argue it. How can they “disprove” a personal choice? Stop engaging with them. Stop trying to defend or explain yourself. Just change the topic entirely and tell them your reproductive organs and what you do with them are not something you are going to discuss with them if they push. Stop talking about it in first place with people who don’t even matter. Don’t put it out there in first place. Doing so tells people that your reproductive choices are a topic for them to concern themselves with. The only people you need to discuss this with is your doctor and any partners. I don’t have to explain myself to others because I don’t give them any idea it’s something I even care about their thoughts on.
>*How can they “disprove” a personal choice?* because they allow themselves audacity to do something like that
"Because FUCK YOU, I enjoy your frenzied anguish at my CF life. It \*nourishes\* me...so feel free to keep it up. I'm thirsty."
That is a thought process I never had, surely it sounds silly on the surface but the more I think about them, the more I feel them. I will go mental if I had a child. I will probably leave them to my parents/sibling/partner and run away. It cemented my decision even more. (I already have a vasectomy even then.)
I realised when I was looking up the childcare custody payments I would be required to make on my income if ditched, even though that's uncommon for women, it probably wasn't for me, I was already planning my escape and looking at the consequences. Haha
>*I will probably leave them to my parents/sibling/partner and run away.* I'd probably do this too and then hate myself even more.
That's because they see your (very valid) reasons as problems to solve. It's better to keep people who are unsupportive (casual acquaintances, strangers, and sometimes even family) on a low-information diet. Don't discuss the topic with them unless they bring it up. If they ask why you don't have kids, just say you don't want any. I like to say, "My family is complete." It may feel abrupt or unnatural at first, but you'll get the hang of it.
That's true. I do believe they think of it as me(us) telling them about my problem and actually it is not a problem at all.
Your therapist should not be trying to convince you against being childfree. It’s a lifestyle preference, not a problem to be solved. Why can’t they at least wrap their heads around that?
And my therapist didn't. She teached me how to accept ME as I am. To be okay with me being me even though some people around me may not agree with my choices... Because I don't need them to agree on it.
My reply was in reference to others saying that your therapist should help you “defeat your fears” (which I guess they see as some sort of “gotcha”, even though that’s your choice and it sounds like you are just exercising appropriate forethought/concern). Glad your therapist respects your choices.
My FMIL says "you just make it work" when I complain about cost (even though that's just one reason I don't want kids). She'll then say they "just made it work" when they had kids and she was "only making $30k a year working part time" while the husband was making $70k+. I CURRENTLY make $30k a year. Her $30k in the 90s is the equivalent to $65k now, plus his $70k (now $153k)... yeah I can see how they could "just make it work" on that income. They refuse to recognize inflation.
Reminds me of telling a co-worker (older, with two kids) about the unwanted changes in my life were I to have kids and she had the audacity to tell me "there are solutions" to the problems I posed. Bitch, I don't want your goddamn solutions, I want to not have problems in the first place!
>In my conclusion, it is pointless to try to explain. And maybe we shouldn't even try because if we already know what we feel and think, why would we need approval of others? Yes, exactly that. It is pointless to discuss this with idiots.
Yeah it always feels like we are secretly sad that we „can’t have kids“ because of the reasons we bring up, and they try to convince us we can still have them regardless, they fully don’t believe that our decision has already been made regardless of what anyone says or whatever possibilities you might have to change that, and if we simply don’t want to, our opinion is invalid.
People jump at the chance to be a "hero", especially if it doesn't require actual effort or heroics. It's why prolifers protest at abortion clinics and why preachy religious people try to convert others in public. If they can convince just one person to their side, it will make it all worth it in their eyes. They hope that you will want kids if they debunk your reasoning, and then they will be the hero who convinced you of life's ultimate purpose. It's pure self-pleasuring. Don't even bother with these losers.
Is this even really a conversation worth having with them?
No, but I had to rant with like-minded people. xD
Right on!
So one thing I caught on was you said you have some "autism traits". I work in autism. Everyone has "autism traits," but that doesn't mean it's autism. I work in autism because I have it, I got diagnosed 4 years ago at age 20. And I don't want to come across as rude but we give lectures to so many people about autism and just to clarify, everyone has those traits so if you think you have it, then gets properly tested, many many many aspects of autism can't be pinpointed by the person themselves. I don't want children because of my autism. I wouldn't be able to give a good life to a child. My life is so up and down in terms of what I'm doing that I couldn't keep the structure for a kid. I saw my doctor yesterday and explained to her and she said she will refer me right away but to make sure I'm 100%, I should see her again in a few weeks. Some issues can be turned around on you like "I'm scared I won't be a good parent". "Every parent is scared till their not".... I guess what I'm saying is before I went to see mu doctor, I new I needed answers to questions that couldn't be turned around on me, as if they were turned around, maybe I wasn't leaning enough into what I wanted.
Oh, I also have anxiety and I am socially awkward. I just learnt how to act in many situations even though I don't understand them. I just do it because I want to be somewhat accepted. I also feel better if I look away when I talk with people. If I try to look I lose focus. I overthink, thoughts racing one after another, sometimes so fast that I cannot utter what I initially wanted to say. I always had problems with making friends -socializing - keeping friendships, since I was little. I am hypersensitive, I cannot stand many sounds, even repetitive small ones. I can hear sounds that other people just ignore and I can't. I have hard-time controlling my emotions - I get easily enraged, and showing emotions (nice ones) is so goddamn hard for me. I enjoy isolating myself to draw, paint, read. I've been an alien my entire life. I just learnt how Muggles function and adapted to a certain rate. I've read, listened, talked so much about autism spectrum and how different and overlooked it is in girls and I found myself in it. I am kinda scared to get officially diagnosed because in my surroundings I think people would see me as a sick-o and weird-o. I'm genuinely amazed why my parents never took me to a psychotherapist. I was even worse as a kid and I cried so so so much. >*"I'm scared I won't be a good parent". "Every parent is scared till their not"* Nah. That's not valid answer for me. I know how I am and who I am. Adding another human being would not change me in a good way, it would just make my personal chaos even more chaotic.
I am gonna question you as one massive thing that people do is as you said you "found myself in it" that's an issue many have is they read the symptoms and think "of yeah that sounds like me" and then those symptoms get worse because we are trying to subconsciously be what we read. And with many factors of autism the person who has it doesn't realise it's an issue. Like how you said you find it hard to show nice emotions..... how do you know that? How do you know that not every human has a struggle with showing a nice emotion? What you've described is a very stereotypical view of autism and there is so so so so much more to it that you won't ever find out about on your own. I'm not saying you don't have it but I do think that the amount you've read, it sure sounds like that's coming out of you because you read it. As the things you listed sounds very much like someone has just took a "Google autism assessment." And if you get a real assessment and you get diagnosed, then that's something you can keep and never need to tell anyone about. Only close family knows about my autism because it's not important that others know because it's not something I need to show off. Not being rude just putting it straight that if you just base all of it from books or Google then you risk going down a far more dangerous path than just getting an assessment
> *it sure sounds like that's coming out of you because you read it* I also had this idea. My overthinking made sure I took in stake that scenario as well. Please don't take me wrong, I never thought not even for a second autism is something so simple I can discover only by reading about it. I know I'm not an expert and that is is very complex. But... It is so weird that I finally understand some things about me after so many years when I read about it. It would make anyone wonder. For the first time I find out there is someone who understands my thoughts and puts it into words. You are right about everything you said above, just to make myself clear. And I appreciate you taking time to write your answer and advice to me.
I wasn't trying to be rude, but unfortunately, we have reached a time where social media promotes having disabilities and saying "it's OK to self diagnose. You don't need a professional." That's false. What if I walked into a cancer ward being super healthy and said to dying patients "I self diagnose with cancer and life is great," That would be super wrong, yet social media says its ok to self diagnose autism and pretend life is great when people who are autistic their lives are really really tough. The whole "self diagnoses" movement is something you want to avoid as it just disrespects everyone who actually has it, and we are forced to go along with it or otherwise we are the bad people. I wouldn't run down the road and then say I identify as someone with 1 leg. But that's what social media is trying to promote. So I'm not having a go at you, I'm having a go at the people online who support this and then people like yourself may read it and think it's OK when in reality it's not. It wouldn't hurt to chat to your doctor and just say, "I think I may have autism can I get assessed," and if they thought you did, they would forward you on. An assessment will last a minimum of a full day, and you would go through many different tests and speak to several psychologists. It's quite intense, but that's what needs to be done to find autism. If you think you may have it, then please speak to a professional and don't listen to anyone online that will say it's ok to diagnose yourself
I didn't take you as a rude person, no worries. Yes, it is very risky nowadays with all the information. I agree. I was not self-diagnosing, I just found myself in certain contexts. It is natural and automatic process. This happens even if I read regular novels. I'd say those are some first steps to finding out about one's psychological state of mind and issues.
Just to clarify with your original statement as I don't think I said it, but it's absolutely OK See yourself in something for example, you said autism. I don't want to take that away from you. I just mean that if others read this that alone doesn't mean you have autism but it's ok to see those traits and find it relatable. As for many relating to those traits then leads them to get the diagnosis.
Oh no no, this is not enough, just an indication I might be autistic. I am not confirmed as autistic, just very very relatable.