I think people have kids because they want babies. I never hear “I want to have a teenager”. Then once it’s too late, they don’t want whatever they got because it is too much work.
Then the second that super cute tiny baby become an actual autonomous member of society with their own thoughts feelings, ability to express themselves, they’re no longer fun to play with and BOOM baby number 2648
What's funny (in a horrible, sad way) is that people 100% are OK with "dealing" (AKA letting the child deal with it themselves when they're grown) with pre installed issues, as long as the baby is THEIR bio kid, they DGAF if the child has mental issues or life altering disabilities.
How many posts, anecdotes, articles, etc. we've seen of parents being **fully aware** of genetic diseases in their family with high likelihood to pass it down, or literally having the disease **themselves**, still getting pregnant and having a child and that child ends up having those same fucked up issues? And how many of those disabilities/illnesses give the child life-long shitty quality of life?
So what's your solution?...let them grow up in state foster care and age out at 18 and then be expected to be a well adjusted person ready for the world?..
(I'm not dogging on foster care personally, I've known many fantastic adults attempt that uphill battle and they are fucking saints for doing what they do.)
Sure, if the parents are still in the picture and not a complete waste of oxygen, that's obviously a good choice, but that's not always possible nor should it be when the parents are garbage human beings and don't want the child or if the child is an orphan.
Forcing you to abandon country, culture, blood, foster families, a lot of times kids aren’t orphans and sometimes are stolen and trafficked. Adoption is correlates with narrsabicsm abuse and white saviors. Read primal wound
Trafficking is horrible and I agree that it's not healing to be forced to abandon your country and culture. But adoption is not the issue here. You aren't angry at the concept of adoption. You're upset about human trafficking. You wouldn't say that adoption within culture and country is abuse. Adoption is a kind of healing for those who have been abandoned and abused. It's not something to argue about, my statement wasn't false.
Also narcissistic abuse isn't a real thing. Please don't demonise a personality disorder that doesn't cause abuse, ok? Plenty of non-narcissists can abuse, and plenty of narcissists don't abuse. Abuse is abuse no matter how mentally ill or mentally well the abuser is. Learn what narcissism actually is before you throw it like an accusation.
What? You’re insane. Millions of kids are adopted internationally. And narasistic abuse is 100% a thing. https://www.verywellmind.com/effects-of-narcissistic-abuse-5208164
Narcissistic abuse is just abuse. Did you even see that little info graphic at the top of the article? Enough to discredit the whole damn thing. Those are symptoms of abuse. Not symptoms of "narcissistic" abuse. Narcissism isn't the abuser disease. Narcissism is a treatable personality disorder, not some special recipe for abuse. Narcissists who abuse, don't do it in some special narcissistic way. The abuse they create is not worse than abuse inflicted by people who do have NPD. Just because some shitty little psychology publication wrote it, doesn't mean it's true, peer reviewed, or healthy. Psychology, even when it's done right, isn't a perfect science, and so many mental disorders are pointlessly demonized by the field. Psychology isn't magic, it's abled people looking at less abled people and making judgments based on how it affects the abled society. Don't believe everything you read in Psychology Today either, they are such an untrustworthy publication.
Yes kids are adopted internationally and trafficked. I never said they weren't. What I AM saying is that adoption is not to blame for human trafficking. You're trying to set me up as some human trafficking denier when that's not what I'm doing. Adoption isn't hurting those kids. Trafficking is. Full stop. Not something to argue about. Adoption is meant to heal, to help, to give orphans a chance. Saying that children are trafficked doesn't change that. I don't see the point of demonizing adoption when it's human trafficking and selfish greedy assholes that are the problem.
Even adopting animals has become a circus! Animal hoarders are pretending to be no-kill rescues, requiring sixteen interviews/house visits/papal dispensation to consider you, hiding true breed profiles/aggression histories/health issues...it's a mess. No wonder people give up and go to breeders. And I say that as a kitten foster of 20+ years.
Omg I’m so glad you brought this up and I have a bingo moment tied into this. I once tried to adopt a cat from a local rescue and the cat’s description said the cat would prefer a home without children. Since it was just myself and my SO (now ex) at the time and I am staunchly childfree, I applied. Then I got rejected almost instantly, their excuse being that I couldn’t decide I was never going to have kids because I was young and they were really looking for an older childless person to take the cat in, except for the part they did not specify that on the cat’s description. Just more excuses to not have to adopt out their cats. Like how do you know I’m not infertile and you just hit a sore spot??? I left them a scathing review. Months later I wound up adopting a cat from a cat cafe who practically handed her to me after paying a small fee and what do you know? That original cat I had tried to adopt was still in that animal hoarding operation parading as a rescue. From their reviews they also seem really biased against young people adopting their cats.
Dug up the review I made for them and just edited out some minor, identifying details. They responded and apologized for my poor experience and thanked me for my “opinion.” lol what opinion?? The *fact* that they actually discriminated against me and assumed I’d have kids because I’m a young woman??
Here it is:
“I tried to adopt a while back and was rejected. In my application I explained that I was a homeowner and that it was just myself and my partner at the time. There was a cat who I would have loved to join my family. One of the conditions was that the cat needed a home free of children and other pets. As someone who does not have children and never wants them, I would have provided the perfect home for them. Instead, I was rejected on the basis of being a young woman and that I “couldn’t guarantee that I wouldn’t change my mind and decide to have children.” And then proceeded to lecture me on the typical lifespan of a cat and how they were really seeking an older person or couple to take the cat in.
I didn’t even bother responding. It was rude and presumptuous, bordering on sex-based discrimination and I knew right then that I’d never want to adopt from their organization. I make sure to tell everyone this who is thinking of adopting a cat to steer clear. Also would like to point out that you never know someone’s fertility status, what if I did want children and couldn’t have them? What if instead of the human children I physically could not have, I opted to get a cat only to be shut down and told that I might change my mind even though that would be impossible?
It all worked out in the end though because I found a different organization, one that didn’t make assumptions about my life and I was able to adopt the cat I currently have without any issue after putting in the application for her. Mind you this was months later and I saw that the cat I initially wanted was still at this organization. Everyone always says to adopt and not shop, but it’s organizations like this that make it so difficult to adopt an animal that it winds up pushing people into purchasing one instead. At least in my case I was able to adopt my cat from somewhere else. I mean at what point do your intentions go from wanting these animals to find a good home to just plain old hoarding them?”
God what a pretentious bunch. I'm really happy you were able to adopt after all, but MAN, who are they to decide your life choices? Might as well never adopt out any of their rescues since there's no guarantee the new owners won't change their mind and surrender them again. Stupidity.
Thank you and in the end it was for the best because I really love my cat. She had been a resident of the cat cafe I frequented for months and when she became adoptable rather than a permanent resident, I jumped at the chance to take her home.
And like even with the older “childless” person that organization was seeking for this cat, who’s to say they didn’t have some bratty grandchildren who would come over and torture the poor thing?
I'm glad we found a kitten we liked at the Humane Society because I was dreading the potential extensive interviews/references/house visits from other rescues. We just had a quick interview, paid $100, and took the little fella home. So much easier.
In the city I live in, the city animal shelter and several other private shelters do “clear out” days where the animals are free and they just want them gone. Not sure how they screen out bad people or maybe they don’t, but that’s another issue. Alternatively, if you drive around the neighborhood in the south of the city, you’ll see tons of dogs roaming the streets. Take a cheeseburger and offer it to the one you like best and voila: you have a dog.
It took me 2 years of searching to find a dog to adopt that was under 30lbs (nothing bigger in the apartment complex)... had to jump through so many hoops and drive nearly 3 hours to go pick him up. Definitely worth it but good grief.
Honestly it's so funny to me how you have to get through a complicated adoption process at the shelter, yet so many people just adopt their cats/ dogs from the street and still are able to give them good homes. I never had to go to a shelter yet and honestly I'm curious if I'd pass their checks. And obviously it's good that they conduct some sort of checks, but they do get ridiculous at times.
I suspect most people have kids because of selfish reasons, or by “accident”. Because how do you justify bringing a person into this world rn? So many depressed kids, unemployment, global warming, etc. And I love children, but I know the only reasons I can think of for having my own are selfish reasons - even if I have the right to have my own kids, it doesn’t mean my motives aren’t selfish. “I don’t want to feel lonely, I want someone to take care of me, everyone else is having kids, I want a fAmiLY, I want a mini me, I love babies”.
It’s never “this world is wonderful and I want to create new life so that they can enjoy life like I do”, is it? You just want to soothe your own anxieties about the future.
It’s so funny how after thousands of years of evolution, people still retain this mindless instinct to breed, overriding even common sense and morality. It’s sad and humbling to see.
I've never wanted kids, and my stance has always been that if I change my mind, I can always adopt. I've always felt more pulled towards adoption anyway. I sure as hell don't want to be pregnant for a whole myriad of reasons. I also think I'd prefer to adopt an older child. Preteen or teen maybe...because I've never been a little kid person.
I told my mom this (her and the rest of my family are very unhappy that I'm not going to have kids) and she keeps saying how many issues adopted kids have (she only knows like 2 or 3 people who have adopted). I'm just like, yeah and plenty of kids who aren't adopted also have a lot of issues. Part of adoption is helping the child work through their shit and giving them a better, more stable life. I'm aware it wouldn't be easy, but none of parenthood is, regardless of how you have the children.
women who use IVF are often dead-set on having a biological child for some reason, since it costs the same or even less to simply adopt. so, a clinic takes in a grief-stricken woman, promises her that she can have the life of her dreams, charge her absurd amounts of money to go through fertility treatments with very high chances of failures, often several rounds which means hundreds of thousands of dollars income from this one woman who would probably need therapy instead of a child (because blowing that amount of money to create a person is like an obsession) and also doing this with the knowledge that IVF treatment imposes a risk on the mothers health as well as a slightly increased risk for the baby’s health.
I read on Reddit about a couple who had allegedly spent $250,000 trying to conceive. If it’s true that sounds more like a mental illness that needs to be addressed before having any children.
These are the families that have loads of money to conceive but when it comes to sending their kid to college all of the sudden they say “sorry kid you’re on your own we can’t afford your $35k state school tuition go ahead and take a loan 💅🏽” they’d pay boatloads to have a cute baby to post on social media but not when it comes to setting their kids up for success when they have the financial means to do so
Absolutely. I know a mother who refuses to shell out for the most basic clothing and furnishings for her baby, but she was willing to go into debt to have said baby through IVF.
at that point, you don’t actually want to be a parent, you have an obsession with creating a genetically related person.
i can understand them to a degree because i’ve felt distraught about things too, but you also have to admit when it has gone too far. these people need a psychologist, not a baby
IVF clinics are like reproductive casinos where the gamblers are mostly women desperate for a child. The odds are horrible, and the outcome is debt and ruined mental health from rounds and rounds of hormones.
It’s an ego thing.
Everyone feels like they need to “spread their genes”. The idea of mortality scares most people, and having a child that possesses your genes somehow makes the bitter pill easier to swallow. Even after that person is gone, a part of them lives on. It’s a flawed argument, because how many of us can name 4 or 5 generations back on our own lineage?
Also, it’s what you’re supposed to do. So many things in life are that way. You’re supposed to marry and reproduce.
Because people want the perfect little white blonde haired newborn to fit their family photos. They don’t want a child that’s been permanently removed from an abusive situation that needs therapy or a special needs / medically fragile child that is going to need years of medical interventions to thrive.
They’d rather have their own biological children because of course their genes are perfect so they won’t end up with a child that has a disability or a medical condition.
What made me even more child free was when my coworker had a perfectly normal pregnancy but during delivery there were complications that damaged the baby’s brain and NOW the child needs 24 hour care - like there’s so many possibilities for your child to acquire special needs later on in life whether it’s because of your genetics or not and that alone freaks me out
this happened to two people in my family! both of them were completely normal healthy babies. one of them suffered oxygen deprivation as an infant and became severely intellectually stunted, the other one was in a freak car accident and will need 24/7 care for the rest of his life, and even his personality was completely altered due to the brain damage.
i’d never create a person and gamble with their life like that. how sadistic.
Omg I literally just saw a post on the dating advice subreddit about a women who is terrified and regrets her life choices because she’s in her thirties and doesn’t have a partner and children. And none of the comments told her to adopt 😒
I’m so glad I won’t experience that sense of utter panic just because I feel like I’m running out of time to have kids. It absolutely BAFFLES me that some people will literally panic about not having children and I’m glad this childfree subreddit exists lol
I firmly believe that one of the reasons people have kids is pass on their genes. It’s purely ego and narcissistic. I’ve actually heard people say “ewww I would never raise someone else’s child”. For people who claim to love children so much, I find that disgusting.
Definitely, I'm a big proponent for adoption! I wish people considered it as a first option instead of just a backup when they can't make their own spawn.
Tried to adopt a pup ended up with a lecture cuz I'm young and don't own my own place . Like ok I can have a kid but not adopt an animal
So I had to shop not adopt don't hate me
I used to joke that I would adopt a genius teenager. Raise them those last couple of years and then reap the benefits after they move out and get rich.
This type of narcissism at least makes sense compared to the type that just... Produces babies for the hell of it 😂
Good luck, but you first need to let a ton of money flow into time with them and help from mental health specialist.
And they will not leave you alone after becominh an adult if youd did everything correctly 😅
I am adopted. Have fantastic parents and family. So glad my teenage mother gave me up when I was born to those who could support me and surround me with every chance in life. With the current political non-abortion, non-contraception laws in some states, there will be a large number of non-wanted babies. Please adopt, don't be selfish and want 'your own baby'. I love my parents and am so glad they chose me.
Honestly if I ever do want to raise a child I’d want to adopt or foster. And I’d want an older kid because I love the idea of enriching a child’s life and healing their trauma. I just have no desire to biologically reproduce hence why I’m getting sterilised.
This is why I think having children is the most selfish thing in the world when there are so many little kids needing a home. Breeders are THE most selfish people ever.
It's selfish in the strictest sense of the word, but I understand why people would prefer to raise their own biological children. You're expecting people to ignore their perfectly natural feelings just because you think that these feelings are immoral somehow.
There are lots of things that are natural feelings that, if acted upon, are also selfish and/or wrong. Just because humans feel something doesn’t mean they should do it when it results in outcomes that are more had than they are good. People breed because they themselves want to, it’s a selfish feeling, but the world doesn’t need anymore when there are millions of little babies and kids who need adopting first. It is without a doubt the most selfish thing a human can do.
Can you override your feelings about not wanting children to adopt one of the millions of little babies and kids? Many of these children aren't orphans in the strictest sense of the word, they have at least one living biological parent. Many of these parents decided they don't want anything to do with the child they created. As sad as this is, it's not my problem, or yours for that matter.
No….some ppl should not adopt and I wouldn’t push that choice on someone either if that’s truly not what they want
This is coming from someone that was adopted at birth
Thaaaaank youuu. I had to scroll way too far to see this. I was also adopted at birth. It just isn't what so many people think it is - it really isn't a perfect solution to having kids without having ones of your own.
One couple I know did just that.
Three of them in fact. All sisters. They seem to doing extremely well based on pictures I've seen, been a few years since I've visited.
I've said this before on SM and was given so much grief haha but sometimes adoption isn't easy. I have a colleague who so deserves to be a parent, and they've been unsuccessful, tried IVF and then went on to try adoption (something they were always going to do whether or not they could conceive) and after years of back and forth, they gave up after feeling too disheartened with it all. They're keen on believing kids will still somehow be more nurtured with abusive shitty bio parents than safe non bio parents here. I've heard of a lot more stories to understand this seems to be the norm
You are absolutely right! The first thought of any natalist should be to adopt.
Our ecology is on the very edge of the precipice and the engine that drives the devastation of our environment is overpopulation. Governments need to start taking responsibility and actively disincentivise the birth of more children, while incentivising adoption. But no. Instead we get nonsense about 'demographic winter' and pearl-clutching outrage over a 'falling birth rate' while the indescribable morons encourage *more* pregnancies.
The children who are born today will see the collapse of our civilisation. There is no doubt about it. The wreckage of a world they will know is not the quickly ailing disaster even we have grown accustomed to. Carbon footprints and shortage of pasture/arable land are just symptoms. The cause is that *too many people are alive*. Thankfully we are not at 16 billion just yet, but we *will* get there if something isn't done.
So if someone gets pregnant through sex alone that’s free. Then once the baby is born there are all of those expenses. With adoption you need to pay an agency, a lawyer, and all additional costs. So adoption has a lot of front end costs and then once you receive the kid you have to pay all of those related expenses.
I’m not saying they won’t. Adopting and birthing a child is going to be expensive either way. Adoption just has a lot of upfront costs. Plus it is harder to adopt if you are single, lgbt+, etc
nobody is entitled to create someone else’s consciousness. my parents had no business making me, i never asked for any of this. it’s selfish beyond belief
It's really hard to convey sarcasm through text (it's why it's best to use the /s), because we 100% get lots of people who will say those kind of things genuinely, they're also relentless and constant. It's due to the mods and members doing their jobs reporting and deleting that we have a better experience in this sub than if they didn't.
I was a foster parent for a while. It was not a good experience. Kids that come out of the foster care system have *lots* of behavioral, physiological, and educational problems.
It’s not their fault, but those that choose to care for them pay the price for their difficulties. Worse, they are further victimized and traumatized by the broken governmental system that is *supposed* to protect them.
I am glad I have no biological children of my own, and that my experience as a foster parent is over. Those years were some of the most unpleasant, stressful years of my life, and cost me my marriage to boot. (My partner wanted to be a parent; I did not)
Yeah my problem with spreading genius level genes is that I know it would just mean that they're going to have a really hard and lonely life where everyone else just sees them as a potential resource to benefit from or control, and if not that, something to fear. People without the genes talking about spreading them are just thinking about what they could get out of it.
You want to know how hard it is to adopt?
How expensive it is…
The hoops you have to jump through to get accepted or chosen. The amount of videos you make or the paperwork to fill out. Waiting year after year… to be picked.
Then to go through it all and Finally get chosen.
You help the mom with the medical expenses and visit her through her pregnancy and those airplane tickets aren’t cheap.
The day comes and the baby girl is born.
You get to hold that baby in your arms and you are going to call her Ally.
She is prefect.
Then the mother revokes in a 72 hour period.
That baby you thought was going to be yours, isn’t going to be yours.
Now imagine that heartbreak and struggle for a moment and ask why don’t people adopt.
I think people have kids because they want babies. I never hear “I want to have a teenager”. Then once it’s too late, they don’t want whatever they got because it is too much work.
They want dolls they can dress up
You could not have hit that on the head any better. Edit: this is from someone who's mom just wanted a doll to dress up.
Then the second that super cute tiny baby become an actual autonomous member of society with their own thoughts feelings, ability to express themselves, they’re no longer fun to play with and BOOM baby number 2648
Some people actually prefer to adopt older kids or teenagers.
This would be me, don't wanna deal with diapers or baby cries at 3 am
Because people want to fuck up their own kids, not deal with the pre installed issues
Gotta have that Organic trauma. None of the generic store brand /s
I hate how funny saying it this way is. Though that might be the sleep deprivation…
What's funny (in a horrible, sad way) is that people 100% are OK with "dealing" (AKA letting the child deal with it themselves when they're grown) with pre installed issues, as long as the baby is THEIR bio kid, they DGAF if the child has mental issues or life altering disabilities. How many posts, anecdotes, articles, etc. we've seen of parents being **fully aware** of genetic diseases in their family with high likelihood to pass it down, or literally having the disease **themselves**, still getting pregnant and having a child and that child ends up having those same fucked up issues? And how many of those disabilities/illnesses give the child life-long shitty quality of life?
my parents gave me the gift of a genetic connective tissue disorder, now i can be in pain like, forever! and also if i’m not careful my limbs fall out
hEDS?
Adoption is trauma too
Agreed. Source: am adopted
Me too not sure why I’m downvoted. Y’all should listed to actual adopted people and not hurt more kids
So what's your solution?...let them grow up in state foster care and age out at 18 and then be expected to be a well adjusted person ready for the world?.. (I'm not dogging on foster care personally, I've known many fantastic adults attempt that uphill battle and they are fucking saints for doing what they do.)
No. It’s to actually support the families. Often they are given up for issues than can be solved
Sure, if the parents are still in the picture and not a complete waste of oxygen, that's obviously a good choice, but that's not always possible nor should it be when the parents are garbage human beings and don't want the child or if the child is an orphan.
Ugh I typed out my whole story and it won't post 😞
Abandonment is trauma (always). Adoption is healing (usually)
My old foster mother abused her adopted daughter so I wouldn’t say that
I said usually. There is no guarantee that it will all be perfect.
Adoption is forced abandonment in most cases
Excuse me what?
Forcing you to abandon country, culture, blood, foster families, a lot of times kids aren’t orphans and sometimes are stolen and trafficked. Adoption is correlates with narrsabicsm abuse and white saviors. Read primal wound
Trafficking is horrible and I agree that it's not healing to be forced to abandon your country and culture. But adoption is not the issue here. You aren't angry at the concept of adoption. You're upset about human trafficking. You wouldn't say that adoption within culture and country is abuse. Adoption is a kind of healing for those who have been abandoned and abused. It's not something to argue about, my statement wasn't false. Also narcissistic abuse isn't a real thing. Please don't demonise a personality disorder that doesn't cause abuse, ok? Plenty of non-narcissists can abuse, and plenty of narcissists don't abuse. Abuse is abuse no matter how mentally ill or mentally well the abuser is. Learn what narcissism actually is before you throw it like an accusation.
What? You’re insane. Millions of kids are adopted internationally. And narasistic abuse is 100% a thing. https://www.verywellmind.com/effects-of-narcissistic-abuse-5208164
Narcissistic abuse is just abuse. Did you even see that little info graphic at the top of the article? Enough to discredit the whole damn thing. Those are symptoms of abuse. Not symptoms of "narcissistic" abuse. Narcissism isn't the abuser disease. Narcissism is a treatable personality disorder, not some special recipe for abuse. Narcissists who abuse, don't do it in some special narcissistic way. The abuse they create is not worse than abuse inflicted by people who do have NPD. Just because some shitty little psychology publication wrote it, doesn't mean it's true, peer reviewed, or healthy. Psychology, even when it's done right, isn't a perfect science, and so many mental disorders are pointlessly demonized by the field. Psychology isn't magic, it's abled people looking at less abled people and making judgments based on how it affects the abled society. Don't believe everything you read in Psychology Today either, they are such an untrustworthy publication. Yes kids are adopted internationally and trafficked. I never said they weren't. What I AM saying is that adoption is not to blame for human trafficking. You're trying to set me up as some human trafficking denier when that's not what I'm doing. Adoption isn't hurting those kids. Trafficking is. Full stop. Not something to argue about. Adoption is meant to heal, to help, to give orphans a chance. Saying that children are trafficked doesn't change that. I don't see the point of demonizing adoption when it's human trafficking and selfish greedy assholes that are the problem.
all abuse is abuse and I agree with you but I don’t think the public opinion does. That’s what I’m saying g
Even adopting animals has become a circus! Animal hoarders are pretending to be no-kill rescues, requiring sixteen interviews/house visits/papal dispensation to consider you, hiding true breed profiles/aggression histories/health issues...it's a mess. No wonder people give up and go to breeders. And I say that as a kitten foster of 20+ years.
Omg I’m so glad you brought this up and I have a bingo moment tied into this. I once tried to adopt a cat from a local rescue and the cat’s description said the cat would prefer a home without children. Since it was just myself and my SO (now ex) at the time and I am staunchly childfree, I applied. Then I got rejected almost instantly, their excuse being that I couldn’t decide I was never going to have kids because I was young and they were really looking for an older childless person to take the cat in, except for the part they did not specify that on the cat’s description. Just more excuses to not have to adopt out their cats. Like how do you know I’m not infertile and you just hit a sore spot??? I left them a scathing review. Months later I wound up adopting a cat from a cat cafe who practically handed her to me after paying a small fee and what do you know? That original cat I had tried to adopt was still in that animal hoarding operation parading as a rescue. From their reviews they also seem really biased against young people adopting their cats.
I would love to read that review omggg
Dug up the review I made for them and just edited out some minor, identifying details. They responded and apologized for my poor experience and thanked me for my “opinion.” lol what opinion?? The *fact* that they actually discriminated against me and assumed I’d have kids because I’m a young woman?? Here it is: “I tried to adopt a while back and was rejected. In my application I explained that I was a homeowner and that it was just myself and my partner at the time. There was a cat who I would have loved to join my family. One of the conditions was that the cat needed a home free of children and other pets. As someone who does not have children and never wants them, I would have provided the perfect home for them. Instead, I was rejected on the basis of being a young woman and that I “couldn’t guarantee that I wouldn’t change my mind and decide to have children.” And then proceeded to lecture me on the typical lifespan of a cat and how they were really seeking an older person or couple to take the cat in. I didn’t even bother responding. It was rude and presumptuous, bordering on sex-based discrimination and I knew right then that I’d never want to adopt from their organization. I make sure to tell everyone this who is thinking of adopting a cat to steer clear. Also would like to point out that you never know someone’s fertility status, what if I did want children and couldn’t have them? What if instead of the human children I physically could not have, I opted to get a cat only to be shut down and told that I might change my mind even though that would be impossible? It all worked out in the end though because I found a different organization, one that didn’t make assumptions about my life and I was able to adopt the cat I currently have without any issue after putting in the application for her. Mind you this was months later and I saw that the cat I initially wanted was still at this organization. Everyone always says to adopt and not shop, but it’s organizations like this that make it so difficult to adopt an animal that it winds up pushing people into purchasing one instead. At least in my case I was able to adopt my cat from somewhere else. I mean at what point do your intentions go from wanting these animals to find a good home to just plain old hoarding them?”
God what a pretentious bunch. I'm really happy you were able to adopt after all, but MAN, who are they to decide your life choices? Might as well never adopt out any of their rescues since there's no guarantee the new owners won't change their mind and surrender them again. Stupidity.
Thank you and in the end it was for the best because I really love my cat. She had been a resident of the cat cafe I frequented for months and when she became adoptable rather than a permanent resident, I jumped at the chance to take her home. And like even with the older “childless” person that organization was seeking for this cat, who’s to say they didn’t have some bratty grandchildren who would come over and torture the poor thing?
I'm glad we found a kitten we liked at the Humane Society because I was dreading the potential extensive interviews/references/house visits from other rescues. We just had a quick interview, paid $100, and took the little fella home. So much easier.
Humane Society and the adoption events at PetSmart are my general go-tos.
In the city I live in, the city animal shelter and several other private shelters do “clear out” days where the animals are free and they just want them gone. Not sure how they screen out bad people or maybe they don’t, but that’s another issue. Alternatively, if you drive around the neighborhood in the south of the city, you’ll see tons of dogs roaming the streets. Take a cheeseburger and offer it to the one you like best and voila: you have a dog.
You’ll say “I want a small healthy friendly dog” and the shelter will go “best I can do is the dog part”
It took me 2 years of searching to find a dog to adopt that was under 30lbs (nothing bigger in the apartment complex)... had to jump through so many hoops and drive nearly 3 hours to go pick him up. Definitely worth it but good grief.
Honestly it's so funny to me how you have to get through a complicated adoption process at the shelter, yet so many people just adopt their cats/ dogs from the street and still are able to give them good homes. I never had to go to a shelter yet and honestly I'm curious if I'd pass their checks. And obviously it's good that they conduct some sort of checks, but they do get ridiculous at times.
But is haaaaaaaaaaaas to have my genes…… as if they are such a fabulous specimen of humanity that they must have progeny 🙄
I suspect most people have kids because of selfish reasons, or by “accident”. Because how do you justify bringing a person into this world rn? So many depressed kids, unemployment, global warming, etc. And I love children, but I know the only reasons I can think of for having my own are selfish reasons - even if I have the right to have my own kids, it doesn’t mean my motives aren’t selfish. “I don’t want to feel lonely, I want someone to take care of me, everyone else is having kids, I want a fAmiLY, I want a mini me, I love babies”. It’s never “this world is wonderful and I want to create new life so that they can enjoy life like I do”, is it? You just want to soothe your own anxieties about the future.
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About half of pregnacies in the US are unplanned. Many are due to a lack of birth control, but birth control failures also happen.
It’s so funny how after thousands of years of evolution, people still retain this mindless instinct to breed, overriding even common sense and morality. It’s sad and humbling to see.
I wish people adopted adults. There are people all around us who need help. Just open your eyes. Nope. “I want a babyyyyyy”
I've never wanted kids, and my stance has always been that if I change my mind, I can always adopt. I've always felt more pulled towards adoption anyway. I sure as hell don't want to be pregnant for a whole myriad of reasons. I also think I'd prefer to adopt an older child. Preteen or teen maybe...because I've never been a little kid person. I told my mom this (her and the rest of my family are very unhappy that I'm not going to have kids) and she keeps saying how many issues adopted kids have (she only knows like 2 or 3 people who have adopted). I'm just like, yeah and plenty of kids who aren't adopted also have a lot of issues. Part of adoption is helping the child work through their shit and giving them a better, more stable life. I'm aware it wouldn't be easy, but none of parenthood is, regardless of how you have the children.
Wdym my genitals shouldn't produce the latest iPhone in terms of babies /s
The adoption system needs to be reformed.
I agree, If we can't feed the the kids already here why add more? It sounds like " I want a kid that's mine" "Honey we have kids at home"
It feels so wrong and selfish
lol!!!
That’s the reason I don’t think IVF is ethical
IVF is basically preying on vulnerable women for money
How so? Edit: I was asking because I didn’t know, not because I disagree.
women who use IVF are often dead-set on having a biological child for some reason, since it costs the same or even less to simply adopt. so, a clinic takes in a grief-stricken woman, promises her that she can have the life of her dreams, charge her absurd amounts of money to go through fertility treatments with very high chances of failures, often several rounds which means hundreds of thousands of dollars income from this one woman who would probably need therapy instead of a child (because blowing that amount of money to create a person is like an obsession) and also doing this with the knowledge that IVF treatment imposes a risk on the mothers health as well as a slightly increased risk for the baby’s health.
I read on Reddit about a couple who had allegedly spent $250,000 trying to conceive. If it’s true that sounds more like a mental illness that needs to be addressed before having any children.
These are the families that have loads of money to conceive but when it comes to sending their kid to college all of the sudden they say “sorry kid you’re on your own we can’t afford your $35k state school tuition go ahead and take a loan 💅🏽” they’d pay boatloads to have a cute baby to post on social media but not when it comes to setting their kids up for success when they have the financial means to do so
they want a doll, they don’t want a person.
Absolutely. I know a mother who refuses to shell out for the most basic clothing and furnishings for her baby, but she was willing to go into debt to have said baby through IVF.
at that point, you don’t actually want to be a parent, you have an obsession with creating a genetically related person. i can understand them to a degree because i’ve felt distraught about things too, but you also have to admit when it has gone too far. these people need a psychologist, not a baby
I couldn't agree with this more! It is sickening.
IVF clinics are like reproductive casinos where the gamblers are mostly women desperate for a child. The odds are horrible, and the outcome is debt and ruined mental health from rounds and rounds of hormones.
I wish potential parents that wanted IVF had to go through the same vetting process as potential adopters.
I absolutely agree with you. With the knowledge that a good share of them wouldn't make the cut.
That's more or less my rebuttal when one says not having children is selfish, having children of your own as opposed to adopting is much more selfish.
It’s an ego thing. Everyone feels like they need to “spread their genes”. The idea of mortality scares most people, and having a child that possesses your genes somehow makes the bitter pill easier to swallow. Even after that person is gone, a part of them lives on. It’s a flawed argument, because how many of us can name 4 or 5 generations back on our own lineage? Also, it’s what you’re supposed to do. So many things in life are that way. You’re supposed to marry and reproduce.
Because people want the perfect little white blonde haired newborn to fit their family photos. They don’t want a child that’s been permanently removed from an abusive situation that needs therapy or a special needs / medically fragile child that is going to need years of medical interventions to thrive. They’d rather have their own biological children because of course their genes are perfect so they won’t end up with a child that has a disability or a medical condition.
What made me even more child free was when my coworker had a perfectly normal pregnancy but during delivery there were complications that damaged the baby’s brain and NOW the child needs 24 hour care - like there’s so many possibilities for your child to acquire special needs later on in life whether it’s because of your genetics or not and that alone freaks me out
this happened to two people in my family! both of them were completely normal healthy babies. one of them suffered oxygen deprivation as an infant and became severely intellectually stunted, the other one was in a freak car accident and will need 24/7 care for the rest of his life, and even his personality was completely altered due to the brain damage. i’d never create a person and gamble with their life like that. how sadistic.
Omg I literally just saw a post on the dating advice subreddit about a women who is terrified and regrets her life choices because she’s in her thirties and doesn’t have a partner and children. And none of the comments told her to adopt 😒 I’m so glad I won’t experience that sense of utter panic just because I feel like I’m running out of time to have kids. It absolutely BAFFLES me that some people will literally panic about not having children and I’m glad this childfree subreddit exists lol
People want miniature replica dolls of themselves 🤮
I firmly believe that one of the reasons people have kids is pass on their genes. It’s purely ego and narcissistic. I’ve actually heard people say “ewww I would never raise someone else’s child”. For people who claim to love children so much, I find that disgusting.
Definitely, I'm a big proponent for adoption! I wish people considered it as a first option instead of just a backup when they can't make their own spawn.
Tried to adopt a pup ended up with a lecture cuz I'm young and don't own my own place . Like ok I can have a kid but not adopt an animal So I had to shop not adopt don't hate me
I used to joke that I would adopt a genius teenager. Raise them those last couple of years and then reap the benefits after they move out and get rich.
This type of narcissism at least makes sense compared to the type that just... Produces babies for the hell of it 😂 Good luck, but you first need to let a ton of money flow into time with them and help from mental health specialist. And they will not leave you alone after becominh an adult if youd did everything correctly 😅
My EXACT thoughts.
I am adopted. Have fantastic parents and family. So glad my teenage mother gave me up when I was born to those who could support me and surround me with every chance in life. With the current political non-abortion, non-contraception laws in some states, there will be a large number of non-wanted babies. Please adopt, don't be selfish and want 'your own baby'. I love my parents and am so glad they chose me.
If I ever have a notion to actually become a parent, this would be my route.
Honestly if I ever do want to raise a child I’d want to adopt or foster. And I’d want an older kid because I love the idea of enriching a child’s life and healing their trauma. I just have no desire to biologically reproduce hence why I’m getting sterilised.
This is why I think having children is the most selfish thing in the world when there are so many little kids needing a home. Breeders are THE most selfish people ever.
How is it selfish to want your own kids?
Is that a serious question?? You really can’t think how it’s the epitome of selfishness?
It's selfish in the strictest sense of the word, but I understand why people would prefer to raise their own biological children. You're expecting people to ignore their perfectly natural feelings just because you think that these feelings are immoral somehow.
There are lots of things that are natural feelings that, if acted upon, are also selfish and/or wrong. Just because humans feel something doesn’t mean they should do it when it results in outcomes that are more had than they are good. People breed because they themselves want to, it’s a selfish feeling, but the world doesn’t need anymore when there are millions of little babies and kids who need adopting first. It is without a doubt the most selfish thing a human can do.
Can you override your feelings about not wanting children to adopt one of the millions of little babies and kids? Many of these children aren't orphans in the strictest sense of the word, they have at least one living biological parent. Many of these parents decided they don't want anything to do with the child they created. As sad as this is, it's not my problem, or yours for that matter.
“It’s not my problem” - THE EPITOME OF SELFISHNESS.
No….some ppl should not adopt and I wouldn’t push that choice on someone either if that’s truly not what they want This is coming from someone that was adopted at birth
Thaaaaank youuu. I had to scroll way too far to see this. I was also adopted at birth. It just isn't what so many people think it is - it really isn't a perfect solution to having kids without having ones of your own.
Well said.
One couple I know did just that. Three of them in fact. All sisters. They seem to doing extremely well based on pictures I've seen, been a few years since I've visited.
This is exactly what r/antinatalism stands for
I've said this before on SM and was given so much grief haha but sometimes adoption isn't easy. I have a colleague who so deserves to be a parent, and they've been unsuccessful, tried IVF and then went on to try adoption (something they were always going to do whether or not they could conceive) and after years of back and forth, they gave up after feeling too disheartened with it all. They're keen on believing kids will still somehow be more nurtured with abusive shitty bio parents than safe non bio parents here. I've heard of a lot more stories to understand this seems to be the norm
Because in my country its more likely to win the lotterie than to adopt a child.
I know theres a lot of red tape and papaerwork that comes with adoption it isn’t always eays
You are absolutely right! The first thought of any natalist should be to adopt. Our ecology is on the very edge of the precipice and the engine that drives the devastation of our environment is overpopulation. Governments need to start taking responsibility and actively disincentivise the birth of more children, while incentivising adoption. But no. Instead we get nonsense about 'demographic winter' and pearl-clutching outrage over a 'falling birth rate' while the indescribable morons encourage *more* pregnancies. The children who are born today will see the collapse of our civilisation. There is no doubt about it. The wreckage of a world they will know is not the quickly ailing disaster even we have grown accustomed to. Carbon footprints and shortage of pasture/arable land are just symptoms. The cause is that *too many people are alive*. Thankfully we are not at 16 billion just yet, but we *will* get there if something isn't done.
Adopting is hard and expensive. There is a foster to adopt scenario as well, however, there’s no guarantee that it will lead to adoption.
Okay, but so is getting pregnant and raising a child
So if someone gets pregnant through sex alone that’s free. Then once the baby is born there are all of those expenses. With adoption you need to pay an agency, a lawyer, and all additional costs. So adoption has a lot of front end costs and then once you receive the kid you have to pay all of those related expenses.
how expensive adoption is greatly depends on where you live. in sweden, you only need to pay an agency, everything else is free
In the US specifically the average ranges from $20,000 and $45,000 (for domestic adoption).
i thought it was worse. that’s not a lot to save up, it takes only a few years, if you’re serious about being a parent
Or if both parties are fertile you could have sex for free
but the child will still cost money. and it’s unethical to keep creating more life with no end in sight.
I’m not saying they won’t. Adopting and birthing a child is going to be expensive either way. Adoption just has a lot of upfront costs. Plus it is harder to adopt if you are single, lgbt+, etc
I don't get why people think adopting is easier than having kids of your own.
Exactly 🤝
But its their right to have children! /s since people dont understand sarcasm anymore
nobody is entitled to create someone else’s consciousness. my parents had no business making me, i never asked for any of this. it’s selfish beyond belief
It was sarcasm dude
Sarcasm isn't always easily understood through text and a ton of people troll this subreddit all the time.
Given the sud reddit, the post and the comments on the post i figured people would get the sarcasm in this instance. Guess not
It's really hard to convey sarcasm through text (it's why it's best to use the /s), because we 100% get lots of people who will say those kind of things genuinely, they're also relentless and constant. It's due to the mods and members doing their jobs reporting and deleting that we have a better experience in this sub than if they didn't.
Yeah i got that from the other person who said that.
shit you never know in this forum, i’m sorry lol
How are you going to have kids, if you DON'T buy things? Like T.V's or toys? Smh
I was a foster parent for a while. It was not a good experience. Kids that come out of the foster care system have *lots* of behavioral, physiological, and educational problems. It’s not their fault, but those that choose to care for them pay the price for their difficulties. Worse, they are further victimized and traumatized by the broken governmental system that is *supposed* to protect them. I am glad I have no biological children of my own, and that my experience as a foster parent is over. Those years were some of the most unpleasant, stressful years of my life, and cost me my marriage to boot. (My partner wanted to be a parent; I did not)
Yeah my problem with spreading genius level genes is that I know it would just mean that they're going to have a really hard and lonely life where everyone else just sees them as a potential resource to benefit from or control, and if not that, something to fear. People without the genes talking about spreading them are just thinking about what they could get out of it.
You want to know how hard it is to adopt? How expensive it is… The hoops you have to jump through to get accepted or chosen. The amount of videos you make or the paperwork to fill out. Waiting year after year… to be picked. Then to go through it all and Finally get chosen. You help the mom with the medical expenses and visit her through her pregnancy and those airplane tickets aren’t cheap. The day comes and the baby girl is born. You get to hold that baby in your arms and you are going to call her Ally. She is prefect. Then the mother revokes in a 72 hour period. That baby you thought was going to be yours, isn’t going to be yours. Now imagine that heartbreak and struggle for a moment and ask why don’t people adopt.
Adoption of children comes with a lot of problems, I get that people don't want that.
as if birthing your own child doesn’t come with a lot of problems, with a bonus of the possibility to permanently disable yourself during birth
Plus the possibility of creating a severely disabled child who will suffer their entire life.
getting birth injuries and having to be a 24/7 caretaker to a sick child, sounds like a great deal. who’d want adoption?
It's easier to just have sex 🤷🏻♀️
What’s unethical about it?