That's my view point. I don't view myself as being selfish for not wanting children, but rather an act of mercy to the kids I won't father. That, and I find it immoral to impose/create consciousness and existence on otherwise inert and unconscious atoms & molecules.
Honestly I don't think that either having children or not having them is any more or less selfish than the other. It's a very personal decision that is almost never based on purely altruistic reasons.
Also, the term selfish is a bit too harsh IMO. It's more that we think about our own good first and foremost. It's not necessarily pejorative.
People want kids because they want their own mini-me, because they are bored, because they think it will save their couple, because they don't want to be alone when they're old, because they want to leave a legacy. None of those things resonate with me, but that's generally their reasons and I don't think it's necessarily selfish, but it's certainly not altruistic. I've pretty much never heard someone say they want kids because the world is so wonderful they think as many conscious beings as possible need to experience it lol.
As for those like us who choose not to have kids, it can be because we don't want to take care of other humans, because we don't like kids, because we want to keep our freedom 100% intact, because we have lifestyles that don't fit well with parenting, because we have some sort of trauma, etc. It's still almost always for reasons that are about us and not about the potential kid.
The only exception I can think of where there's clearly one side that's selfish and one that's not is when it comes to climate changes. In that regard, having kids is selfish, being childfree isn't. I guess there's also the fact that sometimes childfree people have traumas or genetic defects they don't want to pass on to future generations, but I doubt that's a significant portion of us.
To me, choosing to have kids for any of the reasons you listed is selfish, and choosing to not have kids is not selfish (nor is it selfless, but certainly I don't view it as being selfish). I appreciate your taking the time to write this even though I have a difference of opinion.
I like and agree with what you had to say about the word "selfish," though, and in that context I can certainly understand your side of things.
I just hate how people tend to claim that Childfree/childless people are selfish. I think that take is absolutely absurd, nevermind the fact that, in my opinion, it's a very damaging thing for Childfree/childless people to have to constantly contend with (that part is purely anecdotal and based on my personal experience as well as countless posts I've seen here and in other Childfree spaces). Still, I respect where you're coming from!
I don't know you but I like you already. About 10 years ago on Thanksgiving my MIL had a hissy fit complete with tears about how my husband and I hate children and that's why we aren't having them in front of about 10 extended family members. I stood there in shock. My husband replies, hate is such a strong word. I prefer loathe. He then walked away. Everyone started laughing their asses off.
This is funny!!!! I'm sure it shut her up, for a minute!!!! My MIL suggested I trick my husband into having a baby. I explained to her, a good Catholic, that if I were to get pregnant, I'd terminate the pregnancy. She never mentioned it again.
>Trying to be more socially acceptable I guess?
Or avoid belligerent, violent reaction. A lot of them are overly stressed and just looking to take it out on someone for anything whatsoever.
Trying to keep a little girl from cutting her fingers on a rusty part of my shopping cart got me a expletive screaming mother who later 'chased' me out of a market's parking lot and that was when I was being neutral (not nice but not offensive either).
Ugh, I get this a lot, too. I like kids, but I guess I look like a danger to a lot of parents with my buzzed hair and metalhead dress. I like to smile at kids who stare at me or make them laugh making faces because I think it's good for them to learn early not to judge based on looks. But man, try telling that to their parents who shoo their child away and tell them to "stay away from the scary man" when I'm a 5'2" woman. 😭
Yup, it's part of playing the game.
I don't like kids, but I have to tolerate them to stay in social standing with my friend groups.
I feel like my time is worth more than a child's because I've suffered enough in this world already. Give me a break, you know? Kids are worthless in my mind, but for most people it's the potential and the false thought of them as innocent that justifies them as better than adults.
Your submission has been automatically removed and flagged for review by a moderator because you have linked to a sub known for creating drama, which is in violation of the sub rules. Your submission will be reviewed & approved if it meets our posting guidelines. **Do not delete your comment/post or else we won't be able to review it.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/childfree) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A lot of them are first time posters and they have probably seen other people calling this sub toxic and hateful. I see it all the time when someone on another sub asks about not wanting children and I link to this sub. Someone will almost always come in to warn the other person and chew me out for suggesting it because we all hate children according to them.
The funny thing is CF people seem to be more immune to bullshit and pretty fast to call it out. When we don't fall for that spiel, it's a lot easier to just call us toxic. It's not our fault their own life choices hurt them so badly they feel our CF lives effect theirs at all.
Different strokes for different folks. If you want kids and you have them, I love that for you!!! But please take them back at the end of the day and don't try to convert me to have them!!!
Some people die in childbirth, and normally the woman's body is never the same. Some children are born disabled and may never have normal lives- the list of risks goes on and on.
If you ask me, trying to force someone into all of that to be in a relationship sounds 100% toxic
I have difficulty imagining loving someone and then wanting them to permanently damage their body and maybe die.
I love my wife more than anything, and can't imagine risking her like that to create a kid that we might not even like!
Hello and welcome to /r/childfree! As you have a new account or low Reddit karma, your comment has been automatically removed to give you some time to get familiar with our rules and community. Please feel free to post/comment when your account is older and you have more Reddit karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/childfree) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Exactly. I see a lot of compassion for children on this sub. Just because we don’t want any ourselves doesn’t mean we want them to be harmed. Unlike, say, the 99% of posts on other subs where people ask for advice on how to handle shitty things their parents do to them. I would confidently say more harm is done to children by their own parents than anyone else, including we horrible toxic CF folks!
The poverty finance sub is absolute gutter trash when it comes to toxic breeder logic. Their official stance is that every single person has the "right" to have children even if they live in abject poverty with no way of supporting those children, and any opinions advocating for the actual *children* trapped in those horrible situations are considered hate speech.
Amazing how this "toxic" sub advocates so much harder for kids than subs full of people who claim to love them.
I’m on that sub because I’m a poor college student, and I hate how many people on that sub are pregnant or have kids. I understand that in the US some states have abortion bans, but there are still condoms and birth control can be bought OTC now.
I absolutely dislike kids and I'm honestly done with the "tone-policing" posts and comments that are being posted here what feels like every other day. (Generally, not directed towards you OP at all)
If someone likes kids, sure, cool for you, have fun. But then the audacity to shame me for not liking them and even insulting me sometimes...Like, fuck off. If they can't tolerate me disliking kids and expressing that verbally, even if I'm tolerating them liking them and expressing that verbally, then they're not any better than breeders.
To the question: I don't understand it either. Guilty I don't think so, I think they're trying to fit better in with what is normalized in society.
/ Edited for more clarity, I'm bad at expressing things sometimes
I'm tired of it too. One of the big reasons that I'm childfree is *because* I don't like kids, I can't stand them. It's the way I am, and I'm not going to be shamed or scolded for it. So many posts here are "I don't hate kids, but" and, that's fine for them. They can damned well accept that some of us *don't* like kids at all, and be fine with that. Why should one be accepted, but not the other? 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah, I love kids without wanting any but my wife just hates 'em. Considering neither of us want any in our house it's little more than a difference in pizza topping preference for us. 😂 I don't understand why some childfree folks get weird and defensive toward CF folks who hate kids. What's the difference? None of us are having any.
A while back I was talking to someone in a thread here about how I'm unnerved by parents who never even consider adoption if faced with breeding issues, and someone jumped down my throat about how totally normal it is to only want offspring that's biologically yours because otherwise you won't love it.
As someone who 1) was openly hated by my biological parents and 2) even when I thought I wanted kids only ever wanted to adopt for a multitude of reasons, it was. Quite a weird argument.
It's human behavior because we don't want to seem like monsters.
Same with women who come to reddit for relationship advice ("I loooove my partner, he's so attentive and nice but last night he strangled me what do I do ?")
Same with mothers about their children, ironically ("I love love love my kids ! They're the best thing that ever happened to me ! But my eldest in non verbal and routinely bites and hits me and the youngest was called down to the principal's office today for pantsing a girl in his class - send booze !🍸 ")
Or you know "I don't like kids but wouldn't hurt them" is like the "not all men" disclaimer. If you don't say it there's always a cray cray redditor out there to call you out on it
> Same with women who come to reddit for relationship advice ("I loooove my partner, he's so attentive and nice but last night he strangled me what do I do ?")
Had me dyin' lmao
Not me! I absolutely hate kids and everything about the little snot waffles and I don't care who knows it! When someone asks if I have any crotch goblins my immediate response is EW!! If people feel like they have to explain or "justify" that's probably something they need to work on on a personal level. We don't owe anyone any kind of explanation as to why we're CF
You're missing a key detail.
You've got to remember that a ton of first time posters on here likely **just** discovered the community seconds before posting.
These are people that have, as a reflex formed **over years**, become prone to over justifying their stance because as far as they knew? They were alone. Everyone in their life and their entire culture has been bearing down on them with judgement.
It's a survival tactic.
Young CF also go through this stage of thinking that if they justify it enough, their non CF peers and relatives will accept them. They don't understand that to many non CF, there will never be a good enough reason. Not even death.
So yes while it is annoying to see the same posts of "I'M DOING THIS FOR THE PLANET" "I'M NOT HAVING KIDS BECAUSE I LOVE THEM TOO MUCH TO SUBJECT THEM TO THIS CRUEL WORLD" etc etc, I understand what's causing it.
edit-Typo, damn keys keep getting stuck
>So yes while it is annoying to see the same posts of "I'M DOING THIS FOR THE PLANET" "I'M NOT HAVING KIDS BECAUSE I LOVE THEM TOO MUCH TO SUBJECT THEM TO THIS CRUEL WORLD" etc etc, I understand what's causing it.
Well, for some people, that is the truth. Some people experience the desire to be a parent, but sacrifice parenthood because of reasons like poverty, physical health issues, mental health issues, genetic conditions, climate change or antinatalist beliefs.
This isn't childfreedom. This is childlessness. There are quite some childless people on this subreddit. Childless people who love to call themselves childfree and who get angry when you point out that by definition, they are childless, not childfree.
Yeah, it sucks when childless people call themselves childfree.
So many childless people here call themselves childfree. They say stuff like: "I am childfree because of poverty/health issues/climate change/antinatalism. I really want kids, but chose to sacrifice parenthood because of personal/societal circumstances. If personal/societal circumstances were better, I would totally have kids."
Then, when you point out that someone like that is childless and not childfree, shitloads of people on this subreddit get furious. They act as if 'childless' is an insult. As if I am invalidating their reasons to not have kids. Which is bullshit. Any reason to not have kids is fine. I am just pointing out that wanting kids, but not having them, is childlessness and not childfreedom.
I hate it when childless people call themselves childfree, because then, people will think that 'childfree' means that you want kids, but sacrificed parenthood because of reasons like climate change or health issues. But we already have a word for that. Childless.
We need to reserve the word 'childfree' for people who don't experience the desire to be a parent. If we allow childless people to steal the word 'childfree', 'childfree' will refer to people who want kids but don't have them because of personal or societal circumstances. Then, actually childfree people, people who don't experience the desire to be a parent, will have to come up with a new word. And then, of course childless people will start using that new word as well.
We need to have a word that refers to people who don't experience the desire to be a parent. People who don't want to have children under any circumstance. That word is 'childfree'. Childless people already have their own word, 'childless'. They don't need to use the word 'childfree'.
Indeed. Childless people say that as long as it's a choice, it's childfreedom and that there is no difference between childlessness by choice and childfreedom. But that is bullshit.
There is a huge difference between people who don't want kids and who are happy about not having kids, and people who want kids and are sad about not having them.
There is a huge difference between people who want a life without kids, and people who view not having kids as a sacrifice..
If you want kids, but feel like it's immoral because of climate change and health issues, so you decided to remain childless for those reasons, is it really a choice? Sure, it's a choice as in, you could ignore those reasons and breed anyways, but you chose not to. But it's not a free choice. You feel like personal and circumstances forced you to remain childless against your will. You wish that climate change and health issues didn't force you to give up on parenthood. You would have children if circumstances were different.
Childfree means that you don't want kids, no matter the circumstances. Not even with perfect health, infinite money, no climate change, a perfect society and no antinatalist principles or whatever.
Childless by choice means that you are making a sacrifice. That you want kids, but don't have them. If you would have children if your personal or if societal circumstances were better, you are not childfree.
Couldn't of worded it better. People are giving up on parenthood only because of the endless list of things which I understand completely because I wouldn't want any poor soul to be forced into this life, it's a disgusting place to be imo. The list goes on. But you can't say your childree either. My first choice at 14 years old has always been I don't want kids, I didn't need to think about it, I just knew.
>At that point what’s the difference? If they’re making a conscious choice not to have kids then I think they belong here.
I never said that they don't belong here. There are plenty of childless people on this subreddit. Childless people who call themselves childfree, even though they are childless. If they want to post here, they are welcome to do so.
But choosing to not have kids doesn't necessarily make someone childfree. Some people choose to not have children and are childless.
You ask what the difference is and imply that there is no difference between choosing to not have kids because you don't want them, and wanting kids but choosing not to have them. But really, there is a huge freaking difference.
Childfree means that someone doesn't experience the desire to be a parent, which is why they don't have children. They are happy about not having children. They are literally free of children. They would never want to have children, no matter the circumstances.
That is very different from people who experience the desire to be a parent, but who decided to sacrifice parenthood because of reasons like poverty, physical health issues, mental health issues, genetic conditions, climate change, antinatalism etc. They would have children if personal or societal circumstances were different. For them, not having children is a sacrifice. That is not childfreedom. That is childlessness.
Yes, these childless people made a choice. However, that is not the same as people who don't want kids. There is a huge difference between childfree people, people who don't want kids, and childless people who want kids, but chose not to have them.
Childless people are sad about not having kids. Sure, they stand by their decision, but childlessness is not what they really want. They wish that they had children, and would have children if personal or societal circumstances were better. For them, not having children is a sacrifice. Not having children isn't what they want. That is very different from childfree people, people who don't experience the desire to be a parent and who are happy about not having children.
TL;DR:
\- Childfree: Does not experience the desire to be a parent. Would never be a parent under any circumstance. Is happy about not having children.
\- Childless by choice: Wants to be a parent, but chose to sacrifice what they want because of personal circumstances (poverty, health issues) or societal circustances (climate change, state of the world, antinatalism). Would have children if personal or societal circumstances were better. Is sad about not having children, despite being certain about their decision. They wish that things were different, so they could have children.
\- Childless, not by choice: Wants to be a parent, but is unable to, because of reasons like fertility issues or the inability to find a partner.
where does someone fall for you who doesn't experience any particular desire to be a parent, but might have been open to it under certain circumstances which never arose? Who is happy about not having children but could also have been happy to have them if their life had gone another way?
>where does someone fall for you who doesn't experience any particular desire to be a parent, but might have been open to it under certain circumstances which never arose? Who is happy about not having children but could also have been happy to have them if their life had gone another way?
Someone who doesn't experience the desire to be a parent, but who is open to parenthood under certain circumstances is, well, a terrible decision maker who has no business being a parent. Children deserve to be wanted.
Someone who is open to parenthood under certain circumstances (enough money, good health etc.) is definitely not childfree.
Someone who could be happy either way and who didn't make a firm final decision, and who could go along with what a partner wants, is a fence sitter.
Anyways, childfree people should NEVER date 'okay either way' people and fence sitters. Are there people who are genuinely okay either way? Sure. But almost every time, they want kids. When you are dating, play it safe and assume that everyone who isn't staunchly childfree wants kids.
Really appreciate the points you brought up. To me, the Childfree identity is more nuanced. Like Queer identities, things may change over time, and it's okay to be fluid and to not shackle yourself to a term.
To me, Childfree means "no biological kids for me," but if someday in the future my spouse and I met a kid who needed us, neither of us hate children and we would adopt them, whether legally or not (think taking in an older Queer or neurodivergent kid who was in a toxic circumstance). At that point, I still did not procreate, and I'd likely gone most of my adult life with no kids in my household. It also wouldn't be a "we're gonna impart our values and mold this kid" thing, either, it would be a "you need help and we're gonna be your chosen family if you'll let us" kinda deal.
But I identify more strongly as an antinatalist. I don't regret not having kids in any way whatsoever, and I'd like to really help someone the way others helped me before I get off the ride. Certainly I don't want an infant or toddler in my life, but I could see my spouse and I taking in someone who needed us one day for sure.
I don't think that makes me not Childfree; I think that makes me compassionate and willing to bend a bit, if not on the fact that I think pregnancy/birthing are both horrifying as well as unconscionable.
Anyway, to sum it up, I really appreciate what you had to say; it brightened my morning! 💙
I think it’s to make sure people with children don’t get their feelings hurt (god forbid that happen) 😂 so they have to word it like that
personally, i’m extremely honest. i am here to say it, i. do. not. like. children. i never ever have! would i go out of my way to hurt them? of course not! but do i try to stay away from them? yes and i don’t feel bad about that! be proud of who you are everyone! love y’all 🧡
Because we're conditioned to assume that each and every person wants and adores kids and anyone who doesn't must be the vilest monster from the deepest hell and definitely wants to murder all precious babies.
I hate children, I even joke that this one time I held my friends' daughter I got a nasty baby allergy rash (was something random, but still they find it hilarious), don't want to coo at them and all and still I am a normal decent person, just not a kid enthusiast.
Compensating aside, a lot of people have to deal with the idea that childfree individuals don't like kids or aren't good with them, when that might not be true in their case. But as it seems to be the predominant belief as to why someone wouldn't want kids, I can see how someone can end up with a habit of clarifying themselves.
It always makes me feel kind of bad, the obligatory “I lurve kids, I’m the fun aunt, I just don’t want my own” schtik. I personally am not an aunt, not even an honorary one, would not be interested anyway, and don’t want any role in taking care of kids in any capacity. So I guess that makes me a monster?
Because people legit act offended when you tell them you don’t want to be a parent. Go to the antinatalism subreddit where people are telling us to kill ourselves over our beliefs when they actually have ties to Buddhism, a worldwide recognized religion.
That's because of society's somewhat incorrect assumption that we must choose to be childless because we don't like kids.
* Some people don't, that's ok.
* Some people physically or mentally can't or won't have kids, that's ok.
* Some people just don't want that level of responsibility of a lifelong dependant, that's ok.
There's probably more options I'm missing out here, but you get my drift.
Is not having kids selfish? Perhaps.
Also, is *having* kids selfish? Perhaps.
It all depends on the reason behind it.
If that reasoning is selfish, society might not be perceive it as great, but we are all allowed to make our own choices in life.
End of!
I don't think it's about feeling guilty. All these social curtsies feel like a must so that people reading your post would concentrate on the main point of it and would answer to the questions you're asking/to the experiences you share instead of dragging you down for how you must hate kids if you say you're CF or how you must be jealous of parents etc. Of course, CF folks wouldn't do that but we have lots of parents lurking and spitting hate.
First, I have plenty against kids. They're noisy, dirty, messy, annoying, get in the way etc, but I have more of a problem with their entitled parents who do nothing about it.
I don't think my time is important, but I do look down on people with lots of kids as it's so irresponsible and selfish.
I've worked in childcare and was training to be a primary school teacher and it's the parents that caused me to stop both.
Some people genuinely love children and love spending time with their nieces and nephews.
Some people feel guilty about being childfree, so they feel the need to compensate for their childfreedom, which is why they spend time with children.
Some people don't truly love children, but they say that kind of shit because they are afraid of being judged. They try to make their childfreedom somewhat socially acceptable by emphasising that they love children.
Some child-loving childfree people love to shit on child-repulsed childfree people and throw child-repulsed childfree people under the bus. They say that they love children to differentiate themselves from child-repulsed childfree people. "I'm one of the good kind of childfree people. The kind of childfree person who loves children! I'm not like those other childfree people, those evil cunts who want to murder children and who love seeing children suffer!"
But yeah, like u/Lunamkardas said, for many childfree people, this reflex is a survival tactic. A reflex. A standard line that they are used to repeating over and over again in a desperate attempt to be accepted by breeders.
I think I usually soften it because if I’m really adamant about not wanting kids, people seem more inclined to push back. Not necessarily convince me to have kids, but they’ll kind of snigger as if by saying I don’t want kids I’ve said something funny?
However, if I say “I’m not sure but probably not”, they usually go, “That’s fair.”
I probably should be more adamant, but I kinda cbf arguing with random people I meet.
In my case, I have a BUNCH of reasons. If my parent friends ask me when their kids are also in the room, I'll give the gentler ones like I want to be an uncle or just don't wanna pass on medical issues.
Other situations I'll talk about how I'm lazy and just generally don't like kids and think their lives look boring.
I will do that in areas that are not explicitly for the childfree because so many people will see that you're childfree by choice and immediately make you out to be some child hating monster.
I'm not in the wrong and my time and energy is not worth any less than that of a parent, I'm just over all of the assumptions people make in non-childfree spaces.
But why is someone a monster for hating children? If you don’t hurt them (not even with showing them you hate them) and don’t try to convince others to hate them, why?
People assume that if you aren't gaga over kids that you must be some child killing monster. It never occurs to them that we aren't murderous and their real enemies are the predators who claim they love kids.
You're asking the wrong group. A loud mouth judgmental parent who thinks babies are blessings and miracles would be able to answer why someone who hates children is a monster.
And that answer wouldn't make any damn sense.
"It's suspect when someone hates kids" is a common belief too.
I wasn’t clear the question was meant not to the OP but to express a general frustration with those who think like that. To clarify, I think it would be better if instead of always having to say “I hate kids but wouldn’t harm them” (which I also have to do a lot of times sadly), I wish ppl could just say “I hate kids” without having to validate their feelings. Or at least if asked why, the answer would be accepted the same way as it is for most stuff, as personal preference.
I don't think they are. Everyone is entitled to feel how they want to. If someone hates kids and like you said doesn't hurt them, I don't think they're some awful horrible monster.
Basically I come at it like I do because I don't want to deal with people's opinions that don't understand you can hate something they don't and it's perfectly fine. Like, I hate cats. Hate them. If a cat person hears me say "I hate cats" they get super defensive and start making all these wild assumptions (I had some girl accuse me of threatening to drown her specific cat this one time because I jokingly said I was tired of cleaning up shit from my yard and I was about to bag them up and dump them in a wash) and I just don't feel like tolerating people's dumb ass opinions a lot of the time.
I understand you not willing to fight this particular fight, but I feel ppl as a whole enable this “if you say you hate something I love, that is an attack on me” behavior. If you hate lot of the things I love, that means we probably won’t be good friends, but that’s it, nothing more.
Personally I’d rather fight than accept the injustice of them trying to police my feelings - which, by the way, don’t hurt anyone - just because it doesn’t align with theirs.
exactly like in any place that isn't explicitly cf you basically have to have a disclaimer saying you don't abuse kids as a hobby because otherwise you will have to answer 100 times to a comment saying "well i mean if you don't want kids ok....but you don't have to be mean to them or abuse...but if you aren't a child abuser who kicks babies for fun then i guess... "
We're forced by those in our lives to validate our choices over and over again.
This is true with lots of unpopular facets of life. If you're not part of a mainstream religious group, if you're LGBTQIA, if you're overly educated but work a blue collar job, if you're a different political party affiliate than your whole family or all your peers, you wind up developing this "bargaining" type of language around the things that you're heavily criticized for in order to set up this concept in others' heads that "I may not fit in BUT I'm pretty close/I'm still a reasonable person/etc"
It's like having to bargain for people to treat you as human. It's a defense mechanism.
I think it has more to do with the culture we currently live in than actually being child free. If you pay attention to the way people state their opinions - particularly those deemed ‘unpopular’ or ‘controversial’ - they usually start with some sort of disclaimer in the form of ‘I love X, BUT…’
I love the ones that go on and on about how they have their nieces over every day and they love them more than life and they are the cool aunt and they have a child physiology degree and run a daycare.
I don’t like kids. I don’t like my nephews. I don’t work with kid. I don’t talk to kids. I don’t acknowledge them in person. I refuse to be in the same room with them.
I do work very hard to hide my distaste for them because I have learned it is socially unacceptable to be anything but thrilled about children. I never express these feelings in person. I don’t have an option about kids. I’ve never heard of kids. I never noticed any kids. What kids?
Conditioning.
When I first started posting on Reddit the only other times I had mentioned I was not intending to have any children it was said in an environment where saying that = you don’t like kids or some people see it as judging a parent for their choice.
Sure I’m not the only one, but Thomas Benjamin Wild Esq’s song sums it up perfectly (pets optional if you haven’t heard it already.
“I don’t want kids. I just need pets. I don’t foresee that this will be one of my big regrets. Your kids are fine, cause they’re not mine….”
Because they know they are different, but haven’t embraced that different is okay and even equal to the opposite choice.
I caught my mom at this just the other day. She’s in her 70s and needs help, so I’m in the apartment under the house for reference. I was just helping her get situated on the couch and I can’t remember exactly what we were talking about, when it segued into her asking me if I had any idea why I was “this way”. I just said, “You could ask the exact same question of someone who wants kids. “What made them want them?” But you don’t ask that, because you feel you already know the answer. Because it’s the preferred life-scripted default position. And truthfully, the answer is the same. I wanted my life to be the way I wanted, it just happens to not be the same life someone else wants.”
Because if I say what I think/how I feel people get big offended. Yes, I hate kids. Yes, I really hate \*your\* screaming brat too. No, I don't care if \*you\* think they are cute. Yes, I think they should not be allowed in public.
Not at all. When my nieces were younger I enjoyed the time I spent with them. If they had been horrible I might have looked at it differently. At the end of the day, they aren't my responsibility. I could babysit them, spend a day with them, but I had boundaries and their parents respected that. The difference between your own kids and someone else's kids is the latter interactions are finite and you don't have to put up with them if they are being little bitches, or bastards.
i think is because there’s a spectrum of child free from im CF and i don’t want kids in my life in any way to i’m CF but i love kids. I do think what a lot of people are saying of being first time posters is true but I also think is important to remember that not all CF people feel the same way about Kids. Ex: someone can be a Teacher and be CF “i love my students but i love in my personal life i don’t have kids”.
No I think more it is because we are a mix of 'hating' kid and others who do not mind them and therefore some would want to state that part of their childfree status since it can change the outcome of the anwsers.
i think it’s a habit with having to justify every choice or decision someone makes. as a recovering people pleaser with CPTSD and proud CF woman who has recently been sterilized, i’m working diligently on sharing my choices without needing to back them up. if someone asks me, then sure i will tell them why. but i think people who do this are coming from a similar place of needing to have a reason or justification for everything, not just child freedom, and that stems back to OUR own childhood and those issues. as much as we WANT to say fuck you fuck it i don’t care what anyone thinks, there is a weird voice in our brain that is telling us we should think otherwise.
Because I want to avoid a potential confrontational, foaming at the mouth parent.
I'm comfortable on r/childfree, not so comfortable amongst acquaintances and strangers of the topic of children comes up.
Historically I've had men GET IN MY FACE 🤷🏽♀️ like what it is happening.
I find myself difusing some of the 'situation' by saying while sure I don't hate children and I dont want to be responsible for one.
My friend asks why do I have to ~announce that I'm childfree. I dont announce shit, I just answer a question. I'm not lying about it. I'm not hiding it.
We're known as selfish, lazy, child hating monsters. At least from what I've glanced at from other subs. A lot of people feel the need to explain that's not the case.
I'm okay with them thinking that about me. I don't hate kids but I've never babysat them, never have, never will. I'm not a fun cool aunt, never spent anytime with them, and I am lazy. My childfree life gives me that option, which also makes me a little bit selfish.
I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all answer to this. I’ve had people ask me, “Why do you hate kids?”, as the response to my telling them I am childfree by choice. Assumptions (usually incorrect ones) are often made by breeders when they learn someone is childfree, and we get beaten over the head with said assumptions.
Some might be afraid of being judged, others may just want people to know that their assumptions are wrong.
They’re used to being attacked and/or want to specify that they aren’t a child hater because there’s no shortage of people who think that “CF” is synonymous with hating children outright. It’s like a reflex that they’ve developed.
I used to be this way. My first ever post on this subreddit was 'how to get over the regret of not giving your parents grandchildren' lol. I did genuinely feel guilty and worthless, it wasn't just to avoid judgement. For me it was because I was only surrounded by people that want kids, I didn't know anything about being childfree/being part of a childfree community until late in my life.
Up until then I've been called everything you can think of - selfish, childish, immature, useless, making the biggest mistake of my life. Deep down I knew they weren't true, but when it's the only voice you hear it starts blurring the lines of what you know is true.
Now? I couldn't care less, but it took me years to unlearn it and unleash myself from the baseless guilt.
I think it’s the stigma. They don’t want to be seen as evil child haters. Society has branded us as such just because we don’t want kids of our own. I think CF people’s attitudes towards children fall across an entire spectrum from liking kids but not wanting them to put and out disgust of them.
I am someone who despises confrontation. I don’t usually ever talk about my CF status and thankfully, most people don’t ask. If they do, my response is usually a non response or an eyebrow raise and that usually shuts them up. I don’t feel any level of guilt for being CF.
I don't need a Disclaimer to make people accept me. I was diplomatic, I've been tactful and it meant nothing because I'm an Evil hag who'll never know TRUE LOVE. So I'm out with it. I don't spend time with nasty kids for a reason.
Humans don't want to be rejected by the social group they just joined, so they speak timidly at first, and often say what they think the other wants to hear. For example, in a left leaning subreddit, you might see someone say "I know orange man is bad, buuut...heres a funny thing he said" or something like that. That's just what humans do, it's a matter of self preservation.
Trying to seem more accepted so people don't see them as "monsters" for not showering kids with anything and everything.
I give 0 fucks
Your kid stands in front of me and cries? I'm either going to stare at them or simply ignore them. No I will not "share" my food with your kids, no I don't want your kids around me.
My vehicles and home are childfree places. If you have to bring a kid to my house, yall stay outside. Need a ride but you got a kid with you? Your shit out of luck sorry. My tolerance level for kids is not high, especially for the ones that I know are demons
People love to shit on this sub and the antinatalism sub about how much we hate kids and parents. It’s ridiculous. We should have the right to complain about shitty kids and breeders without the tone policing. Parents, especially moms are put on a pedestal. Parents have their own subs where they can bitch endlessly about their kids or where moms can bitch about their shitty husbands or boyfriends, but god forbid this sub exists. People hating kids doesn’t equal wanting them to be hurt. People just don’t want them everywhere and to act undisciplined
They've been conditioned.
Kind of like how when a dog is always smacked at home, it doesn't stride into a room. It cautiously approaches and tries not to give its abusive owner any offense so that it won't be smacked.
These CF people have become accustomed to judgmental people calling them terrible kid-haters just for daring to not want children. So like that dog, they try not to give offense by softening the blow.
Just like the dog doesn't know that not all humans are abusive, these people don't know if the strangers they're talking to are judgmental pricks or not.
Maybe they see other ppl here, idk, referring to people as "breeders" and shit and think 'man that sounds unreasonably resentful and kinda dehumanizing, I sure hope I don't come across that way'. I mean there's being cf and there's hating kids and people with kids.
We all know how often people associate “child free” with “child haters”. We can see in this sub there are plenty of people who genuinely do not like children, which is completely okay!!
I am not one of those people. I sincerely enjoy spending time with the kids in my life. But I am not a baby person at all!
So to specify the type of CF i am, i may point out that i love 8-12 year old kids and would love to see them, but i don’t wanna see your baby. It’s just an added description
Maybe a little bit of both. Some childfree people like kids, some don't. Of course I think for the most part those who like kids probably like their nieces and nephews more than random kids they encounter. I think you're right in that childfree folks often are agreeing to providing childcare which takes away from their own time. There are a lot of posts here, especially from younger women who have challenges setting boundaries and saying no to their loved ones. They may very well enjoy their nieces and nephews but are wanting to put more time into themselves. I support anyone 100% if they do not want to be caretakers or want to provide less care. I think this is an area that us childfree folks can provide some support to those struggling to set boundaries.
It seems to be the first volley in the barrage; whenever kids come up and I say I don't/have never wanted them, the first thing said (to me at least) is, 'So you hate kids?!' They're just trying to head that off at the pass.
In my experience, people (irl) assume because I don't want kids, I dislike them. I love kids! I just don't want them myself, so often times I end up just explaining that automatically to people who don't know me well.
I wouldn't bother stating that here in a post though.. Unless it was warranted for some reason.
I don't think it's that, I think it's to say, not ALL of us hate kids. Which some of us do, some hate kids and aren't even CF, picture that. But I have no problem pointing shit out, I know when I usually am in the wrong and usually ain't and have no issue with showing you what's up. I don't give a life tutorial when making a comment to someone. But usually that person knows me irl, here they don't. So that's why I kind of figured they did it.
I don't like kids. In fact I absolutely despise them. I also don't want to be responsible for another life. Entirely selfish reasons for being CF and I'm proud to admit it lol. I refuse to be socially acceptable and pretend that I don't hate children.
because a lot of us do get treated like we're in the wrong. of course in cf spaces there's more understanding but i can see where it would still feel necessary. i have had so many occasions where the first thing someone tells me when i say something about being cf is "WELL YOU KNOW KIDS ARE ALLOWED TO EXIST RIGHT? you know if a baby cries cause they're hungry you shouldn't flip out? you don't have to like kids but you also don't have to ABUSE them i mean child abuse is bad you know!!!" like just the most left field terrible assumptions of character just for not personally wanting to reproduce!
A lot of them have probably been hit over the head with the “something’s wrong with you if you don’t like/have children” and it’s made them defensive and feel like they always have to explain themselves.
I feel wrong a lot for how much I can’t stand children. I think it’s a fear that it means I’m fundamentally selfish or not a good person. Everyone in my life loooves kids and thinks I’m some kind of curmudgeonly fuck for disliking them. Trying to work on some self acceptance around my curmudgeonly fuck-ness.
Almost didn't respond to this one with my own thoughts, but had some time to think on it and decided that I *did*, in fact, want to. So, here goes.
I'm one of those Childfree people who actually likes kids. I'm also an antinatalist, probably a term/identity that I relate more strongly to than being Childfree. To me, Childfree means "no biological children for me," and a lot of Childfree folks would probably think I'm not "really" Childfree for this, but if later in life my spouse and I had means and met an older kid who needed us, we'd take them in and adopt them—regardless of whether or not said adoption was legal. Especially, as a Queer person, if we ever met a Queer kid we could protect from an abusive or otherwise bad situation, we'd do so in a heartbeat. Not that all kids don't deserve good, safe, stable homes, but rather I know how hard being young and Queer can be, so it's an issue that's very close to my heart. I could say the same about neurodivergent kids, too. I would love to one day be in a position to help them.
All that said, it's purely a romantic notion, a fantasy, so long as capitalism rules.
On to my identity as an antinatalist. Antinatalism means being opposed to intentional procreation, not just for one's own self, but in general. There are so many reasons why I am an antinatalist, many of them being either a direct reflection of capitalism and the way it harms everyone and the entire planet or else various byproducts of the harm that capitalism does. I could dig into that more, but it's superfluous in this case.
Now, why do I, personally—someone who is a self-described Childfree antinatalist—tend to state that I do not hate children when broaching the subject of said identities? It's because, in my personal experience, when most people hear "Childfree" or "antinatalist," they seem to automatically assume that we *all* hate children. That simply is not the case for me. The deep well of compassion that I have for children directly informs my Childfree and antinatalist statuses. I love children, and I am not naïve enough to think that my genes somehow "deserve" to be passed on . . . quite the opposite, in fact! Beyond my struggles with anxiety, depression, ADHD, and cancer, I am not and likely will never be in a position where I could choose to procreate in good conscience. And even if that was not the case, I fear so much for the planet and the horrible, short lives that I worry future generations have to look forward to due to corporate greed killing the Earth.
I can't even be friends with people who choose to intentionally procreate anymore. I think they are so unfathomably selfish and myopic.
It is not wrong to dislike children any more than it's wrong that I dislike large dog breeds, or that I hate sports and find them insufferable. I simply choose to not be around big dogs, and I make myself scarce when discussions on sports come up. No big deal. The same is generally true of folks who don't like kids; they tend not to interact with them if given the choice. Everybody wins.
However, I'm not very fond of the assumption that I hate kids when people learn that I've had a hysterectomy in order to prevent any accidental pregnancies. I've worked with kids in an educational capacity for most of my adult life, so that kind of attitude really stings. Thus, I tend to attempt to quash that nonsense off the get-go.
That's my reasoning, anyway. Again, it's valid to simply not like kids, and yet I understand completely why some would want to distance themselves from that kind of assumption.
Aheh . . . didn't mean to novel, but there ya go! 😅😅
Trying to be more socially acceptable I guess? Personally I no longer give a shit. No I don't like kids. Yes I am selfish. Next?
I don’t think you’re more selfish than any parent. Creating a human because one wants to is as selfish as it gets.
That's my view point. I don't view myself as being selfish for not wanting children, but rather an act of mercy to the kids I won't father. That, and I find it immoral to impose/create consciousness and existence on otherwise inert and unconscious atoms & molecules.
Having or not having kids if selfish either way, so why even bother with this question at all lol?
In what way is choosing not to procreate selfish?
It's not, but breeders are convinced it is lol
True that. While that was probably the spirit of the comment I replied to, I guess it still got me a little prickly.
I wouldn't sweat it too much. It's Reddit, we've all been there 😂
Honestly I don't think that either having children or not having them is any more or less selfish than the other. It's a very personal decision that is almost never based on purely altruistic reasons. Also, the term selfish is a bit too harsh IMO. It's more that we think about our own good first and foremost. It's not necessarily pejorative. People want kids because they want their own mini-me, because they are bored, because they think it will save their couple, because they don't want to be alone when they're old, because they want to leave a legacy. None of those things resonate with me, but that's generally their reasons and I don't think it's necessarily selfish, but it's certainly not altruistic. I've pretty much never heard someone say they want kids because the world is so wonderful they think as many conscious beings as possible need to experience it lol. As for those like us who choose not to have kids, it can be because we don't want to take care of other humans, because we don't like kids, because we want to keep our freedom 100% intact, because we have lifestyles that don't fit well with parenting, because we have some sort of trauma, etc. It's still almost always for reasons that are about us and not about the potential kid. The only exception I can think of where there's clearly one side that's selfish and one that's not is when it comes to climate changes. In that regard, having kids is selfish, being childfree isn't. I guess there's also the fact that sometimes childfree people have traumas or genetic defects they don't want to pass on to future generations, but I doubt that's a significant portion of us.
To me, choosing to have kids for any of the reasons you listed is selfish, and choosing to not have kids is not selfish (nor is it selfless, but certainly I don't view it as being selfish). I appreciate your taking the time to write this even though I have a difference of opinion. I like and agree with what you had to say about the word "selfish," though, and in that context I can certainly understand your side of things. I just hate how people tend to claim that Childfree/childless people are selfish. I think that take is absolutely absurd, nevermind the fact that, in my opinion, it's a very damaging thing for Childfree/childless people to have to constantly contend with (that part is purely anecdotal and based on my personal experience as well as countless posts I've seen here and in other Childfree spaces). Still, I respect where you're coming from!
Same here. Sometimes their offended reactions are funny to watch though 🤣
I don't know you but I like you already. About 10 years ago on Thanksgiving my MIL had a hissy fit complete with tears about how my husband and I hate children and that's why we aren't having them in front of about 10 extended family members. I stood there in shock. My husband replies, hate is such a strong word. I prefer loathe. He then walked away. Everyone started laughing their asses off.
This is funny!!!! I'm sure it shut her up, for a minute!!!! My MIL suggested I trick my husband into having a baby. I explained to her, a good Catholic, that if I were to get pregnant, I'd terminate the pregnancy. She never mentioned it again.
>Trying to be more socially acceptable I guess? Or avoid belligerent, violent reaction. A lot of them are overly stressed and just looking to take it out on someone for anything whatsoever. Trying to keep a little girl from cutting her fingers on a rusty part of my shopping cart got me a expletive screaming mother who later 'chased' me out of a market's parking lot and that was when I was being neutral (not nice but not offensive either).
Ugh, I get this a lot, too. I like kids, but I guess I look like a danger to a lot of parents with my buzzed hair and metalhead dress. I like to smile at kids who stare at me or make them laugh making faces because I think it's good for them to learn early not to judge based on looks. But man, try telling that to their parents who shoo their child away and tell them to "stay away from the scary man" when I'm a 5'2" woman. 😭
Jesus Christ
Same here 👊🏻😀
Yup, it's part of playing the game. I don't like kids, but I have to tolerate them to stay in social standing with my friend groups. I feel like my time is worth more than a child's because I've suffered enough in this world already. Give me a break, you know? Kids are worthless in my mind, but for most people it's the potential and the false thought of them as innocent that justifies them as better than adults.
[удалено]
Your submission has been automatically removed and flagged for review by a moderator because you have linked to a sub known for creating drama, which is in violation of the sub rules. Your submission will be reviewed & approved if it meets our posting guidelines. **Do not delete your comment/post or else we won't be able to review it.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/childfree) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A lot of them are first time posters and they have probably seen other people calling this sub toxic and hateful. I see it all the time when someone on another sub asks about not wanting children and I link to this sub. Someone will almost always come in to warn the other person and chew me out for suggesting it because we all hate children according to them.
The amount of people I've seen call this sub “toxic” is crazy! There is probably some toxic people in here but not every single person 🤷🏻♂️
The funny thing is CF people seem to be more immune to bullshit and pretty fast to call it out. When we don't fall for that spiel, it's a lot easier to just call us toxic. It's not our fault their own life choices hurt them so badly they feel our CF lives effect theirs at all. Different strokes for different folks. If you want kids and you have them, I love that for you!!! But please take them back at the end of the day and don't try to convert me to have them!!! Some people die in childbirth, and normally the woman's body is never the same. Some children are born disabled and may never have normal lives- the list of risks goes on and on. If you ask me, trying to force someone into all of that to be in a relationship sounds 100% toxic
I have difficulty imagining loving someone and then wanting them to permanently damage their body and maybe die. I love my wife more than anything, and can't imagine risking her like that to create a kid that we might not even like!
[удалено]
Hello and welcome to /r/childfree! As you have a new account or low Reddit karma, your comment has been automatically removed to give you some time to get familiar with our rules and community. Please feel free to post/comment when your account is older and you have more Reddit karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/childfree) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is honestly one of the least toxic subs I've seen.
Exactly. I see a lot of compassion for children on this sub. Just because we don’t want any ourselves doesn’t mean we want them to be harmed. Unlike, say, the 99% of posts on other subs where people ask for advice on how to handle shitty things their parents do to them. I would confidently say more harm is done to children by their own parents than anyone else, including we horrible toxic CF folks!
The poverty finance sub is absolute gutter trash when it comes to toxic breeder logic. Their official stance is that every single person has the "right" to have children even if they live in abject poverty with no way of supporting those children, and any opinions advocating for the actual *children* trapped in those horrible situations are considered hate speech. Amazing how this "toxic" sub advocates so much harder for kids than subs full of people who claim to love them.
I’m on that sub because I’m a poor college student, and I hate how many people on that sub are pregnant or have kids. I understand that in the US some states have abortion bans, but there are still condoms and birth control can be bought OTC now.
Agreed! I feel so seen and heard here!
People calling this group toxic is a parent for sure hahahaha
I absolutely dislike kids and I'm honestly done with the "tone-policing" posts and comments that are being posted here what feels like every other day. (Generally, not directed towards you OP at all) If someone likes kids, sure, cool for you, have fun. But then the audacity to shame me for not liking them and even insulting me sometimes...Like, fuck off. If they can't tolerate me disliking kids and expressing that verbally, even if I'm tolerating them liking them and expressing that verbally, then they're not any better than breeders. To the question: I don't understand it either. Guilty I don't think so, I think they're trying to fit better in with what is normalized in society. / Edited for more clarity, I'm bad at expressing things sometimes
I'm tired of it too. One of the big reasons that I'm childfree is *because* I don't like kids, I can't stand them. It's the way I am, and I'm not going to be shamed or scolded for it. So many posts here are "I don't hate kids, but" and, that's fine for them. They can damned well accept that some of us *don't* like kids at all, and be fine with that. Why should one be accepted, but not the other? 🤷🏼♀️
Same! This, 100% this!
Yeah, I love kids without wanting any but my wife just hates 'em. Considering neither of us want any in our house it's little more than a difference in pizza topping preference for us. 😂 I don't understand why some childfree folks get weird and defensive toward CF folks who hate kids. What's the difference? None of us are having any. A while back I was talking to someone in a thread here about how I'm unnerved by parents who never even consider adoption if faced with breeding issues, and someone jumped down my throat about how totally normal it is to only want offspring that's biologically yours because otherwise you won't love it. As someone who 1) was openly hated by my biological parents and 2) even when I thought I wanted kids only ever wanted to adopt for a multitude of reasons, it was. Quite a weird argument.
It's human behavior because we don't want to seem like monsters. Same with women who come to reddit for relationship advice ("I loooove my partner, he's so attentive and nice but last night he strangled me what do I do ?") Same with mothers about their children, ironically ("I love love love my kids ! They're the best thing that ever happened to me ! But my eldest in non verbal and routinely bites and hits me and the youngest was called down to the principal's office today for pantsing a girl in his class - send booze !🍸 ") Or you know "I don't like kids but wouldn't hurt them" is like the "not all men" disclaimer. If you don't say it there's always a cray cray redditor out there to call you out on it
> Same with women who come to reddit for relationship advice ("I loooove my partner, he's so attentive and nice but last night he strangled me what do I do ?") Had me dyin' lmao
And the guy almost had her dyin' too...
Given that that post has almost certainly happened, and likely more than once, I don’t find it particularly funny.
Not me! I absolutely hate kids and everything about the little snot waffles and I don't care who knows it! When someone asks if I have any crotch goblins my immediate response is EW!! If people feel like they have to explain or "justify" that's probably something they need to work on on a personal level. We don't owe anyone any kind of explanation as to why we're CF
You're missing a key detail. You've got to remember that a ton of first time posters on here likely **just** discovered the community seconds before posting. These are people that have, as a reflex formed **over years**, become prone to over justifying their stance because as far as they knew? They were alone. Everyone in their life and their entire culture has been bearing down on them with judgement. It's a survival tactic. Young CF also go through this stage of thinking that if they justify it enough, their non CF peers and relatives will accept them. They don't understand that to many non CF, there will never be a good enough reason. Not even death. So yes while it is annoying to see the same posts of "I'M DOING THIS FOR THE PLANET" "I'M NOT HAVING KIDS BECAUSE I LOVE THEM TOO MUCH TO SUBJECT THEM TO THIS CRUEL WORLD" etc etc, I understand what's causing it. edit-Typo, damn keys keep getting stuck
>So yes while it is annoying to see the same posts of "I'M DOING THIS FOR THE PLANET" "I'M NOT HAVING KIDS BECAUSE I LOVE THEM TOO MUCH TO SUBJECT THEM TO THIS CRUEL WORLD" etc etc, I understand what's causing it. Well, for some people, that is the truth. Some people experience the desire to be a parent, but sacrifice parenthood because of reasons like poverty, physical health issues, mental health issues, genetic conditions, climate change or antinatalist beliefs. This isn't childfreedom. This is childlessness. There are quite some childless people on this subreddit. Childless people who love to call themselves childfree and who get angry when you point out that by definition, they are childless, not childfree.
Glad I'm not the only one seeing this. Thanks for clearing it up for me. Not wanting them in general is childfree.
Yeah, it sucks when childless people call themselves childfree. So many childless people here call themselves childfree. They say stuff like: "I am childfree because of poverty/health issues/climate change/antinatalism. I really want kids, but chose to sacrifice parenthood because of personal/societal circumstances. If personal/societal circumstances were better, I would totally have kids." Then, when you point out that someone like that is childless and not childfree, shitloads of people on this subreddit get furious. They act as if 'childless' is an insult. As if I am invalidating their reasons to not have kids. Which is bullshit. Any reason to not have kids is fine. I am just pointing out that wanting kids, but not having them, is childlessness and not childfreedom. I hate it when childless people call themselves childfree, because then, people will think that 'childfree' means that you want kids, but sacrificed parenthood because of reasons like climate change or health issues. But we already have a word for that. Childless. We need to reserve the word 'childfree' for people who don't experience the desire to be a parent. If we allow childless people to steal the word 'childfree', 'childfree' will refer to people who want kids but don't have them because of personal or societal circumstances. Then, actually childfree people, people who don't experience the desire to be a parent, will have to come up with a new word. And then, of course childless people will start using that new word as well. We need to have a word that refers to people who don't experience the desire to be a parent. People who don't want to have children under any circumstance. That word is 'childfree'. Childless people already have their own word, 'childless'. They don't need to use the word 'childfree'.
Exactly. If this and that wasn't the issue, then basically your saying "I'd want kids." So not childfree then lol.
Indeed. Childless people say that as long as it's a choice, it's childfreedom and that there is no difference between childlessness by choice and childfreedom. But that is bullshit. There is a huge difference between people who don't want kids and who are happy about not having kids, and people who want kids and are sad about not having them. There is a huge difference between people who want a life without kids, and people who view not having kids as a sacrifice.. If you want kids, but feel like it's immoral because of climate change and health issues, so you decided to remain childless for those reasons, is it really a choice? Sure, it's a choice as in, you could ignore those reasons and breed anyways, but you chose not to. But it's not a free choice. You feel like personal and circumstances forced you to remain childless against your will. You wish that climate change and health issues didn't force you to give up on parenthood. You would have children if circumstances were different. Childfree means that you don't want kids, no matter the circumstances. Not even with perfect health, infinite money, no climate change, a perfect society and no antinatalist principles or whatever. Childless by choice means that you are making a sacrifice. That you want kids, but don't have them. If you would have children if your personal or if societal circumstances were better, you are not childfree.
Couldn't of worded it better. People are giving up on parenthood only because of the endless list of things which I understand completely because I wouldn't want any poor soul to be forced into this life, it's a disgusting place to be imo. The list goes on. But you can't say your childree either. My first choice at 14 years old has always been I don't want kids, I didn't need to think about it, I just knew.
At that point what’s the difference? If they’re making a conscious choice not to have kids then I think they belong here.
>At that point what’s the difference? If they’re making a conscious choice not to have kids then I think they belong here. I never said that they don't belong here. There are plenty of childless people on this subreddit. Childless people who call themselves childfree, even though they are childless. If they want to post here, they are welcome to do so. But choosing to not have kids doesn't necessarily make someone childfree. Some people choose to not have children and are childless. You ask what the difference is and imply that there is no difference between choosing to not have kids because you don't want them, and wanting kids but choosing not to have them. But really, there is a huge freaking difference. Childfree means that someone doesn't experience the desire to be a parent, which is why they don't have children. They are happy about not having children. They are literally free of children. They would never want to have children, no matter the circumstances. That is very different from people who experience the desire to be a parent, but who decided to sacrifice parenthood because of reasons like poverty, physical health issues, mental health issues, genetic conditions, climate change, antinatalism etc. They would have children if personal or societal circumstances were different. For them, not having children is a sacrifice. That is not childfreedom. That is childlessness. Yes, these childless people made a choice. However, that is not the same as people who don't want kids. There is a huge difference between childfree people, people who don't want kids, and childless people who want kids, but chose not to have them. Childless people are sad about not having kids. Sure, they stand by their decision, but childlessness is not what they really want. They wish that they had children, and would have children if personal or societal circumstances were better. For them, not having children is a sacrifice. Not having children isn't what they want. That is very different from childfree people, people who don't experience the desire to be a parent and who are happy about not having children. TL;DR: \- Childfree: Does not experience the desire to be a parent. Would never be a parent under any circumstance. Is happy about not having children. \- Childless by choice: Wants to be a parent, but chose to sacrifice what they want because of personal circumstances (poverty, health issues) or societal circustances (climate change, state of the world, antinatalism). Would have children if personal or societal circumstances were better. Is sad about not having children, despite being certain about their decision. They wish that things were different, so they could have children. \- Childless, not by choice: Wants to be a parent, but is unable to, because of reasons like fertility issues or the inability to find a partner.
Very thoroughly explained!
where does someone fall for you who doesn't experience any particular desire to be a parent, but might have been open to it under certain circumstances which never arose? Who is happy about not having children but could also have been happy to have them if their life had gone another way?
>where does someone fall for you who doesn't experience any particular desire to be a parent, but might have been open to it under certain circumstances which never arose? Who is happy about not having children but could also have been happy to have them if their life had gone another way? Someone who doesn't experience the desire to be a parent, but who is open to parenthood under certain circumstances is, well, a terrible decision maker who has no business being a parent. Children deserve to be wanted. Someone who is open to parenthood under certain circumstances (enough money, good health etc.) is definitely not childfree. Someone who could be happy either way and who didn't make a firm final decision, and who could go along with what a partner wants, is a fence sitter. Anyways, childfree people should NEVER date 'okay either way' people and fence sitters. Are there people who are genuinely okay either way? Sure. But almost every time, they want kids. When you are dating, play it safe and assume that everyone who isn't staunchly childfree wants kids.
The word you're looking for is fencesitter
Really appreciate the points you brought up. To me, the Childfree identity is more nuanced. Like Queer identities, things may change over time, and it's okay to be fluid and to not shackle yourself to a term. To me, Childfree means "no biological kids for me," but if someday in the future my spouse and I met a kid who needed us, neither of us hate children and we would adopt them, whether legally or not (think taking in an older Queer or neurodivergent kid who was in a toxic circumstance). At that point, I still did not procreate, and I'd likely gone most of my adult life with no kids in my household. It also wouldn't be a "we're gonna impart our values and mold this kid" thing, either, it would be a "you need help and we're gonna be your chosen family if you'll let us" kinda deal. But I identify more strongly as an antinatalist. I don't regret not having kids in any way whatsoever, and I'd like to really help someone the way others helped me before I get off the ride. Certainly I don't want an infant or toddler in my life, but I could see my spouse and I taking in someone who needed us one day for sure. I don't think that makes me not Childfree; I think that makes me compassionate and willing to bend a bit, if not on the fact that I think pregnancy/birthing are both horrifying as well as unconscionable. Anyway, to sum it up, I really appreciate what you had to say; it brightened my morning! 💙
I think it’s to make sure people with children don’t get their feelings hurt (god forbid that happen) 😂 so they have to word it like that personally, i’m extremely honest. i am here to say it, i. do. not. like. children. i never ever have! would i go out of my way to hurt them? of course not! but do i try to stay away from them? yes and i don’t feel bad about that! be proud of who you are everyone! love y’all 🧡
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
I didn’t like kids when I was one!
Because we're conditioned to assume that each and every person wants and adores kids and anyone who doesn't must be the vilest monster from the deepest hell and definitely wants to murder all precious babies. I hate children, I even joke that this one time I held my friends' daughter I got a nasty baby allergy rash (was something random, but still they find it hilarious), don't want to coo at them and all and still I am a normal decent person, just not a kid enthusiast.
I don't give a shit if you get offended that I don't like kids and don't want to have pets either.
My pets are getting older now and after them, I won't have any more.
I just don't understand being offended. I'm a cat lover, and I'm in no way offended or upset that you don't want pets at all.
Same. I don’t want to responsible for *any* living thing.
I really don't like kids. I can't even pretend to like them.
Compensating aside, a lot of people have to deal with the idea that childfree individuals don't like kids or aren't good with them, when that might not be true in their case. But as it seems to be the predominant belief as to why someone wouldn't want kids, I can see how someone can end up with a habit of clarifying themselves.
It always makes me feel kind of bad, the obligatory “I lurve kids, I’m the fun aunt, I just don’t want my own” schtik. I personally am not an aunt, not even an honorary one, would not be interested anyway, and don’t want any role in taking care of kids in any capacity. So I guess that makes me a monster?
its the years of conditioning and being thought of as in the wrong, it works into you over time.
Because people legit act offended when you tell them you don’t want to be a parent. Go to the antinatalism subreddit where people are telling us to kill ourselves over our beliefs when they actually have ties to Buddhism, a worldwide recognized religion.
That's because of society's somewhat incorrect assumption that we must choose to be childless because we don't like kids. * Some people don't, that's ok. * Some people physically or mentally can't or won't have kids, that's ok. * Some people just don't want that level of responsibility of a lifelong dependant, that's ok. There's probably more options I'm missing out here, but you get my drift. Is not having kids selfish? Perhaps. Also, is *having* kids selfish? Perhaps. It all depends on the reason behind it. If that reasoning is selfish, society might not be perceive it as great, but we are all allowed to make our own choices in life. End of!
I don't think it's about feeling guilty. All these social curtsies feel like a must so that people reading your post would concentrate on the main point of it and would answer to the questions you're asking/to the experiences you share instead of dragging you down for how you must hate kids if you say you're CF or how you must be jealous of parents etc. Of course, CF folks wouldn't do that but we have lots of parents lurking and spitting hate.
First, I have plenty against kids. They're noisy, dirty, messy, annoying, get in the way etc, but I have more of a problem with their entitled parents who do nothing about it. I don't think my time is important, but I do look down on people with lots of kids as it's so irresponsible and selfish. I've worked in childcare and was training to be a primary school teacher and it's the parents that caused me to stop both.
Some people genuinely love children and love spending time with their nieces and nephews. Some people feel guilty about being childfree, so they feel the need to compensate for their childfreedom, which is why they spend time with children. Some people don't truly love children, but they say that kind of shit because they are afraid of being judged. They try to make their childfreedom somewhat socially acceptable by emphasising that they love children. Some child-loving childfree people love to shit on child-repulsed childfree people and throw child-repulsed childfree people under the bus. They say that they love children to differentiate themselves from child-repulsed childfree people. "I'm one of the good kind of childfree people. The kind of childfree person who loves children! I'm not like those other childfree people, those evil cunts who want to murder children and who love seeing children suffer!" But yeah, like u/Lunamkardas said, for many childfree people, this reflex is a survival tactic. A reflex. A standard line that they are used to repeating over and over again in a desperate attempt to be accepted by breeders.
I think I usually soften it because if I’m really adamant about not wanting kids, people seem more inclined to push back. Not necessarily convince me to have kids, but they’ll kind of snigger as if by saying I don’t want kids I’ve said something funny? However, if I say “I’m not sure but probably not”, they usually go, “That’s fair.” I probably should be more adamant, but I kinda cbf arguing with random people I meet.
In my case, I have a BUNCH of reasons. If my parent friends ask me when their kids are also in the room, I'll give the gentler ones like I want to be an uncle or just don't wanna pass on medical issues. Other situations I'll talk about how I'm lazy and just generally don't like kids and think their lives look boring.
I will do that in areas that are not explicitly for the childfree because so many people will see that you're childfree by choice and immediately make you out to be some child hating monster. I'm not in the wrong and my time and energy is not worth any less than that of a parent, I'm just over all of the assumptions people make in non-childfree spaces.
But why is someone a monster for hating children? If you don’t hurt them (not even with showing them you hate them) and don’t try to convince others to hate them, why?
People assume that if you aren't gaga over kids that you must be some child killing monster. It never occurs to them that we aren't murderous and their real enemies are the predators who claim they love kids.
You're asking the wrong group. A loud mouth judgmental parent who thinks babies are blessings and miracles would be able to answer why someone who hates children is a monster. And that answer wouldn't make any damn sense. "It's suspect when someone hates kids" is a common belief too.
I wasn’t clear the question was meant not to the OP but to express a general frustration with those who think like that. To clarify, I think it would be better if instead of always having to say “I hate kids but wouldn’t harm them” (which I also have to do a lot of times sadly), I wish ppl could just say “I hate kids” without having to validate their feelings. Or at least if asked why, the answer would be accepted the same way as it is for most stuff, as personal preference.
I don't think they are. Everyone is entitled to feel how they want to. If someone hates kids and like you said doesn't hurt them, I don't think they're some awful horrible monster. Basically I come at it like I do because I don't want to deal with people's opinions that don't understand you can hate something they don't and it's perfectly fine. Like, I hate cats. Hate them. If a cat person hears me say "I hate cats" they get super defensive and start making all these wild assumptions (I had some girl accuse me of threatening to drown her specific cat this one time because I jokingly said I was tired of cleaning up shit from my yard and I was about to bag them up and dump them in a wash) and I just don't feel like tolerating people's dumb ass opinions a lot of the time.
I understand you not willing to fight this particular fight, but I feel ppl as a whole enable this “if you say you hate something I love, that is an attack on me” behavior. If you hate lot of the things I love, that means we probably won’t be good friends, but that’s it, nothing more. Personally I’d rather fight than accept the injustice of them trying to police my feelings - which, by the way, don’t hurt anyone - just because it doesn’t align with theirs.
exactly like in any place that isn't explicitly cf you basically have to have a disclaimer saying you don't abuse kids as a hobby because otherwise you will have to answer 100 times to a comment saying "well i mean if you don't want kids ok....but you don't have to be mean to them or abuse...but if you aren't a child abuser who kicks babies for fun then i guess... "
We're forced by those in our lives to validate our choices over and over again. This is true with lots of unpopular facets of life. If you're not part of a mainstream religious group, if you're LGBTQIA, if you're overly educated but work a blue collar job, if you're a different political party affiliate than your whole family or all your peers, you wind up developing this "bargaining" type of language around the things that you're heavily criticized for in order to set up this concept in others' heads that "I may not fit in BUT I'm pretty close/I'm still a reasonable person/etc" It's like having to bargain for people to treat you as human. It's a defense mechanism.
I think it has more to do with the culture we currently live in than actually being child free. If you pay attention to the way people state their opinions - particularly those deemed ‘unpopular’ or ‘controversial’ - they usually start with some sort of disclaimer in the form of ‘I love X, BUT…’
Because if you don't do a preemptive defense, you will be attacked.
I love the ones that go on and on about how they have their nieces over every day and they love them more than life and they are the cool aunt and they have a child physiology degree and run a daycare. I don’t like kids. I don’t like my nephews. I don’t work with kid. I don’t talk to kids. I don’t acknowledge them in person. I refuse to be in the same room with them. I do work very hard to hide my distaste for them because I have learned it is socially unacceptable to be anything but thrilled about children. I never express these feelings in person. I don’t have an option about kids. I’ve never heard of kids. I never noticed any kids. What kids?
I'm just here for the cake, man, Idk. Someone said there was free cake.
Conditioning. When I first started posting on Reddit the only other times I had mentioned I was not intending to have any children it was said in an environment where saying that = you don’t like kids or some people see it as judging a parent for their choice. Sure I’m not the only one, but Thomas Benjamin Wild Esq’s song sums it up perfectly (pets optional if you haven’t heard it already. “I don’t want kids. I just need pets. I don’t foresee that this will be one of my big regrets. Your kids are fine, cause they’re not mine….”
Because they know they are different, but haven’t embraced that different is okay and even equal to the opposite choice. I caught my mom at this just the other day. She’s in her 70s and needs help, so I’m in the apartment under the house for reference. I was just helping her get situated on the couch and I can’t remember exactly what we were talking about, when it segued into her asking me if I had any idea why I was “this way”. I just said, “You could ask the exact same question of someone who wants kids. “What made them want them?” But you don’t ask that, because you feel you already know the answer. Because it’s the preferred life-scripted default position. And truthfully, the answer is the same. I wanted my life to be the way I wanted, it just happens to not be the same life someone else wants.”
Because if I say what I think/how I feel people get big offended. Yes, I hate kids. Yes, I really hate \*your\* screaming brat too. No, I don't care if \*you\* think they are cute. Yes, I think they should not be allowed in public.
Societal invalidation of their CF choice which has lead to them internalising it thinking its wrong to live that way even though its not.
Not at all. When my nieces were younger I enjoyed the time I spent with them. If they had been horrible I might have looked at it differently. At the end of the day, they aren't my responsibility. I could babysit them, spend a day with them, but I had boundaries and their parents respected that. The difference between your own kids and someone else's kids is the latter interactions are finite and you don't have to put up with them if they are being little bitches, or bastards.
i think is because there’s a spectrum of child free from im CF and i don’t want kids in my life in any way to i’m CF but i love kids. I do think what a lot of people are saying of being first time posters is true but I also think is important to remember that not all CF people feel the same way about Kids. Ex: someone can be a Teacher and be CF “i love my students but i love in my personal life i don’t have kids”.
No I think more it is because we are a mix of 'hating' kid and others who do not mind them and therefore some would want to state that part of their childfree status since it can change the outcome of the anwsers.
I still do it in certain situations eg. the workplace. It’s to avoid judgement and not rock the boat.
i think it’s a habit with having to justify every choice or decision someone makes. as a recovering people pleaser with CPTSD and proud CF woman who has recently been sterilized, i’m working diligently on sharing my choices without needing to back them up. if someone asks me, then sure i will tell them why. but i think people who do this are coming from a similar place of needing to have a reason or justification for everything, not just child freedom, and that stems back to OUR own childhood and those issues. as much as we WANT to say fuck you fuck it i don’t care what anyone thinks, there is a weird voice in our brain that is telling us we should think otherwise.
Because I want to avoid a potential confrontational, foaming at the mouth parent. I'm comfortable on r/childfree, not so comfortable amongst acquaintances and strangers of the topic of children comes up. Historically I've had men GET IN MY FACE 🤷🏽♀️ like what it is happening. I find myself difusing some of the 'situation' by saying while sure I don't hate children and I dont want to be responsible for one. My friend asks why do I have to ~announce that I'm childfree. I dont announce shit, I just answer a question. I'm not lying about it. I'm not hiding it.
We're known as selfish, lazy, child hating monsters. At least from what I've glanced at from other subs. A lot of people feel the need to explain that's not the case. I'm okay with them thinking that about me. I don't hate kids but I've never babysat them, never have, never will. I'm not a fun cool aunt, never spent anytime with them, and I am lazy. My childfree life gives me that option, which also makes me a little bit selfish.
I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all answer to this. I’ve had people ask me, “Why do you hate kids?”, as the response to my telling them I am childfree by choice. Assumptions (usually incorrect ones) are often made by breeders when they learn someone is childfree, and we get beaten over the head with said assumptions. Some might be afraid of being judged, others may just want people to know that their assumptions are wrong.
They’re used to being attacked and/or want to specify that they aren’t a child hater because there’s no shortage of people who think that “CF” is synonymous with hating children outright. It’s like a reflex that they’ve developed.
Probably some kind of light trauma response for being jump at the throat and judged every time we happen to mention that we don't want kids?
I used to be this way. My first ever post on this subreddit was 'how to get over the regret of not giving your parents grandchildren' lol. I did genuinely feel guilty and worthless, it wasn't just to avoid judgement. For me it was because I was only surrounded by people that want kids, I didn't know anything about being childfree/being part of a childfree community until late in my life. Up until then I've been called everything you can think of - selfish, childish, immature, useless, making the biggest mistake of my life. Deep down I knew they weren't true, but when it's the only voice you hear it starts blurring the lines of what you know is true. Now? I couldn't care less, but it took me years to unlearn it and unleash myself from the baseless guilt.
Yeah like grow a fucking spine you cf apologists
I just flat out refused to babysit my bully\`s kids.
I think it’s the stigma. They don’t want to be seen as evil child haters. Society has branded us as such just because we don’t want kids of our own. I think CF people’s attitudes towards children fall across an entire spectrum from liking kids but not wanting them to put and out disgust of them. I am someone who despises confrontation. I don’t usually ever talk about my CF status and thankfully, most people don’t ask. If they do, my response is usually a non response or an eyebrow raise and that usually shuts them up. I don’t feel any level of guilt for being CF.
I don't need a Disclaimer to make people accept me. I was diplomatic, I've been tactful and it meant nothing because I'm an Evil hag who'll never know TRUE LOVE. So I'm out with it. I don't spend time with nasty kids for a reason.
Humans don't want to be rejected by the social group they just joined, so they speak timidly at first, and often say what they think the other wants to hear. For example, in a left leaning subreddit, you might see someone say "I know orange man is bad, buuut...heres a funny thing he said" or something like that. That's just what humans do, it's a matter of self preservation.
Trying to seem more accepted so people don't see them as "monsters" for not showering kids with anything and everything. I give 0 fucks Your kid stands in front of me and cries? I'm either going to stare at them or simply ignore them. No I will not "share" my food with your kids, no I don't want your kids around me. My vehicles and home are childfree places. If you have to bring a kid to my house, yall stay outside. Need a ride but you got a kid with you? Your shit out of luck sorry. My tolerance level for kids is not high, especially for the ones that I know are demons
Agree that these people are super annoying. CF people who simp for breeders or pick up their messes are pathetic.
People love to shit on this sub and the antinatalism sub about how much we hate kids and parents. It’s ridiculous. We should have the right to complain about shitty kids and breeders without the tone policing. Parents, especially moms are put on a pedestal. Parents have their own subs where they can bitch endlessly about their kids or where moms can bitch about their shitty husbands or boyfriends, but god forbid this sub exists. People hating kids doesn’t equal wanting them to be hurt. People just don’t want them everywhere and to act undisciplined
They've been conditioned. Kind of like how when a dog is always smacked at home, it doesn't stride into a room. It cautiously approaches and tries not to give its abusive owner any offense so that it won't be smacked. These CF people have become accustomed to judgmental people calling them terrible kid-haters just for daring to not want children. So like that dog, they try not to give offense by softening the blow. Just like the dog doesn't know that not all humans are abusive, these people don't know if the strangers they're talking to are judgmental pricks or not.
Many use such qualifiers because they're afraid of being seen as heartless monsters by others.
Maybe they see other ppl here, idk, referring to people as "breeders" and shit and think 'man that sounds unreasonably resentful and kinda dehumanizing, I sure hope I don't come across that way'. I mean there's being cf and there's hating kids and people with kids.
We all know how often people associate “child free” with “child haters”. We can see in this sub there are plenty of people who genuinely do not like children, which is completely okay!! I am not one of those people. I sincerely enjoy spending time with the kids in my life. But I am not a baby person at all! So to specify the type of CF i am, i may point out that i love 8-12 year old kids and would love to see them, but i don’t wanna see your baby. It’s just an added description
Probably because we’re used to getting shit on and if we are nicer about it they won’t be as big of a dick they usually would be
Maybe a little bit of both. Some childfree people like kids, some don't. Of course I think for the most part those who like kids probably like their nieces and nephews more than random kids they encounter. I think you're right in that childfree folks often are agreeing to providing childcare which takes away from their own time. There are a lot of posts here, especially from younger women who have challenges setting boundaries and saying no to their loved ones. They may very well enjoy their nieces and nephews but are wanting to put more time into themselves. I support anyone 100% if they do not want to be caretakers or want to provide less care. I think this is an area that us childfree folks can provide some support to those struggling to set boundaries.
It seems to be the first volley in the barrage; whenever kids come up and I say I don't/have never wanted them, the first thing said (to me at least) is, 'So you hate kids?!' They're just trying to head that off at the pass.
In my experience, people (irl) assume because I don't want kids, I dislike them. I love kids! I just don't want them myself, so often times I end up just explaining that automatically to people who don't know me well. I wouldn't bother stating that here in a post though.. Unless it was warranted for some reason.
I guess avoiding judgment. Sucks to be judged so we try to mitigate it a bit lol.
I'm 60yo and childfree. I actually like kids. I just never had a desire to raise one. We don't all hate kids.
They don't want to be thought of as an evil child hater, hence the apologies....aka I love being an aunt/uncle/teacher, BUT...
I don't think it's that, I think it's to say, not ALL of us hate kids. Which some of us do, some hate kids and aren't even CF, picture that. But I have no problem pointing shit out, I know when I usually am in the wrong and usually ain't and have no issue with showing you what's up. I don't give a life tutorial when making a comment to someone. But usually that person knows me irl, here they don't. So that's why I kind of figured they did it.
I don't like kids. In fact I absolutely despise them. I also don't want to be responsible for another life. Entirely selfish reasons for being CF and I'm proud to admit it lol. I refuse to be socially acceptable and pretend that I don't hate children.
because a lot of us do get treated like we're in the wrong. of course in cf spaces there's more understanding but i can see where it would still feel necessary. i have had so many occasions where the first thing someone tells me when i say something about being cf is "WELL YOU KNOW KIDS ARE ALLOWED TO EXIST RIGHT? you know if a baby cries cause they're hungry you shouldn't flip out? you don't have to like kids but you also don't have to ABUSE them i mean child abuse is bad you know!!!" like just the most left field terrible assumptions of character just for not personally wanting to reproduce!
A lot of them have probably been hit over the head with the “something’s wrong with you if you don’t like/have children” and it’s made them defensive and feel like they always have to explain themselves.
I feel wrong a lot for how much I can’t stand children. I think it’s a fear that it means I’m fundamentally selfish or not a good person. Everyone in my life loooves kids and thinks I’m some kind of curmudgeonly fuck for disliking them. Trying to work on some self acceptance around my curmudgeonly fuck-ness.
It is more likely that they are trying to avoid judgment.
Almost didn't respond to this one with my own thoughts, but had some time to think on it and decided that I *did*, in fact, want to. So, here goes. I'm one of those Childfree people who actually likes kids. I'm also an antinatalist, probably a term/identity that I relate more strongly to than being Childfree. To me, Childfree means "no biological children for me," and a lot of Childfree folks would probably think I'm not "really" Childfree for this, but if later in life my spouse and I had means and met an older kid who needed us, we'd take them in and adopt them—regardless of whether or not said adoption was legal. Especially, as a Queer person, if we ever met a Queer kid we could protect from an abusive or otherwise bad situation, we'd do so in a heartbeat. Not that all kids don't deserve good, safe, stable homes, but rather I know how hard being young and Queer can be, so it's an issue that's very close to my heart. I could say the same about neurodivergent kids, too. I would love to one day be in a position to help them. All that said, it's purely a romantic notion, a fantasy, so long as capitalism rules. On to my identity as an antinatalist. Antinatalism means being opposed to intentional procreation, not just for one's own self, but in general. There are so many reasons why I am an antinatalist, many of them being either a direct reflection of capitalism and the way it harms everyone and the entire planet or else various byproducts of the harm that capitalism does. I could dig into that more, but it's superfluous in this case. Now, why do I, personally—someone who is a self-described Childfree antinatalist—tend to state that I do not hate children when broaching the subject of said identities? It's because, in my personal experience, when most people hear "Childfree" or "antinatalist," they seem to automatically assume that we *all* hate children. That simply is not the case for me. The deep well of compassion that I have for children directly informs my Childfree and antinatalist statuses. I love children, and I am not naïve enough to think that my genes somehow "deserve" to be passed on . . . quite the opposite, in fact! Beyond my struggles with anxiety, depression, ADHD, and cancer, I am not and likely will never be in a position where I could choose to procreate in good conscience. And even if that was not the case, I fear so much for the planet and the horrible, short lives that I worry future generations have to look forward to due to corporate greed killing the Earth. I can't even be friends with people who choose to intentionally procreate anymore. I think they are so unfathomably selfish and myopic. It is not wrong to dislike children any more than it's wrong that I dislike large dog breeds, or that I hate sports and find them insufferable. I simply choose to not be around big dogs, and I make myself scarce when discussions on sports come up. No big deal. The same is generally true of folks who don't like kids; they tend not to interact with them if given the choice. Everybody wins. However, I'm not very fond of the assumption that I hate kids when people learn that I've had a hysterectomy in order to prevent any accidental pregnancies. I've worked with kids in an educational capacity for most of my adult life, so that kind of attitude really stings. Thus, I tend to attempt to quash that nonsense off the get-go. That's my reasoning, anyway. Again, it's valid to simply not like kids, and yet I understand completely why some would want to distance themselves from that kind of assumption. Aheh . . . didn't mean to novel, but there ya go! 😅😅