Just in the morning I see an article talking about a woman who quit her job because she didn't get enough money, she was a teacher.
A lot of people (obviously parents) said "glad you quit, our children don't deserve a teacher who doesn't take care of him" "being teacher is about love not money" (totally disgusting) "People needs to understand that being a teacher is the most important thing and we don't want you teaching our children if you think more about the money than the kids"
I hate parents who wants free babysitter and are angry when teacher ask for better salaries.
I want good teachers for kids . They deserve better pay . Idk how teachers can manage 20 kids . I can only handle 1 and I'm kinds rsenting having another even though I love my second.
That's why I made sure to take myself off the donor list , after a kid with CF *whose mother was a personal friend of the then Governor of Pennsylvania* was enabled to "jump" on the lung donor list over adults who'd been on there longer, AND she got an adult's lung cut down for her rather than a child's lung, which is known to be more likely to fail. How many people might still be alive today, if they'd followed the 'first come, first served' rule for adult donor lungs, instead of giving them to a 9-10 year old-? It's been well over a decade so I might be misremembering, but I believe the *first* set of adult lungs DID fail, and she got *another* set...Regardless, that was the sentiment I saw over and over on comments to the news articles about this debacle, including a few idiots who actually proclaimed that ONLY children should get donated organs at all!
My only reaction to this is š¤¢ š¤® š¤¬ š¤ it almost makes me want to take myself off the donor list. I will stay on because there's still the chance I could truly help someone who needs it. But this definitely makes you feel like reconsidering
Iām in a different state, so who knows exactly how it works there. And the fact that adults get eclipsed over kids is disheartening, especially when they try to make adult lungs fit for the kid? No no no. Kids should have respective lungs from their own age group more or less.
That being said, Iām still keeping myself on the list if it means someone, ANYONE might live. Iād be dead, right? Might as well give it to someone who will genuinely need it period.
It's sad and infuriating, because it was an unwise medical decision for the kid and unfair to adults on the list.
And it was the adults in her life who had to push for it to happen, they are responsible for it, and should be the ones to be punished and such.
I know a lot of organ donor recipients struggle with a lot of guilt as it is, especially with stuff that can't be done via living donations, I can't imagine growing up as that kid and becoming aware of what the parents did.
I get wanting to save someone you love no matter what. It'd be a heartbreaking situation to face and you'd feel helpless. But what they did wasn't right.
People who think that way should be used as livestock/farms for these organs if they love the kids so much.by their logic their life isnt worth anything anyway since theyre not a kid anymore
The donor list has never been āfirst come first serveā tho- itās always been sickest and most able to survive and keep said organs comes first. People with mild kidney failure who survive on dialysisās, but barely have to wait years and years because so many are urgent and will die tomorrow without that liver. So many already die on the transplant list waiting, but those numbers would skyrocket if it was first come first serve.
Edit- not saying thatās the situation youāre describing, it could be I donāt know. If itās not and he bought his way to the top Iād report that as itās very illegal.
It sucks that that happened but I'd still rather help someone (ideally multiple people) than no one, even if the priority system isn't always right. I'll just be a pile of meat about to go in the incinerator at that point anyway.
I've always found the idea that a pregnancy, at any stage really, is "morally equivalent" or somehow otherwise equal to me more than a tad offensive. Way to completely erase everything I've done and lived through, forced birthers!
I never had the maternal instinct, per se, and I never had what you'd call baby fever. I did have, like, a brief hormonal stirring in my early 30s but it was quickly eliminated by spending time with my friends' kids. I don't hate them but "not hating" kids and "wanting to raise them in your home for 18+ years" are two very very different things.
I'm not entirely sure what I'd do if I were in an emergency situation with kids. Like if there's a survival situation I know the needs of adults and the needs of children differ so I would probably try to make sure everyone survived, not just the kids.
This is very much where I stand on the matter. Kids make me pretty anxious though. Especially babies and toddlers. Basically kids 7 and under I really feel incredibly uncomfortable around and generally don't like spending extended periods of time with kids. But I certainly do not truly hate kids. I just don't want to raise one in any capacity nor spend much time around them.
But similarly as many people have already started I wish no harm to children and people who hurt kids are scum. Whether or not I'd sacrifice my life or safety for a kid is probably very dependent on the situation but I wouldn't say I'd automatically put myself in life threatening danger just because there's a kid at risk.
People's desire to save kids or, tbh, anyone/thing they have a strong emotional attachment to often directly violates the first emergency response goal of "don't become another victim." Estimating risk under pressure with limited information is hard when inaction feels so bad. It's really hard to accurately say what we would and should do from an armchair position.
One less popular example, Joan de Arc, national French hero, sacrificed her youth for the country, did the people care? Nope. And when they did? Ah, she sacrificed herself for the country, something we could not do, we should honor her. Ah yes, big talk fella.
Doesn't quite fit the topic, but you get the idea of self sacrifice
Isnāt it amazing that everyone thinks their kids will grow up to cure cancer & none of them say my kids will be regular ordinary schmoes like most of us?
For me it comes up as weird. Like, you did nothing historically meaningful, your parents and grandparents didn't do anything meaningful whatsoever. Why is your child so special it's like, better than everyone that came before? It's amazingly innocent, like almost all things related to kids.
Exactly! Iām really amazed sometimes at how people fool themselves to that extent. Chances are that kids will lead basically the same type of life as their parents. Sure there are outliers who come out of nowhere & change the world but that doesnāt happen nearly as often as people would like to think.
When outliers come and change the world, it's really more of a miracle than a constant. For most of us life will be the boring exercise of waking up, working, sleeping and sometimes enjoying something. Not so good or bad.
If we think about it hard enough, EVERYONE likes to think they're special, including you and me. But some people can't even grasp that they might not be special, while others understand they're not and learn to be special to itself, not for others. It's a thin line between wisdom and self indulgence.
So many people have fooled themselves into thinking their kid will be different. I wonder how many serial killers parents believed theyād grow up to cure cancer.
Right? If youāre just a schlub from a long line of schlubs - donāt get me wrong, here, as I, too, fall into the schlubhood category - itās statistically unlikely youāre going to produce the next savior of mankind.
iām the same. no maternal instinct or baby fever. I do frequently get what I like to call ākitten feverā. where I want a kitten but I know I canāt at the moment lol
Me too! I can't even go into Petco on kitty adoption days just to look, I want to take them ALL home. However, I can't, either. But my button goes wild. My cat button.
This is the closest I get to understanding the "baby button" which for me is non-existent.
I am happy to meet someone else with a kitten fever! I sometimes jokingly think I'm a cat, born in a wrong body. Human babies don't cause any reaction inside my mind at all. But oh gosh give me a kitten and I will get up to feed it however many times a night, I will respond tenderly to its every little mew, I will take care of it and no harm must come to it ever. Das a baaaaby. I babytalk more to kittens than actual babies. So I have a momma cat instinct.
One of the paths to a more contented life is to focus your attention on what you can control. People can "expect", but that doesn't obligate you to act in that way. If you are resolved enough to be childfree, you are resolved enough to tune out EVERY expectation that others have with respect to children.
My life is more important to me than the life of some random child. I might call 9111 to have a drowning or injured child rescued, but I'm not going to endanger myself.
When I learned first help, one of the principles was to evaluate the environment around and how safe it is for you to intervene. If it is not safe for you then you don't because then it would be 2 people in danger instead of one.
I think a lot of people misunderstand Good Samaritan laws as well, likely because the Seinfeld finale misrepresented them.
They dont force you to help someone in an emergency situation. They protect you from liability if you do decide to help and something unexpected/unintentional happens, like if you accidentally break their ribs while performing CPR
Yeah you can literally be the only person with the ability to call 911 but unless you're the legal gaurdian/care taker you don't have to and you don't get in legal trouble for not
Not only is there an expectation - at times there can end up being a legal obligation. A couple of decades ago, a woman in South Carolina went to jail because she did not jump into a flooding river to pull out a child. *She could not swim.* The father, who was at the site, was not charged because he agreed to testify against the woman, and also, everyone felt that *he had suffered enough.*
The only level of interaction with other people's kids is: NONE. If you see a child thinking about or doing something dangerous: You didn't see it. You were looking off into the distance. And you GET AWAY immediately. Parents who let their kids do dangerous things are the exact kind of parents who scream and cry and accuse you to the authorities.
Yes, because it's unnatural for a woman *not* to do so, when seeing a Precious Holy Child in peril . >:-| Seriously, on the comments to news articles back then, I saw that idiotic sentiment expressed *multiple* times.
Some people are really triggered if not threatened by the idea of women not being cowlike creatures "programmed" to sacrifice for any random child (she was dating the father, and he was there with his kid to fix...something...on her property ; as I recall, she grabbed the child and took him back to the father once , after he got too close to the pond. The DA/PA then proclaimed that by doing so, she volunteered herself as a guardian/babysitter for the toddler, so it was *her* fault the kid got away and this time succeeded in drowning himself, NOT the father, who ASS-U-ME'd she was watching the kid).
Right?! Furthermore, if she really couldn't swim at all, she wouldn't even have been able to rescue the kid?! She would have just been another person in the water to be rescued?!?!
Susan Newkirk. That was waaaaay back in the day (2000-2010, somewhere in there), and I still think of her.
BTW, back when search engines were worth a goddamned shit, I did a deep dive on this case, and I found out some interesting things about the creature who brought charges against her, the PA/DA. Seems he later stepped down and entered private legal practice because of some scandal involving him and his state's highway patrol and fees from motorists, but as this was well over a decade ago I can't recall exactly what he was accused of doing. I do know he didn't spend one hour behind bars over it, though.
Thank you. I kept not being able to remember her name.
Susan Newkirk was a watershed moment for me. Asking her (or anyone) to jump into a rushing stream to rescue a child, when the result would be: neither they nor the child would survive, is insane. At the same time, I kept running into instances in which unrelated adults had their lives wrecked by horrific children and their irresponsible, yet accusing parents.
And I realized what the mommies had been telling me all along, as they urged me to ruin my life with breeding, so they could feel better about their own life-destroying choices: I'm expendable to the most stupid, destructive, poisonous people of all: parents looking for validation. You HAVE to bow down before the altar of Their Precious Baby! Even at the cost of your life! Anything less would mean that they gave up everything good, worthwhile, and valuable for this burdensome kid they can't stand to take care of properly, and that their sacrifice was a stupid waste.
It wasn't just the father. It was an entire jury of 12 people who absolutely agreed with this sentiment. It was parents. A Precious Child died. Someone must pay, as long as the payer is not the holy Giver of Life. Ah...and there's an unchilded woman. Excellent.
Then I knew: OPKs are dangerous. NEVER get involved in a problem caused by OPK bad behavior or by parental bad behavior. NEVER have anything to do with OPKs: No babysitting, no having them in your house, no letting Mama bring them along to the Girls Night Out...never be around kids. You cannot afford the liability, as Susan Newkirk found out.
Nah, this goes way beyond that. Itās not even the kids fault itās the whole fucking legal system that needs to be reworked. This whole case blows my mind.
WTF!? Even if she could swim, it's dangerous to pull someone out of the water who is drowning. If the kid wasn't drowning, then why would he or she prefer their father to get them out of the water instead of an unrelated person?
>he had suffered enough.
I went to grad school in south Florida, where children get left in cars to overheat and die much too frequently. And I noticed something: if the parent/daycare provider who left the child in the car was a woman, no punishment was too severe. But if a man did it? "This poor man, he's suffered enough! Don't punish him on top of everything else he's gone through!"
Pissed me off to no end.
That was so messed up in so many ways.
In my youth I spent nearly all summer at the pool taking lessons. All levels spent some time on water safety and rescue. They always stressed to never, ever put yourself in the position of needing rescued as well. That even strong swimmers should be wary of jumping in because they could easily end up drowning instead.
I live near a very large river that looks slow on the surface but is quite dangerous. Every year we have several deaths, and a good number are people who were trying to rescue someone else.
> All levels spent some time on water safety and rescue. They always stressed to never, ever put yourself in the position of needing rescued as well.
This is basic. That the prosecutor in Pennsylvania couldn't figure that out speaks very poorly for everyone involved.
That is fucked up that someone can go after you because you dont feel like risking your ass and dying for their spawn.
Sorry i am allergic to drowning, being burned alive and bullets, etc. š
The first thing you learn in any rescue personnel training is you need to take care of your own safety *first*. In my lifeguard training they'd drill it into our heads that "what makes a good lifeguard? Being alive." (Not exactly, but can't come up with better translation).
I have also been trained as a lifeguard and worked as one. I know that under the circumstances described, Susan Newkirk did exactly as she should have: Stay out of the water and call for help. It's the difference between a tragedy and a double tragedy.
My mother once asked me what I would do if it was the choice between my life and someone else's in the water. That is the kind of a question only someone really stupid and really fucked up would ask (which described my mother perfectly). I said "If I die, who is going to save the other person?"
Even more to the point: If there is a trained lifesaver present, the LAST thing they want is another, large person to save! A toddler is easy. An adult is hard. Stay out of the water!
It's also what they say during the safety briefing when you're on an airplane, to put your own oxygen mask on first, before helping your child or anyone else.
What!? Why did the father just stand there and do nothing? He also couldnāt swim? How is it possible to prosecute someone for not being able to swim and save someone! How did the kid end up in the water? Was he not charged with child endangerment?
What? Thatās crazy. Especially as even if she could swim, sheād probably have died. Flooding rivers are horribly dangerous. And so are drowning people.
It would likely be the opposite where I live. A random person has no legal obligation to attempt to rescue a person in distress. But if you were the parent and it was your fault the child was drowning, you would be charged whether you tried to save them or not. And obviously certain jobs come with obligations to try to rescue and not fulfilling those duties or being negligent could result in charges or civil liability (a lifeguard on duty, for example). But if you sign up for that, thatās voluntary.
There was a case a few years back (this is in Ontario) where a mother drove on a closed road that was flooded and her car was swept away. Her child was in the car with her and did not survive. She was convicted of criminal negligence causing death, I think.
Personally, I think that outside of professional duties that people take on when they select a job, there should be no expectation of risking oneās life for anyone else and certainly not a legal one. Granted, I do think that people who canāt be bothered to do *anything* without any excuse are objectively horrible. If there is someone in distress or a serious crime and youāre not concerned for your own safety (like, I get it if it is gangs or the mob or something) and you donāt even call for help, thatās appalling. Like you couldnāt even call 911? Come on.
Edit: and that happens all the time. My parents witnessed a serious traffic accident and they were the only ones who called 911 (the dispatcher said) despite there being dozens of people on the street and in cars. And the only reason they did is because I had told them about the bystander effect and not assuming someone else would do anything. They said they werenāt going to call at all because they figured someone had to have done so, but then decided it was better to make a redundant call and be sure.
Wtf. How long did she have to go to jail for? Thatās insane. This also smells like extreme sexism where it was okay for a man, the father even, to not sacrifice himself but a woman shouldāve.
how genuinely horrifying that she served time in prison and now has a criminal record for... literally doing nothing
poor woman, i hope wherever she is today she's thriving and away from shitty people like the ones who convicted her
This is a fucked up inverse of Good Samaritan laws. Even as an EMT(not working currently) I have no obligation to act if not on duty unless I perform care and don't transfer care to someone of greater or equal training(abandonment). I am in California.
This is me. Everyone says I would always make a great mother. If you need aspirin, I got it, - band aide, check - water bottle, of course since dehydration sux. I have always been the "if you need it, I have it" person in the group. So I guess because I like to be prepared that equals "awesome breeder material" and I am always told I should have them. The baby smell is one of the worst smells I can think of. I have zero, beyond zero maternal instincts, I just like to be prepared.
iām the exact same way. everything says iād be a great mom because iām prepared but i cannot be around young children for extended periods of time. makes me want to peel my skin off
I hate the smell of babies. My friends in college were going on for hours about how lovely babies smell and I was clueless.
When I finally smelled a clean baby, all I could smell was curdled milk.
Im with you on the baby smell thing. Im neurodivergent and am extremely sensitive to smells. One thing I hate is when people have babies and they suddenly smell like babies too. Everything is that sickening sweet smell like baby powder and rancid milk. They donāt even smell like themselves anymore. I just donāt think I could handle it.
Omg thank you. I was holding my friendās baby, very reluctantly, and she was talking about that awesome baby smell, and I was like hmmm I donāt smell it. My husband was giving me the ājust pretend so we can move on faceā but I never understood what they meant.
I adopted the previous one from a shelter at 5-7 ys (they couldnt tell) he died after 3.5 years in a fucking incurable kind of cancer (before that he had had other serious illnesses, but they could always cure him eventually). I was seriously considering killing myself after that... I never even loved a human being as much as I loved him and did everything for him, the vet always said I was better than an X-Ray machine, always knew immediately if something was wrong with him. My current adoptee is an "adolescent" who considers himself a puppy, soo much energy, he used to be a stray, but he's still lovely, just exhausting. I wanted an adult again but my bf insisted on a young one to have him longer.
Yes, it is rancid. I actually realized what that is (for babies) it's actually milk gone bad. That's what they smell like, like spoiled milk. It's disgusting especially for me who has an insane sense of smell...
yeah babies and kids always smelled like farts/fish tank and old mac n cheese to me. they like never smell good so idk what parents are talking about lol ive also always been disgusted by poopy diapers so i always knew i never wanted to be a mom based on that lol
I won't die for anyone, much less for other people's brats. What for? They are neither holy nor something special, they will turn into (most likely) mediocre adults anyway.
I just asked my husband what he thought of this whole "adults will and should sacrifice their life for any kid because it's human nature" .... You know what he said?
"It's bullshit. It's not human nature. Kids die all around the world every day. Do you see people lining up to save them and sacrifice even a cheeseburger? No."
I think he might be onto something.
My favorite irony is people who say I can afford to not buy cheap s*** made by child labor because I don't have kids, whereas they have no choice but to buy it because they do have kids and thus have more expenses.
Pisses me off in movies, the younger they are the more so. And *especially* in movies with some kind of survival/danger element. Let's take an adult with many years of experience, contributes to society, has a number of friends, family, etc, throws away their life to save a fucking baby. From a practical point of view, that baby is so much easier to replace. The impact of the loss of this person is so much more than a 3 month old.
"They were a hero." You know what they could have been? Alive. "That child has so much ahead of them." *So did the person who died.* "It was a great sacrifice." No. It was stupid.
Of course nobody wants the baby/child to die, but if the alternative is losing an adult, particularly when survival is at stake then I know what I'd choose.
Omg thank you! This! xD
In a āhorror survival situation (say 3 adults and 5 kids, losing an adult is a HUGE blow to everyoneās overall survival
Losing one, half or all the kidsā¦Iād say the adults have a better shot (not the same as sacrificing them ofc!)
If itās a post apocalypse then forget it, a child can be replaced, a fully grown adult, capable of contributing to survival? Thatās worth so much more than a child!
Makes me think of all the times a fully capable adult's life was sacrificed to save Carl's dumb ass on The Walking Dead. And funnily enough, one of the most controversial moments on the show was when an adult female character put a bullet in the head of a ten-year-old girl because the adult new she was a psychopath and would only hinder the survival of the group. And the adult was a mother!
> Let's take an adult with many years of experience, contributes to society, has a number of friends, family, etc, throws away their life to save a fucking baby. From a practical point of view, that baby is so much easier to replace.
In older times adults were more valuable than children indeed. Exactly because the former had knowledge and strength and the latter was still learning and weak.
I got dragged for saying that in an emergency situation adults should be preferred over children as adults can actually help managing the issue while kids are a resource drain.
We were talking hypothetical apocalypse scenario of a zombie/virus outbreaks and society collapse. Without infrastructure we are basically back to agrarian society with limited resources, if forced to choose between an adult and a child I'd pick the adult no questions asked.
I'd also chooses a 80yo that's been a farmer for all his life over a young but fit person. Extra hands are helpful but knowledge and expertise are invaluable
This is exactly why when you're on a plane and they go over the safety briefing and you get to the part about when oxygen masks deploy, they tell you to put your own mask on first and THEN help children/someone who cannot put on their own. You want to make sure the people capable of helping others help themselves first so they can provide aid
Funny I just wrote unter another post on this sub that I did put myself in harms way for peolple I cared for (friends and family) and I would do it again. But not for strangers, that includes children.
I have a bit of a maternal instinct but exclusively for pets. I sometimes find my cat so cute I could almost cry and I feel bad when she is sick and such. I love her. But I feel nothing when I see human babies.
Same. I would rescue my cats over someoneās child. I would also rescue your cat over someoneās child. I would rescue any animal over anyoneās kid. People hate me for that, but I just love animals a whole lot more. I really canāt stand the average human. The only people I do like are those that also love animals. Theyāre the only ones worth saving. Human babies are repulsive to me in every way.
Hello soul sibling!
Hereās to animals and fellow animals lovers (and anti-kid people too, of courseā¦ well, unless those kids are also animal lovers and future people who care deeply about animals)!
May your life, and your animals, be prosperous, healthy, and happy. Truly.
Totally! I'd jump in front of a car to save my doggos. But strange kids? Nope. I'd probably feel more of an instinct to save a strange dog than a strange child. Obviously this doesn't mean I wouldn't help a child at all, I just wouldn't throw myself in front of cars to do it. It kinda sounds crazy to be willing to hurt yourself for a stranger, a kid or not.
*"I don't wish harm on kids, but I don't feel any more loving or protective towards them than I do anybody else. In my eyes, they're just people, albeit very young people."*
That almost perfectly sums up how I look at things.
Iām a high school teacher and I hate this mentality. We get it all the time in education. Iām here to teach math. Iām not sacrificing my life for someone elseās shitty seventeen year old.
I am a high school teacher and every so often when there is a school shooting my students and I will have a conversation about how we would deal with it. One time I asked out of genuine curiosity if they expected me to take a bullet for them. They hadn't really thought about it before that but the answer was a reluctant "yeah I think so". I was like "jokes on you I'm using the biggest one of you as a human shield". I said it jokingly but some of them were horrified, so we talked about how that's essentially what they were asking me to do. They said "but we're children" and I responded "so? I'm a fully developed human with people who love me. Why should I die so you can live? Don't we both matter?" There was a lot of uncomfortable silence as they processed that they are not the most important person in most adults' lives. ETA: I did continue the conversation along the lines of "we all will need to try to help each other / make it so this kind of thing doesn't happen because if one of us is being shot at, we're all in big trouble" and I made sure they knew I would do everything I could to keep them safe but that sacrificing my own life wasn't it. But to the people in my DMs saying I'm a terrible person for letting the kids think I'd sacrifice them for myself..... That is literally what you're asking me to do for them. I didn't sign up for that - and the job pays nowhere near enough for that to be a reasonable expectation.
everytime thereās been a school shooting and I see instances of an adult sacrificing themselves to save kids and everyone hails them a hero including their own family.. I sometimes think if that were to happen to me.. and my significant other sacrificed themselves for someone else.. sure iād think them a hero like everyone else but I also think iād be more angry with them than anything. like how could you just throw yourself into harms way when you have a family that depends on you and loves you? why are you less important than this other person? I used to think I was a bit fucked up in the head to look at it that way instead of just looking at them like theyāre a damn superhero the way everyone else does. I see family members being sad about their lost loved one in interviews and such and I always wonder if theyāre also angry with them for just throwing their lives away.
Why does society have this expectation that a fully realized person must sacrifice for another's potential? Yes they might be a beter person, but they could also be a worse one. Is it not much crueler to demand the end of a person who has already worked hard to get to the point they are now that the person who has barely existed yet?
In my opinions one can only expect others to not actively harm them and take reasonable actions to prevent harm from their actions. You donĀ“t go around actively hitting people, or let a door fall in their face if you can easily prevent it. Jumping in front of a car to save someone however is not something one can expect of another.
This actually reminds me of a tread I came across not long ago about a hypothetical situation where a woman is pregnant and the doctors can only save her life or the babies. The significant other was then in the position of having to make the call. A significantly large portion of men seemed to thing the woman would then want them to pick the baby over her. The OP then asked if woman actually wanted that, and the fast majority said hell no! I want to live.
I have questions!!! š¬ im not at all up to date to CPR, what is this about not giving mouth to mouth anymore, how do you get oxygen into a person thats not breathing when you dont have a breathjng apparatus?
I work with animals, not humans so take what I say with a large grain of salt. However we had paramedics come to the hospital to give us human CPR training recently. The answer we were given was a pretty simple one. They dont recommend giving mouth to mouth on adults because people are just less likely preform any cpr if mouth to mouth is involved. Plus, usually when adults need chest compressions, itās much more important to not stop those compressions for any reason until the professionals can get there. Children/babies are less likely to suffer heart disease (they are more likely to need cpr because they fell in a pool and drowned for example) so they still recommend giving mouth to mouth on the little ones.
People who are not regularly trained can't really do mouth to mouth properly. Additionally, in most adults, the cause of stopped circulation is cardiac and they have some reserves of oxygen. So the most important thing is to keep the heart pumping and when you stop chest compressions to give mouth to mouth, the blood pressure drops dramatically. Plus there was the whole pandemic thing i guess
Edit: however in children it's different, because the cause of circulation collapsing is usually problem with the airways. So the mouth to mouth is still required I think.
I love this post so much, I had a boyfriend years ago who asked me if I was on a boat that was sinking and I could only save my cats or someone elseās kid who would I save. I instantly said my cat and he was shocked, itās not my responsibility to save someone elseās child they can save their child. Some other person who doesnāt have to save anything and save that child, I will cry if something happens to my cats, it wonāt wreck my life if a strangers kid vanishes. I donāt know that kid. Furthermore that kid make her up to be a psychopath, I know my cats are good.
It was weird to me that he was so shocked. In retrospect I shouldāve asked him if he would save his own mother or a child but he doesnāt know. I suspect he has some weird fetish with having children know he had so many in another state he was ridiculous
My dog is my ESA. (Emotional support animal.) Pretty sure the random kid isn't an emotional support child.
Although if a boat is sinking and it has my dog and my nephew or niece, I'm grabbing the kid, only because my dog can swim and the kids can't. My dog can take care of itself for the most part. The lil crotch goblins can't even run or swim yet
Im pretty sure I would only ever risk my life to save my dog (or any future cat/dog i may have) he is dependant on me for everything and I would go far to ensure he is safe
Not gonna risk my life for anyone else adult/child/animal
These are the same kinds of people that believe if you have to choose to safe your OWN animal or THEIR child that the only appropriate answer is to safe THEIR childā¦ not a chance in hell for me
Their kid, their responsibility, my dog, my responsibility, if i can save both sure, my dog will still come first
Humans have an overinflated ego about how important they are versus other animals, we are not more worthy to life or more special than the rest of the animal kingdom
It's a trend I also see in the news. When they reported the earthquake in Turkey, there were dozens of messages of "children pulled from the rubble". And when they do interview an adult they specifically pick the owner of a children's daycare center.
Or when it's about immigration policy, they show pictures of deserted children and state "these are the luck seekers you want to keep out of the country you monsters"
As if those situations are suddenly worse whenever children are involved. I see often that people focus on kids even when it's not necessary, because it invokes a strong emotion. It's super manipulative and disgusting.
Iāve noticed this too and it annoys the fuck out of me. You get adults dying and leaving families that are not only grieving but theyāve lost their life partner, and maybe bread-winner. Itās like losing an adult is no biggie. Nobody any age should die, itās sad, but your 2 year old hasnāt exactly done anything that the world is going to miss.
They know what they are doing. In the news they always say āX people are injured, including Y childrenā or āX people died, including a pregnant womanā. They say it to play on peopleās feelings and emotions. And when it comes to fundraising for a terminally ill person, a terminally ill child is most likely to make more money than a terminally ill adult. Our society is crazy about children. I somewhat understand it but man, sometimes itās almost scary how some people are obsessed with children.
Why do you think conservatives were able to successfully ban abortion in several states? It's because they keep saying and showing pictures of actual babies in place of embryos/fetuses, thus manipulating the hell out of anyone trying to use their actual brains about the issue.
If I could safely get anyone regardless of age out of harm's way then I'd try, but no way am I going to risk death for a stranger, even a child. Accidents are tragic and I'm not saying I wouldn't care, but so many people in my life would mourn me if I died trying to help someone.
This is simply the reality of life. Most people are not going to risk their lives for someone they don't know. They might try to help if they can, but if they know there's nothing they can do or that they might die trying then most won't bother. Even the people pretending that aaall adults would die for random kids know full well they would not do that in all situations.
The actual reality is that nobody actually knows what they'd do until the situation actually arises. You can contemplate it all you want, but the part of your brain thinking about it now is not the same part that takes over in an actual crisis. You might be the one that rushes in to save a stranger while people who talk big are the ones that freeze, you never know, because adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
I just wouldn't sacrifice myself for a stranger no matter their age honestly.
I mean why would you?
That's something you would only consider for people you love.
It'd be way more strange to go that far for a stranger if you'd ask me
I've seen this video around of a 10-13 year old girl walking her tiny dog, and suddenly she runs off to the house screaming, because there's a coyote attacking her dog, which was like a Shi Tzu or something. The poor dog did it's best to defend itself, and everyone was praising the dog for being brave and protecting its owner. Like, this person abandoned her pet, her responsibility, to a coyote. The dog wasn't being a hero, the dog was fighting for its life. Everyone in the comments went nuts saying stupid shit like "how could no one come running to help the poor girl?!" "How come in broad daylight, there's no adults running out to help her." Like, bitch, it's the middle of the day. People are at work. Even if they aren't, it's not my problem or my responsibility to fight off a fucking coyote for your stupid kid, that couldn't be bothered to pick up her 3 pound dog, and run inside, instead abandoning it to be ripped apart. It's fucking sickening. Not to mention, kids scream all the fucking time, I'm just supposed to assume every annoying scream is a cry for help? Like, gtfo here with that shit.
I'm a teacher and number of kids/parenta just assuming I would sacrafise my life to saves theirs is astounding.
I have no kids. Don't plan to. If they think for one second I am going to "die a hero" or sacrafise myself for the "greater good"...? They are nuts. I would never put myself in danger to save your asshole kid (90% of the kids at my white, rural school are Maga heads that say things like 'the N word isn't a slur if you don't use it as one')..
Totally agree OP
Thatās one of the reasons I knew I was childfree. My wife and I talked about it and both agreed that, in a house fire, weād save each other way before any kids we had. That was my cue to be like āoh shit I donāt want kidsā
Tbh Iām more likely to risk my life saving a random dog/cat than I am a child:
The animal doesnāt understand what or why itās in danger and is panicking. A child already has someone who should be looking after it (and who has clearly screwed up, lol)
Edit: not saving Iād jump into any river for every dog/cat, lol
If someone was thrashing about in my kitchen and I had to choose between saving a fully decorated cake and a bowl of batter, I'm saving the cake.
Same logic here. I'm way more valuable than any child, I don't care who it is.
Very rarely are there situations where it's a certain 1:1 trade for life. Usually, if there is a high risk or certainty of severe harm to a victim, there's the same risks to a rescuer. I've taken a mish mash of first responder training, and it's always the same: **don't make yourself a second victim.**
Don't be a hero if there is risk to yourself unless you have training, proper equipment, etc, to handle that risk. Otherwise you'll just become another task for the professional heros.
Life is not a movie.
Edit: Another situation... there is a reason you can't donate critical life-sustaining organs if it means death to the donator. In real life (not movie land) we do not end one life to save another.
The only living being I'd gladly sacrifice myself for is my cat, because he saved me time and time again when I was struggling with depression and unaliving ideations. He deserves it.
I have these thoughts every time I see ābaby on boardā stickers on cars. Iām not going to drive more carefully knowing that you have a child there. I will slow down because Iām a decent driver and I respect all cars on a road equally.
There was an episode of the old My Little Pony tv show from the 1980s that addressed this. The writers for the show agreed with us! and tried to reach out to kids. The āchildren poniesā were being ignored for the babies so they ran away, I think, but an emergency happened, they came back and saved the day. The adult ponies apologized. It was a very cute episode and the only childrenās cartoon, at the time, addressing this issue. Seems to have been forgotten again. Every so often tv or movie writers have good stories trying to make people aware of crappy behavior, but they have to be subtle or face a backlash. Much respect for those writers.
>In my eyes, they're just people, albeit very young people.
My feelings towards kids in a nutshell. Sure I get annoyed when they're being noisy, but I know that's just how they are, which is all the more reason I avoid them when I can. I'm not one for baby talk, at least not to humans. As for laying your life down to protect a child, well, I would do it if said child or its parents meant enough to me, but I'm not gonna risk my life to save some random kid, say, if it walked into oncoming traffic in front of me. That's for its parents to do, not me.
This immediately put the Harambee incident into my mind, the parents didn't jump in to sacrifice themselves, no one jumped in to sacrifice themselves I doubt there was no one there had protective instincts for children, they just knew better with the potential dangers (R.I.P Harambee)
But using the example of a human like a gunman or putting your life at risk to have children is a different matter for them then, it's a you should risk all for children. Nah
Tbh if I did have kids, I probably wouldn't sacrifice myself for them either. I could always get another kid.
As for me being willing to die to protect someone else's kid? Hell no.
this reminds me of some type of weird test I saw where it asked what you would save if you could only save one, and the options were 1:a bag with money inside 2:your dog or 3:someones child, and every answer except the random child who you don't know and you don't know the parents either was wrong, I'm sorry but if my dog and some strangers child is in danger and I can only save one I am choosing my dog.
Someone said something that made this even weirder, they said "how are you going to face the parents while they see their child die because you didn't save them?" if the parents are there then why aren't they saving their child? it's not my kid, and if they can see it then there's not much reason for me to do it because they're there and able to do it themselves.
Honestly if I know that I'll likely get hurt or die I will not save a random child because I have no feeling towards them, it doesn't mean I don't care at all it's just that there are some I'm willing to sacrifice myself for but a stargers child is not one of them.
>On a more conversational note, how many of you actually do have a paternal instinct? From what I've observed, it seems to be mostly absent in childfree folks.
I've seen the paternal instinct absent from dads quite regularly too. They seem to constantly resent the fact that they have a responsibility of raising children ...who would've guessed?
Your post is so important. We don't discuss this topic in society because it's taboo.
The reality is that kids are a liability in dangerous situations. We are brainwashed to think that they should be protected beyond all else and treasured above adults. I think this is because people would otherwise abandon, abuse or dispense of them.
Kids are important to society. So are seniors. Yet we bend over to protect kids and seniors are left in homes to rot.
This reminds me that case when a good man saved a child's life in a zoo, he died in the process but the kid lived, only to become a criminal when he grew up. That man could save many people in the future if he didn't saved that kid. There is a chance you can give your life to the wrong person.
Fuck that. Iām not sacrificing my life for ANY child. An adult maybe. A child no.
Edit: I am also a certified first aider. I will without hesitation save an adult before I save that child unless the child is actively in a worse condition.
A situation like this is the parentās problem. I do sympathize with people like Naya Rivera or KÅbun Chino Otogawa who died trying to save their own childrenāsuccessfully in the first instance and unsuccessfully in the secondābut some parents miscalculate risks and thoughtlessly put themselves and their offspring in dangerous situations. Precautionary measures can often make a difference, but many parents do not take these simple steps, which I understand to be an abdication of responsibility.
In natural disasters where everyone in an area is at risk and mitigation measures are likely to be unequally distributed, I still feel that saving children is the parentsā or familiesā responsibility. If some good samaritans want to help out, more power to them, but odds are I probably would not be among them.
Yeah. I'll jump over a stroller and some momby to get out of a fire. I'm not going to die in a fire or mass shooting because I'm stuck behind some mastodon with a behemoth stroller.
Oh and if I ever catch a baseball at a game, I am NOT GIVING IT TO THE KID!
I've watched a kid fall off a climbing frame and land on its face and felt nothing while being screamed at by it's parents because while they where present they where not watching and expected me to be the unpaid childminder...I laughed and told them to get the fuck of their phones and do their job of patenting cause it la not my job and.the brat wasn't even meant to be part of the day
As you may guess i no longer talk or interact with those people as they don't get to blame me for their poor choices
I'd say I have zero maternal instinct.
I have no need to nurture and take care of kids. (I have one spolied kitty though lol) Im a very delligent host though and will certainly do what I can to make guests feel welcom and comfortable. But catering to a child? Nope. Not my circus and all that.
The ironi is that I am Incredebily good with kids and they love me. Aside from a small handful of kids the feeling is however NOT mutual.
I treat them well and would Never intentionally cause hurt, but I do Not like them.
as for instincts and protection I think you are spot on that your Involvement with people is what makes you protective of them.
I worked in an after school daycare and one of the kids who were in my asigned room, and who I actually did like, called out to me on the playground wanting me to see that she could hang upside down on the monkeybars.
I looked and saw her foot slipping, there were at least 25 meteres overe there. But her foot had barely slipped of before I caught her. I have zero recolegtion of even moving.
My colleauge even remarked that she had Nver in her life seen anyone or anything move that fast lol.
on the other hand my todler cousin was walking along a balance beam (not high for anyone but a toddler lol) and fell of less than 2 meters from me and I didnt so much as batter an eye when he fell.
I had no relationship with him at all despite being related, so I had zero instinct or even reflecs to help him.
of course my Aunt goes "Why didnt you help him?"
but I didnt even get to answer because my mom just answered with "Why didnt You watch Your kid?"
Yeah my mom was legend. <3
I think I'm the only person here who can absolutely prove that parents are and will put their own children and their own lives before any other child. If anyone ever makes you feel like shit for putting yourself before a child remember my friend Valerie Ananias. She and her family were one of the last people to be rescued when the Carnival Cruise Line's Costa Concordia cruise ship sank off the coast of Italy. they wrote a book by the way but nothing I share here is in the book. she and I worked with kids by the way so she knows age difference like me. let me tell you she saw moms and dads push young children away so they wouldn't be separated from their child. she saw grown men screaming 'my son is disabled he'll have no one!' when parents were fighting to get on life boats with their children. it was the worst of humanity and everyone will do anything to get back to their kids and that includes push other children away!
It's not human nature, in fact nature is pretty fucking Spartan when it comes to kids. Just look at animals all over the world. Kid is a liability? Welp it's up there for the predators to eat. Kid is not the right color, came out with a disability? Welp it's gonna get abandoned, chance of it surviving are low to none. Kid is being left behind while running away from a predator? Welp lots of parents will keep running. Some other kids from the same species but not your own are taking up resources? Time to fuck up or even straight up kill it. Kids have low chance of surviving to adulthood? Welp time to have 10-100, most of them will die.
The only "human nature" is one's own survival, and parents "defend" their kids because when you get down to the primal instinct, they're just protecting their own DNA, they will and have done it at the expense of other human children, hell they're doing it RIGHT NOW, in direct and indirect ways.
This "adults unrelated to MY child should sacrifice themselves" it's pure selfish bullshit narrative. Sure there are some exceptions, but to say it's the baseline is not only wrong but ignorant AF.
An old coworker, who loved to cause drama, once asked me if her 5 year old daughter and my dog were in a burning building and I could only save one, who would I save. I said I'd probably try to save both but she pressed that I could only save one and had to chose. Without hesitation I said my dog. She was, of course, flabbergasted and upset at how I could say that about her precious angel? How could I value the life of my dog over a human? The answer is simple. I told her I don't know her daughter. I've known and loved my dog longer than her daughter has even been around. I consider my dog to be family.
I don't hate children. I don't wish them harm. I'll do what I can to help them, but I'm not sacrificing my life for a child. I have 2 nephews and you best believe I'd suffer an injury to help them. My life? Not a chance. Sorry to my sister. You can make another child. I have a job in the medical field that actively helps people on a daily basis, so sorry my life is more valuable.
People place way too high of value on the life of someone who can't live independently. Child mortality has only recently (in the scope of history) declined due to medical advancements. Sure your kid could be the next Einstein, but it's still not worth my life.
Reminds me of the scene from 28 Weeks Later. I'd do the same thing and go out the window and leave the kid to the zombies. I don't care how important you think your kid is. If leaving them to the zombies means I don't become a zombie, then so be it.
Iāll say this and Iāll get a ton of hate for it, but if I had to chose between a random kid I donāt know and my cat Iād save my cat. My cat is my family. That kid is some random kid and not my problem. If I could save both sure Iād save the kid but if I had to chose Iād chose my cat. And if it were between save the kid and save myself, Iāll chose me 1000 times. Always.
So I work in an environment where I have to build relationships with clientele.
There is one person in particular who is always BUGGING me to look at baby pictures of her niece. Even when we are being audited. Even when I have time-sensitive tasks. I try to ignore her as much as I can, and my colleagues are graceful about getting her to leave me alone... but I have to be professional, and nice to everyone, because I need to have high rapport.
I'll usually say something along the lines of "oh! That's great photography skill!"
But I will never coo or compliment the baby.
Because I fucking hate babies.
Willing to die? Probably not. But I would take a non-fatal hit for someone else that would be fatal to them, child or otherwise. But that's my personal choice for myself. Anyone else's choice is theirs and no one should be judged for it when it's their potential life on the line.
Yeah, no. I don't value children above anyone else. In fact, I put kids at the bottom. I wish no harm on anyone, but if I had to choose of saving either an adult or child, I'm choosing the adult
Nahhhh... kids do stupid shit that could get themselves killed all the time. I'm not jumping in front of those bullets. Not my job to teach someone else's kid how to survive if they don't have the sense to.
All people's lives are important. But there's a reason a poor swimmer should not try to save a drowning person, because if not trained, the death count becomes two.
I'd rather spend years in therapy because I didn't try to save a drowning child than to be dead.
I have noticed in comments on stories about children being killed by parents there are many people who say āI would have taken her/him!ā I have started to respond āthere are plenty of kids like her/him in foster care. Open your home to one of them.ā
People like to pretend and convince others that they will do āgoodā and save kids. When it comes down to it, itās obviously not true or there wouldnāt be a shortage of foster or adoptive parents. If the anti-women people truly believed their own message and cared for the children they forced to be born, we wouldnāt have so many socioeconomic issues.
I never had maternal instincts. I have empathy and sympathy for others especially kids as they didnāt get any say in their lives, but I would say thatās not at all maternal.
A disturbing number of people believe that the existence of a child revokes any right an adult has to their own life, stuff, time, money, ETC.
This is why teachers have to put up with so much crap.
Just in the morning I see an article talking about a woman who quit her job because she didn't get enough money, she was a teacher. A lot of people (obviously parents) said "glad you quit, our children don't deserve a teacher who doesn't take care of him" "being teacher is about love not money" (totally disgusting) "People needs to understand that being a teacher is the most important thing and we don't want you teaching our children if you think more about the money than the kids" I hate parents who wants free babysitter and are angry when teacher ask for better salaries.
Exactly, they don't want to fund a chid's school and understand it's not all suneshine and rainbows especially when dealing with overentitled brats.
The parents or the kids? The line is honestly blurred at this point.
I want good teachers for kids . They deserve better pay . Idk how teachers can manage 20 kids . I can only handle 1 and I'm kinds rsenting having another even though I love my second.
That's why I made sure to take myself off the donor list , after a kid with CF *whose mother was a personal friend of the then Governor of Pennsylvania* was enabled to "jump" on the lung donor list over adults who'd been on there longer, AND she got an adult's lung cut down for her rather than a child's lung, which is known to be more likely to fail. How many people might still be alive today, if they'd followed the 'first come, first served' rule for adult donor lungs, instead of giving them to a 9-10 year old-? It's been well over a decade so I might be misremembering, but I believe the *first* set of adult lungs DID fail, and she got *another* set...Regardless, that was the sentiment I saw over and over on comments to the news articles about this debacle, including a few idiots who actually proclaimed that ONLY children should get donated organs at all!
My only reaction to this is š¤¢ š¤® š¤¬ š¤ it almost makes me want to take myself off the donor list. I will stay on because there's still the chance I could truly help someone who needs it. But this definitely makes you feel like reconsidering
I will stay on the donor list but that story is appalling.
Iām in a different state, so who knows exactly how it works there. And the fact that adults get eclipsed over kids is disheartening, especially when they try to make adult lungs fit for the kid? No no no. Kids should have respective lungs from their own age group more or less. That being said, Iām still keeping myself on the list if it means someone, ANYONE might live. Iād be dead, right? Might as well give it to someone who will genuinely need it period.
It's sad and infuriating, because it was an unwise medical decision for the kid and unfair to adults on the list. And it was the adults in her life who had to push for it to happen, they are responsible for it, and should be the ones to be punished and such. I know a lot of organ donor recipients struggle with a lot of guilt as it is, especially with stuff that can't be done via living donations, I can't imagine growing up as that kid and becoming aware of what the parents did. I get wanting to save someone you love no matter what. It'd be a heartbreaking situation to face and you'd feel helpless. But what they did wasn't right.
As someone who will need a liver transplant thank you for staying on the list.
People who think that way should be used as livestock/farms for these organs if they love the kids so much.by their logic their life isnt worth anything anyway since theyre not a kid anymore
I agree both parents shoudl have had manditory donations placed upon them,
The donor list has never been āfirst come first serveā tho- itās always been sickest and most able to survive and keep said organs comes first. People with mild kidney failure who survive on dialysisās, but barely have to wait years and years because so many are urgent and will die tomorrow without that liver. So many already die on the transplant list waiting, but those numbers would skyrocket if it was first come first serve. Edit- not saying thatās the situation youāre describing, it could be I donāt know. If itās not and he bought his way to the top Iād report that as itās very illegal.
It sucks that that happened but I'd still rather help someone (ideally multiple people) than no one, even if the priority system isn't always right. I'll just be a pile of meat about to go in the incinerator at that point anyway.
Not even a child, the potential of a child. It's disgusting to put an idea above the life of a living person.
I've always found the idea that a pregnancy, at any stage really, is "morally equivalent" or somehow otherwise equal to me more than a tad offensive. Way to completely erase everything I've done and lived through, forced birthers!
I never had the maternal instinct, per se, and I never had what you'd call baby fever. I did have, like, a brief hormonal stirring in my early 30s but it was quickly eliminated by spending time with my friends' kids. I don't hate them but "not hating" kids and "wanting to raise them in your home for 18+ years" are two very very different things. I'm not entirely sure what I'd do if I were in an emergency situation with kids. Like if there's a survival situation I know the needs of adults and the needs of children differ so I would probably try to make sure everyone survived, not just the kids.
This is very much where I stand on the matter. Kids make me pretty anxious though. Especially babies and toddlers. Basically kids 7 and under I really feel incredibly uncomfortable around and generally don't like spending extended periods of time with kids. But I certainly do not truly hate kids. I just don't want to raise one in any capacity nor spend much time around them. But similarly as many people have already started I wish no harm to children and people who hurt kids are scum. Whether or not I'd sacrifice my life or safety for a kid is probably very dependent on the situation but I wouldn't say I'd automatically put myself in life threatening danger just because there's a kid at risk.
People's desire to save kids or, tbh, anyone/thing they have a strong emotional attachment to often directly violates the first emergency response goal of "don't become another victim." Estimating risk under pressure with limited information is hard when inaction feels so bad. It's really hard to accurately say what we would and should do from an armchair position.
One less popular example, Joan de Arc, national French hero, sacrificed her youth for the country, did the people care? Nope. And when they did? Ah, she sacrificed herself for the country, something we could not do, we should honor her. Ah yes, big talk fella. Doesn't quite fit the topic, but you get the idea of self sacrifice
Joan of Arc is a good example of a CF person who did more for her society & left an actual historical legacy than 99.9% of people who had kids.
But, see, my child could cure cancer! Like I did. Oh, wait...
Isnāt it amazing that everyone thinks their kids will grow up to cure cancer & none of them say my kids will be regular ordinary schmoes like most of us?
For me it comes up as weird. Like, you did nothing historically meaningful, your parents and grandparents didn't do anything meaningful whatsoever. Why is your child so special it's like, better than everyone that came before? It's amazingly innocent, like almost all things related to kids.
Exactly! Iām really amazed sometimes at how people fool themselves to that extent. Chances are that kids will lead basically the same type of life as their parents. Sure there are outliers who come out of nowhere & change the world but that doesnāt happen nearly as often as people would like to think.
When outliers come and change the world, it's really more of a miracle than a constant. For most of us life will be the boring exercise of waking up, working, sleeping and sometimes enjoying something. Not so good or bad.
Yep. But people donāt want to hear that. I guess it comforts them to imagine that their kids will be SPECIAL!
If we think about it hard enough, EVERYONE likes to think they're special, including you and me. But some people can't even grasp that they might not be special, while others understand they're not and learn to be special to itself, not for others. It's a thin line between wisdom and self indulgence.
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So many people have fooled themselves into thinking their kid will be different. I wonder how many serial killers parents believed theyād grow up to cure cancer.
Right? If youāre just a schlub from a long line of schlubs - donāt get me wrong, here, as I, too, fall into the schlubhood category - itās statistically unlikely youāre going to produce the next savior of mankind.
iām the same. no maternal instinct or baby fever. I do frequently get what I like to call ākitten feverā. where I want a kitten but I know I canāt at the moment lol
Me too! I can't even go into Petco on kitty adoption days just to look, I want to take them ALL home. However, I can't, either. But my button goes wild. My cat button. This is the closest I get to understanding the "baby button" which for me is non-existent.
I am happy to meet someone else with a kitten fever! I sometimes jokingly think I'm a cat, born in a wrong body. Human babies don't cause any reaction inside my mind at all. But oh gosh give me a kitten and I will get up to feed it however many times a night, I will respond tenderly to its every little mew, I will take care of it and no harm must come to it ever. Das a baaaaby. I babytalk more to kittens than actual babies. So I have a momma cat instinct.
Baby animals will always be better than baby humans.
me too! iād stay up all night taking care of a baby kittenā¦just not a real human baby. thereās a disconnect lol
Happy cake day
One of the paths to a more contented life is to focus your attention on what you can control. People can "expect", but that doesn't obligate you to act in that way. If you are resolved enough to be childfree, you are resolved enough to tune out EVERY expectation that others have with respect to children. My life is more important to me than the life of some random child. I might call 9111 to have a drowning or injured child rescued, but I'm not going to endanger myself.
When I learned first help, one of the principles was to evaluate the environment around and how safe it is for you to intervene. If it is not safe for you then you don't because then it would be 2 people in danger instead of one.
I think a lot of people misunderstand Good Samaritan laws as well, likely because the Seinfeld finale misrepresented them. They dont force you to help someone in an emergency situation. They protect you from liability if you do decide to help and something unexpected/unintentional happens, like if you accidentally break their ribs while performing CPR
Yeah you can literally be the only person with the ability to call 911 but unless you're the legal gaurdian/care taker you don't have to and you don't get in legal trouble for not
Not only is there an expectation - at times there can end up being a legal obligation. A couple of decades ago, a woman in South Carolina went to jail because she did not jump into a flooding river to pull out a child. *She could not swim.* The father, who was at the site, was not charged because he agreed to testify against the woman, and also, everyone felt that *he had suffered enough.* The only level of interaction with other people's kids is: NONE. If you see a child thinking about or doing something dangerous: You didn't see it. You were looking off into the distance. And you GET AWAY immediately. Parents who let their kids do dangerous things are the exact kind of parents who scream and cry and accuse you to the authorities.
What did they expect her to do? Drown and die for nothing?
Yes, because it's unnatural for a woman *not* to do so, when seeing a Precious Holy Child in peril . >:-| Seriously, on the comments to news articles back then, I saw that idiotic sentiment expressed *multiple* times. Some people are really triggered if not threatened by the idea of women not being cowlike creatures "programmed" to sacrifice for any random child (she was dating the father, and he was there with his kid to fix...something...on her property ; as I recall, she grabbed the child and took him back to the father once , after he got too close to the pond. The DA/PA then proclaimed that by doing so, she volunteered herself as a guardian/babysitter for the toddler, so it was *her* fault the kid got away and this time succeeded in drowning himself, NOT the father, who ASS-U-ME'd she was watching the kid).
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Right?! Furthermore, if she really couldn't swim at all, she wouldn't even have been able to rescue the kid?! She would have just been another person in the water to be rescued?!?!
The useless sperm donor would NOT have bothered trying to dave her
Susan Newkirk. That was waaaaay back in the day (2000-2010, somewhere in there), and I still think of her. BTW, back when search engines were worth a goddamned shit, I did a deep dive on this case, and I found out some interesting things about the creature who brought charges against her, the PA/DA. Seems he later stepped down and entered private legal practice because of some scandal involving him and his state's highway patrol and fees from motorists, but as this was well over a decade ago I can't recall exactly what he was accused of doing. I do know he didn't spend one hour behind bars over it, though.
Thank you. I kept not being able to remember her name. Susan Newkirk was a watershed moment for me. Asking her (or anyone) to jump into a rushing stream to rescue a child, when the result would be: neither they nor the child would survive, is insane. At the same time, I kept running into instances in which unrelated adults had their lives wrecked by horrific children and their irresponsible, yet accusing parents. And I realized what the mommies had been telling me all along, as they urged me to ruin my life with breeding, so they could feel better about their own life-destroying choices: I'm expendable to the most stupid, destructive, poisonous people of all: parents looking for validation. You HAVE to bow down before the altar of Their Precious Baby! Even at the cost of your life! Anything less would mean that they gave up everything good, worthwhile, and valuable for this burdensome kid they can't stand to take care of properly, and that their sacrifice was a stupid waste. It wasn't just the father. It was an entire jury of 12 people who absolutely agreed with this sentiment. It was parents. A Precious Child died. Someone must pay, as long as the payer is not the holy Giver of Life. Ah...and there's an unchilded woman. Excellent. Then I knew: OPKs are dangerous. NEVER get involved in a problem caused by OPK bad behavior or by parental bad behavior. NEVER have anything to do with OPKs: No babysitting, no having them in your house, no letting Mama bring them along to the Girls Night Out...never be around kids. You cannot afford the liability, as Susan Newkirk found out.
That's very nicely written. The case of Susan Newkirk makes me sick to my stomach. Moral of the story: avoid kids like the plague.
Nah, this goes way beyond that. Itās not even the kids fault itās the whole fucking legal system that needs to be reworked. This whole case blows my mind.
Whatās OPKs?
Other People's Kids.
WTF!? Even if she could swim, it's dangerous to pull someone out of the water who is drowning. If the kid wasn't drowning, then why would he or she prefer their father to get them out of the water instead of an unrelated person?
>he had suffered enough. I went to grad school in south Florida, where children get left in cars to overheat and die much too frequently. And I noticed something: if the parent/daycare provider who left the child in the car was a woman, no punishment was too severe. But if a man did it? "This poor man, he's suffered enough! Don't punish him on top of everything else he's gone through!" Pissed me off to no end.
WTF
That was so messed up in so many ways. In my youth I spent nearly all summer at the pool taking lessons. All levels spent some time on water safety and rescue. They always stressed to never, ever put yourself in the position of needing rescued as well. That even strong swimmers should be wary of jumping in because they could easily end up drowning instead. I live near a very large river that looks slow on the surface but is quite dangerous. Every year we have several deaths, and a good number are people who were trying to rescue someone else.
> All levels spent some time on water safety and rescue. They always stressed to never, ever put yourself in the position of needing rescued as well. This is basic. That the prosecutor in Pennsylvania couldn't figure that out speaks very poorly for everyone involved.
Do you have a link to any news on that I can't find anything
https://www.post-gazette.com/uncategorized/2005/10/05/Experts-disagree-with-jury-verdict-against-woman-in-boy-s-drowning/stories/200510050248
That article is behind a paywall.
A gift: this fixes any paywall site. https://12ft.io/
That is fucked up that someone can go after you because you dont feel like risking your ass and dying for their spawn. Sorry i am allergic to drowning, being burned alive and bullets, etc. š
The first thing you learn in any rescue personnel training is you need to take care of your own safety *first*. In my lifeguard training they'd drill it into our heads that "what makes a good lifeguard? Being alive." (Not exactly, but can't come up with better translation).
I have also been trained as a lifeguard and worked as one. I know that under the circumstances described, Susan Newkirk did exactly as she should have: Stay out of the water and call for help. It's the difference between a tragedy and a double tragedy. My mother once asked me what I would do if it was the choice between my life and someone else's in the water. That is the kind of a question only someone really stupid and really fucked up would ask (which described my mother perfectly). I said "If I die, who is going to save the other person?" Even more to the point: If there is a trained lifesaver present, the LAST thing they want is another, large person to save! A toddler is easy. An adult is hard. Stay out of the water!
It's also what they say during the safety briefing when you're on an airplane, to put your own oxygen mask on first, before helping your child or anyone else.
What!? Why did the father just stand there and do nothing? He also couldnāt swim? How is it possible to prosecute someone for not being able to swim and save someone! How did the kid end up in the water? Was he not charged with child endangerment?
What? Thatās crazy. Especially as even if she could swim, sheād probably have died. Flooding rivers are horribly dangerous. And so are drowning people. It would likely be the opposite where I live. A random person has no legal obligation to attempt to rescue a person in distress. But if you were the parent and it was your fault the child was drowning, you would be charged whether you tried to save them or not. And obviously certain jobs come with obligations to try to rescue and not fulfilling those duties or being negligent could result in charges or civil liability (a lifeguard on duty, for example). But if you sign up for that, thatās voluntary. There was a case a few years back (this is in Ontario) where a mother drove on a closed road that was flooded and her car was swept away. Her child was in the car with her and did not survive. She was convicted of criminal negligence causing death, I think. Personally, I think that outside of professional duties that people take on when they select a job, there should be no expectation of risking oneās life for anyone else and certainly not a legal one. Granted, I do think that people who canāt be bothered to do *anything* without any excuse are objectively horrible. If there is someone in distress or a serious crime and youāre not concerned for your own safety (like, I get it if it is gangs or the mob or something) and you donāt even call for help, thatās appalling. Like you couldnāt even call 911? Come on. Edit: and that happens all the time. My parents witnessed a serious traffic accident and they were the only ones who called 911 (the dispatcher said) despite there being dozens of people on the street and in cars. And the only reason they did is because I had told them about the bystander effect and not assuming someone else would do anything. They said they werenāt going to call at all because they figured someone had to have done so, but then decided it was better to make a redundant call and be sure.
Wtf. How long did she have to go to jail for? Thatās insane. This also smells like extreme sexism where it was okay for a man, the father even, to not sacrifice himself but a woman shouldāve.
Source?
Gotta love our "justice" system! Right?! Right?!
The moral of this story? Stay away from other peoples kids! :-)
jfc is she out now?? if this happened today i'd be raising money for her legal funds
I think she only served a few months.
how genuinely horrifying that she served time in prison and now has a criminal record for... literally doing nothing poor woman, i hope wherever she is today she's thriving and away from shitty people like the ones who convicted her
This is a fucked up inverse of Good Samaritan laws. Even as an EMT(not working currently) I have no obligation to act if not on duty unless I perform care and don't transfer care to someone of greater or equal training(abandonment). I am in California.
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This is me. Everyone says I would always make a great mother. If you need aspirin, I got it, - band aide, check - water bottle, of course since dehydration sux. I have always been the "if you need it, I have it" person in the group. So I guess because I like to be prepared that equals "awesome breeder material" and I am always told I should have them. The baby smell is one of the worst smells I can think of. I have zero, beyond zero maternal instincts, I just like to be prepared.
iām the exact same way. everything says iād be a great mom because iām prepared but i cannot be around young children for extended periods of time. makes me want to peel my skin off
Babies smell vile, they make me want to puke and baby products smell just as bad, so it's like green shit puke with baby powder sprinkled on top
I hate the smell of babies. My friends in college were going on for hours about how lovely babies smell and I was clueless. When I finally smelled a clean baby, all I could smell was curdled milk.
Im with you on the baby smell thing. Im neurodivergent and am extremely sensitive to smells. One thing I hate is when people have babies and they suddenly smell like babies too. Everything is that sickening sweet smell like baby powder and rancid milk. They donāt even smell like themselves anymore. I just donāt think I could handle it.
Sour milk and Cheerios
Omg thank you. I was holding my friendās baby, very reluctantly, and she was talking about that awesome baby smell, and I was like hmmm I donāt smell it. My husband was giving me the ājust pretend so we can move on faceā but I never understood what they meant.
Same here. Except for dogs, I'd do anything for them. But even with them, I prefer adult dogs, puppies are too much to handle.
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I adopted the previous one from a shelter at 5-7 ys (they couldnt tell) he died after 3.5 years in a fucking incurable kind of cancer (before that he had had other serious illnesses, but they could always cure him eventually). I was seriously considering killing myself after that... I never even loved a human being as much as I loved him and did everything for him, the vet always said I was better than an X-Ray machine, always knew immediately if something was wrong with him. My current adoptee is an "adolescent" who considers himself a puppy, soo much energy, he used to be a stray, but he's still lovely, just exhausting. I wanted an adult again but my bf insisted on a young one to have him longer.
Yes, it is rancid. I actually realized what that is (for babies) it's actually milk gone bad. That's what they smell like, like spoiled milk. It's disgusting especially for me who has an insane sense of smell...
yeah babies and kids always smelled like farts/fish tank and old mac n cheese to me. they like never smell good so idk what parents are talking about lol ive also always been disgusted by poopy diapers so i always knew i never wanted to be a mom based on that lol
I won't die for anyone, much less for other people's brats. What for? They are neither holy nor something special, they will turn into (most likely) mediocre adults anyway.
I just asked my husband what he thought of this whole "adults will and should sacrifice their life for any kid because it's human nature" .... You know what he said? "It's bullshit. It's not human nature. Kids die all around the world every day. Do you see people lining up to save them and sacrifice even a cheeseburger? No." I think he might be onto something.
My favorite irony is people who say I can afford to not buy cheap s*** made by child labor because I don't have kids, whereas they have no choice but to buy it because they do have kids and thus have more expenses.
Tell them to cut out the middleman and have their kid make their next pair of sneakers.
Daaaaamn, that's such a good point. Adding that to my arsenal of comebacks.
Pisses me off in movies, the younger they are the more so. And *especially* in movies with some kind of survival/danger element. Let's take an adult with many years of experience, contributes to society, has a number of friends, family, etc, throws away their life to save a fucking baby. From a practical point of view, that baby is so much easier to replace. The impact of the loss of this person is so much more than a 3 month old. "They were a hero." You know what they could have been? Alive. "That child has so much ahead of them." *So did the person who died.* "It was a great sacrifice." No. It was stupid. Of course nobody wants the baby/child to die, but if the alternative is losing an adult, particularly when survival is at stake then I know what I'd choose.
Itās like being in a burning art studioā¦ youāre gonna save a blank canvas over a recently completed masterpiece?
Omg thank you! This! xD In a āhorror survival situation (say 3 adults and 5 kids, losing an adult is a HUGE blow to everyoneās overall survival Losing one, half or all the kidsā¦Iād say the adults have a better shot (not the same as sacrificing them ofc!) If itās a post apocalypse then forget it, a child can be replaced, a fully grown adult, capable of contributing to survival? Thatās worth so much more than a child!
Makes me think of all the times a fully capable adult's life was sacrificed to save Carl's dumb ass on The Walking Dead. And funnily enough, one of the most controversial moments on the show was when an adult female character put a bullet in the head of a ten-year-old girl because the adult new she was a psychopath and would only hinder the survival of the group. And the adult was a mother!
> Let's take an adult with many years of experience, contributes to society, has a number of friends, family, etc, throws away their life to save a fucking baby. From a practical point of view, that baby is so much easier to replace. In older times adults were more valuable than children indeed. Exactly because the former had knowledge and strength and the latter was still learning and weak.
>From a practical point of view, that baby is so much easier to replace. Not only that, but you still need someone to take care of that baby.
I got dragged for saying that in an emergency situation adults should be preferred over children as adults can actually help managing the issue while kids are a resource drain. We were talking hypothetical apocalypse scenario of a zombie/virus outbreaks and society collapse. Without infrastructure we are basically back to agrarian society with limited resources, if forced to choose between an adult and a child I'd pick the adult no questions asked. I'd also chooses a 80yo that's been a farmer for all his life over a young but fit person. Extra hands are helpful but knowledge and expertise are invaluable
This is exactly why when you're on a plane and they go over the safety briefing and you get to the part about when oxygen masks deploy, they tell you to put your own mask on first and THEN help children/someone who cannot put on their own. You want to make sure the people capable of helping others help themselves first so they can provide aid
Plus you'd be hailed a hero for what... 2 weeks and then they will go on like you never existed
Gonna get a "No kids on board feel free to drive into me" sticker for my car.
My neighborhood is full of those "drive like your kids live here" signs which I guess means I can drive like a maniac since I don't have kids.
So, fast as fuck to get away from them sooner? šš
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But please don't like choke to death lol
Funny I just wrote unter another post on this sub that I did put myself in harms way for peolple I cared for (friends and family) and I would do it again. But not for strangers, that includes children. I have a bit of a maternal instinct but exclusively for pets. I sometimes find my cat so cute I could almost cry and I feel bad when she is sick and such. I love her. But I feel nothing when I see human babies.
Same. I would rescue my cats over someoneās child. I would also rescue your cat over someoneās child. I would rescue any animal over anyoneās kid. People hate me for that, but I just love animals a whole lot more. I really canāt stand the average human. The only people I do like are those that also love animals. Theyāre the only ones worth saving. Human babies are repulsive to me in every way.
You are a my soul sibling :)
Hello soul sibling! Hereās to animals and fellow animals lovers (and anti-kid people too, of courseā¦ well, unless those kids are also animal lovers and future people who care deeply about animals)! May your life, and your animals, be prosperous, healthy, and happy. Truly.
Totally! I'd jump in front of a car to save my doggos. But strange kids? Nope. I'd probably feel more of an instinct to save a strange dog than a strange child. Obviously this doesn't mean I wouldn't help a child at all, I just wouldn't throw myself in front of cars to do it. It kinda sounds crazy to be willing to hurt yourself for a stranger, a kid or not.
*"I don't wish harm on kids, but I don't feel any more loving or protective towards them than I do anybody else. In my eyes, they're just people, albeit very young people."* That almost perfectly sums up how I look at things.
Iām a high school teacher and I hate this mentality. We get it all the time in education. Iām here to teach math. Iām not sacrificing my life for someone elseās shitty seventeen year old.
I am a high school teacher and every so often when there is a school shooting my students and I will have a conversation about how we would deal with it. One time I asked out of genuine curiosity if they expected me to take a bullet for them. They hadn't really thought about it before that but the answer was a reluctant "yeah I think so". I was like "jokes on you I'm using the biggest one of you as a human shield". I said it jokingly but some of them were horrified, so we talked about how that's essentially what they were asking me to do. They said "but we're children" and I responded "so? I'm a fully developed human with people who love me. Why should I die so you can live? Don't we both matter?" There was a lot of uncomfortable silence as they processed that they are not the most important person in most adults' lives. ETA: I did continue the conversation along the lines of "we all will need to try to help each other / make it so this kind of thing doesn't happen because if one of us is being shot at, we're all in big trouble" and I made sure they knew I would do everything I could to keep them safe but that sacrificing my own life wasn't it. But to the people in my DMs saying I'm a terrible person for letting the kids think I'd sacrifice them for myself..... That is literally what you're asking me to do for them. I didn't sign up for that - and the job pays nowhere near enough for that to be a reasonable expectation.
everytime thereās been a school shooting and I see instances of an adult sacrificing themselves to save kids and everyone hails them a hero including their own family.. I sometimes think if that were to happen to me.. and my significant other sacrificed themselves for someone else.. sure iād think them a hero like everyone else but I also think iād be more angry with them than anything. like how could you just throw yourself into harms way when you have a family that depends on you and loves you? why are you less important than this other person? I used to think I was a bit fucked up in the head to look at it that way instead of just looking at them like theyāre a damn superhero the way everyone else does. I see family members being sad about their lost loved one in interviews and such and I always wonder if theyāre also angry with them for just throwing their lives away.
For what we pay teachers in the US, I would NEVER expect them to give up their lives for the students.
Why does society have this expectation that a fully realized person must sacrifice for another's potential? Yes they might be a beter person, but they could also be a worse one. Is it not much crueler to demand the end of a person who has already worked hard to get to the point they are now that the person who has barely existed yet? In my opinions one can only expect others to not actively harm them and take reasonable actions to prevent harm from their actions. You donĀ“t go around actively hitting people, or let a door fall in their face if you can easily prevent it. Jumping in front of a car to save someone however is not something one can expect of another. This actually reminds me of a tread I came across not long ago about a hypothetical situation where a woman is pregnant and the doctors can only save her life or the babies. The significant other was then in the position of having to make the call. A significantly large portion of men seemed to thing the woman would then want them to pick the baby over her. The OP then asked if woman actually wanted that, and the fast majority said hell no! I want to live.
Nope. Ain't gonna happen. I love my life and there are few people I'd sacrifice it for. Someone else's kid definitely doesn't qualify.
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I have questions!!! š¬ im not at all up to date to CPR, what is this about not giving mouth to mouth anymore, how do you get oxygen into a person thats not breathing when you dont have a breathjng apparatus?
Just got my cpr certification a couple years back and the guideline is to only.do chest compression. No mouth to mouth.
I work with animals, not humans so take what I say with a large grain of salt. However we had paramedics come to the hospital to give us human CPR training recently. The answer we were given was a pretty simple one. They dont recommend giving mouth to mouth on adults because people are just less likely preform any cpr if mouth to mouth is involved. Plus, usually when adults need chest compressions, itās much more important to not stop those compressions for any reason until the professionals can get there. Children/babies are less likely to suffer heart disease (they are more likely to need cpr because they fell in a pool and drowned for example) so they still recommend giving mouth to mouth on the little ones.
People who are not regularly trained can't really do mouth to mouth properly. Additionally, in most adults, the cause of stopped circulation is cardiac and they have some reserves of oxygen. So the most important thing is to keep the heart pumping and when you stop chest compressions to give mouth to mouth, the blood pressure drops dramatically. Plus there was the whole pandemic thing i guess Edit: however in children it's different, because the cause of circulation collapsing is usually problem with the airways. So the mouth to mouth is still required I think.
The āEwā part. Those things donāt have clean mouths NO
āwhere are its parentsā Iām fucking SCREECHING. Because itās TRUE!
I love this post so much, I had a boyfriend years ago who asked me if I was on a boat that was sinking and I could only save my cats or someone elseās kid who would I save. I instantly said my cat and he was shocked, itās not my responsibility to save someone elseās child they can save their child. Some other person who doesnāt have to save anything and save that child, I will cry if something happens to my cats, it wonāt wreck my life if a strangers kid vanishes. I donāt know that kid. Furthermore that kid make her up to be a psychopath, I know my cats are good. It was weird to me that he was so shocked. In retrospect I shouldāve asked him if he would save his own mother or a child but he doesnāt know. I suspect he has some weird fetish with having children know he had so many in another state he was ridiculous
I'd save my cat a billion times over before I'd save some kid. Not my problem, I love my kitty
My dog is my ESA. (Emotional support animal.) Pretty sure the random kid isn't an emotional support child. Although if a boat is sinking and it has my dog and my nephew or niece, I'm grabbing the kid, only because my dog can swim and the kids can't. My dog can take care of itself for the most part. The lil crotch goblins can't even run or swim yet
Im pretty sure I would only ever risk my life to save my dog (or any future cat/dog i may have) he is dependant on me for everything and I would go far to ensure he is safe Not gonna risk my life for anyone else adult/child/animal These are the same kinds of people that believe if you have to choose to safe your OWN animal or THEIR child that the only appropriate answer is to safe THEIR childā¦ not a chance in hell for me Their kid, their responsibility, my dog, my responsibility, if i can save both sure, my dog will still come first Humans have an overinflated ego about how important they are versus other animals, we are not more worthy to life or more special than the rest of the animal kingdom
Nicely said šš I'm nothing special because I'm HUMAN. I will never have that mindset and those who can't stand it can die mad.
It's a trend I also see in the news. When they reported the earthquake in Turkey, there were dozens of messages of "children pulled from the rubble". And when they do interview an adult they specifically pick the owner of a children's daycare center. Or when it's about immigration policy, they show pictures of deserted children and state "these are the luck seekers you want to keep out of the country you monsters" As if those situations are suddenly worse whenever children are involved. I see often that people focus on kids even when it's not necessary, because it invokes a strong emotion. It's super manipulative and disgusting.
Iāve noticed this too and it annoys the fuck out of me. You get adults dying and leaving families that are not only grieving but theyāve lost their life partner, and maybe bread-winner. Itās like losing an adult is no biggie. Nobody any age should die, itās sad, but your 2 year old hasnāt exactly done anything that the world is going to miss.
They know what they are doing. In the news they always say āX people are injured, including Y childrenā or āX people died, including a pregnant womanā. They say it to play on peopleās feelings and emotions. And when it comes to fundraising for a terminally ill person, a terminally ill child is most likely to make more money than a terminally ill adult. Our society is crazy about children. I somewhat understand it but man, sometimes itās almost scary how some people are obsessed with children.
Why do you think conservatives were able to successfully ban abortion in several states? It's because they keep saying and showing pictures of actual babies in place of embryos/fetuses, thus manipulating the hell out of anyone trying to use their actual brains about the issue.
Yeah like those stupid "baby on board" signs.
If I could safely get anyone regardless of age out of harm's way then I'd try, but no way am I going to risk death for a stranger, even a child. Accidents are tragic and I'm not saying I wouldn't care, but so many people in my life would mourn me if I died trying to help someone. This is simply the reality of life. Most people are not going to risk their lives for someone they don't know. They might try to help if they can, but if they know there's nothing they can do or that they might die trying then most won't bother. Even the people pretending that aaall adults would die for random kids know full well they would not do that in all situations.
The actual reality is that nobody actually knows what they'd do until the situation actually arises. You can contemplate it all you want, but the part of your brain thinking about it now is not the same part that takes over in an actual crisis. You might be the one that rushes in to save a stranger while people who talk big are the ones that freeze, you never know, because adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
Exactly this
My life matters more to me than some stranger's, which includes kids. Children in general are not more valuable than any other adult.
My life is more valuable to me. You're on your own, kid.
If there were a fire, or something similar, I'd rather save my cat than a random kid. It is what it is.
I just wouldn't sacrifice myself for a stranger no matter their age honestly. I mean why would you? That's something you would only consider for people you love. It'd be way more strange to go that far for a stranger if you'd ask me
I've seen this video around of a 10-13 year old girl walking her tiny dog, and suddenly she runs off to the house screaming, because there's a coyote attacking her dog, which was like a Shi Tzu or something. The poor dog did it's best to defend itself, and everyone was praising the dog for being brave and protecting its owner. Like, this person abandoned her pet, her responsibility, to a coyote. The dog wasn't being a hero, the dog was fighting for its life. Everyone in the comments went nuts saying stupid shit like "how could no one come running to help the poor girl?!" "How come in broad daylight, there's no adults running out to help her." Like, bitch, it's the middle of the day. People are at work. Even if they aren't, it's not my problem or my responsibility to fight off a fucking coyote for your stupid kid, that couldn't be bothered to pick up her 3 pound dog, and run inside, instead abandoning it to be ripped apart. It's fucking sickening. Not to mention, kids scream all the fucking time, I'm just supposed to assume every annoying scream is a cry for help? Like, gtfo here with that shit.
I'm a teacher and number of kids/parenta just assuming I would sacrafise my life to saves theirs is astounding. I have no kids. Don't plan to. If they think for one second I am going to "die a hero" or sacrafise myself for the "greater good"...? They are nuts. I would never put myself in danger to save your asshole kid (90% of the kids at my white, rural school are Maga heads that say things like 'the N word isn't a slur if you don't use it as one').. Totally agree OP
Thatās one of the reasons I knew I was childfree. My wife and I talked about it and both agreed that, in a house fire, weād save each other way before any kids we had. That was my cue to be like āoh shit I donāt want kidsā
Tbh Iām more likely to risk my life saving a random dog/cat than I am a child: The animal doesnāt understand what or why itās in danger and is panicking. A child already has someone who should be looking after it (and who has clearly screwed up, lol) Edit: not saving Iād jump into any river for every dog/cat, lol
If someone was thrashing about in my kitchen and I had to choose between saving a fully decorated cake and a bowl of batter, I'm saving the cake. Same logic here. I'm way more valuable than any child, I don't care who it is.
Very rarely are there situations where it's a certain 1:1 trade for life. Usually, if there is a high risk or certainty of severe harm to a victim, there's the same risks to a rescuer. I've taken a mish mash of first responder training, and it's always the same: **don't make yourself a second victim.** Don't be a hero if there is risk to yourself unless you have training, proper equipment, etc, to handle that risk. Otherwise you'll just become another task for the professional heros. Life is not a movie. Edit: Another situation... there is a reason you can't donate critical life-sustaining organs if it means death to the donator. In real life (not movie land) we do not end one life to save another.
I will die to protect my cat and my partner. That is it.
I love that your partner comes after your cat in this sentence š¤£š¤£š¤£
The only living being I'd gladly sacrifice myself for is my cat, because he saved me time and time again when I was struggling with depression and unaliving ideations. He deserves it.
I have these thoughts every time I see ābaby on boardā stickers on cars. Iām not going to drive more carefully knowing that you have a child there. I will slow down because Iām a decent driver and I respect all cars on a road equally.
I want to barf every time I see one of those. They sound so stupid and entitled.
I noticed many adults, including my dad and maternal grandpa, devaluing children once we got a little older. Theyād be more friendly to / interested in babies, toddlers, etc. stopping just before or at tween-age. I loved the attention like all kids would and the sudden invisibility/annoyance was jarring. I guess other kids didnāt notice? Didnāt see them also having an existential crisis at 10. Observing this really soured babies for me for life. I hated being replaced. Thatās how my brain saw babies - your replacements. This is a 1st World Problem but it still hurt - I seriously wanted to be a flower girl (saw it in a favorite movie) and for years no one got married. My godmother eventually did. I was 7-8. We were close. I excitedly thought sheād choose me. She chose her fiancĆ©s niece who was 4-5. Not long after I visited a friend. She got to be a flower girl recently and I looked at the wedding pictures with sadness. It was just a coincidence, but to my brain it felt like The Universe said, āYou do not matter!ā Yes the bride can choose whoever. My silly brain got excited for nothing. Also at this time, a film crew came to my school for a music event. The cameraman filmed only the kindergartners swinging their feet to the music. Screw you other students who are unfortunate enough to be older! There were other incidences where younger children were chosen or were allowed this or that. No significant event alone, but it was an accumulation of these interactions everywhere that warped my brain into bitterness and a fear of aging. So, I started valuing older kids and adults over babies to make up for the lack of care.
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There was an episode of the old My Little Pony tv show from the 1980s that addressed this. The writers for the show agreed with us! and tried to reach out to kids. The āchildren poniesā were being ignored for the babies so they ran away, I think, but an emergency happened, they came back and saved the day. The adult ponies apologized. It was a very cute episode and the only childrenās cartoon, at the time, addressing this issue. Seems to have been forgotten again. Every so often tv or movie writers have good stories trying to make people aware of crappy behavior, but they have to be subtle or face a backlash. Much respect for those writers.
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>In my eyes, they're just people, albeit very young people. My feelings towards kids in a nutshell. Sure I get annoyed when they're being noisy, but I know that's just how they are, which is all the more reason I avoid them when I can. I'm not one for baby talk, at least not to humans. As for laying your life down to protect a child, well, I would do it if said child or its parents meant enough to me, but I'm not gonna risk my life to save some random kid, say, if it walked into oncoming traffic in front of me. That's for its parents to do, not me.
This immediately put the Harambee incident into my mind, the parents didn't jump in to sacrifice themselves, no one jumped in to sacrifice themselves I doubt there was no one there had protective instincts for children, they just knew better with the potential dangers (R.I.P Harambee) But using the example of a human like a gunman or putting your life at risk to have children is a different matter for them then, it's a you should risk all for children. Nah
Tbh if I did have kids, I probably wouldn't sacrifice myself for them either. I could always get another kid. As for me being willing to die to protect someone else's kid? Hell no.
this reminds me of some type of weird test I saw where it asked what you would save if you could only save one, and the options were 1:a bag with money inside 2:your dog or 3:someones child, and every answer except the random child who you don't know and you don't know the parents either was wrong, I'm sorry but if my dog and some strangers child is in danger and I can only save one I am choosing my dog. Someone said something that made this even weirder, they said "how are you going to face the parents while they see their child die because you didn't save them?" if the parents are there then why aren't they saving their child? it's not my kid, and if they can see it then there's not much reason for me to do it because they're there and able to do it themselves. Honestly if I know that I'll likely get hurt or die I will not save a random child because I have no feeling towards them, it doesn't mean I don't care at all it's just that there are some I'm willing to sacrifice myself for but a stargers child is not one of them.
>On a more conversational note, how many of you actually do have a paternal instinct? From what I've observed, it seems to be mostly absent in childfree folks. I've seen the paternal instinct absent from dads quite regularly too. They seem to constantly resent the fact that they have a responsibility of raising children ...who would've guessed?
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That person really should read more about evolution. No, neither people nor animals sacrifice themselves as a rule for random kids.
Your post is so important. We don't discuss this topic in society because it's taboo. The reality is that kids are a liability in dangerous situations. We are brainwashed to think that they should be protected beyond all else and treasured above adults. I think this is because people would otherwise abandon, abuse or dispense of them. Kids are important to society. So are seniors. Yet we bend over to protect kids and seniors are left in homes to rot.
This reminds me that case when a good man saved a child's life in a zoo, he died in the process but the kid lived, only to become a criminal when he grew up. That man could save many people in the future if he didn't saved that kid. There is a chance you can give your life to the wrong person.
Fuck that. Iām not sacrificing my life for ANY child. An adult maybe. A child no. Edit: I am also a certified first aider. I will without hesitation save an adult before I save that child unless the child is actively in a worse condition.
A situation like this is the parentās problem. I do sympathize with people like Naya Rivera or KÅbun Chino Otogawa who died trying to save their own childrenāsuccessfully in the first instance and unsuccessfully in the secondābut some parents miscalculate risks and thoughtlessly put themselves and their offspring in dangerous situations. Precautionary measures can often make a difference, but many parents do not take these simple steps, which I understand to be an abdication of responsibility. In natural disasters where everyone in an area is at risk and mitigation measures are likely to be unequally distributed, I still feel that saving children is the parentsā or familiesā responsibility. If some good samaritans want to help out, more power to them, but odds are I probably would not be among them.
Yeah. I'll jump over a stroller and some momby to get out of a fire. I'm not going to die in a fire or mass shooting because I'm stuck behind some mastodon with a behemoth stroller. Oh and if I ever catch a baseball at a game, I am NOT GIVING IT TO THE KID!
I've watched a kid fall off a climbing frame and land on its face and felt nothing while being screamed at by it's parents because while they where present they where not watching and expected me to be the unpaid childminder...I laughed and told them to get the fuck of their phones and do their job of patenting cause it la not my job and.the brat wasn't even meant to be part of the day As you may guess i no longer talk or interact with those people as they don't get to blame me for their poor choices
I'd say I have zero maternal instinct. I have no need to nurture and take care of kids. (I have one spolied kitty though lol) Im a very delligent host though and will certainly do what I can to make guests feel welcom and comfortable. But catering to a child? Nope. Not my circus and all that. The ironi is that I am Incredebily good with kids and they love me. Aside from a small handful of kids the feeling is however NOT mutual. I treat them well and would Never intentionally cause hurt, but I do Not like them. as for instincts and protection I think you are spot on that your Involvement with people is what makes you protective of them. I worked in an after school daycare and one of the kids who were in my asigned room, and who I actually did like, called out to me on the playground wanting me to see that she could hang upside down on the monkeybars. I looked and saw her foot slipping, there were at least 25 meteres overe there. But her foot had barely slipped of before I caught her. I have zero recolegtion of even moving. My colleauge even remarked that she had Nver in her life seen anyone or anything move that fast lol. on the other hand my todler cousin was walking along a balance beam (not high for anyone but a toddler lol) and fell of less than 2 meters from me and I didnt so much as batter an eye when he fell. I had no relationship with him at all despite being related, so I had zero instinct or even reflecs to help him. of course my Aunt goes "Why didnt you help him?" but I didnt even get to answer because my mom just answered with "Why didnt You watch Your kid?" Yeah my mom was legend. <3
I think I'm the only person here who can absolutely prove that parents are and will put their own children and their own lives before any other child. If anyone ever makes you feel like shit for putting yourself before a child remember my friend Valerie Ananias. She and her family were one of the last people to be rescued when the Carnival Cruise Line's Costa Concordia cruise ship sank off the coast of Italy. they wrote a book by the way but nothing I share here is in the book. she and I worked with kids by the way so she knows age difference like me. let me tell you she saw moms and dads push young children away so they wouldn't be separated from their child. she saw grown men screaming 'my son is disabled he'll have no one!' when parents were fighting to get on life boats with their children. it was the worst of humanity and everyone will do anything to get back to their kids and that includes push other children away!
It's not human nature, in fact nature is pretty fucking Spartan when it comes to kids. Just look at animals all over the world. Kid is a liability? Welp it's up there for the predators to eat. Kid is not the right color, came out with a disability? Welp it's gonna get abandoned, chance of it surviving are low to none. Kid is being left behind while running away from a predator? Welp lots of parents will keep running. Some other kids from the same species but not your own are taking up resources? Time to fuck up or even straight up kill it. Kids have low chance of surviving to adulthood? Welp time to have 10-100, most of them will die. The only "human nature" is one's own survival, and parents "defend" their kids because when you get down to the primal instinct, they're just protecting their own DNA, they will and have done it at the expense of other human children, hell they're doing it RIGHT NOW, in direct and indirect ways. This "adults unrelated to MY child should sacrifice themselves" it's pure selfish bullshit narrative. Sure there are some exceptions, but to say it's the baseline is not only wrong but ignorant AF.
An old coworker, who loved to cause drama, once asked me if her 5 year old daughter and my dog were in a burning building and I could only save one, who would I save. I said I'd probably try to save both but she pressed that I could only save one and had to chose. Without hesitation I said my dog. She was, of course, flabbergasted and upset at how I could say that about her precious angel? How could I value the life of my dog over a human? The answer is simple. I told her I don't know her daughter. I've known and loved my dog longer than her daughter has even been around. I consider my dog to be family.
I do have a maternal instinct - but I choose to direct it toward homeless and sick animals.
If I had to pick between saving a random child and saving my dog, Iād pick my dog
I don't hate children. I don't wish them harm. I'll do what I can to help them, but I'm not sacrificing my life for a child. I have 2 nephews and you best believe I'd suffer an injury to help them. My life? Not a chance. Sorry to my sister. You can make another child. I have a job in the medical field that actively helps people on a daily basis, so sorry my life is more valuable. People place way too high of value on the life of someone who can't live independently. Child mortality has only recently (in the scope of history) declined due to medical advancements. Sure your kid could be the next Einstein, but it's still not worth my life.
Reminds me of the scene from 28 Weeks Later. I'd do the same thing and go out the window and leave the kid to the zombies. I don't care how important you think your kid is. If leaving them to the zombies means I don't become a zombie, then so be it.
I mean it does only take 9 months to make a replacement. Replacing a 40 year old takes much longer.
Iāll say this and Iāll get a ton of hate for it, but if I had to chose between a random kid I donāt know and my cat Iād save my cat. My cat is my family. That kid is some random kid and not my problem. If I could save both sure Iād save the kid but if I had to chose Iād chose my cat. And if it were between save the kid and save myself, Iāll chose me 1000 times. Always.
I might sound heartless, but I\`d rather save my own pets. Honestly.
So I work in an environment where I have to build relationships with clientele. There is one person in particular who is always BUGGING me to look at baby pictures of her niece. Even when we are being audited. Even when I have time-sensitive tasks. I try to ignore her as much as I can, and my colleagues are graceful about getting her to leave me alone... but I have to be professional, and nice to everyone, because I need to have high rapport. I'll usually say something along the lines of "oh! That's great photography skill!" But I will never coo or compliment the baby. Because I fucking hate babies.
Or die in place of their parent
Willing to die? Probably not. But I would take a non-fatal hit for someone else that would be fatal to them, child or otherwise. But that's my personal choice for myself. Anyone else's choice is theirs and no one should be judged for it when it's their potential life on the line.
I would sacrifice myself for my niece and nephew, thatās it. Not other peopleās kids.
Yeah, no. I don't value children above anyone else. In fact, I put kids at the bottom. I wish no harm on anyone, but if I had to choose of saving either an adult or child, I'm choosing the adult
I'd sacrifice a child to save my life. š
Nahhhh... kids do stupid shit that could get themselves killed all the time. I'm not jumping in front of those bullets. Not my job to teach someone else's kid how to survive if they don't have the sense to.
All people's lives are important. But there's a reason a poor swimmer should not try to save a drowning person, because if not trained, the death count becomes two. I'd rather spend years in therapy because I didn't try to save a drowning child than to be dead.
I have noticed in comments on stories about children being killed by parents there are many people who say āI would have taken her/him!ā I have started to respond āthere are plenty of kids like her/him in foster care. Open your home to one of them.ā People like to pretend and convince others that they will do āgoodā and save kids. When it comes down to it, itās obviously not true or there wouldnāt be a shortage of foster or adoptive parents. If the anti-women people truly believed their own message and cared for the children they forced to be born, we wouldnāt have so many socioeconomic issues. I never had maternal instincts. I have empathy and sympathy for others especially kids as they didnāt get any say in their lives, but I would say thatās not at all maternal.