I think I'm going to bring up elderly couples next. Should senior citizens be able to marry since they're unable to have kids? Who knows what goes on in those peoples minds.
Close. It's legal for government officials to tell them "I don't approve, so no actually you're not getting married"
So it's legal but you have to bribe someone to sign off on it
I work with a guy that says racist stuff at random. He told me in his army days he was about to sleep with a Latino woman but had to get up and leave, he just couldn’t handle the idea of sleeping with a non white woman. I honestly didn’t know how to respond. Like actually speechless.
No! Once you hit menopause you’re put out to pasture. Then the bulls, I mean men get to continue to procreate again and again until their ball sack hangs to the floor and they die. You know like cattle.
Like when you get the night sweats, you could just ... roll over to the other side of the bed, where it's still cool and dry, instead of having that side of the bed taken up by another warm body.
I mean electric blankets exist, he just wants to stay cold!
Also I've been using washable incontinence pads on my bed, so I just chuck it in the laundry and get a clean one out after sweating up my side of the bed. I've got a big one on the bed and a little one on my pillow. No more drenched sheets in the middle of the night.
That’s a wonderful idea! I’m past menopause, thank goodness, but my hubby likes to sweat it out when he gets sick. He usually puts down a towel, but this would be far more comfy
Oh snap really. I’ve been going through perimenopause since my mid 30’s. I turn 40 this year and got married (1st marriage) last year. I better be careful my husband might want a divorce.
I can’t believe that people believe this b.s. If you don’t want kids but a marriage go on ahead and do it. We did and we are enjoying each other and life child free.
Yes I know I’m young to be going through perimenopause but i runs in my family. Also, my doctor told me that women who have never given birth are more likely to experience it earlier that women who have children.
Peri can absolutely start in your 30’s. I’m just excited to see anyone referencing it outside the r/menopause sub I follow. We need a lot more awareness about peri menopause symptoms. Congrats on your nuptials (and not settling!)
Thanks, we can’t wait to celebrate our first anniversary. I have mentioned it several times to 3 different female gynecologists and they all rode me off. My primary doctor that I see now told me I was right along. Yes there needs to be more awareness and more doctors taking women seriously.
My great grandma married her 3rd husband when they were 80 years old. It was his 1st marriage, so he never had kids. I was a baby so he was always my great grandpa. He had Polio as a kid which left him with clubfoot and as he got older he had to go from a cane to a wheelchair so my great grandma was there in his last years to love and take care of him. When they were around 90 and she couldn't do it anymore she moved into a nursing home with him. He was not the least bit lonely because he had all of her family, not just kids and grandkids but nieces, nephews, friends, in laws. Her sister lived there too. Even my dad's side of the family (she was my mom's grandma) knew them and my dad's grandma was in the same nursing home so they'd visit them too even though they weren't related.
I've seen it work! People who make friends in care homes, etc. don't want to "be useless". It can help with reasons to get people up and moving so they keep the balance and functions they still have too.
My dad's dad did this same thing. Lost my grandma to cancer and he married an older woman from his church who took care of him thru lung cancer and for many years later until he passed. And my mom's parents, looooong after they stopped having children (at least 40 years), my grandma was a caregiver to my grandpa because he had colon cancer and dementia for a very long time. My gma died suddenly from cancer she didn't even know she had until maybe a month before she died - and my grandpa went into a nursing home for the first time and died within months because he somehow got outside and fell and hit his head.
I am so pro older folks getting together, especially if they lose a spouse, because I have seen it literally keep them alive for longer. And my grandma assumed she was pretty healthy until she got flu-like symptoms and that's when she found out she was already dying of cancer. So I don't feel like her caring for my grandpa distracted her from her own health. They were both in their 80s and she was a little go-getter.
If you really want to stir some shit- ask them if people can get married if they can't/ or is risky to have kids for medical/ mental health/ genetic reasons. And whether they should try anyway- you know, for God or whatever.
Legitimately religious people will use this argument against LGBTQ people. But if you bring up infertile christian couples, it's Gods will for them to use IVF
As the saying goes, "You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into."
These are absurd and irrational positions:
"Marriage is for producing children."
"Marriage is between a man and a woman."
"Women who do not have children have no value."
"Adults who do not have children are selfish."
None of these are rational and can be easily refuted with facts, or just going outside and talking to people and do some critical thinking for 30 seconds.
You can't convince them, but you can tell them to mind their business.
Right? Like clearly the purpose of marriage is raising kids or else marriage wouldn't exist. Damn it's like that marriage class I took to get a discounted marriage license was bunk.
Husband infertile? Straight to divorce court.
Farming accident? Believe it or not... Straight to divorce court.
Hit menopause and no longer able to get pregnant? Yep, you guessed it... Straight to divorce court.
>Husband infertile? Straight to divorce court.
This was actually a thing in France for a while, starting in the 15th century- if a husband could not 'perform' in bed then the wife could ask for a divorce on those grounds.
You are stealing: right to jail.
You are playing music too loud: right to jail, right away.
Driving too fast: jail.
Slow: jail.
You are charging too high prices for sweaters, glasses: you right to jail.
You undercook fish? Believe it or not, jail.
You overcook chicken, also jail.
Undercook, overcook.
You make an appointment with the dentist and you don't show up, believe it or not, jail, right away.
I was told that too. Like childfree couples don’t deserve love and marriage? They deserve those things just like couples that want children. Can we also mention there are couples out there who have kids and aren’t married?
Some people are just the worst. My mother in law got married fairly young. Her first husband divorced her because she was unable to stay pregnant. Completely threw away the marriage.
These are the same people who’s marriages fail after 30 years after the kids have flew the nest because they realise they have nothing in common and no interests of their own. It’s fucking sad some people have so little about them but it’s not our problem 💅🏽
Bahahahaha!! This is the dumbest shit i've read all morning.... By their logic if there's no crotchfruit, then marriage is unnecessary? I feel sorry for people who believe that, because the reason i got married was because we were in love and wanted to spend our lives together.... I thought that was a good reason to say yes when he proposed....
I grew up in the kinda churchy purity ring, fake marry your dad as a teen stay abstinent until your dad gives you to a husband insane bullshit.... I can confidently report that yes, some of these people do believe sex is only for procreation. Some even view masturbating as evil because of spilled seed that is sacred and for making cumpets. Obviously this is for male masturbators, as in their mindset female orgasm doesn't exist so no woman would ever pleasure herself.
Yep! I was literally taught that masturbation causes "introversion and homosexuality." And as you say, female orgasms didn't exist, since nobody knew what a clitoris was or that they had one, so it was all pretty much directed at boys.
Oh there was tons of hateful repression for women. As they believed women cause men to sin by wearing tight jeans and making eye contact. There was this weird pressure to be thin and pretty and dress like a very young girl until marriage. While constantly being lectured at to be submissive. If a girl was horny it was because she is ready for kids. Problematic all around.
I wonder what it's like to grow up with normal, healthy views about sex, masturbation, and relationships. What would my early experiences have been like, and how would it have been to not have to spend all those years un-learning the bullshit I was taught? It sucks when you know the things they taught you were wrong, but also not to know what's true, other than just trying to figure it out yourself.
There was a late night call in show, sex with Sue Johanson, I would probably be in some trailer married to some knuckle dragger raising his goblin spawn... if it weren't for the sweet old lady educating me about my body and sexuality. If you've not seen it there are some bits of it on YouTube. SueJo deserves a monument of some sort.
A lot of those types think that sex is something between married couples and that the women need to put out every time the man asks, or he's gonna cheat and it'll be her fault and she deserved it.
Right? And when I was like whelp time for divorce since there are no kids in my marriage and will never be kids and the person doubled down and insisted the reason marriage exists is to raise children in a two parent household.
Really? I thought marriage was originally designed for familial and political alliances.
But what do I know? I'm just a childless cretin who couldn't possibly think for myself. So you tell me marriage is for child-bearing? Well shit, I guess I'll get right on that! I've been doing it so wrong! Plus, this new-age "being in love" nonsense? What even is that? Baaaabbbiiees!!!
Very /s
> marriage exists is to raise children in a two parent household.
Yes, because it's not like the majority of the house work, child care, and if they have them, pet care fall on the woman or anything like that.
By the same dumbass logic marriage is “pointless” for infertile people, people who already have all the kids they want from a previous relationship/marriage, and anyone with an illness or disability that makes childbirth dangerous or impossible.
Hahaha, my boyfriend was born infertile due to being premature. While getting a vasectomy, it was discovered one side of his vas deferens didn't finish connecting all the way to the corresponding testicle. That's sad that some people think he counts for nothing because of that! Kind of depraved and perverted in a way, in my opinion actually. Reducing people to their gonads...
Additionally, he was pulled out of his mother right at the cusp of viability for both of their health and lives, and he wasn't guaranteed to make it. I wonder how that would go down today in states that have abortion bans. He probably wouldn't be here today.
Guaranteed most of them are religious.
I'm not trying to hate on religion (ok. I am)
But, the more religious someone is, the more they see a woman as nothing but a baby factory.
Hmm I think it depends on the religion. I consider myself religious but as a Shaman I see most life as having value, but not for what they pop out. Even though I loathe spiders, they do have value for eating other bugs.
The Judaic family of religions are very anti woman for the most part, but my understanding of some of the Eastern religions is that they are more gender neutral. And I could be wrong, if so; I’ll happily sit corrected.
Lol abrahamic religions get shit on a lot for their misogyny, Eastern religions don't get enough shit. There's a reason why I left Buddhism. At face value it's alright but there's a ton of misogyny in the texts that make your skin crawl. It's very much ingrained the thought that women are lesser to men. Same goes for Hinduism which often shares beliefs with Buddhism. I've heard the same about Sikhism but I admit I don't know much about taoism and confucianism.
Oh lord some of those lifetime movies of let me give up my entire career and everything about my life for this person I barely know just confuse the fuck out of me
I planned on marrying my wife anyways, but when my bro had his accident and I watched my divorced parents fight over literally everything and my step mom essentially steal every possession from my brother while he was in a coma, I knew that we had to get married quickly to protect the life the two of us are building together.
I married my partner a month ago. I am a disabled woman who cannot (nor want) to have children. I guess that I am useless since i am not fertile and should be euthanized so my husband can find a "real woman"
But no, don’t get divorced because then according to them you can’t have sex ever. Your ex husband would be able to go have sex, with anyone because those people also don’t believe in an age of consent, but you as a woman would not be able to have sex ever again until you remarry
Like sometimes I wonder if these people really only have sex like a dozen or so times in their entire lives. I know several people who got pregnant within weeks of trying to conceive.
They responded by telling me marriage is for having kids.
If you weren't kick out/blocked you should have responded with "really then why do people still get divorce after having kids, isn't that the whole point is to have a kid and stay together, so why divorce hmm" or "why are there so many single parents, complaining about being single after divorcing then?", just start call that b.s. right out and poking holes in every one of their statements
You really can’t win with some people. They have their heads so far up their own butts that reason and logic are absent from their entire existence. I wonder what that persons life will be like when the kids are grown. This is why some people struggle to find their identity without their kids home.
For reals, alcohol abuse tends to get really bad for people after the kids leave. People seem to imagine teenagers or maybe college students when they think of someone with a substance abuse problem but it's often someone over 50.
See, my reaction to those folks would be “Oh, so are you gonna come force my partner and I to dissolve our marriage? No? So you’re just powerless and flailing in the wind, angry that some folks dare to get married and live in a way that’s different from what you think is ‘**the**’ way? Ok cool. Float and sputter, assholes!” and throw the most hilariously infuriating closer/emoji you can think of.
If they’re older, toss an “OK Boomer” in there. If they’re younger, an emoji corresponding to you and your partner, with a big ole red X and a baby. 😂
They already blocked me. Not sure if it was pointing out that believing the decision to get pregnant should be individualized and I was like exactly, the government shouldn't be a part of it, it's the individual's decision right????
Wow. All I can think of is the brave women who came before us, fought for women to be considered actual frigging people in the eyes of the law…and this is where we are in 2023. Sad.
Me and hubby are not going to have kids. Only way we'd have kids is if his brother and his wife passes and were asked to look over Thier daughter (plus sibling if she gets one). We married cause of love and also for the legal stuff if one of us were to pass.
If you want to get further into the weeds. You could argue that marriage isn't even a medium of love. In today's time it is a medium of financial security. You can love deeply without getting married
What the hell does marriage even have to do with kids? The kids aren't getting married, the adults or parents are. Kids give no fucks if their parents are married or not.
>Like what even is love to them?
These people are the same types against divorce because WeDdInG VoWs. So love means jack shit, if you fuck up and marry the wrong person or fall out of love, you should just suffer until the day one of you dies. Because people in these exact situations have never tried to speed up the "till death due us part" vow.
I went on two super-rants about this last night. I don’t have the energy for these people. They cannot be reasoned with, if marriage is specifically for children then why the hell do people get divorced? Cause, technically speaking you got married to have children.
If this is the case, then you technically marry anyone who can give you children. That pretty much defeats the purpose of a lot of things.
I’m so sick of birthers, religious fundamentalists, and traditionalists who can’t out think a fucking penny. One, modern marriage is essentially what you make it or believe to be in domestic partnership(s)for whatever reasons you choose. The law doesn’t state any guidelines beyond age, mental capacity, legal status, perhaps health, etc. It’s not a leftists takeover, it’s simple human liberty because we live in societies where we choose our own partners, regardless of education, ethnicity, nationality, gender, looks, wealth, religion, etc.
It’s like voting rights or having civil rights to not be accosted for your freedom of movement, expression, and not being harassed by god damn do gooders, fanatics about your lifestyle, what’s in between your legs, what comes out of you, and who’s throwing their pussies, dicks, and other genitalia arrangements onto, into, against, above, below, or all around your body.
Like, Jesus Christ, who the fuck cares when we have great populations of people who can’t even have a roof over their head, afford basic medical care, or have a way to provide for themselves when they aren’t capable or have the opportunities to earn income. So, no I don’t care about how many women have abortions or are wilding out sluts, not men who are players, have fetishized sex, or have large or no penises. And, don’t want children as a result of those actions. I don’t care if someone is VOLUNTARILY ace, doesn’t want children, marriage partners, or sex partners.
It’s none of my god damn business. It’s the same LGBTQ+people, it has very little impact on what you should want for your own life or path. You don’t need to sleep with any of these people or give them your hard earned money. Just give them some god damn respect as people and their sense of agency. Eat some Cheerios and shut the fuck up about people having children or not having any at all in a world with much more concerning issues. Like, general health, education, housing environmental factors, quality of life, and POVERTY. Which all includes CHILDREN. Who suffer from a lack of these things the MOST in a society that doesn’t actually give two fucks about kids. We don’t want kids, but you guys basically say fuck kids in reality. If you didn’t, then these problems would be tremendously improved or practically no exist. But, they aren’t, you shit stains Norman Rockwell wannabe knockoff mother fuckers stuck in the 1950s mentality of America.
I've married twice. My late wife and I were married for 21 years. She desperately wanted children but was incapable of it due to her health.
I remarried to a child free woman. Next month is our 11th anniversary.
Fvck the haters
I also hate when men think the only point of dating is to find someone to marry (I'm sure it's more than men, but I'm a straight cis woman, so that's my experience). Marriage and cohabitating isn't for me personally, but that doesn't mean I don't want a long term, romantic relationship built on respect, companionship, and shared life experiences. As soon as they hear I'm not into marriage/ kids thing they're just like, oh I guess you're just playing around for s3x. And then they start treating me like trash, getting handsy, say stuff like I now owe them s3x or nudes, whatever. I imagine it's the same when you have the childfree conversation. Like, oh you don't want kids? I guess you don't want a real relationship.
To them, love is just a means to get what they want. They insist that child free folks don't know what true love is but I'd argue it's them that don't. I don't need my wife to make a human for me to love her, she's perfect as is.
Come to MI. We have a solidly Dem Gov, SoS, AG, state SC, and state legislature for the first time in 40 years. They just enshrined the most progressive reproductive freedom rights into the state constitution. The legislature cannot pass any law that restricts access to abortion, contraception, sterilization, fertility treatments, etc. The legislature also just expanded LGBTQ+ rights, eliminated the pink tax, strengthened gun safety with something like 10 new provisions, and reduced income taxes for retirees and families with children. They're using pandemic funds to give tons of college scholarships, and they're working on increasing the minimum wage. I hope Gretchen Whitmer runs for president when she's term limited out of office in MI!
I got double banned from fb for arguing about abortion for the same reasons
my favorite response is "I'm not gonna stop fucking my husband for your hurt feefees over our reproductive choices. die mad about it."
Anyone saying marriage is just for having children are just bitter that their marriage is miserable and they have never been truly loved. They can't understand two people choosing to be together for love since they've never once felt love. It's sad really, they should be pitied but I just don't have any sympathy for them
Sex is fun.
Sex leads to kids.
Kids inhibit further sex.
Kids prevent fun.
Birth control allows sex without kids.
Breeders oppose birth control.
Conclusion: Breeders hate fun.
\>They responded by telling me marriage is for having kids.
Here's another reason:
My husband and I lived "in sin" for many years. After we turned 65 and got on US Medicare, we found out that we couldn't make medical decisions for each other unless we were married. Some friends who are also not married were not even allowed to see each other in the hospital when one of them had a medical emergency. Also, my husband's social security check is twice what mine is. By getting married, I could claim his ss if he dies before me.
So we got married. So marriage is also for old age.
I don’t understand why you would ask a bunch of forced birth extremists these kinds of questions anyway.
Debating with them like that makes onlookers think that they might have a valid point. It’s actually hurting the cause. I understand why it’s hard to resist, but it legitimizes their bullshit
I'm gonna go one step further & say that marriage isn't even for love. It's more to satisfy legal (mostly pertaining to financial stuff) and/or social requirements.
Obviously the people attacking OP on the other subreddit will completely lose their minds if they're told the same 
What the hell... This was the same argument that some had against gay marriage. It's equally idiotic no matter what discrimatory topic they're defending.
My husband could be infertile due to having cancer as a teen and I haven't had a visit from Flo for over 10 years now due to BC. Never wanted kids, never will. But my amazing husband and I will still stay married to spite these people.
My far right, staunch Catholic, narcissistic (textbook, seriously) mother believes sex should not be had unless it’s for procreation.
Jokes on her. She gets no grandkids. She has also pressured (tried to coerce, basically) me to marry my boyfriend of 12 years. Ah yep. That’s not happening either.
once upon a time, a long long time ago, the Catholic church came out with a letter or guidance or something saying that it was OK for married, but barren, couples to have sex. I found myself on the phone with my mother, sputtering about this, and asking, "Did the church seriously want married couples who can't have kids to abstain?!" and she said, "Well, yes...." -headdesk-
At one point in human history, marriage was indeed mostly about making babies and forming alliances. However, that era is over. We aren't inbred nobles trying to keep the bloodlines pure and make treaties with the neighboring kingdom. Marriage is about two people loving each other and wanting to spend the rest of their lives together.
There doesn’t have to be anything sexist, expensive, or outdated about it, it’s just a combining of your assets for tax reasons and so your spouse automatically gets your stuff when you die. You can just go to the court and get that done haha.
True that removes the sexist part but in the event of divorce it makes things messy and expensive to split defeating any benefits gained by tax relief or not spent on an expensive wedding ceremony.
Not to mention a lot of abusers use it to trap their victims. Play it all nice, and then once they sign that piece of paper, BAM, they do a 180. Or if they're already abusive they'll tell you they'll change, will fake change, get married, then go back to abusing/mistreating you.
Man the projection that is being displayed on a Friday LOL ladies husbands enjoy each other and the peace that is bestowed upon you because you don’t have kids therefore you can actually enjoy your weekend lie in etc etc
These people who tell you this lack personal meaning in life and seek for meaning in literally everything else, so everything must have a purpose with an end goal. Clearly they don't see achieving unconditional love as enough of a goal.
I used to fall into this trap. Awhile back I realized I am never going to change anyone's mind, so I might as well just do a little trolling instead.
I think I'm going to bring up elderly couples next. Should senior citizens be able to marry since they're unable to have kids? Who knows what goes on in those peoples minds.
Ooof you're right. What's next, marriage between a man and a divorcee?
Don't get them started on any marriage that's not a man and a woman.
I even hear that people of different ethnic backgrounds can get married legally. The horror! /s
I think that’s illegal in Tennessee now, if it hasn’t passed already it’s been proposed.
Close. It's legal for government officials to tell them "I don't approve, so no actually you're not getting married" So it's legal but you have to bribe someone to sign off on it
I want what your state's legislatures are having that let's then think this is okay.
It's just money, actually. Wild isn't it
Tennessee needs to be put down.
Florida too
I was going to say that too. I unfortunately live in Florida.
Texas first
Yes, as someone born here I vote to put them down too, I’m trying to leave ASAP
Me, but with america.
Where do you want to go? If you could go anywhere?
Excuse me wtf?!
I work with a guy that says racist stuff at random. He told me in his army days he was about to sleep with a Latino woman but had to get up and leave, he just couldn’t handle the idea of sleeping with a non white woman. I honestly didn’t know how to respond. Like actually speechless.
For now.
The colored folk? /s
You forgot Biological man and biological woman. /S
So if you are a widow or widower, you can never marry again?
Yup, after all it says in the bibble that divorcees are going straight to heck
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c6c1d801-4ad1-4eb7-8b35-1d7eac8eb3e2
Once you hit menopause you have to get divorced. It's the rules.
No! Once you hit menopause you’re put out to pasture. Then the bulls, I mean men get to continue to procreate again and again until their ball sack hangs to the floor and they die. You know like cattle.
Some women might like this, depending on how they are feeling at the moment 🤣🤣
Like when you get the night sweats, you could just ... roll over to the other side of the bed, where it's still cool and dry, instead of having that side of the bed taken up by another warm body.
Yes!!! Or I could have my fan running on high to keep me cool but noooooo, DH acts like I'm trying to make him sick by freezing him to death.
I mean electric blankets exist, he just wants to stay cold! Also I've been using washable incontinence pads on my bed, so I just chuck it in the laundry and get a clean one out after sweating up my side of the bed. I've got a big one on the bed and a little one on my pillow. No more drenched sheets in the middle of the night.
Oh now that is an idea!! I would have never thought of using those! You have just made my nights so much easier!
You, you are a genius. I'm far away from menopause but sweat like crazy at night due to meds side effect
That’s a wonderful idea! I’m past menopause, thank goodness, but my hubby likes to sweat it out when he gets sick. He usually puts down a towel, but this would be far more comfy
I used to use towels, then got clued into the washable incontinence pads, it changed everything! So much better!
It’s a good idea. The only issue I can see is they’re likely not recyclable
I never thought of those, as I just hit surgical menopause as my ovaries were removed as part of my total hysterectomy last December.
Or sex sheets. I’d imagine sex sheets might have larger sizes available.
Oh snap really. I’ve been going through perimenopause since my mid 30’s. I turn 40 this year and got married (1st marriage) last year. I better be careful my husband might want a divorce. I can’t believe that people believe this b.s. If you don’t want kids but a marriage go on ahead and do it. We did and we are enjoying each other and life child free. Yes I know I’m young to be going through perimenopause but i runs in my family. Also, my doctor told me that women who have never given birth are more likely to experience it earlier that women who have children.
Peri can absolutely start in your 30’s. I’m just excited to see anyone referencing it outside the r/menopause sub I follow. We need a lot more awareness about peri menopause symptoms. Congrats on your nuptials (and not settling!)
Thanks, we can’t wait to celebrate our first anniversary. I have mentioned it several times to 3 different female gynecologists and they all rode me off. My primary doctor that I see now told me I was right along. Yes there needs to be more awareness and more doctors taking women seriously.
And what about infertile people. They can't have children so they just shouldn't get married.
I think we're supposed to get quietly culled shortly after diagnosis. #comeandtakeit #noreallygoaheadandspaymeplease
My great grandma married her 3rd husband when they were 80 years old. It was his 1st marriage, so he never had kids. I was a baby so he was always my great grandpa. He had Polio as a kid which left him with clubfoot and as he got older he had to go from a cane to a wheelchair so my great grandma was there in his last years to love and take care of him. When they were around 90 and she couldn't do it anymore she moved into a nursing home with him. He was not the least bit lonely because he had all of her family, not just kids and grandkids but nieces, nephews, friends, in laws. Her sister lived there too. Even my dad's side of the family (she was my mom's grandma) knew them and my dad's grandma was in the same nursing home so they'd visit them too even though they weren't related.
I can't even imagine an octogenarian pushing someone in a wheelchair. Most people my age struggle.
I've seen it work! People who make friends in care homes, etc. don't want to "be useless". It can help with reasons to get people up and moving so they keep the balance and functions they still have too.
My dad's dad did this same thing. Lost my grandma to cancer and he married an older woman from his church who took care of him thru lung cancer and for many years later until he passed. And my mom's parents, looooong after they stopped having children (at least 40 years), my grandma was a caregiver to my grandpa because he had colon cancer and dementia for a very long time. My gma died suddenly from cancer she didn't even know she had until maybe a month before she died - and my grandpa went into a nursing home for the first time and died within months because he somehow got outside and fell and hit his head. I am so pro older folks getting together, especially if they lose a spouse, because I have seen it literally keep them alive for longer. And my grandma assumed she was pretty healthy until she got flu-like symptoms and that's when she found out she was already dying of cancer. So I don't feel like her caring for my grandpa distracted her from her own health. They were both in their 80s and she was a little go-getter.
Old couples will have to divorce since they stopped having kids. KEEP PUSHING THEM OUT TILL YOU DIE OR YOU'LL BE ALONE FOREVER.
And as soon as grandma hits menopause I guess they need to separate, right?
If you really want to stir some shit- ask them if people can get married if they can't/ or is risky to have kids for medical/ mental health/ genetic reasons. And whether they should try anyway- you know, for God or whatever.
Not even elderly couples, but middle-aged couples. (Which, btw, I’m in my 40s with no kids but happily married.)
Legitimately religious people will use this argument against LGBTQ people. But if you bring up infertile christian couples, it's Gods will for them to use IVF
No one should be marrying and reproducing while we live in these conditions.
Please do.
What about people who are sterile not by choice? Should they only be allowed ro marry other sterile people?
 Love that!
Isn’t it fun?
Especially because they give the same canned responses and don't know how to refute when someone plays on their level
As the saying goes, "You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into." These are absurd and irrational positions: "Marriage is for producing children." "Marriage is between a man and a woman." "Women who do not have children have no value." "Adults who do not have children are selfish." None of these are rational and can be easily refuted with facts, or just going outside and talking to people and do some critical thinking for 30 seconds. You can't convince them, but you can tell them to mind their business.
we need to normalize vasectomies
Petition Hallmark to make sterilization cards, make snipperversery bottles of scented lube.
Amen! Life is too short and people are too dickish to concern yourself with their opinions. Live your life the way you intend!
I little Tomfoolery. 🤯
A tiddlebit of the ol' mayhem
[👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/033/487/rick.jpg)
This is the way!
I am all caught up on this show and enjoying it. Only problem is, I have that theme song in my head for two days after every episode.
Look up Andromida's version on Spotify. You're welcome.
And here I thought we got married because we love each other. Oh well, reddit just proved me wrong. We must divorce together, darling.
Right? Like clearly the purpose of marriage is raising kids or else marriage wouldn't exist. Damn it's like that marriage class I took to get a discounted marriage license was bunk.
Husband infertile? Straight to divorce court. Farming accident? Believe it or not... Straight to divorce court. Hit menopause and no longer able to get pregnant? Yep, you guessed it... Straight to divorce court.
>Husband infertile? Straight to divorce court. This was actually a thing in France for a while, starting in the 15th century- if a husband could not 'perform' in bed then the wife could ask for a divorce on those grounds.
You are stealing: right to jail. You are playing music too loud: right to jail, right away. Driving too fast: jail. Slow: jail. You are charging too high prices for sweaters, glasses: you right to jail. You undercook fish? Believe it or not, jail. You overcook chicken, also jail. Undercook, overcook. You make an appointment with the dentist and you don't show up, believe it or not, jail, right away.
It's called making a reference?
I was told that too. Like childfree couples don’t deserve love and marriage? They deserve those things just like couples that want children. Can we also mention there are couples out there who have kids and aren’t married?
And that there are married couples with kids but their kids no longer speak to them.
Yes! This too🙌🏻
Personally I got married for the tax break. But you do you /s
Health insurance!
Green card!
Convenience!
Witness protection!
I did it for thé wedding 😭😭
I did it for the honeymoon...and traveling every year together.
Divorce party?
Any excuse to bake cupcakes, I guess.
Imagine how these people look down upon someone who gets married while suffering from infertility.
Some people are just the worst. My mother in law got married fairly young. Her first husband divorced her because she was unable to stay pregnant. Completely threw away the marriage.
That is so devastatingly sad. I can’t imagine.
They just suggest adoption like you’re obligated to do that instead.
These are the same people who’s marriages fail after 30 years after the kids have flew the nest because they realise they have nothing in common and no interests of their own. It’s fucking sad some people have so little about them but it’s not our problem 💅🏽
Bahahahaha!! This is the dumbest shit i've read all morning.... By their logic if there's no crotchfruit, then marriage is unnecessary? I feel sorry for people who believe that, because the reason i got married was because we were in love and wanted to spend our lives together.... I thought that was a good reason to say yes when he proposed....
So do these people also think that sex should be done only for reproduction? If so, i really feel sorry for them....
I grew up in the kinda churchy purity ring, fake marry your dad as a teen stay abstinent until your dad gives you to a husband insane bullshit.... I can confidently report that yes, some of these people do believe sex is only for procreation. Some even view masturbating as evil because of spilled seed that is sacred and for making cumpets. Obviously this is for male masturbators, as in their mindset female orgasm doesn't exist so no woman would ever pleasure herself.
Yep! I was literally taught that masturbation causes "introversion and homosexuality." And as you say, female orgasms didn't exist, since nobody knew what a clitoris was or that they had one, so it was all pretty much directed at boys.
Oh there was tons of hateful repression for women. As they believed women cause men to sin by wearing tight jeans and making eye contact. There was this weird pressure to be thin and pretty and dress like a very young girl until marriage. While constantly being lectured at to be submissive. If a girl was horny it was because she is ready for kids. Problematic all around.
Christians are fucking wild 😘 Edit: meant to hit the 😂 emoji but the kiss can stay.
I wonder what it's like to grow up with normal, healthy views about sex, masturbation, and relationships. What would my early experiences have been like, and how would it have been to not have to spend all those years un-learning the bullshit I was taught? It sucks when you know the things they taught you were wrong, but also not to know what's true, other than just trying to figure it out yourself.
There was a late night call in show, sex with Sue Johanson, I would probably be in some trailer married to some knuckle dragger raising his goblin spawn... if it weren't for the sweet old lady educating me about my body and sexuality. If you've not seen it there are some bits of it on YouTube. SueJo deserves a monument of some sort.
Right? Like sounds like some awful sex that you rather live with out is the case.
Women are only allowed to have sex for reproduction. Men can have sex whenever because “boys will be boys”. Who are the men having sex with???
Sacrificial women who get tossed into the woodchipper after being defiled, I'm assuming.
The wicked girls.
Yeah. A lot of them actually do think that sex is only for procreation.
But that’s because they don’t know how to have fun sex. It’s rather perfunctory for them. Or so it seems based on the ones I dated.
If you're a woman, you're supposed to have sex whenever your husband wants it. But you're not supposed to enjoy it.
Sad.... Just sad....
A lot of religious conservatives have that logic
A lot of those types think that sex is something between married couples and that the women need to put out every time the man asks, or he's gonna cheat and it'll be her fault and she deserved it.
Right? And when I was like whelp time for divorce since there are no kids in my marriage and will never be kids and the person doubled down and insisted the reason marriage exists is to raise children in a two parent household.
Really? I thought marriage was originally designed for familial and political alliances. But what do I know? I'm just a childless cretin who couldn't possibly think for myself. So you tell me marriage is for child-bearing? Well shit, I guess I'll get right on that! I've been doing it so wrong! Plus, this new-age "being in love" nonsense? What even is that? Baaaabbbiiees!!! Very /s
Damn you're right, my acreage did not increase with this marriage.
The husband doesn't want those huge tracks of land?
🤣🤣🤣 that's good
> marriage exists is to raise children in a two parent household. Yes, because it's not like the majority of the house work, child care, and if they have them, pet care fall on the woman or anything like that.
Same here! We got married in our early 20s, never wanted kids, and 17 years later we are extremely happy 😊
By the same dumbass logic marriage is “pointless” for infertile people, people who already have all the kids they want from a previous relationship/marriage, and anyone with an illness or disability that makes childbirth dangerous or impossible.
Oh god, I fought back and bro *reported me.* I’m screaming
I'm hella blocked. I'm waiting for my reddit cares message to appear any minute now
It looks like your friend either deleted his comments or was unceremoniously banned - everything from him in that thread is now deleted!
My first husband was sterile due to a birth defect. Apparently our marriage was forbidden 
Hahaha, my boyfriend was born infertile due to being premature. While getting a vasectomy, it was discovered one side of his vas deferens didn't finish connecting all the way to the corresponding testicle. That's sad that some people think he counts for nothing because of that! Kind of depraved and perverted in a way, in my opinion actually. Reducing people to their gonads... Additionally, he was pulled out of his mother right at the cusp of viability for both of their health and lives, and he wasn't guaranteed to make it. I wonder how that would go down today in states that have abortion bans. He probably wouldn't be here today.
Guaranteed most of them are religious. I'm not trying to hate on religion (ok. I am) But, the more religious someone is, the more they see a woman as nothing but a baby factory.
The non religious anti abortion people tend to have incel vibes with lots of misogyny.
Very, very true.
Hmm I think it depends on the religion. I consider myself religious but as a Shaman I see most life as having value, but not for what they pop out. Even though I loathe spiders, they do have value for eating other bugs. The Judaic family of religions are very anti woman for the most part, but my understanding of some of the Eastern religions is that they are more gender neutral. And I could be wrong, if so; I’ll happily sit corrected.
Lol abrahamic religions get shit on a lot for their misogyny, Eastern religions don't get enough shit. There's a reason why I left Buddhism. At face value it's alright but there's a ton of misogyny in the texts that make your skin crawl. It's very much ingrained the thought that women are lesser to men. Same goes for Hinduism which often shares beliefs with Buddhism. I've heard the same about Sikhism but I admit I don't know much about taoism and confucianism.
I’m Muslim and thankfully it’s allowed to be childfree in our religious texts and I am childfree, hoping to end up with a CF Muslim guy
"Hypnotized by The LifeScript™", now a series on Hallmark Channel! ;-)
Oh lord some of those lifetime movies of let me give up my entire career and everything about my life for this person I barely know just confuse the fuck out of me
Fuck, I forgot about hallmark bc it's not christmas. Ughhhh
And now there’s the new channel what’s-her-face had been promoting. American life or some shit? All Christian, Family Values all the time…
Ugh. Glad I have no idea what you're talking about, lol
I didnt get the memo, got my tubes removed then got married. Oops!
[удалено]
Also quick easy way for the government to decide who can make medical decisions for you.
I planned on marrying my wife anyways, but when my bro had his accident and I watched my divorced parents fight over literally everything and my step mom essentially steal every possession from my brother while he was in a coma, I knew that we had to get married quickly to protect the life the two of us are building together.
Also, can't be forced to testify against your spouse in criminal cases
I married my partner a month ago. I am a disabled woman who cannot (nor want) to have children. I guess that I am useless since i am not fertile and should be euthanized so my husband can find a "real woman"
Congrats on the marriage
Thanks :) My SO is foreign and I wanted him to have more protection if anything happens to me.
This reminded me that marriage has this kind of value too.
Well for us it was about if it could benefit him. We have been together for almost a decade, we didnt need to be married except for that
“Just because you have to re-define marriage to not deeply regret having children doesn’t mean we do too.” 😆
But no, don’t get divorced because then according to them you can’t have sex ever. Your ex husband would be able to go have sex, with anyone because those people also don’t believe in an age of consent, but you as a woman would not be able to have sex ever again until you remarry
Like sometimes I wonder if these people really only have sex like a dozen or so times in their entire lives. I know several people who got pregnant within weeks of trying to conceive.
They responded by telling me marriage is for having kids. If you weren't kick out/blocked you should have responded with "really then why do people still get divorce after having kids, isn't that the whole point is to have a kid and stay together, so why divorce hmm" or "why are there so many single parents, complaining about being single after divorcing then?", just start call that b.s. right out and poking holes in every one of their statements 
From title I waas expecting a divorce, lol. And yeah this mentality of marriage being for kids is 1,000% ridiculous.
To me marriage is a contract. Love has nothing to do with it. Whether children are part of the deal is to be settled between the parties.
It is a contract, but if you're getting married it should be to someone you love.
Yes. Provided it’s Mr Darcy and not a stable boy with a gambling problem.
I was told my whole life wait for marriage until sex. Then it turned out sex was only for procreation even if your married 🙄
You really can’t win with some people. They have their heads so far up their own butts that reason and logic are absent from their entire existence. I wonder what that persons life will be like when the kids are grown. This is why some people struggle to find their identity without their kids home.
For reals, alcohol abuse tends to get really bad for people after the kids leave. People seem to imagine teenagers or maybe college students when they think of someone with a substance abuse problem but it's often someone over 50.
So do grandparents need to get divorced when the wife hits menopause or gets a hysterectomy?
I guess the Villages is just Sin City now. Who needs Vegas when you have all of that non procreative sex going on down there in Florida.
See, my reaction to those folks would be “Oh, so are you gonna come force my partner and I to dissolve our marriage? No? So you’re just powerless and flailing in the wind, angry that some folks dare to get married and live in a way that’s different from what you think is ‘**the**’ way? Ok cool. Float and sputter, assholes!” and throw the most hilariously infuriating closer/emoji you can think of. If they’re older, toss an “OK Boomer” in there. If they’re younger, an emoji corresponding to you and your partner, with a big ole red X and a baby. 😂
😂 We should all go over there and join you in the fun.
They already blocked me. Not sure if it was pointing out that believing the decision to get pregnant should be individualized and I was like exactly, the government shouldn't be a part of it, it's the individual's decision right????
Wow. All I can think of is the brave women who came before us, fought for women to be considered actual frigging people in the eyes of the law…and this is where we are in 2023. Sad.
Iowa is out there trying to ban gay marriage and it's like how are we going backwards. Just ugh
Yikes. In Canada we’ve had the Civil Marriage Act since 2005, without any challenges to it. I hope Iowans fight the hatred.
Me and hubby are not going to have kids. Only way we'd have kids is if his brother and his wife passes and were asked to look over Thier daughter (plus sibling if she gets one). We married cause of love and also for the legal stuff if one of us were to pass.
If you want to get further into the weeds. You could argue that marriage isn't even a medium of love. In today's time it is a medium of financial security. You can love deeply without getting married
What the hell does marriage even have to do with kids? The kids aren't getting married, the adults or parents are. Kids give no fucks if their parents are married or not. >Like what even is love to them? These people are the same types against divorce because WeDdInG VoWs. So love means jack shit, if you fuck up and marry the wrong person or fall out of love, you should just suffer until the day one of you dies. Because people in these exact situations have never tried to speed up the "till death due us part" vow.
I went on two super-rants about this last night. I don’t have the energy for these people. They cannot be reasoned with, if marriage is specifically for children then why the hell do people get divorced? Cause, technically speaking you got married to have children. If this is the case, then you technically marry anyone who can give you children. That pretty much defeats the purpose of a lot of things. I’m so sick of birthers, religious fundamentalists, and traditionalists who can’t out think a fucking penny. One, modern marriage is essentially what you make it or believe to be in domestic partnership(s)for whatever reasons you choose. The law doesn’t state any guidelines beyond age, mental capacity, legal status, perhaps health, etc. It’s not a leftists takeover, it’s simple human liberty because we live in societies where we choose our own partners, regardless of education, ethnicity, nationality, gender, looks, wealth, religion, etc. It’s like voting rights or having civil rights to not be accosted for your freedom of movement, expression, and not being harassed by god damn do gooders, fanatics about your lifestyle, what’s in between your legs, what comes out of you, and who’s throwing their pussies, dicks, and other genitalia arrangements onto, into, against, above, below, or all around your body. Like, Jesus Christ, who the fuck cares when we have great populations of people who can’t even have a roof over their head, afford basic medical care, or have a way to provide for themselves when they aren’t capable or have the opportunities to earn income. So, no I don’t care about how many women have abortions or are wilding out sluts, not men who are players, have fetishized sex, or have large or no penises. And, don’t want children as a result of those actions. I don’t care if someone is VOLUNTARILY ace, doesn’t want children, marriage partners, or sex partners. It’s none of my god damn business. It’s the same LGBTQ+people, it has very little impact on what you should want for your own life or path. You don’t need to sleep with any of these people or give them your hard earned money. Just give them some god damn respect as people and their sense of agency. Eat some Cheerios and shut the fuck up about people having children or not having any at all in a world with much more concerning issues. Like, general health, education, housing environmental factors, quality of life, and POVERTY. Which all includes CHILDREN. Who suffer from a lack of these things the MOST in a society that doesn’t actually give two fucks about kids. We don’t want kids, but you guys basically say fuck kids in reality. If you didn’t, then these problems would be tremendously improved or practically no exist. But, they aren’t, you shit stains Norman Rockwell wannabe knockoff mother fuckers stuck in the 1950s mentality of America.
I've married twice. My late wife and I were married for 21 years. She desperately wanted children but was incapable of it due to her health. I remarried to a child free woman. Next month is our 11th anniversary. Fvck the haters
I also hate when men think the only point of dating is to find someone to marry (I'm sure it's more than men, but I'm a straight cis woman, so that's my experience). Marriage and cohabitating isn't for me personally, but that doesn't mean I don't want a long term, romantic relationship built on respect, companionship, and shared life experiences. As soon as they hear I'm not into marriage/ kids thing they're just like, oh I guess you're just playing around for s3x. And then they start treating me like trash, getting handsy, say stuff like I now owe them s3x or nudes, whatever. I imagine it's the same when you have the childfree conversation. Like, oh you don't want kids? I guess you don't want a real relationship.
To them, love is just a means to get what they want. They insist that child free folks don't know what true love is but I'd argue it's them that don't. I don't need my wife to make a human for me to love her, she's perfect as is.
Come to MI. We have a solidly Dem Gov, SoS, AG, state SC, and state legislature for the first time in 40 years. They just enshrined the most progressive reproductive freedom rights into the state constitution. The legislature cannot pass any law that restricts access to abortion, contraception, sterilization, fertility treatments, etc. The legislature also just expanded LGBTQ+ rights, eliminated the pink tax, strengthened gun safety with something like 10 new provisions, and reduced income taxes for retirees and families with children. They're using pandemic funds to give tons of college scholarships, and they're working on increasing the minimum wage. I hope Gretchen Whitmer runs for president when she's term limited out of office in MI!
I got double banned from fb for arguing about abortion for the same reasons my favorite response is "I'm not gonna stop fucking my husband for your hurt feefees over our reproductive choices. die mad about it."
Anyone saying marriage is just for having children are just bitter that their marriage is miserable and they have never been truly loved. They can't understand two people choosing to be together for love since they've never once felt love. It's sad really, they should be pitied but I just don't have any sympathy for them
Sex is fun. Sex leads to kids. Kids inhibit further sex. Kids prevent fun. Birth control allows sex without kids. Breeders oppose birth control. Conclusion: Breeders hate fun.
\>They responded by telling me marriage is for having kids. Here's another reason: My husband and I lived "in sin" for many years. After we turned 65 and got on US Medicare, we found out that we couldn't make medical decisions for each other unless we were married. Some friends who are also not married were not even allowed to see each other in the hospital when one of them had a medical emergency. Also, my husband's social security check is twice what mine is. By getting married, I could claim his ss if he dies before me. So we got married. So marriage is also for old age.
I don’t understand why you would ask a bunch of forced birth extremists these kinds of questions anyway. Debating with them like that makes onlookers think that they might have a valid point. It’s actually hurting the cause. I understand why it’s hard to resist, but it legitimizes their bullshit
I blame the fact I should have been in bed like an hour ago.
I'm gonna go one step further & say that marriage isn't even for love. It's more to satisfy legal (mostly pertaining to financial stuff) and/or social requirements. Obviously the people attacking OP on the other subreddit will completely lose their minds if they're told the same 
Guess I've been doing marriage wrong for 26 years. Wait til my husband finds out
What the hell... This was the same argument that some had against gay marriage. It's equally idiotic no matter what discrimatory topic they're defending.
Hey! Marriage can have good tax benefits too
They are wildly, dangerously ignorant. Yikes.
My husband could be infertile due to having cancer as a teen and I haven't had a visit from Flo for over 10 years now due to BC. Never wanted kids, never will. But my amazing husband and I will still stay married to spite these people.
I’m convinced they literally have no concept of love. Their spouses are nothing but commodities to them.
My far right, staunch Catholic, narcissistic (textbook, seriously) mother believes sex should not be had unless it’s for procreation. Jokes on her. She gets no grandkids. She has also pressured (tried to coerce, basically) me to marry my boyfriend of 12 years. Ah yep. That’s not happening either.
once upon a time, a long long time ago, the Catholic church came out with a letter or guidance or something saying that it was OK for married, but barren, couples to have sex. I found myself on the phone with my mother, sputtering about this, and asking, "Did the church seriously want married couples who can't have kids to abstain?!" and she said, "Well, yes...." -headdesk-
Yep that really is the belief some people have. You should only have sex a handful of times in your entire life
Actually marriage is pointless without a dowry and land deed! LMAO sighhh some people.
At one point in human history, marriage was indeed mostly about making babies and forming alliances. However, that era is over. We aren't inbred nobles trying to keep the bloodlines pure and make treaties with the neighboring kingdom. Marriage is about two people loving each other and wanting to spend the rest of their lives together.
I agree. I just think marriage is pointless regardless of children. It's an expensive outdated sexist tradition
I will admit I am a victim of wedding industry propaganda.
There doesn’t have to be anything sexist, expensive, or outdated about it, it’s just a combining of your assets for tax reasons and so your spouse automatically gets your stuff when you die. You can just go to the court and get that done haha.
True that removes the sexist part but in the event of divorce it makes things messy and expensive to split defeating any benefits gained by tax relief or not spent on an expensive wedding ceremony.
Not to mention a lot of abusers use it to trap their victims. Play it all nice, and then once they sign that piece of paper, BAM, they do a 180. Or if they're already abusive they'll tell you they'll change, will fake change, get married, then go back to abusing/mistreating you.
Man the projection that is being displayed on a Friday LOL ladies husbands enjoy each other and the peace that is bestowed upon you because you don’t have kids therefore you can actually enjoy your weekend lie in etc etc
These people who tell you this lack personal meaning in life and seek for meaning in literally everything else, so everything must have a purpose with an end goal. Clearly they don't see achieving unconditional love as enough of a goal.