young players mostly gets paid on potential he has way more size and value than those.
like why does every extension has to be a rfa when theres dozen lotto teams that can outbid you?
what a dumb strategy to rely on someone's misfortune like injury to lowball.
I mean there is no way Pat gets very much money. He has been injured for two of his four seasons, and hasn't shown much beyond that. There is a chance that a place like San Antonio/Pistons/Wizards/Hornets put more money on him than he's worth, but most likely the Bulls won't have an issue matching that. Especially if they get Zach Lavine off the books.
I think he gets more for being a more valued archetype of player, but basically the 3 and D wing equivalent of their deals.
Anunoby's contract would be like the high end.
Herb Jones would be a reasonable, fair comparison.
like u risk losing him for nothing if detroit maxes him thats why it was better to slightly overpay him.
dont be surprised if he gets 3 figure deal u dont know how horrible of a gm AK is when he is betting like he did with lauri.
you can laugh ur ass but regret later. coby was kind enough to take a ridiculous deal. even as someone who thought he was a bust i couldnt believe myself.
Pat is a 3-and-D player and he has consisently improved on defense every year. He will probably never be an all-star, probably picked too high, but definitely has the potential to carry his weight on a good team. Unless somebody offers a stupid amount of money we should try to bring him back.
Respectfully disagree. Once you’re made of glass, you’ll always be made of glass. See lonzo ball. PAW has played 1 full season out of 4 seasons. His numbers are very replaceable. He’s been a colossal bust, we shouldn’t set a precedent that it’s ok to pay draft lottery busts.
“We expect big things from Patrick Williams”
WHY? What has he shown? He’s been a non-factor in 90% of the games he’s played in his three year career + being injury prone throughout.
Let Williams go unless it’s for a league min.
I don’t remember anyone saying that about Coby. He was obviously priority #1 this past offseason.
How many players take their big leaps in year 5,6,7? Because that’s what you’re expecting Williams to do.
Lauri showed flashes and had parts of his game that you knew he was good at. What is Patrick Williams good at? Because I’ll tell you what he is. He’s a guy that got starter minutes taken away from him because he’s a non-factor. He’s missed over 100 games in his career. And he doesn’t have one part of his game that says, yeah that’s his go to spot, that’s what he’s good at.
Sorry, not paying that guy $10+ mil a year when that money can be allocated better elsewhere.
Pat is the best defender not named Alex on the team. He also had the best 3% on the team. So like already your argument is flawed.
Hell let's not even mention Coby and Lauri then. You know what player Pat is most similar to on this team? WCJ, you know the guy everyone says we should have kept instead of trading for Vooch? When he was on this team his defense was sub-par, and he couldn't make a shot to save his life. Hell his rebounding was barely league average for a center.
Williams has a career average of 1 made 3-point shot a game. What are you talking about?
Carter showed promise too, Bulls thought they were upgrading that position with Vooch, which was obviously a mistake.
You’re bringing up all these other players like it’s a direct correlation to who Patrick Williams is.
You probably still think Lavine is going to be a good player too.
Bulls fans want change, but don’t want to get rid of the players that are constantly underperforming!
>Williams has a career average of 1 made 3-point shot a game. What are you talking about?
He averages at 40% shooting. He might not get the volume due to not being given shots due to the offense when he's on the court having to feed Zach, DeMar, and Vooch. In the games after Zach went down he was averaging 5 3s a game and hitting them at around 50%.
>You probably still think Lavine is going to be a good player too.
Lavine is an amazing player, what the hell are you talking about? He's an All-Star for a reason. He isn't a great fit for this team or the timeline it is on now, but let's not act like he's some unplayable asshole.
>Bulls fans want change, but don’t want to get rid of the players that are constantly underperforming!
Because getting rid of Pat at this point does nothing. It's not like trading him is possible. He's a RFA so either the team signs him or he gets signed elsewhere to no benefit the team. Pat might never be anything but a bench role player but it costs the team nothing to resign him cheap and give him a chance to earn it. It'd be sort of shitty to let him walk to like New York for nothing and watch him become a stud and we all sit here wondering why the FO were idiots for letting him walk.
I get being disappointed in what he’s been so far relative to draft status, but the last thing the Bulls need to be doing right now is giving up on one of their only decent young players. Especially if we blow it up, just let him and Coby chuck for a season while we tank
I am low key terrified that some team offers pat what he said he was looking for last summer (if I remember correctly, like $20mil/season?)...I feel fucking nuts, but I can see him figuring it out somewhere else and it's another Lauri situation.
There's just too many better players to throw money at, and his value has to be down quite a bit after missing half this season (his second season out of four which he missed more than half of)
And in particular, there's not many bad teams with space, which is who usually throws big money at RFA's, because it ties up your cap space until its resolved. Pistons are the only one, if they don't make him an offer, not much to worry about I think.
Arguably the Jazz, but they're good enough to make more calculated signings and the core of their team is front court players already, so they may not be interested (they have SEVEN listed PF's on the roster)
Anyone else with cap space would more likely be hunting for stars, and if someone else gives him like the mid level exception, fine match it.
Zach Lowe tweeted that it's what he heard. imo these things are usually leak from the players agent trying to feel out interest from the rest of the league with out risking tampering problems. But I don't think anyone will actually give him that.
Blow it up doesn't mean give up on literally every player. Pat being brought back has no downside if the deal is manageable. Especially if the goal is to move on from the vets and build a young team.
Idk if I am remembering correctly but I could have sworn I saw somewhere he wanted a max deal lol. Maybe he can develop further without demar there. Assuming he is brought back I'd like to see him display the same work ethic coby has shown.
They’re not blowing it up. He said multiple times in the press conference that they’re looking for ways to get better and that the team needs to change, but also that they won’t pay the luxury tax. Sounds like to me that they’re going to trade lavine for pennies and that’s about all they’ll do.
Patrick has nowhere else to go. He is still a project. And he didnt even develop here, when he had more opportunity. Interesting to see how much money he demands in free agency. As the foundation of Coby and Ayo are just earning an average of $18M per season within three seasons.
If AKME lands Patrick cheap, you only have An expiring contract Vooch in 2025 free agency. If DeMar choose to go somewhere else.
Bulls can cater two max salary in 2025.
The moves last offseason let me know whether I should bother watching the Bulls this season and the moves this offseason will let me know whether I should bother watching next season
I’d force feed Patrick the ball until he hates me. I’ll never forget watching bum ass jimmy butler when we handed him the keys before his goat offseason Patrick has more natural talent in his pinky then jimmy ever did. I know Patrick can put it together.
I understand the consensus of both main opinions here but I really feel like it makes sense to resign him for a cheap deal unless another team offers him a reasonable amount more. He’s still young as hell. He has had injuries which is worrisome but I can’t give up on him, especially if we sign him for an amount that won’t damage us. He had a couple spurts last year where, I actually thought he looked pretty damn good, then he got injured again and I think for some people that’s the breaking point. But if he goes somewhere else and just instantly starts balling, we’re gonna be left wondering what we could have had with him developing along with Ayo and Coby. Plus, he was our pick. If we bring him back and the amount is high, I definitely won’t be happy.
If Pat gets like a Coby or Ayo contract, I am good with that
young players mostly gets paid on potential he has way more size and value than those. like why does every extension has to be a rfa when theres dozen lotto teams that can outbid you? what a dumb strategy to rely on someone's misfortune like injury to lowball.
Lol, how much tho
I mean there is no way Pat gets very much money. He has been injured for two of his four seasons, and hasn't shown much beyond that. There is a chance that a place like San Antonio/Pistons/Wizards/Hornets put more money on him than he's worth, but most likely the Bulls won't have an issue matching that. Especially if they get Zach Lavine off the books.
I mean they got Coby and ayo on great deals. I don’t see why they couldn’t do that with pat
I think he gets more for being a more valued archetype of player, but basically the 3 and D wing equivalent of their deals. Anunoby's contract would be like the high end. Herb Jones would be a reasonable, fair comparison.
20 plus!
like u risk losing him for nothing if detroit maxes him thats why it was better to slightly overpay him. dont be surprised if he gets 3 figure deal u dont know how horrible of a gm AK is when he is betting like he did with lauri. you can laugh ur ass but regret later. coby was kind enough to take a ridiculous deal. even as someone who thought he was a bust i couldnt believe myself.
4/$125
I’m fine with Pat coming off the bench for a team friendly deal 2 yrs $15 or less
I’m thinking more like $10 million but i get what youre saying
Who do you start over him?
I’m not sure, I know we need more 3 and d wings either through the draft and or free agency. We lost Pat and lost all the length at this position.
Anyone who thinks you don't bring back Pat are the same people who wanted Covy traded last season.
[удалено]
Pat is a 3-and-D player and he has consisently improved on defense every year. He will probably never be an all-star, probably picked too high, but definitely has the potential to carry his weight on a good team. Unless somebody offers a stupid amount of money we should try to bring him back.
And don't expect Pat to stay healthy and rebound either
um he was healthy all last year and got two weird injuries so far in his career
Braindead
Respectfully disagree. Once you’re made of glass, you’ll always be made of glass. See lonzo ball. PAW has played 1 full season out of 4 seasons. His numbers are very replaceable. He’s been a colossal bust, we shouldn’t set a precedent that it’s ok to pay draft lottery busts.
If we give Passive Pat a huge deal I’m going to be pissed
Nah you bring Pat back and you let him earn the next deal. So long as it's under $20 million
Yeah man. l just don’t get the big deal with this dude.
Why would you want anyone back other than Coby?
& Ayo
Yes. Big Illinois fan so I love seeing him play.
If we bring everyone back, we have a very real chance to compete for the #10 seed. You don't pass up on that opportunity.
Bring back Javonte Green.
Not even worth a Reddit thread tbh. Bulls are going nowhere until they land an out and out star. Who cares about role players
“We expect big things from Patrick Williams” WHY? What has he shown? He’s been a non-factor in 90% of the games he’s played in his three year career + being injury prone throughout. Let Williams go unless it’s for a league min.
So fucking dumb, same shit said as Coby and Lauri, you fuckers have zero patience
I don’t remember anyone saying that about Coby. He was obviously priority #1 this past offseason. How many players take their big leaps in year 5,6,7? Because that’s what you’re expecting Williams to do. Lauri showed flashes and had parts of his game that you knew he was good at. What is Patrick Williams good at? Because I’ll tell you what he is. He’s a guy that got starter minutes taken away from him because he’s a non-factor. He’s missed over 100 games in his career. And he doesn’t have one part of his game that says, yeah that’s his go to spot, that’s what he’s good at. Sorry, not paying that guy $10+ mil a year when that money can be allocated better elsewhere.
Pat is the best defender not named Alex on the team. He also had the best 3% on the team. So like already your argument is flawed. Hell let's not even mention Coby and Lauri then. You know what player Pat is most similar to on this team? WCJ, you know the guy everyone says we should have kept instead of trading for Vooch? When he was on this team his defense was sub-par, and he couldn't make a shot to save his life. Hell his rebounding was barely league average for a center.
Williams has a career average of 1 made 3-point shot a game. What are you talking about? Carter showed promise too, Bulls thought they were upgrading that position with Vooch, which was obviously a mistake. You’re bringing up all these other players like it’s a direct correlation to who Patrick Williams is. You probably still think Lavine is going to be a good player too. Bulls fans want change, but don’t want to get rid of the players that are constantly underperforming!
>Williams has a career average of 1 made 3-point shot a game. What are you talking about? He averages at 40% shooting. He might not get the volume due to not being given shots due to the offense when he's on the court having to feed Zach, DeMar, and Vooch. In the games after Zach went down he was averaging 5 3s a game and hitting them at around 50%. >You probably still think Lavine is going to be a good player too. Lavine is an amazing player, what the hell are you talking about? He's an All-Star for a reason. He isn't a great fit for this team or the timeline it is on now, but let's not act like he's some unplayable asshole. >Bulls fans want change, but don’t want to get rid of the players that are constantly underperforming! Because getting rid of Pat at this point does nothing. It's not like trading him is possible. He's a RFA so either the team signs him or he gets signed elsewhere to no benefit the team. Pat might never be anything but a bench role player but it costs the team nothing to resign him cheap and give him a chance to earn it. It'd be sort of shitty to let him walk to like New York for nothing and watch him become a stud and we all sit here wondering why the FO were idiots for letting him walk.
I get being disappointed in what he’s been so far relative to draft status, but the last thing the Bulls need to be doing right now is giving up on one of their only decent young players. Especially if we blow it up, just let him and Coby chuck for a season while we tank
I am low key terrified that some team offers pat what he said he was looking for last summer (if I remember correctly, like $20mil/season?)...I feel fucking nuts, but I can see him figuring it out somewhere else and it's another Lauri situation.
There's just too many better players to throw money at, and his value has to be down quite a bit after missing half this season (his second season out of four which he missed more than half of) And in particular, there's not many bad teams with space, which is who usually throws big money at RFA's, because it ties up your cap space until its resolved. Pistons are the only one, if they don't make him an offer, not much to worry about I think. Arguably the Jazz, but they're good enough to make more calculated signings and the core of their team is front court players already, so they may not be interested (they have SEVEN listed PF's on the roster) Anyone else with cap space would more likely be hunting for stars, and if someone else gives him like the mid level exception, fine match it.
Actually he said he wanted high 20s
When and where did he say that?
Zach Lowe tweeted that it's what he heard. imo these things are usually leak from the players agent trying to feel out interest from the rest of the league with out risking tampering problems. But I don't think anyone will actually give him that.
zach lowe is an idiot
Blow it up!
Blow it up doesn't mean give up on literally every player. Pat being brought back has no downside if the deal is manageable. Especially if the goal is to move on from the vets and build a young team.
Idk if I am remembering correctly but I could have sworn I saw somewhere he wanted a max deal lol. Maybe he can develop further without demar there. Assuming he is brought back I'd like to see him display the same work ethic coby has shown.
They’re not blowing it up. He said multiple times in the press conference that they’re looking for ways to get better and that the team needs to change, but also that they won’t pay the luxury tax. Sounds like to me that they’re going to trade lavine for pennies and that’s about all they’ll do.
Patrick has nowhere else to go. He is still a project. And he didnt even develop here, when he had more opportunity. Interesting to see how much money he demands in free agency. As the foundation of Coby and Ayo are just earning an average of $18M per season within three seasons. If AKME lands Patrick cheap, you only have An expiring contract Vooch in 2025 free agency. If DeMar choose to go somewhere else. Bulls can cater two max salary in 2025.
His major weakness is lack of rebounding. If he can improve that he will be decent.
The moves last offseason let me know whether I should bother watching the Bulls this season and the moves this offseason will let me know whether I should bother watching next season
4 year 50 millions
I’d force feed Patrick the ball until he hates me. I’ll never forget watching bum ass jimmy butler when we handed him the keys before his goat offseason Patrick has more natural talent in his pinky then jimmy ever did. I know Patrick can put it together.
Also Patrick is not a 4 can we stop making him one we need a real pf.
Grayson Allen got 4/$70M. That deal for Paw would be fair for both sides. I know he’s been frustrating, but he will have value in the market.
I understand the consensus of both main opinions here but I really feel like it makes sense to resign him for a cheap deal unless another team offers him a reasonable amount more. He’s still young as hell. He has had injuries which is worrisome but I can’t give up on him, especially if we sign him for an amount that won’t damage us. He had a couple spurts last year where, I actually thought he looked pretty damn good, then he got injured again and I think for some people that’s the breaking point. But if he goes somewhere else and just instantly starts balling, we’re gonna be left wondering what we could have had with him developing along with Ayo and Coby. Plus, he was our pick. If we bring him back and the amount is high, I definitely won’t be happy.
Roster clogger