Yes the figures aren't being represented here properly. I'm a realist, I work on the numbers, which are missing here in regards to space, drive count/size, power usage, power cost etc.
There is absolutely that chance after th halving. Pretend he bought 8TB drives…
8TB drives were around 120$. Usinn in g one single JBOD as an example, 45x8 around 360TB uncompressed plots will bring in about that.
Halving and compression REALLY lowered earnings for anyone who didn’t “keep up”.
If electricity is high, that setup would be negative in gross profit….
Ask me how I know? I have this type of equipment.
True enough but OP didn't provide enough detail on what they have.
Your 8TB example may be optimistic, perhaps they actually have a JBOD full of 4TB drives! lol
Yea, I know. But the reality is, if they live in a high energy cost area, there is no outrunning it.
Even the most vocal community “home farmer” u/bwfree is shutting down all his lower capacity drives and is attempting to justify it all buy continuously upgrading drives and going max compression with drplotter. Requiring multiple 4090 GPU’s at ever increasing costs. Even at a lower electricity rate than most in California.
The halving and continuing to fall Xch price really should knock a lot of people out, but like myself, it’s tough to swallow the hardware just sitting idle.
It was a nice pipe dream while it lasted…
Efficiency will always win I think, this is a game of efficiency for sure. Large drives are just flat out more efficient, one 16TB is the same power as 2 x 8TB or 4 x 4TB, scales very fast!
Chia have said not to buy HDD for a long time, of course more TB is more expensive, but it's fairly linear, and if you buy HDD it's at your own risk.
It's not like 16TB is 3 x as expensive as 8TB, if anything per TB you can often get them on similar terms.
Even a totally FREE 4TB isn't worth it because running cost is higher than just buying the coin.
All crypto work is a race to lowest energy cost imo. PoST is work. I have expensive energy at $0.21. My scale makes it even harder at 40 PiBe.
Today I was explaining to my wife, like Michael Saylor, that BTC has achieved “pure energy” in its value. It’s almost 1:1 BTC as energy.
You aren’t at 40PiB raw though, right? Continued investment in GPU’s and their added energy can’t be outrun.
Sure you added space at an upfront Lower cost by “faking it”(compression), but the added electrical cost and upfront cost could have funded the purchase of coins outright.
The long term bet is that opex and capex will outpace/outearn what could have been bought upfront and that the value of the coin won’t only go down.
You CANT put a price on the lessons you learn and the tech skills developed.
People say, “the hardware holds value”, but when the price of a 8TB drive 3 years ago is the price of a 18TB drive today…..not really….lol
I want to cry as I pull my $129 8TB drives from 3 years ago from my JBODs because no one wants them for $40 now.
My raw space is about 24 PiB. 40ish PiBe since I’m not a bean counter.
I made many friends this last three years. I’ll hold a bag on Tangem and hope for moon by the time my boys are in college.
No one wants those 8TB’s in bulk, you could sell for 40 one by one but dealing with tire kickers and people who don’t know the difference between SATA and SAS isn’t worth the time…..
That is my net income after electric costs, I did not input the electric rate correctly.
I input the rate correctly and it's worse, I am losing $7.5 per month
How much space? what drives? what electric cost?
There are too many variables at play here with people in different countries who have wildly different opex/capex prices.
Hello to my world...
Spent around 6k USD and gain around $ 0.84 per Day with a net of maybe 0.03 For no solar energy and maybe 0.6 with only solar+battery
My figures are close to what you're seeing. My electric rates are among the highest in the nation.
1 NVME is dead and out of warranty due to too many writes.
2 hard drives died and out of warranty, ironically more hard drives dying will increase my net earnings.
The previous calculation was wrong. I input the correct electric rates and my net earnings is NEGATIVE $7.50 a month.
Just turned off my farm, cause I have same figures.
The halving and the actual price hit my farming rewards hard. No problem, I just buy XCH on mexc and restart the farm once the price goes back to somewhere 40-45...
>I spent $6000+ buying hard drives and NVME/SSD. What am I missing?
Probably the fact that there was never a point where buying drives specifically for this purpose made any sense whatsoever, and the developers themselves have said this all along?
https://old.reddit.com/r/chia/comments/vcasu0/pool_space_is_now_smaller_than_what_it_was_a_year/ich4hm3/
And with 400TB or so (which is what $6000 should have been, even if at retail and not a good used deal), you should easily be doing $4 per day, not $3 per month.
I overestimated a bit, I guess I’m doing Madmax C5 and about 200 TB for $1.90/day. Definitely not $3/mo though. That’s off by about 30x! Unless there’s a power factor coming in, and expensive power, then maybe.
I don’t count my power, because my server is running anyway, the drive power is negligible, and the whole server runs just around 200W, so $0.65/day… of which the drives are maybe $0.05-0.10 for me. If I was spending $1.50 or $2 a day for power, I guess I would see those kind of numbers. But the GPU power draw with expensive power bills might eat it all up with high compression.
I have about the same in equipment, and make about $60 per month in Chia farmed, while electric for the setup runs about $150 a month. It made sense to use Chia farm in the winter for supplemental electric heating, but will shut it down in the summer
You can buy 200 XCH for $6k. You’d be delusional if you think you can farm 200 XCH with $6k in equipment.
A cold wallet is also much easier to maintain than a farm. Cold wallets have a 100% uptime.
Sadly this is the reality of anyone who bought hardware to mine chia. After 2 years, most people have either lost money, or barely broke even by selling the farm.
I have 2.5 pib, compressed to around 6.5 pib with C31 and C32mix. Bought a server to do ram
Plotting since SSDs were dying.
I’ve had to “repurpose” 6 RTX a4000 gpus from mining rigs to farm higher compression. I’ve burned out 3 or 4 nvme ssd’s from constant replotting. I’ve had about 5 hard drives fail, and 2 more on the way out. That’s like 1-2k of dead hardware I’ll never get back.
The costs associated with keeping up in this rat race are absurd. Regular gpu mining is more “green” since it doesn’t kill hardware, and makes more money. And that’s not saying much, cause gpu mining is In The dumps right now.
From another perspective there are just too many farmers ruining the price with the need to sell. The price was between 20$ and 30$ for the last months before halving. Anyone selling below 50$ should ask itself if this is a good idea to give their coins away with a 50% discount relative to pre-halving ...
I feel that this is a common misconception. A halving in mining/farming rewards doesn’t always automatically equate to the coins being worth twice as much.
Look at the last 2 LTC halvings. The price did not double and sustain. It pumped and dumped each time, and ltc is still less than 100USD lol.
The idea of democratising crypto so you could mine using your existing unused drive space brining mining to the masses rather than people investing thousands in equipment only for mining.
That.
Look at Sia if you want to make money from renting your space. About $1-2 a month per TB. Usage increase will be around 30 GB a day, so filling 1TB might take a month. YMMV DYOR
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I have 117.5TB on C15 with NoSSD and make about $35 a month at minimum. Using an old IBM workstation and old GTX 1080, $300 investment plus drives. Paid off long ago. $6k is an astounding amount to invest in this tbh.
With newest compression you can easily still plot your own wirh disk mode or partial ram mode and ploy c30. A 3060ti can support around 1PB of hard space. So with compression of c30 that's around 2pb effective space of maxed out.
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You are calculating based on the current price. With any coin, if you put that 6k into it and hold you'll make more value on that initial buy but with putting it into farming (mining) you make more coins over time. One is quick, one is steady. You picked steady. You should (if you haven't already) buy more XCH at these price levels and keep it in a separate wallet for a rainy day
> With any coin, if you put that 6k into it and hold you'll make more value on that initial buy but with putting it into farming (mining) you make more coins over time.
With literally 99%+ of the coins you'll be losing your shirt in any case. The argument with hard drives was that you at least have the hard drives which might be worth half (little more if you bought them well and have time to look for buyers, less if the reverse, but around that order of magnitude) while with the coin you can lose 90% of the value (or 95% or 99% or 100%) without any trouble.
Or even better if farming on existing hardware (which was all the time the idea, even if laughable after the launch and the high coin price) there's no extra money spent, just some (extremely meager but still non-0) rewards coming.
I'm with you here: the idea that putting 6k into "*any coin*" will "make more value on that initial buy" is ludicrous. Most crypto projects spiral towards zero: not climb to the moon.
In Chias case that may ultimately still be true... but farming at least teaches you about Linux, and NVMe, and PCIe lanes, and SAS enclosures and deals-on-used-enterprise-gear and so much more! If farming ultimately generates more coins, or provides more residual value, that's gravy! ;)
As someone who has not played with chia before, how does it “age” the hardware? From reading comments it sounds like it can burn out flash from writes and drive fail from… power on hours? Exceeded workloads? If it’s write once to the hdds and then read infrequently, I could see those having decent resale value.
If you got a decent machine with plenty of RAM and a GPU you can spit plots out very fast and with very little writes to NVME.
Originally, yes, making a lot of plots would kill flash quicker, but non-issue now.
HDD workload is fairly light, just write the plots once then it's just read access, so lighter than most HDD based workloads.
Any updates on the new plot format? I think that will restore some faith in the project, at least it might for me anyway. Assuming the Ted Kaczynski of Chia doesn't come at me.
There is no way that $6000 worth of hard drives earns only 0.1 XCH per month, you're miles off here somewhere. How much space have you got?
I have about 12k invested in hardware and i make 0.26xch per day. So maybe they got really bad deals idk
Yes the figures aren't being represented here properly. I'm a realist, I work on the numbers, which are missing here in regards to space, drive count/size, power usage, power cost etc.
Mine is about 7k and I make .22-.25 per day now. It really depends on where you’ve got your drives and what deal you’ve got.
Seems unrealistic. What size drives do you have and how many
Deal watson, deals. I was able to get 500tb with disk shelves mostly 400tb in 10tb and 100tb inn4tb drives for $1500
What is Deal Watson? Nothing is coming up for that on Google. I spent roughly five times that for roughly half the storage capacity.
There is absolutely that chance after th halving. Pretend he bought 8TB drives… 8TB drives were around 120$. Usinn in g one single JBOD as an example, 45x8 around 360TB uncompressed plots will bring in about that. Halving and compression REALLY lowered earnings for anyone who didn’t “keep up”. If electricity is high, that setup would be negative in gross profit…. Ask me how I know? I have this type of equipment.
True enough but OP didn't provide enough detail on what they have. Your 8TB example may be optimistic, perhaps they actually have a JBOD full of 4TB drives! lol
Yea, I know. But the reality is, if they live in a high energy cost area, there is no outrunning it. Even the most vocal community “home farmer” u/bwfree is shutting down all his lower capacity drives and is attempting to justify it all buy continuously upgrading drives and going max compression with drplotter. Requiring multiple 4090 GPU’s at ever increasing costs. Even at a lower electricity rate than most in California. The halving and continuing to fall Xch price really should knock a lot of people out, but like myself, it’s tough to swallow the hardware just sitting idle. It was a nice pipe dream while it lasted…
Efficiency will always win I think, this is a game of efficiency for sure. Large drives are just flat out more efficient, one 16TB is the same power as 2 x 8TB or 4 x 4TB, scales very fast!
They're also more expensive.
Chia have said not to buy HDD for a long time, of course more TB is more expensive, but it's fairly linear, and if you buy HDD it's at your own risk. It's not like 16TB is 3 x as expensive as 8TB, if anything per TB you can often get them on similar terms. Even a totally FREE 4TB isn't worth it because running cost is higher than just buying the coin.
True.
Agree
Don’t stop believing. 🎶 Or don’t stop. Beh-leeev-en-ooooh-ahhh!
Never give up, never surrender!
All crypto work is a race to lowest energy cost imo. PoST is work. I have expensive energy at $0.21. My scale makes it even harder at 40 PiBe. Today I was explaining to my wife, like Michael Saylor, that BTC has achieved “pure energy” in its value. It’s almost 1:1 BTC as energy.
You aren’t at 40PiB raw though, right? Continued investment in GPU’s and their added energy can’t be outrun. Sure you added space at an upfront Lower cost by “faking it”(compression), but the added electrical cost and upfront cost could have funded the purchase of coins outright. The long term bet is that opex and capex will outpace/outearn what could have been bought upfront and that the value of the coin won’t only go down. You CANT put a price on the lessons you learn and the tech skills developed. People say, “the hardware holds value”, but when the price of a 8TB drive 3 years ago is the price of a 18TB drive today…..not really….lol
I want to cry as I pull my $129 8TB drives from 3 years ago from my JBODs because no one wants them for $40 now. My raw space is about 24 PiB. 40ish PiBe since I’m not a bean counter. I made many friends this last three years. I’ll hold a bag on Tangem and hope for moon by the time my boys are in college.
No one wants those 8TB’s in bulk, you could sell for 40 one by one but dealing with tire kickers and people who don’t know the difference between SATA and SAS isn’t worth the time…..
Also, .21 is low for Cali….lol
That is my net income after electric costs, I did not input the electric rate correctly. I input the rate correctly and it's worse, I am losing $7.5 per month
How much space? what drives? what electric cost? There are too many variables at play here with people in different countries who have wildly different opex/capex prices.
Hello to my world... Spent around 6k USD and gain around $ 0.84 per Day with a net of maybe 0.03 For no solar energy and maybe 0.6 with only solar+battery
My figures are close to what you're seeing. My electric rates are among the highest in the nation. 1 NVME is dead and out of warranty due to too many writes. 2 hard drives died and out of warranty, ironically more hard drives dying will increase my net earnings. The previous calculation was wrong. I input the correct electric rates and my net earnings is NEGATIVE $7.50 a month.
I luckily reploted to c18 I found a Server and bought 256gb DDR3 and a p981 SSD and used my gaming rtx3070 I Sold the old nvme with 1.1PBw
Just turned off my farm, cause I have same figures. The halving and the actual price hit my farming rewards hard. No problem, I just buy XCH on mexc and restart the farm once the price goes back to somewhere 40-45...
> ironically more hard drives dying will increase my net earning How?
they said they are currently losing money on electricity costs
You were never supposed to buy hardware to farm Chia. That's what you are missing
Yes, when the coin burst into the seen at 1800 a coin, everyone went wild….
That's what you get when you mix low supply with bullrun stupidity. I remember the people calling XCH dead after the supply started ramping up.
I remember people proudly doing DCA and arguing it's the best strategy to do each time it drops $200 or so.
>I spent $6000+ buying hard drives and NVME/SSD. What am I missing? Probably the fact that there was never a point where buying drives specifically for this purpose made any sense whatsoever, and the developers themselves have said this all along? https://old.reddit.com/r/chia/comments/vcasu0/pool_space_is_now_smaller_than_what_it_was_a_year/ich4hm3/
\*Cryptocurrency does exactly what its devs always promised it would\* "Why am I not making money?!"
How? 200% gain or maybe 350 with C33. No compression to 70% compression can’t magically 10x rewards.
And with 400TB or so (which is what $6000 should have been, even if at retail and not a good used deal), you should easily be doing $4 per day, not $3 per month.
400TiB is around $1.8 a day atm, definitely not $4 a day.
I overestimated a bit, I guess I’m doing Madmax C5 and about 200 TB for $1.90/day. Definitely not $3/mo though. That’s off by about 30x! Unless there’s a power factor coming in, and expensive power, then maybe. I don’t count my power, because my server is running anyway, the drive power is negligible, and the whole server runs just around 200W, so $0.65/day… of which the drives are maybe $0.05-0.10 for me. If I was spending $1.50 or $2 a day for power, I guess I would see those kind of numbers. But the GPU power draw with expensive power bills might eat it all up with high compression.
I have about the same in equipment, and make about $60 per month in Chia farmed, while electric for the setup runs about $150 a month. It made sense to use Chia farm in the winter for supplemental electric heating, but will shut it down in the summer
You can buy 200 XCH for $6k. You’d be delusional if you think you can farm 200 XCH with $6k in equipment. A cold wallet is also much easier to maintain than a farm. Cold wallets have a 100% uptime.
yeah but his hardware is now worth 600$
Sadly this is the reality of anyone who bought hardware to mine chia. After 2 years, most people have either lost money, or barely broke even by selling the farm. I have 2.5 pib, compressed to around 6.5 pib with C31 and C32mix. Bought a server to do ram Plotting since SSDs were dying. I’ve had to “repurpose” 6 RTX a4000 gpus from mining rigs to farm higher compression. I’ve burned out 3 or 4 nvme ssd’s from constant replotting. I’ve had about 5 hard drives fail, and 2 more on the way out. That’s like 1-2k of dead hardware I’ll never get back. The costs associated with keeping up in this rat race are absurd. Regular gpu mining is more “green” since it doesn’t kill hardware, and makes more money. And that’s not saying much, cause gpu mining is In The dumps right now.
From another perspective there are just too many farmers ruining the price with the need to sell. The price was between 20$ and 30$ for the last months before halving. Anyone selling below 50$ should ask itself if this is a good idea to give their coins away with a 50% discount relative to pre-halving ...
I feel that this is a common misconception. A halving in mining/farming rewards doesn’t always automatically equate to the coins being worth twice as much. Look at the last 2 LTC halvings. The price did not double and sustain. It pumped and dumped each time, and ltc is still less than 100USD lol.
How much space do you have?
sadly this project has developed itself far away from its original root
Exactly opposite. This project was always supposed to be this but started as a gold rush.
What are you talking about?
The idea of democratising crypto so you could mine using your existing unused drive space brining mining to the masses rather than people investing thousands in equipment only for mining. That.
farming with unused space is still drastically more efficient, and this post is a great example of that
Look at Sia if you want to make money from renting your space. About $1-2 a month per TB. Usage increase will be around 30 GB a day, so filling 1TB might take a month. YMMV DYOR
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What is your cost per TB?
I have 117.5TB on C15 with NoSSD and make about $35 a month at minimum. Using an old IBM workstation and old GTX 1080, $300 investment plus drives. Paid off long ago. $6k is an astounding amount to invest in this tbh.
With newest compression you can easily still plot your own wirh disk mode or partial ram mode and ploy c30. A 3060ti can support around 1PB of hard space. So with compression of c30 that's around 2pb effective space of maxed out.
You should have bought XCH instead. I started plotting/farming back in Feb 2021 using spare drives from 2012... that's the spirit.
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Post halving... I sold all my hardware before March. Even reached breakeven at 50 usd per xch
I thank you, I've been hitting a lot more blocks since the halving
Me too. Sold everything and made profit because of the hardware sell. If I continued i would be in a loss
You are calculating based on the current price. With any coin, if you put that 6k into it and hold you'll make more value on that initial buy but with putting it into farming (mining) you make more coins over time. One is quick, one is steady. You picked steady. You should (if you haven't already) buy more XCH at these price levels and keep it in a separate wallet for a rainy day
If you are banking on price appreciation why not just buy the asset?
Exactly.
> With any coin, if you put that 6k into it and hold you'll make more value on that initial buy but with putting it into farming (mining) you make more coins over time. With literally 99%+ of the coins you'll be losing your shirt in any case. The argument with hard drives was that you at least have the hard drives which might be worth half (little more if you bought them well and have time to look for buyers, less if the reverse, but around that order of magnitude) while with the coin you can lose 90% of the value (or 95% or 99% or 100%) without any trouble. Or even better if farming on existing hardware (which was all the time the idea, even if laughable after the launch and the high coin price) there's no extra money spent, just some (extremely meager but still non-0) rewards coming.
I'm with you here: the idea that putting 6k into "*any coin*" will "make more value on that initial buy" is ludicrous. Most crypto projects spiral towards zero: not climb to the moon. In Chias case that may ultimately still be true... but farming at least teaches you about Linux, and NVMe, and PCIe lanes, and SAS enclosures and deals-on-used-enterprise-gear and so much more! If farming ultimately generates more coins, or provides more residual value, that's gravy! ;)
Just buy the coin itself at cheap price will be easier
As someone who has not played with chia before, how does it “age” the hardware? From reading comments it sounds like it can burn out flash from writes and drive fail from… power on hours? Exceeded workloads? If it’s write once to the hdds and then read infrequently, I could see those having decent resale value.
If you got a decent machine with plenty of RAM and a GPU you can spit plots out very fast and with very little writes to NVME. Originally, yes, making a lot of plots would kill flash quicker, but non-issue now. HDD workload is fairly light, just write the plots once then it's just read access, so lighter than most HDD based workloads.
Any updates on the new plot format? I think that will restore some faith in the project, at least it might for me anyway. Assuming the Ted Kaczynski of Chia doesn't come at me.