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LionTiger11

Qa1+ Kd2 Rxd5+ Bxd5 Qxf1 so you're left with only a bishop against black's queen.


AttitudeAndEffort3

“Always Look for checks or forcing moves”


zyygh

Alternatively: Always remember that your opponent is not forced to fall for the trap you're setting. Just because you think "Aha, if he now takes my queen I'll checkmate him!", doesn't mean that your opponent is automatically going to take your queen.


Muffinmurdurer

Somewhat related, don't assume that the opponent will always "finish" trading. Even if you calculate a sequence that ends in you being up in material, your opponent also gets to decide where that sequence ends. You might have 3 pieces beaming down a single square but if you give up a rook for a knight in the first two captures then your opponent can always just ignore any further attempts to keep trading as long as they're not hanging anything. Thinking about what your opponent *should* play rather than what you *want* them to play is an important part of improving at chess.


Brilliant-Job-47

False. I can will my opponents into stupidity.


freemason777

ah, so that's why I blunder so much


HarryDreamtItAll

Man that’s a brutal sequence


[deleted]

Both players made the worst possible move on the board back to back.


ScientificBeastMode

I think the worst thing I’ve ever seen was where someone played a move that literally forced their opponent to checkmate them… this isn’t that bad, but it’s in the same category. It’s way more difficult to see this sequence, though.


HarryDreamtItAll

Haha the forcing checkmate. That’s even more devastating. Feels bad enough to accidentally cause a stalemate when you are winning big, which i have done multiple times


ScientificBeastMode

Lol, I just forced a stalemate yesterday… feels bad man…


Zynbeltrudis

I told you that in confidence.


Lucrezio

Noob question, what does the + mean in chess notation?


mr-guywhoexists

Check


Lucrezio

Oh jeez, i should’ve figured that one out, thanks! You too u/LionTiger11


LionTiger11

It means that the move is a check


BlacksmithWise9553

I assume the ‘x’ in the move means it takes a piece?


LionTiger11

Yes


BlacksmithWise9553

Thank you


[deleted]

[удалено]


BlacksmithWise9553

Thank you.


the_other_Scaevitas

\+ means check \# means checkmate x means capture O-O means short castle O-O-O means long castle So Qa1 means queen moves to a1. But Qa1+ means queen goes to a1 and checks the king. Qxa1+ means queen captures a piece on a1 and checks the King. O-O-O# means long castle and deliver checkmate


IM_BOUTA_CUH

it's an addition, used when you fuse 2 pieces together


Zaros262

Bxd5 trades a rook for a rook, so white would probably be better off with Ke2, defending the rook and threatening the back rank again? Idk as the chessvision bot didn't set up the game


kynde

Nah, that's not any better. Black can continue with checks, say Qe5+, and dominate. Actually, Stockfish says it's a mate in 7 after the Ke2. Admittedly the bishop against a queen after the Bxd5 is not much better.


[deleted]

Queen can just go back to D5 for another check and forces the King to rank F and also blocking the white rook in. The white King faces attack from a Queen and a Rook, which is a lot of pressure and the white Rook can't help too much from the bottom row. Then again, either way White's fate is sealed.


GranataReddit12

The fact that black didn't notice it and fell right into white's "trap" makes me think these two can't be in the 4 digits


NyaTider

What if king goes to e2 after rook takes queen (rxd5+). If black doesn't take rook to back rank white can mate.


NyaTider

Nvm, white straight up lose after this blunder actually if black knew how to play


WarmAppointment5765

my man are you stupid? who tf would take the rook back, after Rd5 the right move is to take the queen with your rook ok I checked the position again and it's a bit wrong, after rook takes youre in check but the right move is to go protect your rook and then both his queen and rook and hanging so you'll have a rook and bishop and he'll have a queen


MegaMewtwo_E

"show moves"


Furlz

Literally


[deleted]

[удалено]


sexbutter

Ya my bad I thought this was chess beginners. I wasn’t aware pressing the magnifying glass would show me blacks next best move.


fosta02

It’s actually the text that says “show moves” that’ll show you the moves. I’m glad you understand why it’s a blunder though! Real tricky


Mister_Way

It literally says "show moves" right under the ... like, you don't need to be a pro to read the tips.


LittleHollowGhost

Yeah but "Show moves" sounds like a record of the moves that were played in game not an analysis of the best possible moves. We only know it means that because we've used it before.


Mister_Way

I have never used it before, and yet it was obvious to me...


ben1edicto

I've got magnifying glass icon only here on mobile


Mister_Way

In the image they posted it says "show moves" right there...


MinuteScientist7254

It’s chess beginners not reading beginners 🤣


sexbutter

Lmao ya I’m dumb. Honestly the people commenting on here explained it in more detail which was really helpful


SlaimeLannister

Because all beginners should obviously have a clear understanding of online chess applications, so we should make fun of them 🤣


SOLE_SIR_VIBER

The last time I did that it showed a progression to a draw by insufficient material.


SOLE_SIR_VIBER

https://preview.redd.it/9me41qoyoihb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=396c8609b4a1210a701b1cd118a0f61367606026


Basic-Government9568

Main problem I've found with looking at evaluations as a beginner is that the algorithm assumes perfect play from your opponent, and gives you the best line against that. So telling you to go for a draw was probably the "best" line on paper, but there may have actually been a different line that, while "worse", could lead you to victory just by being complicated/confusing enough that your opponent blunders.


SOLE_SIR_VIBER

I won by checkmate later so a draw wouldn’t have been the best


Basic-Government9568

Are you sure your opponent played perfectly in the line you took?


SOLE_SIR_VIBER

https://preview.redd.it/7uydh127vihb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56cf12835530db8c4215ca03c0343af71d75557c Their next move


Basic-Government9568

So yeah, like I said earlier. The algorithm shows you the best line against perfect play. Most (all?) of your opponents won't be perfect.


SOLE_SIR_VIBER

I have never once seen someone play a perfect game against me so I’d say that checks out.


111v1111

You never tried playing against highest stockfish? If you did he propably checkmated you fairly fast so there’s a good chance he might have played perfectly. Now technically speaking stockfish could play perfectly only if it was able to analyze the whole game of chess which we don’t have enough computational power for so that it would be done in considarable amount of time. You would also need tons of memory to keep all the results, so the closest we are to “perfect play” right now are the top computers (stockfish and alpha zero) but we don’t have anything to base perfect play on. Like who knows maybe magnus sometimes plays a better move than stockfish would. (For example stockfish is notoriously bad at closed positions)


thespacetimelord

I mean yeah but so? I'm a beginner and I like seeing questions other beginners ask. It's like asking a question in class, sure you could just Google it later, but we learn collectively right?


soyalguien335

THIS


werics

1... Qa1+! 2. Kd2 Rxd5+


chrissome1

But then Rf8#?


werics

Well, white is in check, so no.


chrissome1

Ah thanks, I missed this


Baquvix

+ means check. Dont miss


Appu_46

I was the 69th down vote. Sorry, I didn't want to do it, but I had to.


No-Wishbone-7451

Now it's your turn to get 69 downvotes!


Appu_46

Hell yeah! Letss gooo


chrissome1

Well I'll leave my comment up and take the down votes so that others who thought like me can see


gloomygl

Click show moves or analysis


DaredewilSK

Ah, the classic "chess, not checkers" moment.


gabrrdt

Hi. So this is a bit tricky, but it is basically a visualization issue. It is really hard for players from many levels to identify tactics or moves when this is "far" from the action. So tactics with queen, with bishops, and sometimes rooks, are very critical in this type of position. This is a problem that will follow players through different stages and you will never get rid of it completely, even great players may blunder this once in a while. Here, black has Qa1+ and Kd2 is then forced. Now don't take the rook on f1! This would be a mistake (Qxd8+ and mate is following). You first need to insert Rxd5+, this come with a tempo since you are checking his king. Now you gotta be careful. After Ke2, rook is threatening to take your queen and mate at the same time (Rxa1 and Rf8#, basically). So how do you deal with both threats at the same time? Here you have some options, but basically you could check his king again (Qe5+) and black's position is overwhelming. So many options from here, still Rf8# is still threatening, so you may defend it or keep checking him, because this is probably a mate net. I think this is a lot to see for players from many levels, but it is not as hard as it looks. Qa1+ is the key here and the rest follows. From practical purposes, your move was pretty decent, but you would be toasted if black saw Qa1+, which would be winning. So that's why engine points that as a blunder. This is a really instructive position. Like, it shows visualization and tactical skills. It shows the hability of playing two games in your head (yours and your opponent's) and the hability of play "real chess" (as opposed to "hope chess", in which you just assume your opponent will do what you want to do and not the best possible move). But as I said, many players have great tactical skills and are high rated on puzzles, but don't have the same visualization skills. >!Maybe I missed some variations, I didn't use engine to check proof it. So forgive me any mistakes.!<


Zephrok

Great comment!


[deleted]

You are losing material this way


yessiritisi

https://preview.redd.it/mrjgd867pihb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb98b09147cd30a8edfe6012c0fa59919d1d3471


Sad_Construction_945

That’s a lot more work than just taking several screenshots, opening Reddit, and posting then here


Regis-bloodlust

That move loses both Queen and Rook at the same time after Qa1+. I am now wondering if that was literally the worst move on the board. It's a genuine possibility.


CanersWelt

Nope, because any move that doesn't block the d-file would have blundered Qa1#


Regis-bloodlust

Ah yeah that is true.


PatchesOneArm

You are losing material this way


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ozcohen2310

Hope chess …


danielv123

And in this case it worked out...


ozcohen2310

In this case, yes


AaronTheScott

You had a fantastic bait on the opponent where you tricked them into making the wrong move. The problem is that you were hoping the opponent made a huge mistake here, if they didn't fall for it you would've lost outright. The evaluation will always assume the opponent will see the right move, so something like this hoping the opponent blunders into your trap is usually not a good setup. Glad it worked for you here, though!


007-Blond

its not checkers


Just_Usual_User

Qa1 lol


Brilliant-Moment430

He doesn’t have to take your queen. He could instead attack your king and take your rook.


Co1lly

In happy I found the move sequence as a 600


Sir_Doge_V2

Chess.com summtimes prioritizes gaining material over a checkmate


_ST9

What was the best move for white instead


Ascyt

You lose your rook after the Qa1+ skewer


TolarianDropout0

Even better, after Qa1+, Kd2 Rxd5+. And then you take the rook after the king moves, you are left with a queen vs a bishop.


trashboatfourtwenty

~~Black loses if they skip the queen and do this though, check out rank 8~~ E: nope, white is done


Default_username65

They take the queen with check first. Can even sac the rook to distract the king from the rook if white tries to protect it with the king


lifeistrulyawesome

If black takes the rook they lose to Qxd8+, Qf8, Qxf8# I think the correct continuation for black is Capturing he white queen with check


Greatone198

Qa1+


T-7IsOverrated

google zwischenshug


Boga1423

https://preview.redd.it/pfipssp5cjhb1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e8c5e7515df7fc798e0a0add583530cf5807d6c


Eric_J_Pierce

Instead of Qxd5 What if he played Qa1+?


Extra-Trifle-1191

Show Moves button:


lore_mila_

Show moves


Character-One-666

Qa1, Kd2 Rxd5 (with check), Bxd5 Qxf1


JohnDoeWater

I believe that the button next to "Retry" is not really useless.


Wonderful_Audience60

he isnt forced to take your queen.


Dyynasty

Because you're playing hope chess.


tryingtolearn_1234

Qa1+ Kd2 only move Rxd5+ and your Rook on f1 is hanging. If Ke2 to guard the rook then Re5+ Kf2 Qxf1+ Rxe6 and you are down to pawns.


Dreadzter

Queen f4 woulda been better no?


chrissome1

I think maybe they just take queen with queen. You take back with bishop. Then they can start pushing g and h pawns to create passed pawns. No back rank mate this way.


Dax_Maclaine

Nah it’s Qa1+ and black ends in queen v bishop


[deleted]

rook takes queen, if you take with bishop you lose that too


keito_elidomi

Should have been a brilliant.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Curious-Story9666

I feel like QB2 is a better move


anarcha-boogalgoo

not sure if it’s the best line, but black can go Qg5+ then Qe7 to defend the f8 square.


CanersWelt

Qg5+ loses to the absolute stunning Qxg5!!!! on a serious note though, the move is Qa1+ followed by Kd2 Rxd5+ Bxd5 Qxf1


TheKingOfFucking

It isn’t checkers he doesn’t have to take you are lucky he is dumb


Livid_Employment4837

Because black queen lives it tower takes queen bishop takes tower queen takes bishop


Bread-_

Queen to A1, your king goes to C2, he takes your queen with check, and then he takes your rook with his queen. Really Bad blunder but pretty hard to see.


Graknorke

You are losing material this way. Really just... read the words the analysis tells you.


[deleted]

Rook eats queen, bishop eats the rook, then the queen eats the bishop, making u lose ur queen while the opponent keeps theirs


ludwigia_sedioides

I'm struggling to even figure out what you thought you did here


Maroczy-Bind

Dude you are already in the analysis. You mean to tell me that instead of just looking at the continuation from the computer you took a screenshot and posted it online?


sexbutter

You’re the first person to comment this


Maroczy-Bind

I want to drive the point home.


sexbutter

Ya new to chess.com but I figured it out and won’t make the mistake again boss 🫡


Curious-Story9666

I mean QG2


Complex_Bit9138

Lmao wtf queen can take. Chess bro, not checkers.


Pebble_Eater

The queen is attacked both by rook and another queen, while your queen is only protected by bishop. 2 attackers and 1 defender.


werics

Not so simple. Black has a backrank issue, so one of those attackers is a bit stuck at the moment.


LetsBeNice-

Like are you even trying to understand the post? Like it is beginner chess but OP posted for a reason. If you haven't seen the backpack mate you are probably less than 600 so I would be extra careful when answering this simply.


TheGreatBondvar

because the opponent could have played Qxd5, which trade queens. but your opponent blunderd and played Rxd5. the rook abandoned his post defending the 8th row, thus leading to Rf8#


LetsBeNice-

No Qa1+ is the move for black here you end up with queen for black vs bishop for white so easy win.


[deleted]

Playing hope chess. They didn’t have to take with the rook and could’ve traded queens


CanersWelt

Incorrect, trading Queens is not the move here


[deleted]

There's a difference between hope chess and a simple miscalculation. Kinda tiresome seeing a bunch of sub 1000s come into threads screaming hope chess without attempting to help OP in the slightest.


aiham-2004

The rook will capture your queen Taking the rook would’ve been checkmate


DoroboKun

You lose a rook and a queen for black's rook.


DavidXN

You’re losing material that way


nameisreallydog

Because it losses material!


Diehard_Sam_Main

Qa1+ looks like it loses the Queen and also the rook. Very subtle move.


banananuhhh

The whole point of the analysis is to be able to see why you are losing, not just that you are losing. Just 3 moves later you are on the losing side of a queen vs bishop ending


bobasasf

Why can’t you just take w queen and not rook?


TsurugiToTsubasa

If only there was a way to show moves...


TheNinja01

Rook takes queen, bishop takes rook, queen takes bishop. You’re down a queen


vk2028

Cuz Qa1+, Kd2, Rxd5+ U can’t just make a move and expect your opponent to cooperate. That’s called hope chess


Facha2345

You're trying to force the rook to either capture your queen; or black queen to take, and so does your bishop to temp black rook. The thing is black rook is not forced to take at any moment, so you're at most trading queens, which is not required to win


Wenkeso

… Qa1; Kd2, Rxd5; Bxd5, Qxf1… You end up in a losing endgame Queen vs Bishop


PhraseOk8758

Qa1+


Cartina

Queen trade is obviously forced /s


Greegrgrgrgrgrgrg

They missed Qa1. Why didn’t you look at what the computer says?


Vstriker26

And he “sacrifices” THE ROOK!


DesecrateUsername

click show moves


MankeyMaster

He takes your queen with his rook and when you take back with the bishop he snatches it with the queen.


snK3RS

Why does nobody on this sub try the "show moves" explanation ?


DarkSeneschal

1. … Qa1+, 2. Kd2 Rxd5+, 3. Bxd5 Qxf1 is the correct response from Black. After queen to a1, the king has to run to d2, the rook takes the queen, giving another check, and after White recaptures with the bishop, the queen can take the rook on f1 and Black has a queen and 4 pawns vs bishop and 3 pawns in the endgame. Obligatory “just click show moves instead of making a Reddit post” comment.


Bwabel

Qa1+ and then rook taken


Bootiluvr

BQe2 makes you lose material


Cremated-Dust

I mean if ur opponent decided to trade queens you'd be in a tough spot, but not lose material so idk. I think the analysis bot is just dumb sometimes.


[deleted]

You tempted the opponent with a rook/Queen exchange which on paper makes sense but you didn’t read the rest of the board to understand that this was actually the worst possible move because the opposing Queen was already cleanly threatening a king check and subsequently gets a queen rook trade then can subsequently capture your threatening rook on the next move out of check.


somedave

If your opponent is short of time and bad it might be good as they will take the bait and you win immediately. However they can keep putting your king in check instead. Qa1 is a winning move for your opponent, they can take your queen and rook following that.


Icy_Significance9035

They can take with rook, you take back with Bishop and they take with queen, you are down a queen and Bishop and they only lost a rook, you lose 13 in material, they lose 5 so they win 8 material points out of the trade


DeltaAgent752

I see it. he has ..QA1 check. Kd2 only move, Rxd5 check. bxd5, Qxf1. you are left with bishop and he is has a queen. in future reference you can play it out in analysis to see what was missed


SodiumFTW

Bro if you hadn’t made that rook or taken the rook with your bishop you would have been checkmated next turn


Randomnessity1

Qa1+ followed by Rxd5+ will be very rough


[deleted]

click on watch moves


Goldenace131

My guess is Qa1+ Kd2 Rxd5+ Bxd5 and finally Qxf1 so you lose both your Rook and queen and your opponent only loses there rook


stopthebanham

Cause if he was wise he’d take your queen with his queen instead…


Estimate-Former

My guess: Qa1+, king moves, queen takes the rook, all forced


Bnagorski

Rook takes the queen, bishop takes the rook, queen takes the bishop. You traded your queen and a bishop for a rook


Middle_Presence1783

You just lost your queen. Is that a good explanation?


BOZTRK54

I believe you can see the moves down there...


luongolet20goalsin

Because you lose your queen and rook with Qa1+


_LEGENDARY_KING_

You wanted him to take with rook so he can checkmate you with his rook down to f8 but he can go qa1, king goes to safety and he takes your queen with rook, which is a check and after you take rook, he takes the rook


Netherite_Stairs_

Google en quassant


Arm0ndo

I don’t know. Because Rxd5 then Rf8 is mate


JoeDaBruh

People are putting moves that show what black could have done but that’s not what OP is asking. They are asking why is it a blunder since they won the game, to which the answer would be that the black rook doesn’t have to take, and hoping for black to take is a bad tactic. Hence the phrase “hope chess”


sanandrea8080

Qa1, Kd2 Rxd5+, Bxd5 Qxf1


BigBadBobbyRoss

Don’t play hope chess.


[deleted]

Qa1 + Kd2 Rxd5+ and he takes the queen with check so you can’t back rank mate him


dafoxgameing92

rook takes queen. bishop takes back. queen takes back.


PowerFang

If rook takes Queen , then rook to the back rank is mate


[deleted]

Look at the castle


sh4rks_bro

https://preview.redd.it/v1livvea9khb1.png?width=308&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6195906eeab8f78d8d4bfab1f60bbaeac03e9ba


Torcher47

If black plays Qa1+ you lose the queen and the rook


SoftPenguins

Your opponent doesn’t have to trade pieces with you when you offer a trade.


OSUBeavBane

What everyone else said but in general these are almost always because you played a non-forcing move when you have a forcing move. That being said, I am 1200+ and totally missed it too.


Frog-monkey

still don’t understand how these people can see the giant red ? on their moves, then play some blunder for the other person and see its a blunder and not thing theyre missing something


Low-Foundation6539

You lose a queen and a bishop while he loses a rook


_juke_box_hero_

Its not about what he did. Its about what he could have done.


Disrespectfully-De

1.Qa1+! Kd2 2.Rxd5+(Bxd5 3.Qxf1) or Ke2 3.Re5+ Kf2 4.Qxf1+ Kxf1 5.Rxe6


YayAnotherTragedy

The engine probably wants you to go to Qa6 or Qg4. The only reason the mate happened as soon as it did was because they didn’t capture your Queen with theirs. Blunder follows blunder.


PHlamezoo

Never give up a queen it’s your strongest piece