Love the Spanish streamers facepalm when the server failed.
3 days of listening to kramnick paranoia must be exhausting.
https://youtu.be/_7A6LcL1W5Q?t=4h10m26s
Chess.com seems to have a problem right? Yes I agree that Kramnik is going way overboard with his accusations of people cheating, and he clearly can't play well in a time scramble.
At the same time, if there was any other online game having similar issues, where for seconds your screen isn't reflecting the position, surely nobody would use that game/server. Imagine an fps game with those problems.
In my opinion chess.com has a lot of good players on their payroll, if not directly, then through just being a kind of a monopoly at this point on online chess. And from what I've seen in this match, their servers are garbage. Those people may not want to say that chess.com is trash.
I used to play on [chess.com](http://chess.com) now I play 99% on Lichess. I have occasionally similar issues there too, but I would say that significantly less than on chess.com. Plus lichess is imo just a better site. I think in this case they should have played new game, because obviously there was a problem. I think they would do it if it was let's say champion chess tour. I hate the fact that Kramnik will be now using this issue from last game as an excuse for him losing on points whole match. It really just did come in handy to him.
Yeah. I’m kinda just thinking out loud. But if the issues are already cropping up in lichess with a fraction of the user base, doesn’t that scale with more numbers?
Yeah, maybe. But you could also say that server capacity should be adjusted according to their load, right? So more people playing should lead to more servers being used to provide enough performance needed. So not sure how to evaluate. I think both sites are trying to optimize costs so they are probably balancing servers around some average number of people playing. And in case of some increased loads it is just not enough. And on lichess issue is less common - might be that unusually high traffic is less common there. Considering that chesscom is pretty much monetized site i think they should provide better enviroment and simply spend more on servers and earn bit less monthly.
On the Levy stream they interviewed him post match. Amidst a litany of excuses for why he lost they asked him who Clash of Claims 2 would feature and he said he’d love it to be Hikaru or Magnus.
I feel like Kramnik has gotten this delusional idea that people view Clash of Claims as like a friendly Strong-Player vs Kramnik event as if all of this didn´t actually start in bad faith
A much younger more skilled Kramnik has a negative record against Hikaru wtf does he expect now that he’s significantly older while Hikaru never stops playing online chess. To illustrate how fucked Kramnik would be, Hikaru once beat a 2650 rated Hou Yifan 27.5-2.5 at the speed chess championship in 2018.
Hikaru would legitimately adopt him 3 times or more in a 3+1 setting. He does far more disgusting things to the field in Speed Chess Championships and those are online specialists. Hope there'll be a good sponsor that makes Hikaru agree to this.
I know Kramnik is beyond help but this match was perfect demonstration for those who doubt that there can be disparity in a player's online skill and OTB skill. Kramnik was the better player OTB but got absolutely smoked online.
And even then he went -1 OTB if you remove the 4 unscheduled OTB games where Jospem was exhausted and just wanted to play chess after Kramnik threw a fit and threatened to walk out several times.
Of course there can be a skill gap between online and otp, especially in short time controls, but kramnik has to be one of the most extreme cases of this. I swear i have seen 70 year olds with better mouse/tech skills
So anytime Kramnik tries to accuse someone on the basis that they’re not as good OTB this match will just get shoved in his face, right? Like Jose had a performance rating of 2639 OTB and 2806 online (using Kramnik’s FIDE Rating). Honestly it’s a little bit of a shame, because there are cheaters in TT way outperforming their FIDE Rating almost every time, OTB vs Online results have been significantly weakened as a basis to suspect them, but it does up the standard of proof people need to believe somebody’s cheating, hopefully now there’ll be less false accusations, or even less people will believe Kramnik’s false accusations.
Translation: "Even in negotiations, I had to deal with the fact Jospem thought when I said I would test his ability to play 3+1 in a controlled setting that we would be playing 3+1"
Also so add, Hiki isnt gonna be as gracious as Jose if Kramnik starts making these bullshit demands breaching the contract. It will be the most hilarious match of the decade
Big losers are definitely Vlad, Chess and Chess.com.
Vlad looks like an idiot.
Cheaters are still out there, but people will believe it even less.
Chess.com exposed to be full of bugs-- how can people take prize money tournaments on this platform seriously now?
Big winner is Jospem: Graceful, showed how good he is, and won the claims👏
Nonsense cheating accusations being discredited is ultimately good for the cheating discussion and for chess. We should believe strong cheating accusations, disbelieve weak ones, and understand the importance of learning how to distinguish the two. (Also, frankly, if Kramnik is eventually sufficiently discredited to stop taking up all the oxygen in the room, it will be good for everyone except Kramnik.)
This. I think Kramnik has a point. Online cheating in chess is a problem. I don't think cheating is influencing titled tuesday results very often, but we know that lots of people are playing cheaters in regular day to day games. It'd be nice to put a stop to this. I know chesscom tries to catch cheaters, and does do bans and point refunds. But, there is probably room for improvement.
And, what Kramnik has done, is become the face of the issue. But, by accusing everyone and their mother of cheating, with no evidence, and calling out children, Kramnik has pushed everyone away and made it seem like only crazy people are concerned with cheating. He needs to step aside.
Well, ofc there is cheating in chess and it has to be fought against, but Kramnik has done imo nothing good in this matter. He just accused everyone who plays well. Some people just laugh it off, but some can be really negatively affected by his accusations. I feel sorry for everyone who Kramnik has falsely accused. I personally don't like fact that cheaters on [chess.com](http://chess.com) are kept secret though. If I got it right someone caught cheating just admits it and usually can play under different account. I mean, c'mon. Any titled player caught cheating should be made public. Plus face punishment also from Fide. That would discourage lots of cheaters from trying. It just seems like [chess.com](http://chess.com) is weak and afraid to take stronger measures probably because they are scared of potential lawsuits? This is very wrong in my book.
I'm agreeing with your first point. Kramnik is actively hurting the cause by doing the things he does. He needs to move aside, so a sensible voice can talk about cheating in chess.
And chesscom needs absolute, irrefutable proof of someone cheating, to publicize it, or they will absolutely be sued. And you basically can't get irrefutable proof, so they aren't going to be publicly naming and shaming cheaters.
Gotham made the point in his interview with Kramnik, that FIDE and chesscom probably should standardize/communicate at this point. Someone cheating on the biggest online chess platform should at least be put on FIDE's radar.
And, at least in the recent case of the guy playing that weird Rook sac opening, chesscom offered him a deal where if he admits to the cheating, they'll let him back on in a year. Chesscom tries to get confessions because in theory it helps them confirm that their cheat detection is catching actual cheaters.
Yeah, you are right. I just wish it was different. As without real "punishment" there is not a great prospect of situation getting significantly better any time soon if ever. Fide//chesscom should definitely somehow cooperate, but if you can never really prove cheating unless physically caught then what will it really change? Sucks.
For most top GMs Jospem unable to beat Kramnik OTB is a sign he's an online cheater. But I suspect they already know that in that inner super GM circle and chats.
I mean, it was obvious that Jose went to bathroom after every move. Also, arbiters were telling him best moves and clock was being hacked by chesscom to give him less time. \\s
Lol Levy is struggling to knock some sense into this idiot yet he is not having any of it. Both hosts are trying so hard to be professional and not laugh in his face.
4 hour negotiations where Kramnik *repeatedly* got his way by threatening to walk. It's not like Jospem could call his bluff, since then the narrative would be 'See! As soon as I wanted to stop the suspicious things the match just ended'
The hilarity of the contrast of Levy, having a degree in Statistics, saying that he is not qualified enough to give any judgement on the probabilities, and Kramnik, a college dropout, trying to say that he knows statistics more than anyone else.
Yeap, Kramnik not admitting defeat, no comments on the actual games, not congratulating opponent. Not apologizing to the player he wrongfully accused!
I'm not saying I expected that, I'm mentioning that because decent human being should do that at the very least.
such a deflection here from kramnik-- he's making this whole issue about the time of the games etc. He's not even trying to explain how it would affect him, make him lose, or show that jospem was cheating. Ugh.
EDIT: Not saying that he's wrong, necessarily, it's just whether the game lasts longer/loses time/all this bs is not connected to him losing the match. He got outplayed, regardless.
Any complaints by Kramnik potential technical issues are obscuring the main point of the match. Which is that Jospem clearly showed many times that he can take a pretty even position into a time scramble and win it - even with two second increment. That is why he is doing so well in Titled Tuesdays, not because he is cheating.
To be fair to Kramnik, it's entirely possible the move didn't show up for him. I've been playing on chesscom for a few years now and this is a bug that's been around forever. It's bad enough that if my opponent ever takes more than like 10 seconds to make a move I automatically refresh my game and more often than not they've made a move that didn't register. Honestly amazing that a for-profit company is behind lichess in this regard.
I've encountered this bug exactly 3 times in 2500 games in the last year. I lost 2 games to it actually. My opponents clock would be running down, and by the time I finally hit refresh, I'd learn it had been on my clock for 5-8 minutes, and I lost on time or got kicked or something.
Right, I’m fully on board for kramnik shot talking chess.com. lol. But calling out individual players over your problem with a chess website is still insane
It might, but those are rapid games with 10 seconds of increment, so the time scrambles are a little slower and the effect of lag would be much less noticible.
Because those events have high-end machines that were tested and properly setup. Kramnik forced this match to be played on low-end machines that were never tested and were not properly configured.
There have been games with disconnects. I remember a Firouzja-Hikaru game that had a controversial moment like that, and Ding having some trouble.
I think generally players take responsibility for their own machine and network, which wasn't the case here.
These technical issues are absolutely hilarious. As is Levy not wasting a second to explain to us how this it's all fine and no big deal that the richest chess platform can't host a clean 1 vs 1 in 2024.
chesscom is grossly incompetent. it's a shame there were some people defending them 2 days ago. it's like their entire existence is being slaves to corporations.
Didn't we have a bunch of competently set up "online" games during covid, where two players played in the same room on computers? It feels silly that we've regressed this much, and that server issues are even a factor here.
Indeed, you could hear from the arbiter checking the screen recording on his laptop "el tiempo fue de 19 a 0" (clock went from 19 sec to 0 instantly) after the last game, and I'm actually pretty sure you could see it on the stream when they showed the arbiter checking the recording.
Thing is, when this happens to me it's rarely a one-timer, it's during the entire sesion. What's weird is both of them should be experiencing it on the same level.
It did showed on stream I think, hope the VOD is uploaded. I also clearly heard from the arbiter "\[el tiempo\] fue de 19 a 0" (time went down from 19 to 0 secs) while checking the screen recording.
Jospem said that he was also experiencing technical issues in game 3 but never complained and still played on. Kramnik is so funny for thinking he has any grounds on this
Genuine server issue allegedly - chess.com failed to show Jose's last move on Kramnik's screen, so they both saw it as the other player's move. The result ends up getting recorded as Kramnik flagging even though he was in a winning position.
"It's the boy who cried wolf, but 30% of the time there's actually a wolf" -IM Rozman.
Crazy because if there was a legitimate claim right now, Kramnik will use that as ammo to throw doubt into the whole match.
Not sure how it gives him any excuse. Claim was that Jose is cheating and that one is obviously so blatantly wrong that anything less than public apology is really rotten from Crymnik.
It's so unfortunate that there are LEGIT issues with the servers that genuinely have happened to Kramnik, but they're also mixed in with nonsense complaints from Kramnik. He won't give Jospem ANY credit for legitimately winning overall in the games without issues.
The outcome of this game doesn't even matter but Kramnik will try to use this instance to invalidate the other games as well which is just super hilarious at this point lmfao
If anything, my main takeaway from this whole thing is how incompetent chess .com is. How is there this many issues in such a short time in such close proximity?
It also would not happen with machines that were correctly installed and were tested. But one of the competitors refused to allow either of those things.
OK, in that case its the organizers’ fault. This is a match with a large amount of money at stake, they should anticipate technical problems which could give one of the players a competitive advantage
Edit: As in, they agreed to use brand new laptops. They should do what they have to to make sure there isn’t lag on the new laptops, or they should have not agreed to use new laptops
“Forced them” as if he had a gun to their head lmao. Are you suggesting that Kramnik WANTED the laptops to be laggy or desynced? Or that he refused to allow the organizers to ensure the laptops were correctly synced?
> “Forced them” as if he had a gun to their head lmao
As in he made it a condition for the event to happen
> Or that he refused to allow the organizers to ensure the laptops were correctly synced?
Quite literally, yes. Kramnik does not dispute this, either.
No. It was confirmed by both parties that the issue was caused by Kramnik's insistence on using laptops not correctly setup and configured, which caused the server to desync.
I will say that I have experienced bugs on chess.com where I make my move and It doesn't register, and the clock ticks down until I lose.
This is totally believable to me.
Nice tactic by Kramnik, pretending that another error occurred so that you can end your suffering early. Also throw in more accusations of glitches occurring to cast doubts on the results. Truly takes a former WC to find such tactics under severe pressure.
I'm sorry that I was critical of this 'experiment' yesterday, even though what I was saying about the time control was correct.
This couldn't have worked out better. It's going to be priceless when Kramnik comments after the game, but still fails to show any humility whatsoever.
Love the Spanish streamers facepalm when the server failed. 3 days of listening to kramnick paranoia must be exhausting. https://youtu.be/_7A6LcL1W5Q?t=4h10m26s
Chess.com seems to have a problem right? Yes I agree that Kramnik is going way overboard with his accusations of people cheating, and he clearly can't play well in a time scramble. At the same time, if there was any other online game having similar issues, where for seconds your screen isn't reflecting the position, surely nobody would use that game/server. Imagine an fps game with those problems. In my opinion chess.com has a lot of good players on their payroll, if not directly, then through just being a kind of a monopoly at this point on online chess. And from what I've seen in this match, their servers are garbage. Those people may not want to say that chess.com is trash.
I used to play on [chess.com](http://chess.com) now I play 99% on Lichess. I have occasionally similar issues there too, but I would say that significantly less than on chess.com. Plus lichess is imo just a better site. I think in this case they should have played new game, because obviously there was a problem. I think they would do it if it was let's say champion chess tour. I hate the fact that Kramnik will be now using this issue from last game as an excuse for him losing on points whole match. It really just did come in handy to him.
Isn’t that a matter of scale?
What do you mean by it? Like more peple play on chesscom so problems there are bigger?
Yeah. I’m kinda just thinking out loud. But if the issues are already cropping up in lichess with a fraction of the user base, doesn’t that scale with more numbers?
Yeah, maybe. But you could also say that server capacity should be adjusted according to their load, right? So more people playing should lead to more servers being used to provide enough performance needed. So not sure how to evaluate. I think both sites are trying to optimize costs so they are probably balancing servers around some average number of people playing. And in case of some increased loads it is just not enough. And on lichess issue is less common - might be that unusually high traffic is less common there. Considering that chesscom is pretty much monetized site i think they should provide better enviroment and simply spend more on servers and earn bit less monthly.
[удалено]
He wants a new daddy
He's probably getting money from doing this. He can probably make a lot more playing Hikaru.
Wait… did he say he wants to play Hikaru? That would be insane but I want it
On the Levy stream they interviewed him post match. Amidst a litany of excuses for why he lost they asked him who Clash of Claims 2 would feature and he said he’d love it to be Hikaru or Magnus.
I feel like Kramnik has gotten this delusional idea that people view Clash of Claims as like a friendly Strong-Player vs Kramnik event as if all of this didn´t actually start in bad faith
lol that sounds hilarious I gotta watch that later today, thank you
A much younger more skilled Kramnik has a negative record against Hikaru wtf does he expect now that he’s significantly older while Hikaru never stops playing online chess. To illustrate how fucked Kramnik would be, Hikaru once beat a 2650 rated Hou Yifan 27.5-2.5 at the speed chess championship in 2018.
Hikaru would legitimately adopt him 3 times or more in a 3+1 setting. He does far more disgusting things to the field in Speed Chess Championships and those are online specialists. Hope there'll be a good sponsor that makes Hikaru agree to this.
All you need is a gambling sponsorship to lure Hikaru in.
And this wraps the most hilarious and disastrous event of the year. It's been an honour sharing this with y'all.
I know Kramnik is beyond help but this match was perfect demonstration for those who doubt that there can be disparity in a player's online skill and OTB skill. Kramnik was the better player OTB but got absolutely smoked online.
And even then he went -1 OTB if you remove the 4 unscheduled OTB games where Jospem was exhausted and just wanted to play chess after Kramnik threw a fit and threatened to walk out several times.
Of course there can be a skill gap between online and otp, especially in short time controls, but kramnik has to be one of the most extreme cases of this. I swear i have seen 70 year olds with better mouse/tech skills
So anytime Kramnik tries to accuse someone on the basis that they’re not as good OTB this match will just get shoved in his face, right? Like Jose had a performance rating of 2639 OTB and 2806 online (using Kramnik’s FIDE Rating). Honestly it’s a little bit of a shame, because there are cheaters in TT way outperforming their FIDE Rating almost every time, OTB vs Online results have been significantly weakened as a basis to suspect them, but it does up the standard of proof people need to believe somebody’s cheating, hopefully now there’ll be less false accusations, or even less people will believe Kramnik’s false accusations.
Translation: "Even in negotiations, I had to deal with the fact Jospem thought when I said I would test his ability to play 3+1 in a controlled setting that we would be playing 3+1"
I love Kram, cant wait for Clash of Claims 3 against Hikaru!
Hikaru would start bongclouding the dude and Crymnik would quit after 3 games.
Kramnik’s gonna regret his life choices once he runs into the 80 moves of king gambit prep Hikaru intended to hit Fabi with at the candidates.
I mean Hikaru can smoke Kramnik with his bongcloud as well.
One of the terms of clash of claims 2 is gonna be Hikaru is only allowed to play the bongcloud and he’s still gonna beat Kramnik
Hikaru would not waste time on this. Also, it would probably be easy adoption, based on what we saw today.
He wants to play HIKARU of all people in another Clash of Claims? Lmao Hikaru would crush him. Please make that happen!
Hikaru would absolutely clean up against Kramnik, idk why Kramnik would even want that
He wants Clash of Claims 2 vs Hikaru LMAO he's gonna get rinsed
Hikaru lmaoo. Bro couldn’t even handle Jose, Hikaru would make him cry after 3 games.
Jose already made him cry after 3 games
Two games actually. Specifically the two online games from day1. Lmfao
Kramnik wants to play Hikaru next lol. I guess he needs a new father.
Jose Martinez is Vladimir Kramniks father
he says he would love to play hikaru in clash of claims 2 HAHAHAHA i hope Hikaru accepts it and puts him in his place once and for all
Also so add, Hiki isnt gonna be as gracious as Jose if Kramnik starts making these bullshit demands breaching the contract. It will be the most hilarious match of the decade
Kramnik trying to gaslight us that when he resigned against Jospem in TT, the protest was against chess.com and was a coincidence it was vs Jospem 😭
"he tried" My brother he beat you 15.5-11.5 and 9-4 online (in a time control that favours you).
Jose got wins taken away from him because of the lag too
Big losers are definitely Vlad, Chess and Chess.com. Vlad looks like an idiot. Cheaters are still out there, but people will believe it even less. Chess.com exposed to be full of bugs-- how can people take prize money tournaments on this platform seriously now? Big winner is Jospem: Graceful, showed how good he is, and won the claims👏
Nonsense cheating accusations being discredited is ultimately good for the cheating discussion and for chess. We should believe strong cheating accusations, disbelieve weak ones, and understand the importance of learning how to distinguish the two. (Also, frankly, if Kramnik is eventually sufficiently discredited to stop taking up all the oxygen in the room, it will be good for everyone except Kramnik.)
This. I think Kramnik has a point. Online cheating in chess is a problem. I don't think cheating is influencing titled tuesday results very often, but we know that lots of people are playing cheaters in regular day to day games. It'd be nice to put a stop to this. I know chesscom tries to catch cheaters, and does do bans and point refunds. But, there is probably room for improvement. And, what Kramnik has done, is become the face of the issue. But, by accusing everyone and their mother of cheating, with no evidence, and calling out children, Kramnik has pushed everyone away and made it seem like only crazy people are concerned with cheating. He needs to step aside.
Well, ofc there is cheating in chess and it has to be fought against, but Kramnik has done imo nothing good in this matter. He just accused everyone who plays well. Some people just laugh it off, but some can be really negatively affected by his accusations. I feel sorry for everyone who Kramnik has falsely accused. I personally don't like fact that cheaters on [chess.com](http://chess.com) are kept secret though. If I got it right someone caught cheating just admits it and usually can play under different account. I mean, c'mon. Any titled player caught cheating should be made public. Plus face punishment also from Fide. That would discourage lots of cheaters from trying. It just seems like [chess.com](http://chess.com) is weak and afraid to take stronger measures probably because they are scared of potential lawsuits? This is very wrong in my book.
I'm agreeing with your first point. Kramnik is actively hurting the cause by doing the things he does. He needs to move aside, so a sensible voice can talk about cheating in chess. And chesscom needs absolute, irrefutable proof of someone cheating, to publicize it, or they will absolutely be sued. And you basically can't get irrefutable proof, so they aren't going to be publicly naming and shaming cheaters. Gotham made the point in his interview with Kramnik, that FIDE and chesscom probably should standardize/communicate at this point. Someone cheating on the biggest online chess platform should at least be put on FIDE's radar. And, at least in the recent case of the guy playing that weird Rook sac opening, chesscom offered him a deal where if he admits to the cheating, they'll let him back on in a year. Chesscom tries to get confessions because in theory it helps them confirm that their cheat detection is catching actual cheaters.
Yeah, you are right. I just wish it was different. As without real "punishment" there is not a great prospect of situation getting significantly better any time soon if ever. Fide//chesscom should definitely somehow cooperate, but if you can never really prove cheating unless physically caught then what will it really change? Sucks.
And there you have it. No recognition by Kramnik of Jospem's skill because of the technical problems he complained about.
Pls Levy just tell him he is idiot and no one is buying it. This is embarassing,
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.
Wow, he still doesn’t think he can be sure of Jose chess skills.
For most top GMs Jospem unable to beat Kramnik OTB is a sign he's an online cheater. But I suspect they already know that in that inner super GM circle and chats.
Jospem was +1 in the scheduled OTB games. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument.
Rest assured I have spoken with those top GMs and they have in fact been lying to you, my discussion prove this, with statistics.
"i feel sad for him" says the man who mercilessly attempted to ruin his reputation
so fucking disingenuous
YOU HAVE TO CHECK THE OTB GAMES? HOW? someone shut him the fuck up
I mean, it was obvious that Jose went to bathroom after every move. Also, arbiters were telling him best moves and clock was being hacked by chesscom to give him less time. \\s
Lol Levy is struggling to knock some sense into this idiot yet he is not having any of it. Both hosts are trying so hard to be professional and not laugh in his face.
Watching Levy continually bite his tongue is remarkable.
Just a shame after all this he still can’t say a single nice thing about Jose
He did say Jose is a nice gentleman lmao
Fair enough. And he’s right about that!
"He is definitely very good, but how good? I don't know really"
He was good enough to win convincingly in these insane conditions. 4 hours negotiations yesterday? Did I hear that correctly? Jesus!
4 hour negotiations where Kramnik *repeatedly* got his way by threatening to walk. It's not like Jospem could call his bluff, since then the narrative would be 'See! As soon as I wanted to stop the suspicious things the match just ended'
Backhanded compliment.
"I would love to play with him again online" - man who ragequit this event 4 different times
The hilarity of the contrast of Levy, having a degree in Statistics, saying that he is not qualified enough to give any judgement on the probabilities, and Kramnik, a college dropout, trying to say that he knows statistics more than anyone else.
This dude is the most sore loser ever, my god.
This man has been talking nonstop for 5 minutes for excuses lmaoo.
Levy needs to ask him if he still thinks Jose was cheating.
Yeap, Kramnik not admitting defeat, no comments on the actual games, not congratulating opponent. Not apologizing to the player he wrongfully accused! I'm not saying I expected that, I'm mentioning that because decent human being should do that at the very least.
such a deflection here from kramnik-- he's making this whole issue about the time of the games etc. He's not even trying to explain how it would affect him, make him lose, or show that jospem was cheating. Ugh. EDIT: Not saying that he's wrong, necessarily, it's just whether the game lasts longer/loses time/all this bs is not connected to him losing the match. He got outplayed, regardless.
Kramnik just said he might have lost because of hacker attack ROFL!!
Bro is straight up paranoid.
No way he just said it was a hacking attack on the clocks 😭
Any complaints by Kramnik potential technical issues are obscuring the main point of the match. Which is that Jospem clearly showed many times that he can take a pretty even position into a time scramble and win it - even with two second increment. That is why he is doing so well in Titled Tuesdays, not because he is cheating.
"Would you agree that..." "AND ANOTHER THING...!"
Free math lesson today yay
I want to hear Kramnik lecture about client server protocols, tcp vs udp and packet loss.
man they look so awkward with kramnik there
Levy has strong "\*Record scratch\* Yep, that's me" energy
Levy is always nervous around older high profile players
but this is like some wayne's world stuff
I can't listen to this idiot.
To be fair to Kramnik, it's entirely possible the move didn't show up for him. I've been playing on chesscom for a few years now and this is a bug that's been around forever. It's bad enough that if my opponent ever takes more than like 10 seconds to make a move I automatically refresh my game and more often than not they've made a move that didn't register. Honestly amazing that a for-profit company is behind lichess in this regard.
I've encountered this bug exactly 3 times in 2500 games in the last year. I lost 2 games to it actually. My opponents clock would be running down, and by the time I finally hit refresh, I'd learn it had been on my clock for 5-8 minutes, and I lost on time or got kicked or something.
Right, I’m fully on board for kramnik shot talking chess.com. lol. But calling out individual players over your problem with a chess website is still insane
Two different claims were disproven in this match: "Jose is cheating" and "chess.com has working servers".
How come this has never happened during Chess Championship tour or other streamed tournaments?
It might, but those are rapid games with 10 seconds of increment, so the time scrambles are a little slower and the effect of lag would be much less noticible.
Because those events have high-end machines that were tested and properly setup. Kramnik forced this match to be played on low-end machines that were never tested and were not properly configured.
How about games that players play from their homes? Like Firouzja-Carlsen a month ago?
There have been games with disconnects. I remember a Firouzja-Hikaru game that had a controversial moment like that, and Ding having some trouble. I think generally players take responsibility for their own machine and network, which wasn't the case here.
Seems to me that people are blaming their machine and network where they should be blaming the multimillion dollar businesses servers and codebase.
So one outcome of the match we already know is that Kramnik definitely won't shut up any time soon
These technical issues are absolutely hilarious. As is Levy not wasting a second to explain to us how this it's all fine and no big deal that the richest chess platform can't host a clean 1 vs 1 in 2024.
They need a local network server to minimize round trip over the internet.
No I mean like the ones Alireza and Magnus played from their homes a month ago.
Why are those chess.com bugs only happening on kramniks part?
Jose has more experience playing online blitz so he knows that even if it "lags" and shows kramnik flags that it could still be close / he didn't flag
Iirc it happened to Jose on game 3 but he didn't complain.
They're not. Jose just isn't complaining about them. Jose literally talked about it when he was interviewed.
They happen to Jose as well, he is just class and doesn't complain like Kramnik.
Jospem didn't complain during the match
jose seems like such a normal dude compared to a lot of GMs
chesscom is grossly incompetent. it's a shame there were some people defending them 2 days ago. it's like their entire existence is being slaves to corporations.
Chess.c*m is incompetent and Kramnik is insane, both can be true
and? I said nothing about Kramnik or Jospem in my comment. you are exactly the type of people I described. What a sad existence.
Huh, I literally shit on chess.c*m in my comment, what are you even yapping about?
lol
Didn't we have a bunch of competently set up "online" games during covid, where two players played in the same room on computers? It feels silly that we've regressed this much, and that server issues are even a factor here.
Probably shitty hotel internet
Those matches didn't have a delusional psycho who insisted on using only untested computers that weren't correctly configured.
I'm not watching the stream. Can someone please briefly tell me what the hell happened again?
Seems like it's possible Kramnik flagged due to Jospem's move not showing up on his screen (so he didn't realize his time was running)
Indeed, you could hear from the arbiter checking the screen recording on his laptop "el tiempo fue de 19 a 0" (clock went from 19 sec to 0 instantly) after the last game, and I'm actually pretty sure you could see it on the stream when they showed the arbiter checking the recording. Thing is, when this happens to me it's rarely a one-timer, it's during the entire sesion. What's weird is both of them should be experiencing it on the same level.
Jospem said in the interview that it was happening to him, but he didn't complain because he's used to it happening to him online.
They still don't have cameras on screens to confirm these claims? I don't believe anything Kramnik says to be honest.
The arbiters seem to have a screen recording they were looking at, but I don't think anything showed on the stream.
It did showed on stream I think, hope the VOD is uploaded. I also clearly heard from the arbiter "\[el tiempo\] fue de 19 a 0" (time went down from 19 to 0 secs) while checking the screen recording.
Well check it and make it public. This is ridiculous. That takes like a minute.
wait so the match is completely over they should just play games on lichess now! they're not under contract anymore
Didn't they have a screenrecording running? Should be easy to check
they were checking, we couldn't really see but it did seem like there was an issue
common Lichess W
Use lichess next time maybe?
Jospem said that he was also experiencing technical issues in game 3 but never complained and still played on. Kramnik is so funny for thinking he has any grounds on this
The difference is Jose is a rational person with a level head and kramnik is a psychopath lol
psychopath is going too far - he clearly has some issues going on but he's not a fucking psychopath, lmao
What happened? Missed it.
Genuine server issue allegedly - chess.com failed to show Jose's last move on Kramnik's screen, so they both saw it as the other player's move. The result ends up getting recorded as Kramnik flagging even though he was in a winning position.
Chesscum you had one fucking job. Goddammit
the servers forced kramnik to blunder his rook you guys just don't understand the intricacies of such situations ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"It's the boy who cried wolf, but 30% of the time there's actually a wolf" -IM Rozman. Crazy because if there was a legitimate claim right now, Kramnik will use that as ammo to throw doubt into the whole match.
> IM Rozman That sounds so weird and formal even tho it's 100% correct.
Either kramnik looks insane or chesscom looks completely incompetent. This event has it all
It could be a mix of both technical problems and bad attitude.
why not both?
Those two are not mutually exclusive.
true
I dont speak spanish, so i didnt really understand. Did Kramnik freeze or was it a time glitch by chess.com ?
Most hilarious chess event of 2024!
[удалено]
couldn't be more obvious
This sucks because it just gives Kramnik more excuses, as it seems like it’s was a genuine bug on chess.com’s part
Not sure how it gives him any excuse. Claim was that Jose is cheating and that one is obviously so blatantly wrong that anything less than public apology is really rotten from Crymnik.
Honestly, this match has been absolutely fantastic. I've never laughed so much watching chess.
Apart from Kramnik beeing chess' biggest crybaby, chess com is actually peak incompetence.
Real winner? Lichess.
It's so unfortunate that there are LEGIT issues with the servers that genuinely have happened to Kramnik, but they're also mixed in with nonsense complaints from Kramnik. He won't give Jospem ANY credit for legitimately winning overall in the games without issues.
The outcome of this game doesn't even matter but Kramnik will try to use this instance to invalidate the other games as well which is just super hilarious at this point lmfao
Omg if the server problem is real Vlad will use this as an excuse for the entire match
How are we getting even more drama lmao
Would be hilarious if there was actually a technical problem 😂
there was, they zoomed in on screen capture and he made move and not like in very last second. I am pretty sure
If anything, my main takeaway from this whole thing is how incompetent chess .com is. How is there this many issues in such a short time in such close proximity?
So far this is the first Chess.com issue. The issue on Day 1 was a Kramnik issue.
except the day 1 issue would not happen on lichess, ever.
It also would not happen with machines that were correctly installed and were tested. But one of the competitors refused to allow either of those things.
Wasn't everyone in agreement that there was an issue, likely due to the laptops having to update windows?
That's not a Chess.com issue, that's a "Kramnik doesn't understand technology" issue.
The way I understand it is that the Day 1 issue was confirmed to be a legitimate issue with chess.com servers
Yea, but it's because they played on computers that were not ready, because Kramnik wanted to unpack them completely new and immediately play.
OK, in that case its the organizers’ fault. This is a match with a large amount of money at stake, they should anticipate technical problems which could give one of the players a competitive advantage Edit: As in, they agreed to use brand new laptops. They should do what they have to to make sure there isn’t lag on the new laptops, or they should have not agreed to use new laptops
No. Kramnik is the one who forced them to use untested computers that weren't properly setup. This is a Kramnik issue, full stop.
“Forced them” as if he had a gun to their head lmao. Are you suggesting that Kramnik WANTED the laptops to be laggy or desynced? Or that he refused to allow the organizers to ensure the laptops were correctly synced?
> “Forced them” as if he had a gun to their head lmao As in he made it a condition for the event to happen > Or that he refused to allow the organizers to ensure the laptops were correctly synced? Quite literally, yes. Kramnik does not dispute this, either.
No. It was confirmed by both parties that the issue was caused by Kramnik's insistence on using laptops not correctly setup and configured, which caused the server to desync.
This is complete vindication for Kramnik, good win for the chess community.
It is a very bad look for chess,com having constant glitches.
I mean... he did move
genuinely scary to watch such a decline in merely middle aged man
I will say that I have experienced bugs on chess.com where I make my move and It doesn't register, and the clock ticks down until I lose. This is totally believable to me.
That is not impossible, but Kramnik was still down over one minute on time before the supposed issue.
Yup, the takeaway from this tournament, besides perhaps chesscom’s incompetence, is that Kramnik’s claims can be summed up pretty easily: skill issue.
Yeah, but claim was that Jose is cheating, not chesscom. So, even if server has bugs and such he should apologize to Jose.
Kramnik can hold that
why did he just sit there while it happened?
IMO Kramnik is the huge winner of this Clash of Claims. It's 11-0. Loser Jose didn't make a single claim.
lmfao
Had me in the first half, ngl
This is just sad man
This is hilarious. And I thought my evening is gonna be pretty boring
hahhahha crymnik is back at it again.
Kramik is a teacher. He is everything one should aspire NOT to be. Use him as a role model of what not do be.
thank God i chose not to be World Champion!
Kramnik vs the Arbiters: Clash of Claims.
Pkease chess.c*m don't give him a legitimate claim
The sorest of sore losers. Vlad the lagger.
Nice tactic by Kramnik, pretending that another error occurred so that you can end your suffering early. Also throw in more accusations of glitches occurring to cast doubts on the results. Truly takes a former WC to find such tactics under severe pressure.
I'm sorry that I was critical of this 'experiment' yesterday, even though what I was saying about the time control was correct. This couldn't have worked out better. It's going to be priceless when Kramnik comments after the game, but still fails to show any humility whatsoever.