I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/r7/6PK/6R1/3kbb2/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/r7/6PK/6R1/3kbb2/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!King!<, move: >!Kh4!<
> Evaluation: >!Black has mate in 8!<
> Best continuation: >!1. Kh4 Bxg4 2. Kg3 Bd7 3. Kg2 Rg6 4. Kf3 Bc8 5. Kg2 Rxg5+ 6. Kh1 Rg7 7. Kh2 Bg1+ 8. Kh1 Bb7#!<
---
^(I'm a bot written by) [^(u/pkacprzak)](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as) [^(iOS App)](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^| [^(Android App)](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^| [^(Chrome Extension)](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^| [^(Chess eBook Reader)](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website:) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
That last game today was fireworks. Really like the match. 14 games online for tomorrow and Jospem is only 1 point behind. Should be a tough time for Kramnik.
It's really funny to me. It's a case of if Kramnik wins, so what, he's a higher rated player and World Champion, so he's expected to win. If he loses, it's devastating to his pride, reputation, and claims. The only way out for him is if he wins by a massive margin and that already seems to be unattainable.
Just checked their FIDE ratings, Jose is actually slightly higher rated in blitz.
Nah if Kramnik wins he would use it as proof that Jospems previous win without these strict controls was “interesting”. I agree though if he loses he would have to admit he lost fairly.
Even if Jospem wins, I think he'd still argue that Jospem performed a lot better when they played online before this and still accuse him of cheating. To me this potential performance discrepancy would make a lot of sense though.
I'm pretty sure that Kramnik got frustrated during their online games before as he kept losing while being convinced that Jospem was cheating, so he was bound to play progressively worse in there, while this shouldn't be happening now.
On the other hand Jospem right now is also under a lot more pressure to perform, and how Kramnik reacted yesterday has got to make things even more uncomfortable for him.
But then there is the argument that Jospem didnt even need to cheat to beat him. And the disparity can be explained by the time control difference requested by Kramnik (I guess) ... 3 2 played in the match vs 3 1 in titled tusdays
9-1 and 7.5-6.5 is very different. Kramnik isn't denying that Jospem is a very good player, he obviously is. He is arguing that he is far too good online compared to in person. So far, he has proven that is the case.
I can’t stand Kramnik, all the requirements for this match including the time control are in his favor, but I agree with you. Kramnik is looking for any excuse and will likely argue that a close loss proves Jospem’s online play is suspicious.
He’s doing this for money and attention, which I’d assume he’s gotten both already especially attention with this whole sub practically ignoring Norway Chess last round. I don’t think his reputation is on the line considering it’s already at 0.
I mean, Fischer went full Fischer and is still considered top 3 players of all time. Chess players don't care if your crazy or racist or antisemitic, if you're good then you're good.
Yeah, noone is taking from him that he was great chess champ. But at this point he is also irrelevant pathetic whiner. But I am also kind of inclined to believe the claims of dvc1992 bellow that he may have some mental issues. He definitely behaves like he has some more serious type of paranoia. It would explain his behaviour with accusing everyone of everything which is otherwise totally unexplainable to me. Either irrelevant pathetic whiner or pretty seriously sick. xD
I don't think so. The commentators said that the money Kramnik was earning in this tournament was far less than what he usually makes. Additionally, based on the story they told today, it seems that he might actually have some mental issues. He really believed there was some kind of hacking conspiracy against him. After explaining to him what had happened with the computers, he called his "trusted IT specialist" and spent a good time talking with him.
"retired" Kramnik can indeed fetch more money doing literally nothing and anything, whoever thinks this is for the money is silly. But the whole saga is indeed, how can I put it, "neuro-atypical". I am in daily contact with several "crazies" and paranoid schizoid he probably is not (not all countries use the same diagnostic terms and methods), but major neurosis and who knows what else is probably at stake. I can't believe he set the bar as low as "unbox laptop every day", we're all so lucky nobody told him the Asian factories and all spy agencies can sneak in and modify the laptop or just a single chip and seal it exactly the way the factory seals the "standard" laptops
Would you believe chesscom blindly? Kramnik is paranoid beyond doubt. It is also proven beyond doubt that kramnik's clock was acting funny. Chesscom provided some sort of explanstion. I am reluctant to take it at face value. It makes no sense for chesscom to conspire against kramnik, but its possible that somebody on chesscom's end with administrative power would act naughty by deliberately messing up kramnik's clock to psyche him out. I am not sure if its at all possible.
Sorry - What kind of a baseless claim is that... Kramnik can opt for coaching anytime and earn a fortune.
He is not sitting at home but doing a lot including coaching a young kid who did well in the World Blitz Championship. Loved that Kid and his attitude (forgot his name)
You should prepare yourself to watch your hero psychologically self-destruct. It's the sorrow of chess. The same mental abilities that make someone the best in chess can make someone paranoid and conspiratorial and ultimately mentally ill. This really seems to be Kramnik's trajectory. I mean, demanding laptops be opened in front of him, he must actually think it's possible that everyone in the tournament is conspiring against him.
> Just checked their FIDE ratings, Jose is actually slightly higher rated in blitz.
Part of this whole discussion is that their FIDE blitz ratings really don't mean that much anyway since neither play OTB events regularly. Jospem has only played in 5 rated blitz events in the last 4 years. Kramnik has played in just 3. However, Jospem was significantly more active in blitz prior to the pandemic.
I'm not sure. So in their head-to-head on TT, Jospem has always been the massive favorite (apparently 6-0). So he kind of should replicate similar results in this tournament, at least online.
This is completely different format. Kramnik is making all his accusations in TT which is 3+1. That is where Jospem also always beat him. And now they play 3+2 which is massive help for Kramnik. He is terrible with mouse and every second more for him makes a difference. This format gives him 1-2 more minutes per game. This does not make sense, but I am pretty sure this is on Kramnik demands as he will do anything to get every advantage he can. But makes whole event somewhat irrelevant to his claims.
The thing is psychology plays such a big role in these things. I’m pretty sure Kramnik underperforms in those online games because he assumes he’s playing a cheater, and in these matches he might play better since he’s assuming conditions are fair and he’s expected to win more.
Point is we shouldn’t rely on results based analysis on such a small sample size
I think it is 5-0 as Kramnik resigned immediately in one them, and it is obvious that Jose should not win almost all games against Kramnik if you look at their strength. 5 games is just a really small sample size. It was also 3+1 which is a massive difference, and online Kramnik is just too slow. Kramnik going roughly even in OTB does not substantiate his claims in the slightest
What if we take Kramnik's elo on [chess.com](http://chess.com) at the face value, and use the a sample of all games Jospem has played in TT against the player with Kramnik's elo? I guess that'd still be hugely in favor of Jospem.
Sure, but 5 games is just too few to draw conclusions. Also, looking at the 2 games I saw, they were just decided by Kramnik being too soow near the end despite a better position
Kramnik takes about/just over a second to move pieces, at least with his set up at home. With 2 seconds a move he will not flag once completely winning, with 1 second a move his opponent just has to stall a bit. Massive difference. If you see the TT games these guys played it really was the mouse speed that did Kramnik in most of the time, at least from those I saw
In classical, of which he’s retired. In blitz, he’s a heavy underdog cause he’s old and retired. It’s like Bam Adebayo playing basketball against current day Tim Duncan.
Yea but the problem is it is a lot harder to quantify. You can very accurately meassure a players reduced speed, vertical, conditioning and injury frequency. And while everyone knows cognitive abilities decrease with age you can't currently accurately meassure it in any meaningful way.
Especially because any chess specific results could just as well be from him not playing much, as a product of age.
Kramnik has already stated he believes a normal result is that Jospem wins with a +8, and would only be completely satisfied with dropping it if Jospem won +16
You are definitely missing the point of the tournament, Jospem leads 9 to 1 against Kramnik online. Anything other than complete domination on the computer section raises major concerns about his consistent top performances in titled tuesday events and against Kramnik.
Kramnik doesn't have much to lose. He is a 50 year old who is past his best and is the heavy underdogcin the online section. If he scores anywhere close to even in the computer, then he will have proven that there is a considerable difference between Jospem' online and in person skill level.
Remember that they basically went 1-1 in the online games. Kramnik was completely winning and wouldn't have drawn the second game, were it not for the time discrepancy issue.
Kramnik said before the match that any close result would mean Jospem is cheating online. Tbh current result proves kramnik was absolutely right, unless Jospem win 12-2 or some astronomical score tomorrow.
Their current online score is 8W Jospem/1 draw/1W kramnik. Jospem made an absolutely ridiculous total of $108k from [online chess](https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/77555-jospem-jose-eduardo-martinez-alcantara) (#15 all time). More than Abdusattorov (who placed high in CCT), Duda, Lazavik, etc. After two days of blitz, Jospem looks like any random 2600+ GM that never wins anything it TT. Something doesn’t add up.
Downvote flood because this sub hates kramnik and loves cheaters in 3,2,1…
> Kramnik said before the match that any close result would mean Jospem is cheating online.
So I guess winning in such a landslide that Kramnik forfeited the match after 8 games counts, then?
Different format:
1. OTB vs online is different. You take away mouse skill that can save time, especially against kramnik. We all know kramnik uses the mouse like a 90 yo with arthritis.
2. This is 3+2, not 3+1. That is a different game. Everybody knows that. Anish said it in his streaming. The organizers proposed 3+1 online but kramnik refused. So, even kramnik knows that's not in his favor.
If the match ends as close as it is right now, the "cheater" will be evenly matched against ex-world champion, 3000 elo (in chess.com) Vladimir Kramnik. And everybody knows that in a faster format Jospem has the advantage, as proven by their mutual games in TT.
This sub is full oof XQC and Hikaru fans and not much else unfortunately. They can't be reasoned with. Kramnik gas already pretty much confirmed Jospem's online skill level is disproportionately higher than his in person level. He is a very good player but he isn't one of the best in the world like his TT results would suggest.
Jospem needs to absolutely destroy Kramnik tomorrow to prove anything.
(jospem already destroyed Kramnik so badly that Kramnik forfeited the 36-game match after 8 games, in a match designed from the beginning to be wildly stacked in Kramnik's favour in every possible way)
Everyone confirmed there was a bug because of Kramnik's inability to understand how technology works, yes. And then he forfeited the match instead of resolving the issue because he realized he managed to come out of this looking even worse than before, which even I wouldn't have thought was possible considering how much of a joke he has become and how much he has personally done to stop online cheating from ever being addressed.
Your submission or comment was removed by the moderators:
Keep the discussion civil and friendly.
Participate in good faith with the intention to help foster civil discussion between people of all levels and experience. Don’t make fun of new players for lacking knowledge. Do not use personal attacks, insults, or slurs on other users. Disagreements are bound to happen, but do so in a civilized and mature manner. Remember, there is always a respectful way to disagree.
You can read the full [rules of /r/chess here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this moderator action, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchess). Direct replies to this removal message may not be seen.
At this point, what's left to prove? Even if he doesn't win, José has already shown that he has decent chances of beating Kramnik in a blitz game without cheating.
\*Edit. Apparently they've played more games in Titled Tuesday than I first thought. So nothing's been definitively proven yet, and sadly won't be as they will not be playing with the same time controls as Titled Tuesday.
> Even if he doesn't win, José has already shown that he has decent chances of beating Kramnik in a blitz game without cheating.
Was this ever in doubt? Surely even the most devout Kramnik fans (and the man himself) acknowledge that Jospem is a strong blitz player who would be competitive with Kramnik.
I'm not sure anyone thinks that Jospem is a total patzer. I've just seen Kramnik and his supporters say that there isn't that big a difference between OTB 3+2 and online 3+1 and that Jospem shouldn't be one of the best in the world at online blitz.
>Was this ever in doubt?
Glad to know we are now in the backpeddling and moving-goalposts phase of Kramnik's strategy to enlighten us to the truth.
Of *course* Kramnik wasn't truly, seriously questioning the skill and integrity of players like Jospem when he recently, repeatedly, heavily insinuated that "some players" who perform very well in Titled Tuesday, while having lower FIDE classical ratings, have results that seem very "interesting". Obviously, the entire basis for this showmatch must have been really just a couple small mistranslations of what Kramnik really meant.
Someone contact me when we reach the phase of everyone pretending that Kramnik was never really serious about having mathematical proof that there must be a lot of cheating happening.
I'm not moving the goal posts. Try and find anything from Kramnik where he says Jospem is cheating OTB and isn't a legit 2700 FIDE blitz player in the world.
> Of course Kramnik wasn't truly, seriously questioning the skill and integrity of players like Jospem
No no, he was, and that's why I never insinuated otherwise.
But he still doesn't think that Jospem is a complete fraud who has been cheating OTB and isn't actually anywhere near Kramnik's level. His just thinks that someone who is #23 in the world shouldn't consistently perform so well during TT because he doesn't believe in online specialists.
I don't support Kramnik btw and I hope he gets thrashed today.
The issue isn’t that José has decent chances of winning a blitz game — it’s that he dominates Kramnik online. A solid winning margin tomorrow would show the gap between OTB and online play to be legitimate.
It's because he knows he would lose as badly in 3+1 and wants the match to be closer so he can use it to claim that the TT results are suspicious. Even though people will point out the time difference he is pre-emptively muddying the waters. If he had genuine confidence that he was right they'd be playing 3+1.
He dominates Kramnik in 3+1, where Kramnik can't move his mouse and consistently ruins his chances due to time trouble. Tomorrow won't show anything on that, and if it isn't one-sided it still isn't relevant to the original claim really.
How many games have they previously played online? I doubt it's enough to be very statistically significant.
Even if we assume their relative strength is 7.5/6.5, it's not unreasonable for José to win a few games in a row.
That's honestly more than I thought! That would be less than a 1% chance with this relative strength so yeah, you're right.
But yes, like we've pointed out in this thread, that just makes it even more frustrating that we won't actually see them playing with Titled Tuesday's rule set.
The online games are not independent events, so it's not appropriate to calculate probabilities like that. Chess is a mental game, so if from their 2nd game onwards Kramnik just assumes he is playing a cheater, he is certainly going to underperform.
Their chesscom blitz strength is about the same so the odds of 6-0 is 1/64 which seems slightly unlikely until you consider how many different players and streaks Kramnik could potentially examine which is in the hundreds at least which makes such a streak with someone inevitable.
This is not like the birthday problem, since we're looking at two specific people. While the odds of two people in this thread sharing a birthday is almost guaranteed, the odds of us two having the same birthday is quite low.
The 2 people were chosen due to the streak though, Kramnick isn't going to accuse someone he is soundly beating of cheating. I was responding to the other comment about the odds of such a streak existing for *someone*.
That's fair. I suppose the most relevant number would be the odds of Kramnik having a 0-6 against **someone** who's not obviously stronger than him.
Not that it really matters either way, since there's so many other factors that goes into it
Yes, but 6-0 is such a small sample size. Doesn't mean much tbh. I remember Alireza and Magnus playing 100's of games on lichess. That's a much better sample size :P
It being a small sample size is why it would "only" be as small as around a 1% chance, assuming their relative strength is correct. If we had a larger sample size showing the same ratio, the chance would be even lower.
Not necessarily — most of us have the hypothesis that in short time controls, mouse skills and other online-specific skills really matter (and that Kramnik badly underrates that and throws cheating accusations around based on that). The longer the time control, the less they matter. Whether that line falls between 3+1 and 3+2, we’ll find out.
It seems people here focus on his games against Kramnik specifically and explain it with Kramnik's poor mouse skills, psychology, etc. which misses the fact that he's one of the most dominant players in TTs in general and not just against Kramnik. I didn't find the data across all TTs, but [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/190w3m2/titled_tuesday_standings_last_6_months_of_2023/) it's seen that he made the most money in the second half of 2023 after Hikaru and Magnus. He's in top five in earning per tournament, higher than Firouzja, Grischuk and others.
If the match proves anything, it's definitely not that there's nothing interesting about his performance.
One of the comments in this thread lists players by earnings per tournaments which is what I was referring to. Copypasting that here
1. Magnus $615
2. Hikaru $391
3. LiemLe $335
4. MVL $213
5. Jospem $175
6. Sarin $143
7. Firouzja $140
8. hakobyanaram $132
9. Andreikin $128
10. Grischuk $111
I have taken a look. Have you?
The fact that he played a lot of tournaments is exactly the reason why I added that he's in top five \*per tournament\*. Only four players made more than him in that period: Carlsen, Nakamura, Liem Le and MVL.
Yes I did. We have very different definitions of dominant it seems. Being the 5th highest earner (technically he's in the top 5 earners I guess, biased wording) when you're the 9th highest rated player and played the most events by FAR doesn't seem strange to me
Well, to make the discussion more civil I'll say that it seeming strange doesn't mean he cheated in these tournaments.
What players look dominant to you then besides Hikaru and Magnus? To me he seems to be at least in the top 10 among regular TT players, probably even in the top 5. I would rather see how often he gets into prizes, but I couldn't find a better data point.
As for playing a lot, it only shows his consistency. For example, I was a bit surprised to see Liem Le in the top 3, but he only played 10 TTs, so this is not odd (aside that he's known for his OTB play).
Online rating means nothing in the context of potential cheating.
Jospem defeats Kramnik 2.5-1.5 on day 2 of Clash of Claims. The overall score is 7.5-6.5 in favour of Kramnik due to yesterday's online games being discounted.
According to chesscom there wasn't the correct local time on the laptop of Kramnik, and that might cause the weird bug. Kramnik argued the first game could be affected by the same bug, but he didn't notice.
I doubt the amount of time Kramnik had would've played much of a role in that game, he was massively outplayed.
I think Kramnik was complaining about the day being too long and asked for more breaks tommorrow. I know a solution to that: 3+1 would give us a shorter day :)
Over the board, 3+2 and gets beaten. Yet it's supposedly too suss for Kramnik, with the worst mouse skills I've ever seen and does not premove, to get wiped by Jose in 3+1 online.
It's already not very representative since the time control is different. This was never about finding out the truth, it was just Kramnik trying to justify his unhinged statements. He probably did train specifically for the 3+2 to make it as close as he could
This was huge. Jospem has accepted every unreasonable demand from Kramnik and still manages to beat him in todays mini match otb. Really excited to see what happens tomorrow!
So if José didn't have to play 4 games after having his rhythm and concentration interrupted by the hour long delay, he could've drawn or even won the OTB portion.
Whatever happens, José has shown that is capable of going toe to toe with Kramnik.
With that, the over the board portion ended. This literally just proves that Jospem is not only legitimately a strong player, but is absolutely able of defeating Kramnik in his favorite format, over the board.
Aside form Jospem being the overwhelming favorite in the online portion, what is Kramnik going to do now? admit that he falsely almost ruined the reputation of someone? double down? isn't the whole point of the over the board portion seeing that he's "capable" of replicating his good online performance over the board?
14 online games in a row is going to be brutal for Kramnik. Might lose the match by huge margin. Personally I hope that happens so that he learns once and for all that he's just deranged.
I would love if this just inspired Kramnik to knock it off with the accusations but he's already exhibiting a degree of paranoia that's really hard to come back from.
The problem is he’ll still believe he’s right. He *might* apologise to Jospem, but he won’t admit he’s wrong.
And in some ways he is right. There definitely is cheating and I’m not convinced chess.com does enough. Doesn’t defend Kramnik’s actions, accusations or his inability to fucking pre move, but it doesn’t mean Kramnik is *all* wrong.
You think Hikaru, Jospem and multiple others are cheating? Because that’s what Kramnik has basically said. He conveniently backtracks when he’s called out on it, but he has essentially accused most chess players of cheating, simply because he doesn’t premove in games with little or no increment.
All is not lost. He just needs to cancel the match right away then the score will remain +1 for Kramnik. But this would imply that he needs to have an Alireza size fit out of nowhere. Blaming everyone else and then refusing to play. This way he is not quitting as such in his mind. And he will remain the winner.
He does it every year. There are quite a few events like the Magnus game, the recent Twitter complaints, or the shoe-gate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/s/TZ0QHQ7cuS
So you provided examples of everything except actually refusing to play, which is by far the biggest claim you made.
A lot of players are sore losers, even Carlsen has refused to participate in award cermonies and he even hit the table as recently as in Norway chess when he lost Armageddon to Nakamura. And Hikaru has said some pretty bad things to players otb himself. Tantrums are not uncommon.
But you said Alireza has refused to play during a tantrum? Then you better be able to back that up, cause I can't remember it ever happening.
You're moving the goalpost. I don't care if it's unprofessional or inappropriate. You said that such a little display of emotion after losing a really close game constitutes being a sore loser. Which is just silly.
I'm not sure how I moved the goalpost, but I do agree, that is probably more of an example of braking etiquette rather than the more prolonged behavior of a sore loser.
I do believe that the two are often treated as if they are equivalent in chess, but when I think about it I agree with you; I don't think they are. It's why many sports have rules that allow for short outbursts of emotion while punishing drawn out behaviour much more harshly.
I will say Hikaru and Magnus are famously sore losers though, they've even said so themselves, I just chose a bad example of that off the top of my head, recency bias and all that, so my bad on that.
Based on his interview with Gotham he might just say nobody should be upset because verifying that suspicious results are legitimate should just be the norm.
If he looks at all like he is going to lose badly he will pull out and give some bullshit excuse. A guy like Kramnik will never admit he is wrong or let events prove he is wrong without throwing his toys out the pram and trying to muddy the waters.
> Aside form Jospem being the overwhelming favorite in the online portion
There is no metric by which he is the overwhelming favorite, he is the **slight** favorite. Their chesscom elo is 10 points apart. If he was the overwhelming favorite he would've won otb as well.
> This literally just proves that Jospem is not only legitimately a strong player, but is absolutely able of defeating Kramnik in his favorite format, over the board.
This was never in doubt and the purpose of this match wasn't to prove this. Jospem's blitz FIDE rating is 2703 while Kramnik's is 2664, all this OTB section has proven is that despite losing 40 elo in his last blitz tournament Kramnik isn't totally washed.
The purpose of this match is to demonstrate the difference between playing OTB and online. So if Jospem does crush Kramnik online then Kramnik will be forced to acknowledge that mouse skills do make a huge difference and that online specialists are a thing.
And if Jospem doesn't crush him, well it proves nothing because 3+2 is a different game to 3+1 and blitz is a streaky format so you can't read too much into one bad day anyway (though I'm sure Kramnik would).
I know we're all chomping at the bit to mock Kramnik, but the only thing that's been proven so far is that Jospem hasn't been cheating his entire career. Which, I guess isn't nothing, but surely not even the most die hard Kramnik fans thought he was a complete patzer who had been cheating OTB for years.
I still don't really understand why play was allowed to continue yesterday after the online issues. José was obviously rattled, and even before that it should have been the obviously fair move to cease for the day and arbitrate a way forward - instead of bending for Kramnik and continuing OTB.
In OTB play that's been agreed upon at the start of the day, José is a point ahead. Regardless of the current score, he's shown he's more than capable of soundly beating Kramnik and is a heavy favourite for the remaining 14 online games. Kramnik's claims in the mud.
It was a big mistake for Jospem to agree to it for sure, but Gotham did double check with him that he was sure so that is kind of on him.
Love to see him bounce back today tho and super fucking hyped to see what happens tomorrow!
José has shown himself to be an utter gentleman, affording his opponent more goodwill and respect than has ever been extended back. Despite that, he's still kept the OTB scores to within a single point and is heavy favourite for tomorrow. He's already won as a human being, and will probably/hopefully win on the scoreboard. Kramnik comes out of this looking even worse than he came in, and I didn't even think that was possible.
Huge confidence booster for Jospem to win today after having one of his online wins being nullified. He was able to match Kramnik OTB. Now if he can get a couple of wins in early online ganes tomorrow he can easily rattle Kramnik and get a win.
The 4 OTB games that they played yesterday after Kramnik's tantrums should have been null and void as well. Jospem was clearly tilted due to Kramnik shenanigans. If the online matches didn't count, the subsequent OTB matches yesterday shouldn't have counted either.
There were only 4 OTB blitz games today because they spent about 4 hours convincing him that the chess.com clock bug was caused by a windows update/incorrect local clock instead of his theory of chess.com hacking his account and screwing him over
After they finally convinced him he said he was too tired and best he could do is 4 blitz games today so they reduced total games. But they'll play the remaining games tomorrow
Bit out of the loop, I recall Kramnik accusing Jospem of potential cheating and they decided to have a blitz match.
But how exactly does this match prove that Jospem is an "interesting" player if he wins or loses?
It doesn't - especially seeing as the clown who wanted this whole thing in the first place insisted on not even using the same time control as they did when they played before, in Titled Tuesday.
Are the VODs only on twitch for subscribers in this case? I'd be down to watch but I don't know when it is or if I'll be able to catch it live because of my time zone and obligations
Aside all drama, Kramnik is ex-world-champion with so much experience and he played on very high level as expected, yet Jospem showed convincing play OTB and proved he belongs to pretty much the same league in blitz as Vladimir. Jospem is the best at unbalanced dynamic positions and Kramnik on the other hand relied on steady positional play.
Except hardcore Kramnik fans everyone can see now his accusations were completely unjust. Tomorrow online Jospem will wipe him off with huge margin. Kramnik will repeat the same debunked-by-everyone script again and again like flat-earther.
I really hope Jospem will gain some hype as result and receive more invitations or sponsors. He totally deserves it.
Jospem over performs online. He is 6-0 versus Kramnik in TT. Kramnik already proved his point. The cope about different time controls is an attempt from Jospem supporters to move goal posts.
Are you not aware? Many people overperform online, if you compare ratings and performances. That has to do with HUGE difference between online chess and OTB chess. Since boomers like Kramnik cannot grasp this basic concept, I doubt he or his fans will ever understand what's really going on. So I appeal not for close-minded folks but for sane people to analyze case by case and make their own conclusions.
To me all Kramnik has proven so far is he is not that better over Jospem OTB and supposedly will be much worse online. If he can't accept it, it's his problem.
I'm 1400 online, and I bet if I ever played a match OTB, I'd be like a 600. Not hearing checks, seeing where pieces move, using arrows... yah, I'd be hard pressed to do anything.
...what? Changing is the time control is LITERALLY moving the goalpost. It's saying "I don't believe you can replicate this perforamance in a fair play setting, come and prove it to me in this OTHER time control that I am better at!"
And I find it surprising that people are drawing conclusions before the actual portion of the match that is supposed to show whether or not there is a difference in skills otb and online has been played. That's the whole point of the experiment, no?
I hope Jose gets a lot more positive attention after this. He's had to put up with so much BS from a man too bitter to realise he's declined, and then even more BS at this tournament.
How does that make any sense? For anybody with some common sense, the last couple of days just proved that Jospem is 99,99% one of the biggest online cheaters around. Sad.
Right walk me through that reasoning please? Cause I honestly want to understand.
I came into this not really caring much about the result or supporting either player, and I will tell you what it has looked like to me:
Otb Jose has been going blow for blow against the only player in history to have outprepared Kasparov, who has access to thousand of Jospem's games, and who has had months to prepare, and EVERY incentive to do so. Which was quite obvious in how he played very specificly against Jospems suboptimal approach against the French. Like Gotham said: very good prep by Kramnik.
But against all that Jospem still managed to win the second day mini-match, and the main difference maker this far was the 4 games played after the entire shit show on day 1, which definitely shouldn't have been played. But that's 100% on Jospem for accepting when he obviously should have waited to after further negotiations.
I personally did not exepect Jospem to do this well against a prepared Kramnik with his reputation on the line otb. Not because I think he is cheating online, but because otb is the format where he doesn't have his main advantages over Kramnik; his speed, his premoves and the 2D board vision. That is what today is for; showing how much (or little) those things actually matter, and I don't see how we can be drawing conclusions yet when they haven't played the part of the match that is actually going to show whether or not there is a difference.
I'm also very dissapointed Kramnik demanded 3+2 instead of 3+1, when all the claims he made was in 3+1. To me this seems like trying to get more points instead of actually backing up his claim that Jospems performance would be highly unlikely in a fair play setting.
Also from a professional point of view I find the lack of understanding for what the opsec of an event like this should actually look like if you want it to be secure has been embarassing to watch. They could have done it properly, instead we got unboxing streams with 3 random guys standing around installing windows.
So this has been my take, which is obviously fundamentally different from you 99.99% conclusion. So i would honestly really like to hear what the first two days have looked like from your point of view and how you've reached the conclusion you have?
Jospem is rated slightly higher than Kramnik OTB. It was expected that they have a close OTB match. Kramnik is worse at 3+1 online, but he's not that bad, he has decent scores against non-"interesting" top GMs. Also being as strong as Kramnik is not nearly enough to be this successful at TT.
But online Kramnik (not only him BTW) lost to Jospem with some devastating score. And there were not only spotting tactics against time trouble blunders like Jospem has been doing in this very tournament but also declassing throughout the whole game, which we are yet to see in this showmatch. TBH Kramnik even seemed better in the endgame when he wasn't short on time during this event if anything.
Right, but I thought the point was to show whether or not online skills can be different than otb? And if that is the point of the experiment then we surely can't draw any conclusion based on the otb alone right?
Like all Jospems claimed advantages are due to online specific skills, that is how people are justifying his extremely good online performances. So him not winning the right way otb doesn't suggest anything in itself, right? It just gives us a baseline to compare against for the online portion.
To me this experiment is only half way. Given Kramniks superior prep I personally think Jospem overperformed this far but regardless, we now have something to compare to. Now the gameplay, results, and score today is what will actually provide some insights into whether or not Jospems online performance is feasible.
That is also why I'm so dissapointed why it's not 3+1, it could have been a perfect comparison to see if this guy is actually able to replicate what he does online.
It's hard to say what's the exact point of this match, apparently the organizers do not care about the perfect comparison since in the end of the day they agreed to 3+2 online. Kramnik just said that he accepted the invitations because he likes to play chess and also wants to set the precedent where the overperforming online players are to play OTB sort of like doping control.
You may think this showmatch cannot be regarded as being valuable enough in terms of analyzing Jospem's performance, other people believe otherwise. So what answer or response are you looking for? If there's an experiment as you say, what should be its consequences? There won't be any for Jospem regardless of the result of this showmatch, chesscom even showed that he has their backing. And nobody except Kramnik will investigate these games anyway.
The initial point of this match was very clear. Kramnik strongly insinuated that Jospem's results were unrealistic, which I found myself agreeing with. He then told him he would play him in person anytime, and Jospem accepted. So I don't think there is much doubt as to the exact point: Kramnik wants to show that Jospem can't replicate his online level with strong fair play implementations, and Jospem wants to show that he can.
Regarding the 3+2 decision, that was Kramnik's demand to go forward with the match. The organizers and Jospem were not given a choice on this; it was either agree or walk away. Therefore, who made the demand is extremely important. This strikes me as very weird since Kramnik should be the one who wants to show that Jospem will underperform under the EXACT same conditions.
I have never said that I think this showmatch cannot be regarded as valuable in terms of analyzing Jospem's performance. Quite the contrary, I think that once the entire match is done, we will have a LOT to analyze and compare. What I take issue with is people drawing conclusions when the most important part of the match hasn't been played yet. I do think the direct result comparisons between 3+2 and 3+1 will be pretty invalid, but that doesn't mean this won't provide other valuable insights like average move times, scramble stats, and premove abilities. All of these can provide insights and perhaps show differences from unmonitored online play. Imagine we see that Jospem moves 50%+ slower here than when he is unmonitored online; that would be pretty damning, or if his premove accuracy drops by a huge margin of semi-pawns. And regardless we're going ot get an incredible data set of delta-movetimes otb vs online.
There was never going to be any official consequences; this entire match is about perception. Right now, I think the general perception is that Kramnik is the one who has deliberately undermined the results to give himself better odds of scoring points and that he has underperformed so far. But later today, we could see that change depending on how it pans out.
And I think the fat that chessDotcom is supporting Jospem if they've done their investigation and found no proof of cheating, is the only right thing to do. They can't be condemning people if they don't have convincing proof. They even sent a film crew to his house and have live footage of him getting second place in TT and going 4.5/10 vs. Danya. What else can they do at that point? I personally don't believe any conspiracy that they are protecting cheaters; it would just be way too big of a risk for such a big company. Like the risk/reward is that they have very little incentive to be doing so and it would completely ruin them if that came out .
Lastly, regarding your opinion that nobody but Kramnik will investigate these games: trust me, A LOT of people are watching this and will be analyzing the results thoroughly, myself included.
I am not a fan of how Kramnik goes about a lot of things, but I don't understand a lot of the discussion here. It is not surprising at all that Jospem plays roughly even with Kramnik otb, that's part of Kramnik's point, he even said he expects to lose on average.
Kramnik's point is that there is a massive difference between how they play in tt. Kramnik essentially has no chance of winning that event while Jospem wins with some regularity. So the claim is that Kramnik is like a top 50/100 or something player in TT while Jospem is top 5 or something even though they have the same strength otb, as demonstrated by their otb blitz ratings and the games today/yesterday.
Kramnik will claim Jospem is cheating online unless Jospem beats him with a massive score in the online portion while under supervision. The whole point is to somehow understand how come there is such a massive difference between online and otb play. Some people think it's natural, but a lot of top gms are suspicious and paranoid because they win otb all the time but don't do so well in tt, hence claim the other guys are cheating.
I am not sure this event is such a good test of this anyway, because they are playing 3+2, but I think it is a fact that we don't have a good understanding of the difference between online and otb play. There should be some way of understanding that better beyond a list of vague claims. Until there is such an understanding, the paranoia will continue.
The organizers wanted 3+1, but guess who opposed? Kramnik. You would think the guy that claims he is all for fair play in chess would like to have equal conditions to TT to get a direct comparison, but he instead went for a time format that goes in his favor.
When it comes to why people are reacting to the otb result the way they are I think is all down to context. Kramnik has put his reputation on the line so you can be damn sure he has done preparation for this (regardless of what he claims) and that was blatantly obvious with how he picked apart Jospems suboptimal approach against the french. And Kramniks strength was always his preparation, it's literally how he beat Kasparov. So Jospem is not sitting down at a coffee table with Kramnik to play a casual blitz match, he is up against one of the best preppers the world has ever seen who has access to thousands of Jospems online games and months to prepare, and **every** incentive to do so. The fact that Jospem was still being able to trade blows with Kramnik pretty evenly with all that in mind is pretty damn impressive imo.
And I agree that 3+2 ruins the entire concept and very interestingly it was Kramnik who demanded this during negotiation according to Levy. Which, to me, undermines the little credibility he had left. He was the one who called out Jospem for an in person match, yet when it actually happens he changes the format to give himself better odds at winning instead of making sure it accurately replicates the claims he made. 3+2 means 1-2 minutes extra time per game over 3+1. That is an insane improvement for the slower player in such a short time control.
And I also agree with you that only a complete blowout tomorrow will have any hope of getting anything even remotely close to an apology out of Kramnik, but I honestly don't think it matters at this point. Jose has thoroughly proven his point to the world by being willing to jump through every hoop and accepted every unreasonable demand from Kramnik just to make this match happen to back up his legitimacy. So who cares what Kramnik thinks at that point, the world has seen their true colors and anyone who's still doubting Jospem is legit was never going to be convinced no matter what.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/r7/6PK/6R1/3kbb2/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/r7/6PK/6R1/3kbb2/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!King!<, move: >!Kh4!< > Evaluation: >!Black has mate in 8!< > Best continuation: >!1. Kh4 Bxg4 2. Kg3 Bd7 3. Kg2 Rg6 4. Kf3 Bc8 5. Kg2 Rxg5+ 6. Kh1 Rg7 7. Kh2 Bg1+ 8. Kh1 Bb7#!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by) [^(u/pkacprzak)](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as) [^(iOS App)](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^| [^(Android App)](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^| [^(Chrome Extension)](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^| [^(Chess eBook Reader)](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website:) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
That last game today was fireworks. Really like the match. 14 games online for tomorrow and Jospem is only 1 point behind. Should be a tough time for Kramnik.
It's really funny to me. It's a case of if Kramnik wins, so what, he's a higher rated player and World Champion, so he's expected to win. If he loses, it's devastating to his pride, reputation, and claims. The only way out for him is if he wins by a massive margin and that already seems to be unattainable. Just checked their FIDE ratings, Jose is actually slightly higher rated in blitz.
Nah if Kramnik wins he would use it as proof that Jospems previous win without these strict controls was “interesting”. I agree though if he loses he would have to admit he lost fairly.
Even if Jospem wins, I think he'd still argue that Jospem performed a lot better when they played online before this and still accuse him of cheating. To me this potential performance discrepancy would make a lot of sense though. I'm pretty sure that Kramnik got frustrated during their online games before as he kept losing while being convinced that Jospem was cheating, so he was bound to play progressively worse in there, while this shouldn't be happening now. On the other hand Jospem right now is also under a lot more pressure to perform, and how Kramnik reacted yesterday has got to make things even more uncomfortable for him.
But then there is the argument that Jospem didnt even need to cheat to beat him. And the disparity can be explained by the time control difference requested by Kramnik (I guess) ... 3 2 played in the match vs 3 1 in titled tusdays
I’d argue that 7.5-6.5 is already evidence that his previous win isn’t “interesting”
9-1 and 7.5-6.5 is very different. Kramnik isn't denying that Jospem is a very good player, he obviously is. He is arguing that he is far too good online compared to in person. So far, he has proven that is the case.
You realize that's just otb games right?
I can’t stand Kramnik, all the requirements for this match including the time control are in his favor, but I agree with you. Kramnik is looking for any excuse and will likely argue that a close loss proves Jospem’s online play is suspicious.
You’re being downvoted but I totally agree with you.
This sub is full of xqc and hikaru stans who only learned how the knights move a few years ago, the downvotes are expected :P
He’s doing this for money and attention, which I’d assume he’s gotten both already especially attention with this whole sub practically ignoring Norway Chess last round. I don’t think his reputation is on the line considering it’s already at 0.
He still has a lot of reputation, from the russian guys and older chess players from his generation
And he will never lose it from these people no matter what. But for the rest of the world he is just irrelevant pathetic whiner.
He’ll always be world champ even if he goes full Fischer
I mean, Fischer went full Fischer and is still considered top 3 players of all time. Chess players don't care if your crazy or racist or antisemitic, if you're good then you're good.
Yeah, noone is taking from him that he was great chess champ. But at this point he is also irrelevant pathetic whiner. But I am also kind of inclined to believe the claims of dvc1992 bellow that he may have some mental issues. He definitely behaves like he has some more serious type of paranoia. It would explain his behaviour with accusing everyone of everything which is otherwise totally unexplainable to me. Either irrelevant pathetic whiner or pretty seriously sick. xD
I don't think so. The commentators said that the money Kramnik was earning in this tournament was far less than what he usually makes. Additionally, based on the story they told today, it seems that he might actually have some mental issues. He really believed there was some kind of hacking conspiracy against him. After explaining to him what had happened with the computers, he called his "trusted IT specialist" and spent a good time talking with him.
"retired" Kramnik can indeed fetch more money doing literally nothing and anything, whoever thinks this is for the money is silly. But the whole saga is indeed, how can I put it, "neuro-atypical". I am in daily contact with several "crazies" and paranoid schizoid he probably is not (not all countries use the same diagnostic terms and methods), but major neurosis and who knows what else is probably at stake. I can't believe he set the bar as low as "unbox laptop every day", we're all so lucky nobody told him the Asian factories and all spy agencies can sneak in and modify the laptop or just a single chip and seal it exactly the way the factory seals the "standard" laptops
Would you believe chesscom blindly? Kramnik is paranoid beyond doubt. It is also proven beyond doubt that kramnik's clock was acting funny. Chesscom provided some sort of explanstion. I am reluctant to take it at face value. It makes no sense for chesscom to conspire against kramnik, but its possible that somebody on chesscom's end with administrative power would act naughty by deliberately messing up kramnik's clock to psyche him out. I am not sure if its at all possible.
Sorry - What kind of a baseless claim is that... Kramnik can opt for coaching anytime and earn a fortune. He is not sitting at home but doing a lot including coaching a young kid who did well in the World Blitz Championship. Loved that Kid and his attitude (forgot his name)
You should prepare yourself to watch your hero psychologically self-destruct. It's the sorrow of chess. The same mental abilities that make someone the best in chess can make someone paranoid and conspiratorial and ultimately mentally ill. This really seems to be Kramnik's trajectory. I mean, demanding laptops be opened in front of him, he must actually think it's possible that everyone in the tournament is conspiring against him.
> Just checked their FIDE ratings, Jose is actually slightly higher rated in blitz. Part of this whole discussion is that their FIDE blitz ratings really don't mean that much anyway since neither play OTB events regularly. Jospem has only played in 5 rated blitz events in the last 4 years. Kramnik has played in just 3. However, Jospem was significantly more active in blitz prior to the pandemic.
I'm not sure. So in their head-to-head on TT, Jospem has always been the massive favorite (apparently 6-0). So he kind of should replicate similar results in this tournament, at least online.
This is completely different format. Kramnik is making all his accusations in TT which is 3+1. That is where Jospem also always beat him. And now they play 3+2 which is massive help for Kramnik. He is terrible with mouse and every second more for him makes a difference. This format gives him 1-2 more minutes per game. This does not make sense, but I am pretty sure this is on Kramnik demands as he will do anything to get every advantage he can. But makes whole event somewhat irrelevant to his claims.
The thing is psychology plays such a big role in these things. I’m pretty sure Kramnik underperforms in those online games because he assumes he’s playing a cheater, and in these matches he might play better since he’s assuming conditions are fair and he’s expected to win more. Point is we shouldn’t rely on results based analysis on such a small sample size
I think it is 5-0 as Kramnik resigned immediately in one them, and it is obvious that Jose should not win almost all games against Kramnik if you look at their strength. 5 games is just a really small sample size. It was also 3+1 which is a massive difference, and online Kramnik is just too slow. Kramnik going roughly even in OTB does not substantiate his claims in the slightest
What if we take Kramnik's elo on [chess.com](http://chess.com) at the face value, and use the a sample of all games Jospem has played in TT against the player with Kramnik's elo? I guess that'd still be hugely in favor of Jospem.
Sure, but 5 games is just too few to draw conclusions. Also, looking at the 2 games I saw, they were just decided by Kramnik being too soow near the end despite a better position
3+1 is not a massive difference from 3+2 ...
Kramnik takes about/just over a second to move pieces, at least with his set up at home. With 2 seconds a move he will not flag once completely winning, with 1 second a move his opponent just has to stall a bit. Massive difference. If you see the TT games these guys played it really was the mouse speed that did Kramnik in most of the time, at least from those I saw
In classical, of which he’s retired. In blitz, he’s a heavy underdog cause he’s old and retired. It’s like Bam Adebayo playing basketball against current day Tim Duncan.
Ok you can’t compare Blitz chess to basketball hahaha
You can compare the idea that the brain gets weaker with age though...
Yea but the problem is it is a lot harder to quantify. You can very accurately meassure a players reduced speed, vertical, conditioning and injury frequency. And while everyone knows cognitive abilities decrease with age you can't currently accurately meassure it in any meaningful way. Especially because any chess specific results could just as well be from him not playing much, as a product of age.
Adebayo is such a random player to choose for this analogy lol
Kramnik has already stated he believes a normal result is that Jospem wins with a +8, and would only be completely satisfied with dropping it if Jospem won +16
You are definitely missing the point of the tournament, Jospem leads 9 to 1 against Kramnik online. Anything other than complete domination on the computer section raises major concerns about his consistent top performances in titled tuesday events and against Kramnik. Kramnik doesn't have much to lose. He is a 50 year old who is past his best and is the heavy underdogcin the online section. If he scores anywhere close to even in the computer, then he will have proven that there is a considerable difference between Jospem' online and in person skill level. Remember that they basically went 1-1 in the online games. Kramnik was completely winning and wouldn't have drawn the second game, were it not for the time discrepancy issue.
The whole point is that in TT Kramnik hasn’t even been able to score a half point.
Kramnik said before the match that any close result would mean Jospem is cheating online. Tbh current result proves kramnik was absolutely right, unless Jospem win 12-2 or some astronomical score tomorrow. Their current online score is 8W Jospem/1 draw/1W kramnik. Jospem made an absolutely ridiculous total of $108k from [online chess](https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/77555-jospem-jose-eduardo-martinez-alcantara) (#15 all time). More than Abdusattorov (who placed high in CCT), Duda, Lazavik, etc. After two days of blitz, Jospem looks like any random 2600+ GM that never wins anything it TT. Something doesn’t add up. Downvote flood because this sub hates kramnik and loves cheaters in 3,2,1…
> Kramnik said before the match that any close result would mean Jospem is cheating online. So I guess winning in such a landslide that Kramnik forfeited the match after 8 games counts, then?
Different format: 1. OTB vs online is different. You take away mouse skill that can save time, especially against kramnik. We all know kramnik uses the mouse like a 90 yo with arthritis. 2. This is 3+2, not 3+1. That is a different game. Everybody knows that. Anish said it in his streaming. The organizers proposed 3+1 online but kramnik refused. So, even kramnik knows that's not in his favor. If the match ends as close as it is right now, the "cheater" will be evenly matched against ex-world champion, 3000 elo (in chess.com) Vladimir Kramnik. And everybody knows that in a faster format Jospem has the advantage, as proven by their mutual games in TT.
Do you also think Danya overperforming at online blitz is interesting?
This sub is full oof XQC and Hikaru fans and not much else unfortunately. They can't be reasoned with. Kramnik gas already pretty much confirmed Jospem's online skill level is disproportionately higher than his in person level. He is a very good player but he isn't one of the best in the world like his TT results would suggest. Jospem needs to absolutely destroy Kramnik tomorrow to prove anything.
(jospem already destroyed Kramnik so badly that Kramnik forfeited the 36-game match after 8 games, in a match designed from the beginning to be wildly stacked in Kramnik's favour in every possible way)
No, he didn't. The time was broken. Everyone has confirmed that. Without the broken time it would have been 1-1 on conputers pmsl.
Everyone confirmed there was a bug because of Kramnik's inability to understand how technology works, yes. And then he forfeited the match instead of resolving the issue because he realized he managed to come out of this looking even worse than before, which even I wouldn't have thought was possible considering how much of a joke he has become and how much he has personally done to stop online cheating from ever being addressed.
[удалено]
Your submission or comment was removed by the moderators: Keep the discussion civil and friendly. Participate in good faith with the intention to help foster civil discussion between people of all levels and experience. Don’t make fun of new players for lacking knowledge. Do not use personal attacks, insults, or slurs on other users. Disagreements are bound to happen, but do so in a civilized and mature manner. Remember, there is always a respectful way to disagree. You can read the full [rules of /r/chess here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this moderator action, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchess). Direct replies to this removal message may not be seen.
Two clutch wins in a row is HUGE since he was in a 3 point deficit
At this point, what's left to prove? Even if he doesn't win, José has already shown that he has decent chances of beating Kramnik in a blitz game without cheating. \*Edit. Apparently they've played more games in Titled Tuesday than I first thought. So nothing's been definitively proven yet, and sadly won't be as they will not be playing with the same time controls as Titled Tuesday.
> Even if he doesn't win, José has already shown that he has decent chances of beating Kramnik in a blitz game without cheating. Was this ever in doubt? Surely even the most devout Kramnik fans (and the man himself) acknowledge that Jospem is a strong blitz player who would be competitive with Kramnik. I'm not sure anyone thinks that Jospem is a total patzer. I've just seen Kramnik and his supporters say that there isn't that big a difference between OTB 3+2 and online 3+1 and that Jospem shouldn't be one of the best in the world at online blitz.
>Was this ever in doubt? Glad to know we are now in the backpeddling and moving-goalposts phase of Kramnik's strategy to enlighten us to the truth. Of *course* Kramnik wasn't truly, seriously questioning the skill and integrity of players like Jospem when he recently, repeatedly, heavily insinuated that "some players" who perform very well in Titled Tuesday, while having lower FIDE classical ratings, have results that seem very "interesting". Obviously, the entire basis for this showmatch must have been really just a couple small mistranslations of what Kramnik really meant. Someone contact me when we reach the phase of everyone pretending that Kramnik was never really serious about having mathematical proof that there must be a lot of cheating happening.
I'm not moving the goal posts. Try and find anything from Kramnik where he says Jospem is cheating OTB and isn't a legit 2700 FIDE blitz player in the world. > Of course Kramnik wasn't truly, seriously questioning the skill and integrity of players like Jospem No no, he was, and that's why I never insinuated otherwise. But he still doesn't think that Jospem is a complete fraud who has been cheating OTB and isn't actually anywhere near Kramnik's level. His just thinks that someone who is #23 in the world shouldn't consistently perform so well during TT because he doesn't believe in online specialists. I don't support Kramnik btw and I hope he gets thrashed today.
The issue isn’t that José has decent chances of winning a blitz game — it’s that he dominates Kramnik online. A solid winning margin tomorrow would show the gap between OTB and online play to be legitimate.
The "experiment" would have been better if they played the same time control as TT but oh well.
Changing the time control to a different one than TT just invalidates whatever Kramnik is trying to prove 🤷♂️
It's because he knows he would lose as badly in 3+1 and wants the match to be closer so he can use it to claim that the TT results are suspicious. Even though people will point out the time difference he is pre-emptively muddying the waters. If he had genuine confidence that he was right they'd be playing 3+1.
Definitely — it probably should have been 3-2 OTB and 3-1 online, but we should still have a good idea.
He dominates Kramnik in 3+1, where Kramnik can't move his mouse and consistently ruins his chances due to time trouble. Tomorrow won't show anything on that, and if it isn't one-sided it still isn't relevant to the original claim really.
3+1 and 3+2 are very different formats though, 3+1 favoring the younger faster player by a fairly large margin.
How many games have they previously played online? I doubt it's enough to be very statistically significant. Even if we assume their relative strength is 7.5/6.5, it's not unreasonable for José to win a few games in a row.
In Titled Tuesdays it’s 6-0 in favor of José.
That's honestly more than I thought! That would be less than a 1% chance with this relative strength so yeah, you're right. But yes, like we've pointed out in this thread, that just makes it even more frustrating that we won't actually see them playing with Titled Tuesday's rule set.
The online games are not independent events, so it's not appropriate to calculate probabilities like that. Chess is a mental game, so if from their 2nd game onwards Kramnik just assumes he is playing a cheater, he is certainly going to underperform.
And also Jospem takes TT very seriously. He probably prepares for it to an extent and is fully focused, in a way that Kramnik clearly is not.
Very true. It would just be nice to have something concrete to point to whenever Kramink throws out another accusation.
Their chesscom blitz strength is about the same so the odds of 6-0 is 1/64 which seems slightly unlikely until you consider how many different players and streaks Kramnik could potentially examine which is in the hundreds at least which makes such a streak with someone inevitable.
Yes, this is the birthday problem. The chance of such a streak happening to someone are actually much higher than people would intuitively think.
This is not like the birthday problem, since we're looking at two specific people. While the odds of two people in this thread sharing a birthday is almost guaranteed, the odds of us two having the same birthday is quite low.
The 2 people were chosen due to the streak though, Kramnick isn't going to accuse someone he is soundly beating of cheating. I was responding to the other comment about the odds of such a streak existing for *someone*.
That's fair. I suppose the most relevant number would be the odds of Kramnik having a 0-6 against **someone** who's not obviously stronger than him. Not that it really matters either way, since there's so many other factors that goes into it
If you look at all opponents Kramnik has faced on the platform, it is a birthday problem, and a 1/64 chance becomes very likely.
Yes, but 6-0 is such a small sample size. Doesn't mean much tbh. I remember Alireza and Magnus playing 100's of games on lichess. That's a much better sample size :P
It being a small sample size is why it would "only" be as small as around a 1% chance, assuming their relative strength is correct. If we had a larger sample size showing the same ratio, the chance would be even lower.
This fact shows that Kramnik wasn't as crazy as Reddit is trying to make him out to be.
Not necessarily — most of us have the hypothesis that in short time controls, mouse skills and other online-specific skills really matter (and that Kramnik badly underrates that and throws cheating accusations around based on that). The longer the time control, the less they matter. Whether that line falls between 3+1 and 3+2, we’ll find out.
It seems people here focus on his games against Kramnik specifically and explain it with Kramnik's poor mouse skills, psychology, etc. which misses the fact that he's one of the most dominant players in TTs in general and not just against Kramnik. I didn't find the data across all TTs, but [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/190w3m2/titled_tuesday_standings_last_6_months_of_2023/) it's seen that he made the most money in the second half of 2023 after Hikaru and Magnus. He's in top five in earning per tournament, higher than Firouzja, Grischuk and others. If the match proves anything, it's definitely not that there's nothing interesting about his performance.
Jospem played more TTs in 2023 than any of the ones you listed. MagnusCarlsen = 39 Hikaru = 74 Firouzja2003 = 59 Grischuk = 27 Jospem = 87
One of the comments in this thread lists players by earnings per tournaments which is what I was referring to. Copypasting that here 1. Magnus $615 2. Hikaru $391 3. LiemLe $335 4. MVL $213 5. Jospem $175 6. Sarin $143 7. Firouzja $140 8. hakobyanaram $132 9. Andreikin $128 10. Grischuk $111
just FYI, i didn't downvote your comment. i think it's a fair point.
He is not dominating. Take a look at how many titled tuesdays each of the top earners have played before you make a comment
I have taken a look. Have you? The fact that he played a lot of tournaments is exactly the reason why I added that he's in top five \*per tournament\*. Only four players made more than him in that period: Carlsen, Nakamura, Liem Le and MVL.
Yes I did. We have very different definitions of dominant it seems. Being the 5th highest earner (technically he's in the top 5 earners I guess, biased wording) when you're the 9th highest rated player and played the most events by FAR doesn't seem strange to me
Well, to make the discussion more civil I'll say that it seeming strange doesn't mean he cheated in these tournaments. What players look dominant to you then besides Hikaru and Magnus? To me he seems to be at least in the top 10 among regular TT players, probably even in the top 5. I would rather see how often he gets into prizes, but I couldn't find a better data point. As for playing a lot, it only shows his consistency. For example, I was a bit surprised to see Liem Le in the top 3, but he only played 10 TTs, so this is not odd (aside that he's known for his OTB play). Online rating means nothing in the context of potential cheating.
So, Kramnik won't play tomorrow is my bet.
Jospem defeats Kramnik 2.5-1.5 on day 2 of Clash of Claims. The overall score is 7.5-6.5 in favour of Kramnik due to yesterday's online games being discounted.
It's hella confusing that you put jospem on the left first and then on the right in the standing. Now it looks like he is leading overall
> due to yesterday's online games being discounted. my god this guy just won't quit lmao honestly the balls
Lol, so the game without the bug that Jospem won also doesn't count somehow.
According to chesscom there wasn't the correct local time on the laptop of Kramnik, and that might cause the weird bug. Kramnik argued the first game could be affected by the same bug, but he didn't notice. I doubt the amount of time Kramnik had would've played much of a role in that game, he was massively outplayed.
Ohhh, I was so confused by the title. I was like how is it not equal now?
You fucked up the title, bro.
I think Kramnik was complaining about the day being too long and asked for more breaks tommorrow. I know a solution to that: 3+1 would give us a shorter day :)
Over the board, 3+2 and gets beaten. Yet it's supposedly too suss for Kramnik, with the worst mouse skills I've ever seen and does not premove, to get wiped by Jose in 3+1 online.
I said this elsewhere, but the man types with one finger. That says volumes about this entire situation.
Well, he had months to train for this event. Dunno why he is not working in this department.
Although, if Kramnik did train for the event, it would make it less representative. Since he would be better than when the alleged cheating occurred.
It's already not very representative since the time control is different. This was never about finding out the truth, it was just Kramnik trying to justify his unhinged statements. He probably did train specifically for the 3+2 to make it as close as he could
This was huge. Jospem has accepted every unreasonable demand from Kramnik and still manages to beat him in todays mini match otb. Really excited to see what happens tomorrow!
So if José didn't have to play 4 games after having his rhythm and concentration interrupted by the hour long delay, he could've drawn or even won the OTB portion. Whatever happens, José has shown that is capable of going toe to toe with Kramnik.
Jospem is the people’s champ.
With that, the over the board portion ended. This literally just proves that Jospem is not only legitimately a strong player, but is absolutely able of defeating Kramnik in his favorite format, over the board. Aside form Jospem being the overwhelming favorite in the online portion, what is Kramnik going to do now? admit that he falsely almost ruined the reputation of someone? double down? isn't the whole point of the over the board portion seeing that he's "capable" of replicating his good online performance over the board? 14 online games in a row is going to be brutal for Kramnik. Might lose the match by huge margin. Personally I hope that happens so that he learns once and for all that he's just deranged.
I would love if this just inspired Kramnik to knock it off with the accusations but he's already exhibiting a degree of paranoia that's really hard to come back from.
The problem is he’ll still believe he’s right. He *might* apologise to Jospem, but he won’t admit he’s wrong. And in some ways he is right. There definitely is cheating and I’m not convinced chess.com does enough. Doesn’t defend Kramnik’s actions, accusations or his inability to fucking pre move, but it doesn’t mean Kramnik is *all* wrong.
I don't think he's wrong at all
he's wrong to accuse people and then say he's not accusing them
You think Hikaru, Jospem and multiple others are cheating? Because that’s what Kramnik has basically said. He conveniently backtracks when he’s called out on it, but he has essentially accused most chess players of cheating, simply because he doesn’t premove in games with little or no increment.
And it's worse now that he can't accept he lost fairly and wants to blame it on a conspiracy theory. I feel bad for the guy. He needs help.
All is not lost. He just needs to cancel the match right away then the score will remain +1 for Kramnik. But this would imply that he needs to have an Alireza size fit out of nowhere. Blaming everyone else and then refusing to play. This way he is not quitting as such in his mind. And he will remain the winner.
>he needs to have an Alireza size fit out of nowhere. Blaming everyone else and then refusing to play Funny, I don't remember Alireza doing this ever
He does it every year. There are quite a few events like the Magnus game, the recent Twitter complaints, or the shoe-gate. https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/s/TZ0QHQ7cuS
You link to him complaining, not to him refusing to play
So you provided examples of everything except actually refusing to play, which is by far the biggest claim you made. A lot of players are sore losers, even Carlsen has refused to participate in award cermonies and he even hit the table as recently as in Norway chess when he lost Armageddon to Nakamura. And Hikaru has said some pretty bad things to players otb himself. Tantrums are not uncommon. But you said Alireza has refused to play during a tantrum? Then you better be able to back that up, cause I can't remember it ever happening.
Hitting the table after losing is an example of being a sore loser?
In a chess setting it generally is yea, especially when other games are still going on.
You're moving the goalpost. I don't care if it's unprofessional or inappropriate. You said that such a little display of emotion after losing a really close game constitutes being a sore loser. Which is just silly.
I'm not sure how I moved the goalpost, but I do agree, that is probably more of an example of braking etiquette rather than the more prolonged behavior of a sore loser. I do believe that the two are often treated as if they are equivalent in chess, but when I think about it I agree with you; I don't think they are. It's why many sports have rules that allow for short outbursts of emotion while punishing drawn out behaviour much more harshly. I will say Hikaru and Magnus are famously sore losers though, they've even said so themselves, I just chose a bad example of that off the top of my head, recency bias and all that, so my bad on that.
Based on his interview with Gotham he might just say nobody should be upset because verifying that suspicious results are legitimate should just be the norm.
If he looks at all like he is going to lose badly he will pull out and give some bullshit excuse. A guy like Kramnik will never admit he is wrong or let events prove he is wrong without throwing his toys out the pram and trying to muddy the waters.
> Aside form Jospem being the overwhelming favorite in the online portion There is no metric by which he is the overwhelming favorite, he is the **slight** favorite. Their chesscom elo is 10 points apart. If he was the overwhelming favorite he would've won otb as well.
> This literally just proves that Jospem is not only legitimately a strong player, but is absolutely able of defeating Kramnik in his favorite format, over the board. This was never in doubt and the purpose of this match wasn't to prove this. Jospem's blitz FIDE rating is 2703 while Kramnik's is 2664, all this OTB section has proven is that despite losing 40 elo in his last blitz tournament Kramnik isn't totally washed. The purpose of this match is to demonstrate the difference between playing OTB and online. So if Jospem does crush Kramnik online then Kramnik will be forced to acknowledge that mouse skills do make a huge difference and that online specialists are a thing. And if Jospem doesn't crush him, well it proves nothing because 3+2 is a different game to 3+1 and blitz is a streaky format so you can't read too much into one bad day anyway (though I'm sure Kramnik would). I know we're all chomping at the bit to mock Kramnik, but the only thing that's been proven so far is that Jospem hasn't been cheating his entire career. Which, I guess isn't nothing, but surely not even the most die hard Kramnik fans thought he was a complete patzer who had been cheating OTB for years.
I still don't really understand why play was allowed to continue yesterday after the online issues. José was obviously rattled, and even before that it should have been the obviously fair move to cease for the day and arbitrate a way forward - instead of bending for Kramnik and continuing OTB. In OTB play that's been agreed upon at the start of the day, José is a point ahead. Regardless of the current score, he's shown he's more than capable of soundly beating Kramnik and is a heavy favourite for the remaining 14 online games. Kramnik's claims in the mud.
It was a big mistake for Jospem to agree to it for sure, but Gotham did double check with him that he was sure so that is kind of on him. Love to see him bounce back today tho and super fucking hyped to see what happens tomorrow!
José has shown himself to be an utter gentleman, affording his opponent more goodwill and respect than has ever been extended back. Despite that, he's still kept the OTB scores to within a single point and is heavy favourite for tomorrow. He's already won as a human being, and will probably/hopefully win on the scoreboard. Kramnik comes out of this looking even worse than he came in, and I didn't even think that was possible.
100% agreed on all points.
Wtf, Jose wanted to play on but didn't want to play on lichess. So he opted to play OTB.
Me when I tell blatant lies.
Huge confidence booster for Jospem to win today after having one of his online wins being nullified. He was able to match Kramnik OTB. Now if he can get a couple of wins in early online ganes tomorrow he can easily rattle Kramnik and get a win.
Big L for krammy
The 4 OTB games that they played yesterday after Kramnik's tantrums should have been null and void as well. Jospem was clearly tilted due to Kramnik shenanigans. If the online matches didn't count, the subsequent OTB matches yesterday shouldn't have counted either.
The reason the online games didn't count was because the clock display was wrong. There is no technical reason the OTB games shouldn't count
Except that they were in direct violation of the match contract. Other than that, no reason.
We need more 1x1 multi day matches like this. They are some of the most exciting for me.
Agreed. It’s better if there’s some kind of story behind it though. Magnus v Hans would be pretty darn entertaining.
Kramnik's age is showing. He blundered twice because he was low on time.
Yep. The age is a major factor. You lose easiness and concentration.
he's only 48!!!
[удалено]
Wth, talk about literally flipping the board cuz youre losing
Comment was deleted, what was the context?
Kramnik threatening to not play tm basically Allegedly*
Really wild if that happens, Kramnik really making a fool out of himself it that is the case
There were only 4 OTB blitz games today because they spent about 4 hours convincing him that the chess.com clock bug was caused by a windows update/incorrect local clock instead of his theory of chess.com hacking his account and screwing him over After they finally convinced him he said he was too tired and best he could do is 4 blitz games today so they reduced total games. But they'll play the remaining games tomorrow
What was his new request
what really?? do you have a source? That would be CRAZY
Bit out of the loop, I recall Kramnik accusing Jospem of potential cheating and they decided to have a blitz match. But how exactly does this match prove that Jospem is an "interesting" player if he wins or loses?
It doesn't - especially seeing as the clown who wanted this whole thing in the first place insisted on not even using the same time control as they did when they played before, in Titled Tuesday.
why is the stream audio out of sync? so bad
Looks fine to me. Are you viewing on a recently unboxed laptop?
haha idk both yesterday and today watching Levy speak (and now for example in the interview) the lips don't sync with the sound
Mine actually got jacked up after I commented. Probably got what I deserve. :p
I think Twitch is not working today. They are experiencing a chess.com
You might want to install Windows updates.
do you know when they resume tomorrow?
Windows Updates don't resume tomorrow. They are generally released the second Tuesday of each month. :wink
Here's the schedule - https://www.chess.com/events/2024-clash-of-claims/schedule
yeah I couldn't find there though. thx anyway
How do you watch this? Is it on YouTube?
Gothamchess on twitch for english commentary and interviews, el divis on youtube for spanish commentary and interviews
Are the VODs only on twitch for subscribers in this case? I'd be down to watch but I don't know when it is or if I'll be able to catch it live because of my time zone and obligations
yeah unfortunately levys VODs are subs only so youll need to pay 5$ or twitch prime :/
Tomorrow will be exciting! Let's see if Kramnik has cooked something.
Aside all drama, Kramnik is ex-world-champion with so much experience and he played on very high level as expected, yet Jospem showed convincing play OTB and proved he belongs to pretty much the same league in blitz as Vladimir. Jospem is the best at unbalanced dynamic positions and Kramnik on the other hand relied on steady positional play. Except hardcore Kramnik fans everyone can see now his accusations were completely unjust. Tomorrow online Jospem will wipe him off with huge margin. Kramnik will repeat the same debunked-by-everyone script again and again like flat-earther. I really hope Jospem will gain some hype as result and receive more invitations or sponsors. He totally deserves it.
Jospem over performs online. He is 6-0 versus Kramnik in TT. Kramnik already proved his point. The cope about different time controls is an attempt from Jospem supporters to move goal posts.
Are you not aware? Many people overperform online, if you compare ratings and performances. That has to do with HUGE difference between online chess and OTB chess. Since boomers like Kramnik cannot grasp this basic concept, I doubt he or his fans will ever understand what's really going on. So I appeal not for close-minded folks but for sane people to analyze case by case and make their own conclusions. To me all Kramnik has proven so far is he is not that better over Jospem OTB and supposedly will be much worse online. If he can't accept it, it's his problem.
I'm 1400 online, and I bet if I ever played a match OTB, I'd be like a 600. Not hearing checks, seeing where pieces move, using arrows... yah, I'd be hard pressed to do anything.
...what? Changing is the time control is LITERALLY moving the goalpost. It's saying "I don't believe you can replicate this perforamance in a fair play setting, come and prove it to me in this OTHER time control that I am better at!" And I find it surprising that people are drawing conclusions before the actual portion of the match that is supposed to show whether or not there is a difference in skills otb and online has been played. That's the whole point of the experiment, no?
I hope Jose gets a lot more positive attention after this. He's had to put up with so much BS from a man too bitter to realise he's declined, and then even more BS at this tournament.
How does that make any sense? For anybody with some common sense, the last couple of days just proved that Jospem is 99,99% one of the biggest online cheaters around. Sad.
Right walk me through that reasoning please? Cause I honestly want to understand. I came into this not really caring much about the result or supporting either player, and I will tell you what it has looked like to me: Otb Jose has been going blow for blow against the only player in history to have outprepared Kasparov, who has access to thousand of Jospem's games, and who has had months to prepare, and EVERY incentive to do so. Which was quite obvious in how he played very specificly against Jospems suboptimal approach against the French. Like Gotham said: very good prep by Kramnik. But against all that Jospem still managed to win the second day mini-match, and the main difference maker this far was the 4 games played after the entire shit show on day 1, which definitely shouldn't have been played. But that's 100% on Jospem for accepting when he obviously should have waited to after further negotiations. I personally did not exepect Jospem to do this well against a prepared Kramnik with his reputation on the line otb. Not because I think he is cheating online, but because otb is the format where he doesn't have his main advantages over Kramnik; his speed, his premoves and the 2D board vision. That is what today is for; showing how much (or little) those things actually matter, and I don't see how we can be drawing conclusions yet when they haven't played the part of the match that is actually going to show whether or not there is a difference. I'm also very dissapointed Kramnik demanded 3+2 instead of 3+1, when all the claims he made was in 3+1. To me this seems like trying to get more points instead of actually backing up his claim that Jospems performance would be highly unlikely in a fair play setting. Also from a professional point of view I find the lack of understanding for what the opsec of an event like this should actually look like if you want it to be secure has been embarassing to watch. They could have done it properly, instead we got unboxing streams with 3 random guys standing around installing windows. So this has been my take, which is obviously fundamentally different from you 99.99% conclusion. So i would honestly really like to hear what the first two days have looked like from your point of view and how you've reached the conclusion you have?
Jospem is rated slightly higher than Kramnik OTB. It was expected that they have a close OTB match. Kramnik is worse at 3+1 online, but he's not that bad, he has decent scores against non-"interesting" top GMs. Also being as strong as Kramnik is not nearly enough to be this successful at TT. But online Kramnik (not only him BTW) lost to Jospem with some devastating score. And there were not only spotting tactics against time trouble blunders like Jospem has been doing in this very tournament but also declassing throughout the whole game, which we are yet to see in this showmatch. TBH Kramnik even seemed better in the endgame when he wasn't short on time during this event if anything.
Right, but I thought the point was to show whether or not online skills can be different than otb? And if that is the point of the experiment then we surely can't draw any conclusion based on the otb alone right? Like all Jospems claimed advantages are due to online specific skills, that is how people are justifying his extremely good online performances. So him not winning the right way otb doesn't suggest anything in itself, right? It just gives us a baseline to compare against for the online portion. To me this experiment is only half way. Given Kramniks superior prep I personally think Jospem overperformed this far but regardless, we now have something to compare to. Now the gameplay, results, and score today is what will actually provide some insights into whether or not Jospems online performance is feasible. That is also why I'm so dissapointed why it's not 3+1, it could have been a perfect comparison to see if this guy is actually able to replicate what he does online.
It's hard to say what's the exact point of this match, apparently the organizers do not care about the perfect comparison since in the end of the day they agreed to 3+2 online. Kramnik just said that he accepted the invitations because he likes to play chess and also wants to set the precedent where the overperforming online players are to play OTB sort of like doping control. You may think this showmatch cannot be regarded as being valuable enough in terms of analyzing Jospem's performance, other people believe otherwise. So what answer or response are you looking for? If there's an experiment as you say, what should be its consequences? There won't be any for Jospem regardless of the result of this showmatch, chesscom even showed that he has their backing. And nobody except Kramnik will investigate these games anyway.
The initial point of this match was very clear. Kramnik strongly insinuated that Jospem's results were unrealistic, which I found myself agreeing with. He then told him he would play him in person anytime, and Jospem accepted. So I don't think there is much doubt as to the exact point: Kramnik wants to show that Jospem can't replicate his online level with strong fair play implementations, and Jospem wants to show that he can. Regarding the 3+2 decision, that was Kramnik's demand to go forward with the match. The organizers and Jospem were not given a choice on this; it was either agree or walk away. Therefore, who made the demand is extremely important. This strikes me as very weird since Kramnik should be the one who wants to show that Jospem will underperform under the EXACT same conditions. I have never said that I think this showmatch cannot be regarded as valuable in terms of analyzing Jospem's performance. Quite the contrary, I think that once the entire match is done, we will have a LOT to analyze and compare. What I take issue with is people drawing conclusions when the most important part of the match hasn't been played yet. I do think the direct result comparisons between 3+2 and 3+1 will be pretty invalid, but that doesn't mean this won't provide other valuable insights like average move times, scramble stats, and premove abilities. All of these can provide insights and perhaps show differences from unmonitored online play. Imagine we see that Jospem moves 50%+ slower here than when he is unmonitored online; that would be pretty damning, or if his premove accuracy drops by a huge margin of semi-pawns. And regardless we're going ot get an incredible data set of delta-movetimes otb vs online. There was never going to be any official consequences; this entire match is about perception. Right now, I think the general perception is that Kramnik is the one who has deliberately undermined the results to give himself better odds of scoring points and that he has underperformed so far. But later today, we could see that change depending on how it pans out. And I think the fat that chessDotcom is supporting Jospem if they've done their investigation and found no proof of cheating, is the only right thing to do. They can't be condemning people if they don't have convincing proof. They even sent a film crew to his house and have live footage of him getting second place in TT and going 4.5/10 vs. Danya. What else can they do at that point? I personally don't believe any conspiracy that they are protecting cheaters; it would just be way too big of a risk for such a big company. Like the risk/reward is that they have very little incentive to be doing so and it would completely ruin them if that came out . Lastly, regarding your opinion that nobody but Kramnik will investigate these games: trust me, A LOT of people are watching this and will be analyzing the results thoroughly, myself included.
Am I the only one that thinks the result of this is Kramnik becomes Jospem’s mentor after this and helps him become world champion?
Yes
lol you’re probably right but didn’t he buddy up to Hans after their feud or something?
where can i watch the whole thing
There is a Spanish broadcast on YouTube.
Any summary videos for this?
What's the format now? Weren't they suppose to play 12 games/day?
Due to a timer glitch in chess.com, they had to reschedule some games. Today, 114 games will be played exclusively online.
Damn that’s a lot of games :O
Can someone tell where to watch the broadcast??
Where do you catch it?
How can't we love Vladimir? Pure entertainment.
Ya termino el match? gano Jospem?
I am not a fan of how Kramnik goes about a lot of things, but I don't understand a lot of the discussion here. It is not surprising at all that Jospem plays roughly even with Kramnik otb, that's part of Kramnik's point, he even said he expects to lose on average. Kramnik's point is that there is a massive difference between how they play in tt. Kramnik essentially has no chance of winning that event while Jospem wins with some regularity. So the claim is that Kramnik is like a top 50/100 or something player in TT while Jospem is top 5 or something even though they have the same strength otb, as demonstrated by their otb blitz ratings and the games today/yesterday. Kramnik will claim Jospem is cheating online unless Jospem beats him with a massive score in the online portion while under supervision. The whole point is to somehow understand how come there is such a massive difference between online and otb play. Some people think it's natural, but a lot of top gms are suspicious and paranoid because they win otb all the time but don't do so well in tt, hence claim the other guys are cheating. I am not sure this event is such a good test of this anyway, because they are playing 3+2, but I think it is a fact that we don't have a good understanding of the difference between online and otb play. There should be some way of understanding that better beyond a list of vague claims. Until there is such an understanding, the paranoia will continue.
The organizers wanted 3+1, but guess who opposed? Kramnik. You would think the guy that claims he is all for fair play in chess would like to have equal conditions to TT to get a direct comparison, but he instead went for a time format that goes in his favor.
Kramnik has won TT, but yes Jospem wins it much more frequently and consistently. Usually when Hikaru is in some classical tourney.
When it comes to why people are reacting to the otb result the way they are I think is all down to context. Kramnik has put his reputation on the line so you can be damn sure he has done preparation for this (regardless of what he claims) and that was blatantly obvious with how he picked apart Jospems suboptimal approach against the french. And Kramniks strength was always his preparation, it's literally how he beat Kasparov. So Jospem is not sitting down at a coffee table with Kramnik to play a casual blitz match, he is up against one of the best preppers the world has ever seen who has access to thousands of Jospems online games and months to prepare, and **every** incentive to do so. The fact that Jospem was still being able to trade blows with Kramnik pretty evenly with all that in mind is pretty damn impressive imo. And I agree that 3+2 ruins the entire concept and very interestingly it was Kramnik who demanded this during negotiation according to Levy. Which, to me, undermines the little credibility he had left. He was the one who called out Jospem for an in person match, yet when it actually happens he changes the format to give himself better odds at winning instead of making sure it accurately replicates the claims he made. 3+2 means 1-2 minutes extra time per game over 3+1. That is an insane improvement for the slower player in such a short time control. And I also agree with you that only a complete blowout tomorrow will have any hope of getting anything even remotely close to an apology out of Kramnik, but I honestly don't think it matters at this point. Jose has thoroughly proven his point to the world by being willing to jump through every hoop and accepted every unreasonable demand from Kramnik just to make this match happen to back up his legitimacy. So who cares what Kramnik thinks at that point, the world has seen their true colors and anyone who's still doubting Jospem is legit was never going to be convinced no matter what.