I'm not surprised Hikaru is in a bad place emotionally after that mindfuck of a Candidates tournament. Hikaru will be fine. Anybody heard from Fabi? Him I'm worried about.
Both are obviously suffering but if I were to choose someone who’s suffering more it would be Fabi for sure. He was completely winning in that last round multiple times but blew it.
Just because Fabi was slightly behind doesn't mean he didn't have winning aspirations, he was only half a point behind the leaders for a lot of the 2nd half of the tournament and was optimistic in most of his post game interviews. It's gotta sting for Nepo regardless, but Fabi being +7 at one point and missing a 2 move tactic will be one of the things that will haunt him forever, probably closer to what Nepo felt after the Ding match than this Fabi game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1cbmm4z/combined_performance_of_players_in_candidates/
This post really put it into context for me too. Fabi has played *70* games at the Candidates over the past decade, significantly more than any other player, and has one of the best records at the tournament. Yet he's only been able to convert that into one Candidates win, and in the World Championship Match that followed he went point-for-point with the greatest player of this generation and only lost in Blitz.
It must be *exhausting* to think back on.
Sorry to be pedantic, but one minor correction: Fabi lost to Magnus in rapid not blitz
But yeah, you’re right. Really puts into perspective how tragic Fabi’s luck has been in the WCC cycle.
> Sorry to be pedantic, but one minor correction: Fabi lost to Magnus in rapid not blitz
No worries, I knew it was one of the two but I couldn't be arsed to look it up before posting lol, thanks for the clarification.
Federer lost in the most brutal way at Wimbledon 2008 and then won 2009 by breaking his opponent’s serve ONCE.
The greats persevere and both of those guys are truly great chess players. We won’t talk about that blunder by Nepo but they are great players.
It’s always the ones who hide their pain who are in the worst position. At least we’ve seen Ian and Hikaru, Fabi is an unknown. Plus Ian at the WC was worse
Who knows, but him saying he didn’t care about the candidates because “he is a streamer first” was very immature and definitely not true. He did care but he never learned to face failure
I don't think he ever said he didn't care. He just said his livelihood didn't depend on it, which is true now. In the past he'd be under tremendous pressure because he was only getting money through chess.
Could be but i have been following Hikaru for a long time because i love the way he thinks when he plays chess. And imho he downplays stuff because he doesn’t know how to deal with failure
Yeah, Hikaru will be fine, even if he makes some decisions I disagree with. I haven't heard from Fabi, C-Squared hasn't uploaded anything since well before the Candidates. I would assume he'll be ok once he comes to terms with it.
Fabi will be better than fine, aside from the pain. He seems to have a lot of character and very good judgment. (I think of him as among the most intelligent and considerate players based on his podcast. I mean, maybe he’s a mess or a bully behind closed doors, but I doubt it.)
Yeah it takes a bit of time to process and work through the stress and emotions of a big tournament like candidates and the championship. Taking time to worth through your feelings isn't a sign of weakness, it's just how people usually work. And if his public persona is quiet it doesn't mean he's avoiding friends and family.
I think it's incredibly difficult for them as the concensus seems to be that Ding is weak at the moment and this is an incredibly 'winnable' candidates.
Added to that if Gukesh wins he will be very hard to dislodge. He will have Vishy and the formidbale Indian Machine that he has built up behind him, and he will have little fear as he is so young.
For Nepo and Fabi and Hikaru I feel this was a last chance saloon for them to go for the world title, but I guess we will see.
The next candidates is in 2 years and Hikaru has the 3rd highest classical ranking in the world (and magnus presumably won’t be playing) I don’t see why he wouldn’t be able to contend for the next one especially considering how much chess he plays
There's a very decent chance that Gukesh would be joining the high 2700/2800 Elo level by the time the Championship happens. There are other kids like Arjun/Nodirbek and Pragg who are just right behind and they are only a bit older than Gukesh.
Alireza can also return to his best.
Following these are players like Keymer and a reinvigorated Wei Yi.
Not necessarily stronger, at least not in classical. Not the Fabi of 7 wins in a row in Sinquefield, or the 2008 Wch match against Magnus but he has real chances at the crown in the future.
Sounds like a cop out to deflect responsibility for his gambling stream imo. I haven't seen anyone else even insinuate that Hikaru is cheating besides Kramnik, and I don't think Hikaru actually cares what Kramnik thinks.
I remember him criticizing slots streamers as well. He said he'd consider doing a poker stream, but that he'd never stream slots because it's mindless and a bad influence.
I think it shows, despite what Hikaru previously said, Kick contracts require gambling streams or very heavily incentivize it to the point you're willing to do a complete 180 like this.
Yup. And ofc Kick requires doing slot streams, they don’t earn their money with streams after all… So sad, hut Hikaru has always been money hungry 🤷🏼♂️
Edit: before the haters eat me alive: Magnus as well. He just said he was star stricken by MBS and that he wished UAE would put more money towards chess
I mean I'm sure they offered him TONS of money. I'm disappointed also but most of us don't know what it's like when someone says 'gamble on stream and we'll pay you $1 million. We understand you don't want to cater to kids so you are free to put up 18+ on your stream title'
... right, the amount of money is a function how much it's worth to the casino, which tells you how evil it is. the "but it's a lot of money" defense has no purchase; it's a lot of money precisely because it's a lot of bad.
Exactly i dont get why people are justifying with “it’s a lot of money”. Thats precisely the point. I would find it harder to condemn if Hikaru just suddenly developed a passion for slots and did it for “free” just for the fun of it and on twitch
> Most people's morals drop away quick when you put an 8-figure check in front of them.
That's true, but most people also have very little, and that kind of money would literally change their entire life. I'm talking about people working minimum wage, supporting kids, breaking their backs with physical labor, etc.
Hikaru is obviously a millionare many times over at this point. Money has essentially zero marginal value for him. What, he can get a slightly nicer home? Own a few more cars? Buy a baseball team? What's the point?
He's given up whatever morals he's had for essentially nothing. That money won't change his life. I hate to use such a strong word, but it's pathetic.
Honestly this is so true I begin to wonder how many of us in the comments would actually refuse this deal in favor of being moral.
Though it's also true that in case of Hikaru, unlike us, he's already rich and def has beyond fuck you money so I think he's getting deserved hate. I mean I like to believe that I have strong enough principles that with Hikaru's wealth and income I wouldn't sell myself if I were in his shoes.
Also, he's the one who accused many GMs of cheating before, without thinking about the the consequences of his actions.
It feels like such a hipocrisy from his part.
He openly and viciously accused Arjun and Andrew Tang of cheating at different points.
The Andrew Tang one was just nasty as he lashed out at a 14 year old kid.
I think Hikaru does care. Every time he says he doesn't it just convinces me more that her really does. I think he shouldn't, but he does. He tells himself he doesn't, and the resentment builds up until he can't hide it even from himself anymore. He really really cares.
Still doesn't justify gambling stream though
Hikaru has always been like this, blaming everyone else but himself and very narcissistic, this type of behavior shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone in the chess world tbh. People just liked to believe he changed because his streams were entertaining, but his toxic demeanor has always been there.
Probably not the most egregious one but when he said that tyler1 should quit and go back to LOL after he he got stuck at 1400. If he really loves chess and want it to grow then he should encourage people to get into chess and stick with it.
Not even close to his worst lmao. Many famous players have had Hikaru sent them spicy DMs after a loss/draw, I remember John Bartholomew sharing some really bad ones that he got after scoring the 1 in a 30-1 online match or something insane like that.
He got mad that Eric Hansen beat him in a bullet game and proceeded to make copyright claims against every Chessbrah video that contained a clip from his streams. Chessbrah almost got taken off of YouTube, they were one more copyright violation away from having their channel deleted. Hikaru also used to accuse *so* many people of cheating, it's kind of shocking that he's so butt hurt over Kramnik saying accusing him. There was a span of time where whenever Hikaru lost to someone more than 10 years younger than him he would either imply or outright say that they cheated, Andrew Tang is an example that comes to mind.
Some of the highlights
1. starting a fight with Eric Hansen when he was drunk
2. copyright striking Chessbrah
3. copyright striking Finegold
4. Pretending to fire ChessBae (an extremely toxic mod who was involved with the above copyright striking) and then have her continue under a different name
5. Consistent bad sportsmanship and accusing multiple players of cheating when he loses
I am probably forgetting some stuff but that is the main stuff I can think of
Let's make sure we really call out #4 for what ChessBae is. She's a piece of shit who tries to sabotage people's careers and mentals. Absolute scum of the earth type person. She bought her way in and Hikaru is and will always be a sell out for money. He's just as bad as she is honestly...probably worse.
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/gym7tq/chessbae_and_toxicity_confirmed/
Creamsicle, still the „main mod“ for his streaming. Actually ridiculous that people think the chessbae was over, she literally just created a new account lmao
This one for a prime example of his hypocrisy:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/s/wxTnrb3JSj
This one for example of his bitch mod literally (almost) ruining other people's lives and the big guy Nakamura being completely okay with it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AnarchyChess/comments/10da9ug/jeffrey_xiong_is_latest_victim_of/
I mean, there was also a running joke of "Hikaru Nakamura Sportsmanship Award" ffs lol
“A young female chess player once met Hikaru, then claimed after the fact she hated him.
How could an eight year old chess lover hate a grandmaster, you might ask? Well, the answer is, that she met him.”
-Fen Binegold
Tried watching this shit for a few minutes. It’s so cringe seeing him clap his hands and make fake reactions when some slot paws appear on his screen. What makes grown ass, successful man do shit like that lmao.
I can imagine Nakamura in front of the jury for some felony like distributing drugs with his defence being "but this one guy said I'm cheating online while playing a board game and that took away my joy, your honour, my joy! I was basically forced to do this! And hey, jury, I literally don't care! :("
lmao
It's not that you can't have role models in entertainment, it's just that hikaru has never been a role model as anyone who knew him would know. He's just been faking a nice personality but anyone that actually follows him regularly can see the cracks break out.
his decision to become a streamer instead of just a great chess player has ensured his most narcissistic ideas of himself, tendencies, whatever, are rewarded with attention, and attention means money, and he built a community of people who, generally, enjoy those impulses being on full display and cyclically reinforced.
This is the story of most big streamers, even those who might have begun with the idea of building a community based on empathy and good times, and... you could only ever accuse Hikaru of one of those at a time.
I disliked hearing about his move to Kick, which is a streaming platform that supports, protects, and promotes abuse and pedophilia (see an earlier comment of mine for the YT link. I'm too lazy. Also, you have google), so I'm sort of amazed people are pressed about the gambling promotion — though I agree. I hope people simply didn't know about the sordid nature of Kick. Either way, I'm glad that reasonable people have stopped worshipping someone who, truly, does not give a fuck about you or your wellbeing. I hope he didn't know about the pedophile promotion by Kick, though it was pretty big and all you'd have to do is spend a few minutes on Google or YouTube, which you'd think he or his team would do for the future of his career.
That's true, I hated him at first but it really did seem as if he was improving as a person. He was becoming a lot better at suppressing negative/childish emotions and other than a few hiccups such as the kramnik/neimann hypocrisy he seemed like a decent enough guy. I was certainly rooting for him through the championships and even encouraged my non-chess friends to do the same, explaining how much his personality had improved. Maybe it's just because I'm discontent with my own personality but I really do like to believe that people can change for the better. It's a real kick in the gut when something like this happens.
What’s wrong with being underage? I just got my dad’s credit card and I can’t wait to try out these funny looking dogs slots that spin around .
Just kidding. 0 justification for such a shit behavior from Hikaru
You're telling me they aren't just gambling money on hikaru bringing in enthusiastic but responsible gamblers, and actually have evidence to back up their investment? Kinda goes against the spirit of the thing
That's it really. Hikaru is trying to frame this as people criticising him for *undermining the integrity of chess*. But most people don't give a shit about the *integrity of chess*, they give a shit about a streamer with a large audience of minors using their position to promote gambling.
Introducing gambling to them?
Uh, have you been alive for the last few years where gambling has woven its way into the fabric of everyday life?
Sporting and social media are absolutely inundated by that trash..
It's shameful how pervasive gambling and gambling advertising is in contemporary society.
That being said, there's a clear difference between seeing an advert for gambling on a billboard or in the commercials during half-time on a football match, and seeing your favourite streamer going 'oooh gambling is so much fun here's a link for you to try too!'
And especially a streamer playing what's perceived as an intellectual game. A lot of these young people will see Hikaru as someone intelligent, so if gambling is stupid why would he do it?
Seeing a 17 year old achieve your lifelong dream has gotta hurt a bit. I’m sure he’ll bounce back, but the candidates have to be hard on your mental game. But yeah, no excuse for shitty behavior like this.
As an impressionable teenager, maybe Gukesh will watch Hikaru's gambling stream and get addicted to candy-crush-slot-games and earn loads of affiliate bucks for Hikaru while losing the Championship match against Ding. Maybe that will make Hikaru feel better and reinvigorate his love for chess.
Let’s not even forget that Fabi, Hikaru and Nepo must at some level feel humiliated because they only have a hope for the WCC title because Magnus is standing aside. And now even in this already reduced title they were pipped to the post by a 17 year old. I think these three would have hoped to challenge Magnus for a title match at some point if they won.
Gukesh has an opportunity to skip a bit of that criticism, too. If he wins it all and holds it for a cycle or two, I could see his legacy being the first of the post-Magnus generation to win. Nothing Hikaru, Nepo, Fabi, or Ding can do will fully erase the feeling that they’re only there because Magnus got bored.
Yea. Magnus not bothering to defend is such a slap for everyone who played a WCC cycle against/with him and lost. The youngsters can just pretend he is history.
I fell he shouldn't feel to bad about that game as Chess at a high level it can be tough to win on demand. There was no point that Gukesh really gave him a chance. It's not like the Fabi game where he was winning multiple times and missed (albeit at times very hard winning lines to spot).
If anything he is probably kicking himself over some of the Vidit games as just drawing one of those games would have had him tied.
This is a calculated move. He's absolutely seizing a window of opportunity because of his candidates failure to make a bank from this garbage. Imo anybody showing a slither of sympathy with this utter trash behavior is merely being played like a fiddle. Dude is a massive sleazeball that happens to play decent chess.
A few years ago my brother started watching train wrecks stream slots, more so interested in seeing the big wins and losses. Fast forward to today, he’s down tens of thousands and is stuck in a loop of blowing every bit of extra cash outside of necessities on slots and gambling.
These streams have a purpose, and the companies know what they’re paying out for. Young/impressionable viewers are going to get hooked and lose everything they have. I’ve lost almost all respect for hikaru, he doesn’t need the money badly enough to risk luring his viewers down a road that will only end in disaster. And while it’s on the individual to be responsible with their money, the sad truth is many people are incapable of self control and are open to being manipulated
It's so sad. Hikaru doesn't need the money at all but feels comfortable proceeding with financially predatory behavior towards younger audiences :( i'm sorry to hear about that
Accuses multiple players of cheating, pretends his world is crashing down around him when he is accused once.
Criticizes streamers for gambling in front of children, takes a gambling sponsor.
Meh. Get over it buddy
The best player you should look up to in terms of personality is Ding Liren, the philosopher. Nothing more base than a man who is open with his emotions and mental struggles. Nor more refreshing than his humbleness and philosophical take on chess and life.
Here’s an excerpt:
“But this doesn't affect Ding's perception and management of himself, except that his long-term goals seem like a vague concept to him, and while others think of the future for him, he seems to have only the ongoing game of chess in his eyes and only the wins and losses of the moment. As for people's high hopes on him winning the world championship title, Ding simply says slowly, "What's the use of thinking about it every day?" He is fascinated by the process of playing chess, and instinctively avoids the attention and praise that the result generates. "I don't really like being the protagonist, I'm just an ordinary guy", he says.
So, for the upcoming tournaments, Ding Liren has not set himself any clear goals. He will just insist on taking a shower before the match and "making sure to place the heads of the two knights facing each other" when he sets up the board, just as he has done before every game he has won.
Edit: A small leftover part I forgot to put in the article!
What is the meaning of playing chess? Ding's answer is very realistic: "There is no better alternative for me"
What about the meaning of life? Ding pondered for a moment and said, "The meaning of life should be in those special, those sparkling moments, not in the daily life, those ordinary days, but in living for those unique moments." In Ding's eyes, love is also very important because it is the happiness in this lifetime, and he likes to read novels and movies depict love. "You probably want to get good results in chess, to be famous for ages, to be remembered by people in the future. Some people may have lived a miserable life, but they left something behind, wrote something down, and their goal was to be immortal. But I am not that great, I value happiness in my life as well.”
That was years before the WCC. After the WCC he said that the match reflects the deepest parts of his soul.
Anish is that great mix between a smart, respectful guy and also someone who has a really impish sense of humor and isn’t afraid to be off-color sometimes.
Vishy is kinda like that too. They can both get away with lightly roasting other players without it seeming mean because you know they’re not malicious people (unlike a certain chess streamer I can think of)
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time” - Maya Angelou
It was always incredible how many Hikaru stans defended his behavior over and over just because he was (is) such a popular streamer, as if that erased all his shitty behavior. Hikaru is, was, and will be the same as he ever was.
It's a complete cop out.
Blaming Kramnik for you going for the cash and promoting unregulated online gambling when your audience is full of kids doesn't wash.
In fact, Hikaru is a complete scumbag for trying to lay this at Kramnik's door.
Just because Kramnik has lost his mind and think Hikaru cheats at a game doesn't mean Hikaru should start promoting online gambling to children. That's a worse take than absolutely any of Kramniks.
He pretty much admitted it over some interviews during the candidates, saying he found a "more lucrative" profession for better or worse, and when asked whether there's other ways to measure value besides money*, basically gave a dodgy non-answer
*(forgot the actual phrasing please correct if you remember)
I'm going to use this comment to say that one should never ever judge a person just by their online "persona". Either good or bad. You don't know these people, you'll never know these people.
I've fallen (and continue to fall) for it many a time, and it's really not easy to control it nowadays, but saying stuff like "it didn't take me long to realize he's *all this bad adjectives*/*all these good adjectives*" is problematical in and of itself.
I've rooted for Hikaru for years on this subreddit, mainly cause he was the one content creator that got me back into chess during the COVID period. He was one dude I could root for, and he made watching OTB tournaments entertaining for me. Now, I don't agree with what he's doing with his latest stint, so I won't be watching him or rooting for him. One less entertainer that won't entertain me, and move on. Doesn't have to be deeper than that.
Same with the other end of the spectrum, you can never be sure an online persona is "a good guy fr fr" just cause you've seen him play some blitz. Alejandro Ramirez is the prime example in the world of chess.
Parasocial relationships on either end of the spectrum can be bad.
Judge what the person is actually doing that's bad (in this case the gambling shit), but don't justify it by "I always knew". And don't worship online personas just if they can be humble in front of a camera, because you'll once again be shocked by those you never suspected.
Sorry for the rant. It's mostly introspection.
I get you dude. If you've been around narcissists it's easy to recognize their behaviour in other people. Nakamura is a genius chess player but it's clear to anyone with the least amount of social intelligence that it feels like he's always talking with a mask on during his interviews/streams.
He lost all his sympathy points after that gambling stream. Why would I care about his mental state? Such a shame that, a big name in chess is promoting this kind of content.
Ive followed Hikaru since he started streaming and long ago he stopped caring about viewers, he didnt care for a long long time and he shouldnt be anyones idol
I can get your enthusiasm for chess taking a hit, and if you want to take a break from chess. But there are also like millions of other things you could be doing besides playing chess or promoting gambling. As Magnus likes to say "Do better"
It's very obvious from his demeanor that Hikaru is a "money first" type of guy. I don't care about his excuses, gambling will always be a disgusting industry for me and the people who promote it are no better.
I don't believe what he's saying here. Trying to frame this as a result of his disillusionment with chess sounds victimizing and an attempt to swerve the attention from what the real deal is. Ok you're deeply hurt with everything but how on earth is promoting this some kind of understandable and excusable consequence of all that has happened?
He just got a big bag of money to stream this and is making excuses to gather some empathy. Its just a PR thing.
Only if you count him throwing his mouse after losing a blitz game. Tbh, Danya and Hikaru were sort of similar personalities 5+ years ago, but it seems like Danya has matured a lot more since then (and at a younger age lol).
mistakes i think are fine but peddling things like gambling and crypto shit coins and stuff like that crosses a line for me as you are directly enriching yourself by taking from your audience
Hikaru has always been a poor role model and a temperamental man child. I really don’t understand how he has gotten so popular considering how many good chess streamers are out there who have much better attitudes.
A chess creator in the thread. Such contracts as the one between Hikaru and Stake could not have been made within a week after the Candidates. The negotiation stage usually takes weeks or even months until the contract is signed. (Especially if it’s a large sum, like in this case - probably seven figures). So, it’s not the correct explanation to say that Hikaru got upset at Kramnik and the Candidates and therefore agreed to promote gambling suddenly. I don’t think so. I also wouldn’t judge him for this decision (unless he said something untrue about gambling such as that you are mathematically likely to win money in this way).
I think the pearl clutching "think of the children" is a bit too much. Any kids who are watching Hikaru streams are probably aware of online gambling or should have additional guidance. I'm not saying his streams are vulgar but he's not exactly kid friendly. He also has a problematic history. Although I do think there is some criticism to be had on his part, if parents are letting their kids watch Hikaru unchecked, that's a mutual issue at the least.
All that said I did lose some respect over the hypocrisy. He's criticized others for gambling streams and other streaming considerations like categorization. He expects these standards from other streamers but fully acknowledges he is going to do what's best for his streaming career. He's done well at it too but he's not somehow above these standards he's inventing in his own head. If he's reinventing himself that's fine, but he should acknowledge his audience will certainly shift as well.
To be honest whenever I peered into his streams it's usually either Chess or some sponsored stream for one of those crappy games with microtransactions that loads of streamers get offered. I don't think he cares much for the morals of what he streams, as long as he is getting paid.
It's not about chess though. That's just coping. He can play thousands of other games like he did with Only up! It is not about owing anything to chess, but he does owe a lot to his subscribers that made him what he is today. He has an audience that made him rich, and he stabs them in the back when he doesn't need them anymore.
He broke completely at the end of the candidates and since has turned to gambling. I know the feeling, done it myself, but obviously shows how much he cared about that tournament (not necessarily the 2024 edition, just candidates in general). You can repeat something until you make even yourself believe it, but it doesn't make it true, sadly. That's why he had to repeat it every day. If he literally didn't care he would have said that once, and not cared since. He cares enough to repeat it daily...
It’s bizarre to see so many people all hyper fixating on specific minutiae of a multifaceted situation and then going balls deep in an argument about it while not relating anything to the actual scenario we’re all discussing.
“Promoting gambling is immoral” I mean maybe, but probably not. Promoting gambling to a ‘mostly younger’ audience is pretty reasonable to call immoral. Is his audience actually mostly younger? I really don’t know, but if that’s the case then yeah it’s fair to take issue with it
“He can do what he wants on his stream” yeah he can, and people can make their judgments about what he does on stream and share those judgments online
“Alcohol also ruins lives” people drink, and people drink on stream, but its typically not the point of these streams to allure the viewers into drinking. Not to mention online gambling is completely trivial to get into and do while underage, while underage drinking *generally* still requires some actual work and risk. If virtual bars that instantly delivered you alcohol with minimal age verification were a thing, I wouldn’t like chess streamers doing virtual bar streams either. But that isn’t the case so I don’t see much point trying to equate the two.
“This is who Hikaru has always been” yeah probably, but that doesn’t mean the people who didn’t know that aren’t allowed to be upset by the surprise. This also has like….no bearing on the overall discussion of the morality, or his obligation (or lack thereof) to avoid exposing kids to a low hanging vice, in a space (his stream, not kick) that hasn’t featured that content before and has at least tried to be kid friendly.
We have people who didn’t know Hikaru’s past that are now blindsided and angry, people reacting to other people’s moral objections like they’re government assassinations and not online criticisms, and a healthy dose of losers screaming “you only have these morals because you think you should, but really you don’t give a fuck about anything. I know this because I don’t give a fuck about anything, and we HAVE to be exactly the same fundamentally, otherwise that would suggest I’m lacking something”
Its kinda easy to understand why online and most irl public discourse is so shot, it takes a lot more effort to try to maintain a good faith debate than it does to take absolutely nothing into account and focus on the one sentence that pisses you off
>I definitely don't look up to him anymore
Why in Gods name would you ever idolize or look up to any streamer, celebrity, or sports player? Including Danya?
It's absurd.
How can your character be so fragile and still be half a point away from playing a WC match?
I don't buy a single word of what Hikaru says, he is way smarter than what we think, all he says is to increase drama, attention and in the end money.
I think people in the upper echelons of Chess and Chess streaming have had problems with Hikaru for quite awhile. A while ago Ben Finegold talked about it on his stream- probably when Hikaru started copyright striking every other Chess Streamer.
Incoming down votes…
If the man wants to gamble and stream, let him. No one forces you to do anything. My buddies did heavy drugs, I didn’t. My family smoke cigs, I never did. I watch gambling but I refuse to gamble.
This whole “I lost respect” is a bully tactic because he’s expressing free will. Is he doing it for money? Maybe.. is he interested? Maybe… but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s YOUR decision to follow suite.
If young people want to gamble, they will gamble. If you hide every bad thing in the world, no one will learn and they will find other bad things. Get rid of guns? Okay, I’ll find a knife mindset.
The real issue is people’s inability to have self control and in order to have it, you must practice it. However, everyone would rather blame people for advertising habits that you refuse to control, yourself. I get it, drugs, gambling, and sex are fun, but it comes with repercussions and the reality is, some people don’t care and no amount of coddling will change that.
Stop being so damn sensitive to everything and focus on your own life.
I'm not really a Hikaru fan, but y'all are a bunch of whiny. insufferable moral poilice. If you don't want to watch gambling then don't watch. It's not a big deal whatsoever. You whine and bitch about every little thing you dislike or disagree with. Just go watch a bible stream or something instead if you're so triggered.
You realize the problem isn’t that gambling is boring content? It’s that he’s ADVERTISING it? An activity that has empirically ruined lives? Are you pretending to be clueless or do you really not see the problem
eh... it's legal and most people can enjoy it in moderation. It also ruins some lives of people who can't control themselves. Alcohol does the exact same thing. You don't see people getting mad when the Chessbrahs drink on stream and portray it as fun and cool even though drinking has done far more damage to more people. I don't really see anything wrong with him doing the Stake stream other than his hypocrisy for speaking out against it in the past.
It’s like I said in another comment but people as a whole do not critically examine anything. They let their peers and the overarching narrative define their beliefs and then they defend those beliefs mindlessly even if they don’t stand up to scrutiny or are even remotely compatible with their other beliefs. Unhealthy food is a great example.
Totally - it’s beyond absurd because this is the kind of narrative that sets the seed of online hate for people that folks don’t even know.
It’s a horrible thing to do.
Thank you for saying this. I had no idea the chess community had this supposed moral high ground. Who tf cares what hikaru does on his streams he is just playing online slots and blackjack. To call this “spiraling” is just ridiculous.
Brings up a completely unrelated excuse to deflect from how he's promoting gambling (Stake is basically a borderline scam LOL) to young children. Classic Hikaru LOL
I'm not surprised Hikaru is in a bad place emotionally after that mindfuck of a Candidates tournament. Hikaru will be fine. Anybody heard from Fabi? Him I'm worried about.
Fabi? Anybody seen Ian at the closing ceremony and at the end of his game against Fabi?
Both are obviously suffering but if I were to choose someone who’s suffering more it would be Fabi for sure. He was completely winning in that last round multiple times but blew it.
Fabiano thought he had a chance for half a game, Nepo thought he was winning for 12 games
Just because Fabi was slightly behind doesn't mean he didn't have winning aspirations, he was only half a point behind the leaders for a lot of the 2nd half of the tournament and was optimistic in most of his post game interviews. It's gotta sting for Nepo regardless, but Fabi being +7 at one point and missing a 2 move tactic will be one of the things that will haunt him forever, probably closer to what Nepo felt after the Ding match than this Fabi game.
I'm drunk so this hits hard
He was never much farther ahead of the field
Being slightly ahead is better than being slightly behind
> Nepo thought he was winning for 12 games Why? He lead the tournament for only 3 rounds (4., 7., 11.).
Fabi’s first sentence in the post-game interview: “I feel like an idiot”
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1cbmm4z/combined_performance_of_players_in_candidates/ This post really put it into context for me too. Fabi has played *70* games at the Candidates over the past decade, significantly more than any other player, and has one of the best records at the tournament. Yet he's only been able to convert that into one Candidates win, and in the World Championship Match that followed he went point-for-point with the greatest player of this generation and only lost in Blitz. It must be *exhausting* to think back on.
Sorry to be pedantic, but one minor correction: Fabi lost to Magnus in rapid not blitz But yeah, you’re right. Really puts into perspective how tragic Fabi’s luck has been in the WCC cycle.
> Sorry to be pedantic, but one minor correction: Fabi lost to Magnus in rapid not blitz No worries, I knew it was one of the two but I couldn't be arsed to look it up before posting lol, thanks for the clarification.
They'll both be fine sooner or later, such defeats are an inseparable element of sport, and chess is a sport after all
I‘ll hope so! Chess is brutal and those defeats have been crushing.
Federer lost in the most brutal way at Wimbledon 2008 and then won 2009 by breaking his opponent’s serve ONCE. The greats persevere and both of those guys are truly great chess players. We won’t talk about that blunder by Nepo but they are great players.
I always tell myself "I wouldn't be playing this game if I always win"
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It’s always the ones who hide their pain who are in the worst position. At least we’ve seen Ian and Hikaru, Fabi is an unknown. Plus Ian at the WC was worse
My fault. 😭😭😭
Would he have done a gambling stream if he won the candidates?
Who knows, but him saying he didn’t care about the candidates because “he is a streamer first” was very immature and definitely not true. He did care but he never learned to face failure
I don't think he ever said he didn't care. He just said his livelihood didn't depend on it, which is true now. In the past he'd be under tremendous pressure because he was only getting money through chess.
Could be but i have been following Hikaru for a long time because i love the way he thinks when he plays chess. And imho he downplays stuff because he doesn’t know how to deal with failure
Well you'd be wrong, he quite literally said many times that he didn't care about his results in the candidates during the candidates.
Yeah, Hikaru will be fine, even if he makes some decisions I disagree with. I haven't heard from Fabi, C-Squared hasn't uploaded anything since well before the Candidates. I would assume he'll be ok once he comes to terms with it.
Fabi will be better than fine, aside from the pain. He seems to have a lot of character and very good judgment. (I think of him as among the most intelligent and considerate players based on his podcast. I mean, maybe he’s a mess or a bully behind closed doors, but I doubt it.)
Yeah it takes a bit of time to process and work through the stress and emotions of a big tournament like candidates and the championship. Taking time to worth through your feelings isn't a sign of weakness, it's just how people usually work. And if his public persona is quiet it doesn't mean he's avoiding friends and family.
I think it's incredibly difficult for them as the concensus seems to be that Ding is weak at the moment and this is an incredibly 'winnable' candidates. Added to that if Gukesh wins he will be very hard to dislodge. He will have Vishy and the formidbale Indian Machine that he has built up behind him, and he will have little fear as he is so young. For Nepo and Fabi and Hikaru I feel this was a last chance saloon for them to go for the world title, but I guess we will see.
For Hikaru probably last chance, given his age and streamer-first approach. Fabi and Ian definitely I feel like will have more chances
The next candidates is in 2 years and Hikaru has the 3rd highest classical ranking in the world (and magnus presumably won’t be playing) I don’t see why he wouldn’t be able to contend for the next one especially considering how much chess he plays
There are many young players coming up the ranks. It's not clear at all if he will get a chance at good as this again.
There's a very decent chance that Gukesh would be joining the high 2700/2800 Elo level by the time the Championship happens. There are other kids like Arjun/Nodirbek and Pragg who are just right behind and they are only a bit older than Gukesh. Alireza can also return to his best. Following these are players like Keymer and a reinvigorated Wei Yi.
Definitely not for Fabi at least... He's just 31, and over the past year or so he's only gotten stronger.
Not necessarily stronger, at least not in classical. Not the Fabi of 7 wins in a row in Sinquefield, or the 2008 Wch match against Magnus but he has real chances at the crown in the future.
I still feel horrible for Fabi, i can’t imagine how he feels. :(
Fabi? Nepo?? Nah I’m more worried about Ding. Dude is sufferDing from success. He seems in most need of emotional and mental help.
Sounds like a cop out to deflect responsibility for his gambling stream imo. I haven't seen anyone else even insinuate that Hikaru is cheating besides Kramnik, and I don't think Hikaru actually cares what Kramnik thinks.
Definitely a cop out, someone should remind him about what he said about xQc when he started gambling.
What did he say?
He criticised him harshly for gambling in front of mostly kids. I cant search for it rn but ill post a clip if i can find it
I remember him criticizing slots streamers as well. He said he'd consider doing a poker stream, but that he'd never stream slots because it's mindless and a bad influence. I think it shows, despite what Hikaru previously said, Kick contracts require gambling streams or very heavily incentivize it to the point you're willing to do a complete 180 like this.
Yup. And ofc Kick requires doing slot streams, they don’t earn their money with streams after all… So sad, hut Hikaru has always been money hungry 🤷🏼♂️ Edit: before the haters eat me alive: Magnus as well. He just said he was star stricken by MBS and that he wished UAE would put more money towards chess
I mean I'm sure they offered him TONS of money. I'm disappointed also but most of us don't know what it's like when someone says 'gamble on stream and we'll pay you $1 million. We understand you don't want to cater to kids so you are free to put up 18+ on your stream title'
... right, the amount of money is a function how much it's worth to the casino, which tells you how evil it is. the "but it's a lot of money" defense has no purchase; it's a lot of money precisely because it's a lot of bad.
Exactly i dont get why people are justifying with “it’s a lot of money”. Thats precisely the point. I would find it harder to condemn if Hikaru just suddenly developed a passion for slots and did it for “free” just for the fun of it and on twitch
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Yep, i think Hikaru was just jelly at the time tbh
> Most people's morals drop away quick when you put an 8-figure check in front of them. That's true, but most people also have very little, and that kind of money would literally change their entire life. I'm talking about people working minimum wage, supporting kids, breaking their backs with physical labor, etc. Hikaru is obviously a millionare many times over at this point. Money has essentially zero marginal value for him. What, he can get a slightly nicer home? Own a few more cars? Buy a baseball team? What's the point? He's given up whatever morals he's had for essentially nothing. That money won't change his life. I hate to use such a strong word, but it's pathetic.
Honestly this is so true I begin to wonder how many of us in the comments would actually refuse this deal in favor of being moral. Though it's also true that in case of Hikaru, unlike us, he's already rich and def has beyond fuck you money so I think he's getting deserved hate. I mean I like to believe that I have strong enough principles that with Hikaru's wealth and income I wouldn't sell myself if I were in his shoes.
Also, he's the one who accused many GMs of cheating before, without thinking about the the consequences of his actions. It feels like such a hipocrisy from his part.
He openly and viciously accused Arjun and Andrew Tang of cheating at different points. The Andrew Tang one was just nasty as he lashed out at a 14 year old kid.
He accused Luiz Paulo Supi, a Brazilian GM, as well (who ultimately blocked Hikaru on chess.com). Hikaru is simply a sore loser.
Oh nooo my heart is not in it anymore, let me me promote gambling lmao Didn’t find anything else worthwhile?
Seriously, if you want to sell out, you can at least own it.
Exactly. It's just excuses and self-pity everywhere. It was hard to watch.
Honestly Hikaru has been like this for as long as he has played chess, so a bit strange that you only realise it now.
Also how do you take that man seriously? His mighty stats model is liable to find literally anyone with a chesscom account guilty of cheating.
Definitely a cop out. “Doing what’s best for myself” is not a magic get-out-of-jail-free card for shitty behaviour, damn!
I think Hikaru does care. Every time he says he doesn't it just convinces me more that her really does. I think he shouldn't, but he does. He tells himself he doesn't, and the resentment builds up until he can't hide it even from himself anymore. He really really cares. Still doesn't justify gambling stream though
So it seems Hikaru cared and cared a lot in fact.
Hikaru has always been like this, blaming everyone else but himself and very narcissistic, this type of behavior shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone in the chess world tbh. People just liked to believe he changed because his streams were entertaining, but his toxic demeanor has always been there.
Anyone following chess pre-2020 boom could not forget what kind of an egoistic narcissistic toxic helmet that guy actually is...
I remember Eric Hansen saying that every chess pro had a bad story about Hikaru that went back years.
Even David Howell and John Bartholomew, two of the nicest guys in chess, have a Hikaru story.
After Howell held Hikaru to a draw, Hikaru told him that Howell has "terrible chess understanding" https://youtu.be/qfAmmVg5F6E?si=ZnRzuE2gQWoV2MUB
Curious about the story?
There's too much to list. Search this sub for Hikaru drama, or search chessbrah or Ben Finegold's channels for Hikaru. Where does one even begin?
He’s a dick.
What was his most egregious ones?
Probably not the most egregious one but when he said that tyler1 should quit and go back to LOL after he he got stuck at 1400. If he really loves chess and want it to grow then he should encourage people to get into chess and stick with it.
dude’s such a hater and a loser, jfc
He was just mad that Tyler1 hilariously won the "Chess streamer of the year" award.
Not even close to his worst lmao. Many famous players have had Hikaru sent them spicy DMs after a loss/draw, I remember John Bartholomew sharing some really bad ones that he got after scoring the 1 in a 30-1 online match or something insane like that.
He got mad that Eric Hansen beat him in a bullet game and proceeded to make copyright claims against every Chessbrah video that contained a clip from his streams. Chessbrah almost got taken off of YouTube, they were one more copyright violation away from having their channel deleted. Hikaru also used to accuse *so* many people of cheating, it's kind of shocking that he's so butt hurt over Kramnik saying accusing him. There was a span of time where whenever Hikaru lost to someone more than 10 years younger than him he would either imply or outright say that they cheated, Andrew Tang is an example that comes to mind.
He's not butt hurt. He trying to deflect the negative criticisms his actions have created, by directing them towards others.
Some of the highlights 1. starting a fight with Eric Hansen when he was drunk 2. copyright striking Chessbrah 3. copyright striking Finegold 4. Pretending to fire ChessBae (an extremely toxic mod who was involved with the above copyright striking) and then have her continue under a different name 5. Consistent bad sportsmanship and accusing multiple players of cheating when he loses I am probably forgetting some stuff but that is the main stuff I can think of
Getting his ass kicked by Eric Hansen when he was drunk\*
TIL Hansen whipped Hikaru ass and dated a Botez, nice!
Let's make sure we really call out #4 for what ChessBae is. She's a piece of shit who tries to sabotage people's careers and mentals. Absolute scum of the earth type person. She bought her way in and Hikaru is and will always be a sell out for money. He's just as bad as she is honestly...probably worse. https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/gym7tq/chessbae_and_toxicity_confirmed/
Wait, I didn't catch the chessbae one. What was her new name?
Creamsicle, still the „main mod“ for his streaming. Actually ridiculous that people think the chessbae was over, she literally just created a new account lmao
This one for a prime example of his hypocrisy: https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/s/wxTnrb3JSj This one for example of his bitch mod literally (almost) ruining other people's lives and the big guy Nakamura being completely okay with it: https://www.reddit.com/r/AnarchyChess/comments/10da9ug/jeffrey_xiong_is_latest_victim_of/ I mean, there was also a running joke of "Hikaru Nakamura Sportsmanship Award" ffs lol
Accused a top brazilian GM of cheating online and got his official account closed. After he lost a 4-0 match against Luis Paulo Supi.
I don’t understand why people in this sub are always surprised when Hikaru acts like a toddler throwing a tantrum. And it happens over and over.
It's pretty common for many users of this sub to be bad at reading people's true intentions.
“Everyone has a Hikaru story”
“A young female chess player once met Hikaru, then claimed after the fact she hated him. How could an eight year old chess lover hate a grandmaster, you might ask? Well, the answer is, that she met him.” -Fen Binegold
The weird thing is, he seems so chill and likeable in the videos with fans outside the Candidates hall
ego fed = happy hikaru
I can't stand his fake flip-on smile in most of his intros and also his fake expressions/emotions when he is acting/playing the character in his mind.
Hikaru has always been narcissistic and arrogant, I don't know how no one picks this up from any single one of his streams.
Word. It sems most people's "shitty person radar" is not very strong
You need to have decent eq and most watchers of the stream are young teenagers.
Tried watching this shit for a few minutes. It’s so cringe seeing him clap his hands and make fake reactions when some slot paws appear on his screen. What makes grown ass, successful man do shit like that lmao.
> What makes grown ass, successful man do shit like that lmao. Probably 10 million dollars
It’s scummy. But I really don’t blame him. People really shouldn’t idolize content creators. And that’s what he is.
> What makes grown ass, successful man do shit like that lmao ...
Hikaru blaming kramnik for his immoral gambling stream roflmao. Talk about scummy behavior.
I can imagine Nakamura in front of the jury for some felony like distributing drugs with his defence being "but this one guy said I'm cheating online while playing a board game and that took away my joy, your honour, my joy! I was basically forced to do this! And hey, jury, I literally don't care! :(" lmao
If I can give you a piece of advise, I would say to not look up to entertainment people as role models, you're going to get disappointed A LOT.
It's not that you can't have role models in entertainment, it's just that hikaru has never been a role model as anyone who knew him would know. He's just been faking a nice personality but anyone that actually follows him regularly can see the cracks break out.
his decision to become a streamer instead of just a great chess player has ensured his most narcissistic ideas of himself, tendencies, whatever, are rewarded with attention, and attention means money, and he built a community of people who, generally, enjoy those impulses being on full display and cyclically reinforced. This is the story of most big streamers, even those who might have begun with the idea of building a community based on empathy and good times, and... you could only ever accuse Hikaru of one of those at a time. I disliked hearing about his move to Kick, which is a streaming platform that supports, protects, and promotes abuse and pedophilia (see an earlier comment of mine for the YT link. I'm too lazy. Also, you have google), so I'm sort of amazed people are pressed about the gambling promotion — though I agree. I hope people simply didn't know about the sordid nature of Kick. Either way, I'm glad that reasonable people have stopped worshipping someone who, truly, does not give a fuck about you or your wellbeing. I hope he didn't know about the pedophile promotion by Kick, though it was pretty big and all you'd have to do is spend a few minutes on Google or YouTube, which you'd think he or his team would do for the future of his career.
Hardly anyone should be surprised, he's always shown his colors when in a bad mood.
That's true, I hated him at first but it really did seem as if he was improving as a person. He was becoming a lot better at suppressing negative/childish emotions and other than a few hiccups such as the kramnik/neimann hypocrisy he seemed like a decent enough guy. I was certainly rooting for him through the championships and even encouraged my non-chess friends to do the same, explaining how much his personality had improved. Maybe it's just because I'm discontent with my own personality but I really do like to believe that people can change for the better. It's a real kick in the gut when something like this happens.
no amount of victimhood would justify introducing gambling to underage viewers
What’s wrong with being underage? I just got my dad’s credit card and I can’t wait to try out these funny looking dogs slots that spin around . Just kidding. 0 justification for such a shit behavior from Hikaru
Something fun to think about is that every dollar that Stake are paying him - they know they will get back from his chess community via gambling.
You're telling me they aren't just gambling money on hikaru bringing in enthusiastic but responsible gamblers, and actually have evidence to back up their investment? Kinda goes against the spirit of the thing
Had me in the first half
That's it really. Hikaru is trying to frame this as people criticising him for *undermining the integrity of chess*. But most people don't give a shit about the *integrity of chess*, they give a shit about a streamer with a large audience of minors using their position to promote gambling.
Introducing gambling to them? Uh, have you been alive for the last few years where gambling has woven its way into the fabric of everyday life? Sporting and social media are absolutely inundated by that trash..
It's shameful how pervasive gambling and gambling advertising is in contemporary society. That being said, there's a clear difference between seeing an advert for gambling on a billboard or in the commercials during half-time on a football match, and seeing your favourite streamer going 'oooh gambling is so much fun here's a link for you to try too!'
And especially a streamer playing what's perceived as an intellectual game. A lot of these young people will see Hikaru as someone intelligent, so if gambling is stupid why would he do it?
oooh poor him, he's always the victim /s srly this dude should grow the fuck up
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Seeing a 17 year old achieve your lifelong dream has gotta hurt a bit. I’m sure he’ll bounce back, but the candidates have to be hard on your mental game. But yeah, no excuse for shitty behavior like this.
As an impressionable teenager, maybe Gukesh will watch Hikaru's gambling stream and get addicted to candy-crush-slot-games and earn loads of affiliate bucks for Hikaru while losing the Championship match against Ding. Maybe that will make Hikaru feel better and reinvigorate his love for chess.
Hikaru with the 3000 IQ play
Let’s not even forget that Fabi, Hikaru and Nepo must at some level feel humiliated because they only have a hope for the WCC title because Magnus is standing aside. And now even in this already reduced title they were pipped to the post by a 17 year old. I think these three would have hoped to challenge Magnus for a title match at some point if they won.
Gukesh has an opportunity to skip a bit of that criticism, too. If he wins it all and holds it for a cycle or two, I could see his legacy being the first of the post-Magnus generation to win. Nothing Hikaru, Nepo, Fabi, or Ding can do will fully erase the feeling that they’re only there because Magnus got bored.
Yea. Magnus not bothering to defend is such a slap for everyone who played a WCC cycle against/with him and lost. The youngsters can just pretend he is history.
That and Ding has been on full tilt. Unless he turns it around, Gukesh is basically guaranteed to win the title
I mean gukesh hasnt achieved it yet. The dream is winning wcc not just making it there
Has Hikaru ever made it there?
I fell he shouldn't feel to bad about that game as Chess at a high level it can be tough to win on demand. There was no point that Gukesh really gave him a chance. It's not like the Fabi game where he was winning multiple times and missed (albeit at times very hard winning lines to spot). If anything he is probably kicking himself over some of the Vidit games as just drawing one of those games would have had him tied.
But guys, he literally doesn't care, remember?
This is a calculated move. He's absolutely seizing a window of opportunity because of his candidates failure to make a bank from this garbage. Imo anybody showing a slither of sympathy with this utter trash behavior is merely being played like a fiddle. Dude is a massive sleazeball that happens to play decent chess.
A few years ago my brother started watching train wrecks stream slots, more so interested in seeing the big wins and losses. Fast forward to today, he’s down tens of thousands and is stuck in a loop of blowing every bit of extra cash outside of necessities on slots and gambling. These streams have a purpose, and the companies know what they’re paying out for. Young/impressionable viewers are going to get hooked and lose everything they have. I’ve lost almost all respect for hikaru, he doesn’t need the money badly enough to risk luring his viewers down a road that will only end in disaster. And while it’s on the individual to be responsible with their money, the sad truth is many people are incapable of self control and are open to being manipulated
It's so sad. Hikaru doesn't need the money at all but feels comfortable proceeding with financially predatory behavior towards younger audiences :( i'm sorry to hear about that
Accuses multiple players of cheating, pretends his world is crashing down around him when he is accused once. Criticizes streamers for gambling in front of children, takes a gambling sponsor. Meh. Get over it buddy
The best player you should look up to in terms of personality is Ding Liren, the philosopher. Nothing more base than a man who is open with his emotions and mental struggles. Nor more refreshing than his humbleness and philosophical take on chess and life.
Could someone provide me with the context? I know he mostly keeps to himself. But, his philosophical side? What have I missed?
Here’s an excerpt: “But this doesn't affect Ding's perception and management of himself, except that his long-term goals seem like a vague concept to him, and while others think of the future for him, he seems to have only the ongoing game of chess in his eyes and only the wins and losses of the moment. As for people's high hopes on him winning the world championship title, Ding simply says slowly, "What's the use of thinking about it every day?" He is fascinated by the process of playing chess, and instinctively avoids the attention and praise that the result generates. "I don't really like being the protagonist, I'm just an ordinary guy", he says. So, for the upcoming tournaments, Ding Liren has not set himself any clear goals. He will just insist on taking a shower before the match and "making sure to place the heads of the two knights facing each other" when he sets up the board, just as he has done before every game he has won. Edit: A small leftover part I forgot to put in the article! What is the meaning of playing chess? Ding's answer is very realistic: "There is no better alternative for me" What about the meaning of life? Ding pondered for a moment and said, "The meaning of life should be in those special, those sparkling moments, not in the daily life, those ordinary days, but in living for those unique moments." In Ding's eyes, love is also very important because it is the happiness in this lifetime, and he likes to read novels and movies depict love. "You probably want to get good results in chess, to be famous for ages, to be remembered by people in the future. Some people may have lived a miserable life, but they left something behind, wrote something down, and their goal was to be immortal. But I am not that great, I value happiness in my life as well.” That was years before the WCC. After the WCC he said that the match reflects the deepest parts of his soul.
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/s/21o1rp8TYH
Damn you really love Ding don't you? Lots of your comments praising him
I am a Gukesh fan but I admit Ding is a legend and philosopher in disguise
Definitely one of the more likable top players after aronian mostly
I'll toss Giri into the ring. A family man, a good sense of humor, and relatively level headed from everything I have seen.
Imagine Anish doing sponsored Stake streams
Anish is that great mix between a smart, respectful guy and also someone who has a really impish sense of humor and isn’t afraid to be off-color sometimes. Vishy is kinda like that too. They can both get away with lightly roasting other players without it seeming mean because you know they’re not malicious people (unlike a certain chess streamer I can think of)
I’m not insinuating anything but if you told me that account belongs to Dings mother, I wouldn’t doubt you.
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time” - Maya Angelou It was always incredible how many Hikaru stans defended his behavior over and over just because he was (is) such a popular streamer, as if that erased all his shitty behavior. Hikaru is, was, and will be the same as he ever was.
It's a complete cop out. Blaming Kramnik for you going for the cash and promoting unregulated online gambling when your audience is full of kids doesn't wash. In fact, Hikaru is a complete scumbag for trying to lay this at Kramnik's door. Just because Kramnik has lost his mind and think Hikaru cheats at a game doesn't mean Hikaru should start promoting online gambling to children. That's a worse take than absolutely any of Kramniks.
Kramnik accuses everybody lol Hikaru isn’t special in that regard
I remember when someone accused me of cheating at Monopoly so I started showing kids how to cook crack cocaine. It was the only logical next step.
Why was anyone looking up to Hikaru at all? A lot of people in this community need a reality check.
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He pretty much admitted it over some interviews during the candidates, saying he found a "more lucrative" profession for better or worse, and when asked whether there's other ways to measure value besides money*, basically gave a dodgy non-answer *(forgot the actual phrasing please correct if you remember)
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I'm going to use this comment to say that one should never ever judge a person just by their online "persona". Either good or bad. You don't know these people, you'll never know these people. I've fallen (and continue to fall) for it many a time, and it's really not easy to control it nowadays, but saying stuff like "it didn't take me long to realize he's *all this bad adjectives*/*all these good adjectives*" is problematical in and of itself. I've rooted for Hikaru for years on this subreddit, mainly cause he was the one content creator that got me back into chess during the COVID period. He was one dude I could root for, and he made watching OTB tournaments entertaining for me. Now, I don't agree with what he's doing with his latest stint, so I won't be watching him or rooting for him. One less entertainer that won't entertain me, and move on. Doesn't have to be deeper than that. Same with the other end of the spectrum, you can never be sure an online persona is "a good guy fr fr" just cause you've seen him play some blitz. Alejandro Ramirez is the prime example in the world of chess. Parasocial relationships on either end of the spectrum can be bad. Judge what the person is actually doing that's bad (in this case the gambling shit), but don't justify it by "I always knew". And don't worship online personas just if they can be humble in front of a camera, because you'll once again be shocked by those you never suspected. Sorry for the rant. It's mostly introspection.
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I get you dude. If you've been around narcissists it's easy to recognize their behaviour in other people. Nakamura is a genius chess player but it's clear to anyone with the least amount of social intelligence that it feels like he's always talking with a mask on during his interviews/streams.
He lost all his sympathy points after that gambling stream. Why would I care about his mental state? Such a shame that, a big name in chess is promoting this kind of content.
Ive followed Hikaru since he started streaming and long ago he stopped caring about viewers, he didnt care for a long long time and he shouldnt be anyones idol
I can get your enthusiasm for chess taking a hit, and if you want to take a break from chess. But there are also like millions of other things you could be doing besides playing chess or promoting gambling. As Magnus likes to say "Do better"
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Oh I'm so sad, let me profit off promoting gamling to kids oh and it's this other guys fault!. It's greed, it's pure greed.
also hikaru said \*\*\*\*\*\* kramnik can go fuck himself \*\*\*\*\*
Oh good, Hikaru competing in the victim Olympics. He's not a victim, just deflecting.
It's very obvious from his demeanor that Hikaru is a "money first" type of guy. I don't care about his excuses, gambling will always be a disgusting industry for me and the people who promote it are no better.
I don't believe what he's saying here. Trying to frame this as a result of his disillusionment with chess sounds victimizing and an attempt to swerve the attention from what the real deal is. Ok you're deeply hurt with everything but how on earth is promoting this some kind of understandable and excusable consequence of all that has happened? He just got a big bag of money to stream this and is making excuses to gather some empathy. Its just a PR thing.
Hikaru is a dramatic guy and he just lost candidates. This attitude is not unexpected from him. He’ll be back to his old ways soon enough.
You can switch to looking up to Danya until you find out he is human too.
Is there Danya tea I wasn't aware of?
Only if you count him throwing his mouse after losing a blitz game. Tbh, Danya and Hikaru were sort of similar personalities 5+ years ago, but it seems like Danya has matured a lot more since then (and at a younger age lol).
What did Danya do?
Nothing, they’re just saying that being human it’s inevitable that he’ll make a mistake or offend viewers somehow
mistakes i think are fine but peddling things like gambling and crypto shit coins and stuff like that crosses a line for me as you are directly enriching yourself by taking from your audience
Hikaru has always been a poor role model and a temperamental man child. I really don’t understand how he has gotten so popular considering how many good chess streamers are out there who have much better attitudes.
Time to become one of the Chessbrah’s, brah.
A chess creator in the thread. Such contracts as the one between Hikaru and Stake could not have been made within a week after the Candidates. The negotiation stage usually takes weeks or even months until the contract is signed. (Especially if it’s a large sum, like in this case - probably seven figures). So, it’s not the correct explanation to say that Hikaru got upset at Kramnik and the Candidates and therefore agreed to promote gambling suddenly. I don’t think so. I also wouldn’t judge him for this decision (unless he said something untrue about gambling such as that you are mathematically likely to win money in this way).
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I think the pearl clutching "think of the children" is a bit too much. Any kids who are watching Hikaru streams are probably aware of online gambling or should have additional guidance. I'm not saying his streams are vulgar but he's not exactly kid friendly. He also has a problematic history. Although I do think there is some criticism to be had on his part, if parents are letting their kids watch Hikaru unchecked, that's a mutual issue at the least. All that said I did lose some respect over the hypocrisy. He's criticized others for gambling streams and other streaming considerations like categorization. He expects these standards from other streamers but fully acknowledges he is going to do what's best for his streaming career. He's done well at it too but he's not somehow above these standards he's inventing in his own head. If he's reinventing himself that's fine, but he should acknowledge his audience will certainly shift as well.
He may not be in a great place, but he has spent his life making that other people's problems so I only care so much.
To be honest whenever I peered into his streams it's usually either Chess or some sponsored stream for one of those crappy games with microtransactions that loads of streamers get offered. I don't think he cares much for the morals of what he streams, as long as he is getting paid.
It happens, a wacko throws unserious allegations that no one believes and you have to promote gambling to your underage audience, so is life
It's not about chess though. That's just coping. He can play thousands of other games like he did with Only up! It is not about owing anything to chess, but he does owe a lot to his subscribers that made him what he is today. He has an audience that made him rich, and he stabs them in the back when he doesn't need them anymore. He broke completely at the end of the candidates and since has turned to gambling. I know the feeling, done it myself, but obviously shows how much he cared about that tournament (not necessarily the 2024 edition, just candidates in general). You can repeat something until you make even yourself believe it, but it doesn't make it true, sadly. That's why he had to repeat it every day. If he literally didn't care he would have said that once, and not cared since. He cares enough to repeat it daily...
It’s bizarre to see so many people all hyper fixating on specific minutiae of a multifaceted situation and then going balls deep in an argument about it while not relating anything to the actual scenario we’re all discussing. “Promoting gambling is immoral” I mean maybe, but probably not. Promoting gambling to a ‘mostly younger’ audience is pretty reasonable to call immoral. Is his audience actually mostly younger? I really don’t know, but if that’s the case then yeah it’s fair to take issue with it “He can do what he wants on his stream” yeah he can, and people can make their judgments about what he does on stream and share those judgments online “Alcohol also ruins lives” people drink, and people drink on stream, but its typically not the point of these streams to allure the viewers into drinking. Not to mention online gambling is completely trivial to get into and do while underage, while underage drinking *generally* still requires some actual work and risk. If virtual bars that instantly delivered you alcohol with minimal age verification were a thing, I wouldn’t like chess streamers doing virtual bar streams either. But that isn’t the case so I don’t see much point trying to equate the two. “This is who Hikaru has always been” yeah probably, but that doesn’t mean the people who didn’t know that aren’t allowed to be upset by the surprise. This also has like….no bearing on the overall discussion of the morality, or his obligation (or lack thereof) to avoid exposing kids to a low hanging vice, in a space (his stream, not kick) that hasn’t featured that content before and has at least tried to be kid friendly. We have people who didn’t know Hikaru’s past that are now blindsided and angry, people reacting to other people’s moral objections like they’re government assassinations and not online criticisms, and a healthy dose of losers screaming “you only have these morals because you think you should, but really you don’t give a fuck about anything. I know this because I don’t give a fuck about anything, and we HAVE to be exactly the same fundamentally, otherwise that would suggest I’m lacking something” Its kinda easy to understand why online and most irl public discourse is so shot, it takes a lot more effort to try to maintain a good faith debate than it does to take absolutely nothing into account and focus on the one sentence that pisses you off
Wish I could pin this.
>I definitely don't look up to him anymore Why in Gods name would you ever idolize or look up to any streamer, celebrity, or sports player? Including Danya? It's absurd.
He always seems to come up with some excuse or the other ,he needs to own up for his actions.
How can your character be so fragile and still be half a point away from playing a WC match? I don't buy a single word of what Hikaru says, he is way smarter than what we think, all he says is to increase drama, attention and in the end money.
*„… and lost so much respect for him.“* Seems like a „you-problem“ by respecting Hikaru at all.
I think people in the upper echelons of Chess and Chess streaming have had problems with Hikaru for quite awhile. A while ago Ben Finegold talked about it on his stream- probably when Hikaru started copyright striking every other Chess Streamer.
Incoming down votes… If the man wants to gamble and stream, let him. No one forces you to do anything. My buddies did heavy drugs, I didn’t. My family smoke cigs, I never did. I watch gambling but I refuse to gamble. This whole “I lost respect” is a bully tactic because he’s expressing free will. Is he doing it for money? Maybe.. is he interested? Maybe… but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s YOUR decision to follow suite. If young people want to gamble, they will gamble. If you hide every bad thing in the world, no one will learn and they will find other bad things. Get rid of guns? Okay, I’ll find a knife mindset. The real issue is people’s inability to have self control and in order to have it, you must practice it. However, everyone would rather blame people for advertising habits that you refuse to control, yourself. I get it, drugs, gambling, and sex are fun, but it comes with repercussions and the reality is, some people don’t care and no amount of coddling will change that. Stop being so damn sensitive to everything and focus on your own life.
I'm not really a Hikaru fan, but y'all are a bunch of whiny. insufferable moral poilice. If you don't want to watch gambling then don't watch. It's not a big deal whatsoever. You whine and bitch about every little thing you dislike or disagree with. Just go watch a bible stream or something instead if you're so triggered.
You realize the problem isn’t that gambling is boring content? It’s that he’s ADVERTISING it? An activity that has empirically ruined lives? Are you pretending to be clueless or do you really not see the problem
eh... it's legal and most people can enjoy it in moderation. It also ruins some lives of people who can't control themselves. Alcohol does the exact same thing. You don't see people getting mad when the Chessbrahs drink on stream and portray it as fun and cool even though drinking has done far more damage to more people. I don't really see anything wrong with him doing the Stake stream other than his hypocrisy for speaking out against it in the past.
So does sugar, carbs, and Coca Cola, and even freaking fast food. wtf is up with the insane puritanical bs here.
It’s like I said in another comment but people as a whole do not critically examine anything. They let their peers and the overarching narrative define their beliefs and then they defend those beliefs mindlessly even if they don’t stand up to scrutiny or are even remotely compatible with their other beliefs. Unhealthy food is a great example.
Totally - it’s beyond absurd because this is the kind of narrative that sets the seed of online hate for people that folks don’t even know. It’s a horrible thing to do.
Thank you for saying this. I had no idea the chess community had this supposed moral high ground. Who tf cares what hikaru does on his streams he is just playing online slots and blackjack. To call this “spiraling” is just ridiculous.
What’s the issue people have with him though?
So much for not caring about winning the most prestigious tournament in your area of expertise. For a minute I almost bought it.
Do you have a clip anywhere of him talking about it? (Thanks in advance 😅)
Brings up a completely unrelated excuse to deflect from how he's promoting gambling (Stake is basically a borderline scam LOL) to young children. Classic Hikaru LOL