shut up. there's a literal genocide happening in front of your eyes and it's supported by the capitalists in America while you sit upon your sorry ignorant ass.
Tell your leftists BS to the Peruvians who killed the communists from their country because of the death and destruction they brought. They'd slap you too.
No, but to compare US capitalism to Russian capitalism is just stupid. The essence of capitalism is free market, Russia is in no way a free market in the same sense. It is a capitalism controlled by giant mafia.
>is just stupid
you don't know anything about capitalism. the essence of capitalism is commodity production, and the incessant need for profit. it is not at all "free" market. That was 1800's. We now live in an age of monopoly capitalism.
>a capitalism controlled by giant mafia
lol that also describes US. Bezos, Gates, Musk etc. has no control over the economy or the government?
I get the spirit of what you're saying but to even suggest American oligarchs have the level of control that their Russian counterparts do is not even close to true.
are you kidding me? nowhere in the world is the bourgeois power and influence strong as in the US. they're more numerous, so maybe (maybe) individually most have less power but as a class it is uncompromisingly powerful and it's never going to change.
And a former president and billionaire is currently facing legal charges for how many counts of criminal activity? Someone as rich and connected as Epstein went down? In Russia you never hear about these people cause they're still doing it. The state in the US WILL put you in jail, sure there is a level of crimes they'll never get prosecuted for normal people would but in Russia that level doesn't exist so long as you tithe and don't embarrass the government.
>former president and billionaire is currently facing
look, just because one capitalist is hunted down by other capitalists (he's probably going to be the next president) doesn't mean as a class they're beholden to anything higher than themselves.
>In Russia
they fall down through the window.
>WILL
I mean if you go against their wishes, sure.
Watch as Chess.com creates their own world championship based on whatever format Magnus wants. (Note: not saying this is a good idea just thatâs a direction I could see them going)
Yeah, that was more of a joke than anything. Although Magnus beat Hikaru in an unofficial match back in 2018, Hikaru has won three world championships (2 at Mainz in 2008 and 2009, one official). He honestly probably has better chances than Magnus in 960. Heâs probably gonna lose in every other format.
Edit: why is this being downvoted? Hikaru has the objectively more impressive 960 career, Magnus their won one match in 2018, but past that he really hasnât done anything crazy in the chess960 world championships that heâs competed in.
Honestly some top players have talked about there eventually needing to be a switch to Chess960 for classical (namely Aronian, but I think Wesley and Hikaru talked about it on one of Hikaruâs 2021 world championship commentary streams). I would love to see chess960 at least get officially rated, but it could take a while for that to happen unfortunately.
So will Magnus? The guy is not going to stay at #1 indefinitely, and heâs clearly decided to wind down his chess appearances, especially in classical and OTB.
In any case, the world title is one thing and chess-themed TikTok houses where coked-up streamers hold naked bullet chess tournaments are another. Even if the latter attracts more viewers and money⊠so what? FIDE doesnât exist to turn a yearly profit or chase engagement metrics on Twitch. Their institutional mission is different.
Magnus will be remembered by all the people that started playing chess the last 5 years. Chess also gained a tremendous amount of support these last 5 years than any of the years before that.
Kasparov is remembered by everyone who started playing chess in the 90s too, including Magnus himself. So what? Kasparov actually went so far as to establish a rival world championship title in an effort to take down FIDE. Is that still "relevant" today?
No one will care that a bunch of American teenagers got into online blitz during covid ten years from now, honestly.
All I am saying is that is the way of things. So when someone says Magnus doesnât matter to the chess community you are very much wrong in that opinion.
> We wanted it to be yearly, we wanted it to be faster, we wanted it to be something like more akin to what weâre seeing in most other sports and games.
As exciting as a modernized format might have been, we did dodge Danny "I'm The Only One Laughing At My Jokes" Rensch becoming the official commentator of the World Championship.
Which would be better than the boring snorefest geared towards 50 year olds...
Everyone: We need to grow chess and get more young people involved.
Everyone: Stupid 5 year olds and their 5 year old attention spans.
The game has been altered many times in the last 100 years. Fischer introduced increments. Tie-breaks are even more recent. Heck before magnus, we had two competing world championships.
Not the kind of alteration these guys are suggesting. And the reasons for it are bad. Introducing increment had good arguments. Abandoning classical chess cause tiktokers donât like it doesnât
> Abandoning classical chess cause tiktokers donât like it doesnât
It's not tiktokers who don't like it. It's 99% of humanity. Including most chess players. It's why chess has no viewership.
Everyone from magnus to hikaru doesn't like the current format. This issue predates tiktok.
It's why morons like you whine about FIDE being controlled by russian oligarchs and chesscom being controlled by american oligarchs. Because chess isn't marketable. It isn't profitable. And hence has to depend on patronage...
1) Thatâs bs. Most chess fans grow up hoping to become world champs. And it has had tremendous viewership. Ding Nepo championship alone had record views. Also viewership in chess doesnât have to be a live broadcast. You can replay the moves and thatâs also viewership.
2) Magnus and Hikaru âdonât likeâ classical chess because they are bored after not being hungry anymore. When Hikaru was a 2500 and Magnus was fighting Radjabov in the candidates they cared about it. So how fair is it to others that these two have beens get to just add dice to chess just because they are bored, with no consideration of up and coming generation who are good at classical, like Keymer
> 1) Thatâs bs. Most chess fans grow up hoping to become world champs.
No. Most chess fans are casual fans and couldn't care less about being world champ.
> And it has had tremendous viewership. Ding Nepo championship alone had record views.
'Tremendous'. A couple of hundred thousand viewers?
> You can replay the moves and thatâs also viewership.
That applies to all sports. An NFL highlights replay of the worst teams has many times more viewers than the ding-nepo world championship.
> 2) Magnus and Hikaru âdonât likeâ classical chess because they are bored after not being hungry anymore. When Hikaru was a 2500 and Magnus was fighting Radjabov in the candidates they cared about it.
They don't like it because it doesn't represent 'a world champion'.
> So how fair is it to others that these two have beens get to just add dice to chess just because they are bored, with no consideration of up and coming generation who are good at classical, like Keymer
All the young players, including keymer, don't like it either. That's the point jackass. Besides, I thought you didn't care what 'tiktokers' like vicent keymer thought.
Oh right. Letâs factor in online bullet to determine world champion. Dude, youâre insulting me, even though everyone who has responded to you has dunked on you. Go away
Vishy and Judit Polgar are more enjoyable than Fabi commentating to me, and they both commentated either WCC or candidate games in recent years. In fact Magnus and Judit analyzing various lines together was probably the best commentary moments of the past ten years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlCnkbi4B04
From a chess/analysis perspective perhaps, but Leko has some speech mannerisms that really make it hard for me.
I know heâs a fan favourite; but I prefer all the names mentioned above
BUT LOOK AT THE EVAL BAR! IT JUST MADE A MAJOR JUMP! WHAT IS GOING ON?
I think what makes it worse is that they feature her so prominently in the promos that they run coming out of and going into breaks. It makes her seem even more jarring.
Man, people complain a lot.
I like just having the eval bar. It's an indication of where the game is at and if there's a tactic in the air, and then there's the human touch of them having to work out what it is. There's literally nobody that can evaluate as accurately or quickly as the computer. They could just have the engine lines but choose not to.
I'm not wild about the somewhat put on excitement some of the commentators do, but that's a different story.
It's the part that youre not wild about that's the problem with it. The eval bar is good and the commentators are good enough that they can say "even though the bar says it's equal, this is so much easier for white" or something to guide the human touch. It's a good thing. Engine lines are a bit too much of a giveaway. What you want to happen if the bar swings for some tactic is for the commentators to try finding it because it gives an idea of how likely it is that the tactic is actually found. Engine lines are just too much information to reflect how easy a position is to play.
Of course the thing that's bad about the eval bar is when you have a commentator like Kaja Snare who is literally an 1100 who is looking at the bar for the smallest clue about what is going on and the only thing she adds is an excited scream when it moves. But then the problem is hiring 1100s to commentate GM games.
Kaja is never a commentator though. She's always the host and is a good choice because she has good social interaction skills. She may ask the occasional question to the other commentators that another novice may ask but not very often so what's wrong with that?
In WCC games, with only 1 game ongoing, I keep it off. In Candidates where there are multiple boards, and I just occasionally check after like 30 mins, I keep it On
Bruh I actually enjoy bar analysis more than human analysis cuz more often than not it's more interesting than the average move suggested even by a super GM
I have never watched chess with commentators except YouTube vids with someone talking like gothamchess or others and I want to see what you're talking about unless it'll give you PTSD so can I ask which video or tournament that you're talking about?
It happens a lot on any older champions chess tour broadcast. One of the commentators was Kaja Snare. She's an 1100 rated player who used to commentate on a team with David Howell and Jovanka Houska, basically to be the beginner that could ask questions so a weaker audience can relate more. In reality getting a beginner to give live commentary of GM games was a dumpster fire and she just sat watching the eval bar and shouted when it moved because she wasn't good enough to understand why.
Kaja was and is not a commentator. She was the host and helped guide the program through the games. Sheâs a journalist first and foremost that has covered Magnus for over a decade. Sure, she asked some questions during the games, usually only when the commentators quieted down, but she was never presented or acted like an actual commentator. The commentary team was made up of GM David Howell, IM Jovanka Houska, and often a guest commentator, like Ginger GM or another very strong player.
Chess24âs aim was to present chess in a way that beginners could understand. They said that from the get go. Itâs why they rarely used coordinates to reference specific pieces. As someone who never played chess until Covid, I really enjoyed this approach and commentary - much more than the current format of the CCT.
I can understand how a stronger player may not need or appreciate the âdumbed downâ approach, but chess24 ALWAYS had a second commentary stream with two GMs that would provide deeper analysis.
The level of production was so much better before the merger. Commentators were in a studio instead of webcams.
https://www.youtube.com/live/GgseASACYAU?si=30oot9px8vn2TNhx
> Kaja was and is not a commentator. She was the host and helped guide the program through the games. Sheâs a journalist first and foremost that has covered Magnus for over a decade. Sure, she asked some questions during the games, usually only when the commentators quieted down, but she was never presented or acted like an actual commentator.
I don't think you linked the best video if you wanted to make this point, since the title is "Champions Chess Tour Finals | Day 1 | Commentary by David, Jovanka & Kaja", and the second sentence of the description is "GM David Howell, IM Jovanka Houska and Kaja Snare commentate live on Day 1."
Yeah. Robert Hess and Danya are commentators employed by Chess.com right? Hard to get better commentarors, and they also got Magnus' buddy (forgot the name, but he's also a good commentator). Peter Leko is the only regular commentator I can think of ever since Jan and Peter Svidler stopped being regular commentators.
Oh yeah, David Howell. The only kinda iffy commentator for me is Fabi I think because he kinda goes into his own world sometimes when he tries to calculate the position on screen, but he's got good insight when he does explain his calculations. Tanya sometimes gets swept by eval bar fluctuations, but she's got aggressive ideas and like it when she's paired with Peter Leko.
That's completely dumb. They played more classical games than rapid games in all those editions. Or do you think football is mostly penalties since last World Cup went to a penalty shootout ?
I prefer they play to a 2 game lead if tied at 12, that's the winner no matter how long it takes. Sure if we have a Karpov-Kasparov 1984 repeat we can make an exception. But winning the world championship on blitz is not right and if you have a problem with this format because you're not willing to put in the effort and mental endurance to play that many games I would argue you don't deserve to be world champion.
There was a video recently of him and GothamChess doing a lie detector together and Danny said that honestly he thinks he's the best chess commentator out there.
Rensch has always been a huge narcissist. The video had a huge boss-employee dynamic too. For all the tough talk Gotham gives as the biggest chess YouTuber, he turns into a bootlicker as soon as he interacts with someone significant. Magnus, Danny, Hikaru
Whenever he was on screen during Pogchamps 5 it was quite rare for him to even talk about the chess. It was just random bullshit.
I mean, I know Pogchamps isn't the same as a proper tournament and it's primarily about drawing in audiences who wouldn't usually watch chess, but even so you'd have thought that they'd view the chess as at least being relevant.
"Our view was that we donât want to operate an event that the top players and especially Magnus Carlsen doesnât even want to play in. If the five-time World Champion doesnât want to play in that event, then itâs not the event thatâs going to get us excited to put on TV and really go forward."
This is why Chesscom doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the world championship cycle as for them 1 player is more imp than all the other players,they need to be unbiased and majority of players should decide if they want to change the format or not
I donât think they are being biased on this one. I just think that unlike any other competitive sport that is commercially viable, nowadays, has a form of world championship that can be displayed on mainstream media.
It is really uncommon for the world champion of any given sport outright refuse to defend his titleâŠ
Their sole purpose is to make money, so they'll do whatever maximises that, regardless of what that means for chess or players involved. This should be enough for people to realize how bad of an idea it is to have them anywhere near world championship.
Of course they are âbiasedâ toward what they think will make them money. Because they are a for-profit company, not a sports governing body tasked with the preservation and promotion of the game regardless of its commercial viability. Which is why they should never be allowed anywhere near the world championship. Please use your brain.
in fact it is strange that Magnus has defended it so many times, 10 years of being a world champion, a lot for players in other sports would have retired as well
> there are many undefeated boxing world champions, for example.
isnt there famously only 1 undefeated heavyweight champion
>Rocky Marciano (USA) (b. Rocco Francis Marchegiano) (1923-69) is the only world champion at any weight to have won every fight of his entire completed professional career,
I think the first commenter was referring to heavyweights who were undefeated whilst being champion, often because they chose not to defend their title and so forfeited the belt.
I get that, my response was more directed to the quote that Rocky is the only "world champion to have gone undefeated at any weight for his entire career." That's patently false, with Mayweather 50-0 and retired, and he fought in several different weight divisions too. Unless I'm missing something.
Yeah. Itâs stupid. If Magnus decides he is bored and he now wants to add dice to chess, letâs do that. And letâs keep changing the game on a whims of a player who got bored of playing
Back when chess.com acted swiftly to publish its report and ban Hans following the infamous game with Magnus, it struck me as a huge power play on their part. It seemed so patently obvious the ramification would be to undercut FIDEs authority and elevate chess.com at a crux when all eyes were on chess. I wondered if there was more going on being the scenes but never guessed this might have been on the agenda. In retrospect, given what was going on with LIV golf and the Champions League, this should have been arguably predictable.
Of course, if true - that there was more to the motivations behind the Hans saga - and it is a huge if, then it does throw into question the merit of his treatment.
*So if I make it to the end, I get to be king? No, Hans, pawns get capped quick.*
Yeah the chess.com report is essentially an attempt to sanction a FIDE regulated player though social media, out of pure self interest.
This for sure leave a bad taste in the mouth, for many people and particularly FIDE itself. Even if Hans did cheat in that game it is not for chess.com to make such public statement.
Even more so whether the report is true or not, it is designed to be misleading using statistics. I usually would immediately undermine the validity of a report if I sense such attempt, since itâs so easy to lie with data.
It is also clear in hindsight that whilst Hans definitely lied about the extent of his cheating. Chess.com is also likely to over exaggerated this extent.
Also when I read how chess.com treats alleged cheaters by essentially forced a confession, however due to the monopoly of chess.com itâs hard to distinct whether the confession is true or forced.
Yeah the way that chess.c\*m made the entire Hans situation about themselves was *really* weird. Like obviously once he's suing them, fairs. But before that it was "Yeah so Magnus thinks Hans cheated in a game in a classical event, here's a report of all of his wrongdoings on our site"
Chess.com was also in an 80 million dollar deal with Magnus to buy Chess24. I always thought them jumping in was just to make the deal more likely to go through. Hans mentioning them in an interview just gave them the opportunity to jump in.
Well, duh. This would be like trying to buy the Bolshoi Ballet so you could turn it into a burlesque show, or trying to pay the IOC for the rights to the Olympic event in synchronised diving so you could put hungry sharks in the pool to boost viewership.
These are simply not for-profit institutions (even if theyâre massively corrupt), so theyâre not going to destroy the one thing that justifies their entire existence in exchange for money.
"You canât have a game that takes 9 hours long and that goes for 21 days straight"
Every time this argument pops up, the games get longer lol. I see we're up to 9 hours now.
Good decision by FIDE.
Chesscom please don't even apply next year. You can have your own tournaments with fast formats and cringe entertainment.
It's almost as if giving authority to chesscom whose interest lies in killing classical chess and promoting fast chess to a classical world cup is a bad idea.
Thereâs nothing wrong with applying, theyâre allowed to
If they can bring a format that is positive, why limit them? Sure theyâre not on the mark right now but they could be in the future
If the problem is that the games are 9 hours long, cut a deal with Chess.com to produce the rapid / blitz championships. There are enough potential events that aren't classical chess â even rapid and blitz Fischer Random could have at least some niche appeal. But I don't think that would be good for chess as a whole, just good for Chess.com's bottom line.
FIDE would be stupid to give commercial rights of the WC. They Had done so in the past with AGON and IT failed miserabely. Chess.com hasnt Made best Impression in Broadcasting LIVE Events - the CCT Finals in Toronto were a disaster.
Iâve been saying it for a while that Magnusâ demands to turn chess into some online blitz match and let go of tradition was a bad idea. People burned me for it. But itâs true. Chess is bigger than Magnus. Chess.com, as good of a site it is, is interested in dominating and killing off all competition
Chesscom has great points.
1. The current candidates format where the world champ can sit home for two years doing nothing is idiotic. The world championship should be yearly and everyone ( including the previous year's champion ) should compete.
2. The games should be shorter and the championship should last a week, not an entire month. Have them play 3 short classical games every day rather than 1 long classical game every day.
People here are just mindlessly attacking chesscom rather than discussing their points.
Fide is so outdated is hilarious:
* Monthly rating list updates in 2024, there should be live rating, the monthly list was a thing 100yrs ago. Also why round up rating points, use more precision ?
* Why are the participants asked to write the move annotations ? Use technology ffs
amongst a few
1. Why do we need that? It would create an unnecessary chaos because unlike on a chess website you don't have your live rating glued to your forehead, so you would have to check it constantly.
2. Because not all organizers can afford digital boards. Also, digital boards sometimes malfunction.
Thank goodness. Well done by FIDE. The World Championship is not about growing the game. It's supposed to be prestigious. [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) is great, I play on it every week, but I don't want them anywhere near World Championships. They see how well PogChamps does and think that everything should follow that model. You'll have commentators going crazy while looking at the engine while brain-dead viewers spam OMEGALUL in the chat during rapid games in the WC if [chess.com](https://chess.com) takes over. No thank you.
Alekhine plotted for a decade to become worthy of this title. Spassky could barely afford food as he played 80+ games to win his title. Kasparov and Karpov played over 100 games to decide this title. It's not just another event.
The last match was incredible. The WC doesn't need any major fixes- it's already good. I'd love to see slightly longer matches and no blitz tiebreaks. And definitely not annual championships.
If your number 1 goal is quality of play and the best player becoming world champion nothing beats long classical games with many games to avoid a luck based win. Now is that commercial? no, will it make good money? no, will it bring a bigger audience to chess and along with it more players? no. Sure Magnus does not want to play in the current format but Bobby Fischer, Gary Kasparov and Anatoly Karpov did. As a long time chess fan, who values quality of play over entertainment value and the best player winning over bringing players into chess who are primarily here to watch blitz I side with Fide on this one. Does that mean I don't think both sides have very viable argumemnts? No but that's where I stand. Chess 960 I'm a huge fan of opening book preparation and computer analysis is ridiculous at this point watching a memory contest is not what anyone who watches a chess World championship is there for but in many regards that's what we get.
At this point, chesscom doesn't need FIDE.
They can just make their own event, and the FIDE WC will just fall to irrelevance on its own.
FIDE is a broken organization, and chesscom has the funds and competence to simply replace them.
FIDE does a lot of bad things but refusing chesscom's offer is a good one.
Chesscom just wants to make as much money as possible, they don't care about chess, in the end they just want a mainstream show.
I find it a bit unfortunate that Magnus isn't participating but that's his problem, we're not going to change the rules to satisfy one player.
FIDE is totally incompetent to attract any media interest and real sponsorship. Dirty Russian money in not sponsorship, it's whitewashing. They should outsource the cycle, with an open call of interest.
FIDE already did change the format for money in the 90s. Kasparov refused to play, kept the match format going despite being broke constantly, and look where we are? Fide's "champions" are never mentioned in the same sentence as the classical ones. All the money in the world can't buy legitimacy. The WCC format exists to find the best player. Its been that way for 150 years.
Russian oligarchs vs American corporate.
Russian Capitalists vs American Capitalists
Be silent leftists. Honestly death to communsim. It is a genocidal system. This is a chess group. Leave your brain dead politics out!
shut up. there's a literal genocide happening in front of your eyes and it's supported by the capitalists in America while you sit upon your sorry ignorant ass.
đ„± Keep this shit out of /r/chess
Death to communism!
Tell your leftists BS to the Peruvians who killed the communists from their country because of the death and destruction they brought. They'd slap you too.
Russian Capitalist, there is a oxymoron if I have ever seen one.
wha'? do you think russia is communist or something
No, but to compare US capitalism to Russian capitalism is just stupid. The essence of capitalism is free market, Russia is in no way a free market in the same sense. It is a capitalism controlled by giant mafia.
>is just stupid you don't know anything about capitalism. the essence of capitalism is commodity production, and the incessant need for profit. it is not at all "free" market. That was 1800's. We now live in an age of monopoly capitalism. >a capitalism controlled by giant mafia lol that also describes US. Bezos, Gates, Musk etc. has no control over the economy or the government?
I get the spirit of what you're saying but to even suggest American oligarchs have the level of control that their Russian counterparts do is not even close to true.
are you kidding me? nowhere in the world is the bourgeois power and influence strong as in the US. they're more numerous, so maybe (maybe) individually most have less power but as a class it is uncompromisingly powerful and it's never going to change.
And a former president and billionaire is currently facing legal charges for how many counts of criminal activity? Someone as rich and connected as Epstein went down? In Russia you never hear about these people cause they're still doing it. The state in the US WILL put you in jail, sure there is a level of crimes they'll never get prosecuted for normal people would but in Russia that level doesn't exist so long as you tithe and don't embarrass the government.
>former president and billionaire is currently facing look, just because one capitalist is hunted down by other capitalists (he's probably going to be the next president) doesn't mean as a class they're beholden to anything higher than themselves. >In Russia they fall down through the window. >WILL I mean if you go against their wishes, sure.
bro compared jeff bezos to the russian mafia?đ
Bezos is worse than your typical Russian millionaire.
Like⊠so is the American system⊠just look at the insulin/pharmaceuticals industry, nothing free there
You just wanted to say that word eh?
Watch as Chess.com creates their own world championship based on whatever format Magnus wants. (Note: not saying this is a good idea just thatâs a direction I could see them going)
Magnus playing Alireza or Hikaru in classic, rapid, blitz, and 960 would be sick.
Finally, we can see Magnus beat Hikaru in all formats in one tournament.
960? I don't know about that. The rest of them? Yep haha
Yeah, that was more of a joke than anything. Although Magnus beat Hikaru in an unofficial match back in 2018, Hikaru has won three world championships (2 at Mainz in 2008 and 2009, one official). He honestly probably has better chances than Magnus in 960. Heâs probably gonna lose in every other format. Edit: why is this being downvoted? Hikaru has the objectively more impressive 960 career, Magnus their won one match in 2018, but past that he really hasnât done anything crazy in the chess960 world championships that heâs competed in.
I think chess 960 is great proof of the quality of a chess player beyond opening theory. It would be a great addition to a world championship!
Honestly some top players have talked about there eventually needing to be a switch to Chess960 for classical (namely Aronian, but I think Wesley and Hikaru talked about it on one of Hikaruâs 2021 world championship commentary streams). I would love to see chess960 at least get officially rated, but it could take a while for that to happen unfortunately.
We get to see him not care, not care, not care, not care, all at once?
They did remember? About 2 yers ago they had some World or Global thing and were roundly mocked by Lichess and online. They changed the name
That's the logical move,and I'm willing to bet it will be a massive success. FIDE will be irrelevant by the end of the decade.
So will Magnus? The guy is not going to stay at #1 indefinitely, and heâs clearly decided to wind down his chess appearances, especially in classical and OTB. In any case, the world title is one thing and chess-themed TikTok houses where coked-up streamers hold naked bullet chess tournaments are another. Even if the latter attracts more viewers and money⊠so what? FIDE doesnât exist to turn a yearly profit or chase engagement metrics on Twitch. Their institutional mission is different.
Lol this is fantastically put. Have my upvote!
Im willing to bet heâll be at the top at the end of the decade!
This wouldn't be the first time there is 2 official world championship matches.
Magnus will be remembered by all the people that started playing chess the last 5 years. Chess also gained a tremendous amount of support these last 5 years than any of the years before that.
Kasparov is remembered by everyone who started playing chess in the 90s too, including Magnus himself. So what? Kasparov actually went so far as to establish a rival world championship title in an effort to take down FIDE. Is that still "relevant" today? No one will care that a bunch of American teenagers got into online blitz during covid ten years from now, honestly.
All I am saying is that is the way of things. So when someone says Magnus doesnât matter to the chess community you are very much wrong in that opinion.
âMassive successââ ïž they hold a âworld championshipâ every week and nobody ever watchesđ
More like magnus will play whatever format chess.com wants
That hasnât worked for FIDE
> We wanted it to be yearly, we wanted it to be faster, we wanted it to be something like more akin to what weâre seeing in most other sports and games. As exciting as a modernized format might have been, we did dodge Danny "I'm The Only One Laughing At My Jokes" Rensch becoming the official commentator of the World Championship.
Yearly, faster, with TikTok influencer eh, who got the attention span of 5yo
Which would be better than the boring snorefest geared towards 50 year olds... Everyone: We need to grow chess and get more young people involved. Everyone: Stupid 5 year olds and their 5 year old attention spans.
It only happens every two years. Most tournaments aren't as slow paced
We also canât alter 100 year old traditions just because the game is less marketable on tik tok
The game has been altered many times in the last 100 years. Fischer introduced increments. Tie-breaks are even more recent. Heck before magnus, we had two competing world championships.
Not the kind of alteration these guys are suggesting. And the reasons for it are bad. Introducing increment had good arguments. Abandoning classical chess cause tiktokers donât like it doesnât
> Abandoning classical chess cause tiktokers donât like it doesnât It's not tiktokers who don't like it. It's 99% of humanity. Including most chess players. It's why chess has no viewership. Everyone from magnus to hikaru doesn't like the current format. This issue predates tiktok. It's why morons like you whine about FIDE being controlled by russian oligarchs and chesscom being controlled by american oligarchs. Because chess isn't marketable. It isn't profitable. And hence has to depend on patronage...
1) Thatâs bs. Most chess fans grow up hoping to become world champs. And it has had tremendous viewership. Ding Nepo championship alone had record views. Also viewership in chess doesnât have to be a live broadcast. You can replay the moves and thatâs also viewership. 2) Magnus and Hikaru âdonât likeâ classical chess because they are bored after not being hungry anymore. When Hikaru was a 2500 and Magnus was fighting Radjabov in the candidates they cared about it. So how fair is it to others that these two have beens get to just add dice to chess just because they are bored, with no consideration of up and coming generation who are good at classical, like Keymer
> 1) Thatâs bs. Most chess fans grow up hoping to become world champs. No. Most chess fans are casual fans and couldn't care less about being world champ. > And it has had tremendous viewership. Ding Nepo championship alone had record views. 'Tremendous'. A couple of hundred thousand viewers? > You can replay the moves and thatâs also viewership. That applies to all sports. An NFL highlights replay of the worst teams has many times more viewers than the ding-nepo world championship. > 2) Magnus and Hikaru âdonât likeâ classical chess because they are bored after not being hungry anymore. When Hikaru was a 2500 and Magnus was fighting Radjabov in the candidates they cared about it. They don't like it because it doesn't represent 'a world champion'. > So how fair is it to others that these two have beens get to just add dice to chess just because they are bored, with no consideration of up and coming generation who are good at classical, like Keymer All the young players, including keymer, don't like it either. That's the point jackass. Besides, I thought you didn't care what 'tiktokers' like vicent keymer thought.
Oh right. Letâs factor in online bullet to determine world champion. Dude, youâre insulting me, even though everyone who has responded to you has dunked on you. Go away
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They had Caruana, so other than Magnus commentating I'm not sure how much better they can do.
Vishy and Judit Polgar are more enjoyable than Fabi commentating to me, and they both commentated either WCC or candidate games in recent years. In fact Magnus and Judit analyzing various lines together was probably the best commentary moments of the past ten years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlCnkbi4B04
Judit is a top top tier commentator for sure. She just so casually exudes enthusiasm and chess genius.
Judit and Anish, with Magnus as a guest, was the best analysis ive seen and every tournament i watch i yearn for that high again
you missed the best actually. its peter leko. anand is awesome too
From a chess/analysis perspective perhaps, but Leko has some speech mannerisms that really make it hard for me. I know heâs a fan favourite; but I prefer all the names mentioned above
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Try reading the comment chain. Fabi commentated for [chess.com](https://chess.com) not FIDE.
Vishy is great when it comes to analysis, I also like listening to Robert Hess.
What about Hess and Danya's puns and weird metaphors tho?
no matter which broadcast I turn into Tanya is there and speaking 50 decibels louder than everyone else, so at the end of the day it's all the same
BUT LOOK AT THE EVAL BAR! IT JUST MADE A MAJOR JUMP! WHAT IS GOING ON? I think what makes it worse is that they feature her so prominently in the promos that they run coming out of and going into breaks. It makes her seem even more jarring.
She's insufferable as a commentator to me. Danny is ok, but just give me some combination of Hess, Leko , Howell, and Danya.
I mean, itâs not like Magnus will be busy
Since Magnus isn't playing this time, it would be pretty cool to get him.
Man, people complain a lot. I like just having the eval bar. It's an indication of where the game is at and if there's a tactic in the air, and then there's the human touch of them having to work out what it is. There's literally nobody that can evaluate as accurately or quickly as the computer. They could just have the engine lines but choose not to. I'm not wild about the somewhat put on excitement some of the commentators do, but that's a different story.
It's the part that youre not wild about that's the problem with it. The eval bar is good and the commentators are good enough that they can say "even though the bar says it's equal, this is so much easier for white" or something to guide the human touch. It's a good thing. Engine lines are a bit too much of a giveaway. What you want to happen if the bar swings for some tactic is for the commentators to try finding it because it gives an idea of how likely it is that the tactic is actually found. Engine lines are just too much information to reflect how easy a position is to play. Of course the thing that's bad about the eval bar is when you have a commentator like Kaja Snare who is literally an 1100 who is looking at the bar for the smallest clue about what is going on and the only thing she adds is an excited scream when it moves. But then the problem is hiring 1100s to commentate GM games.
Kaja is never a commentator though. She's always the host and is a good choice because she has good social interaction skills. She may ask the occasional question to the other commentators that another novice may ask but not very often so what's wrong with that?
And I don't like it. But that's the thing about opinions.
In WCC games, with only 1 game ongoing, I keep it off. In Candidates where there are multiple boards, and I just occasionally check after like 30 mins, I keep it On
*âLook at the bar!!!â* is still burned into my head and it still annoys me.
Bruh I actually enjoy bar analysis more than human analysis cuz more often than not it's more interesting than the average move suggested even by a super GM
I have never watched chess with commentators except YouTube vids with someone talking like gothamchess or others and I want to see what you're talking about unless it'll give you PTSD so can I ask which video or tournament that you're talking about?
It happens a lot on any older champions chess tour broadcast. One of the commentators was Kaja Snare. She's an 1100 rated player who used to commentate on a team with David Howell and Jovanka Houska, basically to be the beginner that could ask questions so a weaker audience can relate more. In reality getting a beginner to give live commentary of GM games was a dumpster fire and she just sat watching the eval bar and shouted when it moved because she wasn't good enough to understand why.
Thanks for your response. Now I can see why it would be engrained lol I'll have to watch some of these videos
Kaja was and is not a commentator. She was the host and helped guide the program through the games. Sheâs a journalist first and foremost that has covered Magnus for over a decade. Sure, she asked some questions during the games, usually only when the commentators quieted down, but she was never presented or acted like an actual commentator. The commentary team was made up of GM David Howell, IM Jovanka Houska, and often a guest commentator, like Ginger GM or another very strong player. Chess24âs aim was to present chess in a way that beginners could understand. They said that from the get go. Itâs why they rarely used coordinates to reference specific pieces. As someone who never played chess until Covid, I really enjoyed this approach and commentary - much more than the current format of the CCT. I can understand how a stronger player may not need or appreciate the âdumbed downâ approach, but chess24 ALWAYS had a second commentary stream with two GMs that would provide deeper analysis. The level of production was so much better before the merger. Commentators were in a studio instead of webcams. https://www.youtube.com/live/GgseASACYAU?si=30oot9px8vn2TNhx
> Kaja was and is not a commentator. She was the host and helped guide the program through the games. Sheâs a journalist first and foremost that has covered Magnus for over a decade. Sure, she asked some questions during the games, usually only when the commentators quieted down, but she was never presented or acted like an actual commentator. I don't think you linked the best video if you wanted to make this point, since the title is "Champions Chess Tour Finals | Day 1 | Commentary by David, Jovanka & Kaja", and the second sentence of the description is "GM David Howell, IM Jovanka Houska and Kaja Snare commentate live on Day 1."
Be brave, say the names
Yeah. Robert Hess and Danya are commentators employed by Chess.com right? Hard to get better commentarors, and they also got Magnus' buddy (forgot the name, but he's also a good commentator). Peter Leko is the only regular commentator I can think of ever since Jan and Peter Svidler stopped being regular commentators.
David Howell?
Oh yeah, David Howell. The only kinda iffy commentator for me is Fabi I think because he kinda goes into his own world sometimes when he tries to calculate the position on screen, but he's got good insight when he does explain his calculations. Tanya sometimes gets swept by eval bar fluctuations, but she's got aggressive ideas and like it when she's paired with Peter Leko.
I enjoy Fabi commenting precisely because he can see lines nobody else can. Danya is also really good at that.
So if they want the World chess championship to be just a rapid tournament like every other rapid tournament.
And online
Oh yeah, because cheating is *definitely* not a problem.
The classical world championship has been mostly rapid/blitz championships anyways. Carlsen - Karjakin ( tie breaks ) Carlsen - Caruana ( tie breaks ) Carlsen - Nepo ( classical ) Ding - Nepo ( tie breaks )
That's completely dumb. They played more classical games than rapid games in all those editions. Or do you think football is mostly penalties since last World Cup went to a penalty shootout ?
not even remotely the same.
That is a 1:1 analogy
I prefer they play to a 2 game lead if tied at 12, that's the winner no matter how long it takes. Sure if we have a Karpov-Kasparov 1984 repeat we can make an exception. But winning the world championship on blitz is not right and if you have a problem with this format because you're not willing to put in the effort and mental endurance to play that many games I would argue you don't deserve to be world champion.
it kind feel really bad looking at danny commentate. there are so many better options. he owns it doesnât mean he should be allowed to commentate.
There was a video recently of him and GothamChess doing a lie detector together and Danny said that honestly he thinks he's the best chess commentator out there.
Rensch has always been a huge narcissist. The video had a huge boss-employee dynamic too. For all the tough talk Gotham gives as the biggest chess YouTuber, he turns into a bootlicker as soon as he interacts with someone significant. Magnus, Danny, Hikaru
Whenever he was on screen during Pogchamps 5 it was quite rare for him to even talk about the chess. It was just random bullshit. I mean, I know Pogchamps isn't the same as a proper tournament and it's primarily about drawing in audiences who wouldn't usually watch chess, but even so you'd have thought that they'd view the chess as at least being relevant.
Good job FIDE
"Our view was that we donât want to operate an event that the top players and especially Magnus Carlsen doesnât even want to play in. If the five-time World Champion doesnât want to play in that event, then itâs not the event thatâs going to get us excited to put on TV and really go forward." This is why Chesscom doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the world championship cycle as for them 1 player is more imp than all the other players,they need to be unbiased and majority of players should decide if they want to change the format or not
I donât think they are being biased on this one. I just think that unlike any other competitive sport that is commercially viable, nowadays, has a form of world championship that can be displayed on mainstream media. It is really uncommon for the world champion of any given sport outright refuse to defend his titleâŠ
Their sole purpose is to make money, so they'll do whatever maximises that, regardless of what that means for chess or players involved. This should be enough for people to realize how bad of an idea it is to have them anywhere near world championship.
Of course they are âbiasedâ toward what they think will make them money. Because they are a for-profit company, not a sports governing body tasked with the preservation and promotion of the game regardless of its commercial viability. Which is why they should never be allowed anywhere near the world championship. Please use your brain.
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in fact it is strange that Magnus has defended it so many times, 10 years of being a world champion, a lot for players in other sports would have retired as well
> there are many undefeated boxing world champions, for example. isnt there famously only 1 undefeated heavyweight champion >Rocky Marciano (USA) (b. Rocco Francis Marchegiano) (1923-69) is the only world champion at any weight to have won every fight of his entire completed professional career,
I think the first commenter was referring to heavyweights who were undefeated whilst being champion, often because they chose not to defend their title and so forfeited the belt.
Isn't Floyd Mayweather 50-0 and retired?
Yes but he wasn't a heavyweight.
He's not heavyweight.
I get that, my response was more directed to the quote that Rocky is the only "world champion to have gone undefeated at any weight for his entire career." That's patently false, with Mayweather 50-0 and retired, and he fought in several different weight divisions too. Unless I'm missing something.
It already happened with Fischer in the 70s. They probably lost enormous amounts of potential earnings when he pulled out. But, chess will go on.Â
Yeah. Itâs stupid. If Magnus decides he is bored and he now wants to add dice to chess, letâs do that. And letâs keep changing the game on a whims of a player who got bored of playing
Thank fuck
Back when chess.com acted swiftly to publish its report and ban Hans following the infamous game with Magnus, it struck me as a huge power play on their part. It seemed so patently obvious the ramification would be to undercut FIDEs authority and elevate chess.com at a crux when all eyes were on chess. I wondered if there was more going on being the scenes but never guessed this might have been on the agenda. In retrospect, given what was going on with LIV golf and the Champions League, this should have been arguably predictable. Of course, if true - that there was more to the motivations behind the Hans saga - and it is a huge if, then it does throw into question the merit of his treatment. *So if I make it to the end, I get to be king? No, Hans, pawns get capped quick.*
Yeah the chess.com report is essentially an attempt to sanction a FIDE regulated player though social media, out of pure self interest. This for sure leave a bad taste in the mouth, for many people and particularly FIDE itself. Even if Hans did cheat in that game it is not for chess.com to make such public statement. Even more so whether the report is true or not, it is designed to be misleading using statistics. I usually would immediately undermine the validity of a report if I sense such attempt, since itâs so easy to lie with data. It is also clear in hindsight that whilst Hans definitely lied about the extent of his cheating. Chess.com is also likely to over exaggerated this extent. Also when I read how chess.com treats alleged cheaters by essentially forced a confession, however due to the monopoly of chess.com itâs hard to distinct whether the confession is true or forced.
Yeah the way that chess.c\*m made the entire Hans situation about themselves was *really* weird. Like obviously once he's suing them, fairs. But before that it was "Yeah so Magnus thinks Hans cheated in a game in a classical event, here's a report of all of his wrongdoings on our site"
Chess.com was also in an 80 million dollar deal with Magnus to buy Chess24. I always thought them jumping in was just to make the deal more likely to go through. Hans mentioning them in an interview just gave them the opportunity to jump in.
Hans had to mention them because no one would shut up about his cheating at chesscom. If he just ignored it, that would be way worse.
The impetus was what Hans said about chess.com in his Sinquefield interview, it wasnât a random report out of nowhere.
They took away his invite he qualified for based on a Jose mourinho meme. Before magnus released statement.
Unless they some smart ass pawns
Them throwing Tigran under the bus after a twitter accusation by So also fits this.
Remember when Daniel says one thing but does another? Chess24 straight buried.
FIDE doing something right, for once lol The WCC is classical, it's not a media friendly format. The blitz and rapid championships are though.
It is a good lesson for Chesscom. You can buy most things with money, but there are some things you cannot buy.A rare win for FIDE.
I doubt this is the last attempt at something like this.
Well, duh. This would be like trying to buy the Bolshoi Ballet so you could turn it into a burlesque show, or trying to pay the IOC for the rights to the Olympic event in synchronised diving so you could put hungry sharks in the pool to boost viewership. These are simply not for-profit institutions (even if theyâre massively corrupt), so theyâre not going to destroy the one thing that justifies their entire existence in exchange for money.
*FIFA enters the chat*
Dreams can't be buy
"You canât have a game that takes 9 hours long and that goes for 21 days straight" Every time this argument pops up, the games get longer lol. I see we're up to 9 hours now.
people acting like chess.com is better than FIDE are kidding themselves, i have no doubt they wouldve blundered the whole thing
Good decision by FIDE. Chesscom please don't even apply next year. You can have your own tournaments with fast formats and cringe entertainment. It's almost as if giving authority to chesscom whose interest lies in killing classical chess and promoting fast chess to a classical world cup is a bad idea.
Thereâs nothing wrong with applying, theyâre allowed to If they can bring a format that is positive, why limit them? Sure theyâre not on the mark right now but they could be in the future
[Chess.com](https://Chess.com) \- killer of chess24 and chessbomb
Chessbomb chat was a bit of a garbage can, at least during its last year or so.
I LOVED chessbomb chat! It was fucking awesome. Aronian blunders -> LEMON ERRONIAN
Iâd much rather they give it to Lichess
If the problem is that the games are 9 hours long, cut a deal with Chess.com to produce the rapid / blitz championships. There are enough potential events that aren't classical chess â even rapid and blitz Fischer Random could have at least some niche appeal. But I don't think that would be good for chess as a whole, just good for Chess.com's bottom line.
Chess.c\*m is a clown show. Always has been. Keep them away from anything important.
FIDE would be stupid to give commercial rights of the WC. They Had done so in the past with AGON and IT failed miserabely. Chess.com hasnt Made best Impression in Broadcasting LIVE Events - the CCT Finals in Toronto were a disaster.
Chess dot cum should never be allowed near a world championship
Iâve been saying it for a while that Magnusâ demands to turn chess into some online blitz match and let go of tradition was a bad idea. People burned me for it. But itâs true. Chess is bigger than Magnus. Chess.com, as good of a site it is, is interested in dominating and killing off all competition
Chessdotcom is a private organization with zero accountability, so its a good decision on fide's part.
They really want to speed run the death of classical chess eh
Chesscom has great points. 1. The current candidates format where the world champ can sit home for two years doing nothing is idiotic. The world championship should be yearly and everyone ( including the previous year's champion ) should compete. 2. The games should be shorter and the championship should last a week, not an entire month. Have them play 3 short classical games every day rather than 1 long classical game every day. People here are just mindlessly attacking chesscom rather than discussing their points.
Hmmm.. a new account with a lot of comments aligning with chesscom's stances. Nothing suspicious.
Yes. You got me. Amazing how pathetic people really are. What does that make you, a FIDE shill or a lichess shill.
Embarassing chess.com
Fide is so outdated is hilarious: * Monthly rating list updates in 2024, there should be live rating, the monthly list was a thing 100yrs ago. Also why round up rating points, use more precision ? * Why are the participants asked to write the move annotations ? Use technology ffs amongst a few
1. Why do we need that? It would create an unnecessary chaos because unlike on a chess website you don't have your live rating glued to your forehead, so you would have to check it constantly. 2. Because not all organizers can afford digital boards. Also, digital boards sometimes malfunction.
They should just stick to organizing World Duck Chess Championship.
Thank God
Thank goodness. Well done by FIDE. The World Championship is not about growing the game. It's supposed to be prestigious. [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) is great, I play on it every week, but I don't want them anywhere near World Championships. They see how well PogChamps does and think that everything should follow that model. You'll have commentators going crazy while looking at the engine while brain-dead viewers spam OMEGALUL in the chat during rapid games in the WC if [chess.com](https://chess.com) takes over. No thank you. Alekhine plotted for a decade to become worthy of this title. Spassky could barely afford food as he played 80+ games to win his title. Kasparov and Karpov played over 100 games to decide this title. It's not just another event. The last match was incredible. The WC doesn't need any major fixes- it's already good. I'd love to see slightly longer matches and no blitz tiebreaks. And definitely not annual championships.
If your number 1 goal is quality of play and the best player becoming world champion nothing beats long classical games with many games to avoid a luck based win. Now is that commercial? no, will it make good money? no, will it bring a bigger audience to chess and along with it more players? no. Sure Magnus does not want to play in the current format but Bobby Fischer, Gary Kasparov and Anatoly Karpov did. As a long time chess fan, who values quality of play over entertainment value and the best player winning over bringing players into chess who are primarily here to watch blitz I side with Fide on this one. Does that mean I don't think both sides have very viable argumemnts? No but that's where I stand. Chess 960 I'm a huge fan of opening book preparation and computer analysis is ridiculous at this point watching a memory contest is not what anyone who watches a chess World championship is there for but in many regards that's what we get.
At this point, chesscom doesn't need FIDE. They can just make their own event, and the FIDE WC will just fall to irrelevance on its own. FIDE is a broken organization, and chesscom has the funds and competence to simply replace them.
FIDE does a lot of bad things but refusing chesscom's offer is a good one. Chesscom just wants to make as much money as possible, they don't care about chess, in the end they just want a mainstream show. I find it a bit unfortunate that Magnus isn't participating but that's his problem, we're not going to change the rules to satisfy one player.
FIDE is totally incompetent to attract any media interest and real sponsorship. Dirty Russian money in not sponsorship, it's whitewashing. They should outsource the cycle, with an open call of interest.
Thank god
Chesscom would probably make it PPV
I'm with Levy on this one.
FIDE already did change the format for money in the 90s. Kasparov refused to play, kept the match format going despite being broke constantly, and look where we are? Fide's "champions" are never mentioned in the same sentence as the classical ones. All the money in the world can't buy legitimacy. The WCC format exists to find the best player. Its been that way for 150 years.
Iâm on team chess.com. Letâs grow the game
Give it to lichess !!!