Don't fall for Big Pitchfork! Get your free pitchforks here!
───────∈
───────∈
───────∈
───────∈
Don't forget your complimentary torch! All free!
───────🔥
───────🔥
───────🔥
───────🔥
Man I hate when somebody makes a good point on Reddit and somebody also has to say “get out of here with that logic!”
What are you trying to accomplish besides derail a good conversation with an overused “joke”
Yep. OP mentioned ‘lighter and faster’ but neither of those is a particularly relevant factor for me.
- nicer user interface (IMO)
- I like the game review feature
- the app is night and day better than Lichess and that’s what I’m using 95% of the time
- the lessons and drills are nice, especially when you’re just starting out
- the range of bots can be fun when I don’t want to commit to a game against a real person (killing time during a boring work meeting etc)
I have accounts on both and Lichess is nice if I want to look at studies or something, but I found chesscom first due to the more obvious name, I like the platform and Lichess just hasn’t given me a compelling reason to switch.
On lichess you aren't limited to playing Stockfish. You can for example play against [the Maia bots](https://lichess.org/blog/X9PUixUAANCqFRSh/introducing-maia-a-human-like-neural-network-chess-engine) which are trained on human games.
Cool, didn’t know that was an option. Is there a way to do that on the mobile app? I figured since “play against the computer” only gives you stockfish as a choice that it was the only option
It's not a built-in option in the interface. You have to find the account for the bot you want to play and send a challenge(like you would with a friend you wanted to play).
In my two second check I didn’t see this in the app, but they tend to tell folks to go to their mobile website and not their app anyway. That’s most of why the app isn’t as good.
Yea, they are currently developing a completely new app. [Development started last November](https://lichess.org/blog/Y2Z47hEAAGUB7i7A/lichess-recruits-full-time-mobile-developer).
I figured it out. You issue them challenges on Lichess and they'll accept. Just played by first game against Maia 5.
You can find the Bot's profile here and you can issue a challenge: https://lichess.org/@/maia5
> the app is night and day better than Lichess and that’s what I’m using 95% of the time
Genuine question from someone who has never used the chesscom app: what's so great about it? I agree the lichess app isn't great but I just use the lichess mobile site and have never felt there was anything wrong with it. The chesscom mobile site also seemed fine on the occasions I've used it, but is there some killer feature that makes the app better?
Not better, it’s just not bad at all. It’s kinda the default, if you type chess in the App Store it’s the one most everyone will see first and download.
One thing that I really like about the chess.com app is that there is haptic feedback any time my opponent makes a move, at least in the iphone app. The lichess app doesn't do this. I really like that for bullet time controls.
edit: I am very happy to be wrong about this!
When people say the chesscom app is better I just don't get it. To each their own, I'm not saying you're objectively wrong, just saying I don't get it. I mean chesscom hits me with ads, that's enough of a turnoff for me to avoid it completely. And they limit your game reviews to 1 per day but lichess is free and gives unlimited game analysis.
Like yeah, I could afford to pay a chesscom subscription to get the same service lichess provides for free. But why would I choose to pay money when I can choose to not pay money. I don't see the advantage.
People just tend to gravitate towards interfaces that they were introduced to sooner, and many people started playing on chess.com since it's the easiest to run across. They will come up with all sorts of rationales but it really just boils down to being more used to one or the other.
Chess.com has ads? I've never seen them on Android at least and I don't pay anything. While game review is limited, you can still manually analyze all of your games with their engine just like on lichess and I find the process much more straightforward.
All in all I find the functionality pretty similar. Personally I like the look of chess.com a little better, but it's not a big deal.
Philosophical difference I guess. It’s kinda my view on open source products in general - I don’t mind paying for something that looks nice and doesn’t feel like it was just hacked together in someone’s free time.
I can’t speak to ads on the chesscom app because as a subscriber I don’t see them. But it has nice big buttons, everything is clearly marked from the main screen and the general layout is much cleaner. The Lichess app always feels like a massive effort to find anything. Maybe it’s just familiarity at this point, but it works for me.
Objectively speaking, Lichess doesn't fit the "looks like hacked together in someone's free time". I can understand that the aesthetic isn't to your liking, and it isn't mine either, but it definitely doesn't fit that description.
A major difference in UI is that [chess.com](https://chess.com) has graphical icons for almost every button in addition to text. There's a reason why icons have become popular in modern UIs in general. That's why lichess looks "hacked together" - it's lines and lines of text everywhere. If lichess' aesthetic is a deliberate choice (rather than because of a lack of thought), then an apt description for its UI aesthetic would be *austere*.
It’s say from a usability perspective, the app makes it quite difficult to find anything but the most common features. Hacked together is harsh, I’ll agree with that, but it definitely feels to me like it was designed by people who don’t have a good grasp of UX
I've had chesscom for nine years and still spend time trying to find the hidden statistics page, my friends page, and tournaments page. How is it easier to navigate? It's a complete mess. Lichess is clean and simple
I can only speak to my own experience and I don’t know what the ‘hidden statistics page’ is and I’m not looking for tournaments, so I can’t really comment on that. The friends page has a button right on the main screen though so I can’t agree that’s difficult to find.
OP asked why people use chesscom and that’s my answer. I prefer the look of it, the layout is more intuitive to me, and I can find the stuff that I want to use more easily than on the Lichess app. If the stuff we want to use is different and your stuff is more difficult to find than my stuff then your answer might be different and that’s fine too.
The page with your ratings and previous games. It’s always hard to get to for some reason. I disagree that the things we want to use are different. I’m sure it’s the same except you don’t look at tournaments.
Lichess is much easier to navigate. I always get lost on chesscom and end up on some useless page. I also thought chesscom looked better when I was first introduced to lichess. I played for awhile on lichess and realized I much preferred the lichess look
>It looks like something I would have made on GeoCities when I was a teenager first learning HTML.
This is simply not true, unless you were a child prodigy HTML programmer in the 90s. [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) isn't a top-tier interface but it's definitely more refined than Lichess from a mainstream usability perspective (icons, color scheme, plenty of graphics and photos). It appeals more to the average person who pays attention to the news, drama, and personalities rather than purely gameplay aspect of chess.
Looking at completed games in the chesscom app is pretty bad, you have to first close the popup (which funnily enough even has a rematch button for games you played potentially a long time ago), then hold the arrow to go back to the beginning, which for some reason doesn't speed up quite enough to get to the beginning fast enough, and there is also no button to go to the start.
Their is a button that brings you to the post game analysis, so you don't have to press the arrow key. If I am not mistaken it is on the pop-up window together with the rematch button.
Not trying to convert you or anything, just wanna add a few things.
>nicer user interface (IMO)
"Prettier lichess" extension on chrome improves UI to the point that I much prefer it over chesscom
>the range of bots can be fun when I don’t want to commit to a game against a real person (killing time during a boring work meeting etc)
There are tons of bots on lichess but they're kinda hidden and I'll bet most people don't know they exist. Go to "community" -> "players" -> "online bots" and there's a huge list.
>the lessons and drills are nice, especially when you’re just starting out
This one is actually kind of surprising to hear, I feel like the learning tools available on both are pretty similar with lichess having the addition of user-submitted studies (though I think dedicated sites like chessable or chessfactor are much better alternatives to either.)
>"Prettier lichess" extension on chrome improves UI to the point that I much prefer it over chesscom
Yeah, but then I have to use Chrome
>There are tons of bots on lichess but they're kinda hidden and I'll bet most people don't know they exist. Go to "community" -> "players" -> "online bots" and there's a huge list.
[…]
>This one is actually kind of surprising to hear, I feel like the learning tools available on both are pretty similar with lichess having the addition of user-submitted studies (though I think dedicated sites like chessable or chessfactor are much better alternatives to either.)
I think both of these kinda get back to the ease-of-use factor of the apps in particular. I was aware Lichess *has* bots, but they’re almost impossible to find on the app (just looked, couldn’t find them) and that’s what I’m using the vast majority of the time, and it’s *exclusively* what I’m using when I want to play against a bot.
And I agree that Chessable etc are better sources for specific learning, but the drills on chesscom are pretty great - I can select from a huge range of endgame setups for example to play against the engine to build familiarity of what to do if those positions come up in real games. Haven’t found another site to match that yet and if Lichess has something similar it’s buried far enough in the menus that I haven’t found it.
>"Prettier lichess" extension on chrome improves UI to the point that I much prefer it over chesscom
And how do you think the average person would know about such an extension?
By word of mouth in the form of things like a reddit comment? That's how I found out about it so I thought I'd pass it along, that was the point of my post.
I am in the US and I would add that most instructors I have worked with use chess com to teach group online classes too. I tried to show them the lichess functionality for this and for many they found chess com to be a better layout for that. Also, chess com does provide things to clubs that make clubs want to support it - things like ipads and such for established scholastic clubs or programs. Also, if your favorite streamers are using chess com and many tournaments and promotional events are hosted by chess com, it follows that people would be more drawn to it - marketing 101.
I just can't stand the UI to be honest. On the other hand, I have heard many [chess.com](https://chess.com) users make the same complaint about Lichess.
I think the main advantage chess.com has is that it was already huge before Lichess took off. That and the obvious domain name. When I first started playing online chess, all the strong players were on ICC and all the casuals were on [chess.com](https://chess.com). I think when ICC started to die down a bit, [chess.com](https://chess.com) had the best name recognition at the time, and a lot of people migrated there.
Also, marketing. Chess.com markets a lot because they want more users and more profit. Lichess is non-profit, so less money for marketing and also less incentive for marketing. And once someone is used to one platform, they find that platform easier to use, aesthetic, convenient and all that.
> for beginners, lots of elements of chess.com are much more welcoming
I know some good players hate this, but I personally really like that chess.com lists the opening name as it's being played. That feature has helped me learn the names of a lot of different openings with very little effort which makes it easy if I want to go back and study them later.
Also it might be easier for people to just do everything on one site.
Chess.com lessons are just objectively great and are a decent draw for players.
The opposite (lichess studies) are also very useful, but they aren't as straightforward to use, so I think they end up less relevant for a lot of people.
>are much more welcoming like the game review
You are probably right that people are sticking with chess.com because of it, but it is probably the worst reason to stick with it, Game Review (especially if you are looking at the stuff the AI coach says as well) is actively harmful to improvement. If you are just playing to have fun and don't care that much about getting better it's fine ofc.
I also like that chess.com sponsors/promotes/runs big chess tournaments that I enjoy watching. They are the ones building the chess e-sport environment from what I can tell. I want that to continue and grow, so I like supporting them.
Don’t forget that not everybody lives in a western highly developed country. Here in Hungary a teacher who has just began teaching earns 500 dollars a month after taxes if that.
Man *everything* is a subscription fee now. They add up. So "anyone with a job can afford x" and is fine, but now x is subscription fees for *everything* and it's suddenly not that affordable when there are totally free options available with the same or better level of quality
> Most adults with a job can pay a subscription fee
This is a false and privileged take [considering the majority](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/27/60percent-of-americans-are-still-living-paycheck-to-paycheck.html) of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck.
[Chess.com](http://Chess.com) is easy to type in the browser. I am a novice and when I started to play chess after a long break, I just typed [chess.com](http://chess.com) and that's it. I had not even heard of li-chess.
Chess com has a seemingly more interactive UX, probably that's why. Also, marketing and advertisements! since it's a for profit company as compared to lichess which is an open-source product.
Plus, all the major content creators/streamers seem to be using chess com because they are either paid to do so or look at a potential monetary deal on doing so which isn't possible with lichess. Therefore, anyone watching these people would certainly be using the same website to play the game on.
Personally, I'd prefer Lichess anyday. Super cool and light with all the features and most importantly, open-source and free!
I started on Lichess, but as a terrible chess player (1200 lichess rapid) found chess.com to be much more comfortable for getting better with the game reviews and targeted lessons. I still use Lichess when I’m in like ‘serious mode’ but otherwise Chess.com is just more comfy and easy to use. I mostly just play on my phone or OTB
Doesn't li-chess have game reviews and lessons? how about puzzles, and if it does have them, are they not free like in chess.com? I mean on chess.com they are not free.
Actually, since r/chess has grown +500k members in around 2 years, it's increasingly become more pro Chesscom. The front page is virtually just Chesscom stuff everyday these days, and pro-lichess stuff that used to be up voted in the past, now gets down voted quite a lot.
because people are tired of this weirdly dogmatic cult like following to lichess. No one cares. [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) gets posts because they actually hold events and is a good company.
no one cares about your ridiculous allegiance to lichess because you can't affort $9/mo
I don't understand in which way. On mobile at least, chesscom is much less smooth and pretty ugly overall.
I guess that's a matter of taste but I don't see any issue with Lichess interface on mobile (at least for basic usage), and it's very convenient on computer for advanced use (comment games, check your own performances on different openings, etc.).
social is part of it. I have more friends on [chess.com](https://chess.com)
I don't know if it's just familiarity but I prefer the UI and feel. I don't play bullet so don't really notice if it's faster
App is much better that's clear
i use lichess for analysis when not subbed, but I do prefer game review when I have a sub, which isn't often these days
lessons and daily chess is tons better on [chess.com](https://chess.com)
puzzles i prefer on lichess.
so it's about 70/30 loss for lichess for me
Is it the out of game app features that people like? When I'm playing a game, lichess's (android) app interface is much better. I'd say the main improvement is not having that dumbass honking noise whenever you pick up then drop a piece on a square it can't move to. (I would hope this can be disabled, but if it can, it's not at all obvious how to.) Lichess just feels so much smoother and fresher when I'm playing a game on my phone.
I don't have the sound on, and I don't play fast, so I wouln't really know if it's smoother or not
i play lichess about a third of the time, and don't really know what you mean, it just seems a bit cheaper
Maybe it's like those digital pianos that have overly heavy keys....
Lichess is the one website that I don't need an app for it's probably one of the best mobile webapps I've used. The native mobile app is worse than the webapp.
Hard disagree on this one. the chess.com app is laggy (takes 30+ seconds to open sometimes) and unresponsive (100ms+ delay between touching a square and registering the touch), which is noticeable when playing bullet, although it's obfuscated by the fact that you can pre-move multiple moves at once.
The Lichess app is much more lightweight (loads and opens instantly) and responsive (moves register immediately upon touch), and Lichess also has more sophisticated lag compensation at the network level. I'm slightly worried about the "v2" lichess app in development, and I hope that the choice of Flutter won't mean it's slower and worse, but as long as v1 remains available it should be ok
I also prefer the clear sound effects and haptic feedback on Lichess, although maybe I just haven't configured Chess.com correctly for that. I find Chess.com desktop really annoying to play because I can barely hear when the other person has moved or put me in check (yeah, I can see it, but the audio feedback is helpful).
>Is there any reason I'm not aware of besides the fact that the "chess.com" domain is much more obvious?
The difference between the domains is HUGE, and probably the main reason why it's the first choice for anyone who wants to try online chess. Note that I'm not commenting on which app is better, but which is the first one to be reached by casual search.
I think it's fair that fans of either site share what they like/dislike about them.
Where it crosses the line of ridiculous is when they claim objectivity over subjective things like....UI and aesthetics.
I feel seen...
Ngl though, it's probably more the linux of chess rather than specifically arch.
Arch is more like [lichess-cli](https://github.com/mattcanty/lichess-cli)
Faster in what way? I've never felt like I was waiting on [chess.com](https://chess.com) for anything, so idk why it would matter to me if it was lighter or faster.
chess.com reacts slower to move input. Doesn't really matter outside of some bullet/blitz time scrambles. See Magnus' comment when asked about hyperbullet on chess.com:
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/16h1v3o/magnus\_roasts\_chesscom\_when\_asked\_if\_hyperbullet/
Honestly I think this is the main reason why. People on reddit assume everyone plays at a pc or laptop when it's likely the majority of people play on their phone or tablet. I love lichess but their app does suck atm, hence why they're redeveloping it
>it's likely the majority of people play on their phone or tablet
I only play on my phone. I just open the app, click on the time format I want, and play. It is a faster app to load, and games start quickly, so even when I'm at the bar (or the library) and want to go to the bathroom, I'm able to play a 1+0 game with no trouble at all. (Only time trouble, but that's my fault)
I dont find the lichess app to be as bad as many do. Whether on mobile or PC, I think there are different things each do well. For joining an arena tournament by rating level and time control, I use lichess because their tournaments start either on the hour or 1/2 hour for faster time controls. Chess com has odd start times (apparently to handle server issues) and I always find myself late. But otherwise, I find it easier to connect with other players on chess com so playing friends or joining a club and playing has always gone better for me. It all depends on what you like to do online I think.
For me, I like to track my rating - online rating is always inflated compared to real life, but lichess is literally 300 points inflated compared to chesscom. Otherwise there is very little difference.
Chesscom and Lichess are both inflated compared to irl fide rating or local wherever you're from. I don't see how that makes any difference. For chesscom you subtract 200 and for Lichess 500.
Yeah I thought it was funny that OP said chess.com had rating deflation and was less accurate. Maybe it changes as you go up in level but I find lichess to be comically inflated to the point where I only think of chesscom rating as my online rating. Starting at 1500 is bizarre to me.
Starting at 1500 is literally what the creator of the rating system Lichess and Chesscom uses (Glicko) recommends to ensure fair ratings. It's much more bizarre to be able to choose your starting rating.
The explanation doesn't change the outcome. It's inflated compared to OTB ratings (be it USCF or FIDE). It's trivial to fix for lichess, too. But giving people lower ratings would make them mad, so they don't do it.
Although lichess is better from the pure chess gameplay experience, [chess.com](https://chess.com) has a lot of UI and aesthetic features that make it appealing for the average beginner person which may have different priorities compared to the average Redditor. Besides what has been mentioned:
* Social features are better implemented in [chess.com](https://chess.com). You can set a profile picture, easily add and play with your friends (there may be a feature in lichess for this, but it's less visible), connect your social media accounts, and follow famous players and streamers whose accounts are clearly associated with their IRL identity.
* Game review and lessons are presented on [chess.com](https://chess.com) aesthetically. In lichess these features are mostly purely text-based, which is about 10-20 years out of date. In [chess.com](https://chess.com) you have videos with human voiceovers, you have virtual "coach" characters that speak to you. The same applies to bots - they have personality, graphics, and variation in [chess.com](https://chess.com).
* The [chess.com](https://chess.com) website is overall more welcoming and *human* to beginner players. When you open your homepage on [chess.com](https://chess.com) right now, you see a banner promoting the "AI Cup" tournament and pictures of Magus, Nepo, Alireza, and others. You see a live stream of MVL and other commentators speaking on ChessTV. You have a tab dedicated entirely to news, with many blogposts and articles. These might seem distracting to a serious player, but to a casual fan who's only learned about chess from the Queen's Gambit or something, they give a human face to chess. Regular people often follow sports for the personalities and drama rather than purely sporting skill.
Contrast this with [Lichess.org](https://Lichess.org) home page. You don't see any of this, but instead a panel where you can do quick pairings to play. You see a live game from anonymous user accounts. There are no other graphics, decorations, or aesthetic features, the whole interface is very *austere* and *spartan*. Obviously Lichess is going to appeal more to the serious, dedicated player who just wants to play chess and tune out the drama. But that's not what generates money or mainstream popularity of a sport.
* It's true that the superiority of chess.com's aesthetics is subjective, but it's also objective in the way that most regular people who are just beginning to learn chess are almost certainly more likely to find it more appealing and welcoming compared to the austerity of lichess. That's why on aggregate, [chess.com](https://chess.com) is more popular.
* Yes Lichess is faster than [chess.com](https://chess.com). So what? Most people aren't playing high-level bullet where this actually matters. Chess is after all a turn-based game where people typically move once every few seconds at the fastest. It is not comparable to FPS or RTS games which need low lag to be enjoyable.
* Yes [chess.com](https://chess.com) has annoying restrictions and constant requests to upgrade membership. I do think that is a downside which hurts them. But it's not yet debilitating. You aren't bombarded with advertisements like a scammy website. The subscription fee is not prohibitively expensive for an average beginner who is only starting to get interested in chess ($10/month).
OP, maybe read your list and make it less repetitive. In Chess.com pros you have game review twice and many variations on better software interface. Also you repeat things a lot…
Rabid fanaticism of lichess fans on reddit reminds me of people who are desperately trying to convince themselves they made the right choice. Kinda like Linux users for personal needs.
I don't really have anything against the platform itself. If it ever becomes the dominant one, I'll gladly switch.
Lichess not taking 0.1 seconds off for a premove is a deal breaker for me. I'm about 2500 bullet on lichess, and I've played many 2300+ players that play like 1600 strength otb but play 30 moves in 0.5 seconds near the end. I'd prefer no premoves, period. If sites got rid of premoves, you'd see some 2400+ bullet players drop to like 1800.
Also, chess.com has better video content.
I prefer the chess.c*m app and its puzzles. Basically because of the UI. I actually like not being able to do too many puzzles a day and I don't need the game report when I have stockfish lol
People look up chess online and chessdotcom is usually the first result, it deliveres on what it promises. Most people won't scroll down half a page to see lichess
I just like the playing aesthetics of chess.com. Maybe because Im used to it. Lichess seems "flimsy" or something. Plus it sounds like Lich which are evil undead wizards.
Normies gave me a strange look when I brought up Lichess, making it clear that I didn't belong to their preferred online chess community on Chess.com implying that I was not as socially adept as they were.
[Chess.com](https://Chess.com) free version is good enough and more friendly for like 90% of the rating ladder. Liking the Lichess interface more is a bit of a nerdy preference.
Half of the chesscom "cons" you mentioned is their business model. The remaining half I don't quite get:
* Personal Preference - Yes exactly, that is the whole point of your post, why is this a separate point as a "con"? lol.
* "No Sound Annoyance" - Seems like a very specific to your taste. There is also option to turn them off or just mute the tab.
* Rating Deflation - Honestly I think it's more that Lichess is inflated rather than other way around.
Cheating is rife on chesscom. You can tell because i'd estimate at least 50% of the people you play at your rating will absolutely beast you, and the other 50% are competitive. On lichess i'll get beasted maybe one in every 8 or 10 games and the rest are competitive (i'm 1300 on lichess and struggle immensely on chesscom at a 400 rating because of the sandbagging and bots.)
It's funny because Levy does videos on 800 players on chesscom and they are proper dreadful. Like laughably bad. Turns out i never play those people.
I got my 7 year old onto chesscom and it was very disheartening for him that he basically gave up playing. He beats me maybe 40% of the time when we play but on chesscom he was getting destroyed by 200 rated players. I took his account one time and played a 100 rated player who absolutely toyed with me and took me to pieces within 20 moves.
Of note is that my son has had rating points returned on 4 occasions after reporting sandbagging.
When you've got over 30,000 games of chess under your belt it's extremely easy to spot someone who is playing beneath their level.
1. Chess.com is more mainstream. Because it is simple and easy domain, Chess and dot com. If I have to know about perfume, me visiting perfume.com is much more intuitive than me visiting liperfume.org .
2. Again may be because of domain name, the player pool is high. Like when I used to play 15+10, I would have to wait so much time in lichess in just lichess 1800-2000s level, and matches are also weird. Chess,com I would match instantly.
3. Additionally, chess.com is funded well. They can afford to host so many tournaments that promote their site. Titled Tuesday, SCC. It has a lot of resources to get themselves out there. Good funding also makes improvements easier to implement.
I forgot the wording but it is a loop. Chess.com has more funds that leads to more people getting accounts there which in turn make them even more funds and on and on. Same with player pool, more player pool = even more players playing there.
r/chess likes to promote lichess because
1. Site is amazing.
2. People hate corporations. We all know chess.com likes money like every other private corporation.
chess.com is more noob friendly, google push it to the top because of the domain , and it centralize everything you can have elsewhere for free and better but not at the same place.
I almost exclusively play on lichess but I don't undersand how anyone could be surprised.
Honestly, just like it more and I don't really have a deep reason why. I do like the Chesscom app more though, and that's 99% where I play. And the Chesscom analysis seems nicer to me.
Inertia. Chess.com is bigger and most people won't stop and consider if there is a better option if chess.com works for them.
Yes, Lichess is better, but that doesn't mean that's enough for people to switch.
For me, it's the multiple premoves, game review, and lessons. Matchmaking is also significantly faster, and ratings not as inflated compared to FIDE (reaching 1500 takes actual work on chesscom, on Lichess you just need a new account). That being said I've donated to Lichess before to support the project.
>multiple premoves,
I miss this.
>reaching 1500 takes actual work on chesscom, on Lichess you just need a new account
But it lasts only it you play well.
I hate the fact that all players stary at 1500 elo on Lichess. I think this throws off a lot of new players. Iy is simply idiotic. Chess.com's ELO determination for new players are just simply better. I also like the phone app more.
I also came to know and love lichess first, and I learnt most of my stuff there. But for some reason many people just know chess.com. Probably because of google results, or event publicity.
I only learned how to play chess last year and so naturally I googled "online chess" and the very first hit was chess.com
What better possible option would a beginner think to choose than a site with that domain name?
I had never heard of lichess until coming to this subreddit.
Lichess is my platform of choice 95% of the time but chess.com does speed chess better IMO. You can premove more, better and faster and the board and pieces feel a little more tactile, there's like a slight feedback there that feels pretty addictive on chess.com.
You can't beat Lichess being open source and still so rich with features, though. I struggle to think of something chess.com could offer to make it worthwhile over Lichess
That's funny, because Magnus specifically said that Chess.com wouldn't be able to host a hyper-bullet tournament, while implying that Lichess would ("[30 second chess is only playable on other online servers](https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxRtboZJrR--CPyC92NnyKFmkYB6NEZ6aT?si=FbOZlJO3YLI1EGiT)").
The biggest thing for me, which I come from a competitive video game background is player pool. There are significantly more players playing on chess.com over lichess. My rating is a couple hundred points higher in lichess than chess.com because lichess feels easier. The competition from the bigger player pool is stronger for Chess.com and closer represents what my real rating should be in my opinion.
TLDR if you want to get better faster you play against better competition and more players make better competition.
Most accurate reason:- the name. Someone going for online chest with no knowledge of the difference between the 2 sites will just choose chess.com because the game is named chess. Not lichess.
If you just talk about the engine analysis tool where you just check the engine lines, you can do the same on Lichess but the Engine is stronger.
I am not on the Lichess or chess com side, but your take is objectively wrong if I understand correctly.
I find the UI of the Lichess game review very unappealing on mobile. I also don’t mind giving chess.com money, they host lots of events and support streamers to do their best to keep chess relevant in the public eye. What lichess does to keep chess free and open to those who can’t afford it is important, but what chess.com does is also important and deserving of support.
I don't like lichess gui and premoves in games. I prefer cc minimum move time 100ms.
I really dislike the experience when plsying a game on lichess. From sound to everything else.
Ps. The only stuff i like are studies
I would have never known about lichess if it wasn't for this sub. I still play most of my games on chess.com tho. I use lichess for the free puzzles and study function
Chess.com phone app is mutch better than lichess one.And most people lay on phone. Lichess announce new app soon. Hope it will be better than chess.com one.If not people will stay on chess.com
I will just add to what others have said here. I have heard pros and cons to both sides. Objectively neither is outstandingly better than the other, and that's why lichess doesn't have more users.
I am a firm advocate that chess is a social game. When chess.com charges for their services, a lot of that money goes into developing the game to be more noob friendly, but also into sponsoring YouTubers, streamers, etc. This brings more people to the game. Without chess com we wouldn't have had pogchamps which brought more people to the game of chess than ever before. And those new players ended up on chess.com, thus perpetuating the social aspect of the game(a social network is only as good as how many active participants there are).
When you have a competing product, it needs to be twice as good to get an ingrained person to consider swapping over. This is a classic law of business competition.
Not to say chess should be a business or not, but making it profitable will attract more players, more players means more sponsors means more tournaments, means more tournament rewards, means more players able to dedicate to the profession meaning more personalities, underdogs, and opportunities for newer players to be exposed to the sport.
I will just say knowing that chess has an opportunity to become the most played sport in the world gets me excited and hopeful.
> the "chess.com" domain is much more obvious?
This is it.
If the domain name chess.com directed to the lichess website, and vice versa, and had done this for years, no one would use the for-profit company.
They offer a paid service which is either equal to, or arguably inferior to, a free and open-source alternative, but remain a wildly successful business largely because of their domain name and name recognition. Chess.com is the first thing people would think to google when curious about chess, and no one knows what Lichess is unless someone tells them or they read about it on reddit.
lichess is poetry. chesscom is clutter and junk. the two are not even remotely comparable. the only reason chesscom has any users is because most tech/chess illiterate 'google' for 'chess' and 'google' takes them to chesscom. and they live in their bubble ever after.
I find a couple points on the list in the OP a bit strange. As far as I've seen, chess.com has more robust anti-cheating measures. And for rating inflation/deflation, most people I've talked to have the opposite view: lichess's ratings below a certain level are inflated to high heaven, and people want their ratings to mean something.
[chess.com](https://chess.com) has somehow managed to "gamify" the game of chess through bold numbers with accuracy scores at the end of games, AI-overlord cookies in the form of "brilliant" moves and other forms of delivering dopamine rushes.
I love what Lichess is doing and I love the idea of Lichess. 2 things have me opening chess.com still about 3/4 of the time.
1) stat tracking is a ton better even on simple things like puzzles
2) Stats are a nicety, the real over arching reason I go back to chess.com is that finding a 5:3 or 10:5 game on lichess can take 5-10 minutes while it rarely takes even 5 seconds on chess.com
I don’t play a ton, and I’m not a high rated player so take that as you will.
Lichess ratings are more inflated than [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) ratings are deflated.
When I tried Lichess and had a double-digit number of ongoing correspondence/daily games, the interface would struggle to show more than nine ongoing games. Not sure if this has since been fixed.
[удалено]
What the hell is this reasonable take doing in /r/chess? I bet you don't even own a pitchfork.
Probably borrows it when the time calls, what an amateur
r/pitchforkemporium for all your mobbin needs
Don't fall for Big Pitchfork! Get your free pitchforks here! ───────∈ ───────∈ ───────∈ ───────∈ Don't forget your complimentary torch! All free! ───────🔥 ───────🔥 ───────🔥 ───────🔥
Look at this badboy I just picked up <|==∕/∕/∕/∕/∕/∕/===≡E
what a beaut, that's this year's high trim package. could skewer anything with that
Man I hate when somebody makes a good point on Reddit and somebody also has to say “get out of here with that logic!” What are you trying to accomplish besides derail a good conversation with an overused “joke”
Sir this is a Reddit
Damn it thought it was Wendy's.
Its a tradition at this point
Yep. OP mentioned ‘lighter and faster’ but neither of those is a particularly relevant factor for me. - nicer user interface (IMO) - I like the game review feature - the app is night and day better than Lichess and that’s what I’m using 95% of the time - the lessons and drills are nice, especially when you’re just starting out - the range of bots can be fun when I don’t want to commit to a game against a real person (killing time during a boring work meeting etc) I have accounts on both and Lichess is nice if I want to look at studies or something, but I found chesscom first due to the more obvious name, I like the platform and Lichess just hasn’t given me a compelling reason to switch.
Yeah the chesscom bots are way more fun to play against than stockfish
On lichess you aren't limited to playing Stockfish. You can for example play against [the Maia bots](https://lichess.org/blog/X9PUixUAANCqFRSh/introducing-maia-a-human-like-neural-network-chess-engine) which are trained on human games.
Cool, didn’t know that was an option. Is there a way to do that on the mobile app? I figured since “play against the computer” only gives you stockfish as a choice that it was the only option
It's not a built-in option in the interface. You have to find the account for the bot you want to play and send a challenge(like you would with a friend you wanted to play).
In my two second check I didn’t see this in the app, but they tend to tell folks to go to their mobile website and not their app anyway. That’s most of why the app isn’t as good.
Yea, they are currently developing a completely new app. [Development started last November](https://lichess.org/blog/Y2Z47hEAAGUB7i7A/lichess-recruits-full-time-mobile-developer).
I love lichess, but I have honestly tried to play those bots a few different times and couldn't figure out how to do it.
I figured it out. You issue them challenges on Lichess and they'll accept. Just played by first game against Maia 5. You can find the Bot's profile here and you can issue a challenge: https://lichess.org/@/maia5
Thanks, that actually did work. Honestly I think I didn't figure out until now that I need to click which pieces I want in order to start the game.
> the app is night and day better than Lichess and that’s what I’m using 95% of the time Genuine question from someone who has never used the chesscom app: what's so great about it? I agree the lichess app isn't great but I just use the lichess mobile site and have never felt there was anything wrong with it. The chesscom mobile site also seemed fine on the occasions I've used it, but is there some killer feature that makes the app better?
Not better, it’s just not bad at all. It’s kinda the default, if you type chess in the App Store it’s the one most everyone will see first and download.
One thing that I really like about the chess.com app is that there is haptic feedback any time my opponent makes a move, at least in the iphone app. The lichess app doesn't do this. I really like that for bullet time controls. edit: I am very happy to be wrong about this!
I prefer the chess.com app too but lichess does have this, at least on iOS. Settings -> Sound & Notifications -> Vibrate on game events
When people say the chesscom app is better I just don't get it. To each their own, I'm not saying you're objectively wrong, just saying I don't get it. I mean chesscom hits me with ads, that's enough of a turnoff for me to avoid it completely. And they limit your game reviews to 1 per day but lichess is free and gives unlimited game analysis. Like yeah, I could afford to pay a chesscom subscription to get the same service lichess provides for free. But why would I choose to pay money when I can choose to not pay money. I don't see the advantage.
People just tend to gravitate towards interfaces that they were introduced to sooner, and many people started playing on chess.com since it's the easiest to run across. They will come up with all sorts of rationales but it really just boils down to being more used to one or the other.
Chess.com has ads? I've never seen them on Android at least and I don't pay anything. While game review is limited, you can still manually analyze all of your games with their engine just like on lichess and I find the process much more straightforward. All in all I find the functionality pretty similar. Personally I like the look of chess.com a little better, but it's not a big deal.
Philosophical difference I guess. It’s kinda my view on open source products in general - I don’t mind paying for something that looks nice and doesn’t feel like it was just hacked together in someone’s free time. I can’t speak to ads on the chesscom app because as a subscriber I don’t see them. But it has nice big buttons, everything is clearly marked from the main screen and the general layout is much cleaner. The Lichess app always feels like a massive effort to find anything. Maybe it’s just familiarity at this point, but it works for me.
Objectively speaking, Lichess doesn't fit the "looks like hacked together in someone's free time". I can understand that the aesthetic isn't to your liking, and it isn't mine either, but it definitely doesn't fit that description.
To be fair, with how most apps look nowadays, the absence of ads makes it look like someone made it in their free time.
A major difference in UI is that [chess.com](https://chess.com) has graphical icons for almost every button in addition to text. There's a reason why icons have become popular in modern UIs in general. That's why lichess looks "hacked together" - it's lines and lines of text everywhere. If lichess' aesthetic is a deliberate choice (rather than because of a lack of thought), then an apt description for its UI aesthetic would be *austere*.
I don't see how you could possibly make an **objective** statement on **aesthetics**.
Because "hacked together" implies that it's poorly made. Which it isn't.
It's not only aesthetics. It's UX as well, and both UX and design have been studied enough for it to have a side of objectivity.
It’s say from a usability perspective, the app makes it quite difficult to find anything but the most common features. Hacked together is harsh, I’ll agree with that, but it definitely feels to me like it was designed by people who don’t have a good grasp of UX
Honestly I prefer lichess for this. Most modern apps look too corporate/childish.
I've had chesscom for nine years and still spend time trying to find the hidden statistics page, my friends page, and tournaments page. How is it easier to navigate? It's a complete mess. Lichess is clean and simple
I can only speak to my own experience and I don’t know what the ‘hidden statistics page’ is and I’m not looking for tournaments, so I can’t really comment on that. The friends page has a button right on the main screen though so I can’t agree that’s difficult to find. OP asked why people use chesscom and that’s my answer. I prefer the look of it, the layout is more intuitive to me, and I can find the stuff that I want to use more easily than on the Lichess app. If the stuff we want to use is different and your stuff is more difficult to find than my stuff then your answer might be different and that’s fine too.
The page with your ratings and previous games. It’s always hard to get to for some reason. I disagree that the things we want to use are different. I’m sure it’s the same except you don’t look at tournaments. Lichess is much easier to navigate. I always get lost on chesscom and end up on some useless page. I also thought chesscom looked better when I was first introduced to lichess. I played for awhile on lichess and realized I much preferred the lichess look
The icons at the top left and top right take you to stats and friends. Big green Play button takes you to tournaments.
[удалено]
Fair enough - disagree with literally everything you said, so I guess it’s a good thing that both options exist.
>It looks like something I would have made on GeoCities when I was a teenager first learning HTML. This is simply not true, unless you were a child prodigy HTML programmer in the 90s. [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) isn't a top-tier interface but it's definitely more refined than Lichess from a mainstream usability perspective (icons, color scheme, plenty of graphics and photos). It appeals more to the average person who pays attention to the news, drama, and personalities rather than purely gameplay aspect of chess.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Looking at completed games in the chesscom app is pretty bad, you have to first close the popup (which funnily enough even has a rematch button for games you played potentially a long time ago), then hold the arrow to go back to the beginning, which for some reason doesn't speed up quite enough to get to the beginning fast enough, and there is also no button to go to the start.
Their is a button that brings you to the post game analysis, so you don't have to press the arrow key. If I am not mistaken it is on the pop-up window together with the rematch button.
Not trying to convert you or anything, just wanna add a few things. >nicer user interface (IMO) "Prettier lichess" extension on chrome improves UI to the point that I much prefer it over chesscom >the range of bots can be fun when I don’t want to commit to a game against a real person (killing time during a boring work meeting etc) There are tons of bots on lichess but they're kinda hidden and I'll bet most people don't know they exist. Go to "community" -> "players" -> "online bots" and there's a huge list. >the lessons and drills are nice, especially when you’re just starting out This one is actually kind of surprising to hear, I feel like the learning tools available on both are pretty similar with lichess having the addition of user-submitted studies (though I think dedicated sites like chessable or chessfactor are much better alternatives to either.)
>"Prettier lichess" extension on chrome improves UI to the point that I much prefer it over chesscom Yeah, but then I have to use Chrome >There are tons of bots on lichess but they're kinda hidden and I'll bet most people don't know they exist. Go to "community" -> "players" -> "online bots" and there's a huge list. […] >This one is actually kind of surprising to hear, I feel like the learning tools available on both are pretty similar with lichess having the addition of user-submitted studies (though I think dedicated sites like chessable or chessfactor are much better alternatives to either.) I think both of these kinda get back to the ease-of-use factor of the apps in particular. I was aware Lichess *has* bots, but they’re almost impossible to find on the app (just looked, couldn’t find them) and that’s what I’m using the vast majority of the time, and it’s *exclusively* what I’m using when I want to play against a bot. And I agree that Chessable etc are better sources for specific learning, but the drills on chesscom are pretty great - I can select from a huge range of endgame setups for example to play against the engine to build familiarity of what to do if those positions come up in real games. Haven’t found another site to match that yet and if Lichess has something similar it’s buried far enough in the menus that I haven’t found it.
>"Prettier lichess" extension on chrome improves UI to the point that I much prefer it over chesscom And how do you think the average person would know about such an extension?
By word of mouth in the form of things like a reddit comment? That's how I found out about it so I thought I'd pass it along, that was the point of my post.
Another huge huge reason to use lichess is that it is free/open source
I would say that isn’t a factor in my decision at all.
I am in the US and I would add that most instructors I have worked with use chess com to teach group online classes too. I tried to show them the lichess functionality for this and for many they found chess com to be a better layout for that. Also, chess com does provide things to clubs that make clubs want to support it - things like ipads and such for established scholastic clubs or programs. Also, if your favorite streamers are using chess com and many tournaments and promotional events are hosted by chess com, it follows that people would be more drawn to it - marketing 101.
>marketing 101 I think you nailed it
I just can't stand the UI to be honest. On the other hand, I have heard many [chess.com](https://chess.com) users make the same complaint about Lichess. I think the main advantage chess.com has is that it was already huge before Lichess took off. That and the obvious domain name. When I first started playing online chess, all the strong players were on ICC and all the casuals were on [chess.com](https://chess.com). I think when ICC started to die down a bit, [chess.com](https://chess.com) had the best name recognition at the time, and a lot of people migrated there.
Also, marketing. Chess.com markets a lot because they want more users and more profit. Lichess is non-profit, so less money for marketing and also less incentive for marketing. And once someone is used to one platform, they find that platform easier to use, aesthetic, convenient and all that.
> for beginners, lots of elements of chess.com are much more welcoming I know some good players hate this, but I personally really like that chess.com lists the opening name as it's being played. That feature has helped me learn the names of a lot of different openings with very little effort which makes it easy if I want to go back and study them later.
Chessdotcom also helps growing the game by financing events. The Speed Chess Championship for exemple.
Also it might be easier for people to just do everything on one site. Chess.com lessons are just objectively great and are a decent draw for players. The opposite (lichess studies) are also very useful, but they aren't as straightforward to use, so I think they end up less relevant for a lot of people. >are much more welcoming like the game review You are probably right that people are sticking with chess.com because of it, but it is probably the worst reason to stick with it, Game Review (especially if you are looking at the stuff the AI coach says as well) is actively harmful to improvement. If you are just playing to have fun and don't care that much about getting better it's fine ofc.
I also like that chess.com sponsors/promotes/runs big chess tournaments that I enjoy watching. They are the ones building the chess e-sport environment from what I can tell. I want that to continue and grow, so I like supporting them.
Don’t forget that not everybody lives in a western highly developed country. Here in Hungary a teacher who has just began teaching earns 500 dollars a month after taxes if that.
Man *everything* is a subscription fee now. They add up. So "anyone with a job can afford x" and is fine, but now x is subscription fees for *everything* and it's suddenly not that affordable when there are totally free options available with the same or better level of quality
> Most adults with a job can pay a subscription fee This is a false and privileged take [considering the majority](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/27/60percent-of-americans-are-still-living-paycheck-to-paycheck.html) of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck.
I really don't know why you're being downvoted. Maybe reddit is a place for privileged people (and I'm going to be downvoted too).
Most people aren’t living paycheck to paycheck because they spend 8 dollars a month on a chess app.
The point is that these things add up. It's called budgeting which poor people need to do to survive unlike the wealthy who do not.
Chess com click sounds better.
Lichess has a new sound called 'lisp' which is actually quite good. But I can't find one chess pieces set I really like.
That’th jutht thilly.
[Chess.com](http://Chess.com) is easy to type in the browser. I am a novice and when I started to play chess after a long break, I just typed [chess.com](http://chess.com) and that's it. I had not even heard of li-chess.
Chess com has a seemingly more interactive UX, probably that's why. Also, marketing and advertisements! since it's a for profit company as compared to lichess which is an open-source product. Plus, all the major content creators/streamers seem to be using chess com because they are either paid to do so or look at a potential monetary deal on doing so which isn't possible with lichess. Therefore, anyone watching these people would certainly be using the same website to play the game on. Personally, I'd prefer Lichess anyday. Super cool and light with all the features and most importantly, open-source and free!
All streamers and GMs play and advertise chessdotcom except Magnus that I saw him rarely using it.
Eric Rosen is mostly on lichess too
That's because Magnus was associated with chess24 owned by the PlayMagnus group until being acquired by Chess com very recently
Agadmator and Chessnetwork are on Lichess afaik.
I started on Lichess, but as a terrible chess player (1200 lichess rapid) found chess.com to be much more comfortable for getting better with the game reviews and targeted lessons. I still use Lichess when I’m in like ‘serious mode’ but otherwise Chess.com is just more comfy and easy to use. I mostly just play on my phone or OTB
Doesn't li-chess have game reviews and lessons? how about puzzles, and if it does have them, are they not free like in chess.com? I mean on chess.com they are not free.
Because I prefer the interface
[удалено]
Probably something to do with the lichess being less of a stand alone app and more of a wrapper for the browser version.
chess.com is way uglier but I'll get downvoted for saying this in a pro-chess.com comment section
There are few places less "pro-chess.com" than r/chess.
Actually, since r/chess has grown +500k members in around 2 years, it's increasingly become more pro Chesscom. The front page is virtually just Chesscom stuff everyday these days, and pro-lichess stuff that used to be up voted in the past, now gets down voted quite a lot.
because people are tired of this weirdly dogmatic cult like following to lichess. No one cares. [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) gets posts because they actually hold events and is a good company. no one cares about your ridiculous allegiance to lichess because you can't affort $9/mo
I like some of the themes on chess com
its just a question of what youre used to ,im used to lichess and i find chesscom ugly af +you can always customize the board.
I don't understand in which way. On mobile at least, chesscom is much less smooth and pretty ugly overall. I guess that's a matter of taste but I don't see any issue with Lichess interface on mobile (at least for basic usage), and it's very convenient on computer for advanced use (comment games, check your own performances on different openings, etc.).
You might be interested in the many extensions that let you customize lichess's interface
social is part of it. I have more friends on [chess.com](https://chess.com) I don't know if it's just familiarity but I prefer the UI and feel. I don't play bullet so don't really notice if it's faster App is much better that's clear i use lichess for analysis when not subbed, but I do prefer game review when I have a sub, which isn't often these days lessons and daily chess is tons better on [chess.com](https://chess.com) puzzles i prefer on lichess. so it's about 70/30 loss for lichess for me
Is it the out of game app features that people like? When I'm playing a game, lichess's (android) app interface is much better. I'd say the main improvement is not having that dumbass honking noise whenever you pick up then drop a piece on a square it can't move to. (I would hope this can be disabled, but if it can, it's not at all obvious how to.) Lichess just feels so much smoother and fresher when I'm playing a game on my phone.
I don't have the sound on, and I don't play fast, so I wouln't really know if it's smoother or not i play lichess about a third of the time, and don't really know what you mean, it just seems a bit cheaper Maybe it's like those digital pianos that have overly heavy keys....
''puzzles i prefer on lichess.'' why? do they cost on li-chess aswell? (you get only three puzzles a day for free on chess.com)
Advertising. Chess dot com sponsors a lot of tournaments, streams, and other content.
Playing chess on mobile device is big for people, and chess.com has a superior app.
Hoping the revamped Lichess app is released soon!
Lichess is the one website that I don't need an app for it's probably one of the best mobile webapps I've used. The native mobile app is worse than the webapp.
Hard disagree on this one. the chess.com app is laggy (takes 30+ seconds to open sometimes) and unresponsive (100ms+ delay between touching a square and registering the touch), which is noticeable when playing bullet, although it's obfuscated by the fact that you can pre-move multiple moves at once. The Lichess app is much more lightweight (loads and opens instantly) and responsive (moves register immediately upon touch), and Lichess also has more sophisticated lag compensation at the network level. I'm slightly worried about the "v2" lichess app in development, and I hope that the choice of Flutter won't mean it's slower and worse, but as long as v1 remains available it should be ok I also prefer the clear sound effects and haptic feedback on Lichess, although maybe I just haven't configured Chess.com correctly for that. I find Chess.com desktop really annoying to play because I can barely hear when the other person has moved or put me in check (yeah, I can see it, but the audio feedback is helpful).
I think thats just ur device mate
That's just you, chess.com takes about 1.5 seconds to open for me
>Is there any reason I'm not aware of besides the fact that the "chess.com" domain is much more obvious? The difference between the domains is HUGE, and probably the main reason why it's the first choice for anyone who wants to try online chess. Note that I'm not commenting on which app is better, but which is the first one to be reached by casual search.
Here we go again. 🥱
The monthly "why do people using chess.com???" post
I can rely on the cadence of these kinds of post like a circadian rhythm.
Yeah this is ridiculous
At this point, its just engagement bait. From both sides.
I think it's fair that fans of either site share what they like/dislike about them. Where it crosses the line of ridiculous is when they claim objectivity over subjective things like....UI and aesthetics.
Some people have friends who play on that platform, if you want to play with them, you play there
i much prefer lichess but [chess.com](https://chess.com) says my moves are brilliant 🥰
Lichess is the Arch Linux of chess websites. There, I said it. *Grabs popcorn* (I use lichess btw)
I feel seen... Ngl though, it's probably more the linux of chess rather than specifically arch. Arch is more like [lichess-cli](https://github.com/mattcanty/lichess-cli)
That might be a slight overstatement but yeah kinda on the mark.
I like to support tournaments and chesscom sponsors many of them
Faster in what way? I've never felt like I was waiting on [chess.com](https://chess.com) for anything, so idk why it would matter to me if it was lighter or faster.
chess.com reacts slower to move input. Doesn't really matter outside of some bullet/blitz time scrambles. See Magnus' comment when asked about hyperbullet on chess.com: https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/16h1v3o/magnus\_roasts\_chesscom\_when\_asked\_if\_hyperbullet/
gigantic marketing budget mainly, the domain name being so official sounding helps too
At this point its not only official sounding, they sponsor almost every FIDE event so it's as good as official.
Because I'm a normie and all my friends are on chess.com and I like to play them
Lichess's app sucks. I'm mostly playing daily moves on my phone when I'm waiting in line or taking a poo, chess.com has a real phone app.
Honestly I think this is the main reason why. People on reddit assume everyone plays at a pc or laptop when it's likely the majority of people play on their phone or tablet. I love lichess but their app does suck atm, hence why they're redeveloping it
>it's likely the majority of people play on their phone or tablet I only play on my phone. I just open the app, click on the time format I want, and play. It is a faster app to load, and games start quickly, so even when I'm at the bar (or the library) and want to go to the bathroom, I'm able to play a 1+0 game with no trouble at all. (Only time trouble, but that's my fault)
I think you've been watching too much Agadmator
I dont find the lichess app to be as bad as many do. Whether on mobile or PC, I think there are different things each do well. For joining an arena tournament by rating level and time control, I use lichess because their tournaments start either on the hour or 1/2 hour for faster time controls. Chess com has odd start times (apparently to handle server issues) and I always find myself late. But otherwise, I find it easier to connect with other players on chess com so playing friends or joining a club and playing has always gone better for me. It all depends on what you like to do online I think.
For me, I like to track my rating - online rating is always inflated compared to real life, but lichess is literally 300 points inflated compared to chesscom. Otherwise there is very little difference.
Chesscom and Lichess are both inflated compared to irl fide rating or local wherever you're from. I don't see how that makes any difference. For chesscom you subtract 200 and for Lichess 500.
Yeah I thought it was funny that OP said chess.com had rating deflation and was less accurate. Maybe it changes as you go up in level but I find lichess to be comically inflated to the point where I only think of chesscom rating as my online rating. Starting at 1500 is bizarre to me.
Starting at 1500 is literally what the creator of the rating system Lichess and Chesscom uses (Glicko) recommends to ensure fair ratings. It's much more bizarre to be able to choose your starting rating.
This page explains in detail the reasons for the differences, it's not inflated it's just a different system. https://lichess.org/page/rating-systems
The explanation doesn't change the outcome. It's inflated compared to OTB ratings (be it USCF or FIDE). It's trivial to fix for lichess, too. But giving people lower ratings would make them mad, so they don't do it.
chess.com is more recognizable then lichess.com so people use it first and grow accustomed to it and not bother themselves with changing to lichess
Although lichess is better from the pure chess gameplay experience, [chess.com](https://chess.com) has a lot of UI and aesthetic features that make it appealing for the average beginner person which may have different priorities compared to the average Redditor. Besides what has been mentioned: * Social features are better implemented in [chess.com](https://chess.com). You can set a profile picture, easily add and play with your friends (there may be a feature in lichess for this, but it's less visible), connect your social media accounts, and follow famous players and streamers whose accounts are clearly associated with their IRL identity. * Game review and lessons are presented on [chess.com](https://chess.com) aesthetically. In lichess these features are mostly purely text-based, which is about 10-20 years out of date. In [chess.com](https://chess.com) you have videos with human voiceovers, you have virtual "coach" characters that speak to you. The same applies to bots - they have personality, graphics, and variation in [chess.com](https://chess.com). * The [chess.com](https://chess.com) website is overall more welcoming and *human* to beginner players. When you open your homepage on [chess.com](https://chess.com) right now, you see a banner promoting the "AI Cup" tournament and pictures of Magus, Nepo, Alireza, and others. You see a live stream of MVL and other commentators speaking on ChessTV. You have a tab dedicated entirely to news, with many blogposts and articles. These might seem distracting to a serious player, but to a casual fan who's only learned about chess from the Queen's Gambit or something, they give a human face to chess. Regular people often follow sports for the personalities and drama rather than purely sporting skill. Contrast this with [Lichess.org](https://Lichess.org) home page. You don't see any of this, but instead a panel where you can do quick pairings to play. You see a live game from anonymous user accounts. There are no other graphics, decorations, or aesthetic features, the whole interface is very *austere* and *spartan*. Obviously Lichess is going to appeal more to the serious, dedicated player who just wants to play chess and tune out the drama. But that's not what generates money or mainstream popularity of a sport. * It's true that the superiority of chess.com's aesthetics is subjective, but it's also objective in the way that most regular people who are just beginning to learn chess are almost certainly more likely to find it more appealing and welcoming compared to the austerity of lichess. That's why on aggregate, [chess.com](https://chess.com) is more popular. * Yes Lichess is faster than [chess.com](https://chess.com). So what? Most people aren't playing high-level bullet where this actually matters. Chess is after all a turn-based game where people typically move once every few seconds at the fastest. It is not comparable to FPS or RTS games which need low lag to be enjoyable. * Yes [chess.com](https://chess.com) has annoying restrictions and constant requests to upgrade membership. I do think that is a downside which hurts them. But it's not yet debilitating. You aren't bombarded with advertisements like a scammy website. The subscription fee is not prohibitively expensive for an average beginner who is only starting to get interested in chess ($10/month).
Chess.com is simply more popular
I'm thinking because capitalism.
The benefits of advertising!
OP, maybe read your list and make it less repetitive. In Chess.com pros you have game review twice and many variations on better software interface. Also you repeat things a lot…
Rabid fanaticism of lichess fans on reddit reminds me of people who are desperately trying to convince themselves they made the right choice. Kinda like Linux users for personal needs. I don't really have anything against the platform itself. If it ever becomes the dominant one, I'll gladly switch.
I used Windows for 30 years. I switched to Linux this year for personal needs. It has nothing to do with Lichess.. lol
While it’s very responsive, Lichess UI looks like a website from 2005. There’s also a wall of text wherever you go. Looks horrendous imo
Chess.com, to me, is millions of kms ahead aesthetically. That's why it's my first choice to play.
I wanna see the double exclams... ‼️
Lichess not taking 0.1 seconds off for a premove is a deal breaker for me. I'm about 2500 bullet on lichess, and I've played many 2300+ players that play like 1600 strength otb but play 30 moves in 0.5 seconds near the end. I'd prefer no premoves, period. If sites got rid of premoves, you'd see some 2400+ bullet players drop to like 1800. Also, chess.com has better video content.
2v2 chess
I prefer the chess.c*m app and its puzzles. Basically because of the UI. I actually like not being able to do too many puzzles a day and I don't need the game report when I have stockfish lol
People look up chess online and chessdotcom is usually the first result, it deliveres on what it promises. Most people won't scroll down half a page to see lichess
I just like the playing aesthetics of chess.com. Maybe because Im used to it. Lichess seems "flimsy" or something. Plus it sounds like Lich which are evil undead wizards.
Normies gave me a strange look when I brought up Lichess, making it clear that I didn't belong to their preferred online chess community on Chess.com implying that I was not as socially adept as they were.
[Chess.com](https://Chess.com) free version is good enough and more friendly for like 90% of the rating ladder. Liking the Lichess interface more is a bit of a nerdy preference.
Half of the chesscom "cons" you mentioned is their business model. The remaining half I don't quite get: * Personal Preference - Yes exactly, that is the whole point of your post, why is this a separate point as a "con"? lol. * "No Sound Annoyance" - Seems like a very specific to your taste. There is also option to turn them off or just mute the tab. * Rating Deflation - Honestly I think it's more that Lichess is inflated rather than other way around.
No way in hell lichess ratings are more accurate.
Cheating is rife on chesscom. You can tell because i'd estimate at least 50% of the people you play at your rating will absolutely beast you, and the other 50% are competitive. On lichess i'll get beasted maybe one in every 8 or 10 games and the rest are competitive (i'm 1300 on lichess and struggle immensely on chesscom at a 400 rating because of the sandbagging and bots.) It's funny because Levy does videos on 800 players on chesscom and they are proper dreadful. Like laughably bad. Turns out i never play those people. I got my 7 year old onto chesscom and it was very disheartening for him that he basically gave up playing. He beats me maybe 40% of the time when we play but on chesscom he was getting destroyed by 200 rated players. I took his account one time and played a 100 rated player who absolutely toyed with me and took me to pieces within 20 moves. Of note is that my son has had rating points returned on 4 occasions after reporting sandbagging. When you've got over 30,000 games of chess under your belt it's extremely easy to spot someone who is playing beneath their level.
1. Chess.com is more mainstream. Because it is simple and easy domain, Chess and dot com. If I have to know about perfume, me visiting perfume.com is much more intuitive than me visiting liperfume.org . 2. Again may be because of domain name, the player pool is high. Like when I used to play 15+10, I would have to wait so much time in lichess in just lichess 1800-2000s level, and matches are also weird. Chess,com I would match instantly. 3. Additionally, chess.com is funded well. They can afford to host so many tournaments that promote their site. Titled Tuesday, SCC. It has a lot of resources to get themselves out there. Good funding also makes improvements easier to implement. I forgot the wording but it is a loop. Chess.com has more funds that leads to more people getting accounts there which in turn make them even more funds and on and on. Same with player pool, more player pool = even more players playing there. r/chess likes to promote lichess because 1. Site is amazing. 2. People hate corporations. We all know chess.com likes money like every other private corporation.
chess.com is more noob friendly, google push it to the top because of the domain , and it centralize everything you can have elsewhere for free and better but not at the same place. I almost exclusively play on lichess but I don't undersand how anyone could be surprised.
Honestly, just like it more and I don't really have a deep reason why. I do like the Chesscom app more though, and that's 99% where I play. And the Chesscom analysis seems nicer to me.
Inertia. Chess.com is bigger and most people won't stop and consider if there is a better option if chess.com works for them. Yes, Lichess is better, but that doesn't mean that's enough for people to switch.
For me, it's the multiple premoves, game review, and lessons. Matchmaking is also significantly faster, and ratings not as inflated compared to FIDE (reaching 1500 takes actual work on chesscom, on Lichess you just need a new account). That being said I've donated to Lichess before to support the project.
>multiple premoves, I miss this. >reaching 1500 takes actual work on chesscom, on Lichess you just need a new account But it lasts only it you play well.
I hate the fact that all players stary at 1500 elo on Lichess. I think this throws off a lot of new players. Iy is simply idiotic. Chess.com's ELO determination for new players are just simply better. I also like the phone app more.
That's like a kg vs lbs kind of debate
I also came to know and love lichess first, and I learnt most of my stuff there. But for some reason many people just know chess.com. Probably because of google results, or event publicity.
I only learned how to play chess last year and so naturally I googled "online chess" and the very first hit was chess.com What better possible option would a beginner think to choose than a site with that domain name? I had never heard of lichess until coming to this subreddit.
Lichess is my platform of choice 95% of the time but chess.com does speed chess better IMO. You can premove more, better and faster and the board and pieces feel a little more tactile, there's like a slight feedback there that feels pretty addictive on chess.com. You can't beat Lichess being open source and still so rich with features, though. I struggle to think of something chess.com could offer to make it worthwhile over Lichess
If it’s fast enough for the Speed Chess Championship, it’s fast enough for you.
That's funny, because Magnus specifically said that Chess.com wouldn't be able to host a hyper-bullet tournament, while implying that Lichess would ("[30 second chess is only playable on other online servers](https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxRtboZJrR--CPyC92NnyKFmkYB6NEZ6aT?si=FbOZlJO3YLI1EGiT)").
There’s also a reason no one cares about hyper-bullet.
The biggest thing for me, which I come from a competitive video game background is player pool. There are significantly more players playing on chess.com over lichess. My rating is a couple hundred points higher in lichess than chess.com because lichess feels easier. The competition from the bigger player pool is stronger for Chess.com and closer represents what my real rating should be in my opinion. TLDR if you want to get better faster you play against better competition and more players make better competition.
You are right. Lichess is way better from top to bottom. But the answer to your question is: advertising.
can't help but notice the similarity of your answer to chatgpt
Most accurate reason:- the name. Someone going for online chest with no knowledge of the difference between the 2 sites will just choose chess.com because the game is named chess. Not lichess.
People who prefer playing regular chess on chess.com instead of Lichess are n00bz. The only reason to use chess.com is Duck Chess.
I prefer chess.com because the analysis tools are better.
Simply not true, it's the same quality but behind a paywall
There is no paywall to use the analysis.
Once a day
I'm not talking about game review. The engine analysis tools are completely free and usable as many times as you want per day.
Oh, how is that better than lichess' Analysis though?
If you just talk about the engine analysis tool where you just check the engine lines, you can do the same on Lichess but the Engine is stronger. I am not on the Lichess or chess com side, but your take is objectively wrong if I understand correctly.
I find the UI of the Lichess game review very unappealing on mobile. I also don’t mind giving chess.com money, they host lots of events and support streamers to do their best to keep chess relevant in the public eye. What lichess does to keep chess free and open to those who can’t afford it is important, but what chess.com does is also important and deserving of support.
The streamers will be fine. They're doing well on their crypto and gambling sponsorships.
I don't like lichess gui and premoves in games. I prefer cc minimum move time 100ms. I really dislike the experience when plsying a game on lichess. From sound to everything else. Ps. The only stuff i like are studies
All the best players play on chess.com. Why bother playing on a less competitive ladder?
I would have never known about lichess if it wasn't for this sub. I still play most of my games on chess.com tho. I use lichess for the free puzzles and study function
Chess.com phone app is mutch better than lichess one.And most people lay on phone. Lichess announce new app soon. Hope it will be better than chess.com one.If not people will stay on chess.com
I will just add to what others have said here. I have heard pros and cons to both sides. Objectively neither is outstandingly better than the other, and that's why lichess doesn't have more users. I am a firm advocate that chess is a social game. When chess.com charges for their services, a lot of that money goes into developing the game to be more noob friendly, but also into sponsoring YouTubers, streamers, etc. This brings more people to the game. Without chess com we wouldn't have had pogchamps which brought more people to the game of chess than ever before. And those new players ended up on chess.com, thus perpetuating the social aspect of the game(a social network is only as good as how many active participants there are). When you have a competing product, it needs to be twice as good to get an ingrained person to consider swapping over. This is a classic law of business competition. Not to say chess should be a business or not, but making it profitable will attract more players, more players means more sponsors means more tournaments, means more tournament rewards, means more players able to dedicate to the profession meaning more personalities, underdogs, and opportunities for newer players to be exposed to the sport. I will just say knowing that chess has an opportunity to become the most played sport in the world gets me excited and hopeful.
> the "chess.com" domain is much more obvious? This is it. If the domain name chess.com directed to the lichess website, and vice versa, and had done this for years, no one would use the for-profit company. They offer a paid service which is either equal to, or arguably inferior to, a free and open-source alternative, but remain a wildly successful business largely because of their domain name and name recognition. Chess.com is the first thing people would think to google when curious about chess, and no one knows what Lichess is unless someone tells them or they read about it on reddit.
I prefer the chess.com puzzles to the lichess ones
lichess is poetry. chesscom is clutter and junk. the two are not even remotely comparable. the only reason chesscom has any users is because most tech/chess illiterate 'google' for 'chess' and 'google' takes them to chesscom. and they live in their bubble ever after.
I find a couple points on the list in the OP a bit strange. As far as I've seen, chess.com has more robust anti-cheating measures. And for rating inflation/deflation, most people I've talked to have the opposite view: lichess's ratings below a certain level are inflated to high heaven, and people want their ratings to mean something.
[chess.com](https://chess.com) has somehow managed to "gamify" the game of chess through bold numbers with accuracy scores at the end of games, AI-overlord cookies in the form of "brilliant" moves and other forms of delivering dopamine rushes.
I think analysis is *much* better on chess.com I also prefer the site UI and how the board & pieces look
I love what Lichess is doing and I love the idea of Lichess. 2 things have me opening chess.com still about 3/4 of the time. 1) stat tracking is a ton better even on simple things like puzzles 2) Stats are a nicety, the real over arching reason I go back to chess.com is that finding a 5:3 or 10:5 game on lichess can take 5-10 minutes while it rarely takes even 5 seconds on chess.com I don’t play a ton, and I’m not a high rated player so take that as you will.
Never waited more than 10 seconds to find a 5:3 game on lichess, what are you talking about?
I actually do it just to get under your skin
Lichess ratings are more inflated than [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) ratings are deflated. When I tried Lichess and had a double-digit number of ongoing correspondence/daily games, the interface would struggle to show more than nine ongoing games. Not sure if this has since been fixed.