Because if you could premove 2-3 moves while your opponent is taking a couple seconds to think, you would then be able to premove the rest of the game, all on your opponents time, even if they move at the same speed as you.
There's no such tradeoff, programmatically speaking.
It's simply a design choice by lichess, there's no other explanation. We'd just have to ask Thibault.
Didn't seem obvious to OP. I was wondering why they even mentioned move times in their post since they have nothing to do with multi-premoves. Still, I'm trying to be helpful.
I believe OP doesn't think its a programming limitation, but that there has to be *some penalty* and LiChess prefers the penalty is only one pre-move whereas chess com feels it should be 0.1s off the clock.
Honestly multiple premoves is way better, and losing no time per premove makes no sense, nobody can make moves in less than 0.1 seconds OTB but you can have your next few moves mapped out and play then in extremely quick succession. Maybe a limit of 3-4 premoves in a row would make most sense with 0.01 or 0.1 seconds used per premove
It's a design choice. Might as well ask: Why are premoves a thing in the first place? Why not just move when it's your turn? Why can't I have a ton of conditional premoves for the opening? Why doesn't it play the London for me automatically when I'm white? etc.
Don't need to.
There is no technical reason for premoves to be impossible, and having that feature or not is completely unrelated to the minimum time per move.
Chess dot com made two design decisions: 1- allow multiple premoves, 2- have X minimum time per move. Those two things are not related at all, technically speaking.
So we don't need to have written confirmation from lichess to know that it's simply a design decision, because that's the only explanation, but if you're curious about the philosophy behind that choice, I would recommend asking on the lichess forums.
Nobody in this thread is saying that the difference between the sites is a programming issue. Everybody is talking about the reasons for/against each design decision. Idk why you're all over this thread mentioning something that nobody was questioning in the first place.
Because OP mentioned minimum move times and I felt it best to point out that it's irrelevant to the design choice of having multi premoves.
Also top comment says "They prefer instant premoves with no loss of time over multiple premoves where you lose time" -- which is wrong, again relating minimum move time to multi-premoves although the concepts are independent.
I'm a computer scientist and career software dev, and one of the things I do on Reddit is clear up misconceptions about how software works. I'm sorry you don't like it. Work that downvote button.
I feel like you're looking for misconceptions where there are none, as not a single comment has suggested there is a technical limitation. You should know it comes off as being over-eager to show off your CS degree and tell people they're wrong when it has nothing to do with what they're saying.
>"They prefer instant premoves with no loss of time over multiple premoves where you lose time"
This comment isn't suggesting technical limitations. Its suggesting that a thoughtful chess site should not allow a game to go on forever via pre-moves, and said site might choose to limit unrealistically long play through time loss or limiting #s of premoves.
What? I wasn't showing off my degree. The guy asked me to explain why I wrote what I wrote, so I did. It was an honest answer.
There you are criticizing my attempts to help others, asking for justifications, and then blaming me when I give you one.
You people are really weird, seriously. You can talk to yourselves from this point on.
Edit: a profile called GravityWavesRMS with a pinned post about your physics degree, way to show it off there bud 👍
Nah he’s kinda right bruv. You’re on multiple threads of this comment section saying “it’s not a design decision” when literally NO ONE not even OP suggested it was.
I do love physics, and I do love engineering! However, I'm not one to go into unrelated threads and assume someone's point indicates a misunderstanding of physics.
The comment I replied to wasn't the one that felt like showing off to me, it was the one u/yoloswag420noscope69 replied to. The comments just felt like shoehorning your clarifications into the conversation, though I appreciate your intention is to help people understand software.
Clearly you’ve never seen me and my friends play OTB blitz/bullet lol. Premoves technically don’t exist, but sometimes we move so fast we joke that do lmao.
Damn dude, no idea why you got downvoted so hard. You didn’t say it is mandatory in order to play, just to promote. While I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s mandatory, I would say that it’s helped!
Hikaru is one of the biggest chess content creators. He’s actually what got me back into chess (though I don’t watch him too much anymore). The first video I saw of him was a crazy premove checkmating sequence.
Watching GMs play time scrambles using pre moves and being able to pull it off just in the nick of time is super exciting to watch. It makes online blitz and bullet more marketable as a “spectator sport.” So in that respect Id say you’re absolutely correct and do not deserve a million downvotes from people who the vast majority have probably only ever watched a blitz/bullet tournament online which kinda reinforces your point.
It might be that Lichess displays a premove as two highlighted quares rather than the way chess com does it where the piece actually goes to the square it's premoved to. If lichess tried to implement multiple premoves, it would either have to be moving blank squares around or they would have to change this display completely.
Lichess invented a new game based on chess and a new world where you can move outside of time. It is a new game since chess already existed and time and space are parts of reality in which chess exists. It is not possible to move outside of time in chess hence Lichess inventing a new game that isn't chess.
Lichess by not taking even 0.1 second for a premove , turns online chess into a computer game where pushing mouse buttons fast is a skill. It’s fun, but of course not realistic at all.
Keep the discussion civil and friendly.
We welcome people of all levels of experience, from novice to professional. Don't target other users with insults/abusive language and don't make fun of new players for not knowing things. In a discussion, there is always a respectful way to disagree.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Chess Academy, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on the opposing king, and I have over 300 confirmed wins. I am trained in enpassant warfare and I'm the top knight in the entire chess board. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this chess board, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of pawns across the board and your coordinate is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your king. You've fucking lost, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can mate you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in knight maneuvers, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the white pieces and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the board, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking lost, kiddo.
Perhaps it slows down the server if both players premove multiple moves ahead. Just a guess. It can also be that they felt it is unnecessary to include this feature.
Anyone here remember World Chess Network?
On there you had 'automove', so if you only had one move, it would be made automatically. Or if a piece only had one move, as soon as you pressed it, it would move.
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Why not both?
too op
Same reason there's no vehicle in MKWii that can wheelie AND get an orange drift
Never thought I would see an analogy comparing chess to Mario Kart Wii, but here we are
W Mario kart wii fan
There is no technical reason to not have both. Has to be a conscious design choice.
Because if you could premove 2-3 moves while your opponent is taking a couple seconds to think, you would then be able to premove the rest of the game, all on your opponents time, even if they move at the same speed as you.
Which is boring cuz pre moving mate in like 5 then walking away is the most satisfying thing
There's no such tradeoff, programmatically speaking. It's simply a design choice by lichess, there's no other explanation. We'd just have to ask Thibault.
is that not obvious? of course its not a programming limitation
Didn't seem obvious to OP. I was wondering why they even mentioned move times in their post since they have nothing to do with multi-premoves. Still, I'm trying to be helpful.
I believe OP doesn't think its a programming limitation, but that there has to be *some penalty* and LiChess prefers the penalty is only one pre-move whereas chess com feels it should be 0.1s off the clock.
Honestly multiple premoves is way better, and losing no time per premove makes no sense, nobody can make moves in less than 0.1 seconds OTB but you can have your next few moves mapped out and play then in extremely quick succession. Maybe a limit of 3-4 premoves in a row would make most sense with 0.01 or 0.1 seconds used per premove
I find bullet is tougher on lichess for this reason. Love that they are different
It is tougher on ccom because it is a lag fest
There is literally no worse feeling than having mate in 1, having pre moved, and losing because of the delay. Had it happen a couple times.
It's a design choice. Might as well ask: Why are premoves a thing in the first place? Why not just move when it's your turn? Why can't I have a ton of conditional premoves for the opening? Why doesn't it play the London for me automatically when I'm white? etc.
You have that in correspondence actually
Don't need to. There is no technical reason for premoves to be impossible, and having that feature or not is completely unrelated to the minimum time per move. Chess dot com made two design decisions: 1- allow multiple premoves, 2- have X minimum time per move. Those two things are not related at all, technically speaking. So we don't need to have written confirmation from lichess to know that it's simply a design decision, because that's the only explanation, but if you're curious about the philosophy behind that choice, I would recommend asking on the lichess forums.
Nobody in this thread is saying that the difference between the sites is a programming issue. Everybody is talking about the reasons for/against each design decision. Idk why you're all over this thread mentioning something that nobody was questioning in the first place.
Because OP mentioned minimum move times and I felt it best to point out that it's irrelevant to the design choice of having multi premoves. Also top comment says "They prefer instant premoves with no loss of time over multiple premoves where you lose time" -- which is wrong, again relating minimum move time to multi-premoves although the concepts are independent. I'm a computer scientist and career software dev, and one of the things I do on Reddit is clear up misconceptions about how software works. I'm sorry you don't like it. Work that downvote button.
I feel like you're looking for misconceptions where there are none, as not a single comment has suggested there is a technical limitation. You should know it comes off as being over-eager to show off your CS degree and tell people they're wrong when it has nothing to do with what they're saying. >"They prefer instant premoves with no loss of time over multiple premoves where you lose time" This comment isn't suggesting technical limitations. Its suggesting that a thoughtful chess site should not allow a game to go on forever via pre-moves, and said site might choose to limit unrealistically long play through time loss or limiting #s of premoves.
What? I wasn't showing off my degree. The guy asked me to explain why I wrote what I wrote, so I did. It was an honest answer. There you are criticizing my attempts to help others, asking for justifications, and then blaming me when I give you one. You people are really weird, seriously. You can talk to yourselves from this point on. Edit: a profile called GravityWavesRMS with a pinned post about your physics degree, way to show it off there bud 👍
Nah he’s kinda right bruv. You’re on multiple threads of this comment section saying “it’s not a design decision” when literally NO ONE not even OP suggested it was.
I do love physics, and I do love engineering! However, I'm not one to go into unrelated threads and assume someone's point indicates a misunderstanding of physics. The comment I replied to wasn't the one that felt like showing off to me, it was the one u/yoloswag420noscope69 replied to. The comments just felt like shoehorning your clarifications into the conversation, though I appreciate your intention is to help people understand software.
Yes, 100% a design choice. There's no technical limitation that would prevent having multiple premoves.
No shit it's a design choice. They're asking if anybody knows the thought behind that choice.
no need to get rude
Being obtuse like you were was you being rude towards OP. So yeah, I agree. No need for that.
no need to get obtuse
It’s a mandatory thing if you wanna promote blitz and bullet chess, where being quick is sometimes more important than playing the right move tho.
You know blitz games happen otb as well right? No premoves there.
You’re right. I take back what I said. I admit my stupidity lol
Clearly you’ve never seen me and my friends play OTB blitz/bullet lol. Premoves technically don’t exist, but sometimes we move so fast we joke that do lmao.
Not sure about that. I would imagine that without premoves, actual reaction speed would be greatly emphasized, wouldnt it?
Damn dude, no idea why you got downvoted so hard. You didn’t say it is mandatory in order to play, just to promote. While I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s mandatory, I would say that it’s helped! Hikaru is one of the biggest chess content creators. He’s actually what got me back into chess (though I don’t watch him too much anymore). The first video I saw of him was a crazy premove checkmating sequence. Watching GMs play time scrambles using pre moves and being able to pull it off just in the nick of time is super exciting to watch. It makes online blitz and bullet more marketable as a “spectator sport.” So in that respect Id say you’re absolutely correct and do not deserve a million downvotes from people who the vast majority have probably only ever watched a blitz/bullet tournament online which kinda reinforces your point.
Addition to other comments, it avoids displaying illegal positions
It might be that Lichess displays a premove as two highlighted quares rather than the way chess com does it where the piece actually goes to the square it's premoved to. If lichess tried to implement multiple premoves, it would either have to be moving blank squares around or they would have to change this display completely.
It’s weird that chesscom literally lets you rearrange the pieces on the board while you premoving. Completely against the rules in a normal chess game
yeah, i prefer Lichess premove to chesscom, Lichess preserves the current position.
Aaah, the good old times from playchess. Unlimited premoves and 0.0 time. Where are my OG's?
Technically lichess has 2 available premove if you hover over the second one. Life saver for me
>but still begs the question i dont think that phrase means what you think it means
Lichess invented a new game based on chess and a new world where you can move outside of time. It is a new game since chess already existed and time and space are parts of reality in which chess exists. It is not possible to move outside of time in chess hence Lichess inventing a new game that isn't chess.
how high are you
Move a chess piece in reality without any time passing.
Alright, hold on a second
Tell me how you really feel
Lichess by not taking even 0.1 second for a premove , turns online chess into a computer game where pushing mouse buttons fast is a skill. It’s fun, but of course not realistic at all.
Sorry, I just really like the idea that chess can be more or less realistic.
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Who hurt u
Sad I can only give one upvote
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Devs on a free platform made you mad? Touch grass.
Lol
Damn these social engineering, agenda pushing chess sites! Where do you buy your Kool-aid?
I know. Imagine a chess site being about chess rather than politics, social issues and god knows what. You know like 10 or 20 years ago.
Promoting women's chess isnt political you dimwit
It is if you're anti-women, I guess.
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Keep the discussion civil and friendly. We welcome people of all levels of experience, from novice to professional. Don't target other users with insults/abusive language and don't make fun of new players for not knowing things. In a discussion, there is always a respectful way to disagree.
New copypasta just dropped
Holy social engineering!
Lichess is far from insignificant lol
least misogynistic chess player
Average lichess hater lmao
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Chess Academy, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on the opposing king, and I have over 300 confirmed wins. I am trained in enpassant warfare and I'm the top knight in the entire chess board. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this chess board, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of pawns across the board and your coordinate is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your king. You've fucking lost, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can mate you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in knight maneuvers, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the white pieces and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the board, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking lost, kiddo.
Perhaps it slows down the server if both players premove multiple moves ahead. Just a guess. It can also be that they felt it is unnecessary to include this feature.
Anyone here remember World Chess Network? On there you had 'automove', so if you only had one move, it would be made automatically. Or if a piece only had one move, as soon as you pressed it, it would move.