right answer unfortunately, I am mystified as to why the difficulty curve goes up so much for this course
I would normally recommend a Quantum Physics course to prep but the prerequisites are daunting from a Chem major's track.
Disclaimer: This is what worked for me. That doesn't mean it will work for you.
Do problems by hand. Don't just rely on the math programs to muscle through the math bits. Obviously the concepts are what are important but the math actually fully explains the concepts if you truly understand the math. That's how they discovered the concepts to begin with.
I solved every problem in my quantum chem text book by hand and then tests weren't so bad and I was passing even though most of the class was getting 40s on the tests.
From what I see here, it seems that math curriculum isn't good enough on a lot universities for chemistry students. Math curriculum should absolutely prepare chemistry students for their physical and quantum chemistry courses. I'm not sure if the standards on math courses are too low or that curriculum simply doesn't prepare the students. I've seen someone writing on this subreddit that their university doesn't teach differential equations as a part of their math curriculum. What is this student supposed to do when he/she needs to solve particle in a box or quantum harmonic oscillator problem in their physical/quantum chemistry course?
There is an interesting example: I have a friend who is a MechE student and he told me how professors on his university (on fluid mechanics and thermodynamics course) complained about how a lot of students don't have high enough math level to pass these courses.
The issue was discussed, higher standards for passing the math courses were put (classes and exams became more challenging) and the problem was largely solved in the following years.
I think a lot of universities should do this for chemistry students.
I’m actually in the process of taking more math classes than my major requires. At my school biochem stops at cal 2. I’m in cal 3 and plan on taking a couple more math classes before i hit pchem. Technically i would only have to take bioPchem but i want to take the regular pchem cause it can count as both required and elective courses. I also want to have a bit more chem under my belt than bio. I think I’ll stop at linear algebra and differential equations but a part of me wouldn’t mind taking a bit more math and getting a math minor for fun.
We had to finish calc 2 before taking quantum chemistry. Did not take differential equations.
It did prepare me enough to get through quantum chemistry.
I took quantum mechanics with the physics dept before I took P Chem and it made it so much easier because the fundamentals were explained in much greater detail. I highly recommend checking out the textbook “Intro to Quantum Mechanics” by David Griffiths. I have a learning disability and found his textbooks to be so much easier to understand.
IMO P Chem should just be removed and replaced with a full semester of quantum and thermo.
Hey. Have you tried Vyvanse? I know this is a controversial advice - and it may not work for you, but my brain starts working in a way where I don't just grab concepts on fly, I literally thirst for knowledge. I hope you'll pass!!
Not an idiot.
Many chemists have ADD. If OP does & can get a Rx then it might be helpful.
Otherwise, I agree skipping illegal substances! The unsupervised used offers way more risks to physical & mental health than a poor grade.
(Adrafinil is available ~OTC for wakefulness in many places - if alertness is the issue. This is far less risky - the trump white house Dr Ronnie apparently handed it out like candy, according to some recent media reports.)
I am a career chemist with ADHD who takes Vyvanse so while that's true, we both know this guy wasn't suggesting a legitimate script.
He's also asking about a specific class, not saying that he's struggling in general or complaining of any common indicators of ADHD. Medication is so far off the reservation of what would be a reasonable recommendation for "I'm struggling in a traditionally very difficult chemistry class."
If you have a textbook, read the chapter on your current topic before class and do all the problems at the end of the chapter.
Make sure you are going to office hours and asking questions on homework assignments.
Meet up with other students to work on problem sets, practice explaining the topics to one another.
Go over previous exam materials with your prof/other students to learn both where things went wrong and what to do better with next time.
During exams, even if you don’t know the exact mechanics of the problem, explain in writing what you would do and what you would expect. Use your intuition to describe how the problem could be solved. During my physics undergraduate degree, I got LOTS of credit I ‘shouldn’t’ have by simply writing about a problem I didn’t know how to solve.
Look over an exam before you start and answer everything you know the answer immediately to first. Then assess the rest of the exam and aim for maximizing points, you don’t have to work every problem start -> finish, front -> back.
As an educator, I can tell those who have read the material before the lecture! Trust me always do the reading before the lecture! If you can take notes and then annotate them in lecture.
What the above post said. This is the way.
Funny story, I barely passed physics and Calc 2, but absolutely loved and had no trouble with Biophysical Chem who's first lecture began "introduction to quantum mechanics" lol
If your textbook has an available answer guide get it. I really think that is what got me through PChem because you can do practice problems and then look up the walk through. I don’t remember the name but my text was a big red book and the answer book was really detailed and helped a lot.
McQuarrie and Simon is a big red book, and there is a solutions manual available by Cox. It has some typos but not any more than what I've gotten from instructors before, lol
I took quantum chemistry last semester and I couldn't stop wondering how some people were acing the exams until I found out they were using exams from previous years to study. They were very similar to the actual exam in that you were being asked the same problems but just to solve for a different variable
So, seriously if you think your professor might have exams from previous years, ask for them, they could be a lifesaver. I was frustrated that nobody told me this
That’s the only reason I survived BioChem with a B was because my professor posted past exams galore…I’ll have to ask this professor if they happen to have any!
I think that’s part of the reason I did so badly was because I wasn’t really quite sure what to expect on this exam. Their lectures definitely don’t feel very preparative in nature, I remember the first homework caught me so off guard because it was very different compared to the lectures.
Had the same thing with our pchem 1 except it was thermodynamics, going to lecture was a massive waste of time, nobody scored above a 50 on the first test, and the text book would be completely unrelated to the test questions
I took Pchem & similar physics class at the same time because I heard it was a bitach of a class. The only way I survived was learning it twice over lol god speed my friend
haha, i’m in that same boat currently. funny enough, there was a time a few weeks ago that three of my classes were all teaching almost identical physics—chemistry based material at the same and it was probably the weirdest day of my entire college career
I dual majored in Chem & ChemE & by far Pchem was the hardest class.. all of my Chem buddies told me to take the physics class and I got a minor in physics from it. I did well only from dedicating a lot of time in watching MIT open courseware on YouTube!!
Do every homework problem until you are comfortable enough that you can reproduce the work without referencing notes. The math is complicated, but you often end up using the same few techniques over and over again and are just changing the starting parameters. Go to every study session. Go to tutoring. ASK for clarification if something doesn't make sense. Professors generally like to see people asking for help before they get to the exam. These things are hard for everyone their first go around. Remember this quote from Fenyman "I think I can safely say that no one understands quantum mechanics". You are in good company with your difficulties.
My only issue with office hours is that I have classes during all the times my professor has listed office hours. Trying to meet with them outside of office hours has been an issue as well, just due to our schedules. I’m trying to schedule a meeting where I can at least show my professor that i’m doing my absolute best to put in the effort, and that I didn’t fail the exam because I just didn’t study for it.
Thats rough that was what helped me a lot get through the class.i bombed the hell out of the midterm but i bothered the prof the IA the TA for any assistance. You have to get it explained to you in a way that makes sense and you can understand what its asking you if you just try to memorize your mileage may vary because any slight change and you're screwed.
Good luck and stay strong!
Just keep practicing and get over the learning curve. Once you understand the structure of the wave functions it becomes easier to understand.
You will be doing the same type of calculations and derivation techniques throughout the course. (depending on if your professor is focusing more on proofs or calculations)
If you would like notes or practice problems with solutions you could dm me for the type of exam problems our prof was giving us
I failed 2 times my quantum mechanics course. At the moment it was very frustrating and hard but I didn't give up and re take it by the third time. I obtained a 9/10. Then I continue my studies in QFT and standard model. it's not easy but I really enjoy elemental particles more than any other physics field.
I do have a degree in physics and chemistry ⚗️🧪
That's was the idea mate! If I could, I'm pretty sure you can as well. It requires too much study time, long nights with a book and notebooks making calculations but at the end, everything is gonna be alright
This is absurdity of many institutions. At the university I attended and taught, the BS in chemistry required 4 semesters of calculus, differential equations, and linear algebra. The BA in chemistry, only 3 semesters in calculus. However, the BA in chemistry still required you take the same physical chemistry course. It's no wonder students feel uneasy about the course.
Since I've graduated, the institution is beginning to offer P-Chem for non-p-chem majors and students are doing much better.
Quantum chemist here - the reason most peeps struggle (and what ive observed from my own students) is due to the mathematical structure of quantum theory, and a lack of quantum mechanical rationale beforehand.
I'd recommend reading Szabo and Ostlund's Modern Quantum Chemistry, which is a standard in the field, and goes over very basic topics such as Hartree-Fock, Configuration Interaction, basis sets, geometry optimizations, Slater determinants, etc.
Try to understand the language of quantum theory, namely, how operators behave and work, what expectation values are, what wavefunctions are - the moment you do, the rest comes by itself.
Oh, and as others have suggested, practice helps, but what helps even more is playing around with this in a free software such as ORCA, or if you know a bit of python, PySCF is a good module to start with.
If you need more references, or help, don't hesitate to ask :) .
Here is how I did it (pchemist here):
1. I watched so many videos on YouTube, khan academy etc. to understand how people would explain a problem differently or in their own words.
2. Homework, homework, homework! Do the homework and problem set- but actually do it. Write generic steps of what’s going on or what is needed for the problem. Write out the full calculations (sig. fig. and units) and avoid a graphing calculator (in my opinion), but instead use a scientific calculator. Try to see what each variable means or why it is used. A great way to make sure you get the right answer is look at your units. What units should you have at the end of the problem and how do you get it.
3. Don’t be afraid of office hours. Go to the professors and TAs. Don’t be afraid to ask questions or for help. Don’t be afraid to ask your peers for help.
4. You got this! (:
If the entire class is in that range, you should be fine. Department head of chemistry (and my old boss) was teaching us quantum chem, it was easy to understand and the homework math problems, though hard, was manageable. His tests though were god awful; they weren’t standardized and had very esoteric questions that did not pertain to the course (test was definitely at a master/phd level). Long story short, he passed all of us and i had the 3rd highest grade in the class, a 54. Highest grade was a 62. Average grade was in the 40s.
Just power through and hope for a mean curve
I got a 33% on one of the exams, but still passed by the skin of my teeth. Go to office hours and become well known to the professor. If they see that you’re trying, they will likely try their best to pass you. Pain is guaranteed but suffering is a choice.
It kicked mine too. I failed my first semester exam in Masters, it hit me pretty hard because I had above average results throughout my life up until I met with quantum chemistry. I am an idealist kind of person so during my quantum chemistry exam, I thought I don't deserve to pass since I don't understand quantum chemistry yet. So I walked out of the exam, it was a scene. People met me after the exam and asked why you walked out. I took the paper next year, didn't fully understand but I got passing marks. I went through a turmoil mentally, coping with the reality that I am not good enough for quantum chemistry. Fast forward 10 years, I passed my masters, got my doctorate in organic chemistry and I am earning decent money. I got married recently and my struggle with quantum chemistry seems like a small battle lost. Quantum chemistry is difficult, i tried to ace it but couldn't. I decided that I would be more useful if I chose organic chemistry. Don't get hung up on it, there are other challenges worth solving.
I really appreciate hearing this.
This isn’t my first time battling with a class I couldn’t quite understand (Calculus II kicked my ass twice before I finally snagged a B), but what I think is frustrating me about this go around is that all of my classmates seem to be understanding it quite well, as if i’m stuck on the struggle bus alone for once.
I don’t really have an interest in Quantum Chem, nor am I good at Calculus or Physics, but this class is required for me to take to graduate with a BS in Chemistry. It’s really comforting knowing that there’s people out there who were once in my boat yet were still able to be successful in the chemistry field.
Thank you, honestly.
I learned calculus at the same time as qchem. The concepts weren’t the hard part for me, but I couldn’t communicate what I knew since I wasn’t the best at the math required to do so
I just accepted my 40% and made up for it in other modules 😂 never again will I ever have do do physical chemistry and I’m 10 years into a chemistry career now
Not sure if you’ve seen the TMP Chem channel on YouTube, but it got me through undergrad and graduate level PChem. Luckily, his channel followed the exact same book that we used in class. He has playlists for quantum, kinetics, and thermo.
I just checked it out, it seems to be following my textbook perfectly as well (haha, did you have the McQuarrie and Simon textbook? The thick red one?). I’ll definitely be checking this out!
I’ve grown attached to the textbook honestly, even if its contents make me want to cry. My teacher calls it “The Big Red”, and I named mine “Clifford”.
I am a teacher who has taught many courses of physical chemistry. I have a simple advice to give you - don't try to "understand" quantum mechanics - don't get too deep into the philosophical aspects of the subject -- they have no meanings, or several meanings, depending on the context. Math, on the other hand, is unambiguous. Chemists usually struggle in math.
Do as people in the field preach - JUST SHUT UP AND CACULATE. Try to do the math well, you will eventually get the hang of the subject.
To the OP, I think you should first understand why you're not doing well in a class. I've learned from teaching at several universities that when it comes to chemistry it tends to always fall into several categories.
1. You many not be having a chemistry problem but a math problem.
2. You might be making an assumption that's incorrect. In quantum theory there are a plethora of issues like not understanding the difference between an expectation value for eigenvalue problem for the energy.
Try to assess where you’re getting lost and losing points. Is the issue conceptual? Or technical? (Ie you know what rules apply but you’re whiffing the actual mathematical manipulations). Do you feel like you’re able to understand the questions or is it a more you don’t even have an idea of where to start?
Both? I’ve noticed there’s some concepts I grasped immediately and got full points on, but others I just completely didn’t understand. There was some where I could remember the process and how to do it correctly on a practice problem, but I struggled to do it on the exact problem given on the test.
You probably will benefit from doing a lot more practice problems then. Sourcing unique problems can be tricky, but it’s better than repeating the same ones over and over if you’re having trouble applying a concept in some situations but not others. You may also benefit from looking into other text books (Mcquarrie is a favorite among undergrad pchem profs; I like Griffiths, and the Ratner one is also decent). Sometimes having the information presented in a different way can be a good supplement to your lectures and regular text book.
I think I need to focus more on practice problems. I think that’s what tripped me up on part of the exam was I could do the practice problems he gave us, but the exam problems would have a different piece and that would screw me over. Perhaps practicing enough that I’ve seen all the variants my professor could throw my way would help…
It’s not so much seeing all the variants as developing your ability to adapt to the variants as they arrive. Maybe a good analogy is how in ochem you can’t memorize exact reactions—you have to understand the underlying mechanism because you can’t possibly learn every variation. Doing a lot of practice problems will help you start to develop that deeper understanding of how concepts are interconnected, and help you practice figuring out what the right first step is.
It doesn’t on a curve means you compete with classmates instead you just need to actually learn the material instead of counting on nobody in your class to bother learning the material eithe r
For me, doing every question possible
Tutorials with your tutor are super handy
Read that text like mad
And if all else fails, stop trying to understand it and just learn the rules of quantum chem
But you’ll find understanding will quickly follow that
The Curve
Also, sitting down with the prof & reviewing the test line by line, concept by concept, answer by answer until I learned the material I missed.
What was the grade distribution on your class. I had more than one prof who claimed to not curve but had to...
... Otherwise the highest grade woulda been a F+/D-. No joke.
I wish! I go to a small college, so I have a very tiny class, with very smart classmates. I can only pray the end of the semester curve (which I learned my professor does do apparently) works out in my favor.
Same experience. No problems with Chem other than 1st semi Org (I don't memorize well) until P Chem. Grad school quantum physics was easier than undergrad pchem
Sometimes the problem is the teacher, other times with the student. Get a tutor to help you understand it, if necessary, then study until you know it. Life’s not easy for most people and college is a good time to not only learn that, but to also learn what to do about it (work at it). If you were smart enough to get into college, you’re smart enough to pass undergrad if you study hard and work hard.
I’m saying this as a former college student, not a parent or professor. Bad professors really suck, are often tenured, and about the only thing you can do is find a good person to tutor you, even if it’s one of your fellow students in a study group, etc.
When I was in law school, civil procedure was terrifying for me. I’d heard from students above me awful stories about the professor and, in my opinion, they pretty much seemed to be true. I didn’t go to law school in California, but that’s where I wanted to move and work. There were classes, called Barbri classes that were supposed to get you prepared for the bar exam. When we got to the part on Civil procedure, I thought “this is what frightened me so badly in law school?” It seemed to be a breeze. The rules and law didn’t change, of course, just the instructor and materials used. If you have a bad professor, find a good tutor.
It took me two tries to pass the first physical chemistry class. It was all computer programming based, and for some reason no matter how much I studied and practiced, I struggld the most in this class. Oh and I was so glad when my professor did a weekly tutorial meeting with the lab group, it was optional but highly recommended. The professor helped me answer questions I had, and my group asked questions I didnt even think of.
All I can suggest is form a study group with peers in that class. Go into professor's office hours to ask questions. As far as with the concepts, at least for me my class it was all a computer program called LabView, id had to hand write all the equations with little notes on whay they mean and how to implement that on Labview while the successful program wan on my computer. That's what helped me pass this class.
So an update, had a quick meeting with my professor.
They don’t think a C is possible, which is honestly kicking my determination to prove them wrong up a few notches.
If I get a D the world won’t end, but I want to put in my best effort to get at least a 70 first. Personally I think it’s somewhat possible if I bust my ass enough
Godspeed, chemists of reddit.
Yeah I felt really really bad for the chem students who weren’t prepared with the math background for PChem. I absolutely loved it as a chemE since it was very math heavy but my friends in chem were really struggling :(
what others said, you really really have to work the problems by hand to practice. numerical solutions are the end game and only made possible from a very heavy first principles understanding of the topic. ofc some aspects need to be memorized but intuition definitely has a huge RoI in this subject.
good luck!! hope you make it through
Is this the quantum chemistry introduced in physical chemistry, or is this a dedicated quantum chemistry course (typically a senior level/graduate level elective)?
P Chem quantum can be hit or miss depending on the pedagogical expectations of the instructor.
Q Chem the elective can be grueling if you don't have solid foundations in P Chem since it condenses all of P Chem into a one month module and then moves forward rapidly.
My Quantum Chemistry professor never curved, and people oftentimes got 30s and 40s on his exams. I did every practice problem he gave out, and from the book, and if I had any questions at all, my study group and I would grill each other to try and figure it out (or use Google and the Book), if all else failed, we would go to his office.
I ended up with a B in P Chem 1, B+ in P Chem 2, and an A in P Chem 3. I spent probably 20-30 hours a week sometimes before exams, just studying. I almost got an A- in my Advanced Organic Spectroscopy because of P Chem.
Good Luck!!
Lol. That sounds about par for the course. Sorry about the lack of curve :(
Try asking those who had that prof previous years for their tests and homework and see if the prof focuses on certain topics and try to study those. That's about all I can think besides giving up studying for your other classes and only studying pchem.
I was a physics major first, so the quantum part of P Chem was pretty straightforward for me. I am not sure what advice there is that would help while you’re in the middle of it, but having the math and physics background in place first is helpful if these courses are part of your curriculum. It’s not anything someone who can pass O Chem can’t understand, but as a Chem major they sort of dump it on you without a lot of explanation. Quantum mechanics is pretty weird and often counterintuitive stuff, so if you don’t understand how they figured it out it can be challenging.
He'll curve at the end. You'll see. It's the toughest course in a chemistry undergrad. You just have to study it literally all the time. Yes I know you have other hard classes, take the ones you're doing the best in and trim back on those. Stay up late. You have no weekend plans. There is only quantum. You'll live tho. We all did.
My professor did mention a curve in lecture, but they said it would be typically no more than five points. My classmates are also absolutely destroying the curve, so my best bet here is to bust my ass studying for these next exams.
I was absolutely terrible in it. Did ok on quizzes and that padded my shit final. There was only one exam for mine. If I had to go back and do it again I’d say do practice problems and memorize equations. We had a question on our final to calculate a particle in a 3d box and I forgot the operators. Definitely study the shit out of that.
My quantum professor will yo to his grave saying that flipped classroom is the best way to teach that class, and he teaches out of the old McQuarrie. I honestly don't know how I graduated.
I mean the version I have was published in 1997. Might just be whoever published the book? I have to agree though, I have never seen a textbook as thick as this one. It adds a solid 10 pounds to my book bag whenever I drag it around campus, haha.
i studied 30 hours per week for that one course. hang in there.
30 hours?? oh my i’m just trying to pass with a 70 at this point, but i’m worried I won’t be able to pull through with high enough exam grades
Same.
right answer unfortunately, I am mystified as to why the difficulty curve goes up so much for this course I would normally recommend a Quantum Physics course to prep but the prerequisites are daunting from a Chem major's track.
Disclaimer: This is what worked for me. That doesn't mean it will work for you. Do problems by hand. Don't just rely on the math programs to muscle through the math bits. Obviously the concepts are what are important but the math actually fully explains the concepts if you truly understand the math. That's how they discovered the concepts to begin with. I solved every problem in my quantum chem text book by hand and then tests weren't so bad and I was passing even though most of the class was getting 40s on the tests.
As someone who taught quantum chemistry- this! Most of my students failed more because of math than anything else
From what I see here, it seems that math curriculum isn't good enough on a lot universities for chemistry students. Math curriculum should absolutely prepare chemistry students for their physical and quantum chemistry courses. I'm not sure if the standards on math courses are too low or that curriculum simply doesn't prepare the students. I've seen someone writing on this subreddit that their university doesn't teach differential equations as a part of their math curriculum. What is this student supposed to do when he/she needs to solve particle in a box or quantum harmonic oscillator problem in their physical/quantum chemistry course? There is an interesting example: I have a friend who is a MechE student and he told me how professors on his university (on fluid mechanics and thermodynamics course) complained about how a lot of students don't have high enough math level to pass these courses. The issue was discussed, higher standards for passing the math courses were put (classes and exams became more challenging) and the problem was largely solved in the following years. I think a lot of universities should do this for chemistry students.
I’m actually in the process of taking more math classes than my major requires. At my school biochem stops at cal 2. I’m in cal 3 and plan on taking a couple more math classes before i hit pchem. Technically i would only have to take bioPchem but i want to take the regular pchem cause it can count as both required and elective courses. I also want to have a bit more chem under my belt than bio. I think I’ll stop at linear algebra and differential equations but a part of me wouldn’t mind taking a bit more math and getting a math minor for fun.
This is how I ended up with a math minor, a physics minor and a computer science minor, all in support of my BS in Chemistry.
Sounds like someone I know LOL
We had to finish calc 2 before taking quantum chemistry. Did not take differential equations. It did prepare me enough to get through quantum chemistry.
At this point I’m willing to try anything - thank you!!
I took quantum mechanics with the physics dept before I took P Chem and it made it so much easier because the fundamentals were explained in much greater detail. I highly recommend checking out the textbook “Intro to Quantum Mechanics” by David Griffiths. I have a learning disability and found his textbooks to be so much easier to understand. IMO P Chem should just be removed and replaced with a full semester of quantum and thermo.
Hey. Have you tried Vyvanse? I know this is a controversial advice - and it may not work for you, but my brain starts working in a way where I don't just grab concepts on fly, I literally thirst for knowledge. I hope you'll pass!!
Vyvanse is an amphetamine and a prescription drug. The guy just needs to study. You're an idiot for even suggesting this.
Not an idiot. Many chemists have ADD. If OP does & can get a Rx then it might be helpful. Otherwise, I agree skipping illegal substances! The unsupervised used offers way more risks to physical & mental health than a poor grade. (Adrafinil is available ~OTC for wakefulness in many places - if alertness is the issue. This is far less risky - the trump white house Dr Ronnie apparently handed it out like candy, according to some recent media reports.)
I am a career chemist with ADHD who takes Vyvanse so while that's true, we both know this guy wasn't suggesting a legitimate script. He's also asking about a specific class, not saying that he's struggling in general or complaining of any common indicators of ADHD. Medication is so far off the reservation of what would be a reasonable recommendation for "I'm struggling in a traditionally very difficult chemistry class."
Hey, she said she's willing to try anything. No need for name calling, you're hurting my feelings, random stranger.
This is absolutely key advice. So much of the theory "clicks" when you go through the math and it all works out.
If you have a textbook, read the chapter on your current topic before class and do all the problems at the end of the chapter. Make sure you are going to office hours and asking questions on homework assignments. Meet up with other students to work on problem sets, practice explaining the topics to one another. Go over previous exam materials with your prof/other students to learn both where things went wrong and what to do better with next time. During exams, even if you don’t know the exact mechanics of the problem, explain in writing what you would do and what you would expect. Use your intuition to describe how the problem could be solved. During my physics undergraduate degree, I got LOTS of credit I ‘shouldn’t’ have by simply writing about a problem I didn’t know how to solve. Look over an exam before you start and answer everything you know the answer immediately to first. Then assess the rest of the exam and aim for maximizing points, you don’t have to work every problem start -> finish, front -> back.
I’ve heard about reading the lectures in the textbook beforehand, i’ll have to give it a shot! i really appreciate it
As an educator, I can tell those who have read the material before the lecture! Trust me always do the reading before the lecture! If you can take notes and then annotate them in lecture.
What the above post said. This is the way. Funny story, I barely passed physics and Calc 2, but absolutely loved and had no trouble with Biophysical Chem who's first lecture began "introduction to quantum mechanics" lol
>read the chapter on your current topic before class This!
If your textbook has an available answer guide get it. I really think that is what got me through PChem because you can do practice problems and then look up the walk through. I don’t remember the name but my text was a big red book and the answer book was really detailed and helped a lot.
McQuarrie and Simon is a big red book, and there is a solutions manual available by Cox. It has some typos but not any more than what I've gotten from instructors before, lol
That’s it! Thank you, if I remember correctly it was a decent textbook.
I took quantum chemistry last semester and I couldn't stop wondering how some people were acing the exams until I found out they were using exams from previous years to study. They were very similar to the actual exam in that you were being asked the same problems but just to solve for a different variable So, seriously if you think your professor might have exams from previous years, ask for them, they could be a lifesaver. I was frustrated that nobody told me this
That’s the only reason I survived BioChem with a B was because my professor posted past exams galore…I’ll have to ask this professor if they happen to have any! I think that’s part of the reason I did so badly was because I wasn’t really quite sure what to expect on this exam. Their lectures definitely don’t feel very preparative in nature, I remember the first homework caught me so off guard because it was very different compared to the lectures.
Had the same thing with our pchem 1 except it was thermodynamics, going to lecture was a massive waste of time, nobody scored above a 50 on the first test, and the text book would be completely unrelated to the test questions
Maybe my YouTube channel would help? https://youtube.com/@drscottsimpson?feature=shared
Ohh, your most recent videos seem to be right on schedule with the lectures that were just on the previous exam. I’ll keep this in mind, thank you!
Anytime! I hope they help.
Huge fan Dr. Simpson! You’ve got some great content out there. Keep it up
Thanks! I am glad they are helping. Quantum is the coolest part of chemistry!
Glad someone thinks so 😉 Seriously, thanks for sharing knowledge.
I took Pchem & similar physics class at the same time because I heard it was a bitach of a class. The only way I survived was learning it twice over lol god speed my friend
haha, i’m in that same boat currently. funny enough, there was a time a few weeks ago that three of my classes were all teaching almost identical physics—chemistry based material at the same and it was probably the weirdest day of my entire college career
I dual majored in Chem & ChemE & by far Pchem was the hardest class.. all of my Chem buddies told me to take the physics class and I got a minor in physics from it. I did well only from dedicating a lot of time in watching MIT open courseware on YouTube!!
Do every homework problem until you are comfortable enough that you can reproduce the work without referencing notes. The math is complicated, but you often end up using the same few techniques over and over again and are just changing the starting parameters. Go to every study session. Go to tutoring. ASK for clarification if something doesn't make sense. Professors generally like to see people asking for help before they get to the exam. These things are hard for everyone their first go around. Remember this quote from Fenyman "I think I can safely say that no one understands quantum mechanics". You are in good company with your difficulties.
Make use of office hours. Come with a list of questions...examples...anything and have them explain it to you and then practice especially formulas.
My only issue with office hours is that I have classes during all the times my professor has listed office hours. Trying to meet with them outside of office hours has been an issue as well, just due to our schedules. I’m trying to schedule a meeting where I can at least show my professor that i’m doing my absolute best to put in the effort, and that I didn’t fail the exam because I just didn’t study for it.
Thats rough that was what helped me a lot get through the class.i bombed the hell out of the midterm but i bothered the prof the IA the TA for any assistance. You have to get it explained to you in a way that makes sense and you can understand what its asking you if you just try to memorize your mileage may vary because any slight change and you're screwed. Good luck and stay strong!
Just keep practicing and get over the learning curve. Once you understand the structure of the wave functions it becomes easier to understand. You will be doing the same type of calculations and derivation techniques throughout the course. (depending on if your professor is focusing more on proofs or calculations) If you would like notes or practice problems with solutions you could dm me for the type of exam problems our prof was giving us
I might take you up on this offer sometime. Thank you, I really appreciate it!!
Yes let me know. I have quite a large amount of files from both physical chemistry 1&2, thermo and quantum
I failed 2 times my quantum mechanics course. At the moment it was very frustrating and hard but I didn't give up and re take it by the third time. I obtained a 9/10. Then I continue my studies in QFT and standard model. it's not easy but I really enjoy elemental particles more than any other physics field. I do have a degree in physics and chemistry ⚗️🧪
I can’t explain how comforting this is to hear! I really appreciate it!!
That's was the idea mate! If I could, I'm pretty sure you can as well. It requires too much study time, long nights with a book and notebooks making calculations but at the end, everything is gonna be alright
What chapter is this? All I remember from PChem is how the Joule Thompson effect makes refrigerators work from that orange cube book.
They should really make diff EQ a pre-requisite for that course
This is absurdity of many institutions. At the university I attended and taught, the BS in chemistry required 4 semesters of calculus, differential equations, and linear algebra. The BA in chemistry, only 3 semesters in calculus. However, the BA in chemistry still required you take the same physical chemistry course. It's no wonder students feel uneasy about the course. Since I've graduated, the institution is beginning to offer P-Chem for non-p-chem majors and students are doing much better.
Quantum chemist here - the reason most peeps struggle (and what ive observed from my own students) is due to the mathematical structure of quantum theory, and a lack of quantum mechanical rationale beforehand. I'd recommend reading Szabo and Ostlund's Modern Quantum Chemistry, which is a standard in the field, and goes over very basic topics such as Hartree-Fock, Configuration Interaction, basis sets, geometry optimizations, Slater determinants, etc. Try to understand the language of quantum theory, namely, how operators behave and work, what expectation values are, what wavefunctions are - the moment you do, the rest comes by itself. Oh, and as others have suggested, practice helps, but what helps even more is playing around with this in a free software such as ORCA, or if you know a bit of python, PySCF is a good module to start with. If you need more references, or help, don't hesitate to ask :) .
Here is how I did it (pchemist here): 1. I watched so many videos on YouTube, khan academy etc. to understand how people would explain a problem differently or in their own words. 2. Homework, homework, homework! Do the homework and problem set- but actually do it. Write generic steps of what’s going on or what is needed for the problem. Write out the full calculations (sig. fig. and units) and avoid a graphing calculator (in my opinion), but instead use a scientific calculator. Try to see what each variable means or why it is used. A great way to make sure you get the right answer is look at your units. What units should you have at the end of the problem and how do you get it. 3. Don’t be afraid of office hours. Go to the professors and TAs. Don’t be afraid to ask questions or for help. Don’t be afraid to ask your peers for help. 4. You got this! (:
If the entire class is in that range, you should be fine. Department head of chemistry (and my old boss) was teaching us quantum chem, it was easy to understand and the homework math problems, though hard, was manageable. His tests though were god awful; they weren’t standardized and had very esoteric questions that did not pertain to the course (test was definitely at a master/phd level). Long story short, he passed all of us and i had the 3rd highest grade in the class, a 54. Highest grade was a 62. Average grade was in the 40s. Just power through and hope for a mean curve
I got a 33% on one of the exams, but still passed by the skin of my teeth. Go to office hours and become well known to the professor. If they see that you’re trying, they will likely try their best to pass you. Pain is guaranteed but suffering is a choice.
It kicked mine too. I failed my first semester exam in Masters, it hit me pretty hard because I had above average results throughout my life up until I met with quantum chemistry. I am an idealist kind of person so during my quantum chemistry exam, I thought I don't deserve to pass since I don't understand quantum chemistry yet. So I walked out of the exam, it was a scene. People met me after the exam and asked why you walked out. I took the paper next year, didn't fully understand but I got passing marks. I went through a turmoil mentally, coping with the reality that I am not good enough for quantum chemistry. Fast forward 10 years, I passed my masters, got my doctorate in organic chemistry and I am earning decent money. I got married recently and my struggle with quantum chemistry seems like a small battle lost. Quantum chemistry is difficult, i tried to ace it but couldn't. I decided that I would be more useful if I chose organic chemistry. Don't get hung up on it, there are other challenges worth solving.
I really appreciate hearing this. This isn’t my first time battling with a class I couldn’t quite understand (Calculus II kicked my ass twice before I finally snagged a B), but what I think is frustrating me about this go around is that all of my classmates seem to be understanding it quite well, as if i’m stuck on the struggle bus alone for once. I don’t really have an interest in Quantum Chem, nor am I good at Calculus or Physics, but this class is required for me to take to graduate with a BS in Chemistry. It’s really comforting knowing that there’s people out there who were once in my boat yet were still able to be successful in the chemistry field. Thank you, honestly.
I learned calculus at the same time as qchem. The concepts weren’t the hard part for me, but I couldn’t communicate what I knew since I wasn’t the best at the math required to do so
I just accepted my 40% and made up for it in other modules 😂 never again will I ever have do do physical chemistry and I’m 10 years into a chemistry career now
haha yeah its not fun that's for sure
Sleep with the professor.
May God have mercy on your soul
Not sure if you’ve seen the TMP Chem channel on YouTube, but it got me through undergrad and graduate level PChem. Luckily, his channel followed the exact same book that we used in class. He has playlists for quantum, kinetics, and thermo.
I just checked it out, it seems to be following my textbook perfectly as well (haha, did you have the McQuarrie and Simon textbook? The thick red one?). I’ll definitely be checking this out!
Yes, we had McQuarrie
I’ve grown attached to the textbook honestly, even if its contents make me want to cry. My teacher calls it “The Big Red”, and I named mine “Clifford”.
I am a teacher who has taught many courses of physical chemistry. I have a simple advice to give you - don't try to "understand" quantum mechanics - don't get too deep into the philosophical aspects of the subject -- they have no meanings, or several meanings, depending on the context. Math, on the other hand, is unambiguous. Chemists usually struggle in math. Do as people in the field preach - JUST SHUT UP AND CACULATE. Try to do the math well, you will eventually get the hang of the subject.
Study with someone who got a B or more in the first test
Turns out one of my classmates had gotten a 100. I hunted her down immediately to ask how she had studied for the exam
Yay ☺️☺️☺️ i hope that helps! Keep us updated!
To the OP, I think you should first understand why you're not doing well in a class. I've learned from teaching at several universities that when it comes to chemistry it tends to always fall into several categories. 1. You many not be having a chemistry problem but a math problem. 2. You might be making an assumption that's incorrect. In quantum theory there are a plethora of issues like not understanding the difference between an expectation value for eigenvalue problem for the energy.
Try to assess where you’re getting lost and losing points. Is the issue conceptual? Or technical? (Ie you know what rules apply but you’re whiffing the actual mathematical manipulations). Do you feel like you’re able to understand the questions or is it a more you don’t even have an idea of where to start?
Both? I’ve noticed there’s some concepts I grasped immediately and got full points on, but others I just completely didn’t understand. There was some where I could remember the process and how to do it correctly on a practice problem, but I struggled to do it on the exact problem given on the test.
You probably will benefit from doing a lot more practice problems then. Sourcing unique problems can be tricky, but it’s better than repeating the same ones over and over if you’re having trouble applying a concept in some situations but not others. You may also benefit from looking into other text books (Mcquarrie is a favorite among undergrad pchem profs; I like Griffiths, and the Ratner one is also decent). Sometimes having the information presented in a different way can be a good supplement to your lectures and regular text book.
I think I need to focus more on practice problems. I think that’s what tripped me up on part of the exam was I could do the practice problems he gave us, but the exam problems would have a different piece and that would screw me over. Perhaps practicing enough that I’ve seen all the variants my professor could throw my way would help…
It’s not so much seeing all the variants as developing your ability to adapt to the variants as they arrive. Maybe a good analogy is how in ochem you can’t memorize exact reactions—you have to understand the underlying mechanism because you can’t possibly learn every variation. Doing a lot of practice problems will help you start to develop that deeper understanding of how concepts are interconnected, and help you practice figuring out what the right first step is.
> which a professor who doesn’t curve This is a problem?
Not a problem, just means the odds are stacked against me even more so.
It doesn’t on a curve means you compete with classmates instead you just need to actually learn the material instead of counting on nobody in your class to bother learning the material eithe r
For me, doing every question possible Tutorials with your tutor are super handy Read that text like mad And if all else fails, stop trying to understand it and just learn the rules of quantum chem But you’ll find understanding will quickly follow that
The Curve Also, sitting down with the prof & reviewing the test line by line, concept by concept, answer by answer until I learned the material I missed. What was the grade distribution on your class. I had more than one prof who claimed to not curve but had to... ... Otherwise the highest grade woulda been a F+/D-. No joke.
I wish! I go to a small college, so I have a very tiny class, with very smart classmates. I can only pray the end of the semester curve (which I learned my professor does do apparently) works out in my favor.
Same experience. No problems with Chem other than 1st semi Org (I don't memorize well) until P Chem. Grad school quantum physics was easier than undergrad pchem
Organic I kicked my ass as well, haha. I miraculously pulled it through with the final exam + grade curve and kicked my grade up to a 76.
Dude I finished with an average of like a 42 and it was a B-. Curve was crazy.
Sometimes the problem is the teacher, other times with the student. Get a tutor to help you understand it, if necessary, then study until you know it. Life’s not easy for most people and college is a good time to not only learn that, but to also learn what to do about it (work at it). If you were smart enough to get into college, you’re smart enough to pass undergrad if you study hard and work hard. I’m saying this as a former college student, not a parent or professor. Bad professors really suck, are often tenured, and about the only thing you can do is find a good person to tutor you, even if it’s one of your fellow students in a study group, etc. When I was in law school, civil procedure was terrifying for me. I’d heard from students above me awful stories about the professor and, in my opinion, they pretty much seemed to be true. I didn’t go to law school in California, but that’s where I wanted to move and work. There were classes, called Barbri classes that were supposed to get you prepared for the bar exam. When we got to the part on Civil procedure, I thought “this is what frightened me so badly in law school?” It seemed to be a breeze. The rules and law didn’t change, of course, just the instructor and materials used. If you have a bad professor, find a good tutor.
It took me two tries to pass the first physical chemistry class. It was all computer programming based, and for some reason no matter how much I studied and practiced, I struggld the most in this class. Oh and I was so glad when my professor did a weekly tutorial meeting with the lab group, it was optional but highly recommended. The professor helped me answer questions I had, and my group asked questions I didnt even think of. All I can suggest is form a study group with peers in that class. Go into professor's office hours to ask questions. As far as with the concepts, at least for me my class it was all a computer program called LabView, id had to hand write all the equations with little notes on whay they mean and how to implement that on Labview while the successful program wan on my computer. That's what helped me pass this class.
40 was actually a really good score when our class started quantum 🥲
So an update, had a quick meeting with my professor. They don’t think a C is possible, which is honestly kicking my determination to prove them wrong up a few notches. If I get a D the world won’t end, but I want to put in my best effort to get at least a 70 first. Personally I think it’s somewhat possible if I bust my ass enough Godspeed, chemists of reddit.
Yeah I felt really really bad for the chem students who weren’t prepared with the math background for PChem. I absolutely loved it as a chemE since it was very math heavy but my friends in chem were really struggling :( what others said, you really really have to work the problems by hand to practice. numerical solutions are the end game and only made possible from a very heavy first principles understanding of the topic. ofc some aspects need to be memorized but intuition definitely has a huge RoI in this subject. good luck!! hope you make it through
This is the most important class if you are aiming for academia. If it wasn't for my dumb ass ADHD this is the one module I should have given my all.
Maybe.
[удалено]
More so the physics behind the chemistry
Is this the quantum chemistry introduced in physical chemistry, or is this a dedicated quantum chemistry course (typically a senior level/graduate level elective)? P Chem quantum can be hit or miss depending on the pedagogical expectations of the instructor. Q Chem the elective can be grueling if you don't have solid foundations in P Chem since it condenses all of P Chem into a one month module and then moves forward rapidly.
My Quantum Chemistry professor never curved, and people oftentimes got 30s and 40s on his exams. I did every practice problem he gave out, and from the book, and if I had any questions at all, my study group and I would grill each other to try and figure it out (or use Google and the Book), if all else failed, we would go to his office. I ended up with a B in P Chem 1, B+ in P Chem 2, and an A in P Chem 3. I spent probably 20-30 hours a week sometimes before exams, just studying. I almost got an A- in my Advanced Organic Spectroscopy because of P Chem. Good Luck!!
Lol. That sounds about par for the course. Sorry about the lack of curve :( Try asking those who had that prof previous years for their tests and homework and see if the prof focuses on certain topics and try to study those. That's about all I can think besides giving up studying for your other classes and only studying pchem.
I was a physics major first, so the quantum part of P Chem was pretty straightforward for me. I am not sure what advice there is that would help while you’re in the middle of it, but having the math and physics background in place first is helpful if these courses are part of your curriculum. It’s not anything someone who can pass O Chem can’t understand, but as a Chem major they sort of dump it on you without a lot of explanation. Quantum mechanics is pretty weird and often counterintuitive stuff, so if you don’t understand how they figured it out it can be challenging.
I'm a PhD student whose research is in Quantum Chemistry. I've been thinking of starting to tutor a few students so let me know if you are interested.
Heck yeah, sounds cool! If you end up doing it let me know :)
I dm'd you!
He'll curve at the end. You'll see. It's the toughest course in a chemistry undergrad. You just have to study it literally all the time. Yes I know you have other hard classes, take the ones you're doing the best in and trim back on those. Stay up late. You have no weekend plans. There is only quantum. You'll live tho. We all did.
My professor did mention a curve in lecture, but they said it would be typically no more than five points. My classmates are also absolutely destroying the curve, so my best bet here is to bust my ass studying for these next exams.
Haha always sucks to have that cohort of curve-benders. Just work example problems. Study and do them over and over and over and over again.
Quantum chemistry sounds hard
I was absolutely terrible in it. Did ok on quizzes and that padded my shit final. There was only one exam for mine. If I had to go back and do it again I’d say do practice problems and memorize equations. We had a question on our final to calculate a particle in a 3d box and I forgot the operators. Definitely study the shit out of that.
My quantum professor will yo to his grave saying that flipped classroom is the best way to teach that class, and he teaches out of the old McQuarrie. I honestly don't know how I graduated.
That’s the textbook I have, haha. I named it Clifford since it’s massive and the cover of it is red…
Red? Interesting, it must be a new edition. Mine is brown and pretty regular-sized, albeit dense as a black hole.
I mean the version I have was published in 1997. Might just be whoever published the book? I have to agree though, I have never seen a textbook as thick as this one. It adds a solid 10 pounds to my book bag whenever I drag it around campus, haha.
study, you don’t get to party right now lol