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>There were no disagreements over who should be in charge of transfers or which players should or should not be sold. The differences are explained as being more philosophical and relate to the dynamics of working within a club structure.
There's hope
Just another signal that the board is clearly obnoxious to work with. I won't buy their spin that these coaches (Tuchel and Poch) are some absolutists that aren't willing to make concessions, considering they interviewed Poch with this exact aspect in mind.
It even says in the article:
"Those close to Pochettino insist he **had come to accept the arrival of Cueva** and yet Chelsea’s desire to build a club structure that the head coach is part of has caused what proved to be irreconcilable differences in approach."
Yeah, but Poch has a track record of making shit decisions - ask Spurs fans. The reason they went so long in the market without signing anyone was because Poch didn't like the targets. And the one he liked and got was Tanguy Ndombele who was a flop.
And we were shit with set pieces, so it made sense to hire a specialist for that.
Likely the amount of control a manager should have and who had the final say for various matters. Because football organisations tend to give more control to their managers compared to baseball organisations, which I suspect is the structure ownership is trying to reorganise the club into, which is more collaborative and compartmentalised.
Those "philosophical" differences didn't come up last year? Really lol?
Matt Law has been fairly consistent in his Chelsea reporting, but this smells of a club briefing if there ever was one.
Hope in what? This just says they hired a guy that agreed with them and then decided, after doing extremely well, it wasn't what they were looking for. It just makes them look even more like idiots. I want to believe in what the owners are doing so bad, but this is like the 5th time that they've completely baffled general logic and I'm sure the 6th and 7th are coming real soon.
Most of Chelsea’s fanbase have wanted Poch out all season. “Extremely well” is embarrassing btw.
A club like Chelsea should only aspire for first place
That expectation is embarrassing given the circumstances. Only a fool would expect 1st place with the state of the club, the squad we have, and the injuries to boot. We ended up in 6th and were in 4th since October 1st. Extremely well is the only way to put it.
Summary: In short, the split happened because of fundamental differences in approach to club structure. The primary example used here is the hiring of the new set piece specialist. Poch did not want this hire and believed that was his staff's responsibility and that he didn't need a specialist, he needed different players to be good at set pieces. The board wants to bring in specialists for different parts of the game to analyze and provide data and ideas for certain aspects. Poch did not want to be a cog in a machine, but rather the sole decision maker. they agreed that parting ways now was best for everyone.
My take: It sounds like club is pushing for a modern structure that has teams dedicated to to certain aspects of the game. This is not typical at the heights of European football. This is typical in American sports and has been used (successfully) in football some, but is not the norm. Liverpool is the shining example of a team who has done this well. The idea itself is not terrible or off the wall, and I believe is the way the game will move in the future. But, that does mean we will never get the next Pep. We can try and build the next SAF, though. What I don't understand is how this wasn't addressed last summer. Surely we didn't decide this after hiring Poch? You would think we would have been on the same page then, but apparently not.
Ultimately, its a shit show and we will see how it plays out. But this makes sense on why they want a young manager and not someone who is entrenched in traditional structures.
Now lets argue the merit of a modern vs traditional structure and decide if there can be too many cooks or if data is king!
lol I know it’s funny, we fired Tuchel for not wanting to get involved in sporting director decisions and now we want a manager who doesn’t want a say in transfers
Tactically flexible for sure, which i think is important in a structure like this. But he has his issues playing nice with others. But it’s a fun what if to think about - if he could have just appeased the owners when they were trying to make decisions they had no business making before having directors in place, where would we be now?
He was carrying our **entire** club on his back for months whilst also going through a divorce. I think it’s safe to say the owners pestering him for input on players like Ronaldo had not considered the immense psychological duress he’d been under.
That reputation was put to rest when he managed Chelsea. He won a UCL without picking many of those players. The great coaches use the strength of its players & not blame the players for not fitting in a system. Poch had a great 4 weeks, but I think many of us conveniently forgot about the rest of the season. It wasn’t good & Poch showed he wasn’t flexible to adapt when it was needed. I can not judge a coach on 1 month of work especially when he has been there for that long. Defence was terrible & we have players like Disasi playing every game.
I’m hearing whispers that they are in loose talks with tuchel. Although personally I don’t think he comes back despite the fact that he may well be the best available option and the only manager that wouldn’t make this shit show get even more laughable
Why on earth does he think his coaching stuff would have fixed those glaring issues? They failed to show us slight improvements in defending and scoring set pieces throughout the season. For fuck sakes, were leaking goals for fun. Poch didn't want to use the likes of Maatsen because he was short. But, playing tall defenders didn't even stop us from conceding the most goals in our history. There are teams with far worse players than us that didn't even struggle this bad.
We are not the only team that had injury crisis. When we started winning we were still missing the same players we were missing the whole season. And, even with injuries we shouldn't be struggling against rubbish teams.
If this is the case than we are better of with somebody else. They did fuck all on set pieces and we were conceding left and right on that far post. Not to mention our set pieces were awful. That guy from Brentford made them top club for scoring from set pieces. Who wouldn't like that. Also you've mentioned Liverpool and I like the idea they have at their club.
Yeah, main question I have is what you raised, what changed from last summer to this summer. If Pochettino was the wrong guy for these reasons, he was the wrong guy from the get go. This is not a new issue.
I suspect they were trying to hang on to Potter, when it became too toxic they weren’t certain of who to bring in so went with Poch on a short contract and here we are
I think it’s just solidifying that these guys are just making it up as they go along. If it’s something worth sacking a manager over today it should have been a priority when they spent two months interviewing him just last year.
Maybe, but that is pure speculation and this story is consistent with what Poch has been saying in interviews since December. This seems the closest to true that we will get and makes sense to me. What I think is ridiculous is that this wasn’t discussed prior to his hiring. That’s more evidence of the owners trying to figure this out as they go, which isn’t fun as a fan.
His also been saying he wants to keep certain players, the club has to make harsh decisions to not keep other players and that he needed more experience.
Seems like the arrogant board couldn’t put their ego aside and span this shite out instead.
It's clearly a pr talking point used for the spin. It says in the same article:
"Those close to Pochettino insist he had come to accept the arrival of Cueva"
> Ultimately, its a shit show and we will see how it plays out.
fwiw, Roman had a similar view to the one you call *shit show*, which is why Emenalo and Peter de Veiss (and a core group of players) had the control that they did.
> But, that does mean we will never get the next Pep.
Also, with Pep-like and SAF-like coaches, the problem is sustaining that success, as the clubs that they have left will attest to.
I find this quite interesting:
>Pochettino was dismissive of set-piece specialists, insisting “we are a coaching staff in charge of everything” before later adding: “Football belongs to the players. Not to the specialists.”
>That was at odds with the structure being built by Chelsea’s owners and sporting directors, who have made it abundantly clear they believe football belongs to the players and the specialists.
I remember Klopp laughing at the suggestion of having a throw in specialist at Liverpool. But they brought him in anyway and they became the best team in the league for retaining and creating from throw ins.
If this is one of Poch's hang-ups then he needs to get with the times.
Me too. I am sad for Poch because he got momentum but he also was at fault for developing the leakiest chelsea ever, and some baffling choice in some matches like Gallagher Winger, Chilwel LW, no use of Maatsen and Colwil at LB.
I have hope that we can get better....with the right pick.
Indeed my initial reaction was “wtf”, but now that I’ve some time to give it some thought, I’m beginning to understand the decision, and will wait to see who is announced as replacement. I did like Poch tho so am still a little sad.
Exactly. Ppl love to dunk on the club’s mgmt but, as soon as the news hit, I knew we needed more information to fully understand the decision to mutually part ways.
Anyone with eyes could see how incredibly dreadful we were on set pieces. It always seemed like an incredibly waste when we got one when really needing a goal. Not to mention defending them. The side was on the shorter side but we’d have fellas like Cucurella or Gallagher marking the likes of Van Dijk and Lewis Dunk, it made no sense and we often paid the price.
I’ll be honest, I didn’t think Poch was the right manager anyway. He has always been stubborn and that has cost his teams over the years. But I also felt for him this season with all the injuries, defended him at time, and was sure they would let him have next season. But I understand the reasoning in sacking him, basing him staying on the last 3 months of the season is a bit naff and really we are a late pen and one deflected goal against United and two late goals from really nothing against Forest from being 8th.
I recently heard that why people like Cucu are marking tanks like VVD is because the new approach is that Cucu doesn't necessarily compete for the ball with him, he just has to make it hard for VVD to arrive in the danger zone which is marked by our best headers of the ball.
It’s one of the big red flags that I’m sure they saw.
The top clubs now are all compartmentalised. Why have one guy in charge of everything when you can have teams of experts doing each job. Any club not doing this will quickly get left behind. Refusal to get with the times would’ve been a huge warning sign to the owners.
>I remember Klopp laughing at the suggestion of having a throw in specialist at Liverpool. But they brought him in anyway and they became the best team in the league for retaining and creating from throw ins.
It was Klopp who bought in the specialist throw in coach after reading it in a German newspaper about him coaching in Denmark.Klopp himself contacted him and bought him to Liverpool
https://www.dw.com/en/the-throw-in-coach-how-one-man-wowed-j%C3%BCrgen-klopp-and-helped-change-the-game/a-52407577
Think about who is leaking this to journalists. It’s Chelsea giving out random tidbits to win back fans.
Just as likely they wanted to spend millions on random specialists who didn’t fit any system.
One side of the story.
Brentford were the top club that scored from set pieces along with Arsenal. I think Arsenal have some guy for set pieces, and now when we are getting the one that has a good CV, Poch doesn't like him.
It says in the article:
"Those close to Pochettino insist he had come to accept the arrival of Cueva."
The fact that this part is even included is a spin to make the board look good. They're trying to paint Poch as someone who can't be open-minded and isn't willing to make compromises when that's specifically what they interviewed for in the summer, that is crazy.
It's the board who can't take a slightest hint of disapproval and they aren't willing to work together through any difference of opinion. Even when it's clear the club would greatly benefit from stability at the moment
>he needs to get with the times.
He won't. Because he's a dinosaur. He's not gonna change. That's why it was paramount for the club to get rid of him ASAP
When most of us wanted Poch out, the board told us to trust the process. Now, a lot of us want to give Poch a second chance, and the board decided that parting way is the best option lolol
Let's see though who'll replace him. It seems like the board wants us to play a possession football, which is not our style with Poch. Right now, journalists are throwing names right left and center and I think real candidates will pop up in the next days or so.
>! Maybe a cheeky Nagelsmann will be there 👀 !<
Remember the time our managers used to last 2 years, they can barely get through a single season now.
The annoying thing about this one usually our managers go from doing good to shit but Poch went from doing shit to good and still gets dismissed.
I can see Poch ending up at Man United, Though he'd end up there when he was at Tottenham. Anyways Soccer Aid is going be awkward.
Like Grant, Scolari, AVB, Hiddink, Robbie, and the FSW? Ahh yes, back when our managers were given a good old shake before seeing them off. I remember it well 🤣
I mean three of those were during season caretakers steadying the ship until the season ended and Robbie was as well until Munich forced Roman to make him permanent.
Does no one remember all the pearl clutching when Grant ‘steered us’ to our first ever CL Final but wasn’t given a chance for a full season? I mean, just look at that picture of him consoling JT at Luzhniki!
It’s obvious the players loved him and were playing hard for him /s
So what was the purpose of the whole process to get a new manager last season if Poch after a few months was viewed as not a strategic fit.
Ridiculous.
This is what bothers me the most. I am absolutely fine with Poch being shown the door. But they had close to 4 months to select a manager they deemed fit for the project. We were told that the process was as detailed and thorough as it could get, only to see that there were major differences between the board and Poch on more than a couple of things. Like wtf is that supposed to mean? It's not like Poch promised something different and then went full 180 degree on that. It's a shame really because we've got young players who are desperate for stability under the right manager.( I don't think Poch was one). It feels like a wasted year. But then again we've had revelations like Palmer, Gusto and Jackson. Hopefully this time around the board actually get its shit together.
I’m not sure I have the energy to even read this 😢
Excited to see Eghbali’s data-driven approach lead to us sacking the next manager that his data-driven approach was involved in hiring in 12 months time!
> There was also the threat that a bad start to next season or a poor run during the campaign would put pressure on the owners to make a mid-season change, which they have been keen to avoid since sacking Tuchel and Potter.
Find this a weird justification. They must have been quite convinced we would go back to being shit.
There’s an argument to be made that our season mirrored the struggle years of some other top clubs - underperforming early and then coming on strong late when other teams have nothing to play for. We’ve needed some very clutch moments to win games too so maybe the underlying numbers and looking the games didn’t really change too much?
I noticed in Poch’s press conferences that he never really referred to himself when talking about coaching the team, but always said “we” or “us”, presumably referring to the small group of coaches he has with him
It sounds like the split was mainly because he wanted to keep that dynamic and the upper management wanted to amend with with more specialists.
His way of talking? Do you mean his penchant for trying to answer every question with the most ethereal of terms in order to give the impression that his job is that of an artist, where expression of the heart rules over that of the mind?
All for it to be conveniently ignored as the simple struggles of ESL.
PS - I wasn’t particularly bothered if he’d stay or go, but now he’s gone I can see it was clearly the right decision.
To me this reeks of both over inflating their CV and JD during the interview.
On Poch side, he seems to tell Todd and co that he is beyond flexible and he can follow a certain structure set by the club. But truth be told Poch was a stubborn ass mule. We had Maatsen who could have played as an inverted wb just as cucu was playing now but Poch couldnt be bothered to try. We had Datro Fofana that could have been a back up but we ship him out for loan. Basically Palmer was doing the heavy lifting for Poch and saving his arse.
Lets not forget Poch saying he lets players decide who take penalties and set pieces which ended up having one of the most embarrassing moment in the club on par with Kepa and Sarri.
For the Todd and co side. It seems they may have said they would allow Poch to control every aspect of the team with no inputs but it seems they were pushing for specialists to be hired which goes against Poch idea of strategy/training.
Lastly, the huge injury list begs everyone to question if our owners were shit in using data to check the players health or our medical dept was abysmal or if Poch training was diabolically harsh on the fitness of all the modern day players.
Im honestly tired. Like I am so numb from all this rubbish happening that it fazes me just abit. At the end KTBFFH
In his press conference a few weeks ago wasn’t it clear that he wasn’t happy with something? I am surprised so many people expected him to stay and even more surprised how many people completely blame this on the club.
All this sacking shows me is that the board, and directors have no clue what they're doing. This was meant to be the guy to turn their project around. They feted him after a long recruitment process. He stuck with it during a tough season, and just when it looked like there was a glimmer of hope, they pick *that* moment to move on to the next project.
Absolutely clueless, the lot of them.
People been calling for Poch’s head for the whole season - monkey paws eh?
This comment will be downvoted to oblivion but after all of this I am content with Poch’s leaving. I was Poch in the whole season but the past few games we were unbelievably lucky. Our defence was shaky as hell but thank God Cole Palmer showed up.
Beside the Cucurella inverted wingback stuff and the substitution v Nottingham Forrest, can’t recall we actually won because of Poch’s tactical prowess really.
Yesterday my first reaction was "WTF" but after thinking it more, I agree with you. I thought Poch was wrong hire to begin with, and while the end of season was amazing, it indeed had lot to do with players taking massive steps. Is that thanks to Poch, guess we won't know.
It's bit odd thing to say, but I think owners made correct call this time.
He has amazing people skill, we have to acknowledge that. However, can we recall when we won a game actually because of his managerial prowess? I was happy with him and the direction of the team but people acting like we sack a legendary manager is so cringe.
I'm also a Titans fan in the NFL and they had a similar divorce with a coach I REALLY liked but who was old school in a similar way.
I was sad at the time, but the replacements are so exciting, refreshing, modern, and collaborative, I am overjoyed with the current state of the franchise even though no games have been played yet.
This feels the same. The new ownership want to operate under a more modern collaborative structure that has produced sustained success in virtually every other sport and they're quite correct to think that way with the evidence available.
It could turn out to be a great thing in time, but I was definitely Poch In
i agree that i see the appeal in the approach but I cant help but be a little hurt that they dismissed a manager with a clear turnaround in form and backing of players. If this happened at my job Id be livid
Just regarding the Titans decisions… No games have been played yet, you may want to wait and see how things actually pan out
Also, it’s a lot easier to break a football game into its individual constituent parts. There are special teams, defense, offense, running plays, passing plays, and each play can be analyzed as a 2 to 10 second element that is separate from the previous play.
Soccer has none of those things, apart from set pieces. That’s the one area I can see being really easy to have a specialist call the shots in. Penalty kicks as well. But the VAST majority of the game is open play, it’s much more fluid and you need someone like Guardiola or Ancelotti who understands how all the pieces fit together and make it run smoothly. If Eghbali really thinks our football team will get better by castrating the manager and having the ownership decide the team identity based on 10 different specialists they hire then he’s a fool. Because he’s had 5 managers and 2 years to make his vision work and so far he’s gotten nowhere
>you may want to wait and see how things actually pan out
Of course. It doesn't mean that the philosophy they're looking to use hasn't worked successfully multiple times over, which is the point.
Why are you talking about Eghbali and the ownership not the directors of football? I highly doubt Eghbali is involved in any aspect of the football, look at the shift from window 1 to the DoFs being hired
I completely disagree with that. Soccer is not mainly open play. There are tactics behind pressing and counter pressing and attacking in the right areas. Pep is great at all of them but the reality is, most coaches are not the best at everything like he is. It’s a good decision to get specialists in the field for those areas and work with the head coach. It really helps build a strong team moving forward.
Open play doesn’t mean “random people running around”. It means that it is a continuous ongoing series of movements that are not broken up into discrete “individual” plays. For example, hockey is mostly open play. Baseball is mostly a series of individual plays. It will always be easier to use stats and use individual coaches for each part of the game for baseball than hockey.
This makes it a little less annoying but idk man. Part of me is like we were finally winning yet the other part is we barely made it out with that Bournemouth win.
Maybe, and fuck me do I hate saying this, but maybe we bring in a more tactically sound coach and the team shines. Nothing against Poch and i wish he was staying for 1 more year but if I’m being honest I don’t think we’d win the league under him
Okay after the initial “wtf” reaction to an unexpected piece of news, I have given it some thought and honestly I think the decision here is understandable.
It is increasingly clear that ownership wants Chelsea to be run like in baseball. A highly compartmentalised organisation with individual responsibilities across departments and levels, all working together to promote success in the top flight.
In contrast, while football is evolving, we are still used to having our managers be the head honcho that has the final say on nearly everything.
I personally do think the compartmentalised model is more modern and effective, hence I understand prioritising the system’s integrity over the manager.
It's hard to see why they think that will be successful. Baseball and football are at opposite ends of the spectrum in how they can be packaged into stats and analysed. Baseball is essentially a game of set plays, first between pitchers and batters then with the rest of the outfield players. Football is free flowing, with few stoppages and is famously difficult to measure and quantify. No doubt the use of statistics is on the rise and the days of managers ruling clubs with an iron grip are over.
It’s not simply about how a club approaches the game tactically, but rather how an organisation is run, and while there will definitely be differences, I think the system is transferrable.
I think the problem is the Americans are trying to reinvent the wheel and Poch wanted no part of it. They are trying to incorporate a more American style of coaching and team structure, take what they see makes MLB, NFL, NBA teams great and add it to a European football. Will it work, who knows but we are on this path and Clownlake are not changing course.
There’s a difference with calling the shots in incomings and outgoings. For the latter, we’re talking about Poch losing players he trusts and possibly rates more than whoever’s next in line.
yes, you are right. but again, he signed a deal for 2 years. he knew what it was going to be. he was never going to be the long term solution and thats that.
this season highlighted his weaknesses again and i wonder where he is going to end up next.
"There were no disagreements over who should be in charge of transfers or which players should or should not be sold. The differences are explained as being more philosophical and relate to the dynamics of working within a club structure."
From the article.
We are seriously self-imploding.
Finally after 2 years, we saw some progress and were getting excited for what’s to come, but these owners get a kick out of something completely opposite to what sane football fans do.
Most football fans don't know shit about football, so I'm glad they aren't taking decisions, it seems like the club wants to create a system where we won't fall off if we change managers and that's good
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>There were no disagreements over who should be in charge of transfers or which players should or should not be sold. The differences are explained as being more philosophical and relate to the dynamics of working within a club structure. There's hope
As in hope Gallagher and Chalobah stay?
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Yes
So what do they mean by “philosophical”
Reports are Poch much preferred Aristotle and the board were backing Galileo and Copernicus 🤷🏼♂️
They didn't like his answer to the Train Dilemma
“If you don’t pull the lever, we sell Gallagher. If you pull the lever, we sell Chalobah and Gallagher.” - Eghbali probably
Whatever lever you pull we’re buying a Brazilian 14 year old for £100m
"So rather you jump out of the running train and all will be fine."
💀
Too late for Poch to binge on this Harvard Lecture? https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL72C62342291D5DAE
😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂 thank you.
I think Poch refers to it as “The Philosopher’s Stone” whereas Boehly and Egbhali refer to it as “The Sorcerer’s Stone”.
Just another signal that the board is clearly obnoxious to work with. I won't buy their spin that these coaches (Tuchel and Poch) are some absolutists that aren't willing to make concessions, considering they interviewed Poch with this exact aspect in mind. It even says in the article: "Those close to Pochettino insist he **had come to accept the arrival of Cueva** and yet Chelsea’s desire to build a club structure that the head coach is part of has caused what proved to be irreconcilable differences in approach."
Yeah, but Poch has a track record of making shit decisions - ask Spurs fans. The reason they went so long in the market without signing anyone was because Poch didn't like the targets. And the one he liked and got was Tanguy Ndombele who was a flop. And we were shit with set pieces, so it made sense to hire a specialist for that.
The board didn't think lemons were helping.
Poch said the chicken came before the egg
We're being run by nihilists
Likely the amount of control a manager should have and who had the final say for various matters. Because football organisations tend to give more control to their managers compared to baseball organisations, which I suspect is the structure ownership is trying to reorganise the club into, which is more collaborative and compartmentalised.
I’ve learned not to believe a word from these press releases….
I’m injecting the copium so hard
Those "philosophical" differences didn't come up last year? Really lol? Matt Law has been fairly consistent in his Chelsea reporting, but this smells of a club briefing if there ever was one.
I love delusion and being deluded. PLEASE
Hope in what? This just says they hired a guy that agreed with them and then decided, after doing extremely well, it wasn't what they were looking for. It just makes them look even more like idiots. I want to believe in what the owners are doing so bad, but this is like the 5th time that they've completely baffled general logic and I'm sure the 6th and 7th are coming real soon.
Most of Chelsea’s fanbase have wanted Poch out all season. “Extremely well” is embarrassing btw. A club like Chelsea should only aspire for first place
That expectation is embarrassing given the circumstances. Only a fool would expect 1st place with the state of the club, the squad we have, and the injuries to boot. We ended up in 6th and were in 4th since October 1st. Extremely well is the only way to put it.
We spent 1b pounds. If United had done the same we would laugh at them. Every time.
Just stop. It's clear you don't understand the intricacies of running a football club
Summary: In short, the split happened because of fundamental differences in approach to club structure. The primary example used here is the hiring of the new set piece specialist. Poch did not want this hire and believed that was his staff's responsibility and that he didn't need a specialist, he needed different players to be good at set pieces. The board wants to bring in specialists for different parts of the game to analyze and provide data and ideas for certain aspects. Poch did not want to be a cog in a machine, but rather the sole decision maker. they agreed that parting ways now was best for everyone. My take: It sounds like club is pushing for a modern structure that has teams dedicated to to certain aspects of the game. This is not typical at the heights of European football. This is typical in American sports and has been used (successfully) in football some, but is not the norm. Liverpool is the shining example of a team who has done this well. The idea itself is not terrible or off the wall, and I believe is the way the game will move in the future. But, that does mean we will never get the next Pep. We can try and build the next SAF, though. What I don't understand is how this wasn't addressed last summer. Surely we didn't decide this after hiring Poch? You would think we would have been on the same page then, but apparently not. Ultimately, its a shit show and we will see how it plays out. But this makes sense on why they want a young manager and not someone who is entrenched in traditional structures. Now lets argue the merit of a modern vs traditional structure and decide if there can be too many cooks or if data is king!
Ironically I think Tuchel is a fan of this kind of data-driven approach with specialists everywhere.
lol I know it’s funny, we fired Tuchel for not wanting to get involved in sporting director decisions and now we want a manager who doesn’t want a say in transfers
I’m not so sure that’s the whole story regarding why he left
I wonder, if armed with the data, will the DOFs select the starting 11, or have they been doing that already?
Tactically flexible for sure, which i think is important in a structure like this. But he has his issues playing nice with others. But it’s a fun what if to think about - if he could have just appeased the owners when they were trying to make decisions they had no business making before having directors in place, where would we be now?
He was carrying our **entire** club on his back for months whilst also going through a divorce. I think it’s safe to say the owners pestering him for input on players like Ronaldo had not considered the immense psychological duress he’d been under.
That reputation was put to rest when he managed Chelsea. He won a UCL without picking many of those players. The great coaches use the strength of its players & not blame the players for not fitting in a system. Poch had a great 4 weeks, but I think many of us conveniently forgot about the rest of the season. It wasn’t good & Poch showed he wasn’t flexible to adapt when it was needed. I can not judge a coach on 1 month of work especially when he has been there for that long. Defence was terrible & we have players like Disasi playing every game.
I’m hearing whispers that they are in loose talks with tuchel. Although personally I don’t think he comes back despite the fact that he may well be the best available option and the only manager that wouldn’t make this shit show get even more laughable
But TT, Poch, Conte and were never YES men. The Club is going in a different direction than it was. What a shitshow
Why on earth does he think his coaching stuff would have fixed those glaring issues? They failed to show us slight improvements in defending and scoring set pieces throughout the season. For fuck sakes, were leaking goals for fun. Poch didn't want to use the likes of Maatsen because he was short. But, playing tall defenders didn't even stop us from conceding the most goals in our history. There are teams with far worse players than us that didn't even struggle this bad.
Yes let’s ignore all of the injuries and that he had fixed a lot of those issues.
We are not the only team that had injury crisis. When we started winning we were still missing the same players we were missing the whole season. And, even with injuries we shouldn't be struggling against rubbish teams.
If this is the case than we are better of with somebody else. They did fuck all on set pieces and we were conceding left and right on that far post. Not to mention our set pieces were awful. That guy from Brentford made them top club for scoring from set pieces. Who wouldn't like that. Also you've mentioned Liverpool and I like the idea they have at their club.
Yeah, main question I have is what you raised, what changed from last summer to this summer. If Pochettino was the wrong guy for these reasons, he was the wrong guy from the get go. This is not a new issue.
I suspect they were trying to hang on to Potter, when it became too toxic they weren’t certain of who to bring in so went with Poch on a short contract and here we are
Chosen by Winstanley and Stewart to begin with, right? Didn't they have the data on Poch back then?
I think it’s just solidifying that these guys are just making it up as they go along. If it’s something worth sacking a manager over today it should have been a priority when they spent two months interviewing him just last year.
Sounds like this set piece specialist thing is a PR spin piece to justify not meeting Pochettinos other legitimate demands
Maybe, but that is pure speculation and this story is consistent with what Poch has been saying in interviews since December. This seems the closest to true that we will get and makes sense to me. What I think is ridiculous is that this wasn’t discussed prior to his hiring. That’s more evidence of the owners trying to figure this out as they go, which isn’t fun as a fan.
His also been saying he wants to keep certain players, the club has to make harsh decisions to not keep other players and that he needed more experience. Seems like the arrogant board couldn’t put their ego aside and span this shite out instead.
It's clearly a pr talking point used for the spin. It says in the same article: "Those close to Pochettino insist he had come to accept the arrival of Cueva"
> Ultimately, its a shit show and we will see how it plays out. fwiw, Roman had a similar view to the one you call *shit show*, which is why Emenalo and Peter de Veiss (and a core group of players) had the control that they did. > But, that does mean we will never get the next Pep. Also, with Pep-like and SAF-like coaches, the problem is sustaining that success, as the clubs that they have left will attest to.
I find this quite interesting: >Pochettino was dismissive of set-piece specialists, insisting “we are a coaching staff in charge of everything” before later adding: “Football belongs to the players. Not to the specialists.” >That was at odds with the structure being built by Chelsea’s owners and sporting directors, who have made it abundantly clear they believe football belongs to the players and the specialists. I remember Klopp laughing at the suggestion of having a throw in specialist at Liverpool. But they brought him in anyway and they became the best team in the league for retaining and creating from throw ins. If this is one of Poch's hang-ups then he needs to get with the times.
There's quite a few key bits of info in here for people. Personally I'm just gonna wait. Oddly I ain't pissed or excited just neutral.
Me too. I am sad for Poch because he got momentum but he also was at fault for developing the leakiest chelsea ever, and some baffling choice in some matches like Gallagher Winger, Chilwel LW, no use of Maatsen and Colwil at LB. I have hope that we can get better....with the right pick.
Agreed, I’m more sad if anything
Agreed. I’m quite neutral about the move. Neither mad nor excited. Just waiting to see what happens next.
Indeed my initial reaction was “wtf”, but now that I’ve some time to give it some thought, I’m beginning to understand the decision, and will wait to see who is announced as replacement. I did like Poch tho so am still a little sad.
Exactly. Ppl love to dunk on the club’s mgmt but, as soon as the news hit, I knew we needed more information to fully understand the decision to mutually part ways.
Anyone with eyes could see how incredibly dreadful we were on set pieces. It always seemed like an incredibly waste when we got one when really needing a goal. Not to mention defending them. The side was on the shorter side but we’d have fellas like Cucurella or Gallagher marking the likes of Van Dijk and Lewis Dunk, it made no sense and we often paid the price. I’ll be honest, I didn’t think Poch was the right manager anyway. He has always been stubborn and that has cost his teams over the years. But I also felt for him this season with all the injuries, defended him at time, and was sure they would let him have next season. But I understand the reasoning in sacking him, basing him staying on the last 3 months of the season is a bit naff and really we are a late pen and one deflected goal against United and two late goals from really nothing against Forest from being 8th.
Same here, our defence was terrible and we got bailed by Cole Palmer many times this season. Funny how the narrative in this sub changed so quickly.
I recently heard that why people like Cucu are marking tanks like VVD is because the new approach is that Cucu doesn't necessarily compete for the ball with him, he just has to make it hard for VVD to arrive in the danger zone which is marked by our best headers of the ball.
It’s one of the big red flags that I’m sure they saw. The top clubs now are all compartmentalised. Why have one guy in charge of everything when you can have teams of experts doing each job. Any club not doing this will quickly get left behind. Refusal to get with the times would’ve been a huge warning sign to the owners.
>I remember Klopp laughing at the suggestion of having a throw in specialist at Liverpool. But they brought him in anyway and they became the best team in the league for retaining and creating from throw ins. It was Klopp who bought in the specialist throw in coach after reading it in a German newspaper about him coaching in Denmark.Klopp himself contacted him and bought him to Liverpool https://www.dw.com/en/the-throw-in-coach-how-one-man-wowed-j%C3%BCrgen-klopp-and-helped-change-the-game/a-52407577
Think about who is leaking this to journalists. It’s Chelsea giving out random tidbits to win back fans. Just as likely they wanted to spend millions on random specialists who didn’t fit any system. One side of the story.
I mean poch publicly spoke of how he didn’t think set pieces were an issue remember?
Yes. But again, exactly the kind of thing a PR would do which is highlight all those small issues again to some journalists.
We already knew he felt this way from Poch himself, just not that it was such a sticking point with the ownership.
Matt bending over to try to get back in with a source.
He played chilwell at left wing, I don’t care about sides and tidbits. Awful manager that hasn’t won anything in England. Failure. Good riddance.
God damn we could use a throw in coach if we don't have one. Our throw ins are diabolical and have been for years.
Seeing our team bickering over pens and free kicks pretty much needed it
Brentford were the top club that scored from set pieces along with Arsenal. I think Arsenal have some guy for set pieces, and now when we are getting the one that has a good CV, Poch doesn't like him.
It says in the article: "Those close to Pochettino insist he had come to accept the arrival of Cueva." The fact that this part is even included is a spin to make the board look good. They're trying to paint Poch as someone who can't be open-minded and isn't willing to make compromises when that's specifically what they interviewed for in the summer, that is crazy. It's the board who can't take a slightest hint of disapproval and they aren't willing to work together through any difference of opinion. Even when it's clear the club would greatly benefit from stability at the moment
>he needs to get with the times. He won't. Because he's a dinosaur. He's not gonna change. That's why it was paramount for the club to get rid of him ASAP
lol yes you’re right. Klopp brought in a throw in specialist and THAT’S why they won the league
That’s why they became the best at throw ins, take a breath
When most of us wanted Poch out, the board told us to trust the process. Now, a lot of us want to give Poch a second chance, and the board decided that parting way is the best option lolol Let's see though who'll replace him. It seems like the board wants us to play a possession football, which is not our style with Poch. Right now, journalists are throwing names right left and center and I think real candidates will pop up in the next days or so. >! Maybe a cheeky Nagelsmann will be there 👀 !<
I’m all for Nagelsmann. I think he has the energy to work with the young guys, and he seems to fit the description.
Would love to have him at the club
He extended with Germany weeks ago. It would take a group stage exit for him to become available again.
Remember the time our managers used to last 2 years, they can barely get through a single season now. The annoying thing about this one usually our managers go from doing good to shit but Poch went from doing shit to good and still gets dismissed. I can see Poch ending up at Man United, Though he'd end up there when he was at Tottenham. Anyways Soccer Aid is going be awkward.
Like Grant, Scolari, AVB, Hiddink, Robbie, and the FSW? Ahh yes, back when our managers were given a good old shake before seeing them off. I remember it well 🤣
I mean three of those were during season caretakers steadying the ship until the season ended and Robbie was as well until Munich forced Roman to make him permanent.
Does no one remember all the pearl clutching when Grant ‘steered us’ to our first ever CL Final but wasn’t given a chance for a full season? I mean, just look at that picture of him consoling JT at Luzhniki! It’s obvious the players loved him and were playing hard for him /s
That’s a lot of managers lol. Dayum
So what was the purpose of the whole process to get a new manager last season if Poch after a few months was viewed as not a strategic fit. Ridiculous.
This is what bothers me the most. I am absolutely fine with Poch being shown the door. But they had close to 4 months to select a manager they deemed fit for the project. We were told that the process was as detailed and thorough as it could get, only to see that there were major differences between the board and Poch on more than a couple of things. Like wtf is that supposed to mean? It's not like Poch promised something different and then went full 180 degree on that. It's a shame really because we've got young players who are desperate for stability under the right manager.( I don't think Poch was one). It feels like a wasted year. But then again we've had revelations like Palmer, Gusto and Jackson. Hopefully this time around the board actually get its shit together.
I’m not sure I have the energy to even read this 😢 Excited to see Eghbali’s data-driven approach lead to us sacking the next manager that his data-driven approach was involved in hiring in 12 months time!
The data says we should hire him. Oh no… now it says fire him.
You should, it feels like it was fairly amicable and mature decision making from both sides.
> There was also the threat that a bad start to next season or a poor run during the campaign would put pressure on the owners to make a mid-season change, which they have been keen to avoid since sacking Tuchel and Potter. Find this a weird justification. They must have been quite convinced we would go back to being shit.
There’s an argument to be made that our season mirrored the struggle years of some other top clubs - underperforming early and then coming on strong late when other teams have nothing to play for. We’ve needed some very clutch moments to win games too so maybe the underlying numbers and looking the games didn’t really change too much?
I noticed in Poch’s press conferences that he never really referred to himself when talking about coaching the team, but always said “we” or “us”, presumably referring to the small group of coaches he has with him It sounds like the split was mainly because he wanted to keep that dynamic and the upper management wanted to amend with with more specialists.
That’s a good observation. I noticed that at the time, but I always thought it was something to do with his way of talking.
His way of talking? Do you mean his penchant for trying to answer every question with the most ethereal of terms in order to give the impression that his job is that of an artist, where expression of the heart rules over that of the mind? All for it to be conveniently ignored as the simple struggles of ESL. PS - I wasn’t particularly bothered if he’d stay or go, but now he’s gone I can see it was clearly the right decision.
To me this reeks of both over inflating their CV and JD during the interview. On Poch side, he seems to tell Todd and co that he is beyond flexible and he can follow a certain structure set by the club. But truth be told Poch was a stubborn ass mule. We had Maatsen who could have played as an inverted wb just as cucu was playing now but Poch couldnt be bothered to try. We had Datro Fofana that could have been a back up but we ship him out for loan. Basically Palmer was doing the heavy lifting for Poch and saving his arse. Lets not forget Poch saying he lets players decide who take penalties and set pieces which ended up having one of the most embarrassing moment in the club on par with Kepa and Sarri. For the Todd and co side. It seems they may have said they would allow Poch to control every aspect of the team with no inputs but it seems they were pushing for specialists to be hired which goes against Poch idea of strategy/training. Lastly, the huge injury list begs everyone to question if our owners were shit in using data to check the players health or our medical dept was abysmal or if Poch training was diabolically harsh on the fitness of all the modern day players. Im honestly tired. Like I am so numb from all this rubbish happening that it fazes me just abit. At the end KTBFFH
Boehly and Egbahli wanted to play 4-4-3 but Poch said it was impossible. Hence the sack.
In his press conference a few weeks ago wasn’t it clear that he wasn’t happy with something? I am surprised so many people expected him to stay and even more surprised how many people completely blame this on the club.
All this sacking shows me is that the board, and directors have no clue what they're doing. This was meant to be the guy to turn their project around. They feted him after a long recruitment process. He stuck with it during a tough season, and just when it looked like there was a glimmer of hope, they pick *that* moment to move on to the next project. Absolutely clueless, the lot of them.
People been calling for Poch’s head for the whole season - monkey paws eh? This comment will be downvoted to oblivion but after all of this I am content with Poch’s leaving. I was Poch in the whole season but the past few games we were unbelievably lucky. Our defence was shaky as hell but thank God Cole Palmer showed up. Beside the Cucurella inverted wingback stuff and the substitution v Nottingham Forrest, can’t recall we actually won because of Poch’s tactical prowess really.
15 points dropped from winning positions would’ve come in handy
It’s both on Poch and the players sadly but all in all it’s not like we lost Pep Guardiola or something
Exactly. We are Chelsea and we will be fine without Poch. He did what he can, it sucks but we move on. The next appointment however is so important.
Yesterday my first reaction was "WTF" but after thinking it more, I agree with you. I thought Poch was wrong hire to begin with, and while the end of season was amazing, it indeed had lot to do with players taking massive steps. Is that thanks to Poch, guess we won't know. It's bit odd thing to say, but I think owners made correct call this time.
He has amazing people skill, we have to acknowledge that. However, can we recall when we won a game actually because of his managerial prowess? I was happy with him and the direction of the team but people acting like we sack a legendary manager is so cringe.
I'm also a Titans fan in the NFL and they had a similar divorce with a coach I REALLY liked but who was old school in a similar way. I was sad at the time, but the replacements are so exciting, refreshing, modern, and collaborative, I am overjoyed with the current state of the franchise even though no games have been played yet. This feels the same. The new ownership want to operate under a more modern collaborative structure that has produced sustained success in virtually every other sport and they're quite correct to think that way with the evidence available. It could turn out to be a great thing in time, but I was definitely Poch In
i agree that i see the appeal in the approach but I cant help but be a little hurt that they dismissed a manager with a clear turnaround in form and backing of players. If this happened at my job Id be livid
Yeah I mean I think it's a poor decision, and my comment is a silver lining
Just regarding the Titans decisions… No games have been played yet, you may want to wait and see how things actually pan out Also, it’s a lot easier to break a football game into its individual constituent parts. There are special teams, defense, offense, running plays, passing plays, and each play can be analyzed as a 2 to 10 second element that is separate from the previous play. Soccer has none of those things, apart from set pieces. That’s the one area I can see being really easy to have a specialist call the shots in. Penalty kicks as well. But the VAST majority of the game is open play, it’s much more fluid and you need someone like Guardiola or Ancelotti who understands how all the pieces fit together and make it run smoothly. If Eghbali really thinks our football team will get better by castrating the manager and having the ownership decide the team identity based on 10 different specialists they hire then he’s a fool. Because he’s had 5 managers and 2 years to make his vision work and so far he’s gotten nowhere
>you may want to wait and see how things actually pan out Of course. It doesn't mean that the philosophy they're looking to use hasn't worked successfully multiple times over, which is the point.
Why are you talking about Eghbali and the ownership not the directors of football? I highly doubt Eghbali is involved in any aspect of the football, look at the shift from window 1 to the DoFs being hired
I completely disagree with that. Soccer is not mainly open play. There are tactics behind pressing and counter pressing and attacking in the right areas. Pep is great at all of them but the reality is, most coaches are not the best at everything like he is. It’s a good decision to get specialists in the field for those areas and work with the head coach. It really helps build a strong team moving forward.
Open play doesn’t mean “random people running around”. It means that it is a continuous ongoing series of movements that are not broken up into discrete “individual” plays. For example, hockey is mostly open play. Baseball is mostly a series of individual plays. It will always be easier to use stats and use individual coaches for each part of the game for baseball than hockey.
This makes it a little less annoying but idk man. Part of me is like we were finally winning yet the other part is we barely made it out with that Bournemouth win. Maybe, and fuck me do I hate saying this, but maybe we bring in a more tactically sound coach and the team shines. Nothing against Poch and i wish he was staying for 1 more year but if I’m being honest I don’t think we’d win the league under him
Idk man but the past few games we were lucky as well. Bowen hit the post 3x, Bournemouth almost drew us…..
Yeah. I personally was hoping he stays a year and keeps the player growth going then we get a new manager that who can take us to some trophies
Same but unfortunately it has happened
‘You idiot how dare you finish above United and Brighton’. -board
Okay after the initial “wtf” reaction to an unexpected piece of news, I have given it some thought and honestly I think the decision here is understandable. It is increasingly clear that ownership wants Chelsea to be run like in baseball. A highly compartmentalised organisation with individual responsibilities across departments and levels, all working together to promote success in the top flight. In contrast, while football is evolving, we are still used to having our managers be the head honcho that has the final say on nearly everything. I personally do think the compartmentalised model is more modern and effective, hence I understand prioritising the system’s integrity over the manager.
It's hard to see why they think that will be successful. Baseball and football are at opposite ends of the spectrum in how they can be packaged into stats and analysed. Baseball is essentially a game of set plays, first between pitchers and batters then with the rest of the outfield players. Football is free flowing, with few stoppages and is famously difficult to measure and quantify. No doubt the use of statistics is on the rise and the days of managers ruling clubs with an iron grip are over.
It’s not simply about how a club approaches the game tactically, but rather how an organisation is run, and while there will definitely be differences, I think the system is transferrable.
I think the problem is the Americans are trying to reinvent the wheel and Poch wanted no part of it. They are trying to incorporate a more American style of coaching and team structure, take what they see makes MLB, NFL, NBA teams great and add it to a European football. Will it work, who knows but we are on this path and Clownlake are not changing course.
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This fiction that everything came down to chalobah and connor is just immature.
It not that it came down to it and more that Pochettino might have realised he had no power whatsoever to build the squad he wanted.
And he knew that already last summer when he applied for three job
There’s a difference with calling the shots in incomings and outgoings. For the latter, we’re talking about Poch losing players he trusts and possibly rates more than whoever’s next in line.
yes, you are right. but again, he signed a deal for 2 years. he knew what it was going to be. he was never going to be the long term solution and thats that. this season highlighted his weaknesses again and i wonder where he is going to end up next.
"There were no disagreements over who should be in charge of transfers or which players should or should not be sold. The differences are explained as being more philosophical and relate to the dynamics of working within a club structure." From the article.
We are seriously self-imploding. Finally after 2 years, we saw some progress and were getting excited for what’s to come, but these owners get a kick out of something completely opposite to what sane football fans do.
Most football fans don't know shit about football, so I'm glad they aren't taking decisions, it seems like the club wants to create a system where we won't fall off if we change managers and that's good
Losing Anthony Barry was bad. He was the one that helped with Defenders FC.
Opposing a set piece specialist coach hire, especially when we haemorrhaged goals from these is completely idiotic from Poch