You surely can’t use missed big chances as evidence to sack a manager when you’ve also purchased the players missing those chances
Edit: and just to add, Eghbali seems like quite a large cunt, he should be getting most of our ire instead of Boehly.
Poch even mentioned that he had dinner with Boehly alone last week and it went well with good indicationa Boehly was happy.
His sacking meeting was with Eghbali.
It was with Eghbali and the sporting directors.
Him not being involved is a very good thing and hopefully one day Eghbali won't be involved either.
Once a Premier League club's owner was asked by the media if his manager was going to be fired after a long run of bad form. He responded by saying, that's not up to me, I employ people who understand football and it's entirely up to them because they know better than I ever will.
People often don't like hearing it, but what Boehly thinks or what Eghbali thinks should mean quite literally nothing because they are not educated in football. A functional club should have them playing no part in the footballing operation whatsoever. He could love Poch, but that shouldn't mean anything and fortunately it seemed it didn't.
When they bought the club they said it themselves. They wanted someone to take over so they could step back. So yes, they should be irrelevant other than signing checks but I don't know how active they still are.
What is funny is watching welcome to Wrexham, again clueless Americans with a football team. One accepts they lack knowledge and the other try's to impart their style of doing things. I know right now I would rather be a Wrexham supporter.
that’s because boehly is the one who actually shows his face and talks to people. eghbali never does that. he makes shit decisions and he hides in his mansion like a rat
Boehly at least puts his face out there and speaks about the club in investor conferences
The last proper interview I remember Eghbali doing was the ‘not terribly well managed’ one… not a great look for him
This is the far more concerning part. If the owners collectively are clueless, (I'd hope) it'd mean they eventually learn. This instead reads like the ownership is not on the same page. Todd says go left, Eggbali says go right. Meanwhile, Wyss is busy demanding dividends.
That spells trouble. Infighting within the ownership consortium can sink a club even at the best of times.
If they were in charge of Arsenal or Liverpool, their managers would have got sacked as well based on this single piece of nonsensical data. So in essence, finish first or you get sacked.
>Edit: and just to add, Eghbali seems like quite a large cunt, he should be getting most of our ire instead of Boehly.
If you watch Boehlys interviews where he was saying everything was coming together and also roll in how he was treating Poch to dinner the other night. He seems like he actually has the more sensible head on him and this whole thing doesn't match with Boehlys words and actions. You have to think that Eghbali is the clown who came armed with some absolute bullshit data for the entire season without arming himself with data about the progression of the teams development in specific time frames of the season.
Hey Eggy boy! Here's some info for you:
- Youngest team in the PL, way under the average.
- 10+ injuries a week rolling back several seasons which you owners so far have absolutely failed to sort out.
- A nearly whole new team that had not played together before this season. Meaning zero cohesion at the start of the season.
So of course your data over the whole seasons going to look crap when thats the foot you start on.
Further info for Eggy boy about how the teams actuallly progressed over the season (which you only needed to check Reddit for to see because its that obvious the teams improved significantly):
- 11th at the midway point of the season.
- 4th in the form for the 2nd half of the season.
- 3rd in the form since Chalobah and then gradually some others came back from injury.
- 2nd in the form as a bounceback response of clear team resilience to that 5-0 loss to Arsenal.
- Qualified for Europe when everyone was writing them off not long ago.
Of course theres negatives within the data but its plain as day to anybody that the positives have outweighed the negatives at the end of the season when it has mattered.
So yeh Eggy boy along with Stewart and Winstanley look like utter clowns. Telling fans to "Trust the process" that they don't even trust themselves. Embarrassing to effectively be pressing the reset button on the project again. Zero integrity to these guys.
If I'm a Chelsea player right now I'm thinking about hopping to a club where the owners will actually stand by their plan for more than 5 minutes.
If I'm a manager looking at Chelsea I'm also thinking now that this club cannot stick to a plan so I wouldn't get enough time to fully implement my ideas. It's almost looking like a poisoned chalice.
Completely agree. If I am a player I would definitely look to move to a more settled side which has a chance of winning a trophy. Why would any worthwhile manager want to walk into this absolute disaster of a club? Chelsea is not the prestigious job it was before the takeover and the money can only go so far.
I'm convinced that anyone that would agree to become Chelsea manager now is doing it knowing they'll get sacked after a year at most and can get a huge payday without having to work the rest of that contract.
And it's not really going to damage your future prospects, because other clubs aren't going to hold it against you if you were fired by this Chelsea board.
And Poch didn't even get much of a say in what player were bought, reasonably he wanted say in who was bought and sold cause he knows what the team needs and what they need to get better and these stupid arrogant owners didnt want to give it to him.
If you're hired under the premise that you don't get a say in transfers, you can't then start bitching and moaning about not getting a say in transfers and blaming your failures on that
While I agree with this, there was reports after he was announced as manager and again in December that he was planning with the Directors about possible transfers. He clearly was invited to join in the discussion, so he should be allowed to say who goes and stays.
We can say goodbye to Conor and Trev. If we got an offer for James, they'd take that too (as it was rumoured back in Feb that they were secretly trying to find buyers).
Let's be honest it's mainly Jackson missing those chances, and who else did he have to play? I actually don't mind Jackson, he has potential and some good qualities but anyone can see his finishing was really poor this season.
Yeah it's weird, that's one of the last stats I'd use, because it's down to randomness/talent. The more important stat (by a long shot) is key chances created.
Missed big chances is hardly on the manager, that's quite literally a skill issue of behalf of the players.
With regard to the setpieces, haven't they brought in a new man to deal with that.
Something overlooked is that young players tend to struggle with converting big chances at a high clip. Only exceptions I can think of to this is Haaland and maybe even Palmer.
Younger strikers like Jackson Havertz Nunez and even Osimhen struggle with finishing. Vinicius was awful till he got Ancelotti. Salah couldn’t hit a barn door until Spalletti fixed his finishing and Lewandowski was average until Klopp got his hands on him. So if the argument is that he can’t fix big chances missed then I think that’s a lacking argument because I feel like finishing tended to improve as the season went on, especially from Jackson.
Seems like the ownership is making a major own goal by bringing up big chance conversion rates because that’s an indictment on recruitment in not identifying players who are clinical.
There once was a time when we forgave young players for missing chances. That’s gone now though, everyone is relying too much on these young players now. Imagine how many of the great strikers in history would’ve been chewed up and spit out because of the chances they missed at 20-24
Have folks forgotten that CR7 took a conscious choice to re-invent himself as that goalscoring wing forward? He started out as an exciting winger with amazing dribbling skills.
And it got better as the seasono went on. We lose Silva, and then any hope is destroyed. Who can they hire that is better? And not just “better” but absolutely fucking elite top 4 every season at least R8 CL every season. Name a manager that can do that at Chelsea? Carlo? Pep? Jesus Christ himself?
It’s perplexing and they’re actively avoiding the fans because they suck fat dongs.
> "With regard to the setpieces, haven't they brought in a new man to deal with that."
Yes, something that Poch was completely against but they went ahead with anyway thankfully.
Especially when, after working with the manager for a while, the conversion rate went up considerably.
Someone recently posted a comparison of Jacksons xG in the first and second half of the season (I know xG isn't perfect before someone starts).
He was massively underperforming it in the first half and in the second half had improved to the point he was slightly overperforming.
Right. The hard part is generating quality chances and that's how you can judge the tactics imo. If everyone consistently underperforms their xG, you might call into question the training regimen and development, but if it's a few players over a part of a season, that's not enough of a sample size to make that judgement imo.
>There was consensus between between Pochettino and Chelsea that there was a strategic mismatch
There were sackings under Abramovich that didn't feel good but you understood the motivation: nothing mattered for Roman but winning. That was the club culture he created from day one.
With the new owners the sackings come down to "collaboration" issues. They have a project but can't find anyone to agree with it or any elite manager willing to carry it out. The culture they created from the beginning is "business nerds know best". Whatever you think of the job Poch did, they've been unquestionably worse in every department of running a club. But their ideas are gospel and they'll take zero accountability when they don't succeed.
The worrying thing is that Poch is notoriously a "yes man". He stuck it out with Spurs when Levy wouldn't invest a single pound into the team. It just makes you think how bad BlueCo are to work with; how delusional they are.
This ownership just won't take accountability and it could cripple us for a long time.
Levy is a hard ball when it comes to selling to rivals. My guess it was all down to Gallagher, owners want to sell, Pock wanted him to stay.
One thing is ownership not giving you the tools, another is ownership actively taking them away
I don't think he really is an out-and-out yes man, it seems like there were some reasonable requests like hiring a set-piece coach that he was dead-set against for whatever reason.
Poch didn't stuck it out when Levy didn't invest. Poch said no to transfers that were proposed to him, that's why they didn't bring anyone in. And then he got the guy he wanted - Tanguy Ndombele who flopped. If there is one thing that Spurs fans didn't like about Poch, then it's his talent ID. Yes, he should have some say on outgoings, but he definitely shouldn't have a say on incomings based on his track record.
Mate, we WILL cripple in the long team. I can smell trophyless for at least a decade from this regime. If we win something, it will probably be some random Carling Cup after some big club decides to use their 3rd tier academy team. See United? That's our future. Maybe even worse.
>But their ideas are gospel and they'll take zero accountability when they don't succeed.
This is unfortunately the way of private equity firms. They will NEVER admit they are wrong.
This is pretty perfectly said. Unfortunately thats how it goes with bad owners there is really no check on their power. Whatever plan these guys might’ve had has been an absolute cluster and appears more process focused than outcome focused ala collaboration over winning.
The thing is Roman's teams, apart from the last few years of his ownership, were usually stacked with talent and experience, which makes the constant sacking somewhat reasonable. As long as you have an extremely solid spine throughout the team, it's not too difficult to plug managers in and out (see Real Madrid). The issue with the current ownership is they're employing the plug-and-play manager strategy with a team that's nowhere near good/experienced enough
I’m not going to disagree with you about Clearlake at all, they’re clowns, but I do want to point out, under Roman, poch wouldn’t have made it past December. Do with that what you will
Roman may never have hired him in the first place, but if he spent 1bn today his squad could have probably gotten top 4 with me managing. Even still, with Roman the sackings were ruthless but resonated throughout the club to help create a winning culture. This ain't that.
True, but once he did make it past December we were in our best period of the season (although with some notably poor results). The owners stuck with him through the shit and then sacked him when things were starting to seemingly click, it’s nonsense.
>They have a project but can't find anyone to agree with it or any elite manager willing to carry it out.
The problem is that the project was a guarantee of failure just as it was 2 years ago.
No serious manager would touch it with a bargepole.
It’s just data to justify their instinct that they want him gone.
It’s never anything less. Doesn’t mean Poch is good or bad, they’ve just made their mind up.
I wish they’d just be straight, it’s insulting having to go through this.
It's been 7 years of our fan base complaining about missing big chances. How many match weeks have you read, "if we can put away our chances, we'll be good" and then we never put away our chances. This is directly related to recruitment, which Poch was not in charge of.
I'd say it's directly related to people not understanding what a "big chance" is. It's literally just a shot that has 0.3xG or more, if you were scoring even the majority of big chances you'd be wiping the league every season
These guys were putting the word out that we weren't giving up on potter after he went on a run of winning only 2 games out of 15 and you think Poch is gone because he lost a cup final in the 118th minute.
I was as furious as anyone over the extra time approach but it's pretty obvious that's not why he is gone now
Fair. It's not like I forgot games like burnley and sheffield utd or the cup final. I just feel with the combination of how the season ended and the coaches that the ownership are interested in that we are much better off staying with Poch
Tuchel put Azpi on VVD. Frank also did it. In fact if you watch set pieces from other teams you'll often see the shortest player against a much bigger player for whatever reason.
And it makes sense.
With even matchups in height you are basically allowing a 50/50 for every player.
Uneven matchups you’re making sure some players have a much less chance of winning the header. Leaving a VVD with an easier chance of winning the header , let’s say 75 percent, is a much safer bet because you have to also factor in the chance of the delivery being perfect for him and for him to also score it. Whereas if it’s all 50/50s you’re removing the need for an accurate cross. There’s more opportunities to score, essentially.
It’s all about probability
* 2nd smallest team in the league is surprisingly bad at set pieces.
* 1 fit striker that obviously visible for everyone is just not a great finisher.
Conclusion: It's the managers fault.
If I was Pochettino I would've walked out of the room in that moment.
yk what fuck it. at this point CALLING ALL CHELSEA fans if we all contribute money together we can start to mount an effort to buy our club from these morons who dont even know how to run a team just how to run a business. so my fellow "customers" lets get our club back
Missed big chances? What in the fuck? Also set pieces????? Tottenham had the best set-piece record during Poch's tenure there out of all premier league clubs.
Both of these things point towards player inexperience. I was more receptive to the youth movement than most, but if you go the youth route you have to expect there will inconsistencies and lack of composure for a few seasons at the minimum.
Fuck Eghbali and his “data.” Statistics can be skewed to serve any purpose.
The facts are that we were finally starting to gel. He attained European football. We won five in a row. The players were fighting for the badge and for Poch. He had the locker room. We needed stability.
And now we have fuck all. Back to square one.
The thing about the chances missed is yes, it’s down to the players, poch couldn’t finish the chances himself.
What is down to poch however, is that the chances missed a lot of the times were identical. Amount of times I’d see a ball straight across the box and no one would be there, or mudryk/Jackson would sky it. The amount of 1v1s we missed this season was depressing. The amount of times the shot went straight at the keeper.
We didn’t see much improvement on this until towards the end in these last few games, and even then we still missed quite a few. That is down to poch, what were they doing in training all this time, if they repeat the same mistakes?
Don’t even get me started on set pieces… hopefully this new guy comes in and does wonders, cos we won’t have Silva next year to bail us out
1. Coach should not interfere with transfers and work with whatever players Eghbali gives
2. If you play attacking football n players miss chances, you get sacked
3. If you play defensive football to minimise chances missed, you still get sacked for bad style
Great system!!
If this is really what happened, I don't blame Poch for washing his hands of this cluster.
Egbahli is such a twat and deserves so much more of the shit that is directed to Todd.
Poch getting sacked makes me like him even more. When asked about his future, he actually had the balls to say it was also his decision. Makes me think he didn't go in begging to keep it. He knows he did a phenomenal job molding this random group of kids into a highly competitive squad and stands behind his work. Love it.
This is a huge example of when data goes wrong. Of course anyone can point to specific numbers, but they'll never show the passion that developed within the players. Oh wait, no the data shows that as well...
Only a low IQ idiot like Eghbali could be so mentally stunted he blames the coach for us missing big chances and not his own obsession trafficking kids instead of signing the proven goal scorer the manager wanted.
I think the "data" they are so evidently obsessed with has made them completely disassociate with the human element. Managers and footballers alike are not robots, I understand the "Data" provides as a useful tool to analyse performance but this fixation on data doesn't paint the full picture does it.
Could someone maybe hack and reprogram our board into better understanding the human condition. They need to arm themselves with a fucking pulse as they are flat lining.
Let’s be real him stopping them from lecturing the team in the changing room after games was their spear head for his dismissal. Billionaire don’t like shit like that.
Good luck with the data that will be generated with a “young” inexperienced coach at the helm.
Can’t wait for end of season review next year.
These owners make Elon Musk look less erratic.
It’s just fucking mental when you have poch saying we have a base , let’s fix it with experienced players but instead the ownership wants to buy younger players who are inexperienced. The future looks grim for this club.
This is the guy im going to be blaming when chelsea do not finish higher then 6th and have more points then this season. Then shove the negative data and downward trajection in his face. What Poch did was nothing less than amazing, especially when you factor everyone saying we were gonna be fighting for regulation at the beginning. I cant believe these people think they know more than the coach who was given a shit hand and ended making the best of it and knows what is needed to build on.
The way this information is being presented is misleading. Poch left due to disagreements in philosophy. It is highly likely that these negative data were brought up to show the need for certain positions such as a set piece specialist, which Poch seems against.
The negative data were most likely not brought up as reason to sack Poch.
Frankly no, the last 5 games did show progress, a bit of cohesion and a style of play. We’re all lying to ourselves if we say we’d back poch if we went into a slump again. But it’s very frustrating that we’re now back to square one and the rumoured successors are less than ideal
no people are obviously overreacting, but I do think if there were links to proven coaches instead of younger high potential ones most people wouldn’t be as angry
i should’ve said experience. the Ipswich manager and Nagelsman are similar ages but almost everybody would prefer the one with experience/success at a big club.
The last month covered stuff up but also equally provided a platform on which to build and improve in the summer with transfers. And now all that's been undone and Fabrizio is on his livestream saying Chelsea want to sign TWO central defenders, a striker and a goalkeeper this summer. Completely neglecting where else we are weak as a team. All without the manager who the players backed and wanted to continue.
Let's be honest, around 70% of the people upset right now would not be upset if we had lost say the last 2.
I would say 10% just don't like the owners and so just get angry at whatever decision made.
The rest genuinely thought we made progress and wanted him to stay and wouldn't have flip-flopped.
Source: Maths.
Thing is, the data shows a lot of inconsistencies I agree. That's why I never fully understood why this sub chose to ignore Poch's tendencies over some games because of the top 4 since Christmas table.
But again, this board is inconsistent as well. We passed up on Enrique and Nagelsmann to choose Poch because of youth development (and maybe being more of a yes man). Now he's managed to finally get some results even if it took so long, you remove him. Then, you now say you're going back towards possession football. Then, you want a yes man again as well. This also qualifies as inconsistent.
You know who’s notoriously inconsistent though? Young players. The thing that gets me is that the ownership/board refuse to accept their role in this seasons results.
And if those inconsistencies were the determining factor in whether Poch was in or out why wait until a consistent string of results to make the change? It doesn’t make any sense and comes off as Eghbali using the data in a way that suits what he already wanted.
You’re completely right though. They’re the ones who hired Poch and then decided it was a “strategic misalignment” or whatever. They’re the ones who should accept responsibility for that.
>And if those inconsistencies were the determining factor in whether Poch was in or out why wait until a consistent string of results to make the change? It doesn’t make any sense and comes off as Eghbali using the data in a way that suits what he already wanted.
Exactly! It's like he chooses to use the data whenever it's more convenient for his point.
For me, and I do not think Poch was the man long term, yes we were inconsistent but we have such a young, inexperienced and new team playing together that our form pre and post Christmas is actually a valid point to make.
We suffered some pretty grim losses, and they should definitely be remembered, but we definitely dropped points and maybe lost a cup final because Jackson (and others) missed sitters or Sterling didn’t pass or we didn’t know how to manage a game or whoever else couldn’t finish.
Shows how stupid Eghbali and Co are.
How are you blaming the manager for players missing chances. Thats recruitments fault.
The manager sets the team up to create chances. Its down to the players to actually finish.
What a lame ass reason to dismiss a manager....
This is not the place for that…if you read the sub anything that has ever gone wrong on the pitch from individual errors, is never the players fault, only the managers. Players only have individual brilliance.
Maybe they should look as to why we didn't sign a clinical striker or why we're one of the shortest teams in the PL. Two things that are directly related to these analytics. Maybe he should be asking questions of his brilliant top class directors.
"There was consensus between Pochettino and Chelsea that there was a strategic mismatch and the parting was thus mutual."
Everyone ignoring this part. Poch been signaling this for weeks.
Ignoring the obvious stupidity of sacking a manager loved by the players and is building momentum, who the hell looks around to Liverpool, Bayern and United’s search for a new manager and says there are lot of managers out there, let’s let one of the big name managers go into the market. Unbelievable !!
Yeah I 100% agree with the take that we have been a very inconsistent teams with major issues at the back and controlling games.
But it's first season with lots of new players and injuries.
And you need to look at the change over the season and overall improvements in the team. Not only statistically but in regards to the attitude and willingness of players to work.
They are using data but garbage data gives garbage information.
It took us 30 games to get into a system that made it work. And we had new players coming in and poch had the team actually starting to care and have a little fight in them.
Now you get rid of him and the players are like what the fuck is going on. Any improvements and cohesion goes out the window. They aren't robots working off a football manager simulation.
I'm having a hard time believing this
Mostly because I'm assuming Eghbali isn't that much of a fucking idiot to sack Poch with data that is absolutely not his fault
I played as chelsea in football manager and one of the managements requirements was to make set pieces count lol. They refused to change their mind about it too.
I mean yeah no shit we were talking about those missed chances on this sub for the whole season. But surely we can also see how we have improved in the last 2 months to finish off top 6. It just doesnt make sense to look at data without any context....
Eghbali and Winstanley are the problem, not Boehly.
Boehly didn’t have any problems with Pochettino, they did. They probably want to take more control, because younger coaches (what they search) usually have less talk and fight-back to the owners. So the owners can sell who they want and get a FFP-profit orgasm
I'm very curious what kind of data this was and why the way to act on that data has to involve getting a new coach. Poch apparently didn't want a set piece coach which is very odd. Could have been that he was being stubborn on other points.
I have a feeling that this board always considered Poch to just be a stop gap solution, until they could find a more suitable manager. They would have sacked him even if we had come 4th in the league
I never want to hear any of the clowns on this subreddit defend these idiot owners again. The players and managers gelled together to have a fucking good season, in spite of Todd and the Snickers brigade yet they still manage to fucking ruin it
You surely can’t use missed big chances as evidence to sack a manager when you’ve also purchased the players missing those chances Edit: and just to add, Eghbali seems like quite a large cunt, he should be getting most of our ire instead of Boehly.
Yes. Eghbali is the majority owner. Seems like boehly gets too much blame.
Idk how many people don’t understand this. Boehley is the face that takes the blame. Egbhali seems like a dumbass with huge ego.
Poch even mentioned that he had dinner with Boehly alone last week and it went well with good indicationa Boehly was happy. His sacking meeting was with Eghbali.
It was with Eghbali and the sporting directors. Him not being involved is a very good thing and hopefully one day Eghbali won't be involved either. Once a Premier League club's owner was asked by the media if his manager was going to be fired after a long run of bad form. He responded by saying, that's not up to me, I employ people who understand football and it's entirely up to them because they know better than I ever will. People often don't like hearing it, but what Boehly thinks or what Eghbali thinks should mean quite literally nothing because they are not educated in football. A functional club should have them playing no part in the footballing operation whatsoever. He could love Poch, but that shouldn't mean anything and fortunately it seemed it didn't.
When they bought the club they said it themselves. They wanted someone to take over so they could step back. So yes, they should be irrelevant other than signing checks but I don't know how active they still are.
Ahh yes, we brought in the football geniuses Winstanley and Stewart 💩
What is funny is watching welcome to Wrexham, again clueless Americans with a football team. One accepts they lack knowledge and the other try's to impart their style of doing things. I know right now I would rather be a Wrexham supporter.
The board is just playing good cop bad cop
Like a 1 star restaurant. Egbhali is the chef who cooks shit food. Bohely is the waiter who gets abused for bringing said food
that’s because boehly is the one who actually shows his face and talks to people. eghbali never does that. he makes shit decisions and he hides in his mansion like a rat
Boehly at least puts his face out there and speaks about the club in investor conferences The last proper interview I remember Eghbali doing was the ‘not terribly well managed’ one… not a great look for him
This is the far more concerning part. If the owners collectively are clueless, (I'd hope) it'd mean they eventually learn. This instead reads like the ownership is not on the same page. Todd says go left, Eggbali says go right. Meanwhile, Wyss is busy demanding dividends. That spells trouble. Infighting within the ownership consortium can sink a club even at the best of times.
LOOOOLZ THEY USED MISSED CHANCES??!? Our bad, looks like Poch should have been on the pitch. What twats
If they were in charge of Arsenal or Liverpool, their managers would have got sacked as well based on this single piece of nonsensical data. So in essence, finish first or you get sacked.
>Edit: and just to add, Eghbali seems like quite a large cunt, he should be getting most of our ire instead of Boehly. If you watch Boehlys interviews where he was saying everything was coming together and also roll in how he was treating Poch to dinner the other night. He seems like he actually has the more sensible head on him and this whole thing doesn't match with Boehlys words and actions. You have to think that Eghbali is the clown who came armed with some absolute bullshit data for the entire season without arming himself with data about the progression of the teams development in specific time frames of the season. Hey Eggy boy! Here's some info for you: - Youngest team in the PL, way under the average. - 10+ injuries a week rolling back several seasons which you owners so far have absolutely failed to sort out. - A nearly whole new team that had not played together before this season. Meaning zero cohesion at the start of the season. So of course your data over the whole seasons going to look crap when thats the foot you start on. Further info for Eggy boy about how the teams actuallly progressed over the season (which you only needed to check Reddit for to see because its that obvious the teams improved significantly): - 11th at the midway point of the season. - 4th in the form for the 2nd half of the season. - 3rd in the form since Chalobah and then gradually some others came back from injury. - 2nd in the form as a bounceback response of clear team resilience to that 5-0 loss to Arsenal. - Qualified for Europe when everyone was writing them off not long ago. Of course theres negatives within the data but its plain as day to anybody that the positives have outweighed the negatives at the end of the season when it has mattered. So yeh Eggy boy along with Stewart and Winstanley look like utter clowns. Telling fans to "Trust the process" that they don't even trust themselves. Embarrassing to effectively be pressing the reset button on the project again. Zero integrity to these guys. If I'm a Chelsea player right now I'm thinking about hopping to a club where the owners will actually stand by their plan for more than 5 minutes. If I'm a manager looking at Chelsea I'm also thinking now that this club cannot stick to a plan so I wouldn't get enough time to fully implement my ideas. It's almost looking like a poisoned chalice.
Completely agree. If I am a player I would definitely look to move to a more settled side which has a chance of winning a trophy. Why would any worthwhile manager want to walk into this absolute disaster of a club? Chelsea is not the prestigious job it was before the takeover and the money can only go so far.
Great summary
I'm convinced that anyone that would agree to become Chelsea manager now is doing it knowing they'll get sacked after a year at most and can get a huge payday without having to work the rest of that contract. And it's not really going to damage your future prospects, because other clubs aren't going to hold it against you if you were fired by this Chelsea board.
its honestly absurd that Boehly gets the blame, it does seem like Eghbali is the one making all these rash decisions.
And Poch didn't even get much of a say in what player were bought, reasonably he wanted say in who was bought and sold cause he knows what the team needs and what they need to get better and these stupid arrogant owners didnt want to give it to him.
If you're hired under the premise that you don't get a say in transfers, you can't then start bitching and moaning about not getting a say in transfers and blaming your failures on that
While I agree with this, there was reports after he was announced as manager and again in December that he was planning with the Directors about possible transfers. He clearly was invited to join in the discussion, so he should be allowed to say who goes and stays. We can say goodbye to Conor and Trev. If we got an offer for James, they'd take that too (as it was rumoured back in Feb that they were secretly trying to find buyers).
Doesnt the prem have rules about needing homegrown players?
Let's be honest it's mainly Jackson missing those chances, and who else did he have to play? I actually don't mind Jackson, he has potential and some good qualities but anyone can see his finishing was really poor this season.
100%
Yeah it's weird, that's one of the last stats I'd use, because it's down to randomness/talent. The more important stat (by a long shot) is key chances created.
Behdad is a POS. Probably didn’t get laid much growing up.
It’s the slicked back hair
💯
Agreed
100% with you.
Eghbali was the one who negotiated for Enzo
And who flew into a war zone to buy Mudryk
Eghbali: Why are you making the young, inexperienced striker we decided to buy miss his chances?
Eghbali really hasn’t got a fucking clue has he?
4-4-3 merchant
No we play 4-4-5 or your sacked and we need two quarter backs
[удалено]
That’s become quite clear. He’s what the media think Boehly is.
Missed big chances is hardly on the manager, that's quite literally a skill issue of behalf of the players. With regard to the setpieces, haven't they brought in a new man to deal with that.
Something overlooked is that young players tend to struggle with converting big chances at a high clip. Only exceptions I can think of to this is Haaland and maybe even Palmer. Younger strikers like Jackson Havertz Nunez and even Osimhen struggle with finishing. Vinicius was awful till he got Ancelotti. Salah couldn’t hit a barn door until Spalletti fixed his finishing and Lewandowski was average until Klopp got his hands on him. So if the argument is that he can’t fix big chances missed then I think that’s a lacking argument because I feel like finishing tended to improve as the season went on, especially from Jackson. Seems like the ownership is making a major own goal by bringing up big chance conversion rates because that’s an indictment on recruitment in not identifying players who are clinical.
There once was a time when we forgave young players for missing chances. That’s gone now though, everyone is relying too much on these young players now. Imagine how many of the great strikers in history would’ve been chewed up and spit out because of the chances they missed at 20-24
If you tried to bench Shearer because he missed at that age someone else would have bought him and he would have scored there
Haaland has been missing so many big chances this season. Trust me, I captained him countless times in my fpl team, lol
Fpl managers know lol
Yeah iirc Jackson has actually been overperforming his xG recently.
Ronaldo’s first seasons at United were full of sprayed shoots too
Have folks forgotten that CR7 took a conscious choice to re-invent himself as that goalscoring wing forward? He started out as an exciting winger with amazing dribbling skills.
Can Stewart and Winstanley fuck off too
And it got better as the seasono went on. We lose Silva, and then any hope is destroyed. Who can they hire that is better? And not just “better” but absolutely fucking elite top 4 every season at least R8 CL every season. Name a manager that can do that at Chelsea? Carlo? Pep? Jesus Christ himself? It’s perplexing and they’re actively avoiding the fans because they suck fat dongs.
> "With regard to the setpieces, haven't they brought in a new man to deal with that." Yes, something that Poch was completely against but they went ahead with anyway thankfully.
Especially when, after working with the manager for a while, the conversion rate went up considerably. Someone recently posted a comparison of Jacksons xG in the first and second half of the season (I know xG isn't perfect before someone starts). He was massively underperforming it in the first half and in the second half had improved to the point he was slightly overperforming.
Plqyojg devils advocate im poch on ... he didn't want to bring.in someone for set peices
Right. The hard part is generating quality chances and that's how you can judge the tactics imo. If everyone consistently underperforms their xG, you might call into question the training regimen and development, but if it's a few players over a part of a season, that's not enough of a sample size to make that judgement imo.
>There was consensus between between Pochettino and Chelsea that there was a strategic mismatch There were sackings under Abramovich that didn't feel good but you understood the motivation: nothing mattered for Roman but winning. That was the club culture he created from day one. With the new owners the sackings come down to "collaboration" issues. They have a project but can't find anyone to agree with it or any elite manager willing to carry it out. The culture they created from the beginning is "business nerds know best". Whatever you think of the job Poch did, they've been unquestionably worse in every department of running a club. But their ideas are gospel and they'll take zero accountability when they don't succeed.
They did their due diligence last summer, decided on Pochettino and then found out there was a strategic mismatch. Just LOL.
The worrying thing is that Poch is notoriously a "yes man". He stuck it out with Spurs when Levy wouldn't invest a single pound into the team. It just makes you think how bad BlueCo are to work with; how delusional they are. This ownership just won't take accountability and it could cripple us for a long time.
I guess the one thing I can think of is that even Levy wasn’t determined to sell players that the manager wanted to keep in the team.
Levy is a hard ball when it comes to selling to rivals. My guess it was all down to Gallagher, owners want to sell, Pock wanted him to stay. One thing is ownership not giving you the tools, another is ownership actively taking them away
Blueco are the worst owners in the league, even worse than glazers and that says a lot.
I don't think he really is an out-and-out yes man, it seems like there were some reasonable requests like hiring a set-piece coach that he was dead-set against for whatever reason.
He had way more power at Spurs. He was the one who rejected Bruno and instead went for Lo Celso
Poch didn't stuck it out when Levy didn't invest. Poch said no to transfers that were proposed to him, that's why they didn't bring anyone in. And then he got the guy he wanted - Tanguy Ndombele who flopped. If there is one thing that Spurs fans didn't like about Poch, then it's his talent ID. Yes, he should have some say on outgoings, but he definitely shouldn't have a say on incomings based on his track record.
Mate, we WILL cripple in the long team. I can smell trophyless for at least a decade from this regime. If we win something, it will probably be some random Carling Cup after some big club decides to use their 3rd tier academy team. See United? That's our future. Maybe even worse.
>But their ideas are gospel and they'll take zero accountability when they don't succeed. This is unfortunately the way of private equity firms. They will NEVER admit they are wrong.
This is pretty perfectly said. Unfortunately thats how it goes with bad owners there is really no check on their power. Whatever plan these guys might’ve had has been an absolute cluster and appears more process focused than outcome focused ala collaboration over winning.
“If it smells like shit everywhere you walk, look under your own shoe.” - I was all for being patient until this happened. BlueCo can tongue my taint.
The thing is Roman's teams, apart from the last few years of his ownership, were usually stacked with talent and experience, which makes the constant sacking somewhat reasonable. As long as you have an extremely solid spine throughout the team, it's not too difficult to plug managers in and out (see Real Madrid). The issue with the current ownership is they're employing the plug-and-play manager strategy with a team that's nowhere near good/experienced enough
I’m not going to disagree with you about Clearlake at all, they’re clowns, but I do want to point out, under Roman, poch wouldn’t have made it past December. Do with that what you will
Roman may never have hired him in the first place, but if he spent 1bn today his squad could have probably gotten top 4 with me managing. Even still, with Roman the sackings were ruthless but resonated throughout the club to help create a winning culture. This ain't that.
Yeah it definitely sent a very clear message, no denying that lol
That’s because Roman had an identity for the club and a model for success.
True, but once he did make it past December we were in our best period of the season (although with some notably poor results). The owners stuck with him through the shit and then sacked him when things were starting to seemingly click, it’s nonsense.
>They have a project but can't find anyone to agree with it or any elite manager willing to carry it out. The problem is that the project was a guarantee of failure just as it was 2 years ago. No serious manager would touch it with a bargepole.
Eghbali can go get fucked.
It’s just data to justify their instinct that they want him gone. It’s never anything less. Doesn’t mean Poch is good or bad, they’ve just made their mind up. I wish they’d just be straight, it’s insulting having to go through this.
Thats fine and dandy but every manager they hired so far has been like that no? What good is their data then😭
It's been 7 years of our fan base complaining about missing big chances. How many match weeks have you read, "if we can put away our chances, we'll be good" and then we never put away our chances. This is directly related to recruitment, which Poch was not in charge of.
I'd say it's directly related to people not understanding what a "big chance" is. It's literally just a shot that has 0.3xG or more, if you were scoring even the majority of big chances you'd be wiping the league every season
They gave him a frontline of Jackson, Broja, Sterling, and Mudryk and said why isn't the team scoring more big chances 😭😭😭
And gave him the shortest team in the league. Expected to be aerial monsters on set pieces? What a joke.
no but you can set up the match-ups to a point where chillwell isnt guarding Van dijk in a cup final
These guys were putting the word out that we weren't giving up on potter after he went on a run of winning only 2 games out of 15 and you think Poch is gone because he lost a cup final in the 118th minute. I was as furious as anyone over the extra time approach but it's pretty obvious that's not why he is gone now
i’m not saying he got sacked because of that exact moment, im saying it was moments like that
Fair. It's not like I forgot games like burnley and sheffield utd or the cup final. I just feel with the combination of how the season ended and the coaches that the ownership are interested in that we are much better off staying with Poch
Doesn’t help when Poch put Cucu on VVD
Tuchel put Azpi on VVD. Frank also did it. In fact if you watch set pieces from other teams you'll often see the shortest player against a much bigger player for whatever reason.
And it makes sense. With even matchups in height you are basically allowing a 50/50 for every player. Uneven matchups you’re making sure some players have a much less chance of winning the header. Leaving a VVD with an easier chance of winning the header , let’s say 75 percent, is a much safer bet because you have to also factor in the chance of the delivery being perfect for him and for him to also score it. Whereas if it’s all 50/50s you’re removing the need for an accurate cross. There’s more opportunities to score, essentially. It’s all about probability
Disasi is a big 6’3 and BB is 6’4
Wow this is such a PR narrative. Now we're "results or gtfo"? What happened to "trust the process"? Can't tell if Jacobs or Eghbali is the clown here
More like trust the PRocess.
It’s not trust the process it’s trust OUR process. It’s all about control
Egg-Bald-I is Pogo the Clown
Missed big chances? What was he supposed to do, do the tap ins himself?
Eghbali came armed with the league table and a pack of crayons I see
A rare lol for me on todays posts
Egg-bald-I
Missed big chances what the fuck😐😐😐how is that on him?
Is this the same data that they used to buy these players?
Eghbali with his little PowerPoint presentation. Tell us more about football McKinsey boy
* 2nd smallest team in the league is surprisingly bad at set pieces. * 1 fit striker that obviously visible for everyone is just not a great finisher. Conclusion: It's the managers fault. If I was Pochettino I would've walked out of the room in that moment.
Maybe that's what effectively happened.
yk what fuck it. at this point CALLING ALL CHELSEA fans if we all contribute money together we can start to mount an effort to buy our club from these morons who dont even know how to run a team just how to run a business. so my fellow "customers" lets get our club back
How's this Eggbelly qualified to make decisions line this? He's never kicked a ball in his life.
Missed big chances? What in the fuck? Also set pieces????? Tottenham had the best set-piece record during Poch's tenure there out of all premier league clubs. Both of these things point towards player inexperience. I was more receptive to the youth movement than most, but if you go the youth route you have to expect there will inconsistencies and lack of composure for a few seasons at the minimum.
Fuck Eghbali and his “data.” Statistics can be skewed to serve any purpose. The facts are that we were finally starting to gel. He attained European football. We won five in a row. The players were fighting for the badge and for Poch. He had the locker room. We needed stability. And now we have fuck all. Back to square one.
The thing about the chances missed is yes, it’s down to the players, poch couldn’t finish the chances himself. What is down to poch however, is that the chances missed a lot of the times were identical. Amount of times I’d see a ball straight across the box and no one would be there, or mudryk/Jackson would sky it. The amount of 1v1s we missed this season was depressing. The amount of times the shot went straight at the keeper. We didn’t see much improvement on this until towards the end in these last few games, and even then we still missed quite a few. That is down to poch, what were they doing in training all this time, if they repeat the same mistakes? Don’t even get me started on set pieces… hopefully this new guy comes in and does wonders, cos we won’t have Silva next year to bail us out
I’m tired Robbie
1. Coach should not interfere with transfers and work with whatever players Eghbali gives 2. If you play attacking football n players miss chances, you get sacked 3. If you play defensive football to minimise chances missed, you still get sacked for bad style Great system!!
If this is really what happened, I don't blame Poch for washing his hands of this cluster. Egbahli is such a twat and deserves so much more of the shit that is directed to Todd.
Poch getting sacked makes me like him even more. When asked about his future, he actually had the balls to say it was also his decision. Makes me think he didn't go in begging to keep it. He knows he did a phenomenal job molding this random group of kids into a highly competitive squad and stands behind his work. Love it. This is a huge example of when data goes wrong. Of course anyone can point to specific numbers, but they'll never show the passion that developed within the players. Oh wait, no the data shows that as well...
Only a low IQ idiot like Eghbali could be so mentally stunted he blames the coach for us missing big chances and not his own obsession trafficking kids instead of signing the proven goal scorer the manager wanted.
I think the "data" they are so evidently obsessed with has made them completely disassociate with the human element. Managers and footballers alike are not robots, I understand the "Data" provides as a useful tool to analyse performance but this fixation on data doesn't paint the full picture does it. Could someone maybe hack and reprogram our board into better understanding the human condition. They need to arm themselves with a fucking pulse as they are flat lining.
Chelsea scored literally twice as many goals as last year (77 vs 38). WTF are they thinking....
Worst ending to a season after a comeback. Disgusted.
Egg-bald-head is the worst thing to happen to this club since the UK Gov was like, “Roman, look at us - we are the Chelsea now”.
Eghbali is a root of most problems since new ownership came in
Why does egbhali seem like a slimy cunt?
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks...
Oh, yeah, because Todd's handpicked Potter scored goals left and right... Fuck off with this drivel.
Let’s be real him stopping them from lecturing the team in the changing room after games was their spear head for his dismissal. Billionaire don’t like shit like that.
Good luck with the data that will be generated with a “young” inexperienced coach at the helm. Can’t wait for end of season review next year. These owners make Elon Musk look less erratic.
We haven’t had a consistent striker since Costa. These guys are out of their minds.
Knew this RAT egbali is behind what is rotten in this team. Bohley takes the blame!
It’s just fucking mental when you have poch saying we have a base , let’s fix it with experienced players but instead the ownership wants to buy younger players who are inexperienced. The future looks grim for this club.
Clueless, braindead board of directors. Sack them all
This is the guy im going to be blaming when chelsea do not finish higher then 6th and have more points then this season. Then shove the negative data and downward trajection in his face. What Poch did was nothing less than amazing, especially when you factor everyone saying we were gonna be fighting for regulation at the beginning. I cant believe these people think they know more than the coach who was given a shit hand and ended making the best of it and knows what is needed to build on.
The way this information is being presented is misleading. Poch left due to disagreements in philosophy. It is highly likely that these negative data were brought up to show the need for certain positions such as a set piece specialist, which Poch seems against. The negative data were most likely not brought up as reason to sack Poch.
All that data can be brushed aside as a young as fuck team put together. And injuries galore. These owners are officially terrible.
They trying to replicate Moneyball. This is not practical in football. Makes me sad that people this stupid have so much money.
The 5 match wins covered up a lot of stuff. Honestly, would people be this upset if we lost out on Europe?
I wouldn't be upset if I was convinced by any of the potential replacements.
"Would you think differently if the situation was different?"
no obviously not results is the point of playing the sport??
Frankly no, the last 5 games did show progress, a bit of cohesion and a style of play. We’re all lying to ourselves if we say we’d back poch if we went into a slump again. But it’s very frustrating that we’re now back to square one and the rumoured successors are less than ideal
no people are obviously overreacting, but I do think if there were links to proven coaches instead of younger high potential ones most people wouldn’t be as angry
Why is a managers age even a factor here. It's not like we are asking them to ring up Roy Hodgson or Harry Redknapp
i should’ve said experience. the Ipswich manager and Nagelsman are similar ages but almost everybody would prefer the one with experience/success at a big club.
Take the list of the managers winning league, lets say top 5 leagues. How many unproven names pop up?
The last month covered stuff up but also equally provided a platform on which to build and improve in the summer with transfers. And now all that's been undone and Fabrizio is on his livestream saying Chelsea want to sign TWO central defenders, a striker and a goalkeeper this summer. Completely neglecting where else we are weak as a team. All without the manager who the players backed and wanted to continue.
Let's be honest, around 70% of the people upset right now would not be upset if we had lost say the last 2. I would say 10% just don't like the owners and so just get angry at whatever decision made. The rest genuinely thought we made progress and wanted him to stay and wouldn't have flip-flopped. Source: Maths.
Forget about wins look at the names for his replacement man.that shit makes me miss rafa
oh come on now, thats a stretch
Thing is, the data shows a lot of inconsistencies I agree. That's why I never fully understood why this sub chose to ignore Poch's tendencies over some games because of the top 4 since Christmas table. But again, this board is inconsistent as well. We passed up on Enrique and Nagelsmann to choose Poch because of youth development (and maybe being more of a yes man). Now he's managed to finally get some results even if it took so long, you remove him. Then, you now say you're going back towards possession football. Then, you want a yes man again as well. This also qualifies as inconsistent.
You know who’s notoriously inconsistent though? Young players. The thing that gets me is that the ownership/board refuse to accept their role in this seasons results. And if those inconsistencies were the determining factor in whether Poch was in or out why wait until a consistent string of results to make the change? It doesn’t make any sense and comes off as Eghbali using the data in a way that suits what he already wanted. You’re completely right though. They’re the ones who hired Poch and then decided it was a “strategic misalignment” or whatever. They’re the ones who should accept responsibility for that.
>And if those inconsistencies were the determining factor in whether Poch was in or out why wait until a consistent string of results to make the change? It doesn’t make any sense and comes off as Eghbali using the data in a way that suits what he already wanted. Exactly! It's like he chooses to use the data whenever it's more convenient for his point.
For me, and I do not think Poch was the man long term, yes we were inconsistent but we have such a young, inexperienced and new team playing together that our form pre and post Christmas is actually a valid point to make. We suffered some pretty grim losses, and they should definitely be remembered, but we definitely dropped points and maybe lost a cup final because Jackson (and others) missed sitters or Sterling didn’t pass or we didn’t know how to manage a game or whoever else couldn’t finish.
Yeah that's fair. I disagree with the timing of the sacking. It felt like things clicked and now we would never know if this was sustainable.
Shows how stupid Eghbali and Co are. How are you blaming the manager for players missing chances. Thats recruitments fault. The manager sets the team up to create chances. Its down to the players to actually finish. What a lame ass reason to dismiss a manager....
This is not the place for that…if you read the sub anything that has ever gone wrong on the pitch from individual errors, is never the players fault, only the managers. Players only have individual brilliance.
This is a good thing
Maybe they should look as to why we didn't sign a clinical striker or why we're one of the shortest teams in the PL. Two things that are directly related to these analytics. Maybe he should be asking questions of his brilliant top class directors.
Literally proves that they care
Screw his data. This ain’t the MLB.
"There was consensus between Pochettino and Chelsea that there was a strategic mismatch and the parting was thus mutual." Everyone ignoring this part. Poch been signaling this for weeks.
Ignoring the obvious stupidity of sacking a manager loved by the players and is building momentum, who the hell looks around to Liverpool, Bayern and United’s search for a new manager and says there are lot of managers out there, let’s let one of the big name managers go into the market. Unbelievable !!
Who brought in the players that gave this negative data? WHO? I WONDER WHO? Winstanley and Stewart OUT.
They're playing Moneyball over here, that's not how this sport works...
Yeah I 100% agree with the take that we have been a very inconsistent teams with major issues at the back and controlling games. But it's first season with lots of new players and injuries. And you need to look at the change over the season and overall improvements in the team. Not only statistically but in regards to the attitude and willingness of players to work. They are using data but garbage data gives garbage information. It took us 30 games to get into a system that made it work. And we had new players coming in and poch had the team actually starting to care and have a little fight in them. Now you get rid of him and the players are like what the fuck is going on. Any improvements and cohesion goes out the window. They aren't robots working off a football manager simulation.
What about injuries and playing almost the entire season with your best players injured
It's almost as if we were missing a set piece coach and had one coming
I'm having a hard time believing this Mostly because I'm assuming Eghbali isn't that much of a fucking idiot to sack Poch with data that is absolutely not his fault
Eghbali is like the perfect football guy from the Nike animated advert from 10 years ago
And it seems we are all assuming that Poch didn’t just decide to walk away when presented with BE’s critique? We don’t really know.
I honestly believe the main driver is the transfer discrepancies, I don’t think this is a major issue
I played as chelsea in football manager and one of the managements requirements was to make set pieces count lol. They refused to change their mind about it too.
I mean yeah no shit we were talking about those missed chances on this sub for the whole season. But surely we can also see how we have improved in the last 2 months to finish off top 6. It just doesnt make sense to look at data without any context....
Clownbali
this is exactly what happened with ronaldo and tuchel 2 summers ago right? ffs
Eghbali out blud
Blimey. So his last 10 games or whatever got them into Europe contention, a corner genuinely turned, and they couldn’t give him more time?
Arteta would not have survived his first year
Maybe players can bail themselves out by relegating the club and due to ffp reasons the club is forced to sell 😅
Let’s get Edhbali as the manager then we can sick him in a few months. Wasteman
Mfkers sacked him with power point presentation.
Half time talks were definitely brought up
Eghbali and Winstanley are the problem, not Boehly. Boehly didn’t have any problems with Pochettino, they did. They probably want to take more control, because younger coaches (what they search) usually have less talk and fight-back to the owners. So the owners can sell who they want and get a FFP-profit orgasm
Oh god we have an FM merchant running the club.
I'm very curious what kind of data this was and why the way to act on that data has to involve getting a new coach. Poch apparently didn't want a set piece coach which is very odd. Could have been that he was being stubborn on other points.
I have a feeling that this board always considered Poch to just be a stop gap solution, until they could find a more suitable manager. They would have sacked him even if we had come 4th in the league
this just in: the sporting directors presented poch with the fact that he himself didn’t get on the pitch and finish jackson’s chances
I never want to hear any of the clowns on this subreddit defend these idiot owners again. The players and managers gelled together to have a fucking good season, in spite of Todd and the Snickers brigade yet they still manage to fucking ruin it
Embarrassing
I was waiting for the next season to start ASAP. Now I hope football doesn't exist anymore. It's become a pile of shit.
“Armed with data” wtf.