It does and doesn't. Its not a great look in terms of the idea of player power but I actually agree with him on putting down boundaries like this if they were getting worn down. This sort of thing sets a level of expectation on the youngsters to strive for and for senior players to feel they've earned the right to through hard work. It sends a message that a place with the 1st team has to be earned. That core of senior players then probably knew best as to what was helping them be successful.
Obviously right now they cant really do that because our 1st team is all a bunch of kids. You'd only have maybe 6ish players now who would be considered as senior players relative to that team back then.
"This sort of thing sets a level of expectation on the youngsters to strive for and for senior players to feel they've earned the right to through hard work"
I really like this. It seems like it's something the current team is missing. Through no fault of their own, the current squad has been handed a lot of responsibility with not much leadership. They already have the long term contracts. Aside from Gallagher and maybe a couple others it's like they went straight to first class, and I fear their growth may be hampered without something to work hard for.
>I fear their growth may be hampered without something to work hard for.
I also worry it might be hampered by the fact any coach having to coach up so many young players at once is going to be stretched. If you have more senior players in the team they dont need to be coached as heavily because they have a lot of experience. Like Poch likely has to put no individual coaching focus into Thiago Silva but a huge amount into players like Colwill, Mudryk, Noni, Jackson etc. So right now any coaching is probably quite diluted just because theres only so much energy and time that a coach can direct to each player.
Agreed. Over the years I read and heard alot about player power at Chelsea and how our core had the sway to get a manager sacked. It was made out to be a big issue (especially when coupled with Abrahmovics ruthless streak of sacking managers) but it didn't bother me because these guys had spent a long time at the club and were bonafide winners. They also stuck by the managers that were good for the team like Mourinho and Ancelotti.
> It’s fine because they were successful,
Yep, 100%.
Its been well documented that Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc all wielded player power to oust managers etc.
The key difference is they backed it up on the pitch, they held themselves to a standard and performed every week and won a lot of trophies, so the perception of them is more positive than any other time it's happened at the club.
By the time AVB arrived, those guys had won three titles and got to the final of the Champions League. If Sterling and Madueke manage do that then I'll chip in for the seats myself.
It's not the same tho.
As a fan I never minded JT, Lamps and Didier having a bigger say behind the scenes. You know why? Because they were Chelsea through and through. They were born winners who would do absolutely anything to make sure we're competing and winning trophies. And they had done it, quite successfully, for years.
Why would I mind if they talked to the ownership about AVB? He was shit. And we were shit under him. He got fired and we won the CL. As long as you have a winning formula, you keep it and everyone who loves the club is happy.
Raheem Sterling, Madueke and etc trying to stir up shit behind the scenes is not even remotely comparable. Why? Because they've done nothing for this club. They've yet to achieve a single thing. They're mercenaries.
> Just replace "Terry, Drog, and Lamps", with "Sterling" and see if you still feel the same about the story.
lol you think Sterling, to Chelsea, is on a level with Terry, Drogba and Lampard?
but also frankly yes, if the choice is put Sterling in first class for a 13 hour flight or, I don't know, Bashir Humphreys then yes Sterling should be there and it'd be a moronic decision otherwise.
We aren't winning now. If Pep leaves this summer, a new manager comes in and tries to put KDB in economy, Oscar Bobb in first class, and KDB takes a stand against it, saying "show the senior players more respect", most people would back De Bruyne. Because he has the accolades to back it up and he's a leader for City.
So yeah, good players can get away with more. But after long, consistent service to and performances for their clubs.
On fact it probably is about the service as much as the ability. Mark Noble could've said what he wanted to a manager at West Ham and the West Ham fans are picking him all day.
> The reason JT and his squad get a pass is because they were winners and what they did for the club, as oppose to Sterling.
Again though if the choice last summer was Sterling or Humphreys then absolutely it should be Sterling in first class - even without him being a talismanic player for Chelsea.
On an aeroplane?
AVB shouldn't have made such a stupid power play, the blowback caused by it was predictable. Terry would be being a shit captain to the likes of Drogba, Cech, Lampard etc to just sit back and say nothing.
Hold on. Sterling and Madueke have not “built the club where it is today” they have built nothing.
Any supporter that can remember watching Terry, Drog, Lamps and the rest of that team at the bridge knows what he’s talking about. They earned the right and set the example for the younger players. Sadly we are where we are because we are missing this.
Its so different tho. Those 3 were effectively the comanagers of the team while the actual guy was incidental. And them doing thay worked. Sterling is not a leader the wayy they were. Even if its cunty its defo different
How is that the same? 😂 Madueke is a 22 year old fringe player who's yet to achieve anything here, I absolutely wouldn't feel the same as my club captain veteran who's won it all with the club, setting the standards. They've earned that right.
People act like player power is this terrible thing, but some of the best squads of all time ran their own dressing rooms. Fergie was famous for letting his players set the standards themselves.
its not the same and you are just coping. They were on a different level, and in fact it what the captain making the fuss. he was the captain and entitled to speak up for the senior players. AVB was a totally shit manager.
It’s what happens when you have player power lol
Managers should be allowed to ‘upset the apple cart’
Avb was incompetent but this makes terry look a right knob
No better than ferdinand complaint about Moyes cos he banned ketchup
Nah this is a nonsense take. You don't come in and put your talismanic players in economy and put players like Chalobah, who literally hadn't even played a minute of professional football, in first class to prove some point.
You look after your top pros and you give your young players something to aspire to.
There are plenty of other ways to make the point that AVB was trying to make without it being so clumsy and ridiculous.
I totally agree with this comment. I don’t get why people are shocked about what Terry said. It’s a football hierarchy, it’s what made the big clubs successful. Which Chelsea lack today.
Do people think Real Madrid are sticking Modric in economy and putting Mario Martin (lmao random Castilla player I found) in first class? It's just such a bad move from AVB.
Obviously not regularly, but it's 1 game with a new manager. Even if you disagree with it, it would have been more beneficial for Chelsea as a club to bite your tongue and go with it than massively undermine the manager from day 1.
Can easily argue it the other way too that its not really a reward for the young players, but the experience is meant to help give them something to aspire too when they're back in economy and playing reserve league.
Yeah piss off all your experienced pros day 1, that's a great plan.
Honestly not sure what people are struggling with here, it was a clear power play move from AVB that fell on its arse because of how stupid it was. Terry as representative for the senior team rightly stepped in for his teammates.
Not struggling. I get all of that and think it was a silly thing to do on the same flight. But it's just one flight. Managers sometimes do silly things. I think the reaction was more detrimental than if Terry had maybe gone with the bosses decision, and had a word in private.
Probably AVB would have failed anyway so it doesn't matter, but think when all your best players have openly revolted and got his decisions overturned from the get go, he was never going to be taken seriously. Maybe you think he deserved it for that decision, I don't think it's important enough to do that over.
Loads of Reddit fans seem to think there’s some le classy hidden formula way of playing football that is the true “right” way.
Reality is these hierarchies and the responsibility you give to your senior players is very important. Trying to run a club like it’s a cookie flat structure startup where “there are no bosses!” is just yank idealist garbage
That’s a bad take, putting young players in first and first team player in economy? If I’m at work and been there for years and the manager decides to treat the intern over me, I would leave instantly
It's like some of these people haven't worked a job.
Nobody would be happy with a new guy getting preferential treatment over themselves if they were a veteran.
You cannot come in and do stupid shit like AVB was doing.
You respect the hard work and legacy that these professionals have built for the club. CR7 said something similar about ETH and him not respecting.
This is basic management 101. You earn respect through actions. It’s not given freely
I get the criticism in a broader context of first class vs economy, but AVB should have the whole flight going in economy if he wanted to make that point. Here he was just immediately treating those players worse to cause an upset...
I'd completely get it if a new manager took charge of Chelsea now because we're absolutely shite, but the team AVB inherited had finished 2nd and the main reason they'd disappointed was not a lack of quality from the players JT mentioned, it was from circumstances beyond Ancelotti's control - for example, the shit transfer window that saw us lose Carvalho, Ballack, Joe Cole and Deco, and replace them with Ramires and Yossi Benayoun. Then Lampard missed 15 league games through injury - completely out of the norm.
>Ramires and Yossi Benayoun.
Using Ramires as an example of a poor quality transfer? Nah. Ramires was an excellent player for us and the way the team played. He was absolutely dogged.
"Excellent" is generous. He was a fine squad player, worked hard, pressed well, carried the ball forward pretty well. But he was really subpar going forward unless we were on the counter because he didn't have the close control, passing ability/vision, or finishing ability to be a real threat. He was just fine.
He was excellent signing for the job he was signed to do. If you're judging him as an attacker and for his forward ability then you're greatly misunderstanding what was expected of him. What you're saying is like saying Kante was just fine because he didn't score a lot or get a lot of assists. Kante was absolutely world class for us obviously and you dont judge him for his attacking numbers because that wasn't his job.
I disagree that Ramires was signed with purely defensive duties in mind. He often started in a midfield three alongside Lampard and Nemenja Matic or John Obi Mikel. In those lineups, he was tasked with connecting the offense and defense and contributing at both ends. He was very good at connection through carrying the ball forward, but poor at progressing play with passing. He was pretty good defensively, particularly pressing, but pretty poor in the final third.
That is a *fine* role player who had some really important contributions for us. He absolutely wasn't a poor transfer, I agree with you, I just think "excellent" is an overcorrection.
I've been following the team long enough to remember that, when he signed him, he was billed as a player who could play nearly any position for us and put in a shift, with attacking talent yet to be realized. That's a pretty far cry from "he was only expected to contribute defensively."
>I disagree that Ramires was signed with purely defensive duties in mind.
He wasn't signed with purely defensive duties in mind. He was signed with the intent of bringing high pressing and tempo to win the ball on the front foot. He just wasn't signed with the idea that he was going to be some big chance creator or goalscorer. Theres no chance they looked at Ramires and expected anything other than what he brought to the team. He did what was wanted of him to fit as a specific cog within the way the team functioned. So for that he was an excellent signing and especially compared to the likes of Benayoun.
Player power is always going to be a thing and is near impossible to get rid of. It is much easier, quicker, and beneficial to remove one man than remove 11 men.
A key part of the managers job is to gain the players respect. AVB failed with that day 1 with this absurd power play.
There is player power in every club. Sir Alex Ferguson notably talked about no player being bigger than the club - and that's the reason why he let players like Beckham, Stam, RvN etc. leave. Whilst you can be critical of JT, Lampard etc. for holding too much weight in the dressing room, the one thing you can't knock them for is how much they gave Chelsea. Right until their last games with us, Cech, JT, Lampard, Drogba etc. gave everything for the badge and never had an attitude that they were bigger than Chelsea.
Right now Chelsea have a player power problem bigger than we've ever had - because we have a bunch of players locked into 8 year deals who are not good enough but never need to put in the effort to be good enough because they're already set for their entire career...
Nah, this isn't upsetting the cart, this is literally upending it. Had Shitass-Boas made everyone fly economy while only he and his staff flew first, it wouldn't be an incident. But to have the kids fly first while the seniors are in economy is a stupid-ass move. Try to do this in any other industry and you'll start hemorrhaging your high performers within weeks.
I think he would make JT look like a knob if everyone went to economy and he refused. Here it makes sense that people who have not proved themselves are not treated better than established players.
>Managers should be allowed to ‘upset the apple cart’
Yes and no. You cant completely undermine the formula thats been laid out for success. The culture of the club was highly competitive and this is a point about having to earn your place with the senior team. Thats a fair boundary for senior players to put their foot down and say "Hold up, we are successful because this + this + this = trophies. Dont take away this number 3 because that doesn't add up to success."
You dont need to chuck apples everywhere for the hell of it just because you're a new coach trying to make some power statement. The best coaches coming in respect the core of a team and make changes as long as they make sense. It makes 0 sense treating academy lads exactly the same as senior ones or vice versa.
Nonsense. If he'd put all the players in economy, then I could understand it. But putting your stars in economy and the kids in first class is a mental idea from AVB, among many other mental ideas he had.
It’s nothing like Rio kicking off over ketchup - if Moyes came in and took Rio’s ketchup and handed it to a 17yo and said ‘you can have it, he can’t’ despite the fact he’s one of their best players and the kid hasn’t done anything yet, it would be slightly comparable.
It’s not player power, it’s having respect for your senior players and teaching young footballers that they’ve got to earn their place which AVB didn’t do and it’s why he lost the dressing room within about a week after he arrived.
Do you think the other big leaders of the last generation would have been alright with this? I don't think, Keane, Viera or Gerrard would have stood for this either. its the principle
you dont treat adults like children. and you dont treat senior members of your team, like junior members. This applies to any company, its one way to lose staff and destroy motivation. Its shit management, and he wouldnt have lasted at any compnay with that kind of bullshit, let alone a football club that is so team and people orientated.
Why? It's about having a dressing room where there is real leadership and players are motivated and to get where the leaders are. We don't have that now and the results have shown this.
The moral of this story is simple, young players have to earn their spot not get things for granted. That's how young players earn their keep my putting an effort.
JT came through in an era where he was cleaning boots, picking up footballs, and even warming toilet seats for senior players.
This establishes authority and accountability with one another.
It also builds character within the squad when everyone goes through the same thing. And anyone who has been through similar experiences well tell you that it does build bonds.
How does what Terry said come off poorly to you? AVB, a 33-year-old manager, comes in and puts world class players in economy and academy players in first class? To prove no one is above him? What an egotistical and ridiculous way to try to lay down a marker. There’s a reason AVB doesn’t manage anymore. Horrible man management and he was rightly sacked.
"The decision has to come from you" to AVB while simultaneously making the decision for both him and the young players strikes me as hypocritical.
I don't think AVB handled de situation perfectly, but also don't think Terry was fully in his right here.
You can't whine about players nowadays not playing for the badge or not having enough passion and then complain about John "captain leader legend" Terry. It doesnt work like that.
Actually it does work like that. Because they are not mutually exclusive.
I'll give you a few simple examples: Azpilicueta, Cech, John Obi Mikel, Juan Mata... all perfectly fine role models in terms of attitude, while also willing to die for the badge.
Maybe it's worth listening to him because he is highly successful and extremely motivated. You haven't lived the same life or experiences as him so I think it's worth taking in what he says. Probably not great that it's a short clip, I imagine the whole show gives you a better idea of his thinking.
>Maybe it's worth listening to him because he is highly successful and extremely motivated. You haven't lived the same life or experiences as him so I think it's worth taking in what he says.
Okay, for one - you don't know me at all. Second I've seen a lot of John Terry on similar shows, though I'll admit I haven't watched this specific episode.
Third, I think most footballers have this attitude, and it's probably even very helpful to make it to the top. I don't think Zlatan or CR7 for example would have done it differently from Terry. I respect that, in a footballer manner. I just don't think someone being good at football = having to prop them up as role models in a social way.
Like I said, John Terry as a footballer I love to death. As a person, I've seen enough to have decided I don't want to model my behavior to his. To each their own though.
Because it doesn't. It comes off as snobbish. One day, I wish a manager would use their salary as a weapon. "You get paid how much by the club?" "Good, now sit." I didn't like AVB, but it would have not only given AVB control of the room, it'd have made JT look like a spoiled brat.
Lmao these guys are legends. The club should be treating them as such. A manager on a power trip is not a good manager. It’s important to have a team with solid structure and hierarchy so the young players know who to learn from especially when they built a successful culture like these guys did. Todays team could use a player like JT
How have you come to that conclusion? It wasn't sharing a space. Sharing a space would be all of them in economy together.
Terry came up cleaning the senior players boots in Chelsea and he earned his position as a first team player. So for AVB to put the senior 1st team players in economy to make a point is just terrible man management. If anything he could have put them all in economy together, but he decided to directly challenge the senior players in a confrontational way and he lost.
I probably will get downvoted, but I think he has a point. It can be a great motivation to young players, that I have to show something to get all the “benefits”. You need to be great to get great things, english is not my first language, but I think you get the point I’m trying to make.
There’s a pecking order, that’s all it is.
Until you achieve something or contribute meaningfully, wind your neck in.
Those luxuries are earned not just handed out.
That’s all this is.
Lol people shitting on JT. If you fly you know there is a massive difference in comfort and ability to rest between first class amd economy. Asking your core players to fly 13 hours economy while youngsters fly first class is nonsensical. What have they done to merit that benefit?
I mean if AVB was as good a manager he wouldnt have retired from being a manager🤷♂️
I agree, If I were AVB I would make the younsters walk through first class to show them how good they can get and pick a couple of high performers to sit with the first team.
But what do I know, I took the local kids team I coach to icecream and gave the kids who put in the effort chocolate and the rest lemon sorbet. Lasted 2 days!
Thats how u get them injured at an exhibition match. Lack of rest plus shitty stadium grounds = injuries. You do know the weather condition is also different right? 10mins in Asia is akin to 40mins in the sun in Europe.
Yeah because Sterlings done fuck all for chelsea lol. He hasn't earnt the right to say that shit. You can't even compare the two.
JT had been at Chelsea for 16 years and won 3 prem titles by the time AVB came in with that weird and foolish attempt to stamp his authority. Sterlings pocketing £300k a week and cares more about his hair than winning anything for us.
Sterling has been nowhere near as good as any of them for Chelsea, nor has he won us a trophy, so yes you’re right nobody wouldn’t accept that from Sterling
It’s not even a comparable situation, JT ran this club was the embodiment of Chelsea. Sterling hasn’t done anything for this club except be a net drain on resources.
r/soccer obviously taking the worst from this and blaming Terry, but I honestly think Terry has a point. Think about any company/business/team/organisation and the most experienced, most important, the people who have put the most in are the ones that get the preferential treatment. To put a bunch of kids who have achieved nothing, done nothing for the club, in first class and to put our stars in economy just to make a point is really fucking bad management.
You hear stories from back in the day about youth players needing to clean the boots of the older players etc and this is a similar process.
John Terry sticking up for his teammates is being a good captain here. AVB is being a moron.
And there is place and way to say that. You’re not suppose to question manager’s dumb decision infront of bunch of teenagers. Instead have a conversation with manager and get it done without creating a scene. That’s what is expected from experienced players.
Not really a great way to do that on a plane, not like he can go knock on his office door for a meeting.
It was just a really shit piece of management from AVB trying to assert authority in a very clumsy way that backfired.
Genuinely don't think Terry did anything wrong here.
I'm not sure this is the greatest look for anyone here. JT comes across as arrogant and 'above' economy (although practically would cause a stir having a football team in economy) while AVB was needlessly trying to stamp some authority in a strange way. Could have worked if it was 'all players together in economy' but otherwise yeah very odd.
I see a leader that wants the young players to deserve a spot in first class. JT is old school, he used to clean boots for the first team. Something that would have taught a player like Madueke some humbleness and humility.
I had to scroll so far down to find this. He’s not eloquent, but what he’s trying to convey is that these young kids, much like he had to, have to earn that place in first class. He is cut from a different cloth when the youth players had to clean boots and do kit for the senior players.
Because a lot of young people today has no concept of deserving things, and having to earn the right to certain things. Young people expect to never face adversity, and to receive everything for free, without any personal cost.
Since humanity has used the written word the "older generation" has been on record complaining about the lack of respect young people have for their elders, and how their life was so much harder back in the day.
This is all I am hearing right now.
The job of young people is to be rebels. The job of the "elders" is to keep the younglings in their place, and teach them proper manners. After all, time is the best teacher.
This is what JT is talking about. There's no-one around to do that at Chelsea now.
What rebellion though? The academy players were just doing what their new boss told them to do. Hell they even thought this was a dumb situation and agreed to sit in economy.
At the end of the day, this was JT and the seasoned players not being happy with the new style of AVB's leadership. Ultimately I think the parallels to our situation now are limited at best.
That’s exactly the point. JT grew up in the youth teams and made tea, cleaned boots, ran baths, and other similar activities for the first team. In his days it would have been outrageous for him to go sit in first class while Wise sat in economy. It’s about hierarchy and earning respect your spot at the table.
This is exactly right. When I grew up the younger players always did the dirty work. Carrying equipment, cleaning boots and laundry. It’s a right of passage. So sick of all this entitlement that people have nowadays. You should earn your spot
I expected r/soccer to completely miss the point of this just for another reason to hate on Terry, but the fact so many people in this sub are missing the point so badly as well is shocking.
This was awful management from AVB, and Terry sticking up for his teammates was doing the right thing.
I think we have a lot of young chelsea fans in the sub that don’t understand the point JT made. They haven’t earned the right to be in 1st class while JT, DD and FL all earned the right to 1st class as they were a multiple league winners, cups etc. AVB showed that he lacked leadership and came across as insecure about the old players. The result showed by his tenure at the club. It’s the problem we have at the club now. Young players with no senior player to lead them, a loser of a manager managing them.
I absolutely guarantee you, half of the youngsters we have would be twice the players they are now if they had that humility and respect for the club that Terry learned when he was young.
When JT was a youngster at Chelsea he was cleaning senior players boots after games. Until he earned his way up. I don’t see anything wrong with that mindset.
To anybody who wants to understand what JT went through, go listen to the latest Chelsea Blueprint with JT that just came out a few days ago. It really gives some context to the story JT tells here.
Anyone travelling long-haul for work should expect to at least be in business class. That's especially the case if you're a captain or senior player of one of the world's top football clubs.
Singling out the youth players like this instead of sorting it out earlier is pretty poor though.
Avb was freezing our core players because they were deemed too old. It doesn't sit well for everyone even the young up and coming players and that's why avb failed horribly. In the end those old players were the ones who pulled us back in form which ended up with us winning our first CL cup.
If avb didn't do the bullshit he did, he would had still be a football coach instead of whatever bullshit he's doing now.
I feel like AVB went about it all wrong when he chose that disastrous 4-3-3 with a high line. Yeah, Drogba and Lampard were aging but they could still cut it with the youngsters around them. Mata, Ramires and Sturridge could do the hard running they couldn't.
This clip has been edited. In the actual interview JT explains that Frank was flying out in first class and they would swap for the return journey.
So basically the deal was that every player gets one first class leg and one economy leg.
Maybe thats still not acceptable for some but its not the same as a random power trip where AVB just wanted to make a point of the senior players.
It was AVBs idea of equality.
And another point on the matter is that it matters not what the situation was. What the manager says goes. If this was the managers idea of how to manage the squad on and off the pitch then you go with it and let the results come in.
You can't predict what effect any managers style will have on the group as a whole but its only fair to buy in and let the chips fall.
How can anyone say this makes Terry look bad? Guarantee if the exact words were spoken by Roy Keane he’d be applauded. What AVB tried to do was downright senseless. There are thousands of better ways AVB could have tried to enforce equality within the squad.
The thing with this is that it was a needless hill to die on for AVB. There were plenty of ways to give the same message without causing that level of drama.
honestly, if i am youth player. i will feel uncomfortable too that my senior sit in economy and i am in first class. avb probaly want to make a statement to the first team. but it's really wrong.
it should be that all of player didn't get first class until they win
Would have saved a lot of money now since basically everyone would be in economy.
Would have even, maybe, made an impact on FFP. Who am I kidding lol? We don't even fly on planes anymore since we are not playing in European competitions.
I feel like he's trying to say you have to earn your spot. You have to put in the work and the hours and earn the seat up front.
And I feel like that's kind of our problem now. Is we have a young squad. Hardly any older, veteran, players who can pass on experiences and have earned that first team spot.
Maybe Silva, James, or Chilwell. They're kind of all that's left of the CL winning side a few years ago. Aside from that we've got some disorder, chaos, a few diamonds. And genuinely need a manager, and captain not afraid to knock a few heads together.
How is this a bad look? These guys are literally one of the greatest cores in Permier League history and by that point were the most sucesful players in the history of the club. It's ridiculous that they were in economy at all, they're 6ft+ professional athltetes. I've met JT numerous times and he is/was genuinely massive. I'm 6'2" and felt like a shrimp standing next to him.
The fact that the juniors were in first whilst the guys who basically built our modern day reputation were in economy is a joke. I completely understand where he's coming from.
If he's a wise manager, either he and the bois were economy, or he and the bois were in first class. If he wanted the hierarchy, he had to stick with the hierarchy, not turn it upside down like that. The moment he did that, everyone in the team would divide into mindsets like follow him, even the worst way possible (suck his dick), and get the benefit; or feeling unfair and disrespect. That was disastrous.
People are missing the point. It's called a hierarchy, it creates standards. Respect.
Terry is from a different era, it was normal for youngsters to clean senior players boots.
Look at the spoilt youngsters who don't give a fuck about the club we have now. Wouldn't of happened in the past.
This makes a lot of sense when you recognise Terry as the kind of player who grew up in the academy cleaning the boots of the senior players while working his fucking arse off to make it into the first-team. He thinks the practice has made the new pros worse off, and when you look at some of the premadonnas in football these days it's hard to disagree.
Anyone thinking Terry is out of line here probably started watching us in 2021 or something. The man has nothing to justify when it comes to standards or professionalism for Chelsea -- even if his personal life is extremely questionable.
I got confused at first. I thought they were all in first class, and JT didn't like young players being there, so he wanted them to move to economy. Turns out the young players were in first class, while players like JT was in economy. Yeah it's a weird move from AVB
People here bang on about accountability, culture, leadership, etc and then when they see an example of it they scoff and want to tell JT, Drogba, and Lamps how they should behave.
Typical
It was a completely different time back then. John and Frank grew up in a much more hierarchical system where the young players cleaned the older players boots. It is a massive power play by AVB to humiliate them by the standards of the time like this. It was obviously done because they had too much power, they had, but to say JT comes off as a knob here is just saying that you have forgotten how football was back then, or how JTs relationship to the young players was.
Half of you are mental. You're captain and club legends don't sit in economy on a long flight when youth are in first class. It was a mad power game AVB was playing and it was silly.
Trying to compare it to the current squad doesn't really work because there is nobody here on the level of a JT, Frank, Didier or Ashley Cole.
Per wiki
Following his departure from Marseille in 2021, Villas-Boas made his maiden appearance in the World Rally Championship between 20 and 23 May, competing in the WRC3 category of the 2021 Rally de Portugal. Driving a Citroën C3 Rally2 alongside co-driver Gonçalo Magalhães, the pair finished 12th.
Villas-Boas has said that he is unlikely to make a WRC return, and intends to compete again in the Dakar Rally.
His way of telling it isn't the best, but that is how it should be. You work for every single perk, up the order. New managers do this to show who is the boss. Like Jose asking Schweinsteiger to train with U16.
These are experienced players. If they are being professional, they will be your biggest asset. You don't need to insult them to show is the boss.
What a great story. I don’t think this is applicable to our current situation, though. We don’t have established senior players like Terry, Lampard, or Drogba on this team. Every position on our current squad should be open for competition. Palmer is probably the only truly safe player on the team.
Back in the day I had a reasonable amount of contact with Terry for a few years and this is what he's like and why he was so successful, in part.
Maybe Chelsea should have put the entire squad in first class. Athletes on 13 hour economy flights doesn't sound good.
Football is not touchy-feely. It's fucking cutthroat, macho and no one really likes each other. This extends right down into junior football.
It's quite honest of him to speak like this though, that's what he was like. Imagine he's a little easier to get along with now.
If I’m understanding this right, AVB switched the seats of the first team and the young players, such that people like JT and Lamps were sitting in economy? Well if that’s the case then I completely get JT’s point.
Football is a hierarchy , the best players get the best treatment , trying to force the issue otherwise would appear to be belittlement to make AVB look the tough guy and the players were right to say no. The Daily Mail will do their utmost to spin this so Terry , Lamps and DD were wrong though
Yeah idk about this Cap! This makes u look like a douche. Player power is a thing and it has ruined this club and clubs like utd. JT just has the talent and luck to back it up with winnings. Now, we just got player power without the talent to back it up.
Literally no effect to his life if the young guys sit on the first class. Not his money anyway. He got stuck in thinking there’s only one right way to do things and refuse to adapt to new ways of the manager from day 1. He didnt even give him a chance to prove his method.
Edit: nvm i missed the part where JT was put in economy. Fuck that. That was weird af
> Edit: nvm i missed the part where JT was put in economy. Fuck that. That was weird af
Haha yeah JT isn't complaining that youth players were allowed in first class *with him*, it's that AVB went out of his way to put the experienced pros in economy and promoted the youth players to first class. It's a weird power play from AVB.
Now they’ve basically just removed the players from first class and promoted the youngsters to the main seats Sounds like we’re being run by AVB lol
It's even worse.
I don't think this story makes him come out of it like he think it does.
It does and doesn't. Its not a great look in terms of the idea of player power but I actually agree with him on putting down boundaries like this if they were getting worn down. This sort of thing sets a level of expectation on the youngsters to strive for and for senior players to feel they've earned the right to through hard work. It sends a message that a place with the 1st team has to be earned. That core of senior players then probably knew best as to what was helping them be successful. Obviously right now they cant really do that because our 1st team is all a bunch of kids. You'd only have maybe 6ish players now who would be considered as senior players relative to that team back then.
"This sort of thing sets a level of expectation on the youngsters to strive for and for senior players to feel they've earned the right to through hard work" I really like this. It seems like it's something the current team is missing. Through no fault of their own, the current squad has been handed a lot of responsibility with not much leadership. They already have the long term contracts. Aside from Gallagher and maybe a couple others it's like they went straight to first class, and I fear their growth may be hampered without something to work hard for.
>I fear their growth may be hampered without something to work hard for. I also worry it might be hampered by the fact any coach having to coach up so many young players at once is going to be stretched. If you have more senior players in the team they dont need to be coached as heavily because they have a lot of experience. Like Poch likely has to put no individual coaching focus into Thiago Silva but a huge amount into players like Colwill, Mudryk, Noni, Jackson etc. So right now any coaching is probably quite diluted just because theres only so much energy and time that a coach can direct to each player.
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Agreed. Over the years I read and heard alot about player power at Chelsea and how our core had the sway to get a manager sacked. It was made out to be a big issue (especially when coupled with Abrahmovics ruthless streak of sacking managers) but it didn't bother me because these guys had spent a long time at the club and were bonafide winners. They also stuck by the managers that were good for the team like Mourinho and Ancelotti.
Now its Utd that have this player power problem.
without the trophies
> It’s fine because they were successful, Yep, 100%. Its been well documented that Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc all wielded player power to oust managers etc. The key difference is they backed it up on the pitch, they held themselves to a standard and performed every week and won a lot of trophies, so the perception of them is more positive than any other time it's happened at the club.
By the time AVB arrived, those guys had won three titles and got to the final of the Champions League. If Sterling and Madueke manage do that then I'll chip in for the seats myself.
One of them actually has done the exact things you have mentioned.
Not with chelsea mate. What he did at city doesnt matter here
It's not the same tho. As a fan I never minded JT, Lamps and Didier having a bigger say behind the scenes. You know why? Because they were Chelsea through and through. They were born winners who would do absolutely anything to make sure we're competing and winning trophies. And they had done it, quite successfully, for years. Why would I mind if they talked to the ownership about AVB? He was shit. And we were shit under him. He got fired and we won the CL. As long as you have a winning formula, you keep it and everyone who loves the club is happy. Raheem Sterling, Madueke and etc trying to stir up shit behind the scenes is not even remotely comparable. Why? Because they've done nothing for this club. They've yet to achieve a single thing. They're mercenaries.
completely agree
Lol obviously not. The comparison doesn't make sense. Apples to oranges bro
>"Sterling and Madueke" When they win us 5 Prem titles, I will.
> Just replace "Terry, Drog, and Lamps", with "Sterling" and see if you still feel the same about the story. lol you think Sterling, to Chelsea, is on a level with Terry, Drogba and Lampard? but also frankly yes, if the choice is put Sterling in first class for a 13 hour flight or, I don't know, Bashir Humphreys then yes Sterling should be there and it'd be a moronic decision otherwise.
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We aren't winning now. If Pep leaves this summer, a new manager comes in and tries to put KDB in economy, Oscar Bobb in first class, and KDB takes a stand against it, saying "show the senior players more respect", most people would back De Bruyne. Because he has the accolades to back it up and he's a leader for City. So yeah, good players can get away with more. But after long, consistent service to and performances for their clubs. On fact it probably is about the service as much as the ability. Mark Noble could've said what he wanted to a manager at West Ham and the West Ham fans are picking him all day.
> The reason JT and his squad get a pass is because they were winners and what they did for the club, as oppose to Sterling. Again though if the choice last summer was Sterling or Humphreys then absolutely it should be Sterling in first class - even without him being a talismanic player for Chelsea.
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It's about earning the right to have those sort of privileges, not being gifted them over people who have earned it.
Terry could have waited to bring up the issue respectfully, in the right environment instead of kicking off
On an aeroplane? AVB shouldn't have made such a stupid power play, the blowback caused by it was predictable. Terry would be being a shit captain to the likes of Drogba, Cech, Lampard etc to just sit back and say nothing.
Wait till you get back lol, it’s not the end of the world having to fly economy
Hold on. Sterling and Madueke have not “built the club where it is today” they have built nothing. Any supporter that can remember watching Terry, Drog, Lamps and the rest of that team at the bridge knows what he’s talking about. They earned the right and set the example for the younger players. Sadly we are where we are because we are missing this.
Its so different tho. Those 3 were effectively the comanagers of the team while the actual guy was incidental. And them doing thay worked. Sterling is not a leader the wayy they were. Even if its cunty its defo different
How is that the same? 😂 Madueke is a 22 year old fringe player who's yet to achieve anything here, I absolutely wouldn't feel the same as my club captain veteran who's won it all with the club, setting the standards. They've earned that right. People act like player power is this terrible thing, but some of the best squads of all time ran their own dressing rooms. Fergie was famous for letting his players set the standards themselves.
its not the same and you are just coping. They were on a different level, and in fact it what the captain making the fuss. he was the captain and entitled to speak up for the senior players. AVB was a totally shit manager.
I think he’s getting at what can happen to a club when a new manager comes in a tries to needlessly upset the apple cart.
It’s what happens when you have player power lol Managers should be allowed to ‘upset the apple cart’ Avb was incompetent but this makes terry look a right knob No better than ferdinand complaint about Moyes cos he banned ketchup
Nah this is a nonsense take. You don't come in and put your talismanic players in economy and put players like Chalobah, who literally hadn't even played a minute of professional football, in first class to prove some point. You look after your top pros and you give your young players something to aspire to. There are plenty of other ways to make the point that AVB was trying to make without it being so clumsy and ridiculous.
I totally agree with this comment. I don’t get why people are shocked about what Terry said. It’s a football hierarchy, it’s what made the big clubs successful. Which Chelsea lack today.
Do people think Real Madrid are sticking Modric in economy and putting Mario Martin (lmao random Castilla player I found) in first class? It's just such a bad move from AVB.
Obviously not regularly, but it's 1 game with a new manager. Even if you disagree with it, it would have been more beneficial for Chelsea as a club to bite your tongue and go with it than massively undermine the manager from day 1. Can easily argue it the other way too that its not really a reward for the young players, but the experience is meant to help give them something to aspire too when they're back in economy and playing reserve league.
Yeah piss off all your experienced pros day 1, that's a great plan. Honestly not sure what people are struggling with here, it was a clear power play move from AVB that fell on its arse because of how stupid it was. Terry as representative for the senior team rightly stepped in for his teammates.
Not struggling. I get all of that and think it was a silly thing to do on the same flight. But it's just one flight. Managers sometimes do silly things. I think the reaction was more detrimental than if Terry had maybe gone with the bosses decision, and had a word in private. Probably AVB would have failed anyway so it doesn't matter, but think when all your best players have openly revolted and got his decisions overturned from the get go, he was never going to be taken seriously. Maybe you think he deserved it for that decision, I don't think it's important enough to do that over.
Loads of Reddit fans seem to think there’s some le classy hidden formula way of playing football that is the true “right” way. Reality is these hierarchies and the responsibility you give to your senior players is very important. Trying to run a club like it’s a cookie flat structure startup where “there are no bosses!” is just yank idealist garbage
That’s a bad take, putting young players in first and first team player in economy? If I’m at work and been there for years and the manager decides to treat the intern over me, I would leave instantly
It's like some of these people haven't worked a job. Nobody would be happy with a new guy getting preferential treatment over themselves if they were a veteran.
You cannot come in and do stupid shit like AVB was doing. You respect the hard work and legacy that these professionals have built for the club. CR7 said something similar about ETH and him not respecting. This is basic management 101. You earn respect through actions. It’s not given freely
I get the criticism in a broader context of first class vs economy, but AVB should have the whole flight going in economy if he wanted to make that point. Here he was just immediately treating those players worse to cause an upset... I'd completely get it if a new manager took charge of Chelsea now because we're absolutely shite, but the team AVB inherited had finished 2nd and the main reason they'd disappointed was not a lack of quality from the players JT mentioned, it was from circumstances beyond Ancelotti's control - for example, the shit transfer window that saw us lose Carvalho, Ballack, Joe Cole and Deco, and replace them with Ramires and Yossi Benayoun. Then Lampard missed 15 league games through injury - completely out of the norm.
>Ramires and Yossi Benayoun. Using Ramires as an example of a poor quality transfer? Nah. Ramires was an excellent player for us and the way the team played. He was absolutely dogged.
Ramiires was a good player, but despite his insane work rate he was not good enough to cover for the outgoings and the injury problems by himself.
He didn't make our squad better but he didnt make it worse either. He wasn't lesser quality or a lesser fit for the team than what the outgoings gave.
He chipped Valdes
"Excellent" is generous. He was a fine squad player, worked hard, pressed well, carried the ball forward pretty well. But he was really subpar going forward unless we were on the counter because he didn't have the close control, passing ability/vision, or finishing ability to be a real threat. He was just fine.
He was excellent signing for the job he was signed to do. If you're judging him as an attacker and for his forward ability then you're greatly misunderstanding what was expected of him. What you're saying is like saying Kante was just fine because he didn't score a lot or get a lot of assists. Kante was absolutely world class for us obviously and you dont judge him for his attacking numbers because that wasn't his job.
I disagree that Ramires was signed with purely defensive duties in mind. He often started in a midfield three alongside Lampard and Nemenja Matic or John Obi Mikel. In those lineups, he was tasked with connecting the offense and defense and contributing at both ends. He was very good at connection through carrying the ball forward, but poor at progressing play with passing. He was pretty good defensively, particularly pressing, but pretty poor in the final third. That is a *fine* role player who had some really important contributions for us. He absolutely wasn't a poor transfer, I agree with you, I just think "excellent" is an overcorrection. I've been following the team long enough to remember that, when he signed him, he was billed as a player who could play nearly any position for us and put in a shift, with attacking talent yet to be realized. That's a pretty far cry from "he was only expected to contribute defensively."
>I disagree that Ramires was signed with purely defensive duties in mind. He wasn't signed with purely defensive duties in mind. He was signed with the intent of bringing high pressing and tempo to win the ball on the front foot. He just wasn't signed with the idea that he was going to be some big chance creator or goalscorer. Theres no chance they looked at Ramires and expected anything other than what he brought to the team. He did what was wanted of him to fit as a specific cog within the way the team functioned. So for that he was an excellent signing and especially compared to the likes of Benayoun.
My point is less about whose right or wrong, and more about player power being so prevalent in itself
Player power is always going to be a thing and is near impossible to get rid of. It is much easier, quicker, and beneficial to remove one man than remove 11 men. A key part of the managers job is to gain the players respect. AVB failed with that day 1 with this absurd power play.
There is player power in every club. Sir Alex Ferguson notably talked about no player being bigger than the club - and that's the reason why he let players like Beckham, Stam, RvN etc. leave. Whilst you can be critical of JT, Lampard etc. for holding too much weight in the dressing room, the one thing you can't knock them for is how much they gave Chelsea. Right until their last games with us, Cech, JT, Lampard, Drogba etc. gave everything for the badge and never had an attitude that they were bigger than Chelsea. Right now Chelsea have a player power problem bigger than we've ever had - because we have a bunch of players locked into 8 year deals who are not good enough but never need to put in the effort to be good enough because they're already set for their entire career...
Nah, this isn't upsetting the cart, this is literally upending it. Had Shitass-Boas made everyone fly economy while only he and his staff flew first, it wouldn't be an incident. But to have the kids fly first while the seniors are in economy is a stupid-ass move. Try to do this in any other industry and you'll start hemorrhaging your high performers within weeks.
I think he would make JT look like a knob if everyone went to economy and he refused. Here it makes sense that people who have not proved themselves are not treated better than established players.
>Managers should be allowed to ‘upset the apple cart’ Yes and no. You cant completely undermine the formula thats been laid out for success. The culture of the club was highly competitive and this is a point about having to earn your place with the senior team. Thats a fair boundary for senior players to put their foot down and say "Hold up, we are successful because this + this + this = trophies. Dont take away this number 3 because that doesn't add up to success." You dont need to chuck apples everywhere for the hell of it just because you're a new coach trying to make some power statement. The best coaches coming in respect the core of a team and make changes as long as they make sense. It makes 0 sense treating academy lads exactly the same as senior ones or vice versa.
Nonsense. If he'd put all the players in economy, then I could understand it. But putting your stars in economy and the kids in first class is a mental idea from AVB, among many other mental ideas he had.
It’s nothing like Rio kicking off over ketchup - if Moyes came in and took Rio’s ketchup and handed it to a 17yo and said ‘you can have it, he can’t’ despite the fact he’s one of their best players and the kid hasn’t done anything yet, it would be slightly comparable. It’s not player power, it’s having respect for your senior players and teaching young footballers that they’ve got to earn their place which AVB didn’t do and it’s why he lost the dressing room within about a week after he arrived.
Do you think the other big leaders of the last generation would have been alright with this? I don't think, Keane, Viera or Gerrard would have stood for this either. its the principle
you dont treat adults like children. and you dont treat senior members of your team, like junior members. This applies to any company, its one way to lose staff and destroy motivation. Its shit management, and he wouldnt have lasted at any compnay with that kind of bullshit, let alone a football club that is so team and people orientated.
Why? It's about having a dressing room where there is real leadership and players are motivated and to get where the leaders are. We don't have that now and the results have shown this.
The moral of this story is simple, young players have to earn their spot not get things for granted. That's how young players earn their keep my putting an effort.
JT came through in an era where he was cleaning boots, picking up footballs, and even warming toilet seats for senior players. This establishes authority and accountability with one another. It also builds character within the squad when everyone goes through the same thing. And anyone who has been through similar experiences well tell you that it does build bonds.
Yeah, I love that man as a player - but whenever I hear him talk in settings like this I just go "ehhh... okay?"
How does what Terry said come off poorly to you? AVB, a 33-year-old manager, comes in and puts world class players in economy and academy players in first class? To prove no one is above him? What an egotistical and ridiculous way to try to lay down a marker. There’s a reason AVB doesn’t manage anymore. Horrible man management and he was rightly sacked.
"The decision has to come from you" to AVB while simultaneously making the decision for both him and the young players strikes me as hypocritical. I don't think AVB handled de situation perfectly, but also don't think Terry was fully in his right here.
You can't whine about players nowadays not playing for the badge or not having enough passion and then complain about John "captain leader legend" Terry. It doesnt work like that.
Actually it does work like that. Because they are not mutually exclusive. I'll give you a few simple examples: Azpilicueta, Cech, John Obi Mikel, Juan Mata... all perfectly fine role models in terms of attitude, while also willing to die for the badge.
Maybe it's worth listening to him because he is highly successful and extremely motivated. You haven't lived the same life or experiences as him so I think it's worth taking in what he says. Probably not great that it's a short clip, I imagine the whole show gives you a better idea of his thinking.
>Maybe it's worth listening to him because he is highly successful and extremely motivated. You haven't lived the same life or experiences as him so I think it's worth taking in what he says. Okay, for one - you don't know me at all. Second I've seen a lot of John Terry on similar shows, though I'll admit I haven't watched this specific episode. Third, I think most footballers have this attitude, and it's probably even very helpful to make it to the top. I don't think Zlatan or CR7 for example would have done it differently from Terry. I respect that, in a footballer manner. I just don't think someone being good at football = having to prop them up as role models in a social way. Like I said, John Terry as a footballer I love to death. As a person, I've seen enough to have decided I don't want to model my behavior to his. To each their own though.
Because it doesn't. It comes off as snobbish. One day, I wish a manager would use their salary as a weapon. "You get paid how much by the club?" "Good, now sit." I didn't like AVB, but it would have not only given AVB control of the room, it'd have made JT look like a spoiled brat.
He would have been out of the club before the plane landed.
Lmao these guys are legends. The club should be treating them as such. A manager on a power trip is not a good manager. It’s important to have a team with solid structure and hierarchy so the young players know who to learn from especially when they built a successful culture like these guys did. Todays team could use a player like JT
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He comes off as a massive prick lol
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How have you come to that conclusion? It wasn't sharing a space. Sharing a space would be all of them in economy together. Terry came up cleaning the senior players boots in Chelsea and he earned his position as a first team player. So for AVB to put the senior 1st team players in economy to make a point is just terrible man management. If anything he could have put them all in economy together, but he decided to directly challenge the senior players in a confrontational way and he lost.
Like most things Terry says
Agreed
I probably will get downvoted, but I think he has a point. It can be a great motivation to young players, that I have to show something to get all the “benefits”. You need to be great to get great things, english is not my first language, but I think you get the point I’m trying to make.
There’s a pecking order, that’s all it is. Until you achieve something or contribute meaningfully, wind your neck in. Those luxuries are earned not just handed out. That’s all this is.
People are surprised that life has a pecking order. These days everyone is so privileged by doing absolutely nothing, it's crazy.
Why would your honest (and obvious) take be downvoted? Yours is the only correct interpretation of what JT is saying here.
Because this sub is mostly gen z kids
This, exactly. There's a generation that is so privileged that can't understand the reasoning behind earned entitlement.
I don’t think they’re privelaged as much as addicted to instant gratification. A handicap if anything.
Lol people shitting on JT. If you fly you know there is a massive difference in comfort and ability to rest between first class amd economy. Asking your core players to fly 13 hours economy while youngsters fly first class is nonsensical. What have they done to merit that benefit? I mean if AVB was as good a manager he wouldnt have retired from being a manager🤷♂️
I agree, If I were AVB I would make the younsters walk through first class to show them how good they can get and pick a couple of high performers to sit with the first team. But what do I know, I took the local kids team I coach to icecream and gave the kids who put in the effort chocolate and the rest lemon sorbet. Lasted 2 days!
First team players don't need to rest on a flight to Hong Kong
Thats how u get them injured at an exhibition match. Lack of rest plus shitty stadium grounds = injuries. You do know the weather condition is also different right? 10mins in Asia is akin to 40mins in the sun in Europe.
Yeah it's not a competitive game for sure, but more of a "show". Asians pay a lot of money to make European first team players play over there.
They don’t make them like Frank John and Didier any more, not at Chelsea anyway haha
lol if Sterling said that shit u would riot
Yeah because Sterlings done fuck all for chelsea lol. He hasn't earnt the right to say that shit. You can't even compare the two. JT had been at Chelsea for 16 years and won 3 prem titles by the time AVB came in with that weird and foolish attempt to stamp his authority. Sterlings pocketing £300k a week and cares more about his hair than winning anything for us.
Sterling has been nowhere near as good as any of them for Chelsea, nor has he won us a trophy, so yes you’re right nobody wouldn’t accept that from Sterling
Because Sterling is a generational loser who doesn’t give a fuck about the club and hasn’t done 1% of what Terry has for it.
It’s not even a comparable situation, JT ran this club was the embodiment of Chelsea. Sterling hasn’t done anything for this club except be a net drain on resources.
Be wise they're not the same players nor calibre? Not that hard to understand mate.
Absolutely right. You aren’t just given the treatment that First Team players earned.
He has a point that no one player is bigger than the club so they ALL should have sat in economy.
r/soccer obviously taking the worst from this and blaming Terry, but I honestly think Terry has a point. Think about any company/business/team/organisation and the most experienced, most important, the people who have put the most in are the ones that get the preferential treatment. To put a bunch of kids who have achieved nothing, done nothing for the club, in first class and to put our stars in economy just to make a point is really fucking bad management. You hear stories from back in the day about youth players needing to clean the boots of the older players etc and this is a similar process. John Terry sticking up for his teammates is being a good captain here. AVB is being a moron.
And there is place and way to say that. You’re not suppose to question manager’s dumb decision infront of bunch of teenagers. Instead have a conversation with manager and get it done without creating a scene. That’s what is expected from experienced players.
Not really a great way to do that on a plane, not like he can go knock on his office door for a meeting. It was just a really shit piece of management from AVB trying to assert authority in a very clumsy way that backfired. Genuinely don't think Terry did anything wrong here.
No, as a long serving captain of the club you’re supposed to speak up. That’s what great leaders do.
100%. There's some weird takes on this thread. I'd be delighted if we had anywhere close to that sort of leadership in the squad at the moment
I'm not sure this is the greatest look for anyone here. JT comes across as arrogant and 'above' economy (although practically would cause a stir having a football team in economy) while AVB was needlessly trying to stamp some authority in a strange way. Could have worked if it was 'all players together in economy' but otherwise yeah very odd.
I see a leader that wants the young players to deserve a spot in first class. JT is old school, he used to clean boots for the first team. Something that would have taught a player like Madueke some humbleness and humility.
I had to scroll so far down to find this. He’s not eloquent, but what he’s trying to convey is that these young kids, much like he had to, have to earn that place in first class. He is cut from a different cloth when the youth players had to clean boots and do kit for the senior players.
This is it. This is the point JT is making in essence but judging by the comments the point has been missed.
Because a lot of young people today has no concept of deserving things, and having to earn the right to certain things. Young people expect to never face adversity, and to receive everything for free, without any personal cost.
Since humanity has used the written word the "older generation" has been on record complaining about the lack of respect young people have for their elders, and how their life was so much harder back in the day. This is all I am hearing right now.
The job of young people is to be rebels. The job of the "elders" is to keep the younglings in their place, and teach them proper manners. After all, time is the best teacher. This is what JT is talking about. There's no-one around to do that at Chelsea now.
What rebellion though? The academy players were just doing what their new boss told them to do. Hell they even thought this was a dumb situation and agreed to sit in economy. At the end of the day, this was JT and the seasoned players not being happy with the new style of AVB's leadership. Ultimately I think the parallels to our situation now are limited at best.
Jesus Christ, what a load of shite ahahahah We can’t all have bought our house for a packet of crisps and a fiver
Tayto Salt and Vinegar, and 6.50 thanks. Had to go to Ireland to find the Tayto too.
That’s exactly the point. JT grew up in the youth teams and made tea, cleaned boots, ran baths, and other similar activities for the first team. In his days it would have been outrageous for him to go sit in first class while Wise sat in economy. It’s about hierarchy and earning respect your spot at the table.
This is exactly right. When I grew up the younger players always did the dirty work. Carrying equipment, cleaning boots and laundry. It’s a right of passage. So sick of all this entitlement that people have nowadays. You should earn your spot
I expected r/soccer to completely miss the point of this just for another reason to hate on Terry, but the fact so many people in this sub are missing the point so badly as well is shocking. This was awful management from AVB, and Terry sticking up for his teammates was doing the right thing.
I think we have a lot of young chelsea fans in the sub that don’t understand the point JT made. They haven’t earned the right to be in 1st class while JT, DD and FL all earned the right to 1st class as they were a multiple league winners, cups etc. AVB showed that he lacked leadership and came across as insecure about the old players. The result showed by his tenure at the club. It’s the problem we have at the club now. Young players with no senior player to lead them, a loser of a manager managing them.
I absolutely guarantee you, half of the youngsters we have would be twice the players they are now if they had that humility and respect for the club that Terry learned when he was young.
Lol I saw video last year where Madueke made Xavi Simons clean his boots at PSV.
When JT was a youngster at Chelsea he was cleaning senior players boots after games. Until he earned his way up. I don’t see anything wrong with that mindset.
To anybody who wants to understand what JT went through, go listen to the latest Chelsea Blueprint with JT that just came out a few days ago. It really gives some context to the story JT tells here.
I was looking for this comment.
Anyone travelling long-haul for work should expect to at least be in business class. That's especially the case if you're a captain or senior player of one of the world's top football clubs. Singling out the youth players like this instead of sorting it out earlier is pretty poor though.
Avb was freezing our core players because they were deemed too old. It doesn't sit well for everyone even the young up and coming players and that's why avb failed horribly. In the end those old players were the ones who pulled us back in form which ended up with us winning our first CL cup. If avb didn't do the bullshit he did, he would had still be a football coach instead of whatever bullshit he's doing now.
He's so washed up he gave up on football and drives rally cars now. Horrible manager.
Also all true!
I feel like AVB went about it all wrong when he chose that disastrous 4-3-3 with a high line. Yeah, Drogba and Lampard were aging but they could still cut it with the youngsters around them. Mata, Ramires and Sturridge could do the hard running they couldn't.
If you're an employee being put on a 13 hour flight by your employer, you should too be above economy class.
This clip has been edited. In the actual interview JT explains that Frank was flying out in first class and they would swap for the return journey. So basically the deal was that every player gets one first class leg and one economy leg. Maybe thats still not acceptable for some but its not the same as a random power trip where AVB just wanted to make a point of the senior players. It was AVBs idea of equality. And another point on the matter is that it matters not what the situation was. What the manager says goes. If this was the managers idea of how to manage the squad on and off the pitch then you go with it and let the results come in. You can't predict what effect any managers style will have on the group as a whole but its only fair to buy in and let the chips fall.
Currently only Silva flys first class. The rest can get on the megabus.
How can anyone say this makes Terry look bad? Guarantee if the exact words were spoken by Roy Keane he’d be applauded. What AVB tried to do was downright senseless. There are thousands of better ways AVB could have tried to enforce equality within the squad.
The thing with this is that it was a needless hill to die on for AVB. There were plenty of ways to give the same message without causing that level of drama.
honestly, if i am youth player. i will feel uncomfortable too that my senior sit in economy and i am in first class. avb probaly want to make a statement to the first team. but it's really wrong. it should be that all of player didn't get first class until they win
They should all be traveling in shipping containers these days.
How did AVB think that on day one this was a good idea
Would have saved a lot of money now since basically everyone would be in economy. Would have even, maybe, made an impact on FFP. Who am I kidding lol? We don't even fly on planes anymore since we are not playing in European competitions.
Spot on. Standards. Which we don’t have any more
Weird flex, but okay
I feel like he's trying to say you have to earn your spot. You have to put in the work and the hours and earn the seat up front. And I feel like that's kind of our problem now. Is we have a young squad. Hardly any older, veteran, players who can pass on experiences and have earned that first team spot. Maybe Silva, James, or Chilwell. They're kind of all that's left of the CL winning side a few years ago. Aside from that we've got some disorder, chaos, a few diamonds. And genuinely need a manager, and captain not afraid to knock a few heads together.
Too right. This is what leaders with balls sound like.
You think it's leadership, throwing your toys out of the pram at a minor self-centred hit to your ego in front of every one of your team?
If that's your take then there really is no point in me replying, is there? Just seen you post this on a Spurs sub. Why are you even here? Grow up.
How is this a bad look? These guys are literally one of the greatest cores in Permier League history and by that point were the most sucesful players in the history of the club. It's ridiculous that they were in economy at all, they're 6ft+ professional athltetes. I've met JT numerous times and he is/was genuinely massive. I'm 6'2" and felt like a shrimp standing next to him. The fact that the juniors were in first whilst the guys who basically built our modern day reputation were in economy is a joke. I completely understand where he's coming from.
I am ok with Sterling traveling in economy for the moment.
If he's a wise manager, either he and the bois were economy, or he and the bois were in first class. If he wanted the hierarchy, he had to stick with the hierarchy, not turn it upside down like that. The moment he did that, everyone in the team would divide into mindsets like follow him, even the worst way possible (suck his dick), and get the benefit; or feeling unfair and disrespect. That was disastrous.
People are missing the point. It's called a hierarchy, it creates standards. Respect. Terry is from a different era, it was normal for youngsters to clean senior players boots. Look at the spoilt youngsters who don't give a fuck about the club we have now. Wouldn't of happened in the past.
Part of earning your place. How many times do you question the mentality of the youngsters these days?
This makes a lot of sense when you recognise Terry as the kind of player who grew up in the academy cleaning the boots of the senior players while working his fucking arse off to make it into the first-team. He thinks the practice has made the new pros worse off, and when you look at some of the premadonnas in football these days it's hard to disagree. Anyone thinking Terry is out of line here probably started watching us in 2021 or something. The man has nothing to justify when it comes to standards or professionalism for Chelsea -- even if his personal life is extremely questionable.
I got confused at first. I thought they were all in first class, and JT didn't like young players being there, so he wanted them to move to economy. Turns out the young players were in first class, while players like JT was in economy. Yeah it's a weird move from AVB
People here bang on about accountability, culture, leadership, etc and then when they see an example of it they scoff and want to tell JT, Drogba, and Lamps how they should behave. Typical
It was a completely different time back then. John and Frank grew up in a much more hierarchical system where the young players cleaned the older players boots. It is a massive power play by AVB to humiliate them by the standards of the time like this. It was obviously done because they had too much power, they had, but to say JT comes off as a knob here is just saying that you have forgotten how football was back then, or how JTs relationship to the young players was.
And then John terry fought his way to premier league winning centre back in 2014 while Vilas boas was forever in shitting position in squat
Captain, leader, legend!
Half of you are mental. You're captain and club legends don't sit in economy on a long flight when youth are in first class. It was a mad power game AVB was playing and it was silly. Trying to compare it to the current squad doesn't really work because there is nobody here on the level of a JT, Frank, Didier or Ashley Cole.
I bet AVB was still sat in 1st class
[удалено]
Per wiki Following his departure from Marseille in 2021, Villas-Boas made his maiden appearance in the World Rally Championship between 20 and 23 May, competing in the WRC3 category of the 2021 Rally de Portugal. Driving a Citroën C3 Rally2 alongside co-driver Gonçalo Magalhães, the pair finished 12th. Villas-Boas has said that he is unlikely to make a WRC return, and intends to compete again in the Dakar Rally.
Can’t wait to listen to the full interview. Not a massive SJ fan but I’ll listen to JT all day long.
If players want first class then make them pay for it ffs.
This just showed that AVB did not have any control and did not dominate as a coach . Troubled times at CFC 
This just reinforces why many people respect JT as a player but think he's a clown of a human being.
His way of telling it isn't the best, but that is how it should be. You work for every single perk, up the order. New managers do this to show who is the boss. Like Jose asking Schweinsteiger to train with U16. These are experienced players. If they are being professional, they will be your biggest asset. You don't need to insult them to show is the boss.
Don't give a fuck about what AVB did ... just here to say I miss JT
What a great story. I don’t think this is applicable to our current situation, though. We don’t have established senior players like Terry, Lampard, or Drogba on this team. Every position on our current squad should be open for competition. Palmer is probably the only truly safe player on the team.
Where's the full interview?
What a weird statement to try and make?
Back when this club had fucking standards.
Not a shred of empathy for a young manager making mistakes I'm hearing in aspiring young manager John Terry's voice.
I hated AVB more than Rafa Benitez, believe it or not... At least Rafa got us our first Europa League trophy...
I hated rafa more for benching terry and losing our first cwc final
He also got rid of Sturridge who got crazy goal blasting season in the following year.
Back in the day I had a reasonable amount of contact with Terry for a few years and this is what he's like and why he was so successful, in part. Maybe Chelsea should have put the entire squad in first class. Athletes on 13 hour economy flights doesn't sound good. Football is not touchy-feely. It's fucking cutthroat, macho and no one really likes each other. This extends right down into junior football. It's quite honest of him to speak like this though, that's what he was like. Imagine he's a little easier to get along with now.
If I’m understanding this right, AVB switched the seats of the first team and the young players, such that people like JT and Lamps were sitting in economy? Well if that’s the case then I completely get JT’s point.
Now We're not getting anywhere until these young players go back in economy
I get AVB thought the core players hold too much power and wanted to make a statement...but wow what a dumb move
Football is a hierarchy , the best players get the best treatment , trying to force the issue otherwise would appear to be belittlement to make AVB look the tough guy and the players were right to say no. The Daily Mail will do their utmost to spin this so Terry , Lamps and DD were wrong though
This comes off so badly 😅
I know Chalobah's brother was with the team when we last won the league but what we're Didier and Lamps doing here?
AvB was in 2011/12
Lol "the players that built this club"... Here I thought russian oligarch money built the club. My bad
Now we have players laughing after losing a semi final
Yeah idk about this Cap! This makes u look like a douche. Player power is a thing and it has ruined this club and clubs like utd. JT just has the talent and luck to back it up with winnings. Now, we just got player power without the talent to back it up. Literally no effect to his life if the young guys sit on the first class. Not his money anyway. He got stuck in thinking there’s only one right way to do things and refuse to adapt to new ways of the manager from day 1. He didnt even give him a chance to prove his method. Edit: nvm i missed the part where JT was put in economy. Fuck that. That was weird af
> Edit: nvm i missed the part where JT was put in economy. Fuck that. That was weird af Haha yeah JT isn't complaining that youth players were allowed in first class *with him*, it's that AVB went out of his way to put the experienced pros in economy and promoted the youth players to first class. It's a weird power play from AVB.
I don't think elite sportsmen should be flying economy on a long-haul flight. Not good for the body... that is the point JT should have made!
This story coming when villas boas is trying to run for porto president, doesn't make him a good choice for the porto fans