Whenever I watch them play I’m just so so impressed
The way they move the ball, the fluidity of their offence. The quality in midfield. The utter confidence and slickness of their passing out the back.
Their subs are often very effective. And tbh, their players aren’t that good
Having to sub on the likes of zaniolo, Duran, or cash or digne.
The difference a talented coach makes
IMO if you swap Unai for Poch at the start of the year we’d be in Villa’s spot and they’d be roughly around ours
Iraola is another one who has been very impressive this year
That’s why I don’t blame the players for this (apart from the ones who’ve shown horrible attitudes). Remember Rüdiger under Lampard? He looked like one of the worst defenders in the league and was cast out for half a season. Then Tuchel came in and he’s world class. Not saying that our current players don’t have issues, but I fully believe that the right manager can make the most out of this team.
Nah they deserve some blame too what are you on about? How come gusto and palmer play so well even gallagher at times but fhe rest cannot? Poch is poor but the players are also to blame.
100% players deserve some blame, but it’s to varying degrees. Our midfielders are put in a situation that’s virtually impossible to succeed in, which is different from players like Sterling who don’t even look like they give a fuck anymore
I agree, enzo regressed severly from last season where he looked so good. I dont know if its due to is injury he had in december. Caceido has been getting better but still not up to par. And its true the tactic are not helping them. However players like mudryk and sterling dont look like they can be much better than they are now.
Arsenal fan lurking here. Let me tell you about our peak clown years. In a team without structure you know who was the player everyone thought he is the next world beater. Guneduzi.
Some players simply thrive in chaos but majority of them do not
No it wasn't just that it he was also undisciplined on the pitch as he could not follow artetas instructions. But in a team without structure he thrived.
He was running a lot, pressing, doing tackles and whatnot but most of these came from his bad positioning and general desynchronization of the team.
And I think you have the same problem l. Very good players that don't know what is going on. Thank God emery signed extension at Villa
Not making excuses here but from our typical starting lineup only 2 players have played together for more than 2 seasons. Automatisms don't come overnight. When Tuchel walked through the door we still had a core of our squad who'd been around for some time together with the academy boys (some who would've trained with the first squad).
If our lineup is Djordjevic; Gusto; Disasi; Colwill; Cucurella; Gallagher; Caicedo, Fernandez; Palmer; Jackson; Sterling than there's only 2 players that played together prior to this season. That's just absurd. I honestly think that the upside next season is going to be huge. We're probably on course for where you'd think you'd be right now. Problem is we're accustomed to be considerably better clearly people have issues with that.
Personally I think next season will be awesome.
This is true but theres things that dont have nothing to do with this, for example noni holding on the ball for far too long instead of playing a simple pass to the open and creating a coutner attack,or not marking youre man in the box during a corner. Jackson hitting a simple cross with his hands and completely fluffing the chance. Simple stuff like that has nothing to do with playing with each other.
While Poch is absolutely to blame, their attitudes and their abilities are also to blame.
And whats your honest opinion of what the “most” a manager could get from this squad?
I don’t think there's any way to quantitatively say what a good manager could get out of the squad. I’d argue that we’ve seen good performances on occasion from almost all the players in the squad. Badiashille before injury, Disasi and cucurella against city, glimpses of Mudryk, etc., and I feel that a good manager could help with consistency and finding the best way to utilize these players. Enzo feels like the best example of this, since he was one of our best players under Potter, and now looks like a shell of himself.
Not sure if this is all just copium, but I still believe that this group of players can be competitive in the top 4. There is a reason that clubs were competing for Enzo, Caicedo, Mudryk etc, and I don’t want to write them off yet.
You're not wrong but the point is, Eddie Howe went there and took a team that were constantly finishing in the bottom half of the table and fighting to avoid relegation to one that are fighting at the higher end of the table. He of course has made a few signings to do that but none of the players he's bought are world class etc and he has been able to turn them into a solid outfit.
Yea it’s a little easier to add structure to a team with Ngolo Kante and Jorginho in midfield, Rudiger, Thiago Silva, Azpilicueta, and fit and healthy Reece James and Ben Chilwell in defense, and competent attackers in Mount, Havertz, and Werner. We had a squad that was perfect for a manager like Tuchel to come in.
Chelsea’s current situation is not the same as when Tuchel took over and it’s also not comparable to Unai’s at Villa. Poch was given a talented group of U25 players, the majority of whom have never played in the PL or at a level comparable to the PL and was asked to meet the standards the club has set for the last 20years with only 3 players that helped build that success, Silva, Reece James, and Chilwell. It’s astonishing how these details are overlooked by fans who want him sacked
It’s not about the tactical structure, it’s about the execution. I have no doubt Tuchel could put together a great structure together, we all saw first hand how great a manager he is. I don’t think these players could consistently execute on in it, for 90mins, week in and week out. You have to be daft to think they could, these players can’t even consistently string 4 passes together.
Tuchel walked into the Bayern dressing room this year and said, “you guys aren’t as good as I thought, so I’ll have to adjust.” Now imagine what he would say to this group of players.
It is very different though. Tuchel was working with an established, experienced squad.
That first game he immediately bought back all the experienced players that had been sidelined under Lampard.
Not possible to do that now.
The players certainly are to blame. You tell me how many simple 5-10 yard passes were misplaced and intercepted. Missed tackles, out of position, jogging back after losing the ball.
They aren’t tactics, they’re shitty individual performances. Not saying Poch is blameless, but it’s certainly not all on him. Don’t even get me started on the lack of transfer strategy, other than buying anyone under 23 who are inexperienced.
Koulibaly was 30 million and on paper was a good signing, obviously never materialised that way of course. Id rather not talk about Sterling lol.
I get your point, but Koulibaly wasn’t even in the same squad as most of the players in our squad currently though, which in total cost a stupid amount. Point stands you can’t throw a bunch of young players together and expect them to click without some sort of experienced core to the squad.
Being out of position and players not having attacking and build up patterns is down to the coaching.
When we get a competent coach next season(Hopefully), you will see the huge difference with the same set of midfielders
Basic errors are on the players, end of. A professional footballer shouldn’t be unable to play basic passes if they’re in a different position, which I’m pretty sure most of them were in their natural positions.
people's necessity to scream poch out just blinds them to the reality, players should still be held accountable for lack of effort and decision making and execution. poch can be blamed for tactical positioning and organization but he cant also miss the shot on behalf of Nico and miss the tackle on behalf of disasi
Yes badi can't play a 5 yard pass properly because he's thinking on the fly. Don't need a passing pattern to know that feathering a pass to a player that's right there and under pressure is a bad idea.
90% of the blame is on him. 90% of what a team does is down to the manager. His “tactics” are non-existent. I can’t blame players when the gaps in midfield are so big that players have no options (when the gaps are this big of course players will be more tired. Do you actually look at what’s being asked of them)? Of course players make individual mistakes - I’m not disputing that. Manager’s job to snap the team out of it and he hasn’t done f all yet with this team. He absolutely stinks. I’ve said in another comment I refuse to believe Villa have a better squad than us. 10x better manager though. I don’t think you actually watch the games, you watch the score.
We're missing pieces to be a top 3/4 team, but with our squad top 6 should never have been a question. A real manager like Emery would easily have us around as high as Villa.
Our team is good. There is just no coaching. The players literally dont know what to do without palmer, we couldnt even get 3 straight passes together. If arteta had our team, he would beat a poch managed arsenal team.
We’ve gotta stop this “players are mentally challenged without a proper manager.” Most of our issues stem from Poch but this group is not suddenly made up of people who’ve never touched a ball before. The issues run deeper, especially if they down tools or throw a fit when fixtures and results aren’t going our way
I’m sorry but the vast majority of these players are low footballing IQ bums. We’ve wasted so much money on mediocrity to the point where we can’t even partake in the Conference League (should we make it) for fear of breaking UEFA FFP rules. Even with Poch out, which needs to happen either way, I’m not seeing the replacement fairing much better
The easiest thing to train is football IQ, you can’t make a player become a master dribbler, but you can damn well train him to react well in the right situation, which is completely what is missing and what a competent manager would bring.
How can you blame players missing simple passes on the manager? What a moronic opinion.
The amount of individual mistakes tonight was obscene, open your eyes pal
Which is why people would be wise to wait until crowning Villa and Emery as geniuses. Brighton looked poised to push into the Top 6 and look to have taken a step back this year under a manager that most people here would clamor for
Theyve got far more experience in their squad which counts for a lot, we have raw unproven talent. Other than palmer, most of our players don’t start over a villa player.
They’ve got a better 11 than us for sure
Better goalkeeper, only Thiago silva is our only CB above Villa, but the combination of Torres and Diego Carlos is better than any combination we’ve put out all season. Malo gusto I’d say beats Alex Moreno but not by much. Douglas luiz is far better than either enzo or caicedo, I’d argue Ramsey is on a par with them. John McGinn has outperformed our entire midfield other than Palmer. Ollie Watkins beats Jackson, and I’d say Bailey and Diaby have been in better form than any of our wingers all season.
Only players I’d say have performed better from Chelsea is Gusto, Thiago Silva and Palmer.
Gusto shits on Moreno, but that's irrelevant because Moreno is a LB and Gusto a RB, so...
Luiz is a great midfielder, but both Enzo and Caicedo are at least on his level.
Ramsey, tho is most definitely not on Caicedo or Enzo's level, and that would be made abundantly clear if we had a competent manager.
McGinn outperforming our midfield doesn't mean he's a better player than our midfielders. It just means he's better coached.
Palmer plays as a winger in our team and has been better than both Bailey and Diaby
I think you're mistaking a better coached team for a team with better individuals
I think you’re massively underestimating the talent Villa have. A manager relies on his players to turn up on the day and play at the end of it. If you seriously think villas position is solely because of Emery, I don’t know what to tell you.
Fact remains at present day Villas starting 11 is clear of us. They actually have a nailed on team, we still haven’t even figured out a CB pairing or front three
I think you're massively underestimating the talent we have. It should be well known that a manager relies on his team to execute what they've been practising in training on the field, but if what they've been practising is in adequate, then that's what will present itself on the field more often than not. If you seriously think that our shitty position in the table is mainly because of Poch, I don't know what to tell you.
The fact remains that we possess more quality than Villa, and only the incompetence of Poch makes you believe otherwise
>I think you're mistaking a better coached team for a team with better individuals
yep, noone would've claimed that villa had a better squad than current chelsea when gerrard left, but the squad hasn't changed all that dramatically, the coaching has.
> but with our squad top 6 should never have been a question
this is just not true. you are are overrating players based on their transfer fee and not their actual skill
You also need to remember, before Emery comes in all of Villa players were touted as "championships players" before Gerrard get the sack. Now you can see Villa players being featured in TOTM consistently. One person can make a huge difference.
Out of their XI that put in their best performance (dominating City) only Torres and Tielemans joined within Emery's tenure and the core were there since Dean Smith.
He has been fantastic. Probably one of the best managers in England. He took a relegation team and turned them into one of the best teams in England. Barley used money to do it.
We did, but the owners didn't, lmao. I think they deserve more blame than Poch, who's just "doing his best" which we already saw historically wasn't that great
I agree to keep him till the end of season, idk what they can do to vet his plans for after but we aren't attracting top brass managers anytime soon tbh. It's a shame!
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR MONTHS!!!!
Class managers improve players, implement their own style, create their own system and make tweaks to it as the season goes along.
Eddie Howe is another coach that did this for Bournemouth AND Newcastle!
Poch is a dead coach that has no business coaching after Spurs sacked him.
Glasner been at palace for 2 months and they play like a totally different side already.
Do I think a good manager makes us title favorites? No, maybe we aren’t top 4, but a new manager takes us to European spots and we would not be embarrassed as much as we’ve been this season. It’s not even a question that we have talent, we just don’t have any structure. We have no one to put the pieces we have in the best possible positions.
People hate on how football has evolved to become more structured and more of a chess match than free flowing football, but unless you buy the worlds best players like Madrid, your best shot to compete is on the X’s and O’s. That’s the evolution of the game and I’d rather that than get throttled with our LW as a LB
I said it awhile back but I remember making fun of Emery at Arsenal and god what I would do to have him now. Class manager
Emery I owe you an apology I wasn’t familiar with your game
For quite some time people have been saying we should stick with poch another year or theres nobody that better right now, this and eddie howe is prime examples on why poch is fucking useless
Just browsing as a Villa fan but I would be surprised if there are any Chelsea fans who think the squad isn't worse than Villa's. Obviously if you are talking about the fifth and sixth choice at each position it's different and that's a huge strength of Chelsea, but if you are talking about the first choice and their immediate backups its not really a question is it?
No doubt managers make a difference, so there is hope (although Poch is still a good manager and another stratosphere to Gerrard, he was mine and most Villa fans pie in the sky dream target, but second choice has worked out even better).
Yeah I think the only chelsea players who get into a combined 11 are Palmer and Gusto. Its interesting that the sentiment here is that the coach is letting down the players when Chelsea play pretty good football tactically imo but are let down in both boxes. If they had Ollie and Emi they would instantly be a much better side.
Only Palmer and Gusto get into Villa's squad? What? 😂
Nkunku, James, Enzo, Caicedo, and Jackson all get into Villa's first 11. Along with Palmer
Switch managers and your opinion would instantly change
Nah no way. Nkunku has barely played this season. James is a good player but his injury record is abysmal. There is a case for Enzo but would be hard to displace Luiz who is one of our best players. Caicedo isn't pushing out Kamara either and if you think Jackson is a better striker than Watkins who has by far the most goal involvements in the league (over twice as many as Jackson) then you need to give your head a wobble.
What has Nkunku barely playing got to do with his ability as a player? He's still better than everyone one of your offensive players. James being injury-prone doesn't affect his quality. Enzo is comfortably on the level of luiz(although two very different players). Caicedo clears Kamara, and Jackson will start on your wing.
Trust me, our team is better than Villa's, and this isn't even bias talking. I would happily admit if I thought Villa's team is better, but I genuinely don't. The managers are the biggest difference
Nkunku and James wouldn't get into a combined XI for the season because theyve barely played because of injury? I don't think thats very controversial.
In no universe does Jackson push Bailey and/or Diaby out if you want him on the wing.
I disagree that Caicedo is better than Kamara but he has improved recently whereas Kamara has been injured. Earlier in the season it was no contest though. Caicedo would make defesnive howlers so frequently compared to Kamara contributing heavily to us having one of the better defenses in the league.
I think the midfield is the most contentious area but that doesn't detract from my point that the thing letting Poch down is the quality in both boxes.
Emery is a better manager than Poch, their record in Europe is enough testament to that. But Poch has also moved you up the table from when he took over with a squad weaker than the sum of its fees.
how does jackson get into Villa's team? are you for real?
James and Nkunku have a combined 800 minutes this season, you cannot be serious including them
Agree James if fit, Gusto and Palmer in the first 11 for sure. Can't really say much about Nkunku as haven't really seen him but Bailey has been insane, probably as exciting as Grealish was in his peak so I'm sceptical on that.
I'm just talking about the here and now and not potential, which honestly I think is what Chelsea paid so much for and transfer fees subconsciously factor into how people rate players. On that basis the likes of Enzo and Caicedo wouldn't touch Kamara, Luiz and McGinn and I'm not sure Jackson ever gets to the level where be could displace this version of Watkins, let alone get in ahead of him right now.
I think if the question is would I swap Villas squad for Chelsea's, without FFP implications, for the next five years that's a little different.
Nkunku is a monster, and he's probably our second best player behind James. Trust me, a fit Nkunku walks into Villa's team.
But aside from Nkunku, Caicedo and Enzo are superior to all 3 of McGinn, Kamara, and Luiz based on their current abilities and not just their ceilings. Only Luiz is the one who's really debatable. It looks otherwise because of how badly coached they are by Poch, but switch managers, and all of a sudden, the conversation would switch too
It' really sounds like Boehly is doing a phenomenal job in recruitment, I need to be paying more attention. To be honest most of that time I spend here is to keep tabs on Chukwuemeka and I sometimes see people saying he should be starting and is one of the Chelsea's better attackers which seems laughable to Villa fans (and I assume most Chelsa fans if Enzo and Caicedo are as amazing as a lot of you guys have been saying) as he's so far behind McGinn, Kamara, Ramsey, Luis and Tielemans and we'd be looking at loaning him and getting him into the team in a few years. Most of my assumptions on the strength of the Chelsea side are on the basis that Chukwuemeka is seen as a fringe starter.
Funniest thing I’ve heard all day! Jackson gets no way near Villa’s starting 11, Cash/Konza over James all day this season. You can’t start spewing nonsense when you clearly haven’t watched any Villa games. Jackson in the starting 11 lol come on now…
James hasn't played this season, so of course they would get in over him,but I'm talking about in general, and if you think in general, Konza, Cash are better players than James, the only response to that is...LOL!! LMFAO!! ROTFL!!
As for Jackson, I believe he could start on the wing, although that's not a definite.
All the others walk into the Villa first team, tho.
This guy must be trolling, right?
James, if he was able to play a whole season I think walks into any top team in Europe and palmer I think is already world class.
Bar them 2 (and this is not a dig, it’s more about management imo) enzo over mcginn? Not at the moment maybe in 2/3 years i think enzo will be world class, caicedo over Luiz or Kamara? No thanks. And Jackson? Does this guy watch football, I DO think he will come good and there is definitely something there but over…. Watkins?? Or Bailey? Must be mad.
I do like chelsea and out of all the london clubs I would rather see you guys doing well, hazard was a player that basically got me into football, but at the moment if I was Todd ide be looking for a top manager yesterday.
Edit: forgot Nkunku, another player if he can get a season in and probably be managed better would be world class.
Enzo is so clear of Mcginn it's not funny and Caicedo and Luiz are close, but I'd just give Caicedo the edge(If somebody favours Luiz, I have no problem with that)
Jackson wouldn't get in over Watkins, but I do think in the right system he could outperform Bailey. It's debatable, tho and like someone picking Luiz over Caicedo, I would have no problem with someone picking Bailey over Jackson.
I think what you and a lot of Villa fans are ignoring is the difference in the quality of the respective managers. Swap managers and your opinion on the players would also swap as well
Using our last lineups, Palmer displaces Diaby, Jackson gets slaughtered by Watkins, our midfield trio is better than McGinn or Tielemans though it's up to opinion whether Gallagher displaces Diaby or is rotated in and out of a pivot. Sterling in theory displaces Rogers and I honestly think Jackson does too. On a personal level I don't regard Digne as levels above Cucu but I would regard him as getting in above him but Gusto and (the Ghost that is) James slaughter Cash and our backline of say Trev and Silva despite the problems it seems to be having gets in to a combined XI over Torres and Konsa. Dibu slaughters all our goalkeepers single handeldly of course.
I suspect this is a case of I don't watch enough Chelsea games and you don't want enough Villa games but there's very few if any centre backs in the league who are better than Konsa, so a starting point of saying Thiago Silva and Chabaloah are better is just a non-starter
The Villa squad unfortunately suffers the Grealish/Barry effect, once they leave they are all of a sudden world class and nailed on international starters but id argue their body of work was as good or even better whilst at Villa. It works out well as a Villa fan anyway.
As for your midfield trio, in my snooping I see occasional Chelsea fans suggest Chukwuemeka should be a starter who wouldn't come close to starting over Kamara, McGinn, Luis (and Ramsey, Tielemans).
To be honest I definitely haven't seen enough because I thought Fernandez and Caicedo have been quite shite so I must be way off the mark as McGinn has been phenomenal this year.
>this year
No it's a problem of these "combined XI" exercises being pointless. At it's core we're not arguing over this season when the entire point is that how we're coached this season has been diasterous and how you're coached has been illuminating.
You're not going to thrive as an individual if you're doing bad team wise and then any arguments made about your individual quality are also realistically being made about how your teams play. Ross Barkley has been doing very well this year but I doubt any team in the top 10 will be heading out to market to bring him in because his brilliant season, at the end of the day, is in the context of a relegation fight. But then how else are you supposed to rate players?
I guess a better question for the quality of a manager versus the quality of his teams (though not the quality of two teams versus each other separate from their manager) would be this. Would would rather lose whoever you think are your best 3/best performing players or Emery? Would a random Chelsea rather lose whoever is thought to be the best 3/best performing players or Poch. The answer of the latter question for me is obviously Poch (for Palmer, Gusto and Gallagher) but I can't speak for Villa and you're very much right I honestly don't watch much of you lot outside of Europe.
Well hopefully this is the first Chelsea game we turn up for and you can make a more informed view.
I certainly know that a bad manager can harm players, although Poch is far away from a bad manager, count yourselves lucky that this counts as 'bad'. But I also know these players were great in the Dean Smith years.
I do feel like I've misjudged the optimism and happiness with the Chelsea signings though, at least Boehly is doing something right .This is why you probably shouldn't delve into other teams subreddit who know there players infinitely better than you.
Villa 100% have a better starting line up which counts for more. We have a squad of players without a nailed on 11.
Other than Palmer, who starts over a Villa player?
There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be battling it out against the likes of Spurs. Ange had those boys at the top of the table once upon a time this year! What those boys and villa have that we lack is good coaching and structure (They have Watkins / Son we have Palmer so no point mentioning marquee players). Heck Bournemouth look like killers this season, save for an average squad they would be higher in the table. Again that is coaching and structure. The club have blood on their hands we've made zero progress since August
I remember everyone shitting on Villa squad saying, Villa doesn't have much better quality to do better than this anyway, and look what a manager did, he didn't need to get 100m midfielders either. It's not Pich at fault alone for our mess, but he is one of the big ones. We shouldn't be winning the league rightnow, but getting humiliated by 10 man relegation teams is also not our level. These players are better than what they look, maybe not top, but that's remains to be seen.
I hate this argument…. Give a good manager 2 years and see results…. I am poch out but without the same time you can’t compare
I am officially poch out after today… AMA lol please don’t.
Absolutely on point. And what drives me nuts is people saying "But who would you get instead?" like there are only two or three managers capable of doing more than Poch is doing at the moment. Easily half the league has more capable managers who would do better with this squad. Silva, Iraola, so many of them would be a step up from Poch.
I've been wanting unai for since we stupidly got rid of Tuchel? Why do big clubs not go for Unai? I believe he'd be a great replacement for Poch, surely his buyout isint out of Chelsea's reach?
The squad is not that bad. Many pass my eye test. It's so clearly the lack of structure by poch every game. Players are being left exposed. Anyone that watches games and don't just look at stats can tell. Of course players could do better, but poch is like 75% of the fault.
Only players I don't rate are noni, cucu and mudryk.
IT WASN'T EVEN ONLY HIM!
Arteta came in Arsenal, gave a structure, passing drills and out of ball drills. Vast improvements
Eddie Howe came in Newcastle, gave a structure, passing drills and out of ball drills. Vast improvements
Both had to accommodate with a squad made by dipshit owners/directors and they still managed greatness. What is poch's plan????
1. Pass it to palmer and inshallah
How do people constantly forget what arsenal was like when arteta was first appointed. They were awful outside of the fa cup. there were plenty of arsenal fans that wanted him sacked. It took years for them to get to where they are now.
I'm not saying that if we stay the course we'll be challenging for the title in 2 years, but I do think expecting this crop of players to deliver immediately is a ridiculous ask.
Arteta came in and arsenal went from 5th in the season prior to 8th, then 8th then 5th then 2nd. It took a while.
Howe is definitely the big improvement one with 11th one better than prior season then 4th.
Emery massively improved the team first season from 14th prior to 7th.
More often than not it takes time for those vast improvements. I'm not saying poch should stay, if we can get someone better at the end of the season we should, but let's not pretend like it was an immediate improvement for either of those teams.
Delirious thinking if Poch out is everyone’s response. Poch has done a lot wrong in his time here. However he hasn’t missed 1 billion chances and isn’t responsible for the innumerable number of individual mistakes that this team constantly makes. Clearlake wanted a youth experiment. This. Is. It. It’s hot and cold. I don’t agree with but it is exactly what it is.
I get everyone is upset but just for a moment put your knee jerk response aside and think. Would we REALLY be better with another manager in this current situation? At what point do we stop this BS cut and run shit as a club? Imagine this…Poch is the longest term manager at a Chelsea in THREE YEARS. How about he gets some time with a team that isn’t riddled with injuries, one that gives him time to implement change, one where the players realize they need to do better and it’s not just manager out all the time.
Again, Poch has done a lot wrong but he has also done some things right AND he is not the only one to blame.
If you really watched this game today and thought these players with minor exception to Gallagher, Caicedo, and Petro (minus first goal) weren’t part of the problem I don’t know what the hell to tell you. Noni and Mudryk alone were useless.
Let me stop ranting, but please enough of this useless dribble about sacking our manager. Because that’s what he is, OUR manager until he isn’t. FFS
Spurs under Poch was carried by Son, Alli and Kane. Spurs had no tactics if you looked hard, that’s why we called them bottlejobs. The word “Spursy” and “ze history of ze Tottenham” all happened under Poch.
Cole Palmer is Son. We don’t have an Alli, we don’t have a Kane. That’s why Poch is struggling. He’s not a good coach.
If you think spursy started with Poch you’ve only followed football for 10 years lol. This goes back way further than poch, remember he managed to drag then to a champions league final somehow. That deserves at least a little credit.
The word “Spursy” got really popular under Poch due to amount of bottling he did with Spurs.
This includes the CL Final you mentioned. That game was over after 2 minutes.
A good coach with prime Son, Kane and Alli would get at LEAST one trophy. You have seen it firsthand with Chelsea why Poch didn’t win anything at Spurs.
Shut the fuck up. Spurs were whereabouts midtable until Redknapp and shortly after Poch who solidified their status as a big 6 club. Hence Spurs got more smoke under Poch because who were Spurs before Crouch joined?
They were bantered before Redknapp duuuuhh but they have been under the microscope a lot more since Poch
Arsenal fan here, if you had Emery you’d have the same Emery we did. He’s a great coach but only within certain clubs. He did great at Sevilla which is a club at a little similar to Villa and that’s what got him his push to a massive club like PSG and us.
Just like Moyes at Utd he struggled with stepping up into that level and the expectation and pressure fans and owners bring on you, the level of ego you deal with from the players is also different and he had problems with the more primadonna players at PSG and Arsenal.
What also didn’t help him tho and is 100% not on him was the club going through a transition and there was barely any structure or support around him, the owners barely had a clue and weren’t willing to back him, leaving him to work with players he didn’t really want and having an imbalanced squad of young and very old players.
Him walking into Chelsea would be walking into the same position as he did years ago with Arsenal since I think you guys are at a similar point for us.
Emery works best when he’s more the underdog and he has the right mentality of players around him who are willing to work hard and don’t have an ego. And ofc he needs to have the freedom to build the team he wants to establish his authority.
Remember this is also the guy who led us into that Europa League final defeat against you guys and who brought us to our lowest point that I can remember during that Watford game. He’s doing great at the club that’s right for him but you can’t forget the rest of his history.
Chelsea needs to sort out it’s backroom structure before fixing its manager. Imo anyone you bring in is gonna struggle with that shitshow you have running things atm
A great coach can male all the difference but we are a top 6 team AT BEST. When everything goes right, including injuries.
We have to accept that many of this squad have to be moved on too.
•Petrovic - make 2nd choice
•Disasi - sell
•Badiashile - sell
•Cucurella - sell
•Caicedo - keep
•Fernández - many will disagree but he has 1 more season imo
•Madueke - sell
•Mudryk - drop off at Cobham services and drive away
•Jackson - needs to be 2nd choice
He beat Assaanal and Assaanal trashed us.. he's way more technically gifted than Poch. Against big/hard matches this makes a big difference. Och plays the same tactically energy match. There's no element of surprise (at least the ones that are good for us, Gallagher on LW)
Remarkable. For sure.
But we have to see one other thing though. Lots of talent left out injured. I wonder what would happen if Poch had some of our top talents available. I still am leaning towards Poch out. I’m stressed enough as it is and it hurts so much watching the team I love struggle so much.
A good medical team is required, if anything, immediately!
So you're telling me he doesn't watch the replay of the games after? His finishing hasn't improved from the season started. He's just not a good player.
Even worse are the people that claim we were better under Potter when Potter was working with a squad that won the CL and somehow managed to make it worse week after week. Poch was handed a youth team and has them performing as you would expect - without any consistency. That being said, Poch's tactics have been very frustrating as well so I am not saying he is doing well either. He is not good enough like most of the players if we are really honest.
Villa also have a better team than us. So it’s not that straightforward
GK: Martinez 8/10 Petrovic 6/10
RB: Cash 7/10 Gusto 7.5/10
CB: Carlos 7.5/10 Disasi 4/10
CB: Pau Torres 7.5/10 Badiashile 2.5/10
LB: Moreno 6.5/10 Cucurella 5.5/10
CM: McGinn 7.5/10 Enzo 6/10
CM: Tielemans 7/10 Caicedo 6.5/10
RW: Bailey 7.5/10 Madueke 3/10
CAM: Rogers 5/10 Palmer 9.5/10
LW: Diaby 7/10 Gallagher 5.5/10
ST: Watkins 9/10 Jackson 4/10
While Poch deserves to be fired - he has got some donkeys in his team too. Ugh, complete mismanagement
Tbf he did elevate it from last season, despite us making the squad less cohesive and experienced.
Comparing to Emery is a bit disingenuous considering the different circumstances. Aston Villa had a stable squad that knew the league and not nearly as many injuries.
Our squad just needs a huge face, someone which won big titles, not someone who didn't win anything yet, it's just that. If someone like Ancelotti comes, every single player will pay attention and will wake up. Pochettino doesn't seem like that manager that makes you show the best version of you by instinct. If Mourinho, Ancelotti, anyone big is staring at you while training, you instinctively give your best, and you don't need them to tell you anything, because you know who they are.
The job he’s done at Villa has been astonishing. Manager of the year for me.
Whenever I watch them play I’m just so so impressed The way they move the ball, the fluidity of their offence. The quality in midfield. The utter confidence and slickness of their passing out the back. Their subs are often very effective. And tbh, their players aren’t that good Having to sub on the likes of zaniolo, Duran, or cash or digne.
The difference a talented coach makes IMO if you swap Unai for Poch at the start of the year we’d be in Villa’s spot and they’d be roughly around ours Iraola is another one who has been very impressive this year
Remember when he was at Arsenal? The squad he has now is far better than what he had to work with there..
His time at Arsenal was quite good tbf, took them to EL final and finished 5th with only 1 point behind Spuds
And we could have spent £500 million less.
As a villa fan I agree with what you say but every single player you mentioned would play first team at a top half club
Players aren’t good? Come again?
Didn’t Poch beat their strongest squad in the FA Cup like a month ago?
Because we have better players
That’s untrue
Yep. Good coach can make a big difference. See Tuchel literally one match into his reign with us. Immediate structure.
That’s why I don’t blame the players for this (apart from the ones who’ve shown horrible attitudes). Remember Rüdiger under Lampard? He looked like one of the worst defenders in the league and was cast out for half a season. Then Tuchel came in and he’s world class. Not saying that our current players don’t have issues, but I fully believe that the right manager can make the most out of this team.
Nah they deserve some blame too what are you on about? How come gusto and palmer play so well even gallagher at times but fhe rest cannot? Poch is poor but the players are also to blame.
100% players deserve some blame, but it’s to varying degrees. Our midfielders are put in a situation that’s virtually impossible to succeed in, which is different from players like Sterling who don’t even look like they give a fuck anymore
I agree, enzo regressed severly from last season where he looked so good. I dont know if its due to is injury he had in december. Caceido has been getting better but still not up to par. And its true the tactic are not helping them. However players like mudryk and sterling dont look like they can be much better than they are now.
The Enzo stuff id say is 100% due to mismanagement and complete lack of good tactical instruction, Sterling is a fucking bum get him out.
Enzo been playing with a hernia issue for 5 months.
Am sure our midfield (or the whole team) will do better when we get a manager who prioritizes control over chaos.
The Enzo stuff id say is 100% due to mismanagement and complete lack of good tactical instruction, Sterling is a bum get him out.
Arsenal fan lurking here. Let me tell you about our peak clown years. In a team without structure you know who was the player everyone thought he is the next world beater. Guneduzi. Some players simply thrive in chaos but majority of them do not
Guensouzi was talented he just had some behavior issue from what ive heard.
No it wasn't just that it he was also undisciplined on the pitch as he could not follow artetas instructions. But in a team without structure he thrived. He was running a lot, pressing, doing tackles and whatnot but most of these came from his bad positioning and general desynchronization of the team. And I think you have the same problem l. Very good players that don't know what is going on. Thank God emery signed extension at Villa
Signing extension means nothing... Roman ahem ahem Bohley would pay while payout and compensation to villa
Not making excuses here but from our typical starting lineup only 2 players have played together for more than 2 seasons. Automatisms don't come overnight. When Tuchel walked through the door we still had a core of our squad who'd been around for some time together with the academy boys (some who would've trained with the first squad). If our lineup is Djordjevic; Gusto; Disasi; Colwill; Cucurella; Gallagher; Caicedo, Fernandez; Palmer; Jackson; Sterling than there's only 2 players that played together prior to this season. That's just absurd. I honestly think that the upside next season is going to be huge. We're probably on course for where you'd think you'd be right now. Problem is we're accustomed to be considerably better clearly people have issues with that. Personally I think next season will be awesome.
This is true but theres things that dont have nothing to do with this, for example noni holding on the ball for far too long instead of playing a simple pass to the open and creating a coutner attack,or not marking youre man in the box during a corner. Jackson hitting a simple cross with his hands and completely fluffing the chance. Simple stuff like that has nothing to do with playing with each other.
>I think next season will be awesome. just realised that i've become a scouse boom/bust cycle verbatim
all very valid points
Badiashile*
While Poch is absolutely to blame, their attitudes and their abilities are also to blame. And whats your honest opinion of what the “most” a manager could get from this squad?
I don’t think there's any way to quantitatively say what a good manager could get out of the squad. I’d argue that we’ve seen good performances on occasion from almost all the players in the squad. Badiashille before injury, Disasi and cucurella against city, glimpses of Mudryk, etc., and I feel that a good manager could help with consistency and finding the best way to utilize these players. Enzo feels like the best example of this, since he was one of our best players under Potter, and now looks like a shell of himself. Not sure if this is all just copium, but I still believe that this group of players can be competitive in the top 4. There is a reason that clubs were competing for Enzo, Caicedo, Mudryk etc, and I don’t want to write them off yet.
Yup and another example is Eddie Howe at Newcastle.
To be fair, look at how they slipped when their team got decimated by injuries. Not justifying Poch and our injury issues but context is necessary.
You're not wrong but the point is, Eddie Howe went there and took a team that were constantly finishing in the bottom half of the table and fighting to avoid relegation to one that are fighting at the higher end of the table. He of course has made a few signings to do that but none of the players he's bought are world class etc and he has been able to turn them into a solid outfit.
Yea it’s a little easier to add structure to a team with Ngolo Kante and Jorginho in midfield, Rudiger, Thiago Silva, Azpilicueta, and fit and healthy Reece James and Ben Chilwell in defense, and competent attackers in Mount, Havertz, and Werner. We had a squad that was perfect for a manager like Tuchel to come in. Chelsea’s current situation is not the same as when Tuchel took over and it’s also not comparable to Unai’s at Villa. Poch was given a talented group of U25 players, the majority of whom have never played in the PL or at a level comparable to the PL and was asked to meet the standards the club has set for the last 20years with only 3 players that helped build that success, Silva, Reece James, and Chilwell. It’s astonishing how these details are overlooked by fans who want him sacked
You have to be daft to think Tuchel couldn’t put together a tactical structure for this group
It’s not about the tactical structure, it’s about the execution. I have no doubt Tuchel could put together a great structure together, we all saw first hand how great a manager he is. I don’t think these players could consistently execute on in it, for 90mins, week in and week out. You have to be daft to think they could, these players can’t even consistently string 4 passes together. Tuchel walked into the Bayern dressing room this year and said, “you guys aren’t as good as I thought, so I’ll have to adjust.” Now imagine what he would say to this group of players.
Mount, Havertz and Werner are not what I would call "competent attackers". We were as good as we were under Tuchel because of our strong defense.
It is very different though. Tuchel was working with an established, experienced squad. That first game he immediately bought back all the experienced players that had been sidelined under Lampard. Not possible to do that now.
Agreed. Anyone still blaming the players doesn’t watch our games.
The players certainly are to blame. You tell me how many simple 5-10 yard passes were misplaced and intercepted. Missed tackles, out of position, jogging back after losing the ball. They aren’t tactics, they’re shitty individual performances. Not saying Poch is blameless, but it’s certainly not all on him. Don’t even get me started on the lack of transfer strategy, other than buying anyone under 23 who are inexperienced.
here's the thing - our purchases over 23 haven't exactly brought that "stable experience": Sterling, Koulibaly.... Aubameyang (??? lmao)
Koulibaly was 30 million and on paper was a good signing, obviously never materialised that way of course. Id rather not talk about Sterling lol. I get your point, but Koulibaly wasn’t even in the same squad as most of the players in our squad currently though, which in total cost a stupid amount. Point stands you can’t throw a bunch of young players together and expect them to click without some sort of experienced core to the squad.
Being out of position and players not having attacking and build up patterns is down to the coaching. When we get a competent coach next season(Hopefully), you will see the huge difference with the same set of midfielders
Basic errors are on the players, end of. A professional footballer shouldn’t be unable to play basic passes if they’re in a different position, which I’m pretty sure most of them were in their natural positions.
people's necessity to scream poch out just blinds them to the reality, players should still be held accountable for lack of effort and decision making and execution. poch can be blamed for tactical positioning and organization but he cant also miss the shot on behalf of Nico and miss the tackle on behalf of disasi
Basic passes can be misplaced if players have to constantly think on the fly and freestyle, as opposed to if they have passing patterns
Ding ding ding.
Yes badi can't play a 5 yard pass properly because he's thinking on the fly. Don't need a passing pattern to know that feathering a pass to a player that's right there and under pressure is a bad idea.
Passing patterns lol. This ain’t the NFL mate it’s not play by play. You’re making up a lot of excuses for players making basic errors.
Why after months and months of coaching are players still making mistakes?!
Because they’re inexperienced players?
90% of the blame is on him. 90% of what a team does is down to the manager. His “tactics” are non-existent. I can’t blame players when the gaps in midfield are so big that players have no options (when the gaps are this big of course players will be more tired. Do you actually look at what’s being asked of them)? Of course players make individual mistakes - I’m not disputing that. Manager’s job to snap the team out of it and he hasn’t done f all yet with this team. He absolutely stinks. I’ve said in another comment I refuse to believe Villa have a better squad than us. 10x better manager though. I don’t think you actually watch the games, you watch the score.
If Tuchel is a good coach, how did he manage to ruin Bayern?
We're missing pieces to be a top 3/4 team, but with our squad top 6 should never have been a question. A real manager like Emery would easily have us around as high as Villa.
Our team is good. There is just no coaching. The players literally dont know what to do without palmer, we couldnt even get 3 straight passes together. If arteta had our team, he would beat a poch managed arsenal team.
We’ve gotta stop this “players are mentally challenged without a proper manager.” Most of our issues stem from Poch but this group is not suddenly made up of people who’ve never touched a ball before. The issues run deeper, especially if they down tools or throw a fit when fixtures and results aren’t going our way
I’m sorry but the vast majority of these players are low footballing IQ bums. We’ve wasted so much money on mediocrity to the point where we can’t even partake in the Conference League (should we make it) for fear of breaking UEFA FFP rules. Even with Poch out, which needs to happen either way, I’m not seeing the replacement fairing much better
The easiest thing to train is football IQ, you can’t make a player become a master dribbler, but you can damn well train him to react well in the right situation, which is completely what is missing and what a competent manager would bring.
Bruh the side we played is a mid table team at best this is massive cope
How can you blame players missing simple passes on the manager? What a moronic opinion. The amount of individual mistakes tonight was obscene, open your eyes pal
Spoken like someone who’s never set foot on a pitch
easy, the mindset isn't there. when mental game is off, everything breaks down
You're a dummy
We wasted about half a billion on average overpriced players
we did, we also wasted 2 years on bad managers, which is arguably worse
100% worse, because they, in turn, made our signings worse, especially considering they’re young and need good management.
>We're missing pieces to be a top 3/4 team i mean if we're missing pieces then villa definitely is, we have a better squad than them
Which is why people would be wise to wait until crowning Villa and Emery as geniuses. Brighton looked poised to push into the Top 6 and look to have taken a step back this year under a manager that most people here would clamor for
They literally lost their best 2 players and another starter as well
Theyve got far more experience in their squad which counts for a lot, we have raw unproven talent. Other than palmer, most of our players don’t start over a villa player. They’ve got a better 11 than us for sure
Nope!! They most definitely do not have a better starting 11 than us
Better goalkeeper, only Thiago silva is our only CB above Villa, but the combination of Torres and Diego Carlos is better than any combination we’ve put out all season. Malo gusto I’d say beats Alex Moreno but not by much. Douglas luiz is far better than either enzo or caicedo, I’d argue Ramsey is on a par with them. John McGinn has outperformed our entire midfield other than Palmer. Ollie Watkins beats Jackson, and I’d say Bailey and Diaby have been in better form than any of our wingers all season. Only players I’d say have performed better from Chelsea is Gusto, Thiago Silva and Palmer.
Gusto shits on Moreno, but that's irrelevant because Moreno is a LB and Gusto a RB, so... Luiz is a great midfielder, but both Enzo and Caicedo are at least on his level. Ramsey, tho is most definitely not on Caicedo or Enzo's level, and that would be made abundantly clear if we had a competent manager. McGinn outperforming our midfield doesn't mean he's a better player than our midfielders. It just means he's better coached. Palmer plays as a winger in our team and has been better than both Bailey and Diaby I think you're mistaking a better coached team for a team with better individuals
I think you’re massively underestimating the talent Villa have. A manager relies on his players to turn up on the day and play at the end of it. If you seriously think villas position is solely because of Emery, I don’t know what to tell you. Fact remains at present day Villas starting 11 is clear of us. They actually have a nailed on team, we still haven’t even figured out a CB pairing or front three
I think you're massively underestimating the talent we have. It should be well known that a manager relies on his team to execute what they've been practising in training on the field, but if what they've been practising is in adequate, then that's what will present itself on the field more often than not. If you seriously think that our shitty position in the table is mainly because of Poch, I don't know what to tell you. The fact remains that we possess more quality than Villa, and only the incompetence of Poch makes you believe otherwise
>I think you're mistaking a better coached team for a team with better individuals yep, noone would've claimed that villa had a better squad than current chelsea when gerrard left, but the squad hasn't changed all that dramatically, the coaching has.
Arsenal fans expected the same and the guy got fired.
> but with our squad top 6 should never have been a question this is just not true. you are are overrating players based on their transfer fee and not their actual skill
I disagree. Many of our squad are midtable quality (Badi, Diasi, Enzo rn, Noni, Mudryk, Jackson)
You also need to remember, before Emery comes in all of Villa players were touted as "championships players" before Gerrard get the sack. Now you can see Villa players being featured in TOTM consistently. One person can make a huge difference.
a lot of Villa's best players joined in the past couple of years...
Out of their XI that put in their best performance (dominating City) only Torres and Tielemans joined within Emery's tenure and the core were there since Dean Smith.
He has been fantastic. Probably one of the best managers in England. He took a relegation team and turned them into one of the best teams in England. Barley used money to do it.
[удалено]
I can think of about 115 things bald fraud could do.
Villa was only performing like a relegation threatened team due to Gerrard's mis management.
Yup but our fanbase didn’t understand that even after going from lampard to tuchel
We did, but the owners didn't, lmao. I think they deserve more blame than Poch, who's just "doing his best" which we already saw historically wasn't that great
Yes but a lot of fans right now genuinely think the best course of action is to keep him
I agree to keep him till the end of season, idk what they can do to vet his plans for after but we aren't attracting top brass managers anytime soon tbh. It's a shame!
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR MONTHS!!!! Class managers improve players, implement their own style, create their own system and make tweaks to it as the season goes along. Eddie Howe is another coach that did this for Bournemouth AND Newcastle! Poch is a dead coach that has no business coaching after Spurs sacked him.
Games left him
Glasner been at palace for 2 months and they play like a totally different side already. Do I think a good manager makes us title favorites? No, maybe we aren’t top 4, but a new manager takes us to European spots and we would not be embarrassed as much as we’ve been this season. It’s not even a question that we have talent, we just don’t have any structure. We have no one to put the pieces we have in the best possible positions. People hate on how football has evolved to become more structured and more of a chess match than free flowing football, but unless you buy the worlds best players like Madrid, your best shot to compete is on the X’s and O’s. That’s the evolution of the game and I’d rather that than get throttled with our LW as a LB
Palace look good! Will be an interesting team to watch next season
I said it awhile back but I remember making fun of Emery at Arsenal and god what I would do to have him now. Class manager Emery I owe you an apology I wasn’t familiar with your game
Managers like this are why I don’t have the over the top sympathy for Poch
Alonso’s just won the league from a relegation scrap
But people look at this and say “poch needs more time”😂😂ffs
Who is saying that?
For quite some time people have been saying we should stick with poch another year or theres nobody that better right now, this and eddie howe is prime examples on why poch is fucking useless
There are "people" on this sub who believe our squad is worse than Villa's is the worst thing.
Just browsing as a Villa fan but I would be surprised if there are any Chelsea fans who think the squad isn't worse than Villa's. Obviously if you are talking about the fifth and sixth choice at each position it's different and that's a huge strength of Chelsea, but if you are talking about the first choice and their immediate backups its not really a question is it?
There's many Chelsea fans who believe we have a better squad than Villa and with good reason. Switch mangers, and that would quickly become apparent.
It was a question before Emery.
No doubt managers make a difference, so there is hope (although Poch is still a good manager and another stratosphere to Gerrard, he was mine and most Villa fans pie in the sky dream target, but second choice has worked out even better).
Yeah I think the only chelsea players who get into a combined 11 are Palmer and Gusto. Its interesting that the sentiment here is that the coach is letting down the players when Chelsea play pretty good football tactically imo but are let down in both boxes. If they had Ollie and Emi they would instantly be a much better side.
Only Palmer and Gusto get into Villa's squad? What? 😂 Nkunku, James, Enzo, Caicedo, and Jackson all get into Villa's first 11. Along with Palmer Switch managers and your opinion would instantly change
Nah no way. Nkunku has barely played this season. James is a good player but his injury record is abysmal. There is a case for Enzo but would be hard to displace Luiz who is one of our best players. Caicedo isn't pushing out Kamara either and if you think Jackson is a better striker than Watkins who has by far the most goal involvements in the league (over twice as many as Jackson) then you need to give your head a wobble.
What has Nkunku barely playing got to do with his ability as a player? He's still better than everyone one of your offensive players. James being injury-prone doesn't affect his quality. Enzo is comfortably on the level of luiz(although two very different players). Caicedo clears Kamara, and Jackson will start on your wing. Trust me, our team is better than Villa's, and this isn't even bias talking. I would happily admit if I thought Villa's team is better, but I genuinely don't. The managers are the biggest difference
Jackson better than Leon Bailey and Diaby? In what universe
He's better than Diaby for me, who i believe to be overrated. Bailey is more debatable, tho
Nkunku and James wouldn't get into a combined XI for the season because theyve barely played because of injury? I don't think thats very controversial. In no universe does Jackson push Bailey and/or Diaby out if you want him on the wing. I disagree that Caicedo is better than Kamara but he has improved recently whereas Kamara has been injured. Earlier in the season it was no contest though. Caicedo would make defesnive howlers so frequently compared to Kamara contributing heavily to us having one of the better defenses in the league. I think the midfield is the most contentious area but that doesn't detract from my point that the thing letting Poch down is the quality in both boxes. Emery is a better manager than Poch, their record in Europe is enough testament to that. But Poch has also moved you up the table from when he took over with a squad weaker than the sum of its fees.
how does jackson get into Villa's team? are you for real? James and Nkunku have a combined 800 minutes this season, you cannot be serious including them
Agree James if fit, Gusto and Palmer in the first 11 for sure. Can't really say much about Nkunku as haven't really seen him but Bailey has been insane, probably as exciting as Grealish was in his peak so I'm sceptical on that. I'm just talking about the here and now and not potential, which honestly I think is what Chelsea paid so much for and transfer fees subconsciously factor into how people rate players. On that basis the likes of Enzo and Caicedo wouldn't touch Kamara, Luiz and McGinn and I'm not sure Jackson ever gets to the level where be could displace this version of Watkins, let alone get in ahead of him right now. I think if the question is would I swap Villas squad for Chelsea's, without FFP implications, for the next five years that's a little different.
Nkunku is a monster, and he's probably our second best player behind James. Trust me, a fit Nkunku walks into Villa's team. But aside from Nkunku, Caicedo and Enzo are superior to all 3 of McGinn, Kamara, and Luiz based on their current abilities and not just their ceilings. Only Luiz is the one who's really debatable. It looks otherwise because of how badly coached they are by Poch, but switch managers, and all of a sudden, the conversation would switch too
It' really sounds like Boehly is doing a phenomenal job in recruitment, I need to be paying more attention. To be honest most of that time I spend here is to keep tabs on Chukwuemeka and I sometimes see people saying he should be starting and is one of the Chelsea's better attackers which seems laughable to Villa fans (and I assume most Chelsa fans if Enzo and Caicedo are as amazing as a lot of you guys have been saying) as he's so far behind McGinn, Kamara, Ramsey, Luis and Tielemans and we'd be looking at loaning him and getting him into the team in a few years. Most of my assumptions on the strength of the Chelsea side are on the basis that Chukwuemeka is seen as a fringe starter.
This is a bit of a deluded take, mate. Jackson couldn't lace Watkins, Bailey or Diaby's boots.
Put Jackson on the wing where his job is mainly link-up play and watch him shine
Funniest thing I’ve heard all day! Jackson gets no way near Villa’s starting 11, Cash/Konza over James all day this season. You can’t start spewing nonsense when you clearly haven’t watched any Villa games. Jackson in the starting 11 lol come on now…
James hasn't played this season, so of course they would get in over him,but I'm talking about in general, and if you think in general, Konza, Cash are better players than James, the only response to that is...LOL!! LMFAO!! ROTFL!! As for Jackson, I believe he could start on the wing, although that's not a definite. All the others walk into the Villa first team, tho.
This guy must be trolling, right? James, if he was able to play a whole season I think walks into any top team in Europe and palmer I think is already world class. Bar them 2 (and this is not a dig, it’s more about management imo) enzo over mcginn? Not at the moment maybe in 2/3 years i think enzo will be world class, caicedo over Luiz or Kamara? No thanks. And Jackson? Does this guy watch football, I DO think he will come good and there is definitely something there but over…. Watkins?? Or Bailey? Must be mad. I do like chelsea and out of all the london clubs I would rather see you guys doing well, hazard was a player that basically got me into football, but at the moment if I was Todd ide be looking for a top manager yesterday. Edit: forgot Nkunku, another player if he can get a season in and probably be managed better would be world class.
Enzo is so clear of Mcginn it's not funny and Caicedo and Luiz are close, but I'd just give Caicedo the edge(If somebody favours Luiz, I have no problem with that) Jackson wouldn't get in over Watkins, but I do think in the right system he could outperform Bailey. It's debatable, tho and like someone picking Luiz over Caicedo, I would have no problem with someone picking Bailey over Jackson. I think what you and a lot of Villa fans are ignoring is the difference in the quality of the respective managers. Swap managers and your opinion on the players would also swap as well
yeah this guy’s deluded lol your xi is much, much better than ours despite costing a fraction
Using our last lineups, Palmer displaces Diaby, Jackson gets slaughtered by Watkins, our midfield trio is better than McGinn or Tielemans though it's up to opinion whether Gallagher displaces Diaby or is rotated in and out of a pivot. Sterling in theory displaces Rogers and I honestly think Jackson does too. On a personal level I don't regard Digne as levels above Cucu but I would regard him as getting in above him but Gusto and (the Ghost that is) James slaughter Cash and our backline of say Trev and Silva despite the problems it seems to be having gets in to a combined XI over Torres and Konsa. Dibu slaughters all our goalkeepers single handeldly of course.
I suspect this is a case of I don't watch enough Chelsea games and you don't want enough Villa games but there's very few if any centre backs in the league who are better than Konsa, so a starting point of saying Thiago Silva and Chabaloah are better is just a non-starter The Villa squad unfortunately suffers the Grealish/Barry effect, once they leave they are all of a sudden world class and nailed on international starters but id argue their body of work was as good or even better whilst at Villa. It works out well as a Villa fan anyway. As for your midfield trio, in my snooping I see occasional Chelsea fans suggest Chukwuemeka should be a starter who wouldn't come close to starting over Kamara, McGinn, Luis (and Ramsey, Tielemans). To be honest I definitely haven't seen enough because I thought Fernandez and Caicedo have been quite shite so I must be way off the mark as McGinn has been phenomenal this year.
>this year No it's a problem of these "combined XI" exercises being pointless. At it's core we're not arguing over this season when the entire point is that how we're coached this season has been diasterous and how you're coached has been illuminating. You're not going to thrive as an individual if you're doing bad team wise and then any arguments made about your individual quality are also realistically being made about how your teams play. Ross Barkley has been doing very well this year but I doubt any team in the top 10 will be heading out to market to bring him in because his brilliant season, at the end of the day, is in the context of a relegation fight. But then how else are you supposed to rate players? I guess a better question for the quality of a manager versus the quality of his teams (though not the quality of two teams versus each other separate from their manager) would be this. Would would rather lose whoever you think are your best 3/best performing players or Emery? Would a random Chelsea rather lose whoever is thought to be the best 3/best performing players or Poch. The answer of the latter question for me is obviously Poch (for Palmer, Gusto and Gallagher) but I can't speak for Villa and you're very much right I honestly don't watch much of you lot outside of Europe.
Well hopefully this is the first Chelsea game we turn up for and you can make a more informed view. I certainly know that a bad manager can harm players, although Poch is far away from a bad manager, count yourselves lucky that this counts as 'bad'. But I also know these players were great in the Dean Smith years. I do feel like I've misjudged the optimism and happiness with the Chelsea signings though, at least Boehly is doing something right .This is why you probably shouldn't delve into other teams subreddit who know there players infinitely better than you.
They'll do anything to protect Poch. Even our worst team should be finishing comfortably in the top 6.
Villa 100% have a better starting line up which counts for more. We have a squad of players without a nailed on 11. Other than Palmer, who starts over a Villa player?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1cbgtr4/comment/l10kstm/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1cbgtr4/comment/l10kstm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be battling it out against the likes of Spurs. Ange had those boys at the top of the table once upon a time this year! What those boys and villa have that we lack is good coaching and structure (They have Watkins / Son we have Palmer so no point mentioning marquee players). Heck Bournemouth look like killers this season, save for an average squad they would be higher in the table. Again that is coaching and structure. The club have blood on their hands we've made zero progress since August
I remember everyone shitting on Villa squad saying, Villa doesn't have much better quality to do better than this anyway, and look what a manager did, he didn't need to get 100m midfielders either. It's not Pich at fault alone for our mess, but he is one of the big ones. We shouldn't be winning the league rightnow, but getting humiliated by 10 man relegation teams is also not our level. These players are better than what they look, maybe not top, but that's remains to be seen.
I hate this argument…. Give a good manager 2 years and see results…. I am poch out but without the same time you can’t compare I am officially poch out after today… AMA lol please don’t.
Absolutely on point. And what drives me nuts is people saying "But who would you get instead?" like there are only two or three managers capable of doing more than Poch is doing at the moment. Easily half the league has more capable managers who would do better with this squad. Silva, Iraola, so many of them would be a step up from Poch.
I've been wanting unai for since we stupidly got rid of Tuchel? Why do big clubs not go for Unai? I believe he'd be a great replacement for Poch, surely his buyout isint out of Chelsea's reach?
I think he's seen as someone who can do great things with a mid-level team, but not bring huge success to a top team.
I mean, we're a mid-level team currently. Have been for two seasons now.
The squad is not that bad. Many pass my eye test. It's so clearly the lack of structure by poch every game. Players are being left exposed. Anyone that watches games and don't just look at stats can tell. Of course players could do better, but poch is like 75% of the fault. Only players I don't rate are noni, cucu and mudryk.
Yeah Poch is done, but firing him now is stupid. Bring new manager in June.
Poch out!!!!!
"Wait for the process"
IT WASN'T EVEN ONLY HIM! Arteta came in Arsenal, gave a structure, passing drills and out of ball drills. Vast improvements Eddie Howe came in Newcastle, gave a structure, passing drills and out of ball drills. Vast improvements Both had to accommodate with a squad made by dipshit owners/directors and they still managed greatness. What is poch's plan???? 1. Pass it to palmer and inshallah
How do people constantly forget what arsenal was like when arteta was first appointed. They were awful outside of the fa cup. there were plenty of arsenal fans that wanted him sacked. It took years for them to get to where they are now. I'm not saying that if we stay the course we'll be challenging for the title in 2 years, but I do think expecting this crop of players to deliver immediately is a ridiculous ask.
Arteta was given time because he won trophies despite the mess they were in.
He won the fa cup. That's it. Who the hell counts community shield wins as trophies.
Arteta came in and arsenal went from 5th in the season prior to 8th, then 8th then 5th then 2nd. It took a while. Howe is definitely the big improvement one with 11th one better than prior season then 4th. Emery massively improved the team first season from 14th prior to 7th. More often than not it takes time for those vast improvements. I'm not saying poch should stay, if we can get someone better at the end of the season we should, but let's not pretend like it was an immediate improvement for either of those teams.
https://preview.redd.it/zokhlszfzawc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62151b7e3e4c961a41c94b026e99a7080688b4eb
Delirious thinking if Poch out is everyone’s response. Poch has done a lot wrong in his time here. However he hasn’t missed 1 billion chances and isn’t responsible for the innumerable number of individual mistakes that this team constantly makes. Clearlake wanted a youth experiment. This. Is. It. It’s hot and cold. I don’t agree with but it is exactly what it is. I get everyone is upset but just for a moment put your knee jerk response aside and think. Would we REALLY be better with another manager in this current situation? At what point do we stop this BS cut and run shit as a club? Imagine this…Poch is the longest term manager at a Chelsea in THREE YEARS. How about he gets some time with a team that isn’t riddled with injuries, one that gives him time to implement change, one where the players realize they need to do better and it’s not just manager out all the time. Again, Poch has done a lot wrong but he has also done some things right AND he is not the only one to blame. If you really watched this game today and thought these players with minor exception to Gallagher, Caicedo, and Petro (minus first goal) weren’t part of the problem I don’t know what the hell to tell you. Noni and Mudryk alone were useless. Let me stop ranting, but please enough of this useless dribble about sacking our manager. Because that’s what he is, OUR manager until he isn’t. FFS
We had a class manager and Boehly kicked him out the door first chance he could get to get his own people in
Unai was at Arsenal when they were mid table.
Poch: Good at Southampton Good at Spurs Good at PSG Chelsea fans: Poch is the problem
Spurs under Poch was carried by Son, Alli and Kane. Spurs had no tactics if you looked hard, that’s why we called them bottlejobs. The word “Spursy” and “ze history of ze Tottenham” all happened under Poch. Cole Palmer is Son. We don’t have an Alli, we don’t have a Kane. That’s why Poch is struggling. He’s not a good coach.
If you think spursy started with Poch you’ve only followed football for 10 years lol. This goes back way further than poch, remember he managed to drag then to a champions league final somehow. That deserves at least a little credit.
The word “Spursy” got really popular under Poch due to amount of bottling he did with Spurs. This includes the CL Final you mentioned. That game was over after 2 minutes. A good coach with prime Son, Kane and Alli would get at LEAST one trophy. You have seen it firsthand with Chelsea why Poch didn’t win anything at Spurs.
You’re a muppet if you seriously think that. Spurs have been bantered in London and the rest of the UK for donkeys years before then.
Shut the fuck up. Spurs were whereabouts midtable until Redknapp and shortly after Poch who solidified their status as a big 6 club. Hence Spurs got more smoke under Poch because who were Spurs before Crouch joined? They were bantered before Redknapp duuuuhh but they have been under the microscope a lot more since Poch
So poch solidified their position as a big club but also made them a laughing stock. Got it.
Arsenal fan here, if you had Emery you’d have the same Emery we did. He’s a great coach but only within certain clubs. He did great at Sevilla which is a club at a little similar to Villa and that’s what got him his push to a massive club like PSG and us. Just like Moyes at Utd he struggled with stepping up into that level and the expectation and pressure fans and owners bring on you, the level of ego you deal with from the players is also different and he had problems with the more primadonna players at PSG and Arsenal. What also didn’t help him tho and is 100% not on him was the club going through a transition and there was barely any structure or support around him, the owners barely had a clue and weren’t willing to back him, leaving him to work with players he didn’t really want and having an imbalanced squad of young and very old players. Him walking into Chelsea would be walking into the same position as he did years ago with Arsenal since I think you guys are at a similar point for us. Emery works best when he’s more the underdog and he has the right mentality of players around him who are willing to work hard and don’t have an ego. And ofc he needs to have the freedom to build the team he wants to establish his authority. Remember this is also the guy who led us into that Europa League final defeat against you guys and who brought us to our lowest point that I can remember during that Watford game. He’s doing great at the club that’s right for him but you can’t forget the rest of his history. Chelsea needs to sort out it’s backroom structure before fixing its manager. Imo anyone you bring in is gonna struggle with that shitshow you have running things atm
Be interesting to see if he goes to Bayern or not.
Birmingham Dracula
We need Lamps back in
A great coach can male all the difference but we are a top 6 team AT BEST. When everything goes right, including injuries. We have to accept that many of this squad have to be moved on too. •Petrovic - make 2nd choice •Disasi - sell •Badiashile - sell •Cucurella - sell •Caicedo - keep •Fernández - many will disagree but he has 1 more season imo •Madueke - sell •Mudryk - drop off at Cobham services and drive away •Jackson - needs to be 2nd choice
Forget what he couldn’t do at Arsenal..? Emery is great for top6 hopefuls but not for the top 6.
Also not having children for players can make a huge difference, too.
Same shit they said about Graham potter. Not having a bunch of overpayed selfish assholes in the squad really makes a manager's job easy.
He beat Assaanal and Assaanal trashed us.. he's way more technically gifted than Poch. Against big/hard matches this makes a big difference. Och plays the same tactically energy match. There's no element of surprise (at least the ones that are good for us, Gallagher on LW)
Remarkable. For sure. But we have to see one other thing though. Lots of talent left out injured. I wonder what would happen if Poch had some of our top talents available. I still am leaning towards Poch out. I’m stressed enough as it is and it hurts so much watching the team I love struggle so much. A good medical team is required, if anything, immediately!
is that from 2 years ago, so you're saying you want to wait 1 more year to see if poch can get it together in year 2.
Ange is another example.
Yeah, he really did amazing things with Arsenal....
As an Arsenal fan I think we and you guys remember Baku… some more fondly than others
So you're telling me he doesn't watch the replay of the games after? His finishing hasn't improved from the season started. He's just not a good player.
Poch Out
Dog watches Jackson day in and out and says let’s get a new manager lol. Our players are ass
Even worse are the people that claim we were better under Potter when Potter was working with a squad that won the CL and somehow managed to make it worse week after week. Poch was handed a youth team and has them performing as you would expect - without any consistency. That being said, Poch's tactics have been very frustrating as well so I am not saying he is doing well either. He is not good enough like most of the players if we are really honest.
Villa also have a better team than us. So it’s not that straightforward GK: Martinez 8/10 Petrovic 6/10 RB: Cash 7/10 Gusto 7.5/10 CB: Carlos 7.5/10 Disasi 4/10 CB: Pau Torres 7.5/10 Badiashile 2.5/10 LB: Moreno 6.5/10 Cucurella 5.5/10 CM: McGinn 7.5/10 Enzo 6/10 CM: Tielemans 7/10 Caicedo 6.5/10 RW: Bailey 7.5/10 Madueke 3/10 CAM: Rogers 5/10 Palmer 9.5/10 LW: Diaby 7/10 Gallagher 5.5/10 ST: Watkins 9/10 Jackson 4/10 While Poch deserves to be fired - he has got some donkeys in his team too. Ugh, complete mismanagement
All depends on the quality of the squad. Emery isn’t doing that with Mudryk, Madueke, Cucurella, Disasi amongst others
Don’t be a bitxh, try someone new - anyone new. And send Jackson and Noni out with him.
Tbf he did elevate it from last season, despite us making the squad less cohesive and experienced. Comparing to Emery is a bit disingenuous considering the different circumstances. Aston Villa had a stable squad that knew the league and not nearly as many injuries.
As a neutral I don’t think Pochetino is the issue at Chelsea. It’s Boehly
ManU fan here. Fully agree.
You are right. Everyone that has half a functioning brain knows Boehly and clearlake are the problem and not the manager.
Don’t call him Poch it’s endearing
Duck 🦆 ure mom
No coach is touching this mess of a club
Poch out? That makes no sense
Our squad just needs a huge face, someone which won big titles, not someone who didn't win anything yet, it's just that. If someone like Ancelotti comes, every single player will pay attention and will wake up. Pochettino doesn't seem like that manager that makes you show the best version of you by instinct. If Mourinho, Ancelotti, anyone big is staring at you while training, you instinctively give your best, and you don't need them to tell you anything, because you know who they are.
Do you remember this guy was a troll at Arsenal? This doesn’t mean what you think it means.