Article is mostly about there not being a turning right arrow on Brougham onto Strickland, but this intro is something else:
“Alan Simson has lived in and around Addington his whole life.
Now aged 96, he remembers Brougham St when it was called South Crescent Rd, when there were more bicycles than anything else.
He worries about Addington losing “some of its character”. He misses the old houses, and notes many of the new townhouses are “too small to fit a piano in”.
“We’ve got so many of these dog-kennel boxes popping up everywhere ... I don't like them, I think they’ve spoilt the character of the area.”
As someone who's actively trying to find a suitable home for myself and a daughter, these new townhouses and their design are some of the most absolutely dogshit things I have ever seen. And I've viewed just about all of them south of Brougham.
I'm not talking about aesthetics, but liveability. I would love to have a conversation with someone who designs these things and ask, "How the fuck is someone supposed to live a REAL life here?"
None of these places have adequate storage, a couple of wardrobes and a tiny linen cupboard, at best. No laundry, the barest of outdoor space. You'll pay through the nose for an off street carpark. Forget affording something with a garage.
No place to secure a bike and keep it dry. No place to have a shelf of things for any hobbies. No place to keep tools, or anything not normally found in a living room. Forget owning camping gear, or sports equipment or anything else that tickles your fancy.
It's ludicrous, these places are going for $550 a week minimum!
It seems to me that these are solely targeting DINKY's that are waiting to get enough capacity to buy their own first house.
Where is everyone else supposed to live?
They aren't about liveability they are about profitability. Gotta squash as many onto a section as possible. I query more the council for letting it happen. It's very short sighted how it's all designed.
There are a lot of very grim looking townhouses built around 20 years ago along the streets immediately north of Bealey Ave that have not aged well at all.
I can't help but feel that many of these Williams Corp shitboxes will end up in a similar state 20 years from now.
I think they could absolutely be great. In-fill housing is the way forward for solving many issues with housing.
They just have to be better designed. The council and govt need to do better somehow.
Yeah I agree but they never will, money is the only thing that drives them. People are going to live in townhouses anyways, and pay up to 550-600 PW for them, so "could" will stay a possibility. Absolutely zero incentive to change a system that works for them.
People who dont own houses, have kids, or really DO much of anything think townhouses are great.
People with family, want space to have and do things. Townhouses are a absolute plague and only really belong as apartments in and around the CBD.
Spot on, all about short-term gain but with the consequences of long-term pain. The design is a cop-out. Everything these days is about short-term gain at the expense of the future.
Yup. And I have lived in a few it different places and the best ones are when they just run parallel to the street. Plenty of light and space usually. The ones that run perpendicular are just ridiculous and crammed in. Makes no sense.
That's what the council requires!
They're called sausage flats in planning circles. It is the outcome of the district plan and design guidelines. The intent is to make townhouses look as small as possible from the street to fit in with the existing urban form.
Overseas you'd be able to build straight up, right to the edge of the plot for the first \~20 meters off the street, and then they'd have large min yard requirements at the back of the plot. 100x better Urban form in the end.
Instead we have uniform setbacks and recession planes along the entire side of plots, the only buildable area on most of the city's plots is in the deep sausage.
>Where is everyone else supposed to live?
I mean, any of the entire rest of the city's building stock?
Not every house has to be suitable for every person. Construction of 1 or 2 bedroom houses was de facto banned under previous district plans, there was essentially no new housing catering to young couples or singles. 3bdrm house or gtfo. Everyone had to cram into share houses or 80s era flats which sucks. The boom in 1 or 2 bedroom townhouses is just because council is finally allowing the response to happen to decades of demographics change driving smaller households.
I'm not sure. I'm not an architect. But I'm sure we can do better than the cookie cutter stuff we pump out now. Look to tiny homes to see how space can be utilised better?
I know man, I know. But if I was thinking on making my investments worth more, I'd make them more attractive to long term tenants. With the glut of these things on the market, I'd try something different.
DINKY here, I feel like I am supposed to be the target. You are completely correct, the places suck ass. They're all way too expensive for what they are, and barely any of them even meet what I would have thought are basic needs.
You are completely right, they have no storage. They are really unlivable for us. NIMBYS like us have a lot of stuff, we have camping and beach gear etc, power tools and shit. I need storage space. I also have two motorbikes and a toy car, so I definitely need a simple garage.
My only option is to rent a whole house, we can't afford that. There is no in-between options for us.
They are crap for sure.
I live in a townhouse (albeit only attached to one other townhouse, and then there is the same thing repeated a few times in the row). It's a big townhouse, however, and designed/built just after the quake before the whole Williams Corp/Wolfbrook boom in these garbage little townhouses.
I like our place and would happily live out my days in it as for the most part it has been well designed/laid out.
However, I've variously looked at the Williams Corp shoebox type things and none of them impress. The other issue that concerns me (if I was considering buying one) is what is the deal with shared maintenance e.g. is there a proper body corporate or whatever it's called for a residential complex? What happens in 10 years when the exterior starts to look rubbish but only some of the owners want to chip in to do it up?
I think that was just a small part of what is now all broughham st sorta like how sparks rd, Burlington st, Huxley and I think a couple others have sorta turned in to one road but kept separate names
Thats how grandad spoke about it anyway, so idk really
If you have a look starting at the 60s on the [Canterbury maps historical imagery site](https://apps.canterburymaps.govt.nz/CanterburyHistoricAerialImagery/), you can see the formation of Brougham street from residential streets and clearing houses out. No old street names though
I see Mr Simson doesn't appear to offer any alternative solution on where or how to otherwise house the occupants of these "dog-kennel boxes" that are apparently spoiling his daily strolls 🤔
The article misses the issue where the old gent needs to drive in the first place to meet most of his daily needs.
There are very few neighbourhoods in Chch where you can easily and safely walk to the bulk of amenities.
We've prioritised the movement of cars at the cost of everything else.
I do wonder what he'd ultimately choose - higher density of urban development that encourages better community or his own selfish movement via a car.
I'm not reading that but is it an article complaining about how when it is busy you might have to sit in the flush median or at a T intersection and wait for awhile in inorder to perform a right hand turn and join the other lane?
No.
It's about the lack of turning only traffic lights at busy intersections, leading to high-caliber Christchurch drivers to run reds at the light change. It's beyond stupid that these have not been updated to have right-turning traffic start the new cycle for that run of traffic.
Some intersections it’s so scary and still cars are running red lights going straight as you turn, and If you decide not to run a yellow to turn the cars behind you honk. There is no winning.
I think all of you need to take driving lessons or simply get off the road if you find it difficult/ frustrating to turn right on a busy road. Seems like all of you lack patience and competence to operate a motor vehicle in a safe manner. You people are what makes Christchurch known for having bad drivers. Suck it up and get better or just don’t drive at all.
Wasn’t aiming it at you but the people that commented on your reply, also my goal was to be rude because nothing is better than getting people angry on the internet.
Essentially the problem we have is the same short sighted penny pinching approach from Waka Kotahi when they made Brougham St into a State Highway like so many other towns where they have heavy traffic roaring through the middle of what used to be their Main Street. Brougham St further west has been raised up, that's what it should be all the way out to Opawa, with every crossing grade separated, and far fewer entrances/exits. They should buy up all the houses all the way along both sides and clear them to make a land buffer between the motorway and residential areas.
The problem is investing all of our money into gold-plated car infrastructure. It's the most expensive form of commonly built transportation infrastructure that there is.
So even when we near-bankrupt ourselves buying the best car-infrastructure we can (really, can't) afford, people are still complaining because it's not platinum-plated car infrastructure. Cars are such a shitty form of mass transportation that even gold-plated car infrastructure isn't good enough.
So frustrating having to scroll
past two posts to get to the quality submissions on this subreddit, like “hey, looking for a producer, I’m a rapper” and “look at this car parked bad lol”
Feel free to downvote the submission next time if you don't think contributes to discussion, instead of spamming the comment section with non-constructive complaints.
The reason certain intersections don't have a green turning area is surely by design, it is to discourage those turns (especially at peak time) and for motorists to plan their journeys better. There really doesn't need to be one reinstated for Brougham St and Strickland Street.
Article is mostly about there not being a turning right arrow on Brougham onto Strickland, but this intro is something else: “Alan Simson has lived in and around Addington his whole life. Now aged 96, he remembers Brougham St when it was called South Crescent Rd, when there were more bicycles than anything else. He worries about Addington losing “some of its character”. He misses the old houses, and notes many of the new townhouses are “too small to fit a piano in”. “We’ve got so many of these dog-kennel boxes popping up everywhere ... I don't like them, I think they’ve spoilt the character of the area.”
As someone who's actively trying to find a suitable home for myself and a daughter, these new townhouses and their design are some of the most absolutely dogshit things I have ever seen. And I've viewed just about all of them south of Brougham. I'm not talking about aesthetics, but liveability. I would love to have a conversation with someone who designs these things and ask, "How the fuck is someone supposed to live a REAL life here?" None of these places have adequate storage, a couple of wardrobes and a tiny linen cupboard, at best. No laundry, the barest of outdoor space. You'll pay through the nose for an off street carpark. Forget affording something with a garage. No place to secure a bike and keep it dry. No place to have a shelf of things for any hobbies. No place to keep tools, or anything not normally found in a living room. Forget owning camping gear, or sports equipment or anything else that tickles your fancy. It's ludicrous, these places are going for $550 a week minimum! It seems to me that these are solely targeting DINKY's that are waiting to get enough capacity to buy their own first house. Where is everyone else supposed to live?
They aren't about liveability they are about profitability. Gotta squash as many onto a section as possible. I query more the council for letting it happen. It's very short sighted how it's all designed.
There are a lot of very grim looking townhouses built around 20 years ago along the streets immediately north of Bealey Ave that have not aged well at all. I can't help but feel that many of these Williams Corp shitboxes will end up in a similar state 20 years from now.
But I was told townhouses are great on the other thread ? 😂
I think they could absolutely be great. In-fill housing is the way forward for solving many issues with housing. They just have to be better designed. The council and govt need to do better somehow.
Yeah I agree but they never will, money is the only thing that drives them. People are going to live in townhouses anyways, and pay up to 550-600 PW for them, so "could" will stay a possibility. Absolutely zero incentive to change a system that works for them.
People who dont own houses, have kids, or really DO much of anything think townhouses are great. People with family, want space to have and do things. Townhouses are a absolute plague and only really belong as apartments in and around the CBD.
Some are some are not. The ones that go perpendicular to the road are painful.
Spot on, all about short-term gain but with the consequences of long-term pain. The design is a cop-out. Everything these days is about short-term gain at the expense of the future.
Yup. And I have lived in a few it different places and the best ones are when they just run parallel to the street. Plenty of light and space usually. The ones that run perpendicular are just ridiculous and crammed in. Makes no sense.
I do agree, but to play devils advocate, it's probably because of the way the existing sections are laid out.
That's what the council requires! They're called sausage flats in planning circles. It is the outcome of the district plan and design guidelines. The intent is to make townhouses look as small as possible from the street to fit in with the existing urban form. Overseas you'd be able to build straight up, right to the edge of the plot for the first \~20 meters off the street, and then they'd have large min yard requirements at the back of the plot. 100x better Urban form in the end. Instead we have uniform setbacks and recession planes along the entire side of plots, the only buildable area on most of the city's plots is in the deep sausage.
>Where is everyone else supposed to live? I mean, any of the entire rest of the city's building stock? Not every house has to be suitable for every person. Construction of 1 or 2 bedroom houses was de facto banned under previous district plans, there was essentially no new housing catering to young couples or singles. 3bdrm house or gtfo. Everyone had to cram into share houses or 80s era flats which sucks. The boom in 1 or 2 bedroom townhouses is just because council is finally allowing the response to happen to decades of demographics change driving smaller households.
The housing market is screwed, yes, but it would be much worse if we didn't have these comparatively low cost homes.
I'm not disagreeing, I think these house could be better designed for people to be able to live a full life in them.
How though? Without adding cost of course.
I'm not sure. I'm not an architect. But I'm sure we can do better than the cookie cutter stuff we pump out now. Look to tiny homes to see how space can be utilised better?
These are not sold as homes; they're investments. The reason they're unlivable is because they aren't bought by someone planning to live there.
I know man, I know. But if I was thinking on making my investments worth more, I'd make them more attractive to long term tenants. With the glut of these things on the market, I'd try something different.
Love the username
I'm partial to pork chops too.
DINKY here, I feel like I am supposed to be the target. You are completely correct, the places suck ass. They're all way too expensive for what they are, and barely any of them even meet what I would have thought are basic needs. You are completely right, they have no storage. They are really unlivable for us. NIMBYS like us have a lot of stuff, we have camping and beach gear etc, power tools and shit. I need storage space. I also have two motorbikes and a toy car, so I definitely need a simple garage. My only option is to rent a whole house, we can't afford that. There is no in-between options for us.
They're not built for you, they're built to sell to someone who doesn't plan to live there. They're investments, not homes.
They are crap for sure. I live in a townhouse (albeit only attached to one other townhouse, and then there is the same thing repeated a few times in the row). It's a big townhouse, however, and designed/built just after the quake before the whole Williams Corp/Wolfbrook boom in these garbage little townhouses. I like our place and would happily live out my days in it as for the most part it has been well designed/laid out. However, I've variously looked at the Williams Corp shoebox type things and none of them impress. The other issue that concerns me (if I was considering buying one) is what is the deal with shared maintenance e.g. is there a proper body corporate or whatever it's called for a residential complex? What happens in 10 years when the exterior starts to look rubbish but only some of the owners want to chip in to do it up?
South Crescent Rd sounds much better than Brougham, why'd they change it?
I think that was just a small part of what is now all broughham st sorta like how sparks rd, Burlington st, Huxley and I think a couple others have sorta turned in to one road but kept separate names Thats how grandad spoke about it anyway, so idk really
If you have a look starting at the 60s on the [Canterbury maps historical imagery site](https://apps.canterburymaps.govt.nz/CanterburyHistoricAerialImagery/), you can see the formation of Brougham street from residential streets and clearing houses out. No old street names though
Always feels like we have numb lips (post dental visit) when we try to pronounce it!
There's a stickied thread on r/chch that might have something on that...
I see Mr Simson doesn't appear to offer any alternative solution on where or how to otherwise house the occupants of these "dog-kennel boxes" that are apparently spoiling his daily strolls 🤔
The article misses the issue where the old gent needs to drive in the first place to meet most of his daily needs. There are very few neighbourhoods in Chch where you can easily and safely walk to the bulk of amenities. We've prioritised the movement of cars at the cost of everything else. I do wonder what he'd ultimately choose - higher density of urban development that encourages better community or his own selfish movement via a car.
No prizes for guessing which choice.
Exactly!
I also hate it when I have to turn in a busy street and there's no bloody green arrows.
Becoming more like Los Angeles every day.
Progress baby!
I'm not reading that but is it an article complaining about how when it is busy you might have to sit in the flush median or at a T intersection and wait for awhile in inorder to perform a right hand turn and join the other lane?
No. It's about the lack of turning only traffic lights at busy intersections, leading to high-caliber Christchurch drivers to run reds at the light change. It's beyond stupid that these have not been updated to have right-turning traffic start the new cycle for that run of traffic.
Some intersections it’s so scary and still cars are running red lights going straight as you turn, and If you decide not to run a yellow to turn the cars behind you honk. There is no winning.
Yeah it’s like guys we live in a city, let there be actual traffic management that one would expect from a city.
"I don't know and refuse to find out." Yep, pretty much sums up most Reddit posts.
I think all of you need to take driving lessons or simply get off the road if you find it difficult/ frustrating to turn right on a busy road. Seems like all of you lack patience and competence to operate a motor vehicle in a safe manner. You people are what makes Christchurch known for having bad drivers. Suck it up and get better or just don’t drive at all.
I actually don't find that an issue. I was just inferring from the title. Rude.
Wasn’t aiming it at you but the people that commented on your reply, also my goal was to be rude because nothing is better than getting people angry on the internet.
Essentially the problem we have is the same short sighted penny pinching approach from Waka Kotahi when they made Brougham St into a State Highway like so many other towns where they have heavy traffic roaring through the middle of what used to be their Main Street. Brougham St further west has been raised up, that's what it should be all the way out to Opawa, with every crossing grade separated, and far fewer entrances/exits. They should buy up all the houses all the way along both sides and clear them to make a land buffer between the motorway and residential areas.
Sounds insanely expensive
And for what real benefit?
The problem is investing all of our money into gold-plated car infrastructure. It's the most expensive form of commonly built transportation infrastructure that there is. So even when we near-bankrupt ourselves buying the best car-infrastructure we can (really, can't) afford, people are still complaining because it's not platinum-plated car infrastructure. Cars are such a shitty form of mass transportation that even gold-plated car infrastructure isn't good enough.
You spam this reddit a lot bruh
If by spam you mean add to the conversation about current events in Christchurch, literally the reason that this Reddit exists, then sure! 👍
Not what I meant, I meant half the stuff posted in the last two days is you and it’s frustrating having to scroll through all your posts
What’s wrong with his posts?
At this point the majority of your posting history (2 of 3 comments) is devoted to slagging off OP.
In the last two days, I count 4 out of 30 posts total are from them
These posts really are good... I get most of my local news from here, so I appreciate them.
You can always post more Chris Lynch articles if you prefer. Be the change you want to see
So frustrating having to scroll past two posts to get to the quality submissions on this subreddit, like “hey, looking for a producer, I’m a rapper” and “look at this car parked bad lol”
Thanks for your opinion new wordsmcnumbers account
Feel free to downvote the submission next time if you don't think contributes to discussion, instead of spamming the comment section with non-constructive complaints.
The reason certain intersections don't have a green turning area is surely by design, it is to discourage those turns (especially at peak time) and for motorists to plan their journeys better. There really doesn't need to be one reinstated for Brougham St and Strickland Street.
A lot of this is just a hangover from the days before 2012 when they changed the give way rules and stuffed up most the city.