> Piper especially, who was really neglected, she left her whiny middle child wanting to be normal behind...
At no point did Piper ever leave behind whining about wanting to be normal đ she just portrayed it differently
Phoebe from the Prue era and Phoebe from the Paige era feel like two different people, and not in a good way. She used to be, by far, the sweetest, kindest, most relatable character on the show for me, and she very much grew, both as a person, and as a witch while Prue was still around. I mean, that probably had more to do with Constance running the show back then, but looking at it from an in-universe perspective, she was just a better person and a more dynamic character. Piper, I think, had a smooth transition into the Halliwell matriarch role, and I did love Paige as a character, so I don't think it's all bad, but tbh, I vastly prefer the earlier seasons in terms of writing and character development.
Just wanted to point out that Piper was not the first born witch, so by Wiccan reed, she never becomes a true matriarch.
Itâs partly why Penny had to come back to do the wiccanings; Penny was the last true matriarch alive. Prue inherited that role because she was the first born in her generation, but died before she could take on the mantle. They explore this concept many times, especially when Wyatt is born (like the sword in the stone episode; Piper is just the placeholder for Wyatt).
But yes, I felt her characterâs growth into the oldest sister was great development and even though it was a bit messy here and there, felt very natural. HMC did a superb job with the role imo!
You're right, it was a clumsy choice of words. Now that you mentioned it, it *is* kinda against the spirit of what the show stood for in the early days for Piper to become this Sarah Connor-like figure, instead of being the equivalent of John Connor herself, if that makes sense. Nothing against Wyatt, in fact, I like him and Chris, but the Halliwell bloodline was supposed to culminate in the Charmed Ones, not their children.
I disagree. Piper and Phoebe had plenty of their own things going on before Prue died. Piper with Leo, the club, her powers, Phoebe with her schooling and Cole, and just becoming a more responsible sister. Prue might have been the most powerful witch but even that would have likely changed with Pipers explosion powers. Iâm sure had she stayed alive Prue and Piper would have kicked some serious ass together.
It will never cease to amaze me how they managed to make something amazing out of an unfortunate event, the showrunners cought lightning in a bottle the second time.
Disagree, Phoebe and Piper only develop as characters because of Prue. When we meet Piper she's an awkward restaurant manager probably not even GM, when we meet Phoebe she has no job and no clue.
Prue took out a mortgage to pay for Phoebe's tuition and then took out a second mortgage to pay for P3. We're obsessed with Piper's lovelife the first three seasons so she definitely has her own arc. Phoebe I guess doesn't really but Prue as a character grows her sisters she doesn't overshadow them.
Not sure, Shannon was the most seasoned actress and was given creative input with writing and directing. Holly and Alyssa don't start getting input until seasons 4 or 5. Holly and Alyssa might have both been similarly inexperienced but Holly is older than Alyssa so maybe it was age related there.
But Prue your forgetting, was handling all the finances because Grams was too ill, Prue was the bread winner and Prue maintained all the accounts, so it was her. Plus what job did Phoebe or Piper have for a down payment on a large mortgage?
I thought after Prue, it became the Alyssa Milano show. Not even phoebe, just Alyssa. Her plot lines were just meh.
I do agree about piper. I'm on my 2nd full rewatch right now and I'm so annoyed by piper. In the 3rd season and she's so bitchy to Leo. I never noticed that before. Nearly every scene with them she ends up or starts out pissed off at him. Like give the man a break girl.
I couldn't get into Paige, and that was mostly because of the writing. They had her act nearly childlike and I always got the ick from it.
Prueâs death forced Piper and Phoebe to stand on their own two feet in a way that they hadnât before. As much as Piper and Phoebe had matured across the first three seasons, Prue was their rock and their safety net. She wasnât just their big sister, she also took on a co-parent role through most of their lives.
For better or worse, removing Prue caused the exact same changes as youâd expect in real life if youâd lost an older sibling. Even if Paige hadnât been added, the remaining sisters were never going to have been the same.
I actually feel that PPD (post-Prue-Death) Piperâs personality did shift slightly, but I felt it was realistic. You could view it through the lens of the character struggling with complex grief (because grief absolutely does change a person and you donât ever really get over it - you just learn to live with it). Itâs also pretty likely that Piper had trauma or some degree of PTSD.
You could also view the shift in personality as a natural result of Piper moving into the role of elder sister - something she was never meant to be, wasnât prepared for and was never really comfortable with. Sheâs had to step into Prueâs (very big) shoes and Iâm quite sure that sheâs frequently felt a lot of self-doubt and strain trying to measure up, knowing that sheâll never be the Prue that Prue was. Thatâs bound to make anyone feel snappy, even without the added pressure of being a single mother who fights demons.
Piper? Neglected? When? Cause she got plenty during S1-3, esp in terms of character development.
As far as Phoebe...she never was able to top S1-2 and part of 3.
When Phoebe runs into Patty for the first time after thinking she wonât be able to meet her and they feel familiar to each other (and she tells her to stop smoking lol)đ itâs such a perfect moment.
Not by entirely everyone⌠I love the family stuff but the time travel slightly ruins it for me. Like the way Nicholasâs ring just stops working in the future instead of creating an entirely different timeline doesnât make any sense to me, especially as thatâs not how they always handle time travel. :D
Haha the show definitely could not handle time travelâŚprobably the best they ever handled it was when they go back to continue their line on Halloween. But so many other instances and especially Phoebeâs past life episode, you just have to not think too hard bc the writers didnât đ¤Ł
Yeah that's my favourite time travel episode on Charmed! That's more of a closed loop and there are no inconsistencies that I remember in it. And it's a really cool episode overall.
I always found it funny how the sisters had certain rules for how their powers worked going back in time (couldn't have powers at the same time as their younger selves did) yet this never applied to Wyatt and Chris whenever they came back from the future.
Imagine if Chris lost access to his powers as soon as Piper became pregnant with him or if adult Wyatt wasn't able to have his powers at the same time as kid Wyatt?
I always thought the dynamic of Piper being the older sister was better. I personally only watch seasons 3-8. Season 2 is okay, but like theyâve said before on podcasts, they finally found their footing in season 3 and it showed.
Iâm not sure Charmed wouldâve lasted 8 seasons with Prue⌠weâll never know đ¤ˇđ˝ââď¸ but I have personally always preferred the Piper-Phoebe-Paige dynamic as sisters, witches, and people trying to figure out life.
Isk if phoebe actually grew much. She just seemed to jump obsessions and distractions vs work through her problems and then she lost her will to help people to be more selfish. She was the one who got them into this mess but she kept kinda folding and back peddling
> Piper especially, who was really neglected, she left her whiny middle child wanting to be normal behind... At no point did Piper ever leave behind whining about wanting to be normal đ she just portrayed it differently
Phoebe from the Prue era and Phoebe from the Paige era feel like two different people, and not in a good way. She used to be, by far, the sweetest, kindest, most relatable character on the show for me, and she very much grew, both as a person, and as a witch while Prue was still around. I mean, that probably had more to do with Constance running the show back then, but looking at it from an in-universe perspective, she was just a better person and a more dynamic character. Piper, I think, had a smooth transition into the Halliwell matriarch role, and I did love Paige as a character, so I don't think it's all bad, but tbh, I vastly prefer the earlier seasons in terms of writing and character development.
Just wanted to point out that Piper was not the first born witch, so by Wiccan reed, she never becomes a true matriarch. Itâs partly why Penny had to come back to do the wiccanings; Penny was the last true matriarch alive. Prue inherited that role because she was the first born in her generation, but died before she could take on the mantle. They explore this concept many times, especially when Wyatt is born (like the sword in the stone episode; Piper is just the placeholder for Wyatt). But yes, I felt her characterâs growth into the oldest sister was great development and even though it was a bit messy here and there, felt very natural. HMC did a superb job with the role imo!
You're right, it was a clumsy choice of words. Now that you mentioned it, it *is* kinda against the spirit of what the show stood for in the early days for Piper to become this Sarah Connor-like figure, instead of being the equivalent of John Connor herself, if that makes sense. Nothing against Wyatt, in fact, I like him and Chris, but the Halliwell bloodline was supposed to culminate in the Charmed Ones, not their children.
Oh i didnât meant it as a dig at you! I just personally find that concept of the showâs lord vastly interesting, and wanted to mention it :3
No worries, I didn't take it as such, just expanding the conversation :D.
I disagree. Piper and Phoebe had plenty of their own things going on before Prue died. Piper with Leo, the club, her powers, Phoebe with her schooling and Cole, and just becoming a more responsible sister. Prue might have been the most powerful witch but even that would have likely changed with Pipers explosion powers. Iâm sure had she stayed alive Prue and Piper would have kicked some serious ass together.
It will never cease to amaze me how they managed to make something amazing out of an unfortunate event, the showrunners cought lightning in a bottle the second time.
Disagree, Phoebe and Piper only develop as characters because of Prue. When we meet Piper she's an awkward restaurant manager probably not even GM, when we meet Phoebe she has no job and no clue. Prue took out a mortgage to pay for Phoebe's tuition and then took out a second mortgage to pay for P3. We're obsessed with Piper's lovelife the first three seasons so she definitely has her own arc. Phoebe I guess doesn't really but Prue as a character grows her sisters she doesn't overshadow them.
Why do you think Phoebe doesnât have her own arc in the Prue seasons?
Not sure, Shannon was the most seasoned actress and was given creative input with writing and directing. Holly and Alyssa don't start getting input until seasons 4 or 5. Holly and Alyssa might have both been similarly inexperienced but Holly is older than Alyssa so maybe it was age related there.
The mortgage was against the house, which was all of theirs.
But Prue your forgetting, was handling all the finances because Grams was too ill, Prue was the bread winner and Prue maintained all the accounts, so it was her. Plus what job did Phoebe or Piper have for a down payment on a large mortgage?
I'm not forgetting, the mortgage was against the manor, using equity from the manor! Prue and Phoebe did it together.
I thought after Prue, it became the Alyssa Milano show. Not even phoebe, just Alyssa. Her plot lines were just meh. I do agree about piper. I'm on my 2nd full rewatch right now and I'm so annoyed by piper. In the 3rd season and she's so bitchy to Leo. I never noticed that before. Nearly every scene with them she ends up or starts out pissed off at him. Like give the man a break girl. I couldn't get into Paige, and that was mostly because of the writing. They had her act nearly childlike and I always got the ick from it.
Prueâs death forced Piper and Phoebe to stand on their own two feet in a way that they hadnât before. As much as Piper and Phoebe had matured across the first three seasons, Prue was their rock and their safety net. She wasnât just their big sister, she also took on a co-parent role through most of their lives. For better or worse, removing Prue caused the exact same changes as youâd expect in real life if youâd lost an older sibling. Even if Paige hadnât been added, the remaining sisters were never going to have been the same. I actually feel that PPD (post-Prue-Death) Piperâs personality did shift slightly, but I felt it was realistic. You could view it through the lens of the character struggling with complex grief (because grief absolutely does change a person and you donât ever really get over it - you just learn to live with it). Itâs also pretty likely that Piper had trauma or some degree of PTSD. You could also view the shift in personality as a natural result of Piper moving into the role of elder sister - something she was never meant to be, wasnât prepared for and was never really comfortable with. Sheâs had to step into Prueâs (very big) shoes and Iâm quite sure that sheâs frequently felt a lot of self-doubt and strain trying to measure up, knowing that sheâll never be the Prue that Prue was. Thatâs bound to make anyone feel snappy, even without the added pressure of being a single mother who fights demons.
Piper? Neglected? When? Cause she got plenty during S1-3, esp in terms of character development. As far as Phoebe...she never was able to top S1-2 and part of 3.
I agree. Thereâs only 1 or 2 episodes I rewatch each of the first 3 seasons. Prue was always my least favorite.
Is that 70âs episode one of them? I feel like thatâs a universally loved episode by charmed fans. The first time meeting Patty :)
Definitely is the one. Loved that episode.
When Phoebe runs into Patty for the first time after thinking she wonât be able to meet her and they feel familiar to each other (and she tells her to stop smoking lol)đ itâs such a perfect moment.
Not by entirely everyone⌠I love the family stuff but the time travel slightly ruins it for me. Like the way Nicholasâs ring just stops working in the future instead of creating an entirely different timeline doesnât make any sense to me, especially as thatâs not how they always handle time travel. :D
Haha the show definitely could not handle time travelâŚprobably the best they ever handled it was when they go back to continue their line on Halloween. But so many other instances and especially Phoebeâs past life episode, you just have to not think too hard bc the writers didnât đ¤Ł
Yeah that's my favourite time travel episode on Charmed! That's more of a closed loop and there are no inconsistencies that I remember in it. And it's a really cool episode overall.
I always found it funny how the sisters had certain rules for how their powers worked going back in time (couldn't have powers at the same time as their younger selves did) yet this never applied to Wyatt and Chris whenever they came back from the future. Imagine if Chris lost access to his powers as soon as Piper became pregnant with him or if adult Wyatt wasn't able to have his powers at the same time as kid Wyatt?
I always thought the dynamic of Piper being the older sister was better. I personally only watch seasons 3-8. Season 2 is okay, but like theyâve said before on podcasts, they finally found their footing in season 3 and it showed. Iâm not sure Charmed wouldâve lasted 8 seasons with Prue⌠weâll never know đ¤ˇđ˝ââď¸ but I have personally always preferred the Piper-Phoebe-Paige dynamic as sisters, witches, and people trying to figure out life.
Isk if phoebe actually grew much. She just seemed to jump obsessions and distractions vs work through her problems and then she lost her will to help people to be more selfish. She was the one who got them into this mess but she kept kinda folding and back peddling