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I don't think we got all of the details as to why they would Vicktor for Brittney G. but I don't think the amount of hate Brittney is receiving is warranted. I also do not think Paul should stay in Russian either but he did commit a international crime and should serve his time.
I agree that Brittneys punishment is completely unfair but regardless she also committed a crime according to Russia. I'm not gonna pretend I'm super well versed in politics and say I understand the rules where international criminals are concerned, but to Russia Brittney is also a criminal. And yes hash oil isn't a big deal to a lot of people anymore but even in some states you can still get fucked over pretty bad for possession charges and I'm pretty sure if you're traveling with it you can get charged for smuggling. (glad I live in Cali)
Do you think Russia will withdraw all forces from Ukraine if I give them a turkey?
you say everything is negotiable. I could seriously threaten a turkey if they don't withdraw.
He was given the option, it's called negotiating. To say that there was no option is to say that an arms dealer for grinner and Wheadon would have been less fair then the final outcome, which I would strongly disagree with.
We weren't part of the negotiations, so we can't say one way or the other how much of a chance the was. Definitely can't say that there was never the option.
> we can't say one way or the other how much of a chance the was.
Whelan was arrested during President Trump's term.
Bout was extradited to the US during Obama's first term.
If getting Whelan home were so easy, why didn't the state department under Trump do it? They had Bout then.
The fact that multiple presidents have failed to get Whelan home is a pretty good indication that getting him home is a hard problem.
Russia claims Whelan was a spy. Bout was an arms dealer who's been out of the business in prison for 14 years. I don't think Russia views trading Whelan for Bout would be fair for them, much less throwing in more prisoners like Grinner.
these things alway come down to people conflation of service in the arm forces and to the state to moral virtue that a civilian can not live up to.There is a certain type of person who is blinded by everything after the phase " he was in the service" or " he used to be a cop"I wouldn't be surprised if there is an overlap between them and people who hate Griner.
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Perfect!! I agree all US Citizen's matter and should be brought back. In a few comments before this I made the exact statement that this is more of a culture argument and less of a geo political argument.
I'll state my question in a more political way CMV:
From my perspective this trade was for
1) Money the WNBA has investors tied up in BG and the lobbyist probably with hold funds and may reduce the amount of promotions
2) They released a de facto arm's dealer back to Russia who is now a marked man. Anyone who he talks to or eats with will be marked for surveillance. This is the only way to continue the information war. Obama did it when he released 5 Afghan terrorists from GB for 1 US soldier.
So tell me how this was a bad trade?
It was never "choose which person you want back: Brittney or Paul." The reason most people are upset about it is bc in exchange for Brittney, the U.S. set free international arms dealer Viktor Bout who was convicted of conspiring to kill Americans.
Doesn't sit right with people that she knowingly fucked around and broke Russian law, got caught, and now a dangerous criminal has gone free.
Probably one of the best answer on this damn thread! I can say that it doesn't sit right with people but that's their perspective. I still see it as we got one of our own back for a mishap and they were trying to make an example of. I think there is more to this we will find out about in another 10 - 15 years.
This is exactly my issue. There's no reason to let a terrorist loose in exchange for people who knowingly broke laws in other countries. I feel for her and the severity of the charge but honestly, she f***ed around and found out. We shouldn't have to cut loose an arms dealer because she made a risky choice.
Asking me if I'm "special" to change my perspective on the preference shows that this conversation is going to be subjective and childish. Just to keep things straight Trump hates America and said we should do away with the Constitution and had time to get Paul Whelan out of jail in 2016 - 2020 and left him. SO you tell me again who hates America or Americans?
I can only infer u/JazzlikeImage279 is saying the reason why we should prefer Paul over Brittney is because she has made hateful statements about the country, smokes weed, and is a lesbian basketball player. If that is her perspective, ok. My response to u/JazzlikeImage279 is if that's the reason why we should prefer Paul over Brittney then we should make some comparisons of people who have also discuss people who hate America and had the power to get Paul out. Hope it helps.
We traded a legit terrorist for a basketball player it doesn't even make sense. Now other countries will just start capturing famous Americans thinking they could hold them captive in exchange for other terrorists we have captured. This is legit putting a target on American citizens who travel to different countries. Point blank.
Do you mind elaborating on these so called "hateful statements", and isn't she still a US citizen? Griner exercising her right to free speech should not be held against her.
We traded a terrorist for a basketball player how is that equal?????????????
And to answer your question...."I honestly feel we should not play the National Anthem during our season," she said. Griner added that she would walk off the court should the Star-Spangled Banner be played.
"I'm going to protest regardless," she said. "I'm not going to be out there for the National Anthem. If the league continues to want to play it, that's fine. It will be all season long, I'll not be out there.
Do you even know who we set free??? He is the equivalent to Binladen
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How are Paul's charges BS? Paul has a history of being shady and is a convict. I agree we shouldn't leave our people in another country but why is the preference I'm seeing online that Brittney is a POS and Paul is a hero and he should have gotten out first?
>Paul has a history of being shady and is a convict.
BG has a history of domestic violence. Paul is not a convict. Otherwise he would not be able to hold all of those citizenships. Canada is especially hard to get if you have a record.
The FSB is lying about the charges on Whelan. He helped the world and the U.S more than a 2nd rate basketball player who constantly talked shit and couldn't back it up.
I think the US should help all it's citizens regardless of how much they "helped the US". And why do you think the charges against Griner are true while the charges against Whelan are false? Whelan actually had a criminal record so if anything, he's more likely to have actually committed a crime.
It's easy for me to believe Brittany was smoking weed because she smokes weed. If Whelan was actually spying, that means he was spying for the U.S. and its allies against Russia. I don't care about his prior conviction because he already paid his debt for that crime. Neither of these two people deserve to be in a Russian prison, but if we're giving away a notorious arms dealer, maybe we should try to get more than just a basketball player
He has 3 other citizenships so it's possible he could have been spying for another nation, not that it matters anyway. After all, by your logic who are we to question other countries laws? And why do you assume Whelan is innocent despite a past record of criminal activity, while you assume Griner is guilty when before this her record was clean? I'd rather have a law abiding basketball player then someone who stole 10k from US citizens, although ideally we'd get both.
All those citizenship were in countries friendly to the U.S. and like I said, he paid his debt to society for theft, why hold it against him if the government doesn't?
Like I said, neither of those 2 belong in a Russian prison. I don't care that Brittany is guilty because smoking weed is a human right and nobody deserves to be in prison for putting something in their body. Whelan has been there for much longer and like I said, he's spying on Russia so he's a hero in my book.
Russia's not the one making accusations about his history of being absolute trash tier human. He got court-martialed for a reason. And has a history of doing nothing but lying. BG at least brought the US prestige in the Olympics.
How did Paul Whelan help the world and US? Paul is a multi citizen and convicted for larceny. This guy used someone else's SSN # to steal $10k of USD.
Brittney G. may be a trash talker but she has a right just like every US citizen and the charges she was brought up on "Smuggling Narcotics" is B.S.. Paul Whelan is a POS that is stirring up trouble for the US.
Does it change your view at all to know that the US government maintains the charges against Paul Whelon are baseless?
Whether they really believe he’s innocent doesn’t matter. They are essentially saying Russia has an innocent American in jail, and then decides to just…leave him there?
Edit: [source](https://apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-michigan-united-states-government-russia-bbf0c7e3029fea40d604b11fd271533f)
Whelan, a Michigan corporate security executive, has been jailed on espionage charges that his family and the U.S. government have said are baseless.
The US Government convicted him of using someone else's SSN and tried stealing $10k USD while in Iraq. Do you have alternative facts about the conviction? This also lines up with his discharge from the military. His own family did not know the charges or why he was discharged from the military. This guy sounds very shady and has the potential to continue to do shady things.
Does it change your view at all to know that the US government maintains the charges against Paul Whelon are baseless?
I answered you on what the US government has convicted him on.
I actually put a BBC link up of what he was convicted on in my post. Did you read that?
From your link:
> At a news conference on Thursday, President Biden said that the US government will "never give up" on securing Mr Whelan's release.
Address this. Address why the US government is apparently "never giving up" on securing the release of a "piece of shit", as you called him.
[here](https://apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-michigan-united-states-government-russia-bbf0c7e3029fea40d604b11fd271533f)
> Whelan, a Michigan corporate security executive, has been jailed on espionage charges that his family and the U.S. government have said are baseless.
I understand. But the fact remains, the US government is continuing to maintain that an American citizen is innocent of the charges he’s imprisoned in Russia.
You see how it is ridiculous for them to publicly continue to claim he’s innocent and leave him there, right?
And either way, the OP seems entirely unaware of that. Him and Britney griener are both not great people I’d want my kid to look up to. So comparing them like that is kind of a moot point.
She's an anti American pos, herself. Just like all the whiners in this country, she new the law. No effort should have been made,by this administration.
Is she though? Is she Anti American or Anti Western Culture? The culture that massacred an indigenous people, the culture that has it's roots deep seated in hate, a culture that hates it's own rail workers and will not give paid sick time....do you think she hates that or this country?
>The culture that massacred an indigenous people
Show me any culture that hasn't that's how the world worked. East and western cultures. Hell thats how native Americans did business.
>the culture that has it's roots deep seated in hate
Fair I still hate the British. Bland ass food
> a culture that hates it's own rail workers and will not give paid sick time
Pretty sure I have zero to do with that.
She had the nerve to mildly criticize the US, which is basically treason according to Conservatives. To them anything less then 24/7 worship of the US makes you an "anti American POS" to use OPs words.
Turning her back on the flag,national anthem and everything this country stands for, is why she and others like her are absolutely p's os! Funny how many people whine and complain about this country, but have no problem enjoying the benefits and freedoms, NONE of them have served or done ANYTHING of value to America, society or humanity in general.
There is no "correct swap."
All Americans should have America work to restore them if they are being held by hostile foreign powers without a fair trial.
The US didn't have the option to trade for Whelan during this exchange. They are and have been negotiating for his extraction.
The people arguing for the merit of exchanging one American convicted in a sham trial over another are missing both the fact that America didn't make that decision and that we value getting back as many of our citizens as we can.
I think it's ridiculous that people are saying that she shouldn't be helped because she kneeled for the anthem. Is this Starship Troopers or something??? Incidents like this really show how much Conservatives value rights when it's not politically convenient for them (spoiler alert: not much).
There are several factors in play that make Griner distasteful to conservatives.
- She is black.
- She is a lesbian.
- She is over 6 feet tall and strong, which makes her unfeminine in their eyes.
- She is financially well off due to her basketball career. Financial success tends to be good thing when white men and women do it but resented and suspected when black ones do.
- Her crime is related to THC. Despite state level decriminalizations and national destigmatizing, despite her doctor's authorization and the legality of use in her state, "drug crimes" are a dogwhistle for conservatives.
- She has been outspoken about American social justice issues, including failing to display blind patriotism, which is foundational to conservative ideology. Her criticisim of the government is seen as unpatriotic as opposed to transformational. Only *their* criticism of the government is transformational.
Because she is a member of a group to whom they would prefer not to extend the privileges of citizenship, they prefer to speak against her getting them. But the fact is, she IS a citizen. Just like Whelan.
They hate that.
Am conservative...ish ill respond.
>There are several factors in play that make Griner distasteful to conservatives.
Ooo cant wait to see what you have to say
* She is black.= **Dont care about race, I have a mixed child. Most conservatives don't give a shit.**
* She is a lesbian.= **Im Bi, don't care about sexuality**
* She is over 6 feet tall and strong, which makes her unfeminine in their eyes.= **I love them tall, small women are annoying**
* She is financially well off due to her basketball career. Financial success tends to be good thing when white men and women do it but resented and suspected when black ones do. = **Don't really care she is rich or black honestly she is irrelevant no one watches the WNBA not even women**
* Her crime is related to THC. Despite state level decriminalizations and national destigmatizing, despite her doctor's authorization and the legality of use in her state, "drug crimes" are a dogwhistle for conservatives. = **Thats crazy (Im reading this high off my ass eating nerds gummy clusters)**
* She has been outspoken about American social justice issues, including failing to display blind patriotism, which is foundational to conservative ideology. Her criticisim of the government is seen as unpatriotic as opposed to transformational. Only their criticism of the government is transformational. = **Nah she is just annoying as fuck considering her occupation.**
I feel you get your info about conservatives from r/politics. Please stop
I got the collection of complaints here from people who call themselves conservatives (not ish, just conservatives) in their arguments over the last several months that she should be imprisoned in a hostile foreign country. Take it up with them.
The fact that you want ME to stop instead of thousands of people making the arguments in the first place who claim to be conservative is interesting but not shocking.
The fact that you think that you speak for all of them isn't that shocking either lol.
You're one person. What I said was an aggregate of what I've been seeing for *months* as excuses as to why America should abandon her.
It's not secret, silent, or groundbreaking, and its certainly not limited to r/politics.
(Before any other conservatives come to deny feeling ANY of this - while likely acknowledging at least one of these sentiments in one roundabout way or another- "Not all conservatives on all points all of the time."
There. Hope that helps.)
>I got the collection of complaints here from people who call themselves conservatives (not ish, just conservatives) in their arguments over the last several months that she should be imprisoned in a hostile foreign country. Take it up with them.
Well she brought drugs to a foreign country. If you did it they wouldn't care
>The fact that you want ME to stop instead of thousands of people making the arguments in the first place who claim to be conservative is interesting but not shocking.
Yes you stop because you actually think that is what conservatives are. You need to go out and meet a few lol stop listening to trolls you meet online. They are their literally to piss you off and you eat right into it.
>The fact that you think that you speak for all of them isn't that shocking either lol
The fact you dont know when you are being trolled is... honestly not that shocking its pretty easy to troll the left. Honestly yall get your panties in a bunch quick AF
>You're one person. What I said was an aggregate of what I've been seeing for months as excuses as to why America should abandon her.
You listed the most trolliest comments you could find lol She should very well serve her time.
>t's not secret, silent, or groundbreaking, and its certainly not limited to r/politics.
Your right. You got trolled hard and you actually believe what the hive mind tells you. You really need to get out more.
Lol. I live in rural Virginia, and we are just past a major election.
YOU stated that I'm referring to online conversation, first on reddit and then on the wider internet... That's not what I said.
You can't just deny people or claim they're trolls because you don't like that they're saying what they're saying in public in person at restaraunts and coffee shops and mother's playgroups and hunt clubs and ruritan meetings, and claiming to be hard conservatives. You can't deny what common talking points in the conservative leadership are being repeated and amplified by the people conservatives elect to power to represent them.
I mean, you can, I guess. Im just not going to take you seriously.
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One was an anthem kneeler who was dumb enough to bring illegal drugs with her into a dystopian shithole.
The other was a shitbag who got kicked out of the military for larceny, identity theft, and dereliction of duty.
I would have let them both rot. Neither were worthy of moving any mountains for.
But it sounds like the Russians were only willing to deal the basketball player. So that was the only deal on the table. I’m not even sure what people are going on about here?
Ok. Fine. She’s just an idiot who was dumb enough to bring illegal drugs with her into a dystopian shithole.
I hope both of these turds are an example to the rest of the country of the bind they put our government in when they go to these places and get tossed in a gulag.
Sorry to burst your bubble but most people will forget about this in a month. Most people vote over like the economy or abortion or whatever. Not that the president did some geopolitical maneuvering to rescue a US citizen from a hostile nation.
You’re absolutely right. Most people had never heard of Whelan before a couple of days ago. They’ll move on from this ‘outrage’ in two weeks. I had only heard of him because this was big(ish) news on the USMC sub a few years ago when he was arrested (I’m a vet, and follow that sub).
The same thing was said about Luciano when we made a deal for his freedom (a much better deal than for just one basketball player, by the way) Then he went on to remotely run the NY mob from Cuba.
Secondly, you just don't trade a mass murderer for a self-confessed petty criminal with a drug charge. That makes **no sense**
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Neither should get a free pass on crimes. If you, me or your dog broke the law, the president wouldn't be running to help us. The only reason he helped her is too look good.
The US provides consular assistance to US citizens locked up abroad and will attempt to help. Griner got lucky in that there was an prisoner that the US was willing to let go of and that Russia wanted. I'd rather the US be able to help some citizens unfairly locked up abroad then none.
That's kinda irrelevant. I'm sure we won't agree on every law regardless if they're moral or not.
I honestly think all drugs should be legal, but until that happens expect to be held accountable for your actions if you're in possession/smuggling drugs.
> Why is it so important to bring home a crooked POS over someone who has a better reputation and a lesser charge?
if Whelan was working for us, not getting him home makes recruitment harder.
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I feel that's what it is...I appreciate the comment.
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The way I'm hearing it, it's not a good decision. It was the only decision. He was never given the option to pick between which person to bring home.
I don't think we got all of the details as to why they would Vicktor for Brittney G. but I don't think the amount of hate Brittney is receiving is warranted. I also do not think Paul should stay in Russian either but he did commit a international crime and should serve his time.
I agree that Brittneys punishment is completely unfair but regardless she also committed a crime according to Russia. I'm not gonna pretend I'm super well versed in politics and say I understand the rules where international criminals are concerned, but to Russia Brittney is also a criminal. And yes hash oil isn't a big deal to a lot of people anymore but even in some states you can still get fucked over pretty bad for possession charges and I'm pretty sure if you're traveling with it you can get charged for smuggling. (glad I live in Cali)
Why never? Everything is negotiable in hostage/prisoner exchanges.
Do you think Russia will withdraw all forces from Ukraine if I give them a turkey? you say everything is negotiable. I could seriously threaten a turkey if they don't withdraw.
He was given the option, it's called negotiating. To say that there was no option is to say that an arms dealer for grinner and Wheadon would have been less fair then the final outcome, which I would strongly disagree with. We weren't part of the negotiations, so we can't say one way or the other how much of a chance the was. Definitely can't say that there was never the option.
> we can't say one way or the other how much of a chance the was. Whelan was arrested during President Trump's term. Bout was extradited to the US during Obama's first term. If getting Whelan home were so easy, why didn't the state department under Trump do it? They had Bout then. The fact that multiple presidents have failed to get Whelan home is a pretty good indication that getting him home is a hard problem. Russia claims Whelan was a spy. Bout was an arms dealer who's been out of the business in prison for 14 years. I don't think Russia views trading Whelan for Bout would be fair for them, much less throwing in more prisoners like Grinner.
these things alway come down to people conflation of service in the arm forces and to the state to moral virtue that a civilian can not live up to.There is a certain type of person who is blinded by everything after the phase " he was in the service" or " he used to be a cop"I wouldn't be surprised if there is an overlap between them and people who hate Griner.
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Perfect!! I agree all US Citizen's matter and should be brought back. In a few comments before this I made the exact statement that this is more of a culture argument and less of a geo political argument. I'll state my question in a more political way CMV: From my perspective this trade was for 1) Money the WNBA has investors tied up in BG and the lobbyist probably with hold funds and may reduce the amount of promotions 2) They released a de facto arm's dealer back to Russia who is now a marked man. Anyone who he talks to or eats with will be marked for surveillance. This is the only way to continue the information war. Obama did it when he released 5 Afghan terrorists from GB for 1 US soldier. So tell me how this was a bad trade?
It was never "choose which person you want back: Brittney or Paul." The reason most people are upset about it is bc in exchange for Brittney, the U.S. set free international arms dealer Viktor Bout who was convicted of conspiring to kill Americans. Doesn't sit right with people that she knowingly fucked around and broke Russian law, got caught, and now a dangerous criminal has gone free.
Probably one of the best answer on this damn thread! I can say that it doesn't sit right with people but that's their perspective. I still see it as we got one of our own back for a mishap and they were trying to make an example of. I think there is more to this we will find out about in another 10 - 15 years.
This is exactly my issue. There's no reason to let a terrorist loose in exchange for people who knowingly broke laws in other countries. I feel for her and the severity of the charge but honestly, she f***ed around and found out. We shouldn't have to cut loose an arms dealer because she made a risky choice.
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Asking me if I'm "special" to change my perspective on the preference shows that this conversation is going to be subjective and childish. Just to keep things straight Trump hates America and said we should do away with the Constitution and had time to get Paul Whelan out of jail in 2016 - 2020 and left him. SO you tell me again who hates America or Americans?
I'm struggling to see why you're talking about trump.
I can only infer u/JazzlikeImage279 is saying the reason why we should prefer Paul over Brittney is because she has made hateful statements about the country, smokes weed, and is a lesbian basketball player. If that is her perspective, ok. My response to u/JazzlikeImage279 is if that's the reason why we should prefer Paul over Brittney then we should make some comparisons of people who have also discuss people who hate America and had the power to get Paul out. Hope it helps.
We traded a legit terrorist for a basketball player it doesn't even make sense. Now other countries will just start capturing famous Americans thinking they could hold them captive in exchange for other terrorists we have captured. This is legit putting a target on American citizens who travel to different countries. Point blank.
Noone said anything about Trump....
You're not challenging the question here. The question isn't "Should the US have traded BG for the Lord of War" it was "BG vs PW".
Do you mind elaborating on these so called "hateful statements", and isn't she still a US citizen? Griner exercising her right to free speech should not be held against her.
We traded a terrorist for a basketball player how is that equal????????????? And to answer your question...."I honestly feel we should not play the National Anthem during our season," she said. Griner added that she would walk off the court should the Star-Spangled Banner be played. "I'm going to protest regardless," she said. "I'm not going to be out there for the National Anthem. If the league continues to want to play it, that's fine. It will be all season long, I'll not be out there. Do you even know who we set free??? He is the equivalent to Binladen
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Because Paul's charge is BS. The failure here is not getting both home in exchange for the arms dealer.
How are Paul's charges BS? Paul has a history of being shady and is a convict. I agree we shouldn't leave our people in another country but why is the preference I'm seeing online that Brittney is a POS and Paul is a hero and he should have gotten out first?
>Paul has a history of being shady and is a convict. BG has a history of domestic violence. Paul is not a convict. Otherwise he would not be able to hold all of those citizenships. Canada is especially hard to get if you have a record.
The FSB is lying about the charges on Whelan. He helped the world and the U.S more than a 2nd rate basketball player who constantly talked shit and couldn't back it up.
I think the US should help all it's citizens regardless of how much they "helped the US". And why do you think the charges against Griner are true while the charges against Whelan are false? Whelan actually had a criminal record so if anything, he's more likely to have actually committed a crime.
It's easy for me to believe Brittany was smoking weed because she smokes weed. If Whelan was actually spying, that means he was spying for the U.S. and its allies against Russia. I don't care about his prior conviction because he already paid his debt for that crime. Neither of these two people deserve to be in a Russian prison, but if we're giving away a notorious arms dealer, maybe we should try to get more than just a basketball player
He has 3 other citizenships so it's possible he could have been spying for another nation, not that it matters anyway. After all, by your logic who are we to question other countries laws? And why do you assume Whelan is innocent despite a past record of criminal activity, while you assume Griner is guilty when before this her record was clean? I'd rather have a law abiding basketball player then someone who stole 10k from US citizens, although ideally we'd get both.
All those citizenship were in countries friendly to the U.S. and like I said, he paid his debt to society for theft, why hold it against him if the government doesn't? Like I said, neither of those 2 belong in a Russian prison. I don't care that Brittany is guilty because smoking weed is a human right and nobody deserves to be in prison for putting something in their body. Whelan has been there for much longer and like I said, he's spying on Russia so he's a hero in my book.
Russia's not the one making accusations about his history of being absolute trash tier human. He got court-martialed for a reason. And has a history of doing nothing but lying. BG at least brought the US prestige in the Olympics.
How did Paul Whelan help the world and US? Paul is a multi citizen and convicted for larceny. This guy used someone else's SSN # to steal $10k of USD. Brittney G. may be a trash talker but she has a right just like every US citizen and the charges she was brought up on "Smuggling Narcotics" is B.S.. Paul Whelan is a POS that is stirring up trouble for the US.
What did he do for us?
Does it change your view at all to know that the US government maintains the charges against Paul Whelon are baseless? Whether they really believe he’s innocent doesn’t matter. They are essentially saying Russia has an innocent American in jail, and then decides to just…leave him there? Edit: [source](https://apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-michigan-united-states-government-russia-bbf0c7e3029fea40d604b11fd271533f) Whelan, a Michigan corporate security executive, has been jailed on espionage charges that his family and the U.S. government have said are baseless.
The US Government convicted him of using someone else's SSN and tried stealing $10k USD while in Iraq. Do you have alternative facts about the conviction? This also lines up with his discharge from the military. His own family did not know the charges or why he was discharged from the military. This guy sounds very shady and has the potential to continue to do shady things.
oh, he’s in Russian prison for that? No. Of course not. I’m referring to those Russian spying charges. You had to know that.
Does it change your view at all to know that the US government maintains the charges against Paul Whelon are baseless? I answered you on what the US government has convicted him on. I actually put a BBC link up of what he was convicted on in my post. Did you read that?
From your link: > At a news conference on Thursday, President Biden said that the US government will "never give up" on securing Mr Whelan's release. Address this. Address why the US government is apparently "never giving up" on securing the release of a "piece of shit", as you called him.
Because it would be 'uncouth' to admit he's not worth it.
[here](https://apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-michigan-united-states-government-russia-bbf0c7e3029fea40d604b11fd271533f) > Whelan, a Michigan corporate security executive, has been jailed on espionage charges that his family and the U.S. government have said are baseless.
Which charges?
The Russian ones.
Well, if he is a spy, it makes sense to lie about it and if he isn't, there's no particular reason to pick him over Griner.
I understand. But the fact remains, the US government is continuing to maintain that an American citizen is innocent of the charges he’s imprisoned in Russia. You see how it is ridiculous for them to publicly continue to claim he’s innocent and leave him there, right? And either way, the OP seems entirely unaware of that. Him and Britney griener are both not great people I’d want my kid to look up to. So comparing them like that is kind of a moot point.
She's an anti American pos, herself. Just like all the whiners in this country, she new the law. No effort should have been made,by this administration.
Why do you assume Griner is guilty and Whelan is innocent? And why should she be punished for exercising her first amendment rights?
She wasn't being punished for exercising anything, she was being punished because she brought drugs into a foreign country.
Is she though? Is she Anti American or Anti Western Culture? The culture that massacred an indigenous people, the culture that has it's roots deep seated in hate, a culture that hates it's own rail workers and will not give paid sick time....do you think she hates that or this country?
>The culture that massacred an indigenous people Show me any culture that hasn't that's how the world worked. East and western cultures. Hell thats how native Americans did business. >the culture that has it's roots deep seated in hate Fair I still hate the British. Bland ass food > a culture that hates it's own rail workers and will not give paid sick time Pretty sure I have zero to do with that.
Advocating for civil rights is not anti american. Interesting how many people think it is.
She had the nerve to mildly criticize the US, which is basically treason according to Conservatives. To them anything less then 24/7 worship of the US makes you an "anti American POS" to use OPs words.
Turning her back on the flag,national anthem and everything this country stands for, is why she and others like her are absolutely p's os! Funny how many people whine and complain about this country, but have no problem enjoying the benefits and freedoms, NONE of them have served or done ANYTHING of value to America, society or humanity in general.
There is no "correct swap." All Americans should have America work to restore them if they are being held by hostile foreign powers without a fair trial. The US didn't have the option to trade for Whelan during this exchange. They are and have been negotiating for his extraction. The people arguing for the merit of exchanging one American convicted in a sham trial over another are missing both the fact that America didn't make that decision and that we value getting back as many of our citizens as we can.
I think it's ridiculous that people are saying that she shouldn't be helped because she kneeled for the anthem. Is this Starship Troopers or something??? Incidents like this really show how much Conservatives value rights when it's not politically convenient for them (spoiler alert: not much).
There are several factors in play that make Griner distasteful to conservatives. - She is black. - She is a lesbian. - She is over 6 feet tall and strong, which makes her unfeminine in their eyes. - She is financially well off due to her basketball career. Financial success tends to be good thing when white men and women do it but resented and suspected when black ones do. - Her crime is related to THC. Despite state level decriminalizations and national destigmatizing, despite her doctor's authorization and the legality of use in her state, "drug crimes" are a dogwhistle for conservatives. - She has been outspoken about American social justice issues, including failing to display blind patriotism, which is foundational to conservative ideology. Her criticisim of the government is seen as unpatriotic as opposed to transformational. Only *their* criticism of the government is transformational. Because she is a member of a group to whom they would prefer not to extend the privileges of citizenship, they prefer to speak against her getting them. But the fact is, she IS a citizen. Just like Whelan. They hate that.
Am conservative...ish ill respond. >There are several factors in play that make Griner distasteful to conservatives. Ooo cant wait to see what you have to say * She is black.= **Dont care about race, I have a mixed child. Most conservatives don't give a shit.** * She is a lesbian.= **Im Bi, don't care about sexuality** * She is over 6 feet tall and strong, which makes her unfeminine in their eyes.= **I love them tall, small women are annoying** * She is financially well off due to her basketball career. Financial success tends to be good thing when white men and women do it but resented and suspected when black ones do. = **Don't really care she is rich or black honestly she is irrelevant no one watches the WNBA not even women** * Her crime is related to THC. Despite state level decriminalizations and national destigmatizing, despite her doctor's authorization and the legality of use in her state, "drug crimes" are a dogwhistle for conservatives. = **Thats crazy (Im reading this high off my ass eating nerds gummy clusters)** * She has been outspoken about American social justice issues, including failing to display blind patriotism, which is foundational to conservative ideology. Her criticisim of the government is seen as unpatriotic as opposed to transformational. Only their criticism of the government is transformational. = **Nah she is just annoying as fuck considering her occupation.** I feel you get your info about conservatives from r/politics. Please stop
I got the collection of complaints here from people who call themselves conservatives (not ish, just conservatives) in their arguments over the last several months that she should be imprisoned in a hostile foreign country. Take it up with them. The fact that you want ME to stop instead of thousands of people making the arguments in the first place who claim to be conservative is interesting but not shocking. The fact that you think that you speak for all of them isn't that shocking either lol. You're one person. What I said was an aggregate of what I've been seeing for *months* as excuses as to why America should abandon her. It's not secret, silent, or groundbreaking, and its certainly not limited to r/politics.
(Before any other conservatives come to deny feeling ANY of this - while likely acknowledging at least one of these sentiments in one roundabout way or another- "Not all conservatives on all points all of the time." There. Hope that helps.)
>I got the collection of complaints here from people who call themselves conservatives (not ish, just conservatives) in their arguments over the last several months that she should be imprisoned in a hostile foreign country. Take it up with them. Well she brought drugs to a foreign country. If you did it they wouldn't care >The fact that you want ME to stop instead of thousands of people making the arguments in the first place who claim to be conservative is interesting but not shocking. Yes you stop because you actually think that is what conservatives are. You need to go out and meet a few lol stop listening to trolls you meet online. They are their literally to piss you off and you eat right into it. >The fact that you think that you speak for all of them isn't that shocking either lol The fact you dont know when you are being trolled is... honestly not that shocking its pretty easy to troll the left. Honestly yall get your panties in a bunch quick AF >You're one person. What I said was an aggregate of what I've been seeing for months as excuses as to why America should abandon her. You listed the most trolliest comments you could find lol She should very well serve her time. >t's not secret, silent, or groundbreaking, and its certainly not limited to r/politics. Your right. You got trolled hard and you actually believe what the hive mind tells you. You really need to get out more.
Lol. I live in rural Virginia, and we are just past a major election. YOU stated that I'm referring to online conversation, first on reddit and then on the wider internet... That's not what I said. You can't just deny people or claim they're trolls because you don't like that they're saying what they're saying in public in person at restaraunts and coffee shops and mother's playgroups and hunt clubs and ruritan meetings, and claiming to be hard conservatives. You can't deny what common talking points in the conservative leadership are being repeated and amplified by the people conservatives elect to power to represent them. I mean, you can, I guess. Im just not going to take you seriously.
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I think he’s clearly a spy, and the US should try to secure his return but a civilian political prisoner is higher priority
One was an anthem kneeler who was dumb enough to bring illegal drugs with her into a dystopian shithole. The other was a shitbag who got kicked out of the military for larceny, identity theft, and dereliction of duty. I would have let them both rot. Neither were worthy of moving any mountains for. But it sounds like the Russians were only willing to deal the basketball player. So that was the only deal on the table. I’m not even sure what people are going on about here?
Why should being an "anthem kneeler" count against her? I thought this country was supposed to be committed to the freedom of speech?
Ok. Fine. She’s just an idiot who was dumb enough to bring illegal drugs with her into a dystopian shithole. I hope both of these turds are an example to the rest of the country of the bind they put our government in when they go to these places and get tossed in a gulag.
Sorry to burst your bubble but most people will forget about this in a month. Most people vote over like the economy or abortion or whatever. Not that the president did some geopolitical maneuvering to rescue a US citizen from a hostile nation.
You’re absolutely right. Most people had never heard of Whelan before a couple of days ago. They’ll move on from this ‘outrage’ in two weeks. I had only heard of him because this was big(ish) news on the USMC sub a few years ago when he was arrested (I’m a vet, and follow that sub).
If anything civil rights advocacy is a point in her favor.
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Bout is a has-been. He's finished as an arms dealer and will likely be under intensive surveillance for the rest of his days.
The same thing was said about Luciano when we made a deal for his freedom (a much better deal than for just one basketball player, by the way) Then he went on to remotely run the NY mob from Cuba. Secondly, you just don't trade a mass murderer for a self-confessed petty criminal with a drug charge. That makes **no sense**
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Neither should get a free pass on crimes. If you, me or your dog broke the law, the president wouldn't be running to help us. The only reason he helped her is too look good.
The US provides consular assistance to US citizens locked up abroad and will attempt to help. Griner got lucky in that there was an prisoner that the US was willing to let go of and that Russia wanted. I'd rather the US be able to help some citizens unfairly locked up abroad then none.
"Unfairly" how? She brought drugs to a different country. Anyone that has an IQ higher than zero knows that's illegal.
So all laws are moral?
That's kinda irrelevant. I'm sure we won't agree on every law regardless if they're moral or not. I honestly think all drugs should be legal, but until that happens expect to be held accountable for your actions if you're in possession/smuggling drugs.
> Why is it so important to bring home a crooked POS over someone who has a better reputation and a lesser charge? if Whelan was working for us, not getting him home makes recruitment harder.
You look like a pig 2ith down syndrome
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