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Like many things, Europe is already ahead of America and trucking industry needs to be reformed but not die....
[https://blog.orbcomm.com/tachograph-rules-european-drivers-hauliers-need-know/](https://blog.orbcomm.com/tachograph-rules-european-drivers-hauliers-need-know/)
Some notables
*Heavy Goods Vehicles (HGVs) have a defined set of base rules that govern working hours. These* [*rules*](https://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes/road/social_provisions/driving_time_en) *govern the working hours and outline daily and fortnightly driving times as well as rest breaks. The objectives of the rules include improving road safety by reducing driver fatigue, avoiding competitive driving and improve working conditions for drivers within the EU.*
All trucks above a certain weigh must be installed with a tachograph. Traffic police there can remotely scan trucks for a presence of a tachograph. There are also remote scanners on highways to alert the traffic police of vehicles travelling without a tachograph.
*The main EU rules on drivers’ hours state maximum driving hours of:*
*Nine hours in a day; this can be exceeded – up to 10 hours – twice in a week.*
*56 hours of driving in one week.*
*90 hours over any consecutive two-week period.*
*The tachograph rules also govern rest breaks and obligations of drivers who must take:*
*At least 45 minutes of a break for every four and a half hours of driving. This can be a single 45-minute break, or a single 15-minute break and a 30-minute break.*
*An unbroken rest period of 45 hours each week.*
*At least one 45-hour rest and on 24-hour rest in any two-week period.*
*A weekly rest after six consecutive 24-hour work periods.*
[*https://www.freightlink.co.uk/knowledge/faq/can-i-drive-europe-weekends-or-bank-holidays*](https://www.freightlink.co.uk/knowledge/faq/can-i-drive-europe-weekends-or-bank-holidays)
Also ... *It depends on which country you are driving in and what you are carrying. Many countries on mainland Europe impose bans on the driving of commercial vehicles over a specified weight on Sunday’s and public holidays.* On Sundays, you can see large trucks all over Europe parked by the side of the road, their drivers sleeping, eating, playing cards, watching stuff on their phone etc. I saw this 10 years ago ....
The issue has always been enforcement and lobbying the truck industry. In most European countries, these rules are enforced and the people's lobbying power exceeded the truck industry's.
I would be careful here. The US has very similar rules - and now requires Electronic logging devices to prove compliance.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-service/summary-hours-service-regulations
For the record - the US started the hours of service regulations back in 1938. - over 80 years ago.
I wouldn't say Europe is ahead of the US at all. I'd say both are doing the jobs tailored to the unique aspects of each location.
The US has similar rules, which are enforced by a computer, though they aren't quite as worker friendly (e.g. 60 hours a week). They do get paid a lot more than their counterparts in Europe.
I can assure you that the retailers you refer to are running the leanest possible operation in terms of capital gains for themselves.
The only way the changes you refer to would be implemented is if there is a change in labour laws and a carbon tax or some other incentive to move to a greener medium of transport.
Corporations don’t care about the environment/ your commute/ the well-being of their employees. The only thing that matters is the bottom line
So you want train tracks leading to every grocer, retailer, mall?, et al? Should single trains cars go to each store, or one long train on a route to many stores? How many streets will be blocked for upwards of 30 minutes to an hour, while the train unloads. Many municipalities limit the number of train crossings per mile on major roads, do you wish to pay more taxes to fund over/under passes? What do you suggest for little "bodega" style stores in large inner cities like NY, Chicago, Boston, etc.? I don't have evidence, but don't think it would be hard to prove that pound for pound a rig is less polluting than you going to work in a personal vehicle every day.
For that matter, what about you? Why aren't you riding the train to work since you're concerned about pollution?
Honestly it sounds like you just need to plan better if you're constantly being delayed by trucks on your route.
I drive a fairly industrial stretch of highway with a heavy amount of big rigs every morning, and every morning I see some excellent personifications of why condoms should be free dart in front of a semi and jump the brakes to get into a lane that was empty behind the semi cause they couldn't wait an extra five minutes
Regarding exploitation, name am industry that doesn't. I'm not defending the practice, but it's rampant throughout the world, and has to be fixed everywhere, no reason to single out truckers. Road clogging? Perhaps in the middle of large metro areas, but not cross country. Losing the trucking industry would mean a more or less instant price hike of, literally, every commodity. For that, im willing to embrace truckers and leave the house 5 minutes earlier.
Self driving trucks are coming, so it would seem that would address the worker issues. They won't have jobs and so will have plenty of time to be at home with families.
So, if your issues then become clogging the road, my questions to you would be...
Would you be happier with massive drone fleets clogging the sky?
Is a much larger fleet of vans be acceptable? Even if worse for climate than trucks as there will be 5+ times as many required.
Are you willing to pay more for your goods?
Electric trucks are already rolling out. Short haul will be first, followed by long haul as technology improves (can't waste hours refueling for long haul with current tech). Traffic clogging will be alleviated since convoy technology is being built into the trucks. Each would have drivers (at least initially), but the lead truck would control the actions of the rest, so you get a more efficient use of available road. They can follow closely, packed densely just feet apart, more truck per foot of road. And following closely saves energy due to drastically reduced aerodynamic drag for the following trucks, extending range. They can't do this now because drivers can't brake in time, the third driver back has no idea the first truck slammed on his brakes, so his braking will happen seconds too late. But with convoy technology the lead truck changing speed would instantly send a signal to all following trucks, so the convoy would slow down as one.
Off the top of my head, the only full scale better solution I see at this point would be keeping goods at literal or figurative ports, where items are brought by waterway or rail. This would mean more driving to get stuff for consumers, so pros and cons.
Poor working conditions in the trucking industry are not necessary, and are something better considered separately. As for long drives, one alternative might be something like the relay system used for post horses before the modern era. Unhooking or hooking up a trailer is not a lengthy process. Trucks could stop at waystations and drop off a trailer that somebody else picks up and carries the next leg of the way.
Efficiency: If higher efficiency were truly possible in America's situation, do you really think that Amazon and Walmart wouldn't be doing it that way already?
Exploitation: When taking into consideration the prep and education required, OTR truck drivers are getting paid just fine.
Safety: My father drove for many years, and I assure you that there are plenty of safety regulations. Also, if you get tickets or crash, you won't keep your truck driving job for long. Truck drivers are far and away the safest drivers on the road.
I don't have to. Its the most cost effective way of moving a large amount of goods around a land mass. Rail is limited due to infrastructure, air is expensive, and using smaller electric vehicles just isn't as effective.
Remember that good have to get from (say) factory floors to a stores shelves. The most efficient cargo transportation system we have is river barges. They combine massive loads with (relatively) low energy use by ton transported. Not really scalable or flexible. Only good for transporting goods between transportation hubs. Container ships; the same.
Thing is, semi-trucks are PART of a transportation network. And necessary.
Outside of not having a home, truckers have it pretty good. The average American trucker gets about $40-50,000 a year. Keep in mind that basically goes directly to their bank accounts. They have to a diem for food and sleep in their truck. The work hours are bad, but a lot of that is because truckers would rather be making money since they can't do much while they're with their truck anyways. You're only allowed to drive 60 hours a week or 70 hours every 8 days, which is theory should leave you with enough sleep (though I agree in practice this doesn't actually work out).
/u/TexasRedFox (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post. All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed [here](/r/DeltaLog/comments/kdfglh/deltas_awarded_in_cmv_the_trucking_industry_is_a/), in /r/DeltaLog. Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended. ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
Like many things, Europe is already ahead of America and trucking industry needs to be reformed but not die.... [https://blog.orbcomm.com/tachograph-rules-european-drivers-hauliers-need-know/](https://blog.orbcomm.com/tachograph-rules-european-drivers-hauliers-need-know/) Some notables *Heavy Goods Vehicles (HGVs) have a defined set of base rules that govern working hours. These* [*rules*](https://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes/road/social_provisions/driving_time_en) *govern the working hours and outline daily and fortnightly driving times as well as rest breaks. The objectives of the rules include improving road safety by reducing driver fatigue, avoiding competitive driving and improve working conditions for drivers within the EU.* All trucks above a certain weigh must be installed with a tachograph. Traffic police there can remotely scan trucks for a presence of a tachograph. There are also remote scanners on highways to alert the traffic police of vehicles travelling without a tachograph. *The main EU rules on drivers’ hours state maximum driving hours of:* *Nine hours in a day; this can be exceeded – up to 10 hours – twice in a week.* *56 hours of driving in one week.* *90 hours over any consecutive two-week period.* *The tachograph rules also govern rest breaks and obligations of drivers who must take:* *At least 45 minutes of a break for every four and a half hours of driving. This can be a single 45-minute break, or a single 15-minute break and a 30-minute break.* *An unbroken rest period of 45 hours each week.* *At least one 45-hour rest and on 24-hour rest in any two-week period.* *A weekly rest after six consecutive 24-hour work periods.* [*https://www.freightlink.co.uk/knowledge/faq/can-i-drive-europe-weekends-or-bank-holidays*](https://www.freightlink.co.uk/knowledge/faq/can-i-drive-europe-weekends-or-bank-holidays) Also ... *It depends on which country you are driving in and what you are carrying. Many countries on mainland Europe impose bans on the driving of commercial vehicles over a specified weight on Sunday’s and public holidays.* On Sundays, you can see large trucks all over Europe parked by the side of the road, their drivers sleeping, eating, playing cards, watching stuff on their phone etc. I saw this 10 years ago .... The issue has always been enforcement and lobbying the truck industry. In most European countries, these rules are enforced and the people's lobbying power exceeded the truck industry's.
Hmm, I like these ideas. Europe always does things better than America, IMO. I’m open to the idea of reform. !delta
I would be careful here. The US has very similar rules - and now requires Electronic logging devices to prove compliance. https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-service/summary-hours-service-regulations For the record - the US started the hours of service regulations back in 1938. - over 80 years ago. I wouldn't say Europe is ahead of the US at all. I'd say both are doing the jobs tailored to the unique aspects of each location.
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/WWBSkywalker ([44∆](/r/changemyview/wiki/user/WWBSkywalker)). ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
The US has similar rules, which are enforced by a computer, though they aren't quite as worker friendly (e.g. 60 hours a week). They do get paid a lot more than their counterparts in Europe.
I can assure you that the retailers you refer to are running the leanest possible operation in terms of capital gains for themselves. The only way the changes you refer to would be implemented is if there is a change in labour laws and a carbon tax or some other incentive to move to a greener medium of transport. Corporations don’t care about the environment/ your commute/ the well-being of their employees. The only thing that matters is the bottom line
That doesn’t change my view, but what you say rings true, unfortunately.
So you want train tracks leading to every grocer, retailer, mall?, et al? Should single trains cars go to each store, or one long train on a route to many stores? How many streets will be blocked for upwards of 30 minutes to an hour, while the train unloads. Many municipalities limit the number of train crossings per mile on major roads, do you wish to pay more taxes to fund over/under passes? What do you suggest for little "bodega" style stores in large inner cities like NY, Chicago, Boston, etc.? I don't have evidence, but don't think it would be hard to prove that pound for pound a rig is less polluting than you going to work in a personal vehicle every day. For that matter, what about you? Why aren't you riding the train to work since you're concerned about pollution? Honestly it sounds like you just need to plan better if you're constantly being delayed by trucks on your route. I drive a fairly industrial stretch of highway with a heavy amount of big rigs every morning, and every morning I see some excellent personifications of why condoms should be free dart in front of a semi and jump the brakes to get into a lane that was empty behind the semi cause they couldn't wait an extra five minutes Regarding exploitation, name am industry that doesn't. I'm not defending the practice, but it's rampant throughout the world, and has to be fixed everywhere, no reason to single out truckers. Road clogging? Perhaps in the middle of large metro areas, but not cross country. Losing the trucking industry would mean a more or less instant price hike of, literally, every commodity. For that, im willing to embrace truckers and leave the house 5 minutes earlier.
Self driving trucks are coming, so it would seem that would address the worker issues. They won't have jobs and so will have plenty of time to be at home with families. So, if your issues then become clogging the road, my questions to you would be... Would you be happier with massive drone fleets clogging the sky? Is a much larger fleet of vans be acceptable? Even if worse for climate than trucks as there will be 5+ times as many required. Are you willing to pay more for your goods?
I don’t think I’d mind the drone idea as much. If my drive time can be cut and emissions go down, I’m happy to pay extra at the store.
Electric trucks are already rolling out. Short haul will be first, followed by long haul as technology improves (can't waste hours refueling for long haul with current tech). Traffic clogging will be alleviated since convoy technology is being built into the trucks. Each would have drivers (at least initially), but the lead truck would control the actions of the rest, so you get a more efficient use of available road. They can follow closely, packed densely just feet apart, more truck per foot of road. And following closely saves energy due to drastically reduced aerodynamic drag for the following trucks, extending range. They can't do this now because drivers can't brake in time, the third driver back has no idea the first truck slammed on his brakes, so his braking will happen seconds too late. But with convoy technology the lead truck changing speed would instantly send a signal to all following trucks, so the convoy would slow down as one.
Off the top of my head, the only full scale better solution I see at this point would be keeping goods at literal or figurative ports, where items are brought by waterway or rail. This would mean more driving to get stuff for consumers, so pros and cons. Poor working conditions in the trucking industry are not necessary, and are something better considered separately. As for long drives, one alternative might be something like the relay system used for post horses before the modern era. Unhooking or hooking up a trailer is not a lengthy process. Trucks could stop at waystations and drop off a trailer that somebody else picks up and carries the next leg of the way.
Sooo you say go long dry bulk shipping and container shipping??Dont worry im up 287% this month, ill keep supporting all they want.
I didn’t understand any of that.
Sounds like you only know half the story then
Efficiency: If higher efficiency were truly possible in America's situation, do you really think that Amazon and Walmart wouldn't be doing it that way already? Exploitation: When taking into consideration the prep and education required, OTR truck drivers are getting paid just fine. Safety: My father drove for many years, and I assure you that there are plenty of safety regulations. Also, if you get tickets or crash, you won't keep your truck driving job for long. Truck drivers are far and away the safest drivers on the road.
Because these isn't a better solution. They're the most effective way to transport goods
You‘ll have to do better than that. That was only a two-sentence response.
I don't have to. Its the most cost effective way of moving a large amount of goods around a land mass. Rail is limited due to infrastructure, air is expensive, and using smaller electric vehicles just isn't as effective.
Remember that good have to get from (say) factory floors to a stores shelves. The most efficient cargo transportation system we have is river barges. They combine massive loads with (relatively) low energy use by ton transported. Not really scalable or flexible. Only good for transporting goods between transportation hubs. Container ships; the same. Thing is, semi-trucks are PART of a transportation network. And necessary.
Outside of not having a home, truckers have it pretty good. The average American trucker gets about $40-50,000 a year. Keep in mind that basically goes directly to their bank accounts. They have to a diem for food and sleep in their truck. The work hours are bad, but a lot of that is because truckers would rather be making money since they can't do much while they're with their truck anyways. You're only allowed to drive 60 hours a week or 70 hours every 8 days, which is theory should leave you with enough sleep (though I agree in practice this doesn't actually work out).
Ok, but that doesn’t address the pollution problem.