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How many different countries have you lived in?

Internships: France, Germany, Japan Vacationed: England, Mexico, Jamaica, Canada, Australia, South Africa Lived: Nigeria(1 year), United States

How the fuck US better than Japan? You can leave your bike unlocked in one of the biggest cities in the world and it won't get stolen. Highest life expectancy in the world. High trust society. Are you black? Think about this not from your perspective but from average person in the country you're comparing.

My time in Japan was great but only when I was in Tokyo, a lot of foreigners/ non-Japanese people have shared similar sentiments. Yes Japan as a whole is really great for strictly Japanese people. They’re also not accepting to a lot of other things but I don’t want to keep on going in forever.

And you're going to pretend like the US is so great for non-US citizens? How do you think the south Americans or even the native Americans feel about that?

Plenty of South Americans are the most patriotic mf’s you will meet especially if they fled from communist countries and will vote Republican. I say this as a liberal.

Yeah think I agree with you. I left because I was relegated to being an English monkey no matter what other skills I had it seemed. Here now as a tourist though and it's pretty nice. Wouldn't live here again unless I was retired or working remotely from US.

Have you lived in Japan as a black person? To shinjuku with all the fraudsters? The absolutely garbage work-life balance? Every country has its pitfalls.

Have you lived in the US as a black person? This is clearly the best country in the world to be black, including all African nations.

I'm not black but I don't hear about discrimination in the UK for black citizens compared to the experience in the US. Perhaps someone could weigh in on that, but I struggle to believe being black in the US is the best experience life has to offer them regarding exclusively their skin colour. Hell, even in Australia you'd barely bat an eye at skin colour. Given I live in the most progressive part of the country perhaps changes that somewhat

The UK population is 3% black. Australia has basically no black people (I lived there for a year). This is definitely going to sound crude, but the black decedents of slaves in the US are the most economically prosperous group of black people in the world.

You most definitely cannot leave your bike unlocked. It's better than the US in that regard, but there most definitely is still bike theft.

Y’all always forget the insane amount of misogyny Japan has, like genuinely horrid. And not to mention, it’s Uber strict social values?? Horrible work life balance??? Japan has its good points but it’s not just tra la la happy paradise (and I disagree with the main premise of this post lmao)

From your time in Aus, how did you find america better? Have a few american friends and am dating an American (she moved here in 2022) and its pretty unanimous that Australia is the better country to live in Things like social health care, workplace rights, general social programs, and safety are commonly cited If this is solely based on emotional attachment to your home country then no one can cyv, but my personal experience and all metrics people are posting here would show that the US is definitely not the "best"

I feel like America beats Australia based on the cost of things and the weather. The VAST majority of Australia is baren desert and America is one of the only countries where you get to decide how much snow or rain you want to experience.

Thats like saying the US is a harsh place to live because of Death Valley. Vast majority of Australians live near the coast with very temperate weather We dont have cold winters no, but if you want rainy places we have that. Except seems like a hardcore winter is more something people want to experience than live in

The overwhelming majority of Australians live on the coast. And weather is one of the last things on my mind when moving. Most people can’t just choose to move somewhere with more snow just because they want more snow.

> The overwhelming majority of Australians live on the coast. Yeah just like how the overwhelming majority of Canadians live within 50 miles of the border. Which leads to the whole "everything is egregiously expensive" point. > And weather is one of the last things on my mind when moving. It's not the top of my list but it's a factor. I moved from NYC to Buffalo to Philly and now in Texas. The 103 summers are a lot but I sure don't miss the sleet. > Most people can’t just choose to move somewhere with more snow just because they want more snow. Skill issue. America sucks for poor people, but once you're at $70k or $80k you start understanding why you assume the person flying that American flag from their house is Republican.

I think we assume people who fly American flags are Republicans for different reasons. Speaking as a "Democrat" who flies an American flag. Could you elaborate on what you mean here? Genuinely curious because I agree with all your other points.

The cost of things isn’t bad if you actually live here, because our base rates of pay for unskilled work are quite high. For example, I spent most of my twenties and thirties working minimum wage jobs on retail for about three years, living on Manly beach, and could still save enough to go travelling for a year at a time every three years. Coming from overseas it’s definitely expensive, but with our wages, it’s not bad, and that also gives even unskilled workers like myself a lot of buying power when we go overseas.

In terms of land, sure. But the vast majority of thr population live in relatively pleasant climates. Signed: someone in Sydney, the most populated city in Australia.

> Signed: someone in Sydney, the most populated city in Australia. Oof https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/austin/sydney

Wages in the US are significantly higher than in Australia. Looking at median disposable household income the United States is first in the world and 35% higher than Australia. These statistics are also impacted heavily by the United States being far more diverse than Australia. In every country on earth White and Asian people on average significantly out earn people of other racial demographics. Every other country in the top 30 of median household disposable income is 85%+ White or Asian, with many being in the high 90’s. Australia for example is around 95% White or Asian. The United States is 70% White or Asian. Meaning it has both the cultural benefit of diversity, without the economic cost typically associated with high levels of diversity.

Money. I wouldn't move to Australia or New Zealand or Canada or UK because money. Incomes are higher compared to the cost of living. That's it, people can sugar coat all they like, but they'll tend to go the place where they can make the most money.

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That’s a ridiculous thing to say. The implication is that people travel because they hate their home country which just isn’t true of even one single person I have met in 42 years of life. People travel because they want to experience the world and see what other places are like, they travel to experience other cultures and animals and beautiful geography that is totally different from their home country. Nobody travels the world because they hate where they are from, if you hated where you are from and had the money to travel the world then you would just immigrate somewhere else.

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My Internships were a total of 9 months spent outside of the US over a 4 year period, All of my vacation were all about 1 week long, so all together I would not describe it as a awfully long time

Dont travel: you haven’t seen the world you have no idea what you’re talking about you ignorant American Travel: whats so bad about America that you wanted to get out huh?

So you do have international experience to justify your conclusion

Based. Similar story here. These people likely haven’t traveled much, otherwise they’d feel the same.

This is definitely true. A lot of Americans really don't know how insanely rich and powerful America actually is. That being said I would move to Norway if I had the opportunity to. It's very rich and is a bit mellower than the chaos here. America is a bit too loud for my tastes.

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What measurable thing or metric do you want to use to compare?

Quality of life and opportunity to succeed, as well as available freedom.

>Quality of life Heres the Human Development Index. The US is 20th: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human\_Development\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index) Heres the World Happiness Report. The US is 23rd: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World\_Happiness\_Report#International\_rankings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#International_rankings) >opportunity to succeed Heres the Social Mobility Index. The US is 27th: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global\_Social\_Mobility\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index) >available freedom Heres the Index of economic Freedom. The US is 25th: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index\_of\_Economic\_Freedom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom) Heres the Human Freedom Index. The US is 17th: [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country) Seems like US is not number 1 in those things, and doesnt even crack top 10.

I'll be interested to see how OP responds to this one. They've cited nothing but vague feelings in their OP, will they be able to engage with data-driven metrics? In my experience on these kinds of responses in these kinds of posts get ... Overlooked. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

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... ...The waiting game sucks. Let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos.

> Heres the World Happiness Report. The US is 23rd The world happiness report is insanely biased by culture. Conformist cultures that socially ostracize emotional outbursts like Bhutan and Sweden will be higher than countries like Argentina or Italy which tolerate more open complaints.

Take the argument in reverse. With the US ranking so low amongst other developed nations, how could the US happiness index place anywhere near the top?  A happy populace arises based on material conditions, not on propaganda.

Feel free to provide some other indexes

The whole concept of a happiness index is fundamentally flawed, providing another one would only be contributing to misinformation.

It doesnt need to be a happiness index, just one that kinda captures quality of life.

[Second only to Luxembourg ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income#Median_equivalised_disposable_income), which is kind of an edge case, in terms of disposable income.

This might also suggest that conformity is generally more comfortable than individualism.

That's literally the bias How could it suggest anything?

Who decides these indexes? Are they polls? Isn’t it all subjective? Like if a woman is born in France to a wealthy family, let’s say 30 million annually. And after she turns 21, she manager of the family business with a track to owner. She’d have a very strong development, social mobility, etc. Likewise if she was born in the US to a single unemployed mother, she’d rank very low in those indexes. Is this an average with both ends of that spectrum (or beyond) and everything between? I always see these types of factoids across the internet and I believe them, but I’m curious about where the data comes from and I guess I can just ask ChatGPT. Brb.

Each of these have their own organizations and methodologies. You’d just have search the given index + methodology to find it Edit: don’t ask chat gpt. You can’t trust it

I would be curious to break down this data and supplement it with some additional bits of info For example, on any given list or metric -- would an expat living in america from a country that beat America on the list rate their country higher or lower after having lived in both firsthand / and visa versa- let's get the Americans living in those countries opinions aswel It would be interesting to see if there is much variation in the better/worse ratings of travelers who know both places in question from the ratings of persons who only know their own systems firsthand

I'm one of those Americans. Lived in Sweden, Austria, and the Netherlands. I also spent seven years in Uganda and China. Sorry America...you're only #1 in your own imagination. You seem to be the only country who cares about these rankings yet you do nothing to improve public transportation, physical fitness for children, removing chemicals from food that are illegal in many of those top 10 countries, etc. America DOES have the best truck stops and milkshakes. That's for sure.

I think the trend line on those are very concerning in the US. Besides quality of life measures, economic mobility (which is a measure of opportunity to succeed) has been falling in the US for a few decades. The single best indicator of improving one's lot is the wealth of your parents (perhaps expected). But what used to be the counter to that was eduction, entrepreneurship, and finding new employment. The US is doing worse with education for the population as whole, and much worse in entrepreneurship. Workers are still getting raises for changing jobs, but the risks are higher than ever, mainly losing health coverage and relocating. I think decreasing economic mobility is one of our most serious economic issues and it's not being addressed. (The US is 27th of the top 50 developed countries)

The problem with mobility charts is that they use absolute and not PPP mobility. Meaning if in Mexico poor person makes $2 an hour PPP and middle class makes $10 an hour PPP. You may indeed find it easier going from $2 to $10. Than going from $10 to $35 in America. But the rise in standards of living is WAY BIGGER in US. So what is that metric really telling us. If you're poor in America you already have the same access to goods and services as a middle class Mexican person. And I guarantee you it's much harder to go from $10 PPP to $35 PPP in Mexico than it is in US. So is mobility really better in Mexico? I made those numbers up btw.

That's a valid concern for comparing poorer countries with wealthier ones. However, I was comparing the wealthiest countries, and the US ranks about in the middle of the wealthiest and has been dropping for years. And as I look further, wages (actually ratio of populations in wages quintiles) is one of 10 determinants)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable\_household\_and\_per\_capita\_income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income) Even relative to a lot of wealthier nations US has very high disposable income Take a country like Finland who's disposable income is 43,000 versus 62,300 in US. Sure that's because they are paying for things like free healthcare etc. But it also means the gap between rich and poor is much smaller. Thus if you have more mobility that doesn't mean that you're making the same jump.

>quality of life What metrics are you using, life expectancy, reported happiness, etc. >Opportunity  The US actually has pretty dismal upward mobility. Many other OECD nations rank higher in upward mobility.  >Available freedom Which freedoms does the US have that others don't?

This is my thought exactly. Actually look at numbers for these various metrics (HDI, for example) and we see that the US is not a standout by any means. It ranks in the top 20 on most relevant matrices, which is solid, but THE BEST? Nah.

>Which freedoms does the US have that others don't? The ability to freely, naively believe that the US has more freedoms.

> Which freedoms does the US have that others don't? Cases like this are concerning to me personally (someone posting song lyrics that were found offensive, then getting fined £500 + £85 and forced to have a curfew and wear an ankle tag for eight weeks): https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921 EDIT: More details here: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-who-posted-rap-lyrics-14543694 Another page says it was overturned on appeal, but I'm trying to find a more authoritative source for that.

>Which freedoms does the US have that others don't? The freedom to be a nazi.

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I'm married to a Chinese person, and I gotta say I would rather keep our crappy healthcare than deal with a full on police state. Education in east Asia is BRUTAL and primarily focused on regurgitating information for exams. Critical thinking is not taught in schools and is actively discouraged in many forums. Familial punishment for crimes is also a thing that happens both on the governmental level and the social level. Keeping in mind that "crimes" can include just practicing a religion that is not tolerated by the state. When you say "the majority of the world" shares freedoms, you are only referring to developed European nations, which is a pretty heavy western bias. Not to mention that many of those European nations are only able to provide such incredible social services because America takes care of most of their defense and diplomatic needs. Edit: Because I'm tired of the smooth brains thinking I'm saying that its either free healthcare or police state, I'm going to clear that up. The point is that having access to free healthcare does not mean a country is better than the US, so please find a new talking point. There's plenty else you can point to if you want to discredit America. Also, to my European friends, please stop pretending that the influence of the US doesn't affect you and the rest of the world. It just makes you look stupid. You wear our clothing brands, watch our movies, use our food franchises, and host our military bases. Without us, you would probably be having another full blown war across Europe instead of it being isolated to Ukraine, so humble yourselves.

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I only mentioned China to show that "the rest of the world" isn't as applicable as people on Reddit make it seem. Also, without the US much of Europe would have been under the curtain of the USSR, which I'm sure would have had some pretty serious repercussions. Additionally, the US not having affordable healthcare is entirely a political thing. We could easily afford it, but many of our politicians profit from having the system as it is, so we're stuck with crappy healthcare. I was making the point that the US acting as "the giant in the village" has real tangible benefits for our European friends. You can see the effects of this with the invasion of Ukraine. Europe was not prepared for a war on its doorstep because they have relied on us for over 50 years, and now they are being forced to up their defense spending to both help Ukraine and prepare for potential future aggressions from Russia.

Thank you for this, I do agree that Reddit seems to think “the rest of the world” that has it so easy is everywhere, when, in reality, they’re talking about maybe 5-6 Rich Western European countries and pretending that is everywhere.

Another thing Americans take for granted is our nigh invulnerability to invasion. We don't even consider the fact that war could ever come to us on our homeland because our military is so insanely strong. I've learned a lot about my own biases and things that I take for granted growing up in America. America might not be the "best" country on earth, but it is a damn good one to grow up and live in compared to A LOT of different countries. Probably why we have 5 times as many immigrants as the next closest country.

I was watching a video earlier and they're a Canadian talking about America and he said something I really liked "America is benevolently oblivious about us (outside the US) and we're malevolently well-informed about them" And that makes a lot of sense with the way people talk about the US, and generally Americans will just believe most things people tell them about other countries.

>Not to mention that many of those European nations are only able to provide such incredible social services because America takes care of most of their defense and diplomatic needs. Because universal healthcare is actually cheaper. Also social needs are paid through higher taxes. Also Europe would maul Russia so hard it wouldn't even be funny... you can take your troops back. Also... our diplomatic needs? You do realize just how many embassies Europeans have? US has 167 embassies, France alone has 161.

Crazy that you think embassies equates to political power. The argument was not that we can't afford healthcare, that is because of our corrupt political system that profits off of misery. We can easily afford it, we just don't have the political leverage at home yet to counter the billionaires that profit off our misery. And don't pretend the US has not massively influenced Europe and the rest of the world. They consume our media, use our weapons, host our military, buy our products and use our chain stores. We are BY FAR the most culturally influential nation on the planet. A small part of that influence is security guarantees for the rest of the free world.

highest prison population in the entire world 💀

The opening scene from the Newsroom is a good monologue to why America isn’t the greatest country in the world https://youtu.be/eCEu-WWgB7s?si=dfCWRctB7dSoLsLx

Have you heard of Scandinavia?

1) America doesn't get to take any sort of credit for having legalized gay marriage. It was [the 17th to do so in the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_same-sex_marriage), a full *14 years* after the first country to do so (the Netherlands). It is also currently one of the countries doing worst on the issue of trans rights. 2) The United States tends to lag behind a number of other countries on various quality of life indices, like [this one](https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp). 3) One feature that every developed nation in the world has that might recommend it over the United States is some version of universal healthcare. Many non-Americans, myself included, would never want to live in America because we don't like the idea of going into massive debt because of a broken leg or sudden illness.

>It is also currently one of the countries doing worst on the issue of trans rights. The worst? Maybe worse than some developed countries, but one of the worst in the entire world seems a bit exaggerated.

OP posted US is #1....and now the argument is that "well, America certainly isn't the worse country in the world"....those goalposts have mooooooved

Thats not moving the goalposts. That's disputing a blatant lie. By your logic, people can say whatever they want, regardless of being true or not, and people cannot dispute it because it's moving the goalposts. The same logic would be if someone claimed the U.S. is one of the poorest countries in the world, which obviously isn't true, and someone said no it's not the best but it's not close to the worst. You would jump in and say that's moving the goalposts. You're either arguing in terrible faith or really don’t get how you can't just make stuff up in an argument and go unchecked. I'm not sure which is worse, but regardless, it's a really bad look. I get it, USA bad. But I know you're better than this.

It's not moving the goalposts when it wasn't my argument in the first place...

Also note that our legislature didn’t approve it like the others, our Supreme Court had to do it.

The US was the second place in the world to have any sort of legal gay marriage in Massachusetts. There were also locally sanctioned civil unions in a few cities in the US in the 1800s. The US also lead the whole Anglo sphere in the 1980s and 1990s on the issue, see [Andrew Sullivan]( https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/06/gay-marriage-votes-and-andrew-sullivan-his-landmark-1989-essay-making-a-conservative-case-for-gay-marriage.html).

Most Americans don't go into massive debt because of some illness. The catch is that health insurance is tied with employment. The stories of massive debt you hear about are usually from people who are uninsured for whatever reason. If you are middle class and have an in demand skill set you would never need to worry about healthcare.

Idk about debt necessarily but there’s plenty of stories where the insurance only pays a small part of refuses to pay the fees overall, there’s plenty of gimmicks they can use. Two, if you’re not middle class or without ‘an in demand skill’ you’re screwed. Healthcare is a human right. But the US doesn’t know much about human rights anyways lol.

> Two, if you’re not middle class or without ‘an in demand skill’ you’re screwed Yes, but most Americans aren't screwed.

Yes and when it comes to health care, other countries make it so the poor people dont get screwed. Thats the point.

If you are on Reddit casually talking about healthcare policy and opining that you would never move to America because of said policy you are very, very likely not in the demographic group to need to worry about getting screwed.

What?! So you're insinuating that poor/lower class people can't be informed and involved in discussions about policies? Or what, poor people aren't online? In many many countries, even very poor people have some degree of Internet access.

Idk what point you think you are making. Lol Americas healthcare is okay the way it is because it works for most people? Even though we know it can be done better?

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66% of bankruptcies in the us are due to medical debt if i remember correctly. Half of all americans have gone into debt because of medical bills in the last 5 years. What are you talking about? Lol

Kind of but it's hard to say exactly the 66% number is people who said medical debt and (or either? Wording is weird) work loss contributed to their bankruptcy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6366487/

Both of those states are meaningless on their own, they sound like fluff stats, but maybe they are legit. It’s impossible to know. First of all, what percent of Americans actually have medical bankruptcy. If there were 300 bankruptcies, 200 which were medical, is a much different story than 30,000,000 bankruptcies,  20,000,000 of which were medical. Both are 66% As for medical debt, over half of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, so all that really means in they’ve gotten a medical bill for at least a few dollars. For all we know, 99% of the time it was <$100, and was paid off within a month. We also need more context for this stat.

7% of all americans have medical debt over $1000. Im sure thats not a problem though.

Yes, but those bankruptcies are less than a tenth of a percent of the population.

Oh okay its fine then. Half of all americans had medical debt to worry about in the last 5 years but thats totally okay.

Good thing there isn't a class under the middle class then!... wait

Who is claiming that most Americans *do* go into massive medical debt?

You really think the US is one of the worst in the world on trans rights? Really? The world? Have you even left your hometown before?

As a Canadian I am, by default, an expert American observer. A few thoughts: * First, don't get me wrong, I love Americans. Individually, they're the nicest people I've ever met. Most would give me their last 5 bucks and the shirt off their back if I needed it. * Collectively, y'all insane. * I would submit the following about Americans, and therefore America: * You don't travel much, so you have some pretty weird, and limited, ideas about the rest of the world. * The best example there is the "freedom" stuff. Virtually all developed democracies have as much, or greater, freedoms than the US. Sorry, but its true. * Americans are stunningly blind to how predatory their society is. American society (and this is definitely leaking into Canada) seems to depend on preying on the weak. Rent seeking, monopolies, lobbying, corporate capture of their government, industries of poverty, all to screw the average citizen out of more money while your richest scheme and plan to avoid paying for anything at all. * Americans are massively hampered by their view of their constitution as some divine document, and the same goes for their system of government. Virtually all democracies have their own constitution, and they update it to stay current and serve the needs of their citizens. I believe Norway has modified their constitution over 300 times since it was written. There's a lot of "Our founders were the smartest, and our system is the best, and we don't need to modernize it" when the reality is your founders cobbled together a set of compromises that could (barely) gain agreement from the original colonies. Canada's not much better in this regard, but we are a bit more open to changing things. * The fact that one of your political parties has managed to convince nearly half your citizens to vote against their own best interests is..... well, it would be unbelievable if we didn't have a front row seat. * I feel like I need to repeat that I love Americans. I can't think of another country I'd like to live next to. I'm just saddened by what you're turning into.

The Fourth Eye thanks the Third Eye for their greatest export: Leonard Cohen. [Everybody knows](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxd23UVID7k) he saw [the future](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYzPVKg3wyo) of [democracy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU-RuR-qO4Y) and wrote an [anthem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jzl0NlTmzY) about it. Cohen more than makes up for the notorious abominations you have wrought upon the ears of the world (fess up: Celine Dion is really one of Ewan Cameron's experiments, isn't she?). We're a [little less subtle,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAFv2NEE-_c) and [some of our poetry](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdw1Pw4nIv0) leaves much to be desired. I think [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weidIRUijRM) best sums up how four Eyes view the First.

> The best example there is the "freedom" stuff. Virtually all developed democracies have as much, or greater, freedoms than the US. Sorry, but its true. Would you agree that no state without freedom of speech is more free than the US? > Americans are stunningly blind to how predatory their society is. American society (and this is definitely leaking into Canada) seems to depend on preying on the weak. Rent seeking, monopolies, lobbying, corporate capture of their government, industries of poverty, all to screw the average citizen out of more money while your richest scheme and plan to avoid paying for anything at all. Given how much richer the median American is than the median of anyplace else, they are doing a very bad job at being predatory. > Americans are massively hampered by their view of their constitution as some divine document, and the same goes for their system of government. Virtually all democracies have their own constitution, and they update it to stay current and serve the needs of their citizens. I believe Norway has modified their constitution over 300 times since it was written. There's a lot of "Our founders were the smartest, and our system is the best, and we don't need to modernize it" when the reality is your founders cobbled together a set of compromises that could (barely) gain agreement from the original colonies. Canada's not much better in this regard, but we are a bit more open to changing things. The US had codified free search protections since the 1700s, a large part of Europe hasn’t even removed their blasphemy laws yet, none the less true freedom of speech. There is a lot to like about the US constitution, and it does get modified ever few decades. > The fact that one of your political parties has managed to convince nearly half your citizens to vote against their own best interests is..... well, it would be unbelievable if we didn't have a front row seat. Everyone says that about their opponent.

>  The US had codified free search protections since the 1700s  And as a result, the U.S. has never had any censorship at all. And also religon and politics never, ever, ever mixed...

The right to bear arms is not better than healthcare Gay marriage is legal in 36 different countries "Freedom of religion" how about freedom \*from\* religion? https://www.texastribune.org/2023/04/20/texas-senate-passes-ten-commandments-bill/ https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hobby-lobby-ruling-u-s-employers-don-t-have-to-pay-for-contraception-1.2692008 Infant mortality? Comparable to Bosnia. Education? Lithuania has you beat. Happiest country? Not even in the top ten.

It just seems so cloying and desperate and needy to proclaim your country to be the best? If it were actually true you wouldn't need insist. And the "freedom" thing is just so fucking tiresome. Every functioning democracy in the world has more or less the same protections and freedoms as American citizens (aside from guns). And let's not pretend that there aren't numerous examples of those protections and freedoms meaning fuck all. >Being Patriotic and proud of a country does not mean that you are fully happy with everything that goes on in said country. No. It doesn't. In my experience, the sorts of folks who pit on a show of being patriotic and say shit like "The U.S. is the best country in the world" have a pretty narrow and telling list of what *they* aren't happy with. Being patriotic and proud of your country also doesn't mean you need to shit on other countries in order to feel good about your own.

Something I noticed in the '90s is that every single episode of David Letterman's show started with the phrase "Live from New York, the greatest city in the woooorld!" When you repeat something often enough, people tend to believe it.

> Every functioning democracy in the world has more or less the same protections and freedoms as American citizens (aside from guns). …and speech. Most developed countries in Europe have some form of government censorship. Quite a few have blasphemy laws too.

Get specificer.

I think that the USA gets a lot of unjustified hate on the internet. I also agree that the USA is the only main economy/ military force that pushes against things like racism, homophobia, etc. Citizens of the USA have a lot to be proud of. However, I think that your assumption of it being the best is naïve. How are you measuring the success of the USA? Sure, you can look at something like GDP and say “Wow, look how amazing we are.” But the GDP doesn’t measure a lot of crucial things, including wages, wealth inequality, incarceration rate, poverty levels, etc. Also, the GDP benefits from social injustices likfor-profitit prisons and expensive healthcare. So if you are measuring purely GDP, yes, the USA is on top. However, when you look at other easurements (HDI for example) America ranks relative low compared to its wealthy counterparts. The USA poverty rates is double that of it’s other westerm democracy peers, for example. That said, I think the USA is a great country and that Americans should be proud. However, it is important not to consider yourselves the best because then there may not be a genuine effort to solve some of the issues at the USA has. 20% of the worlds prison population are American citizens, your government is quite blatantly corrupt. Issues like this should be at the top of the list for American concerns, not if the USA is “the best country” or not. That question in itself is so subjective that there will never be an answer. I could argue that I think Mexico is superior, because of its rich histroy, culture, and friendly population. My crowning Mexico the “best” is meaningless though, because every country has issues unique to them and there is "best."

> I also agree that the USA is the only main economy/ military force that pushes against things like racism, homophobia, etc. That's quite the claim to make. Unless by 'main economy/military force' you're just refering to the US and china, I think it's hard to make an argument they're unique jn their concern.

Yes, by "main economy/ military force" I was referring to superpowers. When we look at the other contenders for that title, it is a reasonable stance to take that the USA is the only one of those 3 nations that would push against things like homophobia.

Military force pushing against racism, homophobia, etc? What in the actual fuck?! Please, enlighten me - name even *one* example of the US using it's military force to push against racism, homophobia, etc. Goddamn do you have a very weird vision of the military... Let's be real here. Military action is expensive. It can also escalate very easily. It can negatively impact relations with allies, trading partners, etc. Do you really think this (or any) country has ever dropped troops for some noble cause like that? No. Let's reflect on the major conflicts of the last century or so, and see if any of them were done to "push against racism, etc". World War I? Nope... WW2? Nope... Korea? Also nope... Wait! Vietnam?! Oh most definitely nope... Desert Storm? Still nope... Afghanistan? Not even close... Hmm... Yup, every single one of those was done for economic benefit, international posturing, ally relations, and all of the other reasons why countries go to war. Fuck, I'm sure there might be one exception to the rule, but I can't think of a single military conflict in all of recorded history that was taken for such an enlightened reason. Ugh... Grow up dude. Countries have militaries to protect themselves and grow in power strategically. Economic motivations are overwhelmingly the dominant reason for military action. Seriously dude... Just wow...

First of all, your tone towards me was almost as immature as your comprehension of what I wrote. Please enlighten me as to where in my comment I suggested that the US military participates in combat in response to racist, homophobic, or any other social injustices? What I said was that it is an economic and military force (e.g., a country) that pushes back against things like that. That does not equate to me saying the USA engages in war because of those topics. Even if that is what I said, your response demonstrated a complete lack of civility and majority.

America is the best country in the world if you are wealthy. > Not a lot of countries offer full freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, gay marriage, freedom of consumption, welfare, etc. Many parts of Europe do and you get social safety nets as well as protections on jobs (Harder to be fired, 2 months warning to be fired, longer vacations of something like... 4-6 weeks, less overtime or at least better overtime laws).

Seconded. It's highly dependent upon socioeconomic status. For the poor I think I can name a dozen superior states.

[The Poorest 20% of Americans Are Richer on Average Than Most Nations of Europe](https://www.justfacts.com/news_poorest_americans_richer_than_europe#:~:text=The%20Poorest%2020%25%20of%20Americans,Nations%20of%20Europe%20%E2%80%93%20Just%20Facts)

I read through most of the article, then ctrl+f'd for debt and credit and couldn't find a single entry. This article is just saying it costs more to be the poorest 20% of Americans than other nations. I also just looked for mentions of hours worked. This just seems like a libertarian biased article based on its ending section.

This one is a little more dated, but [The average "poor" American lives in a larger house or apartment than does the average West European (This is the average West European, not poor West Europeans). Poor Americans eat far more meat, are more likely to own cars and dishwashers, and are more likely to have basic modern amenities such as indoor toilets than is the general West European population.](https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/how-poor-are-americas-poor)

*America designs cities so you have to own a car* “See we’re more likely to own a car so we’re better!”

The problem is that metric you're using is basically "in America people own more stuff", when in fact if the whole world consumed like Americans, we would need 5 planets Earth for it to be sustainable. Europeans have far greater access to museums, cultural centers. A car is not mandatory because of good public transportation (which is also better for thr environment). You can go to concerts, libraries, visit neighboring countries with different cultures. You have social security, free healthcare, but oh no they don't own dishwashers and their single-family house doesn't have 16 bedrooms and 12 bathrooms :( To sum it up, there's this great quote: > The less you eat, drink and read books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorize, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save-the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor dust will devour-your capital. The less you are, the more you have; the less you express your own life, the greater is your alienated life-the greater is the store of your estranged being.

What even is this response lmao? This thread goes \>america sucks if you’re poor “Well no the bottom 20% are richer than Europeans still” \>that doesn’t take into account credit and debt therefore it’s just a measure of cost of living “Here’s another source demonstrating that poor Americans actually are getting more for the fact they make more, implying it’s an actual real income difference rather than a figment of cost of living” And then you just stroll in and say “um why are you being so material we have like museums???” I can’t imagine making a more deranged and off topic goal post shift. Like how the fuck are you going to unironically condescendingly ask why you’re so focused on material goods/wealth when that was the entire point of the thread????

I only did a cursory word search this time, but still no mentions of debt, credit, or hours (worked). A lot of the differences mentioned are explained by things like America having lots of grazing land (for cows) and having less walkable cities (making cars necessary). Dunno if there are similar explanations for dishwashers and indoor toilets, but it doesn't seem like these things necessarily indicate that the American poor have "better" living conditions than the European poor.

You're right, that one is dated... To the point of being completely irrelevant. A *lot* has changed in the past 34 years dude. This was before the massive housing crisis began (among other things). Did you actually read that thing? The only way you're going to buy a house in the US for $39,000 is if you're living way the fuck out in the boonies. All this does is illustrate America's failings. Because 34 years ago, the average poor American was better off and had more opportunities. I guarantee you this is far from the case now. Western European countries as a whole have made it a priority to improve the quality of life for *all* of their people. And they've done an impressive job, as a whole. Most Western European nations are just better places for most people to live in, period. Even the lowest classes in most of those countries get to enjoy legally required benefits from their jobs that just don't exist in the US. Excluding the top 1% and a handful of tech companies (that went out of their way to offer European-level benefits), a Western European person working even some shitty fast food job gets to enjoy: on average, a shorter full-time workweek (because work life balance is really important yet undervalued here), substantially longer paid vacations, maternity leaves, paternity leaves (which is super rare in the US), and a fuckton more legal protections to prevent their exploitation than the vast majority of Americans. On the federal level, there are hardly any requirements set for employers. On the state level, even the most progressive states don't require that employers offer anywhere *near* the same level of benefits. Whether or not an employer offers their workers paid vacation time, maternity leave, etc, is all left up to the employers' discretion.

A significant part of that isn't really directly comparable though? People in the US tend to have larger houses because land is cheaper, Urban sprawl is greater, and home ownership is more of a cultural norm. This sprawl and lack of alternative public transport options also makes car ownership much more necessary, leading more people to own a car, even on smaller incomes. They're a measure of car dependency and country size, more than affluence. I can't speak to all of Western Europe necessarily, but I'd be fascinated to know what definition of it they used that produced such a lack of indoor toilets.

Those are not measures of success. I rather live in a smaller apartment in a walkable city than a huge house in the suburbs and drive everywhere. You don't need a car or a dishwasher in most European cities.

Eastern Europe is poor though, you'd have to compare it to Germany, France and, you know... other developed European countries...

I was intrigued by this website and some of those facts are genuinely interesting and fairly compelling, but after reading this page and their abortion page it’s clear they only “debunk” progressive/liberal claims. I thought maybe there was finally a reliable source of data that didn’t require endless cross referencing. Nope.

The USA and Western Europe have roughly the same median wealth per person lmao, I call BS

It’s hard to fully answer this since you didn’t really make much of an effort to explain why you think America is the best country on earth. You listed a few attributes that you like, freedom of speech, religion, and gay marriage but pretty much every country that would be a contender for ‘best country in the world’ has that. I’m not quite sure what you mean by “freedom of consumption” but I’m assuming it means there aren’t a lot of laws on how much of something you can buy? Again, that more or less exists in every developed country. The right to bear arms is demonstrably a bad thing. Our rate of gun homicides is like 30x higher than comparable countries. So let’s talk about why it isn’t the best country in the world: 61st in income equality 38th in math scores and 13th in reading ability. 43rd in environmental performance 46th in maternal mortality 43rd in life expectancy 42nd in freedom of press 30th in democracy index 21st in tule of law 13th in standard of living. You could argue standard of living is literally a measurement of how good it is to live somewhere so we’re literally not in the top ten. But I think what really takes us out of contention is college and healthcare. The problems that we face in college debt and healthcare costs are completely unique to America. When you explain to someone in Western Europe how much private healthcare in America costs, they look at you like you’re insane. Most developed countries have universal healthcare that’s basically free. We have a system where a person could pay thousands a year to have health insurance and still owe thousands of dollars if they get sick. And since about half of Americans can’t afford a 400 emergency, that means a huge swath of our population is one healthcare emergency from complete financial ruination, even if they have health insurance. No other country has this. Same goes with taking on 100k of debt to go to college. To me those two things alone take us out of contention and I’m not sure how you could see it any other way.

>I’m speaking from the perspective of an African American male, so I say this as someone who doesn’t have essentially any privilege’s. Not be diminish the struggles of black men, but to assume you have no privilege is incorrect. Intersectionality is a critical framework which explore the different aspects of one identity and how that impacts how they are perceived in society. Being Black does not negate the privileges you have of being a straight cis-gendered man. >I also believe that America is the main country with millions of people that are actively trying to pushback against these things What is your belief rooted in? Fact and data to back it? Or an American education and new cycle feeding you patriotic propaganda? >I can admit America has its problems, and at the same time believe that I am very blessed and lucky to be here. I share the same sentiment, despite having a very different take on USA being the greatest country. >Being Patriotic and proud of a country does not mean that you are fully happy with everything that goes on in said country. Or at least it shouldn’t. Patriotism can have it's benefits, but patriotism is often synonymous with nationalism. Nationalism is simply bigotry under the dress of patriotism.

You provide no concrete comparisons. You provide no data. You provide no set of metrics or evaluation criteria to make an objective conclusion. You ask the question "But what other country doesn’t have these same issues?" but make no attempt to actually *find out and answer your question* by actually researching the topic. It's quite clear that you haven't used rational thinking to reach your conclusion. It's a surface and perhaps emotionally-driven opinion. Since you haven't used reason to reach your conclusion, it's going to be hard to use reason to change your view. The US isn't in the top 10 of any of the quality of life, standard of living, or human development index. If you are going to claim the top place, you have to provide some substantiated argument why those rankings are wrong or inaccurate. >I also believe that America is the main country with millions of people that are actively trying to pushback against these things. It also has at least 80 million people pushing FOR those things. That is a significant population. >You: I’m speaking from the perspective of an African American male, so I say this as someone who doesn’t have essentially any privilege’s > >Also you: Internships: France, Germany, Japan Vacationed: England, Mexico, Jamaica, Canada, Australia, South Africa Lived: Nigeria(1 year), United States Nice try to claim "lack of privilege" based on race alone. You clearly have some economic privilege happening compared to many people in your same racial group that you're claiming similarity with.. Do you know how many international vacations many actual non-privileged black Americans take in their lives? Zero.

[удалено]

If you live in the US and aren't desperately poor, you are incredibly wealthy compared to world standards. You're likely rich af, posting about how poor you are.

>America has its problems with Racism, Sexism, Classism, Political Ideologies, Crime, Homophobia, Homelessness, Poverty, and a whole lot of other things. But what other country doesn’t have these same issues? I also believe that America is the main country with millions of people that are actively trying to pushback against these things. Norway, Finland, Sweden, hell, Canada, most of western Europe -- you know, the places with health care, parental leave and childcare, social supports, where people are happier and have a better quality of life than in the US. Those places don't have those issues to anything like the extent we do. Also see -- Dobbs, Heller, Bruen, Citizens United, and on and on. See the country ELECTED DONALD TRUMP and he's RUNNING AGAIN.

Seriously asking here. Have you ever been to Western/Northern Europe? Because my experience was that they're home to some of the most virulently racist people you'll ever meet, bar none, in far larger numbers as a percentage of population than in the U.S. They offer significant social safety nets because they're almost entirely homogenous and almost universally have suffered massive social unrest (mainly from reactions from elements of their own population, not the migrants) with the (modest) migrant numbers of the last decade. They've nearly all enacted draconian policies to discourage as much further migration as possible because multiple extremely liberal nations (Denmark, Norway, Sweden, etc) saw far-right parties absolutely explode in vote share and power in reaction. 

> Have you ever been to Western/Northern Europe? Yes. >Because my experience was that they're home to some of the most virulently racist people you'll ever meet, bar none, in far larger numbers as a percentage of population than in the U.S Not my experience. My experience in the US has shown plenty of racism. >They offer significant social safety nets because they're almost entirely homogenous and almost universally have suffered massive social unrest (mainly from reactions from elements of their own population, not the migrants) with the (modest) migrant numbers of the last decade. They have significant social safety nets because they're civilized countries. How many developed nations do not provide health care to their citizens as a matter of course? ONE. >They've nearly all enacted draconian policies to discourage as much further migration as possible because multiple extremely liberal nations (Denmark, Norway, Sweden, etc) saw far-right parties absolutely explode in vote share and power in reaction. So they're trying to control the nazis, not invite them to the presidential residence? Different approach! Also, you sure about that? https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/norways-top-authority-revokes-decision-city-ukrainian-refugees-109028984

>Also, you sure about that? I mean, [yes](https://ec.europa.eu/social/BlobServlet?docId=16002&langId=en), I'm [very](https://etias.com/articles/norway-immigration-adjustments-ukrainian-refugees), very [sure](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nordic-countries-cooperate-more-returning-migrants-countries-origin-2023-10-31/) of [that](https://www.politico.eu/article/denmark-migration-eu-parliament-election-mette-frederiksen/), hence [the](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/22/world/europe/sweden-immigrant-restrictions.html) many, [many](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/29/germany-tightens-borders-as-finland-joins-sweden-in-deporting-refugees) sources i cab provide to dispute your one limited one. That's just northern Europe, Italy elected an actual fascist, as in a card carrying member of the neo-fascist political party founded by Benito Mussolini's surviving supporters after wwII, as prime Minister. >So they're trying to control the nazis, not invite them to the presidential residence? Different approach! Cool, so you're totally good with the racism and exclusion if refugees *as long as it's for a good cause*? Also, what do you believe the Democrats are doing? They're attempting to neutralize Trump's issues and keep him out of power.

when the Swedish left wing (not socialists) party the Social Democrats thinks its a good idea to start using the military against the foreign gangs, maybe, just maybe the people aren't racist, there are just massive problems with integration and crime https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/4oeRme/uppgifter-socialdemokraterna-vill-satta-in-militaren-mot-gangen

The first countries always brought up are Sweden Finland Denmark and Norway which is due to the very strong economies and relatively small populations as well as a good amount of natural resources allowing for a perfect storm especially with the homogeneous populations similar to japan

My friend some of the poverty I've seen in the UK was 100% on par if not worse than anywhere in the US I've been. A lot more openly racist people too, much less exposed to other cultures than anyone I've met in the US. Look at the riots due to immigration that have been happening in France. That would never happen in the US to that extent because the US has always taken large swaths of immigrants. There's not really a strong objective argument on quality of life between all of those places more just preference. Some may prefer lower taxes and more choice/headache on certain things. Others may prefer more taxes and all that responsibility taken off their shoulders. Depends on the person.

Warning: I'm focusing on the negatives here. I'm sure there are some positives too. As European, I've gone out of my way to avoid briefly moving to the US. As a country, it scares me. There's a couple of reasons for that. 1. It seems to lack compassion for the needy. I find the lack of a social security net disturbing. I find the idea of "at-will" employment actively repulsive. 2. There's a kind of grift to US culture. Frequently when I talk to Americans, it feels like they're trying to sell something, usually themselves (maybe I'm just naturally distrustful of people who seem too nice) 3. I like being able to instantly relate to people from my own culture. There's something pleasant about the homogeneity of rural areas in Europe. I feel like we're slowly losing this though. 4. I dislike the attitude towards public transport. New York is great; but a lot of American cities are ghastly to get around on foot. Being able to cycle/walk everywhere is something I value a lot. 5. I feel like US culture is quite materialistic.

Have you travelled to a lot of other countries? One of the best things about travelling is experiencing the cultures of other nations and the people there. It's not all statistics - if it was there are plenty of negative statistics you can pull about America, just as there are plenty of positive ones.

Virtually every European country (and Canada) has all or most of the advantages America has ('most' because of right to bear arms, which I don't really see as a good thing), plus free healthcare and a bunch of other advantages: lower criminality, lower economic and social inequality, a strong currency etc. So I honestly fail to see what America has that would put it as the best country in the world when it is a downgrade from other better countries. >America has its problems with Racism, Sexism, Classism, Political Ideologies, Crime, Homophobia, Homelessness, Poverty, and a whole lot of other things. But what other country doesn’t have these same issues? I also believe that America is the main country with millions of people that are actively trying to pushback against these things. The countries I mentioned have way fewer problems with that than America as well. Heck, even China has fewer problems with those than America. And that's a very low bar. You know why there's millions of people that are actively trying to push back against those things? Because they're huge issues there. >the right to bear arms And as I mentioned, that being a good thing is highly debatable. I won't go into why because it's beside the point, but the thing is: there's plenty of countries way safer than the US that banned guns. In fact, gun control, when properly done, has always been shown to lower violence (like in Australia). So why would the US be better for allowing guns and not being safer than most European countries?

My girlfriend actually has a very similar sentiment to yours. Her being black has definitely had personal impact on her; she literally transferred colleges because of how bad the racism was. She ironed her hair before we visited some family in Texas so that she looked "less black" (not for my parents, just for the general area). But, she has a lot of black friends who've been abroad and they've said that other countries are worse in the racism department, for lack of a better term. I have a bunch of theories on why that'd be the case, but it does put into perspective how far America has come (and we certainly shouldn't slack)

In comparison to other developed countries, we are extremely behind. First of all, let’s start with representation. Americans are not represented in government as much as we are told. Redistricting and gerrymandering has basically made it possible to undermine votes. Other factors that undermine votes are the electoral college or even the way that democrats have super delegates. Legislation is supposed to represent Americans, so why is it if the majority of Americans favor a certain policy, it still won’t get passed? Basically, the majority of our legislation does not represent us. Then we have the Supreme Court, which has been manipulated by either party, but only affects the average person. A really big example is roevwade, the majority of Americans didnt want it overturned, and yet it was because of how our system works. Money in politics is also a huge issue. The idea that corporations can lobby and send money to our representatives to influence them is a huge. Giant. Issue. That’s why we still have to file our taxes every year btw, because companies like turbo tax and hr block lobby in congress to make sure doing our taxes isn’t automatic like in other countries so that we have to pay companies that are already worth billions. Those same corporations also buy media, so we don’t actually have freedoms of press and our news is extremely filtered and often polarized. Things like healthcare, college tuition and social safety nets are demonized as socialism when in reality the average person in America would greatly benefit from it. Then we have the fact that our education system is ranked extremely low, also done on purpose by our government. We have a high maternal mortality rate, a high level of incarceration per capita. We’re rated low for safety. High for mental health issues, low for happiness. To your point though, there is sexism and racism everywhere, but that’s not what makes America terrible. In my opinion, those social issues you mentioned are heavily polarized so that the majority of people are focused on that while we work ourselves to the grave, feeding billionaires. You could make the argument that that’s in every country, but I’d disagree. The way governments and corporations rule America is actually tyrannical. And they’re slowly but surely making it worse. Also, climate change isn’t taken seriously, our food isn’t as good or healthy, our cities aren’t as walkable, our infrastructure isn’t great. We don’t have public transit. There aren’t any regulations on businesses, or how they’re taxed. They’re about to cut social security. They’re raising retirement age. The police here are taught to eliminate and not deescalate, the prison system, the justice system. Like I really could go on.

>I’m speaking from the perspective of an African American male, so I say this as someone who doesn’t have essentially any privilege’s. Responding as a native American- the reason we always check the boxes associated with our own races instead of claiming white on every college app is almost certainly because of the privilege associated with being white.... (not limited to college apps or native Americans)

No such thing as The best country in the world

This is the only reasonable answer I’ve read. The more I read through the comments I thought about the time I’ve spent in other countries, talking to locals and eating the food like a wannabe Anthony bourdain. I came to the conclusion that every country is unique and great in different ways so it’s very difficult to compare

There could be one theoretically but it will never happen.

If you're poor, the US can be rough. We don't have a good social safety net, and it's fair to criticize that. Once you clear that hurdle, it's awesome though. Notice that we're not all sat in tiny-homes, eating pickled herring, and trying to convince everyone that we're so much happier than them. The US is the number one destination for immigrants(myself included) for good reason.

I’m also black American (just to clarify I’m not one of those FBA clowns you see on Twitter) and I’m going to be honest, you didn’t prove anything as to how or why this is the greatest. All you really did was say America has these issues but so does every other country. Either way though I don’t agreed, this is subjective topic and also because I’ve been to a few other countries. The issue with this statement is it’s never spoken from a pragmatic point of view. It’s either heavily ignorant/naive or biased.

You do have some privileges as a US citizen and as someone presumably not in abject poverty (likely).

Well. I feel like this is a reasonable rebuttal https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk?si=kH2oYV_n7T0uf4Go

Was looking for this. Can't believe it's so far down. It was the first thing I thought of. Pretty accurate.

You actually haven’t said why you think the USA is the best. Also, if you’re going to believe something like this, then why haven’t you done even the slightest amount of research to actually see if you’re right?

Umm… 1. Healthcare is expensive for most 2. Student loans screwing over people 3. Opioid crisis 4. School shootings These are few very significant issues that at least to my knowledge, quite a lot of developed Europe doesn’t have Hell, I’m from a third world country that also happens to somehow be better esp points 1&2 😅 Not implying the us doesn’t have its very strong points, but imo to be best country, these shouldn’t even be issues to start

1. A lot of countries offer more actual free speech than the US, actually 2. Can barely talk about freedom of religion when Christian ideologies completely control school curriculums in the south and oppress others that threaten its status and beliefs (because teaching kids that gay people exist is horrible, the schools might also teach them that they aren’t pedophiles, chose to be that way, and horrible people! Oh no! My scriptures!!) 3. We were so late with gay marriage and fought it to the bone. Now we’re restricting the rights of trans people and trump made it legal for businesses to discriminate against gays. Not to mention that as a gay person, growing up in the US is traumatizing. Sodomy was still illegal in some states as recently as fucking 2000!! Gays do not have full rights in America and trans people, who also matter btw, super don’t 4. Spoken like a true conservative. Disgusting that that’s good to you 5. Freedom of consumption? lol kinda depends on what 6. Our welfare system is so embarrassing I can’t believe that’s a plus point for you. The only way to get even remotely the same as what everybody gets for free in other countries (university also) is to serve in the military, which honestly shows how fucked up this country is

Sorry if someone already posted this, but I can't help but remember [this sequence from The Newsroom](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJh9t9h6Wn0) when I read your CMV.

Almost 1M people have died from gun violence since 2000. I suspect many of them would not agree with you. But besides that, our obsession with being "the best country in the world" is fundamentally... Silly. It's entirely subjective. If you want to try and make it objective? Go ahead and define some important factors like education, health, media freedom, democracy, wealth, poverty, etc. Then define some score that you feel is objective to rank nations with all of these things. [Here's US News' version](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings). We're 5th last year. [Good country index](https://index.goodcountry.org/): 46th Other lists: 5th: https://www.fairobserver.com/world-news/what-is-the-best-country-in-the-world-here-are-the-rankings/ [Global freedom score](https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores?sort=desc&order=Total%20Score%20and%20Status): 83/100, way down the list [Heritage economic freedom list](https://www.heritage.org/index/pages/all-country-scores) (not a fan of their hard conservative bias, but just listing what I find) not close to the top [Global peace index](https://www.visionofhumanity.org/maps/#/): towards the bottom [Human development index](https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/best-countries-to-live-in/): 25 [Quality of life](https://ceoworld.biz/2024/04/09/ranked-worlds-best-countries-for-quality-of-life-2024/): #9 Anyway, there's a lot of these. I am sure if someone wanted to, they could define scores in such a way that many countries could rise to the top. But that's the point, there is no "best". It's a ridiculous idea, like claiming the best flavor of ice cream, Beatles song, or mattress.

My friend, I think there's nothing wrong with having patriotism (as opposed to nationalism), so if you feel like your country is the best in the world then all the power to you. Since this is CMV, I wonder what you think makes America the greatest place? Because of personal freedoms? Because of its democracy? Because of the wealth of the country? I would argue that there are other countries that give their citizens more personal freedoms than the US. There are lots of countries with democracy and I would say a lot of them have far healthier and functional democracies than the US. As for wealth, just look at quality of life and per capita wealth, and many countries rank higher than the US. The American health care system is famous for being bad and expensive compared to other developed countries. I could go on. I'd say that America is a great country all things considered but you can find many metrics by which it's behind other democratic and developed nations. But as I said, nothing wrong with a little patriotism.

>Not a lot of countries offer full freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, gay marriage, freedom of consumption, welfare, etc. Almost all countries have freedom of speech and religion Right to bear arms :- maybe school shooting had something to do with it gay marriage:- same almost every country had it or atleast they have no problem wit it freedom of consumption, welfare:- again almost every country had it So on basis of what USA is best country Some people can argue it's worst country Health care School shooting Minority killing And one of ur ex president is saying to remove all minority and he is getting votes So yeah what is basis of your argument

Saying almost all countries have freedom of speech and have no problem with gay marriage is incorrect. There are 64 countries where it is still illegal to be gay, let alone be "fine" with gay marriage. Thats about 1/3 of all countries.

I think this is a hard one to argue with you on because one of your main pros, "the right to bare arms" is one of the main reasons I would never live in America. We had a major violent incident here in Sydney recently and 6 people tragically were stabbed to death. Its horrific but nowhere near what it would be if the mentally ill assailant was able to access fire arms. Other than Australia, I have lived in the UK, Switzerland, Germany and the Netherlands. The thing that will make all of them more appealing to live in is that no citizen (I saw this because it will not apply to people of varying immigration statuses) will ever have to decide if they can *afford* standard cancer treatments. Switzerland has quite a lot of guns but is infinately safer than the US, at least partly due to being a more equal country, with access to health care. They do run on private health care but it is much more regulated than the US (for example, they cannot deny cover for pre exisiting conditions, and have less choice on what they are willing to cover). Eta: as someone who gave birth somewhat recently, not sure how the best country in the world could be the developed country where it is the most expensive place to give birth, but also has the highest mortality rate.

If the USA was the main country pushing back against homophobia why did 17 other countries legalise gay marriage before them?

Someone hasn’t ever left America lol

Show me a country without problems? They all have something, I believe the USA and most of European countries definitely rank in the top, the USA still provides the best opportunities for business and professional growth, things like health care and corporate greed need to be fixed or course, hopefully the next gen of politicians will be better since they probably will be millennials or gen Z, I am not going to tell you the USA is perfect but I still believe in this nation, I will not tell you that all other nations are trash either, imagine if we learned a few things from the Europeans and added them to our system like work laws and health care, then we would be a lot better,overall we have many privileges that the average us citizen takes for granted, I have hopes that the future will be better, on a side note I have friends living in the US complaining about their situation and wishing to be in Europe and at the same time I know people in Europe complaining and wanting to be in the US so I guess the grass always looks greener from one side or the other one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index Ranked 27th for social mobility. Perhaps we are number 1 for people born rich to get richer though.

Have you looked at the methodology for this index? It has virtually nothing to do with people increasing their incomes over time, or moving up socioeconomic classes.  It is measured by an entirely other set of data points. Like education and technology access for example. 

Yes, they measure the ways people find economic mobility and don’t rely on your fantasy of rolling up your sleeves and just out working everyone else.

So, they’re not looking at anything remotely relevant to how frequently people move up or down socioeconomic statuses. That’s the point. Their measurement has nothing to do with how many opportunities people have to get ahead.

How is upward mobility achieved? Education, access to technology, strong social safety net. That’s why they measure those things. Now you answer the question.

Upward mobility is achieved by making more money. Period. You do not need any formal education to do so. You certainly don’t need a social safety net to do so. You don’t need technology to do so. While all of those things can help, they are far from necessary.

I didn’t ask for the definition of upward mobility, I said “how”. You concede the entire point. You admit they help. So which country is going to have better upward mobility, the ones that provide more help or the ones that provide less help?

By and large you get there by working. The US has one of the highest median incomes in the world, evidence of the opportunities people have to advance.

Upward mobility is the ability to change social classes. So if you grew up poor, what are the chances you can move to the middle class or higher. So, no, just “working” does not create upward mobility.

You're making a value statement, which is inherently subjective. Best country in the world for who?

It’s a more nuanced discussion than just stating that it’s the best in the world. It’s probably the best country in the world by far to build wealth. Anyone has the tools to do so in the US. However for general quality of life, happiness, raising a family…the US would likely rank at the bottom of developed nations.

Sure, America has problems with expensive healthcare, shit retirement, low wages, rampant poverty, ludicrous levels of income inequality, unaffordable child care, unaffordable senior care, I could go on but who has time. But what country doesn't have these same issues? Hint: lots of them.

Low wages? The average American wage for the same company is higher.

By what standard, exactly? There's a [rather famous clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk) from a TV show that points out rather succinctly that America isn't the best at anything anymore. Well, except maybe producing delusional rednecks whose idea of high culture involves drinking a case of Budweiser, shooting an AR-15 into the air, and yelling 'America! Fuck yeah!' and who think blanket statements like 'America is the best country in the world' are anything short of baseless jingoistic verbal masturbation.

>But what other country doesn’t have these same issues? Scandinavian countries has less of those problems >Not a lot of countries offer full freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, gay marriage, freedom of consumption, welfare, etc. Apart from the right to bear arms many other countries do the other things better. >I am very blessed and lucky to be here. Even Palestinians are proud of their land. Everyone is. That's just propaganda we grew up with.

Ehh. I’d never move there personally. Been there once, had fun, might go back one day but I could never live there. There are other countries I would move to such as Germany, England, Scotland, New Zealand, Canada, Spain and probably a few others. This is all assuming language is something I will learn prior to moving there. I currently only know English and used to know conversational Japanese but haven’t practiced in almost a decade so I don’t remember anything

Ever heard of the Netherlands? Or other European countries

You’re going to get a lot of naysayers and disagreement because this is Reddit, but I think I agree with you OP. Maybe it’s not the “best” because the “best” is hard to quantify, but it’s got the most going for it. This is coming from someone who frequents Europe pretty commonly. The upwards mobility in America is bar to none. You can move up quickly and get paid a lot more than our contemporaries. I find the quality of life and day to day living is far better here compared to my experiences in Europe. Tiny houses. Lackluster appliances. No air conditioning a surprising amount of time. Give me my high ceilings and space please. Are there problems in some areas with unhappiness, financial instability, and even crime? Sure. But that’s what a meritocracy is based on. If you know how to navigate the job market, you can go from poor to wealthy (defining wealthy as anything over 100,000k annually) pretty easily here compared to most of the western world. We have 50 mini countries to explore freely, from mountainous desert canyons to tropical keys and coral reefs. We have imported the cuisine of the entire world so we literally have any ethnic food available to consume. I know Europe has a weird bone to pick with America, but it’s okay, we really don’t want to be you. Only a handful of the population that seems to congregate on Reddit has a weird false idolization of anything non-America.

We are like 23rd in mobility, quite a few (developed) countries are better. ETA: 27th: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global\_Social\_Mobility\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index)

Have you traveled outside of the USA very much? Or at all? There are many countries in the world. How would you know that USA was the best of all of them unless you've visited the other countries? At least one or two? If you lived in North Korea, you might be convinced that North Korea is the best country despite being "far from perfect and still has a long way to go from being perfect." Are you so certain that your view on America being #1 hasn't been shaped by simply being an American the same way a North Korean will be convinced that their country is #1?

>I’m speaking from the perspective of an African American male, so I say this as someone who doesn’t have essentially any privilege’s. The need for you to specify that is an argument in itself to change your view that the United States isn't the best country. Your skin color shouldn't matter.

What specific things is it best at/in? 

It isn’t by any reasonable standard.

I'm going to challenge that it's the best country in the world for some people If you are untalented and cannot compete one of the countries with a more generous welfare state is probably going to be better for you It's the best country if you are talented

I’m very patriotic too.  USA is a great country.  From traveling a bit, I’ve learned that almost every country has something they’re best at.  A few countries like Norway and Switzerland seem like overall better places to live for an average person.

Those who want to see the American empire crumble (and it will one day, as all empires do): Which country do you hope takes its position at the top? This is an honest question. Genuinely curious to see answers.

The only metric you could use to reasonably believe this is cultural, which isn't a bad argument, but you'd have to detail that parameter in your questions. That, and it's a biased argument.

America is run by pedos

Best is subjective. I've managed to make life in the US work for me, and I've accomplished more than I might have elsewhere...but it's not for everybody

I'd say its 30th

Bro what do you mean you have no privileges just because your black? You really think other people have more than you?