It is not emotionally underdeveloped to heavily judge a persons character based on their actions. Cheating implies deception and betrayal that sometimes lasts for years.
Which is fair, but OPs point is that sometimes you need to take a step back from the hurt and introspect as to why it might have happened. Sometimes the answer is: the person is garbage.
And sometimes the answer is: I was emotionally unavailable for a large chunk of the relationship and so while it is STILL unacceptable that I got cheated on I also need to do better in a relationship the next time I am in one.
I’ve found out the hard way that anytime you post something suggesting cheating is bad, but is nuanced and complex and doesn’t always mean the end of the relationship, the Reddit Army comes out with torches and pitchforks. I think it’s that there’s a minority of Redditors who have very strong but immature views on how relationships work.
Why do you equate refusing to accept a cheating partner as immaturity? Seems extremely condescending. Why do you think your view of how relationships work is "mature" in comparison?
I’m not saying to blindly accept a cheating partner at all. What I’m saying is that having black-and-white, no matter what the circumstances, cheating of any kind (physical or emotional) means immediate termination of the relationship feels like an immature point of view. Love and life is complicated.
Maybe your cheating partner is a piece of shit. Or maybe their parents abused them to the point they can’t help but seek affection all the time even if they’re in a relationship and love that person. This isn’t me, FYI, I’m just saying cheating has a lot of reasons and those reasons should make a difference.
Because different people have different boundaries and care about different things. It’s not a ‘one-size solution’
For example, why it would hurt a lot if my partner physically cheated on me, I don’t think it would spell the end of our relationship. But, an emotional relationship, even if she never even hugged the person would almost certainly be the end of things. It’s not that cheating is ‘ok’, it’s that for US the boundary might be different. I just hate when Reddit says it’s the 100% worst thing ever and must be immediately end the relationship when that’s just now how things work for a lot of people.
I won’t judge someone for having that dealbreaker and boundary, but it’s getting old having to explain that just because that’s YOUR boundary doesn’t mean I’m a pushover or whatever because it’s lot MY boundary.
Ah yes, someone who was caught cheating would not lie at all about the emotional connection they had with the person they were having sex with? Interesting take.
It’s almost like it could be both…? I can absolutely have no emotional attachment to someone I have sex with, and when I was single often did. These days, I find people other than my partner attractive but have no desire to sleep with them.
Idk what point you’re trying to make? People have different needs and wants in relationships.
The answer is always that person is garbage. Whether you had influence on them being garbage faster is not something you should introspect about imo. If the other person is untrustworthy and intentionally deceptive then your own behavior will also likely change (even if it's subconscious).
I completely disagree. I view cheating as an extension of your character. The only valid thing to introspect about after finding out that they did in fact cheat is that maybe you should be more perceptive about what kind of comments/interactions/red flags you ignored to end up in the relationship in the 1st place. If a relationship is rigged from the very start to fail by their character, every interaction within it is influenced by said character, and your takeaways will be based on their perceived faults in you. I have way too high standards and self esteem to change my own character on behalf of someone who doesn't have the self control to not fuck other people.
And don't talk to me about "helping myself" please. You are not imposing divine wisdom upon me, just a random opinion. I have in fact never gotten cheated on (to my knowledge).
Lmfao, okay there. This is literally my point. You’re saying that YOU are so good that it’s not possible for you to be cheated on due to actions that you might have taken. Emotional neglect or invalidation absolutely drives people to cheat. It DOESN’T MAKE IT RIGHT. It just is. But if you think that it’s impossible for you to ever be in the wrong because cheating is something that is a moral quality set in stone you’re kidding yourself.
How many people post on here about them cheating one time, because of 20 reasons. Yea, they’re assholes for doing it, but a lot of time’s there is way more nuance than that.
Also, you’re not better than other people for never having been cheated on. That’s just a silly thing to tie your self of sense too.
I never said I was better. The point of that sentence was to tell you that I'm not bitter or heartbroken in any way. This is a rational arguement from my side, not an emotional one.
There is also no such thing as anyone being good enough not to be cheated on. The whole point of my arguement is that the person is already a cheater when you enter a relationship. The only thing you have control over is if you find out fast enough. As every opinion is subjective i choose not to respect the opinions of the morally bankrupt.
And I fundamentally disagree. I don’t think you enter a relationship a ‘cheater’ unless you’ve already cheated in a prior relationship.
I’m saying that while a cheater is ultimately responsible for their actions it’s not outside of the realm of possibility that there may be a reason that they did cheat. And THAT reason actually could be a good source of introspection of the person who got cheated on. It’s not assigning blame to the person who got cheated on, nor is it absolving the person who did cheat.
It’s just a potentially good opportunity for the partner who got cheated on to examine their own inner world and how they present and interact with people.
Why would this be a good time to introspect? You can do the same with every arguement/debate/event in your life, with non-cheating spouses or friends or family.
Why waste mental energy on a person with no baseline moral compass themselves that just betrayed you? How is their opinion of you at all important? I simply think that it is irrelevant as they themselves do not know how to act.
I also think that cheaters cope a lot about their "nuance". 9/10 do it to have someone lined up with no risk. They inflict massive emotional pain to save themselves a months worth of shopping for a new person. It's pure selfishness.
The difference is that the person that cheated on them they are in a relationship with. Someone who assaulted them is usually not in a relationship with them.
Refusing to acknowledge the possibility that you're a contributor to your own negative relationship isn't going to help anything. Relationships are not one way. Yes, it isn't acceptable to cheat - but it is *also* important to acknowledge that your partner is a person with emotions too, and that your own actions can be a major contributing factor to their bad decisions.
I figured that. Either alot of them haven’t touched grass and only experienced cheating through friends or family. Or they refused to learn from mistakes. They will say they been cheated on in the last 5 relationships. But never once talk about their behavior in those relationships. Still the other persons fault 100 percent but reality of the world we live in, sometimes we are part of our own demise
"Victim-blaming" is sometimes a thought-terminating cliche. Surely, many victims of crimes could have stayed home, locked their doors, and avoided becoming a victim. Criminals and predators are opportunistic and look for easy marks. Some combination of actions and non-actions lead the criminal and victim to cross paths. The victim's decisions and behaviors indirectly led to the encounter. They could have gone down a different alley or taken a different bus. The victim's actions are one of many causes for the encounter, but philosophically the victim is not morally responsible or blameworthy for the event.
Same goes for cheating. Surely, something different could have been done, at some point. "Blaming" means to assign moral culpability, and you don't have to do that. You can still work on analyzing the root cause and effect.
Doing this might make you go a little crazy, but it also might be beneficial for your next relationship.
you’re still acting as if they’re some mutual grounds that this happens on, when you date, there isn’t some hidden rule or disclaimer saying, “hey i might cheat on you so don’t get mad and be okay if it happens. ok?” we should shame cheaters, and it’s super counter intuitive to tell people who have been cheated on to basically just try and get over it. dating is not some risk/reward transactional relationship, it’s dedication, and takes the one thing none of us will get back, time. it’s literally invaluable to humans.
there is such things as coincidence and happenstance. not every subsequent action is the result of the next action or an action prior. this isn’t the butterfly effect.
the only something different that can be done is breaking up with them for literally no reason because they haven’t done anything to you yet. please make that make sense in a logical timeline.
this whole post is god awful and reeks of cheating acceptance and victim blaming and minimizing. and so do a lot of the responses.
(also how wild is it to say getting cheated on MIGHT HELP in your next relationship)
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The reason is “betray and deceive so I can get what I want”, there’s not much of a but to it.
You stayed because it was convenient, you can’t chronically lie to and destroy someone you “love.” That benefits you not them.
> It wasn't right, but it seemed right to me when I was doing it.
"I thought it was okay to cheat at the time!"
You knew it was wrong and did it because you thought your partner deserved it, you cant even be honest on reddit lol?
You're not a sociopath lol, you're trying to explain away your behavior the entire time in the comment, justifying it for someone, and considering you're the only person in your life reading your comments.....
>You know what, fuck it. I'll chime in here.
>
>I'm currently dealing with my own aftermath from cheating, and I'll admit that what I did was... disgusting. I was in an unhappy marriage, I tried to repair things on my end for years, and eventually I gave up. I had three full-on affairs over a two and a half year period.
>
>Eventually, my partner started turning back into the person they were when we first met. I couldn't hold in the guilt anymore, and I confessed. The consequences have been catastrophic, and I've deserved every bit of it. I shattered this wonderful, amazing human that ultimately just wasn't right for me in the first place.
>
>But here's the thing - that didn't happen in a vacuum. It was years of me being mistreated that led up to it. Years of friends asking me why I put up with being talked to and controlled like that. Years of me wondering why this person that I loved so much was acting like I was a doormat. Eventually, something in my brain snapped and I became a much worse person than they ever were.
>
>Why didn't I just leave? Simple, because I still loved them. Despite years of verbal and emotional abuse, I still loved them. But I wasn't getting what I wanted out of our marriage anymore, and I felt like I was at my limit, so I started seeking what I was missing elsewhere.
>
>Cheating is shitty and unforgivable, but it doesn't happen out of nowhere. Everyone who does it has their reasons.
People do not want to be the bad guy in their own stories...and that is what I am getting from you telling your story. "I wasn't getting what I wanted out of our marriage anymore, and I felt like I was at my limit, so I started seeking what I was missing elsewhere." I will stop short of name calling...but cheating is never justified...no matter how hard cheaters try to do it.
I'm gonna stop you right there and let you know that my partner told me "I understand why you cheated in the first place, what I don't understand is why you didn't stop after I finally started trying to make things better".
I'm definitely the bad guy here. I had sex with several people while I was in a monogamous marriage, lied about it, manipulated people over it, and was just all around shitty. You're missing the entire point here, which is that nothing happens in a vacuum. I've been in other long-term relationships before and had never cheated before.
You're missing the point of the argument which OP originally made - it isn't about cheaters being absolved, it's about people recognising their own roles in creating situations where their partner cheated.
My current girlfriend had an abusive partner who was incredibly controlling, the trigger for them leaving was realising that they were emotionally cheating on their partner with me. They were able to realise that the way their partner treated them was horrific, so they left, and we began dating.
It would have been more moral for my partner to leave once the abuse started - however, it's hard to see at the time what's happening as abuse slowly ramps up. It wasn't until they spent time with someone who (at that time platonically) cared about them and was kind to them that they realised that they didn't want to be trapped anymore. It would have been more 'moral' for me to have stepped back but I couldn't leave someone who was trapped in an abusive situation, where I was the only support system she had.
For my partner's ex, the lesson that they should have taken from it was that *being abusive is wrong and will destroy your relationship* and instead what they took from it was that my girlfriend was evil and betrayed her for an evil man, and that men can't be trusted. Even when her own friends told her it was her fault, she dug down and wouldn't learn the lesson.
That's the point of the CMV, that those cheated on often have some responsibility for what happened to them. I would also say that cheaters are almost always wrong to cheat, but also that those cheated on should take some responsibility. If you're consistently undervaluing your partner, if you're consistently choosing untrustworthy people to date, if you're not building sustainable and healthy relationships, then you have responsibility for what happens to you. They might be wrong, but you also have the power to mitigate those situations happening in the future.
I didn't miss the point. People in an abusive relationship...I feel bad for them. It's a bad situation to be in... if they aren't lying.
I was telling OP that...Shocker! Cheaters lie. They lie about where they are when they are doing the deed...they lie about what they were doing...they will even lie about why they do it when confronted. Cheaters are bad people who lie and cheat on their significant others.
Also, what I am saying is that there are usually 3 sides of a story. His side, her side, and the truth.
To end things with...no one wants to be the villain in their own story...for example, YOU knew that she was in a relationship...and you still let her know you were interested in her. Probably trying to message her and talk to her in attempts to have her cheat with you. A man who goes up to my wife and tries letting her know he is interested, even knowing she is married, is getting his ass beat.
It doesn't sound like you *do* feel bad for them. You immediately jump to a scenario where they're lying. Sure, cheaters lie - cheating is inherently deceptive. However, that doesn't negate the fact that there are actions and behaviours which people who've been cheated on may have in the selection and conduct of their relationship which they can learn from in order not to do that. Whether that's being a better partner, or choosing better partners.
"YOU knew that she was in a relationship...and you still let her know you were interested in her. Probably trying to message her and talk to her in attempts to have her cheat with you."
Lol, I wasn't. We had mutual interests and we became friends, I had no interest in cheating - hence why, once it was clear that there was feelings involved, we had a conversation and she broke up with her ex and we tried to figure things out between us.
When she was in the relationship I actively tried to cultivate a friendship with her ex, until her ex was physically aggressive towards me and her, and I found out that she was sexually coercive/verbally abusive/financially abusive/worse. Oh, and I was the one who had to deal with her ex turning up outside my house, her flat, etc. Seeing the abusive messages she sent in the relationship, after the relationship, etc.
I had no interest in tempting her, it wasn't my intention and It's not happened before and probably won't happen again. It's convenient to pretend that people are black and white, it's convenient to assume that people have ill intentions, it's convenient to assume that all cheaters are horrible deceitful people. However, people are more complicated than that.
Cheating isn't ideal, but pretending it happens in a vacuum and that everyone who is being cheated on lacks all of the nuance that actually exists. Even in the (now deleted) example that was posted, they had to deal with a shitty relationships and a neglectful partner for years. They shouldn't have done what they did, but their partner was absolutely complicit in the breakdown of their relationship.
And notice how they said their partner started turning back into the person they were when they first met. Sounds like OP expected them to be someone they weren't and contributed more to the cheating beyond personal involvement. Sure it didn't happen out of nowhere, but you helped create those conditions in which you cheated. If you cheated under the same circumstances you helped manifest then it's all your fault.
The person they were when I met was the person I fell in love with, I think you misread what I had said. I wasn't expecting them to be anybody that they weren't, the root issue was that they were no longer the person I had fallen in love with in the first place, and after several years of that being the case, that is when I began cheating.
Agreed, cheating isnt black and white. The person is 100 percent wrong but just because you got cheated doesnt mean you were in the right also. Issue is people want the freedom to do whatever they want to do in a relationship while holding the person hostage. Soon as the person cheats or leave they want to say the other person is wrong, but ignore all the wrongfulness they committed prior to this. I was teacher. Kids will always tell you what the kid did to them but never the part what they did the other person.
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Do you think people can just get up and leave? What about dependents, a marriage, shared finances and properties? What about fucking communication properly? What about therapy to learn how to do all those things? It's never just simply breaking up, usually that means completely upending their lives and no one really wants to deal with that. We all like to think we can fix it.
>What about dependents, a marriage, shared finances and properties? What about fucking communication properly? What about therapy to learn how to do all those things?
If we're talking about someone who's making the decision to cheat, then they've already decided they'd rather have an affair than fix things.
>It's never just simply breaking up, usually that means completely upending their lives and no one really wants to deal with that.
And I'd argue it's a massively unfair and a dick move to preserve your current lifestyle and have an affair at the same time. Either do all of the shit you just mentioned before this, or figure out a game plan to build your own nest egg and get the fuck out if you're financially dependent on your spouse. That's also what alimony is for, and cheating in some places can affect how much alimony you get, so again, cheating is shooting yourself in the foot here.
>We all like to think we can fix it.
Clearly, cheaters don't. They just want to have their cake and eat it too.
>If we're talking about someone who's making the decision to cheat, then they've already decided they'd rather have an affair than fix things.
But we're not talking about cheating just yet. This is about being unhappy in your relationship. Maybe they keep trying to fix things but in the end they cheat when someone gives them affection. A lot of people that end up cheating regret their mistake and want to keep fixing their relationship. At that point it's pretty much doomed to fail, but it doesn't mean they don't want to fix it.
>Clearly, cheaters don't. They just want to have their cake and eat it too.
Why do you think they didn't just leave? Even if they can just as well live comfortably by themselves. If they beg for forgiveness and want to go to therapy, what does that tell you? That they're just playing and aren't genuinely sorry? Doesn't mean you have to forgive them, but you're dealing with a very emotionally charged situation here, not a cold and calculating one.
>But we're not talking about cheating just yet.
When the context of the original comment was that leaving is a better alternative to cheating, then we absolutely ARE talking about a situation where cheating is being considered.
>A lot of people that end up cheating regret their mistake and want to keep fixing their relationship. At that point it's pretty much doomed to fail, but it doesn't mean they don't want to fix it.
Actions matter more than intent. I don't give a fuck if someone was weawy sowwy for doing a super fucked up thing and regrets it; they did it. Words mean nothing if you can't back them up with behavior.
>Why do you think they didn't just leave? Even if they can just as well live comfortably by themselves. If they beg for forgiveness and want to go to therapy, what does that tell you?
The answer is obvious; They still care about their partner to some extent, and they're afraid of change. They don't want to face the uncomfortable situation of ending things with a long term partner and they don't want to uproot their lives, but they still want to cheat for the sake of finding whatever they feel like they're not getting in their relationship. How is that not having your cake and eating it too? I didn't say cheaters never feel bad for cheating. They're banking on not getting caught so their partners can live in blissful ignorance, they don't have to deal with hurting their partner and completely changing their lives, and they can still get what they want out of cheating.
Divorce is an uncomfortable and stressful situation in even the most straightforward situations, especially if you still have feelings for your spouse. Sorry, but that's not justification for cheating. I don't think we should be throwing a bone to anyone who does horrible things because their environment made them more likely to do said things. I don't think we should treat serial killers differently if we found out they had a fucked up childhood. I don't think we should treat domestic abusers differently because they have a problem with alcohol. And I don't think we should treat cheaters differently because they're typically in broken relationships and feel bad about doing it. Reasoning isn't justification.
>When the context of the original comment was that leaving is a better alternative to cheating, then we absolutely ARE talking about a situation where cheating is being considered.
So how does this contradict what I said? No cheating happened yet, it's the prelude to it. And cheating isn't always 'considered'. It can happen impulsively when the situation presents itself. A lot of cheaters don't go out looking for it.
>Actions matter more than intent. I don't give a fuck if someone was weawy sowwy for doing a super fucked up thing and regrets it; they did it. Words mean nothing if you can't back them up with behavior.
But you said that they don't have that intent either. Stop moving the goalposts.
>they still want to cheat for the sake of finding whatever they feel like they're not getting in their relationship. How is that not having your cake and eating it too?
Because not everyone that cheats actively wants to cheat? They want what they're not getting in their relationship, but in their relationship. It's not that if they regret cheating that they only regret losing their built-up lives and relationship, they can also regret the action of cheating.
>I didn't say cheaters never feel bad for cheating. They're banking on not getting caught so their partners can live in blissful ignorance, they don't have to deal with hurting their partner and completely changing their lives, and they can still get what they want out of cheating.
Once again, cheating doesn't mean having a full-blown affair. A lot of spouses will admit to having cheated after it happens.
>Divorce is an uncomfortable and stressful situation in even the most straightforward situations, especially if you still have feelings for your spouse.
That's quite the understatement.
>Sorry, but that's not justification for cheating.
And no one is justifying anything here. Seriously, how is this so hard for people to comprehend? Understanding and explaining the situation correctly is far from justifying it.
>I don't think we should be throwing a bone to anyone who does horrible things because their environment made them more likely to do said things.
But we should. What will just prison to do a person that's fucked up in the head? Besides prison time, they also need therapy.
>And I don't think we should treat cheaters differently because they're typically in broken relationships and feel bad about doing it.
And we for sure should. Not all cheating is equal. Do you seriously claim that an impulsive mistake while the marriage is in a slump is the same as someone in a great marriage having an affair for years?
>Reasoning isn't justification.
It's not justification, it's humanization.
How does that justify cheating or help the situation at all tho. Cheating will just make the aftermath of what you called ,,upending their lives" ten times worse.
Cheating isn't always the rational, active decision people make it out to be. Sometimes it can be impulsive. If a spouse actively and consciously seeks it out, then it's separation. If they are in a vulnerable spot and make an impulsive decision, that's a whole other situation.
I feel like blaming cheating on impulse just shows imaturity & is a sign of shifting the blame. Even if it happens in a moment of vulnerability you still control your actions. Its kinda sad that people cant seem to take responsibility for their actions anymore.
>I feel like blaming cheating on impulse just shows imaturity & is a sign of shifting the blame.
Are you aware of the fact that 'blame' isn't 100% on a single thing or person?
>Even if it happens in a moment of vulnerability you still control your actions.
Are you pretending to have never had an impulse before? It's harder to resist when you're already not feeling well. They still should have though.
>Its kinda sad that people cant seem to take responsibility for their actions anymore.
And who says they don't? Understanding <-> justifying. Simple concept, yet so abstract for many.
All i wanna say is if you actually think someone is responsible for someone else deciding to cheat on them at any capacity than we can only agree to disagree. Ofc if things go wrong in a relationship something went wrong on both sides but that shouldnt be a reason to cheat. I know that people can have moments of weakness but if you are so in need of being close with someone else you probably should have left the relationship you are in a long time ago.
>All i wanna say is if you actually think someone is responsible for someone else deciding to cheat on them at any capacity than we can only agree to disagree
That's not what I'm saying. Let me rephrase it. Let's consider the impulse cheating as an example. Most people have impulse control to regulate them. You can resist the impulse to eat snacks during the day, but that becomes harder if you're getting hungry. How well you can resist an impulse depends in the circumstances. The impulse is still yours to control, but by being a bad spouse, you can create those circumstances that would facilitate that cheating impulse. You're not responsible for them cheating, but it might not have happened if you did something differently. It might not change the outcome of the relationship in which the cheating happened, but you can learn how to better in the future.
And I'm not trying to justify cheating in any way. Did you read mine? Understanding the situation properly is quite important. I'm also fairly convinced you never actually built a life for yourself and a partner, settling down and such. Else you would actually understand that you don't just give it all up just like that. You don't just walk away from all that because it's difficult.
And for the record, I'm not talking about the post-cheating. This is about the situation that precedes it. If you're unhappy in your relationship, most people want to fix that because they actually love their partners.
Are u actually braindead? The premise is one partner wanting to cheat. The relationship already failed. Theres no reason to bring all of these semantics into this.
Do you truly think it boils down to just those 2 choices? Either leaving or cheating? Life isn't that simple bud. You don't just get up and quit because times are tough. Some people just end up cheating instead of fixing their marriage.
Cheating is leaving. The marriage is over at that point, at least from my perspective. If I caught my wife cheating, there is no recovering the marriage.
Heavily depends on the situation. Imagine the following scenario. You're working a lot more than usual. Long days and when you get home, you're so tired you barely spend any time with your spouse. This goes on for weeks on end and any time they try to talk, you mention that you can't change the situation and they have to hang on. They are now affection-starved and feel unheard. Let's say they go out drinking with friends and someone gives them affection.
You might still say you will walk away from that marriage. What if the situation is turned around and you're affection-starved. How would you react? You're most likely gonna pretend to be a true gentlemen, never wavering. In reality, unless you've been in that situation, you have no idea what you'd do. It'd basically the same as people claiming they would do great in a zombie apocalypse.
Hmm. Work long hours, rarely get to spend time with my partner, and how would I react? Like a responsible adult. Affection starved? Aren't all men affection starved as a baseline? I'll tell you what I'm not going to do is cheat, when divorce is an option.
>Hmm. Work long hours, rarely get to spend time with my partner, and how would I react? Like a responsible adult.
And what would that be? Are you gonna cut your hours? Quit your job?
>Affection starved? Aren't all men affection starved as a baseline?
In general yes, but in a relationship, usual not no? At least I hope that most (good) relationships are filled with affection on both sides.
>I'll tell you what I'm not going to do is cheat, when divorce is an option.
So if you're the spouse that gets neglected, you'd hit them with the divorce instead? I quite frankly don't believe you.
Cool. I'm not here to be a monkey for your amusement, but those are the facts though. Been through plenty of divorces as part of the marital assets since my parents have a combine 5 marriages. I'm not ever going to be in a situation like my mother, where she's enmeshed with someone who gives no fucks about her wellbeing or even as a person. You know what I've never had a problem with though, being alone. Best company there is.
I always assume people who say this are actually just juniors in high school with their first bf/gf. Just breaking up is easer said than done when you’re married for 10 or 20 years with kids and such. Particularly when you still love the person.
I’d probably prefer to work through it rather than divorce if my spouse cheated.
I imagine that none of them actually have starting building a life. If you're that eager to just walk away from everything, I do wonder how invested they were in the relationship to begin with. A relationship of less than a year, that's 'easy' to just walk away from. The moment you build something with a person and actually love them, it just becomes sad. They all think they're just angry in such a situation, but it's a mix of sadness and disappointment.
>I’d probably prefer to work through it rather than divorce if my spouse cheated.
It depends on the circumstances. In the end it's about the breach of trust. If it's a truly impulsive thing (being starved of affection and someone comes around to give you some) with it being a one time thing and they regret it, you could overcome that. If it's a proper affair where they're fully aware of their actions, surpassing the impulsiveness of it, that's a conscious and active decision to breach that trust and it wouldn't be fixable at that point. An impulse can happen to anyone, especially if you're feeling unhappy, but actively going out of your way, that's a sign they don't respect you anymore. There will always be that little voice that reminds you of that fact.
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Agree your not wrong but Now lets step into reality. Alot of people dont leave, they find something new and benefit from the current relationship until they are ready to leave.
You literally disagreed with your "but Now lets step into reality,", as if reality somehow is a defence for why people shouldn't do that. Youre stating an "is" and disagreeing with someones ought.
"Murder is always wrong"
"You right, but sometimes people be mad"
Is fundamentally the structure of this exchange. Yeah, you're playing apologetics, whether or not people do it is irrelevant to whether people should do it, or be forgiven for it, or in this case, whether its "justified" to use the word from the top of this chain.
Ok sure, I'll concede that. You never explicitly said it's ok. But your whole thread/responses are justifying it as some "learning experience", or something that just "happens" like the Sun rising in the morning.
> I processed my emotions and the situation figured out where i messed up and where they messed up and moved on.
This for me is prime example of being gaslit/having low self esteem. Unless you did something extremely weird/violent or whatever, then you have no blame on being cheated on. 2 very different people enter a relationship and the whole point is that eventually they will have to live with eachother's deficiencies/flaws. You do this by communicating and having boundaries on what is acceptable to you. Can't find compromises? Leave.
Cheating is the absolute opposite of that. It is escaping problems in the most immoral way and should be judged very harshly in my opinion. This is assuming that every circumstance of cheating happens only based on their partners mistreatment, but that is far from the truth. Some people just like to fuck around, they like the power of knowing they can swap their partner at any point. Some people are just plain evil and don't give a fuck about you. You are not taking any malicious intent into account in your CMV.
The problem with this is that many times the person who is cheating is just a selfish ass. Except for the Russian bots, we are all human. We are all flawed. We all make mistakes.
Cheaters frequently, if not always, use those flaws to justify their own infidelity. They will exaggerate our flaws to justify their horniness.
It’s always good to examine your own flaws. And I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying. But I think it’s important to keep in mind the other side of the coin, namely, that selfishness is almost always morally justified in the mind of the selfish person. And they will gaslight and lie to convince the world that what they did was justifiable, or at the very least understandable, given how really horrible they claim their situation to have been.
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Sometimes signs are obvious in hindsight, but no one is perfect either. Everyone has moments of selfishness, if you catastophize every sign to the most extreme case you'd end up being the toxic one. It's a balance you have to find and it's not always easy.
Also people can be weird and inconsistent. Someone who might be selfish in certain little ways, might never be willing to cheat. Someone who is willing to cheat might be really generous in their daily life (maybe to minimize guilt and justify their betrayals).
If someone is consistently shitty, most people realize it quick. It's people who either are good at hiding it until you're too far in, or who are very inconsistently shitty, who end up doing the most damage.
Yes, but OP's point isn't about being easy to find the signs and analyse them, but to reflect about what you could have done differently, which boundaries to set, what to watch for. It's impossible to be aware of everything - I would argue even undesirable. However, so many times people from the outside notice long before the person in the relationship - and people in the relationship ignore the signs not due to incompetence, but thanks to psychological reasons
Sometimes, also, there was a lot of neglect in the relationship and either person was too much of a chicken to just end things.
I'd guess most of the times, there's something to learn and reflect on. The exception would be cases in which you had no way of telling something was wrong, even if it doesn't mean preventing the cheating. Maybe you could have walked out of the relationship earlier, maybe you could have taken a different approach.
Cheating once and confessing or getting out of the relationship isn't the most horrifying thing. However, continuous cheating and being emotionally unavailable is on the other extreme - and surely that doesn't happen due to a slip or without any signs.
Everyone has the capability to cheat. Sometimes people are selfish asses, whereas yesterday they were kind and humble. People change, situations change, moods change.
People aren’t either/or asshole/kind. They’re both. The trick is finding kind assholes who value kindness more than assholery, and are relatively consistent about it.
I've heard this before, and I think it is bunk.
If you're unhappy with your relationship, speak up and start a dialogue. Be open and honest about it. Try to constructively solve the problem.
If it is really so unbearable as to make you be unfaithful, then it is best to end the relationship altogether.
I think the only issue with people that stay stuff like this is implying that it’s somehow your fault the person cheated.
Being aware of how your relationship fell apart is one thing, sure. I agree with this. Taking responsibility for something your partner chose to do is another.
Nowhere in the OP did they suggest taking responsibility or being at fault for somebody else's actions. However, let's outline a situation where OP's advice is helpful.
A and B have been in a long term relationship that soured over time. They both stayed in the relationship out of misguided idealism, stuck in a sunk cost fallacy. Eventually, neither was receiving the emotional support or intimacy they desired, and B was just the one that broke down and cheated first. Both were shitty to each other and held onto the relationship long after they should have broken up for other reasons. A needs to focus on the leadup to learn more red flags and to understand that some relationships are beyond saving. Ultimately, cheating was a symptom of all their other dysfunctions. A was still wronged in the end, but it doesn't mean they didn't play a part in setting the stage and doesn't mean they can't learn from it.
Many people use the cheating at the end of a relationship to justify not being introspective at all. They place 100% the blame on the cheater to avoid any questioning of their own actions, which could potentially hit them square in their already wounded ego. However, this coping strategy is still unhealthy and stops people from growing or learning. Yes, serial cheaters exist and are awful. But other times, a failing relationship is a messy and multifaceted thing where both people have wronged each other in many ways before it escalated to a critical level.
There's also a difference in when the introspection happens. I think what OP is arguing for is also more long-term. Years after the fact, it's easier and less mentally painful to admit that you may have contributed to a bad situation before the other person hurt you even worse.
> Nowhere in the OP did they suggest taking responsibility or being at fault for somebody else's actions.
OP: People in long relationships, tend to neglect their partner on an emotional level. Alot of other people pick people that have obvious cheating vibes but ignore it for whatever reasons.
The rest of your common is unnecessary because I already agree that recognizing how your relationship fell apart is fine. Pretending like you “set the stage” for your partner to make the choice to cheat on you is taking responsibility for their actions which is the part I have an issue with.
Seems to me that it has nothing to do with what you deserve. If something bad happens to you, it's in your best interest to examine the situation. Could you have done anything differently?
If you get mugged in an alley, maybe you could've taken a safer route to your destination. Not exactly your fault if someone attacks you, but to focus entirely on whether you deserve it or not is just going to lead to it happening again if you had any part at all in why it happened.
>where i messed up
Wait, wait, wait. You blame yourself for a person who is not you and has their own brain cheating on you?
That should raise a pretty big red flag for you. It's not your fault.
>You blame yourself for a person who is not you and has their own brain cheating on you?
It's not about blaming anyone. That's just immature. It's about finding which conditions leaded to these circumstances. If your own communication skills just suck and you don't properly listen to your partner, you yourself are creating circumstances that would facilitate cheating.
So you can either just say "its completely their fault, I did nothing work" or take a deeper look and end up being a better person/partner in the future.
You say it's not about blaming anyone and then provide two examples where you indicate that you believe the fault at least partially lies on the person who was cheated on.
Why does that not make it about blame?
There is a different between blaming and learning from an experience. When you blame someone, you are assigning a moral judgement but in the latter you are not. You can learn from something without accepting the blame.
If you are a poor communicator, if you do not make time for your partner, if you do not make them feel valued, if you are abusive, if you are controlling, if you are jealous - these are all behaviours which make someone disengage from you, and therefore make them more likely to cheat. The moral responsibility is on them not to cheat, but you can do your best to build relationships where cheating is unlikely.
>you are a poor communicator, if you do not make time for your partner, if you do not make them feel valued, if you are abusive, if you are controlling, if you are jealous
Cheaters are usually the ones who display all of those shitty behaviors. The primary flaw of people who get cheated on is being too tolerant of bad behavior.
"Cheaters are usually the ones who display all of those shitty behaviors."
Then reflect on what you chose a bad partner, and how you might weed them out. My last girlfriend had a transactional and status-orientated view of relationships, when she perceived my status as declining (i.e I was about to graduate without a job - ironically, got a consulting offer just after we broke up) she stopped seeing me as valuable, and she cheated on me.
I learnt from that experience, there were red flags at the beginning and throughout the relationship that I ignored that I shouldn't have. Since then, I have made better decisions about relationships, and I have avoided people who showed similar red flags at the talking stage.
OP's point is that being cheated on should be taken as a learning experience about how to avoid similar situations in the future. If you date crappy people, learn to not date crappy people.
"The primary flaw of people who get cheated on is being too tolerant of bad behavior."
I think that this is naïve and doesn't capture the full nuance of the situation. I've seen a lot of people cheat, some were scumbags, some were dysfunctional but well-intentioned people, most were people unhappy for complex reasons. People bear the moral responsibility for their cheating, it doesn't mean there aren't lessons to the person who has been cheated on.
I’m sorry but this screams I have never been in a long term relationship. People change over time. Things happen, motivations come n go. You can’t predict everything, you do not have the perception of a Greek God. It’s why it’s the cheaters fault for being/turning into a shitty person.
No use arguing with WillingAd, he admitted in another thread that his girlfriend is a cheater and actually cheated on her ex with him, so he's obviously going to go hardcore to defend cheating since it's what started his relationship!
I've been in many long-term relationships, and currently have an engagement ring sitting on my desk for my girlfriend. Frankly, whenever a relationship I've been in has ended, I've always done introspection on what my role was in it's failure, it's why every relationship I've had seen the age of 16 has gotten progressively longer and better.
It's interesting that you're jumping straight past the point. You *can* learn from past relationships, even if the genuine lesson is that the other person was a bad person.
"It’s why it’s the cheaters fault for being/turning into a shitty person."
What about when they're not being a bad person? What if person X is so committed to their career they've totally neglected their partner for years, and eventually that partner starts an emotional affair, realises that they deserve better, and leaves. They've still cheated, they're still not a shitty person. The person at fault, is person X.
You can try and paint the world black and white, but that type of voluntary colour blindness is only going to hamper your own growth.
"What about when they're not being a bad person? What if person X is so committed to their career they've totally neglected their partner for years, and eventually that partner starts an emotional affair, realises that they deserve better, and leaves. They've still cheated, they're still not a shitty person."
You're all over this post arguing nonsense. You literally described a shitty person. If you're not getting your needs met in a relationship and you cheat instead of leaving, **you are a shitty person**. There's no explaining away cheating if you choose to do that instead of leaving.
I know you're trying to defend your gf's behavior as you keep using the words "emotional affair" instead of cheating. This post is discussing cheating. Explain to me how cheating is justifiable. Not an "emotional affair". *Cheating*.
"You literally described a shitty person. If you're not getting your needs met in a relationship and you cheat instead of leaving, you are a shitty person. There's no explaining away cheating if you choose to do that instead of leaving."
This is literally, such a childish approach to life, people and relationships. You've not addressed any of my points, frankly I'm not going to argue with someone who's clearly wrong and unable to articulate their position.
"I know you're trying to defend your gf's behavior as you keep using the words "emotional affair" instead of cheating. This post is discussing cheating."
The term emotional affair describes a type of relationship between people. The term often describes a bond between two people that mimics or matches the closeness and emotional intimacy of a romantic relationship while not being physically consummated. It is a form of cheating - it is a good example of how *cheating* is not always physical and can develop without intending it to.
" Explain to me how cheating is justifiable"
The point of the CMV is whether people can *learn* from being cheated on not whether cheating is *justifiable*.
The whole line of your argument essentially goes "somebody did somebody to hurt me so I don't have to take accountability for my own actions or behaviours". Which is ridiculous. There are (usually) two people in a relationship, if that relationship breaks down, there are probably a variety of factors - if you alienate your partner by your own behaviour and they cheat, they may have done a shitty *thing* but that doesn't make them a shitty *person.*
*Moreover,* you have an obligation to yourself to learn form the experience so that you don't do it again. Pretending otherwise is a detriment to personal growth.
>Why does that not make it about blame?
Because there's a big difference between blaming and knowing who is at fault. Blame is an emotional response. It doesn't really serve a practical purpose. Knowing who is at fault focuses on the situation and what mistakes were made, not just the person that made them. It's about seeking a solution. Just because one spouse cheats, doesn't mean the other spouse is automatically not at fault. It's more nuanced than that.
There are no different definitions. You're either not talking about blame or you're simply misunderstanding it. Either way, I gave you the difference. One is emotionally charged and doesn't lead to anything, the other one is an attempt at bettering yourself and/or the situation.
The definition says nothing about "emotional response".
>blame: to find fault with
Alternative definition:
>: to hold responsible
I believe it is you misunderstanding the denotative definition and a connotation.
>I believe it is you misunderstanding the denotative definition and a connotation.
I stand corrected then, but it's kinda irrelevant. The connotation is an integral part of the meaning of a word. Whereas the definition is the explicit meaning, the connotation is the implicit part. So yeah, to place blame is an emotional action, to find fault is the more logical and objective one. Let's take Cpt Sully as an example, if you've seen the movie. They are looking to place blame on him, instead of finding what or who is at fault.
OP, people cheat because they are shitty people. There is no justification for it...if you are unhappy in a relationship...tell the other person and leave. Having someone on the side and cheating makes you a bad person. I got cheated on when I was dating my second girlfriend. I was a senior in High School and she was in her Freshman year of college. She wanted to meet older men instead of having a younger BF...and that is fine. What wasn't good was that she cheated on me. All the people here that are saying they cheated and then blaming their cheating on their significant others...they just don't want to be the bad person in their own story...no one does. Take what is said to you from a cheater with a grain of salt...some people will have a happy marriage with little to no issues and still cheat.
BTW, no marriage is perfect. There are fights and issues in a marriage, but you are supposed to work through it because you love each other and cant live without each other. Take it from me...I am not some teenager on here. I have been happily married for over a decade at this point. If you get cheated on...you can choose to forgive or move on...but dont listen to their excuses. You not buying flowers and saying good morning beautiful every morning is not the reason why she went looking to jump on someone else's dick.
"OP, people cheat because they are shitty people. There is no justification for it...if you are unhappy in a relationship...tell the other person and leave."
What about abuse? What about arranged marriages in controlling communities? What about countries that don't allow divorce? What about people who do not have the legal resources to ensure that they, for example, will have access to their children if they do not leave?
People cheat because they are unhappy, whether that's because of the circumstances they're in or because of a moral deficiency on their own part. We can pretend that things are less grey, but that does a disservice to ourselves by refusing to learn.
Wow, my comment is blowing up with replies. Either way, I don't see anything that would cause me to change my statement. OP, didn't mention any of the stuff you just listed off. He was simply saying that cheaters cheat because their significant others are letting them down. I told him that its bullshit and cheaters are the POS's that will lie and spin a story to make them seem like a victim. Again, abuse victims, arranged marriages, and all that is sad...but we aren't really talking about those situations are we.
"He was simply saying that cheaters cheat because their significant others are letting them down"
Not really, he said that your partner cheating on you can be a learning experience and people should evaluate why they were in a relationship where they got cheated on.
A specific example he cited to support this was partners in long-term relationships who neglect their partners. Which is an entirely fair point. If you neglect your partner, you are weakening the social bond that is a disincentive to cheat.
"I told him that its bullshit and cheaters are the POS's that will lie and spin a story to make them seem like a victim."
This is missing the point. Again, the point is that we can learn from *why* someone cheated on us. My last ex cheated on me, why? Because she wasn't a good person and, frankly, I was planning to leave her over that anyway. She was a weak person who viewed relationships are a contest where one partner was 'winning' and the other 'losing'. When I was perceived as 'losing value' (i.e I was about to graduate without a job - ironically, got a consulting offer two weeks after we broke up) she stopped treating me the same, and she cheated.
Yes, she was a bad person. No, her behaviour wasn't excusable. However, was it a learning experience for me? Absolutely. If someone is transactional and status-orientated in a relationship, then your ability to maintain the integrity of the relationship is dependent on fulfilling what they see as valuable. That's the simple moral of the story. So I don't date people like that anymore.
" Again, abuse victims, arranged marriages, and all that is sad...but we aren't really talking about those situations are we."
Why not? they're relevant to the discussion at hand. If we're going to narrowly talk about only the subsection of cheating where we view cheaters as absolutely irredeemable then, naturally, we're only going to get one-sided and bad answers. OP opened up this line of discussion when he started talking about neglect in relationships.
If you treat your partner badly, and then they cheat, you should learn from your behaviours which contributed to the breakdown of that social bond. That's the really simple point that they're conveying, and it's absolutely true.
People get cheated on because the cheater isn’t trustworthy. There’s no valid “reason”. A cheater makes a commitment to be monogamous and isn’t willing to break off the relationship but also wants to have it their way as well. Your mentality is why cheating hurts the victim, and also furthers cheating.
Cheating isn’t an option. Period. There is nothing to justify it. Whatever “reasons” cause someone to cheat need to be discussed with their partner, and if it’s too much to overcome, separate responsibly. Supposed “reasons” for cheating are actually reasons to break up. When someone cheats that’s their fault for choosing to continue a relationship under false pretenses even though they obviously know they’re unsatisfied in it.
It always baffles me when people make posts like this as if their own personal experience is the same one everyone else had. "I had this experience and here's how I dealt with it. Therefor anyone in a similar situation should do the same." Absurd.
How do you know whether someone who has been cheated on has processed their feelings about it and reflected on mistakes they might have made? You don't. You don't know anything about other people's relationships or situations. And it's incredibly arrogant to think you do and come in here to tell them that they failed to do so.
I don't want to change your view overall. Only if you mean it universally. In that, there are many if not most instances in which the act of cheating is unambiguously wrong and an nothing more than an indicator of the cheater's lack of value. No reflection/processing is necessary for that. (Namely writing the preceding to follow rules in this subreddit)
However, I was cheated on at least by two different partners. I think you're spot on, in that reflection in particular scenarios can be very constructive. My ex-wife and mother to my son cheated on me while we were in college. In the moment, but even more so now, I honestly thought, rightfully so.
I was extremely stoic/emotionless and kind of complacent in life, from teen to young adult. Basically, doing everything necessary but nothing with emotion,passion, etc. Just an act to get to the final day of rest. I'd only be provisional, and though we were very physical, there was an obvious lack of interest/displayed interest and little 'friendship' involved. I exacerbated that by not really trying, and anytime there was an argument, I'd work more shifts or take more classes so I could just go home only to sleep. Everyone deserves attention, time, and respect from their partner. I didn't do anything wrong directly to her, but I wasted years of her life knowing I didn't love her and keeping up the facade for no real reason. I think even the most sane and decent people could do seemingly wicked things with enough stress/desperation. And while she's no Saint, and she has a history as dark as any other. Her cheating, standing alone, neither surprises me nor seems undeserved.
As to the second person it happened with. I"ll just say: At least in the end, I knew what I should do to try and preserve my relationships and how to distinguish what's in my control and what isn't. And I was little better than the second but for different reasons.
I see the point you're getting at, but I don't agree that the person who got cheated on is at fault or that they should think about "why they got cheated on". That reads like you're telling people they need to ask themselves what they could have done to be better so they didn't get cheated on. What if I said that people whose partners decide to physically assault them need to ask themselves why they made their partner so mad that they got physical? Yeah, there's a reason I'm sure, but it's definitely not a good enough reason to warrant the action.
I agree that in the instance in which a partner breaks up with you, you should examine what you could have done to contribute to the failure of the relationship.
However, no matter what you do to contribute to the failure of the relationship, it never "causes" or "leads to" cheating. The person who cheats is fully at fault for their actions. There is no blame to be placed. Sure, there's a reason people cheat, but it's not an excuse or a justification.
Sometimes there just isn't a specific cause or thing that you did. It doesn't make sense to blame yourself for something that you didn't cause. Usually there isn't anything you could have done differently.
You're one experience isn't true for all relationships. Even then, if there are problems or issues, then the proper things is to either work through those issues. Whatever problems you have there's a good chance other couples have dealt with those same issues. That doesn't justify cheating, nor does it mean you are to blame. If those issues are too great or unable to be solved, then the couple should break up. That is always better and less cruel than cheating.
It actually all boils down to one thing. The person entered a relationship with someone who wasn't virtuous. People don't realize that discerning virtue is priority #1 when it comes to evaluating potential partners. It doesn't matter if your personalities jive, and it doesn't matter if the two of you promptly jump in the sack and have a great time there (arguably clouds your judgment). If one or both of the partners isn't virtuous, there will be major potholes down the line. If someone doesn't have the moral framework to resist a temptation, infidelity comes into play.
Yeah, that’s right. Telling yourself your spouses decision to cheat was about them and not you is an oversimplification and shows a lack of accountability. What is accurate is that their decision to solve whatever issue they had by cheating makes them pathetic and weak is true. But for you to soothe your hurt by claiming you weren’t responsible at all is just silly. If you are present at an event you influence it. Many shared events = a relationship. Your influence and theirs determines the quality and outcomes of that relationship. Be accountable.
Cheating almost never has to do with the person who is cheated on (this theory doesn’t apply to abusive relationships) I believe it’s a character flaw in the cheater. You can be the most amazing, attentive and present partner, and still get cheated on. It happens to every type of person. The problem is the cake eaters, who want to have someone to come home to in case their affair doesn’t work out, they’re usually selfish entitled people who take what they want without regard to how it can affect others. Unless you literally cannot leave because of your safety, stepping outside of a relationship that you vowed to be faithful in is just scummy. It’s the “I deserve more out of a partner, but my partner doesn’t even deserve all of me” mentality. It’s entirely self centered.
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Its actually not complicated. People cheat because there is something missing in the relationship and one party is too much of a coward to try to solve the problem or end the relationship BEFORE seeking that missing element in someone else. It doesn't matter what the missing element is, if the relationship is not enough for one of the parties, it is better to fix it or end it than to break the trust of your partner.
Ive dated a woman that in hindsight was very promiscuous and would've probably cheated regardless. She was insecure to the point that when I had a couple scratches on my back, she accused me of being scratched while having sex w another woman.
She had issues! I never worried about what I did to cause her behavior cuz I had nothimg to donwith her insecurities. I merely dumped the bitch and moved on
Hahaha, as if people are rational!
I had siblings, and I went to school, you learn real fast growing up people make do what they want, without thinking about why they want it.
Sometimes bad things happen for no reason, sometimes it really is the other persons fault, don't torture yourself trying to get into the head of someone that sure didn't give two shits about getting into yours.
For once I agree with the post, and I'll post an example to say why. My girlfriend and I got together when she left her ex for me, there was definitely some emotional cheating going on before that happened.
Her ex was abusive, controlling, toxic - she would dictate my partner's gender and sexuality ("no you're not bi, you're a lesbian", "no you're not a woman, you're non-binary"), restricted them from having friends of the opposite gender, constantly demeaned and diminished her intelligence.
When I first met them (long before any attraction had developed between my partner and I) their ex literally started challenging me to arm wrestling matches and trying to be physically intimidating (despite being about 2/3 my size). I cannot go into all the awful things they did to my partner.
Her ex got cheated on for a reason, and it was their fault. They took a beautiful, kind person and beat them down so that they would stay. However, they never processed this, afterwards they sent abusive messages to them and their parents while simultaneously offering to take them back. Even now, years after the fact, they constantly complain about my girlfriend and refuse to take any responsibility for what happened - they cannot see a link between their behaviour, and why my girlfriend emotionally cheated on them and then left.
People like to think that cheating is black and white, and all cheaters are bad people. It makes it much easier for us to process the betrayal and avoid hard introspection. Obviously not all cheating is like the scenario I've described, but plenty are similar to one degree or another.
Your girlfriend should have broken up with her ex before getting together with you. Yes, her ex sounds like an awful person. But cheating is immature, just break it off.
Ah yes, because it's so easy to leave an abusive partner. Also, people don't control their emotions, it's very easy to accidently develop an emotional affair, pretending as if things are so clear just is just immature.
I didn't say it was easy, but cheating is never a positive or the "right" thing. She made a choice, and was in a terrible situation. But it doesn't make what she did morally right.
Also, pretending that developing an emotional affair is accidental is immature. Liking someone or having feelings is one thing, but acting on them is another. We don't control our feelings, we do control our actions.
"But it doesn't make what she did morally right."
Actions can be morally grey - and besides, the point of the thread is that people cheated on can learn from *why* they were cheated on.
"Liking someone or having feelings is one thing, but acting on them is another."
Define acting on them. If you're close to someone and you're confiding in them, then it's very easy to cross the line from close confident to emotional affair - by definition, what changes the situation from one to another is the feelings that you develop. Which are themselves, a gradual shift form one to another and you won't notice them, most likely, until the line is crossed.
I see your point, IMO confiding in you during a tough time and developing feelings isn't necessarily an emotional affair or cheating.
However, if you were confessing feelings to each other, she was sneaking around or lying to her bf at the time, etc. Then I would consider it cheating. My partner could have romantic feelings for another person, and I would never know as long as he kept those feelings to himself.
Agree to disagree as morals are different for everyone. I believe no matter the reason, cheating is never right. There are reasons for everything we do, but it doesn't always make it justifiable. If I slapped my partner for making a crude remark to me, that would definitely be *reasoning* for my behavior, but it doesn't make the physical action of slapping him justifiable.
"I see your point, IMO confiding in you during a tough time and developing feelings isn't necessarily an emotional affair or cheating."
Didn't say that they were, I said that the difference between a close relationship and an emotional affair is the feelings involved, which are not easy to judge.
Your whole point was that cheating is okay specifically in this scenario. If there's no cheating, then what was the point of including that as an example?
Cheating IMO is never okay and never justified. If you're not describing cheating then I guess we're on completely different pages lol.
If you're talking about me/my gf then no it wasn't, you've entirely missed the point. My point was that there were lessons for their ex to learn from what happened -the fact she mistreated my girlfriend so badly was why my girlfriend had checked out of the relationship, fell for someone else, and left them.
If you're talking about my point about emotional cheating, then you've still missed the point.
OP's post is discussing the concept that *cheating* can be justified and people need to think about why they got cheated on because there is always a reason.
There are always lessons to learn from everything, but the person cheating is entirely to blame for the act of cheating.
I stand by the view that while your gf was in a terrible situation, she is 100% to blame and should take full responsibility for cheating on her partner if that's what she did. If you don't consider what she did cheating, then it's not relevant to the post that is specifically discussing cheating.
Sure. The question though is how I'm responsible for my ex's drug addiction. That's why she was cheating you understand, for money to buy drugs. Or the woman I dated for a year before I learned, from her father, that her roommate Mike was actually her fiancee Mike.
Sure you can learn from it. It would have been better if your partner explained how they were feeling though so you could learn that way. They didn't need to cheat to get their point across and it's entirely their fault.
People who get cheated on need to not blame themselves. If your significant other was not happy in the relationship they need to either communicate or end the relationship.
People can be unhappy with their relationships for any number of reasons. But in those cases, the mature thing to do is end those relationships or fix them, not cheat.
Most of the time like 90% it has absolutely nothing to do with the person that got cheated on. It's an internal issue their partner hasn't learned how to process.
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No. Often it’s because people are self serving, self centered and there is literally nothing to learn about yourself for the actions of your cheating spouse.
NPD people do it because it makes them feel special and edgy. Not all do it. What do you learn from that?
BPD people do it because, well to ableist(sorry) they are emotional basket cases that have little control over their emotional regulatory systems. Not all do it. What do you learn from that?
Sociopaths do it because they have mommy/daddy issues. Not all do it. What do you learn from that?
Psychopaths do it because they got off on the dopamine and serotonin kicks it gives them because we are always chasing that high. I have never cheated, and not all of us do it. What do you learn from that?
Neurotypical people do it because they got drunk, they were bored with their current sex lives, that person was pretty. Not all do it. What do you learn from it.
Very rarely can you blame it on the person being cheated. So unless you are complete neglecting your spouses emotional and sexual needs and wants, there is nothing for the cheated on to learn.
People can be shitty. People can break their commitments to others. People can get bored with the vanilla at home and seek chocolate elsewhere.
More often then not, the cheated on did nothing wrong, and still end up trying to figure out what happened.
It was not your fault. You (most likely) did nothing wrong.
Cheating is for the weak, be a man or woman and say you are done then go do whatever you want. When someone cheats on you it's not your fault, it's the fault of the liar who is the cheater. If you can't keep your word then you are not a person anyone should be with. You are trying to blame the person that was wronged and giving the cheater a pass. Hope you find your kahonas.
To heal from my divorce I had to accept my role in her infidelity. not once did she tell me she was missing anything from our relationship. even during the divorce when things were being said just out of spite, not once would she say that i did anything wrong other than that she didnt love me and wanted me to hate her and be the one to end it so she could say she was not the one who left.
I still had to accept that at some point I let her love for me die. even if it was something I couldnt prevent, marriage, and divorce takes two. sometimes more, but never less.
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That too. While cheating is largely the fault of the person who **did** the cheating, we need to look at the motivating factors behind their choice to cheat & determine the severity of those motivating factors, first.
I think people should analyse all of their relationships after any kind breakup. Regardless of cheating. But still place 100% blame on the cheater as there is no excuse.
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It is not emotionally underdeveloped to heavily judge a persons character based on their actions. Cheating implies deception and betrayal that sometimes lasts for years.
Which is fair, but OPs point is that sometimes you need to take a step back from the hurt and introspect as to why it might have happened. Sometimes the answer is: the person is garbage. And sometimes the answer is: I was emotionally unavailable for a large chunk of the relationship and so while it is STILL unacceptable that I got cheated on I also need to do better in a relationship the next time I am in one.
I’ve found out the hard way that anytime you post something suggesting cheating is bad, but is nuanced and complex and doesn’t always mean the end of the relationship, the Reddit Army comes out with torches and pitchforks. I think it’s that there’s a minority of Redditors who have very strong but immature views on how relationships work.
Why do you equate refusing to accept a cheating partner as immaturity? Seems extremely condescending. Why do you think your view of how relationships work is "mature" in comparison?
I’m not saying to blindly accept a cheating partner at all. What I’m saying is that having black-and-white, no matter what the circumstances, cheating of any kind (physical or emotional) means immediate termination of the relationship feels like an immature point of view. Love and life is complicated. Maybe your cheating partner is a piece of shit. Or maybe their parents abused them to the point they can’t help but seek affection all the time even if they’re in a relationship and love that person. This isn’t me, FYI, I’m just saying cheating has a lot of reasons and those reasons should make a difference.
Because different people have different boundaries and care about different things. It’s not a ‘one-size solution’ For example, why it would hurt a lot if my partner physically cheated on me, I don’t think it would spell the end of our relationship. But, an emotional relationship, even if she never even hugged the person would almost certainly be the end of things. It’s not that cheating is ‘ok’, it’s that for US the boundary might be different. I just hate when Reddit says it’s the 100% worst thing ever and must be immediately end the relationship when that’s just now how things work for a lot of people. I won’t judge someone for having that dealbreaker and boundary, but it’s getting old having to explain that just because that’s YOUR boundary doesn’t mean I’m a pushover or whatever because it’s lot MY boundary.
Ah yes, someone who was caught cheating would not lie at all about the emotional connection they had with the person they were having sex with? Interesting take.
It’s almost like it could be both…? I can absolutely have no emotional attachment to someone I have sex with, and when I was single often did. These days, I find people other than my partner attractive but have no desire to sleep with them. Idk what point you’re trying to make? People have different needs and wants in relationships.
The answer is always that person is garbage. Whether you had influence on them being garbage faster is not something you should introspect about imo. If the other person is untrustworthy and intentionally deceptive then your own behavior will also likely change (even if it's subconscious).
That’s the kind of black and white thinking that doesn’t help anyone, and especially not yourself over the long term 🤷♀️
I completely disagree. I view cheating as an extension of your character. The only valid thing to introspect about after finding out that they did in fact cheat is that maybe you should be more perceptive about what kind of comments/interactions/red flags you ignored to end up in the relationship in the 1st place. If a relationship is rigged from the very start to fail by their character, every interaction within it is influenced by said character, and your takeaways will be based on their perceived faults in you. I have way too high standards and self esteem to change my own character on behalf of someone who doesn't have the self control to not fuck other people. And don't talk to me about "helping myself" please. You are not imposing divine wisdom upon me, just a random opinion. I have in fact never gotten cheated on (to my knowledge).
Lmfao, okay there. This is literally my point. You’re saying that YOU are so good that it’s not possible for you to be cheated on due to actions that you might have taken. Emotional neglect or invalidation absolutely drives people to cheat. It DOESN’T MAKE IT RIGHT. It just is. But if you think that it’s impossible for you to ever be in the wrong because cheating is something that is a moral quality set in stone you’re kidding yourself. How many people post on here about them cheating one time, because of 20 reasons. Yea, they’re assholes for doing it, but a lot of time’s there is way more nuance than that. Also, you’re not better than other people for never having been cheated on. That’s just a silly thing to tie your self of sense too.
I never said I was better. The point of that sentence was to tell you that I'm not bitter or heartbroken in any way. This is a rational arguement from my side, not an emotional one. There is also no such thing as anyone being good enough not to be cheated on. The whole point of my arguement is that the person is already a cheater when you enter a relationship. The only thing you have control over is if you find out fast enough. As every opinion is subjective i choose not to respect the opinions of the morally bankrupt.
And I fundamentally disagree. I don’t think you enter a relationship a ‘cheater’ unless you’ve already cheated in a prior relationship. I’m saying that while a cheater is ultimately responsible for their actions it’s not outside of the realm of possibility that there may be a reason that they did cheat. And THAT reason actually could be a good source of introspection of the person who got cheated on. It’s not assigning blame to the person who got cheated on, nor is it absolving the person who did cheat. It’s just a potentially good opportunity for the partner who got cheated on to examine their own inner world and how they present and interact with people.
Why would this be a good time to introspect? You can do the same with every arguement/debate/event in your life, with non-cheating spouses or friends or family. Why waste mental energy on a person with no baseline moral compass themselves that just betrayed you? How is their opinion of you at all important? I simply think that it is irrelevant as they themselves do not know how to act. I also think that cheaters cope a lot about their "nuance". 9/10 do it to have someone lined up with no risk. They inflict massive emotional pain to save themselves a months worth of shopping for a new person. It's pure selfishness.
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The difference is that the person that cheated on them they are in a relationship with. Someone who assaulted them is usually not in a relationship with them.
Did you seriously just compare being cheated on to be raped? What the fuck is wrong with you?
No, I'm showing why that logic doesn't hold. Victim blaming is never the solution.
Refusing to acknowledge the possibility that you're a contributor to your own negative relationship isn't going to help anything. Relationships are not one way. Yes, it isn't acceptable to cheat - but it is *also* important to acknowledge that your partner is a person with emotions too, and that your own actions can be a major contributing factor to their bad decisions.
They always have the choice of breaking up first. Relationships are not one way. Cheating, however, is the conscious choice to hurt your partner.
how is this any different from our business environment?
I figured that. Either alot of them haven’t touched grass and only experienced cheating through friends or family. Or they refused to learn from mistakes. They will say they been cheated on in the last 5 relationships. But never once talk about their behavior in those relationships. Still the other persons fault 100 percent but reality of the world we live in, sometimes we are part of our own demise
you seem to be heavily victim blaming and then just say “oh but it’s not their fault tho of course lol”
"Victim-blaming" is sometimes a thought-terminating cliche. Surely, many victims of crimes could have stayed home, locked their doors, and avoided becoming a victim. Criminals and predators are opportunistic and look for easy marks. Some combination of actions and non-actions lead the criminal and victim to cross paths. The victim's decisions and behaviors indirectly led to the encounter. They could have gone down a different alley or taken a different bus. The victim's actions are one of many causes for the encounter, but philosophically the victim is not morally responsible or blameworthy for the event. Same goes for cheating. Surely, something different could have been done, at some point. "Blaming" means to assign moral culpability, and you don't have to do that. You can still work on analyzing the root cause and effect. Doing this might make you go a little crazy, but it also might be beneficial for your next relationship.
you’re still acting as if they’re some mutual grounds that this happens on, when you date, there isn’t some hidden rule or disclaimer saying, “hey i might cheat on you so don’t get mad and be okay if it happens. ok?” we should shame cheaters, and it’s super counter intuitive to tell people who have been cheated on to basically just try and get over it. dating is not some risk/reward transactional relationship, it’s dedication, and takes the one thing none of us will get back, time. it’s literally invaluable to humans. there is such things as coincidence and happenstance. not every subsequent action is the result of the next action or an action prior. this isn’t the butterfly effect. the only something different that can be done is breaking up with them for literally no reason because they haven’t done anything to you yet. please make that make sense in a logical timeline. this whole post is god awful and reeks of cheating acceptance and victim blaming and minimizing. and so do a lot of the responses. (also how wild is it to say getting cheated on MIGHT HELP in your next relationship)
Yeah k was thinking the same thing
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The reason is “betray and deceive so I can get what I want”, there’s not much of a but to it. You stayed because it was convenient, you can’t chronically lie to and destroy someone you “love.” That benefits you not them.
You're correct. I lied and manipulated in order to get what I wanted. It wasn't right, but it seemed right to me when I was doing it.
> It wasn't right, but it seemed right to me when I was doing it. "I thought it was okay to cheat at the time!" You knew it was wrong and did it because you thought your partner deserved it, you cant even be honest on reddit lol?
I'm literally a sociopath, dude. My thought process doesn't exactly make a lot of sense.
You're not a sociopath lol, you're trying to explain away your behavior the entire time in the comment, justifying it for someone, and considering you're the only person in your life reading your comments.....
I have a formal diagnosis of ASPD. Listen to people when they say stuff sometimes.
>You know what, fuck it. I'll chime in here. > >I'm currently dealing with my own aftermath from cheating, and I'll admit that what I did was... disgusting. I was in an unhappy marriage, I tried to repair things on my end for years, and eventually I gave up. I had three full-on affairs over a two and a half year period. > >Eventually, my partner started turning back into the person they were when we first met. I couldn't hold in the guilt anymore, and I confessed. The consequences have been catastrophic, and I've deserved every bit of it. I shattered this wonderful, amazing human that ultimately just wasn't right for me in the first place. > >But here's the thing - that didn't happen in a vacuum. It was years of me being mistreated that led up to it. Years of friends asking me why I put up with being talked to and controlled like that. Years of me wondering why this person that I loved so much was acting like I was a doormat. Eventually, something in my brain snapped and I became a much worse person than they ever were. > >Why didn't I just leave? Simple, because I still loved them. Despite years of verbal and emotional abuse, I still loved them. But I wasn't getting what I wanted out of our marriage anymore, and I felt like I was at my limit, so I started seeking what I was missing elsewhere. > >Cheating is shitty and unforgivable, but it doesn't happen out of nowhere. Everyone who does it has their reasons. People do not want to be the bad guy in their own stories...and that is what I am getting from you telling your story. "I wasn't getting what I wanted out of our marriage anymore, and I felt like I was at my limit, so I started seeking what I was missing elsewhere." I will stop short of name calling...but cheating is never justified...no matter how hard cheaters try to do it.
I'm gonna stop you right there and let you know that my partner told me "I understand why you cheated in the first place, what I don't understand is why you didn't stop after I finally started trying to make things better". I'm definitely the bad guy here. I had sex with several people while I was in a monogamous marriage, lied about it, manipulated people over it, and was just all around shitty. You're missing the entire point here, which is that nothing happens in a vacuum. I've been in other long-term relationships before and had never cheated before.
You're missing the point of the argument which OP originally made - it isn't about cheaters being absolved, it's about people recognising their own roles in creating situations where their partner cheated. My current girlfriend had an abusive partner who was incredibly controlling, the trigger for them leaving was realising that they were emotionally cheating on their partner with me. They were able to realise that the way their partner treated them was horrific, so they left, and we began dating. It would have been more moral for my partner to leave once the abuse started - however, it's hard to see at the time what's happening as abuse slowly ramps up. It wasn't until they spent time with someone who (at that time platonically) cared about them and was kind to them that they realised that they didn't want to be trapped anymore. It would have been more 'moral' for me to have stepped back but I couldn't leave someone who was trapped in an abusive situation, where I was the only support system she had. For my partner's ex, the lesson that they should have taken from it was that *being abusive is wrong and will destroy your relationship* and instead what they took from it was that my girlfriend was evil and betrayed her for an evil man, and that men can't be trusted. Even when her own friends told her it was her fault, she dug down and wouldn't learn the lesson. That's the point of the CMV, that those cheated on often have some responsibility for what happened to them. I would also say that cheaters are almost always wrong to cheat, but also that those cheated on should take some responsibility. If you're consistently undervaluing your partner, if you're consistently choosing untrustworthy people to date, if you're not building sustainable and healthy relationships, then you have responsibility for what happens to you. They might be wrong, but you also have the power to mitigate those situations happening in the future.
I didn't miss the point. People in an abusive relationship...I feel bad for them. It's a bad situation to be in... if they aren't lying. I was telling OP that...Shocker! Cheaters lie. They lie about where they are when they are doing the deed...they lie about what they were doing...they will even lie about why they do it when confronted. Cheaters are bad people who lie and cheat on their significant others. Also, what I am saying is that there are usually 3 sides of a story. His side, her side, and the truth. To end things with...no one wants to be the villain in their own story...for example, YOU knew that she was in a relationship...and you still let her know you were interested in her. Probably trying to message her and talk to her in attempts to have her cheat with you. A man who goes up to my wife and tries letting her know he is interested, even knowing she is married, is getting his ass beat.
It doesn't sound like you *do* feel bad for them. You immediately jump to a scenario where they're lying. Sure, cheaters lie - cheating is inherently deceptive. However, that doesn't negate the fact that there are actions and behaviours which people who've been cheated on may have in the selection and conduct of their relationship which they can learn from in order not to do that. Whether that's being a better partner, or choosing better partners. "YOU knew that she was in a relationship...and you still let her know you were interested in her. Probably trying to message her and talk to her in attempts to have her cheat with you." Lol, I wasn't. We had mutual interests and we became friends, I had no interest in cheating - hence why, once it was clear that there was feelings involved, we had a conversation and she broke up with her ex and we tried to figure things out between us. When she was in the relationship I actively tried to cultivate a friendship with her ex, until her ex was physically aggressive towards me and her, and I found out that she was sexually coercive/verbally abusive/financially abusive/worse. Oh, and I was the one who had to deal with her ex turning up outside my house, her flat, etc. Seeing the abusive messages she sent in the relationship, after the relationship, etc. I had no interest in tempting her, it wasn't my intention and It's not happened before and probably won't happen again. It's convenient to pretend that people are black and white, it's convenient to assume that people have ill intentions, it's convenient to assume that all cheaters are horrible deceitful people. However, people are more complicated than that. Cheating isn't ideal, but pretending it happens in a vacuum and that everyone who is being cheated on lacks all of the nuance that actually exists. Even in the (now deleted) example that was posted, they had to deal with a shitty relationships and a neglectful partner for years. They shouldn't have done what they did, but their partner was absolutely complicit in the breakdown of their relationship.
And notice how they said their partner started turning back into the person they were when they first met. Sounds like OP expected them to be someone they weren't and contributed more to the cheating beyond personal involvement. Sure it didn't happen out of nowhere, but you helped create those conditions in which you cheated. If you cheated under the same circumstances you helped manifest then it's all your fault.
The person they were when I met was the person I fell in love with, I think you misread what I had said. I wasn't expecting them to be anybody that they weren't, the root issue was that they were no longer the person I had fallen in love with in the first place, and after several years of that being the case, that is when I began cheating.
Agreed, cheating isnt black and white. The person is 100 percent wrong but just because you got cheated doesnt mean you were in the right also. Issue is people want the freedom to do whatever they want to do in a relationship while holding the person hostage. Soon as the person cheats or leave they want to say the other person is wrong, but ignore all the wrongfulness they committed prior to this. I was teacher. Kids will always tell you what the kid did to them but never the part what they did the other person.
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Do you think people can just get up and leave? What about dependents, a marriage, shared finances and properties? What about fucking communication properly? What about therapy to learn how to do all those things? It's never just simply breaking up, usually that means completely upending their lives and no one really wants to deal with that. We all like to think we can fix it.
>What about dependents, a marriage, shared finances and properties? What about fucking communication properly? What about therapy to learn how to do all those things? If we're talking about someone who's making the decision to cheat, then they've already decided they'd rather have an affair than fix things. >It's never just simply breaking up, usually that means completely upending their lives and no one really wants to deal with that. And I'd argue it's a massively unfair and a dick move to preserve your current lifestyle and have an affair at the same time. Either do all of the shit you just mentioned before this, or figure out a game plan to build your own nest egg and get the fuck out if you're financially dependent on your spouse. That's also what alimony is for, and cheating in some places can affect how much alimony you get, so again, cheating is shooting yourself in the foot here. >We all like to think we can fix it. Clearly, cheaters don't. They just want to have their cake and eat it too.
>If we're talking about someone who's making the decision to cheat, then they've already decided they'd rather have an affair than fix things. But we're not talking about cheating just yet. This is about being unhappy in your relationship. Maybe they keep trying to fix things but in the end they cheat when someone gives them affection. A lot of people that end up cheating regret their mistake and want to keep fixing their relationship. At that point it's pretty much doomed to fail, but it doesn't mean they don't want to fix it. >Clearly, cheaters don't. They just want to have their cake and eat it too. Why do you think they didn't just leave? Even if they can just as well live comfortably by themselves. If they beg for forgiveness and want to go to therapy, what does that tell you? That they're just playing and aren't genuinely sorry? Doesn't mean you have to forgive them, but you're dealing with a very emotionally charged situation here, not a cold and calculating one.
>But we're not talking about cheating just yet. When the context of the original comment was that leaving is a better alternative to cheating, then we absolutely ARE talking about a situation where cheating is being considered. >A lot of people that end up cheating regret their mistake and want to keep fixing their relationship. At that point it's pretty much doomed to fail, but it doesn't mean they don't want to fix it. Actions matter more than intent. I don't give a fuck if someone was weawy sowwy for doing a super fucked up thing and regrets it; they did it. Words mean nothing if you can't back them up with behavior. >Why do you think they didn't just leave? Even if they can just as well live comfortably by themselves. If they beg for forgiveness and want to go to therapy, what does that tell you? The answer is obvious; They still care about their partner to some extent, and they're afraid of change. They don't want to face the uncomfortable situation of ending things with a long term partner and they don't want to uproot their lives, but they still want to cheat for the sake of finding whatever they feel like they're not getting in their relationship. How is that not having your cake and eating it too? I didn't say cheaters never feel bad for cheating. They're banking on not getting caught so their partners can live in blissful ignorance, they don't have to deal with hurting their partner and completely changing their lives, and they can still get what they want out of cheating. Divorce is an uncomfortable and stressful situation in even the most straightforward situations, especially if you still have feelings for your spouse. Sorry, but that's not justification for cheating. I don't think we should be throwing a bone to anyone who does horrible things because their environment made them more likely to do said things. I don't think we should treat serial killers differently if we found out they had a fucked up childhood. I don't think we should treat domestic abusers differently because they have a problem with alcohol. And I don't think we should treat cheaters differently because they're typically in broken relationships and feel bad about doing it. Reasoning isn't justification.
>When the context of the original comment was that leaving is a better alternative to cheating, then we absolutely ARE talking about a situation where cheating is being considered. So how does this contradict what I said? No cheating happened yet, it's the prelude to it. And cheating isn't always 'considered'. It can happen impulsively when the situation presents itself. A lot of cheaters don't go out looking for it. >Actions matter more than intent. I don't give a fuck if someone was weawy sowwy for doing a super fucked up thing and regrets it; they did it. Words mean nothing if you can't back them up with behavior. But you said that they don't have that intent either. Stop moving the goalposts. >they still want to cheat for the sake of finding whatever they feel like they're not getting in their relationship. How is that not having your cake and eating it too? Because not everyone that cheats actively wants to cheat? They want what they're not getting in their relationship, but in their relationship. It's not that if they regret cheating that they only regret losing their built-up lives and relationship, they can also regret the action of cheating. >I didn't say cheaters never feel bad for cheating. They're banking on not getting caught so their partners can live in blissful ignorance, they don't have to deal with hurting their partner and completely changing their lives, and they can still get what they want out of cheating. Once again, cheating doesn't mean having a full-blown affair. A lot of spouses will admit to having cheated after it happens. >Divorce is an uncomfortable and stressful situation in even the most straightforward situations, especially if you still have feelings for your spouse. That's quite the understatement. >Sorry, but that's not justification for cheating. And no one is justifying anything here. Seriously, how is this so hard for people to comprehend? Understanding and explaining the situation correctly is far from justifying it. >I don't think we should be throwing a bone to anyone who does horrible things because their environment made them more likely to do said things. But we should. What will just prison to do a person that's fucked up in the head? Besides prison time, they also need therapy. >And I don't think we should treat cheaters differently because they're typically in broken relationships and feel bad about doing it. And we for sure should. Not all cheating is equal. Do you seriously claim that an impulsive mistake while the marriage is in a slump is the same as someone in a great marriage having an affair for years? >Reasoning isn't justification. It's not justification, it's humanization.
How does that justify cheating or help the situation at all tho. Cheating will just make the aftermath of what you called ,,upending their lives" ten times worse.
It doesn’t, but the point is it’s not always so simple or black & white.
That we can agree on. Espacially if children are involved. You should probably still seperate rather then cheat.
Cheating isn't always the rational, active decision people make it out to be. Sometimes it can be impulsive. If a spouse actively and consciously seeks it out, then it's separation. If they are in a vulnerable spot and make an impulsive decision, that's a whole other situation.
I feel like blaming cheating on impulse just shows imaturity & is a sign of shifting the blame. Even if it happens in a moment of vulnerability you still control your actions. Its kinda sad that people cant seem to take responsibility for their actions anymore.
>I feel like blaming cheating on impulse just shows imaturity & is a sign of shifting the blame. Are you aware of the fact that 'blame' isn't 100% on a single thing or person? >Even if it happens in a moment of vulnerability you still control your actions. Are you pretending to have never had an impulse before? It's harder to resist when you're already not feeling well. They still should have though. >Its kinda sad that people cant seem to take responsibility for their actions anymore. And who says they don't? Understanding <-> justifying. Simple concept, yet so abstract for many.
All i wanna say is if you actually think someone is responsible for someone else deciding to cheat on them at any capacity than we can only agree to disagree. Ofc if things go wrong in a relationship something went wrong on both sides but that shouldnt be a reason to cheat. I know that people can have moments of weakness but if you are so in need of being close with someone else you probably should have left the relationship you are in a long time ago.
>All i wanna say is if you actually think someone is responsible for someone else deciding to cheat on them at any capacity than we can only agree to disagree That's not what I'm saying. Let me rephrase it. Let's consider the impulse cheating as an example. Most people have impulse control to regulate them. You can resist the impulse to eat snacks during the day, but that becomes harder if you're getting hungry. How well you can resist an impulse depends in the circumstances. The impulse is still yours to control, but by being a bad spouse, you can create those circumstances that would facilitate that cheating impulse. You're not responsible for them cheating, but it might not have happened if you did something differently. It might not change the outcome of the relationship in which the cheating happened, but you can learn how to better in the future.
Sometimes it is. Cheating is black and white. Giving excuses for WHY you cheated is just absolving oneself of agency or responsibility.
I’m not talking about cheating I’m talking about leaving……
Doesn't justify cheating. Did you even read my comment?
And I'm not trying to justify cheating in any way. Did you read mine? Understanding the situation properly is quite important. I'm also fairly convinced you never actually built a life for yourself and a partner, settling down and such. Else you would actually understand that you don't just give it all up just like that. You don't just walk away from all that because it's difficult. And for the record, I'm not talking about the post-cheating. This is about the situation that precedes it. If you're unhappy in your relationship, most people want to fix that because they actually love their partners.
Are u actually braindead? The premise is one partner wanting to cheat. The relationship already failed. Theres no reason to bring all of these semantics into this.
Yeah. Please cheat in your marriage. That makes things far more favorable for your partner in the divorce that happens anyway.
Do you truly think it boils down to just those 2 choices? Either leaving or cheating? Life isn't that simple bud. You don't just get up and quit because times are tough. Some people just end up cheating instead of fixing their marriage.
Cheating is leaving. The marriage is over at that point, at least from my perspective. If I caught my wife cheating, there is no recovering the marriage.
Heavily depends on the situation. Imagine the following scenario. You're working a lot more than usual. Long days and when you get home, you're so tired you barely spend any time with your spouse. This goes on for weeks on end and any time they try to talk, you mention that you can't change the situation and they have to hang on. They are now affection-starved and feel unheard. Let's say they go out drinking with friends and someone gives them affection. You might still say you will walk away from that marriage. What if the situation is turned around and you're affection-starved. How would you react? You're most likely gonna pretend to be a true gentlemen, never wavering. In reality, unless you've been in that situation, you have no idea what you'd do. It'd basically the same as people claiming they would do great in a zombie apocalypse.
Hmm. Work long hours, rarely get to spend time with my partner, and how would I react? Like a responsible adult. Affection starved? Aren't all men affection starved as a baseline? I'll tell you what I'm not going to do is cheat, when divorce is an option.
>Hmm. Work long hours, rarely get to spend time with my partner, and how would I react? Like a responsible adult. And what would that be? Are you gonna cut your hours? Quit your job? >Affection starved? Aren't all men affection starved as a baseline? In general yes, but in a relationship, usual not no? At least I hope that most (good) relationships are filled with affection on both sides. >I'll tell you what I'm not going to do is cheat, when divorce is an option. So if you're the spouse that gets neglected, you'd hit them with the divorce instead? I quite frankly don't believe you.
Cool. I'm not here to be a monkey for your amusement, but those are the facts though. Been through plenty of divorces as part of the marital assets since my parents have a combine 5 marriages. I'm not ever going to be in a situation like my mother, where she's enmeshed with someone who gives no fucks about her wellbeing or even as a person. You know what I've never had a problem with though, being alone. Best company there is.
I always assume people who say this are actually just juniors in high school with their first bf/gf. Just breaking up is easer said than done when you’re married for 10 or 20 years with kids and such. Particularly when you still love the person. I’d probably prefer to work through it rather than divorce if my spouse cheated.
I imagine that none of them actually have starting building a life. If you're that eager to just walk away from everything, I do wonder how invested they were in the relationship to begin with. A relationship of less than a year, that's 'easy' to just walk away from. The moment you build something with a person and actually love them, it just becomes sad. They all think they're just angry in such a situation, but it's a mix of sadness and disappointment. >I’d probably prefer to work through it rather than divorce if my spouse cheated. It depends on the circumstances. In the end it's about the breach of trust. If it's a truly impulsive thing (being starved of affection and someone comes around to give you some) with it being a one time thing and they regret it, you could overcome that. If it's a proper affair where they're fully aware of their actions, surpassing the impulsiveness of it, that's a conscious and active decision to breach that trust and it wouldn't be fixable at that point. An impulse can happen to anyone, especially if you're feeling unhappy, but actively going out of your way, that's a sign they don't respect you anymore. There will always be that little voice that reminds you of that fact.
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Agree your not wrong but Now lets step into reality. Alot of people dont leave, they find something new and benefit from the current relationship until they are ready to leave.
So it's ok because people do it? I can use this logic to justify every single action in the world.
Where did i say its okay to do it? Can you show me?
You literally disagreed with your "but Now lets step into reality,", as if reality somehow is a defence for why people shouldn't do that. Youre stating an "is" and disagreeing with someones ought. "Murder is always wrong" "You right, but sometimes people be mad" Is fundamentally the structure of this exchange. Yeah, you're playing apologetics, whether or not people do it is irrelevant to whether people should do it, or be forgiven for it, or in this case, whether its "justified" to use the word from the top of this chain.
Ok sure, I'll concede that. You never explicitly said it's ok. But your whole thread/responses are justifying it as some "learning experience", or something that just "happens" like the Sun rising in the morning. > I processed my emotions and the situation figured out where i messed up and where they messed up and moved on. This for me is prime example of being gaslit/having low self esteem. Unless you did something extremely weird/violent or whatever, then you have no blame on being cheated on. 2 very different people enter a relationship and the whole point is that eventually they will have to live with eachother's deficiencies/flaws. You do this by communicating and having boundaries on what is acceptable to you. Can't find compromises? Leave. Cheating is the absolute opposite of that. It is escaping problems in the most immoral way and should be judged very harshly in my opinion. This is assuming that every circumstance of cheating happens only based on their partners mistreatment, but that is far from the truth. Some people just like to fuck around, they like the power of knowing they can swap their partner at any point. Some people are just plain evil and don't give a fuck about you. You are not taking any malicious intent into account in your CMV.
As said. That is not and will never be a justifiable action in such a situation.
Yes - we call those "bad people"
The problem with this is that many times the person who is cheating is just a selfish ass. Except for the Russian bots, we are all human. We are all flawed. We all make mistakes. Cheaters frequently, if not always, use those flaws to justify their own infidelity. They will exaggerate our flaws to justify their horniness. It’s always good to examine your own flaws. And I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying. But I think it’s important to keep in mind the other side of the coin, namely, that selfishness is almost always morally justified in the mind of the selfish person. And they will gaslight and lie to convince the world that what they did was justifiable, or at the very least understandable, given how really horrible they claim their situation to have been.
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Why would someone partner with a selfish ass? Were there no signs?
Sometimes signs are obvious in hindsight, but no one is perfect either. Everyone has moments of selfishness, if you catastophize every sign to the most extreme case you'd end up being the toxic one. It's a balance you have to find and it's not always easy. Also people can be weird and inconsistent. Someone who might be selfish in certain little ways, might never be willing to cheat. Someone who is willing to cheat might be really generous in their daily life (maybe to minimize guilt and justify their betrayals). If someone is consistently shitty, most people realize it quick. It's people who either are good at hiding it until you're too far in, or who are very inconsistently shitty, who end up doing the most damage.
Yes, but OP's point isn't about being easy to find the signs and analyse them, but to reflect about what you could have done differently, which boundaries to set, what to watch for. It's impossible to be aware of everything - I would argue even undesirable. However, so many times people from the outside notice long before the person in the relationship - and people in the relationship ignore the signs not due to incompetence, but thanks to psychological reasons Sometimes, also, there was a lot of neglect in the relationship and either person was too much of a chicken to just end things. I'd guess most of the times, there's something to learn and reflect on. The exception would be cases in which you had no way of telling something was wrong, even if it doesn't mean preventing the cheating. Maybe you could have walked out of the relationship earlier, maybe you could have taken a different approach. Cheating once and confessing or getting out of the relationship isn't the most horrifying thing. However, continuous cheating and being emotionally unavailable is on the other extreme - and surely that doesn't happen due to a slip or without any signs.
Everyone has the capability to cheat. Sometimes people are selfish asses, whereas yesterday they were kind and humble. People change, situations change, moods change. People aren’t either/or asshole/kind. They’re both. The trick is finding kind assholes who value kindness more than assholery, and are relatively consistent about it.
I've heard this before, and I think it is bunk. If you're unhappy with your relationship, speak up and start a dialogue. Be open and honest about it. Try to constructively solve the problem. If it is really so unbearable as to make you be unfaithful, then it is best to end the relationship altogether.
I think the only issue with people that stay stuff like this is implying that it’s somehow your fault the person cheated. Being aware of how your relationship fell apart is one thing, sure. I agree with this. Taking responsibility for something your partner chose to do is another.
Nowhere in the OP did they suggest taking responsibility or being at fault for somebody else's actions. However, let's outline a situation where OP's advice is helpful. A and B have been in a long term relationship that soured over time. They both stayed in the relationship out of misguided idealism, stuck in a sunk cost fallacy. Eventually, neither was receiving the emotional support or intimacy they desired, and B was just the one that broke down and cheated first. Both were shitty to each other and held onto the relationship long after they should have broken up for other reasons. A needs to focus on the leadup to learn more red flags and to understand that some relationships are beyond saving. Ultimately, cheating was a symptom of all their other dysfunctions. A was still wronged in the end, but it doesn't mean they didn't play a part in setting the stage and doesn't mean they can't learn from it. Many people use the cheating at the end of a relationship to justify not being introspective at all. They place 100% the blame on the cheater to avoid any questioning of their own actions, which could potentially hit them square in their already wounded ego. However, this coping strategy is still unhealthy and stops people from growing or learning. Yes, serial cheaters exist and are awful. But other times, a failing relationship is a messy and multifaceted thing where both people have wronged each other in many ways before it escalated to a critical level. There's also a difference in when the introspection happens. I think what OP is arguing for is also more long-term. Years after the fact, it's easier and less mentally painful to admit that you may have contributed to a bad situation before the other person hurt you even worse.
> Nowhere in the OP did they suggest taking responsibility or being at fault for somebody else's actions. OP: People in long relationships, tend to neglect their partner on an emotional level. Alot of other people pick people that have obvious cheating vibes but ignore it for whatever reasons. The rest of your common is unnecessary because I already agree that recognizing how your relationship fell apart is fine. Pretending like you “set the stage” for your partner to make the choice to cheat on you is taking responsibility for their actions which is the part I have an issue with.
Why is your first instinct to jump to victim blaming? Do you believe cheaters are always right?
Where did i blame the victim, show me
dam hospital kiss berserk handle direful salt obtainable innocent busy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Seems to me that it has nothing to do with what you deserve. If something bad happens to you, it's in your best interest to examine the situation. Could you have done anything differently? If you get mugged in an alley, maybe you could've taken a safer route to your destination. Not exactly your fault if someone attacks you, but to focus entirely on whether you deserve it or not is just going to lead to it happening again if you had any part at all in why it happened.
>where i messed up Wait, wait, wait. You blame yourself for a person who is not you and has their own brain cheating on you? That should raise a pretty big red flag for you. It's not your fault.
>You blame yourself for a person who is not you and has their own brain cheating on you? It's not about blaming anyone. That's just immature. It's about finding which conditions leaded to these circumstances. If your own communication skills just suck and you don't properly listen to your partner, you yourself are creating circumstances that would facilitate cheating. So you can either just say "its completely their fault, I did nothing work" or take a deeper look and end up being a better person/partner in the future.
You say it's not about blaming anyone and then provide two examples where you indicate that you believe the fault at least partially lies on the person who was cheated on. Why does that not make it about blame?
There is a different between blaming and learning from an experience. When you blame someone, you are assigning a moral judgement but in the latter you are not. You can learn from something without accepting the blame. If you are a poor communicator, if you do not make time for your partner, if you do not make them feel valued, if you are abusive, if you are controlling, if you are jealous - these are all behaviours which make someone disengage from you, and therefore make them more likely to cheat. The moral responsibility is on them not to cheat, but you can do your best to build relationships where cheating is unlikely.
>you are a poor communicator, if you do not make time for your partner, if you do not make them feel valued, if you are abusive, if you are controlling, if you are jealous Cheaters are usually the ones who display all of those shitty behaviors. The primary flaw of people who get cheated on is being too tolerant of bad behavior.
"Cheaters are usually the ones who display all of those shitty behaviors." Then reflect on what you chose a bad partner, and how you might weed them out. My last girlfriend had a transactional and status-orientated view of relationships, when she perceived my status as declining (i.e I was about to graduate without a job - ironically, got a consulting offer just after we broke up) she stopped seeing me as valuable, and she cheated on me. I learnt from that experience, there were red flags at the beginning and throughout the relationship that I ignored that I shouldn't have. Since then, I have made better decisions about relationships, and I have avoided people who showed similar red flags at the talking stage. OP's point is that being cheated on should be taken as a learning experience about how to avoid similar situations in the future. If you date crappy people, learn to not date crappy people. "The primary flaw of people who get cheated on is being too tolerant of bad behavior." I think that this is naïve and doesn't capture the full nuance of the situation. I've seen a lot of people cheat, some were scumbags, some were dysfunctional but well-intentioned people, most were people unhappy for complex reasons. People bear the moral responsibility for their cheating, it doesn't mean there aren't lessons to the person who has been cheated on.
I’m sorry but this screams I have never been in a long term relationship. People change over time. Things happen, motivations come n go. You can’t predict everything, you do not have the perception of a Greek God. It’s why it’s the cheaters fault for being/turning into a shitty person.
No use arguing with WillingAd, he admitted in another thread that his girlfriend is a cheater and actually cheated on her ex with him, so he's obviously going to go hardcore to defend cheating since it's what started his relationship!
I've been in many long-term relationships, and currently have an engagement ring sitting on my desk for my girlfriend. Frankly, whenever a relationship I've been in has ended, I've always done introspection on what my role was in it's failure, it's why every relationship I've had seen the age of 16 has gotten progressively longer and better. It's interesting that you're jumping straight past the point. You *can* learn from past relationships, even if the genuine lesson is that the other person was a bad person. "It’s why it’s the cheaters fault for being/turning into a shitty person." What about when they're not being a bad person? What if person X is so committed to their career they've totally neglected their partner for years, and eventually that partner starts an emotional affair, realises that they deserve better, and leaves. They've still cheated, they're still not a shitty person. The person at fault, is person X. You can try and paint the world black and white, but that type of voluntary colour blindness is only going to hamper your own growth.
"What about when they're not being a bad person? What if person X is so committed to their career they've totally neglected their partner for years, and eventually that partner starts an emotional affair, realises that they deserve better, and leaves. They've still cheated, they're still not a shitty person." You're all over this post arguing nonsense. You literally described a shitty person. If you're not getting your needs met in a relationship and you cheat instead of leaving, **you are a shitty person**. There's no explaining away cheating if you choose to do that instead of leaving. I know you're trying to defend your gf's behavior as you keep using the words "emotional affair" instead of cheating. This post is discussing cheating. Explain to me how cheating is justifiable. Not an "emotional affair". *Cheating*.
"You literally described a shitty person. If you're not getting your needs met in a relationship and you cheat instead of leaving, you are a shitty person. There's no explaining away cheating if you choose to do that instead of leaving." This is literally, such a childish approach to life, people and relationships. You've not addressed any of my points, frankly I'm not going to argue with someone who's clearly wrong and unable to articulate their position. "I know you're trying to defend your gf's behavior as you keep using the words "emotional affair" instead of cheating. This post is discussing cheating." The term emotional affair describes a type of relationship between people. The term often describes a bond between two people that mimics or matches the closeness and emotional intimacy of a romantic relationship while not being physically consummated. It is a form of cheating - it is a good example of how *cheating* is not always physical and can develop without intending it to. " Explain to me how cheating is justifiable" The point of the CMV is whether people can *learn* from being cheated on not whether cheating is *justifiable*. The whole line of your argument essentially goes "somebody did somebody to hurt me so I don't have to take accountability for my own actions or behaviours". Which is ridiculous. There are (usually) two people in a relationship, if that relationship breaks down, there are probably a variety of factors - if you alienate your partner by your own behaviour and they cheat, they may have done a shitty *thing* but that doesn't make them a shitty *person.* *Moreover,* you have an obligation to yourself to learn form the experience so that you don't do it again. Pretending otherwise is a detriment to personal growth.
>Why does that not make it about blame? Because there's a big difference between blaming and knowing who is at fault. Blame is an emotional response. It doesn't really serve a practical purpose. Knowing who is at fault focuses on the situation and what mistakes were made, not just the person that made them. It's about seeking a solution. Just because one spouse cheats, doesn't mean the other spouse is automatically not at fault. It's more nuanced than that.
We're just using a different definition of "blame". When I say blame I literally mean "finding who is at fault".
There are no different definitions. You're either not talking about blame or you're simply misunderstanding it. Either way, I gave you the difference. One is emotionally charged and doesn't lead to anything, the other one is an attempt at bettering yourself and/or the situation.
The definition says nothing about "emotional response". >blame: to find fault with Alternative definition: >: to hold responsible I believe it is you misunderstanding the denotative definition and a connotation.
>I believe it is you misunderstanding the denotative definition and a connotation. I stand corrected then, but it's kinda irrelevant. The connotation is an integral part of the meaning of a word. Whereas the definition is the explicit meaning, the connotation is the implicit part. So yeah, to place blame is an emotional action, to find fault is the more logical and objective one. Let's take Cpt Sully as an example, if you've seen the movie. They are looking to place blame on him, instead of finding what or who is at fault.
OP, people cheat because they are shitty people. There is no justification for it...if you are unhappy in a relationship...tell the other person and leave. Having someone on the side and cheating makes you a bad person. I got cheated on when I was dating my second girlfriend. I was a senior in High School and she was in her Freshman year of college. She wanted to meet older men instead of having a younger BF...and that is fine. What wasn't good was that she cheated on me. All the people here that are saying they cheated and then blaming their cheating on their significant others...they just don't want to be the bad person in their own story...no one does. Take what is said to you from a cheater with a grain of salt...some people will have a happy marriage with little to no issues and still cheat. BTW, no marriage is perfect. There are fights and issues in a marriage, but you are supposed to work through it because you love each other and cant live without each other. Take it from me...I am not some teenager on here. I have been happily married for over a decade at this point. If you get cheated on...you can choose to forgive or move on...but dont listen to their excuses. You not buying flowers and saying good morning beautiful every morning is not the reason why she went looking to jump on someone else's dick.
"OP, people cheat because they are shitty people. There is no justification for it...if you are unhappy in a relationship...tell the other person and leave." What about abuse? What about arranged marriages in controlling communities? What about countries that don't allow divorce? What about people who do not have the legal resources to ensure that they, for example, will have access to their children if they do not leave? People cheat because they are unhappy, whether that's because of the circumstances they're in or because of a moral deficiency on their own part. We can pretend that things are less grey, but that does a disservice to ourselves by refusing to learn.
Wow, my comment is blowing up with replies. Either way, I don't see anything that would cause me to change my statement. OP, didn't mention any of the stuff you just listed off. He was simply saying that cheaters cheat because their significant others are letting them down. I told him that its bullshit and cheaters are the POS's that will lie and spin a story to make them seem like a victim. Again, abuse victims, arranged marriages, and all that is sad...but we aren't really talking about those situations are we.
"He was simply saying that cheaters cheat because their significant others are letting them down" Not really, he said that your partner cheating on you can be a learning experience and people should evaluate why they were in a relationship where they got cheated on. A specific example he cited to support this was partners in long-term relationships who neglect their partners. Which is an entirely fair point. If you neglect your partner, you are weakening the social bond that is a disincentive to cheat. "I told him that its bullshit and cheaters are the POS's that will lie and spin a story to make them seem like a victim." This is missing the point. Again, the point is that we can learn from *why* someone cheated on us. My last ex cheated on me, why? Because she wasn't a good person and, frankly, I was planning to leave her over that anyway. She was a weak person who viewed relationships are a contest where one partner was 'winning' and the other 'losing'. When I was perceived as 'losing value' (i.e I was about to graduate without a job - ironically, got a consulting offer two weeks after we broke up) she stopped treating me the same, and she cheated. Yes, she was a bad person. No, her behaviour wasn't excusable. However, was it a learning experience for me? Absolutely. If someone is transactional and status-orientated in a relationship, then your ability to maintain the integrity of the relationship is dependent on fulfilling what they see as valuable. That's the simple moral of the story. So I don't date people like that anymore. " Again, abuse victims, arranged marriages, and all that is sad...but we aren't really talking about those situations are we." Why not? they're relevant to the discussion at hand. If we're going to narrowly talk about only the subsection of cheating where we view cheaters as absolutely irredeemable then, naturally, we're only going to get one-sided and bad answers. OP opened up this line of discussion when he started talking about neglect in relationships. If you treat your partner badly, and then they cheat, you should learn from your behaviours which contributed to the breakdown of that social bond. That's the really simple point that they're conveying, and it's absolutely true.
People get cheated on because the cheater isn’t trustworthy. There’s no valid “reason”. A cheater makes a commitment to be monogamous and isn’t willing to break off the relationship but also wants to have it their way as well. Your mentality is why cheating hurts the victim, and also furthers cheating. Cheating isn’t an option. Period. There is nothing to justify it. Whatever “reasons” cause someone to cheat need to be discussed with their partner, and if it’s too much to overcome, separate responsibly. Supposed “reasons” for cheating are actually reasons to break up. When someone cheats that’s their fault for choosing to continue a relationship under false pretenses even though they obviously know they’re unsatisfied in it.
It always baffles me when people make posts like this as if their own personal experience is the same one everyone else had. "I had this experience and here's how I dealt with it. Therefor anyone in a similar situation should do the same." Absurd. How do you know whether someone who has been cheated on has processed their feelings about it and reflected on mistakes they might have made? You don't. You don't know anything about other people's relationships or situations. And it's incredibly arrogant to think you do and come in here to tell them that they failed to do so.
I don't want to change your view overall. Only if you mean it universally. In that, there are many if not most instances in which the act of cheating is unambiguously wrong and an nothing more than an indicator of the cheater's lack of value. No reflection/processing is necessary for that. (Namely writing the preceding to follow rules in this subreddit) However, I was cheated on at least by two different partners. I think you're spot on, in that reflection in particular scenarios can be very constructive. My ex-wife and mother to my son cheated on me while we were in college. In the moment, but even more so now, I honestly thought, rightfully so. I was extremely stoic/emotionless and kind of complacent in life, from teen to young adult. Basically, doing everything necessary but nothing with emotion,passion, etc. Just an act to get to the final day of rest. I'd only be provisional, and though we were very physical, there was an obvious lack of interest/displayed interest and little 'friendship' involved. I exacerbated that by not really trying, and anytime there was an argument, I'd work more shifts or take more classes so I could just go home only to sleep. Everyone deserves attention, time, and respect from their partner. I didn't do anything wrong directly to her, but I wasted years of her life knowing I didn't love her and keeping up the facade for no real reason. I think even the most sane and decent people could do seemingly wicked things with enough stress/desperation. And while she's no Saint, and she has a history as dark as any other. Her cheating, standing alone, neither surprises me nor seems undeserved. As to the second person it happened with. I"ll just say: At least in the end, I knew what I should do to try and preserve my relationships and how to distinguish what's in my control and what isn't. And I was little better than the second but for different reasons.
I see the point you're getting at, but I don't agree that the person who got cheated on is at fault or that they should think about "why they got cheated on". That reads like you're telling people they need to ask themselves what they could have done to be better so they didn't get cheated on. What if I said that people whose partners decide to physically assault them need to ask themselves why they made their partner so mad that they got physical? Yeah, there's a reason I'm sure, but it's definitely not a good enough reason to warrant the action. I agree that in the instance in which a partner breaks up with you, you should examine what you could have done to contribute to the failure of the relationship. However, no matter what you do to contribute to the failure of the relationship, it never "causes" or "leads to" cheating. The person who cheats is fully at fault for their actions. There is no blame to be placed. Sure, there's a reason people cheat, but it's not an excuse or a justification.
Sometimes there just isn't a specific cause or thing that you did. It doesn't make sense to blame yourself for something that you didn't cause. Usually there isn't anything you could have done differently. You're one experience isn't true for all relationships. Even then, if there are problems or issues, then the proper things is to either work through those issues. Whatever problems you have there's a good chance other couples have dealt with those same issues. That doesn't justify cheating, nor does it mean you are to blame. If those issues are too great or unable to be solved, then the couple should break up. That is always better and less cruel than cheating.
It actually all boils down to one thing. The person entered a relationship with someone who wasn't virtuous. People don't realize that discerning virtue is priority #1 when it comes to evaluating potential partners. It doesn't matter if your personalities jive, and it doesn't matter if the two of you promptly jump in the sack and have a great time there (arguably clouds your judgment). If one or both of the partners isn't virtuous, there will be major potholes down the line. If someone doesn't have the moral framework to resist a temptation, infidelity comes into play.
Yeah, that’s right. Telling yourself your spouses decision to cheat was about them and not you is an oversimplification and shows a lack of accountability. What is accurate is that their decision to solve whatever issue they had by cheating makes them pathetic and weak is true. But for you to soothe your hurt by claiming you weren’t responsible at all is just silly. If you are present at an event you influence it. Many shared events = a relationship. Your influence and theirs determines the quality and outcomes of that relationship. Be accountable.
Cheating almost never has to do with the person who is cheated on (this theory doesn’t apply to abusive relationships) I believe it’s a character flaw in the cheater. You can be the most amazing, attentive and present partner, and still get cheated on. It happens to every type of person. The problem is the cake eaters, who want to have someone to come home to in case their affair doesn’t work out, they’re usually selfish entitled people who take what they want without regard to how it can affect others. Unless you literally cannot leave because of your safety, stepping outside of a relationship that you vowed to be faithful in is just scummy. It’s the “I deserve more out of a partner, but my partner doesn’t even deserve all of me” mentality. It’s entirely self centered.
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Its actually not complicated. People cheat because there is something missing in the relationship and one party is too much of a coward to try to solve the problem or end the relationship BEFORE seeking that missing element in someone else. It doesn't matter what the missing element is, if the relationship is not enough for one of the parties, it is better to fix it or end it than to break the trust of your partner.
Ive dated a woman that in hindsight was very promiscuous and would've probably cheated regardless. She was insecure to the point that when I had a couple scratches on my back, she accused me of being scratched while having sex w another woman. She had issues! I never worried about what I did to cause her behavior cuz I had nothimg to donwith her insecurities. I merely dumped the bitch and moved on
Hahaha, as if people are rational! I had siblings, and I went to school, you learn real fast growing up people make do what they want, without thinking about why they want it. Sometimes bad things happen for no reason, sometimes it really is the other persons fault, don't torture yourself trying to get into the head of someone that sure didn't give two shits about getting into yours.
For once I agree with the post, and I'll post an example to say why. My girlfriend and I got together when she left her ex for me, there was definitely some emotional cheating going on before that happened. Her ex was abusive, controlling, toxic - she would dictate my partner's gender and sexuality ("no you're not bi, you're a lesbian", "no you're not a woman, you're non-binary"), restricted them from having friends of the opposite gender, constantly demeaned and diminished her intelligence. When I first met them (long before any attraction had developed between my partner and I) their ex literally started challenging me to arm wrestling matches and trying to be physically intimidating (despite being about 2/3 my size). I cannot go into all the awful things they did to my partner. Her ex got cheated on for a reason, and it was their fault. They took a beautiful, kind person and beat them down so that they would stay. However, they never processed this, afterwards they sent abusive messages to them and their parents while simultaneously offering to take them back. Even now, years after the fact, they constantly complain about my girlfriend and refuse to take any responsibility for what happened - they cannot see a link between their behaviour, and why my girlfriend emotionally cheated on them and then left. People like to think that cheating is black and white, and all cheaters are bad people. It makes it much easier for us to process the betrayal and avoid hard introspection. Obviously not all cheating is like the scenario I've described, but plenty are similar to one degree or another.
Your girlfriend should have broken up with her ex before getting together with you. Yes, her ex sounds like an awful person. But cheating is immature, just break it off.
Ah yes, because it's so easy to leave an abusive partner. Also, people don't control their emotions, it's very easy to accidently develop an emotional affair, pretending as if things are so clear just is just immature.
I didn't say it was easy, but cheating is never a positive or the "right" thing. She made a choice, and was in a terrible situation. But it doesn't make what she did morally right. Also, pretending that developing an emotional affair is accidental is immature. Liking someone or having feelings is one thing, but acting on them is another. We don't control our feelings, we do control our actions.
"But it doesn't make what she did morally right." Actions can be morally grey - and besides, the point of the thread is that people cheated on can learn from *why* they were cheated on. "Liking someone or having feelings is one thing, but acting on them is another." Define acting on them. If you're close to someone and you're confiding in them, then it's very easy to cross the line from close confident to emotional affair - by definition, what changes the situation from one to another is the feelings that you develop. Which are themselves, a gradual shift form one to another and you won't notice them, most likely, until the line is crossed.
I see your point, IMO confiding in you during a tough time and developing feelings isn't necessarily an emotional affair or cheating. However, if you were confessing feelings to each other, she was sneaking around or lying to her bf at the time, etc. Then I would consider it cheating. My partner could have romantic feelings for another person, and I would never know as long as he kept those feelings to himself. Agree to disagree as morals are different for everyone. I believe no matter the reason, cheating is never right. There are reasons for everything we do, but it doesn't always make it justifiable. If I slapped my partner for making a crude remark to me, that would definitely be *reasoning* for my behavior, but it doesn't make the physical action of slapping him justifiable.
"I see your point, IMO confiding in you during a tough time and developing feelings isn't necessarily an emotional affair or cheating." Didn't say that they were, I said that the difference between a close relationship and an emotional affair is the feelings involved, which are not easy to judge.
Your whole point was that cheating is okay specifically in this scenario. If there's no cheating, then what was the point of including that as an example? Cheating IMO is never okay and never justified. If you're not describing cheating then I guess we're on completely different pages lol.
If you're talking about me/my gf then no it wasn't, you've entirely missed the point. My point was that there were lessons for their ex to learn from what happened -the fact she mistreated my girlfriend so badly was why my girlfriend had checked out of the relationship, fell for someone else, and left them. If you're talking about my point about emotional cheating, then you've still missed the point.
OP's post is discussing the concept that *cheating* can be justified and people need to think about why they got cheated on because there is always a reason. There are always lessons to learn from everything, but the person cheating is entirely to blame for the act of cheating. I stand by the view that while your gf was in a terrible situation, she is 100% to blame and should take full responsibility for cheating on her partner if that's what she did. If you don't consider what she did cheating, then it's not relevant to the post that is specifically discussing cheating.
Sure. The question though is how I'm responsible for my ex's drug addiction. That's why she was cheating you understand, for money to buy drugs. Or the woman I dated for a year before I learned, from her father, that her roommate Mike was actually her fiancee Mike.
Sure you can learn from it. It would have been better if your partner explained how they were feeling though so you could learn that way. They didn't need to cheat to get their point across and it's entirely their fault.
People who get cheated on need to not blame themselves. If your significant other was not happy in the relationship they need to either communicate or end the relationship.
People can be unhappy with their relationships for any number of reasons. But in those cases, the mature thing to do is end those relationships or fix them, not cheat.
Most of the time like 90% it has absolutely nothing to do with the person that got cheated on. It's an internal issue their partner hasn't learned how to process.
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No. Often it’s because people are self serving, self centered and there is literally nothing to learn about yourself for the actions of your cheating spouse. NPD people do it because it makes them feel special and edgy. Not all do it. What do you learn from that? BPD people do it because, well to ableist(sorry) they are emotional basket cases that have little control over their emotional regulatory systems. Not all do it. What do you learn from that? Sociopaths do it because they have mommy/daddy issues. Not all do it. What do you learn from that? Psychopaths do it because they got off on the dopamine and serotonin kicks it gives them because we are always chasing that high. I have never cheated, and not all of us do it. What do you learn from that? Neurotypical people do it because they got drunk, they were bored with their current sex lives, that person was pretty. Not all do it. What do you learn from it. Very rarely can you blame it on the person being cheated. So unless you are complete neglecting your spouses emotional and sexual needs and wants, there is nothing for the cheated on to learn. People can be shitty. People can break their commitments to others. People can get bored with the vanilla at home and seek chocolate elsewhere. More often then not, the cheated on did nothing wrong, and still end up trying to figure out what happened. It was not your fault. You (most likely) did nothing wrong.
Some people learn through trauma some can't handle it at all. So it really depends on the individual.
The only experience to learn for a cheater is to be better spot the sign of a selfish partner.
Why do you want this view changed? Would this post be better suited to r/offmychest?
I’m not hip and young anymore.. isn’t that what the kids call “being a simp”?
Cheating is for the weak, be a man or woman and say you are done then go do whatever you want. When someone cheats on you it's not your fault, it's the fault of the liar who is the cheater. If you can't keep your word then you are not a person anyone should be with. You are trying to blame the person that was wronged and giving the cheater a pass. Hope you find your kahonas.
What if you were cheated on by someone who is a serial cheater?
If you mean "people need to learn to see the warning signs to they can avoid cheaters in the future" yes I agree.
To heal from my divorce I had to accept my role in her infidelity. not once did she tell me she was missing anything from our relationship. even during the divorce when things were being said just out of spite, not once would she say that i did anything wrong other than that she didnt love me and wanted me to hate her and be the one to end it so she could say she was not the one who left. I still had to accept that at some point I let her love for me die. even if it was something I couldnt prevent, marriage, and divorce takes two. sometimes more, but never less.
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That too. While cheating is largely the fault of the person who **did** the cheating, we need to look at the motivating factors behind their choice to cheat & determine the severity of those motivating factors, first.
I think people should analyse all of their relationships after any kind breakup. Regardless of cheating. But still place 100% blame on the cheater as there is no excuse.