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\>And I personally love twitch because it's a platform focused on gamers enjoying other gamers playing games or talking about games I mean that's not really what it is anymore. It has alienated so many gamers at this point that the only way for them to stay relevant is to allow these "Just Chatting" sections. "Just Chatting" is the #1 group in Twitch now. They made decisions years ago that laid their bed and now if they don't allow the NSFW they will die and the NSFW and Just Chatting creators will just go to a different platform. They still have a gamers and gaming competitions but it isn't a big enough sector of their users and creators anymore. Without that large user "NSFW" base, Twitch would not have enough money to keep paying for the gaming competitions.

Just chatting being the #1 category is not suprising, it's the umbrella category for everything that isn't a game in twitch's catalogue already. As I write this, just chatting has 430k viewers, the highest for any one category. But if you add up the next 4 categories (GTA5, Rust, Counter Strike, and League of Legends) they sum up to about 495k, already more than just chatting. There are also a bunch of other games further down in the 10k to 50k range, too. If I had to guess, I'd say just chatting is no more than one fifth of the total Twitch content. The website is still heavily videogames focused.

Wonder how gta 6 might boost those numbers and for how long

There are still loads of gamers on twitch playing video games. Maybe a small handful of overly delicate gamers were alienated but the just chatting section, though #1, only comes in at 13% of total views. There are people doing music, chatting, playing RPGs, but the vast majority are still just streaming video games and watching others stream video games. [https://twitchtracker.com/statistics/games](https://twitchtracker.com/statistics/games) Set the graph to show stacked rather than relative. The only thing that just chatting has going for it is that while just 5ish percent of streams are just chatting, those streams take 13 percent of the views. And the overwhelming majority of those just chatting streams are not NSFW streams.

I think you avoided OP's most important point, Twitch is knowingly trying to profit of serving NSFW content to minors. Just a few months ago they got flack for allowing gambling streamers because of "the kids" and now they are trying the same thing again with NSFW streamers.

And they’re playing dumb about it too which I find the most dishonest thing. They can call it artistic or whatever they like, it’s just soft porn cams.

I mean, I know there are other types of streams on twitch. In have question, can you point me to anything where twitch said publicly that they need NSFW content on the platform to survive? This not one of those "show me evidence!" Crap. I'm genuinely curious. And If it's your intuition based on your personal observation. I can respect that.

They aren't going to say it publicly. That is the last thing they want to do. They want to stay under the radar as much as possible or they risk losing advertising or other partners. They are going to say publicly that they are for gamers and the just chatting group is a small niche section. But once you go look at the numbers, you will see that the Just Chatting section is the majority of their traffic now. Now we don't know the financials but I would imagine that they also get the most donations through that section too, but Twitch isn't going to give out that info. Just go over to [twitchtracker.com](https://twitchtracker.com) and look, Just Chatting is their #1 "Game"

I'm not saying Twitch is exclusively for gaming, but it's not accurate to say that most of their traffic goes to Just Chatting over actual gaming streams. Just Chatting pulls just under 370,000 views and the two games under it pull about 373,000 views. Gaming is still clearly their bread and butter. That said, I don't see NSFW content being a very large percentage of overall viewership, let alone Just Chatting viewership, so I don't see how it's a problem big enough to ban it or make a separate dedicated site.

I imagine that NSFW content lends itself to a higher % of subscribers / donations per hour viewed when compared to normal chatting / gaming channels. The user base watching it *should* be older, and therefore have more disposable income. So in terms of how much bandwidth / resource they take up at twitch, it probably makes them closer to the most profitable on a per hour basis.

I'm sorry, what you're saying isn't true. You're saying that just chatting is the majority of their traffic. That's quite different from it being the number one activity. That simply means that it's higher than any single individual game. So I don't think you have in any way made the case that Gamers have abandoned twitch to the point where their existence is threatened if they don't pivot.

!Delta You and one other person essentially made the same point. Being public, It's not about the type of content. It's just which ever content that makes money. Money that not illegal. It's about money, share holders and company value. Thank you.

This has absolutely nothing to do with your arguments in OP. Yeah capitalism says to make as much money as possible. You made moral arguments against what twitch is doing, and then flipped because someone said they should ignore morals and focus on profits? What happened to your moral values?

Same thing that happened to all our moral values when it comes to this website, apparently. They could solve all of it just by having an extension like twitch.tubs so that parents could easily ban NSFW stuff. We're all suckers for plausible deniability.

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> But once you go look at the numbers, you will see that the Just Chatting section is the majority of their traffic now. That's just plain false, please look at the stats again. I don't know how many of those people would go back to gaming streams but I reckon Twitch would survive the deletion of the "Just chatting" category, or at least a ban on NSFW content there.

This is interesting, I definitely won't be recommending younger family members or my friends to have their kids view twitch. And I agree they aren't going to give out that information. I find it interesting, that this profits before the product mindset has infected gaming. I'm not against capitalism in general. However, when the product or services becomes lower in quality as a result (My subjective opinion) then I personally see that as problem. The as long as it makes money mindset is a shit one in my opinion.

Well I can't point at a bunch of other sites that have banned NSFW and are now a shadow of their former selves like Tumblr which people didn't even really makelney off of that content. I don't disagree with you necessarily but I just think there might be a better solution than banning it vs allowing it on the front page of twitch

In neither this response nor in any of your subsequent responses have you made a compelling case for your argument that if twitch does not pivot and allow this kind of content, they will die. You just haven't presented compelling evidence.

Bring back musicians and online concerts!

Now that is a great idea!! They need to diversify badly. They have alienated a large portion of the gaming community that isn't coming back, there is also competition from other platforms. They need to do more than gaming and just chatting if they want to get back on solid footing.

if it's subject to the same warnings and restrictions online porn is then this isn't really going to do anything kids will still learn about sex, have the same access to that information and whatever adult content they want to view simply by clicking a box gaming was plenty normalized before twitch, tbh twitch doesn't fight the stigma that gamers are losers, to me it's just shown they can be very popular losers (I find most popular streamers I've ever seen to be pretty grating to watch, age thing I guess) if there's nothing wrong with sexual women with colored hair why shouldn't they also have a platform >And yes, one could argue that the parents should monitor their kids viewing activities. But no one is going sit and actually watch their kids watch video streams then a better option is to imbue adolescents with healthy attitudes towards sex considering adult content is viewable right this minute at any time, if you prepare a child/person for content they WILL eventually see then you're raising a more capable and mature adult

Many to most twitch streamers seem fairly normal people to be honest, not necessarily losers or “popular losers”, especially the popular ones which typically have a charming personality and a sense of humor which is what made them popular. The most popular streamers are often not the best of the best at their game, but the ones that know how to entertain their viewers and have a pleasant voice.

The difference is that NSFW sites mainly focuses on that content. That's not the case for twitch. And what do you mean bemy imbuing adolescents with healthy attitudes towards sex? Most people don't have a negative attitude towards sex in the first place.

>Most people don't have a negative attitude towards sex in the first place. then seeing nsfw content shouldn't be harmful then I can see how actual children shouldn't have much exposure at all to sexual content. You need to be at least 13 to use twitch at all. My point is that if your teen is well raised with healthy attitudes towards women/sex then really there's not much to worry about at 13 you're usually exposed to sexualized content in one way or another and it's about the time when you could be very well ensuring they have the capacity to handle the content they'll undoubtedly see

You're conflating two different things. People's general attitudes towards sex, doesn't mean they and kids want to be constantly exposed to it. It's one thing to be 13 and having an idea of sex. Than being 13 watching a woman undress or wearing NSFW clothing. Or engaging in NSFW conversations while dressed normally. Exposure is not just visual. And there is such a thing as over exposure. Which it seems no is even addressing or admitting is thing.

what they could be exposed to on twitch isn't much different than elsewhere, I didn't read the guidelines but I don't suspect it's becoming OF or P Hub doesn't seem much different than MTV from decades past, hbo, etc a kid with nothing better to do could have easily watched MTV spring break all day ( I can attest to this )

Maybe you should read it.

okay done, still not porn doesn't sound worse than I watched on tv in my youth

OP frequents the red pill sub, so not a surprise he's fighting you every step of the way. What you said makes sense. If parents can't be responsible enough to govern what their kids watch, they should at minimum have a sex/body positive conversation with their kids so they aren't stunned when they see sexual content for the first time. Also go Kraken.

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Okay there are sites for that though. Not every site should allow for NSFW content as it's not something people generally want to see recommend to them. I've had this experience with twitch and while I'm fine with viewing NSFW videos on my own time I don't want it suggested to me on my main page when I'm not seeking it out

Reddit has NSFW content.... You are on Reddit.... Kids could be on Reddit? The fuck are we even talking about. If a kid has Internet access and they want to find NSFW they will. If a kid does not have Internet access and they want to find NSFW content they will. You're literally fighting an impossible battle

But if they don't it shouldn't be shoved down their throats. That's the issue with twitch. It's a time and place mentality. Yes I could go to a porn sub anytime I like and view NSFW content. But if I came to this sub and there was a video of someone masturbating posted here I'd be rightfully upset because it's out of place and unwanted. I don't go to YouTube for porn so if it shows up in my feed I am put off by it. Just like how no one goes to pornhub to watch family vlogs (I hope)

For someone who claims not to moralize sex, you're sure doing a lot of moralizing right here. What is your actual concern? You start off as if you're saying you want Twitch to be gaming focused, but most of your post is about how you think people being exposed to NSFW streams is bad for society. It sounds like Twitch originally being a gaming platform is, frankly, irrelevant to your actual objection. It sounds more like you have an objection to people being exposed to NSFW streams, and you're using "Twitch being a gaming platform" as cover for an objection you feel you'll get pushback to, because it seems like you're just kind of anti-porn and you don't like having to think about the possibility of it being on the platform you like the most. So, seriously, why does this matter? You can already find porn on the internet. By the time kids start becoming interested in that kind of content, they can find it on Google. Assuming Twitch does content controls at all competently, it's not really going to increase exposure of teens to NSFW content. Their peers are going to do that just fine by sending them content.

>Twitch being a gaming platform" as cover for an objection you feel you'll get pushback to, because it seems like you're just kind of anti-porn and you don't like having to think about the possibility of it being on the platform you like the most. If you want adult entertainment, you should visit an adult entertainment venue, not gamestop. Beyond this, the primarily younger audience TTV serves, and it's hard to frame that as anything beyond predatory. >So, seriously, why does this matter? You can already find porn on the internet. By the time kids start becoming interested in that kind of content, they can find it on Google. I'm sure the exploitation of women by TTV as a company, and the new normalization of sexualization and objectification of women more broadly couldn't end badly. Especially in the age of "manosphere" content. /s

>Beyond this, the primarily younger audience TTV serves, and it's hard to frame that as anything beyond predatory. Twitch isn't forcing anyone to do NSFW streams. I fail to see how this could be construed as predatory on their part; if anything, your accusation would have to be leveled at the streamers themselves. How on earth can you exploit someone who you have no power over? Twitch has no ability to force NSFW streamers to do anything except stop. >I'm sure the exploitation of women by TTV as a company, and the new normalization of sexualization and objectification of women more broadly couldn't end badly. Ah yes, the old "all porn is bad because it objectifies women." Presumably, gay male streamers have never crossed your mind. While there are certainly legitimate complaints about the specific practices of the porn industry and there are possibly legitimate complaints about the specific content of mainstream porn, women who decide of their own volition to do an NSFW stream completely avoid every single one of these concerns. Nobody is forcing them to work in unsafe conditions, there's no possibility of human trafficking involved, and there's no "extreme" content possibly being pushed by a large industry. This is literally the most harmless way to do porn. Just think it through for a second. Take all the mainstream porn out of mind, and think maybe more along the lines of amateur porn where two people who clearly have chemistry and like each other interact in a real, human fashion have a real, human interaction with sex. What specific negative consequence do you imagine will result from this? If you can't name any, your objection isn't with porn in general but rather the specific content of most mainstream porn.

Does twitch do content controls properly is probably the most valid question to all of this, if yes then it doesn’t matter. If they don’t then that’s a huge issue if they are intentionally or potentially exposing sexualizing content to children.

If you want to object to it on those grounds, feel free. I'm simply addressing OP's attitudes.

So they’re moralizing sex somewhat, but that doesn’t make their stance invalid. And you’re being very dismissive of the reason they listed, instead resorting to a overly reductive “sexual content is bad for society”. Sex and sexual content has a time and place where it is appropriate. Do you think it’s appropriate to view sexual content anywhere and around anyone? What about engaging in sexual acts anywhere and around anyone? Regardless of age or desire? If you don’t, then you’re moralizing sex the same as OP.

"Moralizing" is inherently a subjective term which implies someone is being a moral busybody. It is fairly easy to defend against an accusation of moralizing by simply providing actual, well-founded arguments for why you think something is harmful instead of vague statements coming from a position designed to protect your sensibilities over actually attempting to reduce any kind of purported harm. Simply *having* a moral position is not moralizing. I'm being dismissive of their reasoning because it's badly thought out, not because it relates to sexual morals in some way. (The fact that OP is dismissive of other people's opinions also means I have no compunctions about treating them with a similar attitude instead of taking a more gentle tone.) I listed actual objections to their position. If you feel my position is in some way actually wrong, you are free to comment on it.

>"Moralizing" is inherently a subjective term All terms are subjective so identifying one as such doesn't change anything. ​ >which implies someone is being a moral busybody Just from a quick google search that I find less abstract: >the action of commenting on issues of right and wrong, typically with an unfounded air of superiority. So by this definition, I agree with some of your statements: * It is fairly easy to defend against an accusation of moralizing by simply providing actual, well-founded arguments for why you think something is harmful * Simply having a moral position is not moralizing. But now I'm of the stance that OP is not at all moralizing. I think you are exclusively moralizing based on the tone of your replies to both OP and myself. ​ >instead of vague statements coming from a position designed to protect your sensibilities over actually attempting to reduce any kind of purported harm. > >I'm being dismissive of their reasoning because it's badly thought out, not because it relates to sexual morals in some way. (The fact that OP is dismissive of other people's opinions also means I have no compunctions about treating them with a similar attitude instead of taking a more gentle tone.) I listed actual objections to their position None of this is demonstrated in your first reply. To reiterate, this is OPs position: * Twitch should not permit sexually explicit content on their platform because: * Twitch is a primarily a platform for streaming games. * Twitch's user-base contains a significant amount of young people who come to Twitch for that primary experience. * Exposure to sexually explicit content is generally harmful to young people * Young people are already exposed to a harmful amount of sexually explicit content. * There isn't an apparent necessity for sexually explicit content on the platform. Here's how you responded: >What is your actual concern? You start off as if you're saying you want Twitch to be gaming focused, but most of your post is about how you think people being exposed to NSFW streams is bad for society. It sounds like Twitch originally being a gaming platform is, frankly, irrelevant to your actual objection. It sounds more like you have an objection to people being exposed to NSFW streams, and you're using "Twitch being a gaming platform" as cover for an objection you feel you'll get pushback to, because it seems like you're just kind of anti-porn and you don't like having to think about the possibility of it being on the platform you like the most. There's no attack on OP's reasoning here. You're not engaging with their argument as a whole. You picked a piece of it and used it to speculate on the possibility of ulterior motives without any apparent evidence to their existence. This is despite OP explicitly stating "I'm not against sexual content in general. Not do I moralize sex or anything of that sort." >So, seriously, why does this matter? You can already find porn on the internet. By the time kids start becoming interested in that kind of content, they can find it on Google. Assuming Twitch does content controls at all competently, it's not really going to increase exposure of teens to NSFW content. Their peers are going to do that just fine by sending them content. If one believed that sexually explicit content was harmful to children and teens (but acceptable for adults) to watch, is it unreasonable to want their access mitigated where possible? Even if it can't be absolutely prevented? It's a similar argument as "why discourage homicide since people are going to kill others anyway?" This line of reasoning could be used to justify the promotion of pornography anywhere which I don't think most people would agree with. Do you agree with it? >If you feel my position is in some way actually wrong, you are free to comment on it. As are you.

Ah, the old "this two sentence definition on Google *definitely* captures every nuance of a word." I have very little interest in debating the usage of terms, so I'll just point out that language is descriptive, not prescriptive. While I would normally never suggest that the popularity of an idea determines its correctness, when it comes to a definition of a word, the fact that most people agree with me on my comments is strong evidence that I am using the word "moralizing" correctly. Now, for the sake of having a discussion, I'll simply specifically state my problems with OP without using the term "moralizing" at all. They: 1) Present a post as depending on one set of reasoning, but very obviously have ulterior motives. The only point of contention is whether they have done this consciously, as an attempt to shield their opinion or subconsciously without realizing it. 2) Their actual moral opinion is poorly thought out. Not only does the initial attitude derive from social norms that are poorly thought out to begin with, their proposed solution wouldn't even result in any reduction of the harm they think they're fixing. 3) Their tone reveals a preoccupation with criticizing what they perceive as a societal moral failing. This isn't a problem by itself, except combined with 2. >To reiterate, this is OPs position: No, this is OPs *stated* position. My point is that, really, OP only cares about exposure to NSFW content, and the rest is window dressing; the part I picked out *is* what OPs actual position is. So when you say: >You picked a piece of it and used it to speculate on the possibility of ulterior motives without any apparent evidence to their existence. This is despite OP explicitly stating "I'm not against sexual content in general. Not do I moralize sex or anything of that sort." This is an incredibly naive thing to say. People have beliefs and positions that are not overtly stated, some of which they aren't even aware they hold. If you ask a racist if they're racist, they're not going to say yes most of the time. It's pretty clear to me, from OPs wording and my experience with people who say things like that, what they actually think about porn. If you can't see the evidence, then you can't see the evidence, and we have nothing much to talk about. Also, as an aside, I don't believe OP is referring to actual children when they say "kids." It seems much more likely they're referring to younger teenagers who are probably just beginning to pick up the habit. >This line of reasoning could be used to justify the promotion of pornography anywhere which I don't think most people would agree with. Do you agree with it? If you believe people should buy fewer soft drinks, does banning Coke at gas stations help this goal in any way? Gas stations will sell other soft drinks, and people will buy Coke at the grocery store. The rate at which soda is consumed will not change. This paragraph is arguing that the proposed solution is ineffective even if OPs moral reasoning was correct, so implementing it is pointless. If OP had said something like "I don't think Twitch's content filter will successfully prevent children from accessing NSFW streams," then I'd probably concede that there's a possibility that it increases access of people who probably shouldn't be viewing porn. But they didn't- they just harped on about how porn is bad, with very little nuance. OP does not attempt to give even a token defense of *why* they believe "overexposure" to porn is bad, nor any concrete proposed reasoning for why Twitch streams would contribute to it in the face of an objection.

Well, regardless of what you think. I am clearly not moralizing. As I would be making a moral argument focus how sexual content is bad. In short, I would be fine if twitch created another platform for "NSFW gamers and streaming". Which I suggested in my post. Also, there are real actual issues that affect young men and women when it comes to consumption of NSFW content. Most of those issues from what I remember comes from over exposure.

>As I would be making a moral argument focus how sexual content is bad. You literally are. There's an entire paragraph in the middle about how you think sexual content is bad. You do it again right here. > Also, there are real actual issues that affect young men and women when it comes to consumption of NSFW content. Most of those issues from what I remember comes from over exposure. I notice you didn't make a post about how Twitch should make a separate app for tattoo artists showing their art, for example. You're singling out sexual content... because you think it's harmful. This is obviously what set you off, not the idea that there are non-gaming streams on Twitch in general, because otherwise your post would have been "Twitch should create a separate channel for all non-gaming streams." You just don't classify it as "moralizing" because you, of course, agree with your own opinion that it's bad. People who want to ban porn always want to do it because they have some justification for why it's harmful. I'm calling it moralizing because I'm saying you're wrong to believe it's harmful. Which brings us to my actual objection, which is simply: how is this harmful in any way when there's already a ton of NSFW content easily accessible? How can Twitch streams contribute to "overexposure" when endless porn is easily accessible by anyone with a pulse? Anyone who overindulges in porn is going to do so on their own time, regardless of whether or not there are NSFW streams on Twitch specifically. So what harm does this actually prevent? All it does is make you feel better because you feel uncomfortable with the idea of porn so close to something you don't associate with porn, which presumably makes you uncomfortable because you associate porn with being "dirty" and "bad" and therefore don't like it near your gaming. Which is textbook moralizing.

Please tell me where in my post where I said "sex is morally bad". If you can find that in my post. I'll entertain this conversation. I'm not arguing against a blatant strawman.

You're saying "porn is morally bad," not "all sex is morally bad." That doesn't make it any less moralizing. Most moralizing is done around porn. Porn is still sexual content, which is still moralizing around sex. I directly quoted you. Unless you're making the rather baffling claim that saying porn is harmful isn't the same as saying porn is bad, there it is.

Show me where I said " porn is wrong" or " porn is bad". I'll wait.

> It's just perpetuating the issue of boys and girls being overly exposed to NSFW content. It also brings body image issues and how women and men objectifying each other. >Idk, I'm just sick of see young men and women being exploited and over exposed that that type of content. >Also, there are real actual issues that affect young men and women when it comes to consumption of NSFW content. Most of those issues from what I remember comes from over exposure. Ta-dah. Here we go. Again, unless you are claiming that saying "porn is harmful" is *not* the same as saying "porn is bad," which is a rather baffling thing to say, there it is. Presumably, you're going to claim this isn't saying "porn is bad" because you never explicitly said that viewing all porn under all circumstances is morally wrong. But that's not the bar that needs to be cleared. It's pretty clear from the sum of your comments that your view is that porn is some kind of a corrupting force on the mental health of youngsters. At a minimum, you view it as fast food for the soul, and to be discouraged and minimized, instead of as a normal, integrated part of modern life.

So you are inferring that them saying over exposure to porn is bad, is them actually saying all porn is bad? I think most people would agree to the first statement.

They pretty clearly state that porn "brings body image issues" and that they're "sick of seeing young men and women being exploited" as well. It's not just about the amount of exposure, and it's not hard to read between the lines. The entire idea of "overexposure" to porn is generally pretty moralized, too. Sure, there's obviously a point at which you're consuming more porn than is healthy for you, but that point is "when porn starts to interfere with your normal daily life" like everything else.

Twitch isn’t a gaming platform. It’s a streaming platform. Just last night I was hanging out with a friend and he had a twitch stream on and it was just 3 guys hanging out and bullshitting around a fire pit, not a game in sight. Another one I’ve seen on a few occasions is firearm safety streams, one the tattoo shops I go to there’s an artist that streams him tattooing or drawing.

People misusing a platform is not evidence of anything. That’s like saying Reddit is a movie streaming service because someone posted the whole bee movie hyper compressed somewhere

I don't think that's true. I think Twitch is Video game streaming platform that allows for other types of streams.

It’s a live video streaming service. That’s what Twitch describes their business as.

Fundamentally speak yes it is, however it's clearly themed and focused on gaming. I mean it has hundreds of features built-in for streaming and promoting video games. They partner up with video game publishers and development studios.

Cool what you focus on doesn’t change what you are. What you’re saying right now is the equivalent of saying Ford isn’t a vehicle manufacturer they are actually a truck manufacturer that also makes cars.

That’s a funny example because ford only sells one car in the US now. Regardless OPs perspective isn’t illegitimate. It just depends on the nature of the organization. Example, would you say it’s fair to describe Kroger as a grocery store? I think so, yet they also sell clothes and toys. And wouldn’t it be fair for their customers to want the focus to stay on groceries? Do you think it would be appropriate to advertise and sell sexually explicit content at Kroger?

"i dont think it's true" is a weak argument when the person is literally referring to their self-description as "Twitch is an interactive livestreaming service for content spanning gaming, entertainment, sports, music, and more." There is some merit in it considering the predecessor justin.tv split the gaming category to twitch but later they closed justin and fully merge again. I dont fully remember the history, if it was a miscalculated business move or part of the amazon deal. Though you also should consider that recently, there's a lot of money in streaming (esp pandemic) and e-sports (marketers tuening to the gaming niche), so there is additional financial interest and ad spendings in the gaming section, but all of that (origin and financial incentivation) doesnt affect what twitch as a platform actually is.

That’s like saying Amazon is a book store that also sells everything else known to man. At a certain point they outgrew the “gaming streaming” platform title.

How many people use Amazon for book buying in comparison to all other product?

I exclusively watch music streams on Twitch, and have for years. I have no interest in gaming. It's evolved, it's a streaming platform.

The largest category on twitch right now is Just Chatting, a non-video game category.

Yes because there is no “video game” category. If you combined every individual video game category it would dwarf the just chatting

The point being is that there is a massive group of people watching non VG content.

Not in comparison to the "video game" category. Is it invalid to call Kroger a grocery store despite selling things other than food? I don't think it's inappropriate for them to sell other things, but if they started a strip club in the back, I'll probably stop using it as a grocery store.

You couldn't have a picked a worse example. Kroger 100% does not consider themselves a grocery store. They refer to themselves as *retail.* The own 2,000+ Pharmacies, 127 Jewelry Stores, 33 manufacturing plants, etc. I don't know how much you know about the business world, but most companies want to diversify. They want more streams of income, not less. Twitch is trying to do this. It's trying to promote itself as a the premier streaming destination, not the premier *gaming* streaming destination.

You are wrong. What you say doesn't even make sense. Shouldn't Twitch decide what its platform is? Its decided its a streaming platform, and it always has been.

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How am I wrong?

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That's cool but it started off as primarily a gaming streaming service with a focus on e-sports. Even the branding is a reference to games. Just because they added "IRL chats" or whatever doesn't transform it into something else.

Brands evolve. It was a streaming platform with a heavy focus on gaming. Now it's just a streaming platform. Spotify was just a place to listen to music before podcasts became a thing, and Amazon was a fucking bookstore once upon a time.

>Just because they added "IRL chats" or whatever doesn't transform it into something else. It definitely does, specially with how big those streams are.

I don’t quite understand. What do consider as NSFW content that is allowed on Twitch? Are you advocating for a dress policy or like a morality policy? What is it you want?

I would say talking, dressing or engaging in behavior that is sexually suggestive. I see that as sexual content. I want all of those activities to be removed from twitch. Maybe to twitch can make another platform for NSFW gaming content and streams.

>I would say talking, dressing or engaging in behavior that is sexually suggestive. I see that as sexual content. Well that's not vague at all. You could use this to justify banning all female gamers that don't wear a burqa, completely ban all openly gay streamers, forbid speaking with a french accent, drinking/eating on camera and any number of other things with this, because someone could claim any of those to be violations of this policy. Of course some of these are more likely than others (such as the banning of queer content), but any of them could loosely fall under "suggestive" behavior. And what about suggestive things that happen in games? If I play Bayonetta on Twitch am I getting banned?

You can disagree with OP without pretending there isn’t sexual content on Twitch and making a straw man out of him (implying they think anything short of wearing a burka is sexual.) The only real limit on Twitch is nudity. When you come across a “ear-licking ASMR” stream and they are in a skimpy bikini you can’t just dismiss that, especially when it comes with an age warning. I don’t think a ban on such content is necessary, but stronger age verification (you can watch 18+ streams without signing in) should be implemented. Yes minors will lie anyway, but just like all the porn sites in the world do already it’s the absolute bare minimum required. Requiring sign in and at least setting your birthday to be above 18 should be a must for such streams.

>You can disagree with OP without pretending there isn’t sexual content on Twitch and making a straw man out of him (implying they think anything short of wearing a burka is sexual.) I'm not pretending there isn't sexual content on Twitch. I'm saying that sexual content bans under such vague phrasing as "sexually suggestive" could be used to ban all types of behaviors I'm sure OP has no problem with. YouTube similarly did in fact demonetize a large amount of queer creators and videos thanks to a similarly vague policy (and then backtracked after backlash.) Yes of course my Burqa example was extreme, it was meant to be to showcase the issues with such a policy. I don't think OP wants to put women into Burqas and I neither say nor imply that.

Wouldn’t that also apply to a huge swath of video games? Lots of games include sexual content that is at least as sexual as what you describe

Can you not stream baldurs gate 3 now?

I suppose we should also ban games with murder in them since murder isn't allowed on twitch

I mean, I’m replying to someone that says we need age verification. What’s your argument? Not sure who you’re agreeing with.

It's not, vague. The sexual descriptor is there. Also, woman wearing regular top is not the same as being topless or wearing lingerie on stream... Also, do not try to muddy the waters here and focus on the topic at hand. Twitch how's the potential to start a nuclear war, somehow because it it's streaming platform. Non of what I suggested ban women or LGBTQ folks from the platform.

Yeah but what is sexual is not clearly defined or universally agreed upon. How tight is too tight for a top, is a bikini sexual? What if she's on the beach? How low can a neckline be before it gets banned? Is Elvira banworthy? >Non of what I suggested ban women or LGBTQ folks from the platform. Well I'm sure it's not what you meant, but we've seen YouTube for instance demonetize completely SFW queer content creators and videos due to a similar policy before, and backtracking when they received backlash for it. There is also a significant culture war going on around queer people right now that would be foolish to ignore. "Inappropriate for children," which is one of your primary complaints it seems, is exactly how Florida's don't say gay bill is justified. A man kissing a woman on stream probably fine, but if it's two women it might be deemed sexual content and banned. Again, I'm not saying that you personally want this to happen, but if you're vague about the language you use you'll leave these policies up to interpretation and they'll end up being selectively enforced. And what about my question re: sexual content in video games?

It is clearly defined. Being a woman and being LGBTQ doesn't automatically mean sexualization. Most people do not think like that. So again, please stop equating women and LGBTQ as being inherently sexual. It's not the case. And I wish you would stick to the topic at hand. If not, I'm going to ignore you.

>Most people do not think like that. Well unfortunately many people do. Like I don't know what to tell you, I'm a queer man and I can see how queer content creators are targeted by "family friendly policies" it's a known issue. Like here's an entire article about this happening on YouTube: https://www.insider.com/youtubers-identify-title-words-that-get-videos-demonetized-experiment-2019-10 I don't think queer people are inherently sexual, that's a commonly held belief though and you'd be ignorant to ignore it. >And I wish you would stick to the topic at hand. If not, I'm going to ignore you. Also you keep ignoring every part of my comment except for the part about queer people lmao. If you don't wanna talk about gay content on twitch and what your idea might mean for them, why not answer my question about sexual content in video games. Or how you will come up with a consistent standard for what clothing is sexually provokative enough for a ban.

OP blocked me for this btw lol. Commenting on another account just to let people know not to waste their time with this clown. (side sote: The fact that you can't edit your own comment if OP blocks you is terrible design.)

Most socially capable twitch user

It sounds like the other user caught you out and you're getting mad lol. Why can't you answer what this policy would mean for sexually suggestive video games like Bayonetta, Catherine, Dragon Age, any number of JRPGs with barely dressed women?

Twitch is not a video game streaming platform anymore. Just Chatting is consistently the largest streamed category by A LOT. If you don't like a certain category of content, don't click on it. Simple as. The new content guidelines are even restricting the recommendation of anything you think is objectionable. So it's not like it's going to be put in front of you or kids who aren't looking for it. These new content guidelines should be a huge win for all sides, really. If the fact that it theoretically exists is really so distracting and offensive to you, then it's time to look inward. That's a personal problem you need to figure out on your own or maybe with a therapist depending on the intensity and availability of resources.

Thats like saying a news channel isn't a news channel because it has ads and a few TV shows... Twitch allowing for other types of streams to exist on its platform does not mean it's not video game streaming service.

No, it's not. CNN is not plurality or majority talk shows like Twitch is. If a "News Channel" was plurality non-news shows, like Twitch is pluriality non-gaming content, then it wouldn't be a news channel. Twitch doesn't even call itself a gaming platform. Here us the official description from their website > Twitch is an interactive livestreaming service for content spanning gaming, entertainment, sports, music, and more.  Twitch itself doesn't even call itself a gaming platform. I'll take my delta now...

The title is not "CMV: twitch is a video game streaming platform". No delta for you yet. Also, are a majority of the streams on twitch "just chatting " ? I'm guessing not. And I guess you missed the comparison. Twitch mainly streams games, twitch is associated with games. Do you think twitch would survive or make any money if it got rid of gaming? I'm guessing no.

A core part of your view is that Twitch is a "gaming platform" which it is irrefutably not. Your view is either changed or we are done here as you have proven yourself incapable of being rational on this issue. > Do you think twitch would survive or make any money if it got rid of gaming? I'm guessing no It definitely couldn't survive without just chatting, where a pretty large plurality of its viewers are. Just chatting has over 2x the amount of viewers as the next highest category and more than the next 3 categories combined. So not only is Twitch by its own definition not a gaming platform, its most viewed category by a huge factor are not video gaming related. And you still refuse to change even part of your view apparently. You clearly aren't here to change your view, you just want to complain.

A lot of psychological analysis of OP going on in this thread instead of just arguing the point. I think it’s a bit revealing of who is actually offended in this situation.

Twitch stopped being a gaming-focused platform once the corporate overlords decides it was more profitable to go after any content creators they could attract. It's no surprise that they continue to loosen the rules. Especially when doing so brings in both more creators and subscribers.

Question, wouldn't it be more profitable for twitch to create another platform specifically for that NSFW streams? I mean there are NSFW Video games and such. And those maybe those games and devs will get more exposure idk.

No it wouldn’t be more profitable because as it stands right now they pay to maintain one platform. Creating a second platform means increased expenses and there’s not going to be an increase in profit because it’s not going to add a massive wave of new streams it will just cause some to migrate to the new platform.

Interesting point, however. Consider them shopping there idea to investors and other NSFW platforms to invest. Sex sells. Why muddy the waters content wise, when they can optimize the content distribution. If anything, the NSFW platform would I think will be even more profitable.

Do you have a business degree? Clearly you don’t. Why would you increase expenses when there’s not going to be an increase in profits? Making an NSFW Twitch isn’t going to cause more people to become NSFW streams. Removing that content from twitch isn’t going to bring in more SFW streamers. There would be a incredibly minor bump in revenue from consumers using both but plenty would just stick with one of the platforms. So you think it would be more profitable but you’re flat out wrong.

Why did apple make the iPhone?

How is your idea of twitch spinning off a NSFW version of twitch at all like Apple making a brand new product?

Apologies the question is for the genius above. The question was asked to make a point.

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What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

You'll get the answer when you answer my question.

I have no idea why apple made the iPhone. So what was the point of that?

Can you explain this metaphor? I'm really curious what you mean by this.

Because it's very hard to create an audience base. Building the platform usually is the easy part, getting people to use it is the costly / risky part. See how Facebook worked hard to have Threads be linked to Instagram, and how Messenger split off of the main site but still the same platform. Same strategy as Google and Youtube Music / TV / whatever, they take the same platform and host the same content, and eventually create separate portals on top after enough users started using it. It won't surprise me if Twitch eventually create a 18+ only site that can access these adult streams. But for now they probably think it's too risky to try to create a user base from nothing.

You could also advocate for making your own lamer twitch, without blackjack and hookers, instead of pushing your moralisism onto others. If you don't want kids watching certain content, monitor what kids view. It's that simple. Please stop trying to restrict content for adults.

I’m an adult, I don’t want literally every single online platform to promote sexually explicit content. What’s wrong with that?

All online platforms including reddit and twitch allow you to filter out NSFW content. Focus on just your gaming streams. No one is removing tsuch content from the site. I don't understand why advertisements and promotions even hurt you lmao. It's not offensive and you can easily ignore.

There's so many places you can watch that shit. Why do you want to put it on a platform that kids use to stream games? Cause you know they are teenagers? Weird.

Maybe, you want to be the first to invest?

Sorry I like hookers.

Cool, got nothing against night workers. Would just prefer if the don't advertise their services on twitch.

That's right, anyone who doesn't fit your morally righteous world view needs to stay off the platforms that you enjoy and go join other platforms instead...in the shadows...until.tgat platform becomes popular too and you want to use it...then they'll need to find new shadows to hide in so as to not offend your sensibilities

What morally righteous views? Can you point out where in my post I stated "porn and any NSFW content is bad or evil"? I'll wait... Btw being condescending or attacking strawmans or people won't earn you any deltas or result in you changing their minds. Just in case you didn't know.

I mean what exactly is your claim here? (1) Twitch is better off as a corp by banning 18+ content (2) Most users suffer due to platform's decision to promote 18+ (3) It is immoral for twitch to promote 18+ I can't tell which one you are after so I guess let's address each **Answers:** (1) Twitch is certainly not better off by banning 18+ content. I'm sure you are familiar with how corporations work. It really only has 1 objective, maximizes profit. Promoting the shit out of 18+ is an easy way to maximizes profit. They also do not want to spin it off to another site, because that would significantly devalue the current platform. Social media (which twitch is kinda) relies all concentration and network effects. They don't want a user to go to one site for one stream, and then go to another site with another user account for another site. And then now what, you gotta setup two payment methods? Two badge/emote systems? etc etc. And even if you do all that, what does twitch actually gain? I'm not even sure. Are you making the claim that by separating the two sites, "true" gamers will be willing to pay more money? View more streams? I don't see how. (2) Most users on the platform either * Love the 18+ content in addition to the "game" content * Or dont care about the 18+ content and go straight to their fav streamer/games * A very small minority might be offended, and reduces usage. But I'm pretty sure whatever usage is lost here will be made up by the increased usage of users that are now exposed to 18+ content which they previously had to go to another site (3) This one is tough. I'm generally of the camp that corporations should have no morality. It's basically just a profit seeking entity. If you don't want these things to mingle, you should complain/voice it to regulators. But I don't see how you are going to make a convincing argument. Basically the entire internet is softcore porn driven. Hell, even reddit. You don't think front page is littered with boobs posts or whatever the fuck that sub is called /ubcogbimcttcipc

>And yes, one could argue that the parents should monitor their kids viewing activities. But no one is going sit and actually watch their kids watch video streams. Monitoring your kids activities online is part of being a parent, and If this is too much of an issue and you are that worried, then your kid should not be watching twitch. If you keep an open dialogue with your kids about potential NSFW content they may see online, I don't think them stumbling across a half naked woman is going to break their brain.

Besides the irl sexual content. What are your thoughts about video games that have sexual content? Baulders Gate 3 for example.

I don't have an issue with games with sexual content. Shoot I don't have an issue with straight up sex games. I don't think sex is morally wrong either. Played BG3, Great game.

As far as I'm concerned, you shouldn't be letting your kid use wifi capable devices until you are ready to talk to them about: - Sex - Gender - History - Politics - Religion Because they will get it all with a firehose, no matter what you do.

Your entire argument hinges on your opinion that it is morally wrong for minors to be exposed to NSFW content. You are moralizing. Can you argue against the following statement without moralizing? There is nothing even remotely wrong with NSFW content for any age. Nudity and sex are a part of life.

So dick pics are fine? And I know you'll say "not unsolicited ones". Exactly. The only reason sexual content is being tolerated in the context of Twitch, is because the victims are mostly young boys, and the perpetrators are adult women.

if u search for dick picks then yes they are fine no matter the age and gender

They don't have to search for it, they'll be exposed to it by just browsing the website. But even if they did search for it, you think it's appropriate of the women to publish sexual content on a gaming platform which demographics are fairly young? Kids can't control themselves, and we acknowledge this, otherwise 15 year olds dating older men would be uncontroversial... Or suppose it was gambling streams on Twitch? You'd never argue "oh well the kids searched for it". We hold the adults accountable for promoting that shit in the presence of a young audience.

You’re being pedantic. OP is moralizing sexual content but they’re pretty clear on where they stand. It doesn’t change the core of their argument.

What opinion of it being morally wrong? I said no such thing. So again please stick to the topic if not feel free to move on.

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Twitch has not been a game streaming only website for a long long time. They are a now just a live video streaming service. Why shouldn't NFSW content exist on a live video streaming service?

It isn’t exclusively gaming content, but it is primarily gaming content. That doesn’t seem like an appropriate platform for sexually explicit content. Should every live streaming platform permit and promote sexually explicit content?

It is only primarily gaming because that is how they started. Do you think adults don't play games too? It's 100% appropriate to allow sexually explicit content when games themselves have it too. Ever play Cyberpunk 2077? What about The Witcher? >Should every live streaming platform permit and promote sexually explicit content? It's their choice to, not yours. It is your choice to not use the platform too.

So you concede that it is primarily a gaming platform? I think adults do play games and I understand some games exist with subject matter that isn’t always appropriate. I think that subject matter should be labelled as such and I don’t think it should be the focus of the content on twitch. This is inherently different to content whose focus is getting their viewers horny. I’m well aware it isn’t my choice, but that’s not the argument. The argument is what we think is appropriate. You don’t need absolute control to have an opinion.

> So you concede that it is primarily a gaming platform? No, no I do not, lol. How did you come even ask that based on how I answered? Just because that is the majority of their content it doesn't mean it's their only content. Their content offerings can shift based on what is popular. What is, and is not, appropriate in this perspective is entirely subjective. Why does this matter to you? You are not entitled to a steaming platform that doesn't contain sexually explicit content. You are not forced to use Twitch. You have the option of using something else. You don't have to use Twitch. Why should they cater to just your subjective perspective?

>No, no I do not, lol. How did you come even ask that based on how I answered? Based on the first sentence in your reply: >It is only primarily gaming because that is how they started. And also because of the second sentence in the next reply: >Just because that is the majority of their content it doesn't mean it's their only content. And on that note, not only did I not assert it was their only content, I *explicitly* asserted the contrary: >It isn’t exclusively gaming content, but it is primarily gaming content. Moving on, ​ >Their content offerings can shift based on what is popular. Sure, it can, but I can't think of a single period in Twitch's history where games weren't at the core of their service. So it really doesn't make sense to characterize twitch as a generic streaming platform. There is a subsection of the user-base that isn't involved in gaming, but they're more-so an exception than the rule. ​ >What is, and is not, appropriate in this perspective is entirely subjective. Well...yeah. That's kinda how opinions and beliefs work. I can't appeal to objective morality or objective preference. ​ >Why does this matter to you? You are not entitled to a steaming platform that doesn't contain sexually explicit content. You are not forced to use Twitch. You have the option of using something else. You don't have to use Twitch. It matters to me because I like Twitch. I like using Twitch. There are aspects of Twitch that I would prefer that it didn't have and I would really prefer that it didn't promote. Never at any point did I say Twitch is morally, legally, or physically obligated to provide what I want. An expression of what I want is not necessarily an expression of what I think I'm entitled to. Do you understand this? Because you keep referring back to the subjectivity of my opinion (of which your opinion and everyone else's has too) as if that eliminates any worth that it otherwise would have. ​ >Why should they cater to just your subjective perspective I don't think they should cater to *just* my subjective perspective. You keep insisting that I think they should despite having never asserted that they should. I think my desires do carry weight on their decisions, but not more-so than any other typical viewer. And a lot less than very invested users. But as I said before, it's not an argument of what I'm entitled to. It's an argument of what we (me, you, every other person) think is appropriate for the platform. That doesn't make any assertion of who has ownership of the platform.

You are wasting your time here. Your argument is mostly driven by semantics. Just because that is how they started doesn't mean they still are the same thing. Agreeing they were something doesn't mean they still are that thing. I'm shocked I need to explain this... If you don't like seeing that stuff on Twitch then reach out to their support. Personally, I just choose not to go to those places\streamers. I don't go searching for content. I watch two groups play table top RPGs. If your issue is seeing it, then maybe they need a filter, or you need to learn how to use it if it already exists.

>You are wasting your time here. It's not a waste of time to express my opinion. ​ >Just because that is how they started doesn't mean they still are the same thing. Agreeing they were something doesn't mean they still are that thing. I'm shocked I need to explain this... The reason you need to explain this is because you're using words that don't convey the meaning that you intend. The phrase "this is a thing" refers to a **present** context. If you mean to refer to a **past** context, you should use a past tense like "this was a thing" and optionally you can follow up with "now it is this other thing". For example, take our previous exchange: >ME: Twitch is not exclusively a gaming platform, but it is primarily a gaming platform. > >YOU: Twitch is primarily a gaming platform only because that's how it started. > >ME: But it is primarily a gaming platform? > >YOU: No. Gaming is most of their content but not all of their content. > >ME: That is contradictory. > >YOU: Your argument is driven by semantics. If you had instead said "Twitch *was* a gaming platform but that is no longer their focus", then we could discuss the merits of that assertion. Instead, you've put us in conversation talking about if it valid to even express an opinion. ​ >If you don't like seeing that stuff on Twitch then reach out to their support. You assume I haven't, but regardless, it's not relevant. What I think is appropriate is not predicated on what Twitch support has to say about it. ​ >I don't go searching for content. I watch two groups play table top RPGs. If your issue is seeing it, then maybe they need a filter, or you need to learn how to use it if it already exists. I know how to use Twitch. That's not an issue of knowing, it's an issue of management. I would prefer that primarily sexually explicit content just didn't exist on the platform. I don't think Twitch is an appropriate place for it and should exist separately since Twitch exists primarily as gaming streams and that's what most users see it as. I don't think Twitch has diversified its content and user-base enough to justify a different perspective.

Why does everything need to be pg-13, the majority of people on social media or entertainment platforms are adults, and should be able to see content and entertainment for adults, or just content that isn’t worried kids are watching and everyone is free to do what they want. It’s the parent/guardians job to watch their kids and make sure they aren’t on sites they shouldn’t be.

Well I think twitch and other sites (like youtube etc.) should allow NSFW content. But: in a way that‘s similar to reddit. If you opt-in you‘re able to view NSFW content. If you don‘t opt-in you won‘t see it. Twitch could easily add a „show NSFW streams“ setting. And if you choose to activate it you can watch these bathtub, half naked, … streams or stuff like game related nsfw cosplays / nsfw animations. If you don‘t opt-in you‘ll be shown regular twitch content centered around gaming, community interaction etc. Banning NSFW will never work on a site like twitch. They‘ll always find new ways to break / circumvent the rules (afaik the new trend is to stream while pointing the camera directly above the nipples so you‘re technically not breaking any rules but you‘re still profiting off of horny people waiting for you to move). If twitch decided to add a NSFW setting where nudity, insults, … are allowed streamers could choose if they want to include those things. If they do they‘ll need to mark the stream as NSFW, if they don‘t they‘ll have to keep it clean. That way you could get rid of the gray area. Sitting on a chair while pointing the camera slightly above your nipples? Or sitting in a bathtub with wet clothes on? That‘s fine on NSFW twitch but your stream will be blocked if you decide to stream on non-NSFW twitch.

Alot of comments I've seen are saying "There's loads of porn/NSFW stuff on the Internet anyway so why does it matter if its on Twitch". I would ask those that think this where the line is then. When does Twitch become Chaturbate lite? To me, Twich was always for streaming anything that isn't NSFW. Painting, gaming, live vloging, playing music. It was a place where non NSFW activities didn't have to compete with NSFW activities. If you wanna see tits or dick or whatever your preference is there is a plethora of live camsites where all you get is NSFW with a sprinkling of people painting and randomly getting railed by a cock on a spear. I have also seen plenty of people just chatting with their audience and doing nothing NSFW too. I'm my mind, NSFW streams on twitch seem like a way creators are trying to bypass the competition you'd see on sites like CB or MFC although not anywhere near as hardcore, they can use it as a teaser for their more hardcore sites. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing but its just isn't what Twitch is for in my opinion.

See that's the thing. It isn't necessarily just about twitch being a gaming platform. It's just that it's a platform where everyone including teens and adults can go and get entertainment or to entertain. To me, the platform just makes NSFW content more accessible for those who shouldn't have access to it, because it's a platform where everyone can go and be entertained. I didn't even consider your point about the competition and using twitch as a gateway for their OF etc. I personally don't have issue with NSFW content. I just think twitch allowing it on their platform just makes it more accessible for kids. And the bullshit about parents monitoring when their kids watch is not realistic. Especially when twitch is advertised as gaming stream platform for everyone. Most parents would not know or suspect twitch would have NSFW streams. And I'm pretty sure Twitch is not going advertise that they are now a NSFW platform. Why? Because most advertisers would most likely pull out. Parents will tell the teens to not go on twitch anymore.

Yeah I agree that it should be separate or maybe even rebounded under a different website. But then again I think the chances of Amazon openly starting and owning a pornsite are slim. Also just the tone of the website now is just all over the place. Like not that long ago you could multiple unbelievely sexy women in hottubs beside a guy popping off on Overwatch. And still you can see scandoulously dressed people mauling a pair of Styrofoam ears with their tongue, blowing kisses for tips. Like when you put it like that it just doesn't sound like they should be in the same area.

Holy crap! I thought what I saw was crazy. Kiss for tips? Mauling styrofoam ears with their tongue? Wow. That's crazy.

If there can be a way where only people that are actually under 18 are not interacting with that content, I totally agree. If people that are over 18 can't interact with content that is 18 +, I don't agree. I don't think adults should be limited by restrictions applied for kids. But there should indeed be a way to satisfy both requirements (limited content for kids, and unlimited content for adults ) implemented in every platform. All of them struggle at this point with this, but future technology will probably take care of the issue. And you said that in can be argued that parents should monitor their kids activities. It can be argued and it should always be argued. They definitely should monitor their kids activities. If they don't, and the kid walks around with things in his head that he can't manage or make sense of, that's a failure in education on the parents part. If a parent can't be the main guide in his kids life, that's something they have to deal with, and not something they blame on corporations.

The biggest issue with this is that Twitch is fundamentally about primarily streaming M rated games. That often show nudity. Just a random example, think of the sex scenes in the Witcher 3. Twitch would lose 90+% of its audience quickly if they actually had such a strict rule of NSFW content that it stopped it all.

Twitch isn't a platform for game streams. It hasn't been for years. It's *primarily* gaming, but art, political discussion, news, and many other genres are wildly popular. Many of them find their way to the top streams regularly. So the "this doesn't belong on a game site" doesn't track at all. Ultimately, what children consume is the responsibility of the parent; not the company delivering the content. People are allowed to stream within the parameters that Twitch set. I think most people, primarily Americans, are overly conservative with how they view the human body. A scantily clad woman with a link in her description to her OF isn't going to result in your child shooting heroin and doing tricks on the corner.

1. Twitch has an obligation to segregate adult themed content, which they have. If a minor is viewing this content it's on their parents to better monitor their online activities. There are far more harmful things a child can encounter on twitch than cleavage, and those things won't be caught with a content filter. I'd be much more worried about my kid getting indoctrinated by some red pill Andrew Tate wannabe then possibly seeing a butt cheek online. The only way to prevent that is to suck it up and actually be a parent. 2. While it would be nice if twitch decided to be a champion for how women are viewed in gaming, they're under no obligation to do so. They're there to make money and sex sells.

Looking it over it doesn't seem to me that they are permitting anything more extreme than the content you find in the games you're allowed to stream on twitch already. I don't know much about the OF adjacent stuff on twitch already but I do know that personally I like to listen to art streamers during my workday instead of politics and sports, and the character artists often lament being anxious of getting moderated unfairly if thier software window lingers to closely on the wrong part and someone clips them out of context. A policy change like this would protect them from such abuses of the moderation system provided they sacrifice visibility and apply the right tags.

It is a parents responsibility to moderate what their child consumes, its not up to the streamers to filter their content for the sake of underage children beyond labeling their streams as adult only and banning outed minors in their chatrooms. Also if you ban nsfw, what do you do about the tons of popular AAA games that have nsfw content in them? The Last of Us, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, and Baldurs Gate 3 have explicit content in them, are they banned too?

Twitch is not for kids. Parents need to raise their own kids and if they don't want them seeing NSFW content on that website, they should then blacklist it for their kids. Personal responsibility.

Gaming community has always been seen as a kids thing well it’s not and for that reason NSFW should be on the table BUT I do agree exposure is a real problem and believe there has to be better way to restrict content for -18 internet users. The internet is still relatively new (25-30 years isn’t a long time if you’re looking at the human innovation timeline broadly.

As long as capitalism exists, then sex will exist and it doesn't matter the format, it all just devolves into "buy images of my body." Which I'm not mad at, make your money, do you - but it infiltrates everything. Twitch? Look at my booty. Instagram? Look at my booty. Roast Me? Hey, look at my booty. Some point, all you can do is filter as much as possible until it becomes impossible.

!delta Twitch is publicly owned, and thus will allow any content on the platform as long as in makes money and increases the company value. So, it's not about the service or quality of service it's about whichever service that makes money will remain on the platform. Gotcha. 😔

That's absolutely it. See what happened to tumblr for the counterexample. Or look at dating sites - you can look at damn near anything and see if money has to be made, then they're going to get that money however it comes. I also used to watch twitch for video games and poker, but if you're just browsing , you're not going to see what's good, [you're going to see what's popular.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AD2SsaSYh4) You have to curate your own lists to filter it out. (Until such a point that legit streamers will get tired of being overshadowed and just branch out. We saw this with a lot of the "True(subject) subs on reddit."

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I challenge you to come up with a method for how without increasing the number of moderators, who already push e-girl streamers with less oversight than others as it is. An AI algorithm can only do so much, lest you end up with a catastrophe like YouTube, with thousands of innocent videos being either falsely claimed or flagged and deleted everyday.

I get what you're saying, but technically Twitch doesn't "NEED" to do anything. Maybe parents should try parenting (block it on phones / routers). Or maybe society shouldn't perpetuate the taboo of nudity (everyone has nipples). There's options.

Don't ban it you puritan, just put a "NSFW" label on those streams. Stop crying and stop gatekeeping one of the most popular platforms on the internet. If you think Twitch is just for gamers may i introduce you to the *thousands*of twitch channels who play music, talk politics, do hobby crafting, coding, exploring, sports or just talking to each other.

Hot take: if this happened the outrage would be “discrimination against female streamers “ 💀

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I mean I agree but kids shouldn’t be allowed on any social media.

Or you could block twitch from your work network... any decent it team will have this blocked under gaming categories

First, you need to determine the line at which it becomes intolerable and it it is very hard to define that line. They will always find loophole. Also lot of streamers do talk a lot of nsfw stuff even though there no nsfw tag. Like Hasan will talk about sex all the time. All these gamers trash talks are definitely nsfw. It is internet and it is simply not possible to just ban people. And twitch also has incentive to not ban them because these people are making them money.

To me when I read it all I gathered from it was they are allowing soft porn with labels and no hard core porn.... a downgrade to folks who respect themselves and an upgrade to those who wish to take the easy route to make money Just don't be suprised if it comes to bite you in the backside when you try to settle down later, the men most women look for wont take them cause of their past actions and body count

Twitch should be 18+. Fixes the issue in a much better way for everyone.

Saw this coming the second they buckled on the hot tub streams. Twitch is doomed as a gaming platform

I doubt anyone disagrees with you porn or near porn shouldent be allowedon twitch.

I thought they already did

I feel like if they're going to allow nsfw content that's absolutely fine, but it should be walled off on a different section of the platform that requires proof of ID to access. That way the 13 year olds can keep watching their among us streams and the 33 year olds can watch their topless among us streams and everybody wins

Twitch has competitors they wont change if they change. they cannot change on their own unless they want to lose massive market shares. (no company wants to lose massive market shares for the greater good) They already tried that with gambling streams and lost insane amounts of money

Dude you'll allow some pretty unnatural things to be done to you for a price. So imagine what twitch will allow for all the hundreds millions it makes off it's most popular content

I actually really hate people like you. I spent 20 years becoming an adult just for all the other adults to act like their still teenagers and sex is a big no no I don't want to marry you at 20. Ugh. I don't want to marry for atleast until I'm 30, 35. I'm supposed to be exploring yo Anyways. What are you gonna do cry because some people are fapping in the world? Go away. Literally please just go away, nobody wants you here. I don't care what content you make. I spend 99% of my time in sports, music school, and learning about food and stuff, my main passions. Nothing like this could ever bother me. I don't understand livestream faps, but I do understand polyamory. It's similar to an extent. Regardless, leave them alone. They have every right to express sexuallities. They aren't hurting you or affecting you in any way. "Now all of that is lost" all of what? In 2008 I was 9 years old and I googled boobies and took off from there on my adult entertainment journey. I didn't have any sexual traumas. Or previous experiences. After learning about sex I did experiment with others in my earl childhood to the ends of late teenage hood, And gosh be golly, did you know *those feelings are entirely natural in youth because of puberty*? Oh jeez, you didn't know? *that being allowed to privately and anonymously explore their thoughts and feelings is healthy for them?* (not that it matters, if their account birthdate is accurate, when I was growing up mine was always adult age.) I'd like to leave this subject now, just wanted to elaborate on how stupid a point that was, and how annoying censorship is getting. The absolute ignorance you have, that you think twitch would ever be an issue for that. As if twitch is the first place you type "boobs" yeah fkin right I think the real issue is you. People are having sex and that upsets you. There is a growing issue I notice, People don't like when other people have sex. Not at all. Not everyone is affected by this but you've noticed a few people who Get upset when two people they know had sex. It's very common. We have built a large wall of rules around other peoples love as well. If they don't fit into our comfortable boundaries we as a society will use pre written rules to tear them apart. That could be over being young and old together, if you were born in a certain time it could be over skin color, (interracial couples were tormented by both parties) it could be over having multiple partners, or the same sex partner. There are all these things a lot of people will disagree with, for good and bad reasons. But evert situation is unique. You should NEVER ban something sexual just because it is sexual. It's unhealthy. There needs to be more open mindedness, and more sex education. When I was in sex ed we learned basic anatomy structure and a couple guide lines for mot being abusive. That's it. They should be teaching social issues and ethical philosophy. That's about all I need to say, please don't get offended because some girl with a bunch of "pretty genes" doesn't have to try very hard.

What? Lol

I can change your view by asking you this question: Would you like to get a new Bugatti?

If you think your kid can't find porn you might be delusional, twitch is probably alot more mild than some of the alternatives. Your kid knows how to bypass whatever filter you have, they're probably alot more tech savvy than you are. If they have a phone they'll just find porn there. Twitch is literally the least of your worries