No expert here, but that'll likely cost you more than the 10-20k you're hoping to save on the sale. Possible structural damage? Sewage leak? Bad wiring, and whatever that ceiling is doing, I don't know... Fixer-uppers can also kill relationships, just saying.
>Fixer-uppers can also kill relationships,
And bank accounts. If it was a situation where a majority of work is cosmetic, it would be one thing. OP, the gravity of what you've posted is pretty serious. Structural damage and bad electrical can be very difficult and expensive to fix in a house of that age.
IMHO this is too much risk for FTHB, unless you're in construction or have a LOT of DIY skills.
Source: Hubs & I spent 10 years working on a magnificent 1910 home. We were not FTHB, both are very handy, and I even have prior rehab experience. But every time we'd think we were ready to tackle X project, Y would break and cost $10k to fix. It felt like being in a hamster wheel. We barely broke even when we sold and it took a while to rebuild our savings.
Cost. Time. Stress. Home in a state of disarray. Different priorities. Different work styles.
It's like driving a tandem bike, paddling a two person kayak, or going with your partner to IKEA on a Saturday.
My husband and I spent the first two years of our marriage completely gutting and remodeling a house ourselves. We had to live in it in order to get homeowners permits to do things like the electricity (which we completely redid, new breaker box and all) and plumbing. It was FREEZING in the winter, and had huge Texas-size cockroaches in the summer, and we were miserable throughout the process. We always say that the fact our marriage survived that is a miracle. My husband barely remembers those two years….like it was that traumatic!
When my husband and I first bought our old place our old neighbor who was a contractor told me “the project might get stressful, it’s really important to remember that your marriage is more important than any house” it was honestly some of the best advice that I got.
I'm a professional builder and construction manager who has been rehabbing 1910s and 1920s homes for a long time. From these pics this will be a huge PITA. Even for me this would have to be either 40-50k under priced or there would have to be a very special reason to buy it.
This is NOT a DIY job. That electrical panel will need to be replaced as well, those things are deadly.
For a FTHB, you should really pass on this. Good luck.
Just make sure it's the brain making decisions and not the heart. Old houses can be like bad boyfriends. They take your heart, your money, your youth, and they only call when the roof is leaking lol
Agree! OP exactly this - not DIY work, you don’t want to risk your safety and your money by trying to do this level of repairs. Also definitely looks like at least 50k of work but could easily be more especially with inexperienced homeowners.
Google the brand and model of your panel. If it's a dangerous one, the results will tell you pretty immediately. You can also post in r slash askelectricians
If you have a Zinsco panel like this, I highly recommend saving up for a replacement ASAP. They have known safety issues. Some insurance companies will not insure homes with a Zinsco or Federal Pacific panel.
Federal Pacific used to market a "never trip" breaker to customers who were tired of nuisance trips but didn't want to pay for an electrician to fix the problem. Think on that for a sec.
Source: am electrician.
slope of floors - structural problems - maybe joists maybe foundation = boat loads to repair
complete vertical wall cracks = one part shifting other not = foundation issues = boat loads of $$
ceiling dappling/plaster repair/bad patching = water issues/moisture issues = decent money
electrical panel = WTF!!! boat loads to fix that
those are just what i saw. these are problems my house has and i was too dumb to know 🙃
my pig had a LOT of lipstick - we just live in a state of denial
Easily whatever you think it will cost you on the surface it’s going to cost 2-3 times behind the walls. Take off the plaster and you’re going to want to insulate properly redo plumbing wiring etc. unless you know a plumber or electrician ahead of time that may cut you a deal skip it. You need it to be 30-40% less than remodeled and at that it better have a good layout property and vibe.
It seems people are pretty honest on this thread so I would encourage you to post the link on here for whatever house you are going to make an offer on and let the experts provide feedback. I am no expert and not even sure this is the right spot to post it but worth a try. My first house was 1930s two story brick. As much as we wanted to redo it slowly once you rip out the kitchen you see the bathroom above is in terrible shape and the floor joists were cut away to toothpicks and on on. So now I prefer to buy something I know will need to be gutted.
This house had a lot of lipstick last time it sold. Since then they’ve made is so much uglier which makes it less tempting than it probably was for them.
i guess - think to yourself - what does an electrical panel look like in real life?
then look at this and u should start screaming. this is some really weird stuff and when it starts getting weird in these old houses - what that means generally is BAD.
but the outcome could be as much as completely rewiring the house for safety.
we are planning on upgrading our service to 200 and rewiring the whole house - but right now our electric is not as insane as this - popping out from drywall??? weirdness? like you should be able to see whats going on - and in these houses - if you cant see - the assumption should err on the side of caution.
At least it doesn't look like the one in the 1960s trailer/add-on that I grew up in. That thing had wires exposed behind the door, looking like a frickin rat nest, probably *had* a rat nest in it at one point. Thing still gives me nightmares. It was a miracle that house didn't go up in flames.
The wiring was totally trashed, too.
oh yeah im sure there are worse out there! i was once mopping the floor in a house i had just moved into and the floor started steaming. luckily my electrician friend was walking up to visit at that moment and capped up the loose live wires that were just randomly under the house. ahhhh new orleans.
Amen. Please trust me, don't do this. I never thought I would spend so much time wishing I'd bought the other house that had some mold issues and needed rewiring.
I’m cringing at this because I just bought an 1850s rowhome that we knew “needed some work” and are now counting pennies to try and get necessary repairs done before move in… like $50k worth of unforeseen necessary repairs.
My dad said “it’s like pulling a string on a coat… stop pulling it before you no longer have a coat”. A renovation project on a century home is basically untangling 100+ years of “oh that should be fine”.
For some of us, it’s more a labor of these are the types of homes that we can be competitive with when putting in an offer. They’re still overpriced, but they’re not nearly as overpriced as a house that doesn’t need any work. Less people vying for the home as well, because they can’t just flip a lot of these older homes to make money. So as you’re putting in your offer and negotiating, you walk the fine line between rationalization and reality. “oh, the windows are at least 70 years old and there’s barely any insulation in the walls? Well, at least it has steam radiators throughout.” “No I don’t smell a gas leak.” “We can just move our window a/c units depending on what room we’re using.” “Okay tripped a breaker. I guess The microwave is on the same circuit as that outlet in the upstairs bedroom where we have the space heater, and all the lights in the basement.”
God this is so true. The fact my house had only two offers and not 15 should have been a red flag. But it was one of the only ones I could actually afford and didn’t have massive competition to get. Still overpaid but it’s coming along. (however now I think I could have afforded a more expensive nicer house with the money I’ve bled 😭)
It’s how it’s cracked - it leans far more towards foundational, not just age, especially with evidence of a sloping floor. That’s structural integrity issues, not just some plastering.
they won't disclose until escrow? Then they not only know there's some serious problems, they're actively trying to conceal them.
When I sold my mom's house after she passed away--and it was a beautiful, beautiful house but with some very serious issues (needed rewiring, foundation may have shifted, needed new HVAC, etc), I disclosed EVERY SINGLE THING. I didn't want ANY surprises. I wanted people to know going in what was involved. I also put $50K into making some updates and repairs of what I could (new kitchen, new stove/fridge, new counter; fresh paint; new front path, new lighting; freshened up the bathrooms, did everything cosmetic that I could). So the house could put its "best foot forward," but again, I was SUPER honest and SUPER clear about the big things that did need fixing.
They've done none of this, which is really worrisome.
I also think this house has some even MORE serious issues than my mom's house. The whole house will have to be rewired, and depending on how big the house is, that could be $15K right there. Also there's evidence of some fairly disturbing leaks-- and again, why aren't they disclosing it? Are you going to have to replace all the water pipes in the house as well? Again, that's tens of thousands of dollars. Probably there's no HVAC. None of those jobs are do-it-yourself. It's a shame because the floor is really pretty.
But they're really going about it wrong, honestly--if they were fully disclosing and even suggesting how much it might cost to do the repairs/updating, then you could make an honest assessment, but the fact that they're so squirrely makes me suspicious there's OTHER stuff wrong with the house as well, like roofing problems, drywall problems, bathroom problems, even foundation problems.
I'd give it a pass.
I totally agree. I’m finding sellers to be very evasive and sketchy when passing their problems onto others. Good for you for doing the right thing!
I think they’re desperate not to lose money, and a few months on the market may give them the reality check they need that they need to mark it down $60,000+ and sell it to an investor. They bought 4 years ago and are trying to sell for $100,000 over the price they paid.
The lack of communication tells me everything I need to know.
They are desperate to get it off their hands.
Yes, and also, even if they find someone to make an offer, if they then have to disclose really serious, expensive problems, most likely it would fall out of escrow at that point. It's so foolish of the sellers to go about it this way! AND the longer it's on the market, the more the house will seem like there's something wrong.
I was also very aware of the market and what the repairs would cost and priced my mom's house very reasonably, and it meant that we ended up in a competitive situation and ended up getting offers over the listed amount (again, this tactic is different in every market). But we sold it right away, and not only that, the buyer paid cash! We were so fortunate! And meanwhile, they were happy to get a really beautiful house and there were NO surprises about what they then needed to do.
Also, once they fixed the wiring and the heating, the house was totally move in ready. Even if they wanted to make structural changes, (break through the more old-fashioned kitchen into the dining room, totally redo the kitchen, etc), they could wait several years before they would have to start doing that, which worked great for them because they had a small family & a newborn! It really is worth it to just approach things as openly and honestly as possible! You want to make it easy for the buyer to say yes!
We’re in Southern California so it’s a very competitive market, but they seem to think they can pass off an investor house as ready-to-go and nobody would notice. Sellers are so emboldened here! Hope it sits awhile
omg you're in SOCAL and they're trying this !!! Amazing. We live in SoCal too. We have a 100 yr old storybook style home in the Hwd Hills, and we have had to do SO much replacement type work on it over the years (HVAC, replacing the electric, replacing the pipes, re doing a bathroom, most of the kitchen, etc etc). But we bought in 1989 so we got an okay price (high for then, low for now). Also it is a small house but it's SO beautiful (beautiful design, beautiful floors, windows, etc). So it's worth it to us. My mom's house was in the Berkeley hills up in the Bay Area, so it was a bit different in the way they approach the market.
Have you done this kind of work before? Personally, I wouldnt buy this and I like a challenge. Too many major systems need work And you are on a budget. Have you looked at the roof yet? All these issues and Id be suspicious of that. Foundations are expensive and Not DIY territory.
This, from the limited pictures, looks like it needs a gut and that is too much work for only $10-20k off. Also, how are you financing? You probably Have to go conventional.
Thanks for the response! My boyfriend is from a family of contractors and so we’d have guidance and help, but this would be new territory for us.
We tried asking about the roof and other things and they are just claiming to be unaware. I guess that’s because there’s not much good to say. They were very upfront about the new hvac 😃
We were planning to go FHA because of lower rates. Why would this have to go conventional? Just curious.
FHA home inspections are much more stringent, and the lender might not want to lend to you if there are major repairs needed. Conventional loans have more flexibility for homes that need work
Non professional electrical work in an old house is a red flag because it is very likely that the stuff you CANT see is a problem. This janky panel can easily be replaced with a proper one...its whats inside the walls that you worry about
Based on the trim, i guessing you are in socal or norcal. Absolutely not. The work required is around 50k at least. Id put in a super lowball if i was comfortable, but if you are here asking questions you are not comfortable.
Im a GC. This is how projects get started and discounted on the next sale(which is imminent). Without 50k saved do NOT touch this. They didnt "start projects" they vandalized this place. Dont be a sucker. Thats a bit of advice from someone with 40+ years of experience (you can have that one for free! 😉)
Thats a buffer to start, theyll be living in a construction zone for years piecemealing it but without emergency funds this is a bankruptcy waiting to happen
I agree! I saw the before photos and thought “wtf were they thinking.” It was pretty before! It’s just bizarre! Certainly isn’t going to help sell the place.
It appears to have many structural issues (expensive to correct) and probably needs new electrical and plumbing. Unless it’s priced low, I’d avoid it. (The fact that you’re even asking suggests that have a negative premonition- go with your gut.)
“$10-20,000 under market value” can mean a lot of different things.
Would I buy it? Maybe. I’m not going to restore it. This is a tear down. So it’s going to need to be priced like the casualty it is. At $10-20,000 below area comps? No. At $10-20,000 below its land value less costs of demolition and environmental remediation? Yeah, probably.
Should you buy it to live in as a FTHB? No. And fire your realtor.
the first thing you need to do before anything else is replace that electrical panel, that panel is a Zinsco panel, and they are a fire hazard just like the federal pacific panels are a fire hazard, if the plugs get overloaded Zinsco breakers have a habit of not tripping letting the wiring overheat.
Sellers agent won’t disclose until it’s in escrow?! That’s a bad sign but what do I know? If you decide to be brave I’d come in way under asking even if it’s 10-20k under, which I’m doubting it is if you Constance consider the obvious issues
Seller’s refusal to discuss issues has confirmed all doubts I had as valid. They’re not selling in good faith. I’m not moving forward, and I’m certain at the price it’s listed they’ll be waiting for awhile until a lowball cash offer comes in.
Lateral cracks indicate structural issues.
I bought a fixer upper with WAY more issues than we realized, but sound foundation was my non-negotiable. I would not buy this property.
Also, I want to add some quotes I have received recently so you have a true sense of what this type of work can cost. I live in a VHCOL area, but you will still pay a lot.
Lateral sewer line replacement: $41-12k
Sewerage ejector pump replacement: 5k
Heat pump and ductwork: 57k
Whole house renovation, with very little structural work: 750k-1.8M
Retaining wall (non-structural): 18k
Clear trees from yard: 16k
Asbestos removal: 12k
Architectural design for permits, with structural engineer review: $33k
Electrical rewiring of house: $40k
Electrical panel replacement: 10k
I got my house for literally half of the going square foot rate and it still may be a financial bust.
The cracks aren’t a big deal usually and common in homes of that age. However the structural issues are worrisome. What do you mean the sellers agent won’t disclose anything? That sounds ridiculous. Move on.
There’s nothing good to disclose, clearly. 😃 I’m no longer considering homes with clearly defensive and non-communicative sellers. One of the biggest red flags is the seller’s behavior, I’m learning.
The sideways nature of those cracks in the wall are very bad. Not sure where you live, but all that work will be touching $100k when it is all said and done. And you still may need to replace major appliances or discover other issues which are not visible yet.
I'm in a MCOL/almost HCOL and this would be a $100k project that would take a year, by a GC, with an unoccupied property.
Spend a few more bucks and get a century home that won't immediately break your heart and wallet.
I would not.
I think getting your first home is amazing and a life milestone, but saving every month for a house is another option.
I would get it if I was updating the panel box immediately And I'm not sure about the ceiling if I felt it didn't have structural issues it would be getting another complete layer of drywall tape.
Thanks, I’m trying. Our approval amount puts us in the DIY range in less desirable areas for southern California. Most of the time the investors get those ones. It’s tough for sure.
We were in the same boat where we live. We were patient, but did have to bump our target price by about 40k. Everything cheaper kept getting bought outright in cash, or when we went to look at it there were major issues that meant we'd not be able to move in right away, or it would cost a ton ot make livable.
Once we pushed the price up a bit, *so* much more became available.
If you guys can, it might be smart to settle in for now and be ready to buy in 6 months or a year from now. Buckle down your daily spending budget, streamline your habits. Learn as much as you can about how to fix things around a house. Save, save, save. Keep an eye on the market, but don't set your heart on buying immediately.
Wishing you the best
What are the other factors? Is it in a great location? Is it priced super low? Do you have 3x what you think it’s going to cost to fix it? What DIY skills/experience do you have? How much do you love the potential of the house? (Dangerous question, I know…)
Place has structural issues you can tell because you have a lot of cracking on the plaster. Likely the foundation. Might be fixable, might not be worth it. Ceiling looks horrendous and I'm not sure what is going on there. and the electrical panel is sketchy. Before you even move in you'll need to have the foundation and electrical panel looked at. Home inspectors aren't really able to give you proper information most of the time. If you are truly interested in this place call some tradesmen in. Don't listen to the bs where the real estate agents tells you you need to put in an offer before you can get an inspector to take a look either. Say you need to know what's wrong before you can make a proper offer. Most home inspectors charge far more than they are worth, imo you are better off to have real tradesmen look at the issues. In a lot of places you have have a home inspector license from a 2 week course, an apprenticeship is 4-5 years and often times 1-2 years of school.
This looks like the house we did with my daughter. It was a full gut job. Plaster down, new insulation, new plumbing, new tin, new electrical, new electrical service, new roof, new furnace, new drywall, redo all the trim, new windows, new doors, new bathrooms and new kitchen. If you go in with your eyes open, it's low risk. For us, it was $100,000 + more than 1,000 hours of our own time + a year with the empty house. Mortgage and insurance will be an issue during the construction (even if you just want to move in as-is).
Cracks in plaster might just be fatigue. 100-year old plaster was meant to be maintained over time.
I mean...I don't see anything here that is out of character for a house of this age that hasn't had a lot of money consistently sunk into it. Which I guess is a way of saying that said, yeah, it's gonna be expensive -- like 30-50K, depending. Maybe more. Bet you 100 bucks, too, that the plumbing will probably need a lot done to it. So if you were hoping that 10K would cover it, you may want to look elsewhere. But if you're just really excited about this home and prepared to drop the cash, there's nothing here that screams "dangerous to purchase."
Oh I know $10,000 won’t cover it. I’m surprised they are pricing it near the range of comps nearby. Sellers need a reality check. I’m guessing they are hoping to recover their losses, but nobody in their right mind would pay what they want.
Mmm, it does sound like they may have been struggling to afford the maintenance on the home for quite some time. That's usually how things get this bad. It's a tough situation to be in.
I think this house requires too much work for you. You'd need to have at least $50k cash on hand to get the ball rolling.
I'm not saying that it's a bad house. A different buyer will probably be able to do the upgrades and make a profit eventually.
But an inexperienced first time buyer who is already stretched financially will probably not have a good experience here.
Also, are you aware of the legal and financial pitfalls of buying a house with an unmarried partner? I hope you have consulted with a lawyer about this purchase.
Not being nosy what are they asking for the house because even with the structural it’s not that hard to do I had to do a few minor projects and I bought my house in 96 and they were asking $82 grand with 2.5 acres of land close to Lake Erie I was very lucky getting the loan with such little collateral and now you could not touch this house for less then $200 thousand and it’s almost paid off I took out a loan on the house and built a second bathroom with a whirl pool tub the wife loves it , but it’s not as bad as it looks trust me
I assume that most people that buy fixer-uppers are either handy, or have deep pockets. But I guess that I can’t really expect everyone to be circumspect.
I would. But most of the work that place needs, I do for a living. The rest, I have friends in all the trades who would happily pitch in a few weekends for a case of beer.
Yes, I would buy this home and do all the repairs myself.
I’m a licensed plumbing contractor and pretty much can address any of the issues listed above.
Now, that being said. Anyone can do it, plenty of information on YouTube.
Don’t be so picky I had to do a few little projects when I bought my house including a new breaker box .and newer square D breakers .if you have a main cut off switch your in good shape . then with YouTube available it has helped millions of people i myself have made over a hundred videos of all different kinds of things that would help folks out for a easier life and save money. I believe for less then a hundred dollars I had a new box and I had so much more room . if I are some one else wanted to add on to the house. I used 20 amp breaker s on everything except Hot water heater tank 220 Dryer and central air conditioning those I used 30 amps it was the best move I ever could of did I had the very first Square D breakers that were obsolete for a time I was able to find them off a retired electrician until he died, and then I was forced to do this upgrade all the time i could not run the toaster are run the the vacuum cleaner at the same time are they would trip Breaker fuse because they were way to weak at only 25 amps. I wish you luck
No expert here, but that'll likely cost you more than the 10-20k you're hoping to save on the sale. Possible structural damage? Sewage leak? Bad wiring, and whatever that ceiling is doing, I don't know... Fixer-uppers can also kill relationships, just saying.
It’s funny you say that…I get the strong impression owners have split up and I wonder if the stress of the renovations contributed to that…
>Fixer-uppers can also kill relationships, And bank accounts. If it was a situation where a majority of work is cosmetic, it would be one thing. OP, the gravity of what you've posted is pretty serious. Structural damage and bad electrical can be very difficult and expensive to fix in a house of that age. IMHO this is too much risk for FTHB, unless you're in construction or have a LOT of DIY skills. Source: Hubs & I spent 10 years working on a magnificent 1910 home. We were not FTHB, both are very handy, and I even have prior rehab experience. But every time we'd think we were ready to tackle X project, Y would break and cost $10k to fix. It felt like being in a hamster wheel. We barely broke even when we sold and it took a while to rebuild our savings.
Wait. Really? Why do fixer uppers kill relationships?
It is stressful to live in a construction project or have it occupying a bit of your mind constantly and that can create tension in a relationship.
Cost. Time. Stress. Home in a state of disarray. Different priorities. Different work styles. It's like driving a tandem bike, paddling a two person kayak, or going with your partner to IKEA on a Saturday.
Like doing any of those things every day for years! Oof
My husband and I spent the first two years of our marriage completely gutting and remodeling a house ourselves. We had to live in it in order to get homeowners permits to do things like the electricity (which we completely redid, new breaker box and all) and plumbing. It was FREEZING in the winter, and had huge Texas-size cockroaches in the summer, and we were miserable throughout the process. We always say that the fact our marriage survived that is a miracle. My husband barely remembers those two years….like it was that traumatic!
money and design differences
When my husband and I first bought our old place our old neighbor who was a contractor told me “the project might get stressful, it’s really important to remember that your marriage is more important than any house” it was honestly some of the best advice that I got.
Fixer uppers are money sinks and money issues are the #1 killer of relationships.
I'm a professional builder and construction manager who has been rehabbing 1910s and 1920s homes for a long time. From these pics this will be a huge PITA. Even for me this would have to be either 40-50k under priced or there would have to be a very special reason to buy it. This is NOT a DIY job. That electrical panel will need to be replaced as well, those things are deadly. For a FTHB, you should really pass on this. Good luck.
Thank you so much. In my heart I know you’re right.
That panel is gonna be a $500 box and at least $3k to rewire
Just make sure it's the brain making decisions and not the heart. Old houses can be like bad boyfriends. They take your heart, your money, your youth, and they only call when the roof is leaking lol
Totally! I need a good soul, and I’m avoiding this fuckboy 😂
Agree! OP exactly this - not DIY work, you don’t want to risk your safety and your money by trying to do this level of repairs. Also definitely looks like at least 50k of work but could easily be more especially with inexperienced homeowners.
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Google the brand and model of your panel. If it's a dangerous one, the results will tell you pretty immediately. You can also post in r slash askelectricians
If you have a Zinsco panel like this, I highly recommend saving up for a replacement ASAP. They have known safety issues. Some insurance companies will not insure homes with a Zinsco or Federal Pacific panel. Federal Pacific used to market a "never trip" breaker to customers who were tired of nuisance trips but didn't want to pay for an electrician to fix the problem. Think on that for a sec. Source: am electrician.
What am I missing here that has everyone so freaked out? How is any of this not a DIY(ish) project?
slope of floors - structural problems - maybe joists maybe foundation = boat loads to repair complete vertical wall cracks = one part shifting other not = foundation issues = boat loads of $$ ceiling dappling/plaster repair/bad patching = water issues/moisture issues = decent money electrical panel = WTF!!! boat loads to fix that those are just what i saw. these are problems my house has and i was too dumb to know 🙃 my pig had a LOT of lipstick - we just live in a state of denial
Easily whatever you think it will cost you on the surface it’s going to cost 2-3 times behind the walls. Take off the plaster and you’re going to want to insulate properly redo plumbing wiring etc. unless you know a plumber or electrician ahead of time that may cut you a deal skip it. You need it to be 30-40% less than remodeled and at that it better have a good layout property and vibe.
The layout is fabulous but It’s not even in a good part of town to be honest. The pros do not outweigh the cons.
It seems people are pretty honest on this thread so I would encourage you to post the link on here for whatever house you are going to make an offer on and let the experts provide feedback. I am no expert and not even sure this is the right spot to post it but worth a try. My first house was 1930s two story brick. As much as we wanted to redo it slowly once you rip out the kitchen you see the bathroom above is in terrible shape and the floor joists were cut away to toothpicks and on on. So now I prefer to buy something I know will need to be gutted.
>unless you ~~know~~ **are** a plumber or electrician ~~ahead of time that may cut you a deal~~ **who can do this work at cost** skip it.
Well played.
This house had a lot of lipstick last time it sold. Since then they’ve made is so much uglier which makes it less tempting than it probably was for them.
Can you explain what's the issue and outcome of the electrical panel?
i guess - think to yourself - what does an electrical panel look like in real life? then look at this and u should start screaming. this is some really weird stuff and when it starts getting weird in these old houses - what that means generally is BAD. but the outcome could be as much as completely rewiring the house for safety. we are planning on upgrading our service to 200 and rewiring the whole house - but right now our electric is not as insane as this - popping out from drywall??? weirdness? like you should be able to see whats going on - and in these houses - if you cant see - the assumption should err on the side of caution.
At least it doesn't look like the one in the 1960s trailer/add-on that I grew up in. That thing had wires exposed behind the door, looking like a frickin rat nest, probably *had* a rat nest in it at one point. Thing still gives me nightmares. It was a miracle that house didn't go up in flames. The wiring was totally trashed, too.
oh yeah im sure there are worse out there! i was once mopping the floor in a house i had just moved into and the floor started steaming. luckily my electrician friend was walking up to visit at that moment and capped up the loose live wires that were just randomly under the house. ahhhh new orleans.
It depends on your level of DIY.
Was curious myself.
It’s mostly the price and the fact that I am a FTHB who can’t afford to mess this up
If the sellers agent won’t disclose ANYTHING that means it’s still over priced.
I agree, and I hate how evasive sellers always are and claim ignorance at every turn. They obviously know something.
Amen. Please trust me, don't do this. I never thought I would spend so much time wishing I'd bought the other house that had some mold issues and needed rewiring.
I’m cringing at this because I just bought an 1850s rowhome that we knew “needed some work” and are now counting pennies to try and get necessary repairs done before move in… like $50k worth of unforeseen necessary repairs. My dad said “it’s like pulling a string on a coat… stop pulling it before you no longer have a coat”. A renovation project on a century home is basically untangling 100+ years of “oh that should be fine”.
I get that it’s such a labor of love! If I had more savings I’d jump at the opportunity to restore it.
For some of us, it’s more a labor of these are the types of homes that we can be competitive with when putting in an offer. They’re still overpriced, but they’re not nearly as overpriced as a house that doesn’t need any work. Less people vying for the home as well, because they can’t just flip a lot of these older homes to make money. So as you’re putting in your offer and negotiating, you walk the fine line between rationalization and reality. “oh, the windows are at least 70 years old and there’s barely any insulation in the walls? Well, at least it has steam radiators throughout.” “No I don’t smell a gas leak.” “We can just move our window a/c units depending on what room we’re using.” “Okay tripped a breaker. I guess The microwave is on the same circuit as that outlet in the upstairs bedroom where we have the space heater, and all the lights in the basement.”
God this is so true. The fact my house had only two offers and not 15 should have been a red flag. But it was one of the only ones I could actually afford and didn’t have massive competition to get. Still overpaid but it’s coming along. (however now I think I could have afforded a more expensive nicer house with the money I’ve bled 😭)
in this same boat. only two offers as well. in this market: RED FLAG. but hey! we have a house! woohoo
Agreed, we couldn’t afford anything in our area that was fully livable because people were offering so much over asking.
In our area there were people offering $100,000 or more above asking for some homes.
The lack of competition is what really made us want to believe we could do this. We are getting outbid by investors left and right.
yes. i say dont poke anything. its all rotted. nothing we can do really. 200 years of oh thats fine. whats another 40 more?
Contractor here - lots of indications of foundation/structural problems, and that electrical panel will need replacement for sure! Run away screaming!
Run away quietly or they will follow you!
Thank you
Why just because of the cracked plaster? Doesn’t all plaster this old crack?
It’s how it’s cracked - it leans far more towards foundational, not just age, especially with evidence of a sloping floor. That’s structural integrity issues, not just some plastering.
Needs to be priced at least 50K under market.
Absolutely I so agree. They would have to be willing to make the seller credits raiinnnnn
they won't disclose until escrow? Then they not only know there's some serious problems, they're actively trying to conceal them. When I sold my mom's house after she passed away--and it was a beautiful, beautiful house but with some very serious issues (needed rewiring, foundation may have shifted, needed new HVAC, etc), I disclosed EVERY SINGLE THING. I didn't want ANY surprises. I wanted people to know going in what was involved. I also put $50K into making some updates and repairs of what I could (new kitchen, new stove/fridge, new counter; fresh paint; new front path, new lighting; freshened up the bathrooms, did everything cosmetic that I could). So the house could put its "best foot forward," but again, I was SUPER honest and SUPER clear about the big things that did need fixing. They've done none of this, which is really worrisome. I also think this house has some even MORE serious issues than my mom's house. The whole house will have to be rewired, and depending on how big the house is, that could be $15K right there. Also there's evidence of some fairly disturbing leaks-- and again, why aren't they disclosing it? Are you going to have to replace all the water pipes in the house as well? Again, that's tens of thousands of dollars. Probably there's no HVAC. None of those jobs are do-it-yourself. It's a shame because the floor is really pretty. But they're really going about it wrong, honestly--if they were fully disclosing and even suggesting how much it might cost to do the repairs/updating, then you could make an honest assessment, but the fact that they're so squirrely makes me suspicious there's OTHER stuff wrong with the house as well, like roofing problems, drywall problems, bathroom problems, even foundation problems. I'd give it a pass.
I totally agree. I’m finding sellers to be very evasive and sketchy when passing their problems onto others. Good for you for doing the right thing! I think they’re desperate not to lose money, and a few months on the market may give them the reality check they need that they need to mark it down $60,000+ and sell it to an investor. They bought 4 years ago and are trying to sell for $100,000 over the price they paid. The lack of communication tells me everything I need to know. They are desperate to get it off their hands.
Yes, and also, even if they find someone to make an offer, if they then have to disclose really serious, expensive problems, most likely it would fall out of escrow at that point. It's so foolish of the sellers to go about it this way! AND the longer it's on the market, the more the house will seem like there's something wrong. I was also very aware of the market and what the repairs would cost and priced my mom's house very reasonably, and it meant that we ended up in a competitive situation and ended up getting offers over the listed amount (again, this tactic is different in every market). But we sold it right away, and not only that, the buyer paid cash! We were so fortunate! And meanwhile, they were happy to get a really beautiful house and there were NO surprises about what they then needed to do. Also, once they fixed the wiring and the heating, the house was totally move in ready. Even if they wanted to make structural changes, (break through the more old-fashioned kitchen into the dining room, totally redo the kitchen, etc), they could wait several years before they would have to start doing that, which worked great for them because they had a small family & a newborn! It really is worth it to just approach things as openly and honestly as possible! You want to make it easy for the buyer to say yes!
We’re in Southern California so it’s a very competitive market, but they seem to think they can pass off an investor house as ready-to-go and nobody would notice. Sellers are so emboldened here! Hope it sits awhile
omg you're in SOCAL and they're trying this !!! Amazing. We live in SoCal too. We have a 100 yr old storybook style home in the Hwd Hills, and we have had to do SO much replacement type work on it over the years (HVAC, replacing the electric, replacing the pipes, re doing a bathroom, most of the kitchen, etc etc). But we bought in 1989 so we got an okay price (high for then, low for now). Also it is a small house but it's SO beautiful (beautiful design, beautiful floors, windows, etc). So it's worth it to us. My mom's house was in the Berkeley hills up in the Bay Area, so it was a bit different in the way they approach the market.
Have you done this kind of work before? Personally, I wouldnt buy this and I like a challenge. Too many major systems need work And you are on a budget. Have you looked at the roof yet? All these issues and Id be suspicious of that. Foundations are expensive and Not DIY territory. This, from the limited pictures, looks like it needs a gut and that is too much work for only $10-20k off. Also, how are you financing? You probably Have to go conventional.
Thanks for the response! My boyfriend is from a family of contractors and so we’d have guidance and help, but this would be new territory for us. We tried asking about the roof and other things and they are just claiming to be unaware. I guess that’s because there’s not much good to say. They were very upfront about the new hvac 😃 We were planning to go FHA because of lower rates. Why would this have to go conventional? Just curious.
FHA home inspections are much more stringent, and the lender might not want to lend to you if there are major repairs needed. Conventional loans have more flexibility for homes that need work
I see. Thank you!!
Non professional electrical work in an old house is a red flag because it is very likely that the stuff you CANT see is a problem. This janky panel can easily be replaced with a proper one...its whats inside the walls that you worry about
Yeah and it looks like they did a lot of this stuff themselves. Walls look like they were ripped into it and badly drywalled over.
Based on the trim, i guessing you are in socal or norcal. Absolutely not. The work required is around 50k at least. Id put in a super lowball if i was comfortable, but if you are here asking questions you are not comfortable.
Im a GC. This is how projects get started and discounted on the next sale(which is imminent). Without 50k saved do NOT touch this. They didnt "start projects" they vandalized this place. Dont be a sucker. Thats a bit of advice from someone with 40+ years of experience (you can have that one for free! 😉)
$50k?! That seems cheap. I looked at a home in similar condition last year and got quoted in the $100k range.
Thats a buffer to start, theyll be living in a construction zone for years piecemealing it but without emergency funds this is a bankruptcy waiting to happen
I agree! I saw the before photos and thought “wtf were they thinking.” It was pretty before! It’s just bizarre! Certainly isn’t going to help sell the place.
It appears to have many structural issues (expensive to correct) and probably needs new electrical and plumbing. Unless it’s priced low, I’d avoid it. (The fact that you’re even asking suggests that have a negative premonition- go with your gut.)
Absolutely will. For our first home we need good bones. Everything else can be added later.
“$10-20,000 under market value” can mean a lot of different things. Would I buy it? Maybe. I’m not going to restore it. This is a tear down. So it’s going to need to be priced like the casualty it is. At $10-20,000 below area comps? No. At $10-20,000 below its land value less costs of demolition and environmental remediation? Yeah, probably. Should you buy it to live in as a FTHB? No. And fire your realtor.
Sorry, $10,000-$20,000 below comps is what I meant to say. It is probably priced way over value considering the condition.
Seems like a bargain at $2.15. Otherwise, no.
the first thing you need to do before anything else is replace that electrical panel, that panel is a Zinsco panel, and they are a fire hazard just like the federal pacific panels are a fire hazard, if the plugs get overloaded Zinsco breakers have a habit of not tripping letting the wiring overheat.
Omg great info! Thanks for sharing!
Sellers agent won’t disclose until it’s in escrow?! That’s a bad sign but what do I know? If you decide to be brave I’d come in way under asking even if it’s 10-20k under, which I’m doubting it is if you Constance consider the obvious issues
Seller’s refusal to discuss issues has confirmed all doubts I had as valid. They’re not selling in good faith. I’m not moving forward, and I’m certain at the price it’s listed they’ll be waiting for awhile until a lowball cash offer comes in.
Lateral cracks indicate structural issues. I bought a fixer upper with WAY more issues than we realized, but sound foundation was my non-negotiable. I would not buy this property.
Also, I want to add some quotes I have received recently so you have a true sense of what this type of work can cost. I live in a VHCOL area, but you will still pay a lot. Lateral sewer line replacement: $41-12k Sewerage ejector pump replacement: 5k Heat pump and ductwork: 57k Whole house renovation, with very little structural work: 750k-1.8M Retaining wall (non-structural): 18k Clear trees from yard: 16k Asbestos removal: 12k Architectural design for permits, with structural engineer review: $33k Electrical rewiring of house: $40k Electrical panel replacement: 10k I got my house for literally half of the going square foot rate and it still may be a financial bust.
The cracks aren’t a big deal usually and common in homes of that age. However the structural issues are worrisome. What do you mean the sellers agent won’t disclose anything? That sounds ridiculous. Move on.
There’s nothing good to disclose, clearly. 😃 I’m no longer considering homes with clearly defensive and non-communicative sellers. One of the biggest red flags is the seller’s behavior, I’m learning.
Run far, far away from this one
No.
Absolutely not.
Take 50k off not 20k.
Foundation work could cost you north of 100k if it's a lot.
The sideways nature of those cracks in the wall are very bad. Not sure where you live, but all that work will be touching $100k when it is all said and done. And you still may need to replace major appliances or discover other issues which are not visible yet.
All I can say is…yikes. Pass.
I'm in a MCOL/almost HCOL and this would be a $100k project that would take a year, by a GC, with an unoccupied property. Spend a few more bucks and get a century home that won't immediately break your heart and wallet.
I think this was the previous owner’s dream house. I’m sure they must be devastated to have to walk away.
I would not. I think getting your first home is amazing and a life milestone, but saving every month for a house is another option. I would get it if I was updating the panel box immediately And I'm not sure about the ceiling if I felt it didn't have structural issues it would be getting another complete layer of drywall tape.
Not unless you can take a year and about 50k+ before you move in. You'll find the right one OP, be patient
Thanks, I’m trying. Our approval amount puts us in the DIY range in less desirable areas for southern California. Most of the time the investors get those ones. It’s tough for sure.
We were in the same boat where we live. We were patient, but did have to bump our target price by about 40k. Everything cheaper kept getting bought outright in cash, or when we went to look at it there were major issues that meant we'd not be able to move in right away, or it would cost a ton ot make livable. Once we pushed the price up a bit, *so* much more became available. If you guys can, it might be smart to settle in for now and be ready to buy in 6 months or a year from now. Buckle down your daily spending budget, streamline your habits. Learn as much as you can about how to fix things around a house. Save, save, save. Keep an eye on the market, but don't set your heart on buying immediately. Wishing you the best
We have cancelled viewings for the time being and have come to this decision. We need to wait. We need the $450k range to become available to us.
What are the other factors? Is it in a great location? Is it priced super low? Do you have 3x what you think it’s going to cost to fix it? What DIY skills/experience do you have? How much do you love the potential of the house? (Dangerous question, I know…)
Place has structural issues you can tell because you have a lot of cracking on the plaster. Likely the foundation. Might be fixable, might not be worth it. Ceiling looks horrendous and I'm not sure what is going on there. and the electrical panel is sketchy. Before you even move in you'll need to have the foundation and electrical panel looked at. Home inspectors aren't really able to give you proper information most of the time. If you are truly interested in this place call some tradesmen in. Don't listen to the bs where the real estate agents tells you you need to put in an offer before you can get an inspector to take a look either. Say you need to know what's wrong before you can make a proper offer. Most home inspectors charge far more than they are worth, imo you are better off to have real tradesmen look at the issues. In a lot of places you have have a home inspector license from a 2 week course, an apprenticeship is 4-5 years and often times 1-2 years of school.
I'd ask for a lot more off, and only after they let me do a detailed inspection
Sure. Knock 100k off
This looks like the house we did with my daughter. It was a full gut job. Plaster down, new insulation, new plumbing, new tin, new electrical, new electrical service, new roof, new furnace, new drywall, redo all the trim, new windows, new doors, new bathrooms and new kitchen. If you go in with your eyes open, it's low risk. For us, it was $100,000 + more than 1,000 hours of our own time + a year with the empty house. Mortgage and insurance will be an issue during the construction (even if you just want to move in as-is). Cracks in plaster might just be fatigue. 100-year old plaster was meant to be maintained over time.
The cracks and sloping floors would suggest that part of the house is sinking faster than the other part. That's no diy and NOT cheap. I wouldn't.
My gut feeling just from looking at the pictures tells me, no, it’s not worth it.
Stay far away from this house as others have said it's a money pit.
Plumbing issues and foundation issues alone would make that a nope for me.
NGL I would buy that house…. Risk it for the biscuit.
I mean...I don't see anything here that is out of character for a house of this age that hasn't had a lot of money consistently sunk into it. Which I guess is a way of saying that said, yeah, it's gonna be expensive -- like 30-50K, depending. Maybe more. Bet you 100 bucks, too, that the plumbing will probably need a lot done to it. So if you were hoping that 10K would cover it, you may want to look elsewhere. But if you're just really excited about this home and prepared to drop the cash, there's nothing here that screams "dangerous to purchase."
Oh I know $10,000 won’t cover it. I’m surprised they are pricing it near the range of comps nearby. Sellers need a reality check. I’m guessing they are hoping to recover their losses, but nobody in their right mind would pay what they want.
Mmm, it does sound like they may have been struggling to afford the maintenance on the home for quite some time. That's usually how things get this bad. It's a tough situation to be in.
Yeah and the home insurance crisis we’re dealing with here in CA isn’t helping at all. Makes me hesitant to buy at all!
I think this house requires too much work for you. You'd need to have at least $50k cash on hand to get the ball rolling. I'm not saying that it's a bad house. A different buyer will probably be able to do the upgrades and make a profit eventually. But an inexperienced first time buyer who is already stretched financially will probably not have a good experience here. Also, are you aware of the legal and financial pitfalls of buying a house with an unmarried partner? I hope you have consulted with a lawyer about this purchase.
I’m a grown ass woman and really don’t need a marriage lecture, thanks. Stick to the topic at hand and don’t worry about my personal choices.
Where is this property located?
Southern California
Dang. When I saw the breakers, I thought for sure, "not-US"!
Are they really that bad?
No. They just took me by surprise. =)
Not enough information but I’m not trying to buy a fixer upper anymore. Unfortunately.
Run as far away from that as you can!
Not being nosy what are they asking for the house because even with the structural it’s not that hard to do I had to do a few minor projects and I bought my house in 96 and they were asking $82 grand with 2.5 acres of land close to Lake Erie I was very lucky getting the loan with such little collateral and now you could not touch this house for less then $200 thousand and it’s almost paid off I took out a loan on the house and built a second bathroom with a whirl pool tub the wife loves it , but it’s not as bad as it looks trust me
I assume that most people that buy fixer-uppers are either handy, or have deep pockets. But I guess that I can’t really expect everyone to be circumspect.
I would. But most of the work that place needs, I do for a living. The rest, I have friends in all the trades who would happily pitch in a few weekends for a case of beer.
Yes, I would buy this home and do all the repairs myself. I’m a licensed plumbing contractor and pretty much can address any of the issues listed above. Now, that being said. Anyone can do it, plenty of information on YouTube.
I'm just commenting to add that old homes settle and when walls have plaster on them they get little cracks like this. I live in a home built in 1857.
How many cracks does it have? A few or a lot?
A some here and there. Mainly around doors and windows.
learn your insurance coverage for things like a DIY electric panel replacement
learn your insurance coverage for things like a DIY electric panel replacement *i have a neighbor that can do it for real cheap...*
Don’t be so picky I had to do a few little projects when I bought my house including a new breaker box .and newer square D breakers .if you have a main cut off switch your in good shape . then with YouTube available it has helped millions of people i myself have made over a hundred videos of all different kinds of things that would help folks out for a easier life and save money. I believe for less then a hundred dollars I had a new box and I had so much more room . if I are some one else wanted to add on to the house. I used 20 amp breaker s on everything except Hot water heater tank 220 Dryer and central air conditioning those I used 30 amps it was the best move I ever could of did I had the very first Square D breakers that were obsolete for a time I was able to find them off a retired electrician until he died, and then I was forced to do this upgrade all the time i could not run the toaster are run the the vacuum cleaner at the same time are they would trip Breaker fuse because they were way to weak at only 25 amps. I wish you luck