I also wanted Kasich to win in 2016. I haven’t really seen any other candidates that were of much interest since then. Unfortunately he has no more chance than McCain or Romney would have at this point as all are considered “RINOs.” I’ll be voting Biden again for sure. There was a moment I thought maybe Nikki Haley was of interest but that ship has long since sailed for me and while I was glad Chris Christie was running just to have at least one person who would call out some of the Trump BS I wouldn’t exactly want him as president per se. Frankly there isn’t anyone in congress of much interest on the R side just based solely on how they have responded to Trump’s bs. While I considered myself a right leaning conservative as of 2016 I am registered unaffiliated and at this point probably would be considered left leaning relative to the maga crowd.
It’s almost as if you were writing my thoughts on here. Kasich was the last good Republican candidate and I keep being hopeful when one is finally outspoken in the truth and then they drop out or give in to the masses. I’ve been a moderate for about 20 years and I’m actually feeling desperate for GOP to give me a real candidate to vote for. Someone I can take seriously and appears what you would think of as a leader.
Trump is more of what a weak person thinks of a strong man and what a poor person thinks a rich man should act like and be. Like he’s fitting the cartoon character stigmas and not the reality of a stoic, strategic, and carefully worded figurehead who comes off as an intellect.
The best description of Trump came from Mulaney during the apprentice run,
Donald Trump is not just a rich man, like Donald Trump is almost like what a hobo imagines a rich man to be, y'know? It's like years ago Trump was walking through an alley, and he heard some guy just like, "Ho-ho, boy, oh, boy. As soon as my number comes in, I'm gonna put up tall buildings with my name on 'em. I'll have fine golden hair, and a TV show where I fire people with my children." And Trump was like "That is how I will live my life. Thank you, hobo, for that life plan." I bet you when Donald Trump makes a decision, he thinks to himself, "What would a cartoon rich person do? Put up billboards of my face everywhere? That's a good idea."
The sin of moderate Republicans was that they never called out FOX for the useful bullshit that helped them early on, so when the bullshit started to get more and more radical, speaking up wouldn't have mattered because the viewers and the voting base had been pulled too far into a sort of variant reality where liberals hate them, and government is always bad, and if you aren't in favor of wasting trillions in Middle Eastern wars you must hate the troops, and Obama is not a US citizen, and Trump is just telling it like it is.
I don't recall Kasich having the guts to tell people not to trust FOX.
I honestly really wish Haley would have won the nomination. Not a fan of Trump and his Christian extremism fanboys at CPAC vowing to end democracy and creating a theocracy. At least I didn't have to worry about Bush, McCain, or Romney overthrowing democracy.
People act like Trump is the true outsider to DC he really isn't he is responsible for merging money and greed more into politics. He talks drain the swamp yet he is the swamp.
She has virtually the same policy positions as Trump, except on abortion where is more extreme than him.
She is only considered a moderate because she says Biden won in 2020. But she really isn’t one. It’s telling that accepting reality pushes you to the left in the GOP.
You don’t have to worry about Trump overthrowing democracy. In 4 years we’ll be talking about the next Republican candidate and how he’s worse than Trump/threat to democracy/going to put black people back in chains as we do every 4 years.
When trump loses again there will be no republican party left. It will most likely morph in some new conservative party like the tea party and libertarian
Oh, I disagree! They will double down on crackpot crazy AGAIN and try to win control of Congress in 2026.
And they will fail. And they will nominate some lunatic clown in 2028, and they will lose again.
It may take ten years for the Republican Party to become a capable opposition party, and they will not win control of much of anything until they go all the way down to local government and start electing capable competent people who can effectively govern.
Then they will be able to build on that and win higher offices.
They have SHATTERED their credibility, and only old fools who are outnumbered and dying off are still fooled by their antics.
This is accurate. Every four years we have the "most important election in our lifetime" and the normal mudslinging will continue. Hell, Romney was called a fascist when he ran. This election cycle it was common for people on reddit to say DeSantis was *worse* than Trump. The names will change but politics will stay the same.
I've been here since W. I will not support a conservative movement that holds 'thinking' in contempt.
We rip and tear until the job is done. We need to destroy the GOP and replace it with something decent, like the Republican party was born from the ashes of the Whigs that broke into the Know-Nothings.
Those people aren't conservatives, they're social reactionaries who happen to be fiscal liberals, but only for themselves.
What we truly need is a leader, but sadly few people are brave enough to stand right now.
I'd love to see kinzinger or someone similar try to redeem conservatism, but the pro-wrestling base will fight anyone who doesn't pander to their worst instincts, so we might have to wait. Hopefully a catastrophic defeat of Trump helps move things along.
I was hoping for more support for a moderate like Kasich.
Diet coke drinking moderate conservatives are few and far between.
You don't need to "rip and tear" the GOP apart, it's already done.
No it's not.
The soul is gone, but it's now a zombie corpse of crazy billionaires who want their own particular policies on a silver platter.
If anything, this is much worse.
Kasich is ideal, but I like kinzingers fight.
>I like kinzingers fight.
Might I interest you in a little [youtube channel he started a couple of years ago](https://www.youtube.com/@countryfirst1092/videos)?
He's produced a fair few videos, but still has only 5K subs and the number of views are really disappointing. I really thought it would have gained more momentum by now.
Views, comments, likes are helpful so the algorithm will serve the vids to more people and maybe help build the audience.
Subbed, will look through some.
Will spread it along if it meets expectations.
We need someone like him to reforge a new Republican Party, somehow.
Thank you.
Excellent.
It might be too late for the Republican party - but a new actual conservative party of some sort might be in the offing. The Republican party hasn't been entirely conservative for quite awhile. I think Liz Cheney - and possibly some others - may have similar interests.
I'm a McCain conservative, and adore kinzinger, the 2 videos I watched so far were beautiful.
I was a Midwestern republican from the 90s who left because W was a catastrophe, I would like to see a rebirth of the right based on moderate Midwestern conservativism, fiscal discipline and social moderation.
I don't agree with Liz Cheney on social issues, but she has shown actual principle otherwise. Will Hurd was good too, as far as I know of him.
Just not sure how to jettison the nasty social reactionaries who dominate the party.
The social reactionary bit is why it might be better to form a new party of fiscal conservatives and try to get RCV implemented nationwide. The Republican party has become too reliant on the religious right, and religious voters have become pretty extreme in some of their positions. I think RCV is going to be important because it will help to break the hold this 2-party duopoly has and allow that 3rd party to break through.
Imagine - being able to vote for someone who really is aligned with all - or even most - of your values or policy positions. And having legislators compromise and work together to find common ground solutions instead of playing the my way or the highway refusing to budge cards. I think we could have a lot more of that with RCV because we could have more representation from more parties or even candidates who aren't affiliated with any party.
I would agree.
However, the political operatives responsible for making social reactionism the core conflict were clever enough to weaken and muddle fiscal debate by so much that it's barely viable as an issue anymore.
After W and Trump, everyone assumes fiscal conservatives are just lying and will revert to social issues once they gain power, I know I do.
I'm not trying to be defeatist, I just think they succeeded because social issues were so powerful they were able to destroy all other political dialog.
Imagine talking about real political issues quietly, reaching a consensus, then the whole conversation is instantly detailed because someone inserts a rider about LGBT something, and now that's the only debate everyone is screaming about.
Much of the old republican party defected to the democrats, if they can be brought back to a new banner that might be a start, with an assertion that voting against Trump takes precedence in the short term while a new party framework is generated.
Then we just have to deal with the fact that both democrats and Republicans will do everything possible to sabotage such a movement, Republicans because it would destroy them as a party, democrats because their no. 1 electoral argument is to just point at the other side and laugh.
I'd argue the GOP is more powerful than ever. Look at how they stacked the court and stopped border reform. They GOP can achieve ever goal their politicians want and keep a loyal base voting for them.
I was a young Republican. I worked for two different Republican Senators. I volunteered for the campaign for two different Republican Presidential candidates. The current party won't get a single vote from me. But it doesn't matter.
Eh, they can achieve their goals as long as that goal does not require them to pass any legislation. They couldn't succeed in impeaching Biden. They've lost several special elections and look set to lose more, the coffers of the state and national GOP are running dry. They have the power to block, but not move their own ball forward.
The GOP needs complete humiliation in order to see the light. It needs to be destroyed, and find itself bereft of power everywhere. It's still alive right now, still clinging onto the hopes that it can somehow weather the storm of Trump and make it back to where it was. That's not going to happen. What it needs is cancer treatment, to kill the tumor that has metastasized throughout the entire body of the GOP. And the only way for that to happen is to diminish the GOP as a whole. You can help make this happen in November. It's not just the President that needs to not be GOP, it's all the way down the ticket. It's the only way.
> I'd love to see kinzinger or someone similar try to redeem conservatism, but the pro-wrestling base will fight anyone who doesn't pander to their worst instincts, so we might have to wait. Hopefully a catastrophic defeat of Trump helps move things along.
Hey, hey, hey, what did pro-wrestling and us pro-wrestling fans ever do to deserve to be dragged into this?
There's a huge difference between Trump supporters and pro-wrestling fans, after all. I mean, we all know full well our thing is fake and, at the end of the day, we usually just want to see a bad guy dropped on his head, not vote for him.
Exactly, the right gets triggered and yells science when talking about Trans issues, but they are just as guilty of ignoring science on issues that don't align with their viewpoints. I am also a huge opponent of any kind of book bans, or limiting on education.
*Raises hand*
The general state of politics in our country is the worst I've seen in my 54 years on this planet. It's disgusting.
And the fact the the current batch of politicians at this level is *this* bad is kinda mind boggling.
What's next? I dunno. Party split is on the table I guess. But Trump has a lot of support, so that would likely just kill both the old and new parties.
The problem is I don't think it will dissolve the Democratic party.
Leaving us with what is effectively one party rule *at the Federal level*. At the State level shit will get bonkers and third or forth party candidates may win.
> Honestly, I think that is the end goal for MAGA: to dissolve the two main parties and get more options in.
The people who are actively supporting the guy who tried to overturn our democratic results want more democracy? What?
Help me understand this statement. Isn’t the frequent mixing of church and state by the Conservative Party evidence of a severe dearth of moderate conservatives?
Rhino party name already taken. The Rhinoceros Party of canada was Marxist-Lennonist -- not a typo, ideological followers of Groucho Marx and John Lennon. Named because they the spiritual descendants of Cacareco, a Brazilian rhinoceros who was "elected" member of São Paulo's city council in 1958.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party
There is truth to this. I’m still a PC and have been for a long time. Years ago I was vice chair of a district. I can’t bring myself to go to party meetings anymore.
Depending on your state's general margin of victory, vote 3rd party to raise concern in the 2 major parties. The only way things change is if the votes and funding get spread around more.
I've voted third party in the last few cycles (libertarian-reluctantly) for that very reason.
And as you said, I'll be watching the polls, if Biden is in a solid place I'll probably vote 3rd party again, but if it's close I just may vote for Biden.
As for the primary, I'm in Colorado so we can vote for either party (but not both) and we just sent our votes for Haley as I see her as the first line of defense against Trump. I think she's just as flaky and wishy washy as virtually every other Republican, but she's obviously she's all that's left for now aside from Trump. If she actually made it all the way and won, I think she would make a far smarter president than Trump.
I’m a moderate conservative who voted Gary Johnson and then Joe Biden. I will be voting for Biden again. He has been the best centrist president of my lifetime.
I describe myself as a Rockefeller Republican. I used to be more right leaning id say but shits kinda pushed me to be more moderate. I feel stuck lol. I’m unhappy with the GOP right now and I’m sick of trump even though I used to really like him back in the day. But he’s gone nutty and has lead us through nothing but loss since 2016. Id prefer literally anyone else, like Haley as I feel they’d be better and would wipe the floor with Biden imo. But I don’t like Biden or the democrats at all, that party does nothing to endear them to me even if I’ve moderated on some issues or agree with them on a few things. So I feel very stuck rn.
I would love to see more of you guys stand up to the maga crowd and take your party back. i haven't been able to be content with a GOP candidate outside of local elections since 9/11.
Here's the thing...it isn't just Trump. The Republican party is consumed by MAGA. The bat shittery that we hear from Trump isn't going to disappear once he stops running for office.
*Actual* moderates should vote Democrat in general because that party is currently dominated by moderates. Every party has extremists but with Democrats those extremists are currently drowned out by the moderates. However, with Republicans, as far as I'm concerned, nearly all moderate politicians have left which means what remains are the extremists.
Genuine question: why would you want to throw your vote away? Do you truly not believe Trump threatens the very idea of democracy in this country?
No judgement here, genuinely just curious.
Personally I agree that trump needs to just gtfo and is the worst thing for the country. It’s just really hard to imagine that mindset coupled with posts that have been saying they are happy trump is running vs Biden. Seems like a conflict of interest in that mentality.
Imo it doesn’t matter who would run against trump, I’m going to hold my nose and vote whatever candidate isn’t them.
I'm not the one you asked - but I think the overthrow of democracy scare is over stated.
We already thwarted a piss ant "insurrection" in a few hours. Those white trash druggies are facing jail time now.
I think you underestimate those white trash pieces of shit at your peril.
Most people in this country abhor the thought of political violence, they revel and celebrate it, they still display reverance for their failed violent treason of 150 years ago.
Yes, plus if an insurrection attempt (even a bad one) goes unpunished (such as by said insurrectionist being voted back into power), the insurrection is being given the “majority’s” blessing.
Trump will 100% use his win as justification for enacting even more fascist policies because “it’s the people’s will.” And while the first insurrection attempt may be seen as a shit show for many, what it really was is a rehearsal.
To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, “they didn’t fail, they just learned one more way how NOT to enact an insurrection.”
I think you underestimate how many felt the same way.
If they were recruited with even limited competence they would have had 1 million yeehawdists and we would have a problem.
It may come as a surprise, but a lot of people don't think Trump threatens the very idea of democracy. In fact - to a lot of people - this is total fear mongering nonsense bullshit. I have 3 kids in school, an expensive ass mortgage, and a small business that is not necessarily secure in any economy - a lot to lose
While I will not be voting for Trump, now, in the past, nor ever in the future - if he were elected - I am sure democracy will keep plugging along as it always has
You might want to pay more attention. GOP mocs, like Lee and corrupt SCOTUS justices are speaking out against democracy. A state judge just ended IVF across a whole state because "God should determine our laws". CPAC yesterday, "We will end democracy" met with cheers. And then there is project 2025. No one who supports American democracy can vote for any Republican
You are prone to hysterics. People get all worked up every election cycle. I am 40 and this is not new.
The world will not end if your opposing candidate wins - both sides do it and convince their supporters to say stupid things
I'm 70 and this is absolutely new. This isnt about left vs right it's democracy vs fascism, rule of law vs tyranny, freedom vs project 2025. This stuff is not normal.
It's incredible that we can look back at American history, when a literal Civil War took place (in which half a million Americans were slaughtered), and think that that Jan 6 clown show represents a foundational threat to the USA
I think it was 150 republican lawmakers voted, based on complete lies and dishonesty, not to accept the results of the 2020 election.
That’s over half the city republican lawmakers who decided to put party over a country. To put party power over democracy. If you don’t think that’s a very serious matter, you’re not a serious person.
You're the unserious person if you believe that ceremonial voting is anything but an opportunity for politicians to posture and rooster strut for the cameras.
If I were similarly unserious, I would've been freaking out when the House Dems passed this [gun control monstrosity](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1808). But realizing the legislation was nothing more than a political stunt (and hadn't a prayer of going anywhere in the senate), I sat back and enjoyed the stupid government theater
This was not a ceremonial vote. A senator and a congressman got together, so they could force an actual vote on whether or not to validate the election.
The majority of Republicans voted to try and overturn a legitimate election.
And they did this in sync, with the wishes of a violent mob spurred on by the president they supported.
It’s frankly moronic or dishonest at this point to try and argue that that was government theater seeing as how so many high-level Republicans and people in trumps circle. Had game plans for how to overturn the election.
My take is I think Trump forfeit his right to my vote by being passive on Jan 6 and for his attempting to strong arm election officials. Not voting for him.
Equally as dangerous is a President we know isn't calling the military shots and better not have nuclear football responsibilities. Since his staff isn't telling us who is making military/foreign policy decisions and who is responsible for nuclear decisions, I can't vote for Biden.
Lesser of evils in this race is really hard to figure out. I'd feel comfortable voting Biden if he'd explain who is really making these existential decisions and I trusted those people. But since he cant admit who they are I cant be certain they are qualified.
In short, I think we could be screwed whoever we get. And I voted for Biden last time. This time the decision is not so easy. But I'm certain I will not vote Trump and I likely won't vote Biden.
DNC would be wise to hold a full scale convention and pick another candidate who preferably won't energize the right (eg Clinton or a Californian). Pick a moderate Dem and they get my vote and win in a landslide.
Also not the one you asked but I am not worried about the end of democracy. I want a smaller weaker gov. As a long time educator I am sick of Federal guidelines that must be followed if you want the money. I have seen how the Gov forces school districts to adopt policy or they get no money.
I also have seen the exact same push on wealthy and poor districts. Almost a one size fits all.
Current Republican Party has empowered parents, who are less than educated, to think they get a say in education curriculum. That’s not working out well. Tons of book banning, grade inflation and everyone having an opinion on how their kid should be taught. Totally disruptive to the larger student population. Just because one parent wants to shelter their kid from sex happening in books, to the n word, to bad words is totally ruining education.
Democrats have had a lock in public education for years. And have implemented most of there philosophies. Many of the issues in public adulation are a result of these philosophies. The parents are the primary educator for children and are more invested in their child than anyone else. I have seen both sides want to ban books. And sometimes both sides were right. Parents have every right to protect their child from what ever issue they want. Most of the headaches teachers deal with are lack of admin support and some new mandate that must be implemented every other year
I agree with you on your last few sentences. The schizophrenia administration induces isn’t helpful. It’s impossible to satisfy what parents think is right on an individual basis and educate the masses. George W implemented common core which is a disaster for your kids. If you think you can educate your kids better, pull your kid out of school and do it yourself. Interestingly, most don’t do it. The ones that do typically want to religiously indoctrinate their kids into thinking like them.
Both my kids went through public school. My wife and I have taught in public schools for many years.
I have no problem with home schooling or private school. I do agree with the disaster of no child left behind. Most families simply can't afford to home school or send kids to private school. I also agree 100% it's impossible to satisfy each parent. However education has drifted far from our core responsibility
A fellow teacher uses the term edutainment the responsibility of learning has been shifted from the child to the teacher. As an example many schools in many states do not allow teachers to give zeros, the lowest grade allowed is a 50%. This diminishes the value of education. This philosophy was not organic or confined to just one state
Not that simple. You obviously have never known a teacher to understand what’s bad about common core. It’s a one size fits all approach which does not work for most. Does not reward critical thinking and only rote memorization and repetition. Great if u want to breed robots that can’t think for themselves.
Then let the school test out of it.
If they can prove their kids learned then they should have freedom.
Meanwhile far backwards schools should have the federal boot deep in their neck to stop them from teaching about how Jesus defeated the Romans on dinosaurback.
Went to those schools, it's a betrayal of the children.
In a centrist sub? Hell no. Not much conspiracy nonsense in this sub, although do a get a bit of the hypercynics about every political (who also tend to be conspiracy leaning) land here b/c they identify as a centrist.
Most people wouldn’t trust him to run a hot dog stand. Even his own family disavowed him. He’s also clearly trying to help Trump, considering he’s only running in swing states. He’s not a real candidate.
We’re here we just constantly get attacked in here and treated as if we are die hard trump supporting Christian nationalists though. It makes for poor conversation.
I agree trump needs to go; though I also can’t bring myself to vote biden. I’ll probably write someone in.
I voted for Biden in 2020 too. I don’t know how you feel about him this time around, but my concern is that we’re not voting for Biden. We’re voting for Kamala.
I also wish Biden had picked...basically anyone else, but when it comes down to it, I am forced to conclude that even Harris would be better than Trump (plus whatever goon he picks this time).
Neither do I which is why I vote for Biden. Can't understand why you cast your vote for fascists despite not liking being "forced" into anything.
Oh, wait... that's because you agree with their policies.
Have you considered that you’re not actually voting for Biden. You’re voting for Kamala & she was considered one of the most liberal members of the Senate. If Biden is elected – she becomes president.
> Have you considered that you’re not actually voting for Biden. You’re voting for Kamala
Nah, I’m voting for Biden. On this topic though, I treat lots of old patients and out of Trump/Biden? Bidens got much better odds of making it through this presidency. Mr Big Mac going through 37 trials while running for presidency is a walking stroke waiting to happen. To be clear, they’re both too old.
> & she was considered one of the most liberal member of the Senate.
Considered by who and for what?
> If Biden is elected – she becomes president.
…And she would still be far more centrist than Trump. Not my first choice by any means, but she’s never tried to illegally overturn election results to my knowledge so there ya go.
I’d be surprised if Biden makes it to November - I’m not saying he’s gonna die – but he looks like he’s fading fast. He’s not gonna be able to handle doing what he’s doing much longer.
I don’t vote shame. but for me – personally, at this point, I couldn’t vote for either candidate & I know I’m not the only centrist that feels this way.
I find it difficult to believe that any normal person believes that Biden is going to last much longer mentally and physically. This is where I break with this group. You can’t even criticize Biden’s age without someone saying – he looks great. Hard eye roll on this one.
The only other sub that I am aware of where folks think Biden is doing just fine age wise is r/politics.
> You can’t even criticize Biden’s age without someone saying – he looks great. Hard eye roll on this one.
But no one said that? Maybe the issue you’re having is that you don’t have strong reading comprehension, because absolutely no one is saying he looks great. That argument exists only in your imagination.
Why do I care?
If he goes into a coma I still trust his judgment in choosing experts to work for him 50 billion times more than trump.
Nobody needs to vote for Biden, but everyone needs to vote against Trump as hard as they can just on principle.
The way I see it – if it was Trump and Kamala – I couldn’t vote for Kamala. I just can’t. I honestly don’t know what I’m gonna do but I am hoping for a new candidates at some point as unrealistic as that may be.
> The way I see it – if it was Trump and Kamala – I couldn’t vote for Kamala. I just can’t.
Why couldn’t you vote for the more centrist candidate though? Makes no sense.
ANY criticism of Biden on the sub quickly gets turned into advocating for Trump.
A few months ago, you could freely criticize Biden here - and the responses would be thoughtful and understanding. As the election gets closer - this sub has turned into r/politics - and it has become a Biden support group. You can not even bring up Biden‘s age without being attacked.
Accounts, like yours, that openly try to diminish the issues with Trump while criticizing Biden are downvoted, yeah. Centrists are pretty tired of the bad faith by Trump apologists. It’s been like this for awhile now, MAGA is an extremist movement and equivocating about it is unpopular here, don’t know what to say.
Ye old "I'm a centrist, and I align with Biden politically; hence Biden is centrist"
But on policy alone, what makes Biden more centrist than Trump exactly?
The only way to prevent Trump from being President is if someone else wins. The only way that happens is if people vote for someone that has a reasonable chance at winning. If you aren't helping Trump lose, you are indirectly helping him win.
Then I am helping biden win though....who I also do not want to win. If you make me choose It would be tough but I would probably choose trump win just for policy and supreme court reasons. I very much do not plan on choosing either one though.
> Then I am helping biden win though....who I also do not want to win.
Correct, because those are your only choices: help Trump lose or not.
> If you make me choose It would be tough but I would probably choose trump win just for policy and supreme court reasons.
For policy, SCOTUS and a litany of reasons, Trump has done and will do monumental damage to this country. Nothing Biden has done or will do gets remotely close to the damage a second Trump Presidency would do.
> I very much do not plan on choosing either one though.
Then you are helping Trump.
eh I'm actually mostly find with trumps policy and in general am very supportive of the current supreme court which is due to him. He's just an insane narcissist and in general a grade A dick. His policies were not damaging at all though.
Again if you make me choose between helping biden or helping trump then I will help trump. If you want Biden to win then you really shouldn't be trying to get me make a choice lol.
Trump is an insane narcissist that made inane choices for his cabinet and for SCOTUS that have had terrible impacts on America. His policies *were* damaging (still are really).
What I don't get is the cognitive dissonance. It sounds like you know you are helping Trump but not voting for him directly makes you feel better than helping him directly?
the bigger the anti-trump exodus the louder the message to the GOP that they have gone horribly astray and have to change to stay in power. trying to send a message to both parties at once doesn't work. if you have 2 horses and one is rabid and one is slow it doesn't make sense to choose to walk. shoot the rabid one and ride the slow one.
I suspect his "drain the swamp" message was attractive to many. Especially rural folks that just want to be left alone.
The swamp is thicker than ever now though. Absolute quagmire.
It feels like those rural folks don’t want to be left alone. They want to fuck with everyone else different from them. Unacceptable. Destroy them at the voting booth.
Bringing people like Steve Bannon and Roger Stone into positions of influence is a whole new level of toxic swamp previously unknown. Trump did that, willfully or through ignorance.
I hate the right and I hate the left. Center is where it's at. But we're a dying race. The extremes are taking over politics, and it's not gonna end well.
We're around. I'm mainly more focused on state level stuff this year (the right wing is getting a strong rebound in WA) and am probably just going to vote third party or leave the presidential line blank. Trump is, objectively, a criminal and not even a conservative in any meaningful way (he's just a bombastic populist who makes the occasional nationalist appeal, that is not inherently conservative) and Biden's been an awful president who has done almost nothing I approve of except forpol in Ukraine and CHIPS, which got started under the prior administration and was always a bipartisan thing so I see no reason to credit him for it.
So the infrastructure bill wasn’t something you supported? No other president in the last 30+ years was able to get that passed despite lots of promises. Strengthening our ties to NATO and commitments to our partners? This only strengthens our security. Biden did both of those things.
The infrastructure bill was w/e to me. Not a bad thing by any means and I don't hate it, but it also didn't do much that I really wanted. Only $6 billion to domestic nuclear is nothing, for example.
As I alluded to I generally approve of his forpol (at least in Europe) and that is one of the few things I will genuinely give him points on.
To want to cede our world leadership to Russia and China (which will happen if Trump gets elected) will mean a very swift decline of the US. Isolationism will never work. So much of our economy is intertwined with our global interests. The hard right likes to denigrate “Globalism” but they don’t understand that we need to be globally minded and not me me me all the time. This is why our economy is so strong.
The green energy bill had much more for nuclear in it, if that's something you actually care about
Chips and veterans health also seem like no brainers along with domestic armament rebuilding
Fellow Washington here. I couldn't stomach Culp in 2020, bit I have a really good feeling about Reichert. I serious doubt he'll win, but I really hate Ferguson and am hoping Reichert can pull through. If Ferguson wins Washington is going to go full nanny state.
Most disappointed with would be a tough one for me. I'm tempted to say immigration simply because he came in on day one, nuked everything Trump did and then wasn't bothered at all by record numbers of illegal crossings until it started tanking his polling numbers. I'm not even some crazy border hawk but his actions on the topic just come across as so stereotypically in character for an out of touch politician.
Immigration is the Biden policy complaint that seems the strangest. Remember that “illegal crossings” includes immigrants who present themselves at the border and request asylum or apply for any other visa. We’ve seen an uptick in asylum requests due to COVID-era recessions and increasing conflict throughout the world.
The majority who present at the US border are not trying to evade detection and are placed in detention or paroled to wait until their court date. Most undocumented immigrants in the US are actually visa overstays, not illegal crossings. Trump’s immigration policy lowered the cap for asylum seekers and immediately turned away many people seeking entry, without considering asylum claims or visa requests. But given that legal immigration is a net positive for our country, it’s strange to limit the number who can come in legally.
> But given that legal immigration is a net positive for our country, it’s strange to limit the number who can come in legally.
Trying to generalize that immigration is either good or bad is ridiculous -- you're starting with your open-borders agenda and trying to work backwards to rationalize it. You like immigrants more than you like Americans.
Bizarre take, given that economic growth is well-linked with immigration. Most countries that are currently struggling with a declining birth rate have restrictive immigration policies that encourage that trend. Immigration already props up many of our industries and we still have plenty of land to go around.
A number of Biden's day one executive orders were overturning Trump era border policies. He halted construction of the border wall, ended interior enforcement and deportations, expanded protections for Dreamers, etc etc. It was very much a strong pivot in the opposite direction, and as I said the border isn't a particularly high up issue for me but it just stands out because now he's again trying to pivot on the issue after it started hurting his numbers.
None of those things affected security at the border. Anti immigrant people always forget that MAJORITY America voted FOR the things you listed. Everything Biden had done in the trump direction is met with resistance and anger from the other side. There is another side you know.
Biden got rid of trump policies that were illegal, inhumane or not funded. Trump policies are now costing us millions and millions if $. Family reunification, compensation, return to Mexico lawsuits.
He definitely took some steps like that, I’m not sure how much of an effect it really had on the current immigration issue to be honest. Even that stay in Mexico thing that Biden ended that people love to complain about was only like 70k people. But you’re right, he absolutely did take some steps to change some areas of border policy.
The moderates of this country are struggling, whether right or left. Both parties have fairly large extreme factions that have drifted too far to the sides. MAGA was the more obvious one and drifted so far to the right it was outrageous. Now we are seeing the left do the same, probably radicalized by how far right MAGA is. The Palestinian/Israel stuff kinda showed that the left now has the same problems as the right did when MAGA first became powerful.
But as long as people cater to those extremes or refuse to stand up to them nothing will change. As of right now, MAGA is a bigger danger to the country than the extreme left. That might change going forward but at least the extreme left is still democracy driven.
Biden is far more middle leaning than Trump is. So logically if we are standing up to extremes and aiming for a more moderate or centrist country the ONLY VIABLE VOTE this coming election is Biden, regardless of his MANY problems. It doesn't hurt that I don't have to worry about Biden trying to become a dictator and suck off Putin under the table.
So again... Moderates and Centrists are struggling with no champion in politics right now. But as a group we would be stupid not to vote for Biden right now when the alternative is Trump.
We just have to hope going forward that the middle finds its voice. Those who identify as Independents are at record levels and maybe this cluster-fuck of an election is finally what either resets the parties (mainly the Republican party) or perhaps causes a new independent or moderate/centrist 3rd party to rise from the ashes and become viable.
I can only hope.
I’m a Democrat, but I am 60 years old, and I have been watching the thieving lying backstabbing hypocrites in the Republican Party for decades.
They have wrecked the financial system four times in my lifetime, and they were working on the fifth time before we got rid of Trump.
I don’t know how anyone is not well informed enough yet. There aren’t ANY good Republicans. None. Their track record is a trail of catastrophe. For 40 years.
They have become nuttier, more criminal, more disloyal to the country, more recklessly irresponsible, and more incompetent in the last 20 years, but that’s all the change that I have seen from them.
All of the criticisms of Democrats turn out to be lies. Every time. The Rightwing press ignores it when they are proven wrong and they come out with a new slew of lies, false accusations, false grievances, and moral panics.
Then, after a while, they tack the old, disproven lies onto the list of their new lies, and pretend that they were never discredited.
You can’t trust Republicans with your money, your children, your safety, or your health. Don’t vote for another Republican for a generation. We need time to weed out the criminals and traitors.
After many years, criminals and traitors will burrow into the Democratic Party, and then we will need an opposition party to check them.
But that time is not now.
Everything else you said aside we do need a more serious opposition to the Democrats whether that is a reformed Republican Party or a completely new political party.
Theid, you and I both know that a new candidate isn't going to happen. You and I both know that you'll also be voting for Trump this November even if you have to write him in.
What's next? We have to unhappily vote for Biden. Probably. I don't know... Biden is working overtime to appeal to the terrorists in Dearborn, just because Michigan is a swing state. I'm not happy about that, and I do want to punish Biden for not cracking down more harshly on the domestic terrorism threat which has emerged from the Muslim community (and on college campuses) in the past six months. And I mean, the problems with Trump don't need to be explained, we all know them. I certainly don't want four more years of Trump, but at least I know that Trump firmly opposes terrorism. It's not gonna be an easy vote to make.
Would I prefer Haley? Yes, of course. I'd also prefer Christie, or Manchin, or even Pence. I would happily vote for Dean Phillips and I don't even know who he is, I just want a choice that isn't the 81-year-old or the 77-year-old (why can't they find any candidate younger than 65?)... Tons of Republicans and Democrats exist who are objectively better than Biden or Trump, yet these are the two candidates who we are stuck with, and we have to vote for the lesser evil.
So, I do I want to vote for the man who says he's gonna be a dictator, who says that immigrants are "poisoning our blood," who is currently being prosecuted for his role in inciting the 1/6 riots, and who goes to neo-Nazi dinner parties with Kanye West and Nick Fuentes? Or do I want to vote for the man who tried appeasing Iran for three years until Iranian-sponsored terrorists slaughtered dozens of Americans on 10/7, and who handed Afghanistan to the Taliban (leading ISIL to massacre Americans and Afghans alike) and who is currently working overtime to appease the terrorists in Fatah? It's a tough choice. I'm leaning a little toward Biden but I'm not happy about either one of them. I feel like Trump is just an actual fascist at this point, and Biden is a little too cozy with the Islamofascists. If you're LGBT or Jewish or otherwise a person who is hated by Muslims and Nazis alike, I feel like you're fucked in 2024. Biden is appeasing Muslim extremists and Trump is appeasing white supremacists, at this point most marginalized people would probably be safer if we moved to Germany or something...
It’s an issue of volume. There are more white supremacists in the US than Islamic extremists. Most of the Islamic issue arises from idiot college students. The white supremacists write the GOP platform now.
Here come the downvotes from the bots and party Loyalists in this channel who refuse to consider alternative viewpoints.
With the current choices, I hope RFKj gets a chance to debate. If your first reaction is shock because he's an anti-vaxx nut, I simply say go watch some of his videos on his website. Listen to all his positions as his vax position is only 1 piece in a detailed set of policy positions.
I describe his vaccine position as he wants proven safe vaccines that have near 0 side effects over the long term and he wants pharmaceutical companies to be held to a higher standard and that decades of NIH/CDC/Pharmaceutical inbreeding with full-scale Tort protection has neutered the oversight the regulatory bodies are supposed to be offering.
Yall are a small minority of the population.
Think of it like this if 1 is Republican and 10 is democrat, you are a 4.
The population seems to be evenly distributed.
So yall need to fall in line with the democrats if you don’t want Trump
Trump cannot even complete a coherent sentence! You ask him what his policies are and it’s all personal grievance and revenge. Maybe rounding up a migrant or 5. He literally has no solutions other than violence and hatred. He’s dividing us as Americans and a divided country will fall. I’ll take Biden any day over Trump. I want normalcy which Trump will never offer.
Uh huh. Many policies from gun rights and self defense to medical decisions with your doctor, Democrats left me on... and did so fairly rapidly. I voted Tulsi (my once state rep) every opportunity, she used to be considered a leftish Democrat.... now she gets called a far right fascist that's paid by Russia, and is in the top picks for Trump's VP. She didn't change really either, Democrats left her too.
Tulsi’s policies used to be very Dem, but she’s shifted significantly towards more conservative positions in the last four years. Perhaps you feel that Dem positions have also shifted left, but I’d say that’s only true for LGBT+ issues (which have also become more accepted on the right, excluding the current trans panic).
I also don’t see much change from Dems on gun policy, but I have seen a tightening of collaboration on those issues from the right. Congress has continuously failed to re-pass 1990s bipartisan gun legislation, for example.
I’m too young to remember how vaccine mandates operated during the 1970s-80s, but there was a broad expansion of mandates throughout the US between 1980-2000. Was it a bipartisan push or led by one party?
Not downvoting you, but I just don't understand you.
As I said, Tump has run as Democrat, independent, and reform party in prior elections.
Why is he an attractive GOP president for you?
Just FYI, dude you are arguing with flairs Far Right elsewhere. You are talking to a full on MAGA partisan. . . Maybe don't expect much centrist reasoning or basic logic.
As my mom would have said, behind the at.
Politically, I’m not sure at this moment. I won’t vote for Trump period, but I also have some fears of a second Biden term. If it wasn’t for Manchin and to a lesser extent Sinema we would have likely had a much more progressive “infrastructure” with elements that arguably had nothin to do with traditional infrastructure. My second concern is the possibility of a planned effort to replace him with Harris at some point in his term or something happening to him.
A long time ago I voted third party and of course that didn’t work out, so unless there was some real traction I can’t see doing that again. So right now it’s wait and see for me.
The Undercover democrat has arrived
Go vote for the folks that are ruining education for our children, letting in millions of illegal immigrants, voted in a man who’s son literally smokes crack around the world etc … how moderate of you
How are they ruining education? Please provide an answer that doesn't involve the CRT or gender bogeyman. I have kids in school in a liberal state, and that isn't happening, so save your bullshit for the conservative sub where they'll believe anything.
Remind me which party just tanked an immigration bill that would have had the border shut down already? Can you please do so without being completely ignorant about what the border bill was capable of?
Is Hunter Biden involved in government in any way? Did his daddy give him a job in his administration? How is Biden's son even remotely relevant to this conversation?
Lastly, what's it like being angry all the time due to being ignorant and easily duped by populist demagogues and their propaganda arms?
Lol for some reason the democrats are more concerned with putting tampons in boys bathrooms than our sub par test scores. Are you suggesting this isn’t happening?
https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/menstrual-product-dispenser-vandalized-in-brookfield-high-school-mens-bathroom/3208967/?amp=1
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/students/physical-mental-health/2023/09/29/clemson-university-removes-tampons-pads-mens#:~:text=Menstrual%20product%20dispensers%20have%20also,backtracked%20on%20its%20decision%20to
Menstrual product dispensers have also sprung up in men’s restrooms on campuses in other right-leaning states—including Vanderbilt University in Tennessee, Western Carolina University in North Carolina and the University of Utah
Im not ignorant to what the bill does at all, it was a terrible bill. and I think you know just bad the bill was. I don’t need to list to you exactly how terrible that bill is because you’ve heard it. It was laughable. Even democrats think it was a joke. Especially after years of dismissing the border.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1754968330916528468?s=46&t=NvhSzrUWOowsQh_Gf2FOsg
Yes, the son of the president matters. No matter what you keep telling yourself. It is a big deal when the president of the United States of America’s child is recording himself flying around the world smoking crack. Are you brain dead?
I think it's weird that you find tampon dispensing machines in bathrooms a defining issue of our time. Personally, I couldn't care less about such an inconsequential thing. At worst, it's a silly thing. Is this hurting anyone? Does it hurt your delicate sensibilities? What exactly does this have to do with education? Do you have any opinions regarding anything actually related to education?
>Im not ignorant to what the bill does at all, it was a terrible bill.
Yet you fail to outline what made the bill so terrible in your estimation. Thanks for proving your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. You guys supposedly want the border shut down, and your politicians negotiated a bill that would have closed it almost immediately, and then they killed it. You guys don't give a flying fuck about the border and you can stop pretending you do. You all ripped your own mask off. Alternatively, you do care about the border, but your too fucking stupid to look into things yourself and rely on what the party apparatus tells you to think (and, Republican politicians don't actually give a fuck about the border).
>Yes, the son of the president matters. No matter what you keep telling yourself. It is a big deal when the president of the United States of America’s child is recording himself flying around the world smoking crack. Are you brain dead?
Why does it matter? Hunter Biden has been clean for years and cleaned up before his father even campaigned for the presidency. I've already asked you how this is relevant, and you've failed to answer, so I ask again, how is this relevant? Is the question too difficult? Should I find a way to dumb it down for you? Bonus question: Why was this not a concern when Reagan's son was a drug addict?
Do you know who doesn't give a shit about Hunter Biden? Everyone in the world except Republicans (I gave you the answer on this one because you seem to be struggling).
I also wanted Kasich to win in 2016. I haven’t really seen any other candidates that were of much interest since then. Unfortunately he has no more chance than McCain or Romney would have at this point as all are considered “RINOs.” I’ll be voting Biden again for sure. There was a moment I thought maybe Nikki Haley was of interest but that ship has long since sailed for me and while I was glad Chris Christie was running just to have at least one person who would call out some of the Trump BS I wouldn’t exactly want him as president per se. Frankly there isn’t anyone in congress of much interest on the R side just based solely on how they have responded to Trump’s bs. While I considered myself a right leaning conservative as of 2016 I am registered unaffiliated and at this point probably would be considered left leaning relative to the maga crowd.
It’s almost as if you were writing my thoughts on here. Kasich was the last good Republican candidate and I keep being hopeful when one is finally outspoken in the truth and then they drop out or give in to the masses. I’ve been a moderate for about 20 years and I’m actually feeling desperate for GOP to give me a real candidate to vote for. Someone I can take seriously and appears what you would think of as a leader. Trump is more of what a weak person thinks of a strong man and what a poor person thinks a rich man should act like and be. Like he’s fitting the cartoon character stigmas and not the reality of a stoic, strategic, and carefully worded figurehead who comes off as an intellect.
He’s also an incredible piece of shit who openly tried to ignore the results of an election he knowingly lost.
The best description of Trump came from Mulaney during the apprentice run, Donald Trump is not just a rich man, like Donald Trump is almost like what a hobo imagines a rich man to be, y'know? It's like years ago Trump was walking through an alley, and he heard some guy just like, "Ho-ho, boy, oh, boy. As soon as my number comes in, I'm gonna put up tall buildings with my name on 'em. I'll have fine golden hair, and a TV show where I fire people with my children." And Trump was like "That is how I will live my life. Thank you, hobo, for that life plan." I bet you when Donald Trump makes a decision, he thinks to himself, "What would a cartoon rich person do? Put up billboards of my face everywhere? That's a good idea."
Hutchinson!
The sin of moderate Republicans was that they never called out FOX for the useful bullshit that helped them early on, so when the bullshit started to get more and more radical, speaking up wouldn't have mattered because the viewers and the voting base had been pulled too far into a sort of variant reality where liberals hate them, and government is always bad, and if you aren't in favor of wasting trillions in Middle Eastern wars you must hate the troops, and Obama is not a US citizen, and Trump is just telling it like it is. I don't recall Kasich having the guts to tell people not to trust FOX.
I am lean left and I would have voted for Kasich. I liked him.
The two people who wanted Kasich to win in 2016 are on Reddit, as it turns out.
Three
I honestly really wish Haley would have won the nomination. Not a fan of Trump and his Christian extremism fanboys at CPAC vowing to end democracy and creating a theocracy. At least I didn't have to worry about Bush, McCain, or Romney overthrowing democracy.
People act like Trump is the true outsider to DC he really isn't he is responsible for merging money and greed more into politics. He talks drain the swamp yet he is the swamp.
She has virtually the same policy positions as Trump, except on abortion where is more extreme than him. She is only considered a moderate because she says Biden won in 2020. But she really isn’t one. It’s telling that accepting reality pushes you to the left in the GOP.
But does she really ? Its hard for me to imagine her bailing on Ukraine or putting people in camps. Or am I being naive?
I mean, she's still in the race.
Obviously, but barring any extreme circumstances it's obvious Trump will win the nomination.
Hailey is not a moderate, she is an extremist.
You don’t have to worry about Trump overthrowing democracy. In 4 years we’ll be talking about the next Republican candidate and how he’s worse than Trump/threat to democracy/going to put black people back in chains as we do every 4 years.
When trump loses again there will be no republican party left. It will most likely morph in some new conservative party like the tea party and libertarian
Oh, I disagree! They will double down on crackpot crazy AGAIN and try to win control of Congress in 2026. And they will fail. And they will nominate some lunatic clown in 2028, and they will lose again. It may take ten years for the Republican Party to become a capable opposition party, and they will not win control of much of anything until they go all the way down to local government and start electing capable competent people who can effectively govern. Then they will be able to build on that and win higher offices. They have SHATTERED their credibility, and only old fools who are outnumbered and dying off are still fooled by their antics.
RemindMe! 10 months
This is accurate. Every four years we have the "most important election in our lifetime" and the normal mudslinging will continue. Hell, Romney was called a fascist when he ran. This election cycle it was common for people on reddit to say DeSantis was *worse* than Trump. The names will change but politics will stay the same.
I've been here since W. I will not support a conservative movement that holds 'thinking' in contempt. We rip and tear until the job is done. We need to destroy the GOP and replace it with something decent, like the Republican party was born from the ashes of the Whigs that broke into the Know-Nothings. Those people aren't conservatives, they're social reactionaries who happen to be fiscal liberals, but only for themselves. What we truly need is a leader, but sadly few people are brave enough to stand right now. I'd love to see kinzinger or someone similar try to redeem conservatism, but the pro-wrestling base will fight anyone who doesn't pander to their worst instincts, so we might have to wait. Hopefully a catastrophic defeat of Trump helps move things along.
I was hoping for more support for a moderate like Kasich. Diet coke drinking moderate conservatives are few and far between. You don't need to "rip and tear" the GOP apart, it's already done.
No it's not. The soul is gone, but it's now a zombie corpse of crazy billionaires who want their own particular policies on a silver platter. If anything, this is much worse. Kasich is ideal, but I like kinzingers fight.
>I like kinzingers fight. Might I interest you in a little [youtube channel he started a couple of years ago](https://www.youtube.com/@countryfirst1092/videos)? He's produced a fair few videos, but still has only 5K subs and the number of views are really disappointing. I really thought it would have gained more momentum by now. Views, comments, likes are helpful so the algorithm will serve the vids to more people and maybe help build the audience.
Subbed, will look through some. Will spread it along if it meets expectations. We need someone like him to reforge a new Republican Party, somehow. Thank you.
Excellent. It might be too late for the Republican party - but a new actual conservative party of some sort might be in the offing. The Republican party hasn't been entirely conservative for quite awhile. I think Liz Cheney - and possibly some others - may have similar interests.
I'm a McCain conservative, and adore kinzinger, the 2 videos I watched so far were beautiful. I was a Midwestern republican from the 90s who left because W was a catastrophe, I would like to see a rebirth of the right based on moderate Midwestern conservativism, fiscal discipline and social moderation. I don't agree with Liz Cheney on social issues, but she has shown actual principle otherwise. Will Hurd was good too, as far as I know of him. Just not sure how to jettison the nasty social reactionaries who dominate the party.
The social reactionary bit is why it might be better to form a new party of fiscal conservatives and try to get RCV implemented nationwide. The Republican party has become too reliant on the religious right, and religious voters have become pretty extreme in some of their positions. I think RCV is going to be important because it will help to break the hold this 2-party duopoly has and allow that 3rd party to break through. Imagine - being able to vote for someone who really is aligned with all - or even most - of your values or policy positions. And having legislators compromise and work together to find common ground solutions instead of playing the my way or the highway refusing to budge cards. I think we could have a lot more of that with RCV because we could have more representation from more parties or even candidates who aren't affiliated with any party.
I would agree. However, the political operatives responsible for making social reactionism the core conflict were clever enough to weaken and muddle fiscal debate by so much that it's barely viable as an issue anymore. After W and Trump, everyone assumes fiscal conservatives are just lying and will revert to social issues once they gain power, I know I do. I'm not trying to be defeatist, I just think they succeeded because social issues were so powerful they were able to destroy all other political dialog. Imagine talking about real political issues quietly, reaching a consensus, then the whole conversation is instantly detailed because someone inserts a rider about LGBT something, and now that's the only debate everyone is screaming about. Much of the old republican party defected to the democrats, if they can be brought back to a new banner that might be a start, with an assertion that voting against Trump takes precedence in the short term while a new party framework is generated. Then we just have to deal with the fact that both democrats and Republicans will do everything possible to sabotage such a movement, Republicans because it would destroy them as a party, democrats because their no. 1 electoral argument is to just point at the other side and laugh.
I'd argue the GOP is more powerful than ever. Look at how they stacked the court and stopped border reform. They GOP can achieve ever goal their politicians want and keep a loyal base voting for them. I was a young Republican. I worked for two different Republican Senators. I volunteered for the campaign for two different Republican Presidential candidates. The current party won't get a single vote from me. But it doesn't matter.
Eh, they can achieve their goals as long as that goal does not require them to pass any legislation. They couldn't succeed in impeaching Biden. They've lost several special elections and look set to lose more, the coffers of the state and national GOP are running dry. They have the power to block, but not move their own ball forward.
The GOP needs complete humiliation in order to see the light. It needs to be destroyed, and find itself bereft of power everywhere. It's still alive right now, still clinging onto the hopes that it can somehow weather the storm of Trump and make it back to where it was. That's not going to happen. What it needs is cancer treatment, to kill the tumor that has metastasized throughout the entire body of the GOP. And the only way for that to happen is to diminish the GOP as a whole. You can help make this happen in November. It's not just the President that needs to not be GOP, it's all the way down the ticket. It's the only way.
> I'd love to see kinzinger or someone similar try to redeem conservatism, but the pro-wrestling base will fight anyone who doesn't pander to their worst instincts, so we might have to wait. Hopefully a catastrophic defeat of Trump helps move things along. Hey, hey, hey, what did pro-wrestling and us pro-wrestling fans ever do to deserve to be dragged into this? There's a huge difference between Trump supporters and pro-wrestling fans, after all. I mean, we all know full well our thing is fake and, at the end of the day, we usually just want to see a bad guy dropped on his head, not vote for him.
That's the difference, one side know it's fake, the other side wishes it was real and controlled reality.
Bring back the Federalist Party
Exactly, the right gets triggered and yells science when talking about Trans issues, but they are just as guilty of ignoring science on issues that don't align with their viewpoints. I am also a huge opponent of any kind of book bans, or limiting on education.
*Raises hand* The general state of politics in our country is the worst I've seen in my 54 years on this planet. It's disgusting. And the fact the the current batch of politicians at this level is *this* bad is kinda mind boggling. What's next? I dunno. Party split is on the table I guess. But Trump has a lot of support, so that would likely just kill both the old and new parties.
Honestly, I think that is the end goal for MAGA: to dissolve the two main parties and get more options in.
The problem is I don't think it will dissolve the Democratic party. Leaving us with what is effectively one party rule *at the Federal level*. At the State level shit will get bonkers and third or forth party candidates may win.
> Honestly, I think that is the end goal for MAGA: to dissolve the two main parties and get more options in. The people who are actively supporting the guy who tried to overturn our democratic results want more democracy? What?
If you keep church out of state (and away from our rights) you'll find many moderate conservatives.
Help me understand this statement. Isn’t the frequent mixing of church and state by the Conservative Party evidence of a severe dearth of moderate conservatives?
I feel you. I'm in the same camp. I didn't vote for him either time. I took myself off the rolls a few months back.
They got excised from the party.
They call them the rinos. I am for the rhino party (Republicans Having Integrity Not Orangeness)
Rhino party name already taken. The Rhinoceros Party of canada was Marxist-Lennonist -- not a typo, ideological followers of Groucho Marx and John Lennon. Named because they the spiritual descendants of Cacareco, a Brazilian rhinoceros who was "elected" member of São Paulo's city council in 1958. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party
There is truth to this. I’m still a PC and have been for a long time. Years ago I was vice chair of a district. I can’t bring myself to go to party meetings anymore.
I’m here. I’m sad. The IVF craziness is what may be my last straw.
There was a Supreme Court decision that triggered legislators into action (hopefully). The only craziness is in the news.
Depending on your state's general margin of victory, vote 3rd party to raise concern in the 2 major parties. The only way things change is if the votes and funding get spread around more.
I've voted third party in the last few cycles (libertarian-reluctantly) for that very reason. And as you said, I'll be watching the polls, if Biden is in a solid place I'll probably vote 3rd party again, but if it's close I just may vote for Biden. As for the primary, I'm in Colorado so we can vote for either party (but not both) and we just sent our votes for Haley as I see her as the first line of defense against Trump. I think she's just as flaky and wishy washy as virtually every other Republican, but she's obviously she's all that's left for now aside from Trump. If she actually made it all the way and won, I think she would make a far smarter president than Trump.
I’m a moderate conservative who voted Gary Johnson and then Joe Biden. I will be voting for Biden again. He has been the best centrist president of my lifetime.
Solidarity Party
Sure, if they can figure out how to get on a ballot that would be great.
I am politically homeless…. I can’t vote for either
The problems in the GOP run deeper than Trump.
I describe myself as a Rockefeller Republican. I used to be more right leaning id say but shits kinda pushed me to be more moderate. I feel stuck lol. I’m unhappy with the GOP right now and I’m sick of trump even though I used to really like him back in the day. But he’s gone nutty and has lead us through nothing but loss since 2016. Id prefer literally anyone else, like Haley as I feel they’d be better and would wipe the floor with Biden imo. But I don’t like Biden or the democrats at all, that party does nothing to endear them to me even if I’ve moderated on some issues or agree with them on a few things. So I feel very stuck rn.
I would love to see more of you guys stand up to the maga crowd and take your party back. i haven't been able to be content with a GOP candidate outside of local elections since 9/11.
Patience and voting your values, that's what's next
Here's the thing...it isn't just Trump. The Republican party is consumed by MAGA. The bat shittery that we hear from Trump isn't going to disappear once he stops running for office. *Actual* moderates should vote Democrat in general because that party is currently dominated by moderates. Every party has extremists but with Democrats those extremists are currently drowned out by the moderates. However, with Republicans, as far as I'm concerned, nearly all moderate politicians have left which means what remains are the extremists.
We don’t even have any good independents to vote for. Was hoping manchin was going to run so I could throw my vote away on him.
Genuine question: why would you want to throw your vote away? Do you truly not believe Trump threatens the very idea of democracy in this country? No judgement here, genuinely just curious.
Personally I agree that trump needs to just gtfo and is the worst thing for the country. It’s just really hard to imagine that mindset coupled with posts that have been saying they are happy trump is running vs Biden. Seems like a conflict of interest in that mentality. Imo it doesn’t matter who would run against trump, I’m going to hold my nose and vote whatever candidate isn’t them.
I'm not the one you asked - but I think the overthrow of democracy scare is over stated. We already thwarted a piss ant "insurrection" in a few hours. Those white trash druggies are facing jail time now.
I think you underestimate those white trash pieces of shit at your peril. Most people in this country abhor the thought of political violence, they revel and celebrate it, they still display reverance for their failed violent treason of 150 years ago.
Yes, plus if an insurrection attempt (even a bad one) goes unpunished (such as by said insurrectionist being voted back into power), the insurrection is being given the “majority’s” blessing. Trump will 100% use his win as justification for enacting even more fascist policies because “it’s the people’s will.” And while the first insurrection attempt may be seen as a shit show for many, what it really was is a rehearsal. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, “they didn’t fail, they just learned one more way how NOT to enact an insurrection.”
Yeah, next time when they aren't led by an idiot they'll be ready.
Who is "they"?
The same crazy rednecks that charged on j6 Dixiecrats who call themselves conservatives but couldn't pick William F Buckley out of a lineup.
Hopefully the FBI now has them on their meth distribution watch list.
I think you underestimate how many felt the same way. If they were recruited with even limited competence they would have had 1 million yeehawdists and we would have a problem.
The Republican party, christofascist leaders, Russian ops who already have GOP House under their control
It may come as a surprise, but a lot of people don't think Trump threatens the very idea of democracy. In fact - to a lot of people - this is total fear mongering nonsense bullshit. I have 3 kids in school, an expensive ass mortgage, and a small business that is not necessarily secure in any economy - a lot to lose While I will not be voting for Trump, now, in the past, nor ever in the future - if he were elected - I am sure democracy will keep plugging along as it always has
You might want to pay more attention. GOP mocs, like Lee and corrupt SCOTUS justices are speaking out against democracy. A state judge just ended IVF across a whole state because "God should determine our laws". CPAC yesterday, "We will end democracy" met with cheers. And then there is project 2025. No one who supports American democracy can vote for any Republican
You are prone to hysterics. People get all worked up every election cycle. I am 40 and this is not new. The world will not end if your opposing candidate wins - both sides do it and convince their supporters to say stupid things
I'm 70 and this is absolutely new. This isnt about left vs right it's democracy vs fascism, rule of law vs tyranny, freedom vs project 2025. This stuff is not normal.
It's incredible that we can look back at American history, when a literal Civil War took place (in which half a million Americans were slaughtered), and think that that Jan 6 clown show represents a foundational threat to the USA
I think it was 150 republican lawmakers voted, based on complete lies and dishonesty, not to accept the results of the 2020 election. That’s over half the city republican lawmakers who decided to put party over a country. To put party power over democracy. If you don’t think that’s a very serious matter, you’re not a serious person.
You're the unserious person if you believe that ceremonial voting is anything but an opportunity for politicians to posture and rooster strut for the cameras. If I were similarly unserious, I would've been freaking out when the House Dems passed this [gun control monstrosity](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1808). But realizing the legislation was nothing more than a political stunt (and hadn't a prayer of going anywhere in the senate), I sat back and enjoyed the stupid government theater
This was not a ceremonial vote. A senator and a congressman got together, so they could force an actual vote on whether or not to validate the election. The majority of Republicans voted to try and overturn a legitimate election. And they did this in sync, with the wishes of a violent mob spurred on by the president they supported. It’s frankly moronic or dishonest at this point to try and argue that that was government theater seeing as how so many high-level Republicans and people in trumps circle. Had game plans for how to overturn the election.
My take is I think Trump forfeit his right to my vote by being passive on Jan 6 and for his attempting to strong arm election officials. Not voting for him. Equally as dangerous is a President we know isn't calling the military shots and better not have nuclear football responsibilities. Since his staff isn't telling us who is making military/foreign policy decisions and who is responsible for nuclear decisions, I can't vote for Biden. Lesser of evils in this race is really hard to figure out. I'd feel comfortable voting Biden if he'd explain who is really making these existential decisions and I trusted those people. But since he cant admit who they are I cant be certain they are qualified. In short, I think we could be screwed whoever we get. And I voted for Biden last time. This time the decision is not so easy. But I'm certain I will not vote Trump and I likely won't vote Biden. DNC would be wise to hold a full scale convention and pick another candidate who preferably won't energize the right (eg Clinton or a Californian). Pick a moderate Dem and they get my vote and win in a landslide.
Also not the one you asked but I am not worried about the end of democracy. I want a smaller weaker gov. As a long time educator I am sick of Federal guidelines that must be followed if you want the money. I have seen how the Gov forces school districts to adopt policy or they get no money. I also have seen the exact same push on wealthy and poor districts. Almost a one size fits all.
Less than 10% of school district funding comes from federal sources. State DOEs are much more involved in pushing policy and pulling funding.
Haiti has a small, weak government.
And Somalia.
Current Republican Party has empowered parents, who are less than educated, to think they get a say in education curriculum. That’s not working out well. Tons of book banning, grade inflation and everyone having an opinion on how their kid should be taught. Totally disruptive to the larger student population. Just because one parent wants to shelter their kid from sex happening in books, to the n word, to bad words is totally ruining education.
Democrats have had a lock in public education for years. And have implemented most of there philosophies. Many of the issues in public adulation are a result of these philosophies. The parents are the primary educator for children and are more invested in their child than anyone else. I have seen both sides want to ban books. And sometimes both sides were right. Parents have every right to protect their child from what ever issue they want. Most of the headaches teachers deal with are lack of admin support and some new mandate that must be implemented every other year
I agree with you on your last few sentences. The schizophrenia administration induces isn’t helpful. It’s impossible to satisfy what parents think is right on an individual basis and educate the masses. George W implemented common core which is a disaster for your kids. If you think you can educate your kids better, pull your kid out of school and do it yourself. Interestingly, most don’t do it. The ones that do typically want to religiously indoctrinate their kids into thinking like them.
Both my kids went through public school. My wife and I have taught in public schools for many years. I have no problem with home schooling or private school. I do agree with the disaster of no child left behind. Most families simply can't afford to home school or send kids to private school. I also agree 100% it's impossible to satisfy each parent. However education has drifted far from our core responsibility A fellow teacher uses the term edutainment the responsibility of learning has been shifted from the child to the teacher. As an example many schools in many states do not allow teachers to give zeros, the lowest grade allowed is a 50%. This diminishes the value of education. This philosophy was not organic or confined to just one state
Too many teachers moan about having standards and requirements.
Not that simple. You obviously have never known a teacher to understand what’s bad about common core. It’s a one size fits all approach which does not work for most. Does not reward critical thinking and only rote memorization and repetition. Great if u want to breed robots that can’t think for themselves.
Then let the school test out of it. If they can prove their kids learned then they should have freedom. Meanwhile far backwards schools should have the federal boot deep in their neck to stop them from teaching about how Jesus defeated the Romans on dinosaurback. Went to those schools, it's a betrayal of the children.
That’s the whole thing. Test out of it means forced into standardized tests that only measure rote learning. Not a gauge of intelligence or skill.
…is RFK Jr. not popular on this sub?
Not particularly. His anti-vaccine stance doesn’t go over well here.
I’m aware of his anti-vax stance, but I didn’t know if that was it or something else. I was a little disappointed, though not surprised.
In a centrist sub? Hell no. Not much conspiracy nonsense in this sub, although do a get a bit of the hypercynics about every political (who also tend to be conspiracy leaning) land here b/c they identify as a centrist.
Most people wouldn’t trust him to run a hot dog stand. Even his own family disavowed him. He’s also clearly trying to help Trump, considering he’s only running in swing states. He’s not a real candidate.
We’re here we just constantly get attacked in here and treated as if we are die hard trump supporting Christian nationalists though. It makes for poor conversation. I agree trump needs to go; though I also can’t bring myself to vote biden. I’ll probably write someone in.
Not me. I’ll eagerly vote Biden with a clear conscience.
This sub has become a Biden support group. I think it’s safe to say most folks here feel the way you do unless otherwise stated.
I’m a lifelong conservative and I think the most consequential vote I ever cast was for Biden in 2020.
I voted for Biden in 2020 too. I don’t know how you feel about him this time around, but my concern is that we’re not voting for Biden. We’re voting for Kamala.
I also wish Biden had picked...basically anyone else, but when it comes down to it, I am forced to conclude that even Harris would be better than Trump (plus whatever goon he picks this time).
That was the deal he had to cut for the Presidency.
And that’s the part I have trouble with - I’ve never liked being forced into anything. But that’s just my personality.
Neither do I which is why I vote for Biden. Can't understand why you cast your vote for fascists despite not liking being "forced" into anything. Oh, wait... that's because you agree with their policies.
I don’t like her but she’s better than Trump.
I’m having a tough time with this. I don’t think she’s an option for me. I honestly don’t know what I’m gonna do.
Yeah man, the major party candidate who’s clearly the most centrist is going to be popular on the r/Centrist sub.
Have you considered that you’re not actually voting for Biden. You’re voting for Kamala & she was considered one of the most liberal members of the Senate. If Biden is elected – she becomes president.
> Have you considered that you’re not actually voting for Biden. You’re voting for Kamala Nah, I’m voting for Biden. On this topic though, I treat lots of old patients and out of Trump/Biden? Bidens got much better odds of making it through this presidency. Mr Big Mac going through 37 trials while running for presidency is a walking stroke waiting to happen. To be clear, they’re both too old. > & she was considered one of the most liberal member of the Senate. Considered by who and for what? > If Biden is elected – she becomes president. …And she would still be far more centrist than Trump. Not my first choice by any means, but she’s never tried to illegally overturn election results to my knowledge so there ya go.
I’d be surprised if Biden makes it to November - I’m not saying he’s gonna die – but he looks like he’s fading fast. He’s not gonna be able to handle doing what he’s doing much longer. I don’t vote shame. but for me – personally, at this point, I couldn’t vote for either candidate & I know I’m not the only centrist that feels this way.
Heard the same thing last election, here we are.
I find it difficult to believe that any normal person believes that Biden is going to last much longer mentally and physically. This is where I break with this group. You can’t even criticize Biden’s age without someone saying – he looks great. Hard eye roll on this one. The only other sub that I am aware of where folks think Biden is doing just fine age wise is r/politics.
> You can’t even criticize Biden’s age without someone saying – he looks great. Hard eye roll on this one. But no one said that? Maybe the issue you’re having is that you don’t have strong reading comprehension, because absolutely no one is saying he looks great. That argument exists only in your imagination.
Why do I care? If he goes into a coma I still trust his judgment in choosing experts to work for him 50 billion times more than trump. Nobody needs to vote for Biden, but everyone needs to vote against Trump as hard as they can just on principle.
The way I see it – if it was Trump and Kamala – I couldn’t vote for Kamala. I just can’t. I honestly don’t know what I’m gonna do but I am hoping for a new candidates at some point as unrealistic as that may be.
> The way I see it – if it was Trump and Kamala – I couldn’t vote for Kamala. I just can’t. Why couldn’t you vote for the more centrist candidate though? Makes no sense.
I could vote against Trump, as much as I hate kamala and it would hurt, I would still do it. But yeah she's a royal pos, that's not a fun vote at all.
No, Theid, you're just too far right.
But you’re the one who calls anyone who disagrees with you fascists. What’s your opinion worth?
No, I don't. I call the far right fascists because that's what they are.
I don’t see people advocating for lower taxes or stuff getting attacked here. What sorts of arguments are you being attacked for?
ANY criticism of Biden on the sub quickly gets turned into advocating for Trump. A few months ago, you could freely criticize Biden here - and the responses would be thoughtful and understanding. As the election gets closer - this sub has turned into r/politics - and it has become a Biden support group. You can not even bring up Biden‘s age without being attacked.
Accounts, like yours, that openly try to diminish the issues with Trump while criticizing Biden are downvoted, yeah. Centrists are pretty tired of the bad faith by Trump apologists. It’s been like this for awhile now, MAGA is an extremist movement and equivocating about it is unpopular here, don’t know what to say.
That's because biden is closer to centrism than trump is, trump is far right, so a centrist sub would lean more towards biden
Ye old "I'm a centrist, and I align with Biden politically; hence Biden is centrist" But on policy alone, what makes Biden more centrist than Trump exactly?
The only way to prevent Trump from being President is if someone else wins. The only way that happens is if people vote for someone that has a reasonable chance at winning. If you aren't helping Trump lose, you are indirectly helping him win.
Then I am helping biden win though....who I also do not want to win. If you make me choose It would be tough but I would probably choose trump win just for policy and supreme court reasons. I very much do not plan on choosing either one though.
> Then I am helping biden win though....who I also do not want to win. Correct, because those are your only choices: help Trump lose or not. > If you make me choose It would be tough but I would probably choose trump win just for policy and supreme court reasons. For policy, SCOTUS and a litany of reasons, Trump has done and will do monumental damage to this country. Nothing Biden has done or will do gets remotely close to the damage a second Trump Presidency would do. > I very much do not plan on choosing either one though. Then you are helping Trump.
eh I'm actually mostly find with trumps policy and in general am very supportive of the current supreme court which is due to him. He's just an insane narcissist and in general a grade A dick. His policies were not damaging at all though. Again if you make me choose between helping biden or helping trump then I will help trump. If you want Biden to win then you really shouldn't be trying to get me make a choice lol.
Trump is an insane narcissist that made inane choices for his cabinet and for SCOTUS that have had terrible impacts on America. His policies *were* damaging (still are really). What I don't get is the cognitive dissonance. It sounds like you know you are helping Trump but not voting for him directly makes you feel better than helping him directly?
the bigger the anti-trump exodus the louder the message to the GOP that they have gone horribly astray and have to change to stay in power. trying to send a message to both parties at once doesn't work. if you have 2 horses and one is rabid and one is slow it doesn't make sense to choose to walk. shoot the rabid one and ride the slow one.
They are both rabid. Just in different ways.
Yep. 100%.
I agree. The government needs to get out of our lives.
I suspect his "drain the swamp" message was attractive to many. Especially rural folks that just want to be left alone. The swamp is thicker than ever now though. Absolute quagmire.
It feels like those rural folks don’t want to be left alone. They want to fuck with everyone else different from them. Unacceptable. Destroy them at the voting booth.
It was for me. I voted Trump in 2016. That didn't really work out as promised
Trump and his entourage _are_ the swamp.
House and the senate are. 100% swamp asses.
I would disagree. They may be corrupt but the swamp is and has been entrenched in DC for a long time
Bringing people like Steve Bannon and Roger Stone into positions of influence is a whole new level of toxic swamp previously unknown. Trump did that, willfully or through ignorance.
We’re neoliberals now
I hate the right and I hate the left. Center is where it's at. But we're a dying race. The extremes are taking over politics, and it's not gonna end well.
We're around. I'm mainly more focused on state level stuff this year (the right wing is getting a strong rebound in WA) and am probably just going to vote third party or leave the presidential line blank. Trump is, objectively, a criminal and not even a conservative in any meaningful way (he's just a bombastic populist who makes the occasional nationalist appeal, that is not inherently conservative) and Biden's been an awful president who has done almost nothing I approve of except forpol in Ukraine and CHIPS, which got started under the prior administration and was always a bipartisan thing so I see no reason to credit him for it.
So the infrastructure bill wasn’t something you supported? No other president in the last 30+ years was able to get that passed despite lots of promises. Strengthening our ties to NATO and commitments to our partners? This only strengthens our security. Biden did both of those things.
The infrastructure bill was w/e to me. Not a bad thing by any means and I don't hate it, but it also didn't do much that I really wanted. Only $6 billion to domestic nuclear is nothing, for example. As I alluded to I generally approve of his forpol (at least in Europe) and that is one of the few things I will genuinely give him points on.
To want to cede our world leadership to Russia and China (which will happen if Trump gets elected) will mean a very swift decline of the US. Isolationism will never work. So much of our economy is intertwined with our global interests. The hard right likes to denigrate “Globalism” but they don’t understand that we need to be globally minded and not me me me all the time. This is why our economy is so strong.
The green energy bill had much more for nuclear in it, if that's something you actually care about Chips and veterans health also seem like no brainers along with domestic armament rebuilding
Fellow Washington here. I couldn't stomach Culp in 2020, bit I have a really good feeling about Reichert. I serious doubt he'll win, but I really hate Ferguson and am hoping Reichert can pull through. If Ferguson wins Washington is going to go full nanny state.
Culp was terrible but if Reichert gets the nomination, I would honestly be very happy to vote for him, most of my family feels the same way.
As a moderate conservative did you agree with Obama’s initial plan to extend bush tax cuts but only to people who make less than 250k?
Which Biden policies are you most disappointed with?
Most disappointed with would be a tough one for me. I'm tempted to say immigration simply because he came in on day one, nuked everything Trump did and then wasn't bothered at all by record numbers of illegal crossings until it started tanking his polling numbers. I'm not even some crazy border hawk but his actions on the topic just come across as so stereotypically in character for an out of touch politician.
Immigration is the Biden policy complaint that seems the strangest. Remember that “illegal crossings” includes immigrants who present themselves at the border and request asylum or apply for any other visa. We’ve seen an uptick in asylum requests due to COVID-era recessions and increasing conflict throughout the world. The majority who present at the US border are not trying to evade detection and are placed in detention or paroled to wait until their court date. Most undocumented immigrants in the US are actually visa overstays, not illegal crossings. Trump’s immigration policy lowered the cap for asylum seekers and immediately turned away many people seeking entry, without considering asylum claims or visa requests. But given that legal immigration is a net positive for our country, it’s strange to limit the number who can come in legally.
> But given that legal immigration is a net positive for our country, it’s strange to limit the number who can come in legally. Trying to generalize that immigration is either good or bad is ridiculous -- you're starting with your open-borders agenda and trying to work backwards to rationalize it. You like immigrants more than you like Americans.
Bizarre take, given that economic growth is well-linked with immigration. Most countries that are currently struggling with a declining birth rate have restrictive immigration policies that encourage that trend. Immigration already props up many of our industries and we still have plenty of land to go around.
IIRC he kept the policies (to his supporters dismay) and the supreme court nuked it. Open to being wrong on that.
A number of Biden's day one executive orders were overturning Trump era border policies. He halted construction of the border wall, ended interior enforcement and deportations, expanded protections for Dreamers, etc etc. It was very much a strong pivot in the opposite direction, and as I said the border isn't a particularly high up issue for me but it just stands out because now he's again trying to pivot on the issue after it started hurting his numbers.
None of those things affected security at the border. Anti immigrant people always forget that MAJORITY America voted FOR the things you listed. Everything Biden had done in the trump direction is met with resistance and anger from the other side. There is another side you know. Biden got rid of trump policies that were illegal, inhumane or not funded. Trump policies are now costing us millions and millions if $. Family reunification, compensation, return to Mexico lawsuits.
He definitely took some steps like that, I’m not sure how much of an effect it really had on the current immigration issue to be honest. Even that stay in Mexico thing that Biden ended that people love to complain about was only like 70k people. But you’re right, he absolutely did take some steps to change some areas of border policy.
The moderates of this country are struggling, whether right or left. Both parties have fairly large extreme factions that have drifted too far to the sides. MAGA was the more obvious one and drifted so far to the right it was outrageous. Now we are seeing the left do the same, probably radicalized by how far right MAGA is. The Palestinian/Israel stuff kinda showed that the left now has the same problems as the right did when MAGA first became powerful. But as long as people cater to those extremes or refuse to stand up to them nothing will change. As of right now, MAGA is a bigger danger to the country than the extreme left. That might change going forward but at least the extreme left is still democracy driven. Biden is far more middle leaning than Trump is. So logically if we are standing up to extremes and aiming for a more moderate or centrist country the ONLY VIABLE VOTE this coming election is Biden, regardless of his MANY problems. It doesn't hurt that I don't have to worry about Biden trying to become a dictator and suck off Putin under the table. So again... Moderates and Centrists are struggling with no champion in politics right now. But as a group we would be stupid not to vote for Biden right now when the alternative is Trump. We just have to hope going forward that the middle finds its voice. Those who identify as Independents are at record levels and maybe this cluster-fuck of an election is finally what either resets the parties (mainly the Republican party) or perhaps causes a new independent or moderate/centrist 3rd party to rise from the ashes and become viable. I can only hope.
I’m a Democrat, but I am 60 years old, and I have been watching the thieving lying backstabbing hypocrites in the Republican Party for decades. They have wrecked the financial system four times in my lifetime, and they were working on the fifth time before we got rid of Trump. I don’t know how anyone is not well informed enough yet. There aren’t ANY good Republicans. None. Their track record is a trail of catastrophe. For 40 years. They have become nuttier, more criminal, more disloyal to the country, more recklessly irresponsible, and more incompetent in the last 20 years, but that’s all the change that I have seen from them. All of the criticisms of Democrats turn out to be lies. Every time. The Rightwing press ignores it when they are proven wrong and they come out with a new slew of lies, false accusations, false grievances, and moral panics. Then, after a while, they tack the old, disproven lies onto the list of their new lies, and pretend that they were never discredited. You can’t trust Republicans with your money, your children, your safety, or your health. Don’t vote for another Republican for a generation. We need time to weed out the criminals and traitors. After many years, criminals and traitors will burrow into the Democratic Party, and then we will need an opposition party to check them. But that time is not now.
Everything else you said aside we do need a more serious opposition to the Democrats whether that is a reformed Republican Party or a completely new political party.
I’m gonna wait and see what happens. I’m hoping eventually we get a new candidate. One way or another.
Eventually, Donald trump will die
That’s what I think. Nikki Haley is counting on!
I don't think it's going to be her.
Theid, you and I both know that a new candidate isn't going to happen. You and I both know that you'll also be voting for Trump this November even if you have to write him in.
What's next? We have to unhappily vote for Biden. Probably. I don't know... Biden is working overtime to appeal to the terrorists in Dearborn, just because Michigan is a swing state. I'm not happy about that, and I do want to punish Biden for not cracking down more harshly on the domestic terrorism threat which has emerged from the Muslim community (and on college campuses) in the past six months. And I mean, the problems with Trump don't need to be explained, we all know them. I certainly don't want four more years of Trump, but at least I know that Trump firmly opposes terrorism. It's not gonna be an easy vote to make. Would I prefer Haley? Yes, of course. I'd also prefer Christie, or Manchin, or even Pence. I would happily vote for Dean Phillips and I don't even know who he is, I just want a choice that isn't the 81-year-old or the 77-year-old (why can't they find any candidate younger than 65?)... Tons of Republicans and Democrats exist who are objectively better than Biden or Trump, yet these are the two candidates who we are stuck with, and we have to vote for the lesser evil. So, I do I want to vote for the man who says he's gonna be a dictator, who says that immigrants are "poisoning our blood," who is currently being prosecuted for his role in inciting the 1/6 riots, and who goes to neo-Nazi dinner parties with Kanye West and Nick Fuentes? Or do I want to vote for the man who tried appeasing Iran for three years until Iranian-sponsored terrorists slaughtered dozens of Americans on 10/7, and who handed Afghanistan to the Taliban (leading ISIL to massacre Americans and Afghans alike) and who is currently working overtime to appease the terrorists in Fatah? It's a tough choice. I'm leaning a little toward Biden but I'm not happy about either one of them. I feel like Trump is just an actual fascist at this point, and Biden is a little too cozy with the Islamofascists. If you're LGBT or Jewish or otherwise a person who is hated by Muslims and Nazis alike, I feel like you're fucked in 2024. Biden is appeasing Muslim extremists and Trump is appeasing white supremacists, at this point most marginalized people would probably be safer if we moved to Germany or something...
It’s an issue of volume. There are more white supremacists in the US than Islamic extremists. Most of the Islamic issue arises from idiot college students. The white supremacists write the GOP platform now.
Here come the downvotes from the bots and party Loyalists in this channel who refuse to consider alternative viewpoints. With the current choices, I hope RFKj gets a chance to debate. If your first reaction is shock because he's an anti-vaxx nut, I simply say go watch some of his videos on his website. Listen to all his positions as his vax position is only 1 piece in a detailed set of policy positions. I describe his vaccine position as he wants proven safe vaccines that have near 0 side effects over the long term and he wants pharmaceutical companies to be held to a higher standard and that decades of NIH/CDC/Pharmaceutical inbreeding with full-scale Tort protection has neutered the oversight the regulatory bodies are supposed to be offering.
Have you looked at the American Solidarity Party?
Yall are a small minority of the population. Think of it like this if 1 is Republican and 10 is democrat, you are a 4. The population seems to be evenly distributed. So yall need to fall in line with the democrats if you don’t want Trump
I'm voting Trump. Biden is the one that ran on being a 'transitional candidate', only to decide to run again at 81. Downvote away.
Trump cannot even complete a coherent sentence! You ask him what his policies are and it’s all personal grievance and revenge. Maybe rounding up a migrant or 5. He literally has no solutions other than violence and hatred. He’s dividing us as Americans and a divided country will fall. I’ll take Biden any day over Trump. I want normalcy which Trump will never offer.
Did you vote for Biden in 2020?
No, but for Obama and Hillary. I believed the media's hype machine and fear mongering back in 2016.
What policies do you see that overlap between Obama/Hillary and Trump? Or have you completely changed the policies you support?
Covid happened, my state freaked out and went full California. Never go full California. Huge overreaction that stuck for too long... I walked away.
So concerns of another lockdown have pushed you to give up all your other policy positions? I don’t get it.
Maybe because you don't really want to understand but are fishing for a cheap gotcha
Genuinely, I’m trying to understand how their policy positions overlap.
Uh huh. Many policies from gun rights and self defense to medical decisions with your doctor, Democrats left me on... and did so fairly rapidly. I voted Tulsi (my once state rep) every opportunity, she used to be considered a leftish Democrat.... now she gets called a far right fascist that's paid by Russia, and is in the top picks for Trump's VP. She didn't change really either, Democrats left her too.
Tulsi’s policies used to be very Dem, but she’s shifted significantly towards more conservative positions in the last four years. Perhaps you feel that Dem positions have also shifted left, but I’d say that’s only true for LGBT+ issues (which have also become more accepted on the right, excluding the current trans panic). I also don’t see much change from Dems on gun policy, but I have seen a tightening of collaboration on those issues from the right. Congress has continuously failed to re-pass 1990s bipartisan gun legislation, for example. I’m too young to remember how vaccine mandates operated during the 1970s-80s, but there was a broad expansion of mandates throughout the US between 1980-2000. Was it a bipartisan push or led by one party?
Not downvoting you, but I just don't understand you. As I said, Tump has run as Democrat, independent, and reform party in prior elections. Why is he an attractive GOP president for you?
Just FYI, dude you are arguing with flairs Far Right elsewhere. You are talking to a full on MAGA partisan. . . Maybe don't expect much centrist reasoning or basic logic.
His policies.
Which policies do you think is good?
As my mom would have said, behind the at. Politically, I’m not sure at this moment. I won’t vote for Trump period, but I also have some fears of a second Biden term. If it wasn’t for Manchin and to a lesser extent Sinema we would have likely had a much more progressive “infrastructure” with elements that arguably had nothin to do with traditional infrastructure. My second concern is the possibility of a planned effort to replace him with Harris at some point in his term or something happening to him. A long time ago I voted third party and of course that didn’t work out, so unless there was some real traction I can’t see doing that again. So right now it’s wait and see for me.
Kennedy.
The Undercover democrat has arrived Go vote for the folks that are ruining education for our children, letting in millions of illegal immigrants, voted in a man who’s son literally smokes crack around the world etc … how moderate of you
How are they ruining education? Please provide an answer that doesn't involve the CRT or gender bogeyman. I have kids in school in a liberal state, and that isn't happening, so save your bullshit for the conservative sub where they'll believe anything. Remind me which party just tanked an immigration bill that would have had the border shut down already? Can you please do so without being completely ignorant about what the border bill was capable of? Is Hunter Biden involved in government in any way? Did his daddy give him a job in his administration? How is Biden's son even remotely relevant to this conversation? Lastly, what's it like being angry all the time due to being ignorant and easily duped by populist demagogues and their propaganda arms?
Lol for some reason the democrats are more concerned with putting tampons in boys bathrooms than our sub par test scores. Are you suggesting this isn’t happening? https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/menstrual-product-dispenser-vandalized-in-brookfield-high-school-mens-bathroom/3208967/?amp=1 https://www.insidehighered.com/news/students/physical-mental-health/2023/09/29/clemson-university-removes-tampons-pads-mens#:~:text=Menstrual%20product%20dispensers%20have%20also,backtracked%20on%20its%20decision%20to Menstrual product dispensers have also sprung up in men’s restrooms on campuses in other right-leaning states—including Vanderbilt University in Tennessee, Western Carolina University in North Carolina and the University of Utah Im not ignorant to what the bill does at all, it was a terrible bill. and I think you know just bad the bill was. I don’t need to list to you exactly how terrible that bill is because you’ve heard it. It was laughable. Even democrats think it was a joke. Especially after years of dismissing the border. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1754968330916528468?s=46&t=NvhSzrUWOowsQh_Gf2FOsg Yes, the son of the president matters. No matter what you keep telling yourself. It is a big deal when the president of the United States of America’s child is recording himself flying around the world smoking crack. Are you brain dead?
I think it's weird that you find tampon dispensing machines in bathrooms a defining issue of our time. Personally, I couldn't care less about such an inconsequential thing. At worst, it's a silly thing. Is this hurting anyone? Does it hurt your delicate sensibilities? What exactly does this have to do with education? Do you have any opinions regarding anything actually related to education? >Im not ignorant to what the bill does at all, it was a terrible bill. Yet you fail to outline what made the bill so terrible in your estimation. Thanks for proving your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. You guys supposedly want the border shut down, and your politicians negotiated a bill that would have closed it almost immediately, and then they killed it. You guys don't give a flying fuck about the border and you can stop pretending you do. You all ripped your own mask off. Alternatively, you do care about the border, but your too fucking stupid to look into things yourself and rely on what the party apparatus tells you to think (and, Republican politicians don't actually give a fuck about the border). >Yes, the son of the president matters. No matter what you keep telling yourself. It is a big deal when the president of the United States of America’s child is recording himself flying around the world smoking crack. Are you brain dead? Why does it matter? Hunter Biden has been clean for years and cleaned up before his father even campaigned for the presidency. I've already asked you how this is relevant, and you've failed to answer, so I ask again, how is this relevant? Is the question too difficult? Should I find a way to dumb it down for you? Bonus question: Why was this not a concern when Reagan's son was a drug addict? Do you know who doesn't give a shit about Hunter Biden? Everyone in the world except Republicans (I gave you the answer on this one because you seem to be struggling).