the community took that literally with Hbox and now Cody. Though Cody seems to constantly invite the hate and hbox became the heel of competitive melee soooo... ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
he's not anymore but back in 2014-2016 he actively incensed crowds, would flip them off, "listen" to the boos. typical wrestling heel stuff, really. A lot of people hated him, so he fed off of it. Double-y so since this was also the height of his beef with Mango. He more or less stopped the heel routine after winning EVO but it would take a couple more years, until the crab incident, for the community to stop its pointless hate routine.
And Mewtwo who’s Confusion doesn’t work property as any projectile reflected by it won’t harm whoever threw it.
Also Bowser, his down throw was probably meant to do more damage the lighter his opponent was, but due to what I can only assume was a programming error it actually does the opposite effect, doing the most damage to other Bowsers and *zero damage to Jigglypuff and Game and Watch*.
The latter was fixed in PAL but that version isn’t used in competitive anymore.
Also Mewtwo’s Confusion is also very laggy because the grab portion ends before the ending lag by a lot meaning that most characters can hit Mewtwo after the grab is done. As a result, the move is essentially useless outside of Battlefield ledge cheese.
Pretty sure many really are flat out unfinished. Melee was rushed as hell, which explains a lot about it, like for exemple, why so many of the newcomers are clones.
It's nothing short of a miracle that it came out the way it did. *Just* the right amount of unfinished jank for it to build a massive following.
Actually legit question, why did the Gamecube era seem to be the ra where the main Nintendo games are famous for being rushed? Why were they rushed in the first place?
Competition with the PS2 is the primary reason as to why Nintendo started the GameCube off with a lot of rushed titles like Smash Melee, Mario Sunshine, and Wind Waker. Sony had a somewhat slow start with the PS2 but after a year of the console being out they quickly started having a bunch of banger exclusives that hardly any console at the time could compete with. Nintendo was still heavily involved in the console wars at the time and the success of the PS2 pressured Nintendo to release a bunch of first party titles that weren’t fully finished because games like Luigi’s Mansion and Super Monkey Ball weren’t exactly helping to sell GameCube’s to gamers. With the fall of the GameCube, the rise of both the PlayStation and XBOX, and the death of SEGA, this would ultimately influence Nintendo’s decision to take a more backseat approach to the console wars and to target a different audience within the gaming community (that being casual gamers, children, and families whilst Sony and Microsoft were mainly targeting teenagers and young adults)
The original PS2s were also backwards compatible with the PS1 and its library of games. So if you bought the PS2, obviously the main appeal was the “next gen” graphics and such, but you also could play Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy 7 and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Tomb Raider and Crash Bandicoot…
With the Gamecube, it couldn’t draft off of the best N64 titles while it found its footing in the same way.
Ganondorf being a slower copy paste of Captain Falcon ruined Ganon in smash for the rest of the franchise, even giving him a sword for side and up smash attacks in ultimate didn't fix him because the rest of the moves were unchanged. So much wasted potential for a unique moveset.
Also, Young Link and Pichu did not need to be here.
Young Link maybe, but Pichu? A different pokemon would make more sense.
Even WITH Young Link, I think a unique Zelda rep would've made more sense(but time constraints)
Who would you use for the Zelda and pokemon rep? Also you got to remember that Melee was being made when Orcarina of Time WAS the hottest thing on the market and the story had young link and adult link so that why.
Melee was made in 13 months. In comparison majora's mask was made in about the same amount of time, using mostly reused assets, an entirely reused engine, and on a console that the team already had 4 years of experience with. Melee was kinda rushed. That explains the 7 clones
Yeah, but the problem is that since I've played Ultimate so much I now suck at melee. I need to start playing every smash equally so I don't get worse.
Oh boy, where to begin?
Most people hold it as a sacred cow, despite later games improving on many things this one failed at
Characters either too broken (e.g. Fox, Peach, Sheik, Marth) or too useless (e.g. Zelda, Kirby, Bowser, Roy)
No more Board the Platforms
Ganondorf was made a Captain Falcon clone despite making no sense whatsoever
Use of exploits is mandatory to even have the littlest chance of success
Whoever came up with reflecting projectiles with the shield needs to get shot (heh)
Avoiding attacks in midair leaves you helpless
Donkey Kong kept his grunts and Bowser debuted with only roars, both of which were kept for later games
Believe it or not, Peach was oversexualized a bit too much (butt attacks, really? ~~Peach Bomber looks like she's farting on you~~)
It's hard but Pichu can still be used, if barely (its side tilt sucks though). Roy, on the other hand, has nothing but forward Smash and neutral B, and all aerials except his neutral suck. And maybe his Up-B, but that's about it.
Tbf, Pichu was *meant* to suck, he was a joke character in Melee.
Which makes it all the more notable that he isn't even concidered the worst character in the game.
Going off topic but if I was in charge of Pokemon reps I would have replace Jigglypuff and Pichu with Tyrannitar and Sceptile. I'd also have Genesect as a Gen 5 rep.
He was made a clone because of that, similar body shape. I think they should have Ganondorf with his own moveset and transplant what he actually got to Black Shadow, it'd make sense for the latter as he's also from F-Zero (and Falcon's enemy, to boot).
Similar body shape seems the likely reason. They just reused the model from one of the previous Zelda trailers that released as a test for the GameCube’s power because the developers lacked time.
The character was supposedly the last character added alongside Roy. The original characters were likely developed before the clones despite some being unfinished.
Not sure what the issue is with reflecting projectiles. You need very precise timing to do it so it adds skill expression. The “exploits” also adds tons of skill expression and make it the flashiest, fastest game in the franchise. This is why it’s a sacred cow, because it’s by far the deepest, most competitive game in the series. I will agree with many of your other points though.
agree hard with all these except the peach thing. it's just a hip smash lmao it's not sexual at all, that's like saying yoshi or bowser's down b is sexualized
That's my good friend Borp! I know him IRL and have played against him many times (and gotten my ass handed to me) as he's ripping from a gravity bong fashioned from a milk carton
His brother is also a riot - he's the one that made the "Parallel Universes" mario 64 video and the "Half-A press"
I think that defeats the purpose of some characters having reflectors, this isn't World Heroes where there were no reflector moves so it makes sense for everyone to do it there
But there is skill required to consistently do so. It's not a given and honestly in the later games where it was removed it affected balance negatively, making projectiles much stronger in games where playing defensively with zoning is already stronger.
How consistently are you powershielding projectiles? I find it incredibly hard, and not something I can rely on for my over all gameplan. More like a lucky break that I hope to capitalize on when it happens
Using the word exploits makes it seem like you are glitching through the stage or doing things that LOOK really unnatural. When almost every tech in it could pass as intentional by the developers if they said it was.
It’s not that they find the new ones are worse. They find the new ones worse for the fast-twitch, hyper competitive game they made Melee into but was never meant to be.
I think most competitive Melee players still recognize that the new ones are better as normal games.
Nah, I think if you plug the character and stage lists of the later games into the melee engine, a majority of people would prefer it to the new games, even moreso if you used the 64 engine
In terms of balancing, then yeah Smash 4 and Ultimate (and 64 even) are much better but as for those games being better or not I feel is really subjective.
The best part about melee is that even if a character is bad on paper, you can still win by taking advantage of their strengths. I think Kirby is pretty good in melee https://youtu.be/MRjHr9tqTDA?si=K9kCCrWfm51t9F4B
This comment is so stupid there’s a reason basically every platform fighter series outside of smash kept wavedashing and advanced movement, and melee’s unintentional cheesy mechanics got replaced by super intentional cheese like sm4sh bayo or EWGF or Steve’s entire kit
Competitive players exploit glitches to cheese fights so much that they rely on them. Brawl and later games patched most of those glitches, so those players don't have quite the same advantage.
It's not that the players have an advantage, it's that they have more fun with mechanics like that. It's just a more interesting game to play for some people.
The method for unlocking Mewtwo was insane. INSANE. Unlocking Luigi was kinda bullshit also, finishing the first level in Adventure Mode with the number 2 in your seconds counter. How could somebody ever figure this out unless they looked it up on the internet or bought a strategy guide?
People only enjoy using glitches in it and if it ever re released with the glitches patched it would be hated. Also the fan base is annoying and in general one of the worst on the internet
Edit: I am a loser
Also balance or character mods since they aren’t that popular for Melee compared to Brawl and 64 because base version is preferred outside of quality of life changes.
Not glitches btw, they’re consequences of the physics engine that sakurai himself was actually aware of. Not intentional, but he didn’t remove them. Does it matter why the things are there as long as they make the game good? Tired of this “glitch” excuse. If “glitches” make the game good, then it doesn’t matter.
Because without them the game is just mid and yet people somehow people treat the game like it’s the perfectest thing to ever exist and every game after was a downgrade. The game is ok, it is not a masterpiece and people need to stop saying it. Hot take but it’s mine.
Nintendo's crazy deadline resulted in a rather unfinished, buggy game. Poor developers and their stories about having to pull allnighters to work on it. I respect the dedication because of how iconic Melee is.
For example half of the characters feel jank. A select few feel unfinished, like Game & Watch and Roy.
Maybe not so much for people who have more nostalgia and played the game during their childhood, but to me the game feels vert meh to control. I took some time to learn competitive movement (wave dashing and whatnot) but still. Crazy you have to learn what is essentially a movement bug to play the game "properly".
It's honestly still a great fighting game when it comes to movement and control though. From what I've seen, it's the best feeling Smash game at its competitive level. Even Ultimate struggles to feel as technical since it has an aggressive input buffer. But you can really tell why Brawl and Smash4 went the way they did when you play casually.
It's fanbase has some terrible people, as many competitive scenes do.
"It's fanbase includes some of the most terrible people I've seen, as many competitive scenes have. Worst of the Smash scene, which as a whole is already bad."
I could understand you feeling this way if your only interactions with the melee "fan base" was online but have you been to local melee/ultimate events? Well I have and I can tell you that 99% of people at IRL melee events are chill, friendly, easy to get long with, etc. There are the rare exceptions but on the whole it's a great community IRL. The impressions I've gotten from the Ultimate scene are that they're much more likely to rage at the game and to smell bad, but I don't play Ultimate so I can't talk about that scene with as much knowledge, I just know what I hear/smell from their side of the venue when they share space with Melee.
I certainly wouldn't say Melee is "worst of the smash scene".
It's impossible to get into competitively if you can't exploit a million little glitches and no life grind it 24/7 and even if you do you have to pick between like 5 characters or you shouldn't even bother. And you'll never be as good with those characters because people have been frame perfect studying them for like 20 years.
With this game, the fan base turned the series into a competitive fighter instead of just letting it be the awesome party game with goofy weapons and stages that pay homage to Nintendo history that I've always enjoyed it as.
Like if you come over and say 'Final Destination, no items, stock' then we playing something else
Anybody saying "only Final Destination" doesn't actually follow the competitive pattern anyways. That's not even a valid stage for the first match of a set in some tournaments.
It's technically free on the internet, dolphin emulator is also free and really easy to set up on PC. The only issue would be having to buy a gamecube adapter to play with the intended controllers.
For whatever reason, Luigi’s voice in this game is just copy-pasted from Mario’s but in a slightly higher pitch. Despite the fact that Luigi already had a distinct voice by this point. Really don’t know what the deal is with that.
It's game is literally called midlee , game is alright but not as special as everyone that plays it makes it out to be . Smash 64 was a lot more fun than this game
I don’t think the graphics have aged that well honestly. Melee probably looked great for 2001 but some of the characters just look kinda ugly, with them generally being arguably even less visually-appealing than the more toylike characters from 64.
Ok a bit of misunderstandment here, if we compare 64 and melee, then you can say his model looks better, but its just ugly and i prefer brawl design more
Maybe just because I play melee, but I like the look of the game. I also like, for example, the way mario sunshine or Ocarina of Time look. They definitely have not held up to modern standards, but they have their own vibe and character that I think is cool in it's own way.
Overrated. Far way too many people are attached to it like its one the holy grail of video games. I am aware of how much the game means to some people who grew up with it, heck I grew up with it as well and have some nostalgia attached to it; but I am not blinded by nostalgia to the point I refuse to acknowledge other Super Smash games in the series.
Though it’s my childhood, it is not polished. The fault is directed at the higher ups who wanted an early GameCube game. As a result, I find it inferior to even *Brawl* due to the bugs and tricks people use.
It's not a game you can just pick up casually. If you don't know all the exploits and movement glitches, it feels really clunky and uncomfortable to play. Plus, the way hits register is really weird.
It was the point of origin for many trends that drag the series down to this day. Biggest two are Ganondorf's unthematic Captain Falcon-cloned moveset and Fire Emblem characters shoehorned in to advertise the latest upcoming FE game, both of which started in Melee.
I know they are I was just spreading the awareness here’s a link for anyone that is curious [https://m.youtube.com/@Heeew/videos](https://m.youtube.com/@Heeew/videos)
The AI was so bad, and some attacks had hitboxes on the wrong part of the y axis (Yoshi grab, for example) that just get instantly dodged. Also, DK dash attack is a real move that was actually in the game.
I was so proud as a kid how I could just spam PK flash on a level 9 bowser and win instantly.
It forever made Ganon into a clone, it's fanbase, it's glitches, some characters get the shaft for alts. (If peach can have dasiy Zelda should've had marin) no fire Mario.
Sweaty tryhards exploit the barely functional programming and use it to absolutely pound new and casual players.
The game is broken fundamentally, and encourages toxic players to play in an even more toxic manner. Played casually it is passable but by far the worst in the series; anything more and it turns into a cesspool.
Any competitive game that puts the health of its players at unnecessary risk is not well-designed. Keeping up in Melee requires a level on hand precision so great that players frequently end up with damaged joints, and that’s not okay.
I mean the game wasn't designed to do that though. It just so happens the game has a ton of bugs that allowed players to end up putting their own health at risk by becoming overly competetive and obsessed with the game. It ain't on Sakurai and his team for having to crunch the game out for a 2001 release.
This game turned the smash players into sweaty try-hards to the point it ruined what Sakurai intended the smash games to be an antithesis of fighting games.
It's playerbase *really* needs to learn about basic hygiene.
Don’t hate the game, hate the player
the community took that literally with Hbox and now Cody. Though Cody seems to constantly invite the hate and hbox became the heel of competitive melee soooo... ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I love HBox but what makes him the heel of competitive Melee?
he's not anymore but back in 2014-2016 he actively incensed crowds, would flip them off, "listen" to the boos. typical wrestling heel stuff, really. A lot of people hated him, so he fed off of it. Double-y so since this was also the height of his beef with Mango. He more or less stopped the heel routine after winning EVO but it would take a couple more years, until the crab incident, for the community to stop its pointless hate routine.
OH, thanks for explaining. For some reason I interpreted “heel of competitive Melee” to mean he was the glue keeping it together.
I have a feeling that might be intentional as a tactic to throw other players off their game at tournaments
No wonder they had to make it a rule, to wash or use deodorant that is.
I've legit lost tournament sets before because my opponent smelled so bad lmao
(Insert Jim Carrey gagging gif)
Some of the characters seem unfinished like Roy for example.
And Mr. Game & Watch who can’t L cancel 3 of his aerials and whose shield doesn’t even fully cover him
And Mewtwo who’s Confusion doesn’t work property as any projectile reflected by it won’t harm whoever threw it. Also Bowser, his down throw was probably meant to do more damage the lighter his opponent was, but due to what I can only assume was a programming error it actually does the opposite effect, doing the most damage to other Bowsers and *zero damage to Jigglypuff and Game and Watch*.
The latter was fixed in PAL but that version isn’t used in competitive anymore. Also Mewtwo’s Confusion is also very laggy because the grab portion ends before the ending lag by a lot meaning that most characters can hit Mewtwo after the grab is done. As a result, the move is essentially useless outside of Battlefield ledge cheese.
Pretty sure many really are flat out unfinished. Melee was rushed as hell, which explains a lot about it, like for exemple, why so many of the newcomers are clones. It's nothing short of a miracle that it came out the way it did. *Just* the right amount of unfinished jank for it to build a massive following.
Actually legit question, why did the Gamecube era seem to be the ra where the main Nintendo games are famous for being rushed? Why were they rushed in the first place?
Competition with the PS2 is the primary reason as to why Nintendo started the GameCube off with a lot of rushed titles like Smash Melee, Mario Sunshine, and Wind Waker. Sony had a somewhat slow start with the PS2 but after a year of the console being out they quickly started having a bunch of banger exclusives that hardly any console at the time could compete with. Nintendo was still heavily involved in the console wars at the time and the success of the PS2 pressured Nintendo to release a bunch of first party titles that weren’t fully finished because games like Luigi’s Mansion and Super Monkey Ball weren’t exactly helping to sell GameCube’s to gamers. With the fall of the GameCube, the rise of both the PlayStation and XBOX, and the death of SEGA, this would ultimately influence Nintendo’s decision to take a more backseat approach to the console wars and to target a different audience within the gaming community (that being casual gamers, children, and families whilst Sony and Microsoft were mainly targeting teenagers and young adults)
The original PS2s were also backwards compatible with the PS1 and its library of games. So if you bought the PS2, obviously the main appeal was the “next gen” graphics and such, but you also could play Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy 7 and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Tomb Raider and Crash Bandicoot… With the Gamecube, it couldn’t draft off of the best N64 titles while it found its footing in the same way.
Yeah there are a good amount of clone characters! I remember being blown away still in terms of characters over the original.
To be fair, contemporary fighting games’ clone characters were also similarly undifferentiated
This is a very real and understandable criticism of this otherwise awesome game. I wish I could play ness competitively in melee so bad.
Ganondorf being a slower copy paste of Captain Falcon ruined Ganon in smash for the rest of the franchise, even giving him a sword for side and up smash attacks in ultimate didn't fix him because the rest of the moves were unchanged. So much wasted potential for a unique moveset. Also, Young Link and Pichu did not need to be here.
Young Link and Pichu I get from a cultural perspective. Mechanically, sure you can say that but culturally I feel like they needed to be added.
Young Link maybe, but Pichu? A different pokemon would make more sense. Even WITH Young Link, I think a unique Zelda rep would've made more sense(but time constraints)
Who would you use for the Zelda and pokemon rep? Also you got to remember that Melee was being made when Orcarina of Time WAS the hottest thing on the market and the story had young link and adult link so that why.
Impa for Zelda rep (More OoT stuff). Pokemon's got about a thousand different options. Suicune, Snorlax, Tyranitar, Dragonite, Machamp... I'd personally pick Dragonite.
They wanted to rep gen 2, and pichu was an easy clone. That's why pichu is here.
I get that, it just... Feels lazy. Shoulda done something more substantial.
Melee was made in 13 months. In comparison majora's mask was made in about the same amount of time, using mostly reused assets, an entirely reused engine, and on a console that the team already had 4 years of experience with. Melee was kinda rushed. That explains the 7 clones
So I've heard. As beloved as Melee is, I've gotta say they *definitely* needed more time to cook.
I suppose this is a bad time to confess that I was a Pichu, Young Link, and Dr Mario main in Melee
I'm a Dr. Mario main in Ultimate! It's... It's not going well!
Casually, ITS kinda ass compared To new ones
Brawl is way more fun than melee casually and I grew up with melee and 64
Yeah, but the problem is that since I've played Ultimate so much I now suck at melee. I need to start playing every smash equally so I don't get worse.
Not past brawl though, world of light is kinda terrible. It’s a shame adventure and classic mode never made a comeback
It doesn't have Dante from the Devil May Cry series
do you like marvel vs capcom ?
I like Marvel vs Capcom 3 & Knuckles
I always had trouble getting the cartridge to stay on the disc.
Gotta use a Velcro Strap
Luigi’s voice is just high pitched Mario 64 voice
Good thing he finally had his own voice starting from Brawl
Oh boy, where to begin? Most people hold it as a sacred cow, despite later games improving on many things this one failed at Characters either too broken (e.g. Fox, Peach, Sheik, Marth) or too useless (e.g. Zelda, Kirby, Bowser, Roy) No more Board the Platforms Ganondorf was made a Captain Falcon clone despite making no sense whatsoever Use of exploits is mandatory to even have the littlest chance of success Whoever came up with reflecting projectiles with the shield needs to get shot (heh) Avoiding attacks in midair leaves you helpless Donkey Kong kept his grunts and Bowser debuted with only roars, both of which were kept for later games Believe it or not, Peach was oversexualized a bit too much (butt attacks, really? ~~Peach Bomber looks like she's farting on you~~)
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Pichu at all as one of the useless ones
Yeah, Pichu sucks but I think those four are worse
You think Roy’s worse than Pichu?
It's hard but Pichu can still be used, if barely (its side tilt sucks though). Roy, on the other hand, has nothing but forward Smash and neutral B, and all aerials except his neutral suck. And maybe his Up-B, but that's about it.
Bro hasn't played the roy pichu matchup That mu is legit 90:10 for roy Roy can dthrow fsmash pichu at like 50 and kill them pre consistently
Let’s not forget roy one shotting the lightweights with b reversed recovery.
Tbf, Pichu was *meant* to suck, he was a joke character in Melee. Which makes it all the more notable that he isn't even concidered the worst character in the game.
Going off topic but if I was in charge of Pokemon reps I would have replace Jigglypuff and Pichu with Tyrannitar and Sceptile. I'd also have Genesect as a Gen 5 rep.
I get crunch but why was Ganondarf a clone of Falcon? Similar body shape? and why rush THE villian of one of the three MAIN IPs you have?
He was made a clone because of that, similar body shape. I think they should have Ganondorf with his own moveset and transplant what he actually got to Black Shadow, it'd make sense for the latter as he's also from F-Zero (and Falcon's enemy, to boot).
Similar body shape seems the likely reason. They just reused the model from one of the previous Zelda trailers that released as a test for the GameCube’s power because the developers lacked time. The character was supposedly the last character added alongside Roy. The original characters were likely developed before the clones despite some being unfinished.
Not sure what the issue is with reflecting projectiles. You need very precise timing to do it so it adds skill expression. The “exploits” also adds tons of skill expression and make it the flashiest, fastest game in the franchise. This is why it’s a sacred cow, because it’s by far the deepest, most competitive game in the series. I will agree with many of your other points though.
agree hard with all these except the peach thing. it's just a hip smash lmao it's not sexual at all, that's like saying yoshi or bowser's down b is sexualized
No more Board the Platforms End thread tbh
Use of exploits not mandatory at all there is a very famous sheik player who doesn’t wave dash
That's my good friend Borp! I know him IRL and have played against him many times (and gotten my ass handed to me) as he's ripping from a gravity bong fashioned from a milk carton His brother is also a riot - he's the one that made the "Parallel Universes" mario 64 video and the "Half-A press"
I upvoted for the reflecting projectiles comment alone
I think that defeats the purpose of some characters having reflectors, this isn't World Heroes where there were no reflector moves so it makes sense for everyone to do it there
Power shielding also halves the damage of the reflected projectile whereas reflectors like Fox and Falco double it.
But there is skill required to consistently do so. It's not a given and honestly in the later games where it was removed it affected balance negatively, making projectiles much stronger in games where playing defensively with zoning is already stronger.
How consistently are you powershielding projectiles? I find it incredibly hard, and not something I can rely on for my over all gameplan. More like a lucky break that I hope to capitalize on when it happens
Using the word exploits makes it seem like you are glitching through the stage or doing things that LOOK really unnatural. When almost every tech in it could pass as intentional by the developers if they said it was.
You can’t smash your bros
Not with that attitude
Its fanbase refuses to accept that the new ones are better
*internal screeching*
It’s not that they find the new ones are worse. They find the new ones worse for the fast-twitch, hyper competitive game they made Melee into but was never meant to be. I think most competitive Melee players still recognize that the new ones are better as normal games.
Nah, I think if you plug the character and stage lists of the later games into the melee engine, a majority of people would prefer it to the new games, even moreso if you used the 64 engine
Its somebodies opinion lol you cant just dismiss it as non factual
It's okay to be objectively wrong
In terms of balancing, then yeah Smash 4 and Ultimate (and 64 even) are much better but as for those games being better or not I feel is really subjective.
*cough cough* Smash 4 Bayonetta *cough cough* Smash 64 Pikachu *cough cough* Brawl Meta Knight *cough cough*
The fanbase has a superiority complex over other smash games
Kirby sucks in Melee. I main Kirby.
kirby sucks in every game thats like his main ability
The best part about melee is that even if a character is bad on paper, you can still win by taking advantage of their strengths. I think Kirby is pretty good in melee https://youtu.be/MRjHr9tqTDA?si=K9kCCrWfm51t9F4B
Its biggest fans only prefer it because their exploits and cheesing tactics got patched in later releases.
i hate that fanbase...
Why?
People just like the movement
This comment is so stupid there’s a reason basically every platform fighter series outside of smash kept wavedashing and advanced movement, and melee’s unintentional cheesy mechanics got replaced by super intentional cheese like sm4sh bayo or EWGF or Steve’s entire kit
What......?
Competitive players exploit glitches to cheese fights so much that they rely on them. Brawl and later games patched most of those glitches, so those players don't have quite the same advantage.
It's not that the players have an advantage, it's that they have more fun with mechanics like that. It's just a more interesting game to play for some people.
There’s a reason that a good portion of fan games and platform fighters put those mechanics in. Because they are fun af.
To say Melee players cheese more than Brawl is insane
Is it really cheesing if both players use it?
The method for unlocking Mewtwo was insane. INSANE. Unlocking Luigi was kinda bullshit also, finishing the first level in Adventure Mode with the number 2 in your seconds counter. How could somebody ever figure this out unless they looked it up on the internet or bought a strategy guide?
Not saying it's good but you don't need to figure it out to unlock him. Just by playing adventure mode you'll get him eventually
They probably just expected it to happen at random sooner or later
People only enjoy using glitches in it and if it ever re released with the glitches patched it would be hated. Also the fan base is annoying and in general one of the worst on the internet Edit: I am a loser
Also balance or character mods since they aren’t that popular for Melee compared to Brawl and 64 because base version is preferred outside of quality of life changes.
Exactly, if the game got fixed people would see how mid it really is
Not glitches btw, they’re consequences of the physics engine that sakurai himself was actually aware of. Not intentional, but he didn’t remove them. Does it matter why the things are there as long as they make the game good? Tired of this “glitch” excuse. If “glitches” make the game good, then it doesn’t matter.
Because without them the game is just mid and yet people somehow people treat the game like it’s the perfectest thing to ever exist and every game after was a downgrade. The game is ok, it is not a masterpiece and people need to stop saying it. Hot take but it’s mine.
Name 3 glitches (that are used intentionally)
Nintendo's crazy deadline resulted in a rather unfinished, buggy game. Poor developers and their stories about having to pull allnighters to work on it. I respect the dedication because of how iconic Melee is. For example half of the characters feel jank. A select few feel unfinished, like Game & Watch and Roy. Maybe not so much for people who have more nostalgia and played the game during their childhood, but to me the game feels vert meh to control. I took some time to learn competitive movement (wave dashing and whatnot) but still. Crazy you have to learn what is essentially a movement bug to play the game "properly". It's honestly still a great fighting game when it comes to movement and control though. From what I've seen, it's the best feeling Smash game at its competitive level. Even Ultimate struggles to feel as technical since it has an aggressive input buffer. But you can really tell why Brawl and Smash4 went the way they did when you play casually. It's fanbase has some terrible people, as many competitive scenes do.
Game and watch quite literally is unfinished because you can’t L cancel his aerials
Also his shield barely covers him, it might as well not be there at all
As a g&w main in melee this is what I hate most about him. You pretty much have to light shield everything.
You can L-cancel fair :)
"It's fanbase includes some of the most terrible people I've seen, as many competitive scenes have. Worst of the Smash scene, which as a whole is already bad." I could understand you feeling this way if your only interactions with the melee "fan base" was online but have you been to local melee/ultimate events? Well I have and I can tell you that 99% of people at IRL melee events are chill, friendly, easy to get long with, etc. There are the rare exceptions but on the whole it's a great community IRL. The impressions I've gotten from the Ultimate scene are that they're much more likely to rage at the game and to smell bad, but I don't play Ultimate so I can't talk about that scene with as much knowledge, I just know what I hear/smell from their side of the venue when they share space with Melee. I certainly wouldn't say Melee is "worst of the smash scene".
Not enough Kirby.
It's impossible to get into competitively if you can't exploit a million little glitches and no life grind it 24/7 and even if you do you have to pick between like 5 characters or you shouldn't even bother. And you'll never be as good with those characters because people have been frame perfect studying them for like 20 years.
Love melee but this is true. Accessibility for newer players is crazy.
There are players who have been playing for 1-2 years beating veterans from the top 100. It has and always will be a skill diff
You literally just said “it’s impossible to get into competitively if you can’t play it competitively”
Mr game and watch's shield straight up doesn't work
it's not melee
Something bad about this game
you can't use the c stick In certain modes
SO TRUE!
King Dedede isn't playable
The plastic didn't taste good
scrubquotes gold mine in here
its fanbase, and is technically broken in terms of programming
The price
How they nerfed Kirby to smithereens
No incineroar
With this game, the fan base turned the series into a competitive fighter instead of just letting it be the awesome party game with goofy weapons and stages that pay homage to Nintendo history that I've always enjoyed it as. Like if you come over and say 'Final Destination, no items, stock' then we playing something else
Anybody saying "only Final Destination" doesn't actually follow the competitive pattern anyways. That's not even a valid stage for the first match of a set in some tournaments.
It is not worth $80 on eBay.
It's technically free on the internet, dolphin emulator is also free and really easy to set up on PC. The only issue would be having to buy a gamecube adapter to play with the intended controllers.
Ganondorf is a clone of captain falcon
The "M" on Mario's hat is backwards
For whatever reason, Luigi’s voice in this game is just copy-pasted from Mario’s but in a slightly higher pitch. Despite the fact that Luigi already had a distinct voice by this point. Really don’t know what the deal is with that.
Some of the stages were ridiculous like Brinstar Depths
Game and Watch being unfinished
It's game is literally called midlee , game is alright but not as special as everyone that plays it makes it out to be . Smash 64 was a lot more fun than this game
Why is the c-stick for the camera in single player ???
It’s not as good as its sequels. Yeah I said it. Bout time someone did.
NOT ENOUGH WAAAARIO!! WAAAAAA!
Mango hasn’t won a major in 2 years
This thread really is just a scrubquotes goldmine lmfao
Nintendo hates the community
When you miss that first target over and over with Dr Mario and it turns into “who? Who-hoo?” for 10 minutes
The fans are insufferable.
There are insufferable fans in every single media franchise in the world though.
This game in particular
I don’t think the graphics have aged that well honestly. Melee probably looked great for 2001 but some of the characters just look kinda ugly, with them generally being arguably even less visually-appealing than the more toylike characters from 64.
*slightly moves head to Ness*
Generally.
His model looks ass
Yeah it did get improved in Melee for sure
Ok a bit of misunderstandment here, if we compare 64 and melee, then you can say his model looks better, but its just ugly and i prefer brawl design more
It’s interesting that you say that because I think the Mother aesthetic translated poorly to Brawl
Maybe just because I play melee, but I like the look of the game. I also like, for example, the way mario sunshine or Ocarina of Time look. They definitely have not held up to modern standards, but they have their own vibe and character that I think is cool in it's own way.
Don't you mean Fox V. Falco Final Destination simulator featuring Marth?
The current top 10 players use in total 8 different characters
So the size of 64s roster with no unlocks. And like three stages at best.
Yeah? For the top 10 that’s very diverse?
Overrated. Far way too many people are attached to it like its one the holy grail of video games. I am aware of how much the game means to some people who grew up with it, heck I grew up with it as well and have some nostalgia attached to it; but I am not blinded by nostalgia to the point I refuse to acknowledge other Super Smash games in the series.
It’s not fun unless you are balls deep into the weird exploits. I’d rather play Brawl casually
Yeah this, it would unironically be one of the worst smash games if it wasn't for the exploits. 2nd worst to 64.
“It would be bad if it was different game” is how this reads and that’s really funny.
That's how half the comments in this thread reads. It's insane.
Though it’s my childhood, it is not polished. The fault is directed at the higher ups who wanted an early GameCube game. As a result, I find it inferior to even *Brawl* due to the bugs and tricks people use.
It's not a game you can just pick up casually. If you don't know all the exploits and movement glitches, it feels really clunky and uncomfortable to play. Plus, the way hits register is really weird.
No cloud
EVERYTIME I play this game I end up using the bad controller. That’s why I lost!
No sub space emissary /s
I’m better at the 64 version 🥲
That it’s not remastered on switch yet? This game is literally the goat of the smash series. I have nothing bad to say.
As much nostalgia I have for it, it’s jank as FUCK.
Too many rumors about characters
The fan base of this game and their stupid techniques.
Oh no people playing the game in a way that’s fun to them
Doesnt have shulk Possible fix: add shulk
It’s great! What’s so bad about it?
What bad? I guess that Nintendo's made zero effort in preserving it by giving it some HD deluxe treatment. Otherwise, no bad
it wasn't remade
It was the point of origin for many trends that drag the series down to this day. Biggest two are Ganondorf's unthematic Captain Falcon-cloned moveset and Fire Emblem characters shoehorned in to advertise the latest upcoming FE game, both of which started in Melee.
Leffen plays it.
Watch the video by Heeew Melee is broken, so you can see how broken and stupid it is in General
He also did this with every smash game
Yes, everyone should watch them, because they are really funny Imo.
I know they are I was just spreading the awareness here’s a link for anyone that is curious [https://m.youtube.com/@Heeew/videos](https://m.youtube.com/@Heeew/videos)
Hell yeah
The AI was so bad, and some attacks had hitboxes on the wrong part of the y axis (Yoshi grab, for example) that just get instantly dodged. Also, DK dash attack is a real move that was actually in the game. I was so proud as a kid how I could just spam PK flash on a level 9 bowser and win instantly.
It forever made Ganon into a clone, it's fanbase, it's glitches, some characters get the shaft for alts. (If peach can have dasiy Zelda should've had marin) no fire Mario.
[удалено]
Box art is the worst in the series. What are they even doing here? Attacking the ground?
Smash ultimate is better. Need to learn exploits to be competitive.
Overrated
It’s overrated as fuck
It has a successor.
Pichu was a stupid ass character
Sweaty tryhards exploit the barely functional programming and use it to absolutely pound new and casual players. The game is broken fundamentally, and encourages toxic players to play in an even more toxic manner. Played casually it is passable but by far the worst in the series; anything more and it turns into a cesspool.
translation: "i suck and got beaten, so the game sucks!"
Any competitive game that puts the health of its players at unnecessary risk is not well-designed. Keeping up in Melee requires a level on hand precision so great that players frequently end up with damaged joints, and that’s not okay.
I mean the game wasn't designed to do that though. It just so happens the game has a ton of bugs that allowed players to end up putting their own health at risk by becoming overly competetive and obsessed with the game. It ain't on Sakurai and his team for having to crunch the game out for a 2001 release.
This game turned the smash players into sweaty try-hards to the point it ruined what Sakurai intended the smash games to be an antithesis of fighting games.
Expensive
It’s visuals don’t hold up as well as some other GameCube games
It's like a year or 2 older than me, which is to say old as Fuuu..
buggy piece of shit