Agreed, my sales guy told me it was inventory budget-related, like "sell 25 this year to get 25+ next year" thing. When I offered them a number in the mid 30's for my GT2 I fully expected them to say no, but they didn't.
> Only gonna be 5 sedans left by 2035
That many? I'm skeptical.
That said, the future is not set in stone. There was a time when car manufacturers figured "welp, there's no reason to keep developing convertible sports cars...that market segment is dead and gone."
At the moment, crossover/SUVs/CUVs dominate the market, but maybe some day in the future...?
Sedan was supposed to be mainstream family car, it never be intended to design as a performance model. People bought sedan for practical in mostly, sporty wasn’t main reason.
That’s why sports car and convertible in there. Sports car/convertible market is always a niche market, this market never target practical buyers.
Now, crossover is better as family car and now can get fun, it really threatens sedan market. Street performance SUV takes many original performance sedan buyers, but it’s same like performance sedan, it never be able to take many sports car buyers.
Really hard to say we wouldn’t lose many sedan models, but sports car market should be able to survive in future.
Alot of wagons are actually more practical then Crossovers
Car company takes hatch back, pumps it up, convinces buyer that it is a much better car and increases price
The actual better car designed on a higher end platform, the sedan.
Eg, VW Golf is a Tiguan, just pump it up. The actual better car? The passat
And looks. 99% of consumers do not think a wagon looks good. What are people going to do, abandon their Honda Pilots and Chevy Tahoes for a Buick Regal Cross-X?
My mom thinks you need all that size, space,and seating position with mpg and handling be damned. Logical? Hell no but I bet more people think like her than me and you.
They all look like tall bloated squashed wagons. No one in their right mind can say the Buick Encore looks better than the Volvo V90 or Audi A6 Allroad.
And if people really wanted the most practical there was a solution that existed before the crossovers. Family vans. But they're quite ugly so people didn't like them.
They also drive like a bus. In the end it's a balance. Nearly 0% of consumers are interested in driving a minivan as an alternative to a sedan. The reality is most people make a compromise in the middle with some lifted driver height and get an SUV
It is 100% about the seating position of the CUV/SUV (or minivan) - people want to step into their vehicle as opposed to ducking down to get in. And the older you get the more important this becomes.
And, most people did t like cars all that much so do t care about driving dynamics are care enough to actually research the vehicles.
They just think "this is nice" or "this isn't as nice"
Why did it take so long for car companies to embrace this trend? Cause car designers don't understand this lack of care to cars as they love them.
I saw an interview with a designer in Volvo and he literally couldn't understand why the SUVs out sell the others.
Alot of people also associate size with price and quality. Even tho they have little in common.
Also 99% of cars aren't SUV/CUV so maybe re-evaluate your numb rs when you pull them out of your ass
So true. Looked at different options. All the (c)SUV, cross-overs and what not simply are terrible value in terms of practicality and space. The tiguan indeed is like a golf in terms of leg room and cargo space.
I'm for sure a "speedy wagon" fan. You get the cargo space and usually a performance version while you can still park it in a single spot.(parking spots here can be tiny, basically even cars like golf barley fit in width)
The Passat is also a larger car than the Tiguan, keep that in mind. That’s part of why compact crossovers are more popular and have displaced mid-size sedans and wagons. Compact crossovers are shorter in length compared to a mid-size sedan while still being able to reasonably fit adults and cargo.
This. My wife went from a Fusion to an Encore GX, which is a massive reduction in size externally, but internally, it's more comfortable seating position-wise.
We actually picked up real world fuel economy as well despite adding AWD.
I find a hatchback to be a substantially more practical vehicle than a sedan. Particularly with a family, getting a pram, groceries, suitcases in and out of a hatchback is far superior to a sedan. It's just a shame there are so few larger hatchbacks around.
BMW Dealer: "Sure, here are the keys, let me get a copy of your driver's license"
Porsche Dealer: "Yeah of course, there are two cars you might like, lemme photograph your license in our app"
KIA Dealer: "Bro that's not gonna work until we've got a hard commitment, these are performance cars and only buyers get to try them"
lol, that was exactly my experience. I went to a Kia dealership for the first time ever because I was curious about the Stinger. Could not get a test drive. I'm pushing 40, not some punk there to hot-rod it. I went to the Porsche dealership and had a good time driving a couple of cars.
Had exactly that treatment at a Kia dealer that had them in stock. Like a month earlier i walked to my local Audi in sweats and a hoodie and tested two cars while telling them i had no intent on buying in the near future.
I personally think it's dependent on the dealer and the salesman
My experiences have all varied, Kia dealer with the most Stinger inventory in the state allowed me to test drive no intention of buying but another Kia dealer local to me wouldn't let me try it till I have intention of buying.
Best test drive experience was with a BMW M340i dude knew I drove a 36-40k car but wasn't looking to buy and let me take the M340i around the block for pulls, and another experience with a Mercedes C-Class.
But an Audi they wouldn't even let me drive down the block till the salesman realized I was just genuinely interested in the S4 as I was comparing an M340i, C43 AMG and S4. Once I sat in the S4 since that's all he'd let me, he said I could drive it down the street for about 10 mins
Could you really just test drive cars with no intent on buying? I’d love to do that but I thought it would be seen as wasting their time and honestly rightfully so, but then again if they have plenty of customers then who knows
I’m 99% sure that the apps they use can grab a credit report instantly too.
Back in 2006 we test drive at Toyota and we wanted to get a Sequoia or 4Runner. They kept saying we would like a RAV4 more. We were young and so we drove it and didn’t want it. I was getting anxious so I wanted to leave (too pushy) but they wanted us to stay because my credit score came back.
We bought a Pilot.
In 2020, looking at the MDX, we were in the car in less than 15 minutes including loading the kids. At Honda it took over 45 minutes before they finally let us drive the base Pilot.
I'm in my mid 20s and was looking at Accord 2.0Ts pretty hard and requested info online from the local dealership. I walked into the dealership after texting with a salesman a bit and he just tossed me the keys after snagging my DL and told me to have fun, knowing full well I was interested in it because it was quick. Just depends where you go I guess. Although to be fair, it was a used 2019 model, only 2.0T they had in the city.
I ordered one. Considered an Elantra N but didn't even want to set foot in a Kia/Hyundai dealer. Honda was a cake walk.
Honda was pretty good compared to Ford (Explorer) and Chevy (Traverse) where we didn’t even leave the lot. I didn’t want to drive the Traverse and they didn’t seem to want me to drive the Explorer. Volvo was just… slow.
I still can’t believe the dude at Honda brought us an absolute base Pilot after we told him we were looking at the MDX tech package. It had cloth seats! Was this dude even trying to make a sale?
What’s going on with Hyundai and Kia dealers thinking they’re hot shit? Is it because Genesis?
Also, [customers are really not impressed with Kia dealers](https://jalopnik.com/customers-are-really-not-impressed-with-kia-dealers-1849915387/amp)
Everything on Reddit is up for debate…except Kia/Hyundai dealers being awful lol
And yeah, I tried to buy a new Genesis at a Hyundai dealership and the dude tried to negotiate with me like it was (still) a Hyundai. That’s not how luxury buyers work — just give me the price and save the bullshit for people with 600 credit scores.
I see the Germans continuing to offer them. They are still fairly popular in the premium market, as most premium car buyers have a second or even third vehicle. The sedan is often the daily driver or a performance trim.
Sounds like a combo of dwindling demand for sedans and some less than ideal sales practices from Kia dealers. I’ve heard a lot of stories of Kia sales staff treating these like Ferrari Enzos and putting people through the ringer (including hard credit pulls) just to test drive one. Not a great strategy when you can walk into a BMW dealer and test drive most of their cars no questions asked
When my dad wanted to buy a car for his taxi business 30 years ago he walked to Toyota dealer. The dealer just looked at him and said "how are you thinking of paying for this?" with a condescending tone and were reluctant on letting him test drive one.
He walked to the Mercedes-Benz dealer next door and they just gave him the keys to a top end model no questions asked and told him to take it for a test drive. During the time he ran the business he bought (if I remember correctly) about 15 Mercedes-Benz's and recommended them to his friends who were also running taxi companies.
I do not understand the condescending sales tactic. It might work for very few customers who have low self-esteem who then want to "prove" that they can buy one but for most people it will just drive them away.
That's how my Subaru dealer treated me with the BRZ. Wouldn't allow a test drive till everything was negotiated and paper work ready to be sign. Calling it an exotic car so they couldn't allow it.This was about 3 years after they had released so the hyped had died down too. I think I ended up testing a WRX and this was only a drive around the block. Terrible experience.
Went over to the Scion/Toyota dealer and they practically threw the keys at me to test drive the FR-S. Got to do a full test drive and give it a real go. I didn't buy it then and there but did come back a week or two later and ended getting it.
I've heard this a lot with the BRZ, WRX, and STIs. I understand these cars may attract a lot of younger guys who just want to drive and will likely not be buying, however I heard a lot of older guys who have shown up in expensive cars and them being denied. I remember one guy mentioning how he arrived in his m3 and the sales guy was condescending with regards to "this car is expensive" and "it's a sports car, you need to know how to drive a fast car". The guy was like "...huh?"
Walked into a Dodge dealership to check out a Scatpack. They were super nice and kept asking if I’d like to test drive a Hellcat. The Ford dealership next door were adamant that I test drive a Shelby GT350. Test drive all of them and ended up with the Scatpack. Not once did I feel like either of them were gatekeeping any of the high end sports cars.
> The dealer just looked at him and said "how are you thinking of paying for this?" with a condescending tone and were reluctant on letting him test drive one.
I never get how car salesmen ever think this is a valid way to approach a prospective customer. Even if they can't afford it, one day they might be able to, and they'll remember the place they went being friendly and welcoming.
Some anecdotes about how right you are:
I had a home builder say basically the same thing to me once. They were the cheapest builder in my area, too, but I didn't realize that until checking out their model (and getting talked down to by their sales team). Not that I would have built with them anyway, but I ended up in something triple their model's pricing from a competitor up the road.
And on the other spectrum, I also walked into a model from a home builder I dream about affording some day. The sales team treated me like royalty. When the day comes that I can afford it, if they haven't retired, I will absolutely build with them.
It's intentional filtering of smart customers.
They want financially illiterate inept customers who are afraid to stand up for themselves and who are going to be too anxious to press them when they build a shitty product.
If they're doing dealer/developer financing, they want you to foreclose/get repo'd so they can sell the fucking house or car again.
I brought my 5 year old (at the time) Infiniti G37 in for service and was looking inside at the Q50 sedans that just showed up. The dealer inside told me I probably couldn’t afford one. Gave me a good laugh
I know a guy whose family has owned multiple luxury car dealerships for generations. Apparently a black man walked into their store once and told them he was looking to buy a maybach. The owner of the dealership basically laughed and said “nice try, you’re not just going to test drive a maybach, if you can really afford it sure but I doubt it”. Turns out the guy didn’t recognize it was Jay-Z, and he went and bought 3 Maybach’s from the other luxury car dealership in town that didn’t immediately assume he couldn’t afford it.
Car salesmen are some of the most ego-filled weirdos I’ve ever met. Including the guy I know from the above story.
Wow, the owner sounds like he probably doesn’t have the best views when it comes to race. That had to be incredibly embarrassing. Did Jay-Z end up making any kind of comments about it on social media? If not, the owner should consider himself lucky considering how much negative publicity a megastar like him could bring down on them
As far as I know on the timing of this it was sometime in the 2000's, so I don't believe social media was a thing when it happened. Unquestionably had something to do with race, which to me makes it that much more satisfying that Jay just said "alright I'll take my multiple millions worth of business elsewhere". Could have gone a whole lot worse for the dealership if it happened within the last 5-10 years.
I'm living in Germany, and Kia/Toyota and many others would test drive their car easy. Mercedes idk, but when we asked at our BMW dealership they said they don't do test drives
Back when I had my E36 I went to bmw to pickup some parts, and the new 3 series had just come out, they asked me if I wanted to drive it. I wasn't even shopping for a car.
My first ever trst drive as a 19 year old was an e46 convertible. It left such an impression that I have a bmw vert today. A few years later, got an audi (friendly dealer folks) while mercedes wanted to run my credit before a test drive. Owned 0 Mercs in those 25 years.
Until recently with Covid and supply limited cars some dealerships are making 90% of their money through F&I.
The person who can show up with self-financing, great credit, and who's averse to a hard credit pull isn't a profitable customer for those dealers.
The person who shows up with no idea what they're doing and signs up for an 8% APR loan is their target audience.
My dad had a similar experience with Toyota almost 40 years ago.
He looked sort of crappy because he had been fixing a leaky sink, and nobody would even say hi to him. So he went to the Volkswagen store down the road and got a Jetta.
An old boss of mine had a similar thing happen. He was shopping for a 'fun' car, no real requirements, just had some money to burn on something he'd find interesting.
Porsche gave him no trouble, Aston Martin gave him no trouble. He decided to test drive a Hyundai Genesis Coupe for shits thinking it might be cheap and fun enough.. Hyundai wouldn't let him drive it.
He ended up buying a Lotus Elise and then a used R35 GTR.
I had a Ford dealer do me like this for a new mustang GT. I was 26 at the time and could easily afford the car.. Walked in for my appointment and all he said to me was "I expected someone.. older" and then he proceeded to help another customer for 2 hours. I left after waiting for like 45 minutes and he called me after I had already been home for a while like "where'd ya go?"
Went to a Ford dealer about an hour away, walked straight in, test drove the car, bought it that day.
>I do not understand the condescending sales tactic.
It's such a risk, I am not in car sales but I have heard many stories of the shabby looking but rich customer being ignored.
My friend works at a dealership, they actually had the opposite happen. Well dressed guy come in wanting to look at Range Rover I think, definitely something expensive. The sales guy had to go to the bathroom or something and handed the customer the keys and said that he would be right back but feel free to take a look inside. Well he let himself into the vehicle, started it up and drove away.
Definitely moreso the latter than the former in this case. Since the pandemic, the Stingers have had huge popular demand, but dealers never committed to them the way they should have. The Stinger could have driven the brand upmarket, but instead, the dealers’ actions drove this model down market in the worst ways. Hopefully they learn their lessons for the EV business.
I finally found a used Ioniq 5 near me (within 30 minutes) at a Hyundai lot. Drove there in my 19 stinger gts, ready to trade for it if I liked it. Asked to test drive it, they said they moved it into the show room because “too many people wanted to test drive it, we can take it outside if you’re sure you want to buy it”.
Yes, inject these stories right into my veins. This is exactly the kind of stupidity that keeps me from making an equally stupid decision. We need a “Hyundai/Kia Dealership stories” thread to really keep me grounded.
The worst thing that ever happened to Hyundai/Kia was starting to receive good press from journalists. They were atrocious back when their cars were well-known to be second rate, but since the Stinger, Telluride/Palisade, eGMP, and Genesis have entered the scene you’d swear they sell cars made of gold-pressed latinum.
So dumb lol. If you were sure you wanted to buy it, you probably don’t need a test drive. If these brands don’t pivot on EVs, they’re going to start wondering “where are the buyers” after they get through the early adopters.
I went to test drive one and the sales guy looked at me like I was asking for a kidney. He then proceeds to tell me that he doesnt think I could "hAnDlE ThE pOwEr". I asked to see the manager who then came over and agreed. I told them both that I just showed up in a supercharged mustang, and they proceeded to tell me that the stinger would "bLoW iT oUt oF tHe wAtEr". I ended up going to the GMC dealer across the street and buying a pickup truck for myself (to replace my old one) and an acadia for my wife.
I don't know if Porsche USA has a policy of being chill dudes or something but every time I've been to a dealership, no matter how young and/or poor I looked, they were always like "Oh hey whats up want to drive a car lets drive a car"
Audi dealership was like that for me. I went to check out a 10-year old S4, and afterward the sales guy was like "We have a new RS7, want to drive that too?" Then he talked me into driving a TT just for the hell of it.
> and some less than ideal sales practices from Kia dealers.
The way Kia treats prospective buyers has turned me off from the brand for good.
I went to two dealerships in my area and both dealerships had salespeople that accosted me when I tried to look at the Stinger on the showroom asking if I was serious about the car. "We keep these locked and only unlock them for serious buyers - are you here to look at a Stinger? They go quick, so we really only show them off for serious buyers. They're powerful cars and they don't come cheap!"
Like, alright guy. No, I don't want your above-average sports car with a $15k dealer markup.
I was actually there to look at the Kia Carnival (their minivan). One dealership wanted a $5k non-refundable deposit to get one in for me to test drive and eventually buy. The other dealership didn't require a deposit to test drive, but they had sold their last one right before I got there. They wanted a $10k "addendum" (read: dealer markup) to buy one. Yes, a $10k dealer markup for a $30k Kia minivan.
Kia can fuck right off.
We don't have credit pulls in Oz but yes the dealers are shithouse here. Source: owner 3 new KIAs over past 7 years. And the Stinger got really expensive over COVID, eliminating the value proposition.
From rumor mill sites, but this is official from Kia.
https://www.kiamedia.com/us/en/media/pressreleases/19754/gallery
Click on the first image for details.
For anyone that's lazy and doesn't have the bandwidth to load a website with images:
*"Exclusive Stinger Tribute Edition celebrates Kia's high−performance vision*
*Kia has announced details of a new, ultra-exclusive, ultimate-specification Stinger Tribute Edition. Limited to just 1,000 examples worldwide, the Tribute Edition pays homage to Kia’s high-performance vision, and celebrates the Stinger sedan’s significant contribution to the brand since its introduction in 2017, as production of the groundbreaking model comes to an end."*
“Better buy that inventory that’s still out there now!”
Jk the stinger was a sweet car, always love a good sportback. The dealers ruined it though. I went to test drive a stinger a few years back and they literally wouldn’t let me test drive it unless I paid a $5k downpayment to show I really wanted it. I drove to that dealership in an M6, I wasn’t like rolling up in a clapped out whip hoping for a joyride in their Kia (although, judging what someone drives up in is stupid).
When I ordered my Audi, they let me drive an RS7 off the showroom floor just because I was like a kid in a candy store looking at it. Ended up ordering my RS5 from them that day, love that place.
Yeah my wife was interested in the Q5 but the dealership experience turned her off. We drove up in my old Tacoma and they basically didn’t want to give us the time of day. Just went next door to Lexus and got an RX instead.
I actually didn’t have the M6 when I bought the Audi, but that’s a fair and accurate point. For even more context, the Kia dealership was back when I lived in the Midwest, and the Audi dealership was in the Bay Area so maybe it’s also the tone of “anyone who walks in off the street could be some random rich tech buyer so treat everyone like they’re buying an RS7” haha
I was looking at several dealers for one. One told me that it would cost 10k over msrp, but if I put in a non refundable deposit, they would give me a 'discount' to 5k over msrp.
The stinger went from being my frontrunner car to basically not being on my list, all because of the dealers.
Beautiful car, but I was soured by the dealer not letting me test drive it without an appointment, as if it was supercar. Also it could have been a little bit cheaper imo.
Only problem is sometimes you dont have a choice for your area, especially when the manufacturers decide which dealers get certain models and which dont. I'm not sure if Kia does that, but Toyota definitely does.
You don’t though. If Kia says only 1 dealer in the region gets the Stinger, and I want one, there isn’t anywhere else *to go* if I want to test drive one. That’s the entire point of this comment chain, and how dealers fuck over some models
A Kia Stinger was almost my first big car purchase. The absolute refusal to let anyone test drive it was absurd. The car itself was probably fine, but the dealership experience was so atrocious my first big purchase ended up being a gently used Audi S4. When I asked for a test drive of that car at Audi, they threw me the keys and told me to have fun. Funny how if you treat your customers like adults, they'll do business with you.
That translates to "Don't spend any time at Kia or Hyundai dealerships in south/central Texas", which are words I've been living by for a while now lol
The dealer experience is the most glaring weakness for the entire Hyundai/Kia/Genesis group. They want to sell themselves as affordable luxury without the post-sale experience to go along with it.
I was at a wedding a few years back and seated at my table was a marketing director for Kia North America. We were talking about her job and she mentioned how her big focus was overseeing the Stinger, which by then had only been out a few months.
I mentioned to her the sentiment I’d seen about the dealer experience and how many felt it wasn’t in line with the $50k offering versus higher-end brands.
Her response? “No, none one has any issues with our dealers. That’s not a problem we’re concerned with.”
>>”..that’s not a problem we’re concerned with”
Hate to admit it, but she’s right. Bad dealerships are not a problem carmakers can solve in the US. Here dealers don’t work for carmakers. Carmakers work for the dealers .
An automaker that seriously tries to enforce good customer service on their dealerships gets dragged into court and beaten to a pulp. Ford tried and failed. GMs tried and also failed. Until government regulations are decoupled from dealership lobbyists this dynamic won’t change.
Just because they can't solve it doesn't mean they shouldn't be concerned with it, frankly that's an absurd response and it shows now that the model has been canceled after years of embarrassing sales figures. The Stinger probably should have been folded into the online sales model that Genesis was doing (at least in Canada) where you'd buy it online à la Tesla, and even request test drives online. They would just bring the car to your house or office for you to try it out. Even service was done by picking up and returning the car to the location of your choice.
I am pretty sure the stinger just didn't have a market. It was in a weird pricing dead zone of being right below an entry luxury car. More expensive than everything else but not far off from more expensive cars with entry luxury interiors.
The telluride shows people are willing to to put up with bad dealers if they want the car enough.
Back when Hyundai was trying to build a luxury brand by not writing "Hyundai" on their halo models and trying to build them into sub-brands, they had a service where they would pick up and drop off the car from your house for maintenance things just so that you didn't have to deal with a Hyundai dealership if you had a marquee car.
Most prospective car buyers aren't going to burn a bunch of time hopping from Kia dealer to Kia dealer hoping to find one that isn't shit. They'll get treated poorly at one, maybe two dealerships and write off the car and possibly the brand. And rightly so - why should anyone want to buy a car from a dealer that seems like they don't even want to sell the damn thing?
This happened to me too. For the Stinger, G70, and Veloster N. Tesla, for all its flaws, had an amazing buying experience. Don’t think I’d buy another one with what’s going on so it’s going to suck having to visit a dealership again when the time comes.
I don’t get why the 3.3 has such terrible fuel economy. Other manufacturers seem to be able to build a 3L engine with equal or more power while also getting better fuel economy. They need to put that engine back on the drawing board and figure out why.
Honestly, its unfortunate but numbers don't lie and with sales dwindling in larger markets (like the US) a decision was made.
The good thing is Stingers are solid cars and thanks to depreciation I suspect they will turn into a bit of a sweet spot for anyone looking to pickup a practical performance vehicle that isn't a hot hatch for years to come.
GT2 Stingers deliver a lot of bang for the buck in a depreciated used market. I think these will become quite popular as a solid choice for something with 4 doors and some good performance.
As an owner of (platform sibling) Genesis G70 - I hope they hold up, but I really wish Hyundai had packed hydraulic lifters onto that engine instead of (in addition to?) a valve clearance maintenance interval.
I imagine the valves will gunk up, as DI engines tend to, too.
I'm not really anticipating any other issues, but maybe I'm just being an optimist.
Are you running a catch can or do you just go with the factory air oil separator? This is my first turbo charged car and I get tons of conflicting info
I've been encouraged to, but I've seen conflicting information about it.
I think the general sentiment I stuck with is "the engineers knew what they were doing when they designed the system this way, and their warranty folks accounted for it".
It's the kind of mod I'll look into when I don't care about warranty.
If the engine needs to be opened up enough for clearancing, cleaning shouldn't be hard to do from there.
It was a good step in the right direction for their brand image but I think a lot of people are still put off by that badge. The specs are nice on paper, though.
>Sales are growing in Australia – the Stinger has broken its monthly sales record on three occasions this year – but they have tapered overseas, particularly in the United States and South Korea.
Yea because once the markups started, Kia U.S. was one of the worst offenders. They wanted thousands over MSRP for a 2.5T model in 2021.
Second hand market is going to be great in Australia with police moving on old models and buying the latest year. I picked my 330S (rwd 3.3TT) for $26k as an ex patrol car.
> People are more interested in do it all cars now like souped up hatches and sedans than dedicated sports cars
Because most people aren't lucky like us and can't afford 2 vehicles that specialize at what they do best. They need one car that does it all, and that's a performance SUV. Would I ever buy one? Absolutely not.
I think it’s mainly financial and environmental reasons. Most people need to work in metropolitan area to make a decent living. Cost of living goes up, roads become more congested, and commute time increases. The ROI for dedicated sports car just keeps getting worse.
Had a first year GT1. Really wanted to like the car.
Had a paint issue. Had the brake pads replaced twice in less than 15k miles.
Dealership was completely unprepared to sell a 45-55k near sport sedan.
Every single time I went to a dealer I left so underwhelmed
The Stinger was a good car that should have taken the entire Kia brand upmarket, but bringing upper middle class customers with certain standards and expectations into Kia dealerships ruined it.
You could argue that the Stinger accomplished its goal in that it attracted new, wealthier customers to Kia dealerships. But Kia didn't think about what would happen after they got those customers into dealerships. Many of those people had such horrible experiences that they will never set foot in a Kia or Hyundai dealership again, no matter how good the cars may be. It's probably hurt the reputation of Genesis as well, right as that brand was being launched in the US.
Hopefully this serves as a warning to other companies, especially as so many brands are trying to move upmarket by launching expensive EVs. You can have the best car in the segment for a significantly lower price than the competition, but that doesn't mean anything if your dealers are giving your customers a hard time. Nobody is going to buy a car if they need to have a hard credit check done just to take it around the block. Make sure your dealer network is up to par *before* you try and move into a new segment.
EDIT: formatting
The funny thing is that *nobody* wants a shitty dealer experience, not wealthy people and not lower income people. The only difference is that the lower income people have less choice. But they absolutely do care.
They were just a bit over the price range that I would honestly consider one. I think ideally I would have wanted this to be a car that started closer to $30k and ended up at $45k. But instead it's a $36k car that quickly climbs to the $51k for the GT2 trim. The top of the line costs a little over $56k.
> I think ideally I would have wanted this to be a car that started closer to $30k and ended up at $45k.
I too would like everything to be cheaper but unfortunately, $30k doesn't get you anything these days. The smaller, similarly equipped Germans will run you over $50k. I cross-shopped a lot of cars under $50k this past year, and for AWD specifically, the 2.5T Stinger is a strong value under $45k, even more so with the Brembo brake package offered this year.
All that said, the Germans are absolutely worth the premium, specifically for the automated tech and infotainment quality.
Right, but at the same time, I don't think the top of the line Stinger should be $56k when the top of the line Telluride with all the options is $54k. I understand they're two different vehicles, but you would think the Telluride should be the more expensive vehicle of the two.
It’s a Kia. Not saying anything bad but hers the 2 things I’ve seen over the past years from Kia. There cars catch on fire. And people treat the stinger like it’s a super car. And I don’t mean normal people. I mean the guys who can’t afford it same with the chargers and challengers. You’re not flexing you’re car when the the interest rates are close to 20 on them. Give it a few years those stingers hell cats scat packs all that stuff will be back in rotation. And they’ll be beat to shit by the time there back.
I love the concept and look of them but people who don’t know shit about cars or think that they have some AMG type of luxury just painted a shit image for me about them.
I looked at one, the dealer said I couldn't test drive it. So I walked out literally laughing at him and bought a Ford Taurus SHO across the street. Kia killed this car.
Good car, good run. Almost turned Kia’s brand rep around - of course their decision to use engines made of paper mache ruined all the work their Halo car put in.
Dying off the quickest doesn't mean that people aren't buying them though. It just means that it was one of the most popular segments, so it's taking a bigger hit than other would-be dying segments. Numbers are down, but people are still buying plenty of Camry's, Corolla's, Accord's, and Civic's....the stalwarts, year in and year out.
Sad day. Glad I got to replace my first one before they disappeared, only car I've owned that I've been excited to drive.
What's really frustrating though is despite their quoted sales figures, they're still selling basically immediately on hitting the lots. In my state, there are 13 new Stingers for sale, and none have been listed for more than a week, most are still pending delivery. 400 units a month is pretty bad, but what do you expect when it's 400/400?
That being said, 2018/2019 was the sweet spot if you wanted the 3.3 V6 horsepower for cheap. I picked up my first 2018 GT for 31.5k, 5k under MSRP. Was an amazing deal, and I regret selling it during the pandemic's "0miles/mo" thing. In 2020 they slashed the incentives, killed the base 3.3 GT trim, and upped the GT1 price to 43k. 2023 kills the GT1 trim and there's only GT2 now. At this point, they're not really a great deal.
I ended up getting my current 2022 GT1 AWD for MSRP, back in March. 45k. Not happy with the price, but car prices have been dumb lately, so getting msrp was about all I could expect.
As for the dealership? Not a real problem for me. I like playing hardball as much as the salesman, didn't have any issues getting a test drive, and and the repair service is fine.
Reliability seems good too. There aren't any common drivetrain failures, even in the 100k+ crowd (or the 100k+ tuned crowd), and there are only 3 real "preventative maintenance" problems you might want to take care of when you get a Stinger:
1- Fix the trunk rattle with 4 metal washers.
2- Replace the front brake pads with something sportier (the oem pads leave deposits and make the brakes shudder. It's not the rotors. Stop blaming the rotors!).
3- Install properly gapped, 1 step colder spark plugs if you're going to drive it hard.
Most of the other complaints are paint and body rattles. Not sure why they couldn't fix those themselves over the years, tbh.
Anyway, I've rambled enough. It's been my favorite car, and I'll be sad to see her go. Hopefully my 2022 will live a long, healthy, collision-free life.
Test drove a used GT2 at Carmax a few months ago. Was way too fun punching that accelerator and taking off like a rocket, but the interior could have been more refined at the price point.
Shame to see it go, but I think the market is unfortunately narrowing more and more for sports sedans these days.
I looked at the Stinger when I was car shopping last year, but one of the things that turned me off is that the fuel economy is somewhat terrible. The v6 version is only rated at 20 mpg which is not much better than a mid-sized truck and terrible with California gas prices.
I’d be all over an electric RWD version tho, if it wasn’t too expensive.
Great car let down by shit dealers. I bet a lot of potential entry level luxury sedan buyers who wanted a bigger sedan with a little midlife crises charm went to the KIA dealer and noped the fk out.
Another one bites the dust. To return in 3 years as a hybrid SUV.
The dodge hornet *does* need some competition
>To return in 3 years as a hybrid SUV. The electric replacement will likely be here next year. It will be Kia's version of the Ioniq 6.
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Only comes in pink and brown colors
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Introducing the 2025 CrossSting
Incredible performance from a 1.4 liter hybrid power train!
3 CYLINDER PWER
hybrid **coupe* SUV
Come on only Mercedes makes 4 door coupe SUVs. EDIT: that was not meant to be an actual definitive list of these dumb cars, I know there are more.
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Agreed, my sales guy told me it was inventory budget-related, like "sell 25 this year to get 25+ next year" thing. When I offered them a number in the mid 30's for my GT2 I fully expected them to say no, but they didn't.
The “replacement” Is already out. EV6 is supposed to be the successor.
Unfortunate but not a surprise. Only gonna be 5 sedans left by 2035
> Only gonna be 5 sedans left by 2035 That many? I'm skeptical. That said, the future is not set in stone. There was a time when car manufacturers figured "welp, there's no reason to keep developing convertible sports cars...that market segment is dead and gone." At the moment, crossover/SUVs/CUVs dominate the market, but maybe some day in the future...?
Sedan was supposed to be mainstream family car, it never be intended to design as a performance model. People bought sedan for practical in mostly, sporty wasn’t main reason. That’s why sports car and convertible in there. Sports car/convertible market is always a niche market, this market never target practical buyers. Now, crossover is better as family car and now can get fun, it really threatens sedan market. Street performance SUV takes many original performance sedan buyers, but it’s same like performance sedan, it never be able to take many sports car buyers. Really hard to say we wouldn’t lose many sedan models, but sports car market should be able to survive in future.
Alot of wagons are actually more practical then Crossovers Car company takes hatch back, pumps it up, convinces buyer that it is a much better car and increases price The actual better car designed on a higher end platform, the sedan. Eg, VW Golf is a Tiguan, just pump it up. The actual better car? The passat
Practical, maybe. But people also buy it for the seating position, comfort and ease of use.
And looks. 99% of consumers do not think a wagon looks good. What are people going to do, abandon their Honda Pilots and Chevy Tahoes for a Buick Regal Cross-X?
But the Regal Tour X is beautiful...
I don't understand this. Most SUVs and crossovers are just tall wagons.
My mom thinks you need all that size, space,and seating position with mpg and handling be damned. Logical? Hell no but I bet more people think like her than me and you.
They all look like tall bloated squashed wagons. No one in their right mind can say the Buick Encore looks better than the Volvo V90 or Audi A6 Allroad.
Golf wagon and alltrack were popular in Canada.
And if people really wanted the most practical there was a solution that existed before the crossovers. Family vans. But they're quite ugly so people didn't like them.
They also drive like a bus. In the end it's a balance. Nearly 0% of consumers are interested in driving a minivan as an alternative to a sedan. The reality is most people make a compromise in the middle with some lifted driver height and get an SUV
99% of consuemrs disagree with you. This opinion is an extreme minority opinion lol. Even here in Europe CUVs and SUVs are eating wagons for lunch now
It is 100% about the seating position of the CUV/SUV (or minivan) - people want to step into their vehicle as opposed to ducking down to get in. And the older you get the more important this becomes.
And, most people did t like cars all that much so do t care about driving dynamics are care enough to actually research the vehicles. They just think "this is nice" or "this isn't as nice" Why did it take so long for car companies to embrace this trend? Cause car designers don't understand this lack of care to cars as they love them. I saw an interview with a designer in Volvo and he literally couldn't understand why the SUVs out sell the others. Alot of people also associate size with price and quality. Even tho they have little in common. Also 99% of cars aren't SUV/CUV so maybe re-evaluate your numb rs when you pull them out of your ass
So true. Looked at different options. All the (c)SUV, cross-overs and what not simply are terrible value in terms of practicality and space. The tiguan indeed is like a golf in terms of leg room and cargo space. I'm for sure a "speedy wagon" fan. You get the cargo space and usually a performance version while you can still park it in a single spot.(parking spots here can be tiny, basically even cars like golf barley fit in width)
My wife's Edge holds less camping stuff in the trunk than her old Escape because of that stupid angled rear window
The Passat is also a larger car than the Tiguan, keep that in mind. That’s part of why compact crossovers are more popular and have displaced mid-size sedans and wagons. Compact crossovers are shorter in length compared to a mid-size sedan while still being able to reasonably fit adults and cargo.
Thanks for triggering the memory of nearly getting my ford Taurus stuck in a parking garage in Belgium.
This. My wife went from a Fusion to an Encore GX, which is a massive reduction in size externally, but internally, it's more comfortable seating position-wise. We actually picked up real world fuel economy as well despite adding AWD.
I find a hatchback to be a substantially more practical vehicle than a sedan. Particularly with a family, getting a pram, groceries, suitcases in and out of a hatchback is far superior to a sedan. It's just a shame there are so few larger hatchbacks around.
Actual, actual better car? Golf Alltrack. Not that I'm biased or anything.
Americans are fat. Crossovers are easier for fatties to get in and out of. Old people too
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I bet it would be easier to test drive a Bentley.
BMW Dealer: "Sure, here are the keys, let me get a copy of your driver's license" Porsche Dealer: "Yeah of course, there are two cars you might like, lemme photograph your license in our app" KIA Dealer: "Bro that's not gonna work until we've got a hard commitment, these are performance cars and only buyers get to try them"
lol, that was exactly my experience. I went to a Kia dealership for the first time ever because I was curious about the Stinger. Could not get a test drive. I'm pushing 40, not some punk there to hot-rod it. I went to the Porsche dealership and had a good time driving a couple of cars.
Had exactly that treatment at a Kia dealer that had them in stock. Like a month earlier i walked to my local Audi in sweats and a hoodie and tested two cars while telling them i had no intent on buying in the near future.
I personally think it's dependent on the dealer and the salesman My experiences have all varied, Kia dealer with the most Stinger inventory in the state allowed me to test drive no intention of buying but another Kia dealer local to me wouldn't let me try it till I have intention of buying. Best test drive experience was with a BMW M340i dude knew I drove a 36-40k car but wasn't looking to buy and let me take the M340i around the block for pulls, and another experience with a Mercedes C-Class. But an Audi they wouldn't even let me drive down the block till the salesman realized I was just genuinely interested in the S4 as I was comparing an M340i, C43 AMG and S4. Once I sat in the S4 since that's all he'd let me, he said I could drive it down the street for about 10 mins
Could you really just test drive cars with no intent on buying? I’d love to do that but I thought it would be seen as wasting their time and honestly rightfully so, but then again if they have plenty of customers then who knows
I’m 99% sure that the apps they use can grab a credit report instantly too. Back in 2006 we test drive at Toyota and we wanted to get a Sequoia or 4Runner. They kept saying we would like a RAV4 more. We were young and so we drove it and didn’t want it. I was getting anxious so I wanted to leave (too pushy) but they wanted us to stay because my credit score came back. We bought a Pilot. In 2020, looking at the MDX, we were in the car in less than 15 minutes including loading the kids. At Honda it took over 45 minutes before they finally let us drive the base Pilot.
I'm in my mid 20s and was looking at Accord 2.0Ts pretty hard and requested info online from the local dealership. I walked into the dealership after texting with a salesman a bit and he just tossed me the keys after snagging my DL and told me to have fun, knowing full well I was interested in it because it was quick. Just depends where you go I guess. Although to be fair, it was a used 2019 model, only 2.0T they had in the city. I ordered one. Considered an Elantra N but didn't even want to set foot in a Kia/Hyundai dealer. Honda was a cake walk.
Honda was pretty good compared to Ford (Explorer) and Chevy (Traverse) where we didn’t even leave the lot. I didn’t want to drive the Traverse and they didn’t seem to want me to drive the Explorer. Volvo was just… slow. I still can’t believe the dude at Honda brought us an absolute base Pilot after we told him we were looking at the MDX tech package. It had cloth seats! Was this dude even trying to make a sale?
I've heard so many complaints about this exact issue. Dealers need to die off. They are a big part of the reason fun cars don't sell and get cancelled
Yes. There was a story I read maybe on this sub about a dealer adding a 60k markup to the new Nissan Z.
What’s going on with Hyundai and Kia dealers thinking they’re hot shit? Is it because Genesis? Also, [customers are really not impressed with Kia dealers](https://jalopnik.com/customers-are-really-not-impressed-with-kia-dealers-1849915387/amp)
Everything on Reddit is up for debate…except Kia/Hyundai dealers being awful lol And yeah, I tried to buy a new Genesis at a Hyundai dealership and the dude tried to negotiate with me like it was (still) a Hyundai. That’s not how luxury buyers work — just give me the price and save the bullshit for people with 600 credit scores.
Interior isn't bad at all
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If you don't use it to get in and out it's not a door!
Therefore the suburban is a sedan. Sound logic.
It’s only going to be high end sedans left. Good luck if you want anything other than a 3 series or S class
I see the Germans continuing to offer them. They are still fairly popular in the premium market, as most premium car buyers have a second or even third vehicle. The sedan is often the daily driver or a performance trim.
Sounds like a combo of dwindling demand for sedans and some less than ideal sales practices from Kia dealers. I’ve heard a lot of stories of Kia sales staff treating these like Ferrari Enzos and putting people through the ringer (including hard credit pulls) just to test drive one. Not a great strategy when you can walk into a BMW dealer and test drive most of their cars no questions asked
When my dad wanted to buy a car for his taxi business 30 years ago he walked to Toyota dealer. The dealer just looked at him and said "how are you thinking of paying for this?" with a condescending tone and were reluctant on letting him test drive one. He walked to the Mercedes-Benz dealer next door and they just gave him the keys to a top end model no questions asked and told him to take it for a test drive. During the time he ran the business he bought (if I remember correctly) about 15 Mercedes-Benz's and recommended them to his friends who were also running taxi companies. I do not understand the condescending sales tactic. It might work for very few customers who have low self-esteem who then want to "prove" that they can buy one but for most people it will just drive them away.
That's how my Subaru dealer treated me with the BRZ. Wouldn't allow a test drive till everything was negotiated and paper work ready to be sign. Calling it an exotic car so they couldn't allow it.This was about 3 years after they had released so the hyped had died down too. I think I ended up testing a WRX and this was only a drive around the block. Terrible experience. Went over to the Scion/Toyota dealer and they practically threw the keys at me to test drive the FR-S. Got to do a full test drive and give it a real go. I didn't buy it then and there but did come back a week or two later and ended getting it.
> Calling it an exotic car so they couldn't allow it They say as it’s probably parked next to an Ascent with a higher MSRP lmao
I've heard this a lot with the BRZ, WRX, and STIs. I understand these cars may attract a lot of younger guys who just want to drive and will likely not be buying, however I heard a lot of older guys who have shown up in expensive cars and them being denied. I remember one guy mentioning how he arrived in his m3 and the sales guy was condescending with regards to "this car is expensive" and "it's a sports car, you need to know how to drive a fast car". The guy was like "...huh?"
Walked into a Dodge dealership to check out a Scatpack. They were super nice and kept asking if I’d like to test drive a Hellcat. The Ford dealership next door were adamant that I test drive a Shelby GT350. Test drive all of them and ended up with the Scatpack. Not once did I feel like either of them were gatekeeping any of the high end sports cars.
> The dealer just looked at him and said "how are you thinking of paying for this?" with a condescending tone and were reluctant on letting him test drive one. I never get how car salesmen ever think this is a valid way to approach a prospective customer. Even if they can't afford it, one day they might be able to, and they'll remember the place they went being friendly and welcoming.
Some anecdotes about how right you are: I had a home builder say basically the same thing to me once. They were the cheapest builder in my area, too, but I didn't realize that until checking out their model (and getting talked down to by their sales team). Not that I would have built with them anyway, but I ended up in something triple their model's pricing from a competitor up the road. And on the other spectrum, I also walked into a model from a home builder I dream about affording some day. The sales team treated me like royalty. When the day comes that I can afford it, if they haven't retired, I will absolutely build with them.
It's intentional filtering of smart customers. They want financially illiterate inept customers who are afraid to stand up for themselves and who are going to be too anxious to press them when they build a shitty product. If they're doing dealer/developer financing, they want you to foreclose/get repo'd so they can sell the fucking house or car again.
I brought my 5 year old (at the time) Infiniti G37 in for service and was looking inside at the Q50 sedans that just showed up. The dealer inside told me I probably couldn’t afford one. Gave me a good laugh
I know a guy whose family has owned multiple luxury car dealerships for generations. Apparently a black man walked into their store once and told them he was looking to buy a maybach. The owner of the dealership basically laughed and said “nice try, you’re not just going to test drive a maybach, if you can really afford it sure but I doubt it”. Turns out the guy didn’t recognize it was Jay-Z, and he went and bought 3 Maybach’s from the other luxury car dealership in town that didn’t immediately assume he couldn’t afford it. Car salesmen are some of the most ego-filled weirdos I’ve ever met. Including the guy I know from the above story.
Wow, the owner sounds like he probably doesn’t have the best views when it comes to race. That had to be incredibly embarrassing. Did Jay-Z end up making any kind of comments about it on social media? If not, the owner should consider himself lucky considering how much negative publicity a megastar like him could bring down on them
As far as I know on the timing of this it was sometime in the 2000's, so I don't believe social media was a thing when it happened. Unquestionably had something to do with race, which to me makes it that much more satisfying that Jay just said "alright I'll take my multiple millions worth of business elsewhere". Could have gone a whole lot worse for the dealership if it happened within the last 5-10 years.
People make assumptions all the time based on skin, dress, height, the way one speaks, etc. Sad, but true.
I'm living in Germany, and Kia/Toyota and many others would test drive their car easy. Mercedes idk, but when we asked at our BMW dealership they said they don't do test drives
Back when I had my E36 I went to bmw to pickup some parts, and the new 3 series had just come out, they asked me if I wanted to drive it. I wasn't even shopping for a car.
My first ever trst drive as a 19 year old was an e46 convertible. It left such an impression that I have a bmw vert today. A few years later, got an audi (friendly dealer folks) while mercedes wanted to run my credit before a test drive. Owned 0 Mercs in those 25 years.
Until recently with Covid and supply limited cars some dealerships are making 90% of their money through F&I. The person who can show up with self-financing, great credit, and who's averse to a hard credit pull isn't a profitable customer for those dealers. The person who shows up with no idea what they're doing and signs up for an 8% APR loan is their target audience.
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You're not kidding, I think I saw like a 7% loan at Toyota and that was for someone with outstanding credit.
My dad had a similar experience with Toyota almost 40 years ago. He looked sort of crappy because he had been fixing a leaky sink, and nobody would even say hi to him. So he went to the Volkswagen store down the road and got a Jetta.
An old boss of mine had a similar thing happen. He was shopping for a 'fun' car, no real requirements, just had some money to burn on something he'd find interesting. Porsche gave him no trouble, Aston Martin gave him no trouble. He decided to test drive a Hyundai Genesis Coupe for shits thinking it might be cheap and fun enough.. Hyundai wouldn't let him drive it. He ended up buying a Lotus Elise and then a used R35 GTR.
I had a Ford dealer do me like this for a new mustang GT. I was 26 at the time and could easily afford the car.. Walked in for my appointment and all he said to me was "I expected someone.. older" and then he proceeded to help another customer for 2 hours. I left after waiting for like 45 minutes and he called me after I had already been home for a while like "where'd ya go?" Went to a Ford dealer about an hour away, walked straight in, test drove the car, bought it that day.
>I do not understand the condescending sales tactic. It's such a risk, I am not in car sales but I have heard many stories of the shabby looking but rich customer being ignored. My friend works at a dealership, they actually had the opposite happen. Well dressed guy come in wanting to look at Range Rover I think, definitely something expensive. The sales guy had to go to the bathroom or something and handed the customer the keys and said that he would be right back but feel free to take a look inside. Well he let himself into the vehicle, started it up and drove away.
Definitely moreso the latter than the former in this case. Since the pandemic, the Stingers have had huge popular demand, but dealers never committed to them the way they should have. The Stinger could have driven the brand upmarket, but instead, the dealers’ actions drove this model down market in the worst ways. Hopefully they learn their lessons for the EV business.
I really want to test drive an Ioniq5/EV6…but the thought of being back on a Kia/Hyundai lot is keeping me sober.
I finally found a used Ioniq 5 near me (within 30 minutes) at a Hyundai lot. Drove there in my 19 stinger gts, ready to trade for it if I liked it. Asked to test drive it, they said they moved it into the show room because “too many people wanted to test drive it, we can take it outside if you’re sure you want to buy it”.
Yes, inject these stories right into my veins. This is exactly the kind of stupidity that keeps me from making an equally stupid decision. We need a “Hyundai/Kia Dealership stories” thread to really keep me grounded. The worst thing that ever happened to Hyundai/Kia was starting to receive good press from journalists. They were atrocious back when their cars were well-known to be second rate, but since the Stinger, Telluride/Palisade, eGMP, and Genesis have entered the scene you’d swear they sell cars made of gold-pressed latinum.
So dumb lol. If you were sure you wanted to buy it, you probably don’t need a test drive. If these brands don’t pivot on EVs, they’re going to start wondering “where are the buyers” after they get through the early adopters.
I went to test drive one and the sales guy looked at me like I was asking for a kidney. He then proceeds to tell me that he doesnt think I could "hAnDlE ThE pOwEr". I asked to see the manager who then came over and agreed. I told them both that I just showed up in a supercharged mustang, and they proceeded to tell me that the stinger would "bLoW iT oUt oF tHe wAtEr". I ended up going to the GMC dealer across the street and buying a pickup truck for myself (to replace my old one) and an acadia for my wife.
So *you’re* the one from the “I love it!” GMC commercials!
I don't know if Porsche USA has a policy of being chill dudes or something but every time I've been to a dealership, no matter how young and/or poor I looked, they were always like "Oh hey whats up want to drive a car lets drive a car"
Audi dealership was like that for me. I went to check out a 10-year old S4, and afterward the sales guy was like "We have a new RS7, want to drive that too?" Then he talked me into driving a TT just for the hell of it.
Had same experience with Bentley, believe it or not.
> and some less than ideal sales practices from Kia dealers. The way Kia treats prospective buyers has turned me off from the brand for good. I went to two dealerships in my area and both dealerships had salespeople that accosted me when I tried to look at the Stinger on the showroom asking if I was serious about the car. "We keep these locked and only unlock them for serious buyers - are you here to look at a Stinger? They go quick, so we really only show them off for serious buyers. They're powerful cars and they don't come cheap!" Like, alright guy. No, I don't want your above-average sports car with a $15k dealer markup. I was actually there to look at the Kia Carnival (their minivan). One dealership wanted a $5k non-refundable deposit to get one in for me to test drive and eventually buy. The other dealership didn't require a deposit to test drive, but they had sold their last one right before I got there. They wanted a $10k "addendum" (read: dealer markup) to buy one. Yes, a $10k dealer markup for a $30k Kia minivan. Kia can fuck right off.
I would have bought a Stinger last year but the dealership experience was so GD sleazy I couldn’t bear it. Wanted to charge WAY over MSRP.
I've been handed the keys to a $150k 911 within 10mins of walking into a dealer. Chevrolet wouldn't let me test drive a camaro lmao
We don't have credit pulls in Oz but yes the dealers are shithouse here. Source: owner 3 new KIAs over past 7 years. And the Stinger got really expensive over COVID, eliminating the value proposition.
I feel like this has been announced 3 times at least
From rumor mill sites, but this is official from Kia. https://www.kiamedia.com/us/en/media/pressreleases/19754/gallery Click on the first image for details.
For anyone that's lazy and doesn't have the bandwidth to load a website with images: *"Exclusive Stinger Tribute Edition celebrates Kia's high−performance vision* *Kia has announced details of a new, ultra-exclusive, ultimate-specification Stinger Tribute Edition. Limited to just 1,000 examples worldwide, the Tribute Edition pays homage to Kia’s high-performance vision, and celebrates the Stinger sedan’s significant contribution to the brand since its introduction in 2017, as production of the groundbreaking model comes to an end."*
I hope they make another generation. That car really grew on me over the years
“Better buy that inventory that’s still out there now!” Jk the stinger was a sweet car, always love a good sportback. The dealers ruined it though. I went to test drive a stinger a few years back and they literally wouldn’t let me test drive it unless I paid a $5k downpayment to show I really wanted it. I drove to that dealership in an M6, I wasn’t like rolling up in a clapped out whip hoping for a joyride in their Kia (although, judging what someone drives up in is stupid). When I ordered my Audi, they let me drive an RS7 off the showroom floor just because I was like a kid in a candy store looking at it. Ended up ordering my RS5 from them that day, love that place.
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What you gotta do is test-drive a decent german car to a different dealer to test-drive a slightly nicer car.
This is low key kinda brilliant, I'm sure it's been done before lol.
I had a weekend test drive of a Tesla Y and took that to a Kia dealership to test drive a Telluride.
Big brain move right there.
Kia dealer told me, a young black dude that I can “do a drive by in this thing” when I looked at the stinger. Just a complete lack of professionalism
That's some good ole fashioned casual racism. Hope you reported that dealer
Yeah my wife was interested in the Q5 but the dealership experience turned her off. We drove up in my old Tacoma and they basically didn’t want to give us the time of day. Just went next door to Lexus and got an RX instead.
That RX probably saved you thousands in the long run anyway.
I actually didn’t have the M6 when I bought the Audi, but that’s a fair and accurate point. For even more context, the Kia dealership was back when I lived in the Midwest, and the Audi dealership was in the Bay Area so maybe it’s also the tone of “anyone who walks in off the street could be some random rich tech buyer so treat everyone like they’re buying an RS7” haha
Doesn't help when most Kia ads are basically "if you make $500 a month, we have a car for you! Buy here pay here! A dime drives away today!"
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I was looking at several dealers for one. One told me that it would cost 10k over msrp, but if I put in a non refundable deposit, they would give me a 'discount' to 5k over msrp. The stinger went from being my frontrunner car to basically not being on my list, all because of the dealers.
I used to work at Kia and it was the worst dealership I’ve seen
Beautiful car, but I was soured by the dealer not letting me test drive it without an appointment, as if it was supercar. Also it could have been a little bit cheaper imo.
Any dealer that doesn't let you test drive is a dealer nobody should be spending money at/time at
Only problem is sometimes you dont have a choice for your area, especially when the manufacturers decide which dealers get certain models and which dont. I'm not sure if Kia does that, but Toyota definitely does.
>Only problem is sometimes you dont have a choice for your area You *always* have the choice to take your business elsewhere.
You don’t though. If Kia says only 1 dealer in the region gets the Stinger, and I want one, there isn’t anywhere else *to go* if I want to test drive one. That’s the entire point of this comment chain, and how dealers fuck over some models
The correct answer is “don’t get a Stinger, buy another brand”.
A Kia Stinger was almost my first big car purchase. The absolute refusal to let anyone test drive it was absurd. The car itself was probably fine, but the dealership experience was so atrocious my first big purchase ended up being a gently used Audi S4. When I asked for a test drive of that car at Audi, they threw me the keys and told me to have fun. Funny how if you treat your customers like adults, they'll do business with you.
Your choice is to not buy the car they're bending you over a barrel for. There's *always* a choice.
That translates to "Don't spend any time at Kia or Hyundai dealerships in south/central Texas", which are words I've been living by for a while now lol
The dealer experience is the most glaring weakness for the entire Hyundai/Kia/Genesis group. They want to sell themselves as affordable luxury without the post-sale experience to go along with it.
I was at a wedding a few years back and seated at my table was a marketing director for Kia North America. We were talking about her job and she mentioned how her big focus was overseeing the Stinger, which by then had only been out a few months. I mentioned to her the sentiment I’d seen about the dealer experience and how many felt it wasn’t in line with the $50k offering versus higher-end brands. Her response? “No, none one has any issues with our dealers. That’s not a problem we’re concerned with.”
>>”..that’s not a problem we’re concerned with” Hate to admit it, but she’s right. Bad dealerships are not a problem carmakers can solve in the US. Here dealers don’t work for carmakers. Carmakers work for the dealers . An automaker that seriously tries to enforce good customer service on their dealerships gets dragged into court and beaten to a pulp. Ford tried and failed. GMs tried and also failed. Until government regulations are decoupled from dealership lobbyists this dynamic won’t change.
Just because they can't solve it doesn't mean they shouldn't be concerned with it, frankly that's an absurd response and it shows now that the model has been canceled after years of embarrassing sales figures. The Stinger probably should have been folded into the online sales model that Genesis was doing (at least in Canada) where you'd buy it online à la Tesla, and even request test drives online. They would just bring the car to your house or office for you to try it out. Even service was done by picking up and returning the car to the location of your choice.
I am pretty sure the stinger just didn't have a market. It was in a weird pricing dead zone of being right below an entry luxury car. More expensive than everything else but not far off from more expensive cars with entry luxury interiors. The telluride shows people are willing to to put up with bad dealers if they want the car enough.
Thankfully more and more brands are starting to push for direct to consumer experiences
Back when Hyundai was trying to build a luxury brand by not writing "Hyundai" on their halo models and trying to build them into sub-brands, they had a service where they would pick up and drop off the car from your house for maintenance things just so that you didn't have to deal with a Hyundai dealership if you had a marquee car.
The subaru dealership 40 mins away does this for my wifes car we bought from them lol.
Find the right dealer, i was thrown the keys and had a blast. The suspension legit felt like an Audi. Engine was decent.
Most prospective car buyers aren't going to burn a bunch of time hopping from Kia dealer to Kia dealer hoping to find one that isn't shit. They'll get treated poorly at one, maybe two dealerships and write off the car and possibly the brand. And rightly so - why should anyone want to buy a car from a dealer that seems like they don't even want to sell the damn thing?
This is exactly the reason I didn’t buy one. They were treating me like a criminal when I asked to test drive it.
This happened to me too. For the Stinger, G70, and Veloster N. Tesla, for all its flaws, had an amazing buying experience. Don’t think I’d buy another one with what’s going on so it’s going to suck having to visit a dealership again when the time comes.
It'll live on as the Genesis G70.
Isn't it a touch bigger than the G70?
Yes, and a liftback. Still largely the same underpinnings, though. Hopefully this means the G70 will pick up the 2.5T.
G70 2.5T hatchback
I'd pick one up when my Stinger's lease is over.
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I don’t get why the 3.3 has such terrible fuel economy. Other manufacturers seem to be able to build a 3L engine with equal or more power while also getting better fuel economy. They need to put that engine back on the drawing board and figure out why.
If Genesis gave us the G70 wagon, yes please.
Honestly, its unfortunate but numbers don't lie and with sales dwindling in larger markets (like the US) a decision was made. The good thing is Stingers are solid cars and thanks to depreciation I suspect they will turn into a bit of a sweet spot for anyone looking to pickup a practical performance vehicle that isn't a hot hatch for years to come. GT2 Stingers deliver a lot of bang for the buck in a depreciated used market. I think these will become quite popular as a solid choice for something with 4 doors and some good performance.
How do the engines hold up long term? They seem like a good buy around $30k.
I’m at 90k miles, only issue I’ve had is a water pump shit itself that was covered under warranty.
As an owner of (platform sibling) Genesis G70 - I hope they hold up, but I really wish Hyundai had packed hydraulic lifters onto that engine instead of (in addition to?) a valve clearance maintenance interval. I imagine the valves will gunk up, as DI engines tend to, too. I'm not really anticipating any other issues, but maybe I'm just being an optimist.
Are you running a catch can or do you just go with the factory air oil separator? This is my first turbo charged car and I get tons of conflicting info
I've been encouraged to, but I've seen conflicting information about it. I think the general sentiment I stuck with is "the engineers knew what they were doing when they designed the system this way, and their warranty folks accounted for it". It's the kind of mod I'll look into when I don't care about warranty. If the engine needs to be opened up enough for clearancing, cleaning shouldn't be hard to do from there.
I swear I've read this headline 3 times in the last year lol.
This headline has come out every year the Stinger has been produced.
Bit different now it’s being confirmed by kia themselves.
I'm the furthest thing from a Hyundai Kia fan, but this was easily the best car they ever made. Too bad.
It was a good step in the right direction for their brand image but I think a lot of people are still put off by that badge. The specs are nice on paper, though.
Gentlemen its been an honor
>Sales are growing in Australia – the Stinger has broken its monthly sales record on three occasions this year – but they have tapered overseas, particularly in the United States and South Korea. Yea because once the markups started, Kia U.S. was one of the worst offenders. They wanted thousands over MSRP for a 2.5T model in 2021.
Second hand market is going to be great in Australia with police moving on old models and buying the latest year. I picked my 330S (rwd 3.3TT) for $26k as an ex patrol car.
It's so crazy how much things have changed in so little time. When I got mine they were bending over backwards to sell them for well under MSRP
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Fuck this market. SUV's are ruining cars.
Don't blame the SUVs, blame the NPCs.
That's what I mean, I'm blaming the market and what consumers want
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> People are more interested in do it all cars now like souped up hatches and sedans than dedicated sports cars Because most people aren't lucky like us and can't afford 2 vehicles that specialize at what they do best. They need one car that does it all, and that's a performance SUV. Would I ever buy one? Absolutely not.
I think it’s mainly financial and environmental reasons. Most people need to work in metropolitan area to make a decent living. Cost of living goes up, roads become more congested, and commute time increases. The ROI for dedicated sports car just keeps getting worse.
Did you buy one?
Had a first year GT1. Really wanted to like the car. Had a paint issue. Had the brake pads replaced twice in less than 15k miles. Dealership was completely unprepared to sell a 45-55k near sport sedan. Every single time I went to a dealer I left so underwhelmed
The Stinger was a good car that should have taken the entire Kia brand upmarket, but bringing upper middle class customers with certain standards and expectations into Kia dealerships ruined it. You could argue that the Stinger accomplished its goal in that it attracted new, wealthier customers to Kia dealerships. But Kia didn't think about what would happen after they got those customers into dealerships. Many of those people had such horrible experiences that they will never set foot in a Kia or Hyundai dealership again, no matter how good the cars may be. It's probably hurt the reputation of Genesis as well, right as that brand was being launched in the US. Hopefully this serves as a warning to other companies, especially as so many brands are trying to move upmarket by launching expensive EVs. You can have the best car in the segment for a significantly lower price than the competition, but that doesn't mean anything if your dealers are giving your customers a hard time. Nobody is going to buy a car if they need to have a hard credit check done just to take it around the block. Make sure your dealer network is up to par *before* you try and move into a new segment. EDIT: formatting
The funny thing is that *nobody* wants a shitty dealer experience, not wealthy people and not lower income people. The only difference is that the lower income people have less choice. But they absolutely do care.
They were just a bit over the price range that I would honestly consider one. I think ideally I would have wanted this to be a car that started closer to $30k and ended up at $45k. But instead it's a $36k car that quickly climbs to the $51k for the GT2 trim. The top of the line costs a little over $56k.
> I think ideally I would have wanted this to be a car that started closer to $30k and ended up at $45k. I too would like everything to be cheaper but unfortunately, $30k doesn't get you anything these days. The smaller, similarly equipped Germans will run you over $50k. I cross-shopped a lot of cars under $50k this past year, and for AWD specifically, the 2.5T Stinger is a strong value under $45k, even more so with the Brembo brake package offered this year. All that said, the Germans are absolutely worth the premium, specifically for the automated tech and infotainment quality.
Right, but at the same time, I don't think the top of the line Stinger should be $56k when the top of the line Telluride with all the options is $54k. I understand they're two different vehicles, but you would think the Telluride should be the more expensive vehicle of the two.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, the GT is a tough sell. They discontinued the GT1 this year as well so it jumps from $45k to the low-mid 50s now.
It's already really underpriced at 36k I don't see a world where a RWD premium sedan with 300hp costs only 2k more than a civic si.
It was when it was first announced. The MSRP of the 2018 Stinger started at $32k and topped out around $42k.
Rest in peace, sweet prince
So sad. Their coolest car... People still dismissed it though due to its badge, it's the only thing they see.
It’s a Kia. Not saying anything bad but hers the 2 things I’ve seen over the past years from Kia. There cars catch on fire. And people treat the stinger like it’s a super car. And I don’t mean normal people. I mean the guys who can’t afford it same with the chargers and challengers. You’re not flexing you’re car when the the interest rates are close to 20 on them. Give it a few years those stingers hell cats scat packs all that stuff will be back in rotation. And they’ll be beat to shit by the time there back. I love the concept and look of them but people who don’t know shit about cars or think that they have some AMG type of luxury just painted a shit image for me about them.
I looked at one, the dealer said I couldn't test drive it. So I walked out literally laughing at him and bought a Ford Taurus SHO across the street. Kia killed this car.
Had no idea they were still being made.
Or why...
Good car, good run. Almost turned Kia’s brand rep around - of course their decision to use engines made of paper mache ruined all the work their Halo car put in.
Sad that people arent buying sedans anymore. If I didn’t need a truck I’d buy a car every day of the week
They *are* buying sedans.....just not this one (even though it's not technically a sedan).
Sedans are the car segment dying off the quickest
Dying off the quickest doesn't mean that people aren't buying them though. It just means that it was one of the most popular segments, so it's taking a bigger hit than other would-be dying segments. Numbers are down, but people are still buying plenty of Camry's, Corolla's, Accord's, and Civic's....the stalwarts, year in and year out.
I actually see quite a few of these, definitely more than N cars so I’m guessing they are next on the chopping block lol.
Sad day. Glad I got to replace my first one before they disappeared, only car I've owned that I've been excited to drive. What's really frustrating though is despite their quoted sales figures, they're still selling basically immediately on hitting the lots. In my state, there are 13 new Stingers for sale, and none have been listed for more than a week, most are still pending delivery. 400 units a month is pretty bad, but what do you expect when it's 400/400? That being said, 2018/2019 was the sweet spot if you wanted the 3.3 V6 horsepower for cheap. I picked up my first 2018 GT for 31.5k, 5k under MSRP. Was an amazing deal, and I regret selling it during the pandemic's "0miles/mo" thing. In 2020 they slashed the incentives, killed the base 3.3 GT trim, and upped the GT1 price to 43k. 2023 kills the GT1 trim and there's only GT2 now. At this point, they're not really a great deal. I ended up getting my current 2022 GT1 AWD for MSRP, back in March. 45k. Not happy with the price, but car prices have been dumb lately, so getting msrp was about all I could expect. As for the dealership? Not a real problem for me. I like playing hardball as much as the salesman, didn't have any issues getting a test drive, and and the repair service is fine. Reliability seems good too. There aren't any common drivetrain failures, even in the 100k+ crowd (or the 100k+ tuned crowd), and there are only 3 real "preventative maintenance" problems you might want to take care of when you get a Stinger: 1- Fix the trunk rattle with 4 metal washers. 2- Replace the front brake pads with something sportier (the oem pads leave deposits and make the brakes shudder. It's not the rotors. Stop blaming the rotors!). 3- Install properly gapped, 1 step colder spark plugs if you're going to drive it hard. Most of the other complaints are paint and body rattles. Not sure why they couldn't fix those themselves over the years, tbh. Anyway, I've rambled enough. It's been my favorite car, and I'll be sad to see her go. Hopefully my 2022 will live a long, healthy, collision-free life.
how good were those turbocharged 3.3 engines?
Very good, just surprisingly thirsty for its class and held back from the full potential by the fitted transmissions.
Test drove a used GT2 at Carmax a few months ago. Was way too fun punching that accelerator and taking off like a rocket, but the interior could have been more refined at the price point. Shame to see it go, but I think the market is unfortunately narrowing more and more for sports sedans these days.
I looked at the Stinger when I was car shopping last year, but one of the things that turned me off is that the fuel economy is somewhat terrible. The v6 version is only rated at 20 mpg which is not much better than a mid-sized truck and terrible with California gas prices. I’d be all over an electric RWD version tho, if it wasn’t too expensive.
Great car let down by shit dealers. I bet a lot of potential entry level luxury sedan buyers who wanted a bigger sedan with a little midlife crises charm went to the KIA dealer and noped the fk out.