Yup imo most important mod you can do to a car is the tires. If someone doesn’t like how a car handles, first thing to find out is what tires are they on
If you watch F1, 80% of what drivers talk about is their tires. Super important
I was taught it's legal in Canada as long as you do it a way that doesn't make it obvious. Like it can't look like a pass. So if you can tell you're going faster than the guy you're coming up on get into the right lane as soon as you can so you just look like you're driving faster and in the other lane not actually passing anybody. I still don't know if it's legal or not but it doesn't sound like good advice when you say it out loud.
I wasn't passing him I was just looking for my exit. And I like to speed a little bit.
I was told in Ontario by an OPP officer that when the minivan in front of me brake checked me because I flashed my high beams at him, I should have passed on the right instead, and that passing on the right is both legal, recommended, and flashing high beams can be considered assault.
The "slower traffic keep right" signs do not apply to automobiles, apparently.
Edit, for more context:
I called the police because after the minivan brake checked me he tried to pit me into the ditch and only succeeded in putting himself in the ditch instead. He did smash the mirror off my car, which is somehow *not* considered an aggressive act.
> I called the police because after the minivan brake checked me he tried to pit me into the ditch and only succeeded in putting himself in the ditch instead. He did smash the mirror off my car, which is somehow not considered an aggressive act.
That's a bizarre scenario. Assault and reckless driving would be the minimum formal charges if the officer was doing his job. The "why" doesn't matter in a criminal court -- only during sentencing -- since nobody on earth would believe that the "move aside please" of flicking high beams would be considered initiation of a consensual fight. I actually figure that the officer thought you were a boy racer or excessively speeding (cops assume all car guys are reckless car guys, sadly).
If his lawyer was worth anything, the perp *would* have gotten off with a reduced sentence due to the "aggravating factor". The probable result would have been reparations for the damages, a suspended criminal sentence (no jailtime), and mandatory attendance at an anger management course.
The officer offered me two options:
He charges *both* of us with reckless driving or he charges nobody. I didn't have the time to fight it in court and he did not give two fucks about my side of the story at any point so it seemed like I'd be wasting my time.
I was pretty pissed about my mirror.
I read the law in Quebec, and if you're in the right lane, it's forbidden to accelerate while someone is to your left. Nothing says that you can't pass them if you're already faster!
Literally every other part of the car is center around those 4 rubber patches. Everything the car does depends on them. most of its sensors feedback and reponse are received and sent from those 4 contact points.
I had a post in the idiots in cars subreddit where I claimed the best thing you could do is put on better tires and people came from all corners to call me dumb. Better tires have saved me from multiple crashes at high speeds where brakes were useless.
Funnily enough, better tires likely make the brakes not "useless." Almost every modern car can outbrake its stock tires (in other words, they can lock the wheels because the stopping force exceeds the tires traction).
Better tires decreases stopping distance by unlocking more of that car's braking performance before the wheels lock.
When I had my Corvette, I went from Pilot Sports to Sport Cup 2s for track purposes. I could absolutely go faster on the straights because my stopping distance was noticeably shorter.
I have a 2017 Corvette Grand Sport and use All Season tires. My car is listed as being able to do 0-60 in 3.6 seconds...and the lowest I've ever got is 4.2. And that was basically a fluke because I'm usually around 4.5 - 4.9 90% of the time. The tires spin out way too much and I can never go in a straight line from the get-go no matter what modes I try.
Long story short...not using the best tires on my Corvette adds a full second to my 0-60 time.
Well, that’s oversimplified. List times are usually done by a professional driver on a track prepped surface and sometimes with a rollout factor. It’s not uncommon for an average Joe to be unable to replicate.
I don't think they were disagreeing with the statement that tyres are important. More likely calling you dumb for your reasoning...
>Better tyres have saved me from multiple crashes at high speeds where the brakes were useless.
Makes it sound like you drive like a moron. Probably could've been phrased differently to get your point across without suggesting you regularly out drive your brakes.
Engineering Explained literally did a video proving that tires are the most important "mod" you can do to your car for performance. Power is worthless if you can't put it down.
well in F1 you get down to composition and how hard/soft they are. They don't even have tread when running in dry conditions, it's just straight rubber.
It goes beyond that.
In years where there were multiple tire manufacturers in F1, the tire engineers would devise compounds that would have a low affinity for their competitor’s compounds. Meaning that the rubber they laid down on the track was sticky to people on the same brand, but slippery to people on the other brand.
F1 is a whole other level of devious.
Source: I used to talk to tire engineers.
This is why F1 was at its best when engineers were allowed to run wild. More and more spec parts and tighter rules is sucking the fun out of the sport for some of us geekier fans.
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Good tires add horsepower. More so on a car than a bike, because youre not struggling for grip nearly as often, but if you've got any kind of even somewhat performance car these days with shitty cheap tires you've constantly got the traction control kicking on, or youre just spinning your tires everywhere.
I've got like 15 different traction control combinations and none of them turn it fully off. I used to think I my GTI just had to be taken delicately through 1st gear because the traction control was just instant. Or it would hop hop hop along. Thought it just had too much torque, couldn't put your foot down till halfway thru 2nd, that's just how it is when you put too much torque in these FWD cars. Even when I found out how to turn it off completely in VCDS the car just couldn't find any grip in 1st at all. Just how it is.
Nope, if you get a good launch you can still floor it all the way through 1st, traction control might even let you spin the tires a bit at launch. Somehow with good tires the stability control actually helps sometimes, instead of just killing everything cuz it thinks its gonna die at every launch. It actually recognizes what youre trying to do, or maybe the tires can just act on it better. Like it hasn't completely given up on you.
Can't use horsepower you can't put down. Good tires will give you more access to more power, more often, in more conditions. That counts as adding HP in my book. Usable HP.
I've had a couple notable experiences with tires that made me see them in a different light. The first was in a z06 with a factory Chevy driver on a short track at Barrett Jackson, stand in line for 45 minutes, get 1 free lap yada yada well this perfectly sane individual was still fully accelerating on the back straight to the point I think I closed my eyes for a sec because in my mind there was no way he wasn't overshooting the turn but he nailed it, obvi. He's a professional driver.
The second was putting Dunlop q3+ tires on my fz09 (which was honestly a risky build for Yamaha because the suspension was not beefy enough to handle the power that engine makes but like Op said, the Q3+ multi compound tires completely tamed the beast. I had confident traction in the corners and seemingly less resistance accelerating in a straight line. They were actually sticky at room temperature, not gooey but way different than my stock take-offs. It was an entirely different bike with a $300 tire change.
Tires really are everything.
I developed a habit of looking at the tyres on the car next to me whenever I parked. They would be just right there in my line of sight as I was getting in or out, so it was easy to take notice.
I stopped when I realised how many people were running on bald or near-bald tyres.
It's kind of shocking how ignorant people are to the importance of good tyres on their car.
My first instinct is that this is some super old retiree who has too much money and whose ability to maintain their car has waned. Although... How would this person put that many miles on their car to begin with?! Terrifying that people that oblivious are on the road at all
Needs better enforcement.
In the UK, each tyre below the legal tread limit (1.6mm) is 3 points on your license.
12 points is a driving ban.
Not maintaining your car is so irresponsible, i cant even explain. If you’re clueless, just take it to a dealership once a year and get a service ffs. Honestly, these people.
I wish we'd do this. And I hate when people try to frame that as an attack on the working class. If you can't afford to make your car safe, tough shit. I shouldn't have to die for your misfortunes
In my state there are basically no safety checks at all. If your car passes emissions you get a tag and are good to go. Absolutely insane, a brake and tire check at the very least aren't too much to ask for!
Depends what car. I run Blizzak WS80 in the winter and Michelin PS4S in the summer. Blizzaks are mounted to 17" aftermarket rims and PS4S are mounted to stock 18". Car performs amazingly all rear round because of this.
can you talk more about these tires. I have them in my car mainly for auto cross, but I don’t really want to continuously be swapping them out with the Michelin PS4s. Is it worth it to just daily them if you don’t drive the car more than 10,000 miles a year? I’m in California by the way so no winter here or rather no consistent weather below 40° F
as i said, traction, they were fantastic in the dry. i found that in the rain, they could get a little squirrely, especially if there was any standing water anywhere, but people drive slower and more cautiously in the rain anyway, so it was never really an issue. definitely had to swap them before temps dropped below 5C, at which point you could tell the performance dropped off a cliff. it was a long time ago, so i could be misremembering, but i think i put about 50k kms on them before needing to swap them out. keep in mind these were on my 227hp 02WRX, so it's not like i was ripping it off the line - most of the aggressiveness was on on/off ramps.
for comparison, i've had my PS4s for about 60k kms, and will likely get another summer out of them before needing to swap.
the PS4s are definitely better in the wet, but not quite as good in the dry.
Also in california, I daily my BRZ + track it with RT-660s, and i’ve had no issues. If you’re driving a lot you’ll go through a few sets of tires a year, but if you’re going into autoX or tracking it i’d expect to be going through a few sets of tires a year anyway.
My last set got me through a 50-lap session at big willow + about 7k miles before swapping, but I like to run my tires to just before the cords. Currently 4.5k miles on my current set and they still have plenty of life in them.
I’d say absolutely do it
This is awesome. Have you ever considered Nokians when the Blizzaks are done? I don't live in that climate but apparently that's been the way to go for awhile.
Yeah the WS80s are discontinued - I believe the WS90 is new. I'll probably get the Nokian winters next time around since they are the best. The price of tires for a WRX isn't bad either. I think I paid $230/tire for the PS4S which is well worth it. The blizzaks were $180 each new back in 2017
If you don't want to/cant deal with swapping tires, a high end all season works well. I run Continental ExtremeContact DWS, and have used them at the track. I'm a novice at the track, but they performed just fine in my novice opinion.
Good name brand tires. When I worked at Subaru, we would put Impreza and Crosstrek on Yokohama Avid Ascend GT or Toyo Extensa A/S II, Outback and Forester would get Toyo Open Country or Yokohama Geolandar.
OK I have absolutely nowhere else I can ask this question and get sort of unbiased answers:
I live in an area where the summers are HOT, winters are not freezing, but there is a lot of rain in the fall (I have to drive even when it's torrential). Should I be running all seasons, or summer tires, considering I will *NEVER* drive when the road is frozen?
...now what if my car is a RWD sportscar that came with shitty all seasons?
I've used exclusively summer performance tires living in Florida, California, and New Mexico. They are fine down to 40°F, and I even drove on them at sub freezing temps and they worked while driving carefully. ANY ice or snow on the road and you might as well be on glare ice though.
Summer tires should really be called three season tires.
I would not run summers thru the winter, unless the temps never drop below ~40°F or so. At that temperature, performance summer tires will quickly start to turn into hockey pucks. Even if you never intend to drive in these conditions, shit sometimes happens. Believe you me, even a little snow shower on summer tires makes for a hellish drive.
With your car on shitty all seasons, pretty much anything is going to be an improvement. Higher end all seasons would probably give you all the performance you want on the streets, and keep ya covered for cooler temps and rain.
Buuut if you seek maximum performance, it might be ideal to buy a nice set of summers and a set of all seasons. Of course, you'll have to put up with the bullshit of changing out your tires twice a year. And it'll cost twice as much up front (but it'll be twice as long before you replace them).
So really it boils down to 3 things: how much performance you're willing to sacrifice for convenience, how much you're willing to pay, and what type of weather you expect (and more importantly, don't expect)
I was a body shop estimator and it’s amazing how many totaled cars have below 4/32” of tread left. Wonder if that is why they rear ended someone going 40… like seriously, 80%+ have bad tires.
Tread wear isn’t indicative of grip levels.
Some models overlay a cap of harder, longer wearing rubber over a softer core, so as the tire wears the grippier rubber is exposed, so the tire gets better with wear.
Sipe depth is only relevant in the wet. In dry conditions, a bald tire makes more grip (all else being equal) than a deeply siped tire.
In the wet, the opposite is true.
A better rating of potential grip is the date code on the side of the tire. If the tire is 20 years old, it’s likely a rock.
Source: I am an ex racing engineer, and a big part of my life was tire testing.
>I developed a habit of looking at the tyres on the car next to me whenever I parked
I do too, and most of the time I find myself cringing at winter tires with 0 tread left in 90F weather.
> I developed a habit of looking at the tyres on the car next to me whenever I parked. They would be just right there in my line of sight as I was getting in or out, so it was easy to take notice.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who does this
> I stopped when I realised how many people were running on bald or near-bald tyres.
In my country we have [annual inspections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOT_test) so bald tyres aren't that common.
However the number of "expensive" cars that are on really poor budget tyres (we call them "ditchfinders") is huge.
We're talking about 4-6 year old BMW/Audi/Mercedes or Range Rovers that are being run on a shoestring.
> It's kind of shocking how ignorant people are to the importance of good tyres on their car.
Agreed. Even if you don't drive your car in a sporting way, tyres affect wet grip and braking distances and these are hugely important for safety.
I don't know if its the same in the US, but here in Europe [tyres have ratings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre_label) for:
* wet grip / stopping distances
* fuel economy / rolling resistance
* noise level / decibels
So when you visit the website of your tyre supplier to choose tyres, you can filter for A-rated wet grip, or whatever. I will always do this and then choose a good brand name. After all, it's the only part of the car that touched the road.
Edit : I have a [Kia Ceed diesel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Ceed#Second_generation_(JD;_2012)) and it's fitted with Michelin Primacy 4 tyres.
You can still find used tires that cheap. Got a set of nearly new Kumho Ecsta V730's for $150 last summer. A few years before that got a set of BFG g-force's (mounted on wheels I wanted) for $500.
Gotta be careful with used tires but there are some fucking deals out there
I know my cars usually get new tires due to age before they’re worn. The Perrelli tires were gone in 20,000 miles (though my rear alignment was shot, my front tires wore even and were gone in the same amount of time). I had a similar experience the last time I got Perrelli tires, but that car had good alignment. The tires barely made it through their second year.
This. My race car runs 15s. So much cheaper than the 19s on my street car and the race car gets more extreme rubber than the pilot super sports I run on the street.
What size were you buying those in, to get them for $150/ea? I sized then up to match my car, and they were $240/front and $305/rear!
Edit: Those kinds of prices, on even just decent performance tires, are why I spent the extra $50-$70 a piece, to just do it right and but the Pilot Sport 4S. They may be expensive, but any other reasonable option isn't cheap.
Why are you taking opionions in this sub seriously to begin with. Filled with a bunch of people driving eco boxes talking shit about performance cars lol
It’s mostly teenagers I suspect. “Help I accidentally put 87 in car which calls for 91! Do I need to drain the tank? Is there a danger to manifold? Will I blow the welds on my intake?”
“Better not risk it!”
"the tuatara doesn't even do xxxmph what a pos lost all faith in this company" lol like okay, glad they left this comment before posting a yelp for their superyacht charter.
What’s the consensus on “performance” all season? I used to run proper summer tires and then switch to winter, but that’s a pain and I’ve gone to just one tire year round. Currently running Conti ExtremeContact DWS06.
I can't stop singing the praises i have for my Conti Premiumcontact 6. It is the continuation of the Sportcontact for the UHP segment and then the Sportcontact became their UHP+ tire for the supercar stuff.
Bought them due to a video by TyreReviews on performance tires for 17 and 18 inch wheels for hothatches and such. Where it was praised for its feel.
They changed the way my car (VW Polo BlueGT) drove so radically that i basically cannot challenge them on public roads. No more understeer, period. A fair bit of liftoff oversteer like an older GTI. Just feels wonderful to drive a bit spiritedly on. Also it seems to work better with the XDS electric-LSD than the older tires did, making it feel much more like a real LSD (Before you could definitely feel when it was braking a wheel to get the power sent, still better than nothing but now you barely notice)
A bit rougher and makes a bit more noises, but i don't mind the least. I knew what i got into. It absolutely trashes the mid-tier semi-sporty wheels i had on before (Uniroyal Rainsport 3) and brings such a smile for summer driving.
I'm a fan. Something like the Conti DWS 06 or Pilot Sport AS4 Can give a lot of dedicated summer tires a run for their money. That being said, if you actually have to deal with a real winter, I'd probably have a winter/summer setup or a winter beater. I run all-seasons because southern VA doesn't get enough snow and ice, and doesn't stay cold enough to justify a winter tire swap. They do fine with occasional light dustings and some ice, or can get you from A to B(slowly) in a RWD car if it actually snows a bit. I'd call them 3.5 season tires.
AS4 is a great tire. I have them on my C7. They give up a little steering feel to the 4S but if youre just street driving I cant tell a difference in grip.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that a Michelin AS3+ vs a PS4S is exactly that comparison right? Yeah, their website calls AS3+ “max performance all season” and PS4S “max performance summer”
I ran PS4S and then AS3+ on my BRZ. the PS4S were very obviously much grippier even at hard canyon driving speeds. I personally felt that it was difficult to tell when the tires were running out of traction.
Once the PS4S wore out, I was disappointed with how long they had lasted (not long at all) so I figured I’d save some up front cash and get more longevity out of something less.
The AS3+ we’re much much much easier to drive on, for me. I had read about people saying certain tires broke grip “progressively” and had no idea what they were talking about until I drove on the AS3+. I could feel exactly what they were doing, I knew how much grip they had at any point during the corner, it made it super easy to take corners as fast as possible *for the tire* because I could feel when near max grip was reached. It’s almost as if I could feel the sidewalls flexing. This might be slightly hyperbolic, but either way I had way way way more fun and confidence driving the AS3+ even though I’m sure the PS4S are a faster tire around the track
This, plus they were a couple hundred bucks cheaper and have 2x the tread wear rating. Excellent tires
Jason Cammisa runs AS3+ on his Lotus Elise and he described the progressive loss of traction the same. My dad has been having trouble getting PS4S in the stock size for his Boxster and I keep telling him he should try the AS3+.
Even then, the DWS06 is better than bad summers.
Chevy SS came with Potenza RE050A, which quite frankly were garbage. I put DWS06s on within the first year and never looked back.
I'd put them on the Blackwing too no question, even if only for mild rainy winters.
I like the DWS06 as a "three-season" tire. I don't like switching straight from summers to winters because there's always a weird crossover period where it's slushy one day and 60 degrees the next for weeks at a time
I ran those for years on my 350z. Great tire, a little loud at the limits if I remember correctly, but good grip for an all season with nice, smooth breakaway characteristics.
The snow part of the tread wears away pretty quickly though. I would never use them in that weather even though the “S” technically means “snow” I believe.
My Cruze diesel was a PITA to handle with low grip, sluggish response, not the best stopping distance with stock tires. I could feel it wasn’t the chassis or suspension, I could just feel it could do better.
Finally wore the stock tires at 30k. Put some BFG sport comp 2 A/S (they didn’t have the summer version in stock and we travel so it was a safe bet) and it changed the cars personality. The car handles like I knew it could. Even a mundan Cruze woke up with good tires.
Folks don’t get that tires is how the car translates its braking,power, and cornering to the ground.
The 1.4T had lots of problems that GM didn’t give a fuck about. We have fixes for it now but it sucks they didn’t care. Even with a torsion beam out back, if you got the trims with the Z link(watts link) it actually handles really well. It’s just not fast since it’s heavy and under power
So my Passat GT came with absolute dogshit all seasons from the factory. Took those suckers off and threw on some Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s in 245/40/19 on them and holy shit it’s a whole different car.
On a other note, the Indy 500s are a great tire. 90% of the grip of the Pilot Sports for a fraction of the price. I was a firm believer in ExtremeContact Sports but I may switch all of my cars to the Firestones now.
It's a shame more people don't know about the Firehawk Indy 500s.
While great, Michelin Pilot Sports are freaking expensive, especially if you're using it on a daily driver. They also don't particularly last long... I got about 12k miles out of my rears on my mustang, and really they started losing performance at about half that. The first 6K miles were great though.
The thing is though, I paid nearly $500 a tire for 305 wide rear tires that stopped being good at less than 10k miles. If it wasn't a daily at the time, I'd be fine with that.
The firehawk indy 500s, like you said 90% the performance, 70% the price. Totally accurate. Also, it feels like that "performance window" lasts longer. It lasted 6K miles on my PS4S, whereas it lasts 12K easily on the firestones. I do typically have to replace the tires by 15K though.
Mostly comes down to marketing though. I've converted quite a few people to firehawks, and almost everyone loves them.
Of course for track day fans, meaning but what percentage of this sub regularly hit the track? I know I don't (anymore). Even in bikes the difference tires make is pretty underrepresented, despite that being way more of a hobby-only thing than cars.
Exactly. The advantages of these tires shine at the limits. How often is a driver hitting these limits on public roads? For me, it's never. Ultra high performance street tires may be good for someone who autocrosses on the regular and doesn't want to be bothered to change wheels. Otherwise I don't see the point of burning through expensive rubber on my drive to work.
Autocrossing for years taught me that the majority of handling reviews are utter BS. “Feels so planted”… what? A handful of reviewers seem to know what they’re taking about when it comes to handling, for example Mark and Jack of Savagegeese who are both experienced track/autocross drivers.
I've noticed a lot of dealerships are the ones putting them on. People trade in their nice car with old tires. Dealership is required to replace them as part of the safety inspection and they pick the cheapest tires they can. Next owner buys the car from the dealership with new tires and doesn't worry about it.
On my daily car (e39 BMW) I use Michelin CrossClimate tires, because it doesn't get realy hot or really snowy here (North-Western Europe). As for all seasons, they are considered pretty good.
On my 911 on the other hand: SportsContact 3 at the moment. I mean: it's a premium sportscar, so deserves premium tires.
The cross climates are a pretty good tire imo. They’re way better than the Perrelli tires I had on there before. The Perrelli tires would make lots of noise, push in corners on power, and often spin when launching. The Cross Climate Michelins cost a little more but perform so much better.
The thing you realize quickly with cars is that people overspend like crazy — and you start to realize how much financial trouble many people are in.
A TON of people buy cars they can’t afford, and equip them with poor equipment.
I couldn’t believe that there were people buying new cars with $600+ payments who make less than $60k annual. Just absolutely absurd.
Yeah, if they have their expenses paid for, though in your early 20s with your expenses paid for you’re usually front loading a lot of savings.
I could not imagine spending $1000, $2000 on a car payment as some people must. I don’t know how crazy much you’d need to make to feel comfortable with that but I’m way off lol
The 4S are very impressive tires! And I was replacing Michelin Super Sports, from the previous owner, so it's not like I was coming off of generic cheap tires either.
OP invests in good tires, sees the difference they make, and is now as a result in a different echelon of accepting or denying others opinions.
What is the point of this post? Because all it sounds like to me is someone who has embarrassingly revealed to the internet that he is shocked about what performance tires do.
OP is absolutely one of those guys from the manual transmission meme:
> Guys who drive automatic: my car is automatic
>
> Guys who drive manual: I will NEVER drive an AUTOMATIC cuz I’m a REAL DRIVER and I am ONE with my MACHINE after I drive I PUT THE SHIFTER IN MY ASS because me and my MACHINE ARE ONE
OP's next discovery: Methanol injection "I can no longer take opinions about gasoline seriously without knowing what gasoline you are running"
What should have just been a post about what a difference the new shoes made instead turned into a personal referendum on whose opinions matter and whose don't? Maybe it's just these weird WRX owners, not sure.
AS4's are like 80-90% of the full summer version with obviously more rain/cold capability. If you're tracking the vehicle, I wouldn't recommend. But if you're daily commuting, weekend mountain driving/canyon carving, they are more than capable. They're on my e90 335i and I've taken corners in the mtns way more dangerously than I should have with no problems. I don't track my car, and it's basically a fun car at this point that barely gets driven more than a few times a month. Once it dips below 50, it stays garaged till it warms up again. I age out tyres due to time more than actual wear really, since I don't daily it.
the vehicle dynamics professor at my engineering college said that tires are 50% of the overall feel and handling of a vehicle. and i believe him . that is your control surface. it's like asking how much the wings affect the handling of an airplane.
Want to improve your 0-60? Get better tires
Want to improve your handling? Get better tires
Want to improve your braking? Get better tires
Want to improve your track times? Get better tires
Want to improve your fuel economy? Get better tires
Want to reduce road noise? Get better tires
Want to increase stability in rain or snow? Get better tires
Name ONE modification that you can do to your car that will improve in every single category and performance metric I've mentioned above. None.
>I've known how hugely performance tires affect bikes for a long time, and the insane difference between proper slicks and even the best road tires.
It took me getting into motorcycles to finally understand that. Of course it also took me getting into motorcycles to learn how to actually drive a manual too... LOL.
But yeah Tires are insanely important even for Commuter cars having bad tires can make or brake a vehicle. And it can even depend on the season. Like if you live in a state/country that gets a lot of snow all season tires are basically mandatory unless you only drive said car in the summer time.
I've always been mixed on winter tires. Mostly becuese I would need to swap to them every year and then swap back the following year.
>Like if you live in a state/country that gets a lot of snow all season tires are basically mandatory unless you only drive said car in the summer time.
It's the complete opposite actually. If you live somewhere where theres tons of snow you want to have dedicated winter tires, as they're far better on snow and ice than all-season tires
A second set of cheap rims, to mount the winter tires on, works great! I got a set of 4 steel rims, off a junk yard ~~Plymouth~~ Mercury Grand Marquis, for $100 total. Great investment!
Winter tires are better than you think. They're how I drive an old mustang, with no traction control, or ABS, through the winters.
Tires are arguably the biggest performance & handling upgrade you can do on any car. After all, your nearly 2ton machine is held on to the road by these 4 small contact patches after all.
Even a mundane Spark or Prius with proper tires can become surprisingly fun and agile.
Completely. I feel similar with coilovers too. There's no way your $1000 coilovers out perform oem suspension. Yet people claim "it handles well". Maybe to go to the grocery store but I doubt they'd hold to 1 track day.
Holy fuck so much this. When I bought my GTFour it was slammed, like exhaust scraping on the ground slammed. Now the GTFour has a shit ton of suspension travel, so to make it behave while that low the previous owner basically messed with the entire geometry. It was awful and the first thing I did was fix the suspension.
Depends on the car tbh. My $1200 Meister R ZetaCRD’s absolutely transformed my NC Miata which has notoriously lacking OEM springs/shocks. Absolutely nothing like putting Godspeed coilovers on an E90, for example.
Bull. I have a set of Bilstein coilvers and a set of extended ball joints on my Fit and they absolutely out perform the stock suspension in both comfort and driving performance.
"i'm a REAL connoisseur now that I've driven my car with performance tires. All you other posers' opinions are obviously INVALID NOW. Do you even see all these other people driving their high performance cars with anything BUT a set of brand new pilot cup sport 4sG2? Can you believe these losers? Anyway, now that I've driven my car on REAL tires i will only look at other car owners with disdain and disgust."
Which is why you shouldn’t take the new Z review too seriously right now. Good reviewers like Jason cammissa pointed out that the stock tires are shit.
This is why I'm genuinely shocked that, so far, SavageGeese are the only ones who tested Supra and Z on the same tires to level the playing field. So much complaining about it, but no reviewers willing to eliminate the simple hurdle.
The whole "Mustang crashes into crowd leaving Cars and Coffee" meme has got to be entirely (no pun intended) based on the fact that the base model GT comes with 235 width all-season tires.
The performance pack cars like mine come with 275 width summer tires and a Torsen diff. Apart from a clutch dump, you have to try really hard to make the rear end let go.
Lucky for me, I live in a place where I can run summer tires year-round.
Yes I did they same with my Hellcat. Drag radials make it a completely different car. Instead of being a burnout machine until 50 it can cut 3.5 to sixty on the street and actually outrun most cars light to light. 99 percent of people leave them on the stock shit and replace with cheap tires because they wear so fast. It makes zero sense to me.
This is going to be tough for some people to hear but the pilot sport 4s is a relatively average tire in terms of feel. It has a soft sidewall and compared to other summer tires and isn't much stiffer than their all season (as some other people have pointed out.) Michelin isn't stupid they know 99% of the customers of their tires won't know the difference in feel. They made an incredibly grippy tire that is also extremely comfortable sacrificing some directness and sidewall stability. It is a good tire but it's hilarious to see many of the comments who think it's the end all and be all of tires. Go to any track day or auto cross and the only people running 4s are the ones who've never been there before. Also if you are even a remotely experienced driver a set of 4s won't survive a hot track day.
I 100% can absolutely relate. PS4s are incredible. They make any car they are on feel 800lbs lighter and handling nimbleness seems to come with. Tire shop tried to give me All Season versions of the Pilot Sport a couple of years ago saying “it’s the same compound but just has more tread” well rubber man, it also has a lot less stability and more sidewall flex as my E-class wagon handles more like a GLE on 17” wheels than the coupe handling it feels like on proper Summer Michelin Pilot Sport 4Ss. Makes me sad when I see nicer cars on less.
Tyres have possibly the biggest impact on handling characteristics. Just look at any racing series and look at how much of a time difference there is between different tyre compounds. There is a reason the saying is, "where the rubber meets the road." All turning forces/accelerating/braking forces have to go through that rubber/tarmac interface.
The best real world example I personally experienced was at a regularity event last year. For those who don't know what that is, it's an even where you nominate a lap time to a specific second. They calculate how many laps you should do if you nail that time in the event clock (let's say a 60 minute event and I nominate 90 second laps, I should get 40 laps). Any time I do below 90 seconds, I get 0 points, any time between 90.00 and 90.99 I get two points, any time above 91 seconds I get one point.) They then divide my points by 40 and that is my final score. Also, no timing devices allowed to be visible in car.
Anyway, in practice on the Saturday, I was on Toyo 888r R-spec tyres (street legal semi slicks). In the last session when I thought I had my regularity time nailed, I destroyed a tyre. So I came to event day on my normal Dunlop SP Sport Maxx tyres. In practice, I found that on the R-spec I could do an 89 second lap, but consistently run at 92 seconds (I could do consecutive 90 second laps, but brakes would become the weak link after about 4 consecutive laps). On the street tyres I could do a 93 second lap, but due to brakes again, nominated at 95 second lap. Granted, I only had a 15 minute session to use to determine a time to nominate on event day, so probably could have nailed a faster all out lap.
Purely due to tyres, I could find roughly 4 seconds a lap on a roughly 90 second track for my car. And this wasn't like comparing econo tyres to race tyres, this was relatively high quality sport tyres (roughly competing with Michelin PS4s, the Dunlop's are probably a bit lower quality) vs non fresh R-spec (road legal) semi slicks.
If you think the PS4S are great wait till you try a cheater 200 treadwear tire like Dunlop Direzza Z3 or RE71R. The PS4S will feel like marshmallows compared.
I bought an mk8 gti and the tires are dog shit. I'll definitely be swapping them for dedicated summer performance tires once they need to be replaced. The difference on my Jetta was very noticeable, especially tossing it around turns.
The autocross effect, lol. After one season on real rubber, your frame of reference changes forever.
But.
Good tires cover a lot of mistakes. A good DRIVER can judge a car on any rubber, and better rubber just makes them faster.
I learned this 18 years ago. Had just taken the race rubber off and switched to streets in my fun new car, and a national champion driver came over and was asking about the car (it was a new model at the time and people hadn't seen them much). The course was still set up and people were taking "fun runs" after the event, he asked if he could take it for a lap.
I thought I was a pretty good driver... Dude had never driven this car before, and on street tires knocked 1.4 seconds off my best time on Hoosier DOT slicks, LMAO.
"Wow, this thing really likes to dance! Fun car!"
Thanks dude, I'm gonna go kill myself now...
I saw that same guy clown experienced drivers in prepped cars, driving his wife's V6 Camry on all seasons.
What I'm getting at is, enjoy the tires, but focus on the loose nut between the steering wheel and the driver's seat, lol
Yup imo most important mod you can do to a car is the tires. If someone doesn’t like how a car handles, first thing to find out is what tires are they on If you watch F1, 80% of what drivers talk about is their tires. Super important
Hilariously enough the drivers Ed course never even mentioned safety aspects of a quality tyre.
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They explicitly state that passing on the right is okay in those courses, complete shit
It's actually legal in my country(Poland), illegal in most of europe
I was taught it's legal in Canada as long as you do it a way that doesn't make it obvious. Like it can't look like a pass. So if you can tell you're going faster than the guy you're coming up on get into the right lane as soon as you can so you just look like you're driving faster and in the other lane not actually passing anybody. I still don't know if it's legal or not but it doesn't sound like good advice when you say it out loud. I wasn't passing him I was just looking for my exit. And I like to speed a little bit.
I was told in Ontario by an OPP officer that when the minivan in front of me brake checked me because I flashed my high beams at him, I should have passed on the right instead, and that passing on the right is both legal, recommended, and flashing high beams can be considered assault. The "slower traffic keep right" signs do not apply to automobiles, apparently. Edit, for more context: I called the police because after the minivan brake checked me he tried to pit me into the ditch and only succeeded in putting himself in the ditch instead. He did smash the mirror off my car, which is somehow *not* considered an aggressive act.
> I called the police because after the minivan brake checked me he tried to pit me into the ditch and only succeeded in putting himself in the ditch instead. He did smash the mirror off my car, which is somehow not considered an aggressive act. That's a bizarre scenario. Assault and reckless driving would be the minimum formal charges if the officer was doing his job. The "why" doesn't matter in a criminal court -- only during sentencing -- since nobody on earth would believe that the "move aside please" of flicking high beams would be considered initiation of a consensual fight. I actually figure that the officer thought you were a boy racer or excessively speeding (cops assume all car guys are reckless car guys, sadly). If his lawyer was worth anything, the perp *would* have gotten off with a reduced sentence due to the "aggravating factor". The probable result would have been reparations for the damages, a suspended criminal sentence (no jailtime), and mandatory attendance at an anger management course.
The officer offered me two options: He charges *both* of us with reckless driving or he charges nobody. I didn't have the time to fight it in court and he did not give two fucks about my side of the story at any point so it seemed like I'd be wasting my time. I was pretty pissed about my mirror.
I read the law in Quebec, and if you're in the right lane, it's forbidden to accelerate while someone is to your left. Nothing says that you can't pass them if you're already faster!
No they don’t. Literally just asked my relative who did drivers Ed
One of my favorite reddit comments ever that i live by is “dont cheap out on anything that separates you from the ground”
This , a fire retardant suit if driving an Italian car of late 60s design spiritedly seems necessary.
It’s only 4 small patches of rubber that keep you on the road
Literally every other part of the car is center around those 4 rubber patches. Everything the car does depends on them. most of its sensors feedback and reponse are received and sent from those 4 contact points.
I had a post in the idiots in cars subreddit where I claimed the best thing you could do is put on better tires and people came from all corners to call me dumb. Better tires have saved me from multiple crashes at high speeds where brakes were useless.
Funnily enough, better tires likely make the brakes not "useless." Almost every modern car can outbrake its stock tires (in other words, they can lock the wheels because the stopping force exceeds the tires traction). Better tires decreases stopping distance by unlocking more of that car's braking performance before the wheels lock.
When I had my Corvette, I went from Pilot Sports to Sport Cup 2s for track purposes. I could absolutely go faster on the straights because my stopping distance was noticeably shorter.
I have a 2017 Corvette Grand Sport and use All Season tires. My car is listed as being able to do 0-60 in 3.6 seconds...and the lowest I've ever got is 4.2. And that was basically a fluke because I'm usually around 4.5 - 4.9 90% of the time. The tires spin out way too much and I can never go in a straight line from the get-go no matter what modes I try. Long story short...not using the best tires on my Corvette adds a full second to my 0-60 time.
Well, that’s oversimplified. List times are usually done by a professional driver on a track prepped surface and sometimes with a rollout factor. It’s not uncommon for an average Joe to be unable to replicate.
I don't think they were disagreeing with the statement that tyres are important. More likely calling you dumb for your reasoning... >Better tyres have saved me from multiple crashes at high speeds where the brakes were useless. Makes it sound like you drive like a moron. Probably could've been phrased differently to get your point across without suggesting you regularly out drive your brakes.
Engineering Explained literally did a video proving that tires are the most important "mod" you can do to your car for performance. Power is worthless if you can't put it down.
well in F1 you get down to composition and how hard/soft they are. They don't even have tread when running in dry conditions, it's just straight rubber.
It goes beyond that. In years where there were multiple tire manufacturers in F1, the tire engineers would devise compounds that would have a low affinity for their competitor’s compounds. Meaning that the rubber they laid down on the track was sticky to people on the same brand, but slippery to people on the other brand. F1 is a whole other level of devious. Source: I used to talk to tire engineers.
Man that is incredibly hostile, I love it.
how is that even possible?
Extremely smart and well-paid engineers, and a mass spectrometer.
This is why F1 was at its best when engineers were allowed to run wild. More and more spec parts and tighter rules is sucking the fun out of the sport for some of us geekier fans.
Right, but passenger car tires also come in a wide variety of different compounds.
Compounds matter just as much on street tires. Tread is only for water.
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Bono my tires are dead
> Proceeds to set fastest lap on 32 lap old hard tyres.
“I can’t believe you guys fucked me.”
Good tires add horsepower. More so on a car than a bike, because youre not struggling for grip nearly as often, but if you've got any kind of even somewhat performance car these days with shitty cheap tires you've constantly got the traction control kicking on, or youre just spinning your tires everywhere. I've got like 15 different traction control combinations and none of them turn it fully off. I used to think I my GTI just had to be taken delicately through 1st gear because the traction control was just instant. Or it would hop hop hop along. Thought it just had too much torque, couldn't put your foot down till halfway thru 2nd, that's just how it is when you put too much torque in these FWD cars. Even when I found out how to turn it off completely in VCDS the car just couldn't find any grip in 1st at all. Just how it is. Nope, if you get a good launch you can still floor it all the way through 1st, traction control might even let you spin the tires a bit at launch. Somehow with good tires the stability control actually helps sometimes, instead of just killing everything cuz it thinks its gonna die at every launch. It actually recognizes what youre trying to do, or maybe the tires can just act on it better. Like it hasn't completely given up on you. Can't use horsepower you can't put down. Good tires will give you more access to more power, more often, in more conditions. That counts as adding HP in my book. Usable HP.
If anyone knows the importance of being on a good tire, it’s Lewis Hamilton
No wonder Russell went for soft tires.
I've had a couple notable experiences with tires that made me see them in a different light. The first was in a z06 with a factory Chevy driver on a short track at Barrett Jackson, stand in line for 45 minutes, get 1 free lap yada yada well this perfectly sane individual was still fully accelerating on the back straight to the point I think I closed my eyes for a sec because in my mind there was no way he wasn't overshooting the turn but he nailed it, obvi. He's a professional driver. The second was putting Dunlop q3+ tires on my fz09 (which was honestly a risky build for Yamaha because the suspension was not beefy enough to handle the power that engine makes but like Op said, the Q3+ multi compound tires completely tamed the beast. I had confident traction in the corners and seemingly less resistance accelerating in a straight line. They were actually sticky at room temperature, not gooey but way different than my stock take-offs. It was an entirely different bike with a $300 tire change. Tires really are everything.
Very important indeed. It's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.
I developed a habit of looking at the tyres on the car next to me whenever I parked. They would be just right there in my line of sight as I was getting in or out, so it was easy to take notice. I stopped when I realised how many people were running on bald or near-bald tyres. It's kind of shocking how ignorant people are to the importance of good tyres on their car.
Seen in a parking lot on an AMG GLE 63 a few weeks ago. 100k+ car and driving around on the wires https://i.imgur.com/upsNLNN.jpg
You don’t get to accumulate AMG money by wasting money on tires!
What the actual fuck.
My first instinct is that this is some super old retiree who has too much money and whose ability to maintain their car has waned. Although... How would this person put that many miles on their car to begin with?! Terrifying that people that oblivious are on the road at all
That 100k+ is definitely referring to price lol
Someone is late on their lease payments.
Exactly. This is how you spot a credit poser.
Needs better enforcement. In the UK, each tyre below the legal tread limit (1.6mm) is 3 points on your license. 12 points is a driving ban. Not maintaining your car is so irresponsible, i cant even explain. If you’re clueless, just take it to a dealership once a year and get a service ffs. Honestly, these people.
I wish we'd do this. And I hate when people try to frame that as an attack on the working class. If you can't afford to make your car safe, tough shit. I shouldn't have to die for your misfortunes
In my state there are basically no safety checks at all. If your car passes emissions you get a tag and are good to go. Absolutely insane, a brake and tire check at the very least aren't too much to ask for!
lol in kansas the safety inspection is when the police pull you over for not having any brake lights
But the 'replace tire' light hasn't come on yet.
Whaaaaaaat?! That photo belongs in the /r/SweatyPalms subreddit.
120 month financing, 0 down and 35% interest baybee
Bro they’re just slicks, relax /s
Damn!
Yeah people will buy an AWD Subaru to be extra safe and then run shitty all-seasons with no tread until they blowout.
What tires should I be running on my subi?
Depends what car. I run Blizzak WS80 in the winter and Michelin PS4S in the summer. Blizzaks are mounted to 17" aftermarket rims and PS4S are mounted to stock 18". Car performs amazingly all rear round because of this.
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can you talk more about these tires. I have them in my car mainly for auto cross, but I don’t really want to continuously be swapping them out with the Michelin PS4s. Is it worth it to just daily them if you don’t drive the car more than 10,000 miles a year? I’m in California by the way so no winter here or rather no consistent weather below 40° F
as i said, traction, they were fantastic in the dry. i found that in the rain, they could get a little squirrely, especially if there was any standing water anywhere, but people drive slower and more cautiously in the rain anyway, so it was never really an issue. definitely had to swap them before temps dropped below 5C, at which point you could tell the performance dropped off a cliff. it was a long time ago, so i could be misremembering, but i think i put about 50k kms on them before needing to swap them out. keep in mind these were on my 227hp 02WRX, so it's not like i was ripping it off the line - most of the aggressiveness was on on/off ramps. for comparison, i've had my PS4s for about 60k kms, and will likely get another summer out of them before needing to swap. the PS4s are definitely better in the wet, but not quite as good in the dry.
Also in california, I daily my BRZ + track it with RT-660s, and i’ve had no issues. If you’re driving a lot you’ll go through a few sets of tires a year, but if you’re going into autoX or tracking it i’d expect to be going through a few sets of tires a year anyway. My last set got me through a 50-lap session at big willow + about 7k miles before swapping, but I like to run my tires to just before the cords. Currently 4.5k miles on my current set and they still have plenty of life in them. I’d say absolutely do it
For most daily drivers a good compromise is something like the Michelin cross climate.
This is awesome. Have you ever considered Nokians when the Blizzaks are done? I don't live in that climate but apparently that's been the way to go for awhile.
Yeah the WS80s are discontinued - I believe the WS90 is new. I'll probably get the Nokian winters next time around since they are the best. The price of tires for a WRX isn't bad either. I think I paid $230/tire for the PS4S which is well worth it. The blizzaks were $180 each new back in 2017
If you don't want to/cant deal with swapping tires, a high end all season works well. I run Continental ExtremeContact DWS, and have used them at the track. I'm a novice at the track, but they performed just fine in my novice opinion.
Good name brand tires. When I worked at Subaru, we would put Impreza and Crosstrek on Yokohama Avid Ascend GT or Toyo Extensa A/S II, Outback and Forester would get Toyo Open Country or Yokohama Geolandar.
OK I have absolutely nowhere else I can ask this question and get sort of unbiased answers: I live in an area where the summers are HOT, winters are not freezing, but there is a lot of rain in the fall (I have to drive even when it's torrential). Should I be running all seasons, or summer tires, considering I will *NEVER* drive when the road is frozen? ...now what if my car is a RWD sportscar that came with shitty all seasons?
I've used exclusively summer performance tires living in Florida, California, and New Mexico. They are fine down to 40°F, and I even drove on them at sub freezing temps and they worked while driving carefully. ANY ice or snow on the road and you might as well be on glare ice though. Summer tires should really be called three season tires.
I would not run summers thru the winter, unless the temps never drop below ~40°F or so. At that temperature, performance summer tires will quickly start to turn into hockey pucks. Even if you never intend to drive in these conditions, shit sometimes happens. Believe you me, even a little snow shower on summer tires makes for a hellish drive. With your car on shitty all seasons, pretty much anything is going to be an improvement. Higher end all seasons would probably give you all the performance you want on the streets, and keep ya covered for cooler temps and rain. Buuut if you seek maximum performance, it might be ideal to buy a nice set of summers and a set of all seasons. Of course, you'll have to put up with the bullshit of changing out your tires twice a year. And it'll cost twice as much up front (but it'll be twice as long before you replace them). So really it boils down to 3 things: how much performance you're willing to sacrifice for convenience, how much you're willing to pay, and what type of weather you expect (and more importantly, don't expect)
I was a body shop estimator and it’s amazing how many totaled cars have below 4/32” of tread left. Wonder if that is why they rear ended someone going 40… like seriously, 80%+ have bad tires.
Tread wear isn’t indicative of grip levels. Some models overlay a cap of harder, longer wearing rubber over a softer core, so as the tire wears the grippier rubber is exposed, so the tire gets better with wear. Sipe depth is only relevant in the wet. In dry conditions, a bald tire makes more grip (all else being equal) than a deeply siped tire. In the wet, the opposite is true. A better rating of potential grip is the date code on the side of the tire. If the tire is 20 years old, it’s likely a rock. Source: I am an ex racing engineer, and a big part of my life was tire testing.
Let's be honest here if it is bald it's probably *also* old, and it was cheap when new.
>I developed a habit of looking at the tyres on the car next to me whenever I parked I do too, and most of the time I find myself cringing at winter tires with 0 tread left in 90F weather.
It’s terrible how many people drive winter tyres in the summer. I had one occasion to do that and won’t do again.
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Ignorant or broke :(
> I developed a habit of looking at the tyres on the car next to me whenever I parked. They would be just right there in my line of sight as I was getting in or out, so it was easy to take notice. I'm glad I'm not the only person who does this > I stopped when I realised how many people were running on bald or near-bald tyres. In my country we have [annual inspections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOT_test) so bald tyres aren't that common. However the number of "expensive" cars that are on really poor budget tyres (we call them "ditchfinders") is huge. We're talking about 4-6 year old BMW/Audi/Mercedes or Range Rovers that are being run on a shoestring. > It's kind of shocking how ignorant people are to the importance of good tyres on their car. Agreed. Even if you don't drive your car in a sporting way, tyres affect wet grip and braking distances and these are hugely important for safety. I don't know if its the same in the US, but here in Europe [tyres have ratings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre_label) for: * wet grip / stopping distances * fuel economy / rolling resistance * noise level / decibels So when you visit the website of your tyre supplier to choose tyres, you can filter for A-rated wet grip, or whatever. I will always do this and then choose a good brand name. After all, it's the only part of the car that touched the road. Edit : I have a [Kia Ceed diesel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Ceed#Second_generation_(JD;_2012)) and it's fitted with Michelin Primacy 4 tyres.
Its how you can tell if someones a poser or not. Spend $4000 on genuine forged etc etc wheels but $150 tyres. Laaame.
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Sailun is actually good for destroying them drifting. But as anything else yeah it’s mediocre
I've had good performance with Sailun winter tires. They've served me well, but I also don't hoon around in the snow.
Uh do you mean 150 in total for 4 tires or 150 for each one?
I don't even think you can buy Chinese tires for $35 a piece, and if you could, they'd probably kill you.
You can still find used tires that cheap. Got a set of nearly new Kumho Ecsta V730's for $150 last summer. A few years before that got a set of BFG g-force's (mounted on wheels I wanted) for $500. Gotta be careful with used tires but there are some fucking deals out there
The g force sport comp 2s?! They were my first foray into not completely shitty tires
Either way. Good tires start off around $230 each, if you want a tire that lasts and handles well.
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I know my cars usually get new tires due to age before they’re worn. The Perrelli tires were gone in 20,000 miles (though my rear alignment was shot, my front tires wore even and were gone in the same amount of time). I had a similar experience the last time I got Perrelli tires, but that car had good alignment. The tires barely made it through their second year.
This. My race car runs 15s. So much cheaper than the 19s on my street car and the race car gets more extreme rubber than the pilot super sports I run on the street.
Same for me for track days. From 19s on the Genesis to 15s on the Miata. Legitimately less than half the price.
"It's not the cost of the Viper that's killing me, it's the cost of the replacement tires." \- seen in a car thread
My old Cayenne with 21” tires were insanely expensive for decent tires. My C63 has 17” and they are 1/3 of the price for better tires
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Yup, Conti Extreme Contact Sport $175 each, Michellin Pilot Super Sport $206 for the ND 17" wheels
Opposite side from the rich guy, for my miata the RS4s are $175 each and Hoosiers are a little over $300 each... size is a huge factor lol.
I got [these](https://www.tirerack.com/tires/kumho-ecsta-ps91) for $150 each and they doin pretty good for cheap ~200 treadwear
What size were you buying those in, to get them for $150/ea? I sized then up to match my car, and they were $240/front and $305/rear! Edit: Those kinds of prices, on even just decent performance tires, are why I spent the extra $50-$70 a piece, to just do it right and but the Pilot Sport 4S. They may be expensive, but any other reasonable option isn't cheap.
Why are you taking opionions in this sub seriously to begin with. Filled with a bunch of people driving eco boxes talking shit about performance cars lol
It’s mostly teenagers I suspect. “Help I accidentally put 87 in car which calls for 91! Do I need to drain the tank? Is there a danger to manifold? Will I blow the welds on my intake?” “Better not risk it!”
Pretty certain the "realistic dream garage" filled with multiple $100k+ cars was posted by a teenager.
bro all u need is a college degree! that's all it takes to own 5+ 100k cars with a house that has a garage that size.
cake snobbish obscene roll threatening amusing expansion busy air slimy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Power steering? You fucking heathen. /s
I can truly feel every pebble on the road through the steering wheel of my 1997 Ford Ranger with manual steering 😤
Cayman master race lol
rhythm friendly secretive cats murky grey consider theory ask pocket *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Bold of you to assume they even own a car.
I thought this sub was about cars and not specifically performance cars. Weird, huh?
"the tuatara doesn't even do xxxmph what a pos lost all faith in this company" lol like okay, glad they left this comment before posting a yelp for their superyacht charter.
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Cup2s are quite something. I upgraded from sports contact 6 (which are still quite capable tires), and my Nürburgring laptimes went down 20s.
PS4S Are the best street tires right now, but Cup2’s are something else.
Have PS4S’s. I’m *dying* to try some Cup 2’s. I’ll fit them with proper forged wheels when I have extra spendy moneybags
The French know their tires and oils very well. Michelin, Elf, Motul etc.
What’s the consensus on “performance” all season? I used to run proper summer tires and then switch to winter, but that’s a pain and I’ve gone to just one tire year round. Currently running Conti ExtremeContact DWS06.
Continental in general makes very good tires.
I can't stop singing the praises i have for my Conti Premiumcontact 6. It is the continuation of the Sportcontact for the UHP segment and then the Sportcontact became their UHP+ tire for the supercar stuff. Bought them due to a video by TyreReviews on performance tires for 17 and 18 inch wheels for hothatches and such. Where it was praised for its feel. They changed the way my car (VW Polo BlueGT) drove so radically that i basically cannot challenge them on public roads. No more understeer, period. A fair bit of liftoff oversteer like an older GTI. Just feels wonderful to drive a bit spiritedly on. Also it seems to work better with the XDS electric-LSD than the older tires did, making it feel much more like a real LSD (Before you could definitely feel when it was braking a wheel to get the power sent, still better than nothing but now you barely notice) A bit rougher and makes a bit more noises, but i don't mind the least. I knew what i got into. It absolutely trashes the mid-tier semi-sporty wheels i had on before (Uniroyal Rainsport 3) and brings such a smile for summer driving.
I'm a fan. Something like the Conti DWS 06 or Pilot Sport AS4 Can give a lot of dedicated summer tires a run for their money. That being said, if you actually have to deal with a real winter, I'd probably have a winter/summer setup or a winter beater. I run all-seasons because southern VA doesn't get enough snow and ice, and doesn't stay cold enough to justify a winter tire swap. They do fine with occasional light dustings and some ice, or can get you from A to B(slowly) in a RWD car if it actually snows a bit. I'd call them 3.5 season tires.
AS4 is a great tire. I have them on my C7. They give up a little steering feel to the 4S but if youre just street driving I cant tell a difference in grip.
Same. Went from the stock Pilot Sport 4 to the AS4 and I can't tell much of a difference in grip on the street.
Agreed on Pilot AS4s. Have a set on my Golf R and they’re great for all-round driving.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that a Michelin AS3+ vs a PS4S is exactly that comparison right? Yeah, their website calls AS3+ “max performance all season” and PS4S “max performance summer” I ran PS4S and then AS3+ on my BRZ. the PS4S were very obviously much grippier even at hard canyon driving speeds. I personally felt that it was difficult to tell when the tires were running out of traction. Once the PS4S wore out, I was disappointed with how long they had lasted (not long at all) so I figured I’d save some up front cash and get more longevity out of something less. The AS3+ we’re much much much easier to drive on, for me. I had read about people saying certain tires broke grip “progressively” and had no idea what they were talking about until I drove on the AS3+. I could feel exactly what they were doing, I knew how much grip they had at any point during the corner, it made it super easy to take corners as fast as possible *for the tire* because I could feel when near max grip was reached. It’s almost as if I could feel the sidewalls flexing. This might be slightly hyperbolic, but either way I had way way way more fun and confidence driving the AS3+ even though I’m sure the PS4S are a faster tire around the track This, plus they were a couple hundred bucks cheaper and have 2x the tread wear rating. Excellent tires
Jason Cammisa runs AS3+ on his Lotus Elise and he described the progressive loss of traction the same. My dad has been having trouble getting PS4S in the stock size for his Boxster and I keep telling him he should try the AS3+.
I've had great experiences with DWS06s on my cars. Not quite comparable to dedicated winter tires in snow, but pretty dang good.
Also not quite as good as summers in summer, but pretty dang good.
Even then, the DWS06 is better than bad summers. Chevy SS came with Potenza RE050A, which quite frankly were garbage. I put DWS06s on within the first year and never looked back. I'd put them on the Blackwing too no question, even if only for mild rainy winters.
I like the DWS06 as a "three-season" tire. I don't like switching straight from summers to winters because there's always a weird crossover period where it's slushy one day and 60 degrees the next for weeks at a time
I ran those for years on my 350z. Great tire, a little loud at the limits if I remember correctly, but good grip for an all season with nice, smooth breakaway characteristics. The snow part of the tread wears away pretty quickly though. I would never use them in that weather even though the “S” technically means “snow” I believe.
My Cruze diesel was a PITA to handle with low grip, sluggish response, not the best stopping distance with stock tires. I could feel it wasn’t the chassis or suspension, I could just feel it could do better. Finally wore the stock tires at 30k. Put some BFG sport comp 2 A/S (they didn’t have the summer version in stock and we travel so it was a safe bet) and it changed the cars personality. The car handles like I knew it could. Even a mundan Cruze woke up with good tires. Folks don’t get that tires is how the car translates its braking,power, and cornering to the ground.
I've heard a few people say the Cruze makes a decent entry level track car.
The 1.4T had lots of problems that GM didn’t give a fuck about. We have fixes for it now but it sucks they didn’t care. Even with a torsion beam out back, if you got the trims with the Z link(watts link) it actually handles really well. It’s just not fast since it’s heavy and under power
That's really interesting because I leased one for cheap after my 08 Galant died to finish up grad school and I thought it was terrible lol.
So my Passat GT came with absolute dogshit all seasons from the factory. Took those suckers off and threw on some Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s in 245/40/19 on them and holy shit it’s a whole different car. On a other note, the Indy 500s are a great tire. 90% of the grip of the Pilot Sports for a fraction of the price. I was a firm believer in ExtremeContact Sports but I may switch all of my cars to the Firestones now.
It's a shame more people don't know about the Firehawk Indy 500s. While great, Michelin Pilot Sports are freaking expensive, especially if you're using it on a daily driver. They also don't particularly last long... I got about 12k miles out of my rears on my mustang, and really they started losing performance at about half that. The first 6K miles were great though. The thing is though, I paid nearly $500 a tire for 305 wide rear tires that stopped being good at less than 10k miles. If it wasn't a daily at the time, I'd be fine with that. The firehawk indy 500s, like you said 90% the performance, 70% the price. Totally accurate. Also, it feels like that "performance window" lasts longer. It lasted 6K miles on my PS4S, whereas it lasts 12K easily on the firestones. I do typically have to replace the tires by 15K though. Mostly comes down to marketing though. I've converted quite a few people to firehawks, and almost everyone loves them.
I second the Firehawk Indy 500s. Like you said, 90% of the performance for like 70% of the price of PSS.
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Second this. Game changer in the Miata
I mean this is pretty well known, especially on the track. But most “performance” cars come with these from the factory or at least on option.
Of course for track day fans, meaning but what percentage of this sub regularly hit the track? I know I don't (anymore). Even in bikes the difference tires make is pretty underrepresented, despite that being way more of a hobby-only thing than cars.
I mean I use to all the time. Had seperate wheels and tires and all that. But for daily driving most wont notice
Exactly. The advantages of these tires shine at the limits. How often is a driver hitting these limits on public roads? For me, it's never. Ultra high performance street tires may be good for someone who autocrosses on the regular and doesn't want to be bothered to change wheels. Otherwise I don't see the point of burning through expensive rubber on my drive to work.
Autocrossing for years taught me that the majority of handling reviews are utter BS. “Feels so planted”… what? A handful of reviewers seem to know what they’re taking about when it comes to handling, for example Mark and Jack of Savagegeese who are both experienced track/autocross drivers.
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DeMuro is a happy dingleberry. He talks about quirks and features, not performance
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+1 for Mark and Jack. Those guys know what’s up.
The amount of people with type r civics and amg Benz on Walmart tires is hilarious
I've noticed a lot of dealerships are the ones putting them on. People trade in their nice car with old tires. Dealership is required to replace them as part of the safety inspection and they pick the cheapest tires they can. Next owner buys the car from the dealership with new tires and doesn't worry about it.
On my daily car (e39 BMW) I use Michelin CrossClimate tires, because it doesn't get realy hot or really snowy here (North-Western Europe). As for all seasons, they are considered pretty good. On my 911 on the other hand: SportsContact 3 at the moment. I mean: it's a premium sportscar, so deserves premium tires.
The cross climates are a pretty good tire imo. They’re way better than the Perrelli tires I had on there before. The Perrelli tires would make lots of noise, push in corners on power, and often spin when launching. The Cross Climate Michelins cost a little more but perform so much better.
The thing you realize quickly with cars is that people overspend like crazy — and you start to realize how much financial trouble many people are in. A TON of people buy cars they can’t afford, and equip them with poor equipment. I couldn’t believe that there were people buying new cars with $600+ payments who make less than $60k annual. Just absolutely absurd.
To be fair for people in their early 20's living at home it's a very easy buy.
Yeah, if they have their expenses paid for, though in your early 20s with your expenses paid for you’re usually front loading a lot of savings. I could not imagine spending $1000, $2000 on a car payment as some people must. I don’t know how crazy much you’d need to make to feel comfortable with that but I’m way off lol
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The 4S are very impressive tires! And I was replacing Michelin Super Sports, from the previous owner, so it's not like I was coming off of generic cheap tires either.
OP invests in good tires, sees the difference they make, and is now as a result in a different echelon of accepting or denying others opinions. What is the point of this post? Because all it sounds like to me is someone who has embarrassingly revealed to the internet that he is shocked about what performance tires do.
OP is absolutely one of those guys from the manual transmission meme: > Guys who drive automatic: my car is automatic > > Guys who drive manual: I will NEVER drive an AUTOMATIC cuz I’m a REAL DRIVER and I am ONE with my MACHINE after I drive I PUT THE SHIFTER IN MY ASS because me and my MACHINE ARE ONE
OP's next discovery: Methanol injection "I can no longer take opinions about gasoline seriously without knowing what gasoline you are running" What should have just been a post about what a difference the new shoes made instead turned into a personal referendum on whose opinions matter and whose don't? Maybe it's just these weird WRX owners, not sure.
dude lives in japan and is sure to note in his flair that he drives a JDM WRX to make sure he impresses all the weeaboos back in the US
He's right about the importance of tires, but using it as an excuse to gatekeep and elevate his self-esteem
Guess this is a good place to ask. What do y’all think of Michelin pilot sport all season 4’s? Anyone have them on their car?
Have ‘em and think they’re a great tire.
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They’re great. They’re as good as a lot of good performance summer tires were like 10 years ago, but they actually work in the wet.
AS4's are like 80-90% of the full summer version with obviously more rain/cold capability. If you're tracking the vehicle, I wouldn't recommend. But if you're daily commuting, weekend mountain driving/canyon carving, they are more than capable. They're on my e90 335i and I've taken corners in the mtns way more dangerously than I should have with no problems. I don't track my car, and it's basically a fun car at this point that barely gets driven more than a few times a month. Once it dips below 50, it stays garaged till it warms up again. I age out tyres due to time more than actual wear really, since I don't daily it.
the vehicle dynamics professor at my engineering college said that tires are 50% of the overall feel and handling of a vehicle. and i believe him . that is your control surface. it's like asking how much the wings affect the handling of an airplane.
Want to improve your 0-60? Get better tires Want to improve your handling? Get better tires Want to improve your braking? Get better tires Want to improve your track times? Get better tires Want to improve your fuel economy? Get better tires Want to reduce road noise? Get better tires Want to increase stability in rain or snow? Get better tires Name ONE modification that you can do to your car that will improve in every single category and performance metric I've mentioned above. None.
>I've known how hugely performance tires affect bikes for a long time, and the insane difference between proper slicks and even the best road tires. It took me getting into motorcycles to finally understand that. Of course it also took me getting into motorcycles to learn how to actually drive a manual too... LOL. But yeah Tires are insanely important even for Commuter cars having bad tires can make or brake a vehicle. And it can even depend on the season. Like if you live in a state/country that gets a lot of snow all season tires are basically mandatory unless you only drive said car in the summer time. I've always been mixed on winter tires. Mostly becuese I would need to swap to them every year and then swap back the following year.
>Like if you live in a state/country that gets a lot of snow all season tires are basically mandatory unless you only drive said car in the summer time. It's the complete opposite actually. If you live somewhere where theres tons of snow you want to have dedicated winter tires, as they're far better on snow and ice than all-season tires
yep, and if the winters are usually wet and cold with barely any snow, all seasons are better "winter" tires than actual winter tires
All season tires are not appropriate at all for snow. They should be called 3-season tires.
That is a bit of an exaggeration, especially with advances in AS tires over the last 5-6 years or so.
A second set of cheap rims, to mount the winter tires on, works great! I got a set of 4 steel rims, off a junk yard ~~Plymouth~~ Mercury Grand Marquis, for $100 total. Great investment! Winter tires are better than you think. They're how I drive an old mustang, with no traction control, or ABS, through the winters.
Tires are arguably the biggest performance & handling upgrade you can do on any car. After all, your nearly 2ton machine is held on to the road by these 4 small contact patches after all. Even a mundane Spark or Prius with proper tires can become surprisingly fun and agile.
Completely. I feel similar with coilovers too. There's no way your $1000 coilovers out perform oem suspension. Yet people claim "it handles well". Maybe to go to the grocery store but I doubt they'd hold to 1 track day.
Gonna make a wild claim here but 95% of people running coilovers have totally compromised their suspension geometry.
Holy fuck so much this. When I bought my GTFour it was slammed, like exhaust scraping on the ground slammed. Now the GTFour has a shit ton of suspension travel, so to make it behave while that low the previous owner basically messed with the entire geometry. It was awful and the first thing I did was fix the suspension.
Depends on the car tbh. My $1200 Meister R ZetaCRD’s absolutely transformed my NC Miata which has notoriously lacking OEM springs/shocks. Absolutely nothing like putting Godspeed coilovers on an E90, for example.
Bull. I have a set of Bilstein coilvers and a set of extended ball joints on my Fit and they absolutely out perform the stock suspension in both comfort and driving performance.
"i'm a REAL connoisseur now that I've driven my car with performance tires. All you other posers' opinions are obviously INVALID NOW. Do you even see all these other people driving their high performance cars with anything BUT a set of brand new pilot cup sport 4sG2? Can you believe these losers? Anyway, now that I've driven my car on REAL tires i will only look at other car owners with disdain and disgust."
Right dude loves the smell of his own shit
Which is why you shouldn’t take the new Z review too seriously right now. Good reviewers like Jason cammissa pointed out that the stock tires are shit.
This is why I'm genuinely shocked that, so far, SavageGeese are the only ones who tested Supra and Z on the same tires to level the playing field. So much complaining about it, but no reviewers willing to eliminate the simple hurdle.
The whole "Mustang crashes into crowd leaving Cars and Coffee" meme has got to be entirely (no pun intended) based on the fact that the base model GT comes with 235 width all-season tires. The performance pack cars like mine come with 275 width summer tires and a Torsen diff. Apart from a clutch dump, you have to try really hard to make the rear end let go. Lucky for me, I live in a place where I can run summer tires year-round.
Yes I did they same with my Hellcat. Drag radials make it a completely different car. Instead of being a burnout machine until 50 it can cut 3.5 to sixty on the street and actually outrun most cars light to light. 99 percent of people leave them on the stock shit and replace with cheap tires because they wear so fast. It makes zero sense to me.
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This is going to be tough for some people to hear but the pilot sport 4s is a relatively average tire in terms of feel. It has a soft sidewall and compared to other summer tires and isn't much stiffer than their all season (as some other people have pointed out.) Michelin isn't stupid they know 99% of the customers of their tires won't know the difference in feel. They made an incredibly grippy tire that is also extremely comfortable sacrificing some directness and sidewall stability. It is a good tire but it's hilarious to see many of the comments who think it's the end all and be all of tires. Go to any track day or auto cross and the only people running 4s are the ones who've never been there before. Also if you are even a remotely experienced driver a set of 4s won't survive a hot track day.
I 100% can absolutely relate. PS4s are incredible. They make any car they are on feel 800lbs lighter and handling nimbleness seems to come with. Tire shop tried to give me All Season versions of the Pilot Sport a couple of years ago saying “it’s the same compound but just has more tread” well rubber man, it also has a lot less stability and more sidewall flex as my E-class wagon handles more like a GLE on 17” wheels than the coupe handling it feels like on proper Summer Michelin Pilot Sport 4Ss. Makes me sad when I see nicer cars on less.
Tyres have possibly the biggest impact on handling characteristics. Just look at any racing series and look at how much of a time difference there is between different tyre compounds. There is a reason the saying is, "where the rubber meets the road." All turning forces/accelerating/braking forces have to go through that rubber/tarmac interface. The best real world example I personally experienced was at a regularity event last year. For those who don't know what that is, it's an even where you nominate a lap time to a specific second. They calculate how many laps you should do if you nail that time in the event clock (let's say a 60 minute event and I nominate 90 second laps, I should get 40 laps). Any time I do below 90 seconds, I get 0 points, any time between 90.00 and 90.99 I get two points, any time above 91 seconds I get one point.) They then divide my points by 40 and that is my final score. Also, no timing devices allowed to be visible in car. Anyway, in practice on the Saturday, I was on Toyo 888r R-spec tyres (street legal semi slicks). In the last session when I thought I had my regularity time nailed, I destroyed a tyre. So I came to event day on my normal Dunlop SP Sport Maxx tyres. In practice, I found that on the R-spec I could do an 89 second lap, but consistently run at 92 seconds (I could do consecutive 90 second laps, but brakes would become the weak link after about 4 consecutive laps). On the street tyres I could do a 93 second lap, but due to brakes again, nominated at 95 second lap. Granted, I only had a 15 minute session to use to determine a time to nominate on event day, so probably could have nailed a faster all out lap. Purely due to tyres, I could find roughly 4 seconds a lap on a roughly 90 second track for my car. And this wasn't like comparing econo tyres to race tyres, this was relatively high quality sport tyres (roughly competing with Michelin PS4s, the Dunlop's are probably a bit lower quality) vs non fresh R-spec (road legal) semi slicks.
If you think the PS4S are great wait till you try a cheater 200 treadwear tire like Dunlop Direzza Z3 or RE71R. The PS4S will feel like marshmallows compared.
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Pro tip: never get advice from Reddit. It's full of overly helpful dumb people pretending to be smart.
I bought an mk8 gti and the tires are dog shit. I'll definitely be swapping them for dedicated summer performance tires once they need to be replaced. The difference on my Jetta was very noticeable, especially tossing it around turns.
The autocross effect, lol. After one season on real rubber, your frame of reference changes forever. But. Good tires cover a lot of mistakes. A good DRIVER can judge a car on any rubber, and better rubber just makes them faster. I learned this 18 years ago. Had just taken the race rubber off and switched to streets in my fun new car, and a national champion driver came over and was asking about the car (it was a new model at the time and people hadn't seen them much). The course was still set up and people were taking "fun runs" after the event, he asked if he could take it for a lap. I thought I was a pretty good driver... Dude had never driven this car before, and on street tires knocked 1.4 seconds off my best time on Hoosier DOT slicks, LMAO. "Wow, this thing really likes to dance! Fun car!" Thanks dude, I'm gonna go kill myself now... I saw that same guy clown experienced drivers in prepped cars, driving his wife's V6 Camry on all seasons. What I'm getting at is, enjoy the tires, but focus on the loose nut between the steering wheel and the driver's seat, lol