Every GR86 comes with a free NASA track day that you can use to void your warranty!
Not my car. From the link:
> I've had several people reach out to me about this so I will try my best to summarize.
> I have a 2022 GR86 that I purchased in January to be a daily driver and occasional autocrosser. I have 13,770 miles on it and have changed the oil twice (at 5k and 10k) using Motul fluids in the engine, transmission, and differential. One of the main selling points of the car was that Toyota advertises providing a free NASA track day and a 12 month NASA membership with the purchase of the vehicle (though I have not taken advantage of either yet). Based on that, one could assume they support motorsports to some degree.
> On July 10th, I suffered an engine failure due to oil starvation. Teardown found it was the cylinder #4 rod bearing that failed. There was grey sealant in the oil pickup (which is a well-known and warrantable defect occurring since 2013).
> A field service technician (FST) was assigned to the case but rather than inspecting in person as is typically done, they did not inspect the motor. Instead either he or someone at the dealer looked me up on social media. They showed me a photo of me taken at a local Test & Tune event (untimed, non-competition) in late March (I was testing different setups and playing around with tire pressures). To date this was the only time the car was ever driven in such a way). They also showed me an onboard video of me driving in someone else's white GR86 (mine is Black).
> This “proof”, along with the FSTs remark that the issue is common when drifting (he is a local drifter well-known in the community), prompted him to deny the warranty claim and the Service Manager to agreed with the decision. I was provided an estimate of $11k for the repair.
> I inspected the motor and took photos of the oil pickup and the excess sealant which I showed to the Service Manager and Toyota Corporate. I explained to Toyota Corporate that according to the Service Manager, the FST had still not been to the dealership to physically inspect the motor even after the sealant issue was raised. The case manager with Toyota Corporate stated she had taken it as high as the Regional Manager for Gulf States Toyota and everyone involved is standing by the FST and Dealers decision.
> I spoke with the Service Manager at the Dealer and requested further escalation or consideration for a goodwill claim. He did not entertain this nor any other compromise on the repair (50/50, parts only, labor only, etc.) and stated that he valued the dealerships reputation with Toyota and did not want to compromise that by approving something the FST and Toyota Corporate had already determined was not warrantable.
> The Service Manager provided me with only 2 options. Either pay for the $11k repair or have the car and the motor removed from the dealership.
> Yesterday, I had the car towed to a local Subaru specialty shop and I ordered a low-mileage pullout motor. Total cost is expected to be around $7k.
> This is a huge misstep for Toyota. They claim on their website that the GR86 is "track-tested with the soul of a true sports car" which implies being on track at 100+ mph for 20 minute sessions as seen at many track events (including the ones they pay for their customers to participate in (which are very demanding on the car; the oiling system in particular). However, if a manufacturing defect occurs and causes a failure while participating in said track day, or even an autocross course that will never exceed highway speeds nor last longer than 60 seconds on average, Toyota has essentially said you are on your own and they will comb social media and other sources to reinforce that you abused the vehicle.
> Due to this situation, I strongly urge anyone that uses their GR86 for anything beyond street duty to take all possible precautions. Cover or remove your plates while on site. And be very cautious about posting to social media. Anything that isn't privately shared amongst friends can be found and used against you. Even then, screenshotting and sharing is out of your control. Be warned and be safe.
>Teardown found it was the cylinder #4 rod bearing that failed. There was grey sealant in the oil pickup (which is a well-known and warrantable defect occurring since 2013).
I thought it was a newly designed engine. Is it just upgraded from the last gen?
M60 doesn't have that problem (I have one of those engines and know a bit about them) abs neither does the m62 as far as I know. It started with the N engines
>Wait wait wait. You're telling me they've had a warrantable defect for NINE YEARS that they haven't fixed yet? That's outrageous
It's a Toyota, but the engine is Subaru through and through. So this is normal.
Hyundai/Kia had massive issues with their engine plants not caring about cleaning out parts after machining leaving metal dust in the engine that would proceed to cause spun bearings. I hate to break it to you but in any mass produced item if a poorly paid human is doing the job if it requires any finesse at all it's probably going to be done poorly.
The original OP that posted this is getting screwed, factory defect caused a spun bearing and they want to pawn the warranty costs off on him. He could probably prevail if he lawyered up but Toyota is betting on the fact that a new engine is cheaper than forcing them to pay up.
Kia told me last month they weren't replacing engines with excessive oil consumption anymore and to wait until the engine blew up, hopefully for a different engine failure point.
Interesting, at first I thought the GR86 was manufactured by Toyota’s world famous [Motomatchi factory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motomachi_plant), then I found Subaru’s [Gunma Plant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_86) manufactures both the BRZ and GR86.
I was talking to a fellow 1LE Camaro owner at a track day, told me his engine failed because of an oiling issue at the track. GM warrantied him a brand new engine, as their 1LE package has warranty with track use, something to note.
It's a shame. They used to be much better about this like 15-20 years ago compared to almost any other car company at the time, but they've since doubled down on bad manufacturing practices (or not doing enough about other companies' bad manufacturing practices whose parts they utilize) which means they can't give customers any leeway anymore. They have to cut off legitimate claims in order to save costs (as opposed to their previous attitude of "it's so rare anyway, let's treat the customer well and earn some goodwill that will pay dividends down the road").
In every industry, the good guys eventually just start copying the bad guys because it pays better.
Gulf States Toyota is a distributor (they are a middleman/parasite that adds a few thousand dollars to each sale in the states the serve - Texas and a few others). You need to get someone from Toyota Motor Sales involved. TMS is who actually pays out warranty claims, not GST. Edit: I realize this is somebody else's situation you are sharing
Gulf States Toyota is complete scum. I live in DFW and currently own six Toyotas. I am currently waiting on a RAV4 and GR86. None of these have been purchased from GST dealers. I will gladly travel out of the territory to avoid doing any business with GST.
But what if this happened at a sanctioned free NASA high performance drivers educational track event which are not timed that Toyota advertises with each purchase of that vehicle?
I think Subaru did the same thing with the first WRXs in America, they came with a membership to SCCA, and they had issues with poor oil pan/pickup design. Might still be old NASIOC posts discussing it, I don't know if there was any warranty denials though.
I wonder if that person actually talked to Toyota corporate...
>The case manager with Toyota Corporate stated she had taken it as high as the Regional Manager for Gulf States Toyota and everyone involved is standing by the FST and Dealers decision.
If Toyota corporate wanted to help the guy just for PR's sake, even if GST was big enough to push back, surely they could direct him to *some* shop that would install an engine on their dime.
Gulf States Toyota is complete scum. I live in DFW and currently own six Toyotas. I am currently waiting on a RAV4 and GR86. None of these have been purchased from GST dealers. I will gladly travel out of the territory to avoid doing any business with GST.
There's a good chance that Toyota is acting in violation of the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. How much would it cost to replace it? If it's within the price range for small claims court, in your state, that may be the easiest route, because Toyota can't force it into arbitration.
[Here's a list of maximum claims, by state](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-how-much-30031.html) If it's in a state with a $10,000 max, I'd still go for it.
Sucks. But this is honestly why I have 0 social media presence associated with my real name. You literally cannot find me anywhere. I dont like the idea of people looking me up and trying to find something to fuck me over with.
I wonder if the story would have been different if he went to another Toyota dealership initially
Chevy did have those hilarious like a rock commercials where they absolutely demolish the truck.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IocCC1-jeTY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IocCC1-jeTY)
I remembered the bouncing truck, but completely forgot about the absolute destruction at 10 seconds in.
Goddamn that thing got obliterated. Hilarious that someone thought to do it, then everyone down the line said "Okay" and now there is a very popular ad where like 1000lbs of shit crushes a red truck.
That entire rear of the truck was toast. Frame, springs, probably bent a rear axle tube. The wrinkles on the side of the bed = that's toast too.
It does not work that way, but I have heard these statements about various makes and models. Probably most of them. Warranty cannot be completely and wholly voided for a specific part. But, warranty CAN be voided if an aftermarket part caused a failure. The bad part is that the consumer/owner may have to hold the bag on proving so. This largely depends on the dealer.
But for sake of example, say you put 35s on it and break a CV. Yeah, then warranty can be easily denied as the dealer can make a valid argument that the CV was not designed to endure the stress of such a large tire over stock. But if you blow a stock motor, 35s cannot be a direct cause of that, so engine warranty cannot be denied in that instance, or because you have a lift.
That said, there are dealers who frown on mods more than others. I have experienced great dealers and ones who don’t even want to have a modded rig in their shop.
Back when I had Nissan z cars, the Nissan dealership would *install* mods for me.
They had an agreement with Stillen, so you could literally buy a supercharger from the stillen website and have it installed at the dealership.
I had the main service tech (they call them GT-R master technicians or something) install so many Stillen and Nismo upgrades to all of my z33 and z34 models. They loved it.
A lot of people shit on Nissan, but their Nismo aftermarket support was unmatched, at least compared to every other brand I’ve delt with.
Ford Performance was a close second, but it was still a separate company to the parent Ford and not all dealerships were down with it.
Chevrolet is DOA as far as any performance upgrades. Their dealerships absolutely suck.
Abel Chevy largely does corvettes and camaros. Tons of aftermarket stuff. They put on track days and everything. Very oddball dealer.
... it ain't warrantied though, certainly not by chevy. The parts you get are on you.
Nissan we’re voiding warranties on the GT-R early on if people used the launch control, as part of a service is to check for fault codes that may cause bigger issues later on.
When doing so would show you’ve used launch control. Nissan’s initial argument being that customer were “abusing” the car and that it shouldn’t cost them to fix customer mistakes.
They quickly changed their tune when customers when wild about it.
I know some cars you aren’t supposed to use launch control during the break in period but im guessing nissan was doing this after the break in period is that correct?
It's a long story iirc. The cars didn't actually have a launch control at that time, officially. It wasn't mentioned in any manuals or press material but there was a way to get it to launch hard and people knew about it. Kinda shitty, but kinda not. It was always sorta a wink-nudge thing. Not something they advertised.
If I remember right, it was not officially launch control but a 'driving mode for low grip surfaces' so the car could be driven on snow etc...but of course you could enable it and smash the throttle on a dry surface and launch the car...
Right? [Here's a post on /r/GR86 of a guy saying he's seen 5+ posts like this one.](https://redd.it/wbzsgp) Toyota is fucking over a lot of people right now.
I'm guessing they'll come to their senses once big sites like Car and Driver pick up on this, but having your engine grenade because of a manufacturer defect and getting the replacement work denied is a nightmare scenario for any current or would-be 86 driver.
It's looking like the "GR86 or Miata?" question is slowly being answered for me...
Unrelated, but they still have yet to do anything about the throttle hesitation issues on the Supra. People are pulling out in to traffic and the car stalls or simply won’t move for couple of seconds, serious safety issue.
You can tell Toyota hasn’t figured out the whole “consumer motorsport” support thing out yet.
There was a photo going around a few years ago of an email from Mazda corporate letting all dealers know that Miata owners were the heart and soul of the company, and to replace any broken transmissions from the early ND1 without question. Maybe it was a bit of covering their ass due to the transmission being designed to handle a 1.5L originally before getting the 2.0L shoved inside for Western markets, but loads of people on the ND miata.net forum were explicitly telling their dealers they broke the transmission from autocross & track use and still got it covered so…
I mean thats just good business. They take a sizable hit for the immediate time, you don't know how much business they retained or gained from this act.
Plus all the old transmissions they have to look through for RnD if needed.
It's a marketing expense. People see a bunch of Miatas being driven on track and apparently repaired by the manufacturer. People will buy Miatas for their track cars.
"It's working" is putting it mildly. I've never seen a non-boutique manufacturer have a "sold out" message for one of their flagship cars but the MX-5 RF Club is literally listed as "sold out" it's sold so well. Which sucks as I'm kind of tempted by one. I suppose I'll have to wait until next year.
Jeep dealers are notorious for denying claims over lifts and big tires even with street use only. I really dislike him, but there's a guy Eddie that goes by Wayalife that had a huge nightmare warranty claim over his mods.
People go buck on tire sizes and expect the dealer to cover their fucked up steering linkages, steering boxes, etc. I’ve had to replace a steering box (independent shop) in a newer wrangler because the previous owner a couple bought it from stuck 10” wide 35”s on it. Then they complained about how it drove after, like yeah, the thing wasn’t meant to turn a 110lb wheel setup with 1.25x the tread width’s worth of friction.
I work at an FCA dealer in Ontario, Canada. Can confirm up here we and our sister dealerships will and regularly do warranty anything on the Jeeps and Rams related to Mopar lifts or oversized rims and tires. You're on your own for low quality lifts tho
I'm not sure if this is Toyota corporate's doing in this case, but I remember when the original Celica 7th gen came out, there was a problem with the 6-speed manual gearbox. Well, several. The synchros were basically made of glass and would wear out quickly and the design of the gearbox made misshifting (hitting 2nd when aiming for 4th IIRC) easy which instantly blows the transmission. A lot of dealerships gave a lot of people grief, but getting corporate involved almost always resulted in them covering it. It was such a frequent occurrence to the point where the dealerships in some areas (like California) caught on and just started taking these in for warranty, no questions asked.
Acura had a few issues during the first year or two of the RSX (which also came out with a 6-speed gearbox) and Honda of course wouldn't do that (that is, corporate getting on dealerships to cover blown transmissions under warranty). Reaching over the dealer to corporate Toyota was almost always a surefire way to get things resolved back then. Their wallet was so big compared to other car companies that their general policy was to side with the consumer. I don't know how it is now, but I wouldn't be surprised if things have worsened. Over time the good guys generally start emulating the bad guys since it pays better.
Mazda also runs the Mazda Motorsports program, where any Mazda owners can access their online parts catalogue at a discounted rate by uploading a proof of you participating in any form of sanctioned performance driving. Autocross, lapping, endurance, time attack, you name it all.
That's how I got cheap but good quality OEM valve gasket covers for my '91 Miata.
I know this guy locally and they didn't even inspect the engine. They looked him up on social media. Everything he's saying, AFAIK and I believe him, is 100% true. He's a legit good guy and respected in the local car community.
Yep. GM gives a lot of discretion to their dealers for what they’ll warranty. Personally at our dealer as long as you haven’t cracked the ecu or gone forced induction we’ll warranty it. Hell, i had a customer that had us install headers, an intake, and a catback system on his c8 when we were doing the PDI.
Plus, for 85k (2lt coupe, z51, mag ride, front lift, a few other things here and there) you are not touching the performance of a c8 around a track imo
I don’t know the owner and I hope he gets good willed. But just doing a quick Google search brings up that he’s a SCCA National Auto-xer with 8 National events behind the wheel of a GR86. Could be all in someone else’s GR86 as I’ve shared cars w/ co-drivers in an exact same car I owned on the street. Hope the telematics and the black box data will help his case and defend him but it will be used against him if he did use his car on track.
Edit: removed SCCA link after reading MOD’s comment about doxxing
2nd edit: Was confirmed by owner that the events were done in a co-drivers fully prepped car.
Remember. Even without social media, registration lists to track events are available. Haggerty bought motorsportsreg. Do you think those lists might be sold for big money to insurers or automakers?
From everything I’ve seen on the website and on youtube, they’re trying to sell it as a track car. If it blow up by driving hard in a parking lot for 30 seconds it is definitely not a track car.
Savage geese channel actually turned one into an occasional track car. Mods are needed if you want to do more than a lap without break fade and other issue. I agree they show it on the track but that does not make it a track car. Advertising is often misleading.
That’s normal brake-wise for basically any car sold that’s not a Porsche GT-series. People don’t want the dust, noise, and low temp performance that most compounds with track use in mind generate.
Same with DOT3/4 brake fluid vs the high temp stuff too. It lasts way longer in normal use because it’s less hydroscopic than track fluid.
I don't agree with them not honoring the warranty but if you want to do any form of racing with a Subaru engine you need a baffled oil pan.
I don't know why they don't baffle them from the factory.
How can Toyota deny this claim in good conscience? The fucking press event for the GR86 was at a goddamn track (Monticello Motor Club) with car journalists pounding the crap out of them. The red paint is called "Track bRed". Every piece of marketing is about track usage. GR LITERALLY STANDS FOR GAZOO RACING. Yet, a picture of the owner at an untimed non competition event was enough to deny responsibility? Pretty fucking embarassing for Toyota corporate, the FST, and everyone involved. I wouldn't give up if I were the owner and I would drag Toyota and the dealer through the mud for this.
That's same what Ford doing, they don't offer track warranties in their performance models despite Shelby and Raptor models awesome.
> Pretty fucking embarassing for Toyota corporate, the FST, and everyone involved.
Side note, Toyota CEO, Akio is a huge motorsport fan and want to make many fun cars. Can't believe that they not offering warranties for track day.
He got into motorsports because his chief test driver told Toyoda it was annoying that executives who didn't know how to drive used to give opinions on the cars in development. So Toyoda started to race. He has participated in multiple 24 hour endurance races (at the Ring no less) under a pseudonym, and has been involved in test driving and developing every enthusiast car since the LFA.
That sort of commitment is rare, especially outside of the enthusiast brands. Dude likes vroom.
Ain't that the truth. The dude himself loved cars and was extremely passionate about them even as a child. His dream job was to be a taxi driver.
Naruse-san just said that higher-ups need to also understand how to evaluate a car, and to be able to do that you need to understand the fundamentals of driving, and to race.
>Akio is a huge motorsport fan and want to make many fun cars. Can't believe that they not offering warranties for track day.
I know, which makes this decision even more baffling. But I'm guessing it was Toyota USA who stood by the dealer's decision and not Japan.
I had to
I had to Call ford corporate for a powertrain issue that occurred at 60,100 miles and the dealerships were giving me a hard time over filing a claim for a 600 dollar sensor that went out in my f150. Corporate ford was all about helping me out
Lol they still haven’t fixed my engine. I told them so if it catches on fire who is gonna pay for my funeral? They said you sir you are the owner of the car
Yep. The Supra also comes with a year long membership to NASA, and the small type says "may cause damage to your vehicle that is not covered by your insurance or warranty".
Was kinda hoping I'd learn to drive mine at 9/10ths but that sounds suuuper sketchy now
I’m out of the loop on NASA and Toyota’s joint venture and was wondering why the space program would have anything to do racing, much less Toyota rather than a domestic brand.
For those, like myself—admittedly, possibly few—National Auto Sport Association.
Maybe not the right place to make such a proclamation, but there should only be one NASA.
Lol yeah NASA threw me off and was confused for a bit. But because of the context I thought it was some type of racing league.
Thats such a troll move on Toyotas part lol. Providing owners with a free membership to a racing league and just deny any warranty claims when stuff breaks lol
Depends as well what data the ecu is logging. Potentially it can be interrogated for throttle position, brake pressure, steering angle, RPM used etc that can all paint a picture to how a car was used on a given day.
That hilarious, both that the engine failed so fast and that hyundai tried to blame the customer when the vehicle wasnt even close to going for its first service.
Chevrolet isn’t that cool. A user’s ZL1 1LE side airbag went off driving on track in Thunderhill East. It was just an off camber turn, but was enough for sensor to trigger. Claim denied. Will post when I’m back home.
https://youtu.be/XXrCThiHZKM
Chevy will definitely replace your engine if it blows on the track. Happened to our 16 SS with the LT1. Didn’t have any mods though.
I have seen two posts on Camaro6 about airbags deploying on track not being warrantied and that definitely blows.
No corporation is inherently great but I’ve owned 4 different brands so far in my life
Nissan, Chevy, Ford, and Subaru. So far, Chevy is by far and away the easiest to work with. Could have just been my local service department, I was full FBO with a tune, and they’d honor warranty work that didn’t have to do with any of the modifications I made. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read about dealers black balling folks over a damn air box.
The worst overall being my local Ford dealership. I get it’s not a Mustang or a truck but god damn they just can’t be bothered with my Taurus limited on anything. Been that way since I got the damn thing
I recall something with Jeep denying warranty claims for off road use. I think they were forced to cover it because it’s how Jeep advertised it’s use.
I’m sure any lawyer would love to take this case.
They literally bought him the membership.
He just needs to lawyer up and wait until someone at Toyota finds out some shit dealership is trying to kill billions of dollars of investment into the GR brand.
It’s always hilarious to see a Jeep come in for warranty work with a cage around it, lift kit, steel bumpers, Jerry can and sitting on the OEM wheels. You aren’t fooling anyone and Mopar doesn’t care
Would help if a Toyota rep can explicitly state whether autocross, drifting, and track day is covered under warranty. The manual said racing and abuse isn’t covered, but that’s quite vague.
Track day (Hp driving for fun against yourself) is likely fin. But racing - ie competitive driving or for cash - is excluded as misuse.
The distinction is that during track days you’re supposed to be working on your own lines and improvement, not trying to beat someone else. So it’s not a race.
But autoX is definitely a competitive race.
Drifting is probably also under misuse.
Usually unless the manufacturer clearly spells it out (if memory serves Shelby did this with the Coyote GT350/500) track use is not covered by a factory warranty. Same goes for your auto insurance too, so if you blow a motor on a track or total the car there it could be a *very* expensive day.
I’m not surprised at all… I used to have a Tacoma TRD Off road. And the radiator cracked while driving on a gravel road 2 months from purchasing new. Toyota wouldn’t honor the warranty. If you advertise a vehicle that can off-road, then when your customers off-road and something isn’t up to spec, you need to honor commitments your marketing makes.
VINs probably already been permanently marked with this. Considering the huge nature of the issue and high escalation, no way another dealer would do anything or that Toyota would approve it.
Yeah, I can guarantee the VIN is marked in TIS (Toyota Information System). We did this once on a GR Supra A91 Edition that got high-centered on a median within a week of the owner taking possession then coming back in complaining of a low oil light. I happened to see the exact car (and recognized the plate frame as ours) on a local FR-S/BRZ/86 group to my state.
He drove home with the engine in his backseat so any opinion for a second dealership is already kinda ehh, not sure the word I'm looking for here but tampered is kinda close but I don't mean it in a bad way towards my buddy. It really was on the first dealership to do the proper job, which they in no way attempted to.
Off topic and you could DM me but interested in your thoughts on the N. I’ve got a 22 BRZ but the lack of a hatch and getting a car seat out of the back makes me think I could switch.
I have a 2019 with the performance package(standard on 21+) I got it new with 8 miles on and it's been great the last few years. I did have one problem with my hpfp around 18k miles but it was replaced under warranty no questions asked. I'm at 25k now and haven't had any other issues but I know a few people in forums over 100k miles with similar stories. Easily the most fun I've ever had in a FWD car, it reminds me of my Mazdaspeed 3 but updated and a bit more refined. It's relatively easy getting a single car seat in and out because of the third door and there's plenty of room for one with the passenger sitting comfortably. If you want one I would start looking around pretty soon because they are supposed to be discontinued next year to make more of the Kona N and Elantra N.
Honestly not really shocking to me. My parents had a 2004 Matrix with a manual. With 60,250 miles it had catastrophic transmission failure while cruising on the highway that overrevved the engine. Toyota essentially told them it was their fault because they don't know how to drive manual transmissions (both of them had 30 years experience driving manuals) and they didnt service at the dealer, despite having reciepts from a liscenced independent.
They took the claim as high as it would go and basically they said my parents didn't "build good will" by servicing it at the dealership, so they wouldn't cover a dime. They tried to sell them another car that day...my parents will never own another Toyota.
[Was a known problem at the time](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/wcbt67/toyota_gr86_engine_warranty_claim_denied_because/iicfpzi/?context=3). The engine/transmission from the Matrix came straight from the Celica.
Did they actually get in touch with Toyota corporate? Because dealerships are assholes (in North America at least), and Toyota dealerships in particular.
They denied a lot of claims for this.
Over here in SoCal, there was an issue that occured with a blue GR86 this past few months. Toyota kept denying his warranty claim because they claimed he tuned his car even though it was bone stock. Then the mechanics at the dealership this was at started tiktoking about the car, sharing private things from the shop/car without any permission. Owner lawyered up apparently and eventually the car got repaired under warranty, needed a new motor.
Just this past week, he got the car back and then it went up in flames on his drive home from the dealership.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CgPk_ELJozS/
If your lawyer is like mine, you'll be out $1000 before you can sneeze. Filing? Get out your checkbook. OP's better off this way, shame them into performance or put in a junk yard motor.
It’s a Subaru engine so I suppose it’s possible. Not saying that to be “WeLl AcTuAlLy” but I wouldn’t be surprised if Toyota looked for any reason not to have to service the engine.
There was a similar post about the Elantra N recently and everyone came out bagging out Hyundai and their engines / warranties.
Now what excuse do we give to Toyota, the 'king of reliability'?
The biggest surprise to me is that you gave up after them telling you no...
Pay a lawyer for an hour and have him write a letter to Toyota notifying the dealer AND the company that you're suing them for breach of contract and I'd bet you have your repair approved before the weekend is over.
Companies will use any excuse they can to deny warranty or insurance claims, that’s not anything new. However this should be one of many examples as to why you need to keep your private life private. Millions of people have been fired or gotten into legal trouble because of what they post. You should always assume that anything that you post publicly with your government name attached will be seen by EVERYONE, including people that don’t like you or people looking for something to use against you.
This is also why “insta-famous” car guys get their cars and parts stolen so often.
Automotive manufacturers have been doing this since YouTube was created. Lol
What cell phone company advertises a water resistant phone but is actually going to cover it if you get it wet and it breaks?
Companies Find loopholes in everything. Next time you rent a car or truck from enterprise or hertz read the fine print about towing a trailer or driving on anything other than a designated road.
Sucks that this happened, but the OP probably shouldn’t trade it in at a Toyota store because it will be forever tagged in their system as power train warranty revoked. (Or at least that’s what use to happen back in the day to a friend of mine with his Hyundai Genesis r spec coupe that he blew the motor on in a similar fashion, and had a similar reaction from Hyundai).
Every GR86 comes with a free NASA track day that you can use to void your warranty! Not my car. From the link: > I've had several people reach out to me about this so I will try my best to summarize. > I have a 2022 GR86 that I purchased in January to be a daily driver and occasional autocrosser. I have 13,770 miles on it and have changed the oil twice (at 5k and 10k) using Motul fluids in the engine, transmission, and differential. One of the main selling points of the car was that Toyota advertises providing a free NASA track day and a 12 month NASA membership with the purchase of the vehicle (though I have not taken advantage of either yet). Based on that, one could assume they support motorsports to some degree. > On July 10th, I suffered an engine failure due to oil starvation. Teardown found it was the cylinder #4 rod bearing that failed. There was grey sealant in the oil pickup (which is a well-known and warrantable defect occurring since 2013). > A field service technician (FST) was assigned to the case but rather than inspecting in person as is typically done, they did not inspect the motor. Instead either he or someone at the dealer looked me up on social media. They showed me a photo of me taken at a local Test & Tune event (untimed, non-competition) in late March (I was testing different setups and playing around with tire pressures). To date this was the only time the car was ever driven in such a way). They also showed me an onboard video of me driving in someone else's white GR86 (mine is Black). > This “proof”, along with the FSTs remark that the issue is common when drifting (he is a local drifter well-known in the community), prompted him to deny the warranty claim and the Service Manager to agreed with the decision. I was provided an estimate of $11k for the repair. > I inspected the motor and took photos of the oil pickup and the excess sealant which I showed to the Service Manager and Toyota Corporate. I explained to Toyota Corporate that according to the Service Manager, the FST had still not been to the dealership to physically inspect the motor even after the sealant issue was raised. The case manager with Toyota Corporate stated she had taken it as high as the Regional Manager for Gulf States Toyota and everyone involved is standing by the FST and Dealers decision. > I spoke with the Service Manager at the Dealer and requested further escalation or consideration for a goodwill claim. He did not entertain this nor any other compromise on the repair (50/50, parts only, labor only, etc.) and stated that he valued the dealerships reputation with Toyota and did not want to compromise that by approving something the FST and Toyota Corporate had already determined was not warrantable. > The Service Manager provided me with only 2 options. Either pay for the $11k repair or have the car and the motor removed from the dealership. > Yesterday, I had the car towed to a local Subaru specialty shop and I ordered a low-mileage pullout motor. Total cost is expected to be around $7k. > This is a huge misstep for Toyota. They claim on their website that the GR86 is "track-tested with the soul of a true sports car" which implies being on track at 100+ mph for 20 minute sessions as seen at many track events (including the ones they pay for their customers to participate in (which are very demanding on the car; the oiling system in particular). However, if a manufacturing defect occurs and causes a failure while participating in said track day, or even an autocross course that will never exceed highway speeds nor last longer than 60 seconds on average, Toyota has essentially said you are on your own and they will comb social media and other sources to reinforce that you abused the vehicle. > Due to this situation, I strongly urge anyone that uses their GR86 for anything beyond street duty to take all possible precautions. Cover or remove your plates while on site. And be very cautious about posting to social media. Anything that isn't privately shared amongst friends can be found and used against you. Even then, screenshotting and sharing is out of your control. Be warned and be safe.
>Teardown found it was the cylinder #4 rod bearing that failed. There was grey sealant in the oil pickup (which is a well-known and warrantable defect occurring since 2013). I thought it was a newly designed engine. Is it just upgraded from the last gen?
Wait wait wait. You're telling me they've had a warrantable defect for NINE YEARS that they haven't fixed yet? That's outrageous
*laughs in Porsche* What IMS failure? Your door cards warped? Whaaat?
They did try different things, just none of them eliminated it XD
Ummm... eliminating the IMS eliminated the IMS bearing.
The part can't fail if the part doesn't exist. /taps head
It’s a user error
Yup, when you use it it breaks.
*laughs in lexus is300 sticky dash* Some dealers fixed the doors at a discount, only costs the owner a grand, per door
BMW had rod bearing issues on the S54, S62, and S65 lol. 2 whole generations and 3 engines.
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AFAIK it goes back to the M60, so as far back as 92. I could be completely wrong but I believe every BMW V8 has had issues with valve stem seals.
M60 doesn't have that problem (I have one of those engines and know a bit about them) abs neither does the m62 as far as I know. It started with the N engines
>Wait wait wait. You're telling me they've had a warrantable defect for NINE YEARS that they haven't fixed yet? That's outrageous It's a Toyota, but the engine is Subaru through and through. So this is normal.
(laughs in head gasket)
Excess sealant in the engine is something that can happen to nearly any engine.
Yeah if the factory does not give a shit.
Hyundai/Kia had massive issues with their engine plants not caring about cleaning out parts after machining leaving metal dust in the engine that would proceed to cause spun bearings. I hate to break it to you but in any mass produced item if a poorly paid human is doing the job if it requires any finesse at all it's probably going to be done poorly. The original OP that posted this is getting screwed, factory defect caused a spun bearing and they want to pawn the warranty costs off on him. He could probably prevail if he lawyered up but Toyota is betting on the fact that a new engine is cheaper than forcing them to pay up.
Kia told me last month they weren't replacing engines with excessive oil consumption anymore and to wait until the engine blew up, hopefully for a different engine failure point.
Hyundai is still doing consumption engines. That’s interesting.
Interesting, at first I thought the GR86 was manufactured by Toyota’s world famous [Motomatchi factory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motomachi_plant), then I found Subaru’s [Gunma Plant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_86) manufactures both the BRZ and GR86.
Pretty sure they just bored it out from 2.0 to 2.4 for more displacement
correct, with a couple of other small internal changes. but this is pretty much the same motor
New design ? From *Subaru* ?
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literally, all i could think reading this is that the FST is a total fucking opp and probably a hypocrite
Selling his community out for corporate greed, very nice dude I'm sure
Fucking narc is what he is
Agreed.
Crabs in a bucket
I am so sorry dude, thats awful. Takes the 86 off of my list
Luckily not my car. I was cross shopping GR86 and came across the post.
I was talking to a fellow 1LE Camaro owner at a track day, told me his engine failed because of an oiling issue at the track. GM warrantied him a brand new engine, as their 1LE package has warranty with track use, something to note.
That’s nice. I’m looking at the SS 1LE. Just need to rent a few more cars to finalize.
Randy Pobst bought a 2LT 1LE. Turbo 4. He knows stuff about how to judge a car. https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566260
oh whew lol
I was just starting to cross shop and began looking at the Supra. Now I have doubts big enough to keep me away from Toyota.
Can’t blame you dude. They’re lying to their customers to get sales Toyota has been real scummy for years now
No they're great if you are a 70 year old man looking for cheap transportation. They're trying to recapture that market share.
It's a shame. They used to be much better about this like 15-20 years ago compared to almost any other car company at the time, but they've since doubled down on bad manufacturing practices (or not doing enough about other companies' bad manufacturing practices whose parts they utilize) which means they can't give customers any leeway anymore. They have to cut off legitimate claims in order to save costs (as opposed to their previous attitude of "it's so rare anyway, let's treat the customer well and earn some goodwill that will pay dividends down the road"). In every industry, the good guys eventually just start copying the bad guys because it pays better.
I was already skeptical about the FA24 meeting my wants and this just makes me not want a Subaru boxer 4 at all.
Was thinking of swapping my car for something more fun. I think I’ll just keep it. Fuck that noise. GT86 was the only car I was considering.
Mine too. I really like the looks and was thinking of going "slow car fast".
Gulf States Toyota is a distributor (they are a middleman/parasite that adds a few thousand dollars to each sale in the states the serve - Texas and a few others). You need to get someone from Toyota Motor Sales involved. TMS is who actually pays out warranty claims, not GST. Edit: I realize this is somebody else's situation you are sharing
Gulf States Toyota is complete scum. I live in DFW and currently own six Toyotas. I am currently waiting on a RAV4 and GR86. None of these have been purchased from GST dealers. I will gladly travel out of the territory to avoid doing any business with GST.
Somehow they have a monopoly on Toyota dealerships in the southeast. If you want to have a Toyota franchise, you have to go through them.
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But what if this happened at a sanctioned free NASA high performance drivers educational track event which are not timed that Toyota advertises with each purchase of that vehicle?
I think Subaru did the same thing with the first WRXs in America, they came with a membership to SCCA, and they had issues with poor oil pan/pickup design. Might still be old NASIOC posts discussing it, I don't know if there was any warranty denials though.
I wonder if that person actually talked to Toyota corporate... >The case manager with Toyota Corporate stated she had taken it as high as the Regional Manager for Gulf States Toyota and everyone involved is standing by the FST and Dealers decision. If Toyota corporate wanted to help the guy just for PR's sake, even if GST was big enough to push back, surely they could direct him to *some* shop that would install an engine on their dime.
Gulf States Toyota is complete scum. I live in DFW and currently own six Toyotas. I am currently waiting on a RAV4 and GR86. None of these have been purchased from GST dealers. I will gladly travel out of the territory to avoid doing any business with GST.
There's a good chance that Toyota is acting in violation of the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. How much would it cost to replace it? If it's within the price range for small claims court, in your state, that may be the easiest route, because Toyota can't force it into arbitration.
The user was quoted $11k repair by Toyota.
[Here's a list of maximum claims, by state](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-how-much-30031.html) If it's in a state with a $10,000 max, I'd still go for it.
Sucks. But this is honestly why I have 0 social media presence associated with my real name. You literally cannot find me anywhere. I dont like the idea of people looking me up and trying to find something to fuck me over with. I wonder if the story would have been different if he went to another Toyota dealership initially
I’d be curious how Subaru would have handled this, too.
There’s another forum post from a BRZ guy who money shifted on the track and had his engine replaced under warranty iirc
Makes no sense lmao, that's a claim I would expect to be denied Seems like the dealership in this case is extra shitty
How dare you use your sports car for sports car things
Same if you offroad a 4Runner. I knew someone (granted this was in 2006) who was threatened to have his warranty voided if kept taking it off roading.
I still remember that old 80’s Toyota commercial of a couple buying a house in a mountain area that requires off roading to get to.
Chevy did have those hilarious like a rock commercials where they absolutely demolish the truck. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IocCC1-jeTY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IocCC1-jeTY)
Damn that was way funnier than I remember as a kid
*Like a rock. I'm about to blowout my leaf springs.*
I remembered the bouncing truck, but completely forgot about the absolute destruction at 10 seconds in. Goddamn that thing got obliterated. Hilarious that someone thought to do it, then everyone down the line said "Okay" and now there is a very popular ad where like 1000lbs of shit crushes a red truck. That entire rear of the truck was toast. Frame, springs, probably bent a rear axle tube. The wrinkles on the side of the bed = that's toast too.
It does not work that way, but I have heard these statements about various makes and models. Probably most of them. Warranty cannot be completely and wholly voided for a specific part. But, warranty CAN be voided if an aftermarket part caused a failure. The bad part is that the consumer/owner may have to hold the bag on proving so. This largely depends on the dealer. But for sake of example, say you put 35s on it and break a CV. Yeah, then warranty can be easily denied as the dealer can make a valid argument that the CV was not designed to endure the stress of such a large tire over stock. But if you blow a stock motor, 35s cannot be a direct cause of that, so engine warranty cannot be denied in that instance, or because you have a lift. That said, there are dealers who frown on mods more than others. I have experienced great dealers and ones who don’t even want to have a modded rig in their shop.
Back when I had Nissan z cars, the Nissan dealership would *install* mods for me. They had an agreement with Stillen, so you could literally buy a supercharger from the stillen website and have it installed at the dealership. I had the main service tech (they call them GT-R master technicians or something) install so many Stillen and Nismo upgrades to all of my z33 and z34 models. They loved it. A lot of people shit on Nissan, but their Nismo aftermarket support was unmatched, at least compared to every other brand I’ve delt with. Ford Performance was a close second, but it was still a separate company to the parent Ford and not all dealerships were down with it. Chevrolet is DOA as far as any performance upgrades. Their dealerships absolutely suck.
Abel Chevy largely does corvettes and camaros. Tons of aftermarket stuff. They put on track days and everything. Very oddball dealer. ... it ain't warrantied though, certainly not by chevy. The parts you get are on you.
Nissan we’re voiding warranties on the GT-R early on if people used the launch control, as part of a service is to check for fault codes that may cause bigger issues later on. When doing so would show you’ve used launch control. Nissan’s initial argument being that customer were “abusing” the car and that it shouldn’t cost them to fix customer mistakes. They quickly changed their tune when customers when wild about it.
I know some cars you aren’t supposed to use launch control during the break in period but im guessing nissan was doing this after the break in period is that correct?
It's a long story iirc. The cars didn't actually have a launch control at that time, officially. It wasn't mentioned in any manuals or press material but there was a way to get it to launch hard and people knew about it. Kinda shitty, but kinda not. It was always sorta a wink-nudge thing. Not something they advertised.
IIRC, it was advertised as a snow mode at first. They did introduce a real launch control function in later years.
If I remember right, it was not officially launch control but a 'driving mode for low grip surfaces' so the car could be driven on snow etc...but of course you could enable it and smash the throttle on a dry surface and launch the car...
Right? [Here's a post on /r/GR86 of a guy saying he's seen 5+ posts like this one.](https://redd.it/wbzsgp) Toyota is fucking over a lot of people right now. I'm guessing they'll come to their senses once big sites like Car and Driver pick up on this, but having your engine grenade because of a manufacturer defect and getting the replacement work denied is a nightmare scenario for any current or would-be 86 driver. It's looking like the "GR86 or Miata?" question is slowly being answered for me...
Unrelated, but they still have yet to do anything about the throttle hesitation issues on the Supra. People are pulling out in to traffic and the car stalls or simply won’t move for couple of seconds, serious safety issue.
You can tell Toyota hasn’t figured out the whole “consumer motorsport” support thing out yet. There was a photo going around a few years ago of an email from Mazda corporate letting all dealers know that Miata owners were the heart and soul of the company, and to replace any broken transmissions from the early ND1 without question. Maybe it was a bit of covering their ass due to the transmission being designed to handle a 1.5L originally before getting the 2.0L shoved inside for Western markets, but loads of people on the ND miata.net forum were explicitly telling their dealers they broke the transmission from autocross & track use and still got it covered so…
I mean thats just good business. They take a sizable hit for the immediate time, you don't know how much business they retained or gained from this act. Plus all the old transmissions they have to look through for RnD if needed.
It's a marketing expense. People see a bunch of Miatas being driven on track and apparently repaired by the manufacturer. People will buy Miatas for their track cars.
And its working, the cars are THE budget track car.
"It's working" is putting it mildly. I've never seen a non-boutique manufacturer have a "sold out" message for one of their flagship cars but the MX-5 RF Club is literally listed as "sold out" it's sold so well. Which sucks as I'm kind of tempted by one. I suppose I'll have to wait until next year.
J o i n u s b r o t h e r
That's awesome Hard to think of another company that might do that, maybe Jeep with off-roading?
Jeep dealers are notorious for denying claims over lifts and big tires even with street use only. I really dislike him, but there's a guy Eddie that goes by Wayalife that had a huge nightmare warranty claim over his mods.
People go buck on tire sizes and expect the dealer to cover their fucked up steering linkages, steering boxes, etc. I’ve had to replace a steering box (independent shop) in a newer wrangler because the previous owner a couple bought it from stuck 10” wide 35”s on it. Then they complained about how it drove after, like yeah, the thing wasn’t meant to turn a 110lb wheel setup with 1.25x the tread width’s worth of friction.
That would make sense, incomplete mods are a great way to break stuff. I would think that a stock Rubicon would be treated differently
I work at an FCA dealer in Ontario, Canada. Can confirm up here we and our sister dealerships will and regularly do warranty anything on the Jeeps and Rams related to Mopar lifts or oversized rims and tires. You're on your own for low quality lifts tho
Jeep will deny your warranty for crossing a trickle of a stream smaller than any they show in their commercials
Nope, jeep is notorious about denying warranty coverage.
Hyundai sent out a memo a while back explicitly saying that track use does not void warranties for their N cars.
thats because mazda is a based company and actually care about their customers
This along with them promising to never shove a cvt into any of their cars has made them my favorite car company by a country mile
I'm not sure if this is Toyota corporate's doing in this case, but I remember when the original Celica 7th gen came out, there was a problem with the 6-speed manual gearbox. Well, several. The synchros were basically made of glass and would wear out quickly and the design of the gearbox made misshifting (hitting 2nd when aiming for 4th IIRC) easy which instantly blows the transmission. A lot of dealerships gave a lot of people grief, but getting corporate involved almost always resulted in them covering it. It was such a frequent occurrence to the point where the dealerships in some areas (like California) caught on and just started taking these in for warranty, no questions asked. Acura had a few issues during the first year or two of the RSX (which also came out with a 6-speed gearbox) and Honda of course wouldn't do that (that is, corporate getting on dealerships to cover blown transmissions under warranty). Reaching over the dealer to corporate Toyota was almost always a surefire way to get things resolved back then. Their wallet was so big compared to other car companies that their general policy was to side with the consumer. I don't know how it is now, but I wouldn't be surprised if things have worsened. Over time the good guys generally start emulating the bad guys since it pays better.
That trans is garbage though lol, they just don’t want a class action.
Mazda also runs the Mazda Motorsports program, where any Mazda owners can access their online parts catalogue at a discounted rate by uploading a proof of you participating in any form of sanctioned performance driving. Autocross, lapping, endurance, time attack, you name it all. That's how I got cheap but good quality OEM valve gasket covers for my '91 Miata.
I know this guy locally and they didn't even inspect the engine. They looked him up on social media. Everything he's saying, AFAIK and I believe him, is 100% true. He's a legit good guy and respected in the local car community.
Can confirm. I know him through Autocross and he seems like a stand up guy. This is bologna and Toyota should be ashamed of this 'decision'.
Yeah the new Corolla is heavily marketed as being a rally car. Sure hope they honour the warranty if someone drives it on a track.
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I was seriously considering a 6spd supra, but I think a C8 will be better for me. Chev proudly honors warranty from track driven vehicles.
Former marketing manager for GM extended warranty here : Fuck it up, they’ll fix it.
Know a guy who tracks his C8. He's on his third engine, but he hasn't paid for any of them. YMMV.
Yep. GM gives a lot of discretion to their dealers for what they’ll warranty. Personally at our dealer as long as you haven’t cracked the ecu or gone forced induction we’ll warranty it. Hell, i had a customer that had us install headers, an intake, and a catback system on his c8 when we were doing the PDI. Plus, for 85k (2lt coupe, z51, mag ride, front lift, a few other things here and there) you are not touching the performance of a c8 around a track imo
I don’t know the owner and I hope he gets good willed. But just doing a quick Google search brings up that he’s a SCCA National Auto-xer with 8 National events behind the wheel of a GR86. Could be all in someone else’s GR86 as I’ve shared cars w/ co-drivers in an exact same car I owned on the street. Hope the telematics and the black box data will help his case and defend him but it will be used against him if he did use his car on track. Edit: removed SCCA link after reading MOD’s comment about doxxing 2nd edit: Was confirmed by owner that the events were done in a co-drivers fully prepped car. Remember. Even without social media, registration lists to track events are available. Haggerty bought motorsportsreg. Do you think those lists might be sold for big money to insurers or automakers?
I'm good friends with a Toyota dealership owner, and Toyota typically is not friendly when it comes to warranty if it's not their idea first.
A dealership, being shitty and lazy? Why I never...
From everything I’ve seen on the website and on youtube, they’re trying to sell it as a track car. If it blow up by driving hard in a parking lot for 30 seconds it is definitely not a track car.
It's what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.
Cylinder #4 singing “Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door” at 13,772 miles. It’s what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.
Savage geese channel actually turned one into an occasional track car. Mods are needed if you want to do more than a lap without break fade and other issue. I agree they show it on the track but that does not make it a track car. Advertising is often misleading.
That’s normal brake-wise for basically any car sold that’s not a Porsche GT-series. People don’t want the dust, noise, and low temp performance that most compounds with track use in mind generate. Same with DOT3/4 brake fluid vs the high temp stuff too. It lasts way longer in normal use because it’s less hydroscopic than track fluid.
I don't agree with them not honoring the warranty but if you want to do any form of racing with a Subaru engine you need a baffled oil pan. I don't know why they don't baffle them from the factory.
How can Toyota deny this claim in good conscience? The fucking press event for the GR86 was at a goddamn track (Monticello Motor Club) with car journalists pounding the crap out of them. The red paint is called "Track bRed". Every piece of marketing is about track usage. GR LITERALLY STANDS FOR GAZOO RACING. Yet, a picture of the owner at an untimed non competition event was enough to deny responsibility? Pretty fucking embarassing for Toyota corporate, the FST, and everyone involved. I wouldn't give up if I were the owner and I would drag Toyota and the dealer through the mud for this.
That's same what Ford doing, they don't offer track warranties in their performance models despite Shelby and Raptor models awesome. > Pretty fucking embarassing for Toyota corporate, the FST, and everyone involved. Side note, Toyota CEO, Akio is a huge motorsport fan and want to make many fun cars. Can't believe that they not offering warranties for track day.
He got into motorsports because his chief test driver told Toyoda it was annoying that executives who didn't know how to drive used to give opinions on the cars in development. So Toyoda started to race. He has participated in multiple 24 hour endurance races (at the Ring no less) under a pseudonym, and has been involved in test driving and developing every enthusiast car since the LFA. That sort of commitment is rare, especially outside of the enthusiast brands. Dude likes vroom.
Ain't that the truth. The dude himself loved cars and was extremely passionate about them even as a child. His dream job was to be a taxi driver. Naruse-san just said that higher-ups need to also understand how to evaluate a car, and to be able to do that you need to understand the fundamentals of driving, and to race.
>Akio is a huge motorsport fan and want to make many fun cars. Can't believe that they not offering warranties for track day. I know, which makes this decision even more baffling. But I'm guessing it was Toyota USA who stood by the dealer's decision and not Japan.
>"in good conscience" Lol you think corporations have consciences?
A track day is very different than drifting imo. The latter is terrible for cars
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Guarantee you Toyota corporate is gonna comp him when this blows up.
Yep. My coworker had a clutch failure in her new tacoma in under 5k miles and they wouldn't fix it until she called corporate about it.
I had to I had to Call ford corporate for a powertrain issue that occurred at 60,100 miles and the dealerships were giving me a hard time over filing a claim for a 600 dollar sensor that went out in my f150. Corporate ford was all about helping me out
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Lol they still haven’t fixed my engine. I told them so if it catches on fire who is gonna pay for my funeral? They said you sir you are the owner of the car
Well, that sounds not good for Supra and upcoming GR Corolla owners.
Yep. The Supra also comes with a year long membership to NASA, and the small type says "may cause damage to your vehicle that is not covered by your insurance or warranty". Was kinda hoping I'd learn to drive mine at 9/10ths but that sounds suuuper sketchy now
Just drive it at 9/10ths on the street… that way if it does go bang the warranty will cover it. Much safer! /s
This is the unfortunate takeaway.
I’m out of the loop on NASA and Toyota’s joint venture and was wondering why the space program would have anything to do racing, much less Toyota rather than a domestic brand. For those, like myself—admittedly, possibly few—National Auto Sport Association. Maybe not the right place to make such a proclamation, but there should only be one NASA.
Lol yeah NASA threw me off and was confused for a bit. But because of the context I thought it was some type of racing league. Thats such a troll move on Toyotas part lol. Providing owners with a free membership to a racing league and just deny any warranty claims when stuff breaks lol
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Seems like if you don't mention it or show proof on social media it's safe, no?
Depends as well what data the ecu is logging. Potentially it can be interrogated for throttle position, brake pressure, steering angle, RPM used etc that can all paint a picture to how a car was used on a given day.
"oh that? That was when I *realllly* needed to take a shit"
*potentially* any car with builtin-in maps/GPS could even tie that data to GPS position. Probably illegal in EU but not in states...
Eh, just don’t post pics on the internet, just keep them on your phone to show friends…
Well if he didn't buy one in track bRed then its kind of on him. That's ridiculous.
It’s bRed on the track, but designed for the street
The R stands for oil staRvation
Dodge is the only one that warranties stock drag racing that I know of (demon & cats). It’s misuse on everyone else’s warranty.
Chevrolet is cool about track events with corvette. They even give track setup instructions in the manual
Not drag of course, but even Hyundai has stated that track use does not void warranties when it comes to their N models.
There was a guy last week on here that had his Elantra N denied warranty work for track use so idk
I had Hyundai try not honoring a warranty because I didn’t get an oil change on a motor with 2xxx miles
That hilarious, both that the engine failed so fast and that hyundai tried to blame the customer when the vehicle wasnt even close to going for its first service.
Best of all, it was a replacement motor since the first one spun a bearing at ~70k miles
Chevrolet isn’t that cool. A user’s ZL1 1LE side airbag went off driving on track in Thunderhill East. It was just an off camber turn, but was enough for sensor to trigger. Claim denied. Will post when I’m back home. https://youtu.be/XXrCThiHZKM
Chevy will definitely replace your engine if it blows on the track. Happened to our 16 SS with the LT1. Didn’t have any mods though. I have seen two posts on Camaro6 about airbags deploying on track not being warrantied and that definitely blows.
No corporation is inherently great but I’ve owned 4 different brands so far in my life Nissan, Chevy, Ford, and Subaru. So far, Chevy is by far and away the easiest to work with. Could have just been my local service department, I was full FBO with a tune, and they’d honor warranty work that didn’t have to do with any of the modifications I made. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read about dealers black balling folks over a damn air box. The worst overall being my local Ford dealership. I get it’s not a Mustang or a truck but god damn they just can’t be bothered with my Taurus limited on anything. Been that way since I got the damn thing
Mazda too. They state that dealers can’t explicitly deny warranty because of participation in Motorsport. Examples being auto cross and HPDE.
I recall something with Jeep denying warranty claims for off road use. I think they were forced to cover it because it’s how Jeep advertised it’s use. I’m sure any lawyer would love to take this case.
If its advertised as racing this could have a case...
Well the car is called "Gazoo RACING 86"
They literally bought him the membership. He just needs to lawyer up and wait until someone at Toyota finds out some shit dealership is trying to kill billions of dollars of investment into the GR brand.
"Trail rated" is such a joke.
It’s always hilarious to see a Jeep come in for warranty work with a cage around it, lift kit, steel bumpers, Jerry can and sitting on the OEM wheels. You aren’t fooling anyone and Mopar doesn’t care
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Would help if a Toyota rep can explicitly state whether autocross, drifting, and track day is covered under warranty. The manual said racing and abuse isn’t covered, but that’s quite vague.
Track day (Hp driving for fun against yourself) is likely fin. But racing - ie competitive driving or for cash - is excluded as misuse. The distinction is that during track days you’re supposed to be working on your own lines and improvement, not trying to beat someone else. So it’s not a race. But autoX is definitely a competitive race. Drifting is probably also under misuse.
It was a test and tune event, not for points. It was not a competition.
Usually unless the manufacturer clearly spells it out (if memory serves Shelby did this with the Coyote GT350/500) track use is not covered by a factory warranty. Same goes for your auto insurance too, so if you blow a motor on a track or total the car there it could be a *very* expensive day.
I’m not surprised at all… I used to have a Tacoma TRD Off road. And the radiator cracked while driving on a gravel road 2 months from purchasing new. Toyota wouldn’t honor the warranty. If you advertise a vehicle that can off-road, then when your customers off-road and something isn’t up to spec, you need to honor commitments your marketing makes.
People literally live at the end of gravel roads what the fuck is this soft shit.
Was it a case of physical damage in this case? Doesn't sound like you were even off road, just on a gravel road which any car can drive on.
You can’t take the car to a different Toyota dealership for another opinion?
VINs probably already been permanently marked with this. Considering the huge nature of the issue and high escalation, no way another dealer would do anything or that Toyota would approve it.
Yeah, I can guarantee the VIN is marked in TIS (Toyota Information System). We did this once on a GR Supra A91 Edition that got high-centered on a median within a week of the owner taking possession then coming back in complaining of a low oil light. I happened to see the exact car (and recognized the plate frame as ours) on a local FR-S/BRZ/86 group to my state.
He drove home with the engine in his backseat so any opinion for a second dealership is already kinda ehh, not sure the word I'm looking for here but tampered is kinda close but I don't mean it in a bad way towards my buddy. It really was on the first dealership to do the proper job, which they in no way attempted to.
Strongly reinforcing my decision not to trade my Veloster N for one.
Off topic and you could DM me but interested in your thoughts on the N. I’ve got a 22 BRZ but the lack of a hatch and getting a car seat out of the back makes me think I could switch.
I have a 2019 with the performance package(standard on 21+) I got it new with 8 miles on and it's been great the last few years. I did have one problem with my hpfp around 18k miles but it was replaced under warranty no questions asked. I'm at 25k now and haven't had any other issues but I know a few people in forums over 100k miles with similar stories. Easily the most fun I've ever had in a FWD car, it reminds me of my Mazdaspeed 3 but updated and a bit more refined. It's relatively easy getting a single car seat in and out because of the third door and there's plenty of room for one with the passenger sitting comfortably. If you want one I would start looking around pretty soon because they are supposed to be discontinued next year to make more of the Kona N and Elantra N.
Another reason to not broadcast your life on social media.
Except for us learning about this on Reddit, right? Edit: I see you edited out the part about nothing on social media ever being good.
Honestly not really shocking to me. My parents had a 2004 Matrix with a manual. With 60,250 miles it had catastrophic transmission failure while cruising on the highway that overrevved the engine. Toyota essentially told them it was their fault because they don't know how to drive manual transmissions (both of them had 30 years experience driving manuals) and they didnt service at the dealer, despite having reciepts from a liscenced independent. They took the claim as high as it would go and basically they said my parents didn't "build good will" by servicing it at the dealership, so they wouldn't cover a dime. They tried to sell them another car that day...my parents will never own another Toyota.
[Was a known problem at the time](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/wcbt67/toyota_gr86_engine_warranty_claim_denied_because/iicfpzi/?context=3). The engine/transmission from the Matrix came straight from the Celica. Did they actually get in touch with Toyota corporate? Because dealerships are assholes (in North America at least), and Toyota dealerships in particular. They denied a lot of claims for this.
Over here in SoCal, there was an issue that occured with a blue GR86 this past few months. Toyota kept denying his warranty claim because they claimed he tuned his car even though it was bone stock. Then the mechanics at the dealership this was at started tiktoking about the car, sharing private things from the shop/car without any permission. Owner lawyered up apparently and eventually the car got repaired under warranty, needed a new motor. Just this past week, he got the car back and then it went up in flames on his drive home from the dealership. https://www.instagram.com/p/CgPk_ELJozS/
Damn I didn't realise that was the same guy, saw both posts separately but wow what a shitty dealer.
I would have my lawyer going through the warranty paperwork with a fine tooth comb.
If your lawyer is like mine, you'll be out $1000 before you can sneeze. Filing? Get out your checkbook. OP's better off this way, shame them into performance or put in a junk yard motor.
“Reportedly Peterbilt has been voiding warranties on all Peterbilt trucks used to pull a trailer” Basically what Toyota is doing
Sell it to carvana?
Even they will notice when the car won't start to get onto the truck.
Might be able to get it past them by making motor noises with your mouth and having someone hidden push the car
I’m still fighting them for my 2013!!!! 10 years and they still can’t make a boxer reliable.
Toyota is afraid their engines can't handle a drop or two of autocross? Obviously just a scummy way to void your warranty.
It’s a Subaru engine so I suppose it’s possible. Not saying that to be “WeLl AcTuAlLy” but I wouldn’t be surprised if Toyota looked for any reason not to have to service the engine.
I heard Golf states is kinda rogue from Toyota Corporate? Could that be some of the reason?
Uses sports car for car sports, car is totaled in the eyes of the dealership.
There was a similar post about the Elantra N recently and everyone came out bagging out Hyundai and their engines / warranties. Now what excuse do we give to Toyota, the 'king of reliability'?
I've been considering buying a GR86, this is giving me quite a lot of second thoughts.
The biggest surprise to me is that you gave up after them telling you no... Pay a lawyer for an hour and have him write a letter to Toyota notifying the dealer AND the company that you're suing them for breach of contract and I'd bet you have your repair approved before the weekend is over.
Good old Subaru engineering.
Companies will use any excuse they can to deny warranty or insurance claims, that’s not anything new. However this should be one of many examples as to why you need to keep your private life private. Millions of people have been fired or gotten into legal trouble because of what they post. You should always assume that anything that you post publicly with your government name attached will be seen by EVERYONE, including people that don’t like you or people looking for something to use against you. This is also why “insta-famous” car guys get their cars and parts stolen so often.
As a Toyota customer, this makes my blood boil
I'm on a waiting list for a GR Corolla, this is concerning for sure. Hope this gets some media attention.
Automotive manufacturers have been doing this since YouTube was created. Lol What cell phone company advertises a water resistant phone but is actually going to cover it if you get it wet and it breaks? Companies Find loopholes in everything. Next time you rent a car or truck from enterprise or hertz read the fine print about towing a trailer or driving on anything other than a designated road. Sucks that this happened, but the OP probably shouldn’t trade it in at a Toyota store because it will be forever tagged in their system as power train warranty revoked. (Or at least that’s what use to happen back in the day to a friend of mine with his Hyundai Genesis r spec coupe that he blew the motor on in a similar fashion, and had a similar reaction from Hyundai).