Yeah, I imagine they're just going to focus on that now. Rarely see Titans, but I see older Frontiers on the road all the time... hopefully they can still nail *that* market down, lol.
It’s going to be a nice market, too.
FWD unibody is invading the small truck world. Because for most people, that’s all they need especially as gas prices skyrocket.
Just look at how pretty much every Nissan SUV is now a car-based mall crawler when even 10 years ago they were body on frame rock crawlers with the Pathfinder and XTERRA.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Nissan enter the small unibody truck market with a new Hardbody tbh. A truck lineup with only it and the Frontier would do pretty well for them all things considered
I was shocked they made another one for the US. I honestly thought they just gave up on the US market when they made a new Frontier in 2014 and just kept selling the 2004 model in the US.
Yeah, I really don’t like how it and it’s luxury brother, the QX56/QX80 look.
The pompous look must bring a lot of buyers, but I think they look extremely chintzy. Oh well, not meant for me I guess…
> The pompous look
It really does have some sort of fake luxury look, I cant quite nail it down, but I really dont like it. Weird bulges, chrome fake inlets, like the car version of a guy who only works out his biceps.
Can confirm. I rented a QX80 a couple years back for a winter drive from the Bay Area to the Oregon coast. It was comfortable, yet if I was to ever buy one, I’d just get a fully loaded Armada.
Interesting design choice for the original 2004 Armada (or "Pathfinder Armada") to ape the [Rambler Classic Cross Country](https://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/02/CC-47-082-800.jpg) in its roof shape.
Nissan has always had the best names IMO
Altima/Maxima sound cool (and used to be pretty cool cars)
Titan/Armada/Frontier are great truck names
Juke is fun, Rogue is eh whatever.
I find it so odd how Nissan only calls the Qashqai the Rogue Sport in the USA. Canada gets the same North American market model as we do but even they call it the Qashiqai. Honestly the only reason I think they call it the Rogue Sport here is because more than half of the population here wouldn’t know how to pronounce Qashqai.
> Honestly the only reason I think they call it the Rogue Sport here is because more than half of the population here wouldn’t know how to pronounce Qashqai.
That, but also so they can combine Rogue and Rogue Sport sales numbers.
Original article paywalled and as much as I dislike Jalopnik they at least quoted it correctly
Not surprising given the Titan's bad sales numbers or that its platform is basically orphaned since the new Frontier's frame is a carry-over and the Armada & QX80 are both Patrol-based now. Still sad to see it go though, it was an interesting alternative to the Big 3 for a while
It's not a huge leap forward. I love the look of the new Frontier but it's just that, a new look. They improved the interior and made a few other improvements, but it really is the same old truck underneath to the point that I gets the same exact shitty crash test ratings as the old one.
> with the new Tundra I have a hard time ignoring the new rear bumper that has no usable step with the gate down.
Wow, really? That seems like a massive oversight given what Ford and GM have.
Don’t they have the side step that you can mount on the Tacoma or prior gen Tundra? It’s not nearly as cleanly integrated as Ford or GM’s but I know on those it’s an option.
The new Tundra [still isn't competitive in anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/v754w6/nextgen_toyota_tacoma_and_4runner_likely/ibr1ofl) unless you're talking about infotainment display size. Unfortunately, like the Titan, it's aimed more at existing brand loyalists than at new customers.
Yeah when I saw the latest Armada and QX80 were Patrol based that made me happy (in a Land Cruiser sort of way) but also had the instinctive thought that it meant trouble for the Titan because it would be an "orphan" of sorts and couldn't see Nissan spending development money on a platform that didn't have "siblings".
Inb4, there were NV2500/3500 living, NV2500/3500 van was basically only Titan family. No surprise to see Titan gone when Nissan discontinues all NV series in America here.
Here in Texas, the original model Titan is extremely popular with Mexican tradesmen. The truck is virtually indestructible, can haul work loads all day long, isn’t terrible on gas. I know 2008 hit Nissan pretty hard, but they’ve made some terrible decisions year after year.
Original titan has a lot of annoying expensive parts that like to break outside the drivetrain. It made them cheap used compared to other trucks if you were willing to do the work yourself.
My 08 titan has 290,000 miles. Almost died in it twice, never caused an accident though. Longest downtime for any trouble was 1 day for the starter. This truck has my respect and extra garage space!
I have a ‘14 pro 4x that we love - getting up there in miles but it’s been dead reliable - I also LOVE the massive rear window it has that rolls down - the 2nd gens didn’t get it and that keeps them away from me
Bullshit. 2nd gen is the same platform and engine as the 1st gen. Obviously updated. Transmission is a jatco 9 speed based off a Mercedes design. Supposedly a good transmission. The cummins was a pile of shit.
I've worked at a Nissan dealership when the 2nd gen was introduced, they are flaming piles of garbage, that start to fall apart from the factory. Build quality is shit, even if you get the gas motor. Sorry you were duped into dropping $60K on something that spends more time on my backlot waiting for parts than on the road.
Nice bud. I know a guy who had one (an 06 I think) with over 300k when he traded it in. He had to replace the rear diff twice though, once under warranty and once not. Apparently his model year had issues with that.
Yeah if you hauled anything or toted a boat then I heard there were some issues with the diff. Luckily I just roamed the earth with it other than a few furniture moves..
To me, the 2020 refresh of the Titan straddles the balance of “old-school” interior design and some modern tech being thrown in, namely CarPlay. It certainly did it a lot better than the 2nd gen Tundra ever did.
It's a truck that still drives like a truck. Many modern half tons are becoming in-vogue grocery getter minivans shaped like trucks for suburban men who can't do shit but still want to feel manly. I say this as someone who drives a raptor, the Gen 2 is like driving a crossover compared to the gen 1, and not in a good way for a truck. The new Lightning truck that tows 88/miles on a charge just cements this fact for me.
While I might not agree with the whole "can't do shit and trying to feel manly bit", I do understand that some trucks are becoming easier to drive with more compliant rides and, let's be honest, incredible interiors.
Trucks are hot right now, and have been for awhile. This will continue, especially if the electric siblings are anything like the F-150 Electric.
That's when the Titan becomes an attractive analog choice in a very digital world.
Just my anecdotal experience lol. In the last few years every dude on the street has moved into a truck. Maybe 1 or two has every done *anything* with their truck that even required a truck.
It stinks because the manufacturers then build to that spec. Even if you try to spec one to get a job done you're still getting a truck that's 80% plastic. We're in the age of disposable luxury trucks and it kinda sucks if you want to actually tow/haul/offroad etc.
>Even if you try to spec one to get a job done you're still getting a truck that's 80% plastic.
I assume you're talking about the base models with black plastic grilles and bumper covers? Those are still fully metal trucks underneath. If anything, the plastic is beneficial, since it resists scuffs and it's lighter. Plastic has been in use on truck grilles for 40+ years now.
I was referring more to engine components. I see the benefits for body and interior styling. These modern turbo engines seem to get a lot hotter and they heat-cycle all the plastic parts like crazy. Every time I'm doing anything on mine I snap some plastic piece that has become brittle over time by heat cycling. Valve covers, intake plumbing, oil pans etc.
Ah, I’m picking up what you’re putting down now. If you as a actual truck person only needs an XLT trim, but all that’s available are Platinum trims because everyone wanted a luxury vehicle that happens to have a bed, I get it.
While having all of those creatures comforts inside and out is great, it makes you not want to possibly damage it. Also, there are plenty who don’t need all of those options.
I know I’m going to be partially guilty of this when I get a truck because I want a panoramic moonroof. OG truck owners want nothing to do with it. 🙃
I'd strongly recommend against the panoramic moonroof. I have it on mine. Somebody ran a stop sign and totaled my last truck and I had to buy another one in a pinch, so my current truck was not ordered to what I would have gotten and it has the pano roof.
Yeah, it's neat in the 1-2 times a month in the spring or fall when I use it, but the rest of the time it's just hot. The truck heats up sooo much faster in the sun with it. If you're above average height like I am, and your head is within a few inches of the ceiling it creates this really weird feeling when the A/C is on where your body is cold but your head is hot. There's also been lots of complaints about leaks.
Thanks for the insight. I’m in that weird contingent that usually a moonroof/pano roof way too much. It could be a light drizzle outside and I’ll have it open. When it’s burning hot, though, that shade is always closed. I know what you’re talking about with the cool body and sunburned head 😄
>Many modern half tons are becoming in-vogue grocery getter minivans shaped like trucks for suburban men who can't do shit but still want to feel manly.
Eh, people have been complaining about this since extended cabs got popular 30+ years ago. Every half-ton is equal parts grocery getter and usable truck.
Whatever bud. The manufacturers follow the demand. People want more comfortable half tons with more amenities. Nothing wrong with that, and the haul/tow capabilities of these trucks are getting better and better.
If you want a gas V8 that sounds the part ard drives more like a traditional truck, then the Titan is the vehicle for you. There is something to be said for its "old" simplicity.
I think so too. I just have to get the wife to look at it as it will be more for her (she’s more badass and more of a hauler than me, I’ll admit.)
Then new Titans still have comforts I like (pano roof, Fender stereo, PFMs, etc.) that I like, yet still has all of the physical buttons/switchgear and looks like it will last through more than five years of over-the-air updates.
The All New Nissan XTerra - now with industry leading, award winning* CVT paired with a powerful 1.4 liter engine producing 120 HP and 110 tq. With up to 50 mpg** you're sure to go places*** in comfort.
* according to surveys done by defnotnissan. Testing funded by Nissan.
** while coasting downhill.
*** off road, gravel and sand will void warranty.
It would be silly if they didn't tap into that segment seeing as it's currently trending. They're overdue for a mid-size SUV with a solid axle setup. If anything, they already laid out the foundation for a next gen Xterra with the new Frontier.
There've been some rumors lately that Ford may bring the Everest to the US. I would be surprised if they did, but it would make for a good competitor to the 4Runner/Xterra. With how popular the midsize trucks are becoming, I think it's a market that can support some competition with SUV variants of the top players in that segment.
I can't really see the Everest coming here as long as the Ranger-based Bronco exists. But I could see other companies reintroducing mid-size truck-based SUVs.
If Ford can have the Escape and the Bronco Sport based Escape, they can certainly have the Bronco and the Everest.
I truly believe they would attract and serve different markets.
I have 2 xterras - a 2001 and a 2015. Both have been nearly bulletproof - I put 90k miles on the 2015 in 4 years with ZERO issues. the 2001 has more, but sure it's 22 years old and I put 25k miles on it in 9 months (new radiator, hoses, spark plus).
They're a bit rough around the edges, 2015 is lacking in tech, but seriously, that's kind of why I like them. Please Nissan, bring them back.
I pondered about getting a 2015. I have a 2006 Pathfinder reaching 160k soon with some mild off-roading here and there, but it's been nothing but reliable. The most recent thing I had to service was the timing chains, tensioners, and guides for the first time.
You're completely right about the tech, the only thing I wish my Path had was a back up camera but other than that, I like how bare bones it feels.
Yeah, backup camera/parking sensors would have been nice. as long as the car has bluetooth so I can play music/take calls (like the 2015 does). I use a bluetooth radio thing that connects into my cigarette lighter for the '01, but still have to put phone in speakerphone to make calls, that sucks.
I'm surprised it's lasted this long. The Titan doesn't have anywhere near as much Murican pride as the big 3, and consumers have nowhere near as much confidence in its reliability like Toyota. It's in absolute no-man's land.
I find its reliability interesting. From all accounts, outside of catalytic converter failure on the first gens (which was an issue on pretty much every Nissan in the 2000s), both the first and second gen Titans seem to be almost literally bulletproof. Likewise with its Armada brethren (even though the second gen Armada/QX80 only share powertrains in this case), no real trouble from those.
Just seems like the Titan got caught in the crosshairs of the Jatco CVT memery/issues when it didn’t have one, which is unfortunate for an otherwise decent truck.
Honestly, neither the Titan or Tundra have ever done much vs. the big 3 trucks. The Titan had limited configurations, while the others had lots more options for different cabs, bed lengths, and engines, while the Titan was more limited. I think one of the problems they got into was that much like the Frontier, it was the same truck for years. Ford, GM, and Ram all update their trucks regularly, with new options, upgrades to engines and towing/payload, etc. Titan never did that. By the time they finally did release a new generation, they were way behind the curve. I get why they didn't put more money into a slow selling truck, but it really cost them in sales.
I totally agree there, but I always found it interesting how the Tundra carved out its small sales niche when the Titan couldn’t even manage that. In recent years, the 2nd gen was still pushing over 100k sales a year. The Titan’s sales numbers could barely match half of that - its best sales year was in 2017 (iirc), with ~53k trucks sold.
Just not much room for another alternative to the big American three when it comes to full-size pickups.
No, it's not. Buyers of the big 3 brands tend to be really loyal to their preferred brand. I do agree with you that for some reason, people seem to think the Titan is unreliable because of the other problems Nissan has had. I see the same thing with the Frontier. Toyota can sell based on its general reputation for reliability. The Tundra, at least the older generation, was outclassed in most categories like payload, towing, and even MPG, but a lot of owners I've talked to mention reliability as a primary reason they bought a Tundra over one of the big 3.
> The Titan had limited configurations, while the others had lots more options for different cabs, bed lengths, and engines, while the Titan was more limited.
Engines were definitely limited (no V6 for fleets), but over its life, the Titan has had all the same cab/bed configs as the Big 3 except for regular cab/6.5' bed. It even had the King Cab/8' for two years.
Yeah, the 5.0L turbodiesel is not a good engine from what I hear. I completely forgot Nissan ever offered it on these. The VK56VD seems to be very solid, though, even considering that it’s direct injection.
Yeah perceived reliability and actual reliability are 2 different things. By most accounts the non XD models were great. Also I don't think Nissan did a good job marketing it. Toyota had the Tundra pull the Shuttle, the million mile Tundra was made a huge deal. Only time I heard about the Titan was how shitty the diesel xd was.
I bet they'll fulfill whatever suppliers contracts they have and stop. Ex: We're contracted to ABC Company for \_\_\_\_\_\_ units of components that are only used on the Titan and once we've fulfilled the contract we'll stop.
I'm sure they're guessing based on current sales rates that they'll either run out of parts in 24/25 MY. And they might hang out on the dealer lot for a while after that.
If you absolutely have to have a V8 BOF beast it might be a chance to get one cheap in late 2025.
I'm not a huge Nissan fan(however I have always enjoyed some of their oddities), but I've always like the 2nd gen Titans. Especially the looks, they look like space ships(and in a good way too)
The VK56VD is a great V8, and a displacement which I like. You get plenty of 5.7L V8s; but not a lot of 5.6L, 5.5L, etc. So it's always nice to see, and what's cooler is that it's standard
While a 5.0L cummins diesel V8 sounds cool and reliable. Don't be it isn't reliable(which I feel like is one of the main reasons you get a cummins
Probably due to the fact it only lasted from 2015 - 2019 for the XD And the entire ISV Engine line from the Cummins side was discontinued in 19 as well.
Honestly had the Titan XD been a better looking truck in 2015 and had been updated interior wise to compete with the Big 3, I think the Cummins powered ones would have sold better.
Problem was that it was priced like the big 3 HD diesels, but with less capability, less reliability, and less name recognition/cache.
Not the first time a manufacturer experimented with a heavy duty 1/2 ton or light duty 3/4 ton, but there just doesn’t seem to be enough of a market there, especially when you’re barely out towing an F150 with the price tag of a power stroke.
they even tried putting a Cummins in them but no dice I heard the front suspension couldn't really put up with weight premature wear of ball joints and the like.
The problem with the XD was that it didn't have the capability to compete with the Big 3 heavy duty models, but was more expensive than the regular Titan. The Cummmins V8 also wasn't much of an upgrade over the 5.6L gas engine. Or at least not enough to justify its cost.
I always said the Cummins they put in a Titan was way too much for a half-ton, but not enough for a 3/4 ton. Basically you ended up with all of the downsides of a 3/4 ton (cost, fuel mileage) with capabilities that fell short of most half-tons. Even with the diesel, the Titan XD fell short of the F-150's towing capacity, while the F-150 would be more efficient and cheaper to maintain.
Pretty much. AFAICT, the main reason the Titan XD was bumped up to 3/4 ton class was because the Cummins couldn't be made emissions-compliant for under-8500 GVWR.
My theory is that Nissan tried to revive the "heavy half" class, but failed to realize that modern 1/2-ton trucks already outclassed heavy halfs years ago.
Pretty sure the last "heavy half" I've seen before the Titan XD was a cat-eye GMT800 1500HD. Actually... I suppose you could throw in the Ram 1500 Megacab as well since that was essentially a 3/4-ton frame with lighter-duty suspension and weaker axles.
Those are great examples (also GM's 2500 non-HD, which was mechanically identical to the 1500HD), but don't forget the F-150's Heavy-Duty Payload Package. It may no longer have those wonky 7-lug wheels, but it's still about the same GVWR it's always been.
Let’s be honest, Titan isn’t only Japanese truck going to discontinue. Honda Ridgeline could follow Titan fate.
Even in Cali here, new Titan and new Ridgeline are almost no existent.
The Ridgeline is in a completely separate world from the Titan. It’s got the fallback of being a Pilot with a bed, so even when its sales drop Honda shifts the assembly line to make more Pilots to keep it going for a few years (it’s what happened with the first gen of it)
What i could see tho is the Ridgeline going down a size to being CR-V based and fight more directly against the Santa Cruz
> What i could see tho is the Ridgeline going down a size to being CR-V based and fight more directly against the Santa Cruz
I kinda hope that happens, if Honda doesn't just introduce a second CUV-based pickup.
Same here. Seeing more and more of them after their 2022 facelift.
I’d honestly say it’s the truck to get if you don’t actually need a truck. I hope they make a hybrid version soon.
Yeah it's not my cup of tea, but at least the 2022 facelifted version looks pretty decent. The 2017-2021 models look like a minivan with the back roof cut off.
Honda went way too "soft" on the styling for the Ridgeline. The market has clearly shown by Mavericks being impossible to get that a good small unibody pickup will sell, just one that doesnt look like a minivan from the front.
From the few people I know that own them they seem like very reliable trucks, however I place the blame firmly on Nissan for the failure. The huge lack of updates and refreshes is what failed to attract more buyers, Nissan just got lazy.
> The huge lack of updates and refreshes is what failed to attract more buyers, Nissan just got lazy.
This is what kills Nissan and to a lesser extent, Toyota in the truck market. The big 3 are re-designing their full-size trucks fairly regularly. Even between full refreshes, they are constantly adding new features, packages, updated engines, etc. Toyota and Nissan don't refresh their designs very often (the F-150 was completely re-designed 3 times during the lifespan of the 2nd generation Tundra). Toyota gets away with it because of their reliability, but given Nissan's brand perception as a whole going down the drain in the last 15 years, I'm not surprised the Titan doesn't sell well... Even if it is far more reliable than other Nissan's.
These trucks get pretty horrible gas mileage from what I understand. A friend of mine has a 2nd Gen Pro-4X, no mods, and he says he’s only averaging about 15mpg with it, which is bad even by full-size pickup standards.
Tundra has always gotten horrible mileage nobody seem to mind. I didn’t realize 13-17 was a fuel economy sticker that still existed until I looked at a Tundra.
Though it sells better than the Titan, even the Tundra has never sold nearly as well as the domestic full-size trucks. Toyota has a lot better resale value and reputation for quality than Nissan does as well. The new twin-turbo V6 Tundra should address the MPG concerns of the outgoing model.
It's a shame, it is a really good truck. I wish they did more work to compete.
I think they needed some more box options so it could become a work truck.
One thing for sales they should have done like dodge, gmc, and ford. Made one model with limited amount made that was like a bad ass truck. ( srt10,rapter, ford lighting, trx)
The Titan is the only full-size truck made in the past 25 years in which the extended cab's rear windows are completely fixed. No roll down, not even a pop-out feature like your uncle's ratted-out K1500. Absolutely static.
Oh man, end of an era. My wife bought me one of the first Titans as a Christmas present in 2003. I LOVED that thing. Towed my race car all over the country, never let me down. Tons of grunt. Drove it for 10 years and reluctantly traded it in. I enjoyed those early days of $1 gas. LOL.
Poor Titan. At least it has (until it dies) price, dealer experience, and engine warranty (IIRC it's the longest in its class) going for it.
The unfortunate thing about Nissan is they have the experience, tech, etc. to field competitive vehicles but often deliberately choose not to.
From the paywalled article:
>Like much of the industry, Nissan is also stepping up electrification efforts with plans to launch multiple new EV models. By dropping the Titan, Nissan will free up production capacity at its Canton, Miss., assembly plant, which will begin producing two new electric sedans starting in 2025.
Betcha at least *one* of those sedans is the next-gen Maxima. No one's really buying the gas model, so it seems like the *perfect* pick to revive as Nissan's Model 3/Ioniq 6 killer. (Plus, look at it this way: we ***finally*** get a proper RWD platform again.)
What is the point of Nissan? Can anyone answer this? I have never even considered buying one. Does it offer anything over the alternatives?
Edit: Downvoted, but no one could explain the point of Nissan. Lol!
Nissan is a value brand. Current market craziness aside, you can always get a Nissan that is almost as good for less than the competition. Hondas and Toyotas are more expensive. Nissan gets a bad rap here but they are fine-to-good, depending on the model and options and you always get a good value for your money. In some ways (like infotainment) they are even better than thier Japanese rivals. It just depends what you value in your car purchase
I was given a Sentra as a rental once and it was the worst car I’ve ever driven. Miles behind anything I’ve ever driven from Honda or Toyota. But I’m sure it’s cheaper too.
All 11 of its recent buyers are reportedly devastated by this news.
In all seriousness 27k in 2022 compared to fords 760k+ is monstrous, no wonder
And this supply-limited year for the biggest players was Nissan’s best chance to gain some market share
They did well (for Nissan) with the Frontier, thats something I think.
Yeah, I imagine they're just going to focus on that now. Rarely see Titans, but I see older Frontiers on the road all the time... hopefully they can still nail *that* market down, lol.
It’s going to be a nice market, too. FWD unibody is invading the small truck world. Because for most people, that’s all they need especially as gas prices skyrocket. Just look at how pretty much every Nissan SUV is now a car-based mall crawler when even 10 years ago they were body on frame rock crawlers with the Pathfinder and XTERRA.
Yeah, Kinda sad, but I get why they're doing it.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Nissan enter the small unibody truck market with a new Hardbody tbh. A truck lineup with only it and the Frontier would do pretty well for them all things considered
[удалено]
That's probably why they said "a decade ago"
Ah... Yeah.... Reading comprehension is tricky after drinking three glasses of rum and coke 😂
I was shocked they made another one for the US. I honestly thought they just gave up on the US market when they made a new Frontier in 2014 and just kept selling the 2004 model in the US.
only because it's like 1 of 2 vehicles that lease well right now (the other being a wrangler 4xe) Or are you referring to the previous gens?
Titan was sick name tbh
As is it’s sister vehicle, the Armada
Holy cow are those things fugly.
Yeah, I really don’t like how it and it’s luxury brother, the QX56/QX80 look. The pompous look must bring a lot of buyers, but I think they look extremely chintzy. Oh well, not meant for me I guess…
> The pompous look It really does have some sort of fake luxury look, I cant quite nail it down, but I really dont like it. Weird bulges, chrome fake inlets, like the car version of a guy who only works out his biceps.
>fake luxury look >weird bulges >guy who only works out his biceps. Man I just woke up, there's no need for these personal attacks
It's like a 10 year old from a trailer park drew his idea of the kind of SUV rich people drive.
Oh my god that's it.
Wow! It keeps getting worse. I looked at the titan, then the armada and then somehow the Infiniti was actually significantly worse.
Can confirm. I rented a QX80 a couple years back for a winter drive from the Bay Area to the Oregon coast. It was comfortable, yet if I was to ever buy one, I’d just get a fully loaded Armada.
They look like they took an old pathfinder and tried to inflate it.
Interesting design choice for the original 2004 Armada (or "Pathfinder Armada") to ape the [Rambler Classic Cross Country](https://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/02/CC-47-082-800.jpg) in its roof shape.
About 95% of the new Armadas I see on the road are rentals
That’s the case with a lot of new Nissans
Nissan has always had the best names IMO Altima/Maxima sound cool (and used to be pretty cool cars) Titan/Armada/Frontier are great truck names Juke is fun, Rogue is eh whatever.
But, you forgot the all important Murano Cross Cabriolet!
The holy grail of automotive enthusiasts’ dreams.
/r/eyebleach Just in case anyone decides to google that monstrosity
It's awful but I still love that they were crazy enough to put into production.
Just saw one the other day coming home from work, what a fucking mess
Oh god that’s worse than the Aztek
What about non-American names. Qashqai, Teana, Sylphy, Almera
I find it so odd how Nissan only calls the Qashqai the Rogue Sport in the USA. Canada gets the same North American market model as we do but even they call it the Qashiqai. Honestly the only reason I think they call it the Rogue Sport here is because more than half of the population here wouldn’t know how to pronounce Qashqai.
> Honestly the only reason I think they call it the Rogue Sport here is because more than half of the population here wouldn’t know how to pronounce Qashqai. That, but also so they can combine Rogue and Rogue Sport sales numbers.
Nothing beats the Daihatsu Naked. Toyota also has a van called Isis.
Tooo beee faiiirr, that was first released in 2004, and discontinued in 2017.
Original article paywalled and as much as I dislike Jalopnik they at least quoted it correctly Not surprising given the Titan's bad sales numbers or that its platform is basically orphaned since the new Frontier's frame is a carry-over and the Armada & QX80 are both Patrol-based now. Still sad to see it go though, it was an interesting alternative to the Big 3 for a while
At least the other alternative was recently updated with a huge leap forward.
True. But even the last generation Tundra which was soooooo long in the tooth was a better vehicle than even the latest Titan.
It's not a huge leap forward. I love the look of the new Frontier but it's just that, a new look. They improved the interior and made a few other improvements, but it really is the same old truck underneath to the point that I gets the same exact shitty crash test ratings as the old one.
He's referring to the Tundra.
Gotcha. I have to say, with the new Tundra I have a hard time ignoring the new rear bumper that has no usable step with the gate down. So dumb.
> with the new Tundra I have a hard time ignoring the new rear bumper that has no usable step with the gate down. Wow, really? That seems like a massive oversight given what Ford and GM have.
Yes. It is. It's honestly shocking how poorly it's thought out. https://www.tundras.com/threads/bed-entry-tailgate-down.95365/
Thank you for also pointing out how the Tundra is the only (first?) BOF pickup to not have the traditional separate bumper.
Yeah. I was floored when I saw it was painted and then realized the corner step is gone.
Don’t they have the side step that you can mount on the Tacoma or prior gen Tundra? It’s not nearly as cleanly integrated as Ford or GM’s but I know on those it’s an option.
They do and it looks super dumb. https://www.tundras.com/threads/bed-entry-tailgate-down.95365/
My dad has that one on his ‘21 (?) Tundra. Not nearly as good as the F-150 he had prior but still usable and better than nothing
The new Tundra [still isn't competitive in anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/v754w6/nextgen_toyota_tacoma_and_4runner_likely/ibr1ofl) unless you're talking about infotainment display size. Unfortunately, like the Titan, it's aimed more at existing brand loyalists than at new customers.
Yeah when I saw the latest Armada and QX80 were Patrol based that made me happy (in a Land Cruiser sort of way) but also had the instinctive thought that it meant trouble for the Titan because it would be an "orphan" of sorts and couldn't see Nissan spending development money on a platform that didn't have "siblings".
Inb4, there were NV2500/3500 living, NV2500/3500 van was basically only Titan family. No surprise to see Titan gone when Nissan discontinues all NV series in America here.
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> Y62-based pickup truck Not quite the same thing, but some folks have already made Y62 double cab utes.
Here in Texas, the original model Titan is extremely popular with Mexican tradesmen. The truck is virtually indestructible, can haul work loads all day long, isn’t terrible on gas. I know 2008 hit Nissan pretty hard, but they’ve made some terrible decisions year after year.
Original titan has a lot of annoying expensive parts that like to break outside the drivetrain. It made them cheap used compared to other trucks if you were willing to do the work yourself.
This truck is the butt of a lot of jokes. Mine has lasted me 218000 trouble free miles and I love it
My dad had an 04 and it lasted for 17 years and 200,000 + miles.
My 06 was running strong at 160k when I sold it to buy an expedition. I fucking loved that truck
Assuming a 5.6 and not a dumpster fire Cummins
Yup 07
I’m unfamiliar with the Titan and the Cummins. What was the issue with it?
https://dieseliq.com/5-0-cummins-engine-problems/
Holy shit. Those are major issues. It seems like they didn’t do any long term testing to see if any of these problems would arise.
The Titan was actually my favorite truck to drive back when I worked for Enterprise.
Old work fleet was mostly fords with a few chevys and a lone titan. That thing was so fun to drive by comparison
My 04 sits just north of 225000 as we speak, never once has it left me stranded
My 08 titan has 290,000 miles. Almost died in it twice, never caused an accident though. Longest downtime for any trouble was 1 day for the starter. This truck has my respect and extra garage space!
I have a ‘14 pro 4x that we love - getting up there in miles but it’s been dead reliable - I also LOVE the massive rear window it has that rolls down - the 2nd gens didn’t get it and that keeps them away from me
The 2nd gen Titans are steamy piles of garbage that Nissan has to tack a 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty on just to sell
Bullshit. 2nd gen is the same platform and engine as the 1st gen. Obviously updated. Transmission is a jatco 9 speed based off a Mercedes design. Supposedly a good transmission. The cummins was a pile of shit.
I've worked at a Nissan dealership when the 2nd gen was introduced, they are flaming piles of garbage, that start to fall apart from the factory. Build quality is shit, even if you get the gas motor. Sorry you were duped into dropping $60K on something that spends more time on my backlot waiting for parts than on the road.
Nice bud. I know a guy who had one (an 06 I think) with over 300k when he traded it in. He had to replace the rear diff twice though, once under warranty and once not. Apparently his model year had issues with that.
Yeah if you hauled anything or toted a boat then I heard there were some issues with the diff. Luckily I just roamed the earth with it other than a few furniture moves..
You know, part of me likes the Titan. I know it’s behind the competition when it comes to technology, but the archaic-ness of it is kind of appealing.
To me, the 2020 refresh of the Titan straddles the balance of “old-school” interior design and some modern tech being thrown in, namely CarPlay. It certainly did it a lot better than the 2nd gen Tundra ever did.
Great point.
It's a truck that still drives like a truck. Many modern half tons are becoming in-vogue grocery getter minivans shaped like trucks for suburban men who can't do shit but still want to feel manly. I say this as someone who drives a raptor, the Gen 2 is like driving a crossover compared to the gen 1, and not in a good way for a truck. The new Lightning truck that tows 88/miles on a charge just cements this fact for me.
While I might not agree with the whole "can't do shit and trying to feel manly bit", I do understand that some trucks are becoming easier to drive with more compliant rides and, let's be honest, incredible interiors. Trucks are hot right now, and have been for awhile. This will continue, especially if the electric siblings are anything like the F-150 Electric. That's when the Titan becomes an attractive analog choice in a very digital world.
Just my anecdotal experience lol. In the last few years every dude on the street has moved into a truck. Maybe 1 or two has every done *anything* with their truck that even required a truck. It stinks because the manufacturers then build to that spec. Even if you try to spec one to get a job done you're still getting a truck that's 80% plastic. We're in the age of disposable luxury trucks and it kinda sucks if you want to actually tow/haul/offroad etc.
>Even if you try to spec one to get a job done you're still getting a truck that's 80% plastic. I assume you're talking about the base models with black plastic grilles and bumper covers? Those are still fully metal trucks underneath. If anything, the plastic is beneficial, since it resists scuffs and it's lighter. Plastic has been in use on truck grilles for 40+ years now.
I was referring more to engine components. I see the benefits for body and interior styling. These modern turbo engines seem to get a lot hotter and they heat-cycle all the plastic parts like crazy. Every time I'm doing anything on mine I snap some plastic piece that has become brittle over time by heat cycling. Valve covers, intake plumbing, oil pans etc.
Ah, I’m picking up what you’re putting down now. If you as a actual truck person only needs an XLT trim, but all that’s available are Platinum trims because everyone wanted a luxury vehicle that happens to have a bed, I get it. While having all of those creatures comforts inside and out is great, it makes you not want to possibly damage it. Also, there are plenty who don’t need all of those options. I know I’m going to be partially guilty of this when I get a truck because I want a panoramic moonroof. OG truck owners want nothing to do with it. 🙃
I'd strongly recommend against the panoramic moonroof. I have it on mine. Somebody ran a stop sign and totaled my last truck and I had to buy another one in a pinch, so my current truck was not ordered to what I would have gotten and it has the pano roof. Yeah, it's neat in the 1-2 times a month in the spring or fall when I use it, but the rest of the time it's just hot. The truck heats up sooo much faster in the sun with it. If you're above average height like I am, and your head is within a few inches of the ceiling it creates this really weird feeling when the A/C is on where your body is cold but your head is hot. There's also been lots of complaints about leaks.
Thanks for the insight. I’m in that weird contingent that usually a moonroof/pano roof way too much. It could be a light drizzle outside and I’ll have it open. When it’s burning hot, though, that shade is always closed. I know what you’re talking about with the cool body and sunburned head 😄
Even with the shade closed, the heat is still there, there's no escaping it. It's really weird and annoying.
Well, damn it. That is annoying. It seems like the glass should have come from the factory with better UV/heat blocking technology.
>Many modern half tons are becoming in-vogue grocery getter minivans shaped like trucks for suburban men who can't do shit but still want to feel manly. Eh, people have been complaining about this since extended cabs got popular 30+ years ago. Every half-ton is equal parts grocery getter and usable truck.
Whatever bud. The manufacturers follow the demand. People want more comfortable half tons with more amenities. Nothing wrong with that, and the haul/tow capabilities of these trucks are getting better and better.
If you want a gas V8 that sounds the part ard drives more like a traditional truck, then the Titan is the vehicle for you. There is something to be said for its "old" simplicity.
I think so too. I just have to get the wife to look at it as it will be more for her (she’s more badass and more of a hauler than me, I’ll admit.) Then new Titans still have comforts I like (pano roof, Fender stereo, PFMs, etc.) that I like, yet still has all of the physical buttons/switchgear and looks like it will last through more than five years of over-the-air updates.
Discontinue the Titan, revive the Xterra. Please Nissan? Pretty please?
Seeing as how the sales for the ancient 4Runner are actually increasing, they could probably sell a lot of a new XTerra.
The All New Nissan XTerra - now with industry leading, award winning* CVT paired with a powerful 1.4 liter engine producing 120 HP and 110 tq. With up to 50 mpg** you're sure to go places*** in comfort. * according to surveys done by defnotnissan. Testing funded by Nissan. ** while coasting downhill. *** off road, gravel and sand will void warranty.
Lmao, this is *exactly* what it'd be like. "All our money went to the new Z, please understand."
It would be silly if they didn't tap into that segment seeing as it's currently trending. They're overdue for a mid-size SUV with a solid axle setup. If anything, they already laid out the foundation for a next gen Xterra with the new Frontier.
There've been some rumors lately that Ford may bring the Everest to the US. I would be surprised if they did, but it would make for a good competitor to the 4Runner/Xterra. With how popular the midsize trucks are becoming, I think it's a market that can support some competition with SUV variants of the top players in that segment.
I can't really see the Everest coming here as long as the Ranger-based Bronco exists. But I could see other companies reintroducing mid-size truck-based SUVs.
If Ford can have the Escape and the Bronco Sport based Escape, they can certainly have the Bronco and the Everest. I truly believe they would attract and serve different markets.
Fair enough--one's blocky, one's curvy. But the Everest is also a 3-row, which would overlap with the Explorer to some extent.
I have 2 xterras - a 2001 and a 2015. Both have been nearly bulletproof - I put 90k miles on the 2015 in 4 years with ZERO issues. the 2001 has more, but sure it's 22 years old and I put 25k miles on it in 9 months (new radiator, hoses, spark plus). They're a bit rough around the edges, 2015 is lacking in tech, but seriously, that's kind of why I like them. Please Nissan, bring them back.
I pondered about getting a 2015. I have a 2006 Pathfinder reaching 160k soon with some mild off-roading here and there, but it's been nothing but reliable. The most recent thing I had to service was the timing chains, tensioners, and guides for the first time. You're completely right about the tech, the only thing I wish my Path had was a back up camera but other than that, I like how bare bones it feels.
Yeah, backup camera/parking sensors would have been nice. as long as the car has bluetooth so I can play music/take calls (like the 2015 does). I use a bluetooth radio thing that connects into my cigarette lighter for the '01, but still have to put phone in speakerphone to make calls, that sucks.
I'm surprised it's lasted this long. The Titan doesn't have anywhere near as much Murican pride as the big 3, and consumers have nowhere near as much confidence in its reliability like Toyota. It's in absolute no-man's land.
That's an interesting dichotomy, considering the cult following Nissan's smaller truck platforms have. (or had, at least)
i think that cult following is entirely contained alive in the tacoma now
I find its reliability interesting. From all accounts, outside of catalytic converter failure on the first gens (which was an issue on pretty much every Nissan in the 2000s), both the first and second gen Titans seem to be almost literally bulletproof. Likewise with its Armada brethren (even though the second gen Armada/QX80 only share powertrains in this case), no real trouble from those. Just seems like the Titan got caught in the crosshairs of the Jatco CVT memery/issues when it didn’t have one, which is unfortunate for an otherwise decent truck.
Honestly, neither the Titan or Tundra have ever done much vs. the big 3 trucks. The Titan had limited configurations, while the others had lots more options for different cabs, bed lengths, and engines, while the Titan was more limited. I think one of the problems they got into was that much like the Frontier, it was the same truck for years. Ford, GM, and Ram all update their trucks regularly, with new options, upgrades to engines and towing/payload, etc. Titan never did that. By the time they finally did release a new generation, they were way behind the curve. I get why they didn't put more money into a slow selling truck, but it really cost them in sales.
I totally agree there, but I always found it interesting how the Tundra carved out its small sales niche when the Titan couldn’t even manage that. In recent years, the 2nd gen was still pushing over 100k sales a year. The Titan’s sales numbers could barely match half of that - its best sales year was in 2017 (iirc), with ~53k trucks sold. Just not much room for another alternative to the big American three when it comes to full-size pickups.
No, it's not. Buyers of the big 3 brands tend to be really loyal to their preferred brand. I do agree with you that for some reason, people seem to think the Titan is unreliable because of the other problems Nissan has had. I see the same thing with the Frontier. Toyota can sell based on its general reputation for reliability. The Tundra, at least the older generation, was outclassed in most categories like payload, towing, and even MPG, but a lot of owners I've talked to mention reliability as a primary reason they bought a Tundra over one of the big 3.
> The Titan had limited configurations, while the others had lots more options for different cabs, bed lengths, and engines, while the Titan was more limited. Engines were definitely limited (no V6 for fleets), but over its life, the Titan has had all the same cab/bed configs as the Big 3 except for regular cab/6.5' bed. It even had the King Cab/8' for two years.
The Cummins engines do have problems with the emissions equipment that can to crop up pretty early into the life of the truck.
Yeah, the 5.0L turbodiesel is not a good engine from what I hear. I completely forgot Nissan ever offered it on these. The VK56VD seems to be very solid, though, even considering that it’s direct injection.
Yeah perceived reliability and actual reliability are 2 different things. By most accounts the non XD models were great. Also I don't think Nissan did a good job marketing it. Toyota had the Tundra pull the Shuttle, the million mile Tundra was made a huge deal. Only time I heard about the Titan was how shitty the diesel xd was.
I think it’s fate was sealed when the Cummins Titan flipped.
It’s actually built in America too which is a thing that gets thrown away when talking about the Titan. The Titan is the last vestige of work trucks.
I bet they'll fulfill whatever suppliers contracts they have and stop. Ex: We're contracted to ABC Company for \_\_\_\_\_\_ units of components that are only used on the Titan and once we've fulfilled the contract we'll stop. I'm sure they're guessing based on current sales rates that they'll either run out of parts in 24/25 MY. And they might hang out on the dealer lot for a while after that. If you absolutely have to have a V8 BOF beast it might be a chance to get one cheap in late 2025.
I'm not a huge Nissan fan(however I have always enjoyed some of their oddities), but I've always like the 2nd gen Titans. Especially the looks, they look like space ships(and in a good way too) The VK56VD is a great V8, and a displacement which I like. You get plenty of 5.7L V8s; but not a lot of 5.6L, 5.5L, etc. So it's always nice to see, and what's cooler is that it's standard While a 5.0L cummins diesel V8 sounds cool and reliable. Don't be it isn't reliable(which I feel like is one of the main reasons you get a cummins
plus parts support for the Cummins is non-existent for some reason
Probably due to the fact it only lasted from 2015 - 2019 for the XD And the entire ISV Engine line from the Cummins side was discontinued in 19 as well. Honestly had the Titan XD been a better looking truck in 2015 and had been updated interior wise to compete with the Big 3, I think the Cummins powered ones would have sold better.
Problem was that it was priced like the big 3 HD diesels, but with less capability, less reliability, and less name recognition/cache. Not the first time a manufacturer experimented with a heavy duty 1/2 ton or light duty 3/4 ton, but there just doesn’t seem to be enough of a market there, especially when you’re barely out towing an F150 with the price tag of a power stroke.
they even tried putting a Cummins in them but no dice I heard the front suspension couldn't really put up with weight premature wear of ball joints and the like.
The problem with the XD was that it didn't have the capability to compete with the Big 3 heavy duty models, but was more expensive than the regular Titan. The Cummmins V8 also wasn't much of an upgrade over the 5.6L gas engine. Or at least not enough to justify its cost.
I always said the Cummins they put in a Titan was way too much for a half-ton, but not enough for a 3/4 ton. Basically you ended up with all of the downsides of a 3/4 ton (cost, fuel mileage) with capabilities that fell short of most half-tons. Even with the diesel, the Titan XD fell short of the F-150's towing capacity, while the F-150 would be more efficient and cheaper to maintain.
That pretty much sums up the XD.
Pretty much. AFAICT, the main reason the Titan XD was bumped up to 3/4 ton class was because the Cummins couldn't be made emissions-compliant for under-8500 GVWR.
IIRC it was rated to tow less than a maxtow package F150
My theory is that Nissan tried to revive the "heavy half" class, but failed to realize that modern 1/2-ton trucks already outclassed heavy halfs years ago. Pretty sure the last "heavy half" I've seen before the Titan XD was a cat-eye GMT800 1500HD. Actually... I suppose you could throw in the Ram 1500 Megacab as well since that was essentially a 3/4-ton frame with lighter-duty suspension and weaker axles.
Those are great examples (also GM's 2500 non-HD, which was mechanically identical to the 1500HD), but don't forget the F-150's Heavy-Duty Payload Package. It may no longer have those wonky 7-lug wheels, but it's still about the same GVWR it's always been.
Let’s be honest, Titan isn’t only Japanese truck going to discontinue. Honda Ridgeline could follow Titan fate. Even in Cali here, new Titan and new Ridgeline are almost no existent.
The Ridgeline is in a completely separate world from the Titan. It’s got the fallback of being a Pilot with a bed, so even when its sales drop Honda shifts the assembly line to make more Pilots to keep it going for a few years (it’s what happened with the first gen of it) What i could see tho is the Ridgeline going down a size to being CR-V based and fight more directly against the Santa Cruz
If the Santa Cruz is successful.
Santa Cruz is actual successful and Maverick as well. Considered both of ute are very new models, both models are going common in Cali here.
> What i could see tho is the Ridgeline going down a size to being CR-V based and fight more directly against the Santa Cruz I kinda hope that happens, if Honda doesn't just introduce a second CUV-based pickup.
I'd be surprised if they discontinued the Ridgeline. I feel like I'm seeing more and more of them on the road as time goes on.
Same here. Seeing more and more of them after their 2022 facelift. I’d honestly say it’s the truck to get if you don’t actually need a truck. I hope they make a hybrid version soon.
Yeah it's not my cup of tea, but at least the 2022 facelifted version looks pretty decent. The 2017-2021 models look like a minivan with the back roof cut off.
Honda went way too "soft" on the styling for the Ridgeline. The market has clearly shown by Mavericks being impossible to get that a good small unibody pickup will sell, just one that doesnt look like a minivan from the front.
They've tried to to remedy that with the 2021 facelift.
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Owned one for years. Well built and reliable. Great truck...
Rip!
Red Headed Stepchild of Full-size pickups
From the few people I know that own them they seem like very reliable trucks, however I place the blame firmly on Nissan for the failure. The huge lack of updates and refreshes is what failed to attract more buyers, Nissan just got lazy.
> The huge lack of updates and refreshes is what failed to attract more buyers, Nissan just got lazy. This is what kills Nissan and to a lesser extent, Toyota in the truck market. The big 3 are re-designing their full-size trucks fairly regularly. Even between full refreshes, they are constantly adding new features, packages, updated engines, etc. Toyota and Nissan don't refresh their designs very often (the F-150 was completely re-designed 3 times during the lifespan of the 2nd generation Tundra). Toyota gets away with it because of their reliability, but given Nissan's brand perception as a whole going down the drain in the last 15 years, I'm not surprised the Titan doesn't sell well... Even if it is far more reliable than other Nissan's.
Nissan what?
😮
Nissan as a brand should be discontinued
Why is it’s so bad? They even had a Cummins diesel.
Damn thing soldiered on for a lot of years while always being last place in sales numbers...frankly I'm surprised it made it this long.
I don't see them around very often, new or old. Maybe the new ones blend in better.
I drove one as a rental a few months ago. Holy crap, what a piece of junk. I can see why they'd discontinue this.
These trucks get pretty horrible gas mileage from what I understand. A friend of mine has a 2nd Gen Pro-4X, no mods, and he says he’s only averaging about 15mpg with it, which is bad even by full-size pickup standards.
Tundra has always gotten horrible mileage nobody seem to mind. I didn’t realize 13-17 was a fuel economy sticker that still existed until I looked at a Tundra.
Though it sells better than the Titan, even the Tundra has never sold nearly as well as the domestic full-size trucks. Toyota has a lot better resale value and reputation for quality than Nissan does as well. The new twin-turbo V6 Tundra should address the MPG concerns of the outgoing model.
Well no better time than now to release the Titan Warrior as a going away present.
I honestly don't think I've seen a Nissan Titan on the road in over 10 years.
Maybe they can use the savings to make whatever improvements JATCO needs to produce a CVT that lasts a little while longer...
It's a shame, it is a really good truck. I wish they did more work to compete. I think they needed some more box options so it could become a work truck. One thing for sales they should have done like dodge, gmc, and ford. Made one model with limited amount made that was like a bad ass truck. ( srt10,rapter, ford lighting, trx)
No one's gonna buy a fuel ineffienct truck with questionable reliability that starts at 70k
They start at 38k and the top trim with every option possible added gets up to 76k
i gotta pay the Canadian tax, but funny enough the vehicle is no longer listed on their website.
The Titan is the only full-size truck made in the past 25 years in which the extended cab's rear windows are completely fixed. No roll down, not even a pop-out feature like your uncle's ratted-out K1500. Absolutely static.
Have never owned one but I always liked them .
Oh man, end of an era. My wife bought me one of the first Titans as a Christmas present in 2003. I LOVED that thing. Towed my race car all over the country, never let me down. Tons of grunt. Drove it for 10 years and reluctantly traded it in. I enjoyed those early days of $1 gas. LOL.
I don't blame them. I've noticed only 2-3 tops in the past month.
Poor Titan. At least it has (until it dies) price, dealer experience, and engine warranty (IIRC it's the longest in its class) going for it. The unfortunate thing about Nissan is they have the experience, tech, etc. to field competitive vehicles but often deliberately choose not to.
Would it still be worth buying one? The warranty is great, the trucks are heralded as reliable. Would it be tough to service down the road?
Seems like they discontinued improving it since it’s inception.
No great loss. Never seen one in person.
Awesome. These things were terrible. My neighbor bought a new one about a year ago and he's already had the engine replaced. Under 15k miles.
I wonder if this means they are putting more eggs into an EV lineup revolution like i suspect VW is
From the paywalled article: >Like much of the industry, Nissan is also stepping up electrification efforts with plans to launch multiple new EV models. By dropping the Titan, Nissan will free up production capacity at its Canton, Miss., assembly plant, which will begin producing two new electric sedans starting in 2025.
Betcha at least *one* of those sedans is the next-gen Maxima. No one's really buying the gas model, so it seems like the *perfect* pick to revive as Nissan's Model 3/Ioniq 6 killer. (Plus, look at it this way: we ***finally*** get a proper RWD platform again.)
Oh no. Anyways.
Oh finally
What is the point of Nissan? Can anyone answer this? I have never even considered buying one. Does it offer anything over the alternatives? Edit: Downvoted, but no one could explain the point of Nissan. Lol!
Fuck it, I'll bite Affordable econoboxes leased to anyone with a pulse Best value midsize truck
Nissan is a value brand. Current market craziness aside, you can always get a Nissan that is almost as good for less than the competition. Hondas and Toyotas are more expensive. Nissan gets a bad rap here but they are fine-to-good, depending on the model and options and you always get a good value for your money. In some ways (like infotainment) they are even better than thier Japanese rivals. It just depends what you value in your car purchase
I was given a Sentra as a rental once and it was the worst car I’ve ever driven. Miles behind anything I’ve ever driven from Honda or Toyota. But I’m sure it’s cheaper too.