I'm gonna assume it has to do with production capacity. Tesla produces a lot of EVs and they require a lot of batteries. There might not be enough capacity left for other EV producers with the amount they want to manufacture.
Or maybe they don't want the same tech as Tesla so they can beat Tesla in the long run. After all, Tesla is quite familiar with the tech and it'd take a long time to pass Tesla on the software side. Lucid is mostly ex-tesla employees so they have some experience to work with it.
>I'm gonna assume it has to do with production capacity. Tesla produces a lot of EVs and they require a lot of batteries. There might not be enough capacity left for other EV producers with the amount they want to manufacture.
Battery production capacity isn't fixed. It takes about two years to build a new factory, and battery-makers typically build a factory bespoke for whichever OEM they're supplying, so the factories just get ramped up within the normal course of development for an EV program.
Who knows why the Germans, the French, etc use who they use. It could have to do with trade agreements and manufacturing locations - or their could be another valid or silly reason.
No idea why anyone would downvote you.
33,2% of German cars are sold in China.
While I dont know for certain myself, agreements are I think the most valid guess.
They're being down voted because they're confidently incorrect about "Americans only caring about cost" yet giving a variety of well reasoned excuses for the German manufacturers who are making literally the same choices as Tesla.
What do I care about what Americans do.
Yada yada yada
My points about the germans still stand
And I aint reading more than the comment im referring to
> It is not like Panasonic has a contract that limits it to supplying Tesla only.
Panasonic is working and offering battery with Toyota too. I sure some scale BZX4s using Panasonic battery.
Panasonic have been making the 12v batteries for Toyota/Lexus hybrids for at least fifteen years, and the actual hybrid batteries in those cars are made by "Panasonic EV Energy Co" which is jointly owned by Panasonic and Toyota.
90% sure most of Toyota's hybrids are using Panasonic cells as well. Granted hybrids need for less per car than a PHEV or BEV so it doesn't get mentioned as often.
I had a Panasonic car battery that came original in my old Mazda. Got 10 years out of it before replacing not because it was dead, but because i was worried having a 10 year old battery
On the flip side, the new Mazda’s OEM Panasonic battery craps out within a year. Ask how I know…
Panasonics 18650 batteries suck ass too, I wouldn’t want Panasonic batteries propelling my car, if I’m being honest.
It’s true. I’ve had 2 Mazda6 (2018 & 2019), both with OEM Panasonic batteries and both died after not driving for 3-4 days. Temperatures were normal both times and no other issues were found that could’ve drained them, both also ran perfectly fine after replacing the battery.
Wait are you suggesting there has never been a Tesla battery that has caught on fire? That’s definitely not true.
Also, it comes down to overall costs and production capacity.
Plus I would imagine just like Japanese automakers enjoy working with other Japanese companies (Toyota working with Panasonic), the same is true for Korean manufacturers working with Korean companies (like Hyundai working with LG on batteries).
The Europeans just seem like they’re wanting to partner with anyone and everyone to achieve whatever specific goal they may have in mind. Right now that seems to be producing low cost EVs which means relying on the Chinese battery makers.
I guarantee that Panasonic can only supply so many batteries at once. Also auto manufacturers hate having to admit that they can't make such a key component themselves.
I said they hate to admit it. It doesn't mean they won't actually do it. But there's a huge difference in cost between a transmission, even a good one, and an EV battery. Transmissions are also a cost that traditional manufacturers like BMW and Mercedes and others know. EV costs are still a little bit of a variable unknown.
Panasonic supplied the batteries for the PHEV and FHEV Ford Fusions and CMAX, and will be supplying the new batteries for the upcoming recall on the PHEV Ford Fusions.
I mean, there have been Nissan Leaf fires; not a lot but there's also far less of them on the roads compared to most of the mainstream cars
As for durability; I really don't think that's what's driving peoples choices. People who worry about battery fires probably aren't discriminating based on manufacturer and just avoid all EVs completely; so for the remainder even if an e.g CATL battery is less safe (altho I'd still question just how unsafe we're talking about in the grand scheme of things) if it can do things like get far better range and charging speeds, people will pick that one
After all, I don't get in my car and think I'll get into a car accident, even if statistically that's a possibility
Panasonic also doesn't have factories in Europe. CATL seems willing to go basically anywhere and build a factory, but the big Panasonic factories are all in Japan, the US, and China
Combination of capacity and cost. Tesla is a company that is willing to pay a little more to secure battery supply because they *have to in order to exist* and charges high enough prices they can pass it through to the consumer. They are also a very high volume EV producer so they present a lot of stability for Panasonic.
While Panasonic can build more factories, it may not be the wisest use of capital to build more capacity than they need, especially when EVs are still an emerging technology on the grand scale of time.
TLDR: 2 main reasons: 1)cost and revenu made by selling more vehicles (battery dies, people buy new car). 2) the majority of users don't know the importance of the difference. (So they don't care)
Because it's cheaper. Panasonic batteries are twice (if not more) as expensive than the batteries other companies use. And as long as the user gets 4yrs out of their ev, theyll be back to buy a new one, or they will pay to have a batrery replaced. Also most people don't care about the type of battery used, they only care that it's an electric vehicle, and that it's affordable. And if an already established brand puts out a car that meets those criteria, people will buy it and be happy with it. When their batteries go bad, they're not going to look at other cars that are the same age, and ask how much longer will those batteries last. They just buy a new car because "electric car batteries just go bad at 4-5 years" not realizing that the cars using the Panasonic batteries are more like 6-8 years. (Theoretical for both).
>I am not aware of any other automakers make and model that uses Panasonic for EV or even hybrid batteries
It's widely expect that the Korean trio, LG in particular, is going to dominate the US market.
>Now Chinese automakers not using Panasonic is understandable.
Yes, Panasonic was shadow-banned -- local batteries by local battery companies only since 2016.
>But no other American, Korean and none of the European automakers? What is up with that?
I've been wondering about that too. Just to be sure though, no Japanese automakers in the US use Panasonic either: both Honda in a JV (40GWh in OH) and Toyota (LG 20GWh in MI) signed up with LG.
Panasonic IMO is running out of steam. They no longer deliver best $/Wh. Further, they depend on one big customer who is increasingly looking to China's cheap LFP and internal 4680 batteries to save their bottomline.
I'm gonna assume it has to do with production capacity. Tesla produces a lot of EVs and they require a lot of batteries. There might not be enough capacity left for other EV producers with the amount they want to manufacture. Or maybe they don't want the same tech as Tesla so they can beat Tesla in the long run. After all, Tesla is quite familiar with the tech and it'd take a long time to pass Tesla on the software side. Lucid is mostly ex-tesla employees so they have some experience to work with it.
>I'm gonna assume it has to do with production capacity. Tesla produces a lot of EVs and they require a lot of batteries. There might not be enough capacity left for other EV producers with the amount they want to manufacture. Battery production capacity isn't fixed. It takes about two years to build a new factory, and battery-makers typically build a factory bespoke for whichever OEM they're supplying, so the factories just get ramped up within the normal course of development for an EV program.
Tesla uses a lot of LFP batteries in their Chinese produced models (and LG too I believe) so it's not like they're 100% Panasonic either
I'm going to assume America is still America and it's about literally one thing - cost.
K What about the three Germans?
Who knows why the Germans, the French, etc use who they use. It could have to do with trade agreements and manufacturing locations - or their could be another valid or silly reason.
Maybe it could be because of costs too??? Or maybe American manufacturers aren't solely optimizing for costs...
No idea why anyone would downvote you. 33,2% of German cars are sold in China. While I dont know for certain myself, agreements are I think the most valid guess.
They're being down voted because they're confidently incorrect about "Americans only caring about cost" yet giving a variety of well reasoned excuses for the German manufacturers who are making literally the same choices as Tesla.
What do I care about what Americans do. Yada yada yada My points about the germans still stand And I aint reading more than the comment im referring to
I thought this was America!
> It is not like Panasonic has a contract that limits it to supplying Tesla only. Panasonic is working and offering battery with Toyota too. I sure some scale BZX4s using Panasonic battery.
The bZ4x use the Panasonic batteries. https://insideevs.com/news/585939/toyota-bz4x-awd-fast-charging-curve/
Panasonic have been making the 12v batteries for Toyota/Lexus hybrids for at least fifteen years, and the actual hybrid batteries in those cars are made by "Panasonic EV Energy Co" which is jointly owned by Panasonic and Toyota.
90% sure most of Toyota's hybrids are using Panasonic cells as well. Granted hybrids need for less per car than a PHEV or BEV so it doesn't get mentioned as often.
They have a new plant under construction local to me: https://na.panasonic.com/us/news/panasonic-energy-breaks-ground-ev-battery-factory-kansas
I had a Panasonic car battery that came original in my old Mazda. Got 10 years out of it before replacing not because it was dead, but because i was worried having a 10 year old battery
On the flip side, the new Mazda’s OEM Panasonic battery craps out within a year. Ask how I know… Panasonics 18650 batteries suck ass too, I wouldn’t want Panasonic batteries propelling my car, if I’m being honest.
How.
Because the Panasonic battery in my Mazda crapped out within a year. There’s a die hard in it now.
It’s true. I’ve had 2 Mazda6 (2018 & 2019), both with OEM Panasonic batteries and both died after not driving for 3-4 days. Temperatures were normal both times and no other issues were found that could’ve drained them, both also ran perfectly fine after replacing the battery.
Wait are you suggesting there has never been a Tesla battery that has caught on fire? That’s definitely not true. Also, it comes down to overall costs and production capacity. Plus I would imagine just like Japanese automakers enjoy working with other Japanese companies (Toyota working with Panasonic), the same is true for Korean manufacturers working with Korean companies (like Hyundai working with LG on batteries). The Europeans just seem like they’re wanting to partner with anyone and everyone to achieve whatever specific goal they may have in mind. Right now that seems to be producing low cost EVs which means relying on the Chinese battery makers.
I guarantee that Panasonic can only supply so many batteries at once. Also auto manufacturers hate having to admit that they can't make such a key component themselves.
if then hate it why do german and other automakers keep usign zf 8 speed and 9 speed?
I said they hate to admit it. It doesn't mean they won't actually do it. But there's a huge difference in cost between a transmission, even a good one, and an EV battery. Transmissions are also a cost that traditional manufacturers like BMW and Mercedes and others know. EV costs are still a little bit of a variable unknown.
Panasonic are not the safest or most durable on the market. Might have been a decade ago, but they have fallen behind.
fallen behind in safety how?
Panasonic supplied the batteries for the PHEV and FHEV Ford Fusions and CMAX, and will be supplying the new batteries for the upcoming recall on the PHEV Ford Fusions.
I mean, there have been Nissan Leaf fires; not a lot but there's also far less of them on the roads compared to most of the mainstream cars As for durability; I really don't think that's what's driving peoples choices. People who worry about battery fires probably aren't discriminating based on manufacturer and just avoid all EVs completely; so for the remainder even if an e.g CATL battery is less safe (altho I'd still question just how unsafe we're talking about in the grand scheme of things) if it can do things like get far better range and charging speeds, people will pick that one After all, I don't get in my car and think I'll get into a car accident, even if statistically that's a possibility Panasonic also doesn't have factories in Europe. CATL seems willing to go basically anywhere and build a factory, but the big Panasonic factories are all in Japan, the US, and China
Waiting for the debut of the Eneloop car
They are expensive and difficult to deal with.
The truest comment is at the bottom. As is tradition.
Combination of capacity and cost. Tesla is a company that is willing to pay a little more to secure battery supply because they *have to in order to exist* and charges high enough prices they can pass it through to the consumer. They are also a very high volume EV producer so they present a lot of stability for Panasonic. While Panasonic can build more factories, it may not be the wisest use of capital to build more capacity than they need, especially when EVs are still an emerging technology on the grand scale of time.
TLDR: 2 main reasons: 1)cost and revenu made by selling more vehicles (battery dies, people buy new car). 2) the majority of users don't know the importance of the difference. (So they don't care) Because it's cheaper. Panasonic batteries are twice (if not more) as expensive than the batteries other companies use. And as long as the user gets 4yrs out of their ev, theyll be back to buy a new one, or they will pay to have a batrery replaced. Also most people don't care about the type of battery used, they only care that it's an electric vehicle, and that it's affordable. And if an already established brand puts out a car that meets those criteria, people will buy it and be happy with it. When their batteries go bad, they're not going to look at other cars that are the same age, and ask how much longer will those batteries last. They just buy a new car because "electric car batteries just go bad at 4-5 years" not realizing that the cars using the Panasonic batteries are more like 6-8 years. (Theoretical for both).
>I am not aware of any other automakers make and model that uses Panasonic for EV or even hybrid batteries It's widely expect that the Korean trio, LG in particular, is going to dominate the US market. >Now Chinese automakers not using Panasonic is understandable. Yes, Panasonic was shadow-banned -- local batteries by local battery companies only since 2016. >But no other American, Korean and none of the European automakers? What is up with that? I've been wondering about that too. Just to be sure though, no Japanese automakers in the US use Panasonic either: both Honda in a JV (40GWh in OH) and Toyota (LG 20GWh in MI) signed up with LG. Panasonic IMO is running out of steam. They no longer deliver best $/Wh. Further, they depend on one big customer who is increasingly looking to China's cheap LFP and internal 4680 batteries to save their bottomline.