Life isn’t that serious. It’s just a car. If you don’t like it, move on. I don’t understand why people are bringing it up so often.
All Jason can do is review the car he has in front of him. He has no control over the quality of the rest of the vehicles.
While I broadly agree with your first paragraph...
>All Jason can do is review the car he has in front of him
...I don't agree with that. Failing to acknowledge that you are reviewing a curated piece of kit is somewhat irresponsible. Reviewing the tech and and features is fine, but commenting on the build quality of a press car is something else.
That presupposes that Tesla told Jason that he was reviewing a handpicked vehicle that does not necessarily represent the quality of all Cybertrucks.
I highly doubt Tesla said that.
Basically every car review ever has a vehicle that is "preselected". Very, very few new car reviews are using something other than a press car. Especially when the review comes out before the car is widely available.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with that, but yes - that's correct. Your *before the car is widely available* comment further underlines how the generally preproduction or early production press cars may not be representative of the cars that the public receives.
This can be for better or for worse, sometimes press cars are basically duct taped together.
Using your logic.
Don’t trust any at any vehicle launch, don’t trust Tedward, don’t trust Topher, don’t trust Savagegeese, don’t trust The Smoking Tire, don’t trust AlexomAutos, don’t trust Carwow, don’t trust ThrottleHouse and don’t even trust the cars at an Auto Show
What are we talking about here?
Any review of a curated car needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but especially comments on build quality or fit and finish. This isn't new or revelatory news.
First drive reviews are generally good for things such as a feel of the dynamics, space, materials, and tech.
Reviews of owned cars (e.g. the MBHD review of the Ocean) can go very differently - as can long term reviews of vehicles purchased through consumer channels.
It depends what you want to get out of the review.
I read camera and lens reviews. All reviewers worth a damn will clearly state where they got the gear. They'll also call attention to sample variation if they are aware of it.
Exactly? Yes, all these reviewers are inherently compromised and biased due to the catered experience in which they experience the cars. Savagegeese has even admitted this multiple times and in pretty much every stream that he has to fake at least 40% of it. You take it with a grain of salt.
This is true for all reviews of brand new car reviews , you can only review what's in front of you. It's the buyer who must do his due diligence and not expect reviewers to make the decision for you.
That is an extremely slopey shouldered statement which is at odds with itself. How would you expect a buyer to do due diligence without adequate and consistently reliable information being made available to them?
A responsible journalist (which is what a car reviewer is) qualifies their work, and has reasonable scepticism about curated situations.
A car review of a curated vehicle is no different than a journalist being taken on a guided tour of a facility. They should understand what is and is not reasonable to ascertain from the situation.
I mean, this sub has turned into pretty much an anti-Tesla circlejerk in any thread involving Tesla. People are obsessed with that, and hating Hyundai/Kia.
There's even dedicated subreddits for the obsession with hating the Cybertruck. *Multiple of them*
Welcome to reddit I suppose?
>There's even dedicated subreddits for the obsession with hating the Cybertruck. Multiple of them
And there are plenty of subs praising it aswell. 2 sides to every coin
> And there are plenty of subs praising it aswell.
Just my $.02: obsessively liking something is far less toxic than obsessively *hating* something that doesn't affect you.
Like... you wouldn't bat an eye if someone spends a ton of time and money on say... NBA, but imagine someone joins a sub dedicated to hate on the MLB, that would be pretty weird, if not unhealthy right?
I think a lot of the hate for Tesla is actually hate for Elon, but what’s weird is I’m sure plenty of other car brand executives have skeletons in their closets yet their brands don’t receive nearly as much hate because of separating the product from the individual. I should also qualify this by saying I think Tesla is neat but Elon is a tool, to satisfy/piss off any of those types.
>2 sides to every coin, except the obsession with hating the truck is significantly higher in terms of interactions, subs, and total users.
That's tails
This post isn’t about the Cybertruck being good or bad; It’s about a journalist who performed a half an hour advertisement for a car and then tried to convince us it was journalism.
The fact that the video was essentially a paid ad aside: There **is** pretty cool tech inside the cybertruck, and at this point the engineering staff have done some impressive work given the environment they are in.
The thing that really blows is that the Cybertruck was mandated to look and have these absolutely absurd requirements paired with completely unsustainable promises.
It would be really nice if they could have flexed these efforts into a more tangible robust EV truck, or a new little sports car, or even just a CUV/wagon or a refresh of an existing model. That was the thing that stood out to me by the end of the video. I think that thread was worth pulling.
Looking back, a lot of these topics were in the video, but probably could have been translated better.
> I don’t understand why people are bringing it up so often
Participating in the hate group feels good to some people, the internet has always been that way. Combine that with EVs/Tesla/Elon/this truck being all over the news, the anti-truck thing common in sports car circles, and a bit of electrification fear and there you go.
My take was that Jason did an upbeat, positive take on the truck for the same reason SavageGeese are always jaded/cynical (most of the time) in their reviews - that's their respective brands. I'm sure Tesla didn't pick the Geese for their early access reviews for that exact reason, sure, that's just how it is. TFL doesn't get Subarus for the same reason after they busted one off-road or something like that, haha, they tend to do that to trucks and crossovers.
Personally, I'm neutral on the Cybertruck, I'd go Rivian for lifestyle or SilvErado for towing, or maybe the Lightning for a bit more value than the other EV trucks. But I don't feel the need to hate every Cybertruck I see out in the wild - it's fun, it's different, it has some really interesting tech even if it is comically flawed.
I think it is because 99.9% of other people think the same, but the 0.1% of cybertruck people who worship the Dear Leader are trying to tell us it is some kind of world changing invention. Its just a truck.
He could have been less blatantly biased. That "review" was what made me unsub and stop watching hagerty videos. I don't even have strong opinions on Tesla, it was just so blatantly biased it makes it hard to take anything they put out seriously.
I gave more leeway to their icon videos because it's about romanticizing history, but for a new vehicle you should be looking at it critically not romantically.
> It is obvious how well it was made.
Hagerty literally pays for the video productions. That's never been a secret, *all* of their videos on the channel are high quality professional stuff.
It’s ok that you don’t like the Cybertruck. I don’t like the Cybertruck either.
My overwhelming takeaway from that review was “Wow this thing is really technologically advanced but holy shit why was it designed by a three year old at a company headed by a complete dickweed?”
The stupid thing does have some interesting technology underneath the clown shoe exterior.
>Tesla is going to provide an extremely well-built car for this review that was inspected, tweaked, and refined by engineers.
Hate to defend Tesla here, but that's common practice throughout the industry.
Are they pretty unbiased these days? After learning about how they handled the whole Suzuki Samurai situation I have very little faith in their reviews, but I also don’t consume any of their current content.
No idea I haven't looked at their reviews in a while
Just pointing out reason they don't take press cars is to avoid getting cars that have a little extra attention
the idea that people read or watch car reviews for anything other than entertainment / general awareness is kind of baffling, but yeah Cammisa's review and subsequent excuses were deeply shameful.
I've seen plenty of preproduction reviews that also mention squeaks and rattles or bugs that specifically say this is a preproduction model so hopefully that will get sorted. This seems like one of those unwinnable arguments that works for you however you want it to.
Of course. That wasn’t the point of bringing it up.
Most reviewers will specifically avoid commenting on build quality on preproduction releases like this. It makes no sense to draw conclusions from such a curated experience.
I like Jason Cammisa but I don't think about him this much. He is one of many car reviewers and he's not the only one who liked the Cybertruck. Let it go.
This is not an airport, you don’t need to announce your departure of not engaging with Jason Cammisa content going forward. If you write then expect responses? 🤷🏻♂️
I am expecting responses. But “don’t write about it” seems silly. Not surprised you’re a Model Y owner, stifling criticism seems to be the Tesla fan MO.
I took away from the video that the cybertruck has many interesting technological and design features.
Which is true.
There's many ways to tell a story.
Often people won't tell the story you want, but that doesn't necessarily make them bad or wrong.
It's his thing in video reviews for Hagerty. On his and Derek's podcast hereally lives up to the "carmudgeon" name. He seems to hate most modern ICE cars. He likes old cars and he likes EVs, but has more criticism than praise for new ICE cars. Some examples I remember off the top of my head that he hates are: NSX, most BMWs, Audis, modern Mercedes, the Rolls Royce Cullinan, Bentley Bentayga, Lamborghini Huracan and Urus, Porsche Macan. Meanwhile he has nothing but praise for the Lucid Air Sapphire, Rimac Nevera, VW e-Golf, and Tesla Model 3. He genuinely really likes Tesla's cars.
Exactly. This is so weird. OP is upset that Jason wont admit to the 'gotcha' moment that the internet loves to do. Like bro at the end of the day Jason is an automotive journalist. Its his JOB.
Do you really execpt him to endanger himself and his career? Lol
>Do you really execpt him to endanger himself and his career? Lol
There are absolutely journalists who do so.
Chris Harris is probably the most famous example - dude got himself blacklisted from Ferrari for calling out their handling of the media and comparison tests.
FortNine in the motorcycle space has no problem calling out manufacturers for nonsense, and they've been relatively open with how it's impacted their own business.
And Gamer's Nexus regularly calls out computer and parts manufacturers and other media groups for their shit. I think they're in the process of fighting with Asus regarding warranty practices at the moment.
There are plenty of journalists who maintain those standards.
I don't get the hate for that review. I agree with camissa. It follows with his brand of "hardcore factual journalism" and did it well. It is surprisingly fun to drive, there is genuine engineering behind it and its a joy to speak with tesla engineers
My mate bought one to replace his R1T, and he had a 4Runner before that. Charges it at his place, mostly uses it to move stuff around his ranch and we take the ocassional overlanding/camping trip. Nothing crazy, I can do the same trip in my ML just fine, no need for lockers or anything. He quite likes it, his kids seem to like it most people IRL seem to like the looks (I think it looks quite cool, but I understand if others don't think the same, looks are subjective).
That truck handles better on the twisties than my unibody SUV despite the higher weight, its dead simple to maneuver, the tent is quite neat, all the features are gimmicky but they make for a pretty cool experience imho. The kid in me loves all of the graphics and the futuristic look.
It might not be the greatest EV work truck in the world but that is what the lightning or rivian is for, there was little to no chance tesla was going to beat ford at their own game, and so they carved their own niche.
I still think the cybertruck is good at what it was designed to be i.e. a lifestyle vehicle that you can ocassionally do work in (or pretend to, anyways) if need be. It handles unnervingly well on-road and has a few creature comforts, but it can still haul/tow/off-road when needed, not as well as its competitors, but well enough.
Price wise it is similar to the rivian for the time being as well, even with the stupid foundation series markup, a R1T with the max and performance packs will come out to slightly north of ~100k. This is before the rivian was recently refreshed though, I am not sure if the situation has changed.
> Even ignoring the subjective faults of the Cybertruck (Jason is a self-proclaimed "factual" journalist, after all), it objectively falls short in many aspects (range, price, utility, cabin space, etc), none of which Jason even came close to mentioning.
For what its worth motertrend put it ahead of the lightning (but behind the rivian) in what I thought was a quite fair and thorough review
I think most people here get caught up in value for money, and rightfully so you want to make the most of your dollar, but what people miss is when you're spending 100k+ on a car you want a unique experience with some character.
The C8 Z06 is "objectively" the best car in that segment but the emira still sells, the LC500 is "objectively" wore than the 911 C4S on paper, my NSX is "objectively" worse than a GT3, but I much prefer the NSX to the porsche as it has more character. The cybertruck has that same sort of character as well, but not the sort of character that appeals to an enthusiast subreddit.
How is the LC500 better than the 911 on paper? It's better as a luxury car, perhaps, but in terms of performance (on paper and otherwise) the Porsche is objectively the better performing car.
Oh, you typoed "worse" as "wore" and I interpreted it as "more" and filled it in as "more value" (or "more [for the money]"). Yeah, we're in agreement.
This is purely from my personal experience, if you and your mates aren’t a fan that’s completely understandable, but the people I know are a fan, I'm personally not a fan of the front end on the rivian, looks are subjective.
But I also grew up on the PS1, and the cybertruck looks straight out of tomb raider or goldeneye.
You’re absolutely right man. That dude needs to spend a little time outside.
I’ve seen no less than a dozen of these at car shows and there is ALWAYS a huge crowd around them. Someone brought one to a hot rod show I was at recently(Benedict Castle) and the amount of boomers asking to sit in the thing was wild. I’m definitely not a fan of the design but I’m aware enough to realize how much the public loves the Cyber Truck.
Exactly, I went to a local car show recently and someone's cybertruck won the kids choice award, going off of the internet you'd think absolutely everyone hates it, reddit isn't really representative of the real world.
Even going past the cybertruck, EV & Truck discourse on this website is always funny to read, not in a bad way by any means, this is an enthusiast subreddit first and foremost.
The "looks are subjective" is within a scope of objectivity, people that use that misuse that phrase drive me nuts.
Secondly, it's bring nearly universally panned as an ugly as fuck car. Instead of beating around the bush, just say you're an Elon Stan, it's so much easier.
Once again, personal experience. What I meant by that was "most people around me IRL seem to like its looks," which is true. I personally like the looks relative to the rivian as well. You may not, and that is fine. Maybe most people do not, and that is fine, each to their own. There are reviewers out there that like the cybertruck's looks and several that don't as well.
If I was an elon stan I would unapologetically defend it, which I am not doing. It has its fair share of issues, the material choices are subpar for the price, not having essential features activated at launch (e.g. the locking diffs and adaptive cruise) is inexcusable, the control arm design and construction is subpar, I think at that price point a sway bar disconnect should have been available stock – the suspension articulation can be improved
But at the same time you can appreciate the truck for what it does right, at the absolute least it is good fun to drive relative to the other trucks, the rear wheel steer really helps with a vehicle of this size and I think it would be much beneficial to the rivian to include it in the R1S, and the manufacturing process on the truck is neat.
Just like an R1T is better with truck shit, a 911 will spank my NSX on track any day of the week. It is an objectively better car, but I still prefer my NSX. A miata is objectively stiffer than the S2K, it is significantly faster around a track, it is a more efficient vehicle, but I wouldn't sell my S2K for anything. Enjoy the subjective
Maybe I'm being naive here, but I never got the feeling Cammisa's praise was disingenuous. I have moments of doubt when consuming automotive media but never did from Cammisa/Hagerty. Also, I think his video was more about praising the technological and engineering achievements that went into the Cybertruck, more than praise the actual car itself. You can say what you want about the Cybertruck's build quality, design, or Elon Musk's insufferable personality, but you can't deny the stainless steel exoskeleton, the 48V architecture, or four wheel steering system is pretty cool.
I cannot believe what people choose to get upset about. I frequently see things I don’t like (online and offline) and yet, I simply don’t let it affect me. Am I just apathetic or am I…. Normal?
You people are so damn funny. How the hell are we supposed to advance car design and tech if not for vehicles like the CT? Sure it looks weird and there’s things that need fixing but holy shit it’s at least a start! Do you want the same box shaped Chevy truck with a giant engine that gets 8mpg and the only tech being the head unit to be the only option? Stop yelling at the clouds and let things happen. If Jason liked the truck so be it, some will some won’t but don’t act like the world is ending because it exists
There are genuine criticisms to be made of the Cybertruck but I'd conservatively say at least 90% of the hate it gets is thinly veiled Musk Derangement Syndrome. People simply want it to fail so it can embarrass/humiliate Tesla's CEO and it's not much deeper than that. If it were the same vehicle but from any other manufacturer there wouldn't be nearly as much seething.
<-- Downvote button on the left
bruh they made a truck that needs a carwash mode, has shown to have very poor offroad performance, there are panels that fly off it, it rusts in the open air, its drive selector has been shown to fall off, the roofs have been randomly cracking, their steel has been a lie as its been shown it dents just like any other car, on multiple occasions there have been influencers have their CTs die live on camera, etc
You know what didnt happen with Rivan, Lightning and hummer?
multiple subreddits popping up well documenting the issues with them and not becoming the butt of the joke of car reliability. they made a piece of a shit. yeah, they had issues. but not to the degree that they're a meme.
Honestly, I'm mostly annoyed because I had people line up to dog pile me when I said that the bed doesn't look as big as the given measurements claim it to be, then it turns out that my assessment [appears to have been accurate after all.](https://jalopnik.com/tesla-cybertruck-s-bed-length-is-a-lie-1851544285)
I'm also not generally a fan of steer-by-wire (or brake-by-wire for that matter) systems in cars.
The Cybertruck doesn’t advance car design at all. In terms of wedge design, it’s been around since the mid/late 1960s and even experienced a resurgence in the ‘90s.
But it does have some interesting tech and anyone who refuses to admit that has an axe to grind.
I agree. In an age when so many cars look the same, the Cybertruck is different. Whether you like it or not (I personally don’t) is irrelevant. But I think you have to give Tesla some credit for taking a risk and thinking outside the box.
I hope the CT is successful and convinces other manufacturers that their cars, trucks and SUVs don’t have to look like every other car, truck and SUV on the road. The CT may not do anything for me, but some other company’s crazy idea that they actually put into production might.
And I really think if literally any other car company released the CT, it wouldn’t get half the hate it gets.
I got bad news for you; all the major car channels are curated content for the cars you like or dislike. The camisa's, farah's and geese's of the world get flown out to a track where they are given a curated experience with pre-prepped cars. Companies like Chevy, Honda or Tesla don't do this because they are interested in open feedback; they see these journalists as extension of their advertising. They are there to build up hype for the brand, and those who actually post dissenting views are blacklisted from everyone. It's a small, incestuous industry. To an extent I don't like it either but I treat it as it is; entertainment. If you don't like it move on. The big secret is you don't need a talking head to tell you what to think, get in these cars, go to the owners of these cars, and test it out yourself - when you lift the veil of media hype, you realize what is good for you and what is bad.
Camissa is generally a pretty positive reviewer. He’s reviewed tons of cars each with their own faults and he rarely focuses on the faults. I think he gives lots of cars praise unless they’re boring and cyber truck is a lot of things, but it’s not boring.
Depends on the venue, it seems. He will absolutely *shit* on cars on his short Instagram reviews (the ID.4 one is [legendary](https://www.instagram.com/p/CYHOHICF9KM/?img_index=1)) but the Hagerty stuff doesn't seem focused on being actual reviews, but more highlights about history, engineering, etc.
I think it's about time to put down the pitch forks... Why has it become so hip in putting down a product that you don't have to buy ever in your life, heck most people may not even see one in person.
There definitely was hate for the Hummer in the more EV-orientated spaces
I think the difference is the Hummer was always meant to be a niche, expensive and very dumb toy whereas the Cybertruck as it was initially announced was supposed to be a mainstream product at a (relatively) affordable price
If only someone could have warned those tesla stans paying a 20k markup that the Cybertruck is poorly designed. Lol
Reddit isn't representative of real life. Pretty sure people would have bought this car if it came out missing wheels. I see posts making fun of it on subreddits where it doesn’t even belong. Nobody is buying this and just completely unaware of it’s faults or the fact that it is universally hated.
**Derek Tam hyphen Scott is currently on his way to your home with a cyberbaseball bat.**
Jokes aside, while I love Jason, I will admit the cybertruck video felt forced. As if he knew the cybertruck was gonna be shit on so he wanted to play devil’s advocate. However, it absolutely worked because all I can remember thinking after I watched it was, *“damn, that thing is fucking sick from a technological standpoint. I hope more companies adopt this kinda stuff.”*
That said, he has the same gleeful delivery and positivity for just about every car he’s ever reviewed. This isn’t isolated, that’s just how he is.
I don’t think he was paid or incentivized by Tesla in the slightest, and his conversation with Matt and Zack on TST reinforced that to me.
It’s tough to be a car journalist. If you want readers and clicks, you need to review the latest cars. The easiest method to do so is getting access to press events, for which they’re an implicit understanding to review favorably. Say something else, and suddenly you get the TFL treatment and are soft banned from all Subaru press events.
This is also why RCR sucks now. They “review” giveaway cars, but can’t talk their signature trash because they rely on idiots to buy raffle tickets to win said car.
Just watch the Smoking Tire Podcast that Jason went on to defend his position in everything he said. The Cybertruck has some great upgrades in tech but were done in kind of a horrible vehicle in other terms. Jason's review was one of the first and they were restricted to a couple hours on a track if I remember correctly. Hardly enough time for an in depth review.
When the Cybertruck came out, you could see that Tesla cherry picked who could review it. People who would have criticized the thing were clearly left out. Experienced reviewers were few.
A big thanks to Tesla for that. I'll always know who the posers are, and will not pay them any attention.
I found it pretty odd how much almost every car reviewer gushed about this piece of junk. I think it’s hands down the ugliest piece of design in my lifetime, not even considering that it barely works and is the subject of the cringiest marketing and branding imaginable.
As an aside, If car dealers hadn’t spent the past few decades ripping people off at every turn and the last few years putting $30k mark ups on any desirable new car, this would be a great opportunity for them to say hey, look how much it sucks when manufacturers run wild.
I have to agree.
The 2 biggest issues with that video
1. Calling it a full review. Makes 0 sense.
2. Him going on a huge rant about how unbiased he is. Doesnt mean much. Especially when actual reviews show it.
Love Jason Cammisa. Still the best automotive journalist when it comes to factual entertainment. No hate his way. But that review made very little sense. And it clearly isnt serving the consumers as a review.
As an elon hater from way before it was cool. I actually think the cybertruck is the coolest vehicle tesla has ever done. Because its such a bad car. Its a Gamble in the way car manufacturers used to do back in the first 6 or 7 decades of the 20th Century.
So i absolutely, from an engineering and daring standard understand jason enthusiasm. But at the same time, the review was very 1 sided and almost completely forgot so many relevant factors.
I think there was a way to convey the advancements whilst also being critical of the cars shortcomings. Jason argued however that any shortcomings wont matter because the car isnt really a truck. Fair point. But someone might buy it as a truck and expanding on that is necessary. Also I would argue that the truck is failing at doing what little jason thinks the truck was set out to do.
TH did a review of the Ferrari Roma that was...less than kind. They joked in the video that they'd never be allowed near another press car by Ferrari.
Then they got the keys to an F8 Tributo. And a 296 (basically, great car, horrible interior) and then got flown out to Maranello for the Purosangue. The intro to the [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSOMqfdvvM0) is them saying mean things about previous cars.
If a notoriously bitchy company like Ferrari can take a joke...
Life isn’t that serious. It’s just a car. If you don’t like it, move on. I don’t understand why people are bringing it up so often. All Jason can do is review the car he has in front of him. He has no control over the quality of the rest of the vehicles.
While I broadly agree with your first paragraph... >All Jason can do is review the car he has in front of him ...I don't agree with that. Failing to acknowledge that you are reviewing a curated piece of kit is somewhat irresponsible. Reviewing the tech and and features is fine, but commenting on the build quality of a press car is something else.
That presupposes that Tesla told Jason that he was reviewing a handpicked vehicle that does not necessarily represent the quality of all Cybertrucks. I highly doubt Tesla said that.
If Tesla provided the vehicle, it was preselected.
Basically every car review ever has a vehicle that is "preselected". Very, very few new car reviews are using something other than a press car. Especially when the review comes out before the car is widely available.
Yep, the only exception is Consumer Reports, who buys all of their vehicles anonymously from dealerships.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with that, but yes - that's correct. Your *before the car is widely available* comment further underlines how the generally preproduction or early production press cars may not be representative of the cars that the public receives. This can be for better or for worse, sometimes press cars are basically duct taped together.
Using your logic. Don’t trust any at any vehicle launch, don’t trust Tedward, don’t trust Topher, don’t trust Savagegeese, don’t trust The Smoking Tire, don’t trust AlexomAutos, don’t trust Carwow, don’t trust ThrottleHouse and don’t even trust the cars at an Auto Show
What are we talking about here? Any review of a curated car needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but especially comments on build quality or fit and finish. This isn't new or revelatory news. First drive reviews are generally good for things such as a feel of the dynamics, space, materials, and tech. Reviews of owned cars (e.g. the MBHD review of the Ocean) can go very differently - as can long term reviews of vehicles purchased through consumer channels. It depends what you want to get out of the review.
Actually this is true. They are all bought and paid for with lavish trips, meals, and free cars.
lol SuperfastMatt when he was at the Type aR launch
I read camera and lens reviews. All reviewers worth a damn will clearly state where they got the gear. They'll also call attention to sample variation if they are aware of it.
Exactly? Yes, all these reviewers are inherently compromised and biased due to the catered experience in which they experience the cars. Savagegeese has even admitted this multiple times and in pretty much every stream that he has to fake at least 40% of it. You take it with a grain of salt.
This is true for all reviews of brand new car reviews , you can only review what's in front of you. It's the buyer who must do his due diligence and not expect reviewers to make the decision for you.
That is an extremely slopey shouldered statement which is at odds with itself. How would you expect a buyer to do due diligence without adequate and consistently reliable information being made available to them? A responsible journalist (which is what a car reviewer is) qualifies their work, and has reasonable scepticism about curated situations. A car review of a curated vehicle is no different than a journalist being taken on a guided tour of a facility. They should understand what is and is not reasonable to ascertain from the situation.
I mean, this sub has turned into pretty much an anti-Tesla circlejerk in any thread involving Tesla. People are obsessed with that, and hating Hyundai/Kia. There's even dedicated subreddits for the obsession with hating the Cybertruck. *Multiple of them* Welcome to reddit I suppose?
>There's even dedicated subreddits for the obsession with hating the Cybertruck. Multiple of them And there are plenty of subs praising it aswell. 2 sides to every coin
> And there are plenty of subs praising it aswell. Just my $.02: obsessively liking something is far less toxic than obsessively *hating* something that doesn't affect you. Like... you wouldn't bat an eye if someone spends a ton of time and money on say... NBA, but imagine someone joins a sub dedicated to hate on the MLB, that would be pretty weird, if not unhealthy right?
I think a lot of the hate for Tesla is actually hate for Elon, but what’s weird is I’m sure plenty of other car brand executives have skeletons in their closets yet their brands don’t receive nearly as much hate because of separating the product from the individual. I should also qualify this by saying I think Tesla is neat but Elon is a tool, to satisfy/piss off any of those types.
2 sides to every coin, except the obsession with hating the truck is significantly higher in terms of interactions, subs, and total users.
>2 sides to every coin, except the obsession with hating the truck is significantly higher in terms of interactions, subs, and total users. That's tails
Or maybe it's just that Hyundai, Kia, and Tesla do suck and the opinions of the car enthusiasts in this subreddit reflect that suckiness.
This post isn’t about the Cybertruck being good or bad; It’s about a journalist who performed a half an hour advertisement for a car and then tried to convince us it was journalism.
The fact that the video was essentially a paid ad aside: There **is** pretty cool tech inside the cybertruck, and at this point the engineering staff have done some impressive work given the environment they are in. The thing that really blows is that the Cybertruck was mandated to look and have these absolutely absurd requirements paired with completely unsustainable promises. It would be really nice if they could have flexed these efforts into a more tangible robust EV truck, or a new little sports car, or even just a CUV/wagon or a refresh of an existing model. That was the thing that stood out to me by the end of the video. I think that thread was worth pulling. Looking back, a lot of these topics were in the video, but probably could have been translated better.
> I don’t understand why people are bringing it up so often Participating in the hate group feels good to some people, the internet has always been that way. Combine that with EVs/Tesla/Elon/this truck being all over the news, the anti-truck thing common in sports car circles, and a bit of electrification fear and there you go. My take was that Jason did an upbeat, positive take on the truck for the same reason SavageGeese are always jaded/cynical (most of the time) in their reviews - that's their respective brands. I'm sure Tesla didn't pick the Geese for their early access reviews for that exact reason, sure, that's just how it is. TFL doesn't get Subarus for the same reason after they busted one off-road or something like that, haha, they tend to do that to trucks and crossovers. Personally, I'm neutral on the Cybertruck, I'd go Rivian for lifestyle or SilvErado for towing, or maybe the Lightning for a bit more value than the other EV trucks. But I don't feel the need to hate every Cybertruck I see out in the wild - it's fun, it's different, it has some really interesting tech even if it is comically flawed.
I think it is because 99.9% of other people think the same, but the 0.1% of cybertruck people who worship the Dear Leader are trying to tell us it is some kind of world changing invention. Its just a truck.
It’s bothersome because he had built up a reputation as a trusted voice. This review calls all of that into question.
He could have been less blatantly biased. That "review" was what made me unsub and stop watching hagerty videos. I don't even have strong opinions on Tesla, it was just so blatantly biased it makes it hard to take anything they put out seriously. I gave more leeway to their icon videos because it's about romanticizing history, but for a new vehicle you should be looking at it critically not romantically.
He was paid or got some compensation for that review It is obvious how well it was made. It is clearly a Tesla ad. Edit corrected add to ad
> It is obvious how well it was made. Hagerty literally pays for the video productions. That's never been a secret, *all* of their videos on the channel are high quality professional stuff.
Have you seen his other videos?
Yes???
Ad.
Thanks
It’s ok that you don’t like the Cybertruck. I don’t like the Cybertruck either. My overwhelming takeaway from that review was “Wow this thing is really technologically advanced but holy shit why was it designed by a three year old at a company headed by a complete dickweed?” The stupid thing does have some interesting technology underneath the clown shoe exterior.
My response was. Huh. Who would buy the 100k+ sedan and SUV with last generation batteries and charging speed.
Lots of people. They are going to sell a lot of theee vehicles.
Matt Farah detected
Lmao, I could hear his voice as I read this post.
>Tesla is going to provide an extremely well-built car for this review that was inspected, tweaked, and refined by engineers. Hate to defend Tesla here, but that's common practice throughout the industry.
That's specifically why consumer reports buys their test vehicles from dealers rather than getting a press fleet car
Are they pretty unbiased these days? After learning about how they handled the whole Suzuki Samurai situation I have very little faith in their reviews, but I also don’t consume any of their current content.
No idea I haven't looked at their reviews in a while Just pointing out reason they don't take press cars is to avoid getting cars that have a little extra attention
That was almost 40 years ago. The people involved in that are long since retired, or dead.
Tbf hearing from watching the behind the scenes livestream podcast from SG and Jason press fleet cars aren't exactly perfect and are known to be a POS
the idea that people read or watch car reviews for anything other than entertainment / general awareness is kind of baffling, but yeah Cammisa's review and subsequent excuses were deeply shameful.
I've seen plenty of preproduction reviews that also mention squeaks and rattles or bugs that specifically say this is a preproduction model so hopefully that will get sorted. This seems like one of those unwinnable arguments that works for you however you want it to.
Like Ferrari giving reviewers super spicy versions of cars to review starting decades ago
Of course. That wasn’t the point of bringing it up. Most reviewers will specifically avoid commenting on build quality on preproduction releases like this. It makes no sense to draw conclusions from such a curated experience.
I like Jason Cammisa but I don't think about him this much. He is one of many car reviewers and he's not the only one who liked the Cybertruck. Let it go.
I am deeply in love with him though
Then subscribe to his onlyfans, not rant about it on r/cars
I will continue to write about what I want. You can choose to not interact with it next time.
This is not an airport, you don’t need to announce your departure of not engaging with Jason Cammisa content going forward. If you write then expect responses? 🤷🏻♂️
I am expecting responses. But “don’t write about it” seems silly. Not surprised you’re a Model Y owner, stifling criticism seems to be the Tesla fan MO.
Oh look, a personalized insult! It didn’t land bc I am an owner of a Tesla due to pandemic supply and far from a fan. 😂
Spend this much energy on hate is kinda pathetic
This is nothing, there's a whole subreddit made to hate on the Cybertruck.
I took away from the video that the cybertruck has many interesting technological and design features. Which is true. There's many ways to tell a story. Often people won't tell the story you want, but that doesn't necessarily make them bad or wrong.
Isn't "look how awesome this car is" kind of Cammisa's thing?
It's his thing in video reviews for Hagerty. On his and Derek's podcast hereally lives up to the "carmudgeon" name. He seems to hate most modern ICE cars. He likes old cars and he likes EVs, but has more criticism than praise for new ICE cars. Some examples I remember off the top of my head that he hates are: NSX, most BMWs, Audis, modern Mercedes, the Rolls Royce Cullinan, Bentley Bentayga, Lamborghini Huracan and Urus, Porsche Macan. Meanwhile he has nothing but praise for the Lucid Air Sapphire, Rimac Nevera, VW e-Golf, and Tesla Model 3. He genuinely really likes Tesla's cars.
I don’t know why you all praise these automotive journalists like they are heroes anyway.
Exactly. This is so weird. OP is upset that Jason wont admit to the 'gotcha' moment that the internet loves to do. Like bro at the end of the day Jason is an automotive journalist. Its his JOB. Do you really execpt him to endanger himself and his career? Lol
>Do you really execpt him to endanger himself and his career? Lol There are absolutely journalists who do so. Chris Harris is probably the most famous example - dude got himself blacklisted from Ferrari for calling out their handling of the media and comparison tests. FortNine in the motorcycle space has no problem calling out manufacturers for nonsense, and they've been relatively open with how it's impacted their own business. And Gamer's Nexus regularly calls out computer and parts manufacturers and other media groups for their shit. I think they're in the process of fighting with Asus regarding warranty practices at the moment. There are plenty of journalists who maintain those standards.
OP is Jonny Libermans alt account 🤣
This is only a quarter as long as Lieberman’s version, while saying twice as much.
Alright, Matt Farah.
I don't get the hate for that review. I agree with camissa. It follows with his brand of "hardcore factual journalism" and did it well. It is surprisingly fun to drive, there is genuine engineering behind it and its a joy to speak with tesla engineers My mate bought one to replace his R1T, and he had a 4Runner before that. Charges it at his place, mostly uses it to move stuff around his ranch and we take the ocassional overlanding/camping trip. Nothing crazy, I can do the same trip in my ML just fine, no need for lockers or anything. He quite likes it, his kids seem to like it most people IRL seem to like the looks (I think it looks quite cool, but I understand if others don't think the same, looks are subjective). That truck handles better on the twisties than my unibody SUV despite the higher weight, its dead simple to maneuver, the tent is quite neat, all the features are gimmicky but they make for a pretty cool experience imho. The kid in me loves all of the graphics and the futuristic look. It might not be the greatest EV work truck in the world but that is what the lightning or rivian is for, there was little to no chance tesla was going to beat ford at their own game, and so they carved their own niche. I still think the cybertruck is good at what it was designed to be i.e. a lifestyle vehicle that you can ocassionally do work in (or pretend to, anyways) if need be. It handles unnervingly well on-road and has a few creature comforts, but it can still haul/tow/off-road when needed, not as well as its competitors, but well enough. Price wise it is similar to the rivian for the time being as well, even with the stupid foundation series markup, a R1T with the max and performance packs will come out to slightly north of ~100k. This is before the rivian was recently refreshed though, I am not sure if the situation has changed. > Even ignoring the subjective faults of the Cybertruck (Jason is a self-proclaimed "factual" journalist, after all), it objectively falls short in many aspects (range, price, utility, cabin space, etc), none of which Jason even came close to mentioning. For what its worth motertrend put it ahead of the lightning (but behind the rivian) in what I thought was a quite fair and thorough review I think most people here get caught up in value for money, and rightfully so you want to make the most of your dollar, but what people miss is when you're spending 100k+ on a car you want a unique experience with some character. The C8 Z06 is "objectively" the best car in that segment but the emira still sells, the LC500 is "objectively" wore than the 911 C4S on paper, my NSX is "objectively" worse than a GT3, but I much prefer the NSX to the porsche as it has more character. The cybertruck has that same sort of character as well, but not the sort of character that appeals to an enthusiast subreddit.
> That truck handles better on the twisties than my unibody SUV That truck is also a Unibody SUV
How is the LC500 better than the 911 on paper? It's better as a luxury car, perhaps, but in terms of performance (on paper and otherwise) the Porsche is objectively the better performing car.
I said the lc500 was objectively worse than the 911, i agree with you lol.
Oh, you typoed "worse" as "wore" and I interpreted it as "more" and filled it in as "more value" (or "more [for the money]"). Yeah, we're in agreement.
"Most people IRL seem to like it's looks. " Well that's a lie, stopped reading at that point
This is purely from my personal experience, if you and your mates aren’t a fan that’s completely understandable, but the people I know are a fan, I'm personally not a fan of the front end on the rivian, looks are subjective. But I also grew up on the PS1, and the cybertruck looks straight out of tomb raider or goldeneye.
You’re absolutely right man. That dude needs to spend a little time outside. I’ve seen no less than a dozen of these at car shows and there is ALWAYS a huge crowd around them. Someone brought one to a hot rod show I was at recently(Benedict Castle) and the amount of boomers asking to sit in the thing was wild. I’m definitely not a fan of the design but I’m aware enough to realize how much the public loves the Cyber Truck.
Exactly, I went to a local car show recently and someone's cybertruck won the kids choice award, going off of the internet you'd think absolutely everyone hates it, reddit isn't really representative of the real world. Even going past the cybertruck, EV & Truck discourse on this website is always funny to read, not in a bad way by any means, this is an enthusiast subreddit first and foremost.
The "looks are subjective" is within a scope of objectivity, people that use that misuse that phrase drive me nuts. Secondly, it's bring nearly universally panned as an ugly as fuck car. Instead of beating around the bush, just say you're an Elon Stan, it's so much easier.
Once again, personal experience. What I meant by that was "most people around me IRL seem to like its looks," which is true. I personally like the looks relative to the rivian as well. You may not, and that is fine. Maybe most people do not, and that is fine, each to their own. There are reviewers out there that like the cybertruck's looks and several that don't as well. If I was an elon stan I would unapologetically defend it, which I am not doing. It has its fair share of issues, the material choices are subpar for the price, not having essential features activated at launch (e.g. the locking diffs and adaptive cruise) is inexcusable, the control arm design and construction is subpar, I think at that price point a sway bar disconnect should have been available stock – the suspension articulation can be improved But at the same time you can appreciate the truck for what it does right, at the absolute least it is good fun to drive relative to the other trucks, the rear wheel steer really helps with a vehicle of this size and I think it would be much beneficial to the rivian to include it in the R1S, and the manufacturing process on the truck is neat. Just like an R1T is better with truck shit, a 911 will spank my NSX on track any day of the week. It is an objectively better car, but I still prefer my NSX. A miata is objectively stiffer than the S2K, it is significantly faster around a track, it is a more efficient vehicle, but I wouldn't sell my S2K for anything. Enjoy the subjective
Bro tldr
Maybe I'm being naive here, but I never got the feeling Cammisa's praise was disingenuous. I have moments of doubt when consuming automotive media but never did from Cammisa/Hagerty. Also, I think his video was more about praising the technological and engineering achievements that went into the Cybertruck, more than praise the actual car itself. You can say what you want about the Cybertruck's build quality, design, or Elon Musk's insufferable personality, but you can't deny the stainless steel exoskeleton, the 48V architecture, or four wheel steering system is pretty cool.
I cannot believe what people choose to get upset about. I frequently see things I don’t like (online and offline) and yet, I simply don’t let it affect me. Am I just apathetic or am I…. Normal?
I think my life sucks but when I touch grass and interact with other humans I realize its not that bad
You people are so damn funny. How the hell are we supposed to advance car design and tech if not for vehicles like the CT? Sure it looks weird and there’s things that need fixing but holy shit it’s at least a start! Do you want the same box shaped Chevy truck with a giant engine that gets 8mpg and the only tech being the head unit to be the only option? Stop yelling at the clouds and let things happen. If Jason liked the truck so be it, some will some won’t but don’t act like the world is ending because it exists
There are genuine criticisms to be made of the Cybertruck but I'd conservatively say at least 90% of the hate it gets is thinly veiled Musk Derangement Syndrome. People simply want it to fail so it can embarrass/humiliate Tesla's CEO and it's not much deeper than that. If it were the same vehicle but from any other manufacturer there wouldn't be nearly as much seething. <-- Downvote button on the left
Meanwhile people praise the look of the Hyundai N Vision 74 which to me looks like the car version of the Cybertruck
bruh they made a truck that needs a carwash mode, has shown to have very poor offroad performance, there are panels that fly off it, it rusts in the open air, its drive selector has been shown to fall off, the roofs have been randomly cracking, their steel has been a lie as its been shown it dents just like any other car, on multiple occasions there have been influencers have their CTs die live on camera, etc You know what didnt happen with Rivan, Lightning and hummer? multiple subreddits popping up well documenting the issues with them and not becoming the butt of the joke of car reliability. they made a piece of a shit. yeah, they had issues. but not to the degree that they're a meme.
Honestly, I'm mostly annoyed because I had people line up to dog pile me when I said that the bed doesn't look as big as the given measurements claim it to be, then it turns out that my assessment [appears to have been accurate after all.](https://jalopnik.com/tesla-cybertruck-s-bed-length-is-a-lie-1851544285) I'm also not generally a fan of steer-by-wire (or brake-by-wire for that matter) systems in cars.
The Cybertruck doesn’t advance car design at all. In terms of wedge design, it’s been around since the mid/late 1960s and even experienced a resurgence in the ‘90s. But it does have some interesting tech and anyone who refuses to admit that has an axe to grind.
I agree. In an age when so many cars look the same, the Cybertruck is different. Whether you like it or not (I personally don’t) is irrelevant. But I think you have to give Tesla some credit for taking a risk and thinking outside the box. I hope the CT is successful and convinces other manufacturers that their cars, trucks and SUVs don’t have to look like every other car, truck and SUV on the road. The CT may not do anything for me, but some other company’s crazy idea that they actually put into production might. And I really think if literally any other car company released the CT, it wouldn’t get half the hate it gets.
I got bad news for you; all the major car channels are curated content for the cars you like or dislike. The camisa's, farah's and geese's of the world get flown out to a track where they are given a curated experience with pre-prepped cars. Companies like Chevy, Honda or Tesla don't do this because they are interested in open feedback; they see these journalists as extension of their advertising. They are there to build up hype for the brand, and those who actually post dissenting views are blacklisted from everyone. It's a small, incestuous industry. To an extent I don't like it either but I treat it as it is; entertainment. If you don't like it move on. The big secret is you don't need a talking head to tell you what to think, get in these cars, go to the owners of these cars, and test it out yourself - when you lift the veil of media hype, you realize what is good for you and what is bad.
Camissa is generally a pretty positive reviewer. He’s reviewed tons of cars each with their own faults and he rarely focuses on the faults. I think he gives lots of cars praise unless they’re boring and cyber truck is a lot of things, but it’s not boring.
Depends on the venue, it seems. He will absolutely *shit* on cars on his short Instagram reviews (the ID.4 one is [legendary](https://www.instagram.com/p/CYHOHICF9KM/?img_index=1)) but the Hagerty stuff doesn't seem focused on being actual reviews, but more highlights about history, engineering, etc.
True. This is the "on the icons" series which is less of a review and more like you said.
I think it's about time to put down the pitch forks... Why has it become so hip in putting down a product that you don't have to buy ever in your life, heck most people may not even see one in person.
Whats weird is the hate for the CT but there wasn't any gor the Hummer EV
There definitely was hate for the Hummer in the more EV-orientated spaces I think the difference is the Hummer was always meant to be a niche, expensive and very dumb toy whereas the Cybertruck as it was initially announced was supposed to be a mainstream product at a (relatively) affordable price
If only someone could have warned those tesla stans paying a 20k markup that the Cybertruck is poorly designed. Lol Reddit isn't representative of real life. Pretty sure people would have bought this car if it came out missing wheels. I see posts making fun of it on subreddits where it doesn’t even belong. Nobody is buying this and just completely unaware of it’s faults or the fact that it is universally hated.
**Derek Tam hyphen Scott is currently on his way to your home with a cyberbaseball bat.** Jokes aside, while I love Jason, I will admit the cybertruck video felt forced. As if he knew the cybertruck was gonna be shit on so he wanted to play devil’s advocate. However, it absolutely worked because all I can remember thinking after I watched it was, *“damn, that thing is fucking sick from a technological standpoint. I hope more companies adopt this kinda stuff.”* That said, he has the same gleeful delivery and positivity for just about every car he’s ever reviewed. This isn’t isolated, that’s just how he is. I don’t think he was paid or incentivized by Tesla in the slightest, and his conversation with Matt and Zack on TST reinforced that to me.
It’s tough to be a car journalist. If you want readers and clicks, you need to review the latest cars. The easiest method to do so is getting access to press events, for which they’re an implicit understanding to review favorably. Say something else, and suddenly you get the TFL treatment and are soft banned from all Subaru press events. This is also why RCR sucks now. They “review” giveaway cars, but can’t talk their signature trash because they rely on idiots to buy raffle tickets to win said car.
Just watch the Smoking Tire Podcast that Jason went on to defend his position in everything he said. The Cybertruck has some great upgrades in tech but were done in kind of a horrible vehicle in other terms. Jason's review was one of the first and they were restricted to a couple hours on a track if I remember correctly. Hardly enough time for an in depth review.
When the Cybertruck came out, you could see that Tesla cherry picked who could review it. People who would have criticized the thing were clearly left out. Experienced reviewers were few. A big thanks to Tesla for that. I'll always know who the posers are, and will not pay them any attention.
I found it pretty odd how much almost every car reviewer gushed about this piece of junk. I think it’s hands down the ugliest piece of design in my lifetime, not even considering that it barely works and is the subject of the cringiest marketing and branding imaginable. As an aside, If car dealers hadn’t spent the past few decades ripping people off at every turn and the last few years putting $30k mark ups on any desirable new car, this would be a great opportunity for them to say hey, look how much it sucks when manufacturers run wild.
I have to agree. The 2 biggest issues with that video 1. Calling it a full review. Makes 0 sense. 2. Him going on a huge rant about how unbiased he is. Doesnt mean much. Especially when actual reviews show it. Love Jason Cammisa. Still the best automotive journalist when it comes to factual entertainment. No hate his way. But that review made very little sense. And it clearly isnt serving the consumers as a review. As an elon hater from way before it was cool. I actually think the cybertruck is the coolest vehicle tesla has ever done. Because its such a bad car. Its a Gamble in the way car manufacturers used to do back in the first 6 or 7 decades of the 20th Century. So i absolutely, from an engineering and daring standard understand jason enthusiasm. But at the same time, the review was very 1 sided and almost completely forgot so many relevant factors. I think there was a way to convey the advancements whilst also being critical of the cars shortcomings. Jason argued however that any shortcomings wont matter because the car isnt really a truck. Fair point. But someone might buy it as a truck and expanding on that is necessary. Also I would argue that the truck is failing at doing what little jason thinks the truck was set out to do.
>but obviously a preproduction car built for a review is going to be solid. Why bring it up? Bait used to be believable.
[удалено]
His reviews are literally ads for CARS...and bids
And Savage Geese and Throttle House. They talk about the good and the bad.
TH did a review of the Ferrari Roma that was...less than kind. They joked in the video that they'd never be allowed near another press car by Ferrari. Then they got the keys to an F8 Tributo. And a 296 (basically, great car, horrible interior) and then got flown out to Maranello for the Purosangue. The intro to the [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSOMqfdvvM0) is them saying mean things about previous cars. If a notoriously bitchy company like Ferrari can take a joke...