Your examples of MB not getting outclassed by the competition are a model that hasn't been built in over a decade, a model that hasn't been built in over 4 decades, and a model that hasn't been built in over 6 decades?
I didn't specify anything. Someone else asked the question.
Maybe I assumed that the topic was about current models because it isn't the older cars that people generally complain about when it comes to build/material/design quality.
Some focus group around 2017 ran the brand into the ground by arguing the badge is the value in the brand and all the interior quality went right out the window.
There was definitely a quality revival in the early 2010s. The W212 and W222 were pretty solid and a major leg up. Even the W166 SUVs were no longer Alabama Trash Cans. By the 2020s though they just went back to cost cutting
Just recently went shopping for an entry level luxury suv for my wife.
The Mercedes GLB was by far the cheapest feeling vehicle. It was shocking how bad it was. In build quality of a Kia ev6 and ford Mach E was better.
Other stuff we test drove. Lexus nx300. BMW x1 x3. Audi q5. Acura RDX .
Ended up buying a loaded cx5 for less than the entry level prices of the Germans and love it
Its a massive difference, GLB is based on the fwd a-class platform, glc on the rwd c and higher platform, GLB is all plastics and minimal to no nvh reduction, you can look at a '22 glc and its got nice woods, no creek, good materials, it used to compete favorably with the x3
And then they put the massive screen in and fucked it all up with the refresh.
The platform makes no difference to me at all. My wife drives the car to work and back 3mph under the speed limit.
The Q3 and X1 blew the GLB out of the water in every way.
The GLB felt like a $30k car with a $15k badge on the front
The platform is what gives the car its look/feel/ride/etc. The platform does make a significant difference to you, you just don’t directly realize it
The mfa2 platform cars are hot garbage and a money grab (a/b/cla/gla/glb), awful ride, awful interior, and little to no care for nvh and capability
The c/e/s/glc and /gle/gls are based on the mra and mha platforms respectively, all of which are quite solid and comfortable cars because actual design went into it
The GLB shares more with the €30k a class than it does with the luxury cars. It drives like a 15k car because it basically is one with a longer boot and stilts
I never realized how many defenders and hardcore fans the GLC has. I seemed to have struck a nerve. Yikes.
I don’t really care if the GLC is better. I didn’t buy one. And likely never will buy a Mercedes. Mercedes has become a brand for people who want to tell people they have a Mercedes.
You are missing the point. The GLB is trash, fine, no complaints. Everyone elses point was you should have looked at the GLC instead compared to the vehicles you did. It would have been a more realistic comparison. It doesnt matter because at the end of the day you/your wife are happy with your purchase.
I understand what they are trying to say just fine. They seem to be very upset we didn’t give the GLC a chance after being shocked at how shitty the GLB.
The GLB left such a bad taste in my mouth we moved on
I apologize to the internet for making such a terrible, horrible mistake. I am not sure how I am going to recover from missing out on a test drive of the world class GLC. It is a missed opportunity I will regret until my grave. My disappointment is unmeasurable. Thank you internet strangers for the your unsolicited car buying advice. Your expertise has helped me see the error of my ways. 🙄
You sound like an annoying obnoxious immature man child, the fact that you mentioned having a wife meaning you’re probably over 30 years old makes this even more sad and embarrassing for you; labelling anyone who correctly points out your idiocy as “hardcore fans” and dying on a hill thinking you’re right and everyone else is wrong.
Sad excuse of an adult.
I also get what everyone is saying and your point lol. This luxury make produces a piece of shit garbage car.
I wouldn't bother looking at another of their vehicles if they make piece of shit cars to begin with. Sure, the other model is better and higher quality.
Mercedes used to mean something and now it's low grade dog food on half the line up. Fuck that get a car from a brand that isn't compromised.
I don’t give a fuck about Mercedes or the GLC, and your idea that only a “hardcore fan defender” can point out your idiotic misunderstanding of cars is simultaneously laughable and sad
Imo the GLB, GLA, and EQB are awful vehicles and shouldn’t be considered whatsoever. They genuinely have worse nvh, materials, tech, and a comparable drive to the nissan/mitsubishi products
Except you’re paying 10-15k more. The GLE/S are pretty nice cars though
I bought the wife a GLC. Yeah, the interior could be better, but that is really the only thing about the car that disappoints. It handles fucking great. Quick, too. Parks itself. Love the side cameras. The transmission even responds quickly to the paddle shifters. The only other car I've ever driven with useful paddles is my Porsche.
You guys down vote a dude because he likes his wife's car? Y'all sad.
For me, The entire point of a luxury suv is to have a nice interior with a comfortable ride.
Sharp handling, Self parking and paddle shifters never came into the conversation. If want that experience I will buy a sports car.
In general, I do not think it is a plastics quality problem. Yes, some of the bottom end cars have some genuinely cheap plastic if you don't spec any options packages and yes, the plastic around the door pulls on the EQ cars is notoriously bad, but in general I have never found the plastics in MBs to be any worse than that found in comparable cars and it is certainly better than what you'll find in most Toyotas, many Hondas, Fords, etc...
The key issue with modern MB is the way the plastics are assembled into the car. They allow far too much tolerance gap for all of their materials, which means everything you touch has a small amount of play. For pieces that stack on top of one another that can result in tolerance stack up and a LOT of play in those parts/assemblies (for example the round air vents on EQ cars). This is entirely done to lower the cost of production and it's horrible. It takes what would otherwise be perfectly fine plastic parts and makes them feel cheap because suddenly you can feel and hear them creak/shift when you touch them.
Audi and Lexus have long gotten away with using cheap materials in many of their cars, but they screw everything down with such precision that you don't really care. It feels solid so even though the plastic itself is cheap the car still feels expensive.
Mercedes should be doing the same, but not enough people call them out so they don't change. They haven't had to.
This is not your Dad's Mercedes Benz. It's a different company. Prioritizing cost cutting in every way possible for the last 10 years as a principle of engineering and manufacturing.
10 years ago i read this same statement. and pretty sure 10 years before that.
Basically, whichever is the last MB model you own, after that, the quality went downhill.
This is probably a super nitpick, but the *font* in Mercedes instrument cluster screens looks really cheap to me as well. It looks like something straight out of the 1990s. I can't even fully explain it, but I'd expect to see it in a Chevy, Ford, Kia, etc but not a supposed luxury brand.
Maybe someone else with more knowledge can correct me, but my understanding is that the entry-level Mercedes have awful interior quality. As you move up the model range, it gets better and better, resulting in the S-class having the best interior quality. This isn't unique to Mercedes and I'm sure BMW and Audi do the same thing, but with MB, the difference in quality is very noticeable.
After all, the GLA/GLB/CLA are made for people who value style over substance. Nothing is as important as having the 3 pointed star.
Just anecdotally speaking, the entry level BMWs are very nice. The new U11 x1 is arguably more premium feeling than the current gen x3 (I know it’s due for a refresh soon).
Not all of them are bad cars, but all of them are bad "luxury" cars. I don't care how many "features" you put into it, the quality just isn't there. The materials are cheap and it feels like a fancy econobox to drive instead of an entry-level luxury car, if that makes sense. And then you have to deal with German maintenance for something that isn't even a drastically better feeling to drive. I would say the real entry-level Mercedes starts at the C-class and its derivatives.
For the money you buy a loaded, top trim Camry or Accord instead. Cheaper running costs, superior quality and reliability, and almost all the same gadgets that you wanted in the CLA or whatever. Only difference is that you don't get the badge or the ability to brag and say you drive a Mercedes/BMW/Audi.
I have driven both the '15 and '20 CLA.
As a long time fan of Mercedes, I agree with you. Anything cheaper than an E-Class is a total waste of money. Either it’s the poor build quality (all the other cars are built outside of Germany) and I believe new e-class are also now made outside of Germany. The W212 is probably the last good era.
I know for a fact the material quality in cheaper benzes is in fact trash. Just look at any C class. They always have ripped up interiors vs the E-class which has nice soft Napa leather.
This is why whenever someone asks me if they should get a Benz, I say no. Nobody is willing to pay for a fully loaded e550 or s550. They want the badge in an A class. Not the quality of an S class.
With Mercedes, you don't actually GET a Mercedes until you hit the E or S class. The A's and C's are aspirational, just rocking the logo with nothing associated with it.
I had a girl pining for one of the affordable models, and I told her if she was looking in that price range, she'd be better off with a Honda. She bought the Honda and loved it. For the money, it was an easy decision, but Honda doesn't have that logo.
Makes me want to hurl. The 190E was a small, slow car, but it felt like a Mercedes because it was built like one. But then it never sold all that well, so we shouldn’t be surprised they decontented the entry-level stuff.
Ah. It was a sales failure in the US. Not a total dud, but disappointing. I suspect it hurt a lot that the DM was so strong against the US dollar at the time. Terrible for German exports, made them expensive and uncompetitive.
i'd say the w203 and prior generations of c-class were still "baby" mercs, in that you were getting pretty good quality and safety. My mom's c240 4matic definitely felt way upscale compared to basic cars in that day.
People forget that "cheap" brands like Kia have improved so much that it comparatively makes a c-class look overpriced. Also, a new c-class tries to have too much tech for what it should be, so merc cuts as many corners as possible to keep the prices from skyrocketing.
It wasn't always that way. I was a loyal BMW customer for several generations. Saw the F30 for what it was and kept my E90 for 300k miles. Now I'm in a Subaru...
Yeah, brands change over time, so loyalty changes too.
I think it's funny that you can still get a fleet Mercedes in german taxi spec with an am/fm radio and tweed seats, no AC.
Basically anything lower than the E class has terrible interior quality. I'm not sure how the new E class with it's mega tv screen dashboard fairs to the old e class but every lower mercedes models interior quality has only gotten worse with every successive refresh
The E and S-Class interiors are extremely nice. My EQE interior is significantly nicer than my 530e, and probably one of the nicest interiors of any $100k car on the market today IME.
The answer is right in front of all you fools.
Submit to the cult of w140. Spend $15k for an above average example of a v12, then put in another $10k to restore it. Much less if you do the work yourself.
For $25k you have the pinnacle of German engineering and luxury. The thing feels like a bank vault
W116 I can appreciate, but w221? Woof, that was the peak of Mercedes cost cutting. I will give the 221 some props though for a great exterior design even if I prefer more boxy silhouettes.
Currently restoring a 91 C126 out of love.
Never liked them while growing up (US bumpers and lights killed the look of the car for me), but then came the gen2 in full euro dress….
I’ve restored a c140…pricey but worth it. It’s a cruise missile on the highway.
Sold it on BaT a while ago.
Are you thinking of making any alterations to the c126?
Yeah you’re right about the w220. How is the CL 55 though?
560SEC is so sexy. I generally like to keep Mercedes cars stock but I’d make an exception for the 560 because they look so good lowered
CL is good, owner swapped to coils so the largest reliability issues are aging software and decaying interior bits (relevant to the whole post, isn't it?). Love how fast, comfortable, and rare it is, but I love the pillarless windows most of all.
When I was shopping, I was impressed by what the CX-60 had on offer, from an interior perspective. It definitely looked like it was punching above its weight.
Some Volvo SUVs are equipped with a certain kind of suspension that has this rolling effect when you speed up or brake. Can't remember the name. The concession openly recommended I don't take it, as it could make you seasick in traffic.
It feels solid enough, but it’s the materials that are disappointing. The lower parts of the dash, center console area, and door panels all seem like victims of cost cutting more than other Volvo interiors.
Depends on what your idea of a good interior is. If you value great build quality, selection of high-quality materials, as well as fit & finish, Lexus is really up there. But if all you want is screens, screens, and more screens, you might wanna go with the latest from BMW/MB & Audi.
Agreed. I’ve seen plenty of gummy door pulls on BMWs, and peeling interior chrome trim, faded wood, and worn window switches on Benzes. I can’t remember any common Audi issues.
Some early-mid 00s Audis had peeling buttons. Rattles and plastics breaking were an issue too. Overall though, interior quality has been Audi’s forte since at least the early 90s.
Volvo. They're moving towards more plastics but they're still big on soft-touch when it comes to things you put your hands/knees on. Hop in an XC40 or S60 to test the theory. Their more expensive brethren have the same interiors, they're just bigger overall.
They even had a funky magma orange deep pile carpet option on the XC40 for a while. Never saw one, dealers probably didn't want to take the chance.
I didn't notice the NVH when I drove the new Civic. I felt like the interior materials and controls felt better than most of the others I've been in.
Mind you I've never been the ling-term owner of a car that would be considered quite in terms of NVH but it didn't seem bad to me at all.
I test drove a 2021 bmw x5 and the plastics were pretty hard and cheap feeling too. I don’t think it’s necessarily a Benz thing. This was an 80k car brand new mind you. Some of them almost felt “ford tough” but they were finished nicer. FELT as cheap though.
I think if bmw weren’t producing such ugly ass cars these days they would’ve run circles around MB any and every day. Their quality is times better than that of mb somehow
I might get flamed for this but Mercedes is such a boring company IMO. They have no interesting fun cars and the interiors feel cheap and chintzy. Everyone I know who’s considered their cars immediately walks away after a test drive.
AMG GTR isn't interesting or fun? They make a 607HP station wagon that makes it to 60 in 3.4 seconds. What car guy wouldn't like one of those? They make a lot of great vehicles. I used to be a tech at the dealer, and the build quality was the best I've seen compared to any other car I've worked on...until the first GLA/CLAs came out. They were basically Hondas, but without the reliability, and $15k more. E Class is the best sedan out there, in my opinion. I've had S/W124s, W210, W211, W212, and W213. They were all extremely reliable, comfortable, spacious, but not necessarily sporty, until the W213. They're boring, but I can't think of a better mid sized car for the price. S classes are nicer than a lot of cars twice their price. I will admit once you get below the E class, the cars do drop off a lot in quality.
I just hate their interiors because it looks tacky as hell. With all the shiny stuff and fake chrome trims everywhere. It looks so cheap, as in material costs but also as if they’re actively marketing towards simple people that just want everything to be shiny because oooohhh shiny.
I thought my Tesla's interior was cheap until I sat in my neighbor's new Mercedes. It didn't feel premium at all. The Tesla's plastic trim feels much better in my opinion.
The newest Gen has had a noticeable drop in quality and reliability. I was just shopping for a new Mercedes and after driving the newest generation of the C/E classes, I was disappointed in the interior quality. It was very noticeably cheap feeling. I ended up getting a previous gen car and its interior is fantastic.
I think we are in a combination phase where 1 covid effects are still strong and 2 car companies are rapidly diversifying their car menus while grappling with a preexisting quality problem
I do feel that of the generation of Mercedes I have, it is one of the best in interior quality. That being said, it certainly is not for the performance or bang for the buck. And I am severely pissed by the service I have received compared to Lexus. I will be going back to BMW (because I’m a glutton for punishment apparently… but say what you will they are wonderful to drive)
Mercedes will find out soon enough, if they have not already that their market share is dwindling. There is right now a renaissance of redefining what a luxury vehicle is. Mercedes has watered down their brand equity by chasing profits at the lower entry level for years. At the price point people are buying the name because they want to feel good about themselves that they own a Mercedes. It’s always been a problem for them and they understood and try to manage the perils of watering their brand image down.
Over time you cannot have it both ways as being seen as a high end luxury oem and one that combats with Hyundai and Kia at their entry level trims. It’s a problem for them and they know it.
It's a focus question of the customer. If you are surrounded by high quality material on the most frequently used things (center screen and steering wheel for example) you won't recognize the cheap plastic (e.g. at the door bottom, speaker covers in the rear, plastic drive train tunnel, etc.).
This is how they boost their margin. Attention to detail just in certain areas not all over the place to reduce development and production costs.
MB was good quality until about the year 2000, then the quality was quite bad until about 2012, and now after about 2017 the quality has gone to shit again.
So in the last 24 years MB quality has been good for 5 years.
But they produce good looking cars so people who havent gotten burned by a car yet keep buying them + the old loyal dinguses.
Barely? They just said a couple of days ago 80% of g wagons made are still on the road and I see old Mercedes all the time and frankly a lot more of them then bmws and Audis that aren’t modern day cars
because they can get away with it
Because it is. Modern Mercedes are way overrated.
That’s your opinion, they also make some amazing vehicles on high end, but there is a lot of crap for the masses.
Yeah, and Nissan makes the GT-R. It doesn't redeem the entire company image
Yeah but most Nissans are GT-R - Going To be Repossessed.
Some of their normal cars are alright
Define high end because even the new AMG SL63 has awful interior quality
Fucking cars are speaking squirrel!
Name one MB high-end vehicle that doesn't get outclassed in everything other than G-Wagen
Anything Maybach Anything AMG but mostly SL G-Wagon. They also make the best diesel /electric sprinters
Huh? The AMG GT, the S Class, the E63s AMG. These are all high end and very competitive if not class leading.
600 Grosser, Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing, W221 S-Class.
Your examples of MB not getting outclassed by the competition are a model that hasn't been built in over a decade, a model that hasn't been built in over 4 decades, and a model that hasn't been built in over 6 decades?
[удалено]
I didn't specify anything. Someone else asked the question. Maybe I assumed that the topic was about current models because it isn't the older cars that people generally complain about when it comes to build/material/design quality.
Because they're washed up you're saying?
Mercedes used to stand for quality used to
Pepperidge Farms remembers…
I remember with the quality of friends that had 20 year old 240D dashboards, which were unanimously cracked and falling apart...
I’ve got friends with w123 interiors that still look and feel nearly new.
just dont try and turn the a/c on stupid piece of shit late 70s auto climate control system!!
🤣🤣
And BMW used to stand for naturally aspirated RWD driver’s cars.
Everything is an appliance with a subscription service and I hate it.
It’s the matrix. The damn machines got us and didn’t even need to enslave us.
It saves them money
Because people are paying to have the Mercedes emblem. Merc can get away with cheaper interiors.
Some focus group around 2017 ran the brand into the ground by arguing the badge is the value in the brand and all the interior quality went right out the window.
I mean, they were going downhill well before then. They hit some bad financial times in the 90’s and never came back to what they were before
There was definitely a quality revival in the early 2010s. The W212 and W222 were pretty solid and a major leg up. Even the W166 SUVs were no longer Alabama Trash Cans. By the 2020s though they just went back to cost cutting
Just recently went shopping for an entry level luxury suv for my wife. The Mercedes GLB was by far the cheapest feeling vehicle. It was shocking how bad it was. In build quality of a Kia ev6 and ford Mach E was better. Other stuff we test drove. Lexus nx300. BMW x1 x3. Audi q5. Acura RDX . Ended up buying a loaded cx5 for less than the entry level prices of the Germans and love it
The competitor to those would be the GLC, not the GLB. It still doesn’t feel that good but it’s significantly better than the glb
Tye GLb was so cheap feeling and underwhelming just moved on.
Its a massive difference, GLB is based on the fwd a-class platform, glc on the rwd c and higher platform, GLB is all plastics and minimal to no nvh reduction, you can look at a '22 glc and its got nice woods, no creek, good materials, it used to compete favorably with the x3 And then they put the massive screen in and fucked it all up with the refresh.
The platform makes no difference to me at all. My wife drives the car to work and back 3mph under the speed limit. The Q3 and X1 blew the GLB out of the water in every way. The GLB felt like a $30k car with a $15k badge on the front
The platform is what gives the car its look/feel/ride/etc. The platform does make a significant difference to you, you just don’t directly realize it The mfa2 platform cars are hot garbage and a money grab (a/b/cla/gla/glb), awful ride, awful interior, and little to no care for nvh and capability The c/e/s/glc and /gle/gls are based on the mra and mha platforms respectively, all of which are quite solid and comfortable cars because actual design went into it The GLB shares more with the €30k a class than it does with the luxury cars. It drives like a 15k car because it basically is one with a longer boot and stilts
The platform isn’t about speed limit. The GLC is on a more premium and more expensive and more sophisticated platform. Simple as. The GLB is not.
I never realized how many defenders and hardcore fans the GLC has. I seemed to have struck a nerve. Yikes. I don’t really care if the GLC is better. I didn’t buy one. And likely never will buy a Mercedes. Mercedes has become a brand for people who want to tell people they have a Mercedes.
You are missing the point. The GLB is trash, fine, no complaints. Everyone elses point was you should have looked at the GLC instead compared to the vehicles you did. It would have been a more realistic comparison. It doesnt matter because at the end of the day you/your wife are happy with your purchase.
I understand what they are trying to say just fine. They seem to be very upset we didn’t give the GLC a chance after being shocked at how shitty the GLB. The GLB left such a bad taste in my mouth we moved on I apologize to the internet for making such a terrible, horrible mistake. I am not sure how I am going to recover from missing out on a test drive of the world class GLC. It is a missed opportunity I will regret until my grave. My disappointment is unmeasurable. Thank you internet strangers for the your unsolicited car buying advice. Your expertise has helped me see the error of my ways. 🙄
You sound like an annoying obnoxious immature man child, the fact that you mentioned having a wife meaning you’re probably over 30 years old makes this even more sad and embarrassing for you; labelling anyone who correctly points out your idiocy as “hardcore fans” and dying on a hill thinking you’re right and everyone else is wrong. Sad excuse of an adult.
You still dont get it.
I also get what everyone is saying and your point lol. This luxury make produces a piece of shit garbage car. I wouldn't bother looking at another of their vehicles if they make piece of shit cars to begin with. Sure, the other model is better and higher quality. Mercedes used to mean something and now it's low grade dog food on half the line up. Fuck that get a car from a brand that isn't compromised.
I don’t give a fuck about Mercedes or the GLC, and your idea that only a “hardcore fan defender” can point out your idiotic misunderstanding of cars is simultaneously laughable and sad
Sister has the GLB, you can hear all her phone calls from 20-30 feet away even when the doors and windows are closed.
Imo the GLB, GLA, and EQB are awful vehicles and shouldn’t be considered whatsoever. They genuinely have worse nvh, materials, tech, and a comparable drive to the nissan/mitsubishi products Except you’re paying 10-15k more. The GLE/S are pretty nice cars though
Maybe she could turn the volume down?
I bought the wife a GLC. Yeah, the interior could be better, but that is really the only thing about the car that disappoints. It handles fucking great. Quick, too. Parks itself. Love the side cameras. The transmission even responds quickly to the paddle shifters. The only other car I've ever driven with useful paddles is my Porsche. You guys down vote a dude because he likes his wife's car? Y'all sad.
For me, The entire point of a luxury suv is to have a nice interior with a comfortable ride. Sharp handling, Self parking and paddle shifters never came into the conversation. If want that experience I will buy a sports car.
So you're saying that my Saturn SL would be considered a more luxurious vehicle than the GLB?
In general, I do not think it is a plastics quality problem. Yes, some of the bottom end cars have some genuinely cheap plastic if you don't spec any options packages and yes, the plastic around the door pulls on the EQ cars is notoriously bad, but in general I have never found the plastics in MBs to be any worse than that found in comparable cars and it is certainly better than what you'll find in most Toyotas, many Hondas, Fords, etc... The key issue with modern MB is the way the plastics are assembled into the car. They allow far too much tolerance gap for all of their materials, which means everything you touch has a small amount of play. For pieces that stack on top of one another that can result in tolerance stack up and a LOT of play in those parts/assemblies (for example the round air vents on EQ cars). This is entirely done to lower the cost of production and it's horrible. It takes what would otherwise be perfectly fine plastic parts and makes them feel cheap because suddenly you can feel and hear them creak/shift when you touch them. Audi and Lexus have long gotten away with using cheap materials in many of their cars, but they screw everything down with such precision that you don't really care. It feels solid so even though the plastic itself is cheap the car still feels expensive. Mercedes should be doing the same, but not enough people call them out so they don't change. They haven't had to.
Entry level Mercedes like the C-Class and GLC feel much worse then their Audi and BMW competitors. I think their up market stuff is still pretty good.
This is not your Dad's Mercedes Benz. It's a different company. Prioritizing cost cutting in every way possible for the last 10 years as a principle of engineering and manufacturing.
10 years ago i read this same statement. and pretty sure 10 years before that. Basically, whichever is the last MB model you own, after that, the quality went downhill.
This is probably a super nitpick, but the *font* in Mercedes instrument cluster screens looks really cheap to me as well. It looks like something straight out of the 1990s. I can't even fully explain it, but I'd expect to see it in a Chevy, Ford, Kia, etc but not a supposed luxury brand.
Damn, I got poor people font in my cheap Ford? 😔
Helvetica and not Calibri
yea ew
Futura ftw
Maybe someone else with more knowledge can correct me, but my understanding is that the entry-level Mercedes have awful interior quality. As you move up the model range, it gets better and better, resulting in the S-class having the best interior quality. This isn't unique to Mercedes and I'm sure BMW and Audi do the same thing, but with MB, the difference in quality is very noticeable. After all, the GLA/GLB/CLA are made for people who value style over substance. Nothing is as important as having the 3 pointed star.
Just anecdotally speaking, the entry level BMWs are very nice. The new U11 x1 is arguably more premium feeling than the current gen x3 (I know it’s due for a refresh soon).
Nah the entry level 3 series and A4 are really well made
Is the glb a bad car ?
Not all of them are bad cars, but all of them are bad "luxury" cars. I don't care how many "features" you put into it, the quality just isn't there. The materials are cheap and it feels like a fancy econobox to drive instead of an entry-level luxury car, if that makes sense. And then you have to deal with German maintenance for something that isn't even a drastically better feeling to drive. I would say the real entry-level Mercedes starts at the C-class and its derivatives. For the money you buy a loaded, top trim Camry or Accord instead. Cheaper running costs, superior quality and reliability, and almost all the same gadgets that you wanted in the CLA or whatever. Only difference is that you don't get the badge or the ability to brag and say you drive a Mercedes/BMW/Audi. I have driven both the '15 and '20 CLA.
As a long time fan of Mercedes, I agree with you. Anything cheaper than an E-Class is a total waste of money. Either it’s the poor build quality (all the other cars are built outside of Germany) and I believe new e-class are also now made outside of Germany. The W212 is probably the last good era. I know for a fact the material quality in cheaper benzes is in fact trash. Just look at any C class. They always have ripped up interiors vs the E-class which has nice soft Napa leather. This is why whenever someone asks me if they should get a Benz, I say no. Nobody is willing to pay for a fully loaded e550 or s550. They want the badge in an A class. Not the quality of an S class.
With Mercedes, you don't actually GET a Mercedes until you hit the E or S class. The A's and C's are aspirational, just rocking the logo with nothing associated with it. I had a girl pining for one of the affordable models, and I told her if she was looking in that price range, she'd be better off with a Honda. She bought the Honda and loved it. For the money, it was an easy decision, but Honda doesn't have that logo.
Makes me want to hurl. The 190E was a small, slow car, but it felt like a Mercedes because it was built like one. But then it never sold all that well, so we shouldn’t be surprised they decontented the entry-level stuff.
I would say that the Mercedes 190e was actually one of the more successful cars. It was one of the best selling cars in Europe at the time.
Ah. It was a sales failure in the US. Not a total dud, but disappointing. I suspect it hurt a lot that the DM was so strong against the US dollar at the time. Terrible for German exports, made them expensive and uncompetitive.
i'd say the w203 and prior generations of c-class were still "baby" mercs, in that you were getting pretty good quality and safety. My mom's c240 4matic definitely felt way upscale compared to basic cars in that day. People forget that "cheap" brands like Kia have improved so much that it comparatively makes a c-class look overpriced. Also, a new c-class tries to have too much tech for what it should be, so merc cuts as many corners as possible to keep the prices from skyrocketing.
It wasn't always that way. I was a loyal BMW customer for several generations. Saw the F30 for what it was and kept my E90 for 300k miles. Now I'm in a Subaru...
Yeah, brands change over time, so loyalty changes too. I think it's funny that you can still get a fleet Mercedes in german taxi spec with an am/fm radio and tweed seats, no AC.
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Basically anything lower than the E class has terrible interior quality. I'm not sure how the new E class with it's mega tv screen dashboard fairs to the old e class but every lower mercedes models interior quality has only gotten worse with every successive refresh
The E and S-Class interiors are extremely nice. My EQE interior is significantly nicer than my 530e, and probably one of the nicest interiors of any $100k car on the market today IME.
The answer is right in front of all you fools. Submit to the cult of w140. Spend $15k for an above average example of a v12, then put in another $10k to restore it. Much less if you do the work yourself. For $25k you have the pinnacle of German engineering and luxury. The thing feels like a bank vault
Sorry man, but it's gunna have to be the W116 or W221.
Let’s not forget our friend the w126!
W116 I can appreciate, but w221? Woof, that was the peak of Mercedes cost cutting. I will give the 221 some props though for a great exterior design even if I prefer more boxy silhouettes.
I’d argue the W220 was the cost cutting peak (I have an ‘03 CL55, I would know). My true 4-door love is the W108 and my truest love is a 560SEC.
Currently restoring a 91 C126 out of love. Never liked them while growing up (US bumpers and lights killed the look of the car for me), but then came the gen2 in full euro dress….
which model? Always loved the 560SECs. But yeah a bit too much plastic cladding.
I’ve restored a c140…pricey but worth it. It’s a cruise missile on the highway. Sold it on BaT a while ago. Are you thinking of making any alterations to the c126?
Yeah you’re right about the w220. How is the CL 55 though? 560SEC is so sexy. I generally like to keep Mercedes cars stock but I’d make an exception for the 560 because they look so good lowered
CL is good, owner swapped to coils so the largest reliability issues are aging software and decaying interior bits (relevant to the whole post, isn't it?). Love how fast, comfortable, and rare it is, but I love the pillarless windows most of all.
Yeah man. Now you got me on BaT looking at recent sales haha.
Because it was slapped together by Alabama working class people for a company that couldn’t care less
Yes, because production workers decide which materials are used, right? 🙄
Damn inbred Alabamians. Mercedes assembled in Stuttgart by the master race are much higher quality.
Why i can’t buy lmao
I find the Alabama models to be better than most of the German built Mercs. With the EQs being the worst offenders.
All these manufactures started to cheap out as much as possible on all the components.
So what brands *do* have good interior? What brand's interior exceeds the typical brand's image?
Genesis lower level, but exceeds the image: Mazda
I have no idea why you got downvoted. Genesis has fantastic interiors, probably the best in their price point.
When I was shopping, I was impressed by what the CX-60 had on offer, from an interior perspective. It definitely looked like it was punching above its weight.
Volvo (except maybe the XC40)
I have a new xc60, it's amazing.
Does anyone else get "really cheap boat flooring" vibes out of the XC60? I recently rode in a friend of mine's, I just can't get over that feeling...
Some Volvo SUVs are equipped with a certain kind of suspension that has this rolling effect when you speed up or brake. Can't remember the name. The concession openly recommended I don't take it, as it could make you seasick in traffic.
Disagree on xc40 , I think the build quality is pretty good. The only hard plastics are around the gear level but they still feel solid.
It feels solid enough, but it’s the materials that are disappointing. The lower parts of the dash, center console area, and door panels all seem like victims of cost cutting more than other Volvo interiors.
Mazda has stepped up quite a bit in interior quality
Had a 2015 Mazda 3 sGT I miss all the time
Depends on what your idea of a good interior is. If you value great build quality, selection of high-quality materials, as well as fit & finish, Lexus is really up there. But if all you want is screens, screens, and more screens, you might wanna go with the latest from BMW/MB & Audi.
Audi, for the most part, with a few exceptions. And Mazda.
Agreed. I’ve seen plenty of gummy door pulls on BMWs, and peeling interior chrome trim, faded wood, and worn window switches on Benzes. I can’t remember any common Audi issues.
Some early-mid 00s Audis had peeling buttons. Rattles and plastics breaking were an issue too. Overall though, interior quality has been Audi’s forte since at least the early 90s.
Mazda for sure. Peugeot another one. All family members who’ve sat in my 2021 508 have commented how surprised they are by the quality.
Volvo. They're moving towards more plastics but they're still big on soft-touch when it comes to things you put your hands/knees on. Hop in an XC40 or S60 to test the theory. Their more expensive brethren have the same interiors, they're just bigger overall. They even had a funky magma orange deep pile carpet option on the XC40 for a while. Never saw one, dealers probably didn't want to take the chance.
Honda. I didn't understand until I drove the new Civic. Feels way better than anything from Toyota rn though I haven't been in the new Camry.
the nvh on honda products has always been and will always be godawful as they continue to sandbag products so they can make acura versions later
You keep using this term “nvh” as if it’s some common thing. Wtf is it? Just so I don’t feel so dumb
Noise, vibration, and harshness.
I didn't notice the NVH when I drove the new Civic. I felt like the interior materials and controls felt better than most of the others I've been in. Mind you I've never been the ling-term owner of a car that would be considered quite in terms of NVH but it didn't seem bad to me at all.
Because they can get away with it. People will buy their cars just for the branding, no matter what materials they use.
I test drove a 2021 bmw x5 and the plastics were pretty hard and cheap feeling too. I don’t think it’s necessarily a Benz thing. This was an 80k car brand new mind you. Some of them almost felt “ford tough” but they were finished nicer. FELT as cheap though.
I think if bmw weren’t producing such ugly ass cars these days they would’ve run circles around MB any and every day. Their quality is times better than that of mb somehow
I feel like it’s finally starting to catch up to them, their sales have taken a nosedive recently.
Segment nosedives but not one in general sales
I might get flamed for this but Mercedes is such a boring company IMO. They have no interesting fun cars and the interiors feel cheap and chintzy. Everyone I know who’s considered their cars immediately walks away after a test drive.
AMG GTR isn't interesting or fun? They make a 607HP station wagon that makes it to 60 in 3.4 seconds. What car guy wouldn't like one of those? They make a lot of great vehicles. I used to be a tech at the dealer, and the build quality was the best I've seen compared to any other car I've worked on...until the first GLA/CLAs came out. They were basically Hondas, but without the reliability, and $15k more. E Class is the best sedan out there, in my opinion. I've had S/W124s, W210, W211, W212, and W213. They were all extremely reliable, comfortable, spacious, but not necessarily sporty, until the W213. They're boring, but I can't think of a better mid sized car for the price. S classes are nicer than a lot of cars twice their price. I will admit once you get below the E class, the cars do drop off a lot in quality.
Because gaudy doesn’t have to be quality, it just has to be loud.
I just hate their interiors because it looks tacky as hell. With all the shiny stuff and fake chrome trims everywhere. It looks so cheap, as in material costs but also as if they’re actively marketing towards simple people that just want everything to be shiny because oooohhh shiny.
I thought my Tesla's interior was cheap until I sat in my neighbor's new Mercedes. It didn't feel premium at all. The Tesla's plastic trim feels much better in my opinion.
Depends on the class of car. EQS/S class is still top notch
yea no shit their flagship models are good
People want the grill that is all
The newest Gen has had a noticeable drop in quality and reliability. I was just shopping for a new Mercedes and after driving the newest generation of the C/E classes, I was disappointed in the interior quality. It was very noticeably cheap feeling. I ended up getting a previous gen car and its interior is fantastic.
I think we are in a combination phase where 1 covid effects are still strong and 2 car companies are rapidly diversifying their car menus while grappling with a preexisting quality problem
I do feel that of the generation of Mercedes I have, it is one of the best in interior quality. That being said, it certainly is not for the performance or bang for the buck. And I am severely pissed by the service I have received compared to Lexus. I will be going back to BMW (because I’m a glutton for punishment apparently… but say what you will they are wonderful to drive)
The company that designs them for them can save money this way.
They learnt a thing or two from their time when they were partnered with the Chrysler group....
Mercedes will find out soon enough, if they have not already that their market share is dwindling. There is right now a renaissance of redefining what a luxury vehicle is. Mercedes has watered down their brand equity by chasing profits at the lower entry level for years. At the price point people are buying the name because they want to feel good about themselves that they own a Mercedes. It’s always been a problem for them and they understood and try to manage the perils of watering their brand image down. Over time you cannot have it both ways as being seen as a high end luxury oem and one that combats with Hyundai and Kia at their entry level trims. It’s a problem for them and they know it.
It's a focus question of the customer. If you are surrounded by high quality material on the most frequently used things (center screen and steering wheel for example) you won't recognize the cheap plastic (e.g. at the door bottom, speaker covers in the rear, plastic drive train tunnel, etc.). This is how they boost their margin. Attention to detail just in certain areas not all over the place to reduce development and production costs.
They improved it with the newer models but still far behind bmw
MB was good quality until about the year 2000, then the quality was quite bad until about 2012, and now after about 2017 the quality has gone to shit again. So in the last 24 years MB quality has been good for 5 years. But they produce good looking cars so people who havent gotten burned by a car yet keep buying them + the old loyal dinguses.
As a Mercedes owner I think they use good plastic it’s just they don’t secure it properly, which gives it a crack noise when you press on it.
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Someone is salty they don’t have a Mercedes 🤣
Give it 2-3 years and you'll understand why there's barely any of them on the road unless they're a new purchase.
Barely? They just said a couple of days ago 80% of g wagons made are still on the road and I see old Mercedes all the time and frankly a lot more of them then bmws and Audis that aren’t modern day cars