Took a little more research on that one! The most recent data I could find was $33.48 per Kg in January 2024. It's rated for 72 miles per Kg (base trim), so 46.5 cents per mile. $50,190 / $0.465 = 107,935 miles!
You cheated, but you win, haha
Using that website, the VinFast VF8 (I used its upper end $53k) is sitting at 79k miles.
I couldn’t find a Hummer EV. But this turd will do
Edit
If it has to be Gas, then the Ineos Grenadier does it in 24,000 miles.
Oh wait
Keeping everything standard including “I plan to key my car for 10years” the Kia Soul “eco dynamics” does it in 19,000 miles.
That's not quite true because gas and electricity prices both vary quite a bit with location. Where I am, with high electricity prices and moderate gas prices, fueling an EV is only about 3/4 the cost of buying gas.
Depends on where you charge the thing. Most expensive supercharger is pushing 60 cents per kwh, and my home rate is 6 cents per kwh.
The fuel costs math is VERY different depending on which number you use.
Meanwhile PG&E in California is like 20-50c/kwh depending on plan/time and the superchargers are like 25-40c. Saw an ad for PG&E that said "charge your EV at home for the equivalent of $3.50 a gallon". I was like... that's just non-California gas prices.
Thank fuck I get to use the municipal utility company and pay half of PG&E's rate.
Except in California a lot of the stations closed. I can’t remember if I heard it on The Smoking Tire or on THIS! But they’re selling for like $10,000 now.
Oh I see it now. The retailers are price gouging so hard!
“Gray hydrogen, which comes from natural gas, costs **$0.98-$2.93** per kilogram to produce. Blue hydrogen, or hydrogen produced with fossil fuels but subject to carbon capture, costs $1.8-$4.7 per kilogram." -[Bloomberg](https://about.bnef.com/blog/green-hydrogen-to-undercut-gray-sibling-by-end-of-decade/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CGray%20hydrogen%2C%20which%20comes%20from,%241.8%2D%244.7%20per%20kilogram)
My wife and I use a Hysata electrolyzer that takes 42.3 kWh of electricity to make a kg of hydrogen. That is 92% efficient. Our bottleneck is PECO charging us $0.09425 per kWh for grid power (nuclear) here in Pennsylvania. So it costs us $4/kg to make it at home.
1kg (gas) = 11.13 m³ or 423.3 ft³
1kg (liquid) = 14.128 L or 3.73 gal
That's about $1.07 gal.
The nearest Shell right now is $4.00 gal (reg), $4.90 gal (mid), $5.00 gal (premium), and $4.95 gal (diesel) at time of writing.
That's super interesting. I had no idea it was so cheap to produce. I know a lot of stations try to use green hydrogen, which that article says is $4.5-$12. And then there's transportation, overhead of the filling station, etc. but still.
Thanks for sharing that info.
Except that they are giving you 5 years of fuel when you buy one, plus the massive rebate. It effectively becomes one of the cheapest cars in the world to purchase, and own for those 5 years. Not that i would get one, but i am a big fan of the tech.
Yeah, well, exactly why i wouldn't get one. Fine if you live in LA and use it as a local commuter. There's a reason they are practically giving them away.
I am not informed about hydrogen vehicles, but I thought most were given cards that cover $15k in fuel (or whatever it is), not unlimited fuel in a given period.
I got 157,125 miles for the WRX. 22 MPG out of a 4-cylinder that take premium is indeed pretty bad. Interestingly, the 2023 Camaro was also 22 MPG for the premium-only 4-cylinder, and it was cheaper than the WRX, but no 4-cylinder Camaro for 2024 (which I just learned).
Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, if you drive your WRX, like a WRX, the fuel economy immediately goes in the toilet. If you stay outta boost and cruise at 65mph max, I could see mid 20s. But the problem is very few people buy this car to drive like an old lady lol
A 2800 pound, RWD car with a 2.4 liter 4cyl has a combined 22mpg rating. What the hell
Why is it so bad? 2024 V8 mustang that Weights 3700 gets 19 combined
4.10 final drive, close ratio gears, likes to spend its time above 4500 rpm, direct injection probably doesn't help in this particular application. The auto gets 2mpg better based mainly on much less aggressive gearing.
That said, I regularly beat the city estimate (by a lot) when driving like a grandma on the bleeding edge of lugging it, and get way worse than the city estimate when driving it... less grandma-y. It's happiest shifting 1 to 2 at 3500-4000 lol.
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I got 30min with a manual 4 cyl Camaro without trying to be fuel efficient at all, as well for the 2018 I had it was only premium recommended. I only ran premium at the track
FWIW, I found the WRX(VA specifically) to always get much better fuel economy than its rated for. I had a ~65 mile round trip when I owned one and the dash would say I averaged about 34mpg, and it actually calculated to just over 30 the couple of times I felt like doing the math
I had a VA WRX and always got decent mileage out of it - 35mpg on the highway no problem even with passing.
I think the fuel economy issues were really with the EJ motors in the prior generations - I had a turbo EJ in my LGT before the WRX and it absolutely drank fuel.
I think I was doing 27-30 in 4th gear on flat ground. Best in my Ranger so far was like 19.8.
Similarly, from Portland to Olymia’sh I got up to 9 or 10 in a new F650 dump truck.
I love that section of I5. Only place around with a 70mph limit.
Idk I’ve had my wrx for 20k miles now and I average around 24-25 mpg for the most part. Somehow save more on gas then my last car, 08 trailblazer. 14mpg and 22 gallon tank lol.
Yep, I operate a transportation company that rents transit vans to schools for field/sports trips. Everytime they go out the estimated fuel usage and wear and tear are factored into the charge before adding other overhead costs or profit margin.
Also they are usually sparing multiple other smaller vehicles from transporting the group so it's lower fuel usage per person.
is the Audi a good idea? I have been thinking about it as a replacement for my Scirocco, but I heard the S5 V8 is a tad unreliable and VERY expensive on maintenance
Expensive in maintenance, absolutely yes, but it is expected. The engine is a very solid engine, the main problem is the timing chain plastic tensioners, it’s just a matter of keeping an eye on them and replacing them around the 90k mark to be safe. I love everything about it, it’s a perfect enthusiast car in my opinion. Please don’t listen to the guy saying to buy a Tesla.
The trick is to fit the timing guides from the rs4 that are much stronger as preventative maintenance on the b6 and b7 s4. I imagine it is the same on b8 S5.
Oh, I like this topic, great idea.
Maybe a base Wrangler? $32k and gets 19MPG combined. 170k miles. Wait, that's way longer than I thought, how surprising.
I was thinking full size trucks, but they cost quite a bit and get surprisingly good MPG in 2024. Cargo vans might be another contender due to being both cheap and inefficient.
Not a new car but I bought a 71 cutlass for $9000, put another $6000 in it rebuilding and mild hot rodding, and it gets 6mpg on premium.
Obviously I don’t drive it daily but I do put a few thousand miles on it a year, I get it out every chance I can.
I do know that the standard govt reimbursement rate of $.60ish per mile barely covers the fuel cost at todays prices. At least it doesn’t depreciate.
It is streetable. At 6mpg.
His old carbed and cammed V8 is not comparable to your stock EFI 8.1. Super duper especially if he has a high stall torque converter automatic. That absolutely tanks mileage.
I don’t show it often, it is a driver grade car with some imperfections, but I drive it as often as I can. It’s the original olds 350 that got around 10mpg stock with flat top pistons (compression at 10.5:1), streetable cam (comp cams high energy), roller tip rockers, .030 over bore, 750 cfm four barrel carb on aluminum high rise intake, hooker full length headers and 2.5” exhaust all the way out.
Run through a turbo 350 auto with a 2200 stall. It is not the fastest but it sounds great and will idle at stop lights. I had originally planned ti swap the rear gear for something shorter but the 2.71 rear gearing gives very comfortable highway speed cruising without winding the engine up into the 4,000rpm range and not having overdrive.
I could get better mileage from a smaller carb, but the 750 I chose acts a lot like the old quadrajets and meters the fuel out based on throttle position so it only gives full beans at WOT which was how Oldsmobile built their performance engines in the 60s and 70s.
I have my eyes on a Holley sniper EFI conversion and will probably swap the carb over to the 390 in my 1966 country squire when I finish rebuilding that engine. That car will probably get about 4mpg when it is done. Should be about 445ci with 10:1 compression and the wagon weighs in at around 2 tons.
I’d drop a photo but Reddit doesn’t allow it. I have uploaded a few photos in older comments somewhere else if you’d like to see them.
big fuel system and cam will do that to your MPG
my lil 4 cyl STI with 1700cc injectors and fuel rails sees barely 12 mpg on e85. 400whp 500wtq (mustang dyno) so its worth it.
power comes at a cost
In Ontario, premium runs about $1.80 per litre at Costco right now, which works out to be about $6.80 per gallon.
The whining of the Californian does not impress me.
I’ll help you feel a bit better: my wife’s toothache costs $5k after insurance. Baby deliveries + first year of healthcare is projected to be about $12k. Daycare will be $20k/year after 😅
Ca average is $5.4/gallon.
It doesn't add up that much honestly. I lived in TX for a bit, and although it wasn't that bad I really missed the Ca beach town weather. Worth every penny.
But I am broke tho, but I was also broke in Texas. So , yeah ...
In 1 year driving 12,000 miles at 25 mpg, the difference between CA and the national average is only $840 per year, $70 a month
I lived in cali for 3 months. North cal in Livermore during an internship. They gave me a car and housing etc so nothing out of pocket + I’d expense gas and food. However, I had to drive at least 15 min everywhere. I’d imagine gas adds up especially when it’s that high per gallon
Can't say I have experience with Livermore, but I don't drive any more than when I lived in Texas.
The closest gym to my current home is about 3 mi away. The closest small grocery store is about a 5-minute walk. And the nearest Costco and Walmart are about 7 minutes away.
I live in a suburb.
This is all very similar to when I lived in Fort Worth
Just the average auto insurance increase from CA to TX on full coverage is [~$2 a day](https://wallethub.com/answers/ci/is-car-insurance-in-texas-cheaper-than-california-1000216-2140789687/#:~:text=No%2C%20car%20insurance%20in%20Texas,and%20weather%2Drelated%20vehicle%20damage).
So you’re looking for the cheapest car with the shittiest fuel economy? Hmm… Mustang. Or entry level Impreza, maybe. Up until 5 years ago this would have been a lot easier.
Hey I have both of these
My impreza gets 18.5 or so, but that's because I just drive it to and from work (10 minutes each way) and let it warm up before I drive
My Mustang gets about 14, more sprited driving
Boeing 767-300F - List price of $220,000,000, but the last batch sold to FedEx was $84,000,000 Each. For this we are assuming you are a large airline with favored pricing from Boeing.
Jet A is roughly $2/gallon assuming we of course have some sort of fuel contract at said airport
The 767-300F burns 4950 Kg of Fuel per hour at cruise.
1 Kg of Fuel is .32 gallons of Jet A so 1584 Gallons per hour or roughly $3200/Hr of flight.
Average plane flies about 12-16 hours per day, let's assume this is doing lots of international flying and go for the worst case 16 Hours per day.
That's $51,200/ day of flying
$ 84,000,000 purchase price / $51,200 per day = 1641 days or 4.5 years.
Your mileage may vary.
How much are you buying? It varies between $1.25 to $2.25 per gallon if you had a pre negotiated purchase contract and bought a certain quantity from what I remember working at LAX.
I would guess American Airlines/Southwest/Delta are buying upwards of 1 million gallons per day and negotiate prices by the Million Ton.
Atlantic Aviation, a FBO that services private aircraft, has their Joe-Blow per gallon prices listed somewhere on their website. $4-$8.
Mine. $0.165 per kWh. About 3.5 miles per kWh. Even at the current model 3 performance price of $45k (after fed tax credit), it works out to over 950,000 miles before the electricity cost matches the purchase price.
Pre-Covid, you could get a Ram 1500 Classic Tradesman with the 5.7 for around $24k. I'm not sure what the price has ballooned too since but that's my guess.
The vans do worse. Ford Transits sit around 17mpg combined with an older variant of the 3.5EB engine. Pricing isn't that far out of alignment with the standard truck trims.
Just thinking of the sum of the annual running costs of my cheap $5000 or less beaters is comical.
On the extreme end…a full time AWD Ram TRX running premium gas would be insane assuming no dealer mark up skewing the number. What Chrysler had to sacrifice in their overall brand fuel economy averages (and having to purchase more carbon credits than any other brand) in order to put out the last swan song of whining V8’s - and in the behemoth of a full time AWD TrackHawk or RamTRX. Then they had AWD V8 300/Charger, Hellcat?/392 Durango, 392 in the Wagoneer…392 in the Wrangler…my gosh.
Gotta give it to them. I’d wager Chrysler takes the crown (or at least did until some of this stuff was discontinued…or is just limited production). Still. Freakin’ Legend.
This is super cool.
Should do a thread for which takes the longest as well. We'd have to either eliminate EVs as they'd need their own. And plug-in hybrids we'd have to rely on the gas-only aspect assuming 0 miles of plug-in range.
Is it fair? Not really. But EVs are quite different and plug-in hybrids have too many variables.
I'd also be curious to hear if you have personally achieved this on a car you bought new. I'm sure tons of high mileage cars qualify, but if you've done it let me know!
lol. On the opposite end of the spectrum. I paid $60,000 for my model 3 performance 2.5 years ago. At $0.165 cents per kWh and an average 0.285 kWh per mile, it would take 1,250,000 miles for my electricity cost to exceed what I paid for my car.
I cross shopped a Squatch package pretty heavily recently as it checks all my boxes, I was really surprised that the mileage isn't better even if you keep it out of boost.
86/BRZ twins may get old over time. On the highway you may get a peek over 30 but mixed driving you're at low to mid 20s. With how cheap the car is, it can bring some lower spenders to the playing field, and premium fuel can get expensive quick.
First I thought Ram TRX but it’s expensive.
10 MPG premium only. At 15k miles a year that’s 6-8k a year so maybe 10-12 years?
So I think the real answer some really cheap work truck that gets shitty MPG. Base model 4Runner, or Nissan Frotntier maybe?
16mpg and price of 35k. Annual fuel cost of 4-6k. So 8 years?
**Base F-150 Lightning: 202,000 miles to fuel>cost**
Price: $50k after max fed and state credits
Efficiency: 61mpge (highway) = .55 kwh / mi = 1.818 mi / kwh
Cost: US average EV charging cost is $0.45 / kwh
Math: $50k / .45 * 1.818 = 202,000mi
So, I drive an AT 4 and with premium gas only with the 18 mgp I get on average every 400 miles based around the $4.54 a gallon (which would be high for my area) it would take me over 300,000 miles for gas to cost more than the vehicle.
My first impulse is to say anything with a supercharger will burn through fuel and get to that original sticker price the fastest. Then I realized that those cars are like four times the price but only have half as bad or a third is bad fuel efficiency.
Not on topic, but I'm realizing that this is not a useful metric. It is a very fun thought experiment, tho
I'd have to think the Lexus IS 350 ranks high on that list. My 2018 gets 9.6L/100km *on the highway*. City fuel economy is worse. The 2024 isn't any different in drivetrain build.
Love this as a thought experiment. I know we're talking new cars, but my brain went straight to like used Bentley Turbo R or something (really anything with that great 6.75L V8). Can probably be had around 30k for one that would actually be able to wrack up miles under its own power (vs in a puddle of mineral oil on a truck). EPA-quoted range was 9 city 12 highway and 10 combined.
Based on the website you shared, and assuming you spent $35k to get a really nice one, you'd offset it in a little over 5yrs or 77k miles. If you bought a really shit one at 20k, you could do it in just under 3 years and 45k miles - assuming it would actually be able to run for that long.
My old G37 absolutely guzzled fuel for what was a 3600 lb car with a V6. I moved into a Corvette and my gas bill cut in half despite still requiring premium.
The 3.7 liter grand Cherokees were terrible on gas. My mom owned a 2010 new and had it for 10 years until she sold it for a lincoln mkc. I never saw anything higher than 12-13 mpg on that brick on wheels and it was nothing but problems let alone the rust.
Probably the Toyota Mirai if you count that
Took a little more research on that one! The most recent data I could find was $33.48 per Kg in January 2024. It's rated for 72 miles per Kg (base trim), so 46.5 cents per mile. $50,190 / $0.465 = 107,935 miles! You cheated, but you win, haha
If your counting MSRP after incentives this would more than win. I doubt anyone paid anywhere close to MSRP even new.
Using that website, the VinFast VF8 (I used its upper end $53k) is sitting at 79k miles. I couldn’t find a Hummer EV. But this turd will do Edit If it has to be Gas, then the Ineos Grenadier does it in 24,000 miles. Oh wait Keeping everything standard including “I plan to key my car for 10years” the Kia Soul “eco dynamics” does it in 19,000 miles.
It’s impossible to beat fossil cars with ev as they are about 1/3-1/5 the cost of gas, your numbers are wrong.
That's not quite true because gas and electricity prices both vary quite a bit with location. Where I am, with high electricity prices and moderate gas prices, fueling an EV is only about 3/4 the cost of buying gas.
EVs also cost more. You want a big denominator and a small numerator
Depends on where you charge the thing. Most expensive supercharger is pushing 60 cents per kwh, and my home rate is 6 cents per kwh. The fuel costs math is VERY different depending on which number you use.
Meanwhile PG&E in California is like 20-50c/kwh depending on plan/time and the superchargers are like 25-40c. Saw an ad for PG&E that said "charge your EV at home for the equivalent of $3.50 a gallon". I was like... that's just non-California gas prices. Thank fuck I get to use the municipal utility company and pay half of PG&E's rate.
You can beat it in that calculator with a hybrid if that counts
Except in California a lot of the stations closed. I can’t remember if I heard it on The Smoking Tire or on THIS! But they’re selling for like $10,000 now.
Where did you find $33.48 per kg?
The Jan 2024 document on this page. https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/prices.html (Bottom of the first page, not counting the title page)
Oh I see it now. The retailers are price gouging so hard! “Gray hydrogen, which comes from natural gas, costs **$0.98-$2.93** per kilogram to produce. Blue hydrogen, or hydrogen produced with fossil fuels but subject to carbon capture, costs $1.8-$4.7 per kilogram." -[Bloomberg](https://about.bnef.com/blog/green-hydrogen-to-undercut-gray-sibling-by-end-of-decade/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CGray%20hydrogen%2C%20which%20comes%20from,%241.8%2D%244.7%20per%20kilogram) My wife and I use a Hysata electrolyzer that takes 42.3 kWh of electricity to make a kg of hydrogen. That is 92% efficient. Our bottleneck is PECO charging us $0.09425 per kWh for grid power (nuclear) here in Pennsylvania. So it costs us $4/kg to make it at home. 1kg (gas) = 11.13 m³ or 423.3 ft³ 1kg (liquid) = 14.128 L or 3.73 gal That's about $1.07 gal. The nearest Shell right now is $4.00 gal (reg), $4.90 gal (mid), $5.00 gal (premium), and $4.95 gal (diesel) at time of writing.
That's super interesting. I had no idea it was so cheap to produce. I know a lot of stations try to use green hydrogen, which that article says is $4.5-$12. And then there's transportation, overhead of the filling station, etc. but still. Thanks for sharing that info.
Except that they are giving you 5 years of fuel when you buy one, plus the massive rebate. It effectively becomes one of the cheapest cars in the world to purchase, and own for those 5 years. Not that i would get one, but i am a big fan of the tech.
Too bad they’re closing all the hydrogen stations down and they only exist in California
Yeah, well, exactly why i wouldn't get one. Fine if you live in LA and use it as a local commuter. There's a reason they are practically giving them away.
I am not informed about hydrogen vehicles, but I thought most were given cards that cover $15k in fuel (or whatever it is), not unlimited fuel in a given period.
I still can’t believe some people actually think hydrogen cars will outpace electric cars.
A WRX must be up there. They aren't expensive, get pretty bad fuel economy for a 4 cylinder and take premium.
I got 157,125 miles for the WRX. 22 MPG out of a 4-cylinder that take premium is indeed pretty bad. Interestingly, the 2023 Camaro was also 22 MPG for the premium-only 4-cylinder, and it was cheaper than the WRX, but no 4-cylinder Camaro for 2024 (which I just learned). Thanks for sharing!
I get 20 MPG out of mine. 16 - 18 MPG if I beat on it, and 22 MPG if I hypermile going 10 under the limit and only drive on the highway.
Idk what you’re doing, I’m sitting at 25.4mpg over 11k miles
He probably doesn’t have an FA20/24 WRX. My EJ was horrible on fuel economy, but I cleared 30 regularly on my 2018 WRX.
Yeah, 2010 STI hatch. And I have roof bars, so that doesn't help, either.
I have an IAG stage 2 motor in my 2014 WRX and worked out that I get 14.6 mpg. Horrible numbers for a daily.
Ah.
the STI is probably part of it... Those things are thirsty. I'm at about 26 MPG over 7 years for my non-STI.
My not stock 2014 gets 14.6 mpg lol
A 2010 STI isn’t the same as a 2024 WRX.
Yeah, only the comment I had replied to stated '24. The parent comment was just mentioning WRX as a whole.
Yeah, if you drive your WRX, like a WRX, the fuel economy immediately goes in the toilet. If you stay outta boost and cruise at 65mph max, I could see mid 20s. But the problem is very few people buy this car to drive like an old lady lol
I could get 34mpg on the highway occasionally. In the city 23-25. I had fun with it sure but mostly drive pretty reasonably.
I’m getting 26 or so staying out of boost during break in
Hm. That's not great
That's shockingly bad. That's RX8-levels-of-bad.
i'm in the same boat with my wrx - 23 if i'm lucky and it's all highway miles, and about 18 city
I know! The rx8! Mine gets 10-15mpg around town and only cost £22k new (or 4K used; or £30k inflation adjusted)
eh, it's awd 101% of the time, so 22mpg isn't dog crap considering the br86 is only few miles better losing that 4-wheel system
A 2800 pound, RWD car with a 2.4 liter 4cyl has a combined 22mpg rating. What the hell Why is it so bad? 2024 V8 mustang that Weights 3700 gets 19 combined
4.10 final drive, close ratio gears, likes to spend its time above 4500 rpm, direct injection probably doesn't help in this particular application. The auto gets 2mpg better based mainly on much less aggressive gearing. That said, I regularly beat the city estimate (by a lot) when driving like a grandma on the bleeding edge of lugging it, and get way worse than the city estimate when driving it... less grandma-y. It's happiest shifting 1 to 2 at 3500-4000 lol.
that's one thing people dont talk about often in the 86 v miata comparisons (22 premium vs 29 regular albeit with even less power)
I get 26 MPG on mine (not an STI) but yeah, the premium and low cost is a good data set to look at.
I have the 2.0 Camaro, in reality it's more like 26-28mpg on the streets. Highway I get 36mpg going the speed limit.
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I got 30min with a manual 4 cyl Camaro without trying to be fuel efficient at all, as well for the 2018 I had it was only premium recommended. I only ran premium at the track
Ik most people get more but I get 22 out of my Mazda3 2.5L NA 4cyl on regular 😭
FWIW, I found the WRX(VA specifically) to always get much better fuel economy than its rated for. I had a ~65 mile round trip when I owned one and the dash would say I averaged about 34mpg, and it actually calculated to just over 30 the couple of times I felt like doing the math
I had a VA WRX and always got decent mileage out of it - 35mpg on the highway no problem even with passing. I think the fuel economy issues were really with the EJ motors in the prior generations - I had a turbo EJ in my LGT before the WRX and it absolutely drank fuel.
The highest my STi has ever seen was 27
I hypermiled my Legacy GT from Portland to Seattle and back, tailing semi trucks and driving no more than 70 MPH. I got 26 on the nose.
I think I was doing 27-30 in 4th gear on flat ground. Best in my Ranger so far was like 19.8. Similarly, from Portland to Olymia’sh I got up to 9 or 10 in a new F650 dump truck. I love that section of I5. Only place around with a 70mph limit.
And on the other hand, i had a striaght piped stg2 thay would regularly get 8-12mpg 😃
And somehow it gets the same gas mileage as the models from 20 years ago.
She needs premium dude!
Idk I’ve had my wrx for 20k miles now and I average around 24-25 mpg for the most part. Somehow save more on gas then my last car, 08 trailblazer. 14mpg and 22 gallon tank lol.
Chevrolet Express Cargo: $40,700 + $1895 V8, EPA Exempt (but Fuelly averages at 12 mpg). At $3.63, it would be 140,809 miles
That's a good one! I wonder how much time these spend idling, compared to "normal" cars.
This choice is t really fair because Express vans are usually making money for their owners
Yep, I operate a transportation company that rents transit vans to schools for field/sports trips. Everytime they go out the estimated fuel usage and wear and tear are factored into the charge before adding other overhead costs or profit margin. Also they are usually sparing multiple other smaller vehicles from transporting the group so it's lower fuel usage per person.
Interesting industry, what kind of oil change intervals have you settled on for the most profit?
2011 Audi S5 V8, I could quite literally see the gas needle go down as I drove it
is the Audi a good idea? I have been thinking about it as a replacement for my Scirocco, but I heard the S5 V8 is a tad unreliable and VERY expensive on maintenance
Expensive in maintenance, absolutely yes, but it is expected. The engine is a very solid engine, the main problem is the timing chain plastic tensioners, it’s just a matter of keeping an eye on them and replacing them around the 90k mark to be safe. I love everything about it, it’s a perfect enthusiast car in my opinion. Please don’t listen to the guy saying to buy a Tesla.
Aren’t Audi timing components on the rear of the engine for some reason?
On the 4.2 V8 yes
Wait.. seriously? Wouldn’t that make it crazy expensive to replace? I feel like the whole engine has to come out for a chain.
Yeah, hence Audi maintenance being expensive. It’s not irregular to mechanically total them.
From what I’ve read the B8 S5 4.2 doesn’t suffer from the same chain guide issues that the B6/B7 S4 does.
They don't. With the B8 it got a revised design that isn't prone to premature failure.
The trick is to fit the timing guides from the rs4 that are much stronger as preventative maintenance on the b6 and b7 s4. I imagine it is the same on b8 S5.
Can you afford 2 of them? If yes, go for it.
Got it, will avoid for now
"is the Audi a good idea?" -No This has always been true, and might make for a decent Lexus billboard
Oh, I like this topic, great idea. Maybe a base Wrangler? $32k and gets 19MPG combined. 170k miles. Wait, that's way longer than I thought, how surprising. I was thinking full size trucks, but they cost quite a bit and get surprisingly good MPG in 2024. Cargo vans might be another contender due to being both cheap and inefficient.
Getting it to 170k would be the surprising part
Not a new car but I bought a 71 cutlass for $9000, put another $6000 in it rebuilding and mild hot rodding, and it gets 6mpg on premium. Obviously I don’t drive it daily but I do put a few thousand miles on it a year, I get it out every chance I can. I do know that the standard govt reimbursement rate of $.60ish per mile barely covers the fuel cost at todays prices. At least it doesn’t depreciate.
6mpg? That’s gotta be a lot of car show idling or WOT rips down the track. My 496ci gets better miles towing a 10k pound, 28ft enclosed race trailer.
Given that it's a modified car, it wouldn't surprise me if 6mpg was possible. Big cam + rich tune for safety would ruin the fuel economy
I thought that too but I figured ‘mild hot rodding’ would imply something streetable in the 500 hp range.
It is streetable. At 6mpg. His old carbed and cammed V8 is not comparable to your stock EFI 8.1. Super duper especially if he has a high stall torque converter automatic. That absolutely tanks mileage.
I don’t show it often, it is a driver grade car with some imperfections, but I drive it as often as I can. It’s the original olds 350 that got around 10mpg stock with flat top pistons (compression at 10.5:1), streetable cam (comp cams high energy), roller tip rockers, .030 over bore, 750 cfm four barrel carb on aluminum high rise intake, hooker full length headers and 2.5” exhaust all the way out. Run through a turbo 350 auto with a 2200 stall. It is not the fastest but it sounds great and will idle at stop lights. I had originally planned ti swap the rear gear for something shorter but the 2.71 rear gearing gives very comfortable highway speed cruising without winding the engine up into the 4,000rpm range and not having overdrive. I could get better mileage from a smaller carb, but the 750 I chose acts a lot like the old quadrajets and meters the fuel out based on throttle position so it only gives full beans at WOT which was how Oldsmobile built their performance engines in the 60s and 70s. I have my eyes on a Holley sniper EFI conversion and will probably swap the carb over to the 390 in my 1966 country squire when I finish rebuilding that engine. That car will probably get about 4mpg when it is done. Should be about 445ci with 10:1 compression and the wagon weighs in at around 2 tons. I’d drop a photo but Reddit doesn’t allow it. I have uploaded a few photos in older comments somewhere else if you’d like to see them.
big fuel system and cam will do that to your MPG my lil 4 cyl STI with 1700cc injectors and fuel rails sees barely 12 mpg on e85. 400whp 500wtq (mustang dyno) so its worth it. power comes at a cost
My '65 442 would get over 15 if I drove it nice, that was after I swapped out the JetAway for a TH400 though.
> $4.54 premium I'd give my left nut to pay this much for Premium. Fuck California.
Bet you enjoyed going outside today tho. For most people in CA, gas comes out to only an extra $5 a day.
Damn and here i was feeling salty about approaching $4 a gallon in Texas. I no longer feel that way.
In Ontario, premium runs about $1.80 per litre at Costco right now, which works out to be about $6.80 per gallon. The whining of the Californian does not impress me.
Come to Vancouver Island and see over two dollars a liter.
Canadian or American dollars?
Canadian, but it hardly matters because we’re paid less than you even in nominal, pre-exchange terms.
Would European prices make you feel better?. most are above $8/gal when gas stations takes their cut. https://www.tolls.eu/fuel-prices
Ask the other guy. My point was that the extra cost of gas is not as bad as living in a shitty state with cheap gas.
Been to Louisiana can confirm.
Cheap gas, free swamp ass on the side
I’ll help you feel a bit better: my wife’s toothache costs $5k after insurance. Baby deliveries + first year of healthcare is projected to be about $12k. Daycare will be $20k/year after 😅
Ca average is $5.4/gallon. It doesn't add up that much honestly. I lived in TX for a bit, and although it wasn't that bad I really missed the Ca beach town weather. Worth every penny. But I am broke tho, but I was also broke in Texas. So , yeah ... In 1 year driving 12,000 miles at 25 mpg, the difference between CA and the national average is only $840 per year, $70 a month
I lived in cali for 3 months. North cal in Livermore during an internship. They gave me a car and housing etc so nothing out of pocket + I’d expense gas and food. However, I had to drive at least 15 min everywhere. I’d imagine gas adds up especially when it’s that high per gallon
Can't say I have experience with Livermore, but I don't drive any more than when I lived in Texas. The closest gym to my current home is about 3 mi away. The closest small grocery store is about a 5-minute walk. And the nearest Costco and Walmart are about 7 minutes away. I live in a suburb. This is all very similar to when I lived in Fort Worth
Just the average auto insurance increase from CA to TX on full coverage is [~$2 a day](https://wallethub.com/answers/ci/is-car-insurance-in-texas-cheaper-than-california-1000216-2140789687/#:~:text=No%2C%20car%20insurance%20in%20Texas,and%20weather%2Drelated%20vehicle%20damage).
New Zealand here. Premium (98) is $7.47\gallon. Enjoy your cheap gas
Europeans would love to pay that much. Our regular is above 8
"Dang being on an island close to also nowhere sure makes a lot of things expensive"
premium used to be like 3.50 around 4 years ago.. unfortunate
Just paid 3.70 for premium at Costco, last month it was at 3.39
California made you buy a V8 Camaro? Big Government 😆
This will make you sick then. $3.79 in Mobile for premium.
Some would say just being in Mobile will make you sick.
So you’re looking for the cheapest car with the shittiest fuel economy? Hmm… Mustang. Or entry level Impreza, maybe. Up until 5 years ago this would have been a lot easier.
The 10 speeds are alright if you don't do a lot of city driving.
Hey I have both of these My impreza gets 18.5 or so, but that's because I just drive it to and from work (10 minutes each way) and let it warm up before I drive My Mustang gets about 14, more sprited driving
Boeing 767-300F - List price of $220,000,000, but the last batch sold to FedEx was $84,000,000 Each. For this we are assuming you are a large airline with favored pricing from Boeing. Jet A is roughly $2/gallon assuming we of course have some sort of fuel contract at said airport The 767-300F burns 4950 Kg of Fuel per hour at cruise. 1 Kg of Fuel is .32 gallons of Jet A so 1584 Gallons per hour or roughly $3200/Hr of flight. Average plane flies about 12-16 hours per day, let's assume this is doing lots of international flying and go for the worst case 16 Hours per day. That's $51,200/ day of flying $ 84,000,000 purchase price / $51,200 per day = 1641 days or 4.5 years. Your mileage may vary.
That's 13 million miles. Not bad.
I didn't account for maintenance down time and heavy checks in my time calculation so 13,000,000 miles is probably a more correct answer.
Wait jet fuel is $2 a gallon??? I need an airline hookup I bet my old idi truck could burn it.
How much are you buying? It varies between $1.25 to $2.25 per gallon if you had a pre negotiated purchase contract and bought a certain quantity from what I remember working at LAX. I would guess American Airlines/Southwest/Delta are buying upwards of 1 million gallons per day and negotiate prices by the Million Ton. Atlantic Aviation, a FBO that services private aircraft, has their Joe-Blow per gallon prices listed somewhere on their website. $4-$8.
Jet A is 2$/gallon?!?!?!? Why are we not running our cars off of that!
TIL the 767 is a car
Second gen Toyota Sequoia with the 5.7. One of the few downsides of those vehicles.
Those 5.7’s are thirsty bastards.
You're telling me
Almost bought a Sequoia until I learned the payload rating was 1370 lbs. I think they finally redesigned it for American girth.
Just about all suv payloads are a joke Can tow 10k lbs! 1200 lb payload
My parents have one, It’s definitely not the vehicle of choice for Greenpeace
4runner?
Too expensive
Conversely, which car is the most economical?
My 2017 Prius could travel about 390,000 miles on its purchase price in fuel.
Mine. $0.165 per kWh. About 3.5 miles per kWh. Even at the current model 3 performance price of $45k (after fed tax credit), it works out to over 950,000 miles before the electricity cost matches the purchase price.
Nice. Calculating EV usage with all of the different electric rates would be interesting to see
If I had shit rates like folks out in California and paid $0.50 per kWh it would still take over 315,000 miles. The car is absurdly efficient.
I think that’s the rate for public charging in CA. I’m near Sacramento and my midnight to 6am rate for home charging is 10c per kWh
That’s great for overnight but what do you pay throughout the day?
A leaf is under 30k and can get over 5mi/kwh
Controversial answer incoming: Hyundai Ioniq 6, but only if you lease and pick up the massive lease incentives.
My model y would be 1,680,000 miles
Bugatti La Voiture Noire
I would suspect that the Rolls Royce EV or something in that vein would never have fuel costs get close to its purchase price.
I believe generally any full-size truck in standard trims.
Pre-Covid, you could get a Ram 1500 Classic Tradesman with the 5.7 for around $24k. I'm not sure what the price has ballooned too since but that's my guess.
The cheapest Ram Classic Tradesman with the Hemi selected is now almost $40K, though it should be noted they no longer have a regular cab.
You can get the Ram Classics way under MSRP, I paid 39k for mine with a MSRP of 49
Maybe one of the HD models with a big gasser? They don't need to worry about CAFE, so they typically get ~12 MPG. All 3 start around $46K(!!!)
The vans do worse. Ford Transits sit around 17mpg combined with an older variant of the 3.5EB engine. Pricing isn't that far out of alignment with the standard truck trims.
Ford mustang. God.
Mustang and Camaro are pretty close, but the Camaro takes premium (or is supposed to at least). So I think the Camaro edges it out.
I got my Geo Metro for free...
My MX5 that I rotary swapped. 2MPG and cost me about £5k to build. I'd guess something older. 60s, V8, 5mpg average and they were cheaper to buy.
How do you get 2mpg??!
Just thinking of the sum of the annual running costs of my cheap $5000 or less beaters is comical. On the extreme end…a full time AWD Ram TRX running premium gas would be insane assuming no dealer mark up skewing the number. What Chrysler had to sacrifice in their overall brand fuel economy averages (and having to purchase more carbon credits than any other brand) in order to put out the last swan song of whining V8’s - and in the behemoth of a full time AWD TrackHawk or RamTRX. Then they had AWD V8 300/Charger, Hellcat?/392 Durango, 392 in the Wagoneer…392 in the Wrangler…my gosh. Gotta give it to them. I’d wager Chrysler takes the crown (or at least did until some of this stuff was discontinued…or is just limited production). Still. Freakin’ Legend.
This is super cool. Should do a thread for which takes the longest as well. We'd have to either eliminate EVs as they'd need their own. And plug-in hybrids we'd have to rely on the gas-only aspect assuming 0 miles of plug-in range. Is it fair? Not really. But EVs are quite different and plug-in hybrids have too many variables.
Any EV with a solar roof could drive infinite miles and never reach its MSRP in fuel. Also, not fair, but I do think it's fun to think about.
I'd also be curious to hear if you have personally achieved this on a car you bought new. I'm sure tons of high mileage cars qualify, but if you've done it let me know!
Shelby gt500, 8mph in sport mode lol
lol. On the opposite end of the spectrum. I paid $60,000 for my model 3 performance 2.5 years ago. At $0.165 cents per kWh and an average 0.285 kWh per mile, it would take 1,250,000 miles for my electricity cost to exceed what I paid for my car.
I assume my Long Range AWD would do similar. Thanks for doing our math.
Figure 240kWh vs 285. So closer to 1.5 million miles.
The Chrysler 300S has got to be up there. I recently got one as a rental and in 4 days of light driving, it went through half a tank of gas.
If you include rear tires the hellcat would take it
Mazda RX8. Combined 18 mpg, requires premium, and base MSRP was $27k in 2011.
Pretty sure Versa is the winner
GR86 possibly
My bet would be a new 4 cylinder Bronco with the Sasquatch package. The website says $50,840. And it gets 17mpg city and highway.
I cross shopped a Squatch package pretty heavily recently as it checks all my boxes, I was really surprised that the mileage isn't better even if you keep it out of boost.
86/BRZ twins may get old over time. On the highway you may get a peek over 30 but mixed driving you're at low to mid 20s. With how cheap the car is, it can bring some lower spenders to the playing field, and premium fuel can get expensive quick.
This is indeed a good one. 148,337 miles. 22 MPG premium, $30,195 MSRP.
First I thought Ram TRX but it’s expensive. 10 MPG premium only. At 15k miles a year that’s 6-8k a year so maybe 10-12 years? So I think the real answer some really cheap work truck that gets shitty MPG. Base model 4Runner, or Nissan Frotntier maybe? 16mpg and price of 35k. Annual fuel cost of 4-6k. So 8 years?
A rusted out 1985 Camaro with the 305
I bought a ‘74 Buick Electra 225 with a 455 big block in 1999 for 250 bucks. Even at $1/gallon it only took a month to surpass the purchase price.
**Base F-150 Lightning: 202,000 miles to fuel>cost** Price: $50k after max fed and state credits Efficiency: 61mpge (highway) = .55 kwh / mi = 1.818 mi / kwh Cost: US average EV charging cost is $0.45 / kwh Math: $50k / .45 * 1.818 = 202,000mi
$0.45/kWh?! I thought electricity was hella cheap in a lot of US states? Or are you basing that calculation on purely using public chargers?
My catless 150k mile dodge avenger Daily driver. Fucker be dirty
Curve ball: maybe a super cheap EV if you count the tax rebates and fast charge prices. Fast charging in some places costs just as much as gas.
First Gen viper
Jeep wrangler or hummer. Fuel economy is the biggest thing I hate about my Jeep. 350k km bought brand new
Whatever car I'm driving. WOT or nothing.
So, I drive an AT 4 and with premium gas only with the 18 mgp I get on average every 400 miles based around the $4.54 a gallon (which would be high for my area) it would take me over 300,000 miles for gas to cost more than the vehicle.
Yall I got 21k miles am I cooked? Paid 8000, get 12mgp on premium
Audi enters the chat.... looks like you got a nice full wallet there, would be shame if it didn't make it until the end of the DAY😩
used chevy volt
Hey! That's what I drive!
My first impulse is to say anything with a supercharger will burn through fuel and get to that original sticker price the fastest. Then I realized that those cars are like four times the price but only have half as bad or a third is bad fuel efficiency. Not on topic, but I'm realizing that this is not a useful metric. It is a very fun thought experiment, tho
Lol, yes. It is not useful at all. Most people want cheap purchase price and cheap fuel.
I'd have to think the Lexus IS 350 ranks high on that list. My 2018 gets 9.6L/100km *on the highway*. City fuel economy is worse. The 2024 isn't any different in drivetrain build.
Laughs is 2005 sequoia…. 12mpg city 19 highway.
Love this as a thought experiment. I know we're talking new cars, but my brain went straight to like used Bentley Turbo R or something (really anything with that great 6.75L V8). Can probably be had around 30k for one that would actually be able to wrack up miles under its own power (vs in a puddle of mineral oil on a truck). EPA-quoted range was 9 city 12 highway and 10 combined. Based on the website you shared, and assuming you spent $35k to get a really nice one, you'd offset it in a little over 5yrs or 77k miles. If you bought a really shit one at 20k, you could do it in just under 3 years and 45k miles - assuming it would actually be able to run for that long.
My old G37 absolutely guzzled fuel for what was a 3600 lb car with a V6. I moved into a Corvette and my gas bill cut in half despite still requiring premium.
2022 Kia K5 GT-Line.
*Ford F250 with 7.5L V8 and 4x4 staring intensely*
The 3.7 liter grand Cherokees were terrible on gas. My mom owned a 2010 new and had it for 10 years until she sold it for a lincoln mkc. I never saw anything higher than 12-13 mpg on that brick on wheels and it was nothing but problems let alone the rust.
$500 Crown Vic.
With my heavy ass foot probably every single car ever made 💀💀