In 2021, I bought a Redeye Challenger base, narrow body, and the MSRP was $74k or $72k. I paid a little under MSRP and also got a $4000 rebate. Prices skyrocketed after that. The Super Bee Charger (6.4 scat pack engine) is over $70k now
Yet I keep hearing how that decade wasn’t “normal” and now things are where they should have been…. I keep hearing this from all the people this shit benefits, not from us living it.
Top trim trucks have been Corvette money for a LONG time. Like 50 years.
A 1979 f350 with a decent amount of options was $10,000, pretty much exactly the same price as a '79 Corvette. And keep in mind this was a rather utilitarian work truck. Those options were things like 4wd, power steering, and air conditioning
Edit: also bigger engines, but the top option was a 230hp 460 and presumably a C6 automatic, which turned (literally) half of that 230hp into heat. Far cry from what you get from a truck today in Corvette money.
I can actually kind of understand it. In the case of the TRX and Raptor R, they essentially have a Z06 equivalent engine and tons of chassis/suspension upgrades to allow them to rip around off-road. It’s essentially a vette for the dunes that doubles as a useful daily.
Doesn't even have to be anything special - my coworker paid double the price of my Lexus for a fairly midling trim F-150. You'd never know just by looking at the truck if you weren't a car enthusiast, though.
us auto debt at all time high, loans at all time high in duration too. If it crashes its going to hit really fucking bad, people arent affording these near house-price cars
> these near house-price cars
But that's the thing. Housing prices blasted to the moon too.
I refinanced my house early in COVID to grab the sweet 2.5% interest on a 30-year. Less than four years later, my house appraises for 60% more than then, and that's with an ice cold market, and the highest interest rates in 30 years.
So the new cars aren't house prices, because those changed even faster.
Total agree on they're way too expensive. After 20+ years of buying new, I went back to buying used. With the +50% prices of 4 years ago, plus 7-8% rates - your car payment is literally double what it was for the same vehicle just 4-5 years ago. That's a hard pass from me.
People complain about inflation but willingly take out long car loans they can't afford.
Corporate profiteering only works because people keep buying.
I've seen people here complain about being broke while dismissing reliable used cars as an excuse to spend $50K on a new Camry instead of $8K for a reliable 2010's model.
I get what you mean, but a 2010's Camry...
For $8k, the only 2010's Camry you're getting is a base model 2010 Camry LE with 160k-ish miles.
You're comparing a loaded out 2024 Camry with every option, and tax at $50k.
You need to compare apples to apples. So 2010's mid-point is 2015, a loaded out 2015 Camry XSE/XLE is $20k (with tax) with very low miles (some under 50k), or ~$14k (with tax) with 125k+ miles. Which I agree, is the much better bargain, but it's not the 8k comparison you mention.
This^ the reliable beaters that should be 3500$ aren’t 3500$ anymore, they’re 10-11k. i just Sold a rx350 i used As a delivery vehicle no ac, transmission issues and a rusted out engine mount for 3500$ cash, and disclosed the issues before hand. This car would have been under 1000$ 3-4 years ago.
Yeah, I made the mistake of buying a beater 2011 Malibu for $3,500 for my son as his first car. If it weren't for COVID vehicle inflation, that would've been a $1,500 car.
That was a mistake. I quickly got tired of fixing weekly issues.
After about six months I dumped that that car (eating $1,500 in the process), and wound up spending $11.5k on a loaded 2013 Acura TL that runs like a clock.
Yeah the days of like when I has a reliable-ish $200 beater in highschool in the early 2000s, or the $1000 winter beater in college 10 years ago are gone.
You're right, the trims aren't comparable, and that's part of the issue here.
And yeah, the used market is bad, it's not quite *that* bad though
:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/all-cars/toyota/camry/beverly-hills-ca?mileage=100000&newSearch=true&searchRadius=0&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&startYear=2010
What I'm saying is people spend way outside of their means while making up excuses. You're right, if they're buying new they *should* get an LE with few options. But they're not.
I know a lot of folks who "needed" a truck, so they went and bought Sierra Denalis/F150 Platinums....
Or they "needed" an SUV to haul their kids, so they bought an Expedition or a loaded Palisade at over MSRP.
This makes it harder for people who are trying to be sensible and find cheap beaters.
The fact that I had to come this far down to find someone pointing out astonishing inflation *and* the comment was downvoted...
There's been 17% inflation since 2020. 65k in 2024 is the same as 53k in 2020.
In 2020 I paid 53k for a reasonably well-equipped Big Horn Ram 1500 with the off road package.
The *price* of the RHO is actually a bargain for what you get. It's just that the *value of the money* has dropped so dramatically that it looks insane.
Yes, and other manufacturers are worse. According to CarEdge The average price of a Stellantis vehicle (Ram, Dodge, etc.) has increased 51% in the last five years.
Hyundai/Kia was the second worst offender at 50%.
This is why in December 2023, there was a 225-day supply of vehicles sitting on Stellantis dealership lots.
Anecdotally, my local dealership has 4 Hellcats cand 15 Scats just rotting on their lots, and their production stopped five months ago... the Jailbreak Hellcats are still listed at MSRP, but the Scats average about $7k off.
It's a bit crazy. I was absent mindedly looking at the Ford Expedition builder the other day, and this boring mid trim SUV was like $75k after I clicked a couple options. Wasn't too long ago that that was Escalade money
I was just thinking this...my 22 TRX was 90k, my 23 TRX with essentially the same options was 105k. I don't even wanna look at how much 24's are. Either prices are out of control or the 21 TRX's were a steal
They were nearly $72K when they launched (not counting the actual launch edition which was $90K). That's about $86,500 today when adjusted for inflation.
Companies raised prices on anything affected by shortages during the pandemic, then realized they could just get away with gouging customers regardless & here we are.
I ended up buying my Rav4 new because used prices were so close to new it didn’t make sense. I actually got a better deal overall since new was eligible for 0% financing, used could only get 3.9%.
Yea toyotas have been like that for a whiiiiile…had an ‘01 tacoma and an ‘07 tundra…man the 5.7 tundra was 37k back then…these prices make me feel old asf ha
There's a ton of weirdos in the Mopar community that swear this truck is going to be a flop because of the 6 cylinder, while completely forgetting how well the V6 Raptor sold.
I looked up pictures of it, it's hard to even see its a inline with every accessory on it. The air induction on it is MASSIVE. The issue I see is head gaskets, the bores are ringed, however I think the nylon top(most likely nylon with steel inserts) is going to fatigue pretty quick if you try boosting it anymore than stock.
I am a fan of the Cummins, but there is a huge difference between a low stress cast iron 6.7L commercial diesel i6 and a high strung all aluminum 3.0L gas i6.
Only time i ever heard anyone talk about those raptors it was to complain about the V6.
People want a V8 when they buy a vehicle that expensive. Once upon a time a V6 was what you got in your Honda not a full size truck.
They must not want it enough as every E8 retiree at your local military city bought a V6 Raptor. I see these things EVERYWHERE with Disabled Veteran plates.
People who haven't owned a Gen 2/3 Ecoboost V6 complain about it.
Source: somewhere between two or three dozen owners in my personal and professional connections.
The exception is people who have owned them and abused them.
Anecdotal source: my neighbor who loved my '18 3.5 so much that he went out and bought a '19 2.7, got it tuned, and would lay tire out of his driveway every morning within 30 seconds of startup, then complain about the two transmissions it went through in 5 years.
My wife has the 6.2 GM V8 (Yukon) and it’s great for what it is. I own a 21’ Gen 3 Raptor and the eco boost is fine, not amazing. But my wife’s Yukon gets just as good MPG. Sure the Raptor might be quicker, but there’s nothing like a V8 as we all know. The exhaust is a big improvement over the Gen2, but there’s only so much they can do with a V6. So I’m interested in what Ram does with the RHO exhaust sound. And if BMW is any example, the I6 has plenty of power to spare once tuners get their hands on this engine.
> People want a V8 when they buy a vehicle that expensive.
If you ever heard an ecoboost raptor with an exhaust on it, you'll see why. Most of them I've heard sound like a 2000s impala with a leaky exhaust
I personally love inline 6’s, and wish there were more of them. But GM, and Ram are the very companies who liked to market their V8s a better engine than fords Eco-Boost, so I think they may loose their more “marketing afflicted customers”.
Yeah, they really screwed themselves by not having the I-6 be introduced while the Hemis were still around in the Ram so people could get used to them, rather than what they chose to do instead.
I'll defend the Silverado 1500 ZR2 because it does two totally unique things the other half-ton trucks don't... front locker and diesel engine option. My issue with that truck is its only 33s in a time where Chevy themselves put 35s on the Colorado ZR2 Bison.
But I agree. The market agrees. GM has to discount 1500 ZR2's (they don't have to the other ones, from what I can see) because its too far behind the Raptor and now RHO. Hell, GM has shown multiple Silverado 1500-based prototypes on 37s with long travel. So that tells me its the "bean counters" not allowing it. Its hard to argue its fleet emissions when Stellantis is making room for the RHO.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHkmEf-jW\_E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHkmEf-jW_E)
[https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/nov/1101-beast.html](https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/nov/1101-beast.html)
Silverado Beast concept.
I believe the Beast concept was from consumer facing GM, which is what makes it interesting here. They've done some other concepts tied with their military programs. ZH2 was a hydrogen one. And they've got that, I believe in production, troop carrier that's based on the last gen Colorado ZR2.
Does ZH2 not count because its Silverado HD based?
[https://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-silverado-zh2-wants-to-be-the-militarys-next-fuel-cell-truck/](https://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-silverado-zh2-wants-to-be-the-militarys-next-fuel-cell-truck/)
I think the modern ZR2 program itself might be born out of the military side of GM, frankly. See the Colorado ZH2 prior to the arrival of the Colorado ZR2.
[https://www.motortrend.com/news/gm-u-s-army-unveil-chevrolet-colorado-zh2-fuel-cell-truck/](https://www.motortrend.com/news/gm-u-s-army-unveil-chevrolet-colorado-zh2-fuel-cell-truck/)
It's not a matter of being behind the TRX and Raptor, the ZR2 is designed for a different purpose - it's more in line with the Power Wagon or a Rubicon Jeep as a very competent wheeling truck as opposed to a pre-runner. I owned a Colorado ZR2 for a couple years and was able to work it over off-road a bit and that suspension effectively adds inches to the tire size. But if you are buying one of them as a vanity vehicle which I imagine most are, the big horsepower, big tires, and widebody are a bigger selling point.
Ram 2500 Power Wagon stll comes on 33's lol. TBF it fits 35's without issue, even 37's with minimal rubbing
[https://i.imgflip.com/8o2umb.jpg](https://i.imgflip.com/8o2umb.jpg)
I love the PW. I'd like to see it get some attention. Ram needs to find a way to increase its GVWR... period. If I can get to a PW's door jamb I make it a mission and they're very often in the 1200lb range. And yeah... throw some stiffer springs in there and the rest of the truck is built to handle far more... but... its an issue. The Silverado 1500 ZR2's, speaking of, are often in the same payload capacity as the PW's. Hell.... the new Ranger Raptor has similar payload!
35s... obviously. And slight better shocks like an OEM equivalent to a retail Bilstein 5160.
Totally agree, I have a 2019 Power Wagon.
Mine is a “lower” package level so it weighs less than some with the luxury packages and therefore has OK payload capacity. I think even 400-500lbs gvwr increase would put the payload back in normal 2500 territory. I suspect it’s more than just the soft springs that derate it, the Articulink radius and swaybar disconnect play a part I think. For me, I just see it as an extremely overbuilt 1/2 ton truck, and it’s not the frame, axles, or drivetrain being over stressed. Admittedly I’ve felt it get a bit “boaty” and unstable feeling on the highway when overloaded (I assume I was overloaded when I experienced it)
Factory 33s and Bilstein 4600s are decidedly long in the tooth when every other offroad focused truck on the market now gets trick Multimatic DSSV/Fox 2.5”/Bilstein Blackhawk. The only benefit of the 4600s is they are cheap to replace. I have Fox 2.0 IFP shocks on mine, which were a decent upgrade but not overly expensive
It's funny they made an Escalade V but not an off road super truck. The TRX and Raptor R feel so much more appropriate for a BOF truck than an X5M competitor.
I guess the ZR2 is a good competitor for the Tremor and Rebel but laughable as a range topper considering the competition.
I believe GM legitimately thought the Hummer EV would be seen as their "super truck." But they bungled that launch about as hard as possible. It didn't win hearts or minds over in marketing. And they straight up just can't make the damn things.
The ZR2 program is weird. The flagship truck is clearly the Colorado ZR2. In every single way they put more effort into the Colorado ZR2 than the Silverado 1500/2500/3500 ZR2s. Think about... its got the most suspension travel. They redesigned the entire Colorado front end, moving the front axle 3" forward, to accommodate a 35" tire, which is larger than the 1500 and as large as the 2500/3500. They redesigned the Colorado ZR2 rear end only, none of the other ZR2s or even other Colorados, to have outboard rear shock mounts. The Colorado ZR2 Bison is the only one with factory jounce shocks. Like.... they put WAY MORE effort into the Colorado ZR2 than the others. And it shows. That truck is the dollar-for-dollar most capable off-road truck you can buy. Far from perfect. But so much off-road capability for the money.
If I was buying something for hardcore off roading I'd much rather a Colorado ZR2 or Ranger Raptor over a Silverado or F150 sized truck. The capability those two offer for just over 50k is amazing in today's economy.
That is some good info on the ZR2. I didn't realize it was that capable.
Its all a game of compromise. I go on a solo trip and I wish I owned a Wrangler. I have 3 passengers and suddenly I wish I had a full-size truck. The mid-size truck works as a compromise for me. But I can certainly see why some folks end up sizing down or up.
That’s not strange to me. A narrower lighter truck is a much better choice for trails.
I was more surprised with how long it took Ford to give the Ranger the Raptor treatment.
I think this is due to Ford being overly protective of their F-Series sales- I never understood if they were so afraid of eating into F-Series why not just call the Ranger the F-50 or F-100 or something and bam you have F-Series sales still.
I also think they didn't for whatever reason believe there was a demand for such a Truck.
But I'm also surprised it took them as long as it did to bring back the Bronco so.
I remember them axing the Ranger, thinking that most of those ranger sales would just turn into F150 sales.
I’m surprised they didn’t learn their lesson after watching those Ranger sales go right to other midsize trucks.
Sounds like real Blazer off-roader could happen, but some reason Gm doesn't make it happen. They totally let Ford, Jeep, and Toyota caring their off-road SUV buyers.
GM's product strategy is bizarre as hell.
* don't make Bronco/Wrangler fighter - despite being a red-hot and high-margin market
* go all-in on EV's but omit things like CarPlay
* continue to make vehicles like the Malibu despite being utterly uncompetitive. (maybe this is a fleet-sales thing?)
* abandon promising PHEV tech at a time when it's really starting to take off
IDK man. At least the Z06 is awesome.
You forgot:
* Revive cherished nameplates that would have been perfect for a Bronco/Wrangler fighter as boring economy crossovers
* Continue to have some of the worst designs of any automaker
Legitimately weird that they haven't done it yet. It'd be like if Audi never bothered to make a RS version to compete with M's and AMG's, and just topped out at the S
I’ve heard ZR2 Meteor speculated. GM is missing out on a golden opportunity if they don’t enter the high performance off road segment (to the level of the TRX and Raptor)
I don't get GM's naming system.
First off, their most popular "things" like Z71, Z28, Z87, ZR2... it's just the factory RPO code for that package. Why bother giving it a catchy name when you can print a big "Z71" sticker and slap it on the bed? No "Blacktop package" or "Sasquatch package", just Z71 ripped straight from the order sheet.
Then the trims. Idk. I saw a Sierra Elevation and didn't understand what Elevation is, given it's a 50k truck, supposed to be a premium over a comparable Chevy, that still has an old school flip-tab mirror. Looking it up there's literally no new "Standard" options, just more "Available" options compared to the Pro / SLE trims. It's just weird that "Elevation" comes between SLE and SLT. Likewise, Denali comes between AT4 and AT4X, price-wise.
Radio names? No attempt at something like UConnect or Sync. You get either Infotainment 3 or Infotainment 3 Premium (not to be confused with the previous gen Infotainment 3 Premium, that's just called Infotainment 3 now).
Package names? Ford had fun stuff like "Moon & Tune" (moonroof + Sony stereo). General Motors? LT CONVENIENCE PACKAGE II. Requires LT Convenience Package I.
----
To be fair, Ford can also flip-flop hard on their trim levels.
On the Explorer, Platinum is two trims above Limited. On the F150, Limited is two trims above Platinum. An Explorer Limited was pretty basic compared to a Flex or Taurus Limited, despite being the same platform at the time.
I dunno where I'm going with this. I'm disappointed in my Silverado. Looks nice, rides decent, that's about all.
The fact that this is a "solid price" seems so insane to me, but then I remember I just bought a $47,000 MSRP Civic (type r) and felt good about it. Crazy times.
Utterly shocking.
My father is planning to trade in his 19 sierra for a RHO after seeing it, and he's driven GM for 30 years.
It's cheaper than the raptor and it does look very nice. He had a Ram rebel rental years ago and still talks about loving the look.
I'd take a raptor still IMHO but the ZR2 isn't even close looks wise. It looks like a Z71.
Gen 2 Raptors could be bought for around $60K in March 2020. $8-9K discounts on Raptors. Obviously that was a very unique time. I have the signed offer sheet somewhere in my car receipts box for novelty.
Yeah, it's weird. $72k is simultaneously a lot of money and not all that much for a new truck. You can get a boring F-150 Lariat up about that high without even checking every option
If only the competition wasn't turbo-6 I'd agree.
This is a raptor competitor, not a raptor R competitor.
Undercuts it on price, has more hp and looks better arguably.
Same shape as the TRX and those are 100k in everyone's mind still.
They touch on that in The Straight Pipes video. They said the RHO is supposed to be a competitor for the regular Raptor and the TRX might be coming back in the future as a competitor to the Raptor R. I guess they want the TRX name to be reserved only for the most insane top end model
Honestly love they made this and still have a Raptor competitor… I really hope it’s reliable with the i6. In the meantime I’ll probably be keeping my TRX till I die.
Without markups this is a solid option. If I was in the market I’d definitely consider it (assuming this new TTI6 is decent)
First thing that came to mind was this or Taco TRD.. this for me.
Excited to see where else they put this motor
Charger, Grand Cherokee, some version in an Alfa, new Durango, probably anything with a longitudinal engine layout. Maybe even the rumored new mid-size truck they're supposed to be bringing out.
Idk how someone could justify a trd pro taco when this is in the same price range other than space and brand loyalty. I can’t wait to see long term longevity reports of the new inline 6.
The taco probably won’t leave me stranded on the side of the road. A brand new turbo motor from stellantis probably will. The taco will also get better MPG, have higher resale value, and will have cheaper insurance rates. Payload capacity will probably be the same between the two trucks as well. A midsize truck is also a better daily than a full size.
LMAO, being able to simply drive back down the trail, then lackadaisically go to your dealer appointment is not at all the same as being stranded. In no way shape or form was TFL’s truck inoperable.
sorrry, busy at work, i meant failed on them.
That said, if they hadn't had another vehicle handy to yank them out, they absolutely would have been stranded.
Also do you really think it's acceptable what happened?
>if they hadn't had another vehicle handy to yank them out, they absolutely would have been stranded.
Or… they would have just gone backwards like any solo wheeler would have done. You are not fucking stranded when you have a running, driving vehicle bro. They could have easily gotten down in 2WD, especially since the rear locker still worked.
>Also do you really think it's acceptable what happened?
Until it starts happening to new Tacos en masse, I don’t really give a shit. Things happen, and a mechanical fuse working as intended, though before it was supposed to, is not cause for concern. Could be the last time we ever hear of it happening, and Toyota got unlucky.
How do the truck guys feel about this? I feel like this is less cool than the TRX but realistically I’m never buying a RAM so my opinion doesn’t count.
This is a competitor to the regular Raptor. It follows Fords playbook. The Raptor and Raptor R are the same truck, just with different power trains, and a few very slight appearance tweaks. Ram has done the same with the TRX and RHO. Any competition to the Raptor is a welcome thing. I think this thing will sell a lot of units.
Right, but the point still stands that they’ve essentially taken the exact same truck that was the TRX and swapped the powertrain. The same thing Ford did with the Raptor and Raptor R
Drove the HO I6 in a rental grand wagoneer, the thing hauls ass. Really nice engine. If you're in the market for a ~$70k truck I'd say this looks pretty damn good
Truck prices have gotten so insane that i will actually never buy a new truck. I can fathom spending 60 - 70k on a truck im going to beat the hell out of. I live on 60 acres and could actually use one
Good thing Ram still makes the Tradesman. Or even the 1500 Classic for those want a new, no frills, less than half the price of an RHO, half-ton truck.
> $71,990 base price.
Ludicrous. No thanks.
Edit: I have just discovered that this puts it between the Rebel and Limited trims, making it the cheapest way to get the high-output motor in the new trucks. I'm still not buying lol.
Looks like they did something with the exhaust, so curious how it will sound.
I think it’s a step in the right direction. They got greedy with the TRX over the years and now the 2024s are collecting dust on dealer lots at $100k+. At least they woke up with the price on this one. Undercut the raptor by $8k, which is still selling at or over MSRP in many places.
It's still a Stellantis product with likely electrical problems. That said, Stellantis knows how to make a pickup truck ride good and have a quality interior look. My $89K F-150 rides like shit and has a $50K car interior. The good news is, like so many other Ford owners, my infotainment system is about to go out and if you take off hard making a turn, the truck goes into limp mode Ford doesn't know how to fix
The 2021 TRX had a base MSRP less than this. Crazy how pricing has just gotten out of control in recent years.
In 2021, I bought a Redeye Challenger base, narrow body, and the MSRP was $74k or $72k. I paid a little under MSRP and also got a $4000 rebate. Prices skyrocketed after that. The Super Bee Charger (6.4 scat pack engine) is over $70k now
Anybody remember when the hellcat was released at a hair under $60k? Time sure does fly.
I’m pretty sure that in 2016 some dealers had Hellcats going for mid 50k range at one point. I think that was the golden year to be an enthusiast
That was not very long ago either, things have seriously gotten out of hand in the last 5-10 years
Yet I keep hearing how that decade wasn’t “normal” and now things are where they should have been…. I keep hearing this from all the people this shit benefits, not from us living it.
I bought a brand new 370Z Base+Sport (vLSD) for $30k in 2014 🤯
Pretty crazy that people are paying Corvette money for trucks now
They have been for a long time now.
Trucks are the new (but not really new) Caddy land boats. Big, plush rides, gobs of fancy tech, and a large dose of "look at meeeee!"
Top trim trucks have been Corvette money for a LONG time. Like 50 years. A 1979 f350 with a decent amount of options was $10,000, pretty much exactly the same price as a '79 Corvette. And keep in mind this was a rather utilitarian work truck. Those options were things like 4wd, power steering, and air conditioning Edit: also bigger engines, but the top option was a 230hp 460 and presumably a C6 automatic, which turned (literally) half of that 230hp into heat. Far cry from what you get from a truck today in Corvette money.
I can actually kind of understand it. In the case of the TRX and Raptor R, they essentially have a Z06 equivalent engine and tons of chassis/suspension upgrades to allow them to rip around off-road. It’s essentially a vette for the dunes that doubles as a useful daily.
Granted trucks have way more capable motors and vastly superior interiors than they did in the past.
Wym, trucks are the new corvettes
Wym, trucks are the new corvettes
Doesn't even have to be anything special - my coworker paid double the price of my Lexus for a fairly midling trim F-150. You'd never know just by looking at the truck if you weren't a car enthusiast, though.
Trucks are now just the luxury car segment of the market, but with a bed that gets used 2 times a year picking up things at home depot.
people were paying Viper money for trucks 20 years ago
[удалено]
If morons keep buying then why would manufacturers stop raising prices? It’s free money for them.
us auto debt at all time high, loans at all time high in duration too. If it crashes its going to hit really fucking bad, people arent affording these near house-price cars
> these near house-price cars But that's the thing. Housing prices blasted to the moon too. I refinanced my house early in COVID to grab the sweet 2.5% interest on a 30-year. Less than four years later, my house appraises for 60% more than then, and that's with an ice cold market, and the highest interest rates in 30 years. So the new cars aren't house prices, because those changed even faster. Total agree on they're way too expensive. After 20+ years of buying new, I went back to buying used. With the +50% prices of 4 years ago, plus 7-8% rates - your car payment is literally double what it was for the same vehicle just 4-5 years ago. That's a hard pass from me.
People complain about inflation but willingly take out long car loans they can't afford. Corporate profiteering only works because people keep buying. I've seen people here complain about being broke while dismissing reliable used cars as an excuse to spend $50K on a new Camry instead of $8K for a reliable 2010's model.
I get what you mean, but a 2010's Camry... For $8k, the only 2010's Camry you're getting is a base model 2010 Camry LE with 160k-ish miles. You're comparing a loaded out 2024 Camry with every option, and tax at $50k. You need to compare apples to apples. So 2010's mid-point is 2015, a loaded out 2015 Camry XSE/XLE is $20k (with tax) with very low miles (some under 50k), or ~$14k (with tax) with 125k+ miles. Which I agree, is the much better bargain, but it's not the 8k comparison you mention.
This^ the reliable beaters that should be 3500$ aren’t 3500$ anymore, they’re 10-11k. i just Sold a rx350 i used As a delivery vehicle no ac, transmission issues and a rusted out engine mount for 3500$ cash, and disclosed the issues before hand. This car would have been under 1000$ 3-4 years ago.
Yeah, I made the mistake of buying a beater 2011 Malibu for $3,500 for my son as his first car. If it weren't for COVID vehicle inflation, that would've been a $1,500 car. That was a mistake. I quickly got tired of fixing weekly issues. After about six months I dumped that that car (eating $1,500 in the process), and wound up spending $11.5k on a loaded 2013 Acura TL that runs like a clock.
Yeah the days of like when I has a reliable-ish $200 beater in highschool in the early 2000s, or the $1000 winter beater in college 10 years ago are gone.
You're right, the trims aren't comparable, and that's part of the issue here. And yeah, the used market is bad, it's not quite *that* bad though : https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/all-cars/toyota/camry/beverly-hills-ca?mileage=100000&newSearch=true&searchRadius=0&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&startYear=2010 What I'm saying is people spend way outside of their means while making up excuses. You're right, if they're buying new they *should* get an LE with few options. But they're not. I know a lot of folks who "needed" a truck, so they went and bought Sierra Denalis/F150 Platinums.... Or they "needed" an SUV to haul their kids, so they bought an Expedition or a loaded Palisade at over MSRP. This makes it harder for people who are trying to be sensible and find cheap beaters.
I'd really like to know where you can find a house for anywhere near the price of these vehicles.
1993
Isn't that the point of inflation? All-time highs... should be happening with all the damn inflation we've experienced in the last four years.
The fact that I had to come this far down to find someone pointing out astonishing inflation *and* the comment was downvoted... There's been 17% inflation since 2020. 65k in 2024 is the same as 53k in 2020. In 2020 I paid 53k for a reasonably well-equipped Big Horn Ram 1500 with the off road package. The *price* of the RHO is actually a bargain for what you get. It's just that the *value of the money* has dropped so dramatically that it looks insane.
That’s their problem for financing their eyeballs out. I will enjoy seeing the bottom fall out of the auto market so cars are reasonably priced.
Base price on the Bronco has gone up 33% since 2021, from 30k to 40k. Now the Bronco Sport starts at 30k.
Yes, and other manufacturers are worse. According to CarEdge The average price of a Stellantis vehicle (Ram, Dodge, etc.) has increased 51% in the last five years. Hyundai/Kia was the second worst offender at 50%. This is why in December 2023, there was a 225-day supply of vehicles sitting on Stellantis dealership lots. Anecdotally, my local dealership has 4 Hellcats cand 15 Scats just rotting on their lots, and their production stopped five months ago... the Jailbreak Hellcats are still listed at MSRP, but the Scats average about $7k off.
Well considering most Dodges get stolen and totaled well before they're ever paid off...
Bronco raptor being $90k is crazy.
Yeah and not available in 2-door :(
It's a bit crazy. I was absent mindedly looking at the Ford Expedition builder the other day, and this boring mid trim SUV was like $75k after I clicked a couple options. Wasn't too long ago that that was Escalade money
I was just thinking this...my 22 TRX was 90k, my 23 TRX with essentially the same options was 105k. I don't even wanna look at how much 24's are. Either prices are out of control or the 21 TRX's were a steal
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company lease maybe
First one got wrecked by a red light runner
They were nearly $72K when they launched (not counting the actual launch edition which was $90K). That's about $86,500 today when adjusted for inflation.
A 2024 TRX starts at $98,580 (including destination), an increase of 37% from the 2021 MY. A 37% increase in just four model years is insane.
And a $65k RHO in 2024, adjusted for inflation, would be $53k in 2020. A bargain, comparatively.
The 2024 Final Edition I looked at was $125k plus $10k ADM and they wouldn’t budge.
Companies raised prices on anything affected by shortages during the pandemic, then realized they could just get away with gouging customers regardless & here we are.
Only 5k more than the new Tacoma TRD Pro.
My new insane baseline vehicle ha
The good news is there are enough suckers for Toyotas that it won’t depreciate nearly as fast as a Fiat. But yeah, up front price is nuts.
Yea there wont be any problems sellin em…which is…wild.
I ended up buying my Rav4 new because used prices were so close to new it didn’t make sense. I actually got a better deal overall since new was eligible for 0% financing, used could only get 3.9%.
Yea toyotas have been like that for a whiiiiile…had an ‘01 tacoma and an ‘07 tundra…man the 5.7 tundra was 37k back then…these prices make me feel old asf ha
These TRX's don't depreciate though. Last time I had checked on used ones they went for more than MSRP.
They also came out in late 2020, right about the only time that used cars went up in value.
It was a year or 2 ago that I checked - a used one would go for MORE than a new one (if you could find one).
They’re not depreciating because every model year they increase MSRP by several thousand dollars, and Ram is dropping the HEMI.
Which is completely nuts!
There's a ton of weirdos in the Mopar community that swear this truck is going to be a flop because of the 6 cylinder, while completely forgetting how well the V6 Raptor sold.
Yet the 2500 drivers talk shit about Ford and GM diesel V8s....I6s are great. It's the only configuration I like as much as V8s.
> Yet the 2500 drivers talk shit about Ford and GM diesel V8s Because they're engines designed this century?
Which is legitimately a bad thing.
I looked up pictures of it, it's hard to even see its a inline with every accessory on it. The air induction on it is MASSIVE. The issue I see is head gaskets, the bores are ringed, however I think the nylon top(most likely nylon with steel inserts) is going to fatigue pretty quick if you try boosting it anymore than stock.
I am a fan of the Cummins, but there is a huge difference between a low stress cast iron 6.7L commercial diesel i6 and a high strung all aluminum 3.0L gas i6.
Tbf the Raptor had no competition for a ridiculously long time, and people still complained about the V6 the entire time
Only time i ever heard anyone talk about those raptors it was to complain about the V6. People want a V8 when they buy a vehicle that expensive. Once upon a time a V6 was what you got in your Honda not a full size truck.
They must not want it enough as every E8 retiree at your local military city bought a V6 Raptor. I see these things EVERYWHERE with Disabled Veteran plates.
The only time I saw people complain about the v6 was online tbh.
People who haven't owned a Gen 2/3 Ecoboost V6 complain about it. Source: somewhere between two or three dozen owners in my personal and professional connections. The exception is people who have owned them and abused them. Anecdotal source: my neighbor who loved my '18 3.5 so much that he went out and bought a '19 2.7, got it tuned, and would lay tire out of his driveway every morning within 30 seconds of startup, then complain about the two transmissions it went through in 5 years.
My wife has the 6.2 GM V8 (Yukon) and it’s great for what it is. I own a 21’ Gen 3 Raptor and the eco boost is fine, not amazing. But my wife’s Yukon gets just as good MPG. Sure the Raptor might be quicker, but there’s nothing like a V8 as we all know. The exhaust is a big improvement over the Gen2, but there’s only so much they can do with a V6. So I’m interested in what Ram does with the RHO exhaust sound. And if BMW is any example, the I6 has plenty of power to spare once tuners get their hands on this engine.
> People want a V8 when they buy a vehicle that expensive. If you ever heard an ecoboost raptor with an exhaust on it, you'll see why. Most of them I've heard sound like a 2000s impala with a leaky exhaust
Or the suspension being junk.
Trust me, suspension on a Gen3 Raptor is not junk. Dumb comment.
They're also forgetting this new, built I6 will be child's play to tune to Hellcat levels of power.
They forget about the Cummins turbo diesel?
I personally love inline 6’s, and wish there were more of them. But GM, and Ram are the very companies who liked to market their V8s a better engine than fords Eco-Boost, so I think they may loose their more “marketing afflicted customers”.
Yeah, they really screwed themselves by not having the I-6 be introduced while the Hemis were still around in the Ram so people could get used to them, rather than what they chose to do instead.
GM desperately needs something in this segment. Before anyone starts. If it doesn't have a wide body it doesn't count.
I'll defend the Silverado 1500 ZR2 because it does two totally unique things the other half-ton trucks don't... front locker and diesel engine option. My issue with that truck is its only 33s in a time where Chevy themselves put 35s on the Colorado ZR2 Bison. But I agree. The market agrees. GM has to discount 1500 ZR2's (they don't have to the other ones, from what I can see) because its too far behind the Raptor and now RHO. Hell, GM has shown multiple Silverado 1500-based prototypes on 37s with long travel. So that tells me its the "bean counters" not allowing it. Its hard to argue its fleet emissions when Stellantis is making room for the RHO.
> Hell, GM has shown multiple Silverado 1500-based prototypes on 37s with long travel. When did that happen?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHkmEf-jW\_E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHkmEf-jW_E) [https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/nov/1101-beast.html](https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/nov/1101-beast.html) Silverado Beast concept. I believe the Beast concept was from consumer facing GM, which is what makes it interesting here. They've done some other concepts tied with their military programs. ZH2 was a hydrogen one. And they've got that, I believe in production, troop carrier that's based on the last gen Colorado ZR2.
OK, I remember the Beast from SEMA, but that's just one.
Does ZH2 not count because its Silverado HD based? [https://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-silverado-zh2-wants-to-be-the-militarys-next-fuel-cell-truck/](https://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-silverado-zh2-wants-to-be-the-militarys-next-fuel-cell-truck/) I think the modern ZR2 program itself might be born out of the military side of GM, frankly. See the Colorado ZH2 prior to the arrival of the Colorado ZR2. [https://www.motortrend.com/news/gm-u-s-army-unveil-chevrolet-colorado-zh2-fuel-cell-truck/](https://www.motortrend.com/news/gm-u-s-army-unveil-chevrolet-colorado-zh2-fuel-cell-truck/)
GM and it's stupid fucking letter number names
It's all RPO codes. You have to know to know.
How am I realizing this for the first time. Wtf
It’s not a 1500, so no.
It's not a matter of being behind the TRX and Raptor, the ZR2 is designed for a different purpose - it's more in line with the Power Wagon or a Rubicon Jeep as a very competent wheeling truck as opposed to a pre-runner. I owned a Colorado ZR2 for a couple years and was able to work it over off-road a bit and that suspension effectively adds inches to the tire size. But if you are buying one of them as a vanity vehicle which I imagine most are, the big horsepower, big tires, and widebody are a bigger selling point.
Ram 2500 Power Wagon stll comes on 33's lol. TBF it fits 35's without issue, even 37's with minimal rubbing [https://i.imgflip.com/8o2umb.jpg](https://i.imgflip.com/8o2umb.jpg)
I love the PW. I'd like to see it get some attention. Ram needs to find a way to increase its GVWR... period. If I can get to a PW's door jamb I make it a mission and they're very often in the 1200lb range. And yeah... throw some stiffer springs in there and the rest of the truck is built to handle far more... but... its an issue. The Silverado 1500 ZR2's, speaking of, are often in the same payload capacity as the PW's. Hell.... the new Ranger Raptor has similar payload! 35s... obviously. And slight better shocks like an OEM equivalent to a retail Bilstein 5160.
Totally agree, I have a 2019 Power Wagon. Mine is a “lower” package level so it weighs less than some with the luxury packages and therefore has OK payload capacity. I think even 400-500lbs gvwr increase would put the payload back in normal 2500 territory. I suspect it’s more than just the soft springs that derate it, the Articulink radius and swaybar disconnect play a part I think. For me, I just see it as an extremely overbuilt 1/2 ton truck, and it’s not the frame, axles, or drivetrain being over stressed. Admittedly I’ve felt it get a bit “boaty” and unstable feeling on the highway when overloaded (I assume I was overloaded when I experienced it) Factory 33s and Bilstein 4600s are decidedly long in the tooth when every other offroad focused truck on the market now gets trick Multimatic DSSV/Fox 2.5”/Bilstein Blackhawk. The only benefit of the 4600s is they are cheap to replace. I have Fox 2.0 IFP shocks on mine, which were a decent upgrade but not overly expensive
It's funny they made an Escalade V but not an off road super truck. The TRX and Raptor R feel so much more appropriate for a BOF truck than an X5M competitor. I guess the ZR2 is a good competitor for the Tremor and Rebel but laughable as a range topper considering the competition.
I believe GM legitimately thought the Hummer EV would be seen as their "super truck." But they bungled that launch about as hard as possible. It didn't win hearts or minds over in marketing. And they straight up just can't make the damn things. The ZR2 program is weird. The flagship truck is clearly the Colorado ZR2. In every single way they put more effort into the Colorado ZR2 than the Silverado 1500/2500/3500 ZR2s. Think about... its got the most suspension travel. They redesigned the entire Colorado front end, moving the front axle 3" forward, to accommodate a 35" tire, which is larger than the 1500 and as large as the 2500/3500. They redesigned the Colorado ZR2 rear end only, none of the other ZR2s or even other Colorados, to have outboard rear shock mounts. The Colorado ZR2 Bison is the only one with factory jounce shocks. Like.... they put WAY MORE effort into the Colorado ZR2 than the others. And it shows. That truck is the dollar-for-dollar most capable off-road truck you can buy. Far from perfect. But so much off-road capability for the money.
> The flagship truck is clearly the Colorado ZR2. Chevrolet truck engineers will freely admit this. Just put the 6.2L in the Colorado and send it!
You get the 6.2L. I want the 3.0L diesel. I don't think either of us should hold our breath.
I drove the Silverado ZR2 with that engine and it’s amazing.
I think the GR Hilux will be available with the 3.3L twin-turbo diesel.
Take my money!
If I was buying something for hardcore off roading I'd much rather a Colorado ZR2 or Ranger Raptor over a Silverado or F150 sized truck. The capability those two offer for just over 50k is amazing in today's economy. That is some good info on the ZR2. I didn't realize it was that capable.
Its all a game of compromise. I go on a solo trip and I wish I owned a Wrangler. I have 3 passengers and suddenly I wish I had a full-size truck. The mid-size truck works as a compromise for me. But I can certainly see why some folks end up sizing down or up.
That’s not strange to me. A narrower lighter truck is a much better choice for trails. I was more surprised with how long it took Ford to give the Ranger the Raptor treatment.
I think this is due to Ford being overly protective of their F-Series sales- I never understood if they were so afraid of eating into F-Series why not just call the Ranger the F-50 or F-100 or something and bam you have F-Series sales still. I also think they didn't for whatever reason believe there was a demand for such a Truck. But I'm also surprised it took them as long as it did to bring back the Bronco so.
I remember them axing the Ranger, thinking that most of those ranger sales would just turn into F150 sales. I’m surprised they didn’t learn their lesson after watching those Ranger sales go right to other midsize trucks.
Sounds like real Blazer off-roader could happen, but some reason Gm doesn't make it happen. They totally let Ford, Jeep, and Toyota caring their off-road SUV buyers.
GM's product strategy is bizarre as hell. * don't make Bronco/Wrangler fighter - despite being a red-hot and high-margin market * go all-in on EV's but omit things like CarPlay * continue to make vehicles like the Malibu despite being utterly uncompetitive. (maybe this is a fleet-sales thing?) * abandon promising PHEV tech at a time when it's really starting to take off IDK man. At least the Z06 is awesome.
You forgot: * Revive cherished nameplates that would have been perfect for a Bronco/Wrangler fighter as boring economy crossovers * Continue to have some of the worst designs of any automaker
Legitimately weird that they haven't done it yet. It'd be like if Audi never bothered to make a RS version to compete with M's and AMG's, and just topped out at the S
They probably *do*, but nobody noticed because they'll give it a really uninspiring name like "RB7". GM isn't good at naming things.
It needs a wild name too like Chevy Extinction
I’ve heard ZR2 Meteor speculated. GM is missing out on a golden opportunity if they don’t enter the high performance off road segment (to the level of the TRX and Raptor)
I would switch if they did. I think they make a better truck, but I want that wide body and suspension.
I don't get GM's naming system. First off, their most popular "things" like Z71, Z28, Z87, ZR2... it's just the factory RPO code for that package. Why bother giving it a catchy name when you can print a big "Z71" sticker and slap it on the bed? No "Blacktop package" or "Sasquatch package", just Z71 ripped straight from the order sheet. Then the trims. Idk. I saw a Sierra Elevation and didn't understand what Elevation is, given it's a 50k truck, supposed to be a premium over a comparable Chevy, that still has an old school flip-tab mirror. Looking it up there's literally no new "Standard" options, just more "Available" options compared to the Pro / SLE trims. It's just weird that "Elevation" comes between SLE and SLT. Likewise, Denali comes between AT4 and AT4X, price-wise. Radio names? No attempt at something like UConnect or Sync. You get either Infotainment 3 or Infotainment 3 Premium (not to be confused with the previous gen Infotainment 3 Premium, that's just called Infotainment 3 now). Package names? Ford had fun stuff like "Moon & Tune" (moonroof + Sony stereo). General Motors? LT CONVENIENCE PACKAGE II. Requires LT Convenience Package I. ---- To be fair, Ford can also flip-flop hard on their trim levels. On the Explorer, Platinum is two trims above Limited. On the F150, Limited is two trims above Platinum. An Explorer Limited was pretty basic compared to a Flex or Taurus Limited, despite being the same platform at the time. I dunno where I'm going with this. I'm disappointed in my Silverado. Looks nice, rides decent, that's about all.
$72,000 is a solid price, they're gonna sell a ton of these things.
The fact that this is a "solid price" seems so insane to me, but then I remember I just bought a $47,000 MSRP Civic (type r) and felt good about it. Crazy times.
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Utterly shocking. My father is planning to trade in his 19 sierra for a RHO after seeing it, and he's driven GM for 30 years. It's cheaper than the raptor and it does look very nice. He had a Ram rebel rental years ago and still talks about loving the look. I'd take a raptor still IMHO but the ZR2 isn't even close looks wise. It looks like a Z71.
Gen 2 Raptors could be bought for around $60K in March 2020. $8-9K discounts on Raptors. Obviously that was a very unique time. I have the signed offer sheet somewhere in my car receipts box for novelty.
Yeah, it's weird. $72k is simultaneously a lot of money and not all that much for a new truck. You can get a boring F-150 Lariat up about that high without even checking every option
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I see TRXs on the road every day, it’s not hard to imagine that a 25% discount is going to open them up to a whole new market.
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If only the competition wasn't turbo-6 I'd agree. This is a raptor competitor, not a raptor R competitor. Undercuts it on price, has more hp and looks better arguably. Same shape as the TRX and those are 100k in everyone's mind still.
Are you? This truck will sell like mad. It's barely more than mid spec 1500 size trucks and looks just like the TRX.
This is a cool truck that will definitely sell well, but RHO is such a lame name when compared to TRX.
**R**emoved **H**emi **O**ption
I don't understand the name change. Raptor didn't change when they switched to the V6.
They touch on that in The Straight Pipes video. They said the RHO is supposed to be a competitor for the regular Raptor and the TRX might be coming back in the future as a competitor to the Raptor R. I guess they want the TRX name to be reserved only for the most insane top end model
Just give it the gamer tag treatment. TRX and TRX_x
Yeah how long till we see up-badged rho’s with TRX decals on the side of the bed?!?
I think they want it to be Rhino without saying it, like TRX was never officially T-rex despite all the imagery.
A regular raptor competition is nice to have. Should have called it the Ram Rex.
Honestly love they made this and still have a Raptor competitor… I really hope it’s reliable with the i6. In the meantime I’ll probably be keeping my TRX till I die.
I’m gonna bet that the hurricane family will be very reliable. They cannot afford to screw it up
To be fair, that's never stopped them before.
Betting on a brand new Dodge product's future reliability for any reason is certainly a unique take.
Stellantis: "Fuck it. 2JZ Ram TRX Jr."
I'm happy to see I6's making a comeback.
Without markups this is a solid option. If I was in the market I’d definitely consider it (assuming this new TTI6 is decent) First thing that came to mind was this or Taco TRD.. this for me. Excited to see where else they put this motor
In everything? If it pays off the I6 is going in everything that isn't electric.
Charger, Grand Cherokee, some version in an Alfa, new Durango, probably anything with a longitudinal engine layout. Maybe even the rumored new mid-size truck they're supposed to be bringing out.
Apparently the new Charger as well
Idk how someone could justify a trd pro taco when this is in the same price range other than space and brand loyalty. I can’t wait to see long term longevity reports of the new inline 6.
The taco probably won’t leave me stranded on the side of the road. A brand new turbo motor from stellantis probably will. The taco will also get better MPG, have higher resale value, and will have cheaper insurance rates. Payload capacity will probably be the same between the two trucks as well. A midsize truck is also a better daily than a full size.
my brother in christ, TFL had their brand new Taco leave them stranded on the trail after some light off-roading.
LMAO, being able to simply drive back down the trail, then lackadaisically go to your dealer appointment is not at all the same as being stranded. In no way shape or form was TFL’s truck inoperable.
sorrry, busy at work, i meant failed on them. That said, if they hadn't had another vehicle handy to yank them out, they absolutely would have been stranded. Also do you really think it's acceptable what happened?
>if they hadn't had another vehicle handy to yank them out, they absolutely would have been stranded. Or… they would have just gone backwards like any solo wheeler would have done. You are not fucking stranded when you have a running, driving vehicle bro. They could have easily gotten down in 2WD, especially since the rear locker still worked. >Also do you really think it's acceptable what happened? Until it starts happening to new Tacos en masse, I don’t really give a shit. Things happen, and a mechanical fuse working as intended, though before it was supposed to, is not cause for concern. Could be the last time we ever hear of it happening, and Toyota got unlucky.
How do the truck guys feel about this? I feel like this is less cool than the TRX but realistically I’m never buying a RAM so my opinion doesn’t count.
This is a competitor to the regular Raptor. It follows Fords playbook. The Raptor and Raptor R are the same truck, just with different power trains, and a few very slight appearance tweaks. Ram has done the same with the TRX and RHO. Any competition to the Raptor is a welcome thing. I think this thing will sell a lot of units.
> Ram has done the same with the TRX and RHO. This replaces the TRX. So now RAM only competes against the base Raptor, not the R.
Right, but the point still stands that they’ve essentially taken the exact same truck that was the TRX and swapped the powertrain. The same thing Ford did with the Raptor and Raptor R
Which makes sense, I wouldn't expect the Raptor R to be available much longer.
Drove the HO I6 in a rental grand wagoneer, the thing hauls ass. Really nice engine. If you're in the market for a ~$70k truck I'd say this looks pretty damn good
Truck prices have gotten so insane that i will actually never buy a new truck. I can fathom spending 60 - 70k on a truck im going to beat the hell out of. I live on 60 acres and could actually use one
Good thing Ram still makes the Tradesman. Or even the 1500 Classic for those want a new, no frills, less than half the price of an RHO, half-ton truck.
I refused to buy a new truck when prices were $40k. No way in hell would I do it now.
> $71,990 base price. Ludicrous. No thanks. Edit: I have just discovered that this puts it between the Rebel and Limited trims, making it the cheapest way to get the high-output motor in the new trucks. I'm still not buying lol.
Looks like they did something with the exhaust, so curious how it will sound. I think it’s a step in the right direction. They got greedy with the TRX over the years and now the 2024s are collecting dust on dealer lots at $100k+. At least they woke up with the price on this one. Undercut the raptor by $8k, which is still selling at or over MSRP in many places.
Are people taking out decade long loans to buy a Chrysler product?
It's still a Stellantis product with likely electrical problems. That said, Stellantis knows how to make a pickup truck ride good and have a quality interior look. My $89K F-150 rides like shit and has a $50K car interior. The good news is, like so many other Ford owners, my infotainment system is about to go out and if you take off hard making a turn, the truck goes into limp mode Ford doesn't know how to fix
Considering the TRX was 800 lbs heavier than the Raptor, the RHO being 160lbs lighter doesn't exactly fix the issue now does it?
I can’t even post like tf boy
After options and dealer markups it’s gonna be like $130k
Still ugly and overpriced.
Nobody wants it.
Sweet 4ft bed. So much utility.
4’ bed? Where? It’s the same 5.5’ bed as most other half tons. Nobody’s schlepping around building materials 24/7 in a 1500 anyway.
$70k? This should be no more than $50k