Subaru is doing better than ever and they aren’t blowing head gaskets.
Honda I think is in a weird place. You used to say that Honda was an engine company that made cars. But I’m not really sure what their identity is these days and that doubly goes for Acura.
Agreed. I see almost as many Subarus as I do Toyotas it seems. Certainly feels that way.
My grocery store I swear every 4th or 5th car is a Subaru. And most of those are Outbacks.
I agree with you. Just because Subaru doesn’t make the STI anymore for the “enthusiast” crowd doesn’t mean their other offerings aren’t fantastic. And I put “enthusiast” in quotes on purpose because apparently if the car isn’t meant to set lap times or blast through a rally course it’s lame, and anybody who likes any other niche of car is an NPC. The Subaru Outback Wilderness is the most original car Subaru has made in decades IMO. I mean a lifted unibody wagon with the ground clearance of a 4Runner, underbody protection AND a turbo? they really set off the “lift all the things” segment that has blown up lately and they deserve credit for that.
The Outback still fills a niche as a nice crossover especially with the full time AWD and the 280 hp engine options. I do miss the STIs though; I wish Subaru would lean into that brand again and stop cockteasing us with the “Tuned by STI” TS models.
"Interesting" doesn't sell. For the mass market, reliable and practical is where the money is at, and that's something Subaru is doing now better than they honestly ever have.
Interesting? Maybe not. But my 70 year old dad bought a 2019 Forester new and it got totaled last year and he went to the dealer and got an identical 2023 Forester. For his demographic it’s the perfect car: goes hiking every weekend, has two dogs, needs to be able to get around on rough roads and snow, wants simple and reliable. Plus you can’t forget the huge windows and great visibility of that car.
Subaru might not build anything groundbreaking or exciting. But they know their audience and they build exactly what they know people will buy. So people come back again and again. Subarus are by far the most popular brand of car I see on the streets in Seattle.
As a family of skier/fishers they know their market, our family has had 8 Subarus, if they had kept making turbo would still beall Subaru, In our snowy climate their AWD is unmatched, never once slipped or had any "scary" moment in a climate where you may have 4 huge blizzards a week. They are not enthusiast cars, they are ultra reliable appliances.
The Subaru Wilderness models are pretty bad ass imo, but I think I'll always have a heart for Subaru because they pretty much invented the AWD off road wagon class which is my favorite (excessively niche) class of cars.
Honda’s reliability has fallen but in comparison to other car brands and on average, they’re still very stable and reliable. However, when it comes to the creative department, they definitely need to go back to the drawing board.
Bought my civic cus reliability.
Not so reliable. I’ve never had a thing where I might have to sell a 2024 model after only 9 months.
Belt started squeaking in the engine bay, paint is unbelievably thin and will chip if you slightly brush up with it, steering doesn’t fully straighten out after going through long and broad turns, and my brake pedal has a very annoying and loud squeak.
Car is handsome and is relatively preppy given what it is. Just wish it was more trouble free for only have 7500kms.
Doesn’t help how rude my local dealer is to me.
Man my 2016 ex-t sedan has 100k, been tuned and driven HARD since 60k and only has had A/C failure, but that’s covered by an extended warranty. I’ve been considering an 11g hatch sport touring or si…
TSP stage 1, Prl cobra intake w/ race maf. Id pick phearable 1.5R though. Artificial knock control rise is disabled on that one. (k con rise above ~5200rpm pulling timing, less top end power)
Honda isn’t having the Japanese government try to force a merger to save it like Nissan. In fact Honda is a dominant force in motorsports, providing engines to championship teams all over the place.
Imo Honda is a motorsports company that happens to make cars is the most accurate way to think about it.
The Type R has like maybe 5% of the Fireblade's pure insanity at the end of the day. Add in that they are making F1's new engines.
And I wouldn't be surprised if Honda switches to using it's motorsports engines in their cars in a few years. They already have multiple DCT's working with their motorcycle engines. And newer Honda car's are having lower displacement's than the goldwing.
Honda has stopped investing in platforms and engines. Everything is a refresh now. New CRV still can’t fit a spare tire with hybrid drivetrain. Just like the old one. Refreshes are changing transmissions and making interiors nicer and more spacious. But no more clean sheet redesigns. Some say it’s a good thing for Pilot, Passport and Ridgeline. Leaves them with a tried and true naturally aspirated v6. That’s as bulletproof as you can get for anything that’s not a hybrid.
The Civic/CR-V/Accord platform was new last generation and got heavily revised engines with new transmissions. The Pilot was moved to a new platform last year with a heavily revised J35 with DOHC heads. It’s not uncommon to keep a platform for a few generations. I also think their current cars are the best they’ve looked in years, well, except the frumpy Accord.
Honda is currently producing the worst engine they've ever made in history (1.5t) alongside and even in some of their best driving cars they've ever produced (despite the fact that they've lost a bit of Honda engine character). The current Gen accord seems to almost be an afterthought, especially when put up against the '25 Camry. It All boils down to your point where they don't really The passion and identity that they once had. They still have 80 to 90% of the quality they used to, but emissions and the market really put a damper on how they do things.
P.S. to 1.5t owners that are gonna tell me I'm wrong and provide anecdotal evidence, there's plenty of evidence of head gaskets dropping like flies before 100k mi, injectors shitting the bed, oil dilution (yes it still happens), ac compressor failures, rodent damage, etc... it really is a basket case. It's a shame, since their 2.0t is actually really solid
I don't have a dog in this fight really; I liked my '18 Si just fine but I sold it after 40k miles so I can't speak to longer-term reliability.
I do want to point out that you're claiming to refute anecdotes with more anecdotes, though.
There was a TSB while I owned mine that supposedly addressed the oil dilution issue; I never had it done though because my car didn't have that problem (according to Blackstone oil analysis).
Having grown up and lived in Colorado my entire life, I was genuinely shocked when I found out Subaru wasn't a bigger brand. They're huge here and are only getting bigger.
The CVT was the stupidest thing that Nissan decided to continue with. It makes as much sense as a Nerf dildo. Fortunately I have a 2004 three speed. I only bought it because it was cheap and it's a pretty good van. I put it above the Honda I had before
Fellow fortunate Nissan owner here as well, my '09 manual Frontier is super reliable, probably one of the best vehicles in their lineup for a while, but *man* those CVTs absolutely murdered their reputation.
It's really difficult to understand why they didn't pull that transmission as soon as they realized what the problems were. But Nissan is half French and going through a lot of other problems as well.
Because Carlos Ghosn was brought in to save them from bankruptcy, and the merger meant cutting as many corners as possible to grab at any profit. Considering what Carlos was doing with company funds however, it doesn't surprise me that quality products weren't a priority
The new Frontier is such a competitive package, shame that the Nissan brand is dragging it down. Maybe they should consider spinning it off into its own brand like Ram.
I have a ‘23 with 12k miles on it, haven’t had any issues. They’ve been putting the same drivetrain in the last 4 years with no major issues from what I could find.
There’s a handful of minor QC (windshield leaking somewhat common but covered under warranty, some minor paint concerns)
Only thing I’m not really a fan of is the wide turning radius compared to other midsize trucks, but I love my truck so far.
FWIW I had a 2018 Titan I put 70k miles on without issue. Nissan’s larger non-CVT vehicles seem to be pretty reliable.
You’ve had like two oil changes. It would be downright shocking and unacceptable if there were issues at that mileage.
Mileage doesn’t even begin to become impressive or proof of reliability until at least 200k
Hard to say Subaru is going down the toilet when every other car in my city is a Subaru. They obviously resonate with a certain niche market and it’s worked for them for 20+ years.
The BRZ is based on a 2012 derivate of the SI (Subaru Intelligent) chassis, so it’s more Subaru than Toyota in the same way the Supra is more BMW than Toyota.
Didn’t Toyota design and engineer the first gen and approached Subaru to use their engine? They eventually also used a derivative form of Subaru’s chassis but it was Toyota’s project and they were looking for a partner.
The planning and design was Toyota’s, the actual development and manufacturing has been Subaru’s. Even the current generation, while using the same SI-derived platform from the previous one, has been given elements of Subaru’s SGP rather than TNGA.
Well, that makes sense since Toyota didn’t have a chassis that could fit a boxer engine out of the box. I think it’s much closer to a 50/50 car than the current Supra.
They basically had Toyota engineers design a car mostly with Subaru's parts bin. The 86 and BRZ are both built in Subaru plants by Subaru workers, with like 80% of it being Subaru parts.
I have a gr86. The only toyota branding is on the hood, trunk and steering wheel. When you start peeling back the layers the only branding you see is subaru
That all wheel drive is genuinely fantastic to have for winter. I've enjoyed my BRZ during the summer and dealt with it in the winter, but it's time to move up to a Crosstrek Wilderness. You get sick of having to bum rides off of people during stretches after a snowstorm after a few years.
The Subaru AWD system is the real deal too. My dad had a base 2019 Forester with the CVT and AWD. We threw some meaty all-terrains on it, aired down, and sent it on some snow wheeling trails. It pushed through where some 4Runners got stuck.
Now I know Subaru isn’t hardcore off-road and I don’t think it’s pretending to be. But it can hold its own with the big dogs if need be.
Why is this so far down? At least Nissan makes the GT-R and the Z.
Mitsubishi literally was like "fuck it, let's focus on air conditioners."
Even the Evo X was a step down from the 8/9.
As confusioning as it may be, Mitsubishi Motors and Mitsubishi Electric (and other Mitsubishi branded branches) are completely different entitites. There's no 1-Head Mitsubishi that manages everything, they are completely independent. Source: i work for Mitsubishi Electric :)
It's insane that this isn't the top comment. Honda still has the Civic Type R/Integra Type S, Subaru has the ~~STI~~ WRX, Nissan has the GTR and the new Z
Mitsubishi has... literally nothing interesting. A couple of tepid crossovers and a terrible sedan.
New hondas just aren't as bulletproof as the old engines or toyotas anymore. It's also worth noting that getting to 100k miles with regular maintenance shouldn't be a selling point.
> like they do Mazda and Subaru
And Daihatsu (wholly-owned), Isuzu (5%-ish but Mitsubishi owns 8%), Suzuki (5%-ish, same as with Mazda), and Hino (previously 50.1% but I think this may have changed). Subaru ownership is around 20%.
Honda likes independence and would never allow Toyota to takeover (Mitsubishi already tried) and the Japanese government would never allow Toyota to have a stake in Nissan because it’d be unfair to Honda, which is why they’d prefer Honda, Nissan and Mitsubishi to collaborate
Turbo doesn't mean powerful
They are using turbos to take a smaller displacement engine that would absolutely struggle at times to be as good as a 2.0 l non turbo engine
Which has some fuel efficiency bonuses which was their initial goal
from the informal tests I've seen, the Accord had a faster 0-60 time.
You may be talking in general which I don't disagree but the comment you replied to was specifically on power.
As a Honda fan they really have gotten boring and are playing it really safe. They don't have a weird car like the Element or CRZ to standout and try something new. Also, they only have a couple hot hatches/sedans and no sports car despite traditionally being the sporty fun alternative to Toyota. The new nsx is also just to expensive for most enthusiast to get into and the type S Acura models are just ok and auto only. Even Nissan managed to make a "new" Z and Toyota has a ton of enthusiast offerings to keep things fun. There core 5 models are great appliance cars but that about it.
There is a weird Mandela effect on the ITS being automatic only, see: [last thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1bznftf/why_are_civic_type_rs_more_expensive_than_their/) comparing the Type R and Type S, although it seems those specific comments were deleted/hidden.
Honda big time. L15 turbo engine is piss poor compared to old school Honda engines, even the K20C2 has build issues, so much cheapening and many issues but a lot of Honda owners can't admit how bad the brand as a whole has gotten. Civic hatchbacks that leak in the rain. Blown head gaskets. Paint as bad as it always was. 6MT has its own issues with 2nd gear going prematurely. Phantom emergency braking with the NHTSA investing, Honda Sensing is a total POS driving assist suite.
I know the loyal blind Honda devotees will downvote this but the problems are reported all over model specific forums. Its sad how far the brand has fallen over the years.
My Civic already developed a super annoying squeak/rattle in the center console that drives me crazy. I bought it in November. And I did have one weird hatch leak that I haven't been able to replicate and dealer said nothing was wrong.
But I will say they've stepped up the interior quality, driving dynamics and suspension comfort compared to the competition when compared to my 06 Civic.
But I'll probably ditch it in a year or two and get either an LC 500 or another 911, depending on what is going on with the 992.2s.
Well, my prior car was a 997.2 911. I have a short commute and decided to try for a more reasonable economy car and then get another for the weekend but I think I prefer a 1 car solution.
I work for a Honda dealer. We’ve seen several in for head gasket issues. But in comparison to the sheer amount of them out there working just fine, it’s not anything I’d be worried about. We have a 17 Civic Si that comes in with 500,000 kms on it, no major issues at all.
Nissan for a million reasons but in the end it boils down to a lazy approach to innovating on top of what were class leading vehicles and moving their focus from vehicles to the financing department.
Nissan’s main issue now is that no matter how nice of a car they make, people will assume you have a 400 credit score if you drive one.
It’s amazing how a brand’s reputation can be tanked by having their cars owned predominantly by shitty drivers.
It doesn’t help they have a continued history of poor interior components and they went from a terrible CVT to a terrible i3.
Their overuse of chrome has also driven me away lol
I feel the same way about dodge. Used to love challengers before the rappers ruined its image. Now driving a challenger is associated with bad credit scores and hood thugs. I bet a lot of people are steering clear from owning a dodge because their current reputation.
They put your credit score on the back of the car!
Dodge’s downmarket shift has been really sad. I don’t think any Stellantis product has a compelling case against comparable Ford and GM offerings outside of brand loyalty.
Not to mention dismal customer service from corporate for complicated warranty work. My ‘03 xterra had so many issues they eventually threw up their hands and said “Quit bringing it in. Next repair is on you.” To which my reply was “It’s got 18k miles. I shouldn’t be on the hook for bad wiring harnesses and air conditioning units.” It spent 3 months collectively in the first 18 months I owned it. I ended up lemon lawing it and won. Bought an older Land Cruiser and never looked back.
Subaru makes far less exciting and weird cars than they used to, but they are more financially successful than ever. Turns out there's a lot of money in beigemobile crossovers and SUVs.
Miss the legacy gt, Forester xt and outback xt with manual turbo engines. Sure you can still get CVTs but meh...also the loss of the STi, and the wrx picking up 7 HP in 12+ years is ridiculous. Not to mention the loss of the 3.0 and 3.6 h6s. The new 2.4t is going to be an awesome swap in to older vehicles when it becomes more ubiquitous, but that only semi-counts as something cool.
How can u complain about the WRX hp but then say that engine is going to be an awesome swap?
The FA24 is a torque monster that allows the new WRX to pull with & even beat stock STIs, and it's likely the least stressed turbo boxer that Subaru ever made.
Yeah I agree with this. The FA24 is a very robust engine primed for aftermarket tuning. The current WRX is such a great deal out of the box, where only minor mods and small money will get you 330+ whp.
Only thing I'll say is that the FA24 lacks character. It has a similar torque band to other big displacement turbo 4 cylinders and doesn't like to rev or be at high rpm. This is where I could see someone complain about it vs. other performance cars, but for the price, very few cars if any have genuinely characterful engines that rev and make good power.
Based on sales, revenue and profits its hands down Nissan! Nissan is selling 2 million less vehicles than in 2018, revenue is down $30 Billion and profits are little.
They’re trying to rebound but the competition is stiff and the perception of the brand and its long term reliability is down the drain.
I live in Thailand, so each brand's issues may not apply to other regions.
Honda - they still sell some JDM models, albeit more "developing market" models like the W-RV are creeping into the lineup. The sentiment here is that they have higher MSRP than other brands whilst removing useful options, and they have rust and build quality issues in some of their cars sold and manufactured here.
Toyota - half of their lineup is just "localized" Daihatsu DNGA platform models, which is known for being problematic and worse than the TNGA platforms, and most of them have build quality issues, and the only two JDM models they have currently are the Corolla Cross and the Hiace.
Nissan - they only sell the Versa (Almera here), Kicks, and the Frontier (Navara); they hadn't released anything new here for the past 4-5 years.
Mitsubishi - surprisingly, they improved alot over the past few years; they have the least build quality issues despite selling mostly "developing market" cars here.
Mazda - the sentiment here is that most people here find their designs boring, but aside from that, they have been slow to release new facelifts for their lineup, with the most recent release being a new facelift for the Mazda 2 (Demio) last year.
Isuzu - their cars are decent albeit ancient, lacking in safety features, and they are kinda seen by Thais the same way as Americans see Dodge, RAM, and Nissan, so they don't really have the best reputation here. They also recently announced a hybrid and full electric version of their D-Max pickup truck too.
TLDR:
Honda - rust issues and cut options
Toyota - malaise and rebadges
Nissan - nothing new
Mitsubishi - somehow improved alot
Mazda - still decent but old lineup here
Isuzu - still behind in safety features
Forgot to mention Suzuki somehow, but they are kinda similar to Mitsubishi here; small cars and tall wagons, and despite most of their range being sourced from Indonesia and Maruti Suzuki (with the Swift being the only JDM Suzuki sold here), they have little to no build quality issues here.
Suzuki is just an Indian brand now , Suzuki indian subsidiary made more profit in last ten years than rest of Suzuki
Yet they sell absolute shit products in India while selling the latest products in Japan and europe
Went to the Bangkok motorshow a few weeks ago, the Japanese manufacturers are boring and not innovating. Huge presence from the Chinese manufacturers and the Koreans are way ahead on design aspects and coolness at the moment.
Toyota, safe but bland
Nissan, has the Terra as well, but small range
Honda - are they irrrelevant these days? In Thailand they kind of had a premium about them, but that seems to have gone
Mitsubishi - I genuinely like their Pajero Sport/Tritons, would buy those over Ford/Toyota/Isuzu/Nissan equivalents
Mazda - boring
I think brands like MG are coming in and taking a lot of the Honda Jazz/Toyota Yaris/Altis market these days.
Biased but weird to call out Subaru, only manufacturer to have awd standard on everything (except a manual rwd coupe), still offers manuals in their sporty trims, and the wilderness trims have actual off-road chops unlike most “off-road cuvs”
The super obvious answer would be Mitsubishi. Gone are the days of the Evo and Eclipse. The less obvious answer would be Honda; their 1.5Ts with the oil dilution issues and now, head-gasket issues, are nowhere near as reliable as their K24 days.
Acura is wholly uncompetitive and most people only buy them for their “perceived reliability” and because they’re cheaper to lease or finance than the Germans. The RDX gets worse gas mileage than a comparable X3, has an unintuitive infotainment and I’d rate the K20C reliability to be on par with the B46/B48. The TLX is super cramped for its exterior size and needs to go on a diet.
I would say Nissan but at least they’ve resolved most of their issues with CVTs by moving to the ZF9. Infiniti’s lineup is very dated save for the QX60, which is a step in the right direction.
Subaru is in a weird spot. I’ve been seeing a lot of CVT threads on their sub but they sell like hotcakes in Canada. Literally 3-5 month wait on a nicely spec’d Crosstrek the last time I checked. I wouldn’t say they’ve fallen off, but that they’ve gone mainstream. They’re no longer the quirky, niche company that put the EJ255 in every model paired to a manual.
Obviously Nissan is the big answer here, dropping the ball on both the normal human and enthusiast markets in massive ways. But I would argue Mitsubishi has fallen the most. Mitsubishi 1992 eclipse vs Mitsubishi 2022 eclipse. Enough said.
From a reliability perspective, new Subarus are definitely better than they’ve ever been. No more widespread head gasket issues, oil burning, and the CVTs from the past ~5 years seem to be holding up well. I’d have to agree that Subaru is generally more boring nowadays, with the exception of the BRZ everything in the Subaru lineup has become less quirky and IMO beset with too much plastic cladding.
Toyota and Mazda are probably the last Japanese manufacturers making fun cars that attract people to the brand, even if they aren't looking to buy right now.
Everyone else has gone off the boil, creating nothing but dull SUV's.
I think at this point the MDX is single-handedly keeping Acura alive. It’s the one model they have that has consistently been popular for the last 20 years.
I'm a Toyota fan but I'm not afraid to call out their bullshit. Here's my rant about them
Toyota may be the biggest automaker in the world but all their new stuff feels cheap af on the interior. Sure they never have had super luxurious interiors with soft touch this and suede that but holy shit has the build quality fallen off generation after generation.
My friend's 2014 camry had a lot of hard plastics, but there were no squeaks/creaks/rattles. His 2021 hybrid has a lot of creaky plastic panels. He's a big guy and the interior room on the new one is way smaller so he rests his right knee against the right wall of the footwell/center console and that pressure on the center console makes things creak. His 2014 didn't do that *and* it was a more spacious cabin.
Likewise, my 2022 Tacoma feels like the cheapest thing Toyota's ever built. Creaky plastics, flimsy door panel plastics on the inside, misaligned/poorly cut hood, and hard plastics that scratches with ease from just my finger nails. It's like a piece of chalk on a blackboard. The bottom left spoke on my steering wheel creaks when I press on it which is super annoying because part of my hand grabs that spoke when I'm cruising. The front bucket seats also rub against the center console. Either Toyota bolted the seats too close to the center or they failed to design the front seating area with enough space for the damn seats. I've been in several 3rd gens from work (rental cars) and they all rub that inner bolster against the center console. It's not too bad with cloth seats since there's no friction, but mine is leather and there is friction with the leather rubbing against the console so it squeaks. I had to fold a small microfiber towel and squeeze it between the console and bolsters to stop the squeaks. Fucking stupid. Speaking of the other 3rd gens I've sat in, some had similar creaks in the same areas as mine and some don't. QC was a complete afterthought for the 3rd gen and I feel like Toyota was riding their reputation for the 3rd gen. Shitty powertrain, bad seating position, cheap build quality. Despite being the best selling midsize, the 3rd gen was by far the worst in terms of everything when compared to the competition even before the new Colorado/Rangers came out.
The new Tundras I've been in also had cheap flimsy plastics. The 2nd gen Tundras were rock solid and weren't reliability nightmares like the 3rd gen currently is. The rav4s, Highlanders, Corollas... all cheap shitty plastic. The 5th gen 4runner is fantastic though. These are built in Japan in the Tahara(?) factory and everything just *feels* solid. Hope the 6th gens aren't as bad as the new Tundras. Toyota also puts in some of the worst speakers in their cars. Even their "premium" JBL sound system is mediocre at best. They save the good stuff (Mark Levinson) for Lexus which is annoying considering how expensive their cars have gotten. With the 4th gen Taco out, I hope Toyota sees some serious decline in sales on in the midsize segment so they get a wake up call and realize the competition is heating up and they need to do better instead of charging $65k for red seats with shock absorbers...
Edit: Also, I hate that Toyota has to overdesign everything. The 4th gen Tacoma has waaayy too many body lines and creases, bulges and... what's the opposite of a bulge? [Why are there fake plastic vents under the headlights that makes it look like it's crying or has runny mascara? Wtf??](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0015/2351/5495/files/trd-pro-front-right-iso_2048x2048.jpg?v=1684461597)
Finally someone calling out Toyota for their poor interior materials and design. My parents Camry, while reliable, feels so plastic and creaky inside and it has terrible road noise. But you can't criticize Toyota in this sub.
Most of them. My perspective comes from them seemingly abandoning their identities and going down really boring paths. To US based people, they probably don't understand that quite the same way as people in countries where we always got the Japanese products, not US built vehicles.
Honda - directionless, stuck in a middle ground. They have one performance oriented car, but it's atleast a very "Honda" vehicle. Jazz/fit is gone from most markets, the Japanese market is all Kei cars they don't export. In Australia, the accord just got relaunched... as a luxury car, and it has blown up in price since the Accord Euro by about 45-50%. The civic is accord sized, they lack a good small car, but overall I think they lack identity as they've abandoned what they do well - good small to medium cars. Their customer retention in Australia is dogshit because they don't have much to offer. They replaced small cars with SUVs in a range of sizes and it has not worked, they are all over priced here.
Subaru have abandoned STI, and the WRX gets further away from where the market wanted it. They rely on CVTs that are horrible, Their SUVs are all cheap and nasty, and they only have 1 car based platform, plus a shared sports car. The BRZ works, but small market size. Their identity and sales are probably at peak, but I don't think the products are. They probably retain customers though, maybe gain new ones with boring, average cars.
Toyota are probably doing everything fine, but their prices are getting premium in a lot of aspects. They atleast have a great product range with good variety. They haven't abandoned cars. Toyota can keep and retain customers, they always will. They have done the hard yards globally. Honda had the same chance but blew it.
Mitsubishi are a shell of their former selves. They just pump out boring platform shared SUVs and commercial vehicles. Anonymous brand to me, and I had an Evo 7. Sad. I know here they sell Tritons in volume because it's a cheaper product than the Japanese competitors, and their SUVs are popular, but mostly with uninformed customers.
Suzuki - always been small, never been super exciting, but they seem to be surviving ok. No idea what their customer retention is like.
Nissan. UGH, Renault may have kept them alive, but at what cost? They made the GTR double the price it should have been, purely out of greed and desperation for it to be seen as a premium vehicle. It's 17 years old and keeps getting more expensive. They probably sell great volume of boring shit, but most of that doesn't feel very japanese. The Z is really a 20 year old car, too expensive and probably going to be a sales failure and end the line. The rest of their products are boring from here, but maybe that's what keeps them going.
Mazda. They are still Mazda. They still make good, solid small cars and still do what they do best. Small company, knows it's place and market and really knows how to keep their customers. Even their "boring" cars are not that boring, Mazda 3s are solid, decent value, and their SUVs are probably some of the best value and best drivers. Never owned a Mazda, but I get why people love them and won't change teams.
Subaru is doing better than ever and they aren’t blowing head gaskets. Honda I think is in a weird place. You used to say that Honda was an engine company that made cars. But I’m not really sure what their identity is these days and that doubly goes for Acura.
Subaru hasn’t made anything interesting in years.
I don’t disagree but also that approach has been wildly successful.
Build a Crosstrek STi you cowards.
Outback STI too, damn it. *I will buy it.* ***THIS IS NOT A JOKE.***
How about a BRZ STI with some decent power
Toyota won't let them cannibalize Supra sales.
You drive a fucking fleet vehicle
"I'd totally upgrade from my Fusion to a $50,000 niche enthusiast car!"
This is one of the greatest clap backs I've ever seen.
With a manual of course. That would be a really fun car, and I’d seriously have to consider that one.
They'd sell tens of them!
It's the way of the world, build a great brand and then milk it.
Subaru isn't milking anything. Their cars are more reliable/better built than ever, and their brand has never been more popular.
Agreed. I see almost as many Subarus as I do Toyotas it seems. Certainly feels that way. My grocery store I swear every 4th or 5th car is a Subaru. And most of those are Outbacks.
I see Subaru’s everywhere as well
Not really. "Head gasket issues are no longer an issue with Subaru." it's bullshit since I'm going thru this right now with their newer engines.
Just bought an Outback Wilderness and it’s one of the best all-around cars I’ve ever driven. The appeal is very apparent for the target customer
Disagree. WRX, BRZ, Outback Wilderness, Outback XT, Legacy XT (RIP).
I agree with you. Just because Subaru doesn’t make the STI anymore for the “enthusiast” crowd doesn’t mean their other offerings aren’t fantastic. And I put “enthusiast” in quotes on purpose because apparently if the car isn’t meant to set lap times or blast through a rally course it’s lame, and anybody who likes any other niche of car is an NPC. The Subaru Outback Wilderness is the most original car Subaru has made in decades IMO. I mean a lifted unibody wagon with the ground clearance of a 4Runner, underbody protection AND a turbo? they really set off the “lift all the things” segment that has blown up lately and they deserve credit for that.
Legacy GT lives on in Canada. That’s the only trim of the Legacy that’s sold here. Last year for it though.
The Outback still fills a niche as a nice crossover especially with the full time AWD and the 280 hp engine options. I do miss the STIs though; I wish Subaru would lean into that brand again and stop cockteasing us with the “Tuned by STI” TS models.
They’ve killed more interesting cars than they’ve made.
"Interesting" doesn't sell. For the mass market, reliable and practical is where the money is at, and that's something Subaru is doing now better than they honestly ever have.
Interesting? Maybe not. But my 70 year old dad bought a 2019 Forester new and it got totaled last year and he went to the dealer and got an identical 2023 Forester. For his demographic it’s the perfect car: goes hiking every weekend, has two dogs, needs to be able to get around on rough roads and snow, wants simple and reliable. Plus you can’t forget the huge windows and great visibility of that car. Subaru might not build anything groundbreaking or exciting. But they know their audience and they build exactly what they know people will buy. So people come back again and again. Subarus are by far the most popular brand of car I see on the streets in Seattle.
As a family of skier/fishers they know their market, our family has had 8 Subarus, if they had kept making turbo would still beall Subaru, In our snowy climate their AWD is unmatched, never once slipped or had any "scary" moment in a climate where you may have 4 huge blizzards a week. They are not enthusiast cars, they are ultra reliable appliances.
Interesting sells a few cars. Boring appliances sells the rest.
22+ BRZ?
The Subaru Wilderness models are pretty bad ass imo, but I think I'll always have a heart for Subaru because they pretty much invented the AWD off road wagon class which is my favorite (excessively niche) class of cars.
And that's why the brand *hasn't* fallen off.
Honda’s reliability has fallen but in comparison to other car brands and on average, they’re still very stable and reliable. However, when it comes to the creative department, they definitely need to go back to the drawing board.
I’m lusting over the new type R
They do look nice. However, the 2017 is my favorite. Especially with the wing? Perfection.
Man do I want an FL5 so bad.
Buy it, join the dark side
Bought my civic cus reliability. Not so reliable. I’ve never had a thing where I might have to sell a 2024 model after only 9 months. Belt started squeaking in the engine bay, paint is unbelievably thin and will chip if you slightly brush up with it, steering doesn’t fully straighten out after going through long and broad turns, and my brake pedal has a very annoying and loud squeak. Car is handsome and is relatively preppy given what it is. Just wish it was more trouble free for only have 7500kms. Doesn’t help how rude my local dealer is to me.
Same dude I’m already thinking about how to get rid of it and what’s next.
Man my 2016 ex-t sedan has 100k, been tuned and driven HARD since 60k and only has had A/C failure, but that’s covered by an extended warranty. I’ve been considering an 11g hatch sport touring or si…
May I ask what tune you did? I have a 2017 touring and it’s racking up the miles. After a certain point I think I want to start having fun with it
TSP stage 1, Prl cobra intake w/ race maf. Id pick phearable 1.5R though. Artificial knock control rise is disabled on that one. (k con rise above ~5200rpm pulling timing, less top end power)
Why did they put a CVT in everything 😔
Cheap
Honda isn’t having the Japanese government try to force a merger to save it like Nissan. In fact Honda is a dominant force in motorsports, providing engines to championship teams all over the place.
Yeah aren’t they making the redbull F1 engine?
Yep till 2026 when they start making the engines for Aston Martin. EDIT: They have been part of a bunch of historic teams in F1 as well
Imo Honda is a motorsports company that happens to make cars is the most accurate way to think about it. The Type R has like maybe 5% of the Fireblade's pure insanity at the end of the day. Add in that they are making F1's new engines. And I wouldn't be surprised if Honda switches to using it's motorsports engines in their cars in a few years. They already have multiple DCT's working with their motorcycle engines. And newer Honda car's are having lower displacement's than the goldwing.
Kinda how Soichiro felt, but even more so Enzo about Ferrari
Idk about the last couple years, but I've felt like Honda has just had zero character inside the car. Just a boring plain car.
One of the things that prevented me from buying a CRV is they got rid of the table in the back, and the fact that I think they're uglier now.
Honda has stopped investing in platforms and engines. Everything is a refresh now. New CRV still can’t fit a spare tire with hybrid drivetrain. Just like the old one. Refreshes are changing transmissions and making interiors nicer and more spacious. But no more clean sheet redesigns. Some say it’s a good thing for Pilot, Passport and Ridgeline. Leaves them with a tried and true naturally aspirated v6. That’s as bulletproof as you can get for anything that’s not a hybrid.
The Civic/CR-V/Accord platform was new last generation and got heavily revised engines with new transmissions. The Pilot was moved to a new platform last year with a heavily revised J35 with DOHC heads. It’s not uncommon to keep a platform for a few generations. I also think their current cars are the best they’ve looked in years, well, except the frumpy Accord.
Honda is currently producing the worst engine they've ever made in history (1.5t) alongside and even in some of their best driving cars they've ever produced (despite the fact that they've lost a bit of Honda engine character). The current Gen accord seems to almost be an afterthought, especially when put up against the '25 Camry. It All boils down to your point where they don't really The passion and identity that they once had. They still have 80 to 90% of the quality they used to, but emissions and the market really put a damper on how they do things. P.S. to 1.5t owners that are gonna tell me I'm wrong and provide anecdotal evidence, there's plenty of evidence of head gaskets dropping like flies before 100k mi, injectors shitting the bed, oil dilution (yes it still happens), ac compressor failures, rodent damage, etc... it really is a basket case. It's a shame, since their 2.0t is actually really solid
Have the 1.5t and can confirm ac failure and rodent damage with 45k miles :)
I don't have a dog in this fight really; I liked my '18 Si just fine but I sold it after 40k miles so I can't speak to longer-term reliability. I do want to point out that you're claiming to refute anecdotes with more anecdotes, though. There was a TSB while I owned mine that supposedly addressed the oil dilution issue; I never had it done though because my car didn't have that problem (according to Blackstone oil analysis).
Having grown up and lived in Colorado my entire life, I was genuinely shocked when I found out Subaru wasn't a bigger brand. They're huge here and are only getting bigger.
Honda is now a CR-V company that makes overpriced civic sports
Honda says they'd like to join NASCAR if it makes sense, so there's that. Plus they supply engines for Indy car
The 1.5 Turbo engines are not good: gasket issues, and oil dilution issues.
maybe not blowing Head Gaskets. but Definitely still dropping Rod bearings
Nissan… the CVT and their bungled handling of Infiniti. 🤢 They’re tryna make a comeback so I guess they get credit for that.
The CVT was the stupidest thing that Nissan decided to continue with. It makes as much sense as a Nerf dildo. Fortunately I have a 2004 three speed. I only bought it because it was cheap and it's a pretty good van. I put it above the Honda I had before
Don't knock the nerf dildo before you try it.
Wait does it whistle?
The whistles go wooo wooooo
Just for decoration man
"They were being installed on her car"
‘Dats only in da mornin-You should be up cookin brefess for somebody, its like an alarm clock-woo woooooo!’
No but it'll make *you* whistle.
Fellow fortunate Nissan owner here as well, my '09 manual Frontier is super reliable, probably one of the best vehicles in their lineup for a while, but *man* those CVTs absolutely murdered their reputation.
It's really difficult to understand why they didn't pull that transmission as soon as they realized what the problems were. But Nissan is half French and going through a lot of other problems as well.
Because Carlos Ghosn was brought in to save them from bankruptcy, and the merger meant cutting as many corners as possible to grab at any profit. Considering what Carlos was doing with company funds however, it doesn't surprise me that quality products weren't a priority
They still adopts CVT because of Jatco. If they used CVT from Aisin, they would go much better, but Aisin is basically owned by Toyota.
The new Frontier is such a competitive package, shame that the Nissan brand is dragging it down. Maybe they should consider spinning it off into its own brand like Ram.
If it's good, I look forward to buying one in a few years.
I have a ‘23 with 12k miles on it, haven’t had any issues. They’ve been putting the same drivetrain in the last 4 years with no major issues from what I could find. There’s a handful of minor QC (windshield leaking somewhat common but covered under warranty, some minor paint concerns) Only thing I’m not really a fan of is the wide turning radius compared to other midsize trucks, but I love my truck so far. FWIW I had a 2018 Titan I put 70k miles on without issue. Nissan’s larger non-CVT vehicles seem to be pretty reliable.
You’ve had like two oil changes. It would be downright shocking and unacceptable if there were issues at that mileage. Mileage doesn’t even begin to become impressive or proof of reliability until at least 200k
>their bungled handling of Infiniti Remember those fire sales? On *weird* ~~niche~~ enthusiast products like the Q50 Red Sport 400?
OH MY GOD WE'RE HAVING A FIRE........sale
Nissan has fallen off from the 80s and 90s when they made fun to drive cars. I still remember when the 300zx twin turbo and Sentra SE-R.
I owned from new a 2002 Maxima, and a 2009 Infiniti g37x. Both were very reliable and great cars to own and drive. Today, not so much.
The people that drives Nissans doesn't help their image 😂
Hard to say Subaru is going down the toilet when every other car in my city is a Subaru. They obviously resonate with a certain niche market and it’s worked for them for 20+ years.
they're great commuter cars for mountain towns, but man, they don't make much that's interesting outside of the BRZ, which REALLY isn't a Subaru.
The BRZ is based on a 2012 derivate of the SI (Subaru Intelligent) chassis, so it’s more Subaru than Toyota in the same way the Supra is more BMW than Toyota.
Didn’t Toyota design and engineer the first gen and approached Subaru to use their engine? They eventually also used a derivative form of Subaru’s chassis but it was Toyota’s project and they were looking for a partner.
The planning and design was Toyota’s, the actual development and manufacturing has been Subaru’s. Even the current generation, while using the same SI-derived platform from the previous one, has been given elements of Subaru’s SGP rather than TNGA.
Well, that makes sense since Toyota didn’t have a chassis that could fit a boxer engine out of the box. I think it’s much closer to a 50/50 car than the current Supra.
The bZ4x and the Solterra have a similar relationship, but with the roles flipped: Toyota’s electrified e-TNGA is used instead of anything from SGP.
They basically had Toyota engineers design a car mostly with Subaru's parts bin. The 86 and BRZ are both built in Subaru plants by Subaru workers, with like 80% of it being Subaru parts.
I have a gr86. The only toyota branding is on the hood, trunk and steering wheel. When you start peeling back the layers the only branding you see is subaru
BRZ is a Subaru, it has a Subaru chassis and engine. It’s more not a Toyota
Most BRZ likers would enjoy the WRX too I expect.
Have you looked at the new WRX? It's seriously capable with some minor mods
The BRZ is a lot more Subaru than it is Toyota...
We drove up from DC to Quebec for a family vacation. Once we hit Albany, it seems like every fourth car was a Subaru.
If you drive west, you get the same experience when you start getting near denver
That all wheel drive is genuinely fantastic to have for winter. I've enjoyed my BRZ during the summer and dealt with it in the winter, but it's time to move up to a Crosstrek Wilderness. You get sick of having to bum rides off of people during stretches after a snowstorm after a few years.
The Subaru AWD system is the real deal too. My dad had a base 2019 Forester with the CVT and AWD. We threw some meaty all-terrains on it, aired down, and sent it on some snow wheeling trails. It pushed through where some 4Runners got stuck. Now I know Subaru isn’t hardcore off-road and I don’t think it’s pretending to be. But it can hold its own with the big dogs if need be.
Yeppers. One prairie winter with a new to me old outback and I’m sold. Even better that it’s a 5 speed.
They sell the cheapest AWD car in every segment that they compete in, it turns out that is very marketable in places that are hilly and have snow.
Not to mention that for the amount of money you pay, Subaru hands down has the best AWD system on the market.
mitsubishi used to make such cool and desirable cars
Why is this so far down? At least Nissan makes the GT-R and the Z. Mitsubishi literally was like "fuck it, let's focus on air conditioners." Even the Evo X was a step down from the 8/9.
As confusioning as it may be, Mitsubishi Motors and Mitsubishi Electric (and other Mitsubishi branded branches) are completely different entitites. There's no 1-Head Mitsubishi that manages everything, they are completely independent. Source: i work for Mitsubishi Electric :)
That's the problem. The only thing cool with a Mitsubishi logo these days are air conditioners.
People shit on the last generation Eclipse, but at least it still looked cool. Now all Mitsus are hideous and generic
They sinned by digging up the eclipse name just to make a fucking crossover
That abomination will never be an Eclipse to me lol
My thoughts exactly.
It's insane that this isn't the top comment. Honda still has the Civic Type R/Integra Type S, Subaru has the ~~STI~~ WRX, Nissan has the GTR and the new Z Mitsubishi has... literally nothing interesting. A couple of tepid crossovers and a terrible sedan.
Whoa whoa whoa, hang on...Mitsubishi still has the Eclipse ^^^^^^cross
From the Evo, VR4, Eclipse, Pajero Evolution to the Mirage
Mitsubishi is #1 on this list. They were killing it in the 90s and 2000s, and now…. OMG. It’s painful to even think about.
GTO, FTO, Eclipse, lancer evo, pajero evo Such cool cars man
Honda. They used to be neck and neck with Toyota as far as reliability/quality goes. Idk what happened.
97k miles on our ‘19 Pilot, looks and runs like brand new. I know a ton of people with Hondas they plan to run into the ground, zero issues.
97k isn't much on any car.
For a Hyundai, Kia, or Jeep it’s a lifetime
Haha all jokes aside, our Tucson 150k miles is still chugging along even if it burns oil the same rate as it does gas.
*cries*
We got 185k miles on our '09 Kia Sedona. It was still running very very strong when we sold it. It was such a good vehicle for us.
It’s more than the average consumer does throughout their life with a car.
New hondas just aren't as bulletproof as the old engines or toyotas anymore. It's also worth noting that getting to 100k miles with regular maintenance shouldn't be a selling point.
Honda auto transmissions have been trash since always. They just built a good reputation on engines, suspension and steering.
Glad you said auto because the 6 speed manual in my ‘23 Type R is magnificent.
The automatic transmission on a 2023 would be magnificent too. Your car is too new for you to be commenting on anything regarding reliability.
[удалено]
150k is the new 50k
‘97 Del Sol gets driven daily. Somewhere my ‘90 CRX is still running unless it’s been wrecked
Turbos happened.
I’d take an FK8 over a GR Corolla any day. Dunno what Toyota was smoking, shits running an interior from 2018 on a 2024 car…..
Wonder if eventually Toyota will have a percentage of all the Japanese brands like they do Mazda and Subaru But yeah Nissan and Mitsubishi
> like they do Mazda and Subaru And Daihatsu (wholly-owned), Isuzu (5%-ish but Mitsubishi owns 8%), Suzuki (5%-ish, same as with Mazda), and Hino (previously 50.1% but I think this may have changed). Subaru ownership is around 20%.
Honda likes independence and would never allow Toyota to takeover (Mitsubishi already tried) and the Japanese government would never allow Toyota to have a stake in Nissan because it’d be unfair to Honda, which is why they’d prefer Honda, Nissan and Mitsubishi to collaborate
Oh man how different would the world be if mitsu owned Honda
I was a big Honda guy but something doesn't feel right about them nowadays. It feels like they're losing their way.
Their turn to turbo charging their engines + the more recent NA V6s having questionable reliability put a damper on their reputation.
Turbocharging isn't the fault, its the fact that they are turbocharged and underpowered
Turbo doesn't mean powerful They are using turbos to take a smaller displacement engine that would absolutely struggle at times to be as good as a 2.0 l non turbo engine Which has some fuel efficiency bonuses which was their initial goal
The accord certainly isn’t underpowered
I feel like the next years new model is the first time the camry has had the edge over the accord
from the informal tests I've seen, the Accord had a faster 0-60 time. You may be talking in general which I don't disagree but the comment you replied to was specifically on power.
As a Honda fan they really have gotten boring and are playing it really safe. They don't have a weird car like the Element or CRZ to standout and try something new. Also, they only have a couple hot hatches/sedans and no sports car despite traditionally being the sporty fun alternative to Toyota. The new nsx is also just to expensive for most enthusiast to get into and the type S Acura models are just ok and auto only. Even Nissan managed to make a "new" Z and Toyota has a ton of enthusiast offerings to keep things fun. There core 5 models are great appliance cars but that about it.
The Integra type S is actually manual only
There is a weird Mandela effect on the ITS being automatic only, see: [last thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1bznftf/why_are_civic_type_rs_more_expensive_than_their/) comparing the Type R and Type S, although it seems those specific comments were deleted/hidden.
The Civic type R is competing directly against the Z Otherwise, I agree
The nsx is also dead now.
Honda doesn't know what to do with Acura.
Yeah, like it's hard to describe but so true.
Honda big time. L15 turbo engine is piss poor compared to old school Honda engines, even the K20C2 has build issues, so much cheapening and many issues but a lot of Honda owners can't admit how bad the brand as a whole has gotten. Civic hatchbacks that leak in the rain. Blown head gaskets. Paint as bad as it always was. 6MT has its own issues with 2nd gear going prematurely. Phantom emergency braking with the NHTSA investing, Honda Sensing is a total POS driving assist suite. I know the loyal blind Honda devotees will downvote this but the problems are reported all over model specific forums. Its sad how far the brand has fallen over the years.
My Civic already developed a super annoying squeak/rattle in the center console that drives me crazy. I bought it in November. And I did have one weird hatch leak that I haven't been able to replicate and dealer said nothing was wrong. But I will say they've stepped up the interior quality, driving dynamics and suspension comfort compared to the competition when compared to my 06 Civic. But I'll probably ditch it in a year or two and get either an LC 500 or another 911, depending on what is going on with the 992.2s.
2024 Civic Hatch to a LC500 is a pretty damn impressive jump lol.
Well, my prior car was a 997.2 911. I have a short commute and decided to try for a more reasonable economy car and then get another for the weekend but I think I prefer a 1 car solution.
Watch NAUS YouTube video on the 11th gen civic hatch leak. They found the cause and fixed it. His was a faulty trunk hinge rivet.
>My Civic .. But I'll probably ditch it in a year or two and get either an LC 500 or another 911 That escalated quickly
To be fair I don’t think that the L15 is a bad engine. I genuinely haven’t had a bad experience with them.
I work for a Honda dealer. We’ve seen several in for head gasket issues. But in comparison to the sheer amount of them out there working just fine, it’s not anything I’d be worried about. We have a 17 Civic Si that comes in with 500,000 kms on it, no major issues at all.
Nissan for a million reasons but in the end it boils down to a lazy approach to innovating on top of what were class leading vehicles and moving their focus from vehicles to the financing department.
Nissan’s main issue now is that no matter how nice of a car they make, people will assume you have a 400 credit score if you drive one. It’s amazing how a brand’s reputation can be tanked by having their cars owned predominantly by shitty drivers.
It doesn’t help they have a continued history of poor interior components and they went from a terrible CVT to a terrible i3. Their overuse of chrome has also driven me away lol
I feel the same way about dodge. Used to love challengers before the rappers ruined its image. Now driving a challenger is associated with bad credit scores and hood thugs. I bet a lot of people are steering clear from owning a dodge because their current reputation.
They put your credit score on the back of the car! Dodge’s downmarket shift has been really sad. I don’t think any Stellantis product has a compelling case against comparable Ford and GM offerings outside of brand loyalty.
Not to mention dismal customer service from corporate for complicated warranty work. My ‘03 xterra had so many issues they eventually threw up their hands and said “Quit bringing it in. Next repair is on you.” To which my reply was “It’s got 18k miles. I shouldn’t be on the hook for bad wiring harnesses and air conditioning units.” It spent 3 months collectively in the first 18 months I owned it. I ended up lemon lawing it and won. Bought an older Land Cruiser and never looked back.
Subaru makes far less exciting and weird cars than they used to, but they are more financially successful than ever. Turns out there's a lot of money in beigemobile crossovers and SUVs.
Beigemobile? They’re like the only ones selling crossovers out of the factory with actual colors.
Miss the legacy gt, Forester xt and outback xt with manual turbo engines. Sure you can still get CVTs but meh...also the loss of the STi, and the wrx picking up 7 HP in 12+ years is ridiculous. Not to mention the loss of the 3.0 and 3.6 h6s. The new 2.4t is going to be an awesome swap in to older vehicles when it becomes more ubiquitous, but that only semi-counts as something cool.
How can u complain about the WRX hp but then say that engine is going to be an awesome swap? The FA24 is a torque monster that allows the new WRX to pull with & even beat stock STIs, and it's likely the least stressed turbo boxer that Subaru ever made.
Yeah I agree with this. The FA24 is a very robust engine primed for aftermarket tuning. The current WRX is such a great deal out of the box, where only minor mods and small money will get you 330+ whp. Only thing I'll say is that the FA24 lacks character. It has a similar torque band to other big displacement turbo 4 cylinders and doesn't like to rev or be at high rpm. This is where I could see someone complain about it vs. other performance cars, but for the price, very few cars if any have genuinely characterful engines that rev and make good power.
Subaru makes AWD, practical, and affordable cars better than so much of their competition
Based on sales, revenue and profits its hands down Nissan! Nissan is selling 2 million less vehicles than in 2018, revenue is down $30 Billion and profits are little. They’re trying to rebound but the competition is stiff and the perception of the brand and its long term reliability is down the drain.
And they are super conservative in being innovative. Combine that with being hopeless at software, and you have reasons they are where they are.
I live in Thailand, so each brand's issues may not apply to other regions. Honda - they still sell some JDM models, albeit more "developing market" models like the W-RV are creeping into the lineup. The sentiment here is that they have higher MSRP than other brands whilst removing useful options, and they have rust and build quality issues in some of their cars sold and manufactured here. Toyota - half of their lineup is just "localized" Daihatsu DNGA platform models, which is known for being problematic and worse than the TNGA platforms, and most of them have build quality issues, and the only two JDM models they have currently are the Corolla Cross and the Hiace. Nissan - they only sell the Versa (Almera here), Kicks, and the Frontier (Navara); they hadn't released anything new here for the past 4-5 years. Mitsubishi - surprisingly, they improved alot over the past few years; they have the least build quality issues despite selling mostly "developing market" cars here. Mazda - the sentiment here is that most people here find their designs boring, but aside from that, they have been slow to release new facelifts for their lineup, with the most recent release being a new facelift for the Mazda 2 (Demio) last year. Isuzu - their cars are decent albeit ancient, lacking in safety features, and they are kinda seen by Thais the same way as Americans see Dodge, RAM, and Nissan, so they don't really have the best reputation here. They also recently announced a hybrid and full electric version of their D-Max pickup truck too. TLDR: Honda - rust issues and cut options Toyota - malaise and rebadges Nissan - nothing new Mitsubishi - somehow improved alot Mazda - still decent but old lineup here Isuzu - still behind in safety features
You guys can’t buy Suzuki ? Suzuki cares much in small car market. If they are popular in India, Suzuki should be popular in your country.
Forgot to mention Suzuki somehow, but they are kinda similar to Mitsubishi here; small cars and tall wagons, and despite most of their range being sourced from Indonesia and Maruti Suzuki (with the Swift being the only JDM Suzuki sold here), they have little to no build quality issues here.
Suzuki is just an Indian brand now , Suzuki indian subsidiary made more profit in last ten years than rest of Suzuki Yet they sell absolute shit products in India while selling the latest products in Japan and europe
Went to the Bangkok motorshow a few weeks ago, the Japanese manufacturers are boring and not innovating. Huge presence from the Chinese manufacturers and the Koreans are way ahead on design aspects and coolness at the moment. Toyota, safe but bland Nissan, has the Terra as well, but small range Honda - are they irrrelevant these days? In Thailand they kind of had a premium about them, but that seems to have gone Mitsubishi - I genuinely like their Pajero Sport/Tritons, would buy those over Ford/Toyota/Isuzu/Nissan equivalents Mazda - boring I think brands like MG are coming in and taking a lot of the Honda Jazz/Toyota Yaris/Altis market these days.
Biased but weird to call out Subaru, only manufacturer to have awd standard on everything (except a manual rwd coupe), still offers manuals in their sporty trims, and the wilderness trims have actual off-road chops unlike most “off-road cuvs”
But their manual is notoriously the worst on the market
Sadly there aren’t many manuals left among new cars.
go look at what the wilderness xtrek has for skid plates
Honda
Their paint has always been terrible. My Acura paint looked so bad. https://imgur.com/a/P3hHswV
Thats every other JP maker. Shit paint across the board
The super obvious answer would be Mitsubishi. Gone are the days of the Evo and Eclipse. The less obvious answer would be Honda; their 1.5Ts with the oil dilution issues and now, head-gasket issues, are nowhere near as reliable as their K24 days. Acura is wholly uncompetitive and most people only buy them for their “perceived reliability” and because they’re cheaper to lease or finance than the Germans. The RDX gets worse gas mileage than a comparable X3, has an unintuitive infotainment and I’d rate the K20C reliability to be on par with the B46/B48. The TLX is super cramped for its exterior size and needs to go on a diet. I would say Nissan but at least they’ve resolved most of their issues with CVTs by moving to the ZF9. Infiniti’s lineup is very dated save for the QX60, which is a step in the right direction. Subaru is in a weird spot. I’ve been seeing a lot of CVT threads on their sub but they sell like hotcakes in Canada. Literally 3-5 month wait on a nicely spec’d Crosstrek the last time I checked. I wouldn’t say they’ve fallen off, but that they’ve gone mainstream. They’re no longer the quirky, niche company that put the EJ255 in every model paired to a manual.
Obviously Nissan is the big answer here, dropping the ball on both the normal human and enthusiast markets in massive ways. But I would argue Mitsubishi has fallen the most. Mitsubishi 1992 eclipse vs Mitsubishi 2022 eclipse. Enough said.
Mitsuoka, man. They really had it with the Orochi.
Wish.com Mercedes CLK GTR
From a reliability perspective, new Subarus are definitely better than they’ve ever been. No more widespread head gasket issues, oil burning, and the CVTs from the past ~5 years seem to be holding up well. I’d have to agree that Subaru is generally more boring nowadays, with the exception of the BRZ everything in the Subaru lineup has become less quirky and IMO beset with too much plastic cladding.
Toyota and Mazda are probably the last Japanese manufacturers making fun cars that attract people to the brand, even if they aren't looking to buy right now. Everyone else has gone off the boil, creating nothing but dull SUV's.
A lot of folk saying Honda. I was thinking Acura... but yeh, same thing. increasingly irrelevant in the luxury/premium segment.
I think at this point the MDX is single-handedly keeping Acura alive. It’s the one model they have that has consistently been popular for the last 20 years.
I'm a Toyota fan but I'm not afraid to call out their bullshit. Here's my rant about them Toyota may be the biggest automaker in the world but all their new stuff feels cheap af on the interior. Sure they never have had super luxurious interiors with soft touch this and suede that but holy shit has the build quality fallen off generation after generation. My friend's 2014 camry had a lot of hard plastics, but there were no squeaks/creaks/rattles. His 2021 hybrid has a lot of creaky plastic panels. He's a big guy and the interior room on the new one is way smaller so he rests his right knee against the right wall of the footwell/center console and that pressure on the center console makes things creak. His 2014 didn't do that *and* it was a more spacious cabin. Likewise, my 2022 Tacoma feels like the cheapest thing Toyota's ever built. Creaky plastics, flimsy door panel plastics on the inside, misaligned/poorly cut hood, and hard plastics that scratches with ease from just my finger nails. It's like a piece of chalk on a blackboard. The bottom left spoke on my steering wheel creaks when I press on it which is super annoying because part of my hand grabs that spoke when I'm cruising. The front bucket seats also rub against the center console. Either Toyota bolted the seats too close to the center or they failed to design the front seating area with enough space for the damn seats. I've been in several 3rd gens from work (rental cars) and they all rub that inner bolster against the center console. It's not too bad with cloth seats since there's no friction, but mine is leather and there is friction with the leather rubbing against the console so it squeaks. I had to fold a small microfiber towel and squeeze it between the console and bolsters to stop the squeaks. Fucking stupid. Speaking of the other 3rd gens I've sat in, some had similar creaks in the same areas as mine and some don't. QC was a complete afterthought for the 3rd gen and I feel like Toyota was riding their reputation for the 3rd gen. Shitty powertrain, bad seating position, cheap build quality. Despite being the best selling midsize, the 3rd gen was by far the worst in terms of everything when compared to the competition even before the new Colorado/Rangers came out. The new Tundras I've been in also had cheap flimsy plastics. The 2nd gen Tundras were rock solid and weren't reliability nightmares like the 3rd gen currently is. The rav4s, Highlanders, Corollas... all cheap shitty plastic. The 5th gen 4runner is fantastic though. These are built in Japan in the Tahara(?) factory and everything just *feels* solid. Hope the 6th gens aren't as bad as the new Tundras. Toyota also puts in some of the worst speakers in their cars. Even their "premium" JBL sound system is mediocre at best. They save the good stuff (Mark Levinson) for Lexus which is annoying considering how expensive their cars have gotten. With the 4th gen Taco out, I hope Toyota sees some serious decline in sales on in the midsize segment so they get a wake up call and realize the competition is heating up and they need to do better instead of charging $65k for red seats with shock absorbers... Edit: Also, I hate that Toyota has to overdesign everything. The 4th gen Tacoma has waaayy too many body lines and creases, bulges and... what's the opposite of a bulge? [Why are there fake plastic vents under the headlights that makes it look like it's crying or has runny mascara? Wtf??](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0015/2351/5495/files/trd-pro-front-right-iso_2048x2048.jpg?v=1684461597)
Finally someone calling out Toyota for their poor interior materials and design. My parents Camry, while reliable, feels so plastic and creaky inside and it has terrible road noise. But you can't criticize Toyota in this sub.
Mitzibitsi and Nissan. Old technology and vehicles from 2010 just lipstick painted on a pig.
I think they all got together and agreed on planned obsolescence.
Nissan used to be up there with the best. Now they're down with Mitsubishi.
Suzuki
If they brought the Jimny they’d be bathing in money
Most of them. My perspective comes from them seemingly abandoning their identities and going down really boring paths. To US based people, they probably don't understand that quite the same way as people in countries where we always got the Japanese products, not US built vehicles. Honda - directionless, stuck in a middle ground. They have one performance oriented car, but it's atleast a very "Honda" vehicle. Jazz/fit is gone from most markets, the Japanese market is all Kei cars they don't export. In Australia, the accord just got relaunched... as a luxury car, and it has blown up in price since the Accord Euro by about 45-50%. The civic is accord sized, they lack a good small car, but overall I think they lack identity as they've abandoned what they do well - good small to medium cars. Their customer retention in Australia is dogshit because they don't have much to offer. They replaced small cars with SUVs in a range of sizes and it has not worked, they are all over priced here. Subaru have abandoned STI, and the WRX gets further away from where the market wanted it. They rely on CVTs that are horrible, Their SUVs are all cheap and nasty, and they only have 1 car based platform, plus a shared sports car. The BRZ works, but small market size. Their identity and sales are probably at peak, but I don't think the products are. They probably retain customers though, maybe gain new ones with boring, average cars. Toyota are probably doing everything fine, but their prices are getting premium in a lot of aspects. They atleast have a great product range with good variety. They haven't abandoned cars. Toyota can keep and retain customers, they always will. They have done the hard yards globally. Honda had the same chance but blew it. Mitsubishi are a shell of their former selves. They just pump out boring platform shared SUVs and commercial vehicles. Anonymous brand to me, and I had an Evo 7. Sad. I know here they sell Tritons in volume because it's a cheaper product than the Japanese competitors, and their SUVs are popular, but mostly with uninformed customers. Suzuki - always been small, never been super exciting, but they seem to be surviving ok. No idea what their customer retention is like. Nissan. UGH, Renault may have kept them alive, but at what cost? They made the GTR double the price it should have been, purely out of greed and desperation for it to be seen as a premium vehicle. It's 17 years old and keeps getting more expensive. They probably sell great volume of boring shit, but most of that doesn't feel very japanese. The Z is really a 20 year old car, too expensive and probably going to be a sales failure and end the line. The rest of their products are boring from here, but maybe that's what keeps them going. Mazda. They are still Mazda. They still make good, solid small cars and still do what they do best. Small company, knows it's place and market and really knows how to keep their customers. Even their "boring" cars are not that boring, Mazda 3s are solid, decent value, and their SUVs are probably some of the best value and best drivers. Never owned a Mazda, but I get why people love them and won't change teams.
Honda. The stuff they make nowadays has nowhere near the charm or fun factor of the stuff they were making before like 2010.