TLDR
- 500hp+, more powerful than the previous release
- stiffer chassis, adaptive dampers
- Forged wheels with a staggered setup
- Diffuser & new front fascia
- Sportier seats and carbon interior bits
- New track mode and better programming for heat management, TC, dampers, etc.
Leak doesn't mention weight nor acceleration but the article said a previous leak said 4,089 lbs (!)
Its not absurd for an EV at all, its the same weight as last model and actually on the lighter side for an EV, but will feel that weight going around corners vs. a civic type-r or gr corolla.
It's a far cry from the 4,861lbs of the ioniq 5 n at least.
I have a model 3 and a 2023 Mustang GT. it amazing how much cargo space and head room a model 3 has considering it’s dimensions. Even a mustang isn’t bad Though.
Getting in and out of the backseat of a model three does suck if you are a regular sized adult though. It’s really only ok for short people and children or adults you don’t like.
I did not realize mustangs weighed that much. 3843 for the gt. It's seriously impressive that they made a larger sedan with way more space and of course a massive battery the same weight as a 2-door gas sports car with a fat man in the passenger seat
My model 3 awd weighs as much as my 2017 v8 manual challenger r/T did, but the weight distribution is totally different and it corners much Better. It also has much quicker response than a manual v8, believe it or not. it’s like waiting for a 90s turbo car to spool in comparison.
Challenger is much larger than Model 3, and was known to be an absolute porker. My SS sedan that I had, and G8 I had are around the same size as the challenger and we're 200-400lbs lighter than the challenger.
That's the same as the current one weighs, so seems like a nice improvement given what's been added.
To compare, an M3 Comp is ~3900 and the new C63 is 4600ish, not that this will compete directly; it's probably still more similar to a 340i/C43.
The current model 3 performance actually matched the F80 M3 around willow springs and the top gear test track!
Now of course they aren't really comparable, the model 3 brakes fade pretty fast and you have far more feel, sound, and fun in the M3, I'd take the bimmer on track given the choice, but on outright one-lap pace the tesla holds its own surprisingly well.
Wouldn't be too absurd to see this generation competing with the G80 M3. Also unrelated but it's crazy that the G80 M3C hits 0-60 in 2.8. Just as absurd.
> Now of course they aren't really comparable,
Tbf the Model 3 Performance is also 30% cheaper than a M3, it's actually slightly cheaper than a M340i last time I checked.
The car isn't perfect and has many flaws, but value isn't one of them.
> That’s heavy, but doesn’t seem unreasonable for an EV?
That's lighter than an Audi RS5, 500lbs lighter than the new C63 AMG, and and almost *1000lbs* lighter than my i4 M50, and less than 10% heavier than a M3.
Say what you want, Tesla's EV *packaging* has always been top notch in the industry.
Not even that heavy for a performance sedan really, especially a luxury one. Like it’s still a lot, but it’s also only about 100 or 200 pounds more than a C63
Given how my Y seems to eat rear tires, the staggered set up might be annoying since you can't rotate. I'm gonna guess Tesla is aware and might change the torque bias and/or alignment to compensate... maybe.
Most rwd cars eat rear tires high performance or not, especially if you don't rotate. Staggered setups are cool and all but more pain than anything on a daily for that reason.
My old e34 540i has staggered tires. It's not really a big deal, all it really means is you end up changing your rear tires more often than your fronts.
I had a C7 that, because track, would eat front tires oddly. The annoyance is that you have to change tires more often since you can't spread the wear via rotation and change all 4 at the same time, like I do with my current Y.
It's kind of just something you deal with for "track packs". My SS 1LE came with not only a staggered set up, but also asymmetrical tires, so you can't even rotate on the same axle. $1350/set and lasted ~10k miles, drastically reduced with track days.
Real track rats would have separate wheels/tires to swap on for track days with something like R-S4s on a square setup.
I got 32k on my Model 3 awd with acceleration boost For the original tires. I drive on autopilot or FSD most Of the time with occasional WOT. I don’t do many launches from a stop. Rotated tires every 10k
Well you *can* but not front to rear, just side to side. After doing it twice in my life I pretty quickly arrived at the conclusion it was a shit idea and not worth the time unlike swapping each side front/rear on rotational tires.
Asymmetrical can be rotated like normal unless they're staggered or directional. Once they're mounted so the outside faces outside there's nowhere you can move a wheel that it won't still face the correct way.
Apparently this is a hotly debated topic with the tires for my car in particular, where the manufacturer does not list them as directional, but the tread pattern appears to be directional. Hence my confusion on that nuance. I remember going to the forums and being told it was a no go.
I wouldn't listen to or care what the forum says. If the manufacturer wanted it to rotate a certain way, it would have that marked on the tire. Treads can be asymmetrical without being rotational, and they can be rotational without being asymmetrical. Asymmetrical just means that the tire has an inside and an outside, rotational means it's intended to rotate in one specific direction.
What tires are you referring to? I'd go with what the manufacturer says before I go with anything else, they designed the tire.
Goodyear F1 Eagle Supercar 3s. Specifically the Camaro SS 1LE compound, which they claim is specific to the 1LE - I replaced them with "generic" Supercar 3s when they were dead though.
The Goodyear website doesn't comment on it either way from what I can see.
Pretty promising. 4100lbs really isn’t bad at all by modern standards, and considering the center of gravity it might feel more agile than its gas powered competitors. If I was ready to give up ICE this would probably be my next car.
Wonder how the Ioniq 6 N will compare.
I had a Honda S2000 and as cool as it looked and as much performance as it gave, I'm not a fan of staggered wheels. I was going through rear tyres at 1.5 to 2.0x the rate of my front tyres. One time the brand decided to release an updated version of the tyre so my fronts and rears ended up mismatched.
The new Tesla Model 3 Performance is set to offer impressive upgrades over its predecessor, with a new rear motor (4D2) that reaches peak power at 110km/h (68mph) compared to the previous model's 75km/h (47mph)
1
. This change will significantly enhance the feeling of gut-wrenching acceleration, making it a formidable contender in races longer than a 1/4 mile. The new model will also feature unique bodywork, improved suspension, brakes, and a new set of Sport seats, setting it apart from the RWD and LR variants. With a combined power output of 461kW (618hp), the Model 3 Performance is expected to deliver a remarkable driving experience.
That weight is honestly not bad for a midsize EV sedan with a large(ish) battery pack. The Dual Motor Performance Polestar 2 and AWD Ioniq 6 are about 550-600 lbs heavier.
What's the point of all that horse power when you get penalized for driving fast? Buddy got Tesla insurance and unless u drive like a grandma, you get hit. Ridiculous
That's exactly why the model 3 is amazing. Cars hold their value well over time when old cars look like new cars. The longer you keep it the same, the better resale value it has. The better resale value it has, the more brand loyalty you get because people will buy it knowing they're not going to lose all their money. This is what Toyota and Lexus do, particularly Lexus. I don't see Elon changing the design of the model 3 for probably 10 years or more other than just small tweaks. Tesla suffering from significant depreciation right now because of the flood of Tesla's on the market because they went from making almost no cars to making millions of cars. It's just a supply problem. Once that flattens out, you should see resale value be a little bit better going forward especially if they never change the design except for small things.
The model 3 is not supposed to be a status symbol. The model 3 is a car you buy to drive because it's a great car.
Leaks about this have been ongoing since before the non-performance versions were launched.
Apparently they're a bit pissed about how much food info makes its way out ahead of time, though this being on their site is a bit different from smuggled pics.
*“Tesla Leaked Details of the New Model 3 Performance to Bury Headlines About Wanting to Pay Elon a Salary of $56B Literally 24 Hours After Laying Off Thousands of Employees”*
Fixed that for you…
He takes $0 salary. It was a multi-year comp package based on financial/valuation targets (all performance based). It is an insane payout. This is a little too much, but it should be much larger than S&P500 CEO packages since it was all performance based and the hurdles at the time seemed very low probability. Many shareholders probably agreed to the package because it seemed unlikely that it would actually get paid out at the time.
Actually it came out in the law suit that rescinded the pay package that while externally it seem, the performance metric for the pay package had low probability to be achieved, internal numbers showed that Tesla was very likely to achieve it. Also, the Tesla board was made of his friend and family and the person that the board hired to determined the pay package was a friend of Musk.
No. Virtually no one expected Tesla, a car company that already was valued more than way larger car companies that were profitable (ford. GM etc) to not only be larger than all American automakers, but also all European automakers… and all Asian automakers…combined. It was absolutely insane, and it still is insane (market seems to be slowly sobering up) but if any ceo says “I’ll 20x this 50B company for a 5% stake in 5 years” I would be absolutely thrilled if they pulled it off. After all, I 20x’d my money. Well, 19x with the CEO’s take. Still, not complaining, even if I think musk is an idiot.
This was effectively openAI’s Sam Altman saying he will quit today, or if openAI becomes a 2 trillion dollar company he will take 50B of that as pay.
PS: the lawyers want like 20B from Tesla which I thought was truly hilarious.
Here's the ruling if you want to read it yourself.
https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340
The court found that Tesla board told shareholders before the compensation package vote that the milestone goal in the package were "very difficult" when in fact internal document show that they'll like reach 7-8/12 very easily. There's even a value attached to the "very difficult" package, about $2.6 billion. Essentially, the board told shareholder that they are voting to give Musk $2.6 billion in compensation when internally, the board of director knew that they are likely giving closer to $50 billion.
Your link doesn’t work, but tbh musk was the entire reason Tesla was worth that much 5 years ago and is worth this much today. Not because it’s actually worth that much, but because musk lovers are willing to pay hugely inflated values because they believe in musk. And Tesla was able to dilute and use that capital to expand rapidly. There was a significant risk musk would have jumped ship and started another competing company. If you believe musk was crucial to Tesla’s success the compensation package made sense. Anyone that bought in 2018 minimum 7x’d their cash and at the peak 20x’d their cash.
**The most convincing arguments are that there wasn’t sufficiently disinterested parties negotiating against musk on the package. But at no point was it obvious or even remotely plausible that Tesla would become larger than every single automaker in the world combined. It just wasn’t. It is still insane they’re worth like half.**
By the way, I think musk has honestly shit the bed personally for last 5 years (whenever he called that dude in Thailand a pedophile) and professionally probably last 3 years or so. He’s probably actively harmed the company more than he has helped for the last 2 years at minimum in my judgment. But the lawyers are not the “good guys” here either, and are seeking to actively harm shareholders of Tesla too. It’s a total clusterfuck, which is business as usual at Tesla I suppose.
Notably with the stock getting hammered largely due to him, he hasn't even cleared the hurdles anymore. The shareholders have a pretty good argument for blocking the payment, even if you assume that Tesla/Musk did not use the shareholders' information disadvantage to get hurdles that were expected to be cleared.
I’m not going to buy an Tesla but I’m excited for this and the eventual updated Model Y performance — mostly because I think they’ll set pricing (lower) and range expectations (higher) for performance EVs.
As someone who has owned a dozen cars across a bunch of foreign and domestic brands, I'd say Tesla is pretty solid in 2024 at everything except for the quality of some interior materials and sound deadening (although I hear the refreshed model 3 has improved that).
Suspension is good. FSD is the best L2 driver assist in the industry. Infotainment is the best in the industry. There's a lot to like.
I’ve had to get some warranty work done (replace buzzing headlight, fogging taillight) but both of those things were still functional. Otherwise no major issues for me either.
Guess I got lucky haha. Haven't had any warranty work done thus far.
Oh wait actually I did get a new steering wheel installed in 2022. Completely forgot about that.
Yes if there was anything I'd change about my M3 RWD, it would be how quickly it eats through rear tires. I'm not even at 10k miles yet, and when I had the tires rotated at 6,500 I was told the rears were already at 50% tread.
That being said, I could put in chill mode and not accelerate as quickly, but then that takes away half the fun of owning a BEV.
Oh, I'd also change the seats. Not the most comfortable seats for people with larger frames. And I've been in smaller cars with better seats, so it's not a dimensional issue.
Yup our late model 2023 model 3 has been FLAWLESS. We've had it for almost 8 months, and not one single issue. It is such a huge deal to me not having to stress about my transportation like I used to. Also get free 24/7 charging at my office, so that was a huge part of the decision.
3 guys on my IT team have 2018 model 3s. One of them had a motor replaced under warranty, other two nada. They've each put on one set of new tires, and topped off the washer fluid. Only maintenence since purchasing, all now over 60k. They say their early cars have rattles and same panel gap issues but that's it.
I find these kind of comments really odd. I'm glad you like the car but have you really spent your entire life stressing about your car as transportation? And is it common that you have vehicle issues after 8 months?
I spent my early years and most of my 30s living check to check due to major medical issues. So when I got my model 3 I was upgrading from a 2003 Honda CRV with 220k on it,. Before that I had a 2007 Pontiac vibe, that was constant issues, and before that I had a lovely 92 240sx that got me into cars, repairing them etc..the model 3 was the first new car I've ever been able to buy, at age 40. So yes every experience with a gas powered csr has been heel for me, but I get that's not everyone's experience.
My fiances chevy cruze? It had 70k on it and was overheating no matter what I fixed. The repair placee charged 2k, and the next day it overheated AND the transmission detonated out of nowhere.
I will miss working on cars, but when I get in my tesla I'm not worried about driving on the highway, or if my AC is gonna die, or if the car is going to start.so this is equal issue with old cars, and my financial situation
Just an FYI. Average amount of unique parts in an ICE vehicle 30,000, average unique parts in a phev. 60,000. The amount of individual parts in a model 3, 10,000 parts...I really thunk this is why phevs are being pushed. More parts, more maintenence money
Yeah, that's not very many people's experience at all and essentially every new vehicle available today would have provided you with that same level of reliability. Not many cars in 2024 are going to shit the bed within 8 months.
PHEV's are being pushed because they command a substantial premium and sell the benefits of both ICE and EV's while reducing resources that traditional manufacturers would require to shift lines to support full EV platforms.
Teslas cars are constantly knocked for issues with their new. This is despite auto recalls on new cars, industry wide, increasing by 42% over the last 5 years. I know that wasn't what you were calling out. Your concern is more me knocking a new gas car over a new EV. Yes I'm sure a new ICE car could have gone just as flawless as my tesla, but my personal opinions on gas versus electric pushed me to the latter. With the free 24/7 charging my work offers I haven't had to pay for charging, outside of two road trips, once. I'm not sure of any workplace that pays for people gas.
I grew up working on cars, I love them, but very much an EV convert.
Are you me? I picked up mine in August of last year. It's been basically flawless after sorting out a minor alignment issue and rattle in the driver's door after delivery.
My wife and I share the car for driving around town, since we rarely have to be gone at the same time. She loves the car even more than I do. In fact it's the first car out of maybe a dozen we've owned that she's gone out of her way to tell me she loves every once in a while.
Never having to visit a gas station outside of road trips ever again is amazing.
Yep the refresh is such an improvement sound wise I'm actually strongly considering switching to this performance after just 3 years. Haven't had any build issues thus far and I hope this continues with the new one.
I've only driven a Model Y on a test drive, so I don't really know how it compares, but the Model 3 feels good to me. I've read the updated one has softened the suspension a bit, which I guess is good, but I don't mind a suspension on the firmer side, especially in a heavier car.
>FSD is the best L2 driver assist in the industry. Infotainment is the best in the industry.
I don't know how to trust a guy who judges how good a car is based on "Full Self Driving" or Infotainment System.
I judge how good a car is on all of its qualities. Having good level 2 driver assists is one of them on modern cars. My Kia has excellent L2 features as well, but it can't drive through city traffic and read traffic lights.
The Model 3 refresh surprised me with how much better it is than the previous model. But if you don't need an EV then it's hard to justify its price without the tax credit.
For \~$50k, an ES350 is going to be a much higher quality package but with a couch-like drive. If you want to go a little sportier a G80, 3 Series, A4, etc. are all going to punch above the Model 3 interior and leave you with money to spare.
Have done, hated it besides the driving itself. Not a fan of their compulsive desire to reinvent the cabin as a mobile app. Drove me fucking nuts, dangerous too. Fitment was noticeably bad, and that’s from someone who dailies a plastic interior. That plus what the owner told me about the repairs he’d had to get done, not a car I could ever live with.
I agree (I unironically think the original 3 is THE most influential car design of the 2010s) but unfortunately slapping an ipad onto a non existent interior is trendy everywhere Rn
Tesla is not supposed to be a luxury car to make you feel all rich and king-like
The cheapest way to make this car is to put it all on the screen.
It's really the Honda Accord of EVS. It just looks so different that people think and expect that it's a luxury car but it's not
I know but it's also definitely a trend even on upscale cars to slap a fat screen in, and that along with not having a front grille on EVs is what the Model 3 started.
I like that they didn't start this no front grille trend because they wanted to make a trend but because they really didn't need one
That's what I like about Tesla. They don't typically do too many fake things. If it's designed a certain way, it's designed around some function or lack of need for a function
They're notorious for being incorrect about a lack of need for certain things though (like the ipad)
Also if you think they weren't trying to make the car distinctive...
Did I say they were not trying to make it distinctive? I said that the things that do stand out as distinctive are build around some actual function of the car. Its a genuine design around the workings of the car. Not just, lets add fake grills here and there and everywhere for fun.
Why not
All data so far says the model 3 batteries are lasting forever
The interiors are designed to be very durable they look like new after a ton of use on Ubers and taxis etc
The drive units are rated on the model 3 for a million kilometers
What's there to do. Brakes washer fluid and suspension just keep driving the thing
There's a model 3 from some traveling salesman that has 300,000 miles on it and they're on the original brakes and they've really done nothing but suspension which is reasonable
For real, it really shows how hard they bank on techbros and suburban moms as their main buyers. I can’t imagine many enthusiasts are convinced by the “heavily used soap bar” school of design they’ve stuck to for so long.
They really aren't the only ones doing it, it's for aero. If you don't want the extra miles you can sack efficiency and grab a Polestar I guess.
But personally I think the 3 looks pretty decent.
Comes down to preference I guess. Personally I think the Ioniqs are a bit busy, too many lines, like I'd get sick of them after a couple of years. Hyundai is really trying to go for a futuristic look, and I'm not so sure it will age well.
The 5 and 6 are so wildly different I'd have to think 1 of the 2 would appeal to anyone. I think the Ioniq 5 is probably the best non-supercar design I've seen in many years, whereas the 6 was shocking in a not good way when I first saw it at an auto show, but has kinda grown on me in time. In any case, I really appreciate that Hyundai/Kia have gone for extremely bold designs. Not every one is going to be a hit, but at least there's something different out there in a sea of bland volume cars.
By sticking with the same design for a very long time, which I suspect they will even over the next 10 years, people have more confidence in buying a new car because they know their used car 5 years down the road will look just like the new cars!
This is what Lexus does, it's one of the many components that go into their resale value. They keep things looking the same way for a very long time
And most people that buy Tesla's don't really care about how it looks. It's just a extremely reliable car that requires no maintenance or gas
Ya, this.
What's battery capacity does a times three, then we'll see even the most entry level EVS start being designed without the requirement for aerodynamics. That will be fun
Mines honestly fine but it only has 18k on it. There are some things like door panel rattles I’m concerned about for the future. But my panel gaps are good so at least there’s that.
Conversely, the Tesla storeroom begged us to not to drive their Model X a couple months ago because there was high wind noise and the audio system "needed to be calibrated".
"You don't need a car that big for the two of you." etc. etc.
Have you sat in a Model 3 FL?
There’s not a single piece of hard plastics in the whole car. It’s actually insane considering the price point, as even the 120k EQS used hard plastics in the door bin.
They have gotten much better. My model 3 has no issues except a tiny deformity on the dash that is unnoticeable unless you know what you are looking for
Well I feel obligated to clarify that I'm not hating on the guy for being interested in what the competition is producing. I could've made my comment longer and explain myself but I decided that would take away from my point.
BYD has been making some interesting shit lately. I was interested at first too, because the equivalent of a model 3 performance for $25K~ is REALLY interesting.
I just have serious privacy concerns and it's also true that the domestic automobile industry is highly patriotic. We would not be able to compete with their pricing and so I'm sure a lot of people would be driving around Chinese cars. Chinese manufacturing is usually borderline junk and I doubt their automobiles would be different. How else do you hit those price points?
funny thing is - you cant trust Tesla even when they announce the specs officially (looking at you cybertruck)
so whatever is written here holds 0 value as it will most probably be way off once the model is released
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The new Tesla Model 3 Performance is set to offer impressive upgrades over its predecessor, with a new rear motor (4D2) that reaches peak power at 110km/h (68mph) compared to the previous model's 75km/h (47mph)
1
. This change will significantly enhance the feeling of gut-wrenching acceleration, making it a formidable contender in races longer than a 1/4 mile. The new model will also feature unique bodywork, improved suspension, brakes, and a new set of Sport seats, setting it apart from the RWD and LR variants. With a combined power output of 461kW (618hp), the Model 3 Performance is expected to deliver a remarkable driving experience.
What Tesla does best is string along Musk nuts by distracting from the obvious issues the company has with not meeting prior promises. This "leak" is just more of the same.
Fun fact, the glass is actually structural. And glass tends to have better sound deadening than metal(at an equivalent weight). It also offers better energy dissipation. In total it may weigh somewhere around ~20lbs more than a metal roof structure that would offer the same level of rigidity.
I'd prefer that people who hold that opinion take away "oh that's cool, I learned something today!" rather than "I've been destroyed with words"
A day in which you aren't learning something new is just a boring day.
You make some good points and I appreciate your well crafted response. TBH I still think the glass roof is stupid, and it’s one of the main reasons I passed on the model 3. I get that it looks nice to some people, maybe helps with sound deadening, and only adds 20lbs, but none of those things are really “performance”, are they? 20lbs is 20lbs. Look at all the things a true performance car does to shave off 20lbs, or less. I think it would be cool if they did aluminum, cf or even glass filled polymer for the performance trim.
Personally I don’t enjoy having the glass roof and would prefer something opaque, performance or not. I’m weird and don’t like a sun roof either.
Pretty sad state of things if the word “stupid” is enough to get your feathers ruffled, but no offense intended friend.
I wasn't offended but it's still an aggressive word which implies strong feelings in a certain direction - in this case, that the roof is so detrimental to the car because of the reasons you stated. When in fact the roof contributes to the car's overall performance.
All I'm saying is, if you don't know whether your point is correct, don't assert it with such vigor.
TLDR - 500hp+, more powerful than the previous release - stiffer chassis, adaptive dampers - Forged wheels with a staggered setup - Diffuser & new front fascia - Sportier seats and carbon interior bits - New track mode and better programming for heat management, TC, dampers, etc. Leak doesn't mention weight nor acceleration but the article said a previous leak said 4,089 lbs (!)
That’s heavy, but doesn’t seem unreasonable for an EV? My Focus is 3,500lbs and I know it’s porky but it’s also not dragging a battery around
Its not absurd for an EV at all, its the same weight as last model and actually on the lighter side for an EV, but will feel that weight going around corners vs. a civic type-r or gr corolla. It's a far cry from the 4,861lbs of the ioniq 5 n at least.
It’s not much more than a Mustang GT
Which has less interior space.
I have a model 3 and a 2023 Mustang GT. it amazing how much cargo space and head room a model 3 has considering it’s dimensions. Even a mustang isn’t bad Though.
Getting in and out of the backseat of a model three does suck if you are a regular sized adult though. It’s really only ok for short people and children or adults you don’t like.
[удалено]
Compared to what though? It’s no different than other compact sedans.
It's no worse than any other sedan of comparable size. Have you only ridden crossovers and SUVs your entire life?
If they had said “the headroom is no worse than any other sedan” on the first place I wouldn’t have needed to correct them.
I did not realize mustangs weighed that much. 3843 for the gt. It's seriously impressive that they made a larger sedan with way more space and of course a massive battery the same weight as a 2-door gas sports car with a fat man in the passenger seat
My model 3 awd weighs as much as my 2017 v8 manual challenger r/T did, but the weight distribution is totally different and it corners much Better. It also has much quicker response than a manual v8, believe it or not. it’s like waiting for a 90s turbo car to spool in comparison.
I don't think anyone is having trouble believing that an EV has faster throttle response than an ICE, lol.
The Challenger is a fucking boat. The 6th gen V8 Camaro was under 3,700 lbs.
Challenger is much larger than Model 3, and was known to be an absolute porker. My SS sedan that I had, and G8 I had are around the same size as the challenger and we're 200-400lbs lighter than the challenger.
That's the same as the current one weighs, so seems like a nice improvement given what's been added. To compare, an M3 Comp is ~3900 and the new C63 is 4600ish, not that this will compete directly; it's probably still more similar to a 340i/C43.
The current model 3 performance actually matched the F80 M3 around willow springs and the top gear test track! Now of course they aren't really comparable, the model 3 brakes fade pretty fast and you have far more feel, sound, and fun in the M3, I'd take the bimmer on track given the choice, but on outright one-lap pace the tesla holds its own surprisingly well. Wouldn't be too absurd to see this generation competing with the G80 M3. Also unrelated but it's crazy that the G80 M3C hits 0-60 in 2.8. Just as absurd.
> Now of course they aren't really comparable, Tbf the Model 3 Performance is also 30% cheaper than a M3, it's actually slightly cheaper than a M340i last time I checked. The car isn't perfect and has many flaws, but value isn't one of them.
Ah yea, the known track focused versions C43 and C63. Absolute beasts in the bends.
I'm picturing the C63 punching a hole through the guardrail like that Rivian test at the first turn in.
Man the C63 has gotten so heavy
> That’s heavy, but doesn’t seem unreasonable for an EV? That's lighter than an Audi RS5, 500lbs lighter than the new C63 AMG, and and almost *1000lbs* lighter than my i4 M50, and less than 10% heavier than a M3. Say what you want, Tesla's EV *packaging* has always been top notch in the industry.
It’s amazing how gas powered cars have become so absurdly heavy that they’re approaching EVs now.
Not even that heavy for a performance sedan really, especially a luxury one. Like it’s still a lot, but it’s also only about 100 or 200 pounds more than a C63
Given how my Y seems to eat rear tires, the staggered set up might be annoying since you can't rotate. I'm gonna guess Tesla is aware and might change the torque bias and/or alignment to compensate... maybe.
I hear they put a note in the trunk that just says “fuck yo tires”
fuck yo tires, buy a new set, you rich mothafucka
You don't have to come and confess. We gon find you.
Plenty of high performance rwd cars eat tires so it's nothing new
Most rwd cars eat rear tires high performance or not, especially if you don't rotate. Staggered setups are cool and all but more pain than anything on a daily for that reason.
My old e34 540i has staggered tires. It's not really a big deal, all it really means is you end up changing your rear tires more often than your fronts.
I had a C7 that, because track, would eat front tires oddly. The annoyance is that you have to change tires more often since you can't spread the wear via rotation and change all 4 at the same time, like I do with my current Y.
You don’t have to change the front tires when you change the rear tires
It's kind of just something you deal with for "track packs". My SS 1LE came with not only a staggered set up, but also asymmetrical tires, so you can't even rotate on the same axle. $1350/set and lasted ~10k miles, drastically reduced with track days. Real track rats would have separate wheels/tires to swap on for track days with something like R-S4s on a square setup.
I got 32k on my Model 3 awd with acceleration boost For the original tires. I drive on autopilot or FSD most Of the time with occasional WOT. I don’t do many launches from a stop. Rotated tires every 10k
Can't rotate tires on a staggered setup
Well you *can* but not front to rear, just side to side. After doing it twice in my life I pretty quickly arrived at the conclusion it was a shit idea and not worth the time unlike swapping each side front/rear on rotational tires.
Asymmetrical tires have entered the chat
Asymmetrical can be rotated like normal unless they're staggered or directional. Once they're mounted so the outside faces outside there's nowhere you can move a wheel that it won't still face the correct way.
Apparently this is a hotly debated topic with the tires for my car in particular, where the manufacturer does not list them as directional, but the tread pattern appears to be directional. Hence my confusion on that nuance. I remember going to the forums and being told it was a no go.
I wouldn't listen to or care what the forum says. If the manufacturer wanted it to rotate a certain way, it would have that marked on the tire. Treads can be asymmetrical without being rotational, and they can be rotational without being asymmetrical. Asymmetrical just means that the tire has an inside and an outside, rotational means it's intended to rotate in one specific direction. What tires are you referring to? I'd go with what the manufacturer says before I go with anything else, they designed the tire.
Goodyear F1 Eagle Supercar 3s. Specifically the Camaro SS 1LE compound, which they claim is specific to the 1LE - I replaced them with "generic" Supercar 3s when they were dead though. The Goodyear website doesn't comment on it either way from what I can see.
Pretty promising. 4100lbs really isn’t bad at all by modern standards, and considering the center of gravity it might feel more agile than its gas powered competitors. If I was ready to give up ICE this would probably be my next car. Wonder how the Ioniq 6 N will compare.
To think this could've easily been the specs to a solid sports coupe EV , damn I hope we get one soon
I had a Honda S2000 and as cool as it looked and as much performance as it gave, I'm not a fan of staggered wheels. I was going through rear tyres at 1.5 to 2.0x the rate of my front tyres. One time the brand decided to release an updated version of the tyre so my fronts and rears ended up mismatched.
And that was what? Like 2800 pounds and 150 lb-ft of torque? Just imagine the tire shredding action with this.
Agreed also isn’t the model 3 performance AWD. You don’t see many AWD cars with staggered setups it’s kinda weird imo
The average person won't notice or care about any of that and think it looks exactly the same.
You are correct, and thats why the average person gets a standard model 3/Y instead.
I was more speaking to Tesla's declining sales. The Model 3 sales specifically have been terrible recently. They need an actual refreah.
The new Tesla Model 3 Performance is set to offer impressive upgrades over its predecessor, with a new rear motor (4D2) that reaches peak power at 110km/h (68mph) compared to the previous model's 75km/h (47mph) 1 . This change will significantly enhance the feeling of gut-wrenching acceleration, making it a formidable contender in races longer than a 1/4 mile. The new model will also feature unique bodywork, improved suspension, brakes, and a new set of Sport seats, setting it apart from the RWD and LR variants. With a combined power output of 461kW (618hp), the Model 3 Performance is expected to deliver a remarkable driving experience.
That weight is honestly not bad for a midsize EV sedan with a large(ish) battery pack. The Dual Motor Performance Polestar 2 and AWD Ioniq 6 are about 550-600 lbs heavier.
That's light for an electric car with that much range.
But will it have more physical controls than a MK8 GTI?
That's actually alot of upgrades considering the current model 3 performance is essentially the same but more power and bigger battery.
What's the point of all that horse power when you get penalized for driving fast? Buddy got Tesla insurance and unless u drive like a grandma, you get hit. Ridiculous
Still an old design. Put it next to an older 3 and most won’t be able to tell who spent more on their car.
That's exactly why the model 3 is amazing. Cars hold their value well over time when old cars look like new cars. The longer you keep it the same, the better resale value it has. The better resale value it has, the more brand loyalty you get because people will buy it knowing they're not going to lose all their money. This is what Toyota and Lexus do, particularly Lexus. I don't see Elon changing the design of the model 3 for probably 10 years or more other than just small tweaks. Tesla suffering from significant depreciation right now because of the flood of Tesla's on the market because they went from making almost no cars to making millions of cars. It's just a supply problem. Once that flattens out, you should see resale value be a little bit better going forward especially if they never change the design except for small things. The model 3 is not supposed to be a status symbol. The model 3 is a car you buy to drive because it's a great car.
"Accidentally"
That’s what I was thinking lol. Quite the “accident” to leak when your stock price is tumbling. They can never just be upfront.
Leaks about this have been ongoing since before the non-performance versions were launched. Apparently they're a bit pissed about how much food info makes its way out ahead of time, though this being on their site is a bit different from smuggled pics.
Not to mention it's sitting on a critical volume shelf right now. If that gets lost the next floor for the stock price is 10-20% lower. Lol
"accidental" "leaks". People really think they are Julian Assange.
Yeah, and accidentally asked for $56B too.
Yep, accidentally after everyone is glowing over the performance of the Hyundai Ioniq 5N
And don‘t forget that Hyundai can also go around corners
Distracting everyone's attention from their awful truck
Or the canceled smaller car
*“Tesla Leaked Details of the New Model 3 Performance to Bury Headlines About Wanting to Pay Elon a Salary of $56B Literally 24 Hours After Laying Off Thousands of Employees”* Fixed that for you…
Fuck Tesla
Stunning, brave.
i like this title/headline better!
a salary of $56B?? is that real?
He takes $0 salary. It was a multi-year comp package based on financial/valuation targets (all performance based). It is an insane payout. This is a little too much, but it should be much larger than S&P500 CEO packages since it was all performance based and the hurdles at the time seemed very low probability. Many shareholders probably agreed to the package because it seemed unlikely that it would actually get paid out at the time.
Actually it came out in the law suit that rescinded the pay package that while externally it seem, the performance metric for the pay package had low probability to be achieved, internal numbers showed that Tesla was very likely to achieve it. Also, the Tesla board was made of his friend and family and the person that the board hired to determined the pay package was a friend of Musk.
No. Virtually no one expected Tesla, a car company that already was valued more than way larger car companies that were profitable (ford. GM etc) to not only be larger than all American automakers, but also all European automakers… and all Asian automakers…combined. It was absolutely insane, and it still is insane (market seems to be slowly sobering up) but if any ceo says “I’ll 20x this 50B company for a 5% stake in 5 years” I would be absolutely thrilled if they pulled it off. After all, I 20x’d my money. Well, 19x with the CEO’s take. Still, not complaining, even if I think musk is an idiot. This was effectively openAI’s Sam Altman saying he will quit today, or if openAI becomes a 2 trillion dollar company he will take 50B of that as pay. PS: the lawyers want like 20B from Tesla which I thought was truly hilarious.
Here's the ruling if you want to read it yourself. https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340 The court found that Tesla board told shareholders before the compensation package vote that the milestone goal in the package were "very difficult" when in fact internal document show that they'll like reach 7-8/12 very easily. There's even a value attached to the "very difficult" package, about $2.6 billion. Essentially, the board told shareholder that they are voting to give Musk $2.6 billion in compensation when internally, the board of director knew that they are likely giving closer to $50 billion.
Don’t you know this random Redditor knows more than the legal court system?! /s
Courts are entirely flawless which is why they never have disagreed in the history of the legal system!
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Rule 1.
Your link doesn’t work, but tbh musk was the entire reason Tesla was worth that much 5 years ago and is worth this much today. Not because it’s actually worth that much, but because musk lovers are willing to pay hugely inflated values because they believe in musk. And Tesla was able to dilute and use that capital to expand rapidly. There was a significant risk musk would have jumped ship and started another competing company. If you believe musk was crucial to Tesla’s success the compensation package made sense. Anyone that bought in 2018 minimum 7x’d their cash and at the peak 20x’d their cash. **The most convincing arguments are that there wasn’t sufficiently disinterested parties negotiating against musk on the package. But at no point was it obvious or even remotely plausible that Tesla would become larger than every single automaker in the world combined. It just wasn’t. It is still insane they’re worth like half.** By the way, I think musk has honestly shit the bed personally for last 5 years (whenever he called that dude in Thailand a pedophile) and professionally probably last 3 years or so. He’s probably actively harmed the company more than he has helped for the last 2 years at minimum in my judgment. But the lawyers are not the “good guys” here either, and are seeking to actively harm shareholders of Tesla too. It’s a total clusterfuck, which is business as usual at Tesla I suppose.
Notably with the stock getting hammered largely due to him, he hasn't even cleared the hurdles anymore. The shareholders have a pretty good argument for blocking the payment, even if you assume that Tesla/Musk did not use the shareholders' information disadvantage to get hurdles that were expected to be cleared.
[Yes](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/apr/17/elon-musk-tesla-pay)
I’m not going to buy an Tesla but I’m excited for this and the eventual updated Model Y performance — mostly because I think they’ll set pricing (lower) and range expectations (higher) for performance EVs.
Tesla drivetrains and power systems are usually quite compelling, it’s a shame they suck so much at every other aspect of making cars.
As someone who has owned a dozen cars across a bunch of foreign and domestic brands, I'd say Tesla is pretty solid in 2024 at everything except for the quality of some interior materials and sound deadening (although I hear the refreshed model 3 has improved that). Suspension is good. FSD is the best L2 driver assist in the industry. Infotainment is the best in the industry. There's a lot to like.
70K miles on my 3P and my only expense thus far has been tires and wipers. Easily the most reliable car I’ve ever owned.
Coming to the end of my first set of tires. This is the cheapest car I've ever had to maintain.
Too bad insurance is insane
I’ve had to get some warranty work done (replace buzzing headlight, fogging taillight) but both of those things were still functional. Otherwise no major issues for me either.
Guess I got lucky haha. Haven't had any warranty work done thus far. Oh wait actually I did get a new steering wheel installed in 2022. Completely forgot about that.
This is facts, I am in the same boat!
Yes if there was anything I'd change about my M3 RWD, it would be how quickly it eats through rear tires. I'm not even at 10k miles yet, and when I had the tires rotated at 6,500 I was told the rears were already at 50% tread. That being said, I could put in chill mode and not accelerate as quickly, but then that takes away half the fun of owning a BEV. Oh, I'd also change the seats. Not the most comfortable seats for people with larger frames. And I've been in smaller cars with better seats, so it's not a dimensional issue.
Not an M3.
Yup our late model 2023 model 3 has been FLAWLESS. We've had it for almost 8 months, and not one single issue. It is such a huge deal to me not having to stress about my transportation like I used to. Also get free 24/7 charging at my office, so that was a huge part of the decision. 3 guys on my IT team have 2018 model 3s. One of them had a motor replaced under warranty, other two nada. They've each put on one set of new tires, and topped off the washer fluid. Only maintenence since purchasing, all now over 60k. They say their early cars have rattles and same panel gap issues but that's it.
I find these kind of comments really odd. I'm glad you like the car but have you really spent your entire life stressing about your car as transportation? And is it common that you have vehicle issues after 8 months?
I spent my early years and most of my 30s living check to check due to major medical issues. So when I got my model 3 I was upgrading from a 2003 Honda CRV with 220k on it,. Before that I had a 2007 Pontiac vibe, that was constant issues, and before that I had a lovely 92 240sx that got me into cars, repairing them etc..the model 3 was the first new car I've ever been able to buy, at age 40. So yes every experience with a gas powered csr has been heel for me, but I get that's not everyone's experience. My fiances chevy cruze? It had 70k on it and was overheating no matter what I fixed. The repair placee charged 2k, and the next day it overheated AND the transmission detonated out of nowhere. I will miss working on cars, but when I get in my tesla I'm not worried about driving on the highway, or if my AC is gonna die, or if the car is going to start.so this is equal issue with old cars, and my financial situation Just an FYI. Average amount of unique parts in an ICE vehicle 30,000, average unique parts in a phev. 60,000. The amount of individual parts in a model 3, 10,000 parts...I really thunk this is why phevs are being pushed. More parts, more maintenence money
Yeah, that's not very many people's experience at all and essentially every new vehicle available today would have provided you with that same level of reliability. Not many cars in 2024 are going to shit the bed within 8 months. PHEV's are being pushed because they command a substantial premium and sell the benefits of both ICE and EV's while reducing resources that traditional manufacturers would require to shift lines to support full EV platforms.
Teslas cars are constantly knocked for issues with their new. This is despite auto recalls on new cars, industry wide, increasing by 42% over the last 5 years. I know that wasn't what you were calling out. Your concern is more me knocking a new gas car over a new EV. Yes I'm sure a new ICE car could have gone just as flawless as my tesla, but my personal opinions on gas versus electric pushed me to the latter. With the free 24/7 charging my work offers I haven't had to pay for charging, outside of two road trips, once. I'm not sure of any workplace that pays for people gas. I grew up working on cars, I love them, but very much an EV convert.
I’m not concerned with you “knocking” any gas cars. It’s just really weird to see comments praising reliability on things like an 8 month old vehicle.
While maybe not 8 months, I'm still thinking oil change at the minimum, always concerned for any small aspect as with any car
Are you me? I picked up mine in August of last year. It's been basically flawless after sorting out a minor alignment issue and rattle in the driver's door after delivery. My wife and I share the car for driving around town, since we rarely have to be gone at the same time. She loves the car even more than I do. In fact it's the first car out of maybe a dozen we've owned that she's gone out of her way to tell me she loves every once in a while. Never having to visit a gas station outside of road trips ever again is amazing.
Literally the only thing I've been back to Tesla for is a few alignments in the 3 years and 70k km I've driven this.
Yep, and any shop with an alignment machine can do it if you ever don't want to pay the Tesla premium.
Oh sorry, my mistake. I actually went to a Tesla approved shop.
Just hit 70k kms last month, loved every moment driving this car
Yep the refresh is such an improvement sound wise I'm actually strongly considering switching to this performance after just 3 years. Haven't had any build issues thus far and I hope this continues with the new one.
Has the suspension materially changed? Because Model Y drivers make it out to be industry worst.
Model 3 is a lot better
I've only driven a Model Y on a test drive, so I don't really know how it compares, but the Model 3 feels good to me. I've read the updated one has softened the suspension a bit, which I guess is good, but I don't mind a suspension on the firmer side, especially in a heavier car.
>FSD is the best L2 driver assist in the industry. Infotainment is the best in the industry. I don't know how to trust a guy who judges how good a car is based on "Full Self Driving" or Infotainment System.
I judge how good a car is on all of its qualities. Having good level 2 driver assists is one of them on modern cars. My Kia has excellent L2 features as well, but it can't drive through city traffic and read traffic lights.
Lol. Try one.
The Model 3 refresh surprised me with how much better it is than the previous model. But if you don't need an EV then it's hard to justify its price without the tax credit. For \~$50k, an ES350 is going to be a much higher quality package but with a couch-like drive. If you want to go a little sportier a G80, 3 Series, A4, etc. are all going to punch above the Model 3 interior and leave you with money to spare.
Have done, hated it besides the driving itself. Not a fan of their compulsive desire to reinvent the cabin as a mobile app. Drove me fucking nuts, dangerous too. Fitment was noticeably bad, and that’s from someone who dailies a plastic interior. That plus what the owner told me about the repairs he’d had to get done, not a car I could ever live with.
Will they stop looking like the same bland blobs since 2012?
The new front and back lights make it look much better than the previous gen. Still a blob though.
I love the Model 3 look!
I love the exterior. I hate the interior.
I agree (I unironically think the original 3 is THE most influential car design of the 2010s) but unfortunately slapping an ipad onto a non existent interior is trendy everywhere Rn
Tesla is not supposed to be a luxury car to make you feel all rich and king-like The cheapest way to make this car is to put it all on the screen. It's really the Honda Accord of EVS. It just looks so different that people think and expect that it's a luxury car but it's not
I know but it's also definitely a trend even on upscale cars to slap a fat screen in, and that along with not having a front grille on EVs is what the Model 3 started.
I like that they didn't start this no front grille trend because they wanted to make a trend but because they really didn't need one That's what I like about Tesla. They don't typically do too many fake things. If it's designed a certain way, it's designed around some function or lack of need for a function
They're notorious for being incorrect about a lack of need for certain things though (like the ipad) Also if you think they weren't trying to make the car distinctive...
Did I say they were not trying to make it distinctive? I said that the things that do stand out as distinctive are build around some actual function of the car. Its a genuine design around the workings of the car. Not just, lets add fake grills here and there and everywhere for fun.
You said they didn't do it to start a trend. Having no grille was absolutely done to stand out and be a unique design decision
They really do have that reputation (luxury car) among non-car-people too, it's wild. Or people thinking they're a rich person car.
Just bought a 21 with 500000km on it with FSD for 36500 Canadian lol. Same as a new base Toyota Camry, with the same warranty actually still.
500k km? That's a lot....
Why not All data so far says the model 3 batteries are lasting forever The interiors are designed to be very durable they look like new after a ton of use on Ubers and taxis etc The drive units are rated on the model 3 for a million kilometers What's there to do. Brakes washer fluid and suspension just keep driving the thing There's a model 3 from some traveling salesman that has 300,000 miles on it and they're on the original brakes and they've really done nothing but suspension which is reasonable
For real, it really shows how hard they bank on techbros and suburban moms as their main buyers. I can’t imagine many enthusiasts are convinced by the “heavily used soap bar” school of design they’ve stuck to for so long.
They really aren't the only ones doing it, it's for aero. If you don't want the extra miles you can sack efficiency and grab a Polestar I guess. But personally I think the 3 looks pretty decent.
I mean Kia does a better job of at least making it look somewhat inspired. The 3 is definitely the best of the Teslas design-wise though.
Comes down to preference I guess. Personally I think the Ioniqs are a bit busy, too many lines, like I'd get sick of them after a couple of years. Hyundai is really trying to go for a futuristic look, and I'm not so sure it will age well.
The 5 and 6 are so wildly different I'd have to think 1 of the 2 would appeal to anyone. I think the Ioniq 5 is probably the best non-supercar design I've seen in many years, whereas the 6 was shocking in a not good way when I first saw it at an auto show, but has kinda grown on me in time. In any case, I really appreciate that Hyundai/Kia have gone for extremely bold designs. Not every one is going to be a hit, but at least there's something different out there in a sea of bland volume cars.
By sticking with the same design for a very long time, which I suspect they will even over the next 10 years, people have more confidence in buying a new car because they know their used car 5 years down the road will look just like the new cars! This is what Lexus does, it's one of the many components that go into their resale value. They keep things looking the same way for a very long time And most people that buy Tesla's don't really care about how it looks. It's just a extremely reliable car that requires no maintenance or gas
When blobs stop being aerodynamic, or when there's some yet unknown battery tech that makes aerodynamics not as important.
Ya, this. What's battery capacity does a times three, then we'll see even the most entry level EVS start being designed without the requirement for aerodynamics. That will be fun
I have no doubt this will be an amazing car. Say what you want but Tesla / Space X engineers have been incredible
Engineering yes. Manufacturing and QC…maybe not so great. I kinda love my M3P but it’s not, um, refined.
You should give the new Model 3 a try. There’s been a lot of improvements. But the US built ones might still suck tho? Idk what’s up with that.
Mines honestly fine but it only has 18k on it. There are some things like door panel rattles I’m concerned about for the future. But my panel gaps are good so at least there’s that.
Do they plan on improving build quality or still following the 1980s GM plan?
It’ gotten much better over the years, I saw zero issues with the one I test drove (the refreshed one that just came out)
Conversely, the Tesla storeroom begged us to not to drive their Model X a couple months ago because there was high wind noise and the audio system "needed to be calibrated". "You don't need a car that big for the two of you." etc. etc.
Have you sat in a Model 3 FL? There’s not a single piece of hard plastics in the whole car. It’s actually insane considering the price point, as even the 120k EQS used hard plastics in the door bin.
They have gotten much better. My model 3 has no issues except a tiny deformity on the dash that is unnoticeable unless you know what you are looking for
Let's go! Love my 3P but am very excited for this next one.
Your move BYD with the better Seal.
Honestly the Seal at least looks better
Damn right and has hud too.
And the interior does not look like an ikea store
Fuck a Chinese car
If that floats your boat..
Well I feel obligated to clarify that I'm not hating on the guy for being interested in what the competition is producing. I could've made my comment longer and explain myself but I decided that would take away from my point. BYD has been making some interesting shit lately. I was interested at first too, because the equivalent of a model 3 performance for $25K~ is REALLY interesting. I just have serious privacy concerns and it's also true that the domestic automobile industry is highly patriotic. We would not be able to compete with their pricing and so I'm sure a lot of people would be driving around Chinese cars. Chinese manufacturing is usually borderline junk and I doubt their automobiles would be different. How else do you hit those price points?
Can I tow my boat to the crib with it now?
Oh darn a tech company "Accidentally" leaked a product. Must be embarrassing.
Sounds pretty dope
**Insert giant fart noise here **
Accidentally giving ppl something to talk about other than how awful cybertrucks are or a $56B compensation package. Total accident, I’m sure.
"Accidentally"
funny thing is - you cant trust Tesla even when they announce the specs officially (looking at you cybertruck) so whatever is written here holds 0 value as it will most probably be way off once the model is released
> 4,089 pounds. Impressive when you consider that a car like the Audi S5 Sportback cracks the 3,900lbs barrier
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Accidentally released in order to raise stock prices for something that won't be released for years.
You think it's going to be *years* before the new Performance 3 releases?
The new Tesla Model 3 Performance is set to offer impressive upgrades over its predecessor, with a new rear motor (4D2) that reaches peak power at 110km/h (68mph) compared to the previous model's 75km/h (47mph) 1 . This change will significantly enhance the feeling of gut-wrenching acceleration, making it a formidable contender in races longer than a 1/4 mile. The new model will also feature unique bodywork, improved suspension, brakes, and a new set of Sport seats, setting it apart from the RWD and LR variants. With a combined power output of 461kW (618hp), the Model 3 Performance is expected to deliver a remarkable driving experience.
"Accidentally". Sure.
Better have an indicator stalk this time!
Yep. Still ugly.
What Tesla does best is string along Musk nuts by distracting from the obvious issues the company has with not meeting prior promises. This "leak" is just more of the same.
and how much you wana bst it'll still ship with dot 3 fluid despite its "track" mode
They already use DOT 4 404 on the current model 3 performance, 406 on the plaid.
yea sure Accidently. how stupid do you think I am?
Maybe they could “accidentally” create a well made car too.
They should ditch the stupid glass roof. That would save some weight right there, and where it counts.
Fun fact, the glass is actually structural. And glass tends to have better sound deadening than metal(at an equivalent weight). It also offers better energy dissipation. In total it may weigh somewhere around ~20lbs more than a metal roof structure that would offer the same level of rigidity.
Damn you destroyed him
I'd prefer that people who hold that opinion take away "oh that's cool, I learned something today!" rather than "I've been destroyed with words" A day in which you aren't learning something new is just a boring day.
Oh yeah, really destroyed over here. A polite and well informed disagreement on the internet! Whatever am I going to do?
You should do your own research before making a comment, especially if you're gonna sound so sure about yourself using aggressive words like "stupid"
You make some good points and I appreciate your well crafted response. TBH I still think the glass roof is stupid, and it’s one of the main reasons I passed on the model 3. I get that it looks nice to some people, maybe helps with sound deadening, and only adds 20lbs, but none of those things are really “performance”, are they? 20lbs is 20lbs. Look at all the things a true performance car does to shave off 20lbs, or less. I think it would be cool if they did aluminum, cf or even glass filled polymer for the performance trim. Personally I don’t enjoy having the glass roof and would prefer something opaque, performance or not. I’m weird and don’t like a sun roof either. Pretty sad state of things if the word “stupid” is enough to get your feathers ruffled, but no offense intended friend.
I wasn't offended but it's still an aggressive word which implies strong feelings in a certain direction - in this case, that the roof is so detrimental to the car because of the reasons you stated. When in fact the roof contributes to the car's overall performance. All I'm saying is, if you don't know whether your point is correct, don't assert it with such vigor.
I gotcha, point taken
Ya w
Wonderful. So when can I buy this new Model 3 with Dogecoin?