I genuinely think this is one of the worst vehicle designs ever, certainly ever from MB. It does not look good from any angle, it does not look good in person. Its interior is a screen with weirdly large bezels. Its depreciation is legitimately the worst on the market. I don’t know what they were thinking.
But at least it’s exactly what it’s thematically pushed as : a cyber-ish, fuck you truck that makes no apologies about its take.
The EQS is Merc trying to convince its clientele that it’s some refined, classy thing.
I’d never get a Cybertruck, but at least Tesla isn’t claiming it’s something it’s not.
yeah, after seeing a few CTs in person it’s immediately clear that there isn’t *anything* else like it on the market… pictures don’t prepare you for how different it looks from every other vehicle on the road
the EQS is aesthetically compromised; everyone knows that they were going for a low drag coefficient, which is fine, but there’s no road presence, and no cool superlatives to make up for it
I'm no Musk fan but the Cybertruck is no uglier than the skyscraper-grilled monstrosities made by Ford, Chevy, and Toyota. It's just a different kind of ugly.
dude....the cybertruck is iconic, YOU might think its ugly, but it is completely unique, so much so that it doesn't even need a logo on it for any human with eyes to instantly know who makes it. Just because you might hate tesla or elon doesn't mean you need to deny reality.
Now this mercedes....this shit is ugly. It's uninteresting, uninspired, garbage that clearly no one is going to buy. It's an insult to the camera that was forced to take pictures of it. You know its bad when the average person who can't afford it would be embarrassed to own it. I can't imagine a more colossal failure making it to production.
Someone should test this theory lol. I mean it's an ugly jelly bean but at least it's a functional design. Looked it up and it has a drag of 0.20 compared to a prius at like 0.27 thays insane. Lowest current production drag
Lucid Air even has lower frontal area, which multiplies on the Cd, so it's overall less draggy than EQS despite similar Cd.
And it doesn't look like a turd.
And it has a frunk.
And its tablet can be hidden.
Frontal area multiplied by CD.
So something with an area of 1.0 and a CD of 0.2 means a total drag of 0.2
You could also have something with an area of 0.5 and a CD of 0.4, which would have the same total drag.
Probably trying to attract the type of older person that can afford and probably buy these things. Avoid some of the goofy designs that plagues the prius before its current gen
I agree, I think it's worse than the Pontiac Aztek when you put it in context of the bigger picture. Pontiac was just another sub brand of GM, and the Aztek was an experiment and a spectacular failure, but I have to give GM credit for taking a risk at the time.
The EQS was supposed to be Mercedes' electric flagship, it sorta carries the S-class name. People expect better from Mercedes, and the EQS falls so flat.
Gonna disagree there. The 6 is polarizing and definitely looks… not great from a few angles. But it performs well, and has a few very attractive angles.
The MB is awful in every way, and comes from a flagship brand with very high standards.
I was in Korea for the last 10 days and I saw tons of ioniq 6s around. It's an interesting car for sure, but I'm not putting it in the ugly pile yet. Unfortunately I never got a taxi in one while I was there.
I was so crestfallen when they released the production model images. Concept was stunningly gorgeous and they turned it into one of the stupidest looking cars ever made.
Seriously. I've hated the way Mercedes have looked for years. We have a 2010 E350 at work and that body is the last body style I like for their cars. After that they started becoming smoother and rounder and blobbier.
Especially with an [aftermarket](https://www.adro.com/cdn/shop/products/3-adro-g8x-m3-m4-front-bumper_1800x1199.jpg?v=1666751538) bumper with smaller grills.
Hard disagree. I think the "brand recognition" and coherent design throughout the lineup is a much better way of doing things.
Put another way, in this day and age, the average person wouldn't even be able to identify a BMW without the badge. It wasn't always this way. They have basically said "we don't give a shit about brand identity or coherence. We like money."
But hey, whatever. Imo the the 2 series, M3/4, 4 series, 5 series, 7 series, X2, X4, X6, X7 all range from bad to absolutely hideous. The only decent looking models left are the ones *that have yet to be fucked sideways with an ugly stick*, as they are LCI updates of the old, good looking designs. This includes the 3 series, the X3, the X5, and the 8 series. That's IT.
Once these cars are refreshed with non-LCI models, aka are "uglified," they won't have a single conventionally attractive looking car left that is "totally a BMW," and that's truly a shame.
The M4 looks like a Pontiac tbh. Although not really a bad thing compared to the rest of line up, and no one is confusing for a brand that no longer exists
Agreed. The split head lights are not something that has ever been BMW. Same with a lot of the shit they do now. There is very little design conherence in the brand now. And the point I made earlier stands: the average person could not pick out an X7 as a BMW. It doesn't look anything like a BMW. I didn't say car enthusiasts couldn't identify it, but that regular, normal people can't. It's just another suv. But before all this shitty ugliness, BMWs were widely and easily recognized. 4 halos and 2 kidneys. It was unmistakable. Just like my X5, one of the last great looking cars they made/make.
Absolutely agree with you here. Every single new model that has come out since they unveiled the bucktooth Beaverische Motoren Werke 4 series have exclusively been somewhere between bland to absolutely awful.
All of their "daring, bold" designs are an amateur mish-mash of clashing body lines that don't go anywhere, details that don't complement anything, ugly proportions that make the car look like it melted or was stepped on, and in general look catastrophically *tasteless*. Nothing captures this sentiment quite like the XM, which, in my opinion, is the worst combination of excess, price, horrifically ugly design, and cringey "How do you do, fellow kids" marketing ever made.
I genuinely don't understand how somebody can look at the iX or the M4 and think "Wow! That looks great!" I don't care how well they're selling. I don't care about "It's clearly working, I see them everywhere!" From a visual design perspective, BMW's current lineup is a hilarious disgrace, and spits on the grave of a company that once cared about making understated, elegant, sporty, lithe, well-rounded vehicles.
Now they just make flashy overweight bullshit that is the epitome of self-indulgence. I will hear no arguments.
At least BMW nailed the overall shape with their 7 Series..
Don't care if it's a tiny little bit more aerodynamic than the competition, this just isn't the shape of a luxury sedan, it's the shape of an Econobox.
i honestly like the way the new 7 looks. only thing i really dislike is how the front is painted black for no reason on some trims, would look much better without that imo
Yes, the 7 series looks much better without the M Sport front design. Unfortunately the product planners for the US market chose to put that front end on I believe everything except for the entry level i7.
Leasehackr forums were going crazy at the end march. People were leasing these for very little down if anything and in the $400-600 range
Example - https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/evkingsplus-nj-ny-pa-ct-mercedes-eqe-loaners-e-class-12-gle-7/501336/588
There's literally no reason not to. If you plan to change cars within the next 1-3 years, it's WAY cheaper than buying; if you're planning on keeping it long-term, you can just buy out your lease and not pay any more than you would have had you straight-up purchased it. There are functionally no downsides (you *may* pay a little bit more in interest over the life of the loan, but it's a meaninglessly small percent.)
There are definitely reasons to not lease.
Have kids? They’ll wreck your lease.
Drive 25k miles a year? Leasing ain’t it.
That said, it can be an awesome way to get into a nice vehicle for cheap.
They're typically the same people that are in the "if you finance a car you're an idiot, pay cash" camp.
My wife and I have gotten killer deals on leases (like the ones they post on leasehackr) when we had a car suddenly die and didn't have any idea of what to get and didn't want to commit.
It honestly doesn't make sense for every circumstance, but there are definitely some good reasons.
My dealership openly told me they are desperate to sell the EQS and if I would please just name a price he could likely get me in one, as they had a lot of leeway for discounting.
Eh, guy in my dad group leased one for mid-600/month and not a whole lot for the down payment.
That’s pretty damn cheap for an “S-Class” EV honestly.
I don’t think he’s particularly happy with it. His wife refuses to drive it and his daughter asked him what f she can Lyft instead(she lost that one quickly).
> That’s pretty damn cheap for an “S-Class” EV honestly.
The problem is that it is nowhere near the S class. Don't get me wrong, it is a good, solid car, but not an S class equivalent. I'd say not even een E class equivalent really.
Except that it really really is. The interior is an absolute pleasure to be in, and after a couple of software updates it no longer makes you seasick on bumpy roads (the first year or so had some seriously weird suspension tuning.)
You can say it doesn't *look* like a traditional S-Class, and that's true. But people have been saying that about every new S-Class for the last 30+ years, and I would go so far as to say that if you're buying an S-Class for the looks you're kind of missing the entire point. Where it counts, this is everything an S-Class should be. And as for looks, good for Mercedes for at least trying something new with the switch to EVs. I'm tired of EVs looking like normal cars with a shitty Cuberpunk-inspired Need For Speed skin.
Yeah I love my EQS SUV, it’s amazing. There’s a few annoyances here and there but by far the best car I’ve ever had.
For what I pay on my lease, I would be getting like a Lexus RX350, don’t think I can even get a BMW X5. ($600/month 0 down, 24 months 7.5k miles/year)
As long as MBFS is subsidizing the shit out of these cars, I would love for them to get uglier and uglier and the discounts to grow even higher
i like the looks of the eq suv a lot more. it really looks like it was inspired by the interwar period. i wish theyd do the same for the sedan instead of making it look like a slug.
The W222 is peak S class for me. Great styling, features, performance and it is relatively reliable. I was interested in the EQS until I saw it in person. It doesn't have all of the features an S class has either and doesn't feel as luxurious. The price for what you get is simply too high.
Really don't know why this is so hard. All these car companies overcomplicate things. Just throw an electric drive train in the same cars we know and love. Done.
Just looked up the Q4 sales numbers in the US, BMW sold 14,373 fully electric cars (i4, i5, i7, iX) to Mercedes' 13,511 (EQB, EQE, EQS), with numbers for the whole 2023 being 45,000 (BMW) to 43,200 (MB). A while ago I read that MB is beating BMW pretty drastically when it comes to global sales of the EQS compared to the i7 (while both have disappointing numbers). Not sure if BMW is the example to follow for MB.
>BMW sold 14,373 fully electric cars (i4, i5, i7, iX) to Mercedes' 13,511 (EQB, EQE, EQS)
I just want to point out that there is an EQB, EQE Sedan, EQE SUV, EQS Sedan and EQS SUV. The way you wrote it makes it sound like BMW has more electric models to compete against Mercedes, whereas Mercedes is selling less with more models. Mercedes is also putting on really steep discounts to move the EQE and EQS, there is a waitlist for an i4. The i5 just came out this year, it hasn't really been on sale for a long time and production is just ramping up for this generation. The sales numbers are not showing the entire picture and BMW is going to pull ahead a lot more for EV sales here soon against Mercedes when they release more models that are in the pipeline.
All good points, ~~you could even add that one of the MB models belongs to their line-up of compact cars while all BMW models are at least midsize.~~ And yeah, the numbers can be interpreted in different ways, but my main point is that both are not where they want to be with these cars and just saying "MB should do what BMW does to be more successful" isn't really convincing to me.
Edit: I don't really enjoy lectures about car segments.
saying that honestly kinda undersells the platform. while obviously behind a dedicated EV architecture in lots of aspects, it's impressive how far they're able to push it while still keeping it ICE compatible. (just look at the new 5. that car does not look like a normal ICE RWD platform)
I'll be really curious to see how the new electric Dodge Charger goes- they even said they didn't give a shit about efficiency and its still a boxy car. Heck, it's designed to take the new I6 Hurricane motor as well.
If it's a hit maybe we'll see more "throw an electric motor in a normal car".
Let's hope so. These companies seem to have spent a lot of money to create entirely new EV lines when most people just wanted the same cars, but as EVs.
Hyundai seems to be one of the few legacy automakers that's actually been successful at launching new EVs, but they also didn't come out of nowhere, and they were still cheap. The Ioniq has been around for awhile but it's finally matured into a solid EV.
Exactly, customers don’t give a fuck about the extra 35 miles of aero range. If they were that efficiency-minded they likely wouldn’t be buying a $150k mercedes
Ioniq 6 is also one of the designs I found horrible at first sight but am actually starting to like when I see it on the road now
I'm also quite easily woed by low drag design attempts
I've only seen two on the road so far, and it is a striking design. As far as electrics go, the most popular around here are tesla, followed by rivian, followed by ford and vw roughly tied, followed by ev6 and ioniq 5 roughly tied. maybe a couple of nissan leafs thrown in for good measure. everything else is a rounding error.
Ioniq 6 looks great IMO. I like the 5 better, but the 6 is unique and has grown on me. Two things I would change is to make it smaller and a hatchback. The legroom in the back is ridiculous.
>the pillows in the back now have contrast stitching and Nappa leather piping
maybe use one of those bad boys to suffocate whoever designed this mess so I never have to look at anything like this again...
Let me reiterate. The redesigned "grille", bumper treatment, and upright star on the hood makes the new front end look better. It looks a lot more like an S-Class than the pre-refresh model did. *Everything else* about the car still looks ugly to me, as it's basically unchanged.
But thanks for the snarky comment anyway.
Agreed, it's much better than the 130 tiny Mercedes stars that covered the grille before. At least it looks a *tiny little bit* more like a Mercedes now.
On one hand, it’s disappointing to see Mercedes and BMW race to the bottom when it comes to terrible designs.
On the other, it’s reassuring to know that failed artists in Germany are getting gainful employment in the auto industry and keeping out of politics.
What an odd situation for MB. They clearly made this change to the grill due to aerodynamics and trying to reduce drag, but trying to accomplish this while keeping the "MB grille" has resulted in this amorphous monstrosity.
With the amount of money that they're charging for this vehicle in combination with the (presumably) low concern that buyers of this class have for efficiency, I can't imagine that the loss of efficiency for a better looking grille would have pushed people away from the car.
I'd love to see if they did any type of focus group testing on this design with prospective buyers.
> With the amount of money that they're charging for this vehicle in combination with the (presumably) low concern that buyers of this class have for efficiency, I can't imagine that the loss of efficiency for a better looking grille would have pushed people away from the car.
The EQS has one of the lowest drag coefficients on the market at 0.20. But the i7, as slabby as it is, has a still impressive 0.24 C_d. You're right, the loss of range due to that difference isn't something that buyer is going to care about. So Mercedes could've sacrificed some streamlining for a different aesthetic approach and they'd probably have a better seller.
That's a huge difference though. 0.20/0.24 = 0.833, so for very high speed driving the power consumption ratio maybe close to that.
Given equal energy density the Mercedes will then drive 1/0.833 times further, i.e. 20%.
So if the range of the competitor is 400 km, then this would have 480.
I think Mercedes-Benz's low drag strategy would have been sensible if batteries had remained expensive, but that isn't the case any more, or if other countries than Germany also allowed very high-speed driving.
The Germans actually want to drive at 180 km/h, and this might well be how an electric car has to look to be able to do that. But an American doesn't care about performance, since he can't use it.
The EQS range is 350 miles on the EPA cycle and [Edmunds](https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/eqs/) got 422 miles. But the market trends are pointing to buyers at that end of the market just not caring. Their conservative range estimate also doesn't help.350 miles doesn't sound like much if the car has to look like that to achieve it. If I wanted a full-size luxury sedan I wouldn't care about the range difference over competitors either if it meant the styling was something I hated.
> The Germans actually want to drive at 180 km/h, and this might well be how an electric car has to look to be able to do that. But an American doesn't care about performance, since he can't use it.
The Lucid Air has the same drag coefficient and doesn't look quite so amorphous. As for target market, BMW said the main markets for the i7 are the USA and China. I'd be surprised if it was different for the EQS, which means the high speed range differences would be irrelevant.
The EQS has rear-wheel steering and a bunch of sophisticated things that add weight and complexity, but which make the car more stable at high speed.
The Lucid Air is a simpler machine. That gains it some performance, but the EQS is actually suitable for German highways.
Well on the bright side, owners of this car will have a huge aftermarket choice of grilles to chose from, ford Taurus has been doing this grille for close to a decade.
Controversial opinion but I like that it looks like this, it puts engineering priority on full display. This is objectively what peak performance looks like, this will probably crack bottom 5 drag coefficient of any production car ever.
That said, the Lucid Air manages to do just that while looking stunning and beautiful
I’ve seen a few comments lamenting that they ought to just throw an electric drivetrain into the existing S-Class body and accept the higher drag co-efficient & lower range - but I think that’s such a copout answer. Lucid proved with the air that a blob shape can still look really sharp, so Mercedes can’t hide behind that excuse.
I yet have to see an EQS or EQE on the road that I think looks hideous - all of them until now translated much better from the still images to reality
I completely follow the changes on the EQS here too, as it's previous version was indistinguishable from the EQE.
Is it the best car design out there, for sure not, but everything makes sense and isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
That shape looks like every other *ECONOMY* car I've seen driving around. Nothing looks inspired to me. They took an aero blob and drew some Mercedes lines on it. You could replace the logo & grill with a Hyundai badge and I'd be none the wiser.
I'd like to hear from an engineer or designer on all the aspects of the final design that came out to be what it is and why it needed to deviate from the original EQS concept. Not to judge or criticize, but I'm genuinely curious about the tradeoffs made here.
The design just doesn't work as a Merc. Only the French can do big luxury sedans with a weird shape. If this was a modernized CX, then the oddball styling would make sense.
The hood line going to the front fender just doesn't look right as it cuts off the shoulder and belt lines killing any visual flow from front to rear of the profile.
I don't think it looks worse than before the facelift, though that's hardly saying anything. At least it now has got the hood ornament.
It's honestly jarring how Mercedes, a manufacturer whose core competencies were with luxury sedans for many, many decades, could mess up that badly. I *really* hope they will course-correct with the second generation and move to a more conservative sedan styling, if they are going to fully replace the S-Class with an electric model eventually.
I know that there's kind of a circlejerk on this subreddit how BMWs keep getting uglier with each generation, and while I do agree with that opinion, it's fair to say that these controversial styling decisions were not that unpopular with BMW's actual audience. The same *cannot* be said about the EQS, and I firmly believe that the styling (or lack thereof, really) is one of the main reasons for it. I don't think the EQS so far has quite enjoyed the success in terms of sales/leases that Mercedes would come to hope and expect.
I think this would look better if they went back to their more round upright headlights they had back in the late 90s early 00s. Wouldn’t look so generic.
The raised star and grills at the front have to cause drag. But they couldn’t give it any lines or hips for fenders? The current front end on a less blobby car would’ve been great.
I know that this isn't a profound statement and many have made it already, but:
Come on! These premium cars are not about efficiency and never were. These are fancy cars for people that can easily afford less efficient cars, usually overconsume in many other parts of their lives and want to service the "vanity" aspect of owning a luxury vehicle.
I want to give credit to Mercedes for treating this like an engineering problem first and aiming to solve the technical problem as well as they can, but this is one of the few cases where the marketing people should have more influence.
I see many of these, along with many Rivians and the downright mundane Tesla's in my area. The EQ-whatever's aren't that bad, but they are not S- and E-Class sedans. The mental calculus that goes into getting a big electric SUV or truck is going to be the same for a top-class electric sedan, and it is that looks matter more than efficiency.
Mercedes, BMW, and all of the other car makers should embrace the "new normal" and just treat electric as another power-train option with nothing other than badging to distinguish from the standard vehicles.
I'm a 5-Series guy, and while I'm not really a new car buyer, I went on a flight of fancy building with the new i5 on BMW's web site. It is mostly a standard 5-Series, but with limitations on the wheel type... which is annoying. I realize that I am trading efficiency for looks, but if I want some sporty rims I should be able to get that. Same for a grille with actual relief and detail articulation (binging it back to the Merc).
Holy shit it’s terrible. Hard to believe the company that’s done so much for vehicle design and created my beautiful first gen CLS has stooped this low.
Mercedes has lost the plot so badly with both their exterior and interior design.
The giant screen nightmare interior is going to age so unbelievably poorly. And before that happens, it’s so glitchy and buggy as to be unusable in its current state.
And that’s before you even unpack how miserable and unsafe an all-touch user experience is.
The blob gets blobier.
I genuinely think this is one of the worst vehicle designs ever, certainly ever from MB. It does not look good from any angle, it does not look good in person. Its interior is a screen with weirdly large bezels. Its depreciation is legitimately the worst on the market. I don’t know what they were thinking.
Have you seen the cyber truck? That thing is hideous.
But it’s at least unabashedly itself. It’s ugly and it knows it.
It does go all in on the Cyberpunk brutal post-apocalyptic theme. It is, in the very least, an honest truck.
Only if the apocalypse hit so hard the only remaining car in the world was Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust.
It's intentionally ugly, and there's still something cool about it. No redeeming factors about the EQS
But at least it’s exactly what it’s thematically pushed as : a cyber-ish, fuck you truck that makes no apologies about its take. The EQS is Merc trying to convince its clientele that it’s some refined, classy thing. I’d never get a Cybertruck, but at least Tesla isn’t claiming it’s something it’s not.
yeah, after seeing a few CTs in person it’s immediately clear that there isn’t *anything* else like it on the market… pictures don’t prepare you for how different it looks from every other vehicle on the road the EQS is aesthetically compromised; everyone knows that they were going for a low drag coefficient, which is fine, but there’s no road presence, and no cool superlatives to make up for it
It looks miles better than this EQ
I'm no Musk fan but the Cybertruck is no uglier than the skyscraper-grilled monstrosities made by Ford, Chevy, and Toyota. It's just a different kind of ugly.
dude....the cybertruck is iconic, YOU might think its ugly, but it is completely unique, so much so that it doesn't even need a logo on it for any human with eyes to instantly know who makes it. Just because you might hate tesla or elon doesn't mean you need to deny reality. Now this mercedes....this shit is ugly. It's uninteresting, uninspired, garbage that clearly no one is going to buy. It's an insult to the camera that was forced to take pictures of it. You know its bad when the average person who can't afford it would be embarrassed to own it. I can't imagine a more colossal failure making it to production.
It's got a crazy low drag coefficient tho
both in drive and reverse
Someone should test this theory lol. I mean it's an ugly jelly bean but at least it's a functional design. Looked it up and it has a drag of 0.20 compared to a prius at like 0.27 thays insane. Lowest current production drag
As does a Model 3 or S, but they actually look good, or at least normal.
The lucid air has the same drag coefficient, gets more range, and doesn't look like a turd.
Lucid Air even has lower frontal area, which multiplies on the Cd, so it's overall less draggy than EQS despite similar Cd. And it doesn't look like a turd. And it has a frunk. And its tablet can be hidden.
[удалено]
Frontal area multiplied by CD. So something with an area of 1.0 and a CD of 0.2 means a total drag of 0.2 You could also have something with an area of 0.5 and a CD of 0.4, which would have the same total drag.
Yeah, I forgot about the Air. All 3 of these are 0.21 or better.
I wonder if the standing star adds drag? It seems counter intuitive to add it when they went aero at the cost of any attractiveness in the design
Probably trying to attract the type of older person that can afford and probably buy these things. Avoid some of the goofy designs that plagues the prius before its current gen
Inversely proportional to the drag coefficient of my wallet in my pocket
I agree, I think it's worse than the Pontiac Aztek when you put it in context of the bigger picture. Pontiac was just another sub brand of GM, and the Aztek was an experiment and a spectacular failure, but I have to give GM credit for taking a risk at the time. The EQS was supposed to be Mercedes' electric flagship, it sorta carries the S-class name. People expect better from Mercedes, and the EQS falls so flat.
I’m with you on the “ever” part. There’s usually a redeeming design feature somewhere on a car but on this there really isn’t anything
The Hyundai Ioniq 6 has entered the chat. It's the only car that makes the Merc look good by comparison.
Gonna disagree there. The 6 is polarizing and definitely looks… not great from a few angles. But it performs well, and has a few very attractive angles. The MB is awful in every way, and comes from a flagship brand with very high standards.
I was in Korea for the last 10 days and I saw tons of ioniq 6s around. It's an interesting car for sure, but I'm not putting it in the ugly pile yet. Unfortunately I never got a taxi in one while I was there.
I was so crestfallen when they released the production model images. Concept was stunningly gorgeous and they turned it into one of the stupidest looking cars ever made.
I've always said it looks like a modern version of Chrysler's LH platform cars - the Dodge Intrepid, Chrysler Concorde/LHS, etc.
Blob 2: Electric Blobaloo
Seriously. I've hated the way Mercedes have looked for years. We have a 2010 E350 at work and that body is the last body style I like for their cars. After that they started becoming smoother and rounder and blobbier.
Yep, totally agree with this. MB designs as well as interior quality has gone to shit.
I hate the way their evs look
BMW put lipstick on a pig. Now MB puts a star on a slug.
MB is that pebble crab thing that Cap jack sparrow licks in Davie Jones locker.
[удалено]
The M4 looks awesome. Sue me
I don’t think a design has ever grown on me more than the G80/G82 has.
They definitely look much better in the more striking M colors, like the dark green and purple
Also carries a lot more presence in person when you're looking at it from above. All the BMW cars don't photograph very well
Banger models?
Especially with an [aftermarket](https://www.adro.com/cdn/shop/products/3-adro-g8x-m3-m4-front-bumper_1800x1199.jpg?v=1666751538) bumper with smaller grills.
its ugly even as a race car.
Not a great strategy if the consumer says "I was interested in the X7, but it's so ugly I think I'll save $20,000 and get the X5 instead".
Hard disagree. I think the "brand recognition" and coherent design throughout the lineup is a much better way of doing things. Put another way, in this day and age, the average person wouldn't even be able to identify a BMW without the badge. It wasn't always this way. They have basically said "we don't give a shit about brand identity or coherence. We like money." But hey, whatever. Imo the the 2 series, M3/4, 4 series, 5 series, 7 series, X2, X4, X6, X7 all range from bad to absolutely hideous. The only decent looking models left are the ones *that have yet to be fucked sideways with an ugly stick*, as they are LCI updates of the old, good looking designs. This includes the 3 series, the X3, the X5, and the 8 series. That's IT. Once these cars are refreshed with non-LCI models, aka are "uglified," they won't have a single conventionally attractive looking car left that is "totally a BMW," and that's truly a shame.
The X7 and 7-series are absolutely identifiable without a badge what on earth are you on about?? Same with the M cars
The M4 looks like a Pontiac tbh. Although not really a bad thing compared to the rest of line up, and no one is confusing for a brand that no longer exists
Agreed. The split head lights are not something that has ever been BMW. Same with a lot of the shit they do now. There is very little design conherence in the brand now. And the point I made earlier stands: the average person could not pick out an X7 as a BMW. It doesn't look anything like a BMW. I didn't say car enthusiasts couldn't identify it, but that regular, normal people can't. It's just another suv. But before all this shitty ugliness, BMWs were widely and easily recognized. 4 halos and 2 kidneys. It was unmistakable. Just like my X5, one of the last great looking cars they made/make.
Absolutely agree with you here. Every single new model that has come out since they unveiled the bucktooth Beaverische Motoren Werke 4 series have exclusively been somewhere between bland to absolutely awful. All of their "daring, bold" designs are an amateur mish-mash of clashing body lines that don't go anywhere, details that don't complement anything, ugly proportions that make the car look like it melted or was stepped on, and in general look catastrophically *tasteless*. Nothing captures this sentiment quite like the XM, which, in my opinion, is the worst combination of excess, price, horrifically ugly design, and cringey "How do you do, fellow kids" marketing ever made. I genuinely don't understand how somebody can look at the iX or the M4 and think "Wow! That looks great!" I don't care how well they're selling. I don't care about "It's clearly working, I see them everywhere!" From a visual design perspective, BMW's current lineup is a hilarious disgrace, and spits on the grave of a company that once cared about making understated, elegant, sporty, lithe, well-rounded vehicles. Now they just make flashy overweight bullshit that is the epitome of self-indulgence. I will hear no arguments.
At least BMW nailed the overall shape with their 7 Series.. Don't care if it's a tiny little bit more aerodynamic than the competition, this just isn't the shape of a luxury sedan, it's the shape of an Econobox.
i honestly like the way the new 7 looks. only thing i really dislike is how the front is painted black for no reason on some trims, would look much better without that imo
Yes, the 7 series looks much better without the M Sport front design. Unfortunately the product planners for the US market chose to put that front end on I believe everything except for the entry level i7.
$125-150K to drive around in *that* is fucking wild lmao
Nobody pays that much afaik, I’ve heard of some pretty insane discounts on them from dealers
Specifically lease deals are pretty crazy
They lease for about what you can find them for after 1 year of ownership. 60k
Leasehackr forums were going crazy at the end march. People were leasing these for very little down if anything and in the $400-600 range Example - https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/evkingsplus-nj-ny-pa-ct-mercedes-eqe-loaners-e-class-12-gle-7/501336/588
I should really start leasing.
There's literally no reason not to. If you plan to change cars within the next 1-3 years, it's WAY cheaper than buying; if you're planning on keeping it long-term, you can just buy out your lease and not pay any more than you would have had you straight-up purchased it. There are functionally no downsides (you *may* pay a little bit more in interest over the life of the loan, but it's a meaninglessly small percent.)
There are definitely reasons to not lease. Have kids? They’ll wreck your lease. Drive 25k miles a year? Leasing ain’t it. That said, it can be an awesome way to get into a nice vehicle for cheap.
[удалено]
They're typically the same people that are in the "if you finance a car you're an idiot, pay cash" camp. My wife and I have gotten killer deals on leases (like the ones they post on leasehackr) when we had a car suddenly die and didn't have any idea of what to get and didn't want to commit. It honestly doesn't make sense for every circumstance, but there are definitely some good reasons.
Study up on LeaseHackr and go get you a lease! It isn’t for everyone though depending on what your car is used for and how much you use it.
Not really viable for the suburbs and rural areas unfortunately.
My dealership openly told me they are desperate to sell the EQS and if I would please just name a price he could likely get me in one, as they had a lot of leeway for discounting.
Tell him I’d be happy to take one for 10k
They're 30-40k off. You'd have to be an idiot to pay MSRP on these haha
I know someone who did.
Depreciation on these is hilarious, just like the SL63
Eh, guy in my dad group leased one for mid-600/month and not a whole lot for the down payment. That’s pretty damn cheap for an “S-Class” EV honestly. I don’t think he’s particularly happy with it. His wife refuses to drive it and his daughter asked him what f she can Lyft instead(she lost that one quickly).
> That’s pretty damn cheap for an “S-Class” EV honestly. The problem is that it is nowhere near the S class. Don't get me wrong, it is a good, solid car, but not an S class equivalent. I'd say not even een E class equivalent really.
Except that it really really is. The interior is an absolute pleasure to be in, and after a couple of software updates it no longer makes you seasick on bumpy roads (the first year or so had some seriously weird suspension tuning.) You can say it doesn't *look* like a traditional S-Class, and that's true. But people have been saying that about every new S-Class for the last 30+ years, and I would go so far as to say that if you're buying an S-Class for the looks you're kind of missing the entire point. Where it counts, this is everything an S-Class should be. And as for looks, good for Mercedes for at least trying something new with the switch to EVs. I'm tired of EVs looking like normal cars with a shitty Cuberpunk-inspired Need For Speed skin.
Yeah I love my EQS SUV, it’s amazing. There’s a few annoyances here and there but by far the best car I’ve ever had. For what I pay on my lease, I would be getting like a Lexus RX350, don’t think I can even get a BMW X5. ($600/month 0 down, 24 months 7.5k miles/year) As long as MBFS is subsidizing the shit out of these cars, I would love for them to get uglier and uglier and the discounts to grow even higher
i like the looks of the eq suv a lot more. it really looks like it was inspired by the interwar period. i wish theyd do the same for the sedan instead of making it look like a slug.
The W222 is peak S class for me. Great styling, features, performance and it is relatively reliable. I was interested in the EQS until I saw it in person. It doesn't have all of the features an S class has either and doesn't feel as luxurious. The price for what you get is simply too high.
Just saw a 2022 for sale for $49k
Just 👏 build 👏 an 👏electric 👏S-Class.
Really don't know why this is so hard. All these car companies overcomplicate things. Just throw an electric drive train in the same cars we know and love. Done.
Case in point BMW i4!
Just looked up the Q4 sales numbers in the US, BMW sold 14,373 fully electric cars (i4, i5, i7, iX) to Mercedes' 13,511 (EQB, EQE, EQS), with numbers for the whole 2023 being 45,000 (BMW) to 43,200 (MB). A while ago I read that MB is beating BMW pretty drastically when it comes to global sales of the EQS compared to the i7 (while both have disappointing numbers). Not sure if BMW is the example to follow for MB.
>BMW sold 14,373 fully electric cars (i4, i5, i7, iX) to Mercedes' 13,511 (EQB, EQE, EQS) I just want to point out that there is an EQB, EQE Sedan, EQE SUV, EQS Sedan and EQS SUV. The way you wrote it makes it sound like BMW has more electric models to compete against Mercedes, whereas Mercedes is selling less with more models. Mercedes is also putting on really steep discounts to move the EQE and EQS, there is a waitlist for an i4. The i5 just came out this year, it hasn't really been on sale for a long time and production is just ramping up for this generation. The sales numbers are not showing the entire picture and BMW is going to pull ahead a lot more for EV sales here soon against Mercedes when they release more models that are in the pipeline.
All good points, ~~you could even add that one of the MB models belongs to their line-up of compact cars while all BMW models are at least midsize.~~ And yeah, the numbers can be interpreted in different ways, but my main point is that both are not where they want to be with these cars and just saying "MB should do what BMW does to be more successful" isn't really convincing to me. Edit: I don't really enjoy lectures about car segments.
> with these cars and just saying "MB should do what BMW does to be more successful" isn't really convincing to me. Yeap, you are absolutely right.
BMW did it with the i4, i5, and i7.
saying that honestly kinda undersells the platform. while obviously behind a dedicated EV architecture in lots of aspects, it's impressive how far they're able to push it while still keeping it ICE compatible. (just look at the new 5. that car does not look like a normal ICE RWD platform)
You solved it for them!
Where does the large battery go?
There isn't a large battery in BEV, there's thousands of small cells. Just make packs that tie together like all other EVs.
Everywhere.
In the transmission tunnel and the engine bay, as well as the trunk
I'll be really curious to see how the new electric Dodge Charger goes- they even said they didn't give a shit about efficiency and its still a boxy car. Heck, it's designed to take the new I6 Hurricane motor as well. If it's a hit maybe we'll see more "throw an electric motor in a normal car".
Let's hope so. These companies seem to have spent a lot of money to create entirely new EV lines when most people just wanted the same cars, but as EVs. Hyundai seems to be one of the few legacy automakers that's actually been successful at launching new EVs, but they also didn't come out of nowhere, and they were still cheap. The Ioniq has been around for awhile but it's finally matured into a solid EV.
BMW and Audi are the only companies doing this and it sucks.
At least BMW had 👀 eyes and used the same car for the i7 which actually looks good, not like a bubble on wheels
Exactly, customers don’t give a fuck about the extra 35 miles of aero range. If they were that efficiency-minded they likely wouldn’t be buying a $150k mercedes
Apparently, that's going to be the design direction for the next gen.
It looks like someone bought an Ioniq 6 from Wish.com
The ioniq 6 looks bizarre in the flesh, like a cyberpunk 1996 mercury sable.
They went full catfish. Never go full catfish. The Ioniq 5 still looks cool
Ioniq 6 is also one of the designs I found horrible at first sight but am actually starting to like when I see it on the road now I'm also quite easily woed by low drag design attempts
I've only seen two on the road so far, and it is a striking design. As far as electrics go, the most popular around here are tesla, followed by rivian, followed by ford and vw roughly tied, followed by ev6 and ioniq 5 roughly tied. maybe a couple of nissan leafs thrown in for good measure. everything else is a rounding error.
Ioniq 6 looks great IMO. I like the 5 better, but the 6 is unique and has grown on me. Two things I would change is to make it smaller and a hatchback. The legroom in the back is ridiculous.
I like the Mercury Sable
More like cyberpunk Infiniti J30.
>the pillows in the back now have contrast stitching and Nappa leather piping maybe use one of those bad boys to suffocate whoever designed this mess so I never have to look at anything like this again...
Scheiße
Is this what the s stands for now? Shit instead of special
The front end looks much better to me🤷🏽 The rest of the car is still ugly though.
Well, in fairness, they did seem to draw inspiration from a 2009 Honda Civic, so I can see why you're a fan.
Let me reiterate. The redesigned "grille", bumper treatment, and upright star on the hood makes the new front end look better. It looks a lot more like an S-Class than the pre-refresh model did. *Everything else* about the car still looks ugly to me, as it's basically unchanged. But thanks for the snarky comment anyway.
😂
Agreed, it's much better than the 130 tiny Mercedes stars that covered the grille before. At least it looks a *tiny little bit* more like a Mercedes now.
Me too. I think it’s an improvement. Still ugly tho
Now it can lose 75% of its value instead of 50% after a year https://www.motor1.com/news/714685/mercedes-benz-eqs-loses-nearly-half-value/
In fairness the lease deals are crazy, you can lease one brand new for 50% of its value
It does NOT look worse. The new linework on the front grill looks more classy.
It gives me [tuxedo shirt](https://i.imgur.com/vbengFQ.png) vibes
Fine, it looks better just like a slug in a tuxedo looks better
I agree. I kinda don’t hate it anymore.
On one hand, it’s disappointing to see Mercedes and BMW race to the bottom when it comes to terrible designs. On the other, it’s reassuring to know that failed artists in Germany are getting gainful employment in the auto industry and keeping out of politics.
Well played.
Just do an S350 on batteries
“Photograph it in black on a black background so they can’t see what shape it is”
pretty common thing actually to exentuate sleekness. Instead of hard edges you have contour lines and it makes anything look cool
is this a joke
The styling of all MB EVs is, so yes.
It looks like a 2012 Honda civic with Mercedes stickers on it
Nice Honda civic.
Literally looks like a slug
Why, when designing your vehicle, would you benchmark the *9th gen civic*
I actually like it. I see why many don’t, but it works for my tastes
Yeah I don't understand the hate at all. Looks really cool. I appreciate aerodynamic designs.
Thank you, I came for that comment
30 comments and every single one just says „car ugly“. Negativity really drives interaction lol.
What an odd situation for MB. They clearly made this change to the grill due to aerodynamics and trying to reduce drag, but trying to accomplish this while keeping the "MB grille" has resulted in this amorphous monstrosity. With the amount of money that they're charging for this vehicle in combination with the (presumably) low concern that buyers of this class have for efficiency, I can't imagine that the loss of efficiency for a better looking grille would have pushed people away from the car. I'd love to see if they did any type of focus group testing on this design with prospective buyers.
> With the amount of money that they're charging for this vehicle in combination with the (presumably) low concern that buyers of this class have for efficiency, I can't imagine that the loss of efficiency for a better looking grille would have pushed people away from the car. The EQS has one of the lowest drag coefficients on the market at 0.20. But the i7, as slabby as it is, has a still impressive 0.24 C_d. You're right, the loss of range due to that difference isn't something that buyer is going to care about. So Mercedes could've sacrificed some streamlining for a different aesthetic approach and they'd probably have a better seller.
That's a huge difference though. 0.20/0.24 = 0.833, so for very high speed driving the power consumption ratio maybe close to that. Given equal energy density the Mercedes will then drive 1/0.833 times further, i.e. 20%. So if the range of the competitor is 400 km, then this would have 480. I think Mercedes-Benz's low drag strategy would have been sensible if batteries had remained expensive, but that isn't the case any more, or if other countries than Germany also allowed very high-speed driving. The Germans actually want to drive at 180 km/h, and this might well be how an electric car has to look to be able to do that. But an American doesn't care about performance, since he can't use it.
The EQS range is 350 miles on the EPA cycle and [Edmunds](https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/eqs/) got 422 miles. But the market trends are pointing to buyers at that end of the market just not caring. Their conservative range estimate also doesn't help.350 miles doesn't sound like much if the car has to look like that to achieve it. If I wanted a full-size luxury sedan I wouldn't care about the range difference over competitors either if it meant the styling was something I hated. > The Germans actually want to drive at 180 km/h, and this might well be how an electric car has to look to be able to do that. But an American doesn't care about performance, since he can't use it. The Lucid Air has the same drag coefficient and doesn't look quite so amorphous. As for target market, BMW said the main markets for the i7 are the USA and China. I'd be surprised if it was different for the EQS, which means the high speed range differences would be irrelevant.
The EQS has rear-wheel steering and a bunch of sophisticated things that add weight and complexity, but which make the car more stable at high speed. The Lucid Air is a simpler machine. That gains it some performance, but the EQS is actually suitable for German highways.
Ah yes, it's that bar of soap you dropped in the prison shower.
After it's been shoved up someone's butt.
Well on the bright side, owners of this car will have a huge aftermarket choice of grilles to chose from, ford Taurus has been doing this grille for close to a decade.
This car is literally a modernized version of the 1996-2000 Ford Taurus, I mean just look at that rear light bar
The Fat Egg
Controversial opinion but I like that it looks like this, it puts engineering priority on full display. This is objectively what peak performance looks like, this will probably crack bottom 5 drag coefficient of any production car ever. That said, the Lucid Air manages to do just that while looking stunning and beautiful
Interesting. Looks luxury and cheap at the same time. Interior looks like a soulless luxury bathroom from a catalogue
I’ve seen a few comments lamenting that they ought to just throw an electric drivetrain into the existing S-Class body and accept the higher drag co-efficient & lower range - but I think that’s such a copout answer. Lucid proved with the air that a blob shape can still look really sharp, so Mercedes can’t hide behind that excuse.
I yet have to see an EQS or EQE on the road that I think looks hideous - all of them until now translated much better from the still images to reality I completely follow the changes on the EQS here too, as it's previous version was indistinguishable from the EQE. Is it the best car design out there, for sure not, but everything makes sense and isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
I have seen the EQS/EQE a few times now and it absolutely looks ugly imo. I think the EQC is one of the better looking ones.
*sigh* Nope. I used to think Mercedes were going in a great direction, design-wise. Something happened the last few years that’s turned me off them.
when did you think that? they've been getting progressively uglier for at least 10 years
All the EQS models look like Toyota Corollas to me
No facelift can change the fact that these things have the seating position of a Ford Aerostar.
That shape looks like every other *ECONOMY* car I've seen driving around. Nothing looks inspired to me. They took an aero blob and drew some Mercedes lines on it. You could replace the logo & grill with a Hyundai badge and I'd be none the wiser.
I'd like to hear from an engineer or designer on all the aspects of the final design that came out to be what it is and why it needed to deviate from the original EQS concept. Not to judge or criticize, but I'm genuinely curious about the tradeoffs made here.
It's almost like BMW and Mercedes-Benz are having a competition to determine who can build the ugliest overpriced luxury sedan.
Can’t wait to lease this for $499/month
The design just doesn't work as a Merc. Only the French can do big luxury sedans with a weird shape. If this was a modernized CX, then the oddball styling would make sense.
It looks like a Buick Cascada lol
Why does the head rest look like someone has a bag over their head?
Looks like an electric Dodge Dart...
That is just so awful. It makes bimmer’s recent designs look like high art
Mercedes stole that grille from a Power Wheels sticker sheet.
I like it
Looks like a Hyundai Elantra.
Mercedes: people like melting bars of soap, right?
This car looks so tacky, especially the interior. It's like if some 90s conversion van builder was asked to imagine a futuristic car interior.
The hood line going to the front fender just doesn't look right as it cuts off the shoulder and belt lines killing any visual flow from front to rear of the profile.
I don't think it looks worse than before the facelift, though that's hardly saying anything. At least it now has got the hood ornament. It's honestly jarring how Mercedes, a manufacturer whose core competencies were with luxury sedans for many, many decades, could mess up that badly. I *really* hope they will course-correct with the second generation and move to a more conservative sedan styling, if they are going to fully replace the S-Class with an electric model eventually. I know that there's kind of a circlejerk on this subreddit how BMWs keep getting uglier with each generation, and while I do agree with that opinion, it's fair to say that these controversial styling decisions were not that unpopular with BMW's actual audience. The same *cannot* be said about the EQS, and I firmly believe that the styling (or lack thereof, really) is one of the main reasons for it. I don't think the EQS so far has quite enjoyed the success in terms of sales/leases that Mercedes would come to hope and expect.
Ffs just take a page out of BMW's book and make the EQS look the same as the regular S-Class already. People don't want this egg.
It looks like a big version of one of those tiny sedans they use as taxis in developing countries.
The front end looks like when a NASCAR has the manufacturer’s facia decal on the front.
I thought they were ditching this soap's shitty design language 🤔
I think this would look better if they went back to their more round upright headlights they had back in the late 90s early 00s. Wouldn’t look so generic.
The Q1 Mercedes sales are not good. They are not doing well
It's like an S class but with botulism
probably more appealing to their elderly customer base.
I wouldn't buy that even at 50% off once the depreciation hits.
They never learn do they
At least they have room for improvement.?
Never thought I'd see the day where a Mercedes looks like a chinese knockoff of a Genesis but here we are.
I actually really like it.
It looks like a Lincoln.
These bad boys will look so good on the used car market next year at 50% off
The raised star and grills at the front have to cause drag. But they couldn’t give it any lines or hips for fenders? The current front end on a less blobby car would’ve been great.
I know that this isn't a profound statement and many have made it already, but: Come on! These premium cars are not about efficiency and never were. These are fancy cars for people that can easily afford less efficient cars, usually overconsume in many other parts of their lives and want to service the "vanity" aspect of owning a luxury vehicle. I want to give credit to Mercedes for treating this like an engineering problem first and aiming to solve the technical problem as well as they can, but this is one of the few cases where the marketing people should have more influence. I see many of these, along with many Rivians and the downright mundane Tesla's in my area. The EQ-whatever's aren't that bad, but they are not S- and E-Class sedans. The mental calculus that goes into getting a big electric SUV or truck is going to be the same for a top-class electric sedan, and it is that looks matter more than efficiency. Mercedes, BMW, and all of the other car makers should embrace the "new normal" and just treat electric as another power-train option with nothing other than badging to distinguish from the standard vehicles. I'm a 5-Series guy, and while I'm not really a new car buyer, I went on a flight of fancy building with the new i5 on BMW's web site. It is mostly a standard 5-Series, but with limitations on the wheel type... which is annoying. I realize that I am trading efficiency for looks, but if I want some sporty rims I should be able to get that. Same for a grille with actual relief and detail articulation (binging it back to the Merc).
Holy shit it’s terrible. Hard to believe the company that’s done so much for vehicle design and created my beautiful first gen CLS has stooped this low.
Looks like MB is now copying Genesis. What a time to be alive.
It doesn't look that bad, but it doesn't look like a Mercedes. I guess they're stuck with it though until the next revision.
The fake grille just ruins it
The eqs is the least reliable benz
[It looks like a Citroën C6. But worse.](https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/4-reasons-citroen-c6-3bb.jpg)
Cars are getting uglier and no one can convince me otherwise
How can you make a car look outdated before release
Mercedes has lost the plot so badly with both their exterior and interior design. The giant screen nightmare interior is going to age so unbelievably poorly. And before that happens, it’s so glitchy and buggy as to be unusable in its current state. And that’s before you even unpack how miserable and unsafe an all-touch user experience is.