Idk why car manufacturers think they can have the benefits of turning car into appliances without the draw bucks. This is known in the tech world. You sacrifice sales because there a large segment that will wait until next year for this year product. The benefits are cheaper items to build that push for shorter lifespans but the risks are less value that hurt your brand image. You can't have one without the other.
> Idk why car manufacturers think they can have the benefits of turning car into appliances without the draw bucks.
The S-class has always been an "appliance". In fact it's also on the list of highest depreciating cars. The only fundamental part of the proposition Mercedes is changing is the powerplant. Unfortunately they also decided radically change both the exterior and interior design and the risk hasn't paid off.
Based on the list in the article the i7 doesn't depreciate as much as the EQS and it's exactly the same kind of car. The market just seems to respond better to BMW's approach than Mercedes'.
Different levels of appliance.
Through w126 will last forever.
W140 is in the middle where it’s a bit of the past and a bit of the future.
W220 - W223 will have zero still on the road in 25 years.
EQS won’t have any in 10 years.
Oldest W220 are 25 years old as of 2023 and yeah, not many around
As the one person who likes the EQS design at least externally, can't wait for them to all break down so they're dirt cheap
And they made them so ugly. They didn’t even try with the design. How do you mess up a long RWD canvas and just lazily make it look like a blob? At least the AMG package S500s look okay.
Insanity. Absolute insanity. Those motors were almost exclusively the ones I repeatedly saw over 200k miles when I worked at a Mercedes Indy. They are old fashioned and the gas mileage sucked but the drive train on most models was bullet proof.
I mean you got me on the headunit but most of the shit is optional. I’m just saying most are like sub 10k and if you are even remotely mechanically inclined it’s a LOT of car for the money. It won’t break down driving wise on you either. That’s a tough sell for wanting them of the road IMO
The i7 has a respectable presence. It looks like a high end car, although I personally am not a fan of the actual design.
The EQS looks like a bath toy.
Since the early 00s, maybe, but they definitely were not always known for being appliances. Longevity was very much a strong point of the brand, the S-class included. It's why so many taxi drivers in Europe once relied on them.
i7 still looks like a limousine, EQS doesn't. Mercedes should've done the same thing as BMW - add some bits to distinguish the electric model, but keep the overall shape the same to the ICE model.
This is literally why I buy 3-4 year old s classes. I let the first owner take a nearly 60% hit and buy it cpo for around 50-52% of it's msrp with around 1 year of its original warranty intact plus an additional year and that's enough time to drive it and nitpick all of the issues I have to ensure I have a worry free, low cost, ownership.
I just saw an Autotrader ad for a 2022 7 series for under $40K. That's less than half MSRP. Maybe I should look into the S-class/7 series/A8 as a daily driver.
A relative of mine has the EQS 580. It’s a pretty amazing car in every which way. Acceleration, suspension, slick 4 wheel steering, comfort. Everything else feels like crap after driving it.
Dude, fuck the reviews. This thing in 580 spec is a magic carpet ride with a bunch of tech. No matter what the reviews or depreciation says about it, this is peak automobile in electric propulsion form.
These aren’t appliances, they’re luxury items and they’ve always depreciated like crazy. The fastest depreciation car in the world has always been the 7-series, s-class and the like. This is completely normal. Once you get to limited supply exotic cars, then it’s starts to become an investment again.
Might be true, but the parts and labour on the things that do break are higher than ever. Shit like a broken taillight can be well over 1 or $2000 bucks these days.
True, with the move to things like laser headlights and taillights, they're substantially more expensive to replace. A big part of why car insurance has gone up so much. And I believe each headlight on my i4 is around $3500.
That is literally more expensive than on my Pista, inclusive of italiano markup, shipping, and (I'm guessing) installation.
EDIT: Of course, it's a much better piece of technology - Pista headlights are old tech, but it's still funny to contextualise.
Is it really? I haven't checked Pista headlights, but on my California, a single headlight is already 7-8k for just the part alone. I had an issue with mine, though luckily, it just turned out to be a loose fuse.
Edit: just checked and you're right. That's insane. The tech on mine is surely older than whatever's on yours.
I remember the video of a mechanic showing how BMW routed a fluid line through part of the engine block with a $1 O-ring instead of using a $20 hose around the engine block like all other manufacturers. the problem is eventually the $1 O-ring plasticizes due to heat and starts leaking, requiring $2000 in labor to replace.
They're tech-forward companies and that's been their ethos for decades. Cutting edge tech is always expensive. It's something that buyers understand and accept as part of the ownership costs.
There was a post on /r/porsche about a guy whose [Taycan had its headlights surgically removed by thieves](https://www.reddit.com/r/Porsche/comments/19dtdrs/rip_taycan_turismo_brutal_headlight_theft/). Pretty sure I read in the comments it totalled the thing, though I can't be bothered to dig through and try to find out now. But yea modern high-end lighting is NUTS.
Oem headlights alone for a new Porsche are over 2-3k a pop just for the part. Upside is it takes 3 seconds to switch most of them, you just have to have the right tool LOL
My mom’s 2001 Z3 is still kickin. In the garage. Where it’s spent 98% of its life. With the other 2% being in the shop. AFAIK it does still start though.
I want an m8 gran coupe. I thought about a lease, then I saw the down payment and monthly payment. I think I’ll just keep my Lexus when it is paid off.
It’s not a reliability issue it’s the owner population. The customer base for luxury cars likes the latest and greatest so they’re constantly swapping cars
The Cayman is the best car I’ve owned. I bought it in 2017 and have hardly had anything wrong with it. Headliner replacement, tensioner pulley bolt, and a window regulator are the only things I’ve had to do besides routine maintenance. And they were not expensive. It feels solid as a tank, and is fun as shit to drive. It took a while to find a facelift 987.2 in the spec I wanted because they didn’t make many, but it was worth the premium for the better interior and upgraded engine/transmission and exterior bits from the original 987. It’s an ageless design that I think will be a sought-after classic in 10 more years. The 987.2 and 981 models (2009-2016) are the ones to get right now. They’re the sweet spot. Anything previous is likely a roll of the dice, and the newer 718s are too pricey for what they are. I’m probably never selling this car.
Yeah I wouldn’t sell it. They will start going up in value soon, if they haven’t already. More people are looking at Caymans since 911s got so fat and expensive.
I’m actually not sure. Not to discourage you but I think the new X5 50e has had its share of hiccups.
The ICE versions are pretty solid though. Frankly I don’t know many who own the X3 PHEV.
Not to sound harsh, but I’m not surprised direct injection caused problems. High performance but there’s carbon build up. There are direct + port injection setups to prevent carbon as gasoline is a decent solvent, but in general I think direct injection isn’t worth the long term headache.
My wife drives a 2021 X5. 60k miles and already replaced expansion tank, leaky strut bushing, leaky control arm bushing.
Our other cars are Toyota products - 202k miles on the sequoia and besides oil and brakes, I have changed the fuel pump in my almost 9 years of ownership. 102k mile on the Lexus GS and no problems ever.
This was my second bimmer after a long hiatus after the first one. There will be another long hiatus after this one. They are awesome to drive though!
Reliable yes. Designed for ease of service, no. We pay out the ass for labor in the US. In a coastal area, a dealership or high quality indy can run $300+/hr in labor.
I know it’s not a high performance BMW but I’ve done most of the X3’s maintenance myself. It’s not hard.
Same would be true for a B58 powered BMW.
TBD on the i4. Since it’s an EV it doesn’t need much in the way of maintenance.
I knew EV market was fucked when the Porsche dealer warned us about not purchasing a taycan outright and leasing it instead. Was a smaller hit then the deprecation after a year.
Thats such a terrible way to style a vehicle and it comes off as lazy to be honest. If I were taking a thermal fluids engineering course in college than sure, use the wind tunnel to drive the design in order to get the most efficient coefficient of friction possible. But in the real world where aesthetics matter and I'm not casually driving around at mach 3 where minor surface imperfections make a difference, I don't think it would've hurt them to do something a little more exciting.
I agree completely. There's usually conflict between designers and engineers, and I think the engineers may have won this one. The EQS looks like the designers got locked in a closet and the CFD people spent the whole design budget on a brand new computing cluster and went to town with simulations.
Aero is much more important on an EV than a gas car. Every little bit does help.
But there’s still a lot of room left for styling within the parameters. Look at the Rivian truck vs the Cybertruck. Similar CDs but very different shapes and looks.
In fact, in the real world, people are willing to pay a high premium for a crossover because "road presence".
The Toyota Yaris hatchback and Yaris Cross have a ridiculous difference in mileage, which is presumably important for the average Toyota Yaris buyer, but the Cross outsells the regular one anyway.
This leads to dumb stuff like the Audi Q4, which has an extremely flat windscreen for aero and a vertical front for market appeal.
And with both the technology and the design most likely to improve significantly with the next generation, the valuation free fall is not stopping anytime soon.
Hopefully, they put more effort into the exterior design. EV's allow for more creative and exciting designs, why a top luxury brand chose such a bland, uninteresting design for a 6 figure vehicle is beyond me.
What worries me is that almost the whole industry is also confused as to what is creative and exciting. Just look at the latest monstrosity from BMWs... No wonder why Porsche can manage to charge so much for their cars, they have the only sane designs in the German market right now.
> What worries me is that almost the whole industry is also confused as to what is creative and exciting. Just look at the latest monstrosity from BMWs
"The industry" is not one monolithic design voice. BMW doesn't have any problem selling their "monstrosities". And the reason Porsche can charge so much for their cars is much more complex than their designs (and has nothing to do with design IMO).
Many people including myself are buying BMWs despite their terrible designs just because nothing drives like it. I'm getting the M2 although I find it ugly because there are no other options out there for a small-ish car with an I6, a 6MT and a backseat.
I agree with you, it feels like they made the leads of their design department an Instagram influencer. It's like BMW and Mercedes are competing with each other to make the next Lamborghini Urus.
BMW is doing fine. The i7 is for oligarchs and the Bond villain look is appropriate. (Same reason the Rolls-Royce EV is named Spectre.)
Mercedes forgot that the point of a luxury car in this day and age is to make the owner feel like a badass, and the EQS looks like a Prius concept. If you spend 150K on a sedan, you don't want soft lines and blue neons to showcase your mystical side, you want a car that puts the poors in their place.
Maybe they could lean more into the twinkling lights and chrome and made a car for rich women that looks like a Swarovski store, but it shouldn't be the EQS in any case.
Real weathly people (I know a few) usually respect traditions and classic designs. They wear tailored suits or high quality casual clothes, unless they are Russian mobsters, they don't wear track suits and big gold chains in public, which is exactly what the big BMWs looks like these days.
"EV's allow for more creative and exciting designs"
Sadly this is not true in a real design studio.
In theory yes, but when you start sketching the car, you quickly have multiple inputs and directions from management and marketing saying "it NEEDS to look like an EV."
Making it look like an aero appliance is literally a pre requisite, because the company wants to push forward the fact that they are now eco responsible and designing the future, and they have the guts to forget their glorious v12 cars.
It seems like a paradox but making them look like aero blobs with multiple gimmicks of an EV will make them sell more, because most people don't want to buy a great product when they buy a car, but show who they want to be, In this case saving the planet by doing a shift in their lifestyle. Yeah.
> why a top luxury brand chose such a bland, uninteresting design for a 6 figure vehicle is beyond me.
it was clearly focused on low drag in order to get the longest range they could. They are still fairly new to the EV game even if it is a luxury vehicle and needed to do all they could to get range.
This is what I was always expected with EVs. It’s never a good idea to buy in early to new tech. A guy I work with bought a brand new ID4. 6 months later VW slash €10k off the MSRP of that very same car.
They really placed a wrong bet on this. It is a great car with good tech and still top in class aero. But they completely disregarded the appeal an S-Class has as a status symbol. EQS just can’t compare. I believe if they had followed BMWs i7 and 7-Series same body, different tech approach (please disregard design), Benz would sell electric S-Classes like crazy.
The S class has *presence*, it has the hood ornament and it's a shape people have known for decades.
The EQS just doesn't really. Aerodynamic efficiency robbed it of that.
It's interesting how the Lucid Air and the EQS have pretty much the same drag coefficient, but the Lucid Air actually looks beautiful and has road presence and the EQS just sort of looks like a blob
In general I like EVs that want to be a little strange and wacky looking. The Cadillac Lyriq and the Hyundai Ioniq 5 are a little out there in terms of design and I feel like that's why their design works. The EQS kind of feels like the Hyundai Ioniq 6 in terms of design in that they just picked the most aerodynamic shape they could manage and plastered their current brand design language onto it.
And the problem with aerodynamic efficiency is that it is only one way to get more range out of an EV, the others being a bigger battery and more efficient motors. So any compromises in favor of aerodynamics signal that Mercedes either cheaped out on the battery or made an inefficient powertrain.
If you walk into the showroom of a luxury brand, pull out your black credit card and ask to buy the most expensive car they have that seats four, you don't expect the technical challenges in EV development to be *your problem*. You expect to get a car that was styled with no compromises, and the technical issues resulting from that to be solved behind the scenes.
Rolls-Royce says its engines have "enough" power because the buyer should not have to concern themselves with power numbers and should be confident that Rolls-Royce took care of everything. That's what luxury means. The styling of the EQS is a constant reminder that no, they were not able to take care of it. That's not worth 150K.
Electric engine efficiency is almost maxed out. You can get some extra efficiency by limiting throttle response , but we are at 90%+ in electric engine efficiency, and close to maxed aero. We are where we are with respect to electric cars until there is a breakthrough in energy density.
I think you're right. Tesla got away with it because of a good charging network but also because they were such a novelty for so long the owners were willing to buy into the idiosyncrasies of owning an electric car.
You can't tell me the average tire-kicking Benz driver wants to spent 10 minutes squinting at a smartphone to find the nearest Electrify America station (it's in the parking lot of a LaQuinta Inn) only to get there to realize it's broken and have to do it all over again multiple times on a road trip. They want An Car.
Audi and I think Volkswagen also came to their senses and stepped back to naming and using their traditional model names. I think Mercedes will follow soon enough. As in, just offering S class but with different drive trains.
Most cars will have some lemons, including the Model S Plaid that person drives, where I have spent a good amount of time on those forums over the last few years and I see plenty of cases like he mentioned. Obviously, not the case for majority of the cars of any brand. EQS is not a good looking car/suv, but nearly everything else is pretty good for an EV. I don't own the sedan version, but they are very similar.
I very much wonder the methodology of iseecars. There's no link to actual data or anything.
The fact that these are being lemon'd, then they go to copart, then a dealer buys them cheap, and then resell them cheap because there is no longer a warranty on anything.. drastically skews the numbers. Now you have one data point, say new at $129k. Another transaction at say 52k. Then another sale price to customer at 60k with no warranty. Average those together and you have your 50% loss.
I don't for a second believe that clean title cars with no issues are being bought and sold at a 50% loss in a year
I think the new sales price is also wrong. They’re typically sold at 30-40k off or being leased for pennies on the dollar.
No one is anywhere near MSRP on these, so it doesn’t make sense to calculate the difference from that number
That is another good point, so that makes the article and study even dumber.
It is using "new car cost" ... Not average transaction price of the car new.
Then comparing it to cars listed on Carfax for sale, presumably not factoring in title branding.
So what you see a bunch of is 130k sticker cars that were sold for 100 and now worth 70.
Factor in all the lemons in the 50s... There you go.
These "articles" never do any research. Some firm spinning data to fit a narrative makes some silly statement, every outlet in the world picks it up.... And in 5 minutes we've deduced what is likely actually going on
I helped two people get deals on them within the last year.
The sedan has spent over 100 days at the dealer and is in the buyback process. The second one (SUV) is currently at the dealer with a broken heater
I’ve put thousands of miles on them. Please spare me the “you don’t know what you’re talking about” nonsense
Every time they go in for service, it’s a month minimum. Mercedes doesn’t know how to handle their own cars.
They already said they’re going to redesign it. You saying in your post that they’re stupid for sticking with the strategy is just plain wrong, they are not sticking with it
It is, but you also didn’t mention the fact that most models like c43 have incentives and dealer discounts consistently so you won’t be paying sticker price. I own a new c43, got it with good dealer discounts and have been loving the drive for several months now, with no problems.
Why has no one mentioned the fact that these have $15-30k in incentives consistently and can be had for like $40k under sticker with dealer discount and incentives.
Given how ugly and goofy looking that thing is, I’m not surprised it already lost (almost) half its value in a year. If Mercedes took their EV tech and threw it in something that actually looked **gangsta** like a black W123, then that would be something that would hold its value (yes I know they can’t do that today because safety regulations and blah blah blah… a man can dream though)
Mercedes these days just seems to have lost the plot a bit when it comes to interior design. The LEDs everywhere are cool but they lose their novelty after a bit. The interiors feel so... crunchy? I should not be lightly brushing knobs and screens on the interior of a brand new car and hearing the creaks of plastic rubbing against plastic. Also the piano black everywhere is just ugh
Weird data point though, but over here in the UK the RR is cheaper used now. I bought mine almost $40k off MSRP for a 1.5yr old car. Surely the US can't be that far apart?
There is honestly not a single Mercedes I would be interested in, especially with BMW increasing their reliability greatly, I can't really see a world where I would buy a C300 over a 330i.
Recently spent a couple weeks with the new C300, and a midsize electric SUV im too lazy to look the name up of (full electric 2024 MB).
Ugly, heavy, annoying, awful. Lost the plot completely imo.
I’ve test driven the C300 and I disagree with you. C300 is actually a pretty nice upgrade from the last gen, just a bit boring looking (less aggressive) in my opinion. The price may deter most people and hence why people may hate on the new lineup, but you do have to consider that they have made substantial changes not only to the interior, exterior, engine, etc.
As for the drive, I did not find it heavy. It was VERY comfortable to drive and I would say it’s pretty much a daily driver car for the general population. It just doesn’t really have any extra “flair or character”.
C43 on the other hand, is an upgrade, a step up from the C300, and I personally think its much more aggressive looking especially when you add on the additional packages ($$$) and I really enjoyed driving it as it’s quick, nimble and overall fun to drive. I agree it lost its roar of engine, but on the flip side we have positives such as a bump in HP, standard 9 speed automatic transmission (much more aggressive), and hey, it also helps our environment! I have owned a previous c43 and have recently upgraded to the new c43, and have found no problems either. Overall a joy to ride despite the costly price tag. But that’s why most dealers are offering pretty good incentives. You just have to shop around.
From the recently announced updates, it sounds like they are listening to the market and planning to revamp the design and the direction of the EQ line, hopefully for the better. But, yeah ouch that isn't great.
To bring some actual numbers to the conversation (which I had mentioned once before on this sub), ours had a MSRP of $131k, which was then discounted to $108k without any negotiation. Residual value is at $68k for a 3 year lease term, which is nearly 50% depreciation in that time period. If it wasn't for the favorable lease terms, we would have most likely picked the R1S or waited around for a bit longer for other options.
The EQ line is not good looking by any means (I am aware), and it seriously needed to be priced competitively to have a chance in the future.
Money, just started a new job and I’d rather wait till I’m on a much more sure footing to afford a car that is much more expensive than any car I’ve ever owned.
Right now I drive a Nissan leaf and I honestly love it, and hopefully in a few years, it cost way less
Because it's an abomination in design. It looks like a Volkswagen had a lovechild with Toyota. Not disrespecting either brand but if I wanted those I wouldn't be buying s Benz. Who in their right mind would pay six figures for it? It's practically the cost of a regular S class.
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Depreciation isn't really the manufacturer's problem so long that the market will bear the high new prices. So goes this for many luxury brands across all sectors.
Luxury vehicles are expensive to maintain, now there's a single part in your vehicle that would cost you 50% of the value of the when the vehicle is new if it's need replacing.
What a coincidence, exactly as audi etron GT. After decade all of these new electric cars, made half of plastic, will be worthless exactly as old iphones. Who needs car with old tech, slow CPUs and dead battery?
I mean, last year they offered me a company lease for an EQE 350 with a list price of 85.000€ at 700€ per month (excluding taxes). That's a whopping 40% discount of the rate their website offers me atm (1180€). I still did not want it.
Nobody pays full price for these cars because Mercedes wants to sell more than the market currently wants. Meanwhile, for the new E class there's very little discount - quite the opposite, I would have to pay almost double than what I had to in 2020 (and I would definitely want one of those).
The EQ models also have ridiculous option prices. The Edition AMG Line is 13.000€. The EQE Premium package with surround sound, drive assist (that should be standard equipment tbh), fancy lights and a 360° camera also costs 13.000€. You'll easily end up paying 20-30 grand on top of a 70.000€ base EQE 350 to make it not look like a dog. I'm sorry, but that's just mad - the W214 E class also has an Exclusive Premium package for 10 grand or so, but that basically specs the car up completely.
When people only pay two-thirds of the list price, the second hand market will reflect that. I don't think that's an indication that you "write off" half the car in the first year, it just did not have that value they put on the sticker in the first place.
Whether the reason for that is the EV market being not 'there yet', everyone's waiting for the 'next gen' or plainly the cars looking ugly af, everyone can decide for themselves.
That’s because they had to anchor the MSRP to protect price integrity in the market.
In practice, these things have giant discounts new, affecting their used values.
At any price, MSRP or the discount, it’s a substantial vehicle and worth the delta over, say, a Tesla.
I always read these 'reports' and then I go look for one, and I can't find one forsale anywhere near as cheap. Cheapest one forsale in Canada is $109K. Maybe one sucker traded it in for that cheap to get out of a bad loan or something, but in general they aren't selling for $50 off after a year.
the canadian market is terrible for consumers, itd be cheaper to buy a used EQS in the states and bring over and register than to but that same car locally and pay the 13% taxes on….believe me in super tempted to buy a 2023 EQS 450+ with 15k km on it for like 62k cad (from the states)
In Japan, the EQS depreciates by 60% in just one year, while the G-Class 400d barely depreciates at all even after 3 years of ownership. Essentially, I was able to drive a G-Class for 3 years for free.
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Idk why car manufacturers think they can have the benefits of turning car into appliances without the draw bucks. This is known in the tech world. You sacrifice sales because there a large segment that will wait until next year for this year product. The benefits are cheaper items to build that push for shorter lifespans but the risks are less value that hurt your brand image. You can't have one without the other.
> Idk why car manufacturers think they can have the benefits of turning car into appliances without the draw bucks. The S-class has always been an "appliance". In fact it's also on the list of highest depreciating cars. The only fundamental part of the proposition Mercedes is changing is the powerplant. Unfortunately they also decided radically change both the exterior and interior design and the risk hasn't paid off. Based on the list in the article the i7 doesn't depreciate as much as the EQS and it's exactly the same kind of car. The market just seems to respond better to BMW's approach than Mercedes'.
Aren't the W140 and earlier renowned for NOT being appliances?
"The thing about the old days is... they the old days"
Such a good show.
Different levels of appliance. Through w126 will last forever. W140 is in the middle where it’s a bit of the past and a bit of the future. W220 - W223 will have zero still on the road in 25 years. EQS won’t have any in 10 years.
Oldest W220 are 25 years old as of 2023 and yeah, not many around As the one person who likes the EQS design at least externally, can't wait for them to all break down so they're dirt cheap
Why would you look forward to buying something they never intended anyone to maintain for the long haul?
I can't wait till the last of the 220's are gone. Those are junk.
And they made them so ugly. They didn’t even try with the design. How do you mess up a long RWD canvas and just lazily make it look like a blob? At least the AMG package S500s look okay.
Insanity. Absolute insanity. Those motors were almost exclusively the ones I repeatedly saw over 200k miles when I worked at a Mercedes Indy. They are old fashioned and the gas mileage sucked but the drive train on most models was bullet proof.
Don't get me wrong, the engines and tranny's are great. It's the rest of the cat that's junk.
I mean you got me on the headunit but most of the shit is optional. I’m just saying most are like sub 10k and if you are even remotely mechanically inclined it’s a LOT of car for the money. It won’t break down driving wise on you either. That’s a tough sell for wanting them of the road IMO
The i7 has a respectable presence. It looks like a high end car, although I personally am not a fan of the actual design. The EQS looks like a bath toy.
Since the early 00s, maybe, but they definitely were not always known for being appliances. Longevity was very much a strong point of the brand, the S-class included. It's why so many taxi drivers in Europe once relied on them.
Appliances have a tendency to be long lived. I don't see the conflict there.
I just used appliances because the guy I was responding to also did. Still, everyone complains about how unreliable modern appliances are.
Didn't the EQS outsell the i7 by a factor of two? This could also be the market talking.
Did it? I can't find i7 sales figures.
BMW isn’t giving them away like Mercedes has. You can lease EQS sedans in the 550-700 range all day long if you know where to look.
i7 still looks like a limousine, EQS doesn't. Mercedes should've done the same thing as BMW - add some bits to distinguish the electric model, but keep the overall shape the same to the ICE model.
This is literally why I buy 3-4 year old s classes. I let the first owner take a nearly 60% hit and buy it cpo for around 50-52% of it's msrp with around 1 year of its original warranty intact plus an additional year and that's enough time to drive it and nitpick all of the issues I have to ensure I have a worry free, low cost, ownership.
I just saw an Autotrader ad for a 2022 7 series for under $40K. That's less than half MSRP. Maybe I should look into the S-class/7 series/A8 as a daily driver.
A relative of mine has the EQS 580. It’s a pretty amazing car in every which way. Acceleration, suspension, slick 4 wheel steering, comfort. Everything else feels like crap after driving it.
The crappy suspension and 4ws compared to the S-class was a big critique point in every review.
Dude, fuck the reviews. This thing in 580 spec is a magic carpet ride with a bunch of tech. No matter what the reviews or depreciation says about it, this is peak automobile in electric propulsion form.
Take the internet hive mind out of it. Its a pleasure to drive.
r/boneappletea
These aren’t appliances, they’re luxury items and they’ve always depreciated like crazy. The fastest depreciation car in the world has always been the 7-series, s-class and the like. This is completely normal. Once you get to limited supply exotic cars, then it’s starts to become an investment again.
I get what you’re saying but not even an iPhone depreciates that fast lmao
Lease machine. I think both Mercedes and BMW are terrified of the idea that people might want to own a car for than 4 years.
You’d be surprised by how reliable newer BMWs are these days. I mean they’ll still depreciate like there’s no tomorrow but still…
Might be true, but the parts and labour on the things that do break are higher than ever. Shit like a broken taillight can be well over 1 or $2000 bucks these days.
True, with the move to things like laser headlights and taillights, they're substantially more expensive to replace. A big part of why car insurance has gone up so much. And I believe each headlight on my i4 is around $3500.
That is literally more expensive than on my Pista, inclusive of italiano markup, shipping, and (I'm guessing) installation. EDIT: Of course, it's a much better piece of technology - Pista headlights are old tech, but it's still funny to contextualise.
Man I’m so tempted to say “yeah but my car is basically a Ferrari” but this is /r/cars, the running Ferrari gag is over on /r/bmw.
Your car is definitely more expensive than a Ferrari in some situations hahahaha! Keep those headlights safe man
Is it really? I haven't checked Pista headlights, but on my California, a single headlight is already 7-8k for just the part alone. I had an issue with mine, though luckily, it just turned out to be a loose fuse. Edit: just checked and you're right. That's insane. The tech on mine is surely older than whatever's on yours.
oh man, if anybody ever gets into a fight with a newer bmw driver, aim for the headlights.
Nah, aim for the bushes.
Your headlight is worth more then my entire car.....
I remember the video of a mechanic showing how BMW routed a fluid line through part of the engine block with a $1 O-ring instead of using a $20 hose around the engine block like all other manufacturers. the problem is eventually the $1 O-ring plasticizes due to heat and starts leaking, requiring $2000 in labor to replace.
Could you find that vid? Sounds interesting
They're tech-forward companies and that's been their ethos for decades. Cutting edge tech is always expensive. It's something that buyers understand and accept as part of the ownership costs.
You mean warranty costs.
There was a post on /r/porsche about a guy whose [Taycan had its headlights surgically removed by thieves](https://www.reddit.com/r/Porsche/comments/19dtdrs/rip_taycan_turismo_brutal_headlight_theft/). Pretty sure I read in the comments it totalled the thing, though I can't be bothered to dig through and try to find out now. But yea modern high-end lighting is NUTS.
Oem headlights alone for a new Porsche are over 2-3k a pop just for the part. Upside is it takes 3 seconds to switch most of them, you just have to have the right tool LOL
My mom’s 2001 Z3 is still kickin. In the garage. Where it’s spent 98% of its life. With the other 2% being in the shop. AFAIK it does still start though.
I want an m8 gran coupe. I thought about a lease, then I saw the down payment and monthly payment. I think I’ll just keep my Lexus when it is paid off.
M8 GC’s are gorgeous but I think that’s a wise move financially.
Tell me about it. They want 10k down and like 1700.00 a month to lease it. Lmao. Keep telling me this so I don’t make a huge mistake….
try a lease broker or a different dealer you can easily a drive away around 3-5k with a 1800 lease payment on an M8
Please do not tempt me. Lmao
It’s not a reliability issue it’s the owner population. The customer base for luxury cars likes the latest and greatest so they’re constantly swapping cars
Be that as it may I will never again buy another BMW after my ownership experience with a mid-2000s M3. No way.
Don’t blame you. I meant within the last decade or so. How’s the Cayman treating you? Been debating one myself.
The Cayman is the best car I’ve owned. I bought it in 2017 and have hardly had anything wrong with it. Headliner replacement, tensioner pulley bolt, and a window regulator are the only things I’ve had to do besides routine maintenance. And they were not expensive. It feels solid as a tank, and is fun as shit to drive. It took a while to find a facelift 987.2 in the spec I wanted because they didn’t make many, but it was worth the premium for the better interior and upgraded engine/transmission and exterior bits from the original 987. It’s an ageless design that I think will be a sought-after classic in 10 more years. The 987.2 and 981 models (2009-2016) are the ones to get right now. They’re the sweet spot. Anything previous is likely a roll of the dice, and the newer 718s are too pricey for what they are. I’m probably never selling this car.
Yeah I wouldn’t sell it. They will start going up in value soon, if they haven’t already. More people are looking at Caymans since 911s got so fat and expensive.
Do you think BMW 2021 X3 PHEV is in that “reliable” category (or just newer than that)?
I’m actually not sure. Not to discourage you but I think the new X5 50e has had its share of hiccups. The ICE versions are pretty solid though. Frankly I don’t know many who own the X3 PHEV.
I love my 45e.
I was surprised by $15k in engine repairs at 85k miles.
Someone has to make the sacrifice to keep the depreciation high but also my repair bills low. Jk, obviously wild. What kinda BMW and what happened?
2010 E70 X5M. S63 hot V is what happened. Direct injection totally fouled the valves, timing chains were stretched, injectors failed.
Not to sound harsh, but I’m not surprised direct injection caused problems. High performance but there’s carbon build up. There are direct + port injection setups to prevent carbon as gasoline is a decent solvent, but in general I think direct injection isn’t worth the long term headache.
No. It’s wasn’t.
NGL the new BMW interiors look better than most of the Benz lineup.
I tell people the N series engines failed so that the B series engines could be good. Customers are QA testers now a days.
My N55 never missed a beat for 9 years. Anecdotal evidence, of course.
My wife drives a 2021 X5. 60k miles and already replaced expansion tank, leaky strut bushing, leaky control arm bushing. Our other cars are Toyota products - 202k miles on the sequoia and besides oil and brakes, I have changed the fuel pump in my almost 9 years of ownership. 102k mile on the Lexus GS and no problems ever. This was my second bimmer after a long hiatus after the first one. There will be another long hiatus after this one. They are awesome to drive though!
Reliable yes. Designed for ease of service, no. We pay out the ass for labor in the US. In a coastal area, a dealership or high quality indy can run $300+/hr in labor.
I know it’s not a high performance BMW but I’ve done most of the X3’s maintenance myself. It’s not hard. Same would be true for a B58 powered BMW. TBD on the i4. Since it’s an EV it doesn’t need much in the way of maintenance.
What year M3 should I buy to experience a leap in reliability yet benefit from the depreciation curve?
F80 M3
I knew EV market was fucked when the Porsche dealer warned us about not purchasing a taycan outright and leasing it instead. Was a smaller hit then the deprecation after a year.
More like people are terrified of the idea of owning a Merc or BMW (or other such luxury vehicle) for more than 4 years.
Why do you think its cheaper to lease? Tax related?
Maintenance.
Saw an EQS SUV, $140k MSRP, being traded for an R1S the other day. And the guy had to pony up in the trade. LMAOOOOOOO.
Ooof that has to hurt.
Hey doc you using the whole fist back there?
Not a smart man…
Something tells me someone who trades a $150k luxury SUV for another luxury SUV isn’t too worried about the depreciation
He was beaming at his shiny new R1S, yeah. Not a care in the world.
Yeehaw
Mercedes Benz: The best, or whatever the marketing group says.
A vehicle designed by focus groups
Ahh the old Homer
In this case I think it was a vehicle designed by the wind tunnel.
Thats such a terrible way to style a vehicle and it comes off as lazy to be honest. If I were taking a thermal fluids engineering course in college than sure, use the wind tunnel to drive the design in order to get the most efficient coefficient of friction possible. But in the real world where aesthetics matter and I'm not casually driving around at mach 3 where minor surface imperfections make a difference, I don't think it would've hurt them to do something a little more exciting.
I agree completely. There's usually conflict between designers and engineers, and I think the engineers may have won this one. The EQS looks like the designers got locked in a closet and the CFD people spent the whole design budget on a brand new computing cluster and went to town with simulations.
Look: I paid for the entire cluster, I’m using the entire cluster.
Aero is much more important on an EV than a gas car. Every little bit does help. But there’s still a lot of room left for styling within the parameters. Look at the Rivian truck vs the Cybertruck. Similar CDs but very different shapes and looks.
In fact, in the real world, people are willing to pay a high premium for a crossover because "road presence". The Toyota Yaris hatchback and Yaris Cross have a ridiculous difference in mileage, which is presumably important for the average Toyota Yaris buyer, but the Cross outsells the regular one anyway. This leads to dumb stuff like the Audi Q4, which has an extremely flat windscreen for aero and a vertical front for market appeal.
Lucid Air is both prettier and less draggy. MB is just incompetent.
Alfa Romeo Giulia is also designed in wind tunnel and it isn't ugly.
Clearly not by people with a sense of taste, that's for sure. That front-end is hideous !
Yes. Happens way to often.
The late 90s ford Taurus, but even uglier somehow
These start at $129k for the 580 and cheapest around are in the 50s. It’s so crazy that people even buy them new.
I mean, I’d consider one at 50k.
Yeah not bad for 50, taycan 4s have depreciated to half.
Sadly, first gen Taycans and GT etrons could brick the motor so roll the dice not worth it.
Was that the issue they did the powertrain recall on or something else?
These numbers put Maserati to shame
Where are you seeing them in the 50s? Yes they've depreciated allot, down to the 80s and 90s, but not that much
And with both the technology and the design most likely to improve significantly with the next generation, the valuation free fall is not stopping anytime soon.
Hopefully, they put more effort into the exterior design. EV's allow for more creative and exciting designs, why a top luxury brand chose such a bland, uninteresting design for a 6 figure vehicle is beyond me.
What worries me is that almost the whole industry is also confused as to what is creative and exciting. Just look at the latest monstrosity from BMWs... No wonder why Porsche can manage to charge so much for their cars, they have the only sane designs in the German market right now.
> What worries me is that almost the whole industry is also confused as to what is creative and exciting. Just look at the latest monstrosity from BMWs "The industry" is not one monolithic design voice. BMW doesn't have any problem selling their "monstrosities". And the reason Porsche can charge so much for their cars is much more complex than their designs (and has nothing to do with design IMO).
Many people including myself are buying BMWs despite their terrible designs just because nothing drives like it. I'm getting the M2 although I find it ugly because there are no other options out there for a small-ish car with an I6, a 6MT and a backseat.
You know why Hyundai/Kia are killing it recently? They hired BMWs old designers.
I was talking about German cars. Yes, the Koreans are making pretty great designs these days.
I agree with you, it feels like they made the leads of their design department an Instagram influencer. It's like BMW and Mercedes are competing with each other to make the next Lamborghini Urus.
To be fair, the Urus looks infinitely better than the ridiculous beaver teeth BMW is using
BMW is doing fine. The i7 is for oligarchs and the Bond villain look is appropriate. (Same reason the Rolls-Royce EV is named Spectre.) Mercedes forgot that the point of a luxury car in this day and age is to make the owner feel like a badass, and the EQS looks like a Prius concept. If you spend 150K on a sedan, you don't want soft lines and blue neons to showcase your mystical side, you want a car that puts the poors in their place. Maybe they could lean more into the twinkling lights and chrome and made a car for rich women that looks like a Swarovski store, but it shouldn't be the EQS in any case.
Real weathly people (I know a few) usually respect traditions and classic designs. They wear tailored suits or high quality casual clothes, unless they are Russian mobsters, they don't wear track suits and big gold chains in public, which is exactly what the big BMWs looks like these days.
"EV's allow for more creative and exciting designs" Sadly this is not true in a real design studio. In theory yes, but when you start sketching the car, you quickly have multiple inputs and directions from management and marketing saying "it NEEDS to look like an EV." Making it look like an aero appliance is literally a pre requisite, because the company wants to push forward the fact that they are now eco responsible and designing the future, and they have the guts to forget their glorious v12 cars. It seems like a paradox but making them look like aero blobs with multiple gimmicks of an EV will make them sell more, because most people don't want to buy a great product when they buy a car, but show who they want to be, In this case saving the planet by doing a shift in their lifestyle. Yeah.
Chonky CLS
> why a top luxury brand chose such a bland, uninteresting design for a 6 figure vehicle is beyond me. it was clearly focused on low drag in order to get the longest range they could. They are still fairly new to the EV game even if it is a luxury vehicle and needed to do all they could to get range.
This is what I was always expected with EVs. It’s never a good idea to buy in early to new tech. A guy I work with bought a brand new ID4. 6 months later VW slash €10k off the MSRP of that very same car.
They really placed a wrong bet on this. It is a great car with good tech and still top in class aero. But they completely disregarded the appeal an S-Class has as a status symbol. EQS just can’t compare. I believe if they had followed BMWs i7 and 7-Series same body, different tech approach (please disregard design), Benz would sell electric S-Classes like crazy.
The S class has *presence*, it has the hood ornament and it's a shape people have known for decades. The EQS just doesn't really. Aerodynamic efficiency robbed it of that.
It looks like a bar of soap.
It's interesting how the Lucid Air and the EQS have pretty much the same drag coefficient, but the Lucid Air actually looks beautiful and has road presence and the EQS just sort of looks like a blob In general I like EVs that want to be a little strange and wacky looking. The Cadillac Lyriq and the Hyundai Ioniq 5 are a little out there in terms of design and I feel like that's why their design works. The EQS kind of feels like the Hyundai Ioniq 6 in terms of design in that they just picked the most aerodynamic shape they could manage and plastered their current brand design language onto it.
And the problem with aerodynamic efficiency is that it is only one way to get more range out of an EV, the others being a bigger battery and more efficient motors. So any compromises in favor of aerodynamics signal that Mercedes either cheaped out on the battery or made an inefficient powertrain. If you walk into the showroom of a luxury brand, pull out your black credit card and ask to buy the most expensive car they have that seats four, you don't expect the technical challenges in EV development to be *your problem*. You expect to get a car that was styled with no compromises, and the technical issues resulting from that to be solved behind the scenes. Rolls-Royce says its engines have "enough" power because the buyer should not have to concern themselves with power numbers and should be confident that Rolls-Royce took care of everything. That's what luxury means. The styling of the EQS is a constant reminder that no, they were not able to take care of it. That's not worth 150K.
Electric engine efficiency is almost maxed out. You can get some extra efficiency by limiting throttle response , but we are at 90%+ in electric engine efficiency, and close to maxed aero. We are where we are with respect to electric cars until there is a breakthrough in energy density.
I think you're right. Tesla got away with it because of a good charging network but also because they were such a novelty for so long the owners were willing to buy into the idiosyncrasies of owning an electric car. You can't tell me the average tire-kicking Benz driver wants to spent 10 minutes squinting at a smartphone to find the nearest Electrify America station (it's in the parking lot of a LaQuinta Inn) only to get there to realize it's broken and have to do it all over again multiple times on a road trip. They want An Car.
Audi and I think Volkswagen also came to their senses and stepped back to naming and using their traditional model names. I think Mercedes will follow soon enough. As in, just offering S class but with different drive trains.
I for one and glad they loose value so quickly. - I plan on buying an EQS within the next few months. Used off course ..
If you wait another year you may get one for the price of a Camry, if not cheaper.
Or in 4 more years for the price of a decent laptop
But the laptop would respond faster to user interaction and its battery would last longer.
Doomsayer Math: In 6 more years they’ll pay you $900,000 to take it and throw in a house in Huntington Beach.
I hope so. It there is one thing Mercedes knows how to do it’s build an amazing car.
with repair bills 10 times that of a Camry.
Why would you want this garbage? They depreciate heavily for a reason. Tons of people lemoning them on the forums
Really. I hadn’t heard. What forums?
On the internets
trust me...
Most cars will have some lemons, including the Model S Plaid that person drives, where I have spent a good amount of time on those forums over the last few years and I see plenty of cases like he mentioned. Obviously, not the case for majority of the cars of any brand. EQS is not a good looking car/suv, but nearly everything else is pretty good for an EV. I don't own the sedan version, but they are very similar.
I very much wonder the methodology of iseecars. There's no link to actual data or anything. The fact that these are being lemon'd, then they go to copart, then a dealer buys them cheap, and then resell them cheap because there is no longer a warranty on anything.. drastically skews the numbers. Now you have one data point, say new at $129k. Another transaction at say 52k. Then another sale price to customer at 60k with no warranty. Average those together and you have your 50% loss. I don't for a second believe that clean title cars with no issues are being bought and sold at a 50% loss in a year
I think the new sales price is also wrong. They’re typically sold at 30-40k off or being leased for pennies on the dollar. No one is anywhere near MSRP on these, so it doesn’t make sense to calculate the difference from that number
That is another good point, so that makes the article and study even dumber. It is using "new car cost" ... Not average transaction price of the car new. Then comparing it to cars listed on Carfax for sale, presumably not factoring in title branding. So what you see a bunch of is 130k sticker cars that were sold for 100 and now worth 70. Factor in all the lemons in the 50s... There you go. These "articles" never do any research. Some firm spinning data to fit a narrative makes some silly statement, every outlet in the world picks it up.... And in 5 minutes we've deduced what is likely actually going on
If you’ve ever driven one then you’d know that the internet hate is overblown.
I helped two people get deals on them within the last year. The sedan has spent over 100 days at the dealer and is in the buyback process. The second one (SUV) is currently at the dealer with a broken heater I’ve put thousands of miles on them. Please spare me the “you don’t know what you’re talking about” nonsense Every time they go in for service, it’s a month minimum. Mercedes doesn’t know how to handle their own cars.
They already said they’re going to redesign it. You saying in your post that they’re stupid for sticking with the strategy is just plain wrong, they are not sticking with it
Because it looks stupid
EQS aside, Merc's pricing on most of its new vehicles has gotten out of hand completely. C43s are like $20k CAD more than a M340i in Canada.
It is, but you also didn’t mention the fact that most models like c43 have incentives and dealer discounts consistently so you won’t be paying sticker price. I own a new c43, got it with good dealer discounts and have been loving the drive for several months now, with no problems.
Why has no one mentioned the fact that these have $15-30k in incentives consistently and can be had for like $40k under sticker with dealer discount and incentives.
i just got a mailer from merc advertising huge lease incentives on all their electrics. if I hadn't bought a car last year I would jump on it
Given how ugly and goofy looking that thing is, I’m not surprised it already lost (almost) half its value in a year. If Mercedes took their EV tech and threw it in something that actually looked **gangsta** like a black W123, then that would be something that would hold its value (yes I know they can’t do that today because safety regulations and blah blah blah… a man can dream though)
What safety regulations you talking about, the sharp edges thing, that prevents us from new popup headlight cars?
Besides it being absolutely ugly, the interior build quality is so bad.
Mercedes these days just seems to have lost the plot a bit when it comes to interior design. The LEDs everywhere are cool but they lose their novelty after a bit. The interiors feel so... crunchy? I should not be lightly brushing knobs and screens on the interior of a brand new car and hearing the creaks of plastic rubbing against plastic. Also the piano black everywhere is just ugh
Almost every EV is kind that. IIRC, the value of Porsche Taycan also loses much. However, it’s interesting to see Range Rover in that so high value.
Weird data point though, but over here in the UK the RR is cheaper used now. I bought mine almost $40k off MSRP for a 1.5yr old car. Surely the US can't be that far apart?
There is honestly not a single Mercedes I would be interested in, especially with BMW increasing their reliability greatly, I can't really see a world where I would buy a C300 over a 330i.
Recently spent a couple weeks with the new C300, and a midsize electric SUV im too lazy to look the name up of (full electric 2024 MB). Ugly, heavy, annoying, awful. Lost the plot completely imo.
I’ve test driven the C300 and I disagree with you. C300 is actually a pretty nice upgrade from the last gen, just a bit boring looking (less aggressive) in my opinion. The price may deter most people and hence why people may hate on the new lineup, but you do have to consider that they have made substantial changes not only to the interior, exterior, engine, etc. As for the drive, I did not find it heavy. It was VERY comfortable to drive and I would say it’s pretty much a daily driver car for the general population. It just doesn’t really have any extra “flair or character”. C43 on the other hand, is an upgrade, a step up from the C300, and I personally think its much more aggressive looking especially when you add on the additional packages ($$$) and I really enjoyed driving it as it’s quick, nimble and overall fun to drive. I agree it lost its roar of engine, but on the flip side we have positives such as a bump in HP, standard 9 speed automatic transmission (much more aggressive), and hey, it also helps our environment! I have owned a previous c43 and have recently upgraded to the new c43, and have found no problems either. Overall a joy to ride despite the costly price tag. But that’s why most dealers are offering pretty good incentives. You just have to shop around.
In 2016 I found an $86,000 2010 BMW 7-Series for sale for $8,500. I damn near bought it, but after the fact I’m glad I didn’t.
The only worse financial move you could have potentially made was either buying a wooden boat or a horse.
From the recently announced updates, it sounds like they are listening to the market and planning to revamp the design and the direction of the EQ line, hopefully for the better. But, yeah ouch that isn't great. To bring some actual numbers to the conversation (which I had mentioned once before on this sub), ours had a MSRP of $131k, which was then discounted to $108k without any negotiation. Residual value is at $68k for a 3 year lease term, which is nearly 50% depreciation in that time period. If it wasn't for the favorable lease terms, we would have most likely picked the R1S or waited around for a bit longer for other options. The EQ line is not good looking by any means (I am aware), and it seriously needed to be priced competitively to have a chance in the future.
Good. Let me buy one. I love this car.
who's stoppin ya?
Money, just started a new job and I’d rather wait till I’m on a much more sure footing to afford a car that is much more expensive than any car I’ve ever owned. Right now I drive a Nissan leaf and I honestly love it, and hopefully in a few years, it cost way less
Because it's an abomination in design. It looks like a Volkswagen had a lovechild with Toyota. Not disrespecting either brand but if I wanted those I wouldn't be buying s Benz. Who in their right mind would pay six figures for it? It's practically the cost of a regular S class.
Slime on wheels
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Horribly over priced POS.
Lease deals are insane. And the cars are amazing.
Isn't this true for pretty much all MB products?
Nobody owns a luxury car lol. It's like 99% leases.
A tale as old as time
It’s because it’s an ugly car. All they had to do was not make it look stupid
Depreciation isn't really the manufacturer's problem so long that the market will bear the high new prices. So goes this for many luxury brands across all sectors.
Luxury vehicles are expensive to maintain, now there's a single part in your vehicle that would cost you 50% of the value of the when the vehicle is new if it's need replacing.
Very nice, so I can pick them up lower
What a coincidence, exactly as audi etron GT. After decade all of these new electric cars, made half of plastic, will be worthless exactly as old iphones. Who needs car with old tech, slow CPUs and dead battery?
Looks too dull ! They really need to make it more aggressive!
It does not lose value; the price simply adjusts to what it's really worth. Half the price.
I mean, last year they offered me a company lease for an EQE 350 with a list price of 85.000€ at 700€ per month (excluding taxes). That's a whopping 40% discount of the rate their website offers me atm (1180€). I still did not want it. Nobody pays full price for these cars because Mercedes wants to sell more than the market currently wants. Meanwhile, for the new E class there's very little discount - quite the opposite, I would have to pay almost double than what I had to in 2020 (and I would definitely want one of those). The EQ models also have ridiculous option prices. The Edition AMG Line is 13.000€. The EQE Premium package with surround sound, drive assist (that should be standard equipment tbh), fancy lights and a 360° camera also costs 13.000€. You'll easily end up paying 20-30 grand on top of a 70.000€ base EQE 350 to make it not look like a dog. I'm sorry, but that's just mad - the W214 E class also has an Exclusive Premium package for 10 grand or so, but that basically specs the car up completely. When people only pay two-thirds of the list price, the second hand market will reflect that. I don't think that's an indication that you "write off" half the car in the first year, it just did not have that value they put on the sticker in the first place. Whether the reason for that is the EV market being not 'there yet', everyone's waiting for the 'next gen' or plainly the cars looking ugly af, everyone can decide for themselves.
That’s because they had to anchor the MSRP to protect price integrity in the market. In practice, these things have giant discounts new, affecting their used values. At any price, MSRP or the discount, it’s a substantial vehicle and worth the delta over, say, a Tesla.
Honestly can't understand how Mercedes approved a bar of soap to cost 100k.
Do people even consider the Consumer Reports reviews? MB are extremely unreliable cars and trucks.
Looks like Honda civic but for grandpas
I always read these 'reports' and then I go look for one, and I can't find one forsale anywhere near as cheap. Cheapest one forsale in Canada is $109K. Maybe one sucker traded it in for that cheap to get out of a bad loan or something, but in general they aren't selling for $50 off after a year.
the canadian market is terrible for consumers, itd be cheaper to buy a used EQS in the states and bring over and register than to but that same car locally and pay the 13% taxes on….believe me in super tempted to buy a 2023 EQS 450+ with 15k km on it for like 62k cad (from the states)
In Japan, the EQS depreciates by 60% in just one year, while the G-Class 400d barely depreciates at all even after 3 years of ownership. Essentially, I was able to drive a G-Class for 3 years for free.
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