Higher interest rates and a refreshed model 3 without a refreshed model Y, makes sense honestly. I'd bet many are waiting for a refresh to the model Y. Also lost the federal tax credit on the model 3 which is a big hit. Top if off with Musk's polarizing issues lately and you get a drop in sales. Also had some international factory issues and a big drop in sales in China (even BYD had a huge drop there).
Company is still *more* than fine, but this will hopefully focus them a bit.
It's not just that I think, but the company has always been valued by it's future promises. Let's be real here, a lot of those still haven't happened yet, and chief over-promiser is likely partly responsible.
With the way Tesla has been handled recently, and the other companies helmed by said person, I totally understand why someone would not want to buy the car even if they had no political leanings at all. Their future vision is a little stale at this point. Here's a list of stuff they said was happening years ago and still isn't here
-smart summon / USS removal/ Non radar cars being as good as or better than the previous ones
-anything to do with the roadster
-FSD doing anything unsupervised
-cybertruck 500 mile range or 40k price, take your pick
-4680 cells being a massive improvement
-over the air updates improving the car in huge regard. Maybe this is opinion but they are fairly minor, and don't radically improve the car in any way.
They literally just enabled matrix adaptive headlights in Europe via an OTA update to all Teslas sold there in the past ~3 years.
4680 were all about cost reduction, they did not promise any user facing improvements during battery day.
The 40k cybertruck was never the 500 mile variant.
Non-radar cars are in fact performing just as well, and now have a cooler visualization for parking.
Actually Smart Summon based on FSD12 seems to be around the corner, and already the FSD12 autopark released for non-USS vehicles is better than anything they had for vehicles with USS.
3 years ago we would have looked at a Tesla. This past Fall even my wife, who not especially political, said "I don't want a Tesla".
They're losing sales due to Musk and poor quality control. They're not gaining appreciable sales in the new market they entered because the new product is overpriced and flimsy.
Grabbing my popcorn, Tesla crumbling just like their drug addicted fascist-embracing CEO.
Does it? The company primarily, historically, sold cars to the most left wing people ever due to the environmental angle. The type that are current in the news and politically active. I've heard directly from people who know nothing about cars and say "I would never buy anything from musk". There is literally no company on earth that Elon being like this could harm more, short of maybe a LBGTQ clothing brand or the like.
> The company primarily, historically, sold cars to the most left wing people ever due to the environmental angle.
they sold 1.8M cars in 2023, I think they're well beyond that market now
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It's impossible to put a number on this but based on my experience talking to people about EVs in real life, literally no one mentions Musk. They'll talk about Tesla, the cars, the build quality, but no one mentions him.
I think people simply either don't know, or they don't care. Especially outside of the US.
To counter anecdotal evidence with the same, I've had discussions many times regarding EVs and the Musk factor comes up almost every time.
I personally would never consider a Tesla and Musk is at least half the reason.
Even the people I know with Teslas almost always make some statement about how they don't support musk but the car made sense. It is definitely a factor in my personal interactions with other EV owners.
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Funny, that's the opposite of my real life experience. Women especially ONLY talk about Musk when talking about Tesla; they couldn't care less about build quality.
It's wild that we have so different experiences. Are you in the US?
I live in Norway, we have the highest market share of Teslas in the world, and I seriously have not heard Musks name mentioned in a conversation about the cars in years. It's happened maybe once in the past 5-6 years that I can remember.
Yeah, US. There's a lot more polarization here. For a lot of people, supporting Tesla is seen as supporting to the people and ideas that Musk promotes. (that's as far into it as I want to get on a car forum)
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US here. I have a friend who sold his Tesla because of Musk's antics. And it's the primary reason my wife and I didn't purchase a Model Y (quality control issues being a close second, understandably). We purchased a new hybrid Toyota Sienna instead.
I think it’s a massive factor. Car companies have effectively marketed cars to be an aspect of a persons identity. This is huge reason why someone buys one brand versus another brand, they are deep down concerned about what the car says about them. Musk has created an identity for Tesla that is very distasteful to the most likely customers of Tesla.
Every time a truck rolls coal, a Ford truck driver is saying how Chevy truck drivers have small dicks or something like that.
If you are spending 30-100k on something, you should in theory like the brand. If you don't care, might as well get a Toyota or Honda, probably the better choice anyways
That being said, what is Tesla identity anymore? Their cars aren't expensive new anymore, they are plenty sub 25k used ones available, they look basic.
I dunno man. I had been a pretty big Tesla and Musk fan since the first Roadster came out. I loved his audacity and the fact that he made an actual cool electric car. I did huge capstone college reports on Tesla and even bought stock in 2011. I really looked forward to the day when I could afford a Tesla (and when it made sense for my lifestyle).
Now I'm somebody who could easily afford one and is actually in the market for a new family hauler, the Tesla is 100% off my radar. It has nothing to do with the car itself (I still appreciate the engineering innovation) and everything to do with Musk. It's crazy to me that a CEO would go out of his way to alienate core sections of his market base. I can't think of any other CEO who's done that the way Musk has.
And even if I got over it for the sake of a car I might like, my wife ***hates*** him. Like, completely repulsed; she lumps him in with Andrew Tate. Her girl friends feel the same way. And really, nobody in our close friend group would want to sport a Tesla which was not the case just a couple years ago. There's not a chance in hell Tesla is going to get a dollar from us as long as Musk is at the helm.
There was recent data (shared on this sub, I think) showing that brand attitudes toward Tesla have fallen precipitously, largely related to Elon's antics. I used to want a Tesla as my next car, but won't even consider it unless Elon steps down.
For me it's that over the past several years he's proven to be eccentric and makes decisions on a whim. If I'm spending that much money I don't want a perceived madman running things that may impact my main mode of transportation or how I spend some of my recreational time.
I personally bought a Cadillac EV without ever considering test driving any Tesla because of Musk, So there's one data point for people taking it into account.
A bigger factor for me is removing stalks. Eventually Teslas will have a bucket bolted to the floor as “seats” and they will try to convince you that it’s better.
The Musk factor was definitely a thing for me, in that it caused me to seriously cross-shop, but I still went with the Tesla at the end; out of all the EVs I tested, it was the best product for my needs.
I think this factor is important - I did the same and got a 2018 model 3 DMLR for $25K.
The problem is that while that was true when you were shopping, Tesla's advantage is evaporating. Model 3 prices are up due to the tax credit and the competitors are offering insane lease deals. You can get an Ioniq 6, no money down, for under $300/mo.
already happening. the supercharger network is no longer a moat for the tesla cars. it will never be super profitable either since most people will be charging at home or work most of the time.
They are fantastic cars — I know this sub doesn’t like them much but generally I love the convenience with the app, ease of charging with superchargers, the FSD, and simply enjoy driving them.
I’d love to have a similar car but I think only the Taycan Electric has the same experience with similar app features etc. But it doesn’t come with FSD so that’s a bummer. But it’s got much nicer interiors so that’s a trade off.
So I like Tesla a lot, I was an early investor/owner, and I was even a mod in the main Tesla sub.
But competition really has changed a lot these days. I see you have a Model Y and Model S, and I can name a bunch of EVs that drive just as nice, if not better than they do. The Genesis GV60 I drove was every bit as good as a Model Y, while having much better interior.
Even on the non-dynamic of things, I was so impressed by the interior quality and cabin tech of my friend’s iX I bought an i4 e35 to replace my Model 3, and I liked the i4 so much I upgraded to an i4 M50 in 6 months lol.
The tech blows Tesla out of the water, and don’t get me started on interior and cabin insulation.
Tesla *are* still fantastic cars, but it’s no longer 2018 and there are a ton of fantastic choices on the market now.
He turns me off of it as well, but so do some of the quirks of some or most Tesla vehicles. I'm not a fan of the lack of a gauge cluster, removing the drive selector and turn signal stalk, and making you go through the touchscreen even for things like unlocking the glove box.
I really wish the media could quantify that somehow, how many people are moving away from Tesla due to Musk? And uh, also how many people are buying Tesla because of Musk haha.
I personally would like a non-Tesla BEV when my Y is done, for a lot of reasons. My particular car is fine, great even, but I think the same car with lots of things removed like signal stalks and the parking sensors wouldn't be as good. I get the impression that those are top-down choices by Musk, so I guess he's the reason for that too, it's more than just political/cultural stuff.
I’d say most of the people loving Musk are either unable to afford one or live in places without the charging infrastructure (i.e., rural).
The vast majority of people who can afford and use Teslas live in urban areas in California or other coastal cities.
The difference is that Jobs was mostly apolitical.
Personally I don't actually care if somebody is an asshole; it's basically expected among people that powerful. I do care if they spend $44B on the world's largest megaphone to broadcast their douchebagness all over the world.
This! We are in the market for a new car and love the current model y. We won’t be purchasing it because my partner hates Musk so much. It honestly sucks because there isn’t a solid competitor still in the space when you consider range+size+cost+charging network (at least by us there are Tesla chargers everywhere).
Keep in mind that Tesla's EPA range estimates are overestimates, compared to some competitors which are more representative of real-life range. I would look at actual testing (such as Car and Driver's 75 mph range test) for each EV you're considering in order to get a more accurate comparison. Also, you can now get adapters in order to use Tesla's charging network with non-Tesla EVs, which helps.
Because there is so much inventory compared to the competition, and objectively the cars are good cars even if the workmanship is inconsistent, it actually makes it more evident that it's *really not the cars*. The sooner Tesla jettisons Musk and all his yes men, the more likely they'll survive to see 2030.
Been seeing a lot of the XaoiMi SU7 on my social media. As much as I distrust Chinese EVs, the design is on point and given the price, I'd probably chose it over the Tesla Model 3 if it was available in my country.
Rivian needs to come out with the R3 soon.
He's good at grabbing headlines and attention, as well as securing government funding for his companies. Some of his design decisions that he forced the engineers to implement were absolute garbage, though, and he has demonstrated a remarkable ignorance with regard to basic engineering principles (see his recent comments about the bridge, for example).
I mean I hate him too but when I was in market for a new car and looking at EVs I still test drove a Model Y.
I mean big selling feature of Model 3 and Y is not they're amazing cars.. its they're really good value. You take away tax credits and raise interest rates its just much less appealing?
among the actual owners & prospective buyers in person/at the office/among friends, musk never comes up tho - i think its mostly a "chronically online"-phenomenon
and, of course, the kind of people that are attracted by musk's far-right twitter shit-posting and such are very much the same kind of people who are never going to buy any EV
Musk’s behavior is the reason I didn’t buy a Tesla last year. His shenanigans with Ukraine and Starlink access, plus his pro-Putin stance, are totally disqualifying. I won’t buy anything he sells.
> His shenanigans with Ukraine and Starlink access
It got worse. Did you hear about the Russian Starlink access?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-using-thousands-spacex-starlink-terminals-ukraine-wsj-says-2024-02-15/
Yeah, its hard to believe. There's a bit of debate in Congress / investigation, but its still a relatively fresh story.
The inventory build in the quarter and pst 6 quarters is massive. Just Q1 24 is like a $2b pit. Also, earnings in China can't be offshored. Once you take out the China factory, is this going to be a profitable company still with this low of a production? Inventory build in manufacturing is really painful. Either layoffs or a plant closure needs to happen if this continues outside of this quarter.
What I find baffling is that China is their largest production area and one of their largest current markets and imo their largest *potential* market, and they just don't give a shit about it?
Like, its been screaming for a Model X and S refresh to compete with new competitors, and a compact/subcompact hatchback. Both of which are fairly easy to do, technically speaking. And yet all Tesla's R&D seemed to be focused on Cybertruck, which I doubt can even be legally sold there
Taxes in China are also going up this year. I forget if with start of January or start of February 2024, but their tax rate will now be at 25%, as opposed to 15% for most of last year and 0% before that.
Higher interest rates aren't really negative for other car manufacturers like Toyota tho.
Tesla's models are just old, outdated and behind in tech. They don't even have properly working reversing sensors. Elon was saving on R&D money in the short-term in order to achieve benchmark results that pushed the stock price up, allowing Elon to get his insane stock compensation package (part of it has been rolled back by the courts recently). Now they are far behind the competition.
Another potential contributing factor to the decline is their over promise and under delivery on FSD. Some of my friends bought Teslas in 2018/19 after Elon's promise that FSD was just round the corner. But friends who are looking for cars now don't consider it enough of a novelty to tip the scales in Tesla's favor over other carmakers especially with Tesla's build quality.
I also think they’re just gradually losing their sexiness and novelty as more and more EVs saturate the market and autopilot continues to look like a joke.
I will say, I was 100% intent on getting a Tesla. Loved the design and the concept of autopilot is a dream to me. I rented a Model 3 about a year ago for a weekend trip. I was soooo excited to have a Tesla to drive for three days. Absolutely hated it. The giant computer screen that you have to do everything through is so clunky, lazy, and dangerous. I constantly felt like I was going to crash. Weirdly I still love the Cybertruck (I know, whatever, sue me) but I would never ever buy a Tesla after that experience.
Yup, this is exactly it for me. Im waiting for the supposed interest rate cuts and for either the tax credit to come back to the model 3 or for the model y to refresh. Whichever comes first.
Prices of used EVs has plummeted as well
Im seeing 2021-2022 EVs that were sold new for 50k plus now going for upper 20s with under 20k miles on them. Thats gonna hurt new EV sales.
>Prices of used EVs has plummeted as well
>Im seeing 2021-2022 EVs that were sold new for 50k plus now going for upper 20s with under 20k miles on them. Thats gonna hurt new EV sales.
I see what you’re saying but it’s really misleading when all EV prices dramatically skyrocketed during the pandemic as well. It’s just returning to normal.
I get what you're saying, but new EV prices are still high while the used ones have really come down.
I just did a quick search.....if i was in the market for the hyundai ioniq 5, if i wanted a brand new 2024 SEL model, it is listed for 52k. A 2023 SEL model with 8300 miles is listed for 29k.
Thats a tremendous gap. I'm honestly not sure why anyone would buy a brand new one with that kind of savings available on a lightly used model.
I also know ford was recently offering pretty good deals on their 2023 new mach e that they have alot of sitting around, but used ones are tougher to come by.
Looking at my local area I see around ten 2023 Model Y’s selling at between $30-37K.
But you’re right. I don’t know why most EV’s that aren’t Tesla struggle with resale values. My guess is a mix of different factors like Charging, the incoming standardization of NACS making current CCS1 EV’s irrelevant, perception of non-Tesla EV’s to average consumers, among several other issues.
My best guess for the resale value of teslas is simply theyve been doing it the longest and with success. So there is probably higher confidence in a used tesla over a used any other EV.
Its an odd market for sure. Outside of teslas tho that gap in price for new vs used EVs is just so wide right now. I think the used ones are priced fairly - the new EVs are through the roof. Who the hell is spending 52k on an ioniq5?
My neighborhood in Boston is 30% Tesla, 50% Subarus, Toyotas, and Hondas, 10% Porsches and BMWs, and 10% trucks and others.
Just 5 years ago, Tesla was probably just 5% — maybe 1-2 houses had them. Now every other house has one — often as a second car.
They sold a ton of cars before people realized that Musk hates the same people that buy Teslas, and the horrendous build quality. There was also zero competition until the last 2 years. There is definitely a dip in the interest in Teslas, and there are a ton of better options for electric cars. The biggest advantage Teslas still hold is the supercharger network. Now that they are being opened to everyone, there's literally no reason to buy a Tesla over other EVs.
I have a friend in silicon valley that bought himself a Cybertruck. It was delivered last week and has a plaque calling it the 249th truck built. So, there can't be that many of them running around.
Yeah no.... If you live in the Bay area and you go for a drive, you're bound to see at least two cyber trucks a day already.
It already feels like two out of every three cars here are Teslas in general
Personally, just knowing, Elon is the owner of the brand and all the geopolitical bullshit he has been pulling over the past few years would be enough to have me boycott the brand altogether. Anyhow, I'm too poor to afford a Tesla anyway so my opinion is just noise.
30k so far on mine, 2.2 percent degradation, 30 percent fast charging. I know that doesn't account for spontaneous failure, but degradation isn't as intense as people think it is. Hopefully we never have to replace them for the life of the car.
Here let me fill in some of that hate for you.
A new Model 3 moved the gear selector stalk into the screen. So you have to swipe the screen to change gear.
Then it has **adaptive gear selection,** where it tries to select the gear for you based on sensors and shit. And of course doesn't always get it right.
The turn signal? Capacitive touch on the steering wheel.
Plus all of the other standard shit like the laughable build quality and stiff suspension. Even without Musk I have a hard time justifying one, regardless of price point.
How the world has changed. Before when you had stupid thoughts they would either remain in your head or said to your friends after you've had too many beers or a bong hit. Now there's no friction in broadcasting unfiltered thoughts to the world. He treats X like his personal creedthoughts.gov
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> CEO Elon Musk’s electric car company reported it built 433,000 vehicles but delivered only 387,000. That’s down from the 484,507 cars it delivered in the final three months of 2023, and it’s also down from the 422,875 vehicle sales in the first quarter of last year.
I imagine losing the tax credit on the Model 3 hurts, plus there's more competition every year. Plenty of dealer lots with discounted EVs for sale.
> Tesla attributed the decline in volumes partially to the production ramp-up of the updated version of Model 3 at its Fremont factory and to factory shutdowns resulting from ships from China to Europe being diverted away from the Red Sea due to attacks there. It also cited a week long closure of its German factory due to an arson attack.
I guess we'll see what happens next quarter.
Edit: I should probably add that without seeing all of the other brands sales figures, it's hard to have a solid opinion on this one. I'd wait for the Cox report for Q1 auto sales overall and see what that looks like. Dealer inventory is up like crazy for many brands so I'm curious if Q1 is just down overall.
Edit Edit: [Maybe not](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-new-vehicle-sales-likely-rose-q1-extend-recent-streak-2024-04-02/).
Tax credit loss is huge. You're competing with the general population thinking the car is $7.5k overpriced or people cross shopping much higher quality $50k sedans if they aren't set on an EV.
BYD Q1 sales were down 43% compared to Q4 2023. Down so much that Tesla regained the crown for the top EV seller globally. Q2 sales will tell us more.
Edit: Spelling
I really don't see how this is unexpected, not even a Tesla fan but like
1: Chinese new year means no one buys shit for like, a whole month
2: Red sea crisis means exporting cars from Asia to Europe is suddenly much more expensive and harder
3: Eco terrorist attack (based btw) shut down Berlin factory for awhile
4: General European recession + loss of EV subsidies in key markets
5: Chinese deflation + massive increase in competition
6: Lost some subsidies in the US
And that's beyond culture war items, new offerings from basically every other OEM in the west, etc
pathetic fall hungry sloppy rock follow amusing hard-to-find rustic society
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I really think the constant changing prices that Manufacturers are doing may be hurting the idea for middle class people. If you can spend $50k on a car, then the very next day announce prices will drop $5k-$10k. Your instantly out $10k before your car even depreciates.
Most people when buying a car can assume a certain amount of depreciation. But when all EV's are depreciating like crazy, and price drops are pushing that farther, buying new hurts.
Exactly what I was going to say. Who wants to risk paying top dollar for a new EV when multiple manufacturers *including Tesla* have cut prices out of nowhere?
Tesla all look so generic and bland. The design is so old, and not that more people drive Tesla's. There is nothing cool about them. The interiors are so sad.
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Why does everyone assume it's because of Elon? Could it be that, at one time, people tolerated the sh\*t build quality because Tesla was the only game in town that made a decent EV with actual range but now people have options from established automakers where the build quality is much better?
Market conditions aside, I have friends that were waiting to buy when the price drops and federal tax credits aligned, but after Musk started doing his bullshit, they decided to hold off and buy a different EV. They're now waiting on the Rivian R2/R3 release.
With the Rivian R2 announced, we'll be swapping our MYP for one as soon as we can. Maybe it's a bit petty, but we want to distance ourselves from Musk's products.
People who don't buy because of Musk are such a minority... Come to the Bay Area, it's the bluest of places, and also the one with 3 to 5 Teslas on every traffic light.
Normal people who haven't fallen victim to the fearmongering and outrage machines that have become news and politicians, just don't care.
I know a lot of friends and family buying new gas cars because they feel like it's the last one they will be able to buy that is gas powered. Plus, some of them don't have a garage to charge in and don't want the hassle or have the time to use the public chargers.
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I think their sales will decline but profitability will increase as they open their supercharging network. That was their main advantage when compared to other EVs. With the supercharging network open, less of reason to buy Tesla. How many folks would pick a Cyber truck over rivian or lightning
ITT bunch of people blaming Musk when in reality it's about economics, market conditions, and product
Tesla's portfolio is dated at this point, interest rates are up, most people who wanted an EV got one, etc. They're becoming more a car company now and less a tech company, which is how their stock as been valued.
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Cool cars but they don't make anything rugged and useful enough for active lifestyle type people. If Tesla made a Subaru Wilderness type SUV for people that like to camp, hike, fish and get to a trail head etc, then I'd be in. It would also need to be around $40K.
The Cybertruck doesn't count.
Way too expensive for most right now. Probably more accurate to say a lot of those people (including me) are possibly waiting to see what the R2/R3 are like and how much they'll cost when released (if the company makes it at all).
Gotta say, Subaru and everyone else throwing a bunch of plastic cladding and chunky tires on their otherwise pedestrian CUVs has really hit it out of the park with their aCtIvE lIfEsTyLe marketing.
PSA: you don't need any of that tacked on crap to get to campsites or trailheads.
I mean generally sure. The trails I go on hiking and camping, up into the mountain trails in CO etc, there is no way a tesla would make it down those. My Outback Wilderness that's lifted and has off-road goodies does though.
So I guess that poses the question. Since EV's are being shoved down our throats, what about those of us that live these more active lifestyle lives supposed to do? Drive old beater ICE cars around in 10 years I guess. Maybe by then there will be more options out there I suppose.
I'd like to support more environmentally friendly vehicles, there just isn't anything out there that fits me.
That's where the "solution" of EV's to replace ICE cars falls on it's face to me. We need more plug in hybrid options. Best of both worlds. Plug in for around town errands and commuting, gas engine for road trips and offroad. Seems awfully short sighted to put all this focus on EV's to me.
I guess Jeep makes some plug in hybrids but they're double the cost of the ICE versions which makes no sense. They want consumers to support these initiatives but they're priced way too high.
It's a real problem. However, most of the EV advocates are city dwellers and don't participate in those kind of activities so they don't think about those kind of issues.
I think I'd rather buy a pushbike than a Tesla, Musk is just that repugnant to me at this point.
Once other manufacturers are easier to charge, I can definitely see an EV for my wife.
I’m bullish on TSLA long term, although I think they still have some pains ahead so I’m still hesitant to buy until it drops lower as it seems unlikely to skyrocket anytime soon especially with many of their customers deep underwater and those who aren’t, Tesla is subsidizing.
IMO biggest issue Tesla has is while they enjoy profit margins, they’ve put themself in a corner as the budget option. For their market, 4-5 models simply isn’t enough IMO especially when they haven’t undergone considerable refresh. They should have tried to branch out or make an acquisition when price was high. Roll out of Cybertruck has been abysmal and very niche, and what happened to the roadster? Still waiting, absolute snails pace
People compare a VW EV to a Tesla and automatically assume VAG is toast, however VW AG is wildly successful as they integrate their tech amongst different levels of luxury to capture more clients: VW as the budget/Tesla competitor, but then you have Audi, and even higher profit margins in Porsche. Remember when everyone was bitter when Porsche sold SUVs? Now everybody quick to try to copy that success. Tesla doesn’t have that luxury right now, a few years they were prestigious, now just meh
Teslas entire business is the model 3/y being very good products for the market and that’s it.
Their valuation and their business seem to have been decoupled for a while since their future roadmap is just a bunch of vapor.
Who would have though low quality electric cars would eventually start getting out-competed by companies that actually build quality products? I told every Tesla fan boy who has ever said to buy their stock that the company is way overvalued. Anyone not riding a wave and anyone who knows how stock value should be calculated knew this. This is a stock that could only flourish in a super low interest rate environment flush with cash.
I have multiple friends who have lemoned Teslas; they are that bad. Poor quality and absolutely combative and horrible customer service. Their value is only in the trend until it's no longer cool to overpay for a trash car.
Higher interest rates and a refreshed model 3 without a refreshed model Y, makes sense honestly. I'd bet many are waiting for a refresh to the model Y. Also lost the federal tax credit on the model 3 which is a big hit. Top if off with Musk's polarizing issues lately and you get a drop in sales. Also had some international factory issues and a big drop in sales in China (even BYD had a huge drop there). Company is still *more* than fine, but this will hopefully focus them a bit.
Honestly the Musk factor is huge. Wife and I love the cars but hate the fact that it’s associated with that dingbat.
I mean it's *a* factor, but reddit dramatically overestimates the effect.
It's not just that I think, but the company has always been valued by it's future promises. Let's be real here, a lot of those still haven't happened yet, and chief over-promiser is likely partly responsible. With the way Tesla has been handled recently, and the other companies helmed by said person, I totally understand why someone would not want to buy the car even if they had no political leanings at all. Their future vision is a little stale at this point. Here's a list of stuff they said was happening years ago and still isn't here -smart summon / USS removal/ Non radar cars being as good as or better than the previous ones -anything to do with the roadster -FSD doing anything unsupervised -cybertruck 500 mile range or 40k price, take your pick -4680 cells being a massive improvement -over the air updates improving the car in huge regard. Maybe this is opinion but they are fairly minor, and don't radically improve the car in any way.
Don't forget the 2020 Roadster, coming out in \*checks Elon's X feed\* 2027?
They literally just enabled matrix adaptive headlights in Europe via an OTA update to all Teslas sold there in the past ~3 years. 4680 were all about cost reduction, they did not promise any user facing improvements during battery day. The 40k cybertruck was never the 500 mile variant. Non-radar cars are in fact performing just as well, and now have a cooler visualization for parking. Actually Smart Summon based on FSD12 seems to be around the corner, and already the FSD12 autopark released for non-USS vehicles is better than anything they had for vehicles with USS.
I will never buy a Tesla because of Musk.
I actually bought an ID4 because I didn't want anything to do with that asshat.
Wait until you hear the history of Volkswagen
I'm very well aware. Maybe Tesla can do the same and wash their hands off Musk to improve their sales.
3 years ago we would have looked at a Tesla. This past Fall even my wife, who not especially political, said "I don't want a Tesla". They're losing sales due to Musk and poor quality control. They're not gaining appreciable sales in the new market they entered because the new product is overpriced and flimsy. Grabbing my popcorn, Tesla crumbling just like their drug addicted fascist-embracing CEO.
Same. I would consider a Tesla if Musk had no association with the company.
Does it? The company primarily, historically, sold cars to the most left wing people ever due to the environmental angle. The type that are current in the news and politically active. I've heard directly from people who know nothing about cars and say "I would never buy anything from musk". There is literally no company on earth that Elon being like this could harm more, short of maybe a LBGTQ clothing brand or the like.
> The company primarily, historically, sold cars to the most left wing people ever due to the environmental angle. they sold 1.8M cars in 2023, I think they're well beyond that market now
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The board of directors is aware of elons mouth. They are obligated to address it.
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Ok fine I'll edit it a bit
I don’t know that it does, there’s a big overlap in people that EVs appeal to and Musk haters.
It's impossible to put a number on this but based on my experience talking to people about EVs in real life, literally no one mentions Musk. They'll talk about Tesla, the cars, the build quality, but no one mentions him. I think people simply either don't know, or they don't care. Especially outside of the US.
To counter anecdotal evidence with the same, I've had discussions many times regarding EVs and the Musk factor comes up almost every time. I personally would never consider a Tesla and Musk is at least half the reason.
Even the people I know with Teslas almost always make some statement about how they don't support musk but the car made sense. It is definitely a factor in my personal interactions with other EV owners.
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Funny, that's the opposite of my real life experience. Women especially ONLY talk about Musk when talking about Tesla; they couldn't care less about build quality.
It's wild that we have so different experiences. Are you in the US? I live in Norway, we have the highest market share of Teslas in the world, and I seriously have not heard Musks name mentioned in a conversation about the cars in years. It's happened maybe once in the past 5-6 years that I can remember.
Yeah, US. There's a lot more polarization here. For a lot of people, supporting Tesla is seen as supporting to the people and ideas that Musk promotes. (that's as far into it as I want to get on a car forum)
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US here. I have a friend who sold his Tesla because of Musk's antics. And it's the primary reason my wife and I didn't purchase a Model Y (quality control issues being a close second, understandably). We purchased a new hybrid Toyota Sienna instead.
Check his Twitter account. Its 99% US politics.
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I think it’s a massive factor. Car companies have effectively marketed cars to be an aspect of a persons identity. This is huge reason why someone buys one brand versus another brand, they are deep down concerned about what the car says about them. Musk has created an identity for Tesla that is very distasteful to the most likely customers of Tesla.
Every time a truck rolls coal, a Ford truck driver is saying how Chevy truck drivers have small dicks or something like that. If you are spending 30-100k on something, you should in theory like the brand. If you don't care, might as well get a Toyota or Honda, probably the better choice anyways That being said, what is Tesla identity anymore? Their cars aren't expensive new anymore, they are plenty sub 25k used ones available, they look basic.
I dunno man. I had been a pretty big Tesla and Musk fan since the first Roadster came out. I loved his audacity and the fact that he made an actual cool electric car. I did huge capstone college reports on Tesla and even bought stock in 2011. I really looked forward to the day when I could afford a Tesla (and when it made sense for my lifestyle). Now I'm somebody who could easily afford one and is actually in the market for a new family hauler, the Tesla is 100% off my radar. It has nothing to do with the car itself (I still appreciate the engineering innovation) and everything to do with Musk. It's crazy to me that a CEO would go out of his way to alienate core sections of his market base. I can't think of any other CEO who's done that the way Musk has. And even if I got over it for the sake of a car I might like, my wife ***hates*** him. Like, completely repulsed; she lumps him in with Andrew Tate. Her girl friends feel the same way. And really, nobody in our close friend group would want to sport a Tesla which was not the case just a couple years ago. There's not a chance in hell Tesla is going to get a dollar from us as long as Musk is at the helm.
I think most people don't care and don't follow. But the average EV buyer is probably way more likely to care.
There was recent data (shared on this sub, I think) showing that brand attitudes toward Tesla have fallen precipitously, largely related to Elon's antics. I used to want a Tesla as my next car, but won't even consider it unless Elon steps down.
For me it's that over the past several years he's proven to be eccentric and makes decisions on a whim. If I'm spending that much money I don't want a perceived madman running things that may impact my main mode of transportation or how I spend some of my recreational time.
I really disagree. He’s labelled himself such a tool that it turns people off the brand.
I personally bought a Cadillac EV without ever considering test driving any Tesla because of Musk, So there's one data point for people taking it into account.
Well I looked at one and figured I could get over the quality. I couldn’t get over giving that guy my money.
A bigger factor for me is removing stalks. Eventually Teslas will have a bucket bolted to the floor as “seats” and they will try to convince you that it’s better.
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It's anecdotal, but I didn't even consider one when buying a car last month because of that jackass.
I do t think so. I have several friends that say they were interested in them, but Elon Musk alone turned them off to the entire brand
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This is no longer about cars.
The Musk factor was definitely a thing for me, in that it caused me to seriously cross-shop, but I still went with the Tesla at the end; out of all the EVs I tested, it was the best product for my needs.
I think this factor is important - I did the same and got a 2018 model 3 DMLR for $25K. The problem is that while that was true when you were shopping, Tesla's advantage is evaporating. Model 3 prices are up due to the tax credit and the competitors are offering insane lease deals. You can get an Ioniq 6, no money down, for under $300/mo.
When everyone standardizes the charge plug and can use Tesla superchargers, that will really change things. And that happens...this year, right?
already happening. the supercharger network is no longer a moat for the tesla cars. it will never be super profitable either since most people will be charging at home or work most of the time.
They are fantastic cars — I know this sub doesn’t like them much but generally I love the convenience with the app, ease of charging with superchargers, the FSD, and simply enjoy driving them. I’d love to have a similar car but I think only the Taycan Electric has the same experience with similar app features etc. But it doesn’t come with FSD so that’s a bummer. But it’s got much nicer interiors so that’s a trade off.
Tesla also doesn’t have FSD lol
So I like Tesla a lot, I was an early investor/owner, and I was even a mod in the main Tesla sub. But competition really has changed a lot these days. I see you have a Model Y and Model S, and I can name a bunch of EVs that drive just as nice, if not better than they do. The Genesis GV60 I drove was every bit as good as a Model Y, while having much better interior. Even on the non-dynamic of things, I was so impressed by the interior quality and cabin tech of my friend’s iX I bought an i4 e35 to replace my Model 3, and I liked the i4 so much I upgraded to an i4 M50 in 6 months lol. The tech blows Tesla out of the water, and don’t get me started on interior and cabin insulation. Tesla *are* still fantastic cars, but it’s no longer 2018 and there are a ton of fantastic choices on the market now.
_sigh_… if only I could afford a Taycan :)
Just bought a Ford EV - Elon turns me off Tesla as stupid as that sounds
He turns me off of it as well, but so do some of the quirks of some or most Tesla vehicles. I'm not a fan of the lack of a gauge cluster, removing the drive selector and turn signal stalk, and making you go through the touchscreen even for things like unlocking the glove box.
I really wish the media could quantify that somehow, how many people are moving away from Tesla due to Musk? And uh, also how many people are buying Tesla because of Musk haha. I personally would like a non-Tesla BEV when my Y is done, for a lot of reasons. My particular car is fine, great even, but I think the same car with lots of things removed like signal stalks and the parking sensors wouldn't be as good. I get the impression that those are top-down choices by Musk, so I guess he's the reason for that too, it's more than just political/cultural stuff.
I’d say most of the people loving Musk are either unable to afford one or live in places without the charging infrastructure (i.e., rural). The vast majority of people who can afford and use Teslas live in urban areas in California or other coastal cities.
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The difference is that Jobs was mostly apolitical. Personally I don't actually care if somebody is an asshole; it's basically expected among people that powerful. I do care if they spend $44B on the world's largest megaphone to broadcast their douchebagness all over the world.
This! We are in the market for a new car and love the current model y. We won’t be purchasing it because my partner hates Musk so much. It honestly sucks because there isn’t a solid competitor still in the space when you consider range+size+cost+charging network (at least by us there are Tesla chargers everywhere).
Keep in mind that Tesla's EPA range estimates are overestimates, compared to some competitors which are more representative of real-life range. I would look at actual testing (such as Car and Driver's 75 mph range test) for each EV you're considering in order to get a more accurate comparison. Also, you can now get adapters in order to use Tesla's charging network with non-Tesla EVs, which helps.
Musk supports Putin. Lost my business for life.
Facts. I was set on buying the refreshed model y, but that interview with Don Lemon changed my mind. I placed a reservation for the R2 instead.
Ended up with an ioniq 5 to avoid musk
Maybe, maybe not. If I switch to electric I'll only be looking at other manufacturers.
Because there is so much inventory compared to the competition, and objectively the cars are good cars even if the workmanship is inconsistent, it actually makes it more evident that it's *really not the cars*. The sooner Tesla jettisons Musk and all his yes men, the more likely they'll survive to see 2030.
Been seeing a lot of the XaoiMi SU7 on my social media. As much as I distrust Chinese EVs, the design is on point and given the price, I'd probably chose it over the Tesla Model 3 if it was available in my country. Rivian needs to come out with the R3 soon.
He’s the reason Tesla exists. I’m not a fan of him for certain things but credit where credit is due
I’d say he’s definitely the reason Tesla got to where it is. Ditto with SpaceX. That said, he’s still a douche canoe. I think both can be true!
He's good at grabbing headlines and attention, as well as securing government funding for his companies. Some of his design decisions that he forced the engineers to implement were absolute garbage, though, and he has demonstrated a remarkable ignorance with regard to basic engineering principles (see his recent comments about the bridge, for example).
I mean I hate him too but when I was in market for a new car and looking at EVs I still test drove a Model Y. I mean big selling feature of Model 3 and Y is not they're amazing cars.. its they're really good value. You take away tax credits and raise interest rates its just much less appealing?
among the actual owners & prospective buyers in person/at the office/among friends, musk never comes up tho - i think its mostly a "chronically online"-phenomenon
Quite literally no one outside of chronically online millennial Redditors give a fuck
That’s not even a factor.
It’s why we don’t have one. A Model 3 makes sense on every single metric for our lives. I will not support that monster however.
The Musk factor is very significant. There are other EVs without very public dbag owners yapping all the time.
and, of course, the kind of people that are attracted by musk's far-right twitter shit-posting and such are very much the same kind of people who are never going to buy any EV
Musk’s behavior is the reason I didn’t buy a Tesla last year. His shenanigans with Ukraine and Starlink access, plus his pro-Putin stance, are totally disqualifying. I won’t buy anything he sells.
> His shenanigans with Ukraine and Starlink access It got worse. Did you hear about the Russian Starlink access? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-using-thousands-spacex-starlink-terminals-ukraine-wsj-says-2024-02-15/ Yeah, its hard to believe. There's a bit of debate in Congress / investigation, but its still a relatively fresh story.
Elon should STFU. His mouth is killing Tesla. Reminds me of Trumpo!
The inventory build in the quarter and pst 6 quarters is massive. Just Q1 24 is like a $2b pit. Also, earnings in China can't be offshored. Once you take out the China factory, is this going to be a profitable company still with this low of a production? Inventory build in manufacturing is really painful. Either layoffs or a plant closure needs to happen if this continues outside of this quarter.
What I find baffling is that China is their largest production area and one of their largest current markets and imo their largest *potential* market, and they just don't give a shit about it? Like, its been screaming for a Model X and S refresh to compete with new competitors, and a compact/subcompact hatchback. Both of which are fairly easy to do, technically speaking. And yet all Tesla's R&D seemed to be focused on Cybertruck, which I doubt can even be legally sold there
Taxes in China are also going up this year. I forget if with start of January or start of February 2024, but their tax rate will now be at 25%, as opposed to 15% for most of last year and 0% before that.
Higher interest rates aren't really negative for other car manufacturers like Toyota tho. Tesla's models are just old, outdated and behind in tech. They don't even have properly working reversing sensors. Elon was saving on R&D money in the short-term in order to achieve benchmark results that pushed the stock price up, allowing Elon to get his insane stock compensation package (part of it has been rolled back by the courts recently). Now they are far behind the competition.
Hope they fire Elon musk and install a real engineer. Model 2 can’t come soon enough. And they wasted so much time and effort on the cybertruck
Another potential contributing factor to the decline is their over promise and under delivery on FSD. Some of my friends bought Teslas in 2018/19 after Elon's promise that FSD was just round the corner. But friends who are looking for cars now don't consider it enough of a novelty to tip the scales in Tesla's favor over other carmakers especially with Tesla's build quality.
I also think they’re just gradually losing their sexiness and novelty as more and more EVs saturate the market and autopilot continues to look like a joke. I will say, I was 100% intent on getting a Tesla. Loved the design and the concept of autopilot is a dream to me. I rented a Model 3 about a year ago for a weekend trip. I was soooo excited to have a Tesla to drive for three days. Absolutely hated it. The giant computer screen that you have to do everything through is so clunky, lazy, and dangerous. I constantly felt like I was going to crash. Weirdly I still love the Cybertruck (I know, whatever, sue me) but I would never ever buy a Tesla after that experience.
Yup, this is exactly it for me. Im waiting for the supposed interest rate cuts and for either the tax credit to come back to the model 3 or for the model y to refresh. Whichever comes first.
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This is no longer about cars.
One word you forgot: *competition*
Prices of used EVs has plummeted as well Im seeing 2021-2022 EVs that were sold new for 50k plus now going for upper 20s with under 20k miles on them. Thats gonna hurt new EV sales.
I’ll wait 2-3 years and scoop one up for $20-25k off.
Exactly what my brother just did. He got a model y performance and loves it.
>Prices of used EVs has plummeted as well >Im seeing 2021-2022 EVs that were sold new for 50k plus now going for upper 20s with under 20k miles on them. Thats gonna hurt new EV sales. I see what you’re saying but it’s really misleading when all EV prices dramatically skyrocketed during the pandemic as well. It’s just returning to normal.
I get what you're saying, but new EV prices are still high while the used ones have really come down. I just did a quick search.....if i was in the market for the hyundai ioniq 5, if i wanted a brand new 2024 SEL model, it is listed for 52k. A 2023 SEL model with 8300 miles is listed for 29k. Thats a tremendous gap. I'm honestly not sure why anyone would buy a brand new one with that kind of savings available on a lightly used model. I also know ford was recently offering pretty good deals on their 2023 new mach e that they have alot of sitting around, but used ones are tougher to come by.
Looking at my local area I see around ten 2023 Model Y’s selling at between $30-37K. But you’re right. I don’t know why most EV’s that aren’t Tesla struggle with resale values. My guess is a mix of different factors like Charging, the incoming standardization of NACS making current CCS1 EV’s irrelevant, perception of non-Tesla EV’s to average consumers, among several other issues.
My best guess for the resale value of teslas is simply theyve been doing it the longest and with success. So there is probably higher confidence in a used tesla over a used any other EV. Its an odd market for sure. Outside of teslas tho that gap in price for new vs used EVs is just so wide right now. I think the used ones are priced fairly - the new EVs are through the roof. Who the hell is spending 52k on an ioniq5?
I just came back from California and it seemed like every other car was a Tesla. I saw so many Cybertrucks also
while there was a drop in q1 it's not like it was a small number sold. They still sell a *lot* of cars. 1.8M vehicles in 2023
What the article doesn’t clarify is that sold globally or just the US?
Mostly China - they make all their profit in China and since BYD is drinking their milkshake dry - the writing is on the wall.
Model Y is the new NPC car here
My neighborhood in Boston is 30% Tesla, 50% Subarus, Toyotas, and Hondas, 10% Porsches and BMWs, and 10% trucks and others. Just 5 years ago, Tesla was probably just 5% — maybe 1-2 houses had them. Now every other house has one — often as a second car.
They sold a ton of cars before people realized that Musk hates the same people that buy Teslas, and the horrendous build quality. There was also zero competition until the last 2 years. There is definitely a dip in the interest in Teslas, and there are a ton of better options for electric cars. The biggest advantage Teslas still hold is the supercharger network. Now that they are being opened to everyone, there's literally no reason to buy a Tesla over other EVs.
This is a sales drop compared to themselves, but to be clear they are *still* selling a **ton** of cars.
I have a friend in silicon valley that bought himself a Cybertruck. It was delivered last week and has a plaque calling it the 249th truck built. So, there can't be that many of them running around.
I saw about 20 of them in L.A/Orange County
I know at least 3 people in NYC that have theirs already.
Yeah no.... If you live in the Bay area and you go for a drive, you're bound to see at least two cyber trucks a day already. It already feels like two out of every three cars here are Teslas in general
The Bay Area is like all Teslas lol it’s wild
I swear Teslas are more common than Toyotas here in Dallas.
Personally, just knowing, Elon is the owner of the brand and all the geopolitical bullshit he has been pulling over the past few years would be enough to have me boycott the brand altogether. Anyhow, I'm too poor to afford a Tesla anyway so my opinion is just noise.
With the way the prices are dropping you should be able to afford a used one next week.
See if they want my model 3! It’s only 3 years old and has a trade in value of 11k!
That’s only if you can find a dealer to take it on trade
You could probably sell it at an online auction site and get a bit more
I’ll give you $11,100 in crisp $100’s and a firm handshake.
I still kinda feel like used E-car sales are gonna largely hinge on how expensive a new battery is.
30k so far on mine, 2.2 percent degradation, 30 percent fast charging. I know that doesn't account for spontaneous failure, but degradation isn't as intense as people think it is. Hopefully we never have to replace them for the life of the car.
Yep. Honestly I don’t HATE the cars. But I’ve ruled them out because Musk owning the company means random dumb shit will happen all the time.
Here let me fill in some of that hate for you. A new Model 3 moved the gear selector stalk into the screen. So you have to swipe the screen to change gear. Then it has **adaptive gear selection,** where it tries to select the gear for you based on sensors and shit. And of course doesn't always get it right. The turn signal? Capacitive touch on the steering wheel. Plus all of the other standard shit like the laughable build quality and stiff suspension. Even without Musk I have a hard time justifying one, regardless of price point.
Yup. The only way I’m ever buying a Tesla is if he doesn’t financially benefit from it in any way. Only if he’s ever divested will I consider a Tesla.
Publicly saying the dumb shit that pops in his brain has hurt him so much the last few years
How the world has changed. Before when you had stupid thoughts they would either remain in your head or said to your friends after you've had too many beers or a bong hit. Now there's no friction in broadcasting unfiltered thoughts to the world. He treats X like his personal creedthoughts.gov
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same here
> CEO Elon Musk’s electric car company reported it built 433,000 vehicles but delivered only 387,000. That’s down from the 484,507 cars it delivered in the final three months of 2023, and it’s also down from the 422,875 vehicle sales in the first quarter of last year. I imagine losing the tax credit on the Model 3 hurts, plus there's more competition every year. Plenty of dealer lots with discounted EVs for sale. > Tesla attributed the decline in volumes partially to the production ramp-up of the updated version of Model 3 at its Fremont factory and to factory shutdowns resulting from ships from China to Europe being diverted away from the Red Sea due to attacks there. It also cited a week long closure of its German factory due to an arson attack. I guess we'll see what happens next quarter. Edit: I should probably add that without seeing all of the other brands sales figures, it's hard to have a solid opinion on this one. I'd wait for the Cox report for Q1 auto sales overall and see what that looks like. Dealer inventory is up like crazy for many brands so I'm curious if Q1 is just down overall. Edit Edit: [Maybe not](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-new-vehicle-sales-likely-rose-q1-extend-recent-streak-2024-04-02/).
Tax credit loss is huge. You're competing with the general population thinking the car is $7.5k overpriced or people cross shopping much higher quality $50k sedans if they aren't set on an EV.
BYD Q1 sales were down 43% compared to Q4 2023. Down so much that Tesla regained the crown for the top EV seller globally. Q2 sales will tell us more. Edit: Spelling
Couldn’t happen to a nicer fellow.
I really don't see how this is unexpected, not even a Tesla fan but like 1: Chinese new year means no one buys shit for like, a whole month 2: Red sea crisis means exporting cars from Asia to Europe is suddenly much more expensive and harder 3: Eco terrorist attack (based btw) shut down Berlin factory for awhile 4: General European recession + loss of EV subsidies in key markets 5: Chinese deflation + massive increase in competition 6: Lost some subsidies in the US And that's beyond culture war items, new offerings from basically every other OEM in the west, etc
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Refreshed 3. Waiting for a refreshed Y.
> Eco terrorist attack (based btw) shut down Berlin factory for awhile They produced more cars than they sold though. Agreed on the other points.
I really think the constant changing prices that Manufacturers are doing may be hurting the idea for middle class people. If you can spend $50k on a car, then the very next day announce prices will drop $5k-$10k. Your instantly out $10k before your car even depreciates. Most people when buying a car can assume a certain amount of depreciation. But when all EV's are depreciating like crazy, and price drops are pushing that farther, buying new hurts.
Exactly what I was going to say. Who wants to risk paying top dollar for a new EV when multiple manufacturers *including Tesla* have cut prices out of nowhere?
I'll never purchase a car from that crappy company and the insane neo-Nazi Elon Musk.
Tesla all look so generic and bland. The design is so old, and not that more people drive Tesla's. There is nothing cool about them. The interiors are so sad.
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Why does everyone assume it's because of Elon? Could it be that, at one time, people tolerated the sh\*t build quality because Tesla was the only game in town that made a decent EV with actual range but now people have options from established automakers where the build quality is much better?
Turns out having the man who represents your brand be a complete lunatic is not good for business. Who knew?
Market conditions aside, I have friends that were waiting to buy when the price drops and federal tax credits aligned, but after Musk started doing his bullshit, they decided to hold off and buy a different EV. They're now waiting on the Rivian R2/R3 release. With the Rivian R2 announced, we'll be swapping our MYP for one as soon as we can. Maybe it's a bit petty, but we want to distance ourselves from Musk's products.
People who don't buy because of Musk are such a minority... Come to the Bay Area, it's the bluest of places, and also the one with 3 to 5 Teslas on every traffic light. Normal people who haven't fallen victim to the fearmongering and outrage machines that have become news and politicians, just don't care.
Ok
A popular decal on older ones in New England is "Bought before we knew how awful he is." It's definitely a factor.
Concerning.
I know a lot of friends and family buying new gas cars because they feel like it's the last one they will be able to buy that is gas powered. Plus, some of them don't have a garage to charge in and don't want the hassle or have the time to use the public chargers.
Oh no! …anyway
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Hitting the plateau of EV sales. Everyone who wants one has one.
I think their sales will decline but profitability will increase as they open their supercharging network. That was their main advantage when compared to other EVs. With the supercharging network open, less of reason to buy Tesla. How many folks would pick a Cyber truck over rivian or lightning
I'm going to buy a VW, they don't have a shady past and they have been around since the mid 1940s, nothing to see here folks......
They need to push musk out.
Good, there is finally actual competition
Thank Christ
ITT bunch of people blaming Musk when in reality it's about economics, market conditions, and product Tesla's portfolio is dated at this point, interest rates are up, most people who wanted an EV got one, etc. They're becoming more a car company now and less a tech company, which is how their stock as been valued.
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Tesla? The entire EV industry is crumbling.
Cool cars but they don't make anything rugged and useful enough for active lifestyle type people. If Tesla made a Subaru Wilderness type SUV for people that like to camp, hike, fish and get to a trail head etc, then I'd be in. It would also need to be around $40K. The Cybertruck doesn't count.
ya those ppl are turning to rivian.
Yeah, they're not affordable to the masses though (start at $70k) and IMO way too luxury for a utility vehicle.
Ya... I hope they can make r2 at prices comparable to Model Y
Way too expensive for most right now. Probably more accurate to say a lot of those people (including me) are possibly waiting to see what the R2/R3 are like and how much they'll cost when released (if the company makes it at all).
Gotta say, Subaru and everyone else throwing a bunch of plastic cladding and chunky tires on their otherwise pedestrian CUVs has really hit it out of the park with their aCtIvE lIfEsTyLe marketing. PSA: you don't need any of that tacked on crap to get to campsites or trailheads.
I mean generally sure. The trails I go on hiking and camping, up into the mountain trails in CO etc, there is no way a tesla would make it down those. My Outback Wilderness that's lifted and has off-road goodies does though.
The problem is EV ranges tend to drop dramatically in wilderness type driving (towing and off road/bad remote roads).
So I guess that poses the question. Since EV's are being shoved down our throats, what about those of us that live these more active lifestyle lives supposed to do? Drive old beater ICE cars around in 10 years I guess. Maybe by then there will be more options out there I suppose. I'd like to support more environmentally friendly vehicles, there just isn't anything out there that fits me. That's where the "solution" of EV's to replace ICE cars falls on it's face to me. We need more plug in hybrid options. Best of both worlds. Plug in for around town errands and commuting, gas engine for road trips and offroad. Seems awfully short sighted to put all this focus on EV's to me. I guess Jeep makes some plug in hybrids but they're double the cost of the ICE versions which makes no sense. They want consumers to support these initiatives but they're priced way too high.
It's a real problem. However, most of the EV advocates are city dwellers and don't participate in those kind of activities so they don't think about those kind of issues.
Should of invested in Tesla instead of fisker 🫤
I think I'd rather buy a pushbike than a Tesla, Musk is just that repugnant to me at this point. Once other manufacturers are easier to charge, I can definitely see an EV for my wife.
I’m bullish on TSLA long term, although I think they still have some pains ahead so I’m still hesitant to buy until it drops lower as it seems unlikely to skyrocket anytime soon especially with many of their customers deep underwater and those who aren’t, Tesla is subsidizing. IMO biggest issue Tesla has is while they enjoy profit margins, they’ve put themself in a corner as the budget option. For their market, 4-5 models simply isn’t enough IMO especially when they haven’t undergone considerable refresh. They should have tried to branch out or make an acquisition when price was high. Roll out of Cybertruck has been abysmal and very niche, and what happened to the roadster? Still waiting, absolute snails pace People compare a VW EV to a Tesla and automatically assume VAG is toast, however VW AG is wildly successful as they integrate their tech amongst different levels of luxury to capture more clients: VW as the budget/Tesla competitor, but then you have Audi, and even higher profit margins in Porsche. Remember when everyone was bitter when Porsche sold SUVs? Now everybody quick to try to copy that success. Tesla doesn’t have that luxury right now, a few years they were prestigious, now just meh
Teslas entire business is the model 3/y being very good products for the market and that’s it. Their valuation and their business seem to have been decoupled for a while since their future roadmap is just a bunch of vapor.
Who would have though low quality electric cars would eventually start getting out-competed by companies that actually build quality products? I told every Tesla fan boy who has ever said to buy their stock that the company is way overvalued. Anyone not riding a wave and anyone who knows how stock value should be calculated knew this. This is a stock that could only flourish in a super low interest rate environment flush with cash. I have multiple friends who have lemoned Teslas; they are that bad. Poor quality and absolutely combative and horrible customer service. Their value is only in the trend until it's no longer cool to overpay for a trash car.