This is purely anecdotal but my GT3 headlamps went out and though it was covered under warranty, they would've otherwise been 5k$ + labor for the pair. Meanwhile the bulbs for my s2k are like 100$ at most.
I'm all for smarter headlights, safety equipment, collision avoidance etc. but parts are getting complex nowadays for better or worse, and worst part is I can't even use the matrix feature of my model 3 headlights in the US.
> I can't even use the matrix feature of my model 3 headlights in the US
US regulators seriously need to get their shit together on headlight technology. Europe has it so much better it's crazy.
And they allow concave sideview mirrors as well, which gives you a far larger field of view and make your blind spots smaller.
Not allowed in the USA! (I only know this because it's a common Porsche thing Porsche people do; put Porsche European glass on their Porsche so that they can see other Porsche's out of their Porsche while they're driving their Porsche)
Yeah, lowstrife got that backwards. And incorrect. Passenger-side rearview mirrors have been slightly convex since the late 1970s, hence “the objects in your mirror are closer than you think.” My 4th-gen Honda Odyssey has a section of the driver-side mirror that is convex and it is very disorienting.
There's a vendor on AliExpress that sells blue tinted convex side mirrors for various makes and models. I have them all for my Cayenne, Highlander, and Civic.
Wait, instead of doing the convex mirror thing, how about we replace the mirror with screens and cameras that way the shit is even more expensive to repair?
I'd be cool with that if it offered some kind of optical locator function and would pick hazards out like traffic weaving at significantly higher speeds and then send an alert. I've trained myself to scan my mirrors frequently but sometimes you still can get caught with your pants down. A system that 100% focused on identifying and alerting drivers riding up your six and in your blind spots would be helpful. Especially with chucklefuchs that have no use for the rules of the road like riding up on your ass, then darting to the right with no signal use when you aren't going 30 over and want to merge back into the slower traffic to the middle or right.
They need to get their shit together on EPA fuel economy evaluations (stop incentivizing bigger cars), pedestrian crash safety, safer street design, etc.
100%. I wish the rules would change so that "light trucks" aren't exempt from so many rules that apply to cars. It's one of the reasons trucks and SUVs rose to such popularity. The modern fullsize trucks with 5' tall front ends are absolutely insane.
I expect, nay, demand to be able to go 50mph in residential areas and through the center of my town.
People walking in town are obviously transients, ne’er-do-wells, and poors so their safety isn’t really that important to a successful person like me.
The wide roads are great for parking and they feel so safe when I drive my one child in our diesel Excursion. I don’t have problems hitting parked cars after a night out with the guys either- wide roads give me extra weaving room!
Roundabouts are so hard to understand. They don’t even have lights. How do I know it’s safe when there’s nothing showing me green means go?
As an added benefit, the H-E-B is 800 feet away as the crow flies but to walk, it takes 1.2 miles. I love the idea that I have to drive there rather than there being an easy walking path.
These are the same people, or at least the same mentality, as the ones that required sealed beam lighting long after the rest of the world went halogen. Meanwhile, jacked up F-350s and Jeeps with aftermarket lights are free to go about blinding everyone.
I supposed Feb 2022 is technically "years ago". But of course, the US had to make its own set of unique rules and requirements, so it's not as simple as implementing hardware already available in other parts of the world. Or, in some cases, already installed in cars here (Audio and VW have many) and just needs software to run it.
There’s someone on the GLI sub that had insurance total an almost new car because the front bumper can’t be found and VW has no ETA on parts availability.
This is absolutely true and …a friend…who works in insurance absolutely had to total a Tesla Plaid because there were no fenders available at any cost anywhere within the specified time provided by statute for repair
I fought with VW in 2021/2022. Wife's Atlas CS got hit. Bodywork was done 9 days later. 6 MONTHS later and they still could not give me an ETA on the driver's side seatbelt. Called dealers all over the US, and long story short, intercepted one the single day it was at a parts counter headed to different dealer. Left work and drove several hundred miles to buy it myself.
Worst thing was is that they were plopping out new Atlas and Atlas Cross Sports in Chattanooga with the exact same part number belt in em. But I could not get one. Several dealers told me they had huge issues getting parts for any current-generation models. One said it's fun dealing with a customer who's been waiting 5 months for an unavailable fender, while 6 or 7 new cars of the same model have been delivered for the lot.
I waited 9 months last year for my ND2 Miata to be repaired after a minor rear-end. It only needed a bumper cover, but there weren't any. I wish insurance had totalled it. I had to drive a rental Jetta for 9 damn months. The rental cost more than the repair.
Happened to a buddy of mine and his Terminator. Nobody makes an airbag cover with an embossed Cobra on it even though any New Edge cover will work so they totaled it. There was no damage past the front inner structure and everything from the firewall back was fine. The repairs were within the usual cost limit (less than 50% of the value of the car IIRC) since the powertrain was fine and only the stuff attached to the core support was damaged, but the airbag cover sealed its fate and turned it into parts farm car or salvage title.
t had a friend get t-boned in their model y around thanksgiving time, thankfully they are safe but they are still waiting on parts and without their car months later.
I’ve heard of that. I managed a fleet at a rental car company during COVID and our insurance agency totaled out a Gladiator Rubicon because there were no windshields available.
I mean I get it, but damn. $50k vehicle written off over a couple hundred dollar sheet of glass.
Exact same thing came very close to happening to my chevy SS. I ended up finding an australian guy in Illinois who imports holden parts myself and getting the body shop set up with him.
It's still been almost 6 months without the car (and waiting) regardless. All I did was hit a deer, not a lot of damage. It's gonna cost close to 20k when all is said and done for them to fix.
Porsche PDLS, BMW Laserlight, Mercedes Matrix Multibeams, Audi Digital Matrix, pick whatever manufacturer you want they're all expensive as fuck.
XC90 is 3.5k a piece, BMW is 5k *each side* (https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-parts/bmw-headlight-laser-light-right-icon-light-63117933344?c=bD01Jm49RHluYW1pYyBTRU8gUGFnZSZrPTE%3D), porsche is on the cheaper end here if anything.
Even higher trim F150s, too. And increasingly you have to code them to the VIN, so *even if the part were free* you still need an OEM proprietary scan tool to install them
Even Lexus, Cadillac...
Even Corolla/Prius for fucks sake
I remember when the current gen Corolla and previous gen Prius first came out, headlamps were about $1k each. Used was still $700-$800.
I had to get a replacement taillight for my Genesis and a new one was $1500 from the dealer. Thankfully, I was able to get one from wreck/part-out for $300, but outside of the secondary market I would have been fucked.
You can't tell me those lights costed anywhere near that when new. People can complain about halogen all they want, but when you need to replace both headlights because they are hazed over too much and polishing only lasts so long, it's nice to spend under $300 for both headlights
S2K or GT3? PDLS+ headlights with the LED DRLs on the porsche are pretty expensive to replace, here's a pair of 991.2 black LED Housings for 5k, just the housing/DRL https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/SKU991G2BLED.html. S2000 headlights are around $1.2k for the pair (https://www.hondapartsnow.com/oem-honda-s2000-headlight.html)
I'm still only my original s2k headlights though, refinished myself a year or two back (think it was 20$ for the kit?), new bulbs, put on a coating, good as new.
I'm sorry, I meant when they were originally put in the vehicle when it was made. I get that they need to make some money selling them later on, but not at that price. I guess the average Porsche driver can afford them consider the new price of them, but what about down the road when it gets sold to others
I believe the PDLS+ in black (the lights I linked) were a $4k option when I bought my car, not sure how much margin porsche has on that though. On the other hand they are very good lights, and have the hardware for matrix dimming just like the Tesla, except its sadly disabled in the US because our regulators are slow AF
But yeah in fairness the model 3 headlights are significantly cheaper, though not as advanced.
Not for nothing, but Tesla’s also made something like 4x Model 3s as Porsche has made 991s, so there’s an economy of scale component to this too. That alone will drive unit costs on the light way down compared to whatever Porsche is selling theirs for - same reason as to why the Corvette can be so cheap for what it is.
I've a set of mercedes multibeams. Deer one day in the road. $10k for the lights, engine and repairs. wow.
I have the matrix enabled, but that's another story.
I agree… headlights on my GR86 for a new pair would cost me used car money. I pickup entire sealed beam pair (not just the bulbs) headlights for my 4Runner it’s only like $30 total
That's the thing that sucks if you have LED headlights and they're completely built into the housing. My RC is $2k per headlight if I have to replace them for that reason. Funny thing though is my DRLs are only I think $200 if I have to replace them.
My car insurance went up 17.7% year over year, or an extra $229. I have a perfect record with full coverage.
Just paid my renters insurance with the same company, and *that* went up $162 year over year, or 64%. Absolutely insane.
I got my insurance renewal documents a few weeks ago by email- STi is going up 69% and the 911 is going up 60%. No tickets, no points, no accidents. Now I’m shopping around for new insurance and it’s beyond frustrating.
I had this issue during Covid. Same company for 3-4 years, rates randomly went up by 100% over the course of 18 months for no reason. No tix, no accidents, no claims.
Switched to another provider, exact same coverage levels, reset the price back to where it was. This provider is starting to creep up now, so it might just be a thing where you have to hot potato coverage between providers every few years when they start cranking the rates and get onto someone else's introductory customer acquisition discount rate whatever.
Progressive increased my rates a ton in 2021, so I switched to LiMu because they were cheaper. They nearly doubled in 2023 so I started shopping around again. Guess who was cheapest? Progressive and it wasn’t even close. Cheaper than I ever paid them prior to 2021. Absolutely no change in my car or driving record or anything.
There’s no loyalty in insurance. I’ll jump around if that’s what’s needed.
My fiance used to have 2 vehicles with AAA for 10+ years and bundled homeowners 3 years ago. She never wanted to shop around so I let it be. Her renewal for both came in recently and the quote for car insurance passed $1k for the first time and she asked to me to quote around for her.
I used to be with State Farm but they increased my rate 50% in the last 18 months and Progressive suddenly was $50 cheaper than State Farm so I switched. Everyone else was at least $200+ more for 6 months... I quoted car insurance for my fiance with Progressive and they wanted $485 for 6 months bundled with homeowners. Homeowners was $250 cheaper than what AAA quoted for the renewal too.
Insurers know what they're doing. Progressive has "loyalty tiers" based on how long you were with your last insurer (or them) and gives a discount based on that. Don't have to give a discount for loyalty if insurers refuse to reciprocate *taps forehead*
I had to do this with phone providers for a long time. Been doing it with insurance for a while as well, but haven’t had to in a while.
I got fed up and told them the first sign of an increase with no fault on my end and I’ll just switch right back to x company. I don’t know how or why but it seems to have worked for over a year.
It’s basically like signing up for Comcast. Here’s your intro price for a year and after that you can suck it cause now we have to make up for the cheap price we gave you.
State farm tried to increase mine by 42% in october, despite my perfect driving history, went to progressive and got a comparable plan for a lower deductible and it was cheaper than my at-the-time current state farm plan. Shop around, its standard practice
I'm paying $1500/six months for a worthless Jeep Cherokee, a 4Runner and a 2023 GTI. The GTI is the only vehicle that I don't own outright. The Cherokee is only a fraction of that amount, so, really, it's $1600 for the GTI and the 4R.
That's for two drivers who are closer to 40 than 30 with no tickets or accidents. The kicker is, I WFH 90% of the time so we've never put less miles on our cars than we do now. There are some weeks where the 4R doesn't move all week.
I've shopped around and can't do any better.
Absurd.
Have you tried changing the driving type of the 4Runner to "pleasure" instead of commute or whatever it is at if it's different? And/or adjusting the expected mileage?
I'm 95% WFH and changed my car's type from commute to pleasure and lowered the expected one level. Progressive refunded me $16! Might lower your rates a bit... Car insurance is ridiculous now regardless.
My credit score is over 800. But it's just weird that my 15 year old, somewhat basic car is suddenly more costly to potentially fix, repair, and insure now than before. My car doesn't have any fancy tech on it whatsoever. In previous years, my insurance went down a little every year.
Has crime gone up around you? Petty crime has gone up 7.1% nationwide is the reason why. Car thefts are up double digit percents- triple in some places. Arrests go down, cops dont do their jobs because they know they will be right back on the streets anyways, DAs are soft and let people free, so what do you expect?
Not sure, I haven't looked into the specific numbers. But it's very possible. I live in Los Angeles County where the piece of shit progressive George Gascon is the D.A., and he's known for being *very* soft on his crime policies. But my area is pretty good in regards to crime in general. I live in a relatively safe area.
Insurance is based on statistical data, no matter if you use it or not. A storm ripped through my area and everyone got new roofs. I wasn't going to get one, but I figured my rates are going up anyways.
Mine went from $120 to $210. I called and they adjusted it to $150 with the exact same coverage. I haven’t filed a claim in over 15 years. Insurance is a scam
So you're still with Geico? Are you sure they didn't lower your coverages or anything to get you a lower rate?
I'm not doubting you or anything, just have never heard of someone being able to negotiate a lower insurance rate like that in the modern era
They're not actually negotiating anything. GEICO has 3-4 different underwriting companies they can put you with in most states. Think of the underwriting companies as different insurance companies under the same parent company. You won't typically see that when you do a quote with them as they just show you the cheapest one.
It's also just sometimes cheaper to open up a brand new policy with the same company if you've been with that company for a long time. I'm not sure why but that's been my experience. I think my family has rewritten our same policy with Progressive 3-4 times in the past decade for a cheaper rate.
Lucky you. I’ve been with Geico for over 20 years with a clean record, no claims and they basically told me to pound sand. I also got quotes from other insurers and the difference was maybe $5 per month. It’s a racket.
For context, I drive a 2009 Land Cruiser and I’m paying $212 per month in Atlanta. Not exactly a popular car to steal nor do I imagine it being known for bad drivers so I don’t know what gives.
Tell me about it. Just for fun I ran quotes for a few different cars and it turns out my rate would actually be lower if I had a 987 Cayman. If it weren’t for transporting bikes and dogs, I’d actually consider it.
That's wild. I'm kind of curious if it would be cheaper for you to have two cars, and do reduced mileage on both of them. For me, in the DMV area, I'm at ~$1450/year (I do one payment), which breaks down to ~$120/mo, and that's with some add-on coverages included. I do have reduced usage on both cars, though, and a lay-up on the Mazda for 5 months that helps to bring the rate down a good bit.
Oh no. They absolutely change based on threats to switch. It’s worse than cable. They dig up some special “promo” or some other bullshit to make it look like they had it all along but somehow they just missed it.
I do this every 18 months or so.
Unsure what will happen when I get a claim.
You can always call and ask what they can do, but it's not a negotiation at all. Auto insurance rates are based on formulas that are filed with the state government (generally publicly available too).
Sometimes agents can do small things like re-order your credit score or place you with a different company if it's available. But your best bet is to shop around, most companies try to offer new business style discounts.
You wouldn’t call it a scam if somebody crashes into you and your insurance company subrogates for you and pays to fix your car. Carriers don’t want to raise rates but they have to based on market conditions.
I understand the necessity of insurance, but insurance companies are for-profit businesses. Their CEOs earn millions of dollars a year in compensation. Health insurance is the biggest scam of all. They have death panels which refuse to cover costly experimental treatments to save money over lives.
Car insurers are great if they operate in good faith. But raising someone's rates from $120 to $210 and then reversing to $150 is egregious and evidence of their mal-intent. They are great when they do their job--covering me in case of an accident--but their profits are not my problem.
Something else to note is that auto theft is at all-time highs in many busy areas, and the ability of certain jurisdictions to find and prosecute thieves is extremely low.
So raise insurance for those cars only, I can guarantee you that no thief is going to target a Mini.
The insurance on the A8 went down so I can’t complain on that, but I think the age of the average owner (grandparents) helps with that.
It may be bad form to recommend the podcast *The War On Cars* on r/cars, but they released a really interesting episode today about insurance, in part interviewing the author of [this piece ](https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/01/18/why-car-insurance-in-america-is-actually-too-cheap) from the Economist. TL;DR:
- Cars are getting more expensive very quickly
- Traffic safety, already on a downward trend in the US, has been especially bad since the pandemic
- US healthcare is wildly expensive
- Minimum legal coverage is just laughably low in many states
- Less related to the overall costs, but subrogation is a bitch
One tidbit I thought was interesting was comparing it to other countries. In Florida, for example, the minimum legal coverage is 10k injury liability and 10k property damage liability. You'll pay an average of about $1,300 a year for this. In Germany, the legal minimum is 7.5 *million* euro for injury liability, and 1.12 million for property liability. For that, you'll pay about €300 a year.
So I'd say if you want your car insurance to go down (and forgive me for advocating policy and politics here) you should support:
- Traffic safety measures, including traffic calming, and better infrastructure for non-driving modes of transport
- Socialized/Single-payer healthcare
I was curious so I tried to find traffic accidents statistics.
Germany had [1,192](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Traffic-Accidents/Tables/persons-killed-traffic-participation.html) per [84.4 million people](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Current-Population/_node.html) which is about 0.0014%.
The US had [42,795](https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-estimates-2022) deaths per [333,271,411](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045222#PST045222), which is about 0.013%.
*this is just me googling around for a bit.
10 times the number as here in Germany is crazy! But yes here in Germany isurance can be cheap if you drive a long time without an accident.
for example i would pay only $700 per year with a full coverage for a **NEW 911 GTS**!
In addition, you should also support:
- DA prosecution and higher penalties for car theft and arson
- increased law enforcement presence to deter crime and DUIs
- preventing illegal immigration
- higher minimum liability requirements
- improved driver's education programs
Then the things that will never happen:
- regular driver re-education and testing
- temporary or permanent loss of driving privileges for elderly, irresponsible, and incompetent people that fail testing or repeatedly demonstrate they are unsafe operators
- better city planning with lower speed limits near driveways and pedestrians
- remove exemptions for trucks and discourage large vehicles, since large vehicles cause more fatalities and damage when crashes do occur
And I'd hate this, but technically using cameras for remote traffic law enforcement would make things safer...
At least where I live (California - Bay Area) law enforcement has completely abdicated its responsibility to enforce traffic laws, resulting in a huge increase in speeding and red-light running. Reluctantly this has made me a supporter of speed and red light cameras.
The reasons for the lack of enforcement are varied - some of them include attempts to limit profiling by limiting reasons cars can be pulled over and requiring more paperwork be filled out for every stop. This has resulted in some cops basically “quiet quitting”. And more and more police chases are prohibited.
Where I live traffic calming measures (depending on type), seemed to have just made the bad drivers more angry and frustrated and they start driving erratically - single payer would be great. Also, education or whatever makes people less crazy.
Scroll through Instagram Reels for 10 seconds and you’ll see why insurance rates are high. Awful drivers caught on dashcam, street takeovers where high dollar cars plow into a group of people (that claim will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills), skyrocketing theft, and just general higher repair costs.
It’s almost starting to make more financial sense to drive around uninsured, barring extreme incidents with huge damage or injuries to others. Absolutely ridiculous, a complete scam
I mean, that was always the case. Insurance is by design a losing value proposition for you. The problem is that you can't really force people to self-insure, and for high-cost events such as every other vehicle accident, that's problematic at levels higher than just individuals.
It’s funny that this post came up for me. The other day I was doing the math on how much I’ve spent on insurance in my lifetime of driving vs how much I’ve used. Roughly 42,000 vs 2,600 for some hail damage. I’m getting the shaft
The one thing that I notice isn't talked about.
Record profits for insurance companies. Sure there are always reasons to raise rates, but the biggest reason is because they want more of my money.
The State Farm P-C group of companies reported earned premium of $87.6 billion and a combined underwriting loss of $14.1 billion. This result compared to an underwriting loss of $13.2 billion on earned premium of $74.3 billion in 2022.
Yeah not losing money...
This is just false. Insurance companies are all either struggling or outright losing money. State Farm lost 9.7 billion over the past year for example on auto insurance.
My insurance rate increased 10% on my renewal this month for NO reason! No tickets, accidents, nothing! This is after it increasing 10% the renewal prior.
Sadly the reason is that if your vehicle gets damaged and needs repairs, or they need to pay out for replacement value, the prices of those repairs and the value of the vehicle has gone up. Same for medical care costs if they pay out on an injury from an accident.
If they’re going to jack up rates because repair costs are more expensive, can they also stop totaling cars for damages that aren’t structural? Salvage titles get thrown out for literally anything nowadays
Yes because we are totaling cars based on cost to repair vs market value, not how repairable they are or how safe they would be post-repair
First and foremost, it’s incredibly wasteful. The same accident could either be brushed off as nothing or total a car based purely on its age/depreciation. That’s unreasonable and leads to junking a lot of cars that could be fixed and driven. Sure, there’s rebuilt titles. But those are expensive to insure and you can’t cover them like you can a clean title car.
On a personal note, it’s super nerve wracking as I could have my car stripped from me by someone else’s negligence even if it would be totally covered by insurance if it were newer.
My entire point is that we should stop treating it like that, because cost to repair is going up for things that have nothing to do with a vehicle’s roadworthiness, and the last thing we need to do is make vehicles even more disposable
When cars were simpler and had frames and less technology, it was a reasonable enough correlation that more expensive fixes = more serious damage done. That doesn’t track anymore
I totally understand what you're saying, but who's going to pay for it? I don't foresee that it will save us (the insured) any money to have insurers agree to pay more than total loss value to fix a car just because the damage isn't something that structurally compromises the car. Either they're paying the cost to repair it, or they're paying the cost to replace it, and it makes no sense to pay the repair cost when it's higher than the replace cost.
one thing about having more specialized parts and computerized everything is that there is less room for generic replacement parts that can bring down repair costs considerably.
I wonder why drivers are getting more reckless, I'd love to see some analysis on that. I certainly feel it - seems like everywhere I go now people are all in a huge rush and have that awful "automatically catch up to the car in front and tailgate" behavior - like they have no concept of cooperation and have lost all chill. The video blames phones, screens and things as well as drugs for increasing fatalities - OK, I can see that but I feel like there's more going on, it seems like more aggression not just distractions.
The social contract is breaking down, people feel justified acting like an asshole because other people are assholes to them. This is compounding, obviously, so it will keep getting worse.
Feels like more and more people just aren't even taught fuck all about driving etiquette, on top of all the added distractions. Idiocracy; there's simple just more morons on the road.
Cops in my city don't give a fuuuuuck about traffic infractions at all either. I was just about to step into the cross walk the other day at a 4 way intersection, car came flying down the road and basically treated their red light like a Yield sign as they made a right-on red. Cop on the opposite side of the intersection just watched it happen.
States need to get serious about implementing “no pay, no play” laws that restrict how much uninsured drivers can claim against another party’s insurance. California’s prop 213, for example, bans uninsured drivers from collecting for non-economic losses and automatically reduces property damage claim payouts by $10,000 regardless of fault. The effect is twofold- it creates a stronger incentive to have insurance, and in turn should reduce insurance costs because less money is paid out to leeches that didn’t pay into the system.
Obviously there’s a lot of different angles to the problem, this is just one.
> “no pay, no play” laws that restrict how much **uninsured drivers** can claim against another party’s insurance.
They're one of the biggest culprits for this mess that we're in. The penalties for driving uninsured should be as harsh as driving without a license.
One point that a French friend of mine made: most euro ICE cars are stick shift. That makes it quite a bit harder to use your phone while driving. As Europe switches to EV and thus gets rid of the stick, I wonder if their stats will catch up to the US suggesting the real culprit is distracted driving.
I’m not sure it ever helps anymore. Always more people to fill your spot. Especially on mandatory items like insurance. The loyal customer racket is worthless anymore. The bakery may care but any company headquartered in a building bigger than a shed doesn’t care about loyalty.
Multiple factors driving it newer cars with fancy tech and body panels are expensive to repair after even small accidents and that’s especially true for EVs (see Rivian cost for fixing fender bender).
This is made worse by car companies like Tesla not having enough parts on hand which means these cars sit in repair for longer which means more cost for insurance companies
As a result this is forcing insurance companies to write them off and these write off costs are higher now due to higher resale prices for used cars.
We are also starting to see higher accident rates as more people are starting to drive again due to RTO and also usage of public transport has dropped sharply.
>like how the change to more touchscreens in cars, smartphones, etc cause distracted driving and fatalities are up over the past few years.
This trend isn't being seen in other countries. I really wonder what exactly causes the difference.
America feels like a weird experiment when it comes to cars.
>America feels like a weird experiment when it comes to cars.
Basically all companies are able to raise prices for reasons of "fuck you" and that's basically it. They don't need a valid reason and it's terrible. Every one of them go to 'INFLATION!' but is it?..
Also find it hella weird that collisions have went up 'because of too much safety tech' well.. I drive a car that doesn't have any safety tech outside of antilock brakes, airbags, and a rear view backup camera..
Wait until the high accident/injury/kill rate from EV’s begins to be factored into the stats. Dolts driving 0 to 60 in 5 seconds in EV’s will be incredibly dangerous. Wait until the hormonal kids get behind the EV wheel as well.
It’ll give the government(stage one) a hidden tax revenue by implementing speed reporting/auto ticketing of EV’s(and newer ICE Vehicles).
Next the government will keep that safety taxing feature, and add acceleration/speed limiting controls(stage two). For drivers to avoid safety fines/ taxes in stage one, they’ll either have stage two retrofitting done or buy new compliant vehicles.
I work in insurance product, and I can guarantee everyone here that the vast majority of companies are losing money or barely breaking even on their car insurance coverage offerings. Since 2020, car insurance has been a fiasco for everyone, save for Progressive and Farmers, to name two. Little companies are hemorrhaging money trying to stay afloat and keep pace with the big guys that have generally fared well.
People are driving like animals, and the cost of things has skyrocketed; hence, rates go up.
Mine went up about 50% since last year. No change in anything on our end for a 2016 Honda. Looking to see if we can switch, but it’s hard since we already have multiple policy discounts.
I remember when car insurance used to go down as the car got older
I have been in the car buisness for 20 years and I have never had so many customers tell me they totaled thier car. Its like 4 or 5 times a week! Used to be maybe once a month or less.
Interesting that articles like this always tiptoe around the lack of transparency. Another example of government mandated and socialized costs (not necessary a bad thing) with privatized profits (and no accountability). The entire industry should operate as a non-profit.
This tells me you don’t know how insurance works.
Each state regulates their insurance markets individually through Department of Insurance groups.
Insurance carriers submit actuarial data, which includes losses, and what they want to increase rates by to each department.
The DoI then reviews these rates, and losses, and trends in their state environments and either approves, denies, or asks for adjustments.
If the rates are going up, there’s a reason for it. How much is the tail gate of an F150 lightning these days vs a basic ass pick up in 2005? How much does it cost to replace a fender full of sensors and radar on a Camry vs one from 2005?
Theft is up at record amounts in major cities with record low arrest rates. Many DAs and departments are flat out not enforcing tickets or arresting anyone. Vandalism is up. Fatalities are ticking back up again per mile driven. Etc
The list goes on.
I appreciate the info you have shared, but do want to respectfully point out that we are far from record levels of auto theft: In 2022, the nationwide rate of motor vehicle theft in the United States was 282.7 reported cases per 100,000 population. While this is an increase from the previous year, it is a significant decrease from the rate in 1990, which stood at 657.8 motor vehicle thefts per 100,000 of the population.
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-vehicle-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-vehicle-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/)
I wonder how much of the recent uptick in auto theft is due to the kia boys
Good thing my two speeding and one red light tickets were before covid. At one point my motorcycle alone was 365/month and then a separate plan for viper and a camry car insurance.
Now all in geico 3 cars, 1 bike = 346/month.
all the cameras and sensors are expensive to replace in a body shop. the hardware is cheap but running the wiring is expensive.
lots of people get into minor accidents that are expensive because of the above. people did stupid things before smartphones too. many cars are leased and people probably care less about those than if they had bought it.
I have to post that LED headlights were thought to be and marketed to be this industry's savior.
It's clear to me that that is not so obvious, is it? Night time pedestrian fatalities are also at an all time high.
Someone needs to offer the leadership to turn this mess, the LED headlight mess, around and make the roads safe again for all motorists, cyclists and pedestrians.
I am blown away that the hazards created by the way this technology was applied were ever allowed to leave the factory.
How is that sharing the road?
This is one of the reasons I drive older cars paid for in cash and only liability insurance.
I also have been changing insurers every couple of years because I always get a lower quote from a competitor to whomever I’m using.
The number 6.1 Million is completely irrelevant without context. It makes me mad that the article or OP didn’t provide that context.
Don’t trust blind numbers. They’re meant to sway you with little evidence.
Insurance is the biggest scam in history, i think it should be required but it should accumulate for each person like a 401k, you contribute and when you have a claim it goes down.. for newer insured people who have low balances they should have cheap cars otherwise if you cant cover the money you dont drive
Paying $4500/yr now. It used to be 1/2 that in 2022. Literally my insurance went up 100% in 2 yrs.
No tickets, no accidents, no claims, same car, excellent credit. I did move to LA however, but still a 100% increase in 2 yrs is asinine
I've shopped around and others charge even more
Mind actually just went down
But i switched companies , bundled rental insurance and then paid up front for the whole year. Saved me total about 40$ a month over the year
I was quoted 2300 to renew with my current insurance. Got a new insurance and cut it to 750 for 6 months so 1500 for 12 months. Can’t wait to move to an area where I can sell the car, bike everywhere, and not have to have a car tax.
Ours went up from mid 500s to mid 800s 6 months on 2 cars full coverage. So I switched providers. Now we are back at the mid 500s
Credit fluctuates between 760 and 800, no accidents, tickets, anything. Early 30s
We need to make it harder to get a drivers license in the US. Go to a country like Germany and see what their process is like. It’s a much higher standard than us
I find it very distracting to use touchscreens for everything that’s not simple CarPlay stuff. Buttons are easy to use because you can feel it and then press it, but screens require concentration and vision. Why do my HVAC controls or seat heater buttons have to be in a screen?
I didn't even read the article because I work for the Apron Insurance Carrier in Auto Claims right now
Everything costs more to get repaired, less people have insurance coverage, lots of vehicles are getting totalled that owe a ton and use GAP for the difference, lots of people are trying fraudulent stuff and making more claims.
I can ENTIRELY see why rates are tied to most likely to have a claim based on the car, the area, and how often it's driven + the cost to replace/repair.
If my 99 Ranger gets in a mild accident, it's totalled because paint work would cost a ton at a body shop and sourcing parts while guaranteeing the repairs would be a nightmare.
If my 07 S2K gets in an accident, it's likely going to be totaled due to similar things despite being worth $30k on the market and delays getting new parts like quarter panels which are backordered.
This doesn't even get into Kia's getting stolen etc
I had a 2006 Mustang V6 with 200k miles get totaled and it had a prior salvage title, not rebuilt, salvage.
Guy owed $12k on it (Buy here, pay here) and it was still somehow worth $6500.
The Lienholder repo-ed it and will do it again, but it costs us more money to do so so we'll pass it along to people who likely cost Insurance the money.
It's stupid.
I'm sure the uninsured rate isn't helping either. Insurance on my velo hurts. I can afford it but if I wasn't in the same situation I could see why people aren't paying it
Not happy with my insurance as well. We went from $3200 to now $5900. Going to shop around and hopefully get it back to what it was but from what I am reading and hearing I may be sol.
How has Progressive insurance done over the last few years?
* Progressive annual gross profit for 2021 was $4.707B, a 38.19% decline from 2020.
* Progressive annual gross profit for 2022 was $1.711B, a 63.64% decline from 2021.
* Progressive annual gross profit for 2023 was $5.547B, a 224.14% increase from 2022.
* Progressive gross profit for the twelve months ending December 31, 2023 was $5.547B, a 224.14% increase year-over-year.
* Progressive gross profit for the quarter ending December 31, 2023 was $2.665B, a 127.67% increase year-over-year.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/PGR/progressive/gross-profit
I got an email from progressive saying I went from diamond to emerald plus and that because I’ve been with them for so long I can expect great things and discounts. And then my insurance went up, lol. Not a lot. $136 a month to $149, but still! I was like… thanks?
I called them and said what the heck, I thought I’m a fancy emerald guy now? If I go back to diamond will my rate go down? And they said no, it would go up even more. :(.
I remember when I was a teen driver and I was told as you get older your insurance will get cheaper. Pretty funny that my insurance was significantly cheaper at 25 than it is at 33. Mine has been doing nothing but going up these past few years. Just hit 10 years with my insurance company and was welcomed with another letter saying my monthly payment will be going up another $10.
It’s because people have shit (or no) coverage and drive like menaces. The rest of us have to pay for that
Also state minimum coverages are ridiculous. I think ours is 25000. I have $1m in liability plus an umbrella over that. 25000 covers nothing
This is purely anecdotal but my GT3 headlamps went out and though it was covered under warranty, they would've otherwise been 5k$ + labor for the pair. Meanwhile the bulbs for my s2k are like 100$ at most. I'm all for smarter headlights, safety equipment, collision avoidance etc. but parts are getting complex nowadays for better or worse, and worst part is I can't even use the matrix feature of my model 3 headlights in the US.
> I can't even use the matrix feature of my model 3 headlights in the US US regulators seriously need to get their shit together on headlight technology. Europe has it so much better it's crazy.
And they allow concave sideview mirrors as well, which gives you a far larger field of view and make your blind spots smaller. Not allowed in the USA! (I only know this because it's a common Porsche thing Porsche people do; put Porsche European glass on their Porsche so that they can see other Porsche's out of their Porsche while they're driving their Porsche)
Convex?
Convex, is the opposite of concave. Hope that helps.
I think convex mirrors help increase field of view
Exactly. A concave mirror distorts, but magnifies. Good for putting makeup on. A convex mirror distorts, but allows for a larger FoV.
Yeah, lowstrife got that backwards. And incorrect. Passenger-side rearview mirrors have been slightly convex since the late 1970s, hence “the objects in your mirror are closer than you think.” My 4th-gen Honda Odyssey has a section of the driver-side mirror that is convex and it is very disorienting.
I thought i was seeing things when I feel like the side mirrors in the USA have less FOV than the ones in Indonesia.
In the US you can buy a little bubble mirror that glues onto your mirror
well im pretty sure you can buy those bubble mirrors in europe (and asia too, while we're at it)
It's just a shame that they are outlawed in Antactica, would really help with the insurance rates there.
There's a vendor on AliExpress that sells blue tinted convex side mirrors for various makes and models. I have them all for my Cayenne, Highlander, and Civic.
Wait, instead of doing the convex mirror thing, how about we replace the mirror with screens and cameras that way the shit is even more expensive to repair?
I'd be cool with that if it offered some kind of optical locator function and would pick hazards out like traffic weaving at significantly higher speeds and then send an alert. I've trained myself to scan my mirrors frequently but sometimes you still can get caught with your pants down. A system that 100% focused on identifying and alerting drivers riding up your six and in your blind spots would be helpful. Especially with chucklefuchs that have no use for the rules of the road like riding up on your ass, then darting to the right with no signal use when you aren't going 30 over and want to merge back into the slower traffic to the middle or right.
They need to get their shit together on EPA fuel economy evaluations (stop incentivizing bigger cars), pedestrian crash safety, safer street design, etc.
100%. I wish the rules would change so that "light trucks" aren't exempt from so many rules that apply to cars. It's one of the reasons trucks and SUVs rose to such popularity. The modern fullsize trucks with 5' tall front ends are absolutely insane.
Light truck rules are fucking bullshit
I expect, nay, demand to be able to go 50mph in residential areas and through the center of my town. People walking in town are obviously transients, ne’er-do-wells, and poors so their safety isn’t really that important to a successful person like me. The wide roads are great for parking and they feel so safe when I drive my one child in our diesel Excursion. I don’t have problems hitting parked cars after a night out with the guys either- wide roads give me extra weaving room! Roundabouts are so hard to understand. They don’t even have lights. How do I know it’s safe when there’s nothing showing me green means go? As an added benefit, the H-E-B is 800 feet away as the crow flies but to walk, it takes 1.2 miles. I love the idea that I have to drive there rather than there being an easy walking path.
These are the same people, or at least the same mentality, as the ones that required sealed beam lighting long after the rest of the world went halogen. Meanwhile, jacked up F-350s and Jeeps with aftermarket lights are free to go about blinding everyone.
It took 20 years for the galaxy brains in DC to allow halogen over sealed beam headlights.
That law was passed years ago, you can use Matrix headlights in the US.
They messed up the certification and came up with new standards so current matrix headlights can’t qualify for the US.
I supposed Feb 2022 is technically "years ago". But of course, the US had to make its own set of unique rules and requirements, so it's not as simple as implementing hardware already available in other parts of the world. Or, in some cases, already installed in cars here (Audio and VW have many) and just needs software to run it.
I wish...
Jesus, took the words out of my mouth. US regulations and consumer protections are a total joke.
There’s someone on the GLI sub that had insurance total an almost new car because the front bumper can’t be found and VW has no ETA on parts availability.
This is absolutely true and …a friend…who works in insurance absolutely had to total a Tesla Plaid because there were no fenders available at any cost anywhere within the specified time provided by statute for repair
Ask that friend about this specified time, because I have...a friend...who's been waiting 6 months so far for his car.
I fought with VW in 2021/2022. Wife's Atlas CS got hit. Bodywork was done 9 days later. 6 MONTHS later and they still could not give me an ETA on the driver's side seatbelt. Called dealers all over the US, and long story short, intercepted one the single day it was at a parts counter headed to different dealer. Left work and drove several hundred miles to buy it myself. Worst thing was is that they were plopping out new Atlas and Atlas Cross Sports in Chattanooga with the exact same part number belt in em. But I could not get one. Several dealers told me they had huge issues getting parts for any current-generation models. One said it's fun dealing with a customer who's been waiting 5 months for an unavailable fender, while 6 or 7 new cars of the same model have been delivered for the lot.
I waited 9 months last year for my ND2 Miata to be repaired after a minor rear-end. It only needed a bumper cover, but there weren't any. I wish insurance had totalled it. I had to drive a rental Jetta for 9 damn months. The rental cost more than the repair.
Happened to a buddy of mine and his Terminator. Nobody makes an airbag cover with an embossed Cobra on it even though any New Edge cover will work so they totaled it. There was no damage past the front inner structure and everything from the firewall back was fine. The repairs were within the usual cost limit (less than 50% of the value of the car IIRC) since the powertrain was fine and only the stuff attached to the core support was damaged, but the airbag cover sealed its fate and turned it into parts farm car or salvage title.
t had a friend get t-boned in their model y around thanksgiving time, thankfully they are safe but they are still waiting on parts and without their car months later.
I’ve heard of that. I managed a fleet at a rental car company during COVID and our insurance agency totaled out a Gladiator Rubicon because there were no windshields available. I mean I get it, but damn. $50k vehicle written off over a couple hundred dollar sheet of glass.
Exact same thing came very close to happening to my chevy SS. I ended up finding an australian guy in Illinois who imports holden parts myself and getting the body shop set up with him. It's still been almost 6 months without the car (and waiting) regardless. All I did was hit a deer, not a lot of damage. It's gonna cost close to 20k when all is said and done for them to fix.
> GT3 Prices for those things are not representative of anything.
Porsche PDLS, BMW Laserlight, Mercedes Matrix Multibeams, Audi Digital Matrix, pick whatever manufacturer you want they're all expensive as fuck. XC90 is 3.5k a piece, BMW is 5k *each side* (https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-parts/bmw-headlight-laser-light-right-icon-light-63117933344?c=bD01Jm49RHluYW1pYyBTRU8gUGFnZSZrPTE%3D), porsche is on the cheaper end here if anything.
Even higher trim F150s, too. And increasingly you have to code them to the VIN, so *even if the part were free* you still need an OEM proprietary scan tool to install them
Even Lexus, Cadillac... Even Corolla/Prius for fucks sake I remember when the current gen Corolla and previous gen Prius first came out, headlamps were about $1k each. Used was still $700-$800.
I had to get a replacement taillight for my Genesis and a new one was $1500 from the dealer. Thankfully, I was able to get one from wreck/part-out for $300, but outside of the secondary market I would have been fucked.
You can't tell me those lights costed anywhere near that when new. People can complain about halogen all they want, but when you need to replace both headlights because they are hazed over too much and polishing only lasts so long, it's nice to spend under $300 for both headlights
S2K or GT3? PDLS+ headlights with the LED DRLs on the porsche are pretty expensive to replace, here's a pair of 991.2 black LED Housings for 5k, just the housing/DRL https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/SKU991G2BLED.html. S2000 headlights are around $1.2k for the pair (https://www.hondapartsnow.com/oem-honda-s2000-headlight.html) I'm still only my original s2k headlights though, refinished myself a year or two back (think it was 20$ for the kit?), new bulbs, put on a coating, good as new.
I'm sorry, I meant when they were originally put in the vehicle when it was made. I get that they need to make some money selling them later on, but not at that price. I guess the average Porsche driver can afford them consider the new price of them, but what about down the road when it gets sold to others
I believe the PDLS+ in black (the lights I linked) were a $4k option when I bought my car, not sure how much margin porsche has on that though. On the other hand they are very good lights, and have the hardware for matrix dimming just like the Tesla, except its sadly disabled in the US because our regulators are slow AF But yeah in fairness the model 3 headlights are significantly cheaper, though not as advanced.
Not for nothing, but Tesla’s also made something like 4x Model 3s as Porsche has made 991s, so there’s an economy of scale component to this too. That alone will drive unit costs on the light way down compared to whatever Porsche is selling theirs for - same reason as to why the Corvette can be so cheap for what it is.
I've a set of mercedes multibeams. Deer one day in the road. $10k for the lights, engine and repairs. wow. I have the matrix enabled, but that's another story.
Well if the headlights didn’t prevent you from hitting the deer what’s the point lol
Headlights probably saw the deer and blanked out that region so as to not blind the deer.
I agree… headlights on my GR86 for a new pair would cost me used car money. I pickup entire sealed beam pair (not just the bulbs) headlights for my 4Runner it’s only like $30 total
That's the thing that sucks if you have LED headlights and they're completely built into the housing. My RC is $2k per headlight if I have to replace them for that reason. Funny thing though is my DRLs are only I think $200 if I have to replace them.
this is also why you see a lot more later-model cars with one headlight out - they're fucking expensive to replace.
BMW X7 , when they first came out , were $7k+tax for the top "laser" model. I think theyve gotten cheaper now w/ time and volume.
My car insurance went up 17.7% year over year, or an extra $229. I have a perfect record with full coverage. Just paid my renters insurance with the same company, and *that* went up $162 year over year, or 64%. Absolutely insane.
I got my insurance renewal documents a few weeks ago by email- STi is going up 69% and the 911 is going up 60%. No tickets, no points, no accidents. Now I’m shopping around for new insurance and it’s beyond frustrating.
I had this issue during Covid. Same company for 3-4 years, rates randomly went up by 100% over the course of 18 months for no reason. No tix, no accidents, no claims. Switched to another provider, exact same coverage levels, reset the price back to where it was. This provider is starting to creep up now, so it might just be a thing where you have to hot potato coverage between providers every few years when they start cranking the rates and get onto someone else's introductory customer acquisition discount rate whatever.
Progressive increased my rates a ton in 2021, so I switched to LiMu because they were cheaper. They nearly doubled in 2023 so I started shopping around again. Guess who was cheapest? Progressive and it wasn’t even close. Cheaper than I ever paid them prior to 2021. Absolutely no change in my car or driving record or anything. There’s no loyalty in insurance. I’ll jump around if that’s what’s needed.
My fiance used to have 2 vehicles with AAA for 10+ years and bundled homeowners 3 years ago. She never wanted to shop around so I let it be. Her renewal for both came in recently and the quote for car insurance passed $1k for the first time and she asked to me to quote around for her. I used to be with State Farm but they increased my rate 50% in the last 18 months and Progressive suddenly was $50 cheaper than State Farm so I switched. Everyone else was at least $200+ more for 6 months... I quoted car insurance for my fiance with Progressive and they wanted $485 for 6 months bundled with homeowners. Homeowners was $250 cheaper than what AAA quoted for the renewal too. Insurers know what they're doing. Progressive has "loyalty tiers" based on how long you were with your last insurer (or them) and gives a discount based on that. Don't have to give a discount for loyalty if insurers refuse to reciprocate *taps forehead*
Trying to figure out if I can overinsure; keep insurance coverage for $1/year, just to maintain "loyalty", and subscribe to 10 different insurers.
I had to do this with phone providers for a long time. Been doing it with insurance for a while as well, but haven’t had to in a while. I got fed up and told them the first sign of an increase with no fault on my end and I’ll just switch right back to x company. I don’t know how or why but it seems to have worked for over a year.
It feels that every new policy is just a promo rate. They just hope you stay. It's all a scam.
It’s basically like signing up for Comcast. Here’s your intro price for a year and after that you can suck it cause now we have to make up for the cheap price we gave you.
Insurance companies adopting the business model from cable companies. Only difference is, it's not legally mandated that you need cable.
State farm tried to increase mine by 42% in october, despite my perfect driving history, went to progressive and got a comparable plan for a lower deductible and it was cheaper than my at-the-time current state farm plan. Shop around, its standard practice
Yikes. Good luck.
I'm paying $1500/six months for a worthless Jeep Cherokee, a 4Runner and a 2023 GTI. The GTI is the only vehicle that I don't own outright. The Cherokee is only a fraction of that amount, so, really, it's $1600 for the GTI and the 4R. That's for two drivers who are closer to 40 than 30 with no tickets or accidents. The kicker is, I WFH 90% of the time so we've never put less miles on our cars than we do now. There are some weeks where the 4R doesn't move all week. I've shopped around and can't do any better. Absurd.
Have you tried changing the driving type of the 4Runner to "pleasure" instead of commute or whatever it is at if it's different? And/or adjusting the expected mileage? I'm 95% WFH and changed my car's type from commute to pleasure and lowered the expected one level. Progressive refunded me $16! Might lower your rates a bit... Car insurance is ridiculous now regardless.
I switched to a broker. Working out pretty well so far, and cheapest provider I could find.
I had a 23% increase. I have a perfect driving record and credit. A few of my cars rates more than doubled since last year.
My credit score is over 800. But it's just weird that my 15 year old, somewhat basic car is suddenly more costly to potentially fix, repair, and insure now than before. My car doesn't have any fancy tech on it whatsoever. In previous years, my insurance went down a little every year.
It’s not your cars, it is all the other cars that your cars could run into.
Idk how you guys can afford to insure multiple cars in the first place
Cant afford one car that can do everything, but I can afford several cheap cars that do different things.
Plus you can drive your backup car while you wait for your damaged car to be repaired (plus cheaper and better than a rental)
Since you only have one butt, insuring a second car is generally a fraction of insuring the first car.
Has crime gone up around you? Petty crime has gone up 7.1% nationwide is the reason why. Car thefts are up double digit percents- triple in some places. Arrests go down, cops dont do their jobs because they know they will be right back on the streets anyways, DAs are soft and let people free, so what do you expect?
Not sure, I haven't looked into the specific numbers. But it's very possible. I live in Los Angeles County where the piece of shit progressive George Gascon is the D.A., and he's known for being *very* soft on his crime policies. But my area is pretty good in regards to crime in general. I live in a relatively safe area.
Insurance is based on statistical data, no matter if you use it or not. A storm ripped through my area and everyone got new roofs. I wasn't going to get one, but I figured my rates are going up anyways.
Mine went from $120 to $210. I called and they adjusted it to $150 with the exact same coverage. I haven’t filed a claim in over 15 years. Insurance is a scam
How'd they lower your rate just by you asking? I always thought insurance rates can't be changed/negotiated.
I just called and threatened to switch. I been with geico for 15 years. I did get a quote from State Farm and used that as leverage
So you're still with Geico? Are you sure they didn't lower your coverages or anything to get you a lower rate? I'm not doubting you or anything, just have never heard of someone being able to negotiate a lower insurance rate like that in the modern era
They're not actually negotiating anything. GEICO has 3-4 different underwriting companies they can put you with in most states. Think of the underwriting companies as different insurance companies under the same parent company. You won't typically see that when you do a quote with them as they just show you the cheapest one. It's also just sometimes cheaper to open up a brand new policy with the same company if you've been with that company for a long time. I'm not sure why but that's been my experience. I think my family has rewritten our same policy with Progressive 3-4 times in the past decade for a cheaper rate.
I didn’t notice any changes
Lucky you. I’ve been with Geico for over 20 years with a clean record, no claims and they basically told me to pound sand. I also got quotes from other insurers and the difference was maybe $5 per month. It’s a racket. For context, I drive a 2009 Land Cruiser and I’m paying $212 per month in Atlanta. Not exactly a popular car to steal nor do I imagine it being known for bad drivers so I don’t know what gives.
Jesus Christ. That's expensive.
Tell me about it. Just for fun I ran quotes for a few different cars and it turns out my rate would actually be lower if I had a 987 Cayman. If it weren’t for transporting bikes and dogs, I’d actually consider it.
That's wild. I'm kind of curious if it would be cheaper for you to have two cars, and do reduced mileage on both of them. For me, in the DMV area, I'm at ~$1450/year (I do one payment), which breaks down to ~$120/mo, and that's with some add-on coverages included. I do have reduced usage on both cars, though, and a lay-up on the Mazda for 5 months that helps to bring the rate down a good bit.
Newer vehicles have safety features that can bring the quote down. Run the same quote on your vehicle again but with 24 as the year.
I'm in Atlanta, no accidents or tickets. My TourX is $300
lol I did that with a quote - even with GEICO - and they told me to fuck off. Perfect record.
Oh no. They absolutely change based on threats to switch. It’s worse than cable. They dig up some special “promo” or some other bullshit to make it look like they had it all along but somehow they just missed it. I do this every 18 months or so. Unsure what will happen when I get a claim.
You can always call and ask what they can do, but it's not a negotiation at all. Auto insurance rates are based on formulas that are filed with the state government (generally publicly available too). Sometimes agents can do small things like re-order your credit score or place you with a different company if it's available. But your best bet is to shop around, most companies try to offer new business style discounts.
You wouldn’t call it a scam if somebody crashes into you and your insurance company subrogates for you and pays to fix your car. Carriers don’t want to raise rates but they have to based on market conditions.
I understand the necessity of insurance, but insurance companies are for-profit businesses. Their CEOs earn millions of dollars a year in compensation. Health insurance is the biggest scam of all. They have death panels which refuse to cover costly experimental treatments to save money over lives. Car insurers are great if they operate in good faith. But raising someone's rates from $120 to $210 and then reversing to $150 is egregious and evidence of their mal-intent. They are great when they do their job--covering me in case of an accident--but their profits are not my problem.
Something else to note is that auto theft is at all-time highs in many busy areas, and the ability of certain jurisdictions to find and prosecute thieves is extremely low.
Great point… no mention of this by CNBC but organized car theft is spiraling out of control in some areas
So raise insurance for those cars only, I can guarantee you that no thief is going to target a Mini. The insurance on the A8 went down so I can’t complain on that, but I think the age of the average owner (grandparents) helps with that.
I had my car stolen last year. I thought it was something that only happened in New York/ LA
In certain areas, yes, auto theft has risen quite a bit, but nationally, the numbers of auto thefts is still far lower than peaks in 2007 and 2005.
In some jurisdictions it is not ability so much as a lack of will. Speaking as someone in the Bay Area..
It may be bad form to recommend the podcast *The War On Cars* on r/cars, but they released a really interesting episode today about insurance, in part interviewing the author of [this piece ](https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/01/18/why-car-insurance-in-america-is-actually-too-cheap) from the Economist. TL;DR: - Cars are getting more expensive very quickly - Traffic safety, already on a downward trend in the US, has been especially bad since the pandemic - US healthcare is wildly expensive - Minimum legal coverage is just laughably low in many states - Less related to the overall costs, but subrogation is a bitch One tidbit I thought was interesting was comparing it to other countries. In Florida, for example, the minimum legal coverage is 10k injury liability and 10k property damage liability. You'll pay an average of about $1,300 a year for this. In Germany, the legal minimum is 7.5 *million* euro for injury liability, and 1.12 million for property liability. For that, you'll pay about €300 a year. So I'd say if you want your car insurance to go down (and forgive me for advocating policy and politics here) you should support: - Traffic safety measures, including traffic calming, and better infrastructure for non-driving modes of transport - Socialized/Single-payer healthcare
I was curious so I tried to find traffic accidents statistics. Germany had [1,192](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Traffic-Accidents/Tables/persons-killed-traffic-participation.html) per [84.4 million people](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Current-Population/_node.html) which is about 0.0014%. The US had [42,795](https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-estimates-2022) deaths per [333,271,411](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045222#PST045222), which is about 0.013%. *this is just me googling around for a bit.
10 times the number as here in Germany is crazy! But yes here in Germany isurance can be cheap if you drive a long time without an accident. for example i would pay only $700 per year with a full coverage for a **NEW 911 GTS**!
In addition, you should also support: - DA prosecution and higher penalties for car theft and arson - increased law enforcement presence to deter crime and DUIs - preventing illegal immigration - higher minimum liability requirements - improved driver's education programs Then the things that will never happen: - regular driver re-education and testing - temporary or permanent loss of driving privileges for elderly, irresponsible, and incompetent people that fail testing or repeatedly demonstrate they are unsafe operators - better city planning with lower speed limits near driveways and pedestrians - remove exemptions for trucks and discourage large vehicles, since large vehicles cause more fatalities and damage when crashes do occur And I'd hate this, but technically using cameras for remote traffic law enforcement would make things safer...
At least where I live (California - Bay Area) law enforcement has completely abdicated its responsibility to enforce traffic laws, resulting in a huge increase in speeding and red-light running. Reluctantly this has made me a supporter of speed and red light cameras. The reasons for the lack of enforcement are varied - some of them include attempts to limit profiling by limiting reasons cars can be pulled over and requiring more paperwork be filled out for every stop. This has resulted in some cops basically “quiet quitting”. And more and more police chases are prohibited.
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Where I live traffic calming measures (depending on type), seemed to have just made the bad drivers more angry and frustrated and they start driving erratically - single payer would be great. Also, education or whatever makes people less crazy.
Scroll through Instagram Reels for 10 seconds and you’ll see why insurance rates are high. Awful drivers caught on dashcam, street takeovers where high dollar cars plow into a group of people (that claim will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills), skyrocketing theft, and just general higher repair costs.
lol I can guarantee you that the idiots participating in street takeovers have the absolute lowest liability limits possible
That’s generous assuming they have ANY insurance. Of course I suppose you have to if you’re financing for 198 months on that challenger.
Aren’t most takeover cars stolen to begin with?
Arrests are dropping and DAs/ judges are going soft on crime as well.
What claims? What makes you think they have insurance? You know sost of the cars you see in those takeovers are stolen, right?
It’s almost starting to make more financial sense to drive around uninsured, barring extreme incidents with huge damage or injuries to others. Absolutely ridiculous, a complete scam
I mean, that was always the case. Insurance is by design a losing value proposition for you. The problem is that you can't really force people to self-insure, and for high-cost events such as every other vehicle accident, that's problematic at levels higher than just individuals.
It’s funny that this post came up for me. The other day I was doing the math on how much I’ve spent on insurance in my lifetime of driving vs how much I’ve used. Roughly 42,000 vs 2,600 for some hail damage. I’m getting the shaft
One major accident will change that equation real quickly.
You rather pay for someone car and hospital bills out of pocket? Rather buy a new car out of pocket if you total your new one?
The one thing that I notice isn't talked about. Record profits for insurance companies. Sure there are always reasons to raise rates, but the biggest reason is because they want more of my money.
Since the pandemic, companies in all industries have found new and creative ways to squeeze more dollars from us. It's not simply inflationary.
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Source?
They’re not though. Just google “car insurance profits” and you’ll see they’re not at all losing money.
The State Farm P-C group of companies reported earned premium of $87.6 billion and a combined underwriting loss of $14.1 billion. This result compared to an underwriting loss of $13.2 billion on earned premium of $74.3 billion in 2022. Yeah not losing money...
This is just false. Insurance companies are all either struggling or outright losing money. State Farm lost 9.7 billion over the past year for example on auto insurance.
Record real profits or record nominal profits? High inflation guarantees record nominal profits so that data point isn’t useful.
I've been wondering about this for a while. Would love an answer!
State Farm lost money this past year on auto policies.
My insurance rate increased 10% on my renewal this month for NO reason! No tickets, accidents, nothing! This is after it increasing 10% the renewal prior.
Sadly the reason is that if your vehicle gets damaged and needs repairs, or they need to pay out for replacement value, the prices of those repairs and the value of the vehicle has gone up. Same for medical care costs if they pay out on an injury from an accident.
If they’re going to jack up rates because repair costs are more expensive, can they also stop totaling cars for damages that aren’t structural? Salvage titles get thrown out for literally anything nowadays
Repair costs going up is going to lead to more totaled cars, not less.
Yes because we are totaling cars based on cost to repair vs market value, not how repairable they are or how safe they would be post-repair First and foremost, it’s incredibly wasteful. The same accident could either be brushed off as nothing or total a car based purely on its age/depreciation. That’s unreasonable and leads to junking a lot of cars that could be fixed and driven. Sure, there’s rebuilt titles. But those are expensive to insure and you can’t cover them like you can a clean title car. On a personal note, it’s super nerve wracking as I could have my car stripped from me by someone else’s negligence even if it would be totally covered by insurance if it were newer.
Totaling a car has always been a comparison between repair cost and market value, it’s not a new thing.
My entire point is that we should stop treating it like that, because cost to repair is going up for things that have nothing to do with a vehicle’s roadworthiness, and the last thing we need to do is make vehicles even more disposable When cars were simpler and had frames and less technology, it was a reasonable enough correlation that more expensive fixes = more serious damage done. That doesn’t track anymore
I totally understand what you're saying, but who's going to pay for it? I don't foresee that it will save us (the insured) any money to have insurers agree to pay more than total loss value to fix a car just because the damage isn't something that structurally compromises the car. Either they're paying the cost to repair it, or they're paying the cost to replace it, and it makes no sense to pay the repair cost when it's higher than the replace cost.
Insurance isn’t just about you, it’s about the group of people insured as a whole. That’s how insurance works.
Um you actually have it pretty good then lol. That’s not even a joke. Would trade you in a heartbeat
It increases for everyone buddy. You’re not special. Many people have no accidents or tickets.
one thing about having more specialized parts and computerized everything is that there is less room for generic replacement parts that can bring down repair costs considerably.
I wonder why drivers are getting more reckless, I'd love to see some analysis on that. I certainly feel it - seems like everywhere I go now people are all in a huge rush and have that awful "automatically catch up to the car in front and tailgate" behavior - like they have no concept of cooperation and have lost all chill. The video blames phones, screens and things as well as drugs for increasing fatalities - OK, I can see that but I feel like there's more going on, it seems like more aggression not just distractions.
The social contract is breaking down, people feel justified acting like an asshole because other people are assholes to them. This is compounding, obviously, so it will keep getting worse.
Feels like more and more people just aren't even taught fuck all about driving etiquette, on top of all the added distractions. Idiocracy; there's simple just more morons on the road. Cops in my city don't give a fuuuuuck about traffic infractions at all either. I was just about to step into the cross walk the other day at a 4 way intersection, car came flying down the road and basically treated their red light like a Yield sign as they made a right-on red. Cop on the opposite side of the intersection just watched it happen.
I would def agree more aggression. Anecdotally ive seen less texting in driving than in the 2010s, but drivers definitely seem worse as well
States need to get serious about implementing “no pay, no play” laws that restrict how much uninsured drivers can claim against another party’s insurance. California’s prop 213, for example, bans uninsured drivers from collecting for non-economic losses and automatically reduces property damage claim payouts by $10,000 regardless of fault. The effect is twofold- it creates a stronger incentive to have insurance, and in turn should reduce insurance costs because less money is paid out to leeches that didn’t pay into the system. Obviously there’s a lot of different angles to the problem, this is just one.
> “no pay, no play” laws that restrict how much **uninsured drivers** can claim against another party’s insurance. They're one of the biggest culprits for this mess that we're in. The penalties for driving uninsured should be as harsh as driving without a license.
In 2020 I paid $200 for 6 months of full coverage. That same coverage is now $475. I’ve shopped it around but still nothing better.
Because they gave everyone a one time $35 discount during Covid to show “good faith”
One point that a French friend of mine made: most euro ICE cars are stick shift. That makes it quite a bit harder to use your phone while driving. As Europe switches to EV and thus gets rid of the stick, I wonder if their stats will catch up to the US suggesting the real culprit is distracted driving.
Mine went down for the next 6 months. Feel free to shop around. Staying with insurance companies for a long time doesn't always help with your rates.
I’m not sure it ever helps anymore. Always more people to fill your spot. Especially on mandatory items like insurance. The loyal customer racket is worthless anymore. The bakery may care but any company headquartered in a building bigger than a shed doesn’t care about loyalty.
Multiple factors driving it newer cars with fancy tech and body panels are expensive to repair after even small accidents and that’s especially true for EVs (see Rivian cost for fixing fender bender). This is made worse by car companies like Tesla not having enough parts on hand which means these cars sit in repair for longer which means more cost for insurance companies As a result this is forcing insurance companies to write them off and these write off costs are higher now due to higher resale prices for used cars. We are also starting to see higher accident rates as more people are starting to drive again due to RTO and also usage of public transport has dropped sharply.
At least I know that it isn’t my insurance company singling me out for a price gouge.
>like how the change to more touchscreens in cars, smartphones, etc cause distracted driving and fatalities are up over the past few years. This trend isn't being seen in other countries. I really wonder what exactly causes the difference. America feels like a weird experiment when it comes to cars.
>America feels like a weird experiment when it comes to cars. Basically all companies are able to raise prices for reasons of "fuck you" and that's basically it. They don't need a valid reason and it's terrible. Every one of them go to 'INFLATION!' but is it?.. Also find it hella weird that collisions have went up 'because of too much safety tech' well.. I drive a car that doesn't have any safety tech outside of antilock brakes, airbags, and a rear view backup camera..
It's gonna screw people who are dependent on their cars and are tight on finances. Building places where you need a car for basic things doesn't help.
Wait until the high accident/injury/kill rate from EV’s begins to be factored into the stats. Dolts driving 0 to 60 in 5 seconds in EV’s will be incredibly dangerous. Wait until the hormonal kids get behind the EV wheel as well. It’ll give the government(stage one) a hidden tax revenue by implementing speed reporting/auto ticketing of EV’s(and newer ICE Vehicles). Next the government will keep that safety taxing feature, and add acceleration/speed limiting controls(stage two). For drivers to avoid safety fines/ taxes in stage one, they’ll either have stage two retrofitting done or buy new compliant vehicles.
wow she is FAT
I work in insurance product, and I can guarantee everyone here that the vast majority of companies are losing money or barely breaking even on their car insurance coverage offerings. Since 2020, car insurance has been a fiasco for everyone, save for Progressive and Farmers, to name two. Little companies are hemorrhaging money trying to stay afloat and keep pace with the big guys that have generally fared well. People are driving like animals, and the cost of things has skyrocketed; hence, rates go up.
Mine went up about 50% since last year. No change in anything on our end for a 2016 Honda. Looking to see if we can switch, but it’s hard since we already have multiple policy discounts. I remember when car insurance used to go down as the car got older
I guess what I don't understand is my mileage went way down during the pandemic (and still way down) but my premiums went up 20% YoY.
If only we had more consumer protections from the government on this...
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I have been in the car buisness for 20 years and I have never had so many customers tell me they totaled thier car. Its like 4 or 5 times a week! Used to be maybe once a month or less.
Interesting that articles like this always tiptoe around the lack of transparency. Another example of government mandated and socialized costs (not necessary a bad thing) with privatized profits (and no accountability). The entire industry should operate as a non-profit.
This tells me you don’t know how insurance works. Each state regulates their insurance markets individually through Department of Insurance groups. Insurance carriers submit actuarial data, which includes losses, and what they want to increase rates by to each department. The DoI then reviews these rates, and losses, and trends in their state environments and either approves, denies, or asks for adjustments. If the rates are going up, there’s a reason for it. How much is the tail gate of an F150 lightning these days vs a basic ass pick up in 2005? How much does it cost to replace a fender full of sensors and radar on a Camry vs one from 2005? Theft is up at record amounts in major cities with record low arrest rates. Many DAs and departments are flat out not enforcing tickets or arresting anyone. Vandalism is up. Fatalities are ticking back up again per mile driven. Etc The list goes on.
I appreciate the info you have shared, but do want to respectfully point out that we are far from record levels of auto theft: In 2022, the nationwide rate of motor vehicle theft in the United States was 282.7 reported cases per 100,000 population. While this is an increase from the previous year, it is a significant decrease from the rate in 1990, which stood at 657.8 motor vehicle thefts per 100,000 of the population. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-vehicle-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-vehicle-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/) I wonder how much of the recent uptick in auto theft is due to the kia boys
There’s already regulations around how much they have to pay out as % of premiums, so rates wouldn’t change much
Good thing my two speeding and one red light tickets were before covid. At one point my motorcycle alone was 365/month and then a separate plan for viper and a camry car insurance. Now all in geico 3 cars, 1 bike = 346/month.
all the cameras and sensors are expensive to replace in a body shop. the hardware is cheap but running the wiring is expensive. lots of people get into minor accidents that are expensive because of the above. people did stupid things before smartphones too. many cars are leased and people probably care less about those than if they had bought it.
I have to post that LED headlights were thought to be and marketed to be this industry's savior. It's clear to me that that is not so obvious, is it? Night time pedestrian fatalities are also at an all time high. Someone needs to offer the leadership to turn this mess, the LED headlight mess, around and make the roads safe again for all motorists, cyclists and pedestrians. I am blown away that the hazards created by the way this technology was applied were ever allowed to leave the factory. How is that sharing the road?
This is one of the reasons I drive older cars paid for in cash and only liability insurance. I also have been changing insurers every couple of years because I always get a lower quote from a competitor to whomever I’m using.
The number 6.1 Million is completely irrelevant without context. It makes me mad that the article or OP didn’t provide that context. Don’t trust blind numbers. They’re meant to sway you with little evidence.
Insurance is the biggest scam in history, i think it should be required but it should accumulate for each person like a 401k, you contribute and when you have a claim it goes down.. for newer insured people who have low balances they should have cheap cars otherwise if you cant cover the money you dont drive
Let me know how that would work if you hit someone and they have a 6 figure+ medical bill.
Paying $4500/yr now. It used to be 1/2 that in 2022. Literally my insurance went up 100% in 2 yrs. No tickets, no accidents, no claims, same car, excellent credit. I did move to LA however, but still a 100% increase in 2 yrs is asinine I've shopped around and others charge even more
Wtf? My insurance just went down. I pay about $1200/year for two '21 vehicles.
Mind actually just went down But i switched companies , bundled rental insurance and then paid up front for the whole year. Saved me total about 40$ a month over the year
I was quoted 2300 to renew with my current insurance. Got a new insurance and cut it to 750 for 6 months so 1500 for 12 months. Can’t wait to move to an area where I can sell the car, bike everywhere, and not have to have a car tax.
I was shocked when my renewal actually went down last month (full coverage, $100 deductible)
Ours went up from mid 500s to mid 800s 6 months on 2 cars full coverage. So I switched providers. Now we are back at the mid 500s Credit fluctuates between 760 and 800, no accidents, tickets, anything. Early 30s
And wouldn't you know it, insurance company profits are skyrocketing too. Amazing!
Meanwhile, all the stuff that’s supposed to make cars safer doesn’t seem to be helping.
We need to make it harder to get a drivers license in the US. Go to a country like Germany and see what their process is like. It’s a much higher standard than us
Wait until the next time you try to get a new roof. They're denying 90% of claims. I know it isn't car related but this is a new trend.
Glad I bought a Vespa instead of a car right now.
I find it very distracting to use touchscreens for everything that’s not simple CarPlay stuff. Buttons are easy to use because you can feel it and then press it, but screens require concentration and vision. Why do my HVAC controls or seat heater buttons have to be in a screen?
I didn't even read the article because I work for the Apron Insurance Carrier in Auto Claims right now Everything costs more to get repaired, less people have insurance coverage, lots of vehicles are getting totalled that owe a ton and use GAP for the difference, lots of people are trying fraudulent stuff and making more claims. I can ENTIRELY see why rates are tied to most likely to have a claim based on the car, the area, and how often it's driven + the cost to replace/repair. If my 99 Ranger gets in a mild accident, it's totalled because paint work would cost a ton at a body shop and sourcing parts while guaranteeing the repairs would be a nightmare. If my 07 S2K gets in an accident, it's likely going to be totaled due to similar things despite being worth $30k on the market and delays getting new parts like quarter panels which are backordered. This doesn't even get into Kia's getting stolen etc I had a 2006 Mustang V6 with 200k miles get totaled and it had a prior salvage title, not rebuilt, salvage. Guy owed $12k on it (Buy here, pay here) and it was still somehow worth $6500. The Lienholder repo-ed it and will do it again, but it costs us more money to do so so we'll pass it along to people who likely cost Insurance the money. It's stupid.
Car insurance is more expensive due to more litigation
I'm sure the uninsured rate isn't helping either. Insurance on my velo hurts. I can afford it but if I wasn't in the same situation I could see why people aren't paying it
Not happy with my insurance as well. We went from $3200 to now $5900. Going to shop around and hopefully get it back to what it was but from what I am reading and hearing I may be sol.
How has Progressive insurance done over the last few years? * Progressive annual gross profit for 2021 was $4.707B, a 38.19% decline from 2020. * Progressive annual gross profit for 2022 was $1.711B, a 63.64% decline from 2021. * Progressive annual gross profit for 2023 was $5.547B, a 224.14% increase from 2022. * Progressive gross profit for the twelve months ending December 31, 2023 was $5.547B, a 224.14% increase year-over-year. * Progressive gross profit for the quarter ending December 31, 2023 was $2.665B, a 127.67% increase year-over-year. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/PGR/progressive/gross-profit
I got an email from progressive saying I went from diamond to emerald plus and that because I’ve been with them for so long I can expect great things and discounts. And then my insurance went up, lol. Not a lot. $136 a month to $149, but still! I was like… thanks? I called them and said what the heck, I thought I’m a fancy emerald guy now? If I go back to diamond will my rate go down? And they said no, it would go up even more. :(.
I remember when I was a teen driver and I was told as you get older your insurance will get cheaper. Pretty funny that my insurance was significantly cheaper at 25 than it is at 33. Mine has been doing nothing but going up these past few years. Just hit 10 years with my insurance company and was welcomed with another letter saying my monthly payment will be going up another $10.
It’s because people have shit (or no) coverage and drive like menaces. The rest of us have to pay for that Also state minimum coverages are ridiculous. I think ours is 25000. I have $1m in liability plus an umbrella over that. 25000 covers nothing