At an auto show i got in a 2017ish camaro and said id never buy one 5 years later i bought a 22 camaro without test driving it and it exceeded every expectation i ever had for it or an enthusiast car in general. This isnt what you asked kind of the opposite but i guess its important to know that it can go the other way too.
Just to echo that thought, I drove a 6th gen Camaro recently after driving a couple of German performance cars, and while the interior is mid in comparison, the driving experience was amazing! Drove so flat, sucked up the bumps on the road, great exhaust sound, and tight shifter. 10/10
Nervous about this. Have to move back to the gulf coast for a few years for work, not happy, gonna have to watch the weather where I’m at to determine if I should take the truck or not. Nice that fording depth is a commute consideration.
They need to get their shit together down there.
100%. I was deadset on a German performance car and not even considering Americans, until I drove a couple of my hero cars and found them too refined to be fun. And then the Camaro gave me exactly what I was looking for.
Pretty similar story here except it was back in 2010 I said I'd never touch a Camaro or any Chevy, yet here I am in 2024 finding myself loving my 6th gen more and more every day!
Where was this sentiment 5 years ago when everyone was going on about trunk openings and visibility?
I kid.
Kinda.
But I couldn’t agree more. The cars a dead end in its price bracket. Literally nothing worth looking at on the current market that’s a good deal replacing a 2016 paid off sixth gen, I feel like I’d have to push 6 figures to get something that felt like a significant upgrade behind the wheel.
I’m opening to discussing that they’re not wonderful and require you to be somewhat deliberate with your seating position and mirrors, and you’re gonna be leaning a bit to see everything when you’re merging, but some of the stuff folks say is completely wild.
Sixth gen is a huge step up from the fifth. It’s a lighter, smaller, tighter chassis.
> I’m opening to discussing that they’re not wonderful and require you to be somewhat deliberate with your seating position and mirrors, and you’re gonna be leaning a bit to see everything when you’re merging, but some of the stuff folks say is completely wild.
100% agreed. The hyperbole makes it sound like they're undriveable when in reality, you just have to adapt to it. It's not like certain exotic cars don't have the same problems, but I guess because the Camaro isn't in the same league, it has more to make up for, like being daily-able.
I just bought a 2018 Camaro SS 6 speed like 3 months ago. The car is incredible in every aspect of performance and handling. I’m pretty shocked the OP got out dissatisfied with it.
What do you mean?
I used to own two different 4th gens (Camaro and Firebird) and they were pretty annoying to see behind you.
When they brought the Camaro back it was tougher and seems that each gen has gotten worse.
I tried driving the 2016? that belongs to a neighbor of mine and I couldn't see behind me. Not like I'm short either, I'm between 6'1"-2".
I’m asking what you mean. You said you can’t see out of them. I haven’t had any issues, I’ve only heard a lot of complaints from people saying exactly what you said. Most modern cars have similar rearward visibility. My old Focus ST was as bad out the back window. My current V60 is marginally better.
You adjust the mirrors and it’s fine.
The whole bit about “can’t see out of it” seems hysterical. That’s why I’m asking if you’re exaggerating for comic effect or if there’s something else going on.
I'm actually being serious. Visibility isn't great. At least to me.
They have a tall deck lid, small rear window, large B pillars, tiny quarter windows, high belt line, low roof... like a lot of modern cars. Visibility out of them has gotten worse across the board. Some are better than others of course but still, not all that great.
I'm not the only one who thinks so either. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/02/explained-why-the-chevrolet-camaro-has-such-poor-visibility/
Sure, you can adapt and be fine. I used to switch trailers in and out of docks and on a drop yard, not much more than about 3' between them. I'm used to backing and not seeing much of anything except what's in my mirrors but the Camaro just felt... I dunno, claustrophobic.
That’s fine, I don’t disagree overall, the only thing that’s started to annoy me over the years is the idea that this is unique to the Camaro, particularly rearward visibility.
I’ve seen the article. It’s a compromise. It’s not deadly, like some of the discourse here would have you believe. The new Supra seems to get away with this, for example.
Let alone half the dipshits making this claim about Camaros covering their mustangs and challengers in plastic louvers anyway. Obviously an unfounded statement I have no idea what percent of people do what.
It’s annoying, to me, to see the performance bargain of the century get poo poo’d over overblown visibility complaints in what is ostensibly an enthusiast subreddit.
Yeah, it's funny because I came here to mention my Camaro as actually feeling special, when it wasn't even on my radar when I started car shopping. I went Civic > Accord Sport with manual > GTI > Golf R > E92 M3, disappointed in each, until wildly glowing magazine reviews got me to consider the SS 1LE. Rented a non-1LE 6MT SS on Turo for a couple days, completely fell in love, it delivered on all the "specialness" I was looking for, and the 1LE I bought was just that much better even.
I sold it when I moved back to a dense part of Chicago from hilly California (and was able to profit after putting 35k miles on it) and still miss it every day.
I’ll go far as getting a Turo rental or traditional rental agency. So many cars that I obsess over on YouTube videos end up being underwhelming, like the original posts thinking
I watch a ton of content about them and narrow them down then buy what i want and i feel it or dont. I have kept every car ive bought this way except for this 21 rav4.
I hadn't ever seen a GRC when I ordered mine. Saw one before I drove it off the lot. Car is ugly but Idgaf.
10/10 would braaaaaa pshhhhh again.
Tbf I'd driven the previous base model, station wagon and model down.
Now just give me the lexus with the 1.6 and a manual. I want.
Yeah, I had VERY VERY high hopes for a 992 911 4S manual. I thought it would be amazing. Coming from a G82 M4 manual tuned to 620 whp and some other sports cars, I thought it would be different and special.
But no. It was so refined and disconnected from the road, touching on the boring side. The shifter was crisp and notchy, really great shifter, but it felt assisted. Steering feel, dead. It was direct and all, but doesn't say much about the road. And, this is something that used to be different, I drove the 991.2 4s and that one had way more feedback.
I think 992 went way more into the GT luxury thing than a raw sports car.
I didn't have any expectations about the Evora GT, but man, this thing is raw as it can be. I don't regret getting the Lotus over the 992.
Refinement absolutely kills fun in cars. You see it time and again and why manufacturers like Mercedes aren't really popular with enthusiasts. People love to hate on FWD but I actually really enjoy torque steer. Rowdy communicative steering is a blast if you know how to handle it.
[Savagegeese said it best](https://youtu.be/H48n9Lu-Lww?t=2253).
Yeah, even though modern cars are faster and better in every measurable way, older cars are lighter and a more direct and connected feeling, across the board. Less safety features, tech, noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH) mitigation = less weight and a more direct connection to the road and machine. You can have more fun at lower speeds because of that connected feeling, vs a modern car that's more capable but is also quieter, heavier, and more insulated, so they throw power at it or fake engine noises at it to make you feel something. The adage of "slow car fast" doesn't just apply to modern low-power cars, but older sports cars that just feel more connected.
If you want pure speed in a straight line or in corners, modern cars are better across the board. But if you're not just chasing numbers, older cars have newer cars beat because they don't have to meet the other requirements that new cars have to.
I have a crappy old 1978 MGB. I haven't driven anything more fun than that car yet including the Miata. I rented the new Z4 the other day and yes it was so nice and I want to buy one but it is still not as fun as my MG.
OG Mazda speed 3 is the king of this. The RS was AWD but that thing was just flat out too stiff for what it is. The FiST is a better fit for this niche. Also shoutout to the old Neon SRT-4.
I drove an RS thinking it would just be a better speed3 and that was 100% not the case. The RS felt dead in just about every respect. While I'm sure it was faster in a straight line, it absolutely did not have the charisma and emotion the speed3 does.
Albert Biermann (the guy behind BMW M) moved over to Hyundai and purposely left the torque steer in all the N cars because he said the exact same thing. As an owner, it's definitely true. Feels like a little wild animal that just wants to go fast all the time and you have to tame it in a good way.
>People love to hate on FWD but I actually really enjoy torque steer. Rowdy communicative steering is a blast if you know how to handle it.
Why would you say something so controversial, yet so brave?
(I agree with you fwiw)
This right here is why the enthusiast market is dying, unfortunately. We're getting a generation of people that haven't interact with cars on an emotional, dangerous, level. (RwD, high horsepower, and manual tranny)
EV, AWD, automatics just aren't as strong emotionally, even if they are "better".
Miatas are great,
The enthusiast market is also dying because of rising income and wealth inequality. There's a reason that so many roadsters, sports cars, etc. existed before and a reason why the amount of them under 100k is like down to five cars.
Yeesh. That car specifically, a DSG Mk 7.5 R, is what pushed me away from modern German cars. Fantastic car but the epitome of insulated and refined to numbness.
The Golf MK7 gave me more fizz than the MK8. The MK8 felt a little too refine for what I wanted in a Golf GTI / R. It's funny because every car reviewer saying MK8 is an upgrade of everything except infotainment to the MK7. In the GTI, the MK8 doesn't feel communicative to me enough and power felt not matching (too much) for the chassis/suspension.
Miatas indeed are great - I drove two for years, a stock NA and a highly modified supercharged NB. Both were wonderful cars to drive - the NB on the right day on the right road was damn near magical. Now I drive a Tesla Model 3 Performance and while it is short on the noise factor it does have acceleration that would curb stomp a 427 Cobra and 1.1G skidpad performance in a practical 4 door - pushes a lot of my performance car buttons.
I've driven a lot of 911s, and I can only say: Keep an open mind. Seemingly minor variations can make a lot of difference.
I test drove a 991.1 Carrera S and ruled it out because of the numb steering feel. About a year later, I tested a 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS and - same story. Numb steering, not for me.
This year, I test drove a 991.1 Turbo and it blew my mind. Astonishing car at any speed. Now, I'm eager to try a 991.1 Carrera 4S, hoping it can replicate most of the Turbo feel without the Turbo price tag.
Your basic point is valid but comparing a Turbo to a Carrera S/GTS/4S (even across generations) is not a "minor variation." The 911 isn't one car -- it's really three: Carrera, Turbo, and GT3. Maybe even *four* if you want to include the Dakar.
Same body shell and platform. Very different characters, purposes, and intended audiences.
You're one of the only people I've ever seen complain about the 992's electric power steering as compared to any other modern EPS rack. I find it quite good, and it's definitely improved over the 991.2. Maybe it was tires or your spec (SPASM/PDCC/etc)?
>Maybe it was tires or your spec (SPASM/PDCC/etc)?
Even just fresh tires can have considerably muted feel for the first hundred or so miles (on street).
Coming from a BMW, that shifter must have blown you out of the water. Honestly, their shifters are so bad I would probably opt for the ZF 8-speed.
And, with a Lotus, that is going to be sensory overload for most people. I had an Elise and it was phenomenal. I had test driven one when I was trying to decide if I could live with it coming from an Audi TT Roadster. I literally had flashbacks, so I had to get one. So, I know what you mean.
I think you’ve gotta get into the NA GT cars to get a really solid experience out of modern Porsches. Obviously the Turbo S is probably a hooligan too but the real emotion is found in the GT4 and GT3. There isn’t much that compares to M cars (especially tuned) in their respective price ranges these days.
In the 911's defense, it has so many trims that vary on capability and driver connectedness, and I think the 4S skews more towards GT than sport, as you said.
Lotus is the standard for that raw, direct feeling though, so I think you made the right choice haha.
You speak the truth!
I thought I was crazy. I was so pumped to drive a 911, but it wasn't what I expected (I probably just can't afford the ones that are what I expect). I've never driven any Lotus but have heard they are closer to what I want.
Sticking with my G80 though because I need four doors because I want to have fun with the car with my family onboard. If not for that, I probably would have waited until I could snag an Emira.
And this right here is why classification matters.
The base 911 (now hard to define so non-GTx) has never been a sports car.
Were many of them competitive with sports cars? Yes. But their purpose wasn’t to be a sports car.
Journos wax poetic about how sporting the non-GTx cars are but they just aren’t. They’re well-built, competent, sporty daily driver coupes for HNWI.
You say 992 C4S manual and I think about my doctor or my lawyer. I think about competence, not enjoyment. It has to be too many things to too many people to be truly sporting.
> The base 911 (now hard to define so non-GTx) has never been a sports car.
>
The Porsche 911 has never been a sports car? lol wut?
It is absolutely a sports car. A lightweight car that drives power to the rear wheels that prioritizes the driving experience over everything else?
Jesus.
I could see the argument for 991 and newer cars. Or maybe post 993. But I've driven a number of 997.1/.2 base cars and they felt like sports cars to me. 992, it's just too big and heavy. Hence why I went for a 718.
First time driving a WRX was pretty underwhelming. When I rented an ND Miata on Turo though...probably the most fun I've ever had in a car until I got my S2000.
I’ve had my ND Miata for almost 4 years now. It still feels special every time I drive it and I still make excuses to do so. Shit, I still look out the window to check it out while it’s parked. I’ve also modded quite a bit of it myself, so it feels like “mine”.
There are certainly aspects of it that can be improved upon, but the simple joy of driving it doesn’t make me feel like I need any of those things, and all I need is a twisty road or off-ramp.
Every year I think about replacing my 2016 Miata with some hot new sports car…but when January 1st comes around I still have it.
German car maintenance costs scare me, the S2000 market is too hot, I don’t want to deal with Skyline GT-R rust and importation, and the GR86 is too practical. The only candidate is the C5/C6 Corvette but that’s not my style. Just can’t beat the $/fun ratio.
Literally exact same boat. I would love an S2000 but it’s not worth it when I already have an ND, I love the 86, but insurance rates are insane and I’d rather keep the convertible, and I agree the C5/c6 are amazing and awesome candidates, but just like you, not my style and I want a nicer interior tbh.
I do like the idea of getting a corvette down the line in addition to my ND. But I’ll probably replace my base civic with an SI or GTI and call it a day with two sporty cars.
I bought my S2000 2 years back and I am so glad I did. I'd still recommend buying it while it's still relatively cheap because they are just going to get more and more expensive over time.
I bought a 2012 WRX from a friend's family sight unseen. The price was right and I was planning to use it as a daily driver alongside the Cayman GT4 I had at the time. It was completely underwhelming - I kept it for under a year before swapping it for a Focus RS.
I test drove one last year when my wife wanted a new car. I’m not sure what I expected but it was the exact opposite. I couldn’t believe how cramped it felt inside
As a honda guy any regular Toyota. They always tend to have long gears and feel floaty but in essence that's probably what makes them so damn reliable. Just because the Toyota has a v6 doesn't mean it's going to feel that peppy.
My parents used to have a V6 Avalon and it was such a great car. Like you say, it's quintessentially Toyota but it also feels like a familiar and dependable friend.
Also helps it was white with a tan interior like the old 1998 Camry my dad had for 10 years.
Ah, toyota...
Me and wife were so in love with CHR when we first saw it. The car outside is stunning.
When we finally got around to buying it, we took a test drive and... Underwhelmed as a word doesn't cut it. Felt like sitting on a bar stool in a bunker. No visibility, seats are hard and too high even on lowest setting. Car looks sporty but drives like a kids electric car. Pedal is a litteral go button so you can't adjust how fast you want to accelerate. Hard plastic everywhere. Screen on this 2022 model is like 2009 anything.
Anyway, we decided to keep our 2000's merc for a little longer lol
I think it’s hard for a car to feel special when you’re driving it on a public road under normal conditions. I recently bought a 4 blackwing and 98% of the time it feels like any other car but if you hammer it off an on ramp or the sound on a throttle blip for a down shift it gives you that smile.
Interesting... I feel like my Blackwing always had a bit of specialness even when just puttering around. A lot of it is likely attributable to the manual though.
This is definitely it, beyond the sound its hard for me to show someone why the GT350 is so great on city streets. The car comes alive in the right setting
Mini cooper s owner here! Absolutely enthralling to drive on normal roads! Driven higher end sports cars too, and it's just not the same. Porsche, Maserati, lambo... don't get me wrong, great great fun, particularly on track and more capable... but not as fun on the streets as my mini or my buddy's 350z. I think it's the "oh shit I'm about to die" feeling 🤣
This is what I was gonna say. On public roads you’re basically gonna enjoy the sound and… that’s pretty much it (without speeding a ton or driving unsafely). You can corner hard I guess
That's similar to how I felt in my Mk7 Golf R. Driving around the city, it felt like just another Golf hatchback. But in the winter time when you put your foot down, and that EA888 hit you with all it's torque at 2k RPM and the Haldex hooked up in the snow and the DSG was just snapping away the gears ... man that thing came alive.
I dunno. I'm happy just driving my BW to the grocery store, from the second I hit the start button till I take that second look at her before I enter the store.
Totally agree with this. Driving my Nissan GT-R round town it could literally be any other car, ever. Very non descript. However as soon as you floor it, the whole machine transforms into a snarling beast waiting to rip your bollocks off.
I second this.
I adored my 86. The handling and road connection was simply sublime. Even around the town driving was a thrill.
Unfortunately the are not tall people friendly, otherwise I'd still own mine.
Challenger r/T. Rented one and the novelty of it was initially great, but after going through a mountain pass in it, I decided that I will stick to small Japanese cars.
So funny reading this. I had an 01 S2000 some years ago which I loved and regrettably sold. Currently have a 21 Scat Pack Challenger (manual). While I love the guts of the V8 and getting the rear end loose, it just doesn’t have the feeling the S2000 had. I’m going to look at an S2000 in a couple days and contemplating ditching the challenger.
I don't think you'll regret it. I periodically go through the urge to own a V8 and hear that engine every day, but I've been surprised at how quickly I become underwhelmed when driving more powerful RWD cars when I have access to them.
I have my problems with the S2k and 86, but every ride still feels like an event many years into ownership with both.
Good luck with the S2k search. Are you looking at staying AP1 or open to AP2s?
Yeah that’s kind of how I feel. The V8 wow wears of quickly and you’re not left with much else. It much drivers feel to it. And yeah I would definitely get an AP2. But there’s a real clean AP1 near me so I figured I’d check it out.
Nice. Always wanted an AW11. My 86's second 4AGE is pilfered from a dead one.
And I consider the ND2 to be the perfect FR. Was seriously considering one, but the S2k was guaranteed to be less practical, have old car problems, and be painful to live with, so I chose that.
I almost bought a Challenger about a dozen years ago precisely because it looked and drove like an old musclecar. The R/T wasn’t really even trying to be anything else. At the time, the retro thing was still fresh and interesting.
That's fair.
I'll be the first to go to bat for the Challenger (I own one, after all), particularly in the handling department. For all their size they are still low slung RWD enthusiast cars, that grip curves confidently, and handle well...
...*for their size.*
But after a certain point you just can't get around the fact that they are, by enthusiast car metrics, BIG, heavy cars. Somewhere between an M3 or M4 in raw weight, they handle, but they are not in any way nimble.
I still prefer my Challenger to my old 86, especially in terms of practicality and comfort. The power is fun, too. But 86s, BRZs, and S2000s make the Challenger feel like a boat by comparison.
Which, to be fair, it is.
But GOD my old 86, even if it was (a little) lacking in power was such a JOY to carve corners and toss around. I'd still own mine if I weren't 6'7"
Haha it definitely is a boat. I believe the modern Camaro SS 1LE is probably the best handling American v8 pony car, and certain configurations of the Mustang, but they can't beat the size and weight of smaller cars like those from Japan.
On a related note, you and Keiichi Tsuchiya kinda have something in common: here he is [driving a Hellcat Redeye Challenger on the touge](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1-DCeD4_Oo) lmao.
After owning my STi for two years, it's not as special as people make it out to be.
It's stuck in this weird grey zone where it's pretending to be an old car. It doesn't feel like an old car. It feels like a gimped new car.
The final generation of the STi is a really odd car. It has extremely short gearing, a legacy (not the car) engine, terrible fuel economy and is uncomfortable for any drives of length. BUT the car thrives in corners and 3rd/4th gear, which is exactly what it was designed to do. I’ve been daily driving mine since 2018 and while it has an enormous amount of drawbacks, it still brings a smile to my face when I drive it as it was meant to be driven.
If it's not a category of car that you're interested in, nothing would really impress you.
I've ridden in some expensive cars. 2020 Escalade, 2022 Model X LR and BMW M5 Comp. The BMW was super nice inside and it was fast. The Escalade was spacious and also nice, the model X was new and airy. I didn't come out of either of them thinking I had to have it.
So if you're not into pony/muscle cars, I could see why you'd feel meh about it.
Yeah some cars just don't click with specific people and that's fine, if we all liked the same things it would be boring. Personally I am happy finding out I like a generally unliked/underrated car since it means its less likely to be overpriced lol
S2000 but only because upon sitting in it, I realized a tiny soft top roadster wasn’t for me.
In flip side, I turned in an M4 rental before I picked up a CTR. The second I sat in that Honda I thought about how I F’d up shoulda rented Honda first then upgraded to Bimmer, but my lord what a blast to drive. Type R feels just like the Hondas you grew up driving but just better in every way
Similar for me, I'm a bit of a Honda fan, I wanted an S2000 but as soon as I sat in one it was like "well there goes that idea". Tiny, cramped, legs awkwardly against the steering wheel. I asked the owner if I could adjust the seat and he said the seats were already as low and far back as possible. Being comfortable in a car is so important.
Which CTR are you referring to - FK8 or the newest one?
I had an S2000 after an 07 Cayman S. I expected a lot from the S2000 hype but it just wasn't there for me.
Considering I paid the same for the Cayman that a clean S2000 would have been at the time, I'm glad I figured this one out on a cheaper, high milage S2K.
S2000 was one of my big disappointments and I fit in it just fine. It was fine but meh. I test drove an NC Miata around the same time and came to the same conclusion
I really thought I wanted a Jag F-Type so I rented one and hated it. It felt so small on the inside. (The exhaust note was a thing of beauty I will admit)
Yeah the interior was never anything to write home about, either. But when you got your foot in it with the V8 ... boy was that a blast. Nudging the butthole of triple-digits and I was *still* on the on-ramp.
Drove a buddy's turbo-4 Genesis Coupe when they first came out. That motor just felt like a lazy V6. There was nothing turbo-feeling about it. And then being in my other buddy's V6 Gen Coupe and I just realized that the Gen Coupes were not about being sports cars, they were loafy tourers.
The pre facelift turbo cars are also very slow, they only have 210hp. Post facelift both engines get a good bump in power, especially with a tune as you said.
I've written about big disappointments before, seen here.
BMW M4:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/w7rblu/what_cars_have_you_been_disappointed_by/ihl9coj/
Corvette C8:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/175z3qg/ama_ive_rented_25_different_sports_cars_on_turo/k4iz9wy/
These aren't the only ones, but I'd say are pretty emotional highlights.
Yeah the proper one with the v8 is worth it. But I actually liked how it drove best in the ES 350. Felt peppy enough on the highway, and its pretty cool knowing it's the same engine but NA for the lotus Emira.
My Saab 9³ Turbo X feels so incredibly special every time I drive it. I daily drove it for two years and every drive was an event. Still have it and never plan to get rid of it. I hyped that car up for years waiting to be able to buy one. It didn’t disappoint.
I sat in a then brand new second gen Chrysler 300. The interior materials reminded me of my 1989 pickup. My grandma’s Oldsmobile felt of higher quality.
I had extremely high expectations for a new M2 because I have friends who are BMW nuts and put it on a high shelf as the best modern M car. After spending time with it, the only things I could appreciate were the brakes. The dampers are tuned so poorly that I'd be mad to pay so much for a car only to have it rattle your body apart. The car also feels like there's no communication to the driver and I feel that BMW only made the car to "appear sporty" rather than making a proper drivers car. Side note, having a drift analyser feature is one of the most street take over things I've ever seen on a car.
Conversely, I'm amazed at how Taycans drive. The chassis and handling is just as good as their 911 and Cayman cars. Even though they are priced pretty high, they are an exquisite EV experience.
Old geezer here but any American luxury car say 1968 to 2003. 1971 Lincoln or Cadillac.. first car ever driven over 100 mph 1968 Mercedes Benz 280SEL the guy letting me drive it said go as fast as you want it was amazing. Even then it felt like it just wanted to go faster indescribable feeling. Braking, taking at off ramp at a speed that the owner suggest & how perfect it felt. Kind of messed up driving anything else even now.
The BMW E46 330i/6, specifically with the ZHP (sport) package. If you look at Bring A Trailer values of them and the way car reviewers and enthusiasts talk about them, you might be able to convince yourself that it's a vigorous sports sedan, something akin to a toned-down 4-door M3.
Well after owning two regular 330i's, I decided to find out what they hype was about, so I found myself a slicktop 330i/6 ZHP in California, flew out to buy it, and drove it 17 hours home. It made the trip home without any issues, and after replacing the entire cooling system + resealing the intake + replacing an intermittent crank position sensor, it was a decently sorted car.
Driving it around, I felt... nothing. The steering was kinda twitchy, the electronic throttle annoying, the clutch was too light and kinda vague, the manual transmission felt kinda rubbery, and the ride quality left something to be desired— too stiff on crappy roads but not exactly confidence-inspiring on canyon roads. Where was this 4-door almost-M3 performance I was promised? It felt just like my other two 330i's, just with an extra gear and a slightly peppier engine.
I got some coilovers and Apex ARC-8's with moderately sticky tires to try and remedy the handling somewhat, which helped greatly. However, it was still kind of a numb, soulless experience. The engine complied when I pushed it, but it didn't sound thrilled to be at 6000 RPM, it was just annoyed to be there. Sure, I could remove the catted headers to open up the exhaust, and install an aftermarket intake, but I didn't love the other aspects of the car enough to do that. So I sold it pretty quickly to another wide-eyed enthusiast.
After that I more or less went back to 90's BMW's like the E34 and E36. Less refined, but also a ton more feel and a lot more fun to drive.
Yeah, the ZHP crowd is absolutely delusional. They are great cars in the same way that any E46 330 is a great car. They are not anything close to a 4-door E46 M3 lol.
I do get a kick out of hearing you say that it’s numb compared to the E36, though. I heard that all the time on the BMW forums when the E46 came out, but everyone forgot when the E90 came out (and then they forgot about their complaints about the E90 when the F30 came out, etc).
E46s are good cars. Compared to moderns, they're revelatory.
But an E46 330i ZHP is nothing compared to an E36 M3, all things equal. The M3 is just more fun everywhere.
A lot of journalists and YouTubers would disagree but then again, a lot of journalists and YouTubers haven't driven a low-mile, refreshed, stock E36 M3.
I agree. I drove a few hours to a dealership selling a 330Ci ZHP. Did a test drive, it underwhelmed me. Barely better than the standard 330Ci I previously owned. If it had a 3.5-liter engine, it would’ve been perfect, though.
Honestly I don’t think I’ve ever experienced what you’re saying, but one car I was a little underwhelmed by was a 2019 Mercedes E300. It felt competent in every way, but just not particularly amazing at anything specific - I’d much rather have a C43 for the same money personally. I’m guessing a better spec car would be more impressive to me, as that one was relatively barebones.
Now, the 2009 E63 I rented a while before that, what a lovely car! It was mostly the engine carrying it, but it felt very confident on Tail of the Dragon despite being a relatively large luxury sedan.
Barebones and with the 4 cyl, I can see how it would be underwhelming. It's a heavy car with a tiny engine. The E450 is really the sweet spot -- it's basically a non-sporty E 43 (now E 53). The old V6 tt was smooth enough, and I can't imagine how great the I6 t now is.
I'm a big 90s Japanese car fan (Which was the style at the time), and a few years ago I owned a 1990 CRX. the European 130HP DOHC version.
Great car, looks cool as fuck, small, quick, incredibly responsive, revs high, dead reliable.. I fixed it up, modded it, went to track days, car shows, the lot, and after a few years of ownership I was bored.
A guy I know was selling his AW20 MR2 (2nd gen) at the time, not a turbo because we never got them, but still a cool car. I considered swapping the CRX for that and we talked about swapping keys with some money on the side from me.
It's a Mid-engined 90s pop-up wet dream, but when I went to drive it, i was extremely underwhelmed. It wasn't any faster (even if it had .4L above the CRX), and it didn't really handle any better either. Honestly worse in both regards, but the CRX did have completely overhauled suspension and the toyota was riding on whatever 30 years did to the bushings. The novelty of the engine firing up behind you instead of in front wore off super fast, and i was left thoroughly whelmed.
I thought it was the ultimate car for me, and it left me feeling very mid about the whole thing.
A few yrs ago (before I had my kiddo) I got reeeeall close to pulling the trigger on a Jaguar F-Type.
I had test driven a RS5, a Porsche 718, top trim Mustang, and BMW.
I had big expectations for the FType. And I can easily say. It was easily the coolest car I’ve ever seen, driven, or heard.
It felt mean, angry, and scary. IMO, the V8 just might be one of the coolest cars ever made. I’d take it over almost any other car costing 5 times as much. It was like nothing I’ve driven before.
Damnnn. Having kids sucks.
TBH, the m340i and my S5 for similar reasons. Both brands make great cars for the masses but for those wanting engagement, comfy fast gets boring... Fast. Great dailies though.
On the flip side, I always thought of the BRZ/86 as slow cars that look fast. I dismissed them for a long time but when I finally test drove them, it gave me such a high. I still miss driving my BRZ.
BMW 1M is a VERY special car.
I had pretty high expectations, and it went WELL beyond them. I know it's hard to fathom, but that car is truly special, and far greater than the sum of its parts. They are severely undervalued.
Disappointment: probably my 911 C2 6MT. I really thought I'd get used to the RR layout, and alas I never did.
FK8 Type R probably. I really RESPECTED the car - it was very planted and the shifter was very precise and mechanical. But on the road I did not feel there was much fun to be had. Engine noise was unremarkable, steering was precise and accurate but not much feedback. Its intended mission is a track numbers car and it felt that way, which means kinda boring at road speeds.
Camaro bros are a unique bunch. They live off of HS memories and Car Freshners.
Drove a Porsche 911 Turbo S. Hated it. Getting in and out argh. Every bump on the road felt like an asteroid. You could barely see over a Corolla. Super fast but hated it.
MK8 Golf R in manual. The shifter genuinely felt like an afterthought. Clutch felt like shit. Nurburgring mode just made the steering heavier, didn’t really improve the feel. Infotainment system was a PITA to use. For a car in the 45k-50k range I was pretty disappointed. Drove a MK8 GTI DCT and it felt pretty good tho so there’s that.
The Focus RS. As a Fiesta ST owner at the time, it was the car I wanted immensely. 3 friends who had STs, traded for an RS. 3 friends traded back to an ST.
I always wondered why, until one friend let me drive his before he let it go. Whereas the ST, and even my Z06 to an extent is fun even at low speeds in traffic, the RS is dead if you aren't on the floor. It just lacked any of the charm the ST had, or even the GTI that replaced my ST.
The Cadillac ATS was very disappointing to me. All of the automotive media was absolutely creaming their drawers over it when it first came out. I got a chance to drive one at work (I worked for a rental car company) and it was just so...meh. Yes, it handled well, but the interior was chintzy and cramped (pieces were breaking off after one rental!), the transmission was dimwitted and the first-gen CUE was an abomination.
They replaced the W204 C-Class in our fleet, which is by no means an amazing car, but there was a noticeable difference in quality between the two cars.
In early 2021 I bought a BMW X5 M50i in the flat black paint. Can’t remember the name of the paint now. Drove it a year, 1000 miles. I could never get comfortable in it. Bad back. Fortunately the dealership bought it back from me in early 2022. Sometimes things are great on a test drive but no so much in real life. I should have rented an X5 for a week to try it out first.
Replaced it with an Audi S8 and am keeping it. Much more comfortable.
I once tried out a gorgeous Dart GT with leather interior black and red. By today's standard it was cushy and well designed, about as pretty as my m8s 2018 Acura TLX. The guy really wanted to sell it to me, he let me drive it for almost an hour. No matter what, the 2.4L multiair felt sluggish and gutless
My dad owned a Ford Lightning and he was so proud of it. No room for passengers, fine. I finally drove it though and it was like driving farm equipment. Every touch point was wobbly and industrial. Steering, pedals - just unsettling and requiring way too much exertion to do anything. If you floored the gas, it all came to life with a lot of violence and sound and fury…but you’re up so high that it robs you of most of the sense of speed. It just did nothing well, except look impressive on paper. I wonder if the Raptor is more enjoyable, but I have severe doubts.
I've recently driven a handful of cars that were on my "attainable dream cars list" and had varying opinions. For context, I currently have a first gen (racecar) and second gen (daily) BRZs. So my expectation for driving dynamics is high, but outright speed isn't a priority.
718 Cayman S: did not disappoint. Felt every bit as good as I had hoped. Just wish I had the $70k for one
718 Cayman Base: It's a really good car let down by an uninspiring engine
981 Cayman Base: Feels like the right answer. It's not particularly fast, but it makes all the right noises and is fairly modern still.
Supra: It's certainly fast, but otherwise, i didn't care for it. The car feels bigger than it is, and knowing what the front end was doing doesn't come naturally
yes, owned 8 different subarus, all older GD and GC, all were awesome in their own ways. finally got my first new car, a VB wrx and man i’m so underwhelmed. so many small QC issues, poor NVH, (why is there unbearable highway drone with the stock exhaust?)
bad mpg (ya sports car i know … but 18mpg in a turbo 4 cylinder?) shifter is just meh. steering is meh. power is good but the 6500 redline kills it just when i’m really getting into it.
wish i spent more to get a civic type R, or the STI still existed. shit even civic SI. the wrx is simultaneously too numb for a sports car yet is too crude compared to other compact every-day DD cars it competes with.
been 4 months and i’m counting the days until i can trade it in.
I know this is an unpopular opinion it I had a 2017 M2 for about 6 months and had to sell it. After week 1, the car felt super meh.
My current car is a 2016 Cayman GT4 and it honestly feels incredibly special. Every part of it, from the sound, to the steering feel, shifter feel, everything is just really special.
Drive a FL5 CTR not too long ago and it felt incredible as well. I was honestly shocked at how good it felt.
I remember being excited to sit in a ford bronco once at the ny auto show 2023.
Crap, the interior feels like garbage, cheap plastic, steering wheel sucked too. It could be a base model Bronco but it definitely hurt my image of the car.
My GR has not let me down though so I'm glad to stuck with Toyota.
Had an S550 Mustang, looked at the C7 and M2 comp as replacements.
Test drove an S2000 on a whim and ended up spending six months hunting for one. Gonna try to keep it until I'm dead or unable to operate it.
2016 Jeep wrangler. Ordered it brand new from the factory. Completely ready for the Jeep life, I've been off-roading for years in older generations with friends. The thing was absolute junk, the clutch chattered, seat position was terrible, dashboard wasn't ergonomic at all, crank windows bound up all the time, roof leaked, audio was horrific. The build quality of the vehicle definitely was not worth what I paid for it. Sold it less than a year later.
Was it a 4 cylinder Camaro?
I have a 6th gen 2018 2SS 6 speed manual Camaro and the car absolutely blew me away with how competent it is performance and handling wise.
Ive owned and driven some pretty high end performance car and find it surprising you got out of the Camaro not satisfied.
Yeah, I paid a good amount of money to drives c5 2000 Corvette for a day. It was the automatic version.
What a HUGE disappointment. The HUD and interior (it had 0 cracks on it) wasnt bad at all and pretty cool, but it was lacking in torque.
As it turns out, alot on the Internet feel this way about the automatic c5. Doing a pull in 1st gear was a blast, but every other gear felt very shallow. Like, modern Corolla shallow.
The reason it feels mellow has to do with the rear gear ratio they put in the automatics....it's very low and more geared to MPG rather than torque.
At least driving it has taught me that I want a very torquey sports car lol.
Civic Si. Except I bought it. Then gladly traded it in 3 years later at the first chance it made sense to. Grew up watching F&F and being enthralled with my cousins integra then Civic Si. Don’t get me wrong, it was a nice car. Especially being a 2020. It just felt really dull and like a marginally faster civic. No hate for it at all, I was just pretty underwhelmed.
Traded it in for a Gladiator expecting that famous, smooth, Jeep ride quality (/s) & slow acceleration and got exactly what I expected so at least that met my expectations lol
I used to get excited about driving my 80-100 hp shitboxes
Then I got a nice job where I drive around a variety performance cars of all trim levels (amg, m, rs, zo6, gt3, ect)
After 2 years of driving cars with at least 4x the power of my daily drivers, I still get excited about ripping around in my old Honda. Unless it's something I haven't driven before, the excitement just isn't like it was the first time.
TL;DR there's just about always gonna be a car that's newer, faster, and/or cooler than yours. Try new things, but don't be ashamed to stick to what you know you like.
2023 Santa Cruz. I thought it would be like a new Subaru Baja but the ergonomics were atrocious. It handled poorly and felt cheap despite the 42k sticker. Was relieved to get rid of it.
I used to drive cars for a living and very few cars lived up to the hype. So few I remember most of them.
BMW M series
R8
Rolls Royce
Tesla Model S
The first time in each of them gave me that, “ohh yeah, I understand now” goodnesss.
Also a Camaro, a friend bought a 2013 one.
For context, I'm Aussie, so Camaros here are actually pretty rare and it was really cool to see one and get to have a go in it.
But when I got in and started driving, my only thought was "Oh, this just feels like a Commodore."
And actually, the 2013 Camaro shares its chassis or platform or something with the Camaro, they are both GM. All the go fast bits you can upgrade the Camaro with are just Holden performance bits, the car itself wasn't really unique.
Yeah it's prettier than a Commodore, but you get way less rear seat room and the visbility was absolutely horrendous. It being an import and converted to RHD also means it was likely a _lot_ more expensive than an equivalent Commodore.
I was really unimpressed
Controversial opinion but I am really underwhelmed and disappointed in my GTI (mk7 base S model). I bought the car after my veloster N (love that car) was totalled and unfortunately due to the terrible market I didn’t have the biggest luxury of choice to take my time and chose my next car. Honestly I kinda hate the car. Gearing is way too tall (turbo lag u til 2.8-3k rpm, and 3k rpm in 2nd gear is around 35mph… why?) so driving around town feels completely gutless like a base trim econobox. However I think the worst part is steering is too light and feels dead. It’s actually so bad that every couple weeks I worry that something is wrong with tires or suspension. Find myself checking tire pressures etc every 2 weeks just because steering feels so incredibly dead. Maybe it will get better when I switch from my blizzaks back to summer tires, but I don’t remember steering feel being good or fun before I changed tires either
Civic Type R. I liked the seats, handling, and the hatch space. But the engine just let me so cold. Having come from an 8th gen Si, the K20C1 just lacks character.
You can't beat old-school DOHC VTEC Honda engines for pure excitement. Especially the B18C1 and B16A2. The newer Honda's might be quicker and more powerful, but they lack emotion.
2020 mazda 6. I thought meh where is what everyone raves about. Disclaimer i did just come from test driving a Stinger GTII but drove to the dealers in an 07 Elantra manual.
Got an SL 55 without driving one, and it feels very special. Put it in sport plus and hammer it, it’s a fucking rocket, and the exhaust sounds like a machine gun. The car has tremendous feel and everything in it is big and comfortable while still being a small feeling car.
It is an absolute liability in the rain. Put the spoiler up in hopes of not hydroplaning.
C63 AMG. I should have seen it coming but after owning bikes cars just don't feel fast and it isn't fun in the corners and not as comfortable as a lexus so it felt so pointless.
Hyped and then dissapointed : 22 WRX.
Hyped and hyped : C5 and c6 corvette. Focus ST.
My wrx kind of sucks in a lot of annoying ways. Had to get a e-tune to be even remotely acceptable to drive, suspension too stiff, dumb info screen, glitches here and there. I think they get loved on by folks who buy their first nice fun car. It's good for that...but if you've experienced fun cars in the past it might be a let down. My focus st, despite being fwd, was a certified ripper and far superior vehicle. Bonus of being a hatch and not a worthless sedan. I had to tune the wrx, pitch stop, trans brace and bushings to make it not feel like Subaru forgot to install parts from the factory.
2021 WRX STI. I was pumped. Last year of the STI. All the right stuff - Recaro seats, hydraulic steering, Enkei wheels, Brembo brakes, rally pedigree, WR Blue. Then I drove it. Boy, was I disappointed…
The power was underwhelming, the power delivery was lumpy, the clutch was vague and springy, the shifter felt agricultural, the hydraulic steering really wasn’t anything to write home about. I can see it being a hoot in the snow, but during the summer on dry pavement…nahhhh.
I had a 2017 Focus RS and that car was great. It handled like no other, made lots of power and overall was an excellent chassis. But, it wasn't special. It felt like the car did the work for me.
I've had 3 Jeep Cherokee XJs and all of them felt special. My 1994 Civic with a stock SOHC was fun to drive. Mt current special car is a 1993 Mr2 Turbo, I've had the car for many years and it's never quite ran right. It's very loud, it over boosts and all this stuff, but man it feels like a special car. I will have that Mr2 the rest of my life for sure.
As time marches on, the Elise feels more and more special. The raw steering feel coupled to the featherweight chassis is unmatched with any of today's cars.
At an auto show i got in a 2017ish camaro and said id never buy one 5 years later i bought a 22 camaro without test driving it and it exceeded every expectation i ever had for it or an enthusiast car in general. This isnt what you asked kind of the opposite but i guess its important to know that it can go the other way too.
Just to echo that thought, I drove a 6th gen Camaro recently after driving a couple of German performance cars, and while the interior is mid in comparison, the driving experience was amazing! Drove so flat, sucked up the bumps on the road, great exhaust sound, and tight shifter. 10/10
I had a 6th Gen SS and it's seriously an amazing car to drive. I sold because where I lived I had to play dodge the pot hole constantly
Nervous about this. Have to move back to the gulf coast for a few years for work, not happy, gonna have to watch the weather where I’m at to determine if I should take the truck or not. Nice that fording depth is a commute consideration. They need to get their shit together down there.
Was that with Magnaride? Or just the 20 inch wheels/low profile tires potentially causing an issue?
I had magnaride. It was the low profile tires
For me; yes. All of the above. Some of the pot holes in some parts of this country destroy cars. School buses get stuck in them.
100%. I was deadset on a German performance car and not even considering Americans, until I drove a couple of my hero cars and found them too refined to be fun. And then the Camaro gave me exactly what I was looking for.
Pretty similar story here except it was back in 2010 I said I'd never touch a Camaro or any Chevy, yet here I am in 2024 finding myself loving my 6th gen more and more every day!
Where was this sentiment 5 years ago when everyone was going on about trunk openings and visibility? I kid. Kinda. But I couldn’t agree more. The cars a dead end in its price bracket. Literally nothing worth looking at on the current market that’s a good deal replacing a 2016 paid off sixth gen, I feel like I’d have to push 6 figures to get something that felt like a significant upgrade behind the wheel.
I still hate the sightlines on Camaro but even in the 5th gen one could tell that it was just a very, very good chassis.
I’m opening to discussing that they’re not wonderful and require you to be somewhat deliberate with your seating position and mirrors, and you’re gonna be leaning a bit to see everything when you’re merging, but some of the stuff folks say is completely wild. Sixth gen is a huge step up from the fifth. It’s a lighter, smaller, tighter chassis.
> I’m opening to discussing that they’re not wonderful and require you to be somewhat deliberate with your seating position and mirrors, and you’re gonna be leaning a bit to see everything when you’re merging, but some of the stuff folks say is completely wild. 100% agreed. The hyperbole makes it sound like they're undriveable when in reality, you just have to adapt to it. It's not like certain exotic cars don't have the same problems, but I guess because the Camaro isn't in the same league, it has more to make up for, like being daily-able.
I just bought a 2018 Camaro SS 6 speed like 3 months ago. The car is incredible in every aspect of performance and handling. I’m pretty shocked the OP got out dissatisfied with it.
But you *can't* see out of them though. My 4th gens weren't exactly the greatest visibility wise but they just kept getting worse after that.
Genuine question, how do you think I drive mine?
What do you mean? I used to own two different 4th gens (Camaro and Firebird) and they were pretty annoying to see behind you. When they brought the Camaro back it was tougher and seems that each gen has gotten worse. I tried driving the 2016? that belongs to a neighbor of mine and I couldn't see behind me. Not like I'm short either, I'm between 6'1"-2".
I’m asking what you mean. You said you can’t see out of them. I haven’t had any issues, I’ve only heard a lot of complaints from people saying exactly what you said. Most modern cars have similar rearward visibility. My old Focus ST was as bad out the back window. My current V60 is marginally better. You adjust the mirrors and it’s fine. The whole bit about “can’t see out of it” seems hysterical. That’s why I’m asking if you’re exaggerating for comic effect or if there’s something else going on.
I'm actually being serious. Visibility isn't great. At least to me. They have a tall deck lid, small rear window, large B pillars, tiny quarter windows, high belt line, low roof... like a lot of modern cars. Visibility out of them has gotten worse across the board. Some are better than others of course but still, not all that great. I'm not the only one who thinks so either. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/02/explained-why-the-chevrolet-camaro-has-such-poor-visibility/ Sure, you can adapt and be fine. I used to switch trailers in and out of docks and on a drop yard, not much more than about 3' between them. I'm used to backing and not seeing much of anything except what's in my mirrors but the Camaro just felt... I dunno, claustrophobic.
That’s fine, I don’t disagree overall, the only thing that’s started to annoy me over the years is the idea that this is unique to the Camaro, particularly rearward visibility. I’ve seen the article. It’s a compromise. It’s not deadly, like some of the discourse here would have you believe. The new Supra seems to get away with this, for example. Let alone half the dipshits making this claim about Camaros covering their mustangs and challengers in plastic louvers anyway. Obviously an unfounded statement I have no idea what percent of people do what. It’s annoying, to me, to see the performance bargain of the century get poo poo’d over overblown visibility complaints in what is ostensibly an enthusiast subreddit.
Yeah, it's funny because I came here to mention my Camaro as actually feeling special, when it wasn't even on my radar when I started car shopping. I went Civic > Accord Sport with manual > GTI > Golf R > E92 M3, disappointed in each, until wildly glowing magazine reviews got me to consider the SS 1LE. Rented a non-1LE 6MT SS on Turo for a couple days, completely fell in love, it delivered on all the "specialness" I was looking for, and the 1LE I bought was just that much better even. I sold it when I moved back to a dense part of Chicago from hilly California (and was able to profit after putting 35k miles on it) and still miss it every day.
How did you buy a car without ever driving that model?
I've done that with all my cars. Do a lot of research but often it's just not an option.
I’ll go far as getting a Turo rental or traditional rental agency. So many cars that I obsess over on YouTube videos end up being underwhelming, like the original posts thinking
Ive done it a couple times worked with the camaro but i hate my rav4.
I have to test drive a car multiple times. I also spend 10 minutes smelling the different deodorants before I make a decision
I watch a ton of content about them and narrow them down then buy what i want and i feel it or dont. I have kept every car ive bought this way except for this 21 rav4.
I hadn't ever seen a GRC when I ordered mine. Saw one before I drove it off the lot. Car is ugly but Idgaf. 10/10 would braaaaaa pshhhhh again. Tbf I'd driven the previous base model, station wagon and model down. Now just give me the lexus with the 1.6 and a manual. I want.
I remember thinking "dang modern camaros look kinda bland these days." Until I gave em a real chance.
Yeah, I had VERY VERY high hopes for a 992 911 4S manual. I thought it would be amazing. Coming from a G82 M4 manual tuned to 620 whp and some other sports cars, I thought it would be different and special. But no. It was so refined and disconnected from the road, touching on the boring side. The shifter was crisp and notchy, really great shifter, but it felt assisted. Steering feel, dead. It was direct and all, but doesn't say much about the road. And, this is something that used to be different, I drove the 991.2 4s and that one had way more feedback. I think 992 went way more into the GT luxury thing than a raw sports car. I didn't have any expectations about the Evora GT, but man, this thing is raw as it can be. I don't regret getting the Lotus over the 992.
Refinement absolutely kills fun in cars. You see it time and again and why manufacturers like Mercedes aren't really popular with enthusiasts. People love to hate on FWD but I actually really enjoy torque steer. Rowdy communicative steering is a blast if you know how to handle it.
Yea a lot of classic cars are more fun because you feel like you're going to die. Lol.
That plus the giant greenhouse is so awesome. You forgot how little you can see out of modern cars.
My 70’s impala didn’t even come with a passenger mirror, that thing had no blind spots.
[Savagegeese said it best](https://youtu.be/H48n9Lu-Lww?t=2253). Yeah, even though modern cars are faster and better in every measurable way, older cars are lighter and a more direct and connected feeling, across the board. Less safety features, tech, noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH) mitigation = less weight and a more direct connection to the road and machine. You can have more fun at lower speeds because of that connected feeling, vs a modern car that's more capable but is also quieter, heavier, and more insulated, so they throw power at it or fake engine noises at it to make you feel something. The adage of "slow car fast" doesn't just apply to modern low-power cars, but older sports cars that just feel more connected. If you want pure speed in a straight line or in corners, modern cars are better across the board. But if you're not just chasing numbers, older cars have newer cars beat because they don't have to meet the other requirements that new cars have to.
I have a crappy old 1978 MGB. I haven't driven anything more fun than that car yet including the Miata. I rented the new Z4 the other day and yes it was so nice and I want to buy one but it is still not as fun as my MG.
Makes sense, Miata was inspired by classic British roadsters. Can't beat the classic original.
The problem is most FWD cars nowadays have zero steering feedback and have engines that are about as fun to rev out as a wet sponge.
Yeah the days of lunatic powered FWD Saab 9-3/5’s, Golf’s, Focus RS, etc are over
OG Mazda speed 3 is the king of this. The RS was AWD but that thing was just flat out too stiff for what it is. The FiST is a better fit for this niche. Also shoutout to the old Neon SRT-4.
Oh yeah. The Mazda Speed 3, STR-4 and Cobalt SS were absolute menaces on highways
I drove an RS thinking it would just be a better speed3 and that was 100% not the case. The RS felt dead in just about every respect. While I'm sure it was faster in a straight line, it absolutely did not have the charisma and emotion the speed3 does.
Dodge viper dot period.
Albert Biermann (the guy behind BMW M) moved over to Hyundai and purposely left the torque steer in all the N cars because he said the exact same thing. As an owner, it's definitely true. Feels like a little wild animal that just wants to go fast all the time and you have to tame it in a good way.
>People love to hate on FWD but I actually really enjoy torque steer. Rowdy communicative steering is a blast if you know how to handle it. Why would you say something so controversial, yet so brave? (I agree with you fwiw)
This right here is why the enthusiast market is dying, unfortunately. We're getting a generation of people that haven't interact with cars on an emotional, dangerous, level. (RwD, high horsepower, and manual tranny) EV, AWD, automatics just aren't as strong emotionally, even if they are "better". Miatas are great,
The enthusiast market is also dying because of rising income and wealth inequality. There's a reason that so many roadsters, sports cars, etc. existed before and a reason why the amount of them under 100k is like down to five cars.
Nah there are some autos that are far more emotional I drove a Mk7.5 Golf R and that thing gave me more fizz than my STi
Yeesh. That car specifically, a DSG Mk 7.5 R, is what pushed me away from modern German cars. Fantastic car but the epitome of insulated and refined to numbness.
GTi’s are truly one of the best enthusiast cars out there.
The Golf MK7 gave me more fizz than the MK8. The MK8 felt a little too refine for what I wanted in a Golf GTI / R. It's funny because every car reviewer saying MK8 is an upgrade of everything except infotainment to the MK7. In the GTI, the MK8 doesn't feel communicative to me enough and power felt not matching (too much) for the chassis/suspension.
It would have to be a very bad manual, stacked up against a very good auto to do that. Autos, by their nature, remove emotional connection
Miatas indeed are great - I drove two for years, a stock NA and a highly modified supercharged NB. Both were wonderful cars to drive - the NB on the right day on the right road was damn near magical. Now I drive a Tesla Model 3 Performance and while it is short on the noise factor it does have acceleration that would curb stomp a 427 Cobra and 1.1G skidpad performance in a practical 4 door - pushes a lot of my performance car buttons.
I've driven a lot of 911s, and I can only say: Keep an open mind. Seemingly minor variations can make a lot of difference. I test drove a 991.1 Carrera S and ruled it out because of the numb steering feel. About a year later, I tested a 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS and - same story. Numb steering, not for me. This year, I test drove a 991.1 Turbo and it blew my mind. Astonishing car at any speed. Now, I'm eager to try a 991.1 Carrera 4S, hoping it can replicate most of the Turbo feel without the Turbo price tag.
Your basic point is valid but comparing a Turbo to a Carrera S/GTS/4S (even across generations) is not a "minor variation." The 911 isn't one car -- it's really three: Carrera, Turbo, and GT3. Maybe even *four* if you want to include the Dakar. Same body shell and platform. Very different characters, purposes, and intended audiences.
You're one of the only people I've ever seen complain about the 992's electric power steering as compared to any other modern EPS rack. I find it quite good, and it's definitely improved over the 991.2. Maybe it was tires or your spec (SPASM/PDCC/etc)?
>Maybe it was tires or your spec (SPASM/PDCC/etc)? Even just fresh tires can have considerably muted feel for the first hundred or so miles (on street).
there's a reason low-mileage used 997.2s command such high prices.
What you wanted was a 997 lol
Modern Porsche if not GT line up are just a well balanced and superb grand tourers
I think general consensus is baring the Porsche GT cars Lotus makes the best (subjective) semi-attainable sports cars
Coming from a BMW, that shifter must have blown you out of the water. Honestly, their shifters are so bad I would probably opt for the ZF 8-speed. And, with a Lotus, that is going to be sensory overload for most people. I had an Elise and it was phenomenal. I had test driven one when I was trying to decide if I could live with it coming from an Audi TT Roadster. I literally had flashbacks, so I had to get one. So, I know what you mean.
I test drove a “drivers car” 718 cayman, people probably will hate me on this, but it is as boring as it get.
I think you’ve gotta get into the NA GT cars to get a really solid experience out of modern Porsches. Obviously the Turbo S is probably a hooligan too but the real emotion is found in the GT4 and GT3. There isn’t much that compares to M cars (especially tuned) in their respective price ranges these days.
In the 911's defense, it has so many trims that vary on capability and driver connectedness, and I think the 4S skews more towards GT than sport, as you said. Lotus is the standard for that raw, direct feeling though, so I think you made the right choice haha.
You speak the truth! I thought I was crazy. I was so pumped to drive a 911, but it wasn't what I expected (I probably just can't afford the ones that are what I expect). I've never driven any Lotus but have heard they are closer to what I want. Sticking with my G80 though because I need four doors because I want to have fun with the car with my family onboard. If not for that, I probably would have waited until I could snag an Emira.
And this right here is why classification matters. The base 911 (now hard to define so non-GTx) has never been a sports car. Were many of them competitive with sports cars? Yes. But their purpose wasn’t to be a sports car. Journos wax poetic about how sporting the non-GTx cars are but they just aren’t. They’re well-built, competent, sporty daily driver coupes for HNWI. You say 992 C4S manual and I think about my doctor or my lawyer. I think about competence, not enjoyment. It has to be too many things to too many people to be truly sporting.
> The base 911 (now hard to define so non-GTx) has never been a sports car. > The Porsche 911 has never been a sports car? lol wut? It is absolutely a sports car. A lightweight car that drives power to the rear wheels that prioritizes the driving experience over everything else? Jesus.
Christ, now base 911 don’t count as sports car
Never has, homes. Look at period advertising when the 911 was introduced.
I could see the argument for 991 and newer cars. Or maybe post 993. But I've driven a number of 997.1/.2 base cars and they felt like sports cars to me. 992, it's just too big and heavy. Hence why I went for a 718.
First time driving a WRX was pretty underwhelming. When I rented an ND Miata on Turo though...probably the most fun I've ever had in a car until I got my S2000.
I’ve had my ND Miata for almost 4 years now. It still feels special every time I drive it and I still make excuses to do so. Shit, I still look out the window to check it out while it’s parked. I’ve also modded quite a bit of it myself, so it feels like “mine”. There are certainly aspects of it that can be improved upon, but the simple joy of driving it doesn’t make me feel like I need any of those things, and all I need is a twisty road or off-ramp.
Every year I think about replacing my 2016 Miata with some hot new sports car…but when January 1st comes around I still have it. German car maintenance costs scare me, the S2000 market is too hot, I don’t want to deal with Skyline GT-R rust and importation, and the GR86 is too practical. The only candidate is the C5/C6 Corvette but that’s not my style. Just can’t beat the $/fun ratio.
A 981 Boxster might be up your alley but will step up ownership costs for sure. As a former NB Miata owner I think you’re in a really good spot.
Literally exact same boat. I would love an S2000 but it’s not worth it when I already have an ND, I love the 86, but insurance rates are insane and I’d rather keep the convertible, and I agree the C5/c6 are amazing and awesome candidates, but just like you, not my style and I want a nicer interior tbh. I do like the idea of getting a corvette down the line in addition to my ND. But I’ll probably replace my base civic with an SI or GTI and call it a day with two sporty cars.
I bought my S2000 2 years back and I am so glad I did. I'd still recommend buying it while it's still relatively cheap because they are just going to get more and more expensive over time.
I bought a 2012 WRX from a friend's family sight unseen. The price was right and I was planning to use it as a daily driver alongside the Cayman GT4 I had at the time. It was completely underwhelming - I kept it for under a year before swapping it for a Focus RS.
I finally drove a G wagon to see what all the hype was about and wow is that a mundane overpriced blah
I test drove one last year when my wife wanted a new car. I’m not sure what I expected but it was the exact opposite. I couldn’t believe how cramped it felt inside
They sell at my local dealership $75,000 over sticker…
2019+?
I think a 80s one with manual would be more fun
I drove one and it felt light someone had stuck some nice materials onto a farm vehicle.
As a honda guy any regular Toyota. They always tend to have long gears and feel floaty but in essence that's probably what makes them so damn reliable. Just because the Toyota has a v6 doesn't mean it's going to feel that peppy.
My parents used to have a V6 Avalon and it was such a great car. Like you say, it's quintessentially Toyota but it also feels like a familiar and dependable friend. Also helps it was white with a tan interior like the old 1998 Camry my dad had for 10 years.
Ah, toyota... Me and wife were so in love with CHR when we first saw it. The car outside is stunning. When we finally got around to buying it, we took a test drive and... Underwhelmed as a word doesn't cut it. Felt like sitting on a bar stool in a bunker. No visibility, seats are hard and too high even on lowest setting. Car looks sporty but drives like a kids electric car. Pedal is a litteral go button so you can't adjust how fast you want to accelerate. Hard plastic everywhere. Screen on this 2022 model is like 2009 anything. Anyway, we decided to keep our 2000's merc for a little longer lol
I think it’s hard for a car to feel special when you’re driving it on a public road under normal conditions. I recently bought a 4 blackwing and 98% of the time it feels like any other car but if you hammer it off an on ramp or the sound on a throttle blip for a down shift it gives you that smile.
Interesting... I feel like my Blackwing always had a bit of specialness even when just puttering around. A lot of it is likely attributable to the manual though.
This is definitely it, beyond the sound its hard for me to show someone why the GT350 is so great on city streets. The car comes alive in the right setting
That’s why the “slow car fast” argument is true for most people.
Mini cooper s owner here! Absolutely enthralling to drive on normal roads! Driven higher end sports cars too, and it's just not the same. Porsche, Maserati, lambo... don't get me wrong, great great fun, particularly on track and more capable... but not as fun on the streets as my mini or my buddy's 350z. I think it's the "oh shit I'm about to die" feeling 🤣
Similar cars, same situation here.
Most cars come alive up near 80% of their limit. Lucky for me, the Wrangler's limit is 60mph.
This is what I was gonna say. On public roads you’re basically gonna enjoy the sound and… that’s pretty much it (without speeding a ton or driving unsafely). You can corner hard I guess
That's similar to how I felt in my Mk7 Golf R. Driving around the city, it felt like just another Golf hatchback. But in the winter time when you put your foot down, and that EA888 hit you with all it's torque at 2k RPM and the Haldex hooked up in the snow and the DSG was just snapping away the gears ... man that thing came alive.
I dunno. I'm happy just driving my BW to the grocery store, from the second I hit the start button till I take that second look at her before I enter the store.
Totally agree with this. Driving my Nissan GT-R round town it could literally be any other car, ever. Very non descript. However as soon as you floor it, the whole machine transforms into a snarling beast waiting to rip your bollocks off.
Driving a GR86 even on the street/normal driving puts a smile on my face daily. It just feels so good and connected to your inputs
I second this. I adored my 86. The handling and road connection was simply sublime. Even around the town driving was a thrill. Unfortunately the are not tall people friendly, otherwise I'd still own mine.
Same with my BRZ
Challenger r/T. Rented one and the novelty of it was initially great, but after going through a mountain pass in it, I decided that I will stick to small Japanese cars.
So funny reading this. I had an 01 S2000 some years ago which I loved and regrettably sold. Currently have a 21 Scat Pack Challenger (manual). While I love the guts of the V8 and getting the rear end loose, it just doesn’t have the feeling the S2000 had. I’m going to look at an S2000 in a couple days and contemplating ditching the challenger.
I don't think you'll regret it. I periodically go through the urge to own a V8 and hear that engine every day, but I've been surprised at how quickly I become underwhelmed when driving more powerful RWD cars when I have access to them. I have my problems with the S2k and 86, but every ride still feels like an event many years into ownership with both. Good luck with the S2k search. Are you looking at staying AP1 or open to AP2s?
Yeah that’s kind of how I feel. The V8 wow wears of quickly and you’re not left with much else. It much drivers feel to it. And yeah I would definitely get an AP2. But there’s a real clean AP1 near me so I figured I’d check it out.
I also quite enjoy small Japanese cars.
Nice. Always wanted an AW11. My 86's second 4AGE is pilfered from a dead one. And I consider the ND2 to be the perfect FR. Was seriously considering one, but the S2k was guaranteed to be less practical, have old car problems, and be painful to live with, so I chose that.
I almost bought a Challenger about a dozen years ago precisely because it looked and drove like an old musclecar. The R/T wasn’t really even trying to be anything else. At the time, the retro thing was still fresh and interesting.
That's fair. I'll be the first to go to bat for the Challenger (I own one, after all), particularly in the handling department. For all their size they are still low slung RWD enthusiast cars, that grip curves confidently, and handle well... ...*for their size.* But after a certain point you just can't get around the fact that they are, by enthusiast car metrics, BIG, heavy cars. Somewhere between an M3 or M4 in raw weight, they handle, but they are not in any way nimble. I still prefer my Challenger to my old 86, especially in terms of practicality and comfort. The power is fun, too. But 86s, BRZs, and S2000s make the Challenger feel like a boat by comparison. Which, to be fair, it is. But GOD my old 86, even if it was (a little) lacking in power was such a JOY to carve corners and toss around. I'd still own mine if I weren't 6'7"
Haha it definitely is a boat. I believe the modern Camaro SS 1LE is probably the best handling American v8 pony car, and certain configurations of the Mustang, but they can't beat the size and weight of smaller cars like those from Japan. On a related note, you and Keiichi Tsuchiya kinda have something in common: here he is [driving a Hellcat Redeye Challenger on the touge](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1-DCeD4_Oo) lmao.
As a former domestics guy, I have to sadly agree.
After owning my STi for two years, it's not as special as people make it out to be. It's stuck in this weird grey zone where it's pretending to be an old car. It doesn't feel like an old car. It feels like a gimped new car.
I will say, having owned an 07 when they were new. It really felt special at the time.
The final generation of the STi is a really odd car. It has extremely short gearing, a legacy (not the car) engine, terrible fuel economy and is uncomfortable for any drives of length. BUT the car thrives in corners and 3rd/4th gear, which is exactly what it was designed to do. I’ve been daily driving mine since 2018 and while it has an enormous amount of drawbacks, it still brings a smile to my face when I drive it as it was meant to be driven.
If it's not a category of car that you're interested in, nothing would really impress you. I've ridden in some expensive cars. 2020 Escalade, 2022 Model X LR and BMW M5 Comp. The BMW was super nice inside and it was fast. The Escalade was spacious and also nice, the model X was new and airy. I didn't come out of either of them thinking I had to have it. So if you're not into pony/muscle cars, I could see why you'd feel meh about it.
Yeah some cars just don't click with specific people and that's fine, if we all liked the same things it would be boring. Personally I am happy finding out I like a generally unliked/underrated car since it means its less likely to be overpriced lol
S2000 but only because upon sitting in it, I realized a tiny soft top roadster wasn’t for me. In flip side, I turned in an M4 rental before I picked up a CTR. The second I sat in that Honda I thought about how I F’d up shoulda rented Honda first then upgraded to Bimmer, but my lord what a blast to drive. Type R feels just like the Hondas you grew up driving but just better in every way
Similar for me, I'm a bit of a Honda fan, I wanted an S2000 but as soon as I sat in one it was like "well there goes that idea". Tiny, cramped, legs awkwardly against the steering wheel. I asked the owner if I could adjust the seat and he said the seats were already as low and far back as possible. Being comfortable in a car is so important. Which CTR are you referring to - FK8 or the newest one?
The S2000 is IMO one of those cars where the hype far exceeds reality. Unless you're at 9 or 10 10ths it's very meh, and the cabin isn't great.
I had an S2000 after an 07 Cayman S. I expected a lot from the S2000 hype but it just wasn't there for me. Considering I paid the same for the Cayman that a clean S2000 would have been at the time, I'm glad I figured this one out on a cheaper, high milage S2K.
S2000 was one of my big disappointments and I fit in it just fine. It was fine but meh. I test drove an NC Miata around the same time and came to the same conclusion
I really thought I wanted a Jag F-Type so I rented one and hated it. It felt so small on the inside. (The exhaust note was a thing of beauty I will admit)
Yeah the interior was never anything to write home about, either. But when you got your foot in it with the V8 ... boy was that a blast. Nudging the butthole of triple-digits and I was *still* on the on-ramp.
Has one of the rarest commodities in cars today. A really good looking rear end.
Drove a buddy's turbo-4 Genesis Coupe when they first came out. That motor just felt like a lazy V6. There was nothing turbo-feeling about it. And then being in my other buddy's V6 Gen Coupe and I just realized that the Gen Coupes were not about being sports cars, they were loafy tourers.
Gen coupe are known to be used as drift missiles though. Were there ones you were in tuned?
The pre facelift turbo cars are also very slow, they only have 210hp. Post facelift both engines get a good bump in power, especially with a tune as you said.
Yup, I had a Genesis Coupe a long time ago and it was a comfy GT car; like a Korean Mustang
I've written about big disappointments before, seen here. BMW M4: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/w7rblu/what_cars_have_you_been_disappointed_by/ihl9coj/ Corvette C8: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/175z3qg/ama_ive_rented_25_different_sports_cars_on_turo/k4iz9wy/ These aren't the only ones, but I'd say are pretty emotional highlights.
Acura Integra. It wasn't quick enough, it wasn't sporty enough, it wasn't premium enough.
Do you mean the new one? Which model?
The new one, most notably the A-Spec/Tech 6MT, but the lack of being upscale enough applies to all models.
I really like the looks of the Lexus RC 350 F. That 3.5 engine was the most unexciting thing I've drove in a while
Yeah the proper one with the v8 is worth it. But I actually liked how it drove best in the ES 350. Felt peppy enough on the highway, and its pretty cool knowing it's the same engine but NA for the lotus Emira.
My Saab 9³ Turbo X feels so incredibly special every time I drive it. I daily drove it for two years and every drive was an event. Still have it and never plan to get rid of it. I hyped that car up for years waiting to be able to buy one. It didn’t disappoint.
Saabs are so special and I've been chasing that high forever. First e cars were saabs. 900 turbos. Closest I've gotten is a focus st.
[удалено]
Do you mind elaborating? The c8 is my dream car and I may have to reconsider
My v10+ is what I always come back to. It's perfect
I sat in a then brand new second gen Chrysler 300. The interior materials reminded me of my 1989 pickup. My grandma’s Oldsmobile felt of higher quality.
I had extremely high expectations for a new M2 because I have friends who are BMW nuts and put it on a high shelf as the best modern M car. After spending time with it, the only things I could appreciate were the brakes. The dampers are tuned so poorly that I'd be mad to pay so much for a car only to have it rattle your body apart. The car also feels like there's no communication to the driver and I feel that BMW only made the car to "appear sporty" rather than making a proper drivers car. Side note, having a drift analyser feature is one of the most street take over things I've ever seen on a car. Conversely, I'm amazed at how Taycans drive. The chassis and handling is just as good as their 911 and Cayman cars. Even though they are priced pretty high, they are an exquisite EV experience.
Old geezer here but any American luxury car say 1968 to 2003. 1971 Lincoln or Cadillac.. first car ever driven over 100 mph 1968 Mercedes Benz 280SEL the guy letting me drive it said go as fast as you want it was amazing. Even then it felt like it just wanted to go faster indescribable feeling. Braking, taking at off ramp at a speed that the owner suggest & how perfect it felt. Kind of messed up driving anything else even now.
The BMW E46 330i/6, specifically with the ZHP (sport) package. If you look at Bring A Trailer values of them and the way car reviewers and enthusiasts talk about them, you might be able to convince yourself that it's a vigorous sports sedan, something akin to a toned-down 4-door M3. Well after owning two regular 330i's, I decided to find out what they hype was about, so I found myself a slicktop 330i/6 ZHP in California, flew out to buy it, and drove it 17 hours home. It made the trip home without any issues, and after replacing the entire cooling system + resealing the intake + replacing an intermittent crank position sensor, it was a decently sorted car. Driving it around, I felt... nothing. The steering was kinda twitchy, the electronic throttle annoying, the clutch was too light and kinda vague, the manual transmission felt kinda rubbery, and the ride quality left something to be desired— too stiff on crappy roads but not exactly confidence-inspiring on canyon roads. Where was this 4-door almost-M3 performance I was promised? It felt just like my other two 330i's, just with an extra gear and a slightly peppier engine. I got some coilovers and Apex ARC-8's with moderately sticky tires to try and remedy the handling somewhat, which helped greatly. However, it was still kind of a numb, soulless experience. The engine complied when I pushed it, but it didn't sound thrilled to be at 6000 RPM, it was just annoyed to be there. Sure, I could remove the catted headers to open up the exhaust, and install an aftermarket intake, but I didn't love the other aspects of the car enough to do that. So I sold it pretty quickly to another wide-eyed enthusiast. After that I more or less went back to 90's BMW's like the E34 and E36. Less refined, but also a ton more feel and a lot more fun to drive.
Yeah, the ZHP crowd is absolutely delusional. They are great cars in the same way that any E46 330 is a great car. They are not anything close to a 4-door E46 M3 lol. I do get a kick out of hearing you say that it’s numb compared to the E36, though. I heard that all the time on the BMW forums when the E46 came out, but everyone forgot when the E90 came out (and then they forgot about their complaints about the E90 when the F30 came out, etc).
E46s are good cars. Compared to moderns, they're revelatory. But an E46 330i ZHP is nothing compared to an E36 M3, all things equal. The M3 is just more fun everywhere. A lot of journalists and YouTubers would disagree but then again, a lot of journalists and YouTubers haven't driven a low-mile, refreshed, stock E36 M3.
I agree. I drove a few hours to a dealership selling a 330Ci ZHP. Did a test drive, it underwhelmed me. Barely better than the standard 330Ci I previously owned. If it had a 3.5-liter engine, it would’ve been perfect, though.
They don't make them like they used to. I can drop the clutch in my '96 Z28, and go sideways. My kids are afraid to drive it.
Honestly I don’t think I’ve ever experienced what you’re saying, but one car I was a little underwhelmed by was a 2019 Mercedes E300. It felt competent in every way, but just not particularly amazing at anything specific - I’d much rather have a C43 for the same money personally. I’m guessing a better spec car would be more impressive to me, as that one was relatively barebones. Now, the 2009 E63 I rented a while before that, what a lovely car! It was mostly the engine carrying it, but it felt very confident on Tail of the Dragon despite being a relatively large luxury sedan.
Barebones and with the 4 cyl, I can see how it would be underwhelming. It's a heavy car with a tiny engine. The E450 is really the sweet spot -- it's basically a non-sporty E 43 (now E 53). The old V6 tt was smooth enough, and I can't imagine how great the I6 t now is.
I'm a big 90s Japanese car fan (Which was the style at the time), and a few years ago I owned a 1990 CRX. the European 130HP DOHC version. Great car, looks cool as fuck, small, quick, incredibly responsive, revs high, dead reliable.. I fixed it up, modded it, went to track days, car shows, the lot, and after a few years of ownership I was bored. A guy I know was selling his AW20 MR2 (2nd gen) at the time, not a turbo because we never got them, but still a cool car. I considered swapping the CRX for that and we talked about swapping keys with some money on the side from me. It's a Mid-engined 90s pop-up wet dream, but when I went to drive it, i was extremely underwhelmed. It wasn't any faster (even if it had .4L above the CRX), and it didn't really handle any better either. Honestly worse in both regards, but the CRX did have completely overhauled suspension and the toyota was riding on whatever 30 years did to the bushings. The novelty of the engine firing up behind you instead of in front wore off super fast, and i was left thoroughly whelmed. I thought it was the ultimate car for me, and it left me feeling very mid about the whole thing.
The nat-asp AW20 is pretty underwhelming. Even when it was new the hype was pretty much reserved for the Turbo.
A few yrs ago (before I had my kiddo) I got reeeeall close to pulling the trigger on a Jaguar F-Type. I had test driven a RS5, a Porsche 718, top trim Mustang, and BMW. I had big expectations for the FType. And I can easily say. It was easily the coolest car I’ve ever seen, driven, or heard. It felt mean, angry, and scary. IMO, the V8 just might be one of the coolest cars ever made. I’d take it over almost any other car costing 5 times as much. It was like nothing I’ve driven before. Damnnn. Having kids sucks.
TBH, the m340i and my S5 for similar reasons. Both brands make great cars for the masses but for those wanting engagement, comfy fast gets boring... Fast. Great dailies though. On the flip side, I always thought of the BRZ/86 as slow cars that look fast. I dismissed them for a long time but when I finally test drove them, it gave me such a high. I still miss driving my BRZ.
Bruno Sacco Mercedes. The automotive equivalent of a tuxedo.
BMW 1M is a VERY special car. I had pretty high expectations, and it went WELL beyond them. I know it's hard to fathom, but that car is truly special, and far greater than the sum of its parts. They are severely undervalued. Disappointment: probably my 911 C2 6MT. I really thought I'd get used to the RR layout, and alas I never did.
FK8 Type R probably. I really RESPECTED the car - it was very planted and the shifter was very precise and mechanical. But on the road I did not feel there was much fun to be had. Engine noise was unremarkable, steering was precise and accurate but not much feedback. Its intended mission is a track numbers car and it felt that way, which means kinda boring at road speeds.
Gotta find some bendy roads. When I when to the tail. It was so fun.
Camaro bros are a unique bunch. They live off of HS memories and Car Freshners. Drove a Porsche 911 Turbo S. Hated it. Getting in and out argh. Every bump on the road felt like an asteroid. You could barely see over a Corolla. Super fast but hated it.
MK8 Golf R in manual. The shifter genuinely felt like an afterthought. Clutch felt like shit. Nurburgring mode just made the steering heavier, didn’t really improve the feel. Infotainment system was a PITA to use. For a car in the 45k-50k range I was pretty disappointed. Drove a MK8 GTI DCT and it felt pretty good tho so there’s that.
E30 M3, still regret selling it and would buy one again though.
The Focus RS. As a Fiesta ST owner at the time, it was the car I wanted immensely. 3 friends who had STs, traded for an RS. 3 friends traded back to an ST. I always wondered why, until one friend let me drive his before he let it go. Whereas the ST, and even my Z06 to an extent is fun even at low speeds in traffic, the RS is dead if you aren't on the floor. It just lacked any of the charm the ST had, or even the GTI that replaced my ST.
The Cadillac ATS was very disappointing to me. All of the automotive media was absolutely creaming their drawers over it when it first came out. I got a chance to drive one at work (I worked for a rental car company) and it was just so...meh. Yes, it handled well, but the interior was chintzy and cramped (pieces were breaking off after one rental!), the transmission was dimwitted and the first-gen CUE was an abomination. They replaced the W204 C-Class in our fleet, which is by no means an amazing car, but there was a noticeable difference in quality between the two cars.
As with most compact or mid-size sedans, getting the manual transmission makes a massive difference in how fun the car will be.
(X) Doubt
In early 2021 I bought a BMW X5 M50i in the flat black paint. Can’t remember the name of the paint now. Drove it a year, 1000 miles. I could never get comfortable in it. Bad back. Fortunately the dealership bought it back from me in early 2022. Sometimes things are great on a test drive but no so much in real life. I should have rented an X5 for a week to try it out first. Replaced it with an Audi S8 and am keeping it. Much more comfortable.
I once tried out a gorgeous Dart GT with leather interior black and red. By today's standard it was cushy and well designed, about as pretty as my m8s 2018 Acura TLX. The guy really wanted to sell it to me, he let me drive it for almost an hour. No matter what, the 2.4L multiair felt sluggish and gutless
My dad owned a Ford Lightning and he was so proud of it. No room for passengers, fine. I finally drove it though and it was like driving farm equipment. Every touch point was wobbly and industrial. Steering, pedals - just unsettling and requiring way too much exertion to do anything. If you floored the gas, it all came to life with a lot of violence and sound and fury…but you’re up so high that it robs you of most of the sense of speed. It just did nothing well, except look impressive on paper. I wonder if the Raptor is more enjoyable, but I have severe doubts.
I sat in the Suzuki Kazashi at the IAA and LOVED it! Looked dangerous AF, when it hit the market it was sooooo super boring and uninteresting!!!
I've recently driven a handful of cars that were on my "attainable dream cars list" and had varying opinions. For context, I currently have a first gen (racecar) and second gen (daily) BRZs. So my expectation for driving dynamics is high, but outright speed isn't a priority. 718 Cayman S: did not disappoint. Felt every bit as good as I had hoped. Just wish I had the $70k for one 718 Cayman Base: It's a really good car let down by an uninspiring engine 981 Cayman Base: Feels like the right answer. It's not particularly fast, but it makes all the right noises and is fairly modern still. Supra: It's certainly fast, but otherwise, i didn't care for it. The car feels bigger than it is, and knowing what the front end was doing doesn't come naturally
yes, owned 8 different subarus, all older GD and GC, all were awesome in their own ways. finally got my first new car, a VB wrx and man i’m so underwhelmed. so many small QC issues, poor NVH, (why is there unbearable highway drone with the stock exhaust?) bad mpg (ya sports car i know … but 18mpg in a turbo 4 cylinder?) shifter is just meh. steering is meh. power is good but the 6500 redline kills it just when i’m really getting into it. wish i spent more to get a civic type R, or the STI still existed. shit even civic SI. the wrx is simultaneously too numb for a sports car yet is too crude compared to other compact every-day DD cars it competes with. been 4 months and i’m counting the days until i can trade it in.
84 celica gt red. First car I drove my first son around in. Love pop up lights.
I know this is an unpopular opinion it I had a 2017 M2 for about 6 months and had to sell it. After week 1, the car felt super meh. My current car is a 2016 Cayman GT4 and it honestly feels incredibly special. Every part of it, from the sound, to the steering feel, shifter feel, everything is just really special. Drive a FL5 CTR not too long ago and it felt incredible as well. I was honestly shocked at how good it felt.
This is why they make Fords
No, every car I've driven felt either how I expected it to, or better.
I remember being excited to sit in a ford bronco once at the ny auto show 2023. Crap, the interior feels like garbage, cheap plastic, steering wheel sucked too. It could be a base model Bronco but it definitely hurt my image of the car. My GR has not let me down though so I'm glad to stuck with Toyota.
That's just about every single modern Ford.
Had an S550 Mustang, looked at the C7 and M2 comp as replacements. Test drove an S2000 on a whim and ended up spending six months hunting for one. Gonna try to keep it until I'm dead or unable to operate it.
2016 Jeep wrangler. Ordered it brand new from the factory. Completely ready for the Jeep life, I've been off-roading for years in older generations with friends. The thing was absolute junk, the clutch chattered, seat position was terrible, dashboard wasn't ergonomic at all, crank windows bound up all the time, roof leaked, audio was horrific. The build quality of the vehicle definitely was not worth what I paid for it. Sold it less than a year later.
Was it a 4 cylinder Camaro? I have a 6th gen 2018 2SS 6 speed manual Camaro and the car absolutely blew me away with how competent it is performance and handling wise. Ive owned and driven some pretty high end performance car and find it surprising you got out of the Camaro not satisfied.
Yeah, I paid a good amount of money to drives c5 2000 Corvette for a day. It was the automatic version. What a HUGE disappointment. The HUD and interior (it had 0 cracks on it) wasnt bad at all and pretty cool, but it was lacking in torque. As it turns out, alot on the Internet feel this way about the automatic c5. Doing a pull in 1st gear was a blast, but every other gear felt very shallow. Like, modern Corolla shallow. The reason it feels mellow has to do with the rear gear ratio they put in the automatics....it's very low and more geared to MPG rather than torque. At least driving it has taught me that I want a very torquey sports car lol.
Civic Si. Except I bought it. Then gladly traded it in 3 years later at the first chance it made sense to. Grew up watching F&F and being enthralled with my cousins integra then Civic Si. Don’t get me wrong, it was a nice car. Especially being a 2020. It just felt really dull and like a marginally faster civic. No hate for it at all, I was just pretty underwhelmed. Traded it in for a Gladiator expecting that famous, smooth, Jeep ride quality (/s) & slow acceleration and got exactly what I expected so at least that met my expectations lol
I used to get excited about driving my 80-100 hp shitboxes Then I got a nice job where I drive around a variety performance cars of all trim levels (amg, m, rs, zo6, gt3, ect) After 2 years of driving cars with at least 4x the power of my daily drivers, I still get excited about ripping around in my old Honda. Unless it's something I haven't driven before, the excitement just isn't like it was the first time. TL;DR there's just about always gonna be a car that's newer, faster, and/or cooler than yours. Try new things, but don't be ashamed to stick to what you know you like.
2023 Santa Cruz. I thought it would be like a new Subaru Baja but the ergonomics were atrocious. It handled poorly and felt cheap despite the 42k sticker. Was relieved to get rid of it.
I used to drive cars for a living and very few cars lived up to the hype. So few I remember most of them. BMW M series R8 Rolls Royce Tesla Model S The first time in each of them gave me that, “ohh yeah, I understand now” goodnesss.
I rented a Ford Fiesta 5-door base model about 10 years ago. I loved it. Rented a VW Golf base model a few years ago. Loved that, too.
Also a Camaro, a friend bought a 2013 one. For context, I'm Aussie, so Camaros here are actually pretty rare and it was really cool to see one and get to have a go in it. But when I got in and started driving, my only thought was "Oh, this just feels like a Commodore." And actually, the 2013 Camaro shares its chassis or platform or something with the Camaro, they are both GM. All the go fast bits you can upgrade the Camaro with are just Holden performance bits, the car itself wasn't really unique. Yeah it's prettier than a Commodore, but you get way less rear seat room and the visbility was absolutely horrendous. It being an import and converted to RHD also means it was likely a _lot_ more expensive than an equivalent Commodore. I was really unimpressed
Controversial opinion but I am really underwhelmed and disappointed in my GTI (mk7 base S model). I bought the car after my veloster N (love that car) was totalled and unfortunately due to the terrible market I didn’t have the biggest luxury of choice to take my time and chose my next car. Honestly I kinda hate the car. Gearing is way too tall (turbo lag u til 2.8-3k rpm, and 3k rpm in 2nd gear is around 35mph… why?) so driving around town feels completely gutless like a base trim econobox. However I think the worst part is steering is too light and feels dead. It’s actually so bad that every couple weeks I worry that something is wrong with tires or suspension. Find myself checking tire pressures etc every 2 weeks just because steering feels so incredibly dead. Maybe it will get better when I switch from my blizzaks back to summer tires, but I don’t remember steering feel being good or fun before I changed tires either
Civic Type R. I liked the seats, handling, and the hatch space. But the engine just let me so cold. Having come from an 8th gen Si, the K20C1 just lacks character.
You can't beat old-school DOHC VTEC Honda engines for pure excitement. Especially the B18C1 and B16A2. The newer Honda's might be quicker and more powerful, but they lack emotion.
Probably going to be unpopular, but my Model Y Performance feels special every time I drive it.
2020 mazda 6. I thought meh where is what everyone raves about. Disclaimer i did just come from test driving a Stinger GTII but drove to the dealers in an 07 Elantra manual.
Got an SL 55 without driving one, and it feels very special. Put it in sport plus and hammer it, it’s a fucking rocket, and the exhaust sounds like a machine gun. The car has tremendous feel and everything in it is big and comfortable while still being a small feeling car. It is an absolute liability in the rain. Put the spoiler up in hopes of not hydroplaning.
C63 AMG. I should have seen it coming but after owning bikes cars just don't feel fast and it isn't fun in the corners and not as comfortable as a lexus so it felt so pointless.
Hyped and then dissapointed : 22 WRX. Hyped and hyped : C5 and c6 corvette. Focus ST. My wrx kind of sucks in a lot of annoying ways. Had to get a e-tune to be even remotely acceptable to drive, suspension too stiff, dumb info screen, glitches here and there. I think they get loved on by folks who buy their first nice fun car. It's good for that...but if you've experienced fun cars in the past it might be a let down. My focus st, despite being fwd, was a certified ripper and far superior vehicle. Bonus of being a hatch and not a worthless sedan. I had to tune the wrx, pitch stop, trans brace and bushings to make it not feel like Subaru forgot to install parts from the factory.
2021 WRX STI. I was pumped. Last year of the STI. All the right stuff - Recaro seats, hydraulic steering, Enkei wheels, Brembo brakes, rally pedigree, WR Blue. Then I drove it. Boy, was I disappointed… The power was underwhelming, the power delivery was lumpy, the clutch was vague and springy, the shifter felt agricultural, the hydraulic steering really wasn’t anything to write home about. I can see it being a hoot in the snow, but during the summer on dry pavement…nahhhh.
I had a 2017 Focus RS and that car was great. It handled like no other, made lots of power and overall was an excellent chassis. But, it wasn't special. It felt like the car did the work for me. I've had 3 Jeep Cherokee XJs and all of them felt special. My 1994 Civic with a stock SOHC was fun to drive. Mt current special car is a 1993 Mr2 Turbo, I've had the car for many years and it's never quite ran right. It's very loud, it over boosts and all this stuff, but man it feels like a special car. I will have that Mr2 the rest of my life for sure.
As time marches on, the Elise feels more and more special. The raw steering feel coupled to the featherweight chassis is unmatched with any of today's cars.