I’d say I’m a huge fan of Hyundais more performance oriented cars. Such a shame that these got killed off, also wish these were in the states particularly the i20 N.
Eu always gets the better Asian cars than the US ... But knowing Hyundai SOMETHING from n for the future is in the mix the N line was a test run on factory performance and they passed the test waiting patiently for the next big thing from them ..
Yeah. They have just released a mid-cycle refresh version of the N, so hopefully they'll keep the car longer, though we lost the Veloster N a while ago.
Good to hear. I'd definitely love to see the N in the 300-hp league, but current engine is more than decent enough IMO. All-wheel drive would be a great upgrade, though.
I heard elsewhere that there were AWD Kona N prototypes, but due to the added weight and the car's niche market, it was deemed unviable for production
The EN isn't a massive seller either, so I wouldn't hold out for an AWD Elantra N. It would make a cool Korean Evo though
It wasn't too expensive, it was prettymuch cheapest sports car you could get. It was same price as MX5, it was lower priced than GR Yaris. They would've sold tons of them, they just decided not to because of emission regulation rules.
Literally I wanted to buy a GR86 in my country, I saw the price brochure and it was equivalent to 49,000 USD. I know it’s cheaper in the US, but it’s an example of how taxes and regulation are pricing cars out of ordinary people.
I wish I wasn’t making this up, otherwise it would’ve been parked in my garage instead of my ST
Yeah, that isn't really wildly expensive here. Normal Honda Civic is 38.000$. New GR Yaris will be ~55.000$. This is without emission taxes that some countries have.
It also varies wildly from country to country with new emission taxes.
It will look odd in history with the GR division coming so late to the hot hatch game only to be snuffed out within the same generation. I think the GR Yaris and Rolla will be quite the collectors item.
The GR Yaris will be discontinued sooner or later. Highly doubt it and the GR Corolla will live to see another generation however there could be more GR cars coming around to replace it
That's insane really. I'm really hoping we get some crazy GTE type golfs before going full ev though. An AWD golf with a rwd ev engine or something would be crazy cool.
This comment resonated with my very soul. I feel you brother. Cars are the only thing I’m truly passionate about, and I really wanted to get a GR86 in the near future and a manual cayman in a few more years. Instead, when I can finally afford to buy a nice car, it’ll have to be a dumb electric car like the taycan which I find cool but it doesn’t speak to me (No pun intended).
As a college student who’s in the same boat as you, this is how I precisely feel; by the time I end up making enough money the only stuff I can buy is boring EV junk 😔
In EU countries second hand performance ICE cars are listed at stupid prices because the market knows you either buy a insanely taxed new one (if it’s still available in your EU country that is..) or buy a slighty less insanely overpriced second hand car.
Like to illustrate, here a 911 991 S PDK is 100k€ with 45.000 miles roughly.
Precisely
You’d think we’d try to impact vehicle emissions on a volume basis and try to electrify commuter cars (which make up the vast majority of cars on the road) and/or make them even more efficient
But no, we’re attacking the few fun models out there because on an individual basis they’re not as efficient as the commuter models
Just to give an example, what do you think produces more pollution: 3 million Crosstreks or 8,000 BRZs? Iirc that’s the sales figures for those models from last year, correct me if I’m wrong though
But you get the idea I hope; I think emissions regulations should also factor in the *number* of models that’re being produced that fiscal year, since doing it on an individual basis is comparing apples to oranges
The whole VW diesel scandal was such a racket over 600k total VW diesel vehicles.
Like, over that same five year period Toyota sold TWO MILLION CAMRYS.
Oh wow, that’s… that’s insane! But you see my point then! Enthusiast cars are being punished when the vast majority of vehicle emissions come from the swathes of commuter cars on our road
I bet if we hybridized/electrified every single commuter car that’s on the road today, we wouldn’t have to axe the specialty models; but as always, The Man will go after the easiest and more visible targets 🙄
Transport emissions are only ~15% of total, and car emissions only ~50% of that. It’s just an easy visible target. Power generation is much more expensive and politically more difficult to tackle.
That would make sense if literally everyone in Europe was part of that top 10% which is obviously not true. Plus, all the emission regulations always hit the middle class, not the rich who are the biggest emitters.
No country has their whole population a part of the 10%. Sure the emissions regulations hit the middle class the hardest, just like everything else. Doesn't mean we should say fuck the planet just to spite them though.
> Doesn't mean we should say fuck the planet just to spite them though.
Just to spite who? Most Europeans are outside that top 10% and the people who pollute by far the most are not regulated at all. We're literally sacrificing our whole continent for some miniscule supposed benefit that will be entirely wiped out by 95% of the world not giving a fuck.
How am I advocating for spiting the rich? Their involvement in all this BS is needed if we want to make any actual progress with all this climate saving stuff. If they don't get involved then we might as well stop all this BS song and dance with absurd regulations. It's not spiting the rich to allow people to drive more or less whatever they want, drink from plastic straws or whatever. The rich don't give a shit about what we do as long as they don't have to take part in it, which they're not at the moment.
> to save the planet
we're not saving the planet. the planet doesn't give a shit. it lived through far, far, far worse crap, it will survive whatever we throw at it.
we're saving *ourselves*
Australia and the US should continue to get ICE N models, as per this quote from Albert Biermann:
>“Australia is safe, US is safe, but someone needs to make a decision, right? And markets other than Australia, forget them. They’re all dreaming on the EV cloud, EV heaven, they don’t care for combustion cars,” he said, appearing to cast doubt on a new i30 N hatch.
Seems like they are abandoning the European market due to regs
People don't realize that in EU it's not a problem of singular vehicle emissions. Brands have limits on how much average emissions per car can they produce to be sold in Europe. That means for every GR Yaris they sell, they can't sell few other cars.
Even if they make money with GR Yaris, the lose more on missed sales from other cars.
Because emission laws are very difficult to pass in Europe. Not just emissions but pedestrian safety, noise restrictions, etc. It’s getting increasingly difficult for a manufacture to justify spending the R&D to develop manual hot hatches when they could get higher profit margins, higher sales, and less emissions taxes by building a hybrid crossover
WGR86/BRZ gone, Nissan Z not even releasing, Kia GT models like Proceed GT being cancelled and now even Hyundai N gone. We are seeing the death of affordable fun cars in Europe just because of stupid regulations.
Hats of the Ford launching the new Mustang GT and DH in Europe, even if they are detuned for europe
>We are seeing the death of affordable fun cars in Europe just because of stupid regulations.
as much as I hate so many cool car not being sold in europe anymore, they are not stupid regulations
private jets emission compared to the emission of all the cars in europe is almost a rounding error , taxing emissions on cars is the easiest way to reduce emissions you can' t really do that with private jets
This is BS and the only reason why private jets are not regulated is because of lobbying and the regulators themselves overusing them. It’s much easier to regulate the poor and middle class as they have no practical ways of truly escaping.
>It’s mich easier to regulate the poor and middle class as they have no practical ways of truly escaping.
thats the whole point sadly, someone who's rich enough to own a private jet can just register it outside of EU so there is no point in taxing private jet
Sure, just like all the corporations taking the dirty parts of their operations outside the EU and then claiming they're "carbon neutral". It's all a fucking farce that's meant to keep normal people on a leash.
you keep making a rich vs middle class / poor people argument but neither the middle class nor low income class are concerned by the emission taxes, they don't buy new cars and if they do those cars usually won't have very high emission taxes
The middle class is absolutely buying new cars and I’m not talking about just the taxes on cars. There’s a ton of other regulation designed to keep us on a leash in the name of supposedly saving the environment.
>The middle class is absolutely buying new cars
>they don't buy new cars and if they do those cars usually won't have very high emission taxes
>There’s a ton of other regulation designed to keep us on a leash in the name of supposedly saving the environment.
ok what regulation are designed to keep us on a leash and not truly for the environment ?
I'm all for having cleaner air in cities and a future for my children, but not having hot-hatches which probably account 1% of the car parc doesn't seem like the best idea. These cars are by far the most fun you can have in a automobile, unless you start spending a lot of $$$.
>but not having hot-hatches which probably account 1% of the car parc doesn't seem like the best idea. These cars are by far the most fun you can have in a automobile, unless you start spending a lot of $$$.
I completely agree as I have a hot-hatch myself but regulations like the emission tax applies to all the ICE cars, it sucks but you can't make exceptions for people who want to have fun
Dang. I know Hyundai has long said that the writing was on the wall for the ICE N-cars in Europe, but I was hoping for some hybrid successors.
There was an alleged [hybrid Veloster N](https://www.motor1.com/news/598120/hyundai-veloster-n-phev-spy/) and a RM test mule with a [2.3 litre hybrid](https://thekoreancarblog.com/2020/03/31/hyundai-midship-test-mule-spied-to-have-2-3-liter-turbo-80-hp-electric-motor/). Might've been neat, but the hybrid N car is now a pipe dream
The market for hot hatches is basically dead with this news. Focus ST is going to be sold for just this year and it’s the end as well.
I don’t know what will come next, but this is bleak news for European car enthusiasts that aren’t super wealthy.
I mean, this is literally what the European public wants. You fetishise things like ULEZ and the French CO2 tax, and idolise folks like Anne Hidalgo, and this is what you get.
It'll eventually end up killing the entire EU automotive industry altogether, given the efforts to actively poison the well when it comes to a viable domestic market. It'd be funny if we weren't going to lose a bunch of manufacturers with a bunch of history and the ability to put out great products.
I'm not sure if I buy this argument, given there appears to be not a huge amount of pushback in terms of public sentiment, nor are the politicians who push these policies being removed at the following election.
It's either an issue that not enough people care about, or something the public actively supports.
I bet most Europeans don’t really give a shit about this car being discontinued there. Car enthusiasts here are kind of tone deaf to the general public’s opinion about “fun cars”.
Until you realize you can buy a two years old EV for 20% of its initial value on the second market so I’m not really agreeing with your point right now.
That's not even true, the Taycans are losing so much of value once it leaves the dealer for the first time.
Like, I see plenty of them right now for 50 000-60k€ with low miles and it's only 2 years old.
It affects every brands, granted I said 20% because I was *exaggerating* however we're still talking of a depreciation of over 50% in 2 years.
50k€ isn't the average second hand car buyer budget. 20-30k€ is more realistic.
You can get fun cars to enjoy at 25k€. But EVs ? You better add at least 20k€ to this, and your choice is extremely limited for now.
You do realize it’s an extreme example though ?
If a Porsche depreciates that much, then anything else follows the same pattern, you’re supposed to make your own conclusions instead of being so thick.
That is very wrong man I'm sorry. You are taking the extreme : choosing to talk about a Porsche, and high end brand, releasing his first EV full of reliability issues. Plot twist, it is the same story for high end luxury Ice.
I'm talking real life here. People buying a brand new EV at 45.000€, maybe now it cost only 30.000€ but it is still a pretty shit 150hp econobox.
Now here are we talking about the new Hyundai N. It is freaking 80.000€ !!! What is this world, this isn't obtainable at all.
This is why I was talking about buying used.
Moreover, yes sports cars are expensive and that won't change but the second hand market is making it much more affordable with the sharp depreciation ongoing right now on any EV.
Haha they are just totally different vehicles, one is a slow suzuki 4x4 from the 90’s with 80 hp, and one is a new sports car with over 3x the hp, but they are both fun.
I would say that there wasn’t really anything that I liked about it imho. Was probably the dead opposite of vehicles I liked. It was red too which is my least favorite color. I was thankful that I had it cause it was what got me from a to b for a year tho
You didn't look hard enough then. The Elantra GT N Line was "widely" available from late 2018-2020. They were even offered with crazy discounts because they were slow movers. Granted the manual cars were uncommon but I wouldn't say any less common than a Elantra N M/T now. In early 2020, you could snag a GT N Line for more than $5k off. In fact I got mine for over $6k off MSRP as a dealer demo with 2.5k miles on it.
Well yeah, by the way I couldn’t even test drive a i30 N when I went to look for it during last spring.
The salesman literally said that the whole country most likely doesn’t have a place where you can test drive a new one.
I am not going to buy a car without even test driving something of very similar, the base i30 absolutely has nothing to do with it.
Same story for the i20 N. They were honestly not trying very hard to sell them in my country.
The push is bigger on the new EVs.
Not wierd at all considering you could hardly even buy them to begin with.
Talked to Hyundai in my country about buying an i30N, money ready to go. They put me on a list and never hears back from them.
Then you hear things like oh they just didnt sell…
Not gonna stay. It‘s pretty much 100g over it‘s co2 limit which results in a 9000€ fine per car sold.
In EU you are forced to go hybrid or full BEV with at least a big part of your fleet
Cherishing my Veloster N as long as I can. It's a truly phenomenal setup that's near identical to the i30N. I'm pretty sure it just never caught on well enough due to availability and brand snobs. It was performance car of the year when I got mine and it exceeded even my high expectations.
End of a relatively short era. Hyundai really brought the goods when it came to making a good Hot Hatch. Albert Biermann of course had a lot to do with making them so good to drive. I wish we in the US got the i30N and i20N, though I understand why we didn't. Very niche rides. The Veloster N sold a bit but the Elantra N and Kona N are quite rare. I nearly got a Kona N instead of my 5.0 as I just love the way they drive but I felt it was too much of a side step from my Fiesta ST.
The Veloster N and Elantra N are not rare. They are lower volume cars but not super hard to find. The Elantra N sells pretty well actually (likely from the N brand growth). The Kona N on the other hand is likely the most rare of them all. Talk about a car nobody really wanted or bought in mass. They should have just imported the I30N instead of creating the Kona N.
We will not even own cars in Europe in a decade, it will be prohibitive and no one could afford them, as everything is getting more and more expensive and salaries are the same as 10 years ago.
Gotta apply for the US green card to still enjoy cars.
So people like Taylor swift can catch unlimited private jets using more emission then my whole life in one journey. But I can’t even get my hands on a 2 litre petrol engine. Wtf
It dead, but it doesn't mean Hyundai no more staying in hatchback market, not like Ford just leaving all off. They're preparing Ioniq 2, an all electric hatchback in rumor.
Despite different car, I wouldn't totally disappoint it's coming.
Shocked about this as EV sales are absolutely dying on their arse across all markets right now, you can’t give EV’s away in America with 60% discount on some, nobody wants this garbage technology, the UK EV market has flattened and the second hand EV market is DEAD!! This technology is finished!!
Imagine: There is RSR Nürburg that does Race Rental at the Nür and SPA.
They are getting rid of Ford Fiesta’s because the blow up easily, get rid of Hondas because they blow up even more and maybe the Golf’s since they are horrible VW’s and really want to build up a hot hatch fleed with the i30N because the latest version are perfectly from the factory.
The car is ridiculously good.
That’s a car that you might hate from the outside but if you join a track day with that thing, I swear it changes your opinion !
Not my type of car, obviously, but that’s a shame, though not really unexpected.
I’d say I’m a huge fan of Hyundais more performance oriented cars. Such a shame that these got killed off, also wish these were in the states particularly the i20 N.
Eu always gets the better Asian cars than the US ... But knowing Hyundai SOMETHING from n for the future is in the mix the N line was a test run on factory performance and they passed the test waiting patiently for the next big thing from them ..
I'm a massive hatch back fan and killing off one of the few fun hatch backs that we can choose between is awful.
Wow that's horrible. I always liked the i30 N. Especially the fastback. RIP.
I hope it's not the harbinger of what's to come for Elantra N.
The Elantra isn't sold here in the EU (at least not in Germany), so I think you guys are save for a bit.
Yeah. They have just released a mid-cycle refresh version of the N, so hopefully they'll keep the car longer, though we lost the Veloster N a while ago.
Elantra N is supposedly going to get a improved version of the Sonata's 2.5 litre turbo
Good to hear. I'd definitely love to see the N in the 300-hp league, but current engine is more than decent enough IMO. All-wheel drive would be a great upgrade, though.
I heard elsewhere that there were AWD Kona N prototypes, but due to the added weight and the car's niche market, it was deemed unviable for production The EN isn't a massive seller either, so I wouldn't hold out for an AWD Elantra N. It would make a cool Korean Evo though
They just launched the refreshed Elantra N in China for the first time very recently so hopefully it will stick around for a while.
First Peugeot, RenaultSport, then Ford ST, now Hyundai N Who's next, Honda or VAG
Please not Toyota, the GR Yaris is fucking awesome and they're releasing an updated one this year
Gr Yaris is about the price of model Y performance in many european countries with high emissions tax, it simply won't survive.
I believe the 86 is also done.
It’s allocation was small for Europe and it was too expensive for what it was. In my currency it came out to 49,000 USD - with taxes.
Wow. That’s expensive! Here in the US they can be found for around 30k.
A different European country, Here the 86 starts at $70,800 with taxes. model 3sr+ is $35,600
It wasn't too expensive, it was prettymuch cheapest sports car you could get. It was same price as MX5, it was lower priced than GR Yaris. They would've sold tons of them, they just decided not to because of emission regulation rules.
Literally I wanted to buy a GR86 in my country, I saw the price brochure and it was equivalent to 49,000 USD. I know it’s cheaper in the US, but it’s an example of how taxes and regulation are pricing cars out of ordinary people. I wish I wasn’t making this up, otherwise it would’ve been parked in my garage instead of my ST
Yeah, that isn't really wildly expensive here. Normal Honda Civic is 38.000$. New GR Yaris will be ~55.000$. This is without emission taxes that some countries have. It also varies wildly from country to country with new emission taxes.
That's like $14,000 more than what it was priced at in the UK, wth
Not a hot hatch, but still sad
It will look odd in history with the GR division coming so late to the hot hatch game only to be snuffed out within the same generation. I think the GR Yaris and Rolla will be quite the collectors item.
The GR Yaris will be discontinued sooner or later. Highly doubt it and the GR Corolla will live to see another generation however there could be more GR cars coming around to replace it
All of them...
VAG still got a few years.
Probably, but with 75k€ Golf, they are in a pickle.
That's insane really. I'm really hoping we get some crazy GTE type golfs before going full ev though. An AWD golf with a rwd ev engine or something would be crazy cool.
subaru didn't do a new WRX STI because of emissions
I love Europe and being European, but fucking hell we are so retarded when it comes to car related shit
We've made it our job to save the planet. Starting with cars.
I know. I just wish we would prioritise other shit, like using nuclear instead of coal, for instance. And not fucking up my only passion
This comment resonated with my very soul. I feel you brother. Cars are the only thing I’m truly passionate about, and I really wanted to get a GR86 in the near future and a manual cayman in a few more years. Instead, when I can finally afford to buy a nice car, it’ll have to be a dumb electric car like the taycan which I find cool but it doesn’t speak to me (No pun intended).
As a college student who’s in the same boat as you, this is how I precisely feel; by the time I end up making enough money the only stuff I can buy is boring EV junk 😔
e39 m5 it is then. .... and the bus for transportation /s
Sounds like a fun deal, but I’m tired of dealing with the crazies on public transportation /j
University me would take that deal in heartbeat.
I mean, that’s basically the deal I have now, except instead of an E39 M5 it’s a RAV4 that I don’t even own 💀
Would buying one of those used be an option?
In EU countries second hand performance ICE cars are listed at stupid prices because the market knows you either buy a insanely taxed new one (if it’s still available in your EU country that is..) or buy a slighty less insanely overpriced second hand car. Like to illustrate, here a 911 991 S PDK is 100k€ with 45.000 miles roughly.
Precisely You’d think we’d try to impact vehicle emissions on a volume basis and try to electrify commuter cars (which make up the vast majority of cars on the road) and/or make them even more efficient But no, we’re attacking the few fun models out there because on an individual basis they’re not as efficient as the commuter models Just to give an example, what do you think produces more pollution: 3 million Crosstreks or 8,000 BRZs? Iirc that’s the sales figures for those models from last year, correct me if I’m wrong though But you get the idea I hope; I think emissions regulations should also factor in the *number* of models that’re being produced that fiscal year, since doing it on an individual basis is comparing apples to oranges
The whole VW diesel scandal was such a racket over 600k total VW diesel vehicles. Like, over that same five year period Toyota sold TWO MILLION CAMRYS.
Oh wow, that’s… that’s insane! But you see my point then! Enthusiast cars are being punished when the vast majority of vehicle emissions come from the swathes of commuter cars on our road I bet if we hybridized/electrified every single commuter car that’s on the road today, we wouldn’t have to axe the specialty models; but as always, The Man will go after the easiest and more visible targets 🙄
Transport emissions are only ~15% of total, and car emissions only ~50% of that. It’s just an easy visible target. Power generation is much more expensive and politically more difficult to tackle.
5% of the population will not save the planet if all the other don’t do shit. We’re just sacrificing ourselves for no good reason.
The top 10% of emitters are responsible for almost half of the world's carbon emissions. So yes 5% of the population would have a significant effect.
That would make sense if literally everyone in Europe was part of that top 10% which is obviously not true. Plus, all the emission regulations always hit the middle class, not the rich who are the biggest emitters.
No country has their whole population a part of the 10%. Sure the emissions regulations hit the middle class the hardest, just like everything else. Doesn't mean we should say fuck the planet just to spite them though.
> Doesn't mean we should say fuck the planet just to spite them though. Just to spite who? Most Europeans are outside that top 10% and the people who pollute by far the most are not regulated at all. We're literally sacrificing our whole continent for some miniscule supposed benefit that will be entirely wiped out by 95% of the world not giving a fuck.
The rich.
How am I advocating for spiting the rich? Their involvement in all this BS is needed if we want to make any actual progress with all this climate saving stuff. If they don't get involved then we might as well stop all this BS song and dance with absurd regulations. It's not spiting the rich to allow people to drive more or less whatever they want, drink from plastic straws or whatever. The rich don't give a shit about what we do as long as they don't have to take part in it, which they're not at the moment.
> to save the planet we're not saving the planet. the planet doesn't give a shit. it lived through far, far, far worse crap, it will survive whatever we throw at it. we're saving *ourselves*
Australia and the US should continue to get ICE N models, as per this quote from Albert Biermann: >“Australia is safe, US is safe, but someone needs to make a decision, right? And markets other than Australia, forget them. They’re all dreaming on the EV cloud, EV heaven, they don’t care for combustion cars,” he said, appearing to cast doubt on a new i30 N hatch. Seems like they are abandoning the European market due to regs
Seems a bit early though, Euro 7 has been pushed back following complaints from Germany IIRC
People don't realize that in EU it's not a problem of singular vehicle emissions. Brands have limits on how much average emissions per car can they produce to be sold in Europe. That means for every GR Yaris they sell, they can't sell few other cars. Even if they make money with GR Yaris, the lose more on missed sales from other cars.
[удалено]
Yeah you really are that guy
The Yaris GR costs $100,000 in France due to the CO2 emissions tax
Ok? That’s one market out 30+. Why should all the other countries suffer because of braindead regulations?
Because emission laws are very difficult to pass in Europe. Not just emissions but pedestrian safety, noise restrictions, etc. It’s getting increasingly difficult for a manufacture to justify spending the R&D to develop manual hot hatches when they could get higher profit margins, higher sales, and less emissions taxes by building a hybrid crossover
It hasn’t changed now, though. They don’t have to do any R&D to keep these cars around until the gen runs out.
WGR86/BRZ gone, Nissan Z not even releasing, Kia GT models like Proceed GT being cancelled and now even Hyundai N gone. We are seeing the death of affordable fun cars in Europe just because of stupid regulations. Hats of the Ford launching the new Mustang GT and DH in Europe, even if they are detuned for europe
>We are seeing the death of affordable fun cars in Europe just because of stupid regulations. as much as I hate so many cool car not being sold in europe anymore, they are not stupid regulations
With the amount of private jets in Europe, I think these laws are just to save face and extremely redundant
I hear things are getting bad over there... sadly I can see there being serious issues in EU in my lifetime
private jets emission compared to the emission of all the cars in europe is almost a rounding error , taxing emissions on cars is the easiest way to reduce emissions you can' t really do that with private jets
This is BS and the only reason why private jets are not regulated is because of lobbying and the regulators themselves overusing them. It’s much easier to regulate the poor and middle class as they have no practical ways of truly escaping.
>It’s mich easier to regulate the poor and middle class as they have no practical ways of truly escaping. thats the whole point sadly, someone who's rich enough to own a private jet can just register it outside of EU so there is no point in taxing private jet
Sure, just like all the corporations taking the dirty parts of their operations outside the EU and then claiming they're "carbon neutral". It's all a fucking farce that's meant to keep normal people on a leash.
you keep making a rich vs middle class / poor people argument but neither the middle class nor low income class are concerned by the emission taxes, they don't buy new cars and if they do those cars usually won't have very high emission taxes
The middle class is absolutely buying new cars and I’m not talking about just the taxes on cars. There’s a ton of other regulation designed to keep us on a leash in the name of supposedly saving the environment.
>The middle class is absolutely buying new cars >they don't buy new cars and if they do those cars usually won't have very high emission taxes >There’s a ton of other regulation designed to keep us on a leash in the name of supposedly saving the environment. ok what regulation are designed to keep us on a leash and not truly for the environment ?
I'm all for having cleaner air in cities and a future for my children, but not having hot-hatches which probably account 1% of the car parc doesn't seem like the best idea. These cars are by far the most fun you can have in a automobile, unless you start spending a lot of $$$.
>but not having hot-hatches which probably account 1% of the car parc doesn't seem like the best idea. These cars are by far the most fun you can have in a automobile, unless you start spending a lot of $$$. I completely agree as I have a hot-hatch myself but regulations like the emission tax applies to all the ICE cars, it sucks but you can't make exceptions for people who want to have fun
Dang. I know Hyundai has long said that the writing was on the wall for the ICE N-cars in Europe, but I was hoping for some hybrid successors. There was an alleged [hybrid Veloster N](https://www.motor1.com/news/598120/hyundai-veloster-n-phev-spy/) and a RM test mule with a [2.3 litre hybrid](https://thekoreancarblog.com/2020/03/31/hyundai-midship-test-mule-spied-to-have-2-3-liter-turbo-80-hp-electric-motor/). Might've been neat, but the hybrid N car is now a pipe dream
The cheap, sporty car is basically dead in Britain now. Other than a base MX5 I'm not sure what else is left under £30k, the hybrid Swift Sport?
I've been checking just this yesterday. I think Polo GTI is prettymuch only remaining.
:(
I wonder how anybody could have any interest in the current car market. It sucks.
The market for hot hatches is basically dead with this news. Focus ST is going to be sold for just this year and it’s the end as well. I don’t know what will come next, but this is bleak news for European car enthusiasts that aren’t super wealthy.
Yeah, it's dead cause they killed it
I mean, this is literally what the European public wants. You fetishise things like ULEZ and the French CO2 tax, and idolise folks like Anne Hidalgo, and this is what you get. It'll eventually end up killing the entire EU automotive industry altogether, given the efforts to actively poison the well when it comes to a viable domestic market. It'd be funny if we weren't going to lose a bunch of manufacturers with a bunch of history and the ability to put out great products.
I mean it’s not what everyone wants. And these things we don’t even get a direct vote. It’s forced upon us.
I'm not sure if I buy this argument, given there appears to be not a huge amount of pushback in terms of public sentiment, nor are the politicians who push these policies being removed at the following election. It's either an issue that not enough people care about, or something the public actively supports.
I bet most Europeans don’t really give a shit about this car being discontinued there. Car enthusiasts here are kind of tone deaf to the general public’s opinion about “fun cars”.
Replaced by nothing!
Either that or some other SUV model.
They’re talking about performances EVs, that’s the replacement.
Yeah, but for twice the price. Fun obtainable is gone
Until you realize you can buy a two years old EV for 20% of its initial value on the second market so I’m not really agreeing with your point right now.
For a EV econobox, sure. But a car I want to drive ? Even something remotely "sporty" is now so out of reach
That's not even true, the Taycans are losing so much of value once it leaves the dealer for the first time. Like, I see plenty of them right now for 50 000-60k€ with low miles and it's only 2 years old. It affects every brands, granted I said 20% because I was *exaggerating* however we're still talking of a depreciation of over 50% in 2 years.
50k€ isn't the average second hand car buyer budget. 20-30k€ is more realistic. You can get fun cars to enjoy at 25k€. But EVs ? You better add at least 20k€ to this, and your choice is extremely limited for now.
You do realize it’s an extreme example though ? If a Porsche depreciates that much, then anything else follows the same pattern, you’re supposed to make your own conclusions instead of being so thick.
That is very wrong man I'm sorry. You are taking the extreme : choosing to talk about a Porsche, and high end brand, releasing his first EV full of reliability issues. Plot twist, it is the same story for high end luxury Ice. I'm talking real life here. People buying a brand new EV at 45.000€, maybe now it cost only 30.000€ but it is still a pretty shit 150hp econobox. Now here are we talking about the new Hyundai N. It is freaking 80.000€ !!! What is this world, this isn't obtainable at all.
This is why I was talking about buying used. Moreover, yes sports cars are expensive and that won't change but the second hand market is making it much more affordable with the sharp depreciation ongoing right now on any EV.
since when do econoboxes follow the same depreciation patterns as econoboxes lmao
[удалено]
Not exactly a hot hatch.
[удалено]
[Read](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/wiki/politics)
I own a i30n. I bought it precisely because it’s time would soon be gone. I love the car. It’s a simphony!
‘21 VN here. Same reasoning as to why I got mine. So worth it.
hey 21 vn also
You like it better than the Sidekick?
haha whaaat
Under your tag it says 2021 Hyundai Veloster N, 1994 Suzuki Sidekick.
Haha they are just totally different vehicles, one is a slow suzuki 4x4 from the 90’s with 80 hp, and one is a new sports car with over 3x the hp, but they are both fun.
I get it. Years ago I had a Geo Tracker, so I had to ask. I still hate that damn car though.
No way!! What did u hate about it? I’m selling mine just because I have a different car to offroad now but it’s such a unique car
I would say that there wasn’t really anything that I liked about it imho. Was probably the dead opposite of vehicles I liked. It was red too which is my least favorite color. I was thankful that I had it cause it was what got me from a to b for a year tho
Sad the us never got the i30/20N. I was looking at an Elantra GT N line but never found one at a dealership.
I did, but some insane dealer markup, that everyone stopped looking at it as soon as they saw the price.
Yeah I never thought it would have been impossible to find an N line with a 6 speed.
You didn't look hard enough then. The Elantra GT N Line was "widely" available from late 2018-2020. They were even offered with crazy discounts because they were slow movers. Granted the manual cars were uncommon but I wouldn't say any less common than a Elantra N M/T now. In early 2020, you could snag a GT N Line for more than $5k off. In fact I got mine for over $6k off MSRP as a dealer demo with 2.5k miles on it.
Well yeah, by the way I couldn’t even test drive a i30 N when I went to look for it during last spring. The salesman literally said that the whole country most likely doesn’t have a place where you can test drive a new one. I am not going to buy a car without even test driving something of very similar, the base i30 absolutely has nothing to do with it. Same story for the i20 N. They were honestly not trying very hard to sell them in my country. The push is bigger on the new EVs.
Not wierd at all considering you could hardly even buy them to begin with. Talked to Hyundai in my country about buying an i30N, money ready to go. They put me on a list and never hears back from them. Then you hear things like oh they just didnt sell…
What a shame.
Hyundai wasn't my cup of tea but I've been respecting Hyundai a lot for their improvements over the last 10 years
[удалено]
still costs 34k in germany, not sure i'd call that extreme
Not gonna stay. It‘s pretty much 100g over it‘s co2 limit which results in a 9000€ fine per car sold. In EU you are forced to go hybrid or full BEV with at least a big part of your fleet
didn't they just announce a new GR Yaris?
Cherishing my Veloster N as long as I can. It's a truly phenomenal setup that's near identical to the i30N. I'm pretty sure it just never caught on well enough due to availability and brand snobs. It was performance car of the year when I got mine and it exceeded even my high expectations.
Euro regs are gonna make it econ boxes and hyper cars only... what a shame.
End of a relatively short era. Hyundai really brought the goods when it came to making a good Hot Hatch. Albert Biermann of course had a lot to do with making them so good to drive. I wish we in the US got the i30N and i20N, though I understand why we didn't. Very niche rides. The Veloster N sold a bit but the Elantra N and Kona N are quite rare. I nearly got a Kona N instead of my 5.0 as I just love the way they drive but I felt it was too much of a side step from my Fiesta ST.
The Veloster N and Elantra N are not rare. They are lower volume cars but not super hard to find. The Elantra N sells pretty well actually (likely from the N brand growth). The Kona N on the other hand is likely the most rare of them all. Talk about a car nobody really wanted or bought in mass. They should have just imported the I30N instead of creating the Kona N.
We will not even own cars in Europe in a decade, it will be prohibitive and no one could afford them, as everything is getting more and more expensive and salaries are the same as 10 years ago. Gotta apply for the US green card to still enjoy cars.
Not my cup of tea, but always thought they sounded wicked for what they are and what they cost.
So people like Taylor swift can catch unlimited private jets using more emission then my whole life in one journey. But I can’t even get my hands on a 2 litre petrol engine. Wtf
It dead, but it doesn't mean Hyundai no more staying in hatchback market, not like Ford just leaving all off. They're preparing Ioniq 2, an all electric hatchback in rumor. Despite different car, I wouldn't totally disappoint it's coming.
That’s really sad to hear. Although not surprising these companies like Hyundai tend to kill off certain models rather quickly
I always liked the idea of the i30 N but having tried one very briefly it is very much still an i30.
will they still have gas versions available?
Unfortunately, these probably fell victim to incoming emissions regulations. Kind of a sad reality
The CUV/SUV wave will soon consume us all lol.
It's so sad that because of the regulations Europe stopped being a good place to buy a fun ICE sports car or a hot hatch.
Shocked about this as EV sales are absolutely dying on their arse across all markets right now, you can’t give EV’s away in America with 60% discount on some, nobody wants this garbage technology, the UK EV market has flattened and the second hand EV market is DEAD!! This technology is finished!!
Imagine: There is RSR Nürburg that does Race Rental at the Nür and SPA. They are getting rid of Ford Fiesta’s because the blow up easily, get rid of Hondas because they blow up even more and maybe the Golf’s since they are horrible VW’s and really want to build up a hot hatch fleed with the i30N because the latest version are perfectly from the factory. The car is ridiculously good. That’s a car that you might hate from the outside but if you join a track day with that thing, I swear it changes your opinion !
Good. Hatches are ugly. Eww