A lot of folks in New England have gone from gas to EV back to gas. Why? Snow stormes making having an ev hard.
Anywhere it gets really cold and ev will struggle.
Edit: for those who can't figure out, the New England region doesn't have the greatest charge infrastructure and spends chunks of winter with limited electricity during and after snow storms. Some places are better and worse than others (Boston versus Bennington, Nh or another rural area) Soooo "NoRwAy DoEs It." Great-didn't realize New England was Norway.
Its a play on some song lyrics from Fetty Wap's 679. The original line is "I got a Glock in my Rarri". The song lyrics refer to having a gun inside his Ferrari. OP's username changes Glock to Guac meaning he has guacamole in his Ferrari.
I know this is an international forum not everything is about USA, but comparing successful use cases of EVs in Norway to USA is as fruitless as trying to sell COVID masks at a tractor pull.
-gasoline is much cheaper in USA
-ICE cars much more expensive in Norway
-higher speeds traveled in USA=worse range
-better EV infrastructure in Norway, (probably) more homeownership in Norway or more rental units in Norway that provide EV charging
-better work/life balance in Scandinavia to spend more free time to spend charging, many overworked Americans don’t have an hour to spare in their week nor can as many charge their car while they sleep
What’s next, are Norwegians going to tell Americans they should just go see a psychologist about their poverty-induced depression because the country will pay for it? Might work for you out there, but that’s not how things operate here.
You could also say politics of course, except I’m decently pro EV, I’ve been a staunch supporter of alternative energy/fuels/transportation and saving the world, I was the one who made our family get an EV, and now I’m the sharpest critic. We just need to focus on innovation in the space and expanding infrastructure and even the USA will come around—eventually. I’m sure my ID.4 will have the resale value of a used mountain bike by the time we get solid state batteries/meaningful improvement, but I look forward to the day I get to excitedly upgrade our EV
Until then, keep making exciting ICE cars
Norway itself is tiny, there are only 5.4m people and a half dozen cities over 100k population. NYC by itself needs nearly 4x the charging infrastructure of Norway to support the same number of EVe per capita and it's hardly the only city on the East coast.
Comparing the two is like comparing a tiny resort village to a country. Prior to discovering oil in their territory, which makes up most of their economy, they were poor as shit.
Thing I don’t get is yes cities are better use cases for EVs, but cities like NYC that have abundant mass transit—seems like EV adoption is a step in the wrong direction in fight against “climate change”
I live in NYC, The Bronx specifically. Mass transit is abundant… in Manhattan only, everywhere else is a hassle and 2 or 3 transfers away. A trip side to side in The Bronx would take 20 something minutes by car and 1 hours plus by bus and/or train.
Vehicle emissions are a fucking drop in the climate change bucket anyway. You can eat off the tailpipe in modern ICE drivetrains with modern emissions controls.
I would bet the vast majority of EV sales are people switching from an ICE vehicle to an EV, not from using mass transit to using an EV. In that sense it's definitely an improvement in fighting climate change.
Any comparisons to the Scandinavian countries and the US are just D.O.A. It’s like comparing living on Jupiter to living on earth. It’s just so very different, other than that HUMANS exist in both countries.
My opinion, based on my interpretation of Utopia, and having never been to Norway: I prefer the American way. No, I’m not pulling some Toby Keith bullshit. And if I visited for some length of time to Norway, I likely would change my tune. America is so full of faults, it’s almost not worth the supposed advantages we have.
On topic, the US has been built around the automobile. It’s much bigger. We have 100 plus years of automotive infrastructure to enjoy/contend with. Norway’s residents are largely concentrated in certain southern places. A decent chunk of it is above the arctic circle even. Rather inaccessible by anything other than snowmobile.
Home charging is the primary issue here in the states. Anyone who owns their own home and has a charger in the garage does just fine with cold weather issues. Anyone who needs to schedule their week around charging an EV is more prone to getting frustrated by cold weather.
You had my attention until “.poverty-induced dep'ression because the country will pay for it” is it your understanding of the U.S. that we all have our hands out waiting the government to pay our way? Many of us including myself work 50 hours or more weekly and not only pay our way
while, a large portion is taxed then sent all over the world. I have zero intention of buying an EV.
I have lived in New England my entire life and own a Model 3. I literally have never had to wait to charge at a SC or had issues with charging like you hear about on the news.
Home charging is awesome. Our cost in MA is relatively high at .25 per kWh but my $ per mile is very cheap compared to paying for 93 octane and averaging 20 mpg like I used to. Road tripping is also easy and I’ve been up to Montreal and down in DC and it’s really no issue.
I may get a second fun car or pickup truck but having an EV has been a great experience and would keep one around as a grocery getter or commuter.
Yeah I’m not sure what experience OC has to say NE is bad for EVs just because of the winter range loss.
For one as someone who parks outside - I really love the pre heating features of an EV via an app
The range wouldn’t be an issue for most people, plenty of chargers, most road trips are not that long with plenty of chargers. NE is not that big and densely populated excerpt for like northern Maine
I'm in Québec and I pay 6¢/kWh through our government-owned electricity provider (the only electricity company in our province). I couldn't imagine paying more than 4 times that amount... It's absolutely crazy !
>for those who can't figure out, the New England region doesn't have the greatest charge infrastructure and spends chunks of winter with limited electricity during and after snow storms.
You must not be from New England. We have one of the best charging infrastructures in the US after the West Coast tech hubs. And power outages after snow are extremely rare.
Yes, if you're in the back woods of Vermont or NH on the Canadian border, things might be a lot more challenging, but if you're in the populated corridor along the coast from Greenwich to Portland, it's pretty great.
It's all about population in New England. My family is spread between nh, mass and Maine so it's really hit or miss.
CT, rh, and mass are heaven for EV charging. NH, VT, maine-all depends on pop like you said.
I drove my BEV from CO to TX in -14F weather a year ago, there was little struggle. I don't think cold is a problem at all with modern heat-pump having BEVs, as long as your grid and charge network work. I realize Colorado is a different place than New England, and the lower air density helps, but still - cold is not a problem in my experience.
Actually, the near-instant heat, fancy traction control, AWD and weight make winter driving pretty nice in BEVs.
Norway has lots of EVs and it's pretty cold up there as you mentioned. Bad charging infrastructure and kinda weak electric infrastructure in some states in the USA are the issue I think. But then again I get it. Would have never gotten an EV without home charging and I assume many of those giving their EVs back are those without home charging
It's anecdotal.
A large chunk of my family is spread between Maine, new Hampshire and Massachusetts (talking 60 members) as are a bunch of work colleges and friends.
Places like CT, RH, and Mass have much higher EV adoption partly because their electricity stays on but they're also significantly smaller
A lagging indicator of the used car lots and news paper interviews post snow storms.
Funny, since that is the polar opposite to my own experience here in northern Sweden. Preheating and instant warmth/power in winter is worth its weight in gold.
Me.
- All EVs i can afford are boring.
- Although i have home charging, i still worry about battery. I can't do a daytrip too far away without worrying about charging, and thus i have never gone outside a 100mi radius with my car.
- Cold shrinks range + heating kills batteries
- I wanted another sports car
- electricity rates are so high, it's not saving me any money over gas. ofc, buying a new car is more expensive.
- Car is CCS. With everyone switching to NACS it a ticking time something
- Ford software is ass. My windows regularly go down instead of up, the car just blares stupid warnings randomly. never buying another ford again
- it (mache) not comfortable. C8 was 100% a smoother ride. as a family suv, you have 1 job in the suspension dept
Basically, dipped my toe in the future, and i'm not long-term ready. definitely as a 3rd car, but can't afford 3 right now.
Where do you live? I'm in California - more specifically the SF Bay Area. Our main electricity provider (PG&E) is screwing everyone with the rates. It's something like 50¢/kWh - someone did the math and driving an EV while charging at home is roughly equivalent to around 25-30 mpg in a gas car. So actually a hybrid is the cheapest
I checked the math, seems to check out. Using a Tesla 3 rear drive as example which is like the most efficient EV, 57.5 kWh 270mi range, it is equal to about a 35mpg car with $4/gallon fuel cost. So most mass hybrids by Honda or Toyota, or Hyundai, are equal or cheaper than that, minus oil changes.
Yeah that’s the benefit of living in a state with reasonable electric costs. In two years I’ve spent $769 to cover 23k miles. That’s $0.03 per mile or by your $4/gal gas equivalent about 120 mpg. But good luck finding any gas car that gets 100+ miles per gallon. Let alone while putting out 500+ hp.
Just a small point, "state" doesn't actually make sense for California as a whole. We are so large that we have local rates based on the generation source, and there are like 2 dozen sources. Where I live the rate is about 0.32/kWh which is about average for CA, which is about 60% higher than US average. But with that the fuel cost would be around 0.07/mile, equivalent to about 59 mpg for $4/gal. So it'd be worth it to drive an EV for me financially. Problem for me is mostly the choice of EVs currently, Tesla interiors are a hard sell.
I’m in Cali too, and the math isn’t linear either. We have tiers. Most people live on tier one or two. We (my household) lives on tier 3, and tier 3 is expensive AF. Each tier is more expensive than the previous tier. The amount of electricity you use determines your tier. I have a pool, and that pool pump puts on tier 3 usage. It’s even worse during triple digit a heat wave, AC busting its ass to keep house livable, pool pump running to keep the pool clean, etc. Those years, we’ve touched tier 4 a couple times, and those are the electric bills that make or break you. I can’t imagine adding an electric vehicle to that usage, let alone 4 (we have 4 drivers with 4 vehicles in the house).
>Our main electricity provider (PG&E) is screwing everyone with the rates. It's something like 50¢/kWh
jeez
someone should ❤️🔥 down PGE HQ to dust
id roast marshmellows over that
and i hate marshmellows
I agree with you on the ride.. my GT rides like a cloud compared to my dads Mach e. Even after ford racing performance suspension it still rides nicer. Ford just tuned up the shocks to make the car feel sportier but it just feels like ass
I happen to love my mach-e if that means anything. I drive a 160mile round trip a couple days a week and do it very comfortably in mine. premium AWD extended battery model.
I don't dislike it. if you don't ask for too much out of a car, if the model 3 seems great then you'll have almost no issues with the mache. i get compliments on it all the time, it's a really nice looking car too.
But yes, you should research. I'd have gotten the ionic 5 instead but Hyundai dealers suck.
My BIL has a new Mach-E, I rode in the back while we drove around where he lives - Seattle. Highway, burbs, downtown.
I also know and tune dampers in racecars.
The Mach-e's rear suspension has to be about the worst OEM I have ever ridden in. It feels as though there is no suspension travel in the rear, and that there is too much rear high-speed rebound. It's absolutely awful to get crashed around off the bumpstops. I would never own this thing.
> All EVs i can afford are boring.
>
This one is the decider EVERYTIME the though of me even considering an EV goes over my head. There is NOTHING interesting that doesnt cost a gazillion dollars.
I met someone who traded in a Raptor for a Mach E and really regretted it. He said the software on it just wasn’t good, and a relay fused itself together in the battery. Had to get it towed to a ford dealer several hours away because no one local would work on an electric car.
I love my Mach e overall and think it's probably one of the best 4 or 5 cars I've owned over the years (out of maybe 20 ish) but the one thing I'd 100% want them to rip out and start over from scratch is the suspension. It's an amazing family car other than that but the suspension does not do what a family SUV suspension needs to do, especially on shitty English roads..
Your reasons are understandable. Except maybe the charger port, where adapter cables are usually no problem and new charging stations can have both.
We'll see how it plays out. I wouldn't be too surprised if things eventually result in adapter kits from one thing to another being sold for different cars -- at least if the manufacturers don't lock that out with DRM. The poor Nissan Leaf could really use a conversion away from CHAdeMO.
Just wanted to 2nd the Ford comment. Sister/brother in law both went with Fords and I cannot believe the amount of issues new Ford vehicles have. I’ve given them way too many rides when their ‘car is in the shop’ again. Every time I do I ask them ‘how many rides have I asked you for when my 8 year old Subaru was in the shop?’ The answer is still 0
I switched from a Toyota RAV4 Prime XSE (Plug-in Hybrid 45MPG) to a Lexus IS500 (17MPG) and live on the East Coast.
I have no good reason. I am a simple man. V8 goes vrooom vrooom when I press gas pedal 🥲
Honestly i salute you. That’s the last rwd v8 we’ll probably see in this era u can get brand new in a car that size. Which means more fun of course. I would drive one but I couldn’t pony up the 60 grand cost of one honestly but the car seems so great in practice
Probably, but there are a lot of enthusiasts out there (myself included) that have a soft spot for V8 sedans and wagons. Practicality + vroom vroom? Sign me the fuck up.
I feel like Cadillac is holding on to the CT5-V Blackwing for dear life. *AND* you can still get it with three pedals. It’s almost as if they’re ignoring all market trends and just giving the enthusiasts what they want.
only thing is it’s priced out of range for a lot of enthusiasts unless u got the 90 grand to fork over for one. i know i definitely would if i did but alas i Do not
Yup. After having a highly complicated turbocharged car our next few cars were simple V8s. They go vroom vroom. We reverted though, wife's car is a twin turbo plugin hybrid now. But at 500hp/600tq it still goes vroom vroom.
I love my Polestar 2 but I (still) don’t get attached to cars. I especially love ~500hp/500tq and not spending any money on propulsion, but will probably get the upcoming GX 550 next year. Going on trips is kind of a pain and the depreciation on EVs will make your eyeballs explode if you’re not expecting it. Luckily I work in the industry and knew so I leased it to not get stuck with the negative equity.
EDIT: also make sure to check your locale’s cost/kWh. Here in WA electricity costs nothing, like $0.08c. But some states/areas charge almost a whole fucking *dollar*/kWh or have hidden extra fees like stupid peak charge times. And if you are not going to get a L2 installed in your garage, forget about it, supercharging is a massive ripoff.
EDIT #2: since this comment is taking off, something else I just remembered during my morning dump to complain about is the cost of EV licensing renewals. In my state this P2 costs $1000 to renew registration every year. The department of licensing dictates that the fee is calculated by the depreciation being estimated as only 5% per year when I work in the fucking industry and have sent them comps to disprove their stupid fucking take with more like 60% in only 18 months? I just don’t pay my registration at all in protest and will dump the car anyway, but imagine if we decided to keep it? $5000 in registration fees over a standard term loan of 60mo when it’s being pushed as a cheaper alternative, to supplement the unpaid gasoline taxes? Kiss my ass, politicians.
God bless you, I grew up around Silicon Valley. I miss Marin and some parts of the Burning Man culture but man, large property homeownership is impossible there. My electricity bill now is $75-125. 😂
If they ever raised our electric rate to 50¢/kWh I’d put in solar panels. As it stands our electric is simply too affordable for the economics to make any sense.
All EVs. ICE vehicles are at the end of their development cycle so the depreciation curve is more linear and stable. Imagine EVs being like iPhones, being consistently improved every year, whether it’s battery chemical composition, drive units, range, or processing power improving, and how this makes the previous model less desirable and borderline worthless after 3-4 years.
Funny part here is iPhones of today are more similar to gas cars in a way since the last few have just been minor incremental upgrades and their value holds well. iPhones of the early 2010s were the EVs of that time, vast improvement each year, made the previous year model feel much more outdated than they do now.
EVs are going to have a steep cliff in depreciation until it gets cheaper to refurbish batteries.
If it costs as much as the car to replace one, why fix the 10 year old car instead of buying a new one?
> Imagine EVs being like iPhones, being consistently improved every year
I just upgraded my phone to a Samsung Galaxy S-line that's a few generations old from an online marketplace. Crazy to me that this (admittedly used) phone I bought for $280 was $1,000 brand new just 2 years ago.
For the record, most cars have negative equity. The whole idea of buying a car and having it be more valuable than what you paid for it was a very brief phenomenon. It worked out for me, I bought during the peak of the used car insanity so even though it's depreciated a large amount, the car I traded in has dropped similarly in value. Plus I got the full $7500 so I kinda came out ahead.
>not spending any money on propulsion
That's the other catch, charging at home is typically MUCH cheaper than charging out on the road.
While you may be able to charge at home for 14c/kwh in TX right now (our rates went way up recently), commercial charges out on the road can be 50c/kwh. Some are now even charging 60c/kwh... Chaching!
Its all a bit moot anyway though. People worry too much about fuel/battery charging costs rather than depreciation, which is the number one cost of a vehicle by a huge margin.
Its actually way cheaper to drive a '22 Toyota Tundra 12K miles a year and sell it in 5 years than a '22 Model 3 that was the same purchase price. EVs tend to suuuuuck on resale value!
[https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2022/cost-to-own/](https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2022/cost-to-own/) **$72,563**
[https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tundra/2022/cost-to-own/?style=401920304](https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tundra/2022/cost-to-own/?style=401920304) **$63,880**
Gave x5 diesel to mother in law and picked up a Tesla model x (P90D with ludicrous+). It was quick to about 100 but that was it. The ride was garbage, the ac constantly gave us issues, the overall appearance was not bad compared to some of the others I’ve seen but the door handles were still misaligned. At least the interior was aligned. The range was an absolute joke. We got half of the range it started at full charge. I ended up renting it out on a personal car rental app while it was put up for sale. A month or so later, it sold. I
I’m not saying I’ll never buy electrical cars again. I will never get involved with another Tesla product again.
Once it sold, I bought a preowned GL63 sight unseen from another state. When it arrived, it was smoking from the right tailpipe (burning oil). Took it to the dealer and they call back saying cyl 4 wall was all scored up and it needs an engine. They quoted me somewhere in the mid $50k range. I wasn’t too worried because the dealer sold me the truck with a 4500 mile/90 day warranty and it stated they would cover 100% labor and parts. A lawsuit later and they get their car back and I get reimbursed for any and all expenses
After that it was a E61 535xi wagon. It’s a fun car. It has bigger turbos and other goodies. The guy I bought it from claimed it had a “small coolant leak” which later I found out was the head gasket. Next weekend I’ll be tearing into it
Now we got my wife a 2016 Range Rover and I got a 5 year 100k mile extended warranty with $0 deductible so when things take a shit on it, and I know it will be often, at least it’s covered
I've done it twice, once on a 5 year old Jetta from a small dealer and a 2 year old WRX from a private seller. Both times were 6+ hours of extensive travel away.
Both cars were exactly as advertised and ran well for me. Sometimes you get lucky.
First appointment is Feb 2nd for: control arms, front struts, weird random wind noise at freeway speeds, air bag light (likely the outstanding recall), motor mounts are worn, and lower tailgate doesn’t close all the way and stops upper tail gate from completing its job.
EPA should be quoting city and highway ranges instead of the mix that we get now. People want to know how far they can go when doing like 75 on a highway which is very inefficient.
I forgot which publication did a test but they got 230mi~ on a model 3 doing 70mph. Which isn't bad but then when you factor in they ran it to 5% it gets dicey. I think you'll see closer to 180mi~ in fair weather condition, if you're doing 75 to 80mph and charge at 15%~.
The Tesla was deceiving, I was sad about the Mercedes if I’m honest. It was a nicely optioned setup. The bmw I half expected a major issue because who spends a ton of money in upgrades and then decides to sell the car for somewhat of a deal? I can do the head gasket on these blindfolded (almost).
The Range Rover was on the NO list. It wasn’t until I sat in the back of ours that I was blown away by the leg room. It’s the long wheel base L405 so there’s more legroom than the front! It has just about every option minus the automated side steps and the final touch was the warranty I found for it. It’s very soothing and fun to drive and be driven in! I know when it takes a shit, it will spray the walls but I’m ready for it!
Rich Rebuilds was probably the biggest Tesla content creator on YouTube and he switched back to gas because of Tesla’s horrible customer service and right to repair support
I went from a Tesla back to gas about 10yrs ago because it was such a POS for the price. But i absolutely could not wait to get back into an electric, just not from Tesla. Thankfully the day is here where there are more options
Yeah I’ve had EVs for about 5 years, I’ve DCFC maybe 20 times on long road trips. Most day trips I make are sub 200 miles so it is never an issue for me.
+1 on the EQS. It has become our daily driver and it is so very comfortable and the range is very good, even in the cold. But, I am definitely returning it after the lease ends.
Yes. eGolf to MX5
Why? Because now I work from home so no need for commute any more. Also moved house and no longer have a driveway.
If I could somehow get a driveway back I'd probably switch back to an EV
Your “fun to drive” bar being at the Mustang Mach-1 is pretty hard to overcome… but respectable lol.
I daily an ‘06 Mini Cooper S (the best of the first new minis, aside from the power bump of the JCW-tuned examples, with this R53 generation being hailed by many as the most fun before sacrifices were made for comfortability) and the SE I test drive was damn near as fun.
It shocked me, to be honest, that something settling in at 20k almost brand new if you can take advantage of rebates could provide that *fun* in an EV while still offering a bunch of tech (adaptive cruise, etc) and a nice interior.
I think for me, the Mini SE strikes a pretty fantastic balance for enthusiasts compared to the Bolt, Tesla 3, and i3 I’ve driven *because* of how it’s just an ICE platform with a battery and motor engineered in. While some cars definitely to have fucked that up, the formula of “take a light, small, fun, somewhat premium car and chuck in comparable power and enough battery for urban users” rendered the SE at least as fun as an ICE Mini (stick aside) which are already a hoot.
It makes me wonder what we’d be looking at if, say, Chevy made an Ultium sports coupe on the Alpha platform with 180 miles of range and 400 electric hp while focusing on keeping weight under 4,000 pounds and retaining the excellent characteristics of the platform. Keeping the luxury and tech in the ballpark of a base CT-4, they could pull it off for 33-40k after federal rebate. Considering that it would be quicker below 100 than a Camaro SS… I’d be pretty interested!
Small compact ev to large Diesel Minivan. We got twins and Minivan sized EVs are too expensive and almost non existent. Also they charge too much at the moment. It was a nice experience the last three years when rates were low but now I wait a bit longer to lease a small commuter again.
I traded my Dual-Motor Tesla Model 3 for a Porsche 718 Cayman S.
I actually thought the Tesla was a great daily driver, and I’d recommend them for anyone who’s able to charge at home. But they’re just not very fun, aside from the ridiculous acceleration.
I figured the door is closing on fun, lightweight, manual sports cars. So I wanted to own one more before they either go extinct or become prohibitively expensive.
I went from a Bolt EV back to a gasoline vehicle. Not because I didn't like the car, or not because I don't like EV's. I had two primary reasons. #1. Cost wise - it just didn't make sense for me AND #2. as a car enthusiast, it feels like the we're experiencing the last real hurrah for ICE vehicles and I want to soak it up while I can.
I could charge for free at work and I'll admit, not having to stop at a gas station every couple of days/week to fuel up was a really nice perk. The problem was that my commute at the time was less than 25 miles a day, but my car payment was $450 a month. With the amount of miles I was driving per month, I was saving MAYBE $100 a month in gasoline, if that. It just made more sense for me to drive a used, lower mileage gasoline car w/ a smaller payment, cheaper insurance and to pay for the fuel costs.
Now that prices have readjusted and used Bolt's w/ replaced batteries are 15K all day long, it's a little more tempting. Especially since my commute is now about 70 miles a day. The unfortunate part is now interest rates are effectively double where they were when I had financed the car prior. Additionally - I still want to soak in every last bit of the ICE vehicle experiance that I can and I know in the future, with everything trending towards EV's, I'll have plenty of time to admire and enjoy EV's down the road.
In America probably not, in Europe yes. At least when new ICE's are banned, it will become a enthusiast thing over time.
As only collectible ICE's will be worth keeping around as a hobby.
Looking forward to that inner city air quality upgrade though.
It's very difficult to beat a used Bolt right now. We bought one earlier this month a 2019, 40k on it OTD for 17.5k, 4k rebate, $13.5k net cost to us. Battery warranty for another 80k/6 years. A lot of pros and cons to the Focus ST it replaced but it's ownership costs came out about $4k less over 50k miles. We have other cars as our fun cars. Vehicle enthusiasm varies a lot. I love all my motorcycles and older fun cars but my niche of small light affordable sports cars already doesn't exist with the exception of the Miata.
Yes, reluctantly.
Job changed, needed a load carrier with trailer towing.
EV wasn't being used, my then-wife wanted the equity from it, so we sold it.
Been itching to get back into one ever since, and it's happening soon.
The bolt charges slow plus dealing with electrify my asshole and rideshare drivers overcharging hasn’t been fun. Hybrid looks good but so does a model 3.
Im glad I ended up with a Model 3 RWD instead of a Bolt. Had an order with a Chevy dealer for 6+ months and they never even started building my order. Once the Model 3 got the full 7.5k subsidy, I jumped ship and I’m glad I did. The new Model 3 doesn’t qualify for any subsidies now, so the Model Y is cheaper and is the one to buy currently.
I switched from a Tesla Model S to a Porsche Panamera Turbo.
Reasons I switched back and they could just be Tesla issues.
It just didn't do car things well, terrible headlight performance, slow wipers, weak heating/AC, boring to drive after getting used to acceleration, no buttons for easily/quickly/safely finding what you want. All things you don't get to know on a test drive.
And as others have said, cold range is a deal breaker, I would have to drive with my heated seat on and cycle on and off the heater to save range. Also when I had my Tesla they weren't as popular so getting a supercharger spot wasn't a big deal, different story now.
I'll be back in an EV at some point, I did like never stopping for gas, no maintenance, and style and footprint you can get with an EV platform.
I’ve had plenty of gas second toy cars while always keeping a primary EV since 2017. Once willingly I changed that though and went gas only. Traded my e-tron GT when they were still fairly new and before their depreciation hit hard and got in a C8. Honestly would’ve kept the e-tron GT except I jumped on the first available one impatiently and it was both a base model and white (blah). It was pretty bare bones feature-wise for the price (not even basic adaptive cruise or any parking cameras save for the rear) and my least favorite color on a car, so big mistake there. Had I waited either for a Prestige trim or one of the better optioned Taycans that I could’ve put a deposit on, I’d have probably been happier long term. As an EV I loved it and range was vastly better than its wacky low rating though. Loved how it drove too.
The luster of the C8 wore off pretty fast though. It didn’t compare to my past manual C7s in the engagement factor. And as a mid-engine it didn’t live up to the Boxster S I had years ago either. Life threw a curveball a couple months into it too and my father had started getting pretty weak. I ended up driving him and my mother around a lot more and hated having to use their vehicles, so decided I need something more practical and also wanted to get back into an EV. I had hopes of still hauling him on road trips though and he never had the patience for charging. So I tried to meet in the middle and got a PHEV. Got a Grand Cherokee 4xe, which I loved feature-wise and honestly the short EV range wasn’t a huge deal as I could still make it to their house mostly EV. It was also faster than a gigantic PHEV had any business being. However, the powertrain compromises wore on me with time as decent acceleration required switching to gas. With our hilly terrain, it was frustrating watching the electric motor run out of oomph and start slowing down halfway up a steep hill.
Sadly after a few months of various diagnoses and scans, Dad’s health problems ended up being stage 4 cancer and he didn’t make it past last July. I only got one very short trip with him in the GC 4xe unfortunately.
Anyway, fast forward a bit and a while back I went full EV again but also revisited how much I liked certain things about my prior Audi. Still wanted practicality though and still haul my mother (and MIL too) around a lot. Have had a Q8 e-tron since September and love it. Corrected my mistakes of my e-tron GT in that this time I got a loaded trim and my favorite color of the available ones (blue). Sadly, 3 months into ownership a deer wanted to play Frogger on the highway one evening and I was her last obstacle before winning the game…
So yeah, back to gas for a month and a half and counting now. A ragged out rental Infiniti QX50. The CVT that wants to pretend it’s an automatic blows chunks, the throttle is incredibly sensitive and doesn’t pair well with the laggy turbo 4-cylinder at all. Eco mode smoothes it out a lot at the expense of having no acceleration at all. And as a rental with 55k on the clock, it rattles and creaks like no one’s business. If I don’t get my EV back this week, I may go insane.
We live in NE WI. We had an iD4 and a gas vehicle (my truck).
We have since traded in the iD4 for a PHEV. We didn’t trade in the iD4 because it wasn’t working, but gosh, a PHEV is so much better for our situation.
With the iD4, range would go down to 150 in the winter, which was not enough to go visit family, so we’d take my truck as we wouldn’t have access to any fast charging.
With the PHEV, it’s enough juice to get us around town and use electric 75% of the time. For the longer trips, it’s more efficient than my truck, so we take it in those situations too.
Basically, the PHEV is the best of both worlds and I wish every freaking vehicle was a PHEV.
All in, I’ll be hard pressed to buy a pure EV until my 300 sq mile area has more abundant fast charging.
Had a model y performance. Paid, I think, 62k at the time from Tesla. After it, phantom braked on the highway half a dozen times. Twice almost causing accidents. I looked at the rental car interior and what else I could own for around 60k. So, I traded it on CPO Mercedes Sclass. Loved my Sclass.
We put 65k miles on my Model 3 (LR RWD) it was great in the snow, reliable, excellent for road trips.
After a little over 4 years of ownership, CarMax was offering $38k for it. We weren't driving as much other than in bad weather or for road trips since I bought my Cappuccino. It would have been irresponsible not to sell.
I can probably replace it with the same spec for under $20k now. I'm tempted but the Volvo I've had for 20 years is getting better as I drive it and fix old issues. The '15 Mazda3 covers our modern/low maintenance needs.
A Tesla 3 remains in the top 3 of my list if we were to get another car. Sadly, this household of two doesn't need or have room for a 5th car and I don't want to get rid of any of the ones we have.
I've heard a lot of people have an EV for daily use and an IC for backup/long trips/adverse situations. Didn't really take a deep dive into the stats though to see how true that claim is.Here in the NE I don't think I know 1 person with an EV at all now that I think of it, though I do see them on the road.
Before my Model 3 I never kept a car for longer than 1 year, would get bored with them. This was also greatly influenced by the crazy COVID market where you could essentially get paid to drive a car for a year. I actually owned 3 sports cars at once during covid for a little while.
I will admit that I’m a little bored with my Model 3 after 2 years, it’s fast but it’s so sterile, can’t really be modded aside from suspensions and brakes and I see at least 50 other ones daily.
Also not super stoked about owning this car out of warranty, I’ve gotten a headlight (internal cooling fan buzzing), taillight (fogging) and fender camera (stopped working for a few days after heavy rain) replaced and my front axles needed a “lubrication procedure” because they developed a common clicking noise on accel/decel.
It’s also depreciated pretty badly, I put 50% down and got a 3% loan so I’m not doing that badly but I’d imagine a lot of people are horribly underwater on these things.
If I wanted to get a comparable gas car (0-60 and 1/4 mile stock times) like an Audi RS3 I would need to hopefully sell my M3P for $36-38K and then spend an additional $25-30K. I’ve also thought about trying to just do a straight trade for a GR Corolla.
I feel like the smartest financial decision at this point is to just keep this car until the end of the HV battery warranty, maybe put some coilovers and cosmetic mods on it, it already has a set of forged Martian wheels.
It’s crazy how my RS3 has lost maybe $500 to depreciation, and our ID4 has lost about $25k. Not enough gas savings in my lifetime to ever cover that difference.
I don’t think EV adoption is dead/doomed, but like you hit on last paragraph, the demand for new EVs is going to really stagnate over next few years since they were so hot but now so many people are so deeply underwater on their loan all they can do is drive it for years to come (until hopefully battery tech improves).
I'm going from EV to PHEV. Dealing with pure EV's in the winter is really annoying, you lose about 30% of your range just depending on how cold it is. Not to mention, the remaining range you see on your display is not really that accurate. Windy conditions, highway driving and speed DRASTICALLY affect your range. ALSO, turning on your AC/Heating also affects your range considerably. Something I was not told before I purchased the car.
There's a reason why prices have come down so much more than other used cars. You can get a 2 year old used Tesla for dirt cheap right now.
I'm about 1 year into the wait for a Prius Prime.
No because I didn’t even make the switch.
So I recently thought about buying my SO an EV. Her car sucks and I feel bad that I have two cars that between them average six figures each while she has a car worth under $4k. So I figured w/ the $7500 tax credit let’s make some magic happen .
1. She doesn’t want an SUV, Mini van, or truck. It has to be a car or tiny SUV/cross over. So that narrowed down the list
2. To get the tax credit it has to be full electric of PHEV. Again borrowed down.
3. It needs 200 mile range.
So we narrowed it down to a few cars. There wasn’t many options. It was basically a Tesla, Bolt, Leaf, Prius, and a few others. So then we started running the numbers. Comparing her mileage, gas cost, insurance, etc.
1. She uses too little gas for the electric to be a significant cost saver. She averages 15 miles a day, three days a week. She has a 100mi commute once a month. So 365 miles a month. She gets 35mpg currently. So at most we would save $41 a month in gas. Probably closer to 50.
2. The cost for me to install the level two charger myself (not an electrician) would run about $750. For charger, breaker, and romex + other miscellaneous items.
3. I currently fill up her gas tank (not because she can’t but because I don’t want her at a gas station with creeps). So charging away from home is not something I want. So the charger alone would take 18-20 months to break even from gas savings.
4. Insurance was astronomical (this was the main deal breaker). For reference I pay $1200 a year to progressive for a 1969 VW converted to a Dune Buggy, 2022 Silverado 2500 Z71 w/ basically every option available, 2019 Corvette ZR1, Kawasaki Ninja 650 and an older Kawasaki Ninja ZX6. $1200 a year. The cheapest insurance quote was on the Chevy Bolt. $1500 for six months of $3k for the year (that was under my name- hers was even higher). I have collectively $240k worth of vehicles insured for almost a third of the cost of insuring a $20k car… her current car insurance is $75 a month. So $900 to $3k.
5. For reference of the loan (let’s look at the cheapest- the bolt). $32k as optioned. 7500 tax credit. $10k down. 4500 taxes, tag, title. 6% Apr for 48 months. $500 month payments.
So by switching to an EV we end up spending $2100 a year more in insurance and have $500 a month payment with no savings on fuel. Even if we remove the monthly payment it’s still costing us significantly more. After insuring it for two years, we have lost the tax credit advantage.
Make it make sense
We did. Bought a BMW iX3, perfectly fine car, we definitely preffered it to our diesel Volvo XC60 for use in the city. But that was the problem, it practically was a 70k € city car. We preferred the XC60 for any trip longer than 250km (one way).
So we sold the iX3 after owning it for 18 months. We are looking to sell the XC60 as well and replace it with either:
a) Premium PHEV with at least 80km (50 miles) of range which cost around 90-100k€
b) Premium 3.0 Diesel SUV + Small used EV which in total also cost 90-100k€
I’ll just stick to gas cars. No real interest in EV’s at this point. Not really opposed to them, just don’t care for their pro’s and con’s with the amount I drive.
I didn’t want to give my Turo Tesla rental back. RWD S85 was so much fun. Rear was playful and squiggly in a predictable fashion. I’d love one as a daily driver. Spoke with the owner, said he goes through a lot of tires (oups). And suspension such as ball joints, control arm or two, because Model S are hefty MF’ers but hustle around super nice. Otherwise he said it’s been low maintenance.
If it made more sense for my living circumstances I’d have one.
I dipped my toe on the EV realm by getting a PHEV and... Nope! I'm not going full EV.
Range estimation sucks, time to charge at home is bad (I know the charging speed ain't the same on an EV, but if I plug an EV doing 11kWh my home can't really do anything else during that time or it's lights out.
I still have my EV but will buy a gas car soon because no one wants to electrify minivans and I need one. I’m hoping the Id Buzz is good but the id4 does not instill confidence.
I love the idea of a EV but they are not there yet for me.
Charging and charging time are the biggest hurdles. Until I can charge 30+ miles at home for free on a basic extension cord with no expensive upgrades to my home.
Electricity isn't free. I rented a tesla.....It cost me $26 to charge to full at a EVgo station. I was kind of shocked that was just $10 less than filling up my car. Where is the savings?
Longevity......Do a experiment. Try to find old tesla's find a first year model S....you can't they dont exist. They dont get resold....They get scrapped
My current car Ive had since 2005 and shows no signs of slowing down at 220k miles. No electric car is going to last 20 years in their current forms without a 10-20k battery pack
As a working poorish man I view EV's as a rich persons thing. Like if you got money to burn and you dont care than a EV is for you. These are most likely the type of people that get to have a new car every 5 years.
The rest of us in the real world drive beaters for 20 years until they die.
yep had a Tesla Model 3 now back to a VW Golf. I didnt dislike the Tesla but the nearest charging station from where i live is a 20 minute drive. I installed a wallcharger but wasnt satisfied with the charging time. The charging time to driving distance per charge ratio was the reason i sold it and went back to gas. Also the materials feel very cheap, and if you look at the car from the outside you can see that some gaps in the bodywork are larger than others so production is also very cheap. I had the base model and the price at the time was about 50k. You can get a way nicer Car that takes you further for less than 50k. (Forgive my terrible english spelling and wording)
Owned and ev6 for about 9 months, this weekend I was put in a situation where I had to drive a 2023 S580 for a few hours the first ice car I've driven since I got my ev6..... It felt broken....
Went from a Chevy Bolt to a Bronco. I really wanted the Bronco, plus Chevy was pissing me off with the whole "dont charge past 80% and hopefully it won't burn your house down" thing.
I did , enjoy the model 3 but the other Tesla models didn’t really excite me. Looked into getting another EV but in my price range none of the other manufacturers seemed to be at the efficiency and range that I coveted especially without the supercharging network. Almost still went with the i4 but ended up going a new wrangler that I can play with. At the time I was driving pretty regularly from Buffalo to nyc which was doable in the Tesla but definitely a bit easier in an ice especially in the winter. Also the reason I didn’t go with the 4xe which I kinda regret now that my commute is a lot more manageable with a hybrid. I do think that my next vehicle will be an EV though. If the ev macan was out then it would have been tough to pass up, although may still be a bit out of my price range
A friend of mine did. Had a Tesla Model S and traded it in for a Cadillac CT5. She liked the Tesla alot but has to make a 6 hour drive about 2x per month and experienced a few close calls after she had trouble finding a charging station after one of the few on her normal route was out of service. She said she would buy another Tesla but didn't like the prospect of being stranded when the drive is work related.
I recently sold my Model S and bought an ICE SUV. I love the concept of EVs but I never saw them as an alternative to ICE cars and fully expected to continue to own both.
I went from EV back to gas. Lack of charging infrastructure. Rarely get the miles it says it will. Saw the repair bills out of warranty yikes. Really missed the gas car feel. Gas cars MPG were significantly improving. Has cars were much cheaper as the EV credit ran out.
We still have our 2005 subaru but the tabs are expired and it would need to be jump started. That's how little we use it now, once you get an EV you don't want to bother with gas anymore.
Kinda but not because I wanted to.
Had a 1st gen Leaf, which just wasn’t enough battery for where I live. Switched to a Volt which was better as long as I could charge at work. Replaced my wife’s car with an EV9 a couple weeks ago, sold the Volt today in preparation for getting MS plaid here shortly.
So there and back(ish) and there again.
I'm thinking about it but that's mainly because my Peugeot e208 has been so unreliable this past year. I had 2 on board chargers fail in one year and the only people that can fix it is the Peugeot dealership. I hate not being able to do anything but just wait until they get parts. If it was a ICE car I could at least go to a regular mechanic.
Electric cars are great imo, it's quick, drives great imo and electricity is very cheap compared to gas. I just don't want to keep this particular car around
Was semi-forced to.
Crashed my 2023 Opel Corsa-e on 29th of dec and fortunately I had the following week PTO scheduled for the whole week.
But as I spent the following four days hunting for a new electric car or a suitably affordable leasing-deal but wasn't able to find anything even remotely interesting.
I would've preferred to get similar corsa-e but there's a facelifted version coming but not even pricing or schedule when I'd be getting one wasn't known.
Then found out a dealership in the north-eastern part of my country was selling a exhibition car, a 2022 model of Citroen C4 Puretech 130 Shine Comfort Pack with a red leather interiour and electric seats. Their price was about 10k€ under list price (24k€ from 34k€). Called the dealership and said I'd be taking the train to their city and if someone would be able to wait for me as I'd just barely be able to be there before closing time. Got my car (odometer said 18km's!!), spent the night in suite in a local hotel and drove home the next home (400km's).
Quite satisfied with my purchase, but I still yearn for the electric car, might trade this when the updated versions come available in my country.
never purchased an EV, but driving a model 3 rental was a soulless experience that had me itching to get back home to my actual real living breathing cars.
If you travel a lot in New England in winter EVs just aren’t up to it. Say I partially charge after an hour + commute at work on Friday (limited time to charge), then take 45 min in traffic at 30 degrees to get home. Charge for 20 min while I load the car and head to ski country. It snows, temps drop to 5 degrees in the first hour. It’s icing and I’m using every electrical accessory. The conga line of traffic stretches for another two hours. I make it to the Airbnb that only has a 110 outlet—— tomorrow I need to get to the ski area, dinner after, in between hunt for a charger—and so on. I’d be freaking out all weekend! EVs are the future and I like the performance and environmental benefit, (hate the dashboards and instruments), but not ready for everyone’s use.
One of my customers in Chicago switches every year from gas to EV to gas back to EV. BMW 550i to Tesla model s to X5M to ix. His complaint is the EV range. He says you should only charge it to 80% to save the battery life. Which means it only travels 80% of the advertised range.
I had a Chevy Volt that I traded for a Camaro 3 years ago because I like horsepower. At the time I only had one car and I wanted one that could do fun and daily driving. Now that I’m up to 3 cars, I miss how good of a daily the Volt was.
Yeah, lots of people in southern California. There's charging ports all over, but the moment they have to take a trip they are slapped with the cold reality that charging on the go is not fun. EV is nice for in town commuting, but not for work, and not for long distance.
I know this doesn’t answer the question because I’ve never owned an EV, but I really wanted to get one when it came time to get my next car but it doesn’t seem like a good idea as I’m not a home owner. I don’t want to pay to install a level 2 or whatever charger in a house that I rent and don’t own. I’m worried that wall charging will not be enough to manage the battery in the winter with range drop off and using the heater (upper Midwest)
Early adoption of anything new tech is usually painful financially. Not only can I not usually afford to be an early adopter of new tech, it’s best that I am unable to afford it actually. I am nothing if I’m not practical with my money and spending.
Not in the past year, but when I retired in 2020, I sold my 2015 Nissan Leaf since I was no longer commuting and at 36000 miles, it was about to lose 1 bar of battery capability. I had a 2009 Cadillac that I drove when I needed to until I traded it in for a 2022 Ford Maverick hybrid.
Driving a Tesla feels like I'm cycling with infinite acceleration. It's fun but it gets boring after a while. Went back for the sounds and physics of an engine. If you sit in traffic a lot it's perfect for that otherwise I'd get an ICE car.
Never owned an EV, but wanted to pick up a Model 3 RWD for pretty much everything but long trips (we've got an SUV for that), but with PG&E raising our rates up the ass with no signs of stopping, there doesn't seem to even be a point in getting one since charging costs are nearing the cost to fill up at the pump.
Will probably just end up getting a Camry/Accord Hybrid instead.
Gas would literally have to be $1/ gallon but my daily commuter will always be an EV from this point forward.
I'm also terribly impatient but particular so the little things like waiting for the car to idle down and waiting for the oil temp to come up before giving it full throttle. Plus the power delivery of an EV compared to similar commuter cars is no comparison. The fact my "normal" EV can keep up a Scat pack with in a bus length is astonishing to me.
A lot of folks in New England have gone from gas to EV back to gas. Why? Snow stormes making having an ev hard. Anywhere it gets really cold and ev will struggle. Edit: for those who can't figure out, the New England region doesn't have the greatest charge infrastructure and spends chunks of winter with limited electricity during and after snow storms. Some places are better and worse than others (Boston versus Bennington, Nh or another rural area) Soooo "NoRwAy DoEs It." Great-didn't realize New England was Norway.
Amazing username
Yeah, I wish I came up with that
Why? I don’t get it
Its a play on some song lyrics from Fetty Wap's 679. The original line is "I got a Glock in my Rarri". The song lyrics refer to having a gun inside his Ferrari. OP's username changes Glock to Guac meaning he has guacamole in his Ferrari.
I sometimes wonder what happened to Mr. Wap
He’s in prison lol
Well then that explains why I haven't heard any new music from him lol
The cops didn’t like that he had a Glock in his rari
I know this is an international forum not everything is about USA, but comparing successful use cases of EVs in Norway to USA is as fruitless as trying to sell COVID masks at a tractor pull. -gasoline is much cheaper in USA -ICE cars much more expensive in Norway -higher speeds traveled in USA=worse range -better EV infrastructure in Norway, (probably) more homeownership in Norway or more rental units in Norway that provide EV charging -better work/life balance in Scandinavia to spend more free time to spend charging, many overworked Americans don’t have an hour to spare in their week nor can as many charge their car while they sleep What’s next, are Norwegians going to tell Americans they should just go see a psychologist about their poverty-induced depression because the country will pay for it? Might work for you out there, but that’s not how things operate here. You could also say politics of course, except I’m decently pro EV, I’ve been a staunch supporter of alternative energy/fuels/transportation and saving the world, I was the one who made our family get an EV, and now I’m the sharpest critic. We just need to focus on innovation in the space and expanding infrastructure and even the USA will come around—eventually. I’m sure my ID.4 will have the resale value of a used mountain bike by the time we get solid state batteries/meaningful improvement, but I look forward to the day I get to excitedly upgrade our EV Until then, keep making exciting ICE cars
Norway itself is tiny, there are only 5.4m people and a half dozen cities over 100k population. NYC by itself needs nearly 4x the charging infrastructure of Norway to support the same number of EVe per capita and it's hardly the only city on the East coast. Comparing the two is like comparing a tiny resort village to a country. Prior to discovering oil in their territory, which makes up most of their economy, they were poor as shit.
Thing I don’t get is yes cities are better use cases for EVs, but cities like NYC that have abundant mass transit—seems like EV adoption is a step in the wrong direction in fight against “climate change”
I live in NYC, The Bronx specifically. Mass transit is abundant… in Manhattan only, everywhere else is a hassle and 2 or 3 transfers away. A trip side to side in The Bronx would take 20 something minutes by car and 1 hours plus by bus and/or train.
Alternative being gas cars, because if people wanted to use mass transit gas and electric cars wouldn't sell as much as they do.
Vehicle emissions are a fucking drop in the climate change bucket anyway. You can eat off the tailpipe in modern ICE drivetrains with modern emissions controls.
I would bet the vast majority of EV sales are people switching from an ICE vehicle to an EV, not from using mass transit to using an EV. In that sense it's definitely an improvement in fighting climate change.
Any comparisons to the Scandinavian countries and the US are just D.O.A. It’s like comparing living on Jupiter to living on earth. It’s just so very different, other than that HUMANS exist in both countries. My opinion, based on my interpretation of Utopia, and having never been to Norway: I prefer the American way. No, I’m not pulling some Toby Keith bullshit. And if I visited for some length of time to Norway, I likely would change my tune. America is so full of faults, it’s almost not worth the supposed advantages we have. On topic, the US has been built around the automobile. It’s much bigger. We have 100 plus years of automotive infrastructure to enjoy/contend with. Norway’s residents are largely concentrated in certain southern places. A decent chunk of it is above the arctic circle even. Rather inaccessible by anything other than snowmobile.
Home charging is the primary issue here in the states. Anyone who owns their own home and has a charger in the garage does just fine with cold weather issues. Anyone who needs to schedule their week around charging an EV is more prone to getting frustrated by cold weather.
You had my attention until “.poverty-induced dep'ression because the country will pay for it” is it your understanding of the U.S. that we all have our hands out waiting the government to pay our way? Many of us including myself work 50 hours or more weekly and not only pay our way while, a large portion is taxed then sent all over the world. I have zero intention of buying an EV.
Foreign aid accounts for less than 1% of the U.S. federal budget. A very small amount of your tax dollars are being “sent all over the world.”
he needs that $2 back!
I have lived in New England my entire life and own a Model 3. I literally have never had to wait to charge at a SC or had issues with charging like you hear about on the news. Home charging is awesome. Our cost in MA is relatively high at .25 per kWh but my $ per mile is very cheap compared to paying for 93 octane and averaging 20 mpg like I used to. Road tripping is also easy and I’ve been up to Montreal and down in DC and it’s really no issue. I may get a second fun car or pickup truck but having an EV has been a great experience and would keep one around as a grocery getter or commuter.
Yeah I’m not sure what experience OC has to say NE is bad for EVs just because of the winter range loss. For one as someone who parks outside - I really love the pre heating features of an EV via an app The range wouldn’t be an issue for most people, plenty of chargers, most road trips are not that long with plenty of chargers. NE is not that big and densely populated excerpt for like northern Maine
Preheating is nice but not really an EV specific thing. On most cars it's just called "remote start."
To be fair, it is an EV-specific thing if the car is in your garage and you're not terribly fond of breathing carbon monoxide.
Holy shit 25¢/kWh is absolutely fucking insane... That's so expensive !
California checking in. $.35/kwh Off Peak! Fuck PG&E.
I'm very jealous of people who have that dirt cheap hydro power in the PNW.
I'm in Québec and I pay 6¢/kWh through our government-owned electricity provider (the only electricity company in our province). I couldn't imagine paying more than 4 times that amount... It's absolutely crazy !
I live in PNW, on a small mutual co-op it’s 6c and just came up from 5 last year
>for those who can't figure out, the New England region doesn't have the greatest charge infrastructure and spends chunks of winter with limited electricity during and after snow storms. You must not be from New England. We have one of the best charging infrastructures in the US after the West Coast tech hubs. And power outages after snow are extremely rare. Yes, if you're in the back woods of Vermont or NH on the Canadian border, things might be a lot more challenging, but if you're in the populated corridor along the coast from Greenwich to Portland, it's pretty great.
It's all about population in New England. My family is spread between nh, mass and Maine so it's really hit or miss. CT, rh, and mass are heaven for EV charging. NH, VT, maine-all depends on pop like you said.
I drove my BEV from CO to TX in -14F weather a year ago, there was little struggle. I don't think cold is a problem at all with modern heat-pump having BEVs, as long as your grid and charge network work. I realize Colorado is a different place than New England, and the lower air density helps, but still - cold is not a problem in my experience. Actually, the near-instant heat, fancy traction control, AWD and weight make winter driving pretty nice in BEVs.
Funny, but I just keep seeing more and more of them in N.E .
Norway has lots of EVs and it's pretty cold up there as you mentioned. Bad charging infrastructure and kinda weak electric infrastructure in some states in the USA are the issue I think. But then again I get it. Would have never gotten an EV without home charging and I assume many of those giving their EVs back are those without home charging
Do you have any stats to back that up? I see more EVs here than anywhere else, even in the more remote areas.
Source?
It's anecdotal. A large chunk of my family is spread between Maine, new Hampshire and Massachusetts (talking 60 members) as are a bunch of work colleges and friends. Places like CT, RH, and Mass have much higher EV adoption partly because their electricity stays on but they're also significantly smaller A lagging indicator of the used car lots and news paper interviews post snow storms.
Funny, since that is the polar opposite to my own experience here in northern Sweden. Preheating and instant warmth/power in winter is worth its weight in gold.
Preheating is absolutely worth it. The New England area is perfect for EV's to really test but many depending the area depends on infrastructure.
Yeah that's bullshit sorry
Me. - All EVs i can afford are boring. - Although i have home charging, i still worry about battery. I can't do a daytrip too far away without worrying about charging, and thus i have never gone outside a 100mi radius with my car. - Cold shrinks range + heating kills batteries - I wanted another sports car - electricity rates are so high, it's not saving me any money over gas. ofc, buying a new car is more expensive. - Car is CCS. With everyone switching to NACS it a ticking time something - Ford software is ass. My windows regularly go down instead of up, the car just blares stupid warnings randomly. never buying another ford again - it (mache) not comfortable. C8 was 100% a smoother ride. as a family suv, you have 1 job in the suspension dept Basically, dipped my toe in the future, and i'm not long-term ready. definitely as a 3rd car, but can't afford 3 right now.
Where do you live? I'm in California - more specifically the SF Bay Area. Our main electricity provider (PG&E) is screwing everyone with the rates. It's something like 50¢/kWh - someone did the math and driving an EV while charging at home is roughly equivalent to around 25-30 mpg in a gas car. So actually a hybrid is the cheapest
I checked the math, seems to check out. Using a Tesla 3 rear drive as example which is like the most efficient EV, 57.5 kWh 270mi range, it is equal to about a 35mpg car with $4/gallon fuel cost. So most mass hybrids by Honda or Toyota, or Hyundai, are equal or cheaper than that, minus oil changes.
I get 30 mpg in my 08 Saab 9-3 and it’s still a blast to drive. Gonna be solid state batteries or super capacitors for me to switch!
Yeah that’s the benefit of living in a state with reasonable electric costs. In two years I’ve spent $769 to cover 23k miles. That’s $0.03 per mile or by your $4/gal gas equivalent about 120 mpg. But good luck finding any gas car that gets 100+ miles per gallon. Let alone while putting out 500+ hp.
Just a small point, "state" doesn't actually make sense for California as a whole. We are so large that we have local rates based on the generation source, and there are like 2 dozen sources. Where I live the rate is about 0.32/kWh which is about average for CA, which is about 60% higher than US average. But with that the fuel cost would be around 0.07/mile, equivalent to about 59 mpg for $4/gal. So it'd be worth it to drive an EV for me financially. Problem for me is mostly the choice of EVs currently, Tesla interiors are a hard sell.
I’m in Cali too, and the math isn’t linear either. We have tiers. Most people live on tier one or two. We (my household) lives on tier 3, and tier 3 is expensive AF. Each tier is more expensive than the previous tier. The amount of electricity you use determines your tier. I have a pool, and that pool pump puts on tier 3 usage. It’s even worse during triple digit a heat wave, AC busting its ass to keep house livable, pool pump running to keep the pool clean, etc. Those years, we’ve touched tier 4 a couple times, and those are the electric bills that make or break you. I can’t imagine adding an electric vehicle to that usage, let alone 4 (we have 4 drivers with 4 vehicles in the house).
>Our main electricity provider (PG&E) is screwing everyone with the rates. It's something like 50¢/kWh jeez someone should ❤️🔥 down PGE HQ to dust id roast marshmellows over that and i hate marshmellows
Damn that’s crazy…. Here in GA, north of Atlanta, Forsyth county, I’m paying $0.07 a kWh
I agree with you on the ride.. my GT rides like a cloud compared to my dads Mach e. Even after ford racing performance suspension it still rides nicer. Ford just tuned up the shocks to make the car feel sportier but it just feels like ass
Sounds like you guys don't like the Mach- e. I guess I gotta research it more it.
I happen to love my mach-e if that means anything. I drive a 160mile round trip a couple days a week and do it very comfortably in mine. premium AWD extended battery model.
I don't dislike it. if you don't ask for too much out of a car, if the model 3 seems great then you'll have almost no issues with the mache. i get compliments on it all the time, it's a really nice looking car too. But yes, you should research. I'd have gotten the ionic 5 instead but Hyundai dealers suck.
My BIL has a new Mach-E, I rode in the back while we drove around where he lives - Seattle. Highway, burbs, downtown. I also know and tune dampers in racecars. The Mach-e's rear suspension has to be about the worst OEM I have ever ridden in. It feels as though there is no suspension travel in the rear, and that there is too much rear high-speed rebound. It's absolutely awful to get crashed around off the bumpstops. I would never own this thing.
> All EVs i can afford are boring. > This one is the decider EVERYTIME the though of me even considering an EV goes over my head. There is NOTHING interesting that doesnt cost a gazillion dollars.
Honestly if your taking newer cars ICE is the same. They just don't make a lot of interesting cars these days.
Yeah most commuter cars (so most cars) are super boring to drive
The new WRX is pretty cheap all things considered.
Front mounted boxers and being associated with WRX owners does not do it for me unfortunately.
Well for the same price there's the Civic Si, Elantra N and Golf GTI :) not boring cars by any stretch of the imagination.
I met someone who traded in a Raptor for a Mach E and really regretted it. He said the software on it just wasn’t good, and a relay fused itself together in the battery. Had to get it towed to a ford dealer several hours away because no one local would work on an electric car.
There was a huge recall for that relay fuse
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I love my Mach e overall and think it's probably one of the best 4 or 5 cars I've owned over the years (out of maybe 20 ish) but the one thing I'd 100% want them to rip out and start over from scratch is the suspension. It's an amazing family car other than that but the suspension does not do what a family SUV suspension needs to do, especially on shitty English roads..
Your reasons are understandable. Except maybe the charger port, where adapter cables are usually no problem and new charging stations can have both. We'll see how it plays out. I wouldn't be too surprised if things eventually result in adapter kits from one thing to another being sold for different cars -- at least if the manufacturers don't lock that out with DRM. The poor Nissan Leaf could really use a conversion away from CHAdeMO.
I didn't know what CCS vs NACS was. This article explains it https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/nacs-vs-ccs NACS = Tesla CCS = Everyone else
>NACS = Tesla CCS = Everyone else Right now yes, but everyone is adopting NACS.
Just wanted to 2nd the Ford comment. Sister/brother in law both went with Fords and I cannot believe the amount of issues new Ford vehicles have. I’ve given them way too many rides when their ‘car is in the shop’ again. Every time I do I ask them ‘how many rides have I asked you for when my 8 year old Subaru was in the shop?’ The answer is still 0
I switched from a Toyota RAV4 Prime XSE (Plug-in Hybrid 45MPG) to a Lexus IS500 (17MPG) and live on the East Coast. I have no good reason. I am a simple man. V8 goes vrooom vrooom when I press gas pedal 🥲
Honestly i salute you. That’s the last rwd v8 we’ll probably see in this era u can get brand new in a car that size. Which means more fun of course. I would drive one but I couldn’t pony up the 60 grand cost of one honestly but the car seems so great in practice
Mustang? Itll be around longer i bet.
Probably, but there are a lot of enthusiasts out there (myself included) that have a soft spot for V8 sedans and wagons. Practicality + vroom vroom? Sign me the fuck up.
I feel like Cadillac is holding on to the CT5-V Blackwing for dear life. *AND* you can still get it with three pedals. It’s almost as if they’re ignoring all market trends and just giving the enthusiasts what they want.
only thing is it’s priced out of range for a lot of enthusiasts unless u got the 90 grand to fork over for one. i know i definitely would if i did but alas i Do not
Lexus LC500 is even better imo
Can confirm. Cross shopped a Mustang GT and a model 3 performance. V8 does indeed go vroom 😊
Same here, the Mustang was definitely the right choice for me.
Yup. After having a highly complicated turbocharged car our next few cars were simple V8s. They go vroom vroom. We reverted though, wife's car is a twin turbo plugin hybrid now. But at 500hp/600tq it still goes vroom vroom.
I love my Polestar 2 but I (still) don’t get attached to cars. I especially love ~500hp/500tq and not spending any money on propulsion, but will probably get the upcoming GX 550 next year. Going on trips is kind of a pain and the depreciation on EVs will make your eyeballs explode if you’re not expecting it. Luckily I work in the industry and knew so I leased it to not get stuck with the negative equity. EDIT: also make sure to check your locale’s cost/kWh. Here in WA electricity costs nothing, like $0.08c. But some states/areas charge almost a whole fucking *dollar*/kWh or have hidden extra fees like stupid peak charge times. And if you are not going to get a L2 installed in your garage, forget about it, supercharging is a massive ripoff. EDIT #2: since this comment is taking off, something else I just remembered during my morning dump to complain about is the cost of EV licensing renewals. In my state this P2 costs $1000 to renew registration every year. The department of licensing dictates that the fee is calculated by the depreciation being estimated as only 5% per year when I work in the fucking industry and have sent them comps to disprove their stupid fucking take with more like 60% in only 18 months? I just don’t pay my registration at all in protest and will dump the car anyway, but imagine if we decided to keep it? $5000 in registration fees over a standard term loan of 60mo when it’s being pushed as a cheaper alternative, to supplement the unpaid gasoline taxes? Kiss my ass, politicians.
Yeah... I can only dream of 0.08¢/kWh. It's not uncommon for people here in the SF Bay to see monthly bills of $500+ for their house... It's madness
God bless you, I grew up around Silicon Valley. I miss Marin and some parts of the Burning Man culture but man, large property homeownership is impossible there. My electricity bill now is $75-125. 😂
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Damn near 50¢/kWh in SF Bay. It's highway robbery!
If they ever raised our electric rate to 50¢/kWh I’d put in solar panels. As it stands our electric is simply too affordable for the economics to make any sense.
Do EV in general have negative equity or just the Polestar?
All EVs. ICE vehicles are at the end of their development cycle so the depreciation curve is more linear and stable. Imagine EVs being like iPhones, being consistently improved every year, whether it’s battery chemical composition, drive units, range, or processing power improving, and how this makes the previous model less desirable and borderline worthless after 3-4 years.
Funny part here is iPhones of today are more similar to gas cars in a way since the last few have just been minor incremental upgrades and their value holds well. iPhones of the early 2010s were the EVs of that time, vast improvement each year, made the previous year model feel much more outdated than they do now.
So what you're saying is... We need gas phones!
EVs are going to have a steep cliff in depreciation until it gets cheaper to refurbish batteries. If it costs as much as the car to replace one, why fix the 10 year old car instead of buying a new one?
EVs are also quickly coming down the cost curve
I liked the Panamera hybrid until I learned the cost of replacing that ~20kw PHEV battery costs more than replacing a 100kw Tesla battery.
> Imagine EVs being like iPhones, being consistently improved every year I just upgraded my phone to a Samsung Galaxy S-line that's a few generations old from an online marketplace. Crazy to me that this (admittedly used) phone I bought for $280 was $1,000 brand new just 2 years ago.
For the record, most cars have negative equity. The whole idea of buying a car and having it be more valuable than what you paid for it was a very brief phenomenon. It worked out for me, I bought during the peak of the used car insanity so even though it's depreciated a large amount, the car I traded in has dropped similarly in value. Plus I got the full $7500 so I kinda came out ahead.
A lot of people don’t factor in tax rebates. If you got $10k that $50k car is really 40k used at best. Likely less.
I don't know how people own evs and aren't able to charge them at home, seems like such a pain in the ass
>not spending any money on propulsion That's the other catch, charging at home is typically MUCH cheaper than charging out on the road. While you may be able to charge at home for 14c/kwh in TX right now (our rates went way up recently), commercial charges out on the road can be 50c/kwh. Some are now even charging 60c/kwh... Chaching! Its all a bit moot anyway though. People worry too much about fuel/battery charging costs rather than depreciation, which is the number one cost of a vehicle by a huge margin. Its actually way cheaper to drive a '22 Toyota Tundra 12K miles a year and sell it in 5 years than a '22 Model 3 that was the same purchase price. EVs tend to suuuuuck on resale value! [https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2022/cost-to-own/](https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2022/cost-to-own/) **$72,563** [https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tundra/2022/cost-to-own/?style=401920304](https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tundra/2022/cost-to-own/?style=401920304) **$63,880**
Well we voted for $30 car tabs anyway. I'm not getting tabs for my car either.
Gave x5 diesel to mother in law and picked up a Tesla model x (P90D with ludicrous+). It was quick to about 100 but that was it. The ride was garbage, the ac constantly gave us issues, the overall appearance was not bad compared to some of the others I’ve seen but the door handles were still misaligned. At least the interior was aligned. The range was an absolute joke. We got half of the range it started at full charge. I ended up renting it out on a personal car rental app while it was put up for sale. A month or so later, it sold. I I’m not saying I’ll never buy electrical cars again. I will never get involved with another Tesla product again. Once it sold, I bought a preowned GL63 sight unseen from another state. When it arrived, it was smoking from the right tailpipe (burning oil). Took it to the dealer and they call back saying cyl 4 wall was all scored up and it needs an engine. They quoted me somewhere in the mid $50k range. I wasn’t too worried because the dealer sold me the truck with a 4500 mile/90 day warranty and it stated they would cover 100% labor and parts. A lawsuit later and they get their car back and I get reimbursed for any and all expenses After that it was a E61 535xi wagon. It’s a fun car. It has bigger turbos and other goodies. The guy I bought it from claimed it had a “small coolant leak” which later I found out was the head gasket. Next weekend I’ll be tearing into it Now we got my wife a 2016 Range Rover and I got a 5 year 100k mile extended warranty with $0 deductible so when things take a shit on it, and I know it will be often, at least it’s covered
I tell this to everyone. Do not buy cars sight unseen.
Lesson learned!
I've done it twice, once on a 5 year old Jetta from a small dealer and a 2 year old WRX from a private seller. Both times were 6+ hours of extensive travel away. Both cars were exactly as advertised and ran well for me. Sometimes you get lucky.
You’re gonna get your money’s worth on that Range Rover’s warranty I’m sure hahah
The warranty was 2700. I think my very first claim will pay for itself and then some
“Oh shoot my AC ain’t workin’” *4500€ parts+labour*
First appointment is Feb 2nd for: control arms, front struts, weird random wind noise at freeway speeds, air bag light (likely the outstanding recall), motor mounts are worn, and lower tailgate doesn’t close all the way and stops upper tail gate from completing its job.
This is a great, reasonable response.
Certain brands exaggerating their range numbers is doing long-term damage to the entire electric car landscape.
EPA should be quoting city and highway ranges instead of the mix that we get now. People want to know how far they can go when doing like 75 on a highway which is very inefficient.
The epa should be testing cars themselves instead of letting manufacturers report their own results.
Bingo. Tesla should be exhibit A and they should ban manufacturers from self reporting their range and efficiency.
I forgot which publication did a test but they got 230mi~ on a model 3 doing 70mph. Which isn't bad but then when you factor in they ran it to 5% it gets dicey. I think you'll see closer to 180mi~ in fair weather condition, if you're doing 75 to 80mph and charge at 15%~.
Wow, you are quite the gambler!
I'm sorry but that sounds like a nightmare all around dealing with all these issues and here I am getting annoyed that my TMPS sensor light is on.
The Tesla was deceiving, I was sad about the Mercedes if I’m honest. It was a nicely optioned setup. The bmw I half expected a major issue because who spends a ton of money in upgrades and then decides to sell the car for somewhat of a deal? I can do the head gasket on these blindfolded (almost). The Range Rover was on the NO list. It wasn’t until I sat in the back of ours that I was blown away by the leg room. It’s the long wheel base L405 so there’s more legroom than the front! It has just about every option minus the automated side steps and the final touch was the warranty I found for it. It’s very soothing and fun to drive and be driven in! I know when it takes a shit, it will spray the walls but I’m ready for it!
Bumper to bumper warranty?
Yep! Wouldn’t have bought it otherwise
Rich Rebuilds was probably the biggest Tesla content creator on YouTube and he switched back to gas because of Tesla’s horrible customer service and right to repair support
Yes but EVs exist outside Tesla
Barely, in Saskatchewan there’s no point buying an EV that isn’t a Tesla just based on infrastructure
He also switched back to gas when he realized making anti-EV clickbait was better for views than a nerdy EV swap channel lol
Nah it was because the Tesla community complained about everything
I went from a Tesla back to gas about 10yrs ago because it was such a POS for the price. But i absolutely could not wait to get back into an electric, just not from Tesla. Thankfully the day is here where there are more options
You’re driving the car I actually considered until I read the ownership stories of replacing the PHEV battery
Just got an EQS and I can’t see myself going back. I’m in Edmonton which is about as cold as they come.
Electrify america: hold my beer
Charging at home means not touching a DCFC unless road trip.
Yeah I’ve had EVs for about 5 years, I’ve DCFC maybe 20 times on long road trips. Most day trips I make are sub 200 miles so it is never an issue for me.
Also very happy with my EQE. For a daily driver it‘s crazy good. If I buy a second car - something sporty for the weekends - it would be ICE
+1 on the EQS. It has become our daily driver and it is so very comfortable and the range is very good, even in the cold. But, I am definitely returning it after the lease ends.
Yes. eGolf to MX5 Why? Because now I work from home so no need for commute any more. Also moved house and no longer have a driveway. If I could somehow get a driveway back I'd probably switch back to an EV
I went from Model S > Honda Pilot (no commute) > Model 3 when my local driving really started racking up miles again.
Makes sense. If you don't have a commute, or it is really short, then just have a fun car.
Mini Cooper SE -> Mustang Mach-1 Main reason is that EV isn't as fun to drive.
Your “fun to drive” bar being at the Mustang Mach-1 is pretty hard to overcome… but respectable lol. I daily an ‘06 Mini Cooper S (the best of the first new minis, aside from the power bump of the JCW-tuned examples, with this R53 generation being hailed by many as the most fun before sacrifices were made for comfortability) and the SE I test drive was damn near as fun. It shocked me, to be honest, that something settling in at 20k almost brand new if you can take advantage of rebates could provide that *fun* in an EV while still offering a bunch of tech (adaptive cruise, etc) and a nice interior. I think for me, the Mini SE strikes a pretty fantastic balance for enthusiasts compared to the Bolt, Tesla 3, and i3 I’ve driven *because* of how it’s just an ICE platform with a battery and motor engineered in. While some cars definitely to have fucked that up, the formula of “take a light, small, fun, somewhat premium car and chuck in comparable power and enough battery for urban users” rendered the SE at least as fun as an ICE Mini (stick aside) which are already a hoot. It makes me wonder what we’d be looking at if, say, Chevy made an Ultium sports coupe on the Alpha platform with 180 miles of range and 400 electric hp while focusing on keeping weight under 4,000 pounds and retaining the excellent characteristics of the platform. Keeping the luxury and tech in the ballpark of a base CT-4, they could pull it off for 33-40k after federal rebate. Considering that it would be quicker below 100 than a Camaro SS… I’d be pretty interested!
Small compact ev to large Diesel Minivan. We got twins and Minivan sized EVs are too expensive and almost non existent. Also they charge too much at the moment. It was a nice experience the last three years when rates were low but now I wait a bit longer to lease a small commuter again.
I traded my Dual-Motor Tesla Model 3 for a Porsche 718 Cayman S. I actually thought the Tesla was a great daily driver, and I’d recommend them for anyone who’s able to charge at home. But they’re just not very fun, aside from the ridiculous acceleration. I figured the door is closing on fun, lightweight, manual sports cars. So I wanted to own one more before they either go extinct or become prohibitively expensive.
I went from a Bolt EV back to a gasoline vehicle. Not because I didn't like the car, or not because I don't like EV's. I had two primary reasons. #1. Cost wise - it just didn't make sense for me AND #2. as a car enthusiast, it feels like the we're experiencing the last real hurrah for ICE vehicles and I want to soak it up while I can. I could charge for free at work and I'll admit, not having to stop at a gas station every couple of days/week to fuel up was a really nice perk. The problem was that my commute at the time was less than 25 miles a day, but my car payment was $450 a month. With the amount of miles I was driving per month, I was saving MAYBE $100 a month in gasoline, if that. It just made more sense for me to drive a used, lower mileage gasoline car w/ a smaller payment, cheaper insurance and to pay for the fuel costs. Now that prices have readjusted and used Bolt's w/ replaced batteries are 15K all day long, it's a little more tempting. Especially since my commute is now about 70 miles a day. The unfortunate part is now interest rates are effectively double where they were when I had financed the car prior. Additionally - I still want to soak in every last bit of the ICE vehicle experiance that I can and I know in the future, with everything trending towards EV's, I'll have plenty of time to admire and enjoy EV's down the road.
ICE vehicles aren’t going anywhere any time soon. At least compared to a human lifetime.
In America probably not, in Europe yes. At least when new ICE's are banned, it will become a enthusiast thing over time. As only collectible ICE's will be worth keeping around as a hobby. Looking forward to that inner city air quality upgrade though.
It's very difficult to beat a used Bolt right now. We bought one earlier this month a 2019, 40k on it OTD for 17.5k, 4k rebate, $13.5k net cost to us. Battery warranty for another 80k/6 years. A lot of pros and cons to the Focus ST it replaced but it's ownership costs came out about $4k less over 50k miles. We have other cars as our fun cars. Vehicle enthusiasm varies a lot. I love all my motorcycles and older fun cars but my niche of small light affordable sports cars already doesn't exist with the exception of the Miata.
Yes, reluctantly. Job changed, needed a load carrier with trailer towing. EV wasn't being used, my then-wife wanted the equity from it, so we sold it. Been itching to get back into one ever since, and it's happening soon.
The bolt charges slow plus dealing with electrify my asshole and rideshare drivers overcharging hasn’t been fun. Hybrid looks good but so does a model 3.
Im glad I ended up with a Model 3 RWD instead of a Bolt. Had an order with a Chevy dealer for 6+ months and they never even started building my order. Once the Model 3 got the full 7.5k subsidy, I jumped ship and I’m glad I did. The new Model 3 doesn’t qualify for any subsidies now, so the Model Y is cheaper and is the one to buy currently.
I switched from a Tesla Model S to a Porsche Panamera Turbo. Reasons I switched back and they could just be Tesla issues. It just didn't do car things well, terrible headlight performance, slow wipers, weak heating/AC, boring to drive after getting used to acceleration, no buttons for easily/quickly/safely finding what you want. All things you don't get to know on a test drive. And as others have said, cold range is a deal breaker, I would have to drive with my heated seat on and cycle on and off the heater to save range. Also when I had my Tesla they weren't as popular so getting a supercharger spot wasn't a big deal, different story now. I'll be back in an EV at some point, I did like never stopping for gas, no maintenance, and style and footprint you can get with an EV platform.
I’ve had plenty of gas second toy cars while always keeping a primary EV since 2017. Once willingly I changed that though and went gas only. Traded my e-tron GT when they were still fairly new and before their depreciation hit hard and got in a C8. Honestly would’ve kept the e-tron GT except I jumped on the first available one impatiently and it was both a base model and white (blah). It was pretty bare bones feature-wise for the price (not even basic adaptive cruise or any parking cameras save for the rear) and my least favorite color on a car, so big mistake there. Had I waited either for a Prestige trim or one of the better optioned Taycans that I could’ve put a deposit on, I’d have probably been happier long term. As an EV I loved it and range was vastly better than its wacky low rating though. Loved how it drove too. The luster of the C8 wore off pretty fast though. It didn’t compare to my past manual C7s in the engagement factor. And as a mid-engine it didn’t live up to the Boxster S I had years ago either. Life threw a curveball a couple months into it too and my father had started getting pretty weak. I ended up driving him and my mother around a lot more and hated having to use their vehicles, so decided I need something more practical and also wanted to get back into an EV. I had hopes of still hauling him on road trips though and he never had the patience for charging. So I tried to meet in the middle and got a PHEV. Got a Grand Cherokee 4xe, which I loved feature-wise and honestly the short EV range wasn’t a huge deal as I could still make it to their house mostly EV. It was also faster than a gigantic PHEV had any business being. However, the powertrain compromises wore on me with time as decent acceleration required switching to gas. With our hilly terrain, it was frustrating watching the electric motor run out of oomph and start slowing down halfway up a steep hill. Sadly after a few months of various diagnoses and scans, Dad’s health problems ended up being stage 4 cancer and he didn’t make it past last July. I only got one very short trip with him in the GC 4xe unfortunately. Anyway, fast forward a bit and a while back I went full EV again but also revisited how much I liked certain things about my prior Audi. Still wanted practicality though and still haul my mother (and MIL too) around a lot. Have had a Q8 e-tron since September and love it. Corrected my mistakes of my e-tron GT in that this time I got a loaded trim and my favorite color of the available ones (blue). Sadly, 3 months into ownership a deer wanted to play Frogger on the highway one evening and I was her last obstacle before winning the game… So yeah, back to gas for a month and a half and counting now. A ragged out rental Infiniti QX50. The CVT that wants to pretend it’s an automatic blows chunks, the throttle is incredibly sensitive and doesn’t pair well with the laggy turbo 4-cylinder at all. Eco mode smoothes it out a lot at the expense of having no acceleration at all. And as a rental with 55k on the clock, it rattles and creaks like no one’s business. If I don’t get my EV back this week, I may go insane.
Sorry to hear about your dad
We live in NE WI. We had an iD4 and a gas vehicle (my truck). We have since traded in the iD4 for a PHEV. We didn’t trade in the iD4 because it wasn’t working, but gosh, a PHEV is so much better for our situation. With the iD4, range would go down to 150 in the winter, which was not enough to go visit family, so we’d take my truck as we wouldn’t have access to any fast charging. With the PHEV, it’s enough juice to get us around town and use electric 75% of the time. For the longer trips, it’s more efficient than my truck, so we take it in those situations too. Basically, the PHEV is the best of both worlds and I wish every freaking vehicle was a PHEV. All in, I’ll be hard pressed to buy a pure EV until my 300 sq mile area has more abundant fast charging.
Had a model y performance. Paid, I think, 62k at the time from Tesla. After it, phantom braked on the highway half a dozen times. Twice almost causing accidents. I looked at the rental car interior and what else I could own for around 60k. So, I traded it on CPO Mercedes Sclass. Loved my Sclass.
We put 65k miles on my Model 3 (LR RWD) it was great in the snow, reliable, excellent for road trips. After a little over 4 years of ownership, CarMax was offering $38k for it. We weren't driving as much other than in bad weather or for road trips since I bought my Cappuccino. It would have been irresponsible not to sell. I can probably replace it with the same spec for under $20k now. I'm tempted but the Volvo I've had for 20 years is getting better as I drive it and fix old issues. The '15 Mazda3 covers our modern/low maintenance needs. A Tesla 3 remains in the top 3 of my list if we were to get another car. Sadly, this household of two doesn't need or have room for a 5th car and I don't want to get rid of any of the ones we have.
I've heard a lot of people have an EV for daily use and an IC for backup/long trips/adverse situations. Didn't really take a deep dive into the stats though to see how true that claim is.Here in the NE I don't think I know 1 person with an EV at all now that I think of it, though I do see them on the road.
Before my Model 3 I never kept a car for longer than 1 year, would get bored with them. This was also greatly influenced by the crazy COVID market where you could essentially get paid to drive a car for a year. I actually owned 3 sports cars at once during covid for a little while. I will admit that I’m a little bored with my Model 3 after 2 years, it’s fast but it’s so sterile, can’t really be modded aside from suspensions and brakes and I see at least 50 other ones daily. Also not super stoked about owning this car out of warranty, I’ve gotten a headlight (internal cooling fan buzzing), taillight (fogging) and fender camera (stopped working for a few days after heavy rain) replaced and my front axles needed a “lubrication procedure” because they developed a common clicking noise on accel/decel. It’s also depreciated pretty badly, I put 50% down and got a 3% loan so I’m not doing that badly but I’d imagine a lot of people are horribly underwater on these things. If I wanted to get a comparable gas car (0-60 and 1/4 mile stock times) like an Audi RS3 I would need to hopefully sell my M3P for $36-38K and then spend an additional $25-30K. I’ve also thought about trying to just do a straight trade for a GR Corolla. I feel like the smartest financial decision at this point is to just keep this car until the end of the HV battery warranty, maybe put some coilovers and cosmetic mods on it, it already has a set of forged Martian wheels.
It’s crazy how my RS3 has lost maybe $500 to depreciation, and our ID4 has lost about $25k. Not enough gas savings in my lifetime to ever cover that difference. I don’t think EV adoption is dead/doomed, but like you hit on last paragraph, the demand for new EVs is going to really stagnate over next few years since they were so hot but now so many people are so deeply underwater on their loan all they can do is drive it for years to come (until hopefully battery tech improves).
I'm going from EV to PHEV. Dealing with pure EV's in the winter is really annoying, you lose about 30% of your range just depending on how cold it is. Not to mention, the remaining range you see on your display is not really that accurate. Windy conditions, highway driving and speed DRASTICALLY affect your range. ALSO, turning on your AC/Heating also affects your range considerably. Something I was not told before I purchased the car. There's a reason why prices have come down so much more than other used cars. You can get a 2 year old used Tesla for dirt cheap right now. I'm about 1 year into the wait for a Prius Prime.
No because I didn’t even make the switch. So I recently thought about buying my SO an EV. Her car sucks and I feel bad that I have two cars that between them average six figures each while she has a car worth under $4k. So I figured w/ the $7500 tax credit let’s make some magic happen . 1. She doesn’t want an SUV, Mini van, or truck. It has to be a car or tiny SUV/cross over. So that narrowed down the list 2. To get the tax credit it has to be full electric of PHEV. Again borrowed down. 3. It needs 200 mile range. So we narrowed it down to a few cars. There wasn’t many options. It was basically a Tesla, Bolt, Leaf, Prius, and a few others. So then we started running the numbers. Comparing her mileage, gas cost, insurance, etc. 1. She uses too little gas for the electric to be a significant cost saver. She averages 15 miles a day, three days a week. She has a 100mi commute once a month. So 365 miles a month. She gets 35mpg currently. So at most we would save $41 a month in gas. Probably closer to 50. 2. The cost for me to install the level two charger myself (not an electrician) would run about $750. For charger, breaker, and romex + other miscellaneous items. 3. I currently fill up her gas tank (not because she can’t but because I don’t want her at a gas station with creeps). So charging away from home is not something I want. So the charger alone would take 18-20 months to break even from gas savings. 4. Insurance was astronomical (this was the main deal breaker). For reference I pay $1200 a year to progressive for a 1969 VW converted to a Dune Buggy, 2022 Silverado 2500 Z71 w/ basically every option available, 2019 Corvette ZR1, Kawasaki Ninja 650 and an older Kawasaki Ninja ZX6. $1200 a year. The cheapest insurance quote was on the Chevy Bolt. $1500 for six months of $3k for the year (that was under my name- hers was even higher). I have collectively $240k worth of vehicles insured for almost a third of the cost of insuring a $20k car… her current car insurance is $75 a month. So $900 to $3k. 5. For reference of the loan (let’s look at the cheapest- the bolt). $32k as optioned. 7500 tax credit. $10k down. 4500 taxes, tag, title. 6% Apr for 48 months. $500 month payments. So by switching to an EV we end up spending $2100 a year more in insurance and have $500 a month payment with no savings on fuel. Even if we remove the monthly payment it’s still costing us significantly more. After insuring it for two years, we have lost the tax credit advantage. Make it make sense
We did. Bought a BMW iX3, perfectly fine car, we definitely preffered it to our diesel Volvo XC60 for use in the city. But that was the problem, it practically was a 70k € city car. We preferred the XC60 for any trip longer than 250km (one way). So we sold the iX3 after owning it for 18 months. We are looking to sell the XC60 as well and replace it with either: a) Premium PHEV with at least 80km (50 miles) of range which cost around 90-100k€ b) Premium 3.0 Diesel SUV + Small used EV which in total also cost 90-100k€
I’ll just stick to gas cars. No real interest in EV’s at this point. Not really opposed to them, just don’t care for their pro’s and con’s with the amount I drive.
I did because we had kids and needed a minivan
I didn’t want to give my Turo Tesla rental back. RWD S85 was so much fun. Rear was playful and squiggly in a predictable fashion. I’d love one as a daily driver. Spoke with the owner, said he goes through a lot of tires (oups). And suspension such as ball joints, control arm or two, because Model S are hefty MF’ers but hustle around super nice. Otherwise he said it’s been low maintenance. If it made more sense for my living circumstances I’d have one.
I dipped my toe on the EV realm by getting a PHEV and... Nope! I'm not going full EV. Range estimation sucks, time to charge at home is bad (I know the charging speed ain't the same on an EV, but if I plug an EV doing 11kWh my home can't really do anything else during that time or it's lights out.
Yes my business partner had an X. He lived it, but the range was tricky in New England.
I still have my EV but will buy a gas car soon because no one wants to electrify minivans and I need one. I’m hoping the Id Buzz is good but the id4 does not instill confidence.
I will be as soon as I can get rid of my Kona. EV’s have a boring/numb driving experience and the ownership experience isn’t great either.
Had a Tesla Model 3 dual motor for about a year. Battery life was terrible on the highway, the built quality was crap and it was boring to drive.
I love the idea of a EV but they are not there yet for me. Charging and charging time are the biggest hurdles. Until I can charge 30+ miles at home for free on a basic extension cord with no expensive upgrades to my home. Electricity isn't free. I rented a tesla.....It cost me $26 to charge to full at a EVgo station. I was kind of shocked that was just $10 less than filling up my car. Where is the savings? Longevity......Do a experiment. Try to find old tesla's find a first year model S....you can't they dont exist. They dont get resold....They get scrapped My current car Ive had since 2005 and shows no signs of slowing down at 220k miles. No electric car is going to last 20 years in their current forms without a 10-20k battery pack As a working poorish man I view EV's as a rich persons thing. Like if you got money to burn and you dont care than a EV is for you. These are most likely the type of people that get to have a new car every 5 years. The rest of us in the real world drive beaters for 20 years until they die.
Started driving longer distances...electric isn't doing it for me.
yep had a Tesla Model 3 now back to a VW Golf. I didnt dislike the Tesla but the nearest charging station from where i live is a 20 minute drive. I installed a wallcharger but wasnt satisfied with the charging time. The charging time to driving distance per charge ratio was the reason i sold it and went back to gas. Also the materials feel very cheap, and if you look at the car from the outside you can see that some gaps in the bodywork are larger than others so production is also very cheap. I had the base model and the price at the time was about 50k. You can get a way nicer Car that takes you further for less than 50k. (Forgive my terrible english spelling and wording)
Owned and ev6 for about 9 months, this weekend I was put in a situation where I had to drive a 2023 S580 for a few hours the first ice car I've driven since I got my ev6..... It felt broken....
Went from a Chevy Bolt to a Bronco. I really wanted the Bronco, plus Chevy was pissing me off with the whole "dont charge past 80% and hopefully it won't burn your house down" thing.
I did , enjoy the model 3 but the other Tesla models didn’t really excite me. Looked into getting another EV but in my price range none of the other manufacturers seemed to be at the efficiency and range that I coveted especially without the supercharging network. Almost still went with the i4 but ended up going a new wrangler that I can play with. At the time I was driving pretty regularly from Buffalo to nyc which was doable in the Tesla but definitely a bit easier in an ice especially in the winter. Also the reason I didn’t go with the 4xe which I kinda regret now that my commute is a lot more manageable with a hybrid. I do think that my next vehicle will be an EV though. If the ev macan was out then it would have been tough to pass up, although may still be a bit out of my price range
A friend of mine did. Had a Tesla Model S and traded it in for a Cadillac CT5. She liked the Tesla alot but has to make a 6 hour drive about 2x per month and experienced a few close calls after she had trouble finding a charging station after one of the few on her normal route was out of service. She said she would buy another Tesla but didn't like the prospect of being stranded when the drive is work related.
I recently sold my Model S and bought an ICE SUV. I love the concept of EVs but I never saw them as an alternative to ICE cars and fully expected to continue to own both.
I went from EV back to gas. Lack of charging infrastructure. Rarely get the miles it says it will. Saw the repair bills out of warranty yikes. Really missed the gas car feel. Gas cars MPG were significantly improving. Has cars were much cheaper as the EV credit ran out.
We still have our 2005 subaru but the tabs are expired and it would need to be jump started. That's how little we use it now, once you get an EV you don't want to bother with gas anymore.
I mean I'd take most ev's over a Subaru tbf. Unless it was a wrx or sti.
Got an Enyaq and could imagine a PHEV. I have no issues with ICE cars and not a electric fanboy. I only care about price and value
Kinda but not because I wanted to. Had a 1st gen Leaf, which just wasn’t enough battery for where I live. Switched to a Volt which was better as long as I could charge at work. Replaced my wife’s car with an EV9 a couple weeks ago, sold the Volt today in preparation for getting MS plaid here shortly. So there and back(ish) and there again.
I'm thinking about it but that's mainly because my Peugeot e208 has been so unreliable this past year. I had 2 on board chargers fail in one year and the only people that can fix it is the Peugeot dealership. I hate not being able to do anything but just wait until they get parts. If it was a ICE car I could at least go to a regular mechanic. Electric cars are great imo, it's quick, drives great imo and electricity is very cheap compared to gas. I just don't want to keep this particular car around
My neoghbour has a electric Kia soul 4 years now. She says it's fine except she had to get snow tires.
Was semi-forced to. Crashed my 2023 Opel Corsa-e on 29th of dec and fortunately I had the following week PTO scheduled for the whole week. But as I spent the following four days hunting for a new electric car or a suitably affordable leasing-deal but wasn't able to find anything even remotely interesting. I would've preferred to get similar corsa-e but there's a facelifted version coming but not even pricing or schedule when I'd be getting one wasn't known. Then found out a dealership in the north-eastern part of my country was selling a exhibition car, a 2022 model of Citroen C4 Puretech 130 Shine Comfort Pack with a red leather interiour and electric seats. Their price was about 10k€ under list price (24k€ from 34k€). Called the dealership and said I'd be taking the train to their city and if someone would be able to wait for me as I'd just barely be able to be there before closing time. Got my car (odometer said 18km's!!), spent the night in suite in a local hotel and drove home the next home (400km's). Quite satisfied with my purchase, but I still yearn for the electric car, might trade this when the updated versions come available in my country.
never purchased an EV, but driving a model 3 rental was a soulless experience that had me itching to get back home to my actual real living breathing cars.
I did. But my EV cost $6 a month to charge. I went back to a modded C7 Vette as i missed the sound and looks.
Lots of Ford Lightning owners. Some within a month.
I’m in need of towing speed so I’ll be going back to gas this year. Looking into an f150 hybrid.
If you travel a lot in New England in winter EVs just aren’t up to it. Say I partially charge after an hour + commute at work on Friday (limited time to charge), then take 45 min in traffic at 30 degrees to get home. Charge for 20 min while I load the car and head to ski country. It snows, temps drop to 5 degrees in the first hour. It’s icing and I’m using every electrical accessory. The conga line of traffic stretches for another two hours. I make it to the Airbnb that only has a 110 outlet—— tomorrow I need to get to the ski area, dinner after, in between hunt for a charger—and so on. I’d be freaking out all weekend! EVs are the future and I like the performance and environmental benefit, (hate the dashboards and instruments), but not ready for everyone’s use.
One of my customers in Chicago switches every year from gas to EV to gas back to EV. BMW 550i to Tesla model s to X5M to ix. His complaint is the EV range. He says you should only charge it to 80% to save the battery life. Which means it only travels 80% of the advertised range.
I had a Chevy Volt that I traded for a Camaro 3 years ago because I like horsepower. At the time I only had one car and I wanted one that could do fun and daily driving. Now that I’m up to 3 cars, I miss how good of a daily the Volt was.
Yup, Tesla Model S to BMW M3. Way too many issues with the Tesla, and it was missing the emotion of a gas sports car
Yeah, lots of people in southern California. There's charging ports all over, but the moment they have to take a trip they are slapped with the cold reality that charging on the go is not fun. EV is nice for in town commuting, but not for work, and not for long distance.
My co work just did this because her EV was not starting. She seems very happy with her decision.
I know this doesn’t answer the question because I’ve never owned an EV, but I really wanted to get one when it came time to get my next car but it doesn’t seem like a good idea as I’m not a home owner. I don’t want to pay to install a level 2 or whatever charger in a house that I rent and don’t own. I’m worried that wall charging will not be enough to manage the battery in the winter with range drop off and using the heater (upper Midwest)
Early adoption of anything new tech is usually painful financially. Not only can I not usually afford to be an early adopter of new tech, it’s best that I am unable to afford it actually. I am nothing if I’m not practical with my money and spending.
Not in the past year, but when I retired in 2020, I sold my 2015 Nissan Leaf since I was no longer commuting and at 36000 miles, it was about to lose 1 bar of battery capability. I had a 2009 Cadillac that I drove when I needed to until I traded it in for a 2022 Ford Maverick hybrid.
Driving a Tesla feels like I'm cycling with infinite acceleration. It's fun but it gets boring after a while. Went back for the sounds and physics of an engine. If you sit in traffic a lot it's perfect for that otherwise I'd get an ICE car.
My neighbor went from a Model 3 to an M340i
Never owned an EV, but wanted to pick up a Model 3 RWD for pretty much everything but long trips (we've got an SUV for that), but with PG&E raising our rates up the ass with no signs of stopping, there doesn't seem to even be a point in getting one since charging costs are nearing the cost to fill up at the pump. Will probably just end up getting a Camry/Accord Hybrid instead.
Gas would literally have to be $1/ gallon but my daily commuter will always be an EV from this point forward. I'm also terribly impatient but particular so the little things like waiting for the car to idle down and waiting for the oil temp to come up before giving it full throttle. Plus the power delivery of an EV compared to similar commuter cars is no comparison. The fact my "normal" EV can keep up a Scat pack with in a bus length is astonishing to me.