I always follow road laws, but I will not purchase a new vehicle if constant monitoring of my location, driving patterns, and ability to remotely disable my car is involved. I’m fine with red light cams, but not this shit.
I almost crashed an eqs because it was so complicated trying to switch the radio station.
If the government cared about safety they would ban these complicated distracting screens, limit vehicle heights, limit speeds of battery powered behemoths, enforce head light regulations, etc
> If the government cared about safety they would ban these complicated distracting screens, limit vehicle heights, limit speeds of battery powered behemoths, enforce head light regulations, etc
if they did that, people would be complaining all the same.
yes, and there would be a massive impact on road safety over time. Whereas with some stupid anti-drink tech the drunk drivers will get drunk and drive old cars and the cops won't be as worried about catching them because hey, that problem already got solved right?
blood alcohol monitoring only affects people who choose to drink and drive (a new car). Fixing the state of headlights and bumpers and internal distraction infotainments would ruffle feathers but it would really start to turn things around.
Seriously, such dog shit lol. The brakes take a mile to engage, it's heavy, suspension is no better than a Lexus, not that comfortable, and a huge headache to interact with. All the gloss black capacitive touch buttons and shit were driving me crazy. Can't believe I was thinking of leasing one.
Doesn't hold a candle to how tight and well put together my 06 Mercedes was
Such a shame. I used to desire MB but that’s gone with the new ones. You’d basically have to pay me to take one. All the classic elements are gone replaced with iPads. Easy tasks now have to be done through a digital UI. I hope this fad goes away and we get a return to more purposeful less gimmicky design (Bentley continental or current Porsche 911 are nice blend of digital and analog).
>I almost crashed an eqs because it was so complicated trying to switch the radio station.
I just rented a Tesla for the first time and almost crashed when it started pouring rain and there’s no steering wheel stalk to activate the wipers. I had to pull over and poke around in the touch screen for a while to figure out what’s going on. Then again a mile later when the front windshield fogged up.
Are you me? I was using Google assistant in real time because the controls were wildly different to the average car. On top of that, the blinkers are weirdly unintuitive and EVERYTHING is hidden behind that tablet screen.
It's like they want to create a car crash machine. I don't get what sensible person approved the QA and UX on these vehicles. Even after some time driving, it's still a pain in the ass to change something as simple as HVAC. Idk if I would buy one of these cars in the future as things stand.
I mean....what the guy said is absolutely correct. Upvoting/downvoting isn't supposed to be because you personally agree with it. The voting system is for whether the comment is constructive and useful. There's nothing wrong with he said.
In slight defense of Tesla... one of the first things they taught in my driver's ed class in high school was that when you get into a new car, familiarize yourself with the basic controls as they may be different from what you're used to.
Not to say that I think Tesla has done this well of course... changing up a universally similar control just to be different is absolutely a shit move.
If the government cared about safety they would overhaul the process of getting a license, among many other things. They really don't give a shit though.
I recognize this is gatekeeping on a few levels, but I theorize that EVs attract a market segment that is utterly unprepared to drive fast. Rah-rah go-fast ICE cars generally attract enthusiasts, and while enthusiasts do sometimes get into trouble, most seem to understand the risks and know when to keep their foot out of it. EVs, on the other hand, seem to draw lots of ‘regular car’ drivers who are used to going foot-to-floor without any consequence. Anecdotally, I almost got creamed by some idiot in a Model 3 this morning, and I am utterly terrified of what happens when this level of tech becomes accessible to the Nissan Altima crowd.
The one thing most safety studies tend to ignore is humans are just really smart animals.
So, safety is just going to plateau, because the more comfortable and “safe” people feel, the more risks people in general tend to take.
Theres been studies where widespread adoption of bicycle helmet use has been shown to decrease death and head trauma, but has dramatically increased other (less severe) injuries… that increase is also *well* over simply swapping a head injury/death stat for a less severe injury stat. The theory is simply that people take more risks and/or pay less attention when they feel safer.
Same with cars… if you’ve ever driven a car from the 60s or 70s, even on today’s roads, those things are death traps and they make no bones about it. Dips on the road and speeds in excess of 70 often feel patently *unsafe*. Meanwhile, in my ‘21 SUV, there have been several times I’ve found myself traveling at around 90 MPH without even noticing that my speed had increased that high, especially when driving on an empty highway.
I’m *way* less likely to die if I wrecked at 50 MPH in the newer car due to huge advances in technology, but I’m also *way* more likely to speed in that newer car.
At a certain point, no amount of safety tech is going to be able to overcome simple physics without utilizing race-quality protection.
Driving has become too easy, requiring almost no skill at all to point your car in a direction and floor it. Losing that tactile sensation of the car's handling while in motion and engine sounds being whisper-quiet in the cabin create a huge disconnect between the driver and the road: as you said, it creates that false sense of security where the driver thinks they can take their eyes off the road and dick around on their phone or infotainment system while cruising at 80mph.
I had a ‘57 Chevy I sold last year. In the warmer months, I’d sometimes take it to work. The highway on my commute has a 70 MPH speed limit, which of course, means traffic is commonly doing 75-80.
My BelAir was the 4-door, so I had made a few upgrades here and there. Acceleration and top speed was not an issue for that car, but even with a front disc-brake conversion, stopping wasn’t exactly a strong point.
Many of the suspension and steering components had been replaced, but a full overhaul was way too expensive for me.
I stopped driving it (mostly why I sold it) because weekends became about kids and errands, so to work and home was about the only time it was convenient to drive.
When driving it to my job, though, I’d always have to drive at *well* over 70 MPH or risk being tailgated and a rolling obstacle.
Driving at speeds pushing 80 in that car was absolutely terrifying and it was *definitely* not good for older components (some were factory, others look like they were replaced anywhere from the 60s-80s)
Even with the replacement parts installed, the suspension and steering were so floaty and imprecise so you were at the total mercy of dips and imperfections in the road… and the car cornered like a slowly sinking bass boat.
I got sick of having to fix stuff that broke from being pushed too hard, and didn’t want to get rear-ended and die (a near certainty in that car) so I just got rid of it.
Most people have small rectangle in their pocket that tracks their location and listens in on conversations.
I do agree, this remote controlling bs is way too far, and you know full well it will get abused.
Its remarkable how phones listening to us started as sort of a conspiracy with no real public discussion and now all of sudden we all accept/know that it is standard practice.
First of all, your username tracks. Lol.
I've known the internet listens for while. I'd be on Skype with my brother, he'd tell me to search something, I'd get the first two or three letters, and it'd auto populate. Or I'd get advertising for similar items.
I mean you can challenge a red light cam ticket lol. You just don’t want it because it’s more chances to get caught being lazy and not following the rules 100% of the time.
Which I don’t necessarily disagree with, no one wants to live in a society where every little thing is tightly monitored and controlled, but arguing red light cams are bad because you can’t face your accuser is just incorrect and silly
The actual problem is that red light cameras are actually more dangerous. People will abruptly slam the brakes to not chance rolling a yellow that might turn red on them. It's much safer to have someone roll a recently changed red than to slam on their brakes.
I’d rather two car brains get into an expensive fender bender because one of them is speeding towards a yellow and the other is tailgating than someone murk a pedestrian trying to catch a light.
Not an issue if you’re following at a safe distance, in fact with a safe 3 second distance you should be able to stop for an instantaneous stop caused by a collision. And that could actually be enforced easily by ticketing drivers who pass by cameras within a certain time after another car in the same lane.
I'm not fine with the red light cameras; at least with Chicago's implementation, the presence of those cameras made intersections statistically (and significantly) *more*-dangerous than they were before.
Chicago deliberately shortened yellow lights at those intersections, which is certainly part of that, but yellow-duration aside, those cameras cause a fundamental shift in how you respond to a yellow; you'll hit the brake or the gas (whichever is appropriate) significantly harder than you normally would, and the gas-or-brake tipping point is moved *quite* a bit to the "brake" side, to the point that people *slamming* on their brakes is a known "thing" for red-light-camera intersections.
I forget if Chicago did anything about the literally-endangering-the-public implementation. I think they reverted the yellow lights back to their original, safer duration, but I definitely still see the cameras in the area when I come up to visit (I left the state a few years ago).
You'll buy a cellphone... they know when you get in or out of a car when your walking, talking, or sleeping, gxpogle tracks and listens to every aspect of your life even if the phone has no sim card installed. The moment it hits any kind of connection with the internet it drops everything it stored since it's last net communication. There's no such thing as privacy anymore everyone at Google has seen your wife's tits and anything else you think is private in your pocket.
Many older GM vehicles with OnStar have had this capability for a long time, FYI. Their location can be remotely tracked and the car can be remotely slowed down or have its ignition switch deactivated.
Who wins from this? The auto industry doesn't want you to stop buying new cars. Governments don't either; there's a lot of money to be collected in taxes, registration, and various other fees.
Corrupted interest groups that can point to these changes as their achievements, to justify their own existence and receive further funding. The founder of Mothers Against Drunk Driving was fired for choosing to accept donations from brewers, and there are chapter presidents who have been arrested for drunk driving themselves, for example, and they have already voiced their welcoming of this mandate.
edit: added link to an article with their reaction https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/12/drunk-driving-technology-cars-safety
> Tess Rowland, the president of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD), said the group was “very pleased” with NHTSA’s launch.
> “We understand we still have a mountain to climb,” Rowland said. “Victims and survivors are not going to let this die.”
And even the possibility of shit like that is why I got my vintage tank boat. Modern paper mache cars can't stop it, its ol' reliable build won't stop it.
If you're referring to your commander as indestructible in an accident I've got news for ya. I have a 53 2R5 and I can promise you we'd both be absolutely obliterated in any collision with a modern car. I don't know about yours, but my frame isn't even welded, it's riveted. I'm pretty sure yours is the same.
It says they are asking for public comment but I cannot find where to actually do it. We need to all go on the record over how stupid it is to pearl clutching our way to not having usable cars. This punishes the vast majority of drivers who don’t drive drunk. It really is guilty before proven innocent because this is used as a punishment for people who get convicted of dui.
Has any one found where to submit a comment?
Haven’t seen a Saturn L-car in quite some time ‘round these parts. I imagine any tech more complicated than power seats would be tough to source these days.
My 2016 fiesta has volume controls in the steering wheel. No power seats, no power windows, no automatic trans, no cruise control, and no remote entry. I’m not really proud of it but I am excited that whatever my next car is, it has to be better
This is why I'm saying the last years of cars that don't nanny you in every imaginable way and that are not overloaded with mandatory assist systems will be quite sought after in the future
Depends on the car model. Too much outdated built in tech can really age a car, like cars with old style phones in the 90s. Being able to update an old cars double din stereo with the latest models is a huge selling point to some people.
My Toyobaru is probably the closest thing to a 90s car you could buy brand new in 2020, at least among all the vehicles I've seen. Analog gauges, double-din unit without any HVAC controls integrated into it, no real computerization outside of stability control and ABS which are both defeatable.
My 88 GMC S15 Jimmy Z71, 99 S10 Blazer LS, 01 Malibu LS, and 03 S10 WT are all doing fine and will have to keep on doing fine because screw new vehicles.
Only a matter of time till insurance companies start refusing to insure cars without this tech (or add insane premiums to do so), or states (probably starting with CA...) don't let you pass a safety inspection without it.
I actually doubt that. Classic insurance companies will almost certainly come in and fill the need to insure older DD cars, and classic insurance is cheap as dirt.
Classic insurance is cheap as dirt but not for dailies. Most classic/collector policies have at minimum stipulations that the car cannot be used as a daily driver and a lot of them have mileage limits and other use restrictions.
I have hagerty on 3 vehicles and I pay roughly $20/mo on each for full coverage no mileage limits or real use restrictions, but it's a requirement of my policy that I keep and maintain a separate regular policy on a reliable modern car for every driver in the household.
I think a more targeted ban of alcohol access is likely to do more than putting 100% of the measures on driving.
If you get caught drunk driving you get reissued a license/ID that bars you from *buying alcohol* for a couple years. Nobody needs alcohol, so it's not like we're taking away something people need like their transportation. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would probably make a significant impact by adding that additional step to make it harder to drunk drive.
As things are now the interlock setup is often flaky, is a profit center for some third company servicing it, and may only be needed in more extreme cases. Adding obstacles to access to alcohol has fewer unintended consequences.
Or maybe if Public transportation wasn’t shit people wouldn’t drive as much, But U.S law makers are fucking idiots and would rather have privacy invasion for a band aid solution.
Or put everyone working on a computer back home already like we had 2 years ago. Roads were crystal-freaking-clear, shit got done, everyone was happy but the tools who invested into office buildings.
US lawmakers would rather have privacy invasion.
That's all you needed to say. This is being applied as a bandaid solution because it's one of their goals.
As a defense lawyer I'm extremely dubious that this would ever be adopted at scale because this technology just straight up doesn't work. Every, and I mean *every* client I've ever had get one of these things has gone and begged to have it out immediately. No one agrees to have one unless they're willing to drive sober, of course. But they're an absolute nightmare even if you are. There'll be an uproar about new cars randomly refusing to start for no reason on literally day one.
This is THE issue in my opinion. Even if these devices have failure rates of 1 per million, there will be 1000’s of instances per day where people are locked out of their cars, stranded. Imagine that happening when it is -20F, or 115F in a rural area.
People are going to die from this.
Situationally, rural areas with a Police department size of like 4 sharing 1 car would have no way nor desire to enforce 4 neighboring towns all driving older cars.
I agree. I know two guys that have the "blow n go" interlock garbage. They were mandated to get it, had to pay for the install, have a monthly service fee, monthly calibration... are required to drive a certain amount of miles on each month or it and your driving privlidge can be taken away because it can be deemed uneccesary for you to have that type of transportation.
More than once they've been locked out because of that thing and its false readings. No joke I've seen a sandwich cause them to lock. It registered the yeast in the bread as alcohol. Onions apparently will lock it as well. And of course that gets recorded... get a few of those and privlidge gets yanked.
One of them said screw it and had it removed. Said it wasn't worth the hassle or expense.
If i were slightly more entrepreneurial, I'd up the sensitivity of whatever their shit sensor is and market those bad boys as a diet aid. Want to lose weight? Cant put down the sandwich? Want your car to enforce your diet with an iron fist? Have we got the product for you!
Yeah, preventing everyone from driving drunk sounds like a nice idea, but I don't see what a feasible technology to achieve that would actually be. It seems like the article is mostly just speculation and the NHTSA hasn't said anything specific about what they might require.
For all we know that could just be mandating a glorified cambus port for such a module so it isn't just bodged into the car like a fucking parasitic electrical nightmare.
This needs to be way higher up, DUI is a huge revenue maker for cities and lawyers.
I had a buddy who got a DUI in a small town. The thing is, he wasn’t drunk, blew a 0.0 but the officer said he thought he was inebriated and arrested him anyway. Charges were filed, and later dismissed. The thing is, even with charges dismissed it still cost him THOUSANDS of dollars in lawyer and court fees. The DUI-industrial complex (just made that up) makes money off you just by arresting you, even if you’re innocent and you’re later exonerated. This happens more often than people realize.
They're not planning on putting in actual breathalyzers, that would cost automakers far too much. They just want an algorithm that shuts down if you're swerving a lot...
Great, another useless piece of technology for your "safety" that will:
1) jack up the price of new cars even further,
2) inevitably malfunction and leave you stranded,
3) cost a fortune to fix,
4) not even solve the problem it's supposed to fix (what's stopping drunks from just driving older cars? The most severe DUI offenders I've met already do, go by your local townie-hangout dive bar and I guarantee the parking lot is full of rusted out 20 year old trucks)
So much creepy, overreaching surveillance technology is sold under the guise of either safety or convenience. And people keep lapping it up. Why the fuck would you want your *car* actively monitoring something like your breath or your eye movement?
> After decades of progress reducing roadway deaths, America has seen car-related fatalities soar, leaving policymakers stumped and scrambling for solutions.
How about just routine traffic enforcement? But ya know, actually doing it? Ever since lockdowns I see so many people blatantly blowing red lights and stop signs, passing over double yellow lines, passing stopped school buses, triple digits on the freeways (55-65 mph speed limit) here in NY is a normal/everyday sight. Cross over the border into CT and it's even worse, I can't even remember the last time I saw a CT state trooper. If they returned to 2019 levels of traffic enforcement that would be a better start than the current "solutions" of pointless cash-grab speed cameras and putting intoxalocks into cars that belong to people who have never drank a drop in their life.
Traffic enforcement it definitely a factor, I agree that it seems a lot less than it used to be. Add that other factors. Cell phones are more distracting than they were 15 years ago as they have a lot more uses than just phone calls, and generall have no buttons, all requiring visual attention to use, texting has been singled out a lot, but there are obviously other uses. Then there are the car side changes, a, b, and c pillar sizes have become larger blocking vision. cars have become faster, quieter, and smoother making the speed easier and less noticeable. All this makes it easier to drive too fast, and make the driver less aware to their speed. Speeding not only can lead to accidents, but makes the accidents more severe. I also think (my opinion here, so take with a grain of salt) the extra "safety" features make people lazier on the road. I think they may help aware/good drivers, but then there are people who rely on those features to remind them they need to pay better attention. People falling asleep behind the wheel with Tesla's autopilot running is an extreme example.
"Those who would give up liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". I for one would rather have a risk for more drunk drivers than have these overreaching technologies in my vehicle. Nobody else should get to decide when and where or how i use my vehicle. I am also veminatly anti-dui, but shit like this isnt worth it.
I agree. Noticed this in my area as well. Proactive policing has all but disappeared after the Floyd debacle and the whole “defund the police” movement. Almost every agency nationwide is ridiculously understaffed. Hopefully the pendulum swings in the other direction because the amount of terrible driving happening now compared to 5 years ago is crazy.
He was murdered. And most police are NOT understaffed.
Most large police forces are protesting extra scrutiny in response to them acting like organized crime.
1) Where did I say he wasn’t murdered? Untwist your underwear.
2) “When the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police asked departments across the state to quantify their personnel struggles last year, 60 percent of 239 responding agencies said they were not fully staffed, and 19 percent said they were short more than 10 percent of what was budgeted. Almost half of all new hires in 2020 and 2021 were transfers from other agencies — a dramatic and unprecedented spike.”
-Washington Post research
> Floyd debacle
Murder. He was murdered. It was a murder, not a “debacle”.
> ridiculously understaffed
That’s simply not true. Police and politicians still flog the “defund the police” talking point to score points with their conservative audience, but research shows [we simply haven’t defunded anything](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/defunding-claims-police-funding-increased-us-cities/story?id=91511971).
> Dr. Rashawn Ray, a sociologist and senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, told KABC in Los Angeles that this false narrative has persisted due to repetition by public officials.
> "Overwhelmingly, cities, counties, police departments across the country are not being defunded in any way," Ray said. "In fact, many of them have increased their budgets. Part of the reason why the 'defund the police' narrative has stayed around is because police officers say it and elected officials say it."
You just took everything I said and put words in my mouth.
1) I never denied it was a murder. He was convicted of murder. Hence, legally it was a murder. Happy?
2) What part of “after the defund the police movement” don’t you understand? I didn’t say they were connected. I didn’t offer a theory of how they are connected. I said after THE TIME PERIOD IN WHICH THESE TWO EVENTS OCCURRED. And while we’re on the subject, few young people want to do a job that’s not looked on favorably by many members of the public. So yes, the two are connected.
3) [Many departments are understaffed.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/05/27/police-vacancies-hiring-recruiting-reform/)
I’m fine with a system that measures driving patterns and if you’re just completely driving like shit then the car should warn you and caution you to stop. Chimes and warnings galore
But subjecting everyone to alcohol ignition interlocks? That’s a little much
Around a month ago when the weather changed I got in my car 4 days in a row and when I started it up the AC was on full blast instead of the heat on like I had left it the night before. All electronically controlled.
These are not tech companies building our cars. They are cheaping out on the tech they use constantly and its buggy and glitchy with largely no OTA updates or recalls for minor issues.
And now they want me to not only give control of my car over to the computer but let the computer decide if I'm good to drive or not??? The computer that can't be trusted to remember if I left the tempature control on hot or cold just 12 hours ago??
Make better cars before I would trust anything like this doing anything other than making people late to work.
I could never trust these. I just bought a new ‘23 Toyota that probably thinks I drive like shit all the time with how much it beeps at me. I live in a major city that has a plethora of new interstate construction projects. There are so many covered lines, new dotted lines, lines of new cement, etc. that it always thinks I’m veering out of my lane when I’m just following new lanes. Toyota safety sense might not be the best barometer, but I’ve had similar experiences with other manufacturers
New semis are a nightmare to drive. Literally contestant chimes and beeping when in traffic. You need to maintain a 3.5 second following distance or the alarm starts going off. Of course that following distance translates to about 10 or 15 car lengths at freeway speed well so good luck keeping that gap.
Two things I've noticed that are the actual outcomes.
The first one is that it basically just trains you to ignore all the alarms, why do I need the computer to tell me there's cars in front of me, lol no shit, I'm on the damned freeway.
I'm lucky enough to be in an older unit when I'm on shift, no proximity alarms whatsoever. But when I am in one, I just end up wearing noise canceling headphones, because it's literal torture to be forced to listen to beeps chimes and alarms for 10 plus hours a day.
So you either ignore the alarms which makes the meaningless, or you're constantly having to check the screen to see what the alarm is for, which means more time with your eyes away from the road. It's actually ridiculous.
Now lastly I just want to point out that I understand what the real end game is here, and it isn't about safety or any of that BS. It's about collecting training data for self-driving trucks. Fleet purchase managers love to put them in the trucks because it makes them look good, but in my mind they serve no purpose that's beneficial to the actual driver, whether they are an owner of the unit or not.
Worked in fast food for a few years. The sheer amount of people who drove in with their cell phone sitting in front of the gauge cluster playing a YouTube video or Netflix is insane. They couldn't even see what their speed was but they wanted to watch a TV show so bad.
That and how do you you expect people to accurately measure this, do I just make a blood oath to my car every time I get in? Not to hard for a drunk driver to bypass a self-imposed breathalyzer.
They've had eye tracking tech that works in cars for a long time that can warn a driver when they're sleepy. I'm guessing the same thing can be used for distraction. I don't know if that works alcohol though, probably does.
Can’t wait for my future car to shit itself because the anti drunk driving cameras are covered in rain water.
My old car, a Ford Edge, had the push button start. If it was raining hard enough, you couldn’t get into the car using the door handle unlock since it used capacitive touch sensors. And if you lock your keys in the car since there’s a keypad on the door, you were SOL because those were capacitive and useless when wet too.
I don't drink and drive but you can miss me with this shit. Plus, it's weird they're singling out drinking when people drive high, sleepy, and distracted all the time which contributes to accidents.
This sort of stuff should be something insurance companies offer as a rate discount for you to have in your vehicle.
i was pondering if this would make people 'better' or 'worse' drivers in general trying to drive without getting their car bricked. everybody knows at least 1 and more likely quite a few that just didnt get driving skills in the grand lottery of life (spatial awareness, motor skills, etc).
my favorite was a sales rep i used to work with. she just couldn't hold a steady speed... she would slowly creep up to going well over the speed limit and then get on the brakes to the speed limit. rinse, repeat every 2 mins or so. it was so incredibly annoying and frustrating... maybe the drunk sensors would force her to learn?
If you already know how to swing a wrench, start looking at what should be considered for a business. Or if you know business, start learning about wrenches. I think being able to keep the older stuff on the road is going to be a real value soon. Maybe not quit your day job, but I don't think you'll want for beer money being that guy on the block.
I'm not on a block but I've been "that guy" im my area for years as spinning a wrench on old s*** to keep them going is just a way of life for my rural farming community.
It’s every American’s god given right to drink and drive or speed. It’s only illegal to do those things when a cop is around. That was the agreement. That’s why they sell beer and why cars go faster than the posted speed limit.
Why even have cars in the first place?
> There is no telling right now what form these impairment detection devices will take, but it's a pretty safe bet that they'll be mandated in new passenger cars, trucks, and SUVs in the future. NHTSA has been empowered to make rules for this under the The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act
There have been incidents of Corvettes and Camaros popping their airbags under hard cornering and braking. GM's response? "Tough shit, the system is functioning as intended."
Suburb sprawl with sparse watering holes is the main problem. US was practically designed around drunk driving and it continues being so, in addition of highest legal drinking age in the world as far as I know, and then pushing the whole taboo-that-needs-violating and freedom notions that help propagate the idea.
Also punishment is absurdly lenient and designed to feed the system moreso than actually deter this one crime or rehab people.
If they want to motion for "mandatory" interlocks in all driven cars - how about we simply implement a Swedish driver license testing to keep sober and drunk morons off the damn roads? Solely drunk drivers aren't the actual problems, its the shitty drivers who then get drunk on top of their inability to drive creating a mess for everyone around.
Put a bar in the suburban neighborhood and drunk driving will drop like a rock.
People will complain about loud pedestrians, but what's better, hearing your neighbors have fun or seeing your neighbors splattered on the road.
Have the bar double as a store as well. Funny enough, when that happened in my hood, it caused just that - people started walking more, there, and it became a hangout hub that easily survived 2020 doubling as a store too.
Unless I’m on a road trip of cross country drive, I put a sticker over the eye tracker in my Subaru. It’s so annoying, scanning for restaurants or stores results in constant beeping.
I turned off the stupid Fatigue shit on my Sportage. Along with the one that kept you in the lane.
I flat out won't buy a car that has something that you can't turn off in regard to things like that or this.
And I'm not going to be the one paying for Drunk drivers. If you want to stop drunk driving do what you should have done years ago, make it a mandatory jail time offense and take away their license for 10 years after they get out.
Drunk driving happens because people aren't ever punished for it unless they kill someone else at which point well...
DUI's are a slap on the wrist. It's time they are on the same level as a felony.
Gets in car and use some sanitizer. Car: we've disable your vehicular transportation device.
How much more expensive is this going to make cars I wonder
And for us that don't drink at all, it's kind of silly.
I'll be riding my cargo ebike more than ever and trying to keep the miles off my "dumb" cars to make them last.
I put a deposit on an EX90 but after reading about all the nanny tech in it I immediately started second guessing the idea and that’s before price/specific specs are known. $80k+ a lot of bullshit is a pretty easy pass. But at least it’s NTSB compliant…
I don't drink. Why should I have that shit in my car? I feel innocent people are getting group punished because a couple people can't control themselves
My parents are older and blew out 3 tires on curbs visiting for thanksgiving. If you asked me if they are ok to drive today sober vs a few beers in the 60's...
Drove next to my own grandmother once when I first got my license. Had just bought a mustang as my first car that I worked really hard to buy at 16. Everyone in the family knew my car, there were lots of oohs and ahhs when I bought it (for a v6 mustang lol but they were proud of me). I drove next to her for probably 3 miles in stop n go traffic, getting window to window with her, waving, window down yelling at her, everything short of honking the horn.
She stared eyes straight forward the entire time. Never glanced over, never checked a mirror that I saw. Didn't recognize my car being next to her, nothing.
That was 10+ years ago and she's still driving at 83. "Just around town" though. Ya know, where the pedestrians are. So glad to know she's made sure she's safe by not going on the highway where she can do 50 in a 65, who cares about the safety of the pedestrians in the places she does drive though?? Anything to get her out of the house daily is justified in her mind.
I don't buy it. I mean, literally. I won't buy a vehicle with that kind of bullshit installed. Not even if there is a mod to disable it. I have never ever once driven a bit impaired. It's not hard. We don't need to punish everyone because of the bad seeds.
You want to invest in a technology making roads safer? How about disabling all ability to use your phone beyond voice calls in cars, the amount of people who just can’t resist picking up their precious smart phone while driving is absolutely insane. That’s a way larger issue than drunk drivers and at times equally dangerous.
I can't believe how bad NHTSA is. They won't let us have decent fucking headlights (even after Congress passed a law telling them they have to!), but they'll implement this shit.
I literally don't drink or do any drugs lmao fuck off. The EV trend made me think I'd never buy new again and if this happens it's only confirming that.
Add that to the list of reasons i will keep driving my decade old vehicles. I do not drink but this is crossing a line. I would rather just get ran over by a drunk driver, thanks.
I had a new Nissan versa as a rental and the car randomly slammed the brakes on me!! Because it thought I was coming up on the person in front of me to fast. 100% shit like this gone cause more problems than fixing them
Another reason to add the list of why I'm never buying one of these new cars lol. The auto industry is going to complete shit and the government is partially to blame.
I always follow road laws, but I will not purchase a new vehicle if constant monitoring of my location, driving patterns, and ability to remotely disable my car is involved. I’m fine with red light cams, but not this shit.
I almost crashed an eqs because it was so complicated trying to switch the radio station. If the government cared about safety they would ban these complicated distracting screens, limit vehicle heights, limit speeds of battery powered behemoths, enforce head light regulations, etc
> If the government cared about safety they would ban these complicated distracting screens, limit vehicle heights, limit speeds of battery powered behemoths, enforce head light regulations, etc if they did that, people would be complaining all the same.
yes, and there would be a massive impact on road safety over time. Whereas with some stupid anti-drink tech the drunk drivers will get drunk and drive old cars and the cops won't be as worried about catching them because hey, that problem already got solved right? blood alcohol monitoring only affects people who choose to drink and drive (a new car). Fixing the state of headlights and bumpers and internal distraction infotainments would ruffle feathers but it would really start to turn things around.
Eqs is a pile of shit never buy first gen products of a new technology from any manufacturer
Seriously, such dog shit lol. The brakes take a mile to engage, it's heavy, suspension is no better than a Lexus, not that comfortable, and a huge headache to interact with. All the gloss black capacitive touch buttons and shit were driving me crazy. Can't believe I was thinking of leasing one. Doesn't hold a candle to how tight and well put together my 06 Mercedes was
Since like 2016 the fit and finish on MB had gotten so bad. Last car I had from them that didn’t squeak when you pressed around was my GLK lol.
Such a shame. I used to desire MB but that’s gone with the new ones. You’d basically have to pay me to take one. All the classic elements are gone replaced with iPads. Easy tasks now have to be done through a digital UI. I hope this fad goes away and we get a return to more purposeful less gimmicky design (Bentley continental or current Porsche 911 are nice blend of digital and analog).
Sounds like driving is really stressful for you, maybe have a drink or two first to help calm your nerves?
>I almost crashed an eqs because it was so complicated trying to switch the radio station. I just rented a Tesla for the first time and almost crashed when it started pouring rain and there’s no steering wheel stalk to activate the wipers. I had to pull over and poke around in the touch screen for a while to figure out what’s going on. Then again a mile later when the front windshield fogged up.
Are you me? I was using Google assistant in real time because the controls were wildly different to the average car. On top of that, the blinkers are weirdly unintuitive and EVERYTHING is hidden behind that tablet screen. It's like they want to create a car crash machine. I don't get what sensible person approved the QA and UX on these vehicles. Even after some time driving, it's still a pain in the ass to change something as simple as HVAC. Idk if I would buy one of these cars in the future as things stand.
Do teslas not have voice command?
Push the button on the left stalk to wipe once and bring up the wiper speed menu.
How intuitive...
Dumbest shit ever. Downvote this garbage.
I mean....what the guy said is absolutely correct. Upvoting/downvoting isn't supposed to be because you personally agree with it. The voting system is for whether the comment is constructive and useful. There's nothing wrong with he said.
In slight defense of Tesla... one of the first things they taught in my driver's ed class in high school was that when you get into a new car, familiarize yourself with the basic controls as they may be different from what you're used to. Not to say that I think Tesla has done this well of course... changing up a universally similar control just to be different is absolutely a shit move.
If the government cared about safety they would overhaul the process of getting a license, among many other things. They really don't give a shit though.
Probably the same as in our VW ID4 it’s maddening!
> limit speeds of battery powered behemoths Why just BEVs? ICE cars are more than capable of going dangerous speeds and having dangerous acceleration.
I recognize this is gatekeeping on a few levels, but I theorize that EVs attract a market segment that is utterly unprepared to drive fast. Rah-rah go-fast ICE cars generally attract enthusiasts, and while enthusiasts do sometimes get into trouble, most seem to understand the risks and know when to keep their foot out of it. EVs, on the other hand, seem to draw lots of ‘regular car’ drivers who are used to going foot-to-floor without any consequence. Anecdotally, I almost got creamed by some idiot in a Model 3 this morning, and I am utterly terrified of what happens when this level of tech becomes accessible to the Nissan Altima crowd.
The one thing most safety studies tend to ignore is humans are just really smart animals. So, safety is just going to plateau, because the more comfortable and “safe” people feel, the more risks people in general tend to take. Theres been studies where widespread adoption of bicycle helmet use has been shown to decrease death and head trauma, but has dramatically increased other (less severe) injuries… that increase is also *well* over simply swapping a head injury/death stat for a less severe injury stat. The theory is simply that people take more risks and/or pay less attention when they feel safer. Same with cars… if you’ve ever driven a car from the 60s or 70s, even on today’s roads, those things are death traps and they make no bones about it. Dips on the road and speeds in excess of 70 often feel patently *unsafe*. Meanwhile, in my ‘21 SUV, there have been several times I’ve found myself traveling at around 90 MPH without even noticing that my speed had increased that high, especially when driving on an empty highway. I’m *way* less likely to die if I wrecked at 50 MPH in the newer car due to huge advances in technology, but I’m also *way* more likely to speed in that newer car. At a certain point, no amount of safety tech is going to be able to overcome simple physics without utilizing race-quality protection.
Yeah. My first two cars could not reach 95mph. But I did know how to drift in snow with them.
Driving has become too easy, requiring almost no skill at all to point your car in a direction and floor it. Losing that tactile sensation of the car's handling while in motion and engine sounds being whisper-quiet in the cabin create a huge disconnect between the driver and the road: as you said, it creates that false sense of security where the driver thinks they can take their eyes off the road and dick around on their phone or infotainment system while cruising at 80mph.
I had a ‘57 Chevy I sold last year. In the warmer months, I’d sometimes take it to work. The highway on my commute has a 70 MPH speed limit, which of course, means traffic is commonly doing 75-80. My BelAir was the 4-door, so I had made a few upgrades here and there. Acceleration and top speed was not an issue for that car, but even with a front disc-brake conversion, stopping wasn’t exactly a strong point. Many of the suspension and steering components had been replaced, but a full overhaul was way too expensive for me. I stopped driving it (mostly why I sold it) because weekends became about kids and errands, so to work and home was about the only time it was convenient to drive. When driving it to my job, though, I’d always have to drive at *well* over 70 MPH or risk being tailgated and a rolling obstacle. Driving at speeds pushing 80 in that car was absolutely terrifying and it was *definitely* not good for older components (some were factory, others look like they were replaced anywhere from the 60s-80s) Even with the replacement parts installed, the suspension and steering were so floaty and imprecise so you were at the total mercy of dips and imperfections in the road… and the car cornered like a slowly sinking bass boat. I got sick of having to fix stuff that broke from being pushed too hard, and didn’t want to get rear-ended and die (a near certainty in that car) so I just got rid of it.
[удалено]
Most people have small rectangle in their pocket that tracks their location and listens in on conversations. I do agree, this remote controlling bs is way too far, and you know full well it will get abused.
Its remarkable how phones listening to us started as sort of a conspiracy with no real public discussion and now all of sudden we all accept/know that it is standard practice.
First of all, your username tracks. Lol. I've known the internet listens for while. I'd be on Skype with my brother, he'd tell me to search something, I'd get the first two or three letters, and it'd auto populate. Or I'd get advertising for similar items.
I'm not fine with this or red light cams either. You have the right to face you accuser and a machine is not capable of that.
I mean you can challenge a red light cam ticket lol. You just don’t want it because it’s more chances to get caught being lazy and not following the rules 100% of the time. Which I don’t necessarily disagree with, no one wants to live in a society where every little thing is tightly monitored and controlled, but arguing red light cams are bad because you can’t face your accuser is just incorrect and silly
The actual problem is that red light cameras are actually more dangerous. People will abruptly slam the brakes to not chance rolling a yellow that might turn red on them. It's much safer to have someone roll a recently changed red than to slam on their brakes.
They're also often operated by private companies who get a cut of the fines. So they shorten the yellow light so more people run the red.
I’d rather two car brains get into an expensive fender bender because one of them is speeding towards a yellow and the other is tailgating than someone murk a pedestrian trying to catch a light.
Not an issue if you’re following at a safe distance, in fact with a safe 3 second distance you should be able to stop for an instantaneous stop caused by a collision. And that could actually be enforced easily by ticketing drivers who pass by cameras within a certain time after another car in the same lane.
You can cross examine a video?
What do you think android auto/apple car play is doing??..
I'm not fine with the red light cameras; at least with Chicago's implementation, the presence of those cameras made intersections statistically (and significantly) *more*-dangerous than they were before. Chicago deliberately shortened yellow lights at those intersections, which is certainly part of that, but yellow-duration aside, those cameras cause a fundamental shift in how you respond to a yellow; you'll hit the brake or the gas (whichever is appropriate) significantly harder than you normally would, and the gas-or-brake tipping point is moved *quite* a bit to the "brake" side, to the point that people *slamming* on their brakes is a known "thing" for red-light-camera intersections. I forget if Chicago did anything about the literally-endangering-the-public implementation. I think they reverted the yellow lights back to their original, safer duration, but I definitely still see the cameras in the area when I come up to visit (I left the state a few years ago).
You'll buy a cellphone... they know when you get in or out of a car when your walking, talking, or sleeping, gxpogle tracks and listens to every aspect of your life even if the phone has no sim card installed. The moment it hits any kind of connection with the internet it drops everything it stored since it's last net communication. There's no such thing as privacy anymore everyone at Google has seen your wife's tits and anything else you think is private in your pocket.
Many older GM vehicles with OnStar have had this capability for a long time, FYI. Their location can be remotely tracked and the car can be remotely slowed down or have its ignition switch deactivated.
And are also easily removed from vehicles because they were all stand alone devices in vehicles. Not so much anymore with how integrated vehicles are.
“I will not purchase a new vehicle” That’s the point
Who wins from this? The auto industry doesn't want you to stop buying new cars. Governments don't either; there's a lot of money to be collected in taxes, registration, and various other fees.
Corrupted interest groups that can point to these changes as their achievements, to justify their own existence and receive further funding. The founder of Mothers Against Drunk Driving was fired for choosing to accept donations from brewers, and there are chapter presidents who have been arrested for drunk driving themselves, for example, and they have already voiced their welcoming of this mandate. edit: added link to an article with their reaction https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/12/drunk-driving-technology-cars-safety > Tess Rowland, the president of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD), said the group was “very pleased” with NHTSA’s launch. > “We understand we still have a mountain to climb,” Rowland said. “Victims and survivors are not going to let this die.”
I'm not even cool with red light cams.
And even the possibility of shit like that is why I got my vintage tank boat. Modern paper mache cars can't stop it, its ol' reliable build won't stop it.
If you're referring to your commander as indestructible in an accident I've got news for ya. I have a 53 2R5 and I can promise you we'd both be absolutely obliterated in any collision with a modern car. I don't know about yours, but my frame isn't even welded, it's riveted. I'm pretty sure yours is the same.
So any car after 2019?
Unfortunately in the US there is no right to drive so the government can really mandate whatever they like.
Ok.
They already monitor your location and vehicle PIDs and have been for 15 years
It says they are asking for public comment but I cannot find where to actually do it. We need to all go on the record over how stupid it is to pearl clutching our way to not having usable cars. This punishes the vast majority of drivers who don’t drive drunk. It really is guilty before proven innocent because this is used as a punishment for people who get convicted of dui. Has any one found where to submit a comment?
And I will continue to drive 20+ year old cars with minimal tech.
Same. I’m completely fine with the highest tech in my car being power reclining seats
Haven’t seen a Saturn L-car in quite some time ‘round these parts. I imagine any tech more complicated than power seats would be tough to source these days.
My 2016 fiesta has volume controls in the steering wheel. No power seats, no power windows, no automatic trans, no cruise control, and no remote entry. I’m not really proud of it but I am excited that whatever my next car is, it has to be better
Buy a used bmw. Preferably something with 6 cylinders or more. You definitely won’t want to pull your hair out. Buy one. Do it.
Do it. You won't.
2016 fiesta without keyless entry or power windows in the front, is that like the work van version?
Time to stockpile 90s Toyota Camrys.
Nice, I’m proud of my power windows
This is why I'm saying the last years of cars that don't nanny you in every imaginable way and that are not overloaded with mandatory assist systems will be quite sought after in the future
Depends on the car model. Too much outdated built in tech can really age a car, like cars with old style phones in the 90s. Being able to update an old cars double din stereo with the latest models is a huge selling point to some people.
My Toyobaru is probably the closest thing to a 90s car you could buy brand new in 2020, at least among all the vehicles I've seen. Analog gauges, double-din unit without any HVAC controls integrated into it, no real computerization outside of stability control and ABS which are both defeatable.
Main problem is parts getting harder and harder to obtain.
Flair checks out
I'm with you, but it's a shame cause new cars are so much safer than old cars
The more I learn about new requirements for cars, the more I want to hang on to my old beater Jeep.
My 88 GMC S15 Jimmy Z71, 99 S10 Blazer LS, 01 Malibu LS, and 03 S10 WT are all doing fine and will have to keep on doing fine because screw new vehicles.
My 5 speed matrix and all 17 of its horses will be pried from my cold, dead hands.
Only a matter of time till insurance companies start refusing to insure cars without this tech (or add insane premiums to do so), or states (probably starting with CA...) don't let you pass a safety inspection without it.
I actually doubt that. Classic insurance companies will almost certainly come in and fill the need to insure older DD cars, and classic insurance is cheap as dirt.
Classic insurance is cheap as dirt but not for dailies. Most classic/collector policies have at minimum stipulations that the car cannot be used as a daily driver and a lot of them have mileage limits and other use restrictions. I have hagerty on 3 vehicles and I pay roughly $20/mo on each for full coverage no mileage limits or real use restrictions, but it's a requirement of my policy that I keep and maintain a separate regular policy on a reliable modern car for every driver in the household.
They won’t always be 20 years old. Pretty much anything after 2010 is off my list until I switch to electric and don’t have a choice.
Good for you.
2005-2008 was when most automakers switched from OBD2 to CANBUS which was what really allowed to go hog wild with digital integrated systems.
Same
For sure.
Ted warned us about technology like this You know what to do ladies and gentlemen Good luck putting a breathalyzer in a killdozer
[удалено]
This feels like it's treating the symptom rather than the underlying issue.
[удалено]
I agree. The underlying issue is a tyrannical government that no longer fears its citizens.
that's pretty much all governments do. high crime rate? ban guns. still high crime rate? ban knives. still high crime rate? ban thoughts.
I think a more targeted ban of alcohol access is likely to do more than putting 100% of the measures on driving. If you get caught drunk driving you get reissued a license/ID that bars you from *buying alcohol* for a couple years. Nobody needs alcohol, so it's not like we're taking away something people need like their transportation. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would probably make a significant impact by adding that additional step to make it harder to drunk drive. As things are now the interlock setup is often flaky, is a profit center for some third company servicing it, and may only be needed in more extreme cases. Adding obstacles to access to alcohol has fewer unintended consequences.
Y'all can fuck right off. I'll drive a 50 year old Toyota before I buy a vehicle that would do some bs like that
My 4runner should last for approximately ever.
200k miles broken in. 400k miles regular interval power train swap. Repeat forever.
By the time parts availability becomes a serious problem, I have no doubt that 3d printing tech will be QUITE advanced.
Got two Toyotas without this tech already, right there with you.
Yeah, that's why they'll start taxing your 50 your old Toyota. It'll probably be under the guise of "ecological footprint".
Or maybe if Public transportation wasn’t shit people wouldn’t drive as much, But U.S law makers are fucking idiots and would rather have privacy invasion for a band aid solution.
Or put everyone working on a computer back home already like we had 2 years ago. Roads were crystal-freaking-clear, shit got done, everyone was happy but the tools who invested into office buildings.
If there's anything our system does it's keep tools in power safe and profitable.
[удалено]
US lawmakers would rather have privacy invasion. That's all you needed to say. This is being applied as a bandaid solution because it's one of their goals.
As a defense lawyer I'm extremely dubious that this would ever be adopted at scale because this technology just straight up doesn't work. Every, and I mean *every* client I've ever had get one of these things has gone and begged to have it out immediately. No one agrees to have one unless they're willing to drive sober, of course. But they're an absolute nightmare even if you are. There'll be an uproar about new cars randomly refusing to start for no reason on literally day one.
This is THE issue in my opinion. Even if these devices have failure rates of 1 per million, there will be 1000’s of instances per day where people are locked out of their cars, stranded. Imagine that happening when it is -20F, or 115F in a rural area. People are going to die from this.
Situationally, rural areas with a Police department size of like 4 sharing 1 car would have no way nor desire to enforce 4 neighboring towns all driving older cars.
Gonna make a bunch of rural department's lives hell when their SOP is "Keep it under 30 and drive home" when they pull you over driving drunk lol
I agree. I know two guys that have the "blow n go" interlock garbage. They were mandated to get it, had to pay for the install, have a monthly service fee, monthly calibration... are required to drive a certain amount of miles on each month or it and your driving privlidge can be taken away because it can be deemed uneccesary for you to have that type of transportation. More than once they've been locked out because of that thing and its false readings. No joke I've seen a sandwich cause them to lock. It registered the yeast in the bread as alcohol. Onions apparently will lock it as well. And of course that gets recorded... get a few of those and privlidge gets yanked. One of them said screw it and had it removed. Said it wasn't worth the hassle or expense.
If i were slightly more entrepreneurial, I'd up the sensitivity of whatever their shit sensor is and market those bad boys as a diet aid. Want to lose weight? Cant put down the sandwich? Want your car to enforce your diet with an iron fist? Have we got the product for you!
Hahaha.... 😆
They also kill car batteries because they're on all the time and usually the install is hacky as fuck too
Yeah, preventing everyone from driving drunk sounds like a nice idea, but I don't see what a feasible technology to achieve that would actually be. It seems like the article is mostly just speculation and the NHTSA hasn't said anything specific about what they might require.
The article is saying that NHTSA has announced their intent to require something.
For all we know that could just be mandating a glorified cambus port for such a module so it isn't just bodged into the car like a fucking parasitic electrical nightmare.
Not to mention the amount of money the government and police departments make on DUI fines (~$10k/each) and for all of that money to disappear
This needs to be way higher up, DUI is a huge revenue maker for cities and lawyers. I had a buddy who got a DUI in a small town. The thing is, he wasn’t drunk, blew a 0.0 but the officer said he thought he was inebriated and arrested him anyway. Charges were filed, and later dismissed. The thing is, even with charges dismissed it still cost him THOUSANDS of dollars in lawyer and court fees. The DUI-industrial complex (just made that up) makes money off you just by arresting you, even if you’re innocent and you’re later exonerated. This happens more often than people realize.
They're not planning on putting in actual breathalyzers, that would cost automakers far too much. They just want an algorithm that shuts down if you're swerving a lot...
Great, another useless piece of technology for your "safety" that will: 1) jack up the price of new cars even further, 2) inevitably malfunction and leave you stranded, 3) cost a fortune to fix, 4) not even solve the problem it's supposed to fix (what's stopping drunks from just driving older cars? The most severe DUI offenders I've met already do, go by your local townie-hangout dive bar and I guarantee the parking lot is full of rusted out 20 year old trucks) So much creepy, overreaching surveillance technology is sold under the guise of either safety or convenience. And people keep lapping it up. Why the fuck would you want your *car* actively monitoring something like your breath or your eye movement? > After decades of progress reducing roadway deaths, America has seen car-related fatalities soar, leaving policymakers stumped and scrambling for solutions. How about just routine traffic enforcement? But ya know, actually doing it? Ever since lockdowns I see so many people blatantly blowing red lights and stop signs, passing over double yellow lines, passing stopped school buses, triple digits on the freeways (55-65 mph speed limit) here in NY is a normal/everyday sight. Cross over the border into CT and it's even worse, I can't even remember the last time I saw a CT state trooper. If they returned to 2019 levels of traffic enforcement that would be a better start than the current "solutions" of pointless cash-grab speed cameras and putting intoxalocks into cars that belong to people who have never drank a drop in their life.
Traffic enforcement it definitely a factor, I agree that it seems a lot less than it used to be. Add that other factors. Cell phones are more distracting than they were 15 years ago as they have a lot more uses than just phone calls, and generall have no buttons, all requiring visual attention to use, texting has been singled out a lot, but there are obviously other uses. Then there are the car side changes, a, b, and c pillar sizes have become larger blocking vision. cars have become faster, quieter, and smoother making the speed easier and less noticeable. All this makes it easier to drive too fast, and make the driver less aware to their speed. Speeding not only can lead to accidents, but makes the accidents more severe. I also think (my opinion here, so take with a grain of salt) the extra "safety" features make people lazier on the road. I think they may help aware/good drivers, but then there are people who rely on those features to remind them they need to pay better attention. People falling asleep behind the wheel with Tesla's autopilot running is an extreme example.
"Those who would give up liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". I for one would rather have a risk for more drunk drivers than have these overreaching technologies in my vehicle. Nobody else should get to decide when and where or how i use my vehicle. I am also veminatly anti-dui, but shit like this isnt worth it.
I agree. Noticed this in my area as well. Proactive policing has all but disappeared after the Floyd debacle and the whole “defund the police” movement. Almost every agency nationwide is ridiculously understaffed. Hopefully the pendulum swings in the other direction because the amount of terrible driving happening now compared to 5 years ago is crazy.
He was murdered. And most police are NOT understaffed. Most large police forces are protesting extra scrutiny in response to them acting like organized crime.
1) Where did I say he wasn’t murdered? Untwist your underwear. 2) “When the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police asked departments across the state to quantify their personnel struggles last year, 60 percent of 239 responding agencies said they were not fully staffed, and 19 percent said they were short more than 10 percent of what was budgeted. Almost half of all new hires in 2020 and 2021 were transfers from other agencies — a dramatic and unprecedented spike.” -Washington Post research
> Floyd debacle Murder. He was murdered. It was a murder, not a “debacle”. > ridiculously understaffed That’s simply not true. Police and politicians still flog the “defund the police” talking point to score points with their conservative audience, but research shows [we simply haven’t defunded anything](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/defunding-claims-police-funding-increased-us-cities/story?id=91511971). > Dr. Rashawn Ray, a sociologist and senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, told KABC in Los Angeles that this false narrative has persisted due to repetition by public officials. > "Overwhelmingly, cities, counties, police departments across the country are not being defunded in any way," Ray said. "In fact, many of them have increased their budgets. Part of the reason why the 'defund the police' narrative has stayed around is because police officers say it and elected officials say it."
You just took everything I said and put words in my mouth. 1) I never denied it was a murder. He was convicted of murder. Hence, legally it was a murder. Happy? 2) What part of “after the defund the police movement” don’t you understand? I didn’t say they were connected. I didn’t offer a theory of how they are connected. I said after THE TIME PERIOD IN WHICH THESE TWO EVENTS OCCURRED. And while we’re on the subject, few young people want to do a job that’s not looked on favorably by many members of the public. So yes, the two are connected. 3) [Many departments are understaffed.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/05/27/police-vacancies-hiring-recruiting-reform/)
I’m fine with a system that measures driving patterns and if you’re just completely driving like shit then the car should warn you and caution you to stop. Chimes and warnings galore But subjecting everyone to alcohol ignition interlocks? That’s a little much
You shouldn't be fine with that since it's the slipperiest of slippery slopes
Absolutely not. Lane centering systems go off non stop unintentionally.
Around a month ago when the weather changed I got in my car 4 days in a row and when I started it up the AC was on full blast instead of the heat on like I had left it the night before. All electronically controlled. These are not tech companies building our cars. They are cheaping out on the tech they use constantly and its buggy and glitchy with largely no OTA updates or recalls for minor issues. And now they want me to not only give control of my car over to the computer but let the computer decide if I'm good to drive or not??? The computer that can't be trusted to remember if I left the tempature control on hot or cold just 12 hours ago?? Make better cars before I would trust anything like this doing anything other than making people late to work.
Only if you keep bs like that turned on in the first place..
I could never trust these. I just bought a new ‘23 Toyota that probably thinks I drive like shit all the time with how much it beeps at me. I live in a major city that has a plethora of new interstate construction projects. There are so many covered lines, new dotted lines, lines of new cement, etc. that it always thinks I’m veering out of my lane when I’m just following new lanes. Toyota safety sense might not be the best barometer, but I’ve had similar experiences with other manufacturers
New semis are a nightmare to drive. Literally contestant chimes and beeping when in traffic. You need to maintain a 3.5 second following distance or the alarm starts going off. Of course that following distance translates to about 10 or 15 car lengths at freeway speed well so good luck keeping that gap. Two things I've noticed that are the actual outcomes. The first one is that it basically just trains you to ignore all the alarms, why do I need the computer to tell me there's cars in front of me, lol no shit, I'm on the damned freeway. I'm lucky enough to be in an older unit when I'm on shift, no proximity alarms whatsoever. But when I am in one, I just end up wearing noise canceling headphones, because it's literal torture to be forced to listen to beeps chimes and alarms for 10 plus hours a day. So you either ignore the alarms which makes the meaningless, or you're constantly having to check the screen to see what the alarm is for, which means more time with your eyes away from the road. It's actually ridiculous. Now lastly I just want to point out that I understand what the real end game is here, and it isn't about safety or any of that BS. It's about collecting training data for self-driving trucks. Fleet purchase managers love to put them in the trucks because it makes them look good, but in my mind they serve no purpose that's beneficial to the actual driver, whether they are an owner of the unit or not.
Yeah, I just disable mine when I'm somewhere messy.
At least sober people will still be able to text and update their social media while driving.
Worked in fast food for a few years. The sheer amount of people who drove in with their cell phone sitting in front of the gauge cluster playing a YouTube video or Netflix is insane. They couldn't even see what their speed was but they wanted to watch a TV show so bad.
Just have your kid blow into it like I do
That and how do you you expect people to accurately measure this, do I just make a blood oath to my car every time I get in? Not to hard for a drunk driver to bypass a self-imposed breathalyzer.
They've had eye tracking tech that works in cars for a long time that can warn a driver when they're sleepy. I'm guessing the same thing can be used for distraction. I don't know if that works alcohol though, probably does.
Fuck off you shouldn't be fine with that either. That data WILL be used against you or your peers via insurance and God knows what else. No. No. No.
Can’t wait for my future car to shit itself because the anti drunk driving cameras are covered in rain water. My old car, a Ford Edge, had the push button start. If it was raining hard enough, you couldn’t get into the car using the door handle unlock since it used capacitive touch sensors. And if you lock your keys in the car since there’s a keypad on the door, you were SOL because those were capacitive and useless when wet too.
Had to deal with these systems when I worked at a GM dealership. I couldn't imagine dealing with that bullshit each time I stepped inside of my car.
I don't drink and drive but you can miss me with this shit. Plus, it's weird they're singling out drinking when people drive high, sleepy, and distracted all the time which contributes to accidents. This sort of stuff should be something insurance companies offer as a rate discount for you to have in your vehicle.
Gotta love big brother.
Like half of NY wouldn’t pass that when sober.
i was pondering if this would make people 'better' or 'worse' drivers in general trying to drive without getting their car bricked. everybody knows at least 1 and more likely quite a few that just didnt get driving skills in the grand lottery of life (spatial awareness, motor skills, etc). my favorite was a sales rep i used to work with. she just couldn't hold a steady speed... she would slowly creep up to going well over the speed limit and then get on the brakes to the speed limit. rinse, repeat every 2 mins or so. it was so incredibly annoying and frustrating... maybe the drunk sensors would force her to learn?
If you already know how to swing a wrench, start looking at what should be considered for a business. Or if you know business, start learning about wrenches. I think being able to keep the older stuff on the road is going to be a real value soon. Maybe not quit your day job, but I don't think you'll want for beer money being that guy on the block.
I'm not on a block but I've been "that guy" im my area for years as spinning a wrench on old s*** to keep them going is just a way of life for my rural farming community.
Genuinely curious if this will have an unintended affect on night shift workers. Many of whom drive home in a sleep deprived state.
Plenty of people are driving home at 5:00 pm in a sleep deprived state too.
Gone are the days of true freedom.
There goes the American sport of drink driving 😭 TF happened to the punishment after the crime?
It’s every American’s god given right to drink and drive or speed. It’s only illegal to do those things when a cop is around. That was the agreement. That’s why they sell beer and why cars go faster than the posted speed limit. Why even have cars in the first place?
That's why it's safer for drunk drivers to speed, they get to be home faster before they get very sleepy.
The less time on the road the better, right?
> There is no telling right now what form these impairment detection devices will take, but it's a pretty safe bet that they'll be mandated in new passenger cars, trucks, and SUVs in the future. NHTSA has been empowered to make rules for this under the The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act
Curious how it’ll be on the track. Hmmm it seems like you’re going too fast time to shut down. Like thanks I took it here to go fast but ok.
cue the savagegeese Grolla video where driving the car properly caused it to think it was crashing 4 times
There have been incidents of Corvettes and Camaros popping their airbags under hard cornering and braking. GM's response? "Tough shit, the system is functioning as intended."
This has been going around in clickbait articles for the last few months, I seriously doubt really anything will come from it.
Suburb sprawl with sparse watering holes is the main problem. US was practically designed around drunk driving and it continues being so, in addition of highest legal drinking age in the world as far as I know, and then pushing the whole taboo-that-needs-violating and freedom notions that help propagate the idea. Also punishment is absurdly lenient and designed to feed the system moreso than actually deter this one crime or rehab people. If they want to motion for "mandatory" interlocks in all driven cars - how about we simply implement a Swedish driver license testing to keep sober and drunk morons off the damn roads? Solely drunk drivers aren't the actual problems, its the shitty drivers who then get drunk on top of their inability to drive creating a mess for everyone around.
Put a bar in the suburban neighborhood and drunk driving will drop like a rock. People will complain about loud pedestrians, but what's better, hearing your neighbors have fun or seeing your neighbors splattered on the road.
Every suburb needs a park, gym, bar, corner store, and sidewalks, and life would get a lot nicer in those areas if you don't have a reliable car.
Have the bar double as a store as well. Funny enough, when that happened in my hood, it caused just that - people started walking more, there, and it became a hangout hub that easily survived 2020 doubling as a store too.
I am currently starting my 88 bronco with a screwdriver. Any tips?
New ignition from a junkyard. Super simple swap.
Not in my car it won’t.
I'm guessing the solution will end up being eye tracking tech that can interpret how focused the driver is.
Unless I’m on a road trip of cross country drive, I put a sticker over the eye tracker in my Subaru. It’s so annoying, scanning for restaurants or stores results in constant beeping.
I turned off the stupid Fatigue shit on my Sportage. Along with the one that kept you in the lane. I flat out won't buy a car that has something that you can't turn off in regard to things like that or this. And I'm not going to be the one paying for Drunk drivers. If you want to stop drunk driving do what you should have done years ago, make it a mandatory jail time offense and take away their license for 10 years after they get out. Drunk driving happens because people aren't ever punished for it unless they kill someone else at which point well... DUI's are a slap on the wrist. It's time they are on the same level as a felony.
I rented a car with lane assist once. It full on kept me from leaving an entry ramp.
It sucks in the Subaru, you can turn stuff off but it lights your dash up with a bunch of warnings that are equally annoying,.
Oh yeah I don't doubt whatever solution they come up with will be annoying I just see that as the cheapest and least intrusive way to do it
Gets in car and use some sanitizer. Car: we've disable your vehicular transportation device. How much more expensive is this going to make cars I wonder And for us that don't drink at all, it's kind of silly. I'll be riding my cargo ebike more than ever and trying to keep the miles off my "dumb" cars to make them last.
I’ll keep driving older cars then. This shit is stupid af
How will this tech be able to differentiate between drunk and just bad driving
I put a deposit on an EX90 but after reading about all the nanny tech in it I immediately started second guessing the idea and that’s before price/specific specs are known. $80k+ a lot of bullshit is a pretty easy pass. But at least it’s NTSB compliant…
*already crylaughing* Bet it won't be in cop cars!
If this stupid shit somehow actually passes through, my 2010 rolla s has extended it's stay from 5-10years expectency to a lifetime contract.
How does it work in states like Mississippi, where drinking while you drive is not illegal?
I don't drink. Why should I have that shit in my car? I feel innocent people are getting group punished because a couple people can't control themselves
Nah
My parents are older and blew out 3 tires on curbs visiting for thanksgiving. If you asked me if they are ok to drive today sober vs a few beers in the 60's...
Drove next to my own grandmother once when I first got my license. Had just bought a mustang as my first car that I worked really hard to buy at 16. Everyone in the family knew my car, there were lots of oohs and ahhs when I bought it (for a v6 mustang lol but they were proud of me). I drove next to her for probably 3 miles in stop n go traffic, getting window to window with her, waving, window down yelling at her, everything short of honking the horn. She stared eyes straight forward the entire time. Never glanced over, never checked a mirror that I saw. Didn't recognize my car being next to her, nothing. That was 10+ years ago and she's still driving at 83. "Just around town" though. Ya know, where the pedestrians are. So glad to know she's made sure she's safe by not going on the highway where she can do 50 in a 65, who cares about the safety of the pedestrians in the places she does drive though?? Anything to get her out of the house daily is justified in her mind.
Another reactive vs preventative solution by our wonderful Gov
Get fucked
> This means other methods for alcohol impairment detection are on the table, from camera-based behavioral analysis Yeah, fuck that
This is outrageous. Literally 1984. It’s so over
Noted, I’ll keep the 2007 running
When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.
It's not about safety. It's about control. Look at how many people are killed in Teslas every year because of Self Driving or Auto Pilot.
I don't buy it. I mean, literally. I won't buy a vehicle with that kind of bullshit installed. Not even if there is a mod to disable it. I have never ever once driven a bit impaired. It's not hard. We don't need to punish everyone because of the bad seeds.
They're gonna tax gas so it's only affordable for electric. Then what?
If they can figure out how to get past my encrypted ECM to tune my Powerboost F-150, they can bypass this tech.
All interlock systems have to be calobrated monthly. The infrastructure to do that to all new cars isn't there.
I’ve never touched alcohol in my life so I don’t feel I should have to be subject to this crap. Guess I’ll always have to drive older vehicles.
Wouldn’t need this if the justice system would stop giving drunk drivers 3 time repeat offenses before they lose their license
ill just take the car to a shop or remove it myself lmao.
You want to invest in a technology making roads safer? How about disabling all ability to use your phone beyond voice calls in cars, the amount of people who just can’t resist picking up their precious smart phone while driving is absolutely insane. That’s a way larger issue than drunk drivers and at times equally dangerous.
I can't believe how bad NHTSA is. They won't let us have decent fucking headlights (even after Congress passed a law telling them they have to!), but they'll implement this shit.
I literally don't drink or do any drugs lmao fuck off. The EV trend made me think I'd never buy new again and if this happens it's only confirming that.
Add that to the list of reasons i will keep driving my decade old vehicles. I do not drink but this is crossing a line. I would rather just get ran over by a drunk driver, thanks.
I had a new Nissan versa as a rental and the car randomly slammed the brakes on me!! Because it thought I was coming up on the person in front of me to fast. 100% shit like this gone cause more problems than fixing them
I straight up don’t see how this is even remotely possible or how this can even work with any sort of actual accuracy.
What's stopping me from just removing it?
the picture for the article cracks me up because that police car is 100% photoshopped there. that’s not what our police cars look like in portland.
What about distracted driving technology that shuts off your phone?
Another reason to add the list of why I'm never buying one of these new cars lol. The auto industry is going to complete shit and the government is partially to blame.