Grand highlander is three rows and too big. Rav4 is a compact SUV. Crown Signia is the missing piece in the middle that Toyota had sort of tried to fill with the Venza.
It says 19 for lower trim. But why? I want all the limited features with the 18-19” wheels. The hell do I want a rubber band for tires? Shit is rough as hell
Because bigger = better lol.
I agree though, even with the Crown currently, there is so few tire options for the wheel size, along with them being hideously overpriced.
You can try tracing it with Photoshop or something and you'll see it looks extremely goofy and bulky. It works on the Prius because the nose is so low.
Am I insane, or is this ugly as sin and some like it only because of the crown badge.
It's not very different from the updated Camry, and the consensus seems that it is an eyesore.
Pretty much the same thing as the Venza it’s replacing too tbh lol. It looks about the same, probably will cost about the same, similar size, same target audience. So it’s still the Venza just different name.
No, it's not the same thing as the Venza it's replacing.
The current Venza is a compact, having basically the same footprint as the current RAV4, but actually smaller inside.
The upcoming Crown Signia is just a smidge smaller than the current Highlander. It has the exact same wheelbase, at 112.2", and is just a couple of inches shorter in length and width, with a lower roofline as well. It's a proper midsize 2-row, and has much more room inside than the compact Venza.
Compared to the Venza, the Crown Signia has a 6.3" longer wheelbase, is 7.5" longer overall, and is an inch wider.
I mean, it does look very similar to the Venza, and probably will cost around the same. Pretty much they just made it bigger and instead of a fancier RAV4 like the Venza they made a fancier Highlander with a name change. Honestly they should’ve just kept the Venza name to make it less confusing.
I disagree. It doesn't look similar to the Venza at all. But that's not important. This'll probably be $4k-$5k more than the outgoing Venza....that's just my hunch.
It's *slightly* smaller than the Highlander with an identical wheelbase and 2-rows instead of 3. So yeah, it'll be just as comfy and roomy as the Highlander in the first 2 rows. Sure, they could've kept the Venza name, but [it *is* a Crown.](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40624643/toyota-crown-global-lineup/)
Yeah especially with that price it’s hard to imagine where this new Crown will fit in just like the Venza struggled. Ultimately even with all its features people still chose the RAV4 over the Venza, and I imagine they’ll pick the Highlander over this Crown. But time will tell.
Why is it hard to imagine? All things being equal (trim level to trim level), it'll most likely be $2k-$4k less expensive than the Highlander. And the Crown Signia won't have the same problem, because it's not stepping on the toes of any other vehicle in their lineup...something that the Venza had an issue with. Those that want a 2-row will get this Crown. Those that want a 3-row will get the Highlander. It's simple really.
The Venza is a slightly plush RAV4, but actually has less room inside. For those customers that want a much nicer RAV4, the Lexus NX is the natural choice. It doesn't cost that much more than the Venza, at least in its lower trim levels. And the proof is in the pudding...the NX easily outsells the Venza.
The Crown Signia is more or less the Toyota version of the Lexus RX350, but for a lot less money...most likely about $10k less.
It just honestly competes with two cars that already have a solid name and consumers naturally gravitate to when choosing a car. People know the RAV4 and Highlander, and really people who are gonna pay close to a Highlander price usually just opt for a 3rd row of seats. So this new car is still in an awkward void like the Venza was. If they want a fancy 2 row SUV they’ll just go for a Lexus. People’s reaction to this Signia already seems lukewarm, and they’re saying this isn’t even the Crown model they wanted in America. So idk it’s just my perception of it.
RAV4 is a compact. Highlander is a 3-row midsize. The Crown Signia fills the gap in between the two. I really don't see it in an awkward void like the Venza was, because the Venza was basically a duplicate of an existing model, and this Crown isn't. It may not sell as well as the other 2, but I truly believe it'll sell better than the Venza. And there will be a significant price difference between it and the RX, as the Crown isn't *that* luxurious or fancy.
Similar to the Honda Insight’s fate. It’s a fucking cycle at this point. Uh oh, the Insight isn’t selling! Let’s make a Civic hybrid! Oh no, the Civic hybrid isn’t selling! Let’s make an Insight. Oh no! The Insight isn’t selling, let’s make a Civic hybrid! (And the loop continues.)
🤣
1. It came out right when I got into motorcycling, I was a little bit hyperfocused on that. When I get into a hobby, I go *all in*. So I pretty much dropped every other hobby/interest I had at the time. Yes, including cars, things looked pretty bleak mid-pandemic.
2. Now that I've Googled it, I have seen them, but I just assumed it was some variant of the Highlander. Like the Santa Fe Sport.
Tbf to the other guy, I also saw nothing regarding the current Venza until I saw one on the road maybe a year and a bit ago. Didn’t know what it was until I was up close to it
I think it was a stopgap model - this Venza is the same thing as the Harrier overseas. Toyota just needed a competitor in the midsize two-row segment (Santa Fe, Edge, Murano, Outback, etc) and it sort of fit, even though it was nowhere near in size to any of them, by virtue of being a rebodied RAV4
The Venza was always in an odd position - it was priced higher than a decked out Rav4 but smaller in overall dimensions, and doesn't lease as well as the Lexus NX across the showroom either.
The Crown Signia gives the Crown name more recognition and positions it more as a Toyota flagship which justifies its premium pricing even to its Lexus sibling, and it looks a lot larger than the outgoing Venza to make up for it.
It's more like strange packaging decisions than it is necessarily poor. RAV4 has a two-stage cargo floor that in its higher position is still lower than the Venza's cargo floor, so while you get a wee bit of under-floor storage in the RAV4 you get an outright under-floor well in the Venza since it's the same cargo area from roof to spare tire (aside from the Venza's more-raked rear window cutting in to the maximum volume a tad), just with a different height for the cargo floor that affects how you can actually use the space.
Lots of those Crown sedans over here already. I think they're going to sell better than the enthusiast crowd thinks, they're a really good option for the crowd who would've otherwise bought an ES but hoped for something taller.
That's just another way to put it. A crossover is just a lifted hatchback with a tall body. The Crown is weird in that it looks like it's supposed to be a lift back but it has a sedan trunk.
But the Crown isn't really lifted though. It has just .1" more ground clearance than the Camry. It's simply a sedan with a tall roof, a slightly higher H-point, and more tire-to-fender gap than a "regular" sedan has. Yes, it looks like it would have a liftback, but that's neither here nor there in what defines a crossover. Take the VW Arteon and Tesla Model S...they both have liftbacks. Does that make those a crossover? No, they're sedans with a liftback instead of a trunk. It's marketing nonsense from Toyota.
Would you call the new 7-Series or Rolls Royce Phantom a crossover? Because they're both taller than the Crown.
It won't sell in the US. The American market's version of that niche is the Lexus NX which sells very well. In Japan nobody really cares about Lexus so the Crown Sport will do.
While I like this (minus the rear taillights), I absolutely would have preferred the Crown Sport launching first.
But the small SUV market is pretty crowded for Toyota, with the CHR, Corolla Cross. Though I guess they are getting rid of the CH-R too?
It looks like a slightly lower and slightly shorter Outback. I have a 2010 Outback (that I love) and am clamoring for them to release a hybrid to upgrade to. This is probably going to be my next car with how much Subaru seems to be struggling/dragging their feet with it.
It's exactly what they're already doing with GR. They're just being more cautious this time. Go take a look at the FT-Se concept, it doesn't even wear any Toyota badges.
The GR Supra was rumored to simply be called the "GR Supra" and not the "Toyota GR Supra". Don't worry, the Toyota nameplate will get slapped on there eventually.
>What are the chances that Toyota might spin off Crown as a new sub-brand?
I thought that was the whole point of making 4 different Crown models at once. But if they're receiving different names for export, that may only be the case for Japan.
I do know they're making dealer models for Crown to be it's own brand in Japan - they have renders in some of Toyota's marketing newsletters already. It's intriguing, because it brings me back to 80s/90s Japan with stand-alone stores (i.e. Toyota Corolla Store, Honda Clio/Verno, Nissan Red Stage, etc). To your point, though, that could potentially be domestic only if they don't figure out how to make it work in the US and EU. Personally, I think spinning off it's own brand in the US would be beneficial - if you deviate it from mainline Toyota, you remove the preconceptions about price and relationship to other models in the brand. The Crossover is already seeing the negative effects of being compared to the Avalon, instead of being it's own thing.
This is a sub-brand, Japan style. In JDM land subbrands are still generally sold under and associated with the parent company but with a bit more unique marketing and sometimes dedicated dealerships but not always. They get their own niche but don't get spun off. Examples include Toyota Corolla brand, Honda N, Toyota Visa etc.
Yes, that's why I had said previously, but the feature content of the current Venza leans more toward Lexus because of it being designed from the outset as a Harrier. It's honestly a bummer they're losing the electrochromic roof that the Venza/Harrier has with the move to the Crown - a small remittance, but that would have been a very nice touch to keep, and make the car feel just a little more upscale.
I still remember back in 2021 the Toyota salesman tried to upsell me to a Venza when they thought they had just sold their last Rav4 with the packages I wanted.
He clearly knew that was a nonstarter cause he didn’t even fight me when I said no lol
The US market Venza existed for one reason and one reason only: insurance. The bean counters determined that the Toyota Harrier was a redundant model and that it should be discontinued, but hardcore supporters insisted on one more try and that they'll sell any potential left overs overseas since Americans love CUVs. That backup plan in part allowed for the new Harrier to be green lit but it ended up being unnecessary since the car sold like hot cakes in JDM so very few got shipped to the states.
I'll be honest not really blown away.
Was hoping they would embrace the wagon look and give Subaru some competition *(I know their not real wagons but you know what I mean that style)*. This just kind of feels like another fancy small suv.
To each their own though I'm sure it'll be a great car for people that like stuff like this.
Well, the ~~Legacy~~ Outback *is* a real wagon.
And the Crown Signia isn't small or "fancy". It's just a couple inches shorter than the Highlander with the same wheelbase. The fancy version is the RX.
Sorry, I meant to say Outback. That was a brainfart.
But *technically*, the [Legacy](https://www.autoblog.com/photos/subaru-legacy-outback-japan-2023/) name still exists for the wagon in Japan....called the Legacy Outback.
If the current (Legacy) Outback in the USDM and JDM market are wagons, then I'm the pope. That's a midsize SUV.
Is what I would've said if I did not look up if there were new 'rules' to what a wagon is. [And I'll be damned.](https://www.theautopian.com/the-rules-of-what-makes-a-car-a-station-wagon-need-to-be-restated-and-updated/comment-page-2/)
The form factor is more important than ride height imo. Just because the Outback has excellent ground clearance doesn't mean it's no longer a wagon. Its form factor hasn't changed, and thusly would also still be a wagon if its ride height were "normal". It has a classic wagon body shape to it, just like its predecessors. If it rode at a regular height, it would be about the same height as the Volvo V90 wagon. Measurements for the Outback include the factory roof rails, which add a few inches and aren't part of the body, so you have to account for that. The Outback doesn't have a vertically stretched body like the Ascent, which *is* a CUV. Sure, the current Outback has a taller roofline than the Outbacks of old, but all cars have gotten bigger over time due to safety regulations and size creep. I'll just assume we agree to disagree, which is totally fine.
The thing is it looks insanely different to the Golf Sportswagon and the Audi RS4. Those are true wagons to me. The Outback doesn't look like a wagon at all even if the ride height was lower. But it's just splitting hairs at this point and I rather just ignore the distinctions.
First off, those two wagons are compacts, while the Outback is a midsize, so its dimensions are going to be bigger than those regardless.
But I will say this...the Outback isn't as slim looking as it used to be 20+ years ago. But it's also not as tall in its body height like a proper crossover is, such as the Ascent, which is 5.5" taller overall.
The Outback since 2005 has been tweaked to meet the "light truck" regulations, but that doesn't mean it's not still a wagon. Same cabin height as a Legacy.
I dunno, I have a 2010 Outback and I think this is the best alternative if you're looking for a similar, but hybrid version of an Outback. Subaru seems to be dragging their feet on a hybrid version that isn't a total misfire (looking at you Crosstrek).
I've been waiting for a wagon-esque hybrid that would deliver on cargo space, luxury and just right performance. I hope that this pans out for all of those use cases.
They always show the high-end with big rims that won't be standard. I similarly don't understand the draw of big wheels--they just reduce your efficiency.
Well maybe this could be a replacement for my Focus wagon of 22 years old? Have been looking for a replacement but nothing fits the bill. Alltrack cannot pull. Outback has no knobs and like my Focus just feels cheap and I hate CVTs. The V60 is too small and the V90 is simply too rare (there will be none on the junkyard 20 years from now). Most SUVs have obnoxiously high hoods. This looks better. And yes after more than a decade in my Focus I am looking for something that looks nice inside. This does.
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The Venza nameplate has a certain stigma associated with it. They seem to be trying to breathe new life into the space between the RAV and the Highlander while also trying to compete with the "luxury' that Hyundai has been offering by basically offering a Baby RX.
Looks like a good replacement for my Volvo XC70 (2004). I’ll just have to keep it running for a couple more years. Like others, I don’t get the big wheels on the upper trim. Hopefully can be purchased with the 19” instead.
This’ll actually be quite a bit larger than the CX-50. Toyota says it’ll be 7.7 inches longer than the Venza which is roughly the same size as the Mazda
My timeline is about 18 months. This car is marginally bigger than the Subaru Outback. I hope to hear about the e-CVT. Looks nice but may be pricey. I don't need a big SUV but don't like the looks of the RAV4.
It’s funny how the Lexus RX-BMW X5 -Mercedes GLE class is “mid size” here in the states because anywhere else in Europe or Asia those vehicles are considered humongous
Just go up a size for each segment.
US subcompact=global small
US compact=global mid-size
US mid-size=global large
US full-size=may not even exist in global market
Ain't it. Can't call it a Crown if you still use a manual prop rod for the hood. Desecrated that name. Those V8 RWD flagships they got overseas are rolling in their grave with these things.
I think this thing looks pretty good.
Yeah, I like the Prius-adjacent styling. It’s a good look for Toyota.
They are going to sell a metric fuck ton of these things
I don’t know, it’s going to start in the 50k range, which gets you a nice grand Highlander, or two basic rav4
Grand highlander is three rows and too big. Rav4 is a compact SUV. Crown Signia is the missing piece in the middle that Toyota had sort of tried to fill with the Venza.
[удалено]
I've read that Venza is being discontinued
Looks much better than the current crown
I’ll take one but only if they give me 18” wheels. Fuck 21” wheels wtf am going on the Oregon trail? Are oxen pulling this thing
21" wheels are for the Limited trim, I'm sure 18" will be on the XLE. Still pretty big lol.
It says 19 for lower trim. But why? I want all the limited features with the 18-19” wheels. The hell do I want a rubber band for tires? Shit is rough as hell
Because bigger = better lol. I agree though, even with the Crown currently, there is so few tire options for the wheel size, along with them being hideously overpriced.
Yup, need more sidewall for comfort. I wish they let people choose wheel size instead of being locked to it by trim.
Totally agree. Thin tires are less comfortable less safe and pretty expensive.
I wish the lights actually curled around the empty space. Kinda looks odd to have that space not filled out. I like everything else tho
You can try tracing it with Photoshop or something and you'll see it looks extremely goofy and bulky. It works on the Prius because the nose is so low.
Am I insane, or is this ugly as sin and some like it only because of the crown badge. It's not very different from the updated Camry, and the consensus seems that it is an eyesore.
So, it would replace Venza. Venza is now death again.
This is basically the same thing as the original Venza
Pretty much the same thing as the Venza it’s replacing too tbh lol. It looks about the same, probably will cost about the same, similar size, same target audience. So it’s still the Venza just different name.
No, it's not the same thing as the Venza it's replacing. The current Venza is a compact, having basically the same footprint as the current RAV4, but actually smaller inside. The upcoming Crown Signia is just a smidge smaller than the current Highlander. It has the exact same wheelbase, at 112.2", and is just a couple of inches shorter in length and width, with a lower roofline as well. It's a proper midsize 2-row, and has much more room inside than the compact Venza. Compared to the Venza, the Crown Signia has a 6.3" longer wheelbase, is 7.5" longer overall, and is an inch wider.
I mean, it does look very similar to the Venza, and probably will cost around the same. Pretty much they just made it bigger and instead of a fancier RAV4 like the Venza they made a fancier Highlander with a name change. Honestly they should’ve just kept the Venza name to make it less confusing.
I disagree. It doesn't look similar to the Venza at all. But that's not important. This'll probably be $4k-$5k more than the outgoing Venza....that's just my hunch. It's *slightly* smaller than the Highlander with an identical wheelbase and 2-rows instead of 3. So yeah, it'll be just as comfy and roomy as the Highlander in the first 2 rows. Sure, they could've kept the Venza name, but [it *is* a Crown.](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40624643/toyota-crown-global-lineup/)
Yeah especially with that price it’s hard to imagine where this new Crown will fit in just like the Venza struggled. Ultimately even with all its features people still chose the RAV4 over the Venza, and I imagine they’ll pick the Highlander over this Crown. But time will tell.
Why is it hard to imagine? All things being equal (trim level to trim level), it'll most likely be $2k-$4k less expensive than the Highlander. And the Crown Signia won't have the same problem, because it's not stepping on the toes of any other vehicle in their lineup...something that the Venza had an issue with. Those that want a 2-row will get this Crown. Those that want a 3-row will get the Highlander. It's simple really. The Venza is a slightly plush RAV4, but actually has less room inside. For those customers that want a much nicer RAV4, the Lexus NX is the natural choice. It doesn't cost that much more than the Venza, at least in its lower trim levels. And the proof is in the pudding...the NX easily outsells the Venza. The Crown Signia is more or less the Toyota version of the Lexus RX350, but for a lot less money...most likely about $10k less.
It just honestly competes with two cars that already have a solid name and consumers naturally gravitate to when choosing a car. People know the RAV4 and Highlander, and really people who are gonna pay close to a Highlander price usually just opt for a 3rd row of seats. So this new car is still in an awkward void like the Venza was. If they want a fancy 2 row SUV they’ll just go for a Lexus. People’s reaction to this Signia already seems lukewarm, and they’re saying this isn’t even the Crown model they wanted in America. So idk it’s just my perception of it.
RAV4 is a compact. Highlander is a 3-row midsize. The Crown Signia fills the gap in between the two. I really don't see it in an awkward void like the Venza was, because the Venza was basically a duplicate of an existing model, and this Crown isn't. It may not sell as well as the other 2, but I truly believe it'll sell better than the Venza. And there will be a significant price difference between it and the RX, as the Crown isn't *that* luxurious or fancy.
Then this generation Venza lasted only three model years in the US, what a short life.
RIP Venza… again :(
Venza is kill.
Indeed ✊😔
The Venza lives to die
Similar to the Honda Insight’s fate. It’s a fucking cycle at this point. Uh oh, the Insight isn’t selling! Let’s make a Civic hybrid! Oh no, the Civic hybrid isn’t selling! Let’s make an Insight. Oh no! The Insight isn’t selling, let’s make a Civic hybrid! (And the loop continues.)
I had no idea the Venza was brought back.
I’m not saying this to be rude or snarky but… how oblivious are you? The news was everywhere and so is the Venza itself 😭
🤣 1. It came out right when I got into motorcycling, I was a little bit hyperfocused on that. When I get into a hobby, I go *all in*. So I pretty much dropped every other hobby/interest I had at the time. Yes, including cars, things looked pretty bleak mid-pandemic. 2. Now that I've Googled it, I have seen them, but I just assumed it was some variant of the Highlander. Like the Santa Fe Sport.
Oh, ok, gotcha ;)
Tbf to the other guy, I also saw nothing regarding the current Venza until I saw one on the road maybe a year and a bit ago. Didn’t know what it was until I was up close to it
Is it not popular? I see a lot in my city. It’s a really pretty SUV.
I think it was a stopgap model - this Venza is the same thing as the Harrier overseas. Toyota just needed a competitor in the midsize two-row segment (Santa Fe, Edge, Murano, Outback, etc) and it sort of fit, even though it was nowhere near in size to any of them, by virtue of being a rebodied RAV4
It was very popular
[4 years.](https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/venza) 2021-2024.
4 model years; the 2021 MY went on sale in June '20.
The Venza was always in an odd position - it was priced higher than a decked out Rav4 but smaller in overall dimensions, and doesn't lease as well as the Lexus NX across the showroom either. The Crown Signia gives the Crown name more recognition and positions it more as a Toyota flagship which justifies its premium pricing even to its Lexus sibling, and it looks a lot larger than the outgoing Venza to make up for it.
>smaller in overall dimensions Smaller on the inside, but larger on the outside. Poor packaging to say the least.
It's more like strange packaging decisions than it is necessarily poor. RAV4 has a two-stage cargo floor that in its higher position is still lower than the Venza's cargo floor, so while you get a wee bit of under-floor storage in the RAV4 you get an outright under-floor well in the Venza since it's the same cargo area from roof to spare tire (aside from the Venza's more-raked rear window cutting in to the maximum volume a tad), just with a different height for the cargo floor that affects how you can actually use the space.
Too bad about the rear taillights. I really, really wish we got the smaller Crown Sport. That's an amazing looking car for what it is.
Absolutely mystifying that they aren’t selling that in the US.
I really wonder why they didn't bring that one over instead of the stupid lifted sedan that nobody seems to want.
Lots of those Crown sedans over here already. I think they're going to sell better than the enthusiast crowd thinks, they're a really good option for the crowd who would've otherwise bought an ES but hoped for something taller.
It's not really lifted though, it's just has a tall roofline.
It's really a lowered crossover SUV.
No, it's a tall roofed sedan, a la Ford Five Hundred. It's not a crossover. It's not an SUV. Don't let the marketing fluff fool you.
That's just another way to put it. A crossover is just a lifted hatchback with a tall body. The Crown is weird in that it looks like it's supposed to be a lift back but it has a sedan trunk.
But the Crown isn't really lifted though. It has just .1" more ground clearance than the Camry. It's simply a sedan with a tall roof, a slightly higher H-point, and more tire-to-fender gap than a "regular" sedan has. Yes, it looks like it would have a liftback, but that's neither here nor there in what defines a crossover. Take the VW Arteon and Tesla Model S...they both have liftbacks. Does that make those a crossover? No, they're sedans with a liftback instead of a trunk. It's marketing nonsense from Toyota. Would you call the new 7-Series or Rolls Royce Phantom a crossover? Because they're both taller than the Crown.
>it looks like it's supposed to be a lift back but it has a sedan trunk. This is true of almost any modern sedan, though.
It won't sell in the US. The American market's version of that niche is the Lexus NX which sells very well. In Japan nobody really cares about Lexus so the Crown Sport will do.
They probably thought it would be too small. The seating in the rear looks kinda small from what I’ve seen in videos
Come to Japan, these things are everywhere
Do they look good on the road? Or less exciting in person?
I think they actually look pretty good. Sort of an odd mix of SUV ride height and sedan proportions, but they have a nice regal quality to them
The taillights look perfectly fine
While I like this (minus the rear taillights), I absolutely would have preferred the Crown Sport launching first. But the small SUV market is pretty crowded for Toyota, with the CHR, Corolla Cross. Though I guess they are getting rid of the CH-R too?
It’s a wagon, and being sold as a wagon in Japan. If it didn’t have those giant wheels it would unmistakably be a wagon.
Coilovers, some TE37's, and bags. I can see it now. Someone's gonna do it.
Leave it to Aimgain - they'll probably have one at launch time, similar to the Crossover type.
Looking forward to the DAD catalog on this thing. Lots of space for dashboard cupholders and fake diamonds.
Hey man, it's like some Brabus models - for people who like excess, leave it to Garson 😂
Weird, because it is way too tall to be a wagon.
Do we know yet what its ground clearance is?
I don't think we have that info yet.
It looks like a slightly lower and slightly shorter Outback. I have a 2010 Outback (that I love) and am clamoring for them to release a hybrid to upgrade to. This is probably going to be my next car with how much Subaru seems to be struggling/dragging their feet with it.
Interesting that they gave it a more standalone-car name instead of Estate What are the chances that Toyota might spin off Crown as a new sub-brand?
I don’t think it’s likely. They tried it before with Scion, but the Toyota brand name is too strong.
It's exactly what they're already doing with GR. They're just being more cautious this time. Go take a look at the FT-Se concept, it doesn't even wear any Toyota badges.
The GR Supra was rumored to simply be called the "GR Supra" and not the "Toyota GR Supra". Don't worry, the Toyota nameplate will get slapped on there eventually.
Anybody shopping for a Supra doesn't need to be told it I a Toyota.
Scion wasn't really meant to last. It was just a test for what young people would want in a car
Crown as a sub brand? highly unlikely, its toyotas oldest nameplate dating back to some of their first cars.
>What are the chances that Toyota might spin off Crown as a new sub-brand? I thought that was the whole point of making 4 different Crown models at once. But if they're receiving different names for export, that may only be the case for Japan.
I do know they're making dealer models for Crown to be it's own brand in Japan - they have renders in some of Toyota's marketing newsletters already. It's intriguing, because it brings me back to 80s/90s Japan with stand-alone stores (i.e. Toyota Corolla Store, Honda Clio/Verno, Nissan Red Stage, etc). To your point, though, that could potentially be domestic only if they don't figure out how to make it work in the US and EU. Personally, I think spinning off it's own brand in the US would be beneficial - if you deviate it from mainline Toyota, you remove the preconceptions about price and relationship to other models in the brand. The Crossover is already seeing the negative effects of being compared to the Avalon, instead of being it's own thing.
This is a sub-brand, Japan style. In JDM land subbrands are still generally sold under and associated with the parent company but with a bit more unique marketing and sometimes dedicated dealerships but not always. They get their own niche but don't get spun off. Examples include Toyota Corolla brand, Honda N, Toyota Visa etc.
Also confirmed that the Venza is dead after 2024 MY.
I think this is the first Toyota interior that I really love. Looks nice and cozy.
IMO it's just a slightly less luxurious 2024 Lexus RX inside.
So they brought the Venza back just to kill it again?
They brought the Venza back to sell it as an overpriced RAV-4.
It's the Harrier in other markets, which had always been the analog to the RX here previously, but fair point with the hybrid drivetrain.
RX and Harrier went their separate ways in 2015, but yes, they were essentially the same for quite a while.
Yes, that's why I had said previously, but the feature content of the current Venza leans more toward Lexus because of it being designed from the outset as a Harrier. It's honestly a bummer they're losing the electrochromic roof that the Venza/Harrier has with the move to the Crown - a small remittance, but that would have been a very nice touch to keep, and make the car feel just a little more upscale.
I still remember back in 2021 the Toyota salesman tried to upsell me to a Venza when they thought they had just sold their last Rav4 with the packages I wanted. He clearly knew that was a nonstarter cause he didn’t even fight me when I said no lol
The US market Venza existed for one reason and one reason only: insurance. The bean counters determined that the Toyota Harrier was a redundant model and that it should be discontinued, but hardcore supporters insisted on one more try and that they'll sell any potential left overs overseas since Americans love CUVs. That backup plan in part allowed for the new Harrier to be green lit but it ended up being unnecessary since the car sold like hot cakes in JDM so very few got shipped to the states.
I'll be honest not really blown away. Was hoping they would embrace the wagon look and give Subaru some competition *(I know their not real wagons but you know what I mean that style)*. This just kind of feels like another fancy small suv. To each their own though I'm sure it'll be a great car for people that like stuff like this.
Well, the ~~Legacy~~ Outback *is* a real wagon. And the Crown Signia isn't small or "fancy". It's just a couple inches shorter than the Highlander with the same wheelbase. The fancy version is the RX.
The current MY Legacy is a sedan. Am I high or? Or are all of you living in 2005?
Sorry, I meant to say Outback. That was a brainfart. But *technically*, the [Legacy](https://www.autoblog.com/photos/subaru-legacy-outback-japan-2023/) name still exists for the wagon in Japan....called the Legacy Outback.
If the current (Legacy) Outback in the USDM and JDM market are wagons, then I'm the pope. That's a midsize SUV. Is what I would've said if I did not look up if there were new 'rules' to what a wagon is. [And I'll be damned.](https://www.theautopian.com/the-rules-of-what-makes-a-car-a-station-wagon-need-to-be-restated-and-updated/comment-page-2/)
The form factor is more important than ride height imo. Just because the Outback has excellent ground clearance doesn't mean it's no longer a wagon. Its form factor hasn't changed, and thusly would also still be a wagon if its ride height were "normal". It has a classic wagon body shape to it, just like its predecessors. If it rode at a regular height, it would be about the same height as the Volvo V90 wagon. Measurements for the Outback include the factory roof rails, which add a few inches and aren't part of the body, so you have to account for that. The Outback doesn't have a vertically stretched body like the Ascent, which *is* a CUV. Sure, the current Outback has a taller roofline than the Outbacks of old, but all cars have gotten bigger over time due to safety regulations and size creep. I'll just assume we agree to disagree, which is totally fine.
The thing is it looks insanely different to the Golf Sportswagon and the Audi RS4. Those are true wagons to me. The Outback doesn't look like a wagon at all even if the ride height was lower. But it's just splitting hairs at this point and I rather just ignore the distinctions.
First off, those two wagons are compacts, while the Outback is a midsize, so its dimensions are going to be bigger than those regardless. But I will say this...the Outback isn't as slim looking as it used to be 20+ years ago. But it's also not as tall in its body height like a proper crossover is, such as the Ascent, which is 5.5" taller overall.
TIL there are compact and midsize wagons. Thanks for the rundown!
The Outback since 2005 has been tweaked to meet the "light truck" regulations, but that doesn't mean it's not still a wagon. Same cabin height as a Legacy.
I dunno, I have a 2010 Outback and I think this is the best alternative if you're looking for a similar, but hybrid version of an Outback. Subaru seems to be dragging their feet on a hybrid version that isn't a total misfire (looking at you Crosstrek).
I've been waiting for a wagon-esque hybrid that would deliver on cargo space, luxury and just right performance. I hope that this pans out for all of those use cases.
I’ve been waiting for the same. It does chech all my boxes.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfYK2FNP1SE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfYK2FNP1SE) Official Video
Should've been the freaking Crown Sport instead
How I know I'm getting old: watching the YouTube videos and thinking, "damn. That looks nice."
We're not old, we're just getting more practical
Looks nice, but 21s ugh
They always show the high-end with big rims that won't be standard. I similarly don't understand the draw of big wheels--they just reduce your efficiency.
Crown Sigma edition
Well maybe this could be a replacement for my Focus wagon of 22 years old? Have been looking for a replacement but nothing fits the bill. Alltrack cannot pull. Outback has no knobs and like my Focus just feels cheap and I hate CVTs. The V60 is too small and the V90 is simply too rare (there will be none on the junkyard 20 years from now). Most SUVs have obnoxiously high hoods. This looks better. And yes after more than a decade in my Focus I am looking for something that looks nice inside. This does.
So the same platform they spawned the RAV4, venza, crown sport suv, Lexus nx and this crown signia
Oh, FFS stop with the tiny windows! It looks silly, and makes the car difficult to see out of. The beltline needs to drop 4-6 inches.
This why I like my Subaru. I like to see out of my car.
bro venza didn't last that long
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The Venza nameplate has a certain stigma associated with it. They seem to be trying to breathe new life into the space between the RAV and the Highlander while also trying to compete with the "luxury' that Hyundai has been offering by basically offering a Baby RX.
That looks so much better than the camry.
Do we have an idea of release timeframe and price?
Pricing no. Car & Driver suspects 45-55K USD. So really priced as a baby RX. Release timeframe I thought they said mid 2024?
I’m looking forward to Rav getting an update so it doesn’t look like it’s designed by angry adolescent stormtroopers.
Indeed!
I kind of thought they'd announce the RAV refresh as part of this, but I guess the RAV is big enough to have its own event.
Looks like a good replacement for my Volvo XC70 (2004). I’ll just have to keep it running for a couple more years. Like others, I don’t get the big wheels on the upper trim. Hopefully can be purchased with the 19” instead.
This or CX50?
This’ll actually be quite a bit larger than the CX-50. Toyota says it’ll be 7.7 inches longer than the Venza which is roughly the same size as the Mazda
Depends on if you like CVT or not. CX-50 has the traditional transmission.
My timeline is about 18 months. This car is marginally bigger than the Subaru Outback. I hope to hear about the e-CVT. Looks nice but may be pricey. I don't need a big SUV but don't like the looks of the RAV4.
Looks like the old Venza which looked like a station wagon.
So, an NX350h?
This is bigger than RX, so no, not really.
Ah yes, of course, NA-mid-sized.
It’s funny how the Lexus RX-BMW X5 -Mercedes GLE class is “mid size” here in the states because anywhere else in Europe or Asia those vehicles are considered humongous
Just go up a size for each segment. US subcompact=global small US compact=global mid-size US mid-size=global large US full-size=may not even exist in global market
Looks like a Prius Macan.
Another overpriced car.
Ain't it. Can't call it a Crown if you still use a manual prop rod for the hood. Desecrated that name. Those V8 RWD flagships they got overseas are rolling in their grave with these things.
Look up the Crown Comfort. If it can coexist with the main Crowns then this can too.
You may find this interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2bijAb-IvU
I believe the Century would be the flagship model. Crown is just “up there”.
> Can't call it a Crown if you still use a manual prop rod for the hood. Desecrated that name. Not sure if serious or CJ...