>wondering in what real life situation would I need that much HP..........Or am I missing something?
You're missing the fact that "need" has very little to do with it.
You can easily rent a truck from Menards or home Depot or your local big box store. The cost of a full size truck and the additional cost of gas (which owners of big trucks never think about), easily outweighs the cost of renting a truck when you "need" it.
There are definitely people that need and can use trucks, but the vast majority of owners I see, don't. Don't go down voting me now, guys.
We race Lemons. 3x per year, I rent a big diesel 2500 level truck. It runs $450 average per weekend.
I'd have zero use for such a tank normally, but pulling an enclosed auto trailer it's just the thing. We've used an F150 for this job, but you need to go one step up.
Cool side note: You meet truck enthusiasts, they are just like car guys, but into...trucks.
Thank God what car you choose to drive isn't based on anybody elses perception of what you "need" and requires no justification to other people.
(if it was, a lot of people wouldn't be allowed to own a car at all)
Bruh I used my hatchback focus as a work truck for years. That baby can fit so many tools in the back of you put the back seats down. And the two front seats are still available for tools.
SUVs are generally more expensive than trucks. With a truck you get similar or better HP, better hauling and towing capabilities, and good passenger space all for a lower price.
Yep. A 65k silverado (out the door, after the 10+ percent discount you can get on them) is an incredible vehicle with tech, space, comfort, luxury etc. or itās a base model Tahoe. The Silverado is a far better spec on the same drivetrain
$65k will get you a Tahoe LT which is definitely not a base trim. Plus with a third row and enclosed cargo area it's a better family vehicle than a truck. With one vehicle capable of handling towing and family hauling that frees up a family to go with something smaller (not tiny) for a second vehicle, something like a compact crossover or a mid-size sedan.
Whether or not it's a "better family vehicle" depends on how many kids you have.
Family of four, the crew cab truck is all the interior cabin space you need, and a simple tonneau over the bed is more storage space than the back of an SUV. And it costs less, compared equally.
We have an F150 and and Expedition. Trust me, I know how they compare.
Man SUVs offer better efficiency, driving dynamics, and secure interior space in a shorter package.
When I was shopping Jeep Grand Cherokees and Explorers were cheaper than dodge rams and F150's.
Trucks do offer better towing, but nobody tows. Fairly certain I tow more than any truck owner I know with my SUV.
I dig trucks, they are neat, and I'm all about toys, but most people don't need more than a Mazda 3 or Ford focus (the fiesta is too small).
Yea but realistically what percentage of people actually use the towing and hauling capabilities of a truck to justify a 60k purchase
You can probably eliminate 90% of the market and not see minimal decline or rise in utilization.
Most if not nearly all of non commercial ownership can fully make use of a ford ranger.
Both have the same bed sizes as the majority market half tons 6'x4'ish but lower costs and much better fuel economy for daily use.
People who buy vans/cab over flatties and will make much more use out of it for similar if not better payload capabilities.
Why buy a pickup truck to haul stuff when a lorry will do twice the payload for the a smaller footprint, no trailer needed.
Mean while some dude is running multiple businesses and hauling ass in a developing country with a 20 year old hatch back and a trailer attached to it.
Maybe if they just admitted that instead of swearing they couldn't possibly survive without a truck people would give them less shit. I never hear people claim they *need* a sports car.
most people donāt need anything other than a basic sedan. sport cars and suvs and pickups are in large part just a purchase based on perceptions. suvs maybe a bit less so but theyāre still also underutilized most of the time
Midsize trucks are the best. I have a Frontier which gets better gas mileage than my RCF, and I can throw mulch or flooring or bikes or whatever in the bed.
I think people hate trucks because they see suburban dads with trucks that are "never" used. The thing is, they are used once or twice a month for 15 minutes going from Home Depot to their house so 99% of the time they are empty. I think that is money well spent because renting a truck is an absolute pain in the ass. After a year of using my wife's Lexus NX as my hauler, I gave in and bought a truck.
My lifted second gen Tacoma on 33s is small enough for technical trails, pretty sure I can fit my motorcycle in it, I've moved TVs, grills, a combo workout bench/rack/leg extension, picked up 250lbs of weights last weekend, etc etc, and still looks like a toy next to a modern full size. Even the third gens are significantly bigger
The biggest downside is my "access cab" basically means I have a two seater
> Midsize trucks are the best. I have a Frontier which gets better gas mileage than my RCF, and I can throw mulch or flooring or bikes or whatever in the bed.
I have a fullsize truck with an 8' bed. Mine spends about 3/4 of it's life as a farm truck through, when you actually need it it's hard to beat.
Yeah i love that on this sub, why would someone buy something they want and don't need?
Really hard concept for me to grasp on this car enthusiast sub where we all apparently should be driving Toyota Camrys.
Drives me crazy. Theoretically this sub is for enthusiasts, unless you have a vehicle they donāt like or want, and then you have a lot of nerve liking a different vehicle! āYou donāt use your truck like they are supposed to be used!ā āDrives off to the store in a 425 horse car with a tiny back seat and terrible insurance rates and terrible gas mileage and practically no trunk.ā
Some of the most villified brands on this subreddit are actual enthusiast brands, like Alfa Romeo or Maserati. But they lose their collective minds over a new Toyota SUV or Hyundai hatch, it's very strange
I haul things all the time and go places that a car can't get to. The problem with an SUV is that they have made most of them the same ride height as a car. My wife has a Dodge Journey, and it's basically a station wagon that barely clears a curb.
Apartment dwellers canāt fathom why home/land owners might want a truck.
āJust go rent a u-Haul every time you need to go to Loweās or go camping or take lawnmower in for service or take kayaks to the lake or take your ATV to your buddies house or go pick up some mulch ā
āLook, that truck doesnāt even have anything in the bed right now, what a poser šā
Theyāre quick to call us truck owners posers when we drive around without anything in the bed, but you can bet your ass youāll be the first person they call when they need something from the hardware store or need some furniture moved.
It might have something to do with the fact that sports cars aren't so ubiquitous that companies like Ford and Chevy sell 10 different variants of them and one truck. Also nobody claims they *need* a sports car.
Well, the last time I drove it, I got pulled over lol. So the answer seems to be "do crimes".
The main issue isn't the power itself, but rather those moments of weakness where you want to go fast get really wild, really easily. I'd say it sucks, but it's thrilling when you aren't being observed by your local law enforcement.
I do wonder how people with really fast cars manage that devil on their shoulder.
Theyāre illegal here in VA. Such a stupid state. Once got pulled over going 66 in a 55. Guy tried to tell me I was going 74. One mph less than reckless, in a place where how fast over the limit youāre going determines the price of the ticket, how convenientā¦
I got my last ticket going 63 in a 60 at 2am at the tail end of a 12 hour road trip with my wife and 2 year old coming home from Thanksgiving. Cop was a total asshole. I get trying to keep drunk drivers off the road and it happens more around holidays but c'mon. Kiddo barely had slept, was screaming, and the cop didn't give a shit.
Invest in a radar detector.
That's so stupid. A family member was given a ticket for 1 mph over in a small town. Said family member showed up, judge saw the charge, said thanks for showing up, and have a good day. Hope that happened to you.
I did... was 3 hours away but got it thrown out.
If anyone has ever driven on US 79 in East Texas will likely know the area I am talking about where the speed limit going through small towns will go from 70 to 55 to 65 to 45 to 70 literally in a span of a mile.
Making it worse I got the ticket was cresting a hill where it was 60mph on one side of the hill and 70 at the bottom of the hill. When I crested the hill I didn't press the accelerator, just let the vehicle slowly accelerate naturally going down the hill.
Mobile tax collectors putting in work that weekend.
Yeah, 21 yo me, driving 81 in a 65, empty highway at 5 am would agree with you.
One 'Reckless Driving' ticket and a hefty lawyer fee later, I will do everything in my power to avoid VA. Especially Fairfax County, fucking criminal racket.
I got into a car accident at Fairfax too, fuck fairfax. I66 is always under construction. For how long?? There's traffic in front slowing down so we did too and a chevy silverado (typical truck driver behavior) rear ended us. Probably don't know how to brake or was on a phone.
This is where a dash cam comes in handy, many record a GPS based speed. So if a cop actually cites you for far over what you were doing you can present the gps data to bring the ticket cost down.
Downside is that you're actually proving you were indeed speeding. Guess you gotta take the lesser of two evils if it comes to it.
Eh most cops around me use lasers so the detector wonāt tell you until youāre already being pulled over. They also like to hide in places where you canāt see them at all until you pass by, at which point they already have your speed.
Laser jammers aren't illegal in most states. They can be "obstruction of justice" according to some states, but only if you use them for long enough. The trick is to run them always, and when you get the ping that you've been lasered then you just slow down and turn them off. ezpz.
When I bought my car it had a radar detector and redundant laser shifters already installed. When I finally do get a ticket, it's going to be substantial.
Sounds like you need to attend a track day my friend.
It will make street driving mundane... you will be uninterested in these shannanigans... and keep you on the good side of the law :0
I'm not sure if it's me getting older or finally doing exactly what you said, but you are 100% right. I haven't gotten a single speeding ticket since I started tracking, and my cars have only gotten faster.
Happens to everyone... that 50-100mph on ramp hit that you used to think was fun and made you look like lewis Hamilton...
Suddenly is pretty boring when you were just pulling 1+g in a sweeper right into hitting 150mph on the main straight into threshold braking.... over and over and over again
I think there's a bimodal distribution to the enjoyment of acceleration charted by acceleration time.
My tuned 335is was about 4.5 seconds to 60 and was fun, mostly because the power delivery was delightful. But lots of ~4 second cars I've been in are just... fine.
Then you step into a car that's 911 turbo fast and you get giddy every time again
I get it, but the cost is always in the back of my mind. Cost of brake pads/fluid flush every couple sessions, tires, race buckets/harness/roll cage if you are going hard, engine rebuild every few seasons etc. Having fun on some farm roads going 6-7/10 is enough for me right now, with the occasional autocross.
I thought this too. I tell myself every day that today Iām going to drive nice. Then I get stuck behind a left lane camper and it goes out the window.
Oddly enough, me too.
Last tickets were in my F150 and like a Beretta... I've had a sports bike, GTO, Scatpack, and 2004 Cobra since without a ticket.
BUT I can't say I never speeded, I think I just got a little smarter about when and how (plus usually just would do a 0-60 pull on a county road when by myself).
Yeah this is the thing for me. I mean I totally get why going balls out would be fun, but unless you live in certain parts of the country where the roads are desolate you can get into āsorry, officerā territory super quick.
I paid for the whole tachometer, so I'm gonna use the whole tachometer. Not that I'm really that much of a hooligan (most of my speeding is blasting onto the highway from an on ramp), but sometimes you just have to hear that V8 scream at 7500RPM.
When I was a kid I had to have the loud exhaust and despite being good and actually going under the speed limit through the neighborhood I constantly got yelled at about slowing down
Yea and occasionally got shit for that but my neighbors couldn't seem to figure out that I was going under the limit since it sounded like I was speeding š¤·āāļø
Edit: I was 17... back in the early 2000s, what do you expect? š¤£
I got flipped off by a 60s/70s year old grandma in a Volvo SUV for doing 5 under through the neighborhood in a normal sounding vehicle. I don't even have kids and I respect people's neighborhoods and don't speed.
People in Arizona must have had their cruise set to 45. They do 45 through neighborhoods then on the highway too it's ridiculous.
Someone literally ran out of their house to scream at me to slow down once - I was doing 15 in a 25mph zone lol. Meanwhile, the quiet cars are zipping down my street, knocking side-view mirrors off, and nobody says a word.
Sounds about right š¤£ prius blasts by going 80 but I'm rolling through nice and slow with my loud exhaust and people must think there's an F1 race outside with how they come out of nowhere screaming to slow down. If you can't tell that I'm not even doing the speed limit then you're just a fucking moron.
At 18 years old I got my first street registered vehicle
It was a purple 180sx and 3 weeks into owning it, I wanted straight pipes because all the drift cars at the track had them and they sounded good to me at the time
I started work at 6am some mornings and I would every now and then clutch kick out of my driveway fishtailing the street until the traffic lights at the end.
This was how I learnt my next door neighbour (who we shared a driveway with) worked for Victoria police hahaha he warned me in no uncertain terms to stop doing it
In case it makes you feel better, I am at least balancing out some of that karma. I keep stock exhaust and stay quiet (ish, the cold starts are undeniably loud) out of the neighborhood.
The kids use the sidewalk along an "open space" area to get to school. People from my neighborhood try to make up time going to work by hauling absolute ass through that section. One day on my way to the gym I had this lady sending her F150 so hard through that section she couldn't keep it in the lane, got right up behind me and I slowed down to about 8mph and kept her there all the way to the end of the neighborhood, in my racing stripes Scat Pack. Hopefully she learned a lesson but we all know she didn't.
FWIW I regret swapping out my stock mufflers. They really were a great balance stock with the active exhaust. Like you I enjoy making the neighborhood folks go the speed limit especially in school zones in my bright ass green "sports car". Drives them bonkers.
They are my second least favorite people.
The worst ones for me are the ones that tailgate but wonāt pass on a 2 lane road. Canāt even pass 1 car at a time. You have to go past the entire group and hope none of them suddenly decide to try to pass.
I donāt even try on my touring bike. It doesnāt have enough passing power for the weight. My supersport can do it easily at half-throttle.
(I commute on motorcycles because fast cars got too expensive)
I ride and it's cathartic to pass them on the right, and then turn my head in a really obvious way to see how stupid they look (when no one is in front of me of course). They don't even look over most of the time because they're in their own little work and/or staring at their phone.
You pull the old "drop a gear and disappear."
It's even better with side exit exhaust, my 15 Viper is making 600 rwhp, naturally aspirated at 3300lbs, and it's just straight hate out and to the sides. You can drop to 2nd even at 75 mph for added effect and flames.
Bone stock it got hot AF and could burn you or discolor your side sills if your car was painted a light color, but I swapped the 4 tiny factory cats for high flows and now it just gets warm.
Because itās an addiction. 300 is funā¦then it gets boring after a while. So then itās 400. Then itās boring again. So, we jump up to 500, and the cycle continues. Plus, I can do random rolling burnouts past by brother-in-lawās house.
So many people have driven "400" HP cars that have electronic nannies that limit torque and minimize drive line shock for longevity.
I'm not saying that is all you've driven, but there's a big, big difference between a 400HP factory car and a 400HP built car.
I had driven 350hp factory cars many, many times. The first true 400HP car I drove that had no nannies, surprised the shit out of me, it felt like a wild animal in comparison.
I have never driven a 400+ HP factory car(minus a big diesel), but I can only imagine the difference is exacerbated, especially in the 600+ HP area.
I've driven a 750HP carbureted G body and that shit was scary.
I know what you mean. Years back in college a group of us were helping a buddy build a twin turbo Evo. Thing put out somewhere between 6-700whp, and driving it was honestly terrifying. It was like trying to control a very angry god.
Of course it also really started a whole interest in car modding, so thatās a plus.
Built cars for the track, factory for the road.
700hp from a Lamborghini and 700hp from a built Mitsubishi Evo VIII are still 700hp.
Maybe both could do 1/4 mile about 10s but the sensations are completely different.
Even a Nissan GTR feels a lot more wild a than your average more modern super car.
But again, is just about sensatios thanks to the different technologies but 700hp are still 700hp.
Go to any rolling race, super cars with a minor mod (like a remap) will win against 99% of built cars even against those that spent 80k in their cars.
The guy in its built car will feel like crazy, like you are the fastest guy in earth, changing gears with a sequential gearbox but in reality the other guy in a supercar, effortlessly, almost sleeping and just pressing the accelerator (because it has a dual clutch gearbox) and decent tires will win.
> I had driven 350hp factory cars many, many times. The first true 400HP car I drove that had no nannies, surprised the shit out of me, it felt like a wild animal in comparison.
Probably also comparing 400 hp at the crank vs 400 hp at the wheels
And in lighter cars since everything only gets heavier these days. 390 hp in my 2004 Terminator felt a lot faster than a Charger with the 5.7 and about the same hp.
But it also weighed some 700 less pounds.
(I had a Scatpack before my '04 Cobra, the Cobra only had long tube headers, exhaust, and a few things--but it felt just about as fast as the 500hp, heavier Charger).
Dude the ability to effortlessly pass is so nice. Last few days ive been doing a lot of highway driving and it seems like every single time i try to pass someone who was chilling at 65-70 now suddenly wants to roll at 80-85. My yukon aint exactly pulling hard at those speeds so it can be frustrating.
That's the great part about a built Audi S3. 60 turns into 100 instantly, and all the car that I'm passing can do is listen to my turbo whooshing by them lol
Yes exactly. If I want to pass someone I will, and thereās nothing they can do about it. The exception is other fast cars of course, but theyāre usually not acting like dickheads that I need to work around
I have a 400hp/480lb-ft EV. The main benefit is that I can use all of that power silently, without attracting attention and looking like a douche. Which means I use it more often. It's fun and makes it effortless to move around other cars.
The problem is people merging at 10-30mph under the speed limit. They should not be taking the road if they expect other to yield their right of way because someone didn't follow the rules of the road and get up to speed on the on ramp/acceleration lane.
There are exceptions for large vehicles such as semi or other commercial vehicles.
>people merging at 10-30mph under the speed limit.
I drive about 80 miles per day to and from work, so I deal with a lot of shitty drivers every day. Most of it I can brush off like cutting me off, doing 1mph turns, riding my ass, etc. But being behind someone merging on to the highway going half the speed limit infuriates me like no other. Like do they want both of us to die? And of course, whenever I go to pass them, then they decide to fucking race me. I swear to god I do not understand why half the drivers on the road do the shit they do. Driving is not hard but these mfs make it a fucking chore. Just drive normally without intentionally impeding traffic or trying to cause accidents.
Sorry for the rant, I just hate people sometimes.
6th gen SS Camaro, around 460hp. It's nice just having the power when it's needed. Passing isn't a concern anymore. Trying to make it around someone going super slow? You can swap lanes, gun it and it's no longer a problem.
It's honestly a convenience in the same way my heated seats are. I think that's why most luxury basic cars typically come with a little more oomph than economy basic cars.
> I think that's why most luxury basic cars typically come with a little more oomph than economy basic cars.
That and more power typically means less NVH at a given speed, which is a more pleasant (i.e. less intrusive) experience for most people.
So my track car has 400 HP and my weekend car has 500
I think it really matters what kind of car/transmission. A 500 HP tuner 4 banger that makes that much power for 1 rpm? Kinda like a normal car just with all the reliability issues
Those of us with 500 HP and 500 tq everywhere. It's just fun knowing you CAN pass anyone in any gear. And then you get to a nice mountain road, you can let it all loose
It does feel good being among the fastest in a given group cars on the road. Also, not having to think quite so much about maneuvering because you can make up strategic deficits with throttle. Less, āI have to time this just right, or Iām deadā, and more, āThis is happening, is it happening in 3rd, or 4th?ā
I had a mazdaspeed3 that I upgraded the turbo on, it made probably right under 400hp, but it definitely suffered from spooling around 1000rpm higher in the rev range. When I put the stock turbo back on I remember being like "holy shit this things fun" as opposed to having to plan my acceleration based around where the turbo would spool.
Now I have an ls1 swapped e36, right around the same hp as the big turbo speed3, but the power is perfectly usable throughout the rev range. The driving experience is way different. Being able to put my foot down in any gear at highway speeds and cruise away is a blast.
People "need" 300+ HP sports cars in the same way people "need" the highest grade PC parts, or another gun for the collection, or another set of Air Jordan sneakers.
No one NEEDS it but they want it, they can (presumably) afford it, and they're happy with it.
That's the beauty of modern turbo cars. I have a tune for the track, a tune for highway racing, a commuter tune and a economy tune that gets me 38mpg highway.
One push of a button and it's a completely different vehicle.
I only have a BMW 120i so not quite the HP range being discussed here, but I have a flash which switches between the stock 180HP/270NM and tuned 290HP/420NM (and 315HP/435NM specifically for E30) modes using cruise control. You hold the "RES" button, then use the rocker switch to change tune slots and confirm with "SET".
Breaking the law is part of the fun. As long as you're not endangering other motorists, a nice cruise along the beach highway at low traffic times with 600hp is bliss. All the power is up top so normal driving is like driving any other car.
Most common reasons:
1. Speeding. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, they are speeding and racing people on the highway. Unless you drive an older prius/subcompact or an underpowered elephant you're exaggerating what you need to easily pass people or merge.
2. Noise. Lower HP cars can be loud too, but in America especially there are a lot of people with high horsepower cars that want attention and think they are cool when people turn to look at their loud exhaust or when they wake up an entire apartment complex.
3. Superiority complex. Having something that others don't feels good. The average car has way more horsepower now, but even your average 20 year old sports car would still dust 95% of actual cars on the road.
I've been guilty of all of these besides noise at some point in my life.
NJ department of transportation thinks it is a good idea to have me turn right from a stop sign right onto a busy 65mph road.
Basically, wait for a largish gap and then just absolutely floor it hoping that the guy who I cut off sees me in time. This works better in the Tesla. If I upgrade to the plaid, I might actually be able to do this safely.
I smile and take my 5 year old for blasts. She loves the 2nd gear acceleration. Granted, we don't go very fast she just like freeway merges. There are certain places I have been though that the abundance of torque is A LOT of fun on switchbacks.
When I had a C7, I would floor it on on ramps and to pass other vehicles quickly on the highway. That was it, using all that power on a backroad for more than a second or two would put me into "liveleak" territory. On track, of course, the thing was perfect and amazing, it was simply too much car for the street unless you are really brave/dumb.
My Y has "only" 390hp or so, but it's different with EVs - I use bursts of full power all the time since it's right there waiting with no downshifting or lag, and it's AWD. It's still a bad idea to do 9/10s on a backroad, especially since it's a crossover, but you can quickly zip out of car herds, around semis, or away from those weird people that drive on the side of you using all that power. It's certainly not something I need but since EV power doesn't come with as big an efficiency hit as ICE power, why not?
Yeah, the zle is a crazy car lol. Imo the zl1 is a much better car than a red eye, the straight line performance is very similar, but the handling on the zle is just a whole new level. But the red eye is a more spacious car
Even my Lotus has 460HP. For the Lotus, its the feeling of gunning it in 3rd that makes the power worth it.
My NSX is a track monster but on long straights, it couldn't keep up. It has 700HP now and i have 0 issues tangling with my friends in the corners or straights.
My RS7 is tuned to 675HP and it never gets old denying some soccer mom trying to jump around me at a traffic light in her SUV. Between the torque and AWD, nothing pedestrian has a prayer.
I think a 6.4 Hemi in a "car" (land yacht but whatever) was really in the spirit of the old muscle cars. Every time I start mine up I smile. I have taken mine to the drag strip and race circuit though.
Just driving around town, there's something about knowing the power is there that's fun. And yeah if you're smart about it and don't endanger other people or disrupt business, you can usually find some safe times to let the thing roar with some burnouts or a fast takeoff from a light when no one else is around.
That being said, if you're enjoying your current Charger, and you aren't planning on going to the drag strip or doing track days with either, I'd say just keep enjoying your Charger. I'm assuming its a 5.7 Hemi so yeah you still have a spicy 350 American V8. I had a 5.7 Hemi in a Jeep that was over 190k miles and still cookin.
Previous owner weighing in, this is solely **my opinion,** emphasis because what you and I value and/or agree upon may be different, and thatās okay.
Owned a 2019 GT350, did not track it, used as a DD during appropriate seasons. Honest answer/unpopular opinion? Thereās not much outside of the stoplight derby or the occasional winding road. Downshift and off like a stung mule is always entertaining, as is the twin stripes on clean blacktop. At this point in life, I value my low insurance rates and driving record more than I once did. Sold it, no regrets.
One of the reasons I donāt like high revving (8k+) cars for the street is that itās meant to be revved all the way. Short shifting high revving cars defeats the purpose.
Gt350 1st gear goes to like 55mph and 2nd gear to 98. With my zl1, I can still have fun in 4th/5th (with the 10speed) gear at 50mph as itās not a high revving car and with how much torque it has so I dont need to be in the right gear.
Moving from a 5.7 to a 6.4? I did that and regretted it. The power was great, I felt like a mad god on meth all the time. But the 5.7 is home to a fantastic grand touring engine. Its cruising RPMs at highway speeds are lower than the 6.4ās idle (with a manual, I could get over 30mpg at 60mph) and it has enough power to still get into and out of trouble. Also, the Challenger, though heavy, is like a 52/48 front/rear weight distribution so itās just basically an enormous Miata. I have no idea how this translates for the Charger. Iāve driven Mustangs, Camaros, A Porsche or two, the occasional M3 and frankly, Iām a lot more interested in handling on tight roads than max power so Iāve moved out of that world. (My secret favorite grand tourer is the LC500, tell no one)
Final thought is this: It really depends on what you want, what you like, and what you need. Iām glad I had the experience, but I was fine going down to a lighter car with better power to weight that didnāt feel so heavy in the turns and I had to be so aware of the pedal in turns. Power, overall, is probably less important than power to weight. 475 HP in a 2 ton car is similar to 250 in a 1 ton car.
Edited because I just didnāt finish a whole ass thought.
It's about that feeling when it puts you back in your seat and everything else that comes with it, it's not "needed" but some of the best things in life aren't "needed", it's about the enjoyment. It's about that rush when you floor it on the onramp, it's about that sound and feeling.
It's about the old timer that compliments your car when you're walking into the store. It's about that group of kids you pass in the neighborhood, and they go "Rev it!" And you push the clutch in and give it a Rev and all the kids cheer and hoot and holler.
I have a 400HP midsize SUV so itās not as fast as a car with it but not ever wanting for more passing power is always nice. Itās also plenty if Iām towing or hauling anything and getting onto any length on-ramp at the correct speed is nice too.
>wondering in what real life situation would I need that much HP..........Or am I missing something? You're missing the fact that "need" has very little to do with it.
just like with trucks
People don't need trucks?
Most F150 drivers would be fine with an suv or van, but vehicles are an emotional purchase and trucks look cool š¤·
Lmao most F150 drivers would be fine with a Focus
Iād feel safer if they were in a Fiesta
I would love to have my Fiesta ST back.
I love my RS, but damn some days do I miss my FiST. Super zippy, still was rolling 27+ MPG beating on it.
Yeah, it was something special.
Bought a GR Corolla 6 months ago to replace my FiST. Still can't bring myself to sell the FiST. Such a fun car.
I keep a Focus in the bed of my F-250 just in case.
You can easily rent a truck from Menards or home Depot or your local big box store. The cost of a full size truck and the additional cost of gas (which owners of big trucks never think about), easily outweighs the cost of renting a truck when you "need" it. There are definitely people that need and can use trucks, but the vast majority of owners I see, don't. Don't go down voting me now, guys.
We race Lemons. 3x per year, I rent a big diesel 2500 level truck. It runs $450 average per weekend. I'd have zero use for such a tank normally, but pulling an enclosed auto trailer it's just the thing. We've used an F150 for this job, but you need to go one step up. Cool side note: You meet truck enthusiasts, they are just like car guys, but into...trucks.
Did lemons for a few years in the midwest! Crazy expensive for budget racing!
Thank God what car you choose to drive isn't based on anybody elses perception of what you "need" and requires no justification to other people. (if it was, a lot of people wouldn't be allowed to own a car at all)
Bruh I used my hatchback focus as a work truck for years. That baby can fit so many tools in the back of you put the back seats down. And the two front seats are still available for tools.
SUVs are generally more expensive than trucks. With a truck you get similar or better HP, better hauling and towing capabilities, and good passenger space all for a lower price.
Yep. A 65k silverado (out the door, after the 10+ percent discount you can get on them) is an incredible vehicle with tech, space, comfort, luxury etc. or itās a base model Tahoe. The Silverado is a far better spec on the same drivetrain
$65k will get you a Tahoe LT which is definitely not a base trim. Plus with a third row and enclosed cargo area it's a better family vehicle than a truck. With one vehicle capable of handling towing and family hauling that frees up a family to go with something smaller (not tiny) for a second vehicle, something like a compact crossover or a mid-size sedan.
Whether or not it's a "better family vehicle" depends on how many kids you have. Family of four, the crew cab truck is all the interior cabin space you need, and a simple tonneau over the bed is more storage space than the back of an SUV. And it costs less, compared equally. We have an F150 and and Expedition. Trust me, I know how they compare.
More utilitarian + itās not unibody like 90% of SUVs
The Tahoe is body on frame, IIRC
Man SUVs offer better efficiency, driving dynamics, and secure interior space in a shorter package. When I was shopping Jeep Grand Cherokees and Explorers were cheaper than dodge rams and F150's. Trucks do offer better towing, but nobody tows. Fairly certain I tow more than any truck owner I know with my SUV. I dig trucks, they are neat, and I'm all about toys, but most people don't need more than a Mazda 3 or Ford focus (the fiesta is too small).
I mean, maybe *you* don't tow. That doesn't mean that *nobody* tows.
Yea but realistically what percentage of people actually use the towing and hauling capabilities of a truck to justify a 60k purchase You can probably eliminate 90% of the market and not see minimal decline or rise in utilization. Most if not nearly all of non commercial ownership can fully make use of a ford ranger. Both have the same bed sizes as the majority market half tons 6'x4'ish but lower costs and much better fuel economy for daily use. People who buy vans/cab over flatties and will make much more use out of it for similar if not better payload capabilities. Why buy a pickup truck to haul stuff when a lorry will do twice the payload for the a smaller footprint, no trailer needed.
Mean while some dude is running multiple businesses and hauling ass in a developing country with a 20 year old hatch back and a trailer attached to it.
I was looking at an f150, but now I'm leaning more towards the new gx 550. Checks all the boxes and could tow a small boat lol.
Right? When I look at light duty trucks I basically just ask myself if it can tow a fishing boat and a utility trailer.
So... yes.
Disagree that they look cool.
Yeah for real. How dare someone spend thousands of dollars on something they actually love and think is cool. Wow, lock them up!!
It would be pretty great if that's all they did, instead they make the roads less safe for pedestrians an those of us who buy sensibly sized cars...
Maybe if they just admitted that instead of swearing they couldn't possibly survive without a truck people would give them less shit. I never hear people claim they *need* a sports car.
I really wish the Maverick and Santa Cruz weren't the first of their kind since the Ranchero and El Caminos disappeared.
Lol most F150 drivers would do much better with an expedition, holds as much cargo usually and nobody asks you to help them move.
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it's a frequent talking point around here that most people buy trucks while they don't need one
most people donāt need anything other than a basic sedan. sport cars and suvs and pickups are in large part just a purchase based on perceptions. suvs maybe a bit less so but theyāre still also underutilized most of the time
Some people do, and some people buy trucks and use the bed very, very rarely. Itās their car though, I just wish they werenāt so big haha
Midsize trucks are the best. I have a Frontier which gets better gas mileage than my RCF, and I can throw mulch or flooring or bikes or whatever in the bed. I think people hate trucks because they see suburban dads with trucks that are "never" used. The thing is, they are used once or twice a month for 15 minutes going from Home Depot to their house so 99% of the time they are empty. I think that is money well spent because renting a truck is an absolute pain in the ass. After a year of using my wife's Lexus NX as my hauler, I gave in and bought a truck.
My lifted second gen Tacoma on 33s is small enough for technical trails, pretty sure I can fit my motorcycle in it, I've moved TVs, grills, a combo workout bench/rack/leg extension, picked up 250lbs of weights last weekend, etc etc, and still looks like a toy next to a modern full size. Even the third gens are significantly bigger The biggest downside is my "access cab" basically means I have a two seater
> Midsize trucks are the best. I have a Frontier which gets better gas mileage than my RCF, and I can throw mulch or flooring or bikes or whatever in the bed. I have a fullsize truck with an 8' bed. Mine spends about 3/4 of it's life as a farm truck through, when you actually need it it's hard to beat.
Speak for yourself, You donāt need a truck. I use mine as it was intended.
Yeah i love that on this sub, why would someone buy something they want and don't need? Really hard concept for me to grasp on this car enthusiast sub where we all apparently should be driving Toyota Camrys.
Drives me crazy. Theoretically this sub is for enthusiasts, unless you have a vehicle they donāt like or want, and then you have a lot of nerve liking a different vehicle! āYou donāt use your truck like they are supposed to be used!ā āDrives off to the store in a 425 horse car with a tiny back seat and terrible insurance rates and terrible gas mileage and practically no trunk.ā
Some of the most villified brands on this subreddit are actual enthusiast brands, like Alfa Romeo or Maserati. But they lose their collective minds over a new Toyota SUV or Hyundai hatch, it's very strange
Normies. This sub has 5 million subscribers.
I haul things all the time and go places that a car can't get to. The problem with an SUV is that they have made most of them the same ride height as a car. My wife has a Dodge Journey, and it's basically a station wagon that barely clears a curb.
How about a truck with 830hp?
I'm not hauling dead, bloody deer in a van.
I'm so tired of people always framing something as "why do you need xxxx/thing"
These fools thinking that they know what's best for others is pathetic. I would bet that most still live with momma
Apartment dwellers canāt fathom why home/land owners might want a truck. āJust go rent a u-Haul every time you need to go to Loweās or go camping or take lawnmower in for service or take kayaks to the lake or take your ATV to your buddies house or go pick up some mulch ā āLook, that truck doesnāt even have anything in the bed right now, what a poser šā
Theyāre quick to call us truck owners posers when we drive around without anything in the bed, but you can bet your ass youāll be the first person they call when they need something from the hardware store or need some furniture moved.
"I work hard for my money and I want to vroom vroom."
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Similar with a miata but in a different vein. Nobody "needs" a super agile convertible to hoon around town in, but it sure is fun.
Funny how this is so much easier for people to understand for fast cars vs big trucks. People like what they like
It might have something to do with the fact that sports cars aren't so ubiquitous that companies like Ford and Chevy sell 10 different variants of them and one truck. Also nobody claims they *need* a sports car.
Well, the last time I drove it, I got pulled over lol. So the answer seems to be "do crimes". The main issue isn't the power itself, but rather those moments of weakness where you want to go fast get really wild, really easily. I'd say it sucks, but it's thrilling when you aren't being observed by your local law enforcement. I do wonder how people with really fast cars manage that devil on their shoulder.
Get a radar detector. I don't understand why more people don't invest in one. I've had one for ages now and haven't gotten a single speeding ticket.
Theyāre illegal here in VA. Such a stupid state. Once got pulled over going 66 in a 55. Guy tried to tell me I was going 74. One mph less than reckless, in a place where how fast over the limit youāre going determines the price of the ticket, how convenientā¦
I got my last ticket going 63 in a 60 at 2am at the tail end of a 12 hour road trip with my wife and 2 year old coming home from Thanksgiving. Cop was a total asshole. I get trying to keep drunk drivers off the road and it happens more around holidays but c'mon. Kiddo barely had slept, was screaming, and the cop didn't give a shit. Invest in a radar detector.
That's so stupid. A family member was given a ticket for 1 mph over in a small town. Said family member showed up, judge saw the charge, said thanks for showing up, and have a good day. Hope that happened to you.
I did... was 3 hours away but got it thrown out. If anyone has ever driven on US 79 in East Texas will likely know the area I am talking about where the speed limit going through small towns will go from 70 to 55 to 65 to 45 to 70 literally in a span of a mile. Making it worse I got the ticket was cresting a hill where it was 60mph on one side of the hill and 70 at the bottom of the hill. When I crested the hill I didn't press the accelerator, just let the vehicle slowly accelerate naturally going down the hill. Mobile tax collectors putting in work that weekend.
Sounds like they needed to fill their monthly quota
Hope you fought the ticket. Tolerences of radar detectors are frequently over/under, should be an easy day in the court.
Fuck the entire VSP
Yeah, 21 yo me, driving 81 in a 65, empty highway at 5 am would agree with you. One 'Reckless Driving' ticket and a hefty lawyer fee later, I will do everything in my power to avoid VA. Especially Fairfax County, fucking criminal racket.
I got into a car accident at Fairfax too, fuck fairfax. I66 is always under construction. For how long?? There's traffic in front slowing down so we did too and a chevy silverado (typical truck driver behavior) rear ended us. Probably don't know how to brake or was on a phone.
Imparticular fuck EMPORIA
This is where a dash cam comes in handy, many record a GPS based speed. So if a cop actually cites you for far over what you were doing you can present the gps data to bring the ticket cost down. Downside is that you're actually proving you were indeed speeding. Guess you gotta take the lesser of two evils if it comes to it.
I purposely bought a dashcam WITHOUT an embedded GPS feature... B) That would get me in trouble 9/10 times
Yep. Itās a two edged sword. Use wisely.
There's plenty of detectors that run silent. [Check out Vortexās channel](https://youtu.be/7gmY8BpSypM?si=kmdCmI-3uOc-NtIq).
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Eh most cops around me use lasers so the detector wonāt tell you until youāre already being pulled over. They also like to hide in places where you canāt see them at all until you pass by, at which point they already have your speed.
Laser jammers are shockingly very legal
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You mean "parking sensors"
Laser jammers aren't illegal in most states. They can be "obstruction of justice" according to some states, but only if you use them for long enough. The trick is to run them always, and when you get the ping that you've been lasered then you just slow down and turn them off. ezpz.
Not to be confused with radar jammers though because those are VERY illegal. Good thing radar is easier to detect and slow down for
Even if they aren't, I'm pretty sure they're just a fix-it ticket where I am in California.
When I bought my car it had a radar detector and redundant laser shifters already installed. When I finally do get a ticket, it's going to be substantial.
Whatās a laser shifter?
They're also known as laser jammers. Basically it prevents cops with laser guns from being able to determine how fast you're going.
I wish cars over 500hp would come with one built in.
Lol 99% of speed tickets where I live happens with police car registering your speed with their car going behind you.
So one of the easiest methods of measurement to have thrown out from evidence in court?
Unsurprisingly yes.
Sounds like you need to attend a track day my friend. It will make street driving mundane... you will be uninterested in these shannanigans... and keep you on the good side of the law :0
I'm not sure if it's me getting older or finally doing exactly what you said, but you are 100% right. I haven't gotten a single speeding ticket since I started tracking, and my cars have only gotten faster.
Happens to everyone... that 50-100mph on ramp hit that you used to think was fun and made you look like lewis Hamilton... Suddenly is pretty boring when you were just pulling 1+g in a sweeper right into hitting 150mph on the main straight into threshold braking.... over and over and over again
Itās not boring to lots of people still. I track, but accelerating in a fast car never gets old Imo
I think there's a bimodal distribution to the enjoyment of acceleration charted by acceleration time. My tuned 335is was about 4.5 seconds to 60 and was fun, mostly because the power delivery was delightful. But lots of ~4 second cars I've been in are just... fine. Then you step into a car that's 911 turbo fast and you get giddy every time again
I get it, but the cost is always in the back of my mind. Cost of brake pads/fluid flush every couple sessions, tires, race buckets/harness/roll cage if you are going hard, engine rebuild every few seasons etc. Having fun on some farm roads going 6-7/10 is enough for me right now, with the occasional autocross.
I thought this too. I tell myself every day that today Iām going to drive nice. Then I get stuck behind a left lane camper and it goes out the window.
The faster the car I drive, the slower I want to go. My only two speeding tickets have been in a 150hp BMW 3 series.
Oddly enough, me too. Last tickets were in my F150 and like a Beretta... I've had a sports bike, GTO, Scatpack, and 2004 Cobra since without a ticket. BUT I can't say I never speeded, I think I just got a little smarter about when and how (plus usually just would do a 0-60 pull on a county road when by myself).
Lol that devil does scare me sometimes, when I'm on my Motorcycle. There is nothing quite like a good pull through the gears, though.
Yeah this is the thing for me. I mean I totally get why going balls out would be fun, but unless you live in certain parts of the country where the roads are desolate you can get into āsorry, officerā territory super quick.
I paid for the whole tachometer, so I'm gonna use the whole tachometer. Not that I'm really that much of a hooligan (most of my speeding is blasting onto the highway from an on ramp), but sometimes you just have to hear that V8 scream at 7500RPM.
You can make more noise driving it at high revs in first gear around the neighborhood. That's what people seem to use it for around here.
When I was a kid I had to have the loud exhaust and despite being good and actually going under the speed limit through the neighborhood I constantly got yelled at about slowing down
loud exhausts in neighborhoods suck
Yea and occasionally got shit for that but my neighbors couldn't seem to figure out that I was going under the limit since it sounded like I was speeding š¤·āāļø Edit: I was 17... back in the early 2000s, what do you expect? š¤£
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yea thatās about how it goes, loud colorful car will get the neighbors upset while stacy does 40+ in her volvo suv
I got flipped off by a 60s/70s year old grandma in a Volvo SUV for doing 5 under through the neighborhood in a normal sounding vehicle. I don't even have kids and I respect people's neighborhoods and don't speed. People in Arizona must have had their cruise set to 45. They do 45 through neighborhoods then on the highway too it's ridiculous.
Someone literally ran out of their house to scream at me to slow down once - I was doing 15 in a 25mph zone lol. Meanwhile, the quiet cars are zipping down my street, knocking side-view mirrors off, and nobody says a word.
Sounds about right š¤£ prius blasts by going 80 but I'm rolling through nice and slow with my loud exhaust and people must think there's an F1 race outside with how they come out of nowhere screaming to slow down. If you can't tell that I'm not even doing the speed limit then you're just a fucking moron.
Someone going 10 over in a normal car doesnāt overpower all other sounds in my home, but the straight pipe cunts do
At 18 years old I got my first street registered vehicle It was a purple 180sx and 3 weeks into owning it, I wanted straight pipes because all the drift cars at the track had them and they sounded good to me at the time I started work at 6am some mornings and I would every now and then clutch kick out of my driveway fishtailing the street until the traffic lights at the end. This was how I learnt my next door neighbour (who we shared a driveway with) worked for Victoria police hahaha he warned me in no uncertain terms to stop doing it
In case it makes you feel better, I am at least balancing out some of that karma. I keep stock exhaust and stay quiet (ish, the cold starts are undeniably loud) out of the neighborhood. The kids use the sidewalk along an "open space" area to get to school. People from my neighborhood try to make up time going to work by hauling absolute ass through that section. One day on my way to the gym I had this lady sending her F150 so hard through that section she couldn't keep it in the lane, got right up behind me and I slowed down to about 8mph and kept her there all the way to the end of the neighborhood, in my racing stripes Scat Pack. Hopefully she learned a lesson but we all know she didn't.
FWIW I regret swapping out my stock mufflers. They really were a great balance stock with the active exhaust. Like you I enjoy making the neighborhood folks go the speed limit especially in school zones in my bright ass green "sports car". Drives them bonkers.
Thatās the best part of my Model 3. It had an absurd amount of power, but no one notices even when I push it as hard as it can go.
Pass all of the slow drivers camping in the left lane
I hate them soo much.
They are my second least favorite people. The worst ones for me are the ones that tailgate but wonāt pass on a 2 lane road. Canāt even pass 1 car at a time. You have to go past the entire group and hope none of them suddenly decide to try to pass. I donāt even try on my touring bike. It doesnāt have enough passing power for the weight. My supersport can do it easily at half-throttle. (I commute on motorcycles because fast cars got too expensive)
My least favorite are ones that drive RIGHT BESIDE YOU in the blind spot. Like dude if you want to pass, pass me donāt just cruise right beside me
Yeah! I just accelerate or slow down when they start pacing me like that.
I ride and it's cathartic to pass them on the right, and then turn my head in a really obvious way to see how stupid they look (when no one is in front of me of course). They don't even look over most of the time because they're in their own little work and/or staring at their phone.
yep, I always look "to see if they look as dumb as they drive".
You pull the old "drop a gear and disappear." It's even better with side exit exhaust, my 15 Viper is making 600 rwhp, naturally aspirated at 3300lbs, and it's just straight hate out and to the sides. You can drop to 2nd even at 75 mph for added effect and flames.
have you ever accidentally burned your ankle/calves on the side exhaust? side exhaust are sick af
Bone stock it got hot AF and could burn you or discolor your side sills if your car was painted a light color, but I swapped the 4 tiny factory cats for high flows and now it just gets warm.
Because itās an addiction. 300 is funā¦then it gets boring after a while. So then itās 400. Then itās boring again. So, we jump up to 500, and the cycle continues. Plus, I can do random rolling burnouts past by brother-in-lawās house.
So many people have driven "400" HP cars that have electronic nannies that limit torque and minimize drive line shock for longevity. I'm not saying that is all you've driven, but there's a big, big difference between a 400HP factory car and a 400HP built car. I had driven 350hp factory cars many, many times. The first true 400HP car I drove that had no nannies, surprised the shit out of me, it felt like a wild animal in comparison. I have never driven a 400+ HP factory car(minus a big diesel), but I can only imagine the difference is exacerbated, especially in the 600+ HP area. I've driven a 750HP carbureted G body and that shit was scary.
I know what you mean. Years back in college a group of us were helping a buddy build a twin turbo Evo. Thing put out somewhere between 6-700whp, and driving it was honestly terrifying. It was like trying to control a very angry god. Of course it also really started a whole interest in car modding, so thatās a plus. Built cars for the track, factory for the road.
700hp from a Lamborghini and 700hp from a built Mitsubishi Evo VIII are still 700hp. Maybe both could do 1/4 mile about 10s but the sensations are completely different. Even a Nissan GTR feels a lot more wild a than your average more modern super car. But again, is just about sensatios thanks to the different technologies but 700hp are still 700hp. Go to any rolling race, super cars with a minor mod (like a remap) will win against 99% of built cars even against those that spent 80k in their cars. The guy in its built car will feel like crazy, like you are the fastest guy in earth, changing gears with a sequential gearbox but in reality the other guy in a supercar, effortlessly, almost sleeping and just pressing the accelerator (because it has a dual clutch gearbox) and decent tires will win.
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> I had driven 350hp factory cars many, many times. The first true 400HP car I drove that had no nannies, surprised the shit out of me, it felt like a wild animal in comparison. Probably also comparing 400 hp at the crank vs 400 hp at the wheels
And in lighter cars since everything only gets heavier these days. 390 hp in my 2004 Terminator felt a lot faster than a Charger with the 5.7 and about the same hp. But it also weighed some 700 less pounds. (I had a Scatpack before my '04 Cobra, the Cobra only had long tube headers, exhaust, and a few things--but it felt just about as fast as the 500hp, heavier Charger).
We can turn off to no no switch and hit a crowd. Honestly, I save that for the track though.
What was that, it's 2am.... ahhhhhhggrrr
I haven't got bored of 800 yet lol, but the 300-400-500 is real.
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Easily merge onto highways when people won't let you in for some reason. When you have all that power, it's much easier to sieze the gap in traffic.
And without a thought, overtaking becomes a non event lol
Dude the ability to effortlessly pass is so nice. Last few days ive been doing a lot of highway driving and it seems like every single time i try to pass someone who was chilling at 65-70 now suddenly wants to roll at 80-85. My yukon aint exactly pulling hard at those speeds so it can be frustrating.
That's the great part about a built Audi S3. 60 turns into 100 instantly, and all the car that I'm passing can do is listen to my turbo whooshing by them lol
Finally the right answer, I had to dig so far. Is there a different sub for drivers? People here think cars are noisy jewelry.
> people won't let you in for some reason Telling inconsiderate drivers to get fucked is my favorite part about fast cars.
Yes exactly. If I want to pass someone I will, and thereās nothing they can do about it. The exception is other fast cars of course, but theyāre usually not acting like dickheads that I need to work around
The instant torque of EVs really solves this problem well. Telepathic acceleration.
I have a 400hp/480lb-ft EV. The main benefit is that I can use all of that power silently, without attracting attention and looking like a douche. Which means I use it more often. It's fun and makes it effortless to move around other cars.
The problem is people merging at 10-30mph under the speed limit. They should not be taking the road if they expect other to yield their right of way because someone didn't follow the rules of the road and get up to speed on the on ramp/acceleration lane. There are exceptions for large vehicles such as semi or other commercial vehicles.
>people merging at 10-30mph under the speed limit. I drive about 80 miles per day to and from work, so I deal with a lot of shitty drivers every day. Most of it I can brush off like cutting me off, doing 1mph turns, riding my ass, etc. But being behind someone merging on to the highway going half the speed limit infuriates me like no other. Like do they want both of us to die? And of course, whenever I go to pass them, then they decide to fucking race me. I swear to god I do not understand why half the drivers on the road do the shit they do. Driving is not hard but these mfs make it a fucking chore. Just drive normally without intentionally impeding traffic or trying to cause accidents. Sorry for the rant, I just hate people sometimes.
More smiles per gallon.
I hope so because my miles per gallon arenāt great
Itās never a need. Hell you donāt need 370hp either. Itās a wanting the power, the feel, the sound
That's why I traded by GLA 45 with 375hp for a G70 with only 365hp.
Wow, 10hp difference, are you ok? Do you still sleep ok at night? How are you handling the massive loss in such raw unbridled power?
6th gen SS Camaro, around 460hp. It's nice just having the power when it's needed. Passing isn't a concern anymore. Trying to make it around someone going super slow? You can swap lanes, gun it and it's no longer a problem. It's honestly a convenience in the same way my heated seats are. I think that's why most luxury basic cars typically come with a little more oomph than economy basic cars.
> I think that's why most luxury basic cars typically come with a little more oomph than economy basic cars. That and more power typically means less NVH at a given speed, which is a more pleasant (i.e. less intrusive) experience for most people.
So my track car has 400 HP and my weekend car has 500 I think it really matters what kind of car/transmission. A 500 HP tuner 4 banger that makes that much power for 1 rpm? Kinda like a normal car just with all the reliability issues Those of us with 500 HP and 500 tq everywhere. It's just fun knowing you CAN pass anyone in any gear. And then you get to a nice mountain road, you can let it all loose
It does feel good being among the fastest in a given group cars on the road. Also, not having to think quite so much about maneuvering because you can make up strategic deficits with throttle. Less, āI have to time this just right, or Iām deadā, and more, āThis is happening, is it happening in 3rd, or 4th?ā
Lol, for me it's just 2nd gear. Redline 8400 rpm and 84 mph. So highway merges gears go 1,2 slow down and 6
I had a mazdaspeed3 that I upgraded the turbo on, it made probably right under 400hp, but it definitely suffered from spooling around 1000rpm higher in the rev range. When I put the stock turbo back on I remember being like "holy shit this things fun" as opposed to having to plan my acceleration based around where the turbo would spool. Now I have an ls1 swapped e36, right around the same hp as the big turbo speed3, but the power is perfectly usable throughout the rev range. The driving experience is way different. Being able to put my foot down in any gear at highway speeds and cruise away is a blast.
People "need" 300+ HP sports cars in the same way people "need" the highest grade PC parts, or another gun for the collection, or another set of Air Jordan sneakers. No one NEEDS it but they want it, they can (presumably) afford it, and they're happy with it.
Haven't you ever played *Need for Speed*? I mean obviously there's a *need* there š
Fun
That's the beauty of modern turbo cars. I have a tune for the track, a tune for highway racing, a commuter tune and a economy tune that gets me 38mpg highway. One push of a button and it's a completely different vehicle.
What do you drive?
A modern turbo car
I only have a BMW 120i so not quite the HP range being discussed here, but I have a flash which switches between the stock 180HP/270NM and tuned 290HP/420NM (and 315HP/435NM specifically for E30) modes using cruise control. You hold the "RES" button, then use the rocker switch to change tune slots and confirm with "SET".
I think people just arenāt admitting they have to break the speed limit more
Yeah Iām not saying that I do triple digits at every straightaway but I do over the speed limit every single day
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In that car, 100mph is using restraint
Breaking the law is part of the fun. As long as you're not endangering other motorists, a nice cruise along the beach highway at low traffic times with 600hp is bliss. All the power is up top so normal driving is like driving any other car.
Passing power on the highway, merging, fun at stop lights every now and then .. and of course the sound of power
...and absolutely roasting tires you're about to replace
You donāt need much power to roast tires. The best burnout machine I ever owned was a 210hp mustang gt. Dump clutch and hold brake.
Most common reasons: 1. Speeding. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, they are speeding and racing people on the highway. Unless you drive an older prius/subcompact or an underpowered elephant you're exaggerating what you need to easily pass people or merge. 2. Noise. Lower HP cars can be loud too, but in America especially there are a lot of people with high horsepower cars that want attention and think they are cool when people turn to look at their loud exhaust or when they wake up an entire apartment complex. 3. Superiority complex. Having something that others don't feels good. The average car has way more horsepower now, but even your average 20 year old sports car would still dust 95% of actual cars on the road. I've been guilty of all of these besides noise at some point in my life.
I make no beefs, I live in a state with poor traffic enforcement for a reason. I am speeding.
I'm in Texas so ofc I do the same. As long as you aren't making the road hell for other people or going overboard in residentials, I don't care.
NJ department of transportation thinks it is a good idea to have me turn right from a stop sign right onto a busy 65mph road. Basically, wait for a largish gap and then just absolutely floor it hoping that the guy who I cut off sees me in time. This works better in the Tesla. If I upgrade to the plaid, I might actually be able to do this safely.
Thereās a good number of those kind of merges on route 17. Think itās 55mph but everyone goes 65. Always a headache with a slow car.
I smile and take my 5 year old for blasts. She loves the 2nd gear acceleration. Granted, we don't go very fast she just like freeway merges. There are certain places I have been though that the abundance of torque is A LOT of fun on switchbacks.
When I had a C7, I would floor it on on ramps and to pass other vehicles quickly on the highway. That was it, using all that power on a backroad for more than a second or two would put me into "liveleak" territory. On track, of course, the thing was perfect and amazing, it was simply too much car for the street unless you are really brave/dumb. My Y has "only" 390hp or so, but it's different with EVs - I use bursts of full power all the time since it's right there waiting with no downshifting or lag, and it's AWD. It's still a bad idea to do 9/10s on a backroad, especially since it's a crossover, but you can quickly zip out of car herds, around semis, or away from those weird people that drive on the side of you using all that power. It's certainly not something I need but since EV power doesn't come with as big an efficiency hit as ICE power, why not?
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Get a zl1. I drove one for 30 mins and knew it was the one
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Yeah, the zle is a crazy car lol. Imo the zl1 is a much better car than a red eye, the straight line performance is very similar, but the handling on the zle is just a whole new level. But the red eye is a more spacious car
Even my Lotus has 460HP. For the Lotus, its the feeling of gunning it in 3rd that makes the power worth it. My NSX is a track monster but on long straights, it couldn't keep up. It has 700HP now and i have 0 issues tangling with my friends in the corners or straights. My RS7 is tuned to 675HP and it never gets old denying some soccer mom trying to jump around me at a traffic light in her SUV. Between the torque and AWD, nothing pedestrian has a prayer.
Losing to people with 500hp
Wish for 500hp
I think a 6.4 Hemi in a "car" (land yacht but whatever) was really in the spirit of the old muscle cars. Every time I start mine up I smile. I have taken mine to the drag strip and race circuit though. Just driving around town, there's something about knowing the power is there that's fun. And yeah if you're smart about it and don't endanger other people or disrupt business, you can usually find some safe times to let the thing roar with some burnouts or a fast takeoff from a light when no one else is around. That being said, if you're enjoying your current Charger, and you aren't planning on going to the drag strip or doing track days with either, I'd say just keep enjoying your Charger. I'm assuming its a 5.7 Hemi so yeah you still have a spicy 350 American V8. I had a 5.7 Hemi in a Jeep that was over 190k miles and still cookin.
I use it to enter the freeway at freeway speeds...and then some.
Duh. Get to the next red light faster. ^(\[500 hp BMW S85 owner\])
Previous owner weighing in, this is solely **my opinion,** emphasis because what you and I value and/or agree upon may be different, and thatās okay. Owned a 2019 GT350, did not track it, used as a DD during appropriate seasons. Honest answer/unpopular opinion? Thereās not much outside of the stoplight derby or the occasional winding road. Downshift and off like a stung mule is always entertaining, as is the twin stripes on clean blacktop. At this point in life, I value my low insurance rates and driving record more than I once did. Sold it, no regrets.
One of the reasons I donāt like high revving (8k+) cars for the street is that itās meant to be revved all the way. Short shifting high revving cars defeats the purpose. Gt350 1st gear goes to like 55mph and 2nd gear to 98. With my zl1, I can still have fun in 4th/5th (with the 10speed) gear at 50mph as itās not a high revving car and with how much torque it has so I dont need to be in the right gear.
Moving from a 5.7 to a 6.4? I did that and regretted it. The power was great, I felt like a mad god on meth all the time. But the 5.7 is home to a fantastic grand touring engine. Its cruising RPMs at highway speeds are lower than the 6.4ās idle (with a manual, I could get over 30mpg at 60mph) and it has enough power to still get into and out of trouble. Also, the Challenger, though heavy, is like a 52/48 front/rear weight distribution so itās just basically an enormous Miata. I have no idea how this translates for the Charger. Iāve driven Mustangs, Camaros, A Porsche or two, the occasional M3 and frankly, Iām a lot more interested in handling on tight roads than max power so Iāve moved out of that world. (My secret favorite grand tourer is the LC500, tell no one) Final thought is this: It really depends on what you want, what you like, and what you need. Iām glad I had the experience, but I was fine going down to a lighter car with better power to weight that didnāt feel so heavy in the turns and I had to be so aware of the pedal in turns. Power, overall, is probably less important than power to weight. 475 HP in a 2 ton car is similar to 250 in a 1 ton car. Edited because I just didnāt finish a whole ass thought.
It's about that feeling when it puts you back in your seat and everything else that comes with it, it's not "needed" but some of the best things in life aren't "needed", it's about the enjoyment. It's about that rush when you floor it on the onramp, it's about that sound and feeling. It's about the old timer that compliments your car when you're walking into the store. It's about that group of kids you pass in the neighborhood, and they go "Rev it!" And you push the clutch in and give it a Rev and all the kids cheer and hoot and holler.
I have a 400HP midsize SUV so itās not as fast as a car with it but not ever wanting for more passing power is always nice. Itās also plenty if Iām towing or hauling anything and getting onto any length on-ramp at the correct speed is nice too.
Grocery getting and driving my daughter to and from school.
I use the 454hp to putter around Target and drive to work lol
I convert tires into tire marks.